Alec Baldwin

[Top-Gear-24]

If we can't keep it civil I will have to be forced to lock this one. We hardly if ever lock them but the tone of this from many have not been what we expect from MTO 

If any of you think about posting something else that isn't with our normally friendly tone then please go away for a bit and come back when you aren't posting as emotionally

Also no politics,  we do not have many rules and I know anything gun related can be for political but again this is one of our few rules

Remember over all that this is a tragedy that will likely scar some individuals and changed some persons family no matter the outcome of the arguments and we need to respect that as well

I tried to have a civil conversation here, but apparently some people get a slap on the wrist for not behaving properly once (I'm not talking about myself), while another person gets away with just about anything.

People in this (and other, related topics) have been treated differently depending on which side of the discussion they stand, instead of on how civilized they present their opinion.  Which is just wrong...

But if that's how the game is going to be played, you might end up losing a part of the diversity that makes this place into what it is...

There's already one person here who'll never get another word out of me, which is quite sad in a group I considered as being my family from all over the world.

[Fuzzbucket]

I tried to have a civil conversation here, but apparently some people get a slap on the wrist for not behaving properly once (I'm not talking about myself), while another person gets away with just about anything.

People in this (and other, related topics) have been treated differently depending on which side of the discussion they stand, instead of on how civilized they present their opinion.  Which is just wrong...

But if that's how the game is going to be played, you might end up losing a part of the diversity that makes this place into what it is...

There's already one person here who'll never get another word out of me, which is quite sad in a group I considered as being my family from all over the world.

Just remember though TG, every family has its fair share of knobheads, but we still forgive them and have them over for holidays etc... This family's not that different really, is it?

[Grant Lamontagne]

I think you may have set the tone there Grant:

Do you really feel sorry for him? Or are you enjoying the irony? Most of your posts put him down in some way.
Are you just throwing a dead cat on the table and letting others be your attack dogs because you don't have the guts to say what you really want to?

I hope not, I would be very disappointed if this was the case. And embarrassed as a member of MTO.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Baldwin isn't a member here, and if he is, I will publicly apologize to him.

I do feel sorry for the man.  As I said, he has committed a horrible act, whatever the chain of events may be leading up to it, and he will have to live with it.  I am not a fan of the man, and I apologize if you have read too much into that.  I cannot imagine the trauma he is currently dealing with, and I hope that whatever happens from here on out, that he can get the help he likely needs- as anyone would in a similar situation.

And, the only "attack dog" I had passed away last year, and honestly  you'd have to have gone through me to get to her.  I'd think that after all the time you have been here, you'd have known that by now. 

Someone is dead because of an accident.  Anyone who is enjoying the irony of that needs serious help, and probably a significant level of incarceration. 

If you want to keep this discussion going, we should consider taking it to PM's rather than risk getting the thread locked.   

I'd lock it now, but I'd hate anyone to think I was avoiding a rebuttal.   

Def

[Nix]

Just remember though TG, every family has its fair share of knobheads, but we still forgive them and have them over for holidays etc... This family's not that different really, is it?

So...does that mean you'll change your mind and let me come over for Up Helly Aa?

I promise *** crossed fingers ***, no more naked, drunken, sword play from me. And I'll try to leave your cat be, this time.   

[SteveC]

I tried to have a civil conversation here, but apparently some people get a slap on the wrist for not behaving properly once (I'm not talking about myself), while another person gets away with just about anything.

People in this (and other, related topics) have been treated differently depending on which side of the discussion they stand, instead of on how civilized they present their opinion.  Which is just wrong...

But if that's how the game is going to be played, you might end up losing a part of the diversity that makes this place into what it is...

There's already one person here who'll never get another word out of me, which is quite sad in a group I considered as being my family from all over the world.

I'm sorry you feel that way. We moderators try to be impartial and threads like this always seem to bring out the worst in people. I can assure you that we don't take sides in these matters.

I should have said personal attacks or name calling will not be tolerated from anyone period.

This ^

[Fuzzbucket]

So...does that mean you'll change your mind and let me come over for Up Helly Aa?

I promise *** crossed fingers ***, no more naked, drunken, sword play from me. And I'll try to leave your cat be, this time.  

Oh... sorry... we all thought you were just being a bit prudish...

My apologies. 

PS. No more Top Deck for you though!

[Nix]

Oh... sorry... we all thought you were just being a bit prudish...

My apologies. 

PS. No more Top Deck for you though!

So that's a 'yes', then?

And I don't even recall the Top Deck....did I drink it all?     If so, I'll bring a bottle of Old Nasty's Popskull by way of atonement. They say it is safe to drink.

[Nix]

I'm sorry you feel that way. We moderators try to be impartial and threads like this always seem to bring out the worst in people.

Rapid-fire, impersonal communication is inherently fraught with the chance for missteps and misinterpretation.

I thought it was a pretty good discussion, aside from some forceful speech that could be inferred to be hostile.

For my part, I apologize to any who might have taken offense by what I said. I engaged in the conversation in a spirit of exploration.

