What would you regard as being the strongest folding knife?

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Ok I was thinking long and hard about this last night, and I reckon given this knife's features, this is probably the strongest design out there atm http://www.heinnie.com/8nXlkg150760/Knives/Extrema-Ratio/Extrema-Ratio-Rao/p-92-137-936/ And having that safety pin almost makes the lock strength a moot point

That's a beast, an ugly beast   

Like me then

[Magic Bus]

But likeable 

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

But likeable 

The knife or me

[Magic Bus]

Both of you of course 

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Both of you of course 

Of course

[ringzero]

Ok I was thinking long and hard about this last night, and I reckon given this knife's features, this is probably the strongest design out there atm http://www.heinnie.com/8nXlkg150760/Knives/Extrema-Ratio/Extrema-Ratio-Rao/p-92-137-936/ And having that safety pin almost makes the lock strength a moot point

The Rao might be the world's strongest folding knife, but it appears to be a solution in search of a problem.

Rao's 1/4 in thick blade is 4.x in long, set in a 5.x in long handle, for a total length of 10.x in when locked open.

But, Rao weighs in at 12.x ounces!

Consider weights of fixed blade knives with equal thickness blades and similar overall lengths.  Those fixed blades will be both lighter and stronger than Rao.

Rao is never going to be pocket carried, it almost has to be carried in its belt pouch, so why not carry a lighter fixed blade on the belt instead of Rao.

The only scenario I could see where Rao would have an advantage over a lighter, stronger fixed blade knife would perhaps be for vehicle crews.

A Rao on the belt rather than a fixed blade would allow armor crew to sit in their vehicle without the knife getting in the way as much as a fixed blade would.

That's it, I can't think of any other scenario where Rao would beat out a fixed blade.

.

This thread isn't about the knife having a reason to exist, just what's the strongest design

True enough.  However, that doesn't stop me from offering my opinion of the Rao: limited utility and rather impractical for most purposes.

If I'm wrong - and I could well be wrong - please point out where I'm mistaken.  I just can't see why anyone would want one of these, other than as a collector item to be admired then put away for safekeeping.

.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I believe Mikko has one, and that mad bugger used it for everything that the more sane amoung us would use a fixed blade for

[WhichDawg]

the Buck 110 is pretty hefty, many have had them forever!

but what I really like and want is a Benchmade 610 Rukus

I got to handle it at a show, was it big and really nice!
and sweet Axis Locks

[Benner]

I wouldn't say no to one either 

[WhichDawg]

the 110 is waaaaay cheaper! (Lamb D cheap )

[LatinoHeat]

What are you using to gauge a knife's toughness?  Locking ability?  Edge retention?  Or over all ruggedness?  If it is over all ruggedness, my vote goes to the good old fashioned Sodbuster.  I love Case's Soddie Jr., in CV steel.  Hard use knife that will last forever with minimal care, and the blades take and keep a good edge, being CV steel and all.  Simple, slipjoint construction means not too many pieces to break.  Strong spring keeps blade open, and I have never needed a lock, so that doesn't bother me.  If I was caught in a survival situation, and that's the only knife I had, I'd be ok.  Another choice would be an Alox SAK, such as a Pioneer, Farmer, or Wenger SI.  Can't beat an Alox SAK for toughness.

The "criteria" are in the first post.

Although I do classify those as hard use knives, they are not even in the same league as most of the others mentioned in this thread.  I'm talking about the strongest folder and the thinness of the blades alone knocks all those out IMO.

Hey Ben.  Just for the sake of discussion, I understand the lock thing.  Soddies don't have a lock.  However, I am not seeing how the thinness of the blade knock it out of the running.  I mean, as knife users, we all know a knife is used to cut.  Not to pry.  Not to drive a screw.  Not for anything like that, just to cut.  So, what cutting chore would one of the other knives handle that a soddie wouldn't handle just as easily?  I ask because for a long time I wanted the thicker, "tough" knives as well, but one day I asked myself the same thing, and couldn't answer the question.  A thinner blade = a better cutter.  Heck, one of the best swords in the history of man, the samurai sword, was thin as all get out, and many could slice through 5-6 human bodies in one swoop.  These knives (the sodbuster pattern) have been used all over the world, in countries where men REALLY work hard, out doors, all the time.  Not to put anyone down here, but you get what I mean.  Plus, our grandparents, and their parents, lived in a time where knives were used alot harder then ours are today, no matter how hard we claim to use them.  A knife doesn't chop.  It doesn't saw.  It doesn't pry.  It cuts.  Which is why I asked the toughness question. 

[Paul]

Them Strider Folders are said to be pretty tough, but I've never handled one. What I do have is;

Titanium flamelock, S30V blade.
Benchmade 630 Skirmish.



She's pretty and tough!

