Reddit Leatherman Engineer Question Period.

[Chako]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Leatherman/comments/ocjaw4/hi_were_engineers_at_leatherman_tools_ask_us/

I am in the process of reading the comments, but thought those of you who are curious might want to have a look yourself. 

[Chako]

Just finished reading the reddit. Interesting bits of information could be gleamed. this website even made it into the comments somehow...although it was a bit derisive.

[Poncho65]

I made a Reddit account just to comment on that particular post

If they read anything here it would amaze me because they never seem to want to engage with the single biggest group of MT (users, collectors and enthusiasts) in the world 

I guess they just want info and feedback without giving us anything info wise in return

They did come here once with a link to one of there Reddit Q&As a couple years ago but I would (and everyone else here probably) rather they come here and have a Q&A I know that timelines on a forum work differently than other platforms but it could be worked out 

[Chako]

I keep emailing Leatherman requesting factual information...and have done that once again a few days ago asking for release and retirement dates on their one piece tools. I hope they answer this time. I have my fingers crossed. They haven't been very forthcoming with factual information in the past.

I just asked them to consider publishing an official Leatherman book to set their story straight. Who knows, but my hopes are not very high. I have a love hate relationship with the company. I collect Leatherman because of my father...and yet, they make it very hard for non American's to collect their tools. I love their products...no so much their business methodology post 2015.

[Syncop8r]

Thanks for posting, that was interesting. Good to see they have a sense of humour. Some mentions of    and Zapwizard.

From reading some of the questions and their answers... I wonder if the Surge and Crunch are going to get together and make a baby...

[Chako]

Now that would be something I would buy. Oh wait, I am doomed anyways. 

[bobartig]

If they read anything here it would amaze me because they never seem to want to engage with the single biggest group of MT (users, collectors and enthusiasts) in the world 

In your mind, you need to disaggregate "collectors and enthusiasts" with the actual market for multitools. Collectors and enthusiasts make up probably 1/50,000 of their total market. Even if they buy 100x the regular amount of tools, that's  0.2% of their market. It would make no sense to cater heavily to that sector (although they do from time to time with special editions and highly collectible variants like the Damascus Charge). They aren't building highly specialized tools targeted towards a very particular customer - they are making generally useful tools for everyone.

To give an example, knife aficionados tend to gripe about the lockup percentage on the Skeletool quite a bit. However, 99.999% of customers will never notice or care. So, in their list of engineering priorities, which includes things like reducing tool component counts to reduce points of failure, improving strength and durability metrics, making production and repair processes cheaper, where should fine-tuning the blade lockup on the Skeletool rank? The correct answer is that it should never, ever, make the list because the the first listed metrics will help 99% of Skeletool owners, and spending time and money and engineering resources to improve the blade lockup percentage will have no measurable effect on anything.

Now, by contrast, if LM were making some sort of highly specialized, like some special implement for orthodontic surgery (just a random specialized field), and it is only being used by power users with very specific needs, then they would probably have to do more research based on highly specific requests because the benefit to end users and ability to monetize and differentiate themselves is generally greater.

[Poncho65]

As of late LM has tended to go for more collectors and special edition. Meaning they are catering more and more to that market. Also we did also one time, have a LM employ fish here for info on a One Hand tool and not long after that the OHT was born that is actually  a little known fact that was never out really

I just wished if they were here lurking then they would just come and join in some (not just LM but other manufacturers as well  ) a lot of us here will buy tools as soon as they come out (like the Bond) and would have both good and back feedback for the tool that they could use.

I do realize regular users are not exactly like enthusiasts and collectors and I see myself as a user who just happens to have a bunch of tools because I like variety vs just having to buy everything that comes out but I realize other just like collecting and have no problem with them doing that as well

[Max Stone]

I posted a few comments/questions. Let's see if I get more than the default comments... 

[ElevenBlade]

I just read through it.  I got a few very interesting take home points.

- they skip pocket clips on the heavier tools because they could cause them to slip out. I can appreciate that, having lost a favorite knife this way.  They've had a lot of complaints on the KB with the pocket clips causing loss of the tool. So they know what to avoid.

- they continue to make serrated blades because they're better for certain tasks. (whether most people do those tasks most days is less important - a breath of fresh perspective from LM)

- the Juice, and scissors-based tools didn't sell. Oddly enough.

- there's a European variant of the Wave

- They've found that most use only two bits, as I suspected.

Overall, it seems that there's a lot of thought that goes in to what they produce (as expected) and the "average user" isn't the average MTo member.

[Syncop8r]

- they continue to make serrated blades because they're better for certain tasks. (whether most people do those tasks most days is less important - a breath of fresh perspective from LM)

I use serrated blades more than plain edge. That's with separate blades, I don't have any combo edges in use.

In your mind, you need to disaggregate "collectors and enthusiasts" with the actual market for multitools. Collectors and enthusiasts make up probably 1/50,000 of their total market. Even if they buy 100x the regular amount of tools, that's  0.2% of their market. It would make no sense to cater heavily to that sector (although they do from time to time with special editions and highly collectible variants like the Damascus Charge). They aren't building highly specialized tools targeted towards a very particular customer - they are making generally useful tools for everyone.

