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The Challenge of Champions in 2022!

SteveP · 501 · 22206

us Offline SteveP

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #240 on: March 10, 2022, 06:15:35 AM
:woohoo: :salute: :hatsoff:

I’d ask if I wanted any guesses to be private!  I just usually want participation and for others to find or see literally the kinds of things I’m talking about when I start blabbing about SAK chronology and dating. :D

But I do appreciate that you picked up on some of my crazy issues about sharing *everything* I know. :)
Now you've got me thinking and curious... If only '89s have this thicker liner, how do you know that the thicker liner was the norm for that year vs. whoever assembled that particular one (or that day's production run for that matter) just used the wrong liner for that layer by accident? Meaning that ones made by a different person have the usual thinner liner there?
SAKs:
58mm: Bijou (3), Classic SD (7), Mini Champ Plus (mod), Alox Classic SD, Rambler (3), Companion
65mm: Wenger Esquire
74mm: Executive (2)
85mm: Traveler, Delemont S10, Bass
91mm: Champion "c", Swiss Champ (4), Explorer (3), Deluxe Tinker, Huntsman, Serrated Spartan/Weekender, Explorer Plus, Deluxe Explorer Plus (mod), Outdoorsman Plus, Champion "a", Champion Plus, Timekeeper Alarm, Golfer
93mm: Pioneer Alox


us Offline Fireman

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #241 on: March 10, 2022, 03:31:03 PM
:woohoo: :salute: :hatsoff:

I’d ask if I wanted any guesses to be private!  I just usually want participation and for others to find or see literally the kinds of things I’m talking about when I start blabbing about SAK chronology and dating. :D

But I do appreciate that you picked up on some of my crazy issues about sharing *everything* I know. :)

Interesting.  Now I have to go back through your other pics.


us Offline Fireman

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #242 on: March 10, 2022, 03:33:05 PM
DAY 10  My got the boys some new squeaky toys, and the scissors cut away all those annoying plastic tabs.



us Offline kamakiri

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #243 on: March 10, 2022, 04:26:07 PM
Now you've got me thinking and curious... If only '89s have this thicker liner, how do you know that the thicker liner was the norm for that year vs. whoever assembled that particular one (or that day's production run for that matter) just used the wrong liner for that layer by accident? Meaning that ones made by a different person have the usual thinner liner there?

Excellent follow up question!

My short answer used to just be ‘trust me’.  ;)

Often the assumption is that I have just one example of the thing I’m using as ‘proof’ that something is a regular production item. Generally, I don’t. Not by the time I’m comfortable blabbing about it.






Show content

So part of the answer is that through sample variation, as some might guess, is a big part of how I can be confident of things I assert.

One thing I haven’t really talked about but would or should go in the philosophical bit that I haven’t written yet, is the test of ‘does this change make sense?’ Or simply theorizing the ‘why’. Victorinox certainly has several reasons why they make changes…but no more on that for now.

One simple point…the Champion is not the only model where this construction protocol is used for this year.

The difficult part to answer, is that my chronology and dating system is accurate enough and perhaps robust enough, at least IMO, to make such assertions. The exact parts for this timeframe are mostly open for discussion, but at least a couple of very specific things are not…or not yet. The ‘system’ is good enough that I would like to confirm a few things directly with Victorinox. And that’s mostly to confirm for others as a matter of due diligence rather than for any need for me to prove my claimed accuracy…especially when I go into sub-year analysis.

> Last paragraph redacted. <
« Last Edit: March 10, 2022, 04:34:46 PM by kamakiri »
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us Offline kamakiri

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #244 on: March 10, 2022, 04:33:36 PM
Interesting.  Now I have to go back through your other pics.

Maybe.  ;) :D

You might be the right person to see some of the differences!

There’s one discussion regarding c. 1973 knives in the vintage thread. Some of the things I was trying to show weren’t really met with (m)any observations…
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us Offline GA1dad

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #245 on: March 11, 2022, 12:20:04 AM
Challenge of Champions Day 10

Today I used the ruler to verify the size of a watch band.
 