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I love the lines on the Skirmish

[Tinnie]

I love the lines on the Skirmish

+1

[Benner]

What are you using to gauge a knife's toughness?  Locking ability?  Edge retention?  Or over all ruggedness?  If it is over all ruggedness, my vote goes to the good old fashioned Sodbuster.  I love Case's Soddie Jr., in CV steel.  Hard use knife that will last forever with minimal care, and the blades take and keep a good edge, being CV steel and all.  Simple, slipjoint construction means not too many pieces to break.  Strong spring keeps blade open, and I have never needed a lock, so that doesn't bother me.  If I was caught in a survival situation, and that's the only knife I had, I'd be ok.  Another choice would be an Alox SAK, such as a Pioneer, Farmer, or Wenger SI.  Can't beat an Alox SAK for toughness.

The "criteria" are in the first post.

Although I do classify those as hard use knives, they are not even in the same league as most of the others mentioned in this thread.  I'm talking about the strongest folder and the thinness of the blades alone knocks all those out IMO.

Hey Ben.  Just for the sake of discussion, I understand the lock thing.  Soddies don't have a lock.  However, I am not seeing how the thinness of the blade knock it out of the running.  I mean, as knife users, we all know a knife is used to cut.  Not to pry.  Not to drive a screw.  Not for anything like that, just to cut.  So, what cutting chore would one of the other knives handle that a soddie wouldn't handle just as easily?  I ask because for a long time I wanted the thicker, "tough" knives as well, but one day I asked myself the same thing, and couldn't answer the question.  A thinner blade = a better cutter.  Heck, one of the best swords in the history of man, the samurai sword, was thin as all get out, and many could slice through 5-6 human bodies in one swoop.  These knives (the sodbuster pattern) have been used all over the world, in countries where men REALLY work hard, out doors, all the time.  Not to put anyone down here, but you get what I mean.  Plus, our grandparents, and their parents, lived in a time where knives were used alot harder then ours are today, no matter how hard we claim to use them.  A knife doesn't chop.  It doesn't saw.  It doesn't pry.  It cuts.  Which is why I asked the toughness question. 

All good a valid points  , but this thread was started to find out the strongest one out there.  I know a knife isn't for prying, chopping etc, and that Soddies have been around for donkeys years, but just comparing the Soddie to a Chinook for example, there is just no comparison is there?  I am not saying that the Sodbusters are weak, far from it, but just their overall structure (hence why I said about the thinness of the blade for example) is just weaker than that of the Chinooks and the Striders out there.

I just think that in this type of discussion (where the answer really just doesn't matter TBH) such knives as Sodbusters and ALOX aren't in the same league.

[LatinoHeat]

Well, young man, I will disagree with you on the "not in the same league" thing, but hey, that's what these forums are for, right?  To agree to disagree.  LOL.

[Benner]

Well, young man, I will disagree with you on the "not in the same league" thing, but hey, that's what these forums are for, right?  To agree to disagree.  LOL.

Ok then, so please explain to me how you can compare a sodbuster to a Strider, or a Soldier to a Chinook?  They to me are "not in the same league" not even if you squinted.    2 of those are ridiculously overbuilt (way more than is ever needed tbh) and 2 of those are just good strong folders.  But for me, there is no comparison.

Explain 

[LatinoHeat]

How do they NOT compare?  What can any of the knives you just mentioned take, abuse wise, that a Soddie can't?  I'm not turning this into a slippie verses tactical argument, mind you.  Just playing devil's advocate.  It's a knife.  Give me a scenerio where one of your knives will handle something a Soddie can't?  Like I said, these are knives.  They need to cut.  That's it.  A multitool is different.  It gets torqued, twisted, squeezed, etc.  But for a knife?  Where all you are going to do is cut?  What's the difference?  You pry, they will all break.  You drop one from a plane, they will all break.  You know what i mean?  How do you judge something like this.  You said they are not in the same league, how so?  To answer your direct question, an older style knife like a Sodbuster is built like a tank, very comfortable to hold, and has fewer parts to break on it.  I'm guessing the modern folders will develop a wobble on the blade sooner then my Soddie, which is a sign of wear, and if one wears faster then the other, that is a sign of not being as "tough", no?  This is all speculation, of course.  I have no idea how we would see which one is really tougher.  I just don't see how, in any way, they are not even in the same league.
Ok, your turn.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Sorry mate, but you are just wrong

This is a thread about super strong knives, the sort of folder that you CAN hammer into a tree, then stand on it, that you CAN do pull up's on, that you CAN batton wood with, that you could (though why you'd want too ) stab into a car door, and is the sort of knife you can use and abuse with total confidence because it's over built, and has a lock so strong you can almost regard as a fixed blade (I wouldn't still though)

Soddies are very fine knives, as are Alox Sak's and OHT's, but in this rarefied company they just can't compete at all, but there not suposed too, as this type of folder has been designed, with everything other than strength to be a VERY secondary consideration

[Spork, Lord of Lime Jello!]