And I repeat my earlier sentiments of sorrow and condolence for the many parties involved in the actual incident. Until proven otherwise, I view the event as a terrible tragedy, likely involving several parties. I assume that there are many agents who are feeling terrible guilt and sorrow today. I am sure that some people will face legal consequences. And all for no good reason. Most of all my sympathies go out to the friends and family of Halyna Hutchins.

I further hope that any levity expressed on my part in this thread is not interpreted as my being callous or indifferent to the suffering that we are speaking of. I am quite sensible of the very real pain that those involved are dealing with.

I hope that everyone and the film industry can learn from this painful lesson.

So...I said I'd shut up...and I almost did. Still if there are ruffled feathers here, it seemed worth making some apologies. Peace, out.   

[Poncho65]

I tried to have a civil conversation here, but apparently some people get a slap on the wrist for not behaving properly once (I'm not talking about myself), while another person gets away with just about anything.

People in this (and other, related topics) have been treated differently depending on which side of the discussion they stand, instead of on how civilized they present their opinion.  Which is just wrong...

But if that's how the game is going to be played, you might end up losing a part of the diversity that makes this place into what it is...

There's already one person here who'll never get another word out of me, which is quite sad in a group I considered as being my family from all over the world.

I wasn't pointing any particular person out and was just meaning for the whole conversation to become civil

I tried being as impartial as I could be with my wording because I can see both sides of this and consider all the people in here family and friends (no matter the opinions they or I have )

[Fuzzbucket]

So that's a 'yes', then?

And I don't even recall the Top Deck....did I drink it all?     If so, I'll bring a bottle of Old Nasty's Popskull by way of atonement. They say it is safe to drink.

A whole can... A whole can of triple-strength shandy. 

[Top-Gear-24]

Just remember though TG, every family has its fair share of knobheads, but we still forgive them and have them over for holidays etc... This family's not that different really, is it?

True, but at least you'd get the chance of drawing a huge gentleman's sausage on his forehead while he's lying passed out on the floor...

[Fuzzbucket]

Rapid-fire, impersonal communication is inherently fraught with the chance for missteps and misinterpretation.

...

So...I said I'd shut up...and I almost did. Still if there are ruffled feathers here, it seemed worth making some apologies. Peace, out.   

Oh, don't do that.

[Mechanickal]

I came here to clean my desk so to speak.

Then I was like "let's have another look around the place first... You never know"
And I stumble upon this.

Back in 2016 when I joined, I soon learned that politics, guns and religion are touchy subjects, and combinations of those are always problematic. I've since avoided such topics as much as possible and if I recall correctly, they were prohibited all this time here (apart from guns/shooting threads).

So I was rather surprised to see nobody less than the forum owner start a topic about a gun incident, adding a political jab in between the lines and a bit of a conspiracy theory to spice it up a bit more.

If I made an account just to do that, it'd probably have been a blocked one by now.


Now, during my time away from here I've actually been following courses for extra degrees.
My latest one finished 2 weeks ago and was all about safety and security advice and conception.
One part was criminology vs accidents...

A crime always means there was ill intent.
A crime means there was an "aggressor" (someone willing to perform the act).

An accident means there was no ill intent.
An accident means there's no aggressor.
An accident can be recognised best if the outcome is a result of different events, errors or situations that occurred in relation to each other.

No matter who's to blame, this was an accident..
A terrible one that has caused pain and grief in multiple families and will result in countless sleepless nights and countless teardrops.

Yet here you all are, smelling your own farts about who's right and who's wrong. "Who's to blame?!"

"Maybe if I shout harder my opinion will be more important?"

This place has become a one way street for opinions.
If you're on the north side of the continent of the US, you seem to have less strict rules to follow regarding the posts you make here.
Since it seems that about everyone who's not inside that specific content agrees on that and only the ones disagreeing are in it, it's safe to assume that a cognitive bias is in place.

I see TG asking well composed and worded questions being replied with "I'll answer your question; constitutional blablabla..." And not an actual answer to the initial question. Just a diversion with laws and rights.

I see how he brings up the terrorist attacks in our country of an example how not a single society is perfect, only for it to be waved off with "I never said anything about terrorist attacks!"
This only shows that the actual written text has not been read. How can you answer questions and have a constructive discussion if you don't even feel like reading someone else's post? What was that about elitism?

Just pause for a minute and take a look at how you all behaved.
Quick to judge because every single one of you has never made a mistake or ever payed too little attention?
You're all perfect human beings?

I hope my best that nobody ever has to go through something like what has happened and if it does, that nobody will have an army of keyboard warriors telling they're better than you because they're absolutely perfect human beings.

Pull your heads out of you arses and start caring about your fellow human beings regardless of their political views, regardless if they have the same life-philosophy.
Maybe even stop pointing fingers and reach a hand to someone in need rather than stomping them further down the pit.
Who knows, you might even make friends in places you never expected them to be.

This has been nothing but caveman behaviour and I'm ashamed to have an MTO sticker on my tool cabinet while topics like these exist on that very website.
And to realise it's second hand shame!!

[Fuzzbucket]

True, but at least you'd get the chance of drawing a huge gentleman's sausage on his forehead while he's lying passed out on the floor...

You can still do that, that's what pms are for.   

[Grant Lamontagne]

Has everyone had their say?  Probably a good time to lock this now. 

Def