Champion C
1- Large blade check                       13- Small blade check
2- Corkscrew check                         14- Can opener check
3- Small screwdriver  check             15- Cap lifter
4- Screwdriver                                  16- Wire stripper
5- Reamer check                              17- Scissors check
6- Phillips screwdriver                      18- Magnifying glass check
7- Wood saw                                    19- Fish scaler check
8- Hook disgorger                             20- Ruler check
9- Nail file                                          21- Metal file check
10- Nail cleaner                                22- Metal saw
11- Fine screwdriver                         23- Keyring
12- Tweezers check                        24- Toothpick check
Jason - N4RBZ- A Harley can get you through times of no money better than money can get you through times of no Harley____O~`o__


us Offline Alan K.

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #246 on: March 11, 2022, 12:22:15 AM
Pictures? :dunno:


us Offline GA1dad

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #247 on: March 11, 2022, 12:25:52 AM
Pictures? :dunno:

Shakin' the bush over here boss,,, shakin' the bush.

A moment of brain lapse,,,,  :whistle:

Jason - N4RBZ- A Harley can get you through times of no money better than money can get you through times of no Harley____O~`o__


us Offline SteveP

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #248 on: March 11, 2022, 02:04:53 AM
Excellent follow up question!

My short answer used to just be ‘trust me’.  ;)

Often the assumption is that I have just one example of the thing I’m using as ‘proof’ that something is a regular production item. Generally, I don’t. Not by the time I’m comfortable blabbing about it.






Show content

So part of the answer is that through sample variation, as some might guess, is a big part of how I can be confident of things I assert.

One thing I haven’t really talked about but would or should go in the philosophical bit that I haven’t written yet, is the test of ‘does this change make sense?’ Or simply theorizing the ‘why’. Victorinox certainly has several reasons why they make changes…but no more on that for now.

One simple point…the Champion is not the only model where this construction protocol is used for this year.

The difficult part to answer, is that my chronology and dating system is accurate enough and perhaps robust enough, at least IMO, to make such assertions. The exact parts for this timeframe are mostly open for discussion, but at least a couple of very specific things are not…or not yet. The ‘system’ is good enough that I would like to confirm a few things directly with Victorinox. And that’s mostly to confirm for others as a matter of due diligence rather than for any need for me to prove my claimed accuracy…especially when I go into sub-year analysis.

> Last paragraph redacted. <
Thanks. I'd guessed that you'd examined multiple examples. That there are other models with the same construction is also interesting. Just leaves the question of why Vic did it. But I suppose that would be hard to know this far on.

Always interesting learning about this stuff. Had no idea it was this detailed when I got into SAKs.
SAKs:
58mm: Bijou (3), Classic SD (7), Mini Champ Plus (mod), Alox Classic SD, Rambler (3), Companion
65mm: Wenger Esquire
74mm: Executive (2)
85mm: Traveler, Delemont S10, Bass
91mm: Champion "c", Swiss Champ (4), Explorer (3), Deluxe Tinker, Huntsman, Serrated Spartan/Weekender, Explorer Plus, Deluxe Explorer Plus (mod), Outdoorsman Plus, Champion "a", Champion Plus, Timekeeper Alarm, Golfer
93mm: Pioneer Alox


us Offline SteveP

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #249 on: March 11, 2022, 02:08:55 AM
Day 10

A two-fer for today...

Used the pin in my Plus to clean out a shower head that was spraying in every direction but the right one.

Later, used the large slotted driver on the '83 to tighten a screw on a pot handle.

I usually carry a Champ as I like having the pliers, but a third of the way into this challenge and I've missed the pliers only once so far.
SAKs:
58mm: Bijou (3), Classic SD (7), Mini Champ Plus (mod), Alox Classic SD, Rambler (3), Companion
65mm: Wenger Esquire
74mm: Executive (2)
85mm: Traveler, Delemont S10, Bass
91mm: Champion "c", Swiss Champ (4), Explorer (3), Deluxe Tinker, Huntsman, Serrated Spartan/Weekender, Explorer Plus, Deluxe Explorer Plus (mod), Outdoorsman Plus, Champion "a", Champion Plus, Timekeeper Alarm, Golfer
93mm: Pioneer Alox


us Offline BPRoberts

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #250 on: March 11, 2022, 02:52:21 AM
Day 10

Glasses fell off while doing pushups today, so I used the mini-driver to tighten them up.