This is a thread about super strong knives, the sort of folder that you CAN hammer into a tree, then stand on it, that you CAN do pull up's on, that you CAN batton wood with, that you could (though why you'd want too ) stab into a car door, and is the sort of knife you can use and abuse with total confidence because it's over built, and has a lock so strong you can almost regard as a fixed blade (I wouldn't still though)

What? No requirement for dispatching Zombies and Ninja? Disappointing!...

[Benner]

How do they NOT compare?  What can any of the knives you just mentioned take, abuse wise, that a Soddie can't?  I'm not turning this into a slippie verses tactical argument, mind you.  Just playing devil's advocate.  It's a knife.  Give me a scenerio where one of your knives will handle something a Soddie can't?  Like I said, these are knives.  They need to cut.  That's it.  A multitool is different.  It gets torqued, twisted, squeezed, etc.  But for a knife?  Where all you are going to do is cut?  What's the difference?  You pry, they will all break.  You drop one from a plane, they will all break.  You know what i mean?  How do you judge something like this.  You said they are not in the same league, how so?  To answer your direct question, an older style knife like a Sodbuster is built like a tank, very comfortable to hold, and has fewer parts to break on it.  I'm guessing the modern folders will develop a wobble on the blade sooner then my Soddie, which is a sign of wear, and if one wears faster then the other, that is a sign of not being as "tough", no?  This is all speculation, of course.  I have no idea how we would see which one is really tougher.  I just don't see how, in any way, they are not even in the same league.
Ok, your turn.

OK, I can see where you are coming from on the whole "a knife is for cutting" thing, but I still cannot see how you cannot see how something like a Strider (there are plenty of other knives out there but this is a good example and I am sticking with it) is stronger than a Sodbuster. 

Before I start justifying my reasoning by talking about those who buy Strider knives, why there is so much comprehensive testing into lock strengths, why there is such a variety in blade thicknesses, why some FRN handles have additional steel liners etc etc (all of those are regarding "strength" BTW), I think I need to ask you a question first.

You said earlier how a Sodbuster and an ALOX SAK would be regarded as being 2 of the strongest out there, but what is it specifically about those 2 that made you chose them?  You must have seen elements of "strength" in those 2 that made you select them, but why when like you say, a blade isn't for prying, twisting etc but just for cutting?

[LatinoHeat]

O.k., I'll give you an example.  It might not be the best example, but here goes.  I used to own a Cold Steel Vaquero.  Loved the blade shape, grip, and what not.  Also had a Benchmade something or other (I wasn't that into knives back then where I cared about the names).  They both were hardy knives.  However, they both suffered from the same affliction that I just nuts about.  After using them for a while, just for everyday stuff, they got all loose.  Meaning they developed big time blade wobble.  They didn't open as stiffly as they used to.  They got a little rattly in the pocket.  In short, they just didn't exhude enough confidence in me to use them too much because I was always afraid they would break.  Granted, I've had a ton of cheap China tacticals in my life as well, since, like I said, I didn't know any better in my youth.  But when these two much more expensive knives eventualy went the same way, I thought "Man, this sucks!!"  Now, again, this isn't a slipjoint vs. Tactical battle because I've had many slippies do the same.  However, out of all the knives I have ever owned, the Sodbuster and Alox SAK have NEVER loosened up, and I have done some heavy cutting with them.  By that I mean I have really bore down on them when cutting into something big.  And the Alox SAK I HAVE pryed with, since it has the other tools.  I have torqued the crap out of that thing, and it's hung tough.  When I think tough, these are the things I think about.  The pivot point.  The pins/screws.  Are they going to hold up.  Now, I never said these knives were BETTER then the Strider, for example, because I have never held a Strider.  I may hold one and think "Wow, this is a tough knife!!"  I was just mentioning them as strong knives, because they are probably the strongest folders I have ever owned.  The only thing I would trust more then a Soddie or Alox SAK (again, I said MORE, not equally) would be a fixed blade. 
Ok, shoot.

[Benner]

I wouldn't necessarily say that a loose blade is a weak one, IMO you can have blade play in any direction and still have an immensly strong knife.  But that is just an opinion thing.  Blade play annoys me, but (depending on just how much) it never concerns me with regards to strength.

You mentioned about the pivot area on the Sodbuster and the ALOX.  Granted they are both solid but the pivot area on a Chinook for example is probably 2-3 times the thickness of those and that is probably a good example of why I would personally not classify them in the same league.  Every element of most of the knives in this thread will nigh on be stronger or tougher or more overbuilt than both the ALOX and the Sodbuster, be it pivot area, blade thickness or handle and for me both what you mentioned would always be in the tough catergory for me, but will never even come close to something I personally would be regarding as "the strongest".