Overall, it seems that there's a lot of thought that goes in to what they produce (as expected) and the "average user" isn't the average MTo member.

As per their comments, they are driven by the market - what will sell, which makes money, which justifies their existence.

[Sea Monster]

- They've found that most use only two bits, as I suspected.

I wouldn't dare speculate as to their data collection methods, lest I be grouped among the "mind boggling number of people who think they know how leatherman does business"

but I would ponder if people only use two bits because they can't be arsed carrying a bit kit/card thing - and if the tools had built in storage, they would use more.

Case in point - I have this handy screwdriver that carries two double sided bits...which is kinda neat.

I'm not suggesting that this method itself would work on a multitool (or that it wouldn't) just that I rather carry this than a bit card with my Wave - not carrying extra wave bits isn't because I won't use them, it's because I don't find it that useful or convenient (I have a bit card, I find it small, easy to lose, hard to get the bits out of, it's all just a bit hinky)


I wonder if something like this was on the drawing board when Gerber released their long bit driver, then when that didn't make a dent in LM sales they moved on as there was no need to compete with it.

(Since a specific engineer at Leatherman definitely *doesn't* lurk here and therefore won't ever see this comment, I guess I don't have to worry too much about the eye rolling he's definitely not doing about my guesswork at their planning whiteboards )

[SurgeUk]

I wouldn't dare speculate as to their data collection methods, lest I be grouped among the "mind boggling number of people who think they know how leatherman does business"

but I would ponder if people only use two bits because they can't be arsed carrying a bit kit/card thing - and if the tools had built in storage, they would use more.

Case in point - I have this handy screwdriver that carries two double sided bits...which is kinda neat.

I'm not suggesting that this method itself would work on a multitool (or that it wouldn't) just that I rather carry this than a bit card with my Wave - not carrying extra wave bits isn't because I won't use them, it's because I don't find it that useful or convenient (I have a bit card, I find it small, easy to lose, hard to get the bits out of, it's all just a bit hinky)


I wonder if something like this was on the drawing board when Gerber released their long bit driver, then when that didn't make a dent in LM sales they moved on as there was no need to compete with it.

(Since a specific engineer at Leatherman definitely *doesn't* lurk here and therefore won't ever see this comment, I guess I don't have to worry too much about the eye rolling he's definitely not doing about my guesswork at their planning whiteboards )

This 

[gregpost]

 It seems to confirm the Curl is coming out in the next few months. They talked about the wire cutter style on the Bond and said similar tools would be coming in the next few months.

[Tikker]

the one question I asked, that they answered was making the robertson #2/#3 bit available as a replacement bit, rather than ONLY with a canadian surge

the bit kit has #1/#2 and then #3 on another bit

[Poncho65]

Well I am glad they answered your question anyways 

Mine was probably too late or they just ignored my comment

[hsherzfeld]

I just finished reading that Reddit AMA. I think it's pretty neat that the Leatherman engineers EDC their prototype tools.

One of the engineers also said that "One of the cool thing about Leatherman's culture is that there is a modding culture amongst the manufacturing team. There are all kinds of cool one off tools floating around the company."

It sounds like the people at Leatherman are just like us, but with more access to spare parts for mods!

[ElevenBlade]

I just finished reading that Reddit AMA. I think it's pretty neat that the Leatherman engineers EDC their prototype tools.

One of the engineers also said that "One of the cool thing about Leatherman's culture is that there is a modding culture amongst the manufacturing team. There are all kinds of cool one off tools floating around the company."

It sounds like the people at Leatherman are just like us, but with more access to spare parts for mods!

I was quite surprised by that.  I really thought that they would want to prevent mods because they would have fewer sales - with people modding their own "perfect Leatherman" rather than having two "almost perfect" options.... and then purchasing less overall.  Also if people send their tools in for warranty replacement when they have a failed attempt at a mod rather than a manufacturing defect - I'm sure that happens from time to time.  I'd figure that modding puts dent in their bottom line.   

[cody6268]

I wouldn't dare speculate as to their data collection methods, lest I be grouped among the "mind boggling number of people who think they know how leatherman does business"

but I would ponder if people only use two bits because they can't be arsed carrying a bit kit/card thing - and if the tools had built in storage, they would use more.

Case in point - I have this handy screwdriver that carries two double sided bits...which is kinda neat.

I'm not suggesting that this method itself would work on a multitool (or that it wouldn't) just that I rather carry this than a bit card with my Wave - not carrying extra wave bits isn't because I won't use them, it's because I don't find it that useful or convenient (I have a bit card, I find it small, easy to lose, hard to get the bits out of, it's all just a bit hinky)


I wonder if something like this was on the drawing board when Gerber released their long bit driver, then when that didn't make a dent in LM sales they moved on as there was no need to compete with it.

(Since a specific engineer at Leatherman definitely *doesn't* lurk here and therefore won't ever see this comment, I guess I don't have to worry too much about the eye rolling he's definitely not doing about my guesswork at their planning whiteboards )

Which is odd you mention that. Schrade (in the USA years) did, on the ST-5E. This same setup is used on the Klein/Blackfire HDMT-1 Heavy Duty Multitool.