Tools Used

Magnifying Glass- Edge examination
Large Blade- Pear slicing
Pen- Note taking
Ruler- Car fob measurement
Small Blade- Open mail, slice rags
Fish Scaler- Disarm mouse trap
Scissors- Trim thread
Hook Disgorger- Back scratcher
Inline Phillips- Tub drain adjustment
Parcel Hook- Dress carrying
Toothpick- Tooth Pickin'
Eyeglass Driver- Glasses tightening

Tools Remaining
Tweezers, Pin, Keyring, Metal File, Metal Saw, Nail Cleaner, Wood Saw, Bottle Opener, Flat Driver, Wire Stripper, Can Opener, Small Phillips, Corkscrew, , Reamer, Technician's Screwdriver, Chisel


us Offline kamakiri

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #251 on: March 11, 2022, 04:33:51 AM
kamakiri - Day 10

Changed to a ‘78 Hoffritz for Day 10.  Almost was a no-use day. Thought I decided not to open my mail and packages…but some other stuff came in for others…IKEA…Amazon…

I’ll try to get to the chronology details in this one later. Tweezer and shield fairly clear that it’s later than ‘77…but more importantly could be used to clarify why not ‘79. Being a Hoffritz, in this case would need a longer explanation, I think.

Day of Challenge / Knife used:
1. Original Black 1984
2. Champion Plus c. ‘09
3. 1974 Red w/o Nickel Silver Shield
4. 1967 Hoffritz Champion B
5. 1983 Hoffritz Champion C - 11258 Super Knife
6. 1965 Hoffritz Champion B
7. 1986 Champion C
8. 1978 Champion C
9. 1989 Champion C
10. 1978 Hoffritz - Stainless inlay


« Last Edit: March 11, 2022, 04:44:03 AM by kamakiri »
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us Offline Alan K.

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #252 on: March 11, 2022, 06:35:57 AM
Shakin' the bush over here boss,,, shakin' the bush.

A moment of brain lapse,,,,  :whistle:
I'm glad you got your mind right.


us Offline Alan K.

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #253 on: March 11, 2022, 06:42:53 AM
Day 10
I like having the magnifying lens a lot more now than I used to. I guess my eyes just aren't too good anymore.


us Offline GA1dad

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #254 on: March 11, 2022, 11:41:54 AM
I'm glad you got your mind right.

 :rofl:
Jason - N4RBZ- A Harley can get you through times of no money better than money can get you through times of no Harley____O~`o__


us Offline Fireman

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #255 on: March 11, 2022, 12:47:14 PM
I'm glad you got your mind right.

Wish you'd stop being so good to me, Captain.


us Offline hsherzfeld

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #256 on: March 11, 2022, 03:02:27 PM
Day 10 (late)
No Champion usage to report yesterday, but I just never had a chance to take a photo. So here’s my attempt at a Champion glamor shot in my office, with my EDC flashlight providing the extra lighting.

Note the pocket clip attached to the keyring via a snap clip. It allows the SAK to hang deeper in my pocket than just having the pocket clip attached directly to the keyring, and it allows me to quickly swap the clip between SAKs. How do y’all carry your Champions?
Current SAKs: Explorer, SwissChamp, Handyman (modded), Climber, Super Tinker, Tinker, Woodsman (modded), Electrician, Pioneer, SwissTool, Executive, Ambassador, Champion Plus
Current Leatherman tools: PST, Original Wave, Wave, Wave+, Blast, Bond, Curl, Style PS, Micra

Boomer Sooner!


us Offline kamakiri

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #257 on: March 11, 2022, 04:40:44 PM
Excellent uses and pics, fellow Champions!  I gotta crank up my uses…I was just glad I actually used the scaler for something during the challenge.  :-\

Thanks. I'd guessed that you'd examined multiple examples. That there are other models with the same construction is also interesting. Just leaves the question of why Vic did it. But I suppose that would be hard to know this far on.
Sorry about not seeing your reply here…totally bleary-eyed late yesterday.  :(

Victorinox broadly made many, many changes for higher quality or durability and lower cost or increased efficiency. So a part could be lightened or made thicker…depending which of the key reasons the change was being executed.