[LatinoHeat]

Remember, though, Big Ben, that bigger doesn't always mean stronger, as there are many different kinds of strength.  A strong knife to me has longevity.  It is built to last.  In many ways, strength and toughness go hand in hand.  Think of this, a big, thick, proud Oak tree is a strong tree.  A Willow tree maybe not so much.  However, in a blizzard, the thicker, stronger branches or the oak will eventually break under the weight of the falling snow, where as the more flexible willow will bend, releasing the snow, and snap back into place.  Like I said, there are many types of will.

[Benner]

Remember, though, Big Ben, that bigger doesn't always mean stronger, as there are many different kinds of strength.  A strong knife to me has longevity.  It is built to last.  In many ways, strength and toughness go hand in hand.  Think of this, a big, thick, proud Oak tree is a strong tree.  A Willow tree maybe not so much.  However, in a blizzard, the thicker, stronger branches or the oak will eventually break under the weight of the falling snow, where as the more flexible willow will bend, releasing the snow, and snap back into place.  Like I said, there are many types of will.

When we are talking about a pivot pin for example, yes I would say bigger or thicker is stronger, how can it not be?

[LatinoHeat]

Overly built sometimes means less flexibility.  Less flexibility means less give.  Less give equals more prone to breaking.  I'm just saying, there are many ways to determine strength.  I think the only way to decide this (as ANYTHING else is speculation) is to put some of these knives to various tests.  Put them in a variety of situations, make them cut a variety of materials, and see which one holds up best. 

[Benner]

Overly built sometimes means less flexibility.  Less flexibility means less give.  Less give equals more prone to breaking.  I'm just saying, there are many ways to determine strength.  I think the only way to decide this (as ANYTHING else is speculation) is to put some of these knives to various tests.  Put them in a variety of situations, make them cut a variety of materials, and see which one holds up best. 

You could test it, but IMO it would be a huge waste of time as there is just no competition, but hey, I don't think you are ever going to think otherwise and I don't think I will ever see how you can fathom that either an ALOX SAK or a Sodbuster could ever be regarded as one of the strongest when there are such knives as Chinooks, Striders and Extrema Ratio's (and many many more) available.

It is a wonder though how guys like Mick Strider are in business if all everyone ever needed was a Sodbuster  (joke).

[LatinoHeat]

Well, your joke has some validity.  Why would someone make anything else if there's already a sodbuster?  Think of this.  How do you reinvent the wheel?  You don't.  Yet people come out with different radials, different tire material, different sizes, but in the end, they all do the same thing.  Why would someone make something other then a sodbuster?  To make money.  Period.  The tactical market is relatively new in the knife world.  Fifteen, twenty years old?  It is made to attract a different demographic and a different taste in people.  Bells a whistles are added to these knives to sell them.  Rememberm though, everytime you add a bell, you need to make room for it, so something is compromised.
You keep saying a test isn't necessary.  How do you know?  How do you know one is tougher then another?  Weight?  Size?  What can it do that a soddie can't?  Your answer is still vague.  If you ask me, it can do NOTHING a soddie can do.  What can it do?  I'm asking because I want to know where your thought process is so we can better discuss this.  A Strider can do nothing that a Pioneer can't, but a Pioneer can do more then the Strider.  Ok, forget SAKs.  Not the best blade steel and not a good example of a "knife" as it is more of a tool.  Let's just leave it at a Sodbuster, since it has been the example for my side of the argument.  What can a Strider do that a Sodbuster can't?  Where and how does the toughness figure into the equation.  You say thicker pivot points and what not.  How does that make it tougher.  In what function or what scenerio would it make a difference?  In what situation will a soddie fail as opposed to a Strider?  How does all this affect performance?
It's like asking what will burst a bubble better.  Your hands, or two eighteen wheel trucks colliding together?
It's really a moot point.

[Nikos]

I guess the OP was about the "most overbuilt folding knife"; perhaps a thread title change would clear this up.

Anyway...

What can a Strider do that a Sodbuster can't?  Where and how does the toughness figure into the equation.  You say thicker pivot points and what not.  How does that make it tougher.  In what function or what scenerio would it make a difference?  In what situation will a soddie fail as opposed to a Strider?  How does all this affect performance?

Stubbing something hard would be a good test case. Sodbusters would probably fail as they're non-locking, so you need an overbuilt lock to go past that milestone. Stubbing with some lateral bias (i.e. the knife not being exactly vertical to the stubbed surface) would also call for some nice, fat, high-carbon blade,  overbuilt pivots, and sturdy scales or liners. Since we're in the locking league, let's go one step further and add battoning to the test array. Some lock types would also fail, so... you get the picture I guess.

Disclaimer: I still can't understand why a hard-use folder would cost that much money that people would think twice before even taking it off of  its shelf.

[Paul]

What's a 'sodbuster'?


Pic anyone?