Show content
Regarding this part and why it didn’t last long…it basically got superceded and combined with another liner either at or very close to the same time. My Chonology suggests that that change happened around or within a year from its introduction. Not an uncommon practice and other changes have lived even shorter production lives.

Always interesting learning about this stuff. Had no idea it was this detailed when I got into SAKs.

Yes, and likewise.

Show content
Absolutely had no idea…because as far as I know…it wasn’t done before. And that’s not to say somebody else doesn’t have more details in different time periods. But just for the ‘70s and maybe the ‘80s…I’ve shaken out and identified far more changes than I thought would be possible. In the ‘70s, I stopped counting sometime after I passed 40 changes. The irony is that it’s the huge quantity of changes that allow all the fine divisions of decades and years. The system is inherently high-precision…but lots of work is required to achieve high accuracy.
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us Offline Fireman

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #258 on: March 11, 2022, 11:21:31 PM
DAY 11  No uses, so I imitated hsherzfeld's style.



us Offline kamakiri

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #259 on: March 11, 2022, 11:43:43 PM
kamakiri - Day 11

Changed to a ‘80 Abercrombie & Fitch advertising knife for Day 11. Used the scaler as a weeder since I’m missing the pliers. Was also missing the pliers for fixing springs on a broken set of Vic pliers on one of the Troubleshooters. Used a set of Knipex instead. Not the 16” set. The Knipex are better for setting the springs anyway, but maybe not better at helping to get the broken spring out since they’re smooth jawed. I have a few of these A&F Champions. This one is the earliest and the latest is NIB and maybe ‘86-‘87 IIRC, and it might make an appearance later in the Challenge. Also used the file, scissors, and magnifier. Picked this one because I wanted a beater for garden duty…but regretting that a bit now that I’m indoors. Not that sharp even to do the mail.

This one is 1980 mainly for the awl. Other construction and ‘progression’ (I think I will call them) details also confirm and narrow the possible range.  I believe this knife in particular confirms it as one of the first Champion Cs to sport the ‘new’ black cellidor scales that first only appeared on Champions and either the Classic or SD. I think Classic sounds right. Black scales were used in the past, but I think this is the first or close to it for the Champions.



Day of Challenge / Knife used:
1. Original Black 1984
2. Champion Plus c. ‘09
3. 1974 Red w/o Nickel Silver Shield
4. 1967 Hoffritz Champion B
5. 1983 Hoffritz Champion C - 11258 Super Knife
6. 1965 Hoffritz Champion B
7. 1986 Champion C
8. 1978 Champion C
9. 1989 Champion C
10. 1978 Hoffritz - Stainless inlay
11. 1980 A&F black Champion 1 of 3



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us Offline GA1dad

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #260 on: March 12, 2022, 01:20:58 AM
Challenge of Champions Day 11

Today I used the hook disgorger to flip steaks.
 
Champion C
1- Large blade check                       13- Small blade check
2- Corkscrew check                         14- Can opener check
3- Small screwdriver  check             15- Cap lifter
4- Screwdriver                                  16- Wire stripper
5- Reamer check                              17- Scissors check
6- Phillips screwdriver                      18- Magnifying glass check
7- Wood saw                                    19- Fish scaler check
8- Hook disgorger check                   20- Ruler check
9- Nail file                                          21- Metal file check
10- Nail cleaner                                22- Metal saw
11- Fine screwdriver                         23- Keyring
12- Tweezers check                        24- Toothpick check

Jason - N4RBZ- A Harley can get you through times of no money better than money can get you through times of no Harley____O~`o__


us Offline Alan K.

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #261 on: March 12, 2022, 01:50:36 AM
Mmm, that looks tasty! :drool:


us Offline Alan K.

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #262 on: March 12, 2022, 01:59:48 AM
Day 11
No use today.


us Offline Farmer X

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #263 on: March 12, 2022, 02:40:07 AM
Today I used the hook disgorger to flip steaks.
A nicely grilled steak! :tu:
USN 2000-2006

Culling of the knife and multi herds in progress...

If I pay five figures for something, it better have wings or a foundation!


us Offline BPRoberts

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #264 on: March 12, 2022, 04:23:34 AM
Day 11


A few repeat uses today, slicing lunch and carrying grocery bags. I decided to take a close up of the ding in one of the scales/liners. Not sure what it's from, it was like that when I got it.

Tools Used

Magnifying Glass- Edge examination
Large Blade- Pear slicing
Pen- Note taking
Ruler- Car fob measurement
Small Blade- Open mail, slice rags
Fish Scaler- Disarm mouse trap
Scissors- Trim thread
Hook Disgorger- Back scratcher
Inline Phillips- Tub drain adjustment
Parcel Hook- Dress carrying
Toothpick- Tooth Pickin'
Eyeglass Driver- Glasses tightening

Tools Remaining
Tweezers, Pin, Keyring, Metal File, Metal Saw, Nail Cleaner, Wood Saw, Bottle Opener, Flat Driver, Wire Stripper, Can Opener, Small Phillips, Corkscrew, , Reamer, Technician's Screwdriver, Chisel


us Offline SteveP

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #265 on: March 12, 2022, 05:10:25 AM
Challenge of Champions Day 11

Today I used the hook disgorger to flip steaks.
 
:like:
How'd the steaks turn out?
SAKs:
58mm: Bijou (3), Classic SD (7), Mini Champ Plus (mod), Alox Classic SD, Rambler (3), Companion
65mm: Wenger Esquire
74mm: Executive (2)
85mm: Traveler, Delemont S10, Bass
91mm: Champion "c", Swiss Champ (4), Explorer (3), Deluxe Tinker, Huntsman, Serrated Spartan/Weekender, Explorer Plus, Deluxe Explorer Plus (mod), Outdoorsman Plus, Champion "a", Champion Plus, Timekeeper Alarm, Golfer
93mm: Pioneer Alox


us Offline SteveP

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #266 on: March 12, 2022, 05:12:44 AM
Day 11

Used the big slotted screwdriver and the inline Phillips to take apart a frozen gutter downspout. With freezing water running over my hands, not really a photo op.   :(
SAKs:
58mm: Bijou (3), Classic SD (7), Mini Champ Plus (mod), Alox Classic SD, Rambler (3), Companion
65mm: Wenger Esquire
74mm: Executive (2)
85mm: Traveler, Delemont S10, Bass
91mm: Champion "c", Swiss Champ (4), Explorer (3), Deluxe Tinker, Huntsman, Serrated Spartan/Weekender, Explorer Plus, Deluxe Explorer Plus (mod), Outdoorsman Plus, Champion "a", Champion Plus, Timekeeper Alarm, Golfer
93mm: Pioneer Alox


us Offline hsherzfeld

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #267 on: March 12, 2022, 05:27:27 AM
Day 11
I sliced a baguette in half to make a sandwich. This is one of those rare tasks that cause me to wish for a longer blade.
Current SAKs: Explorer, SwissChamp, Handyman (modded), Climber, Super Tinker, Tinker, Woodsman (modded), Electrician, Pioneer, SwissTool, Executive, Ambassador, Champion Plus
Current Leatherman tools: PST, Original Wave, Wave, Wave+, Blast, Bond, Curl, Style PS, Micra

Boomer Sooner!


us Offline Fireman

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #268 on: March 12, 2022, 07:02:07 PM
DAY 12  I took the Champ on a 5 1/2 mile walk today.  Here's the view from a lookout and the Champ flexing.




us Offline Farmer X

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Re: The Challenge of Champions in 2022!
Reply #269 on: March 12, 2022, 09:05:19 PM
I took the Champ on a 5 1/2 mile walk today.  Here's the view from a lookout and the Champ flexing.
If I took.a 5.5 mile walk, I'd see noting but urban and suburban ugliness. Your views are much nicer! :tu:
USN 2000-2006

Culling of the knife and multi herds in progress...

If I pay five figures for something, it better have wings or a foundation!


 

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