What would you regard as being the strongest folding knife?

[LatinoHeat]

I guess the OP was about the "most overbuilt folding knife"; perhaps a thread title change would clear this up.

Anyway...

What can a Strider do that a Sodbuster can't?  Where and how does the toughness figure into the equation.  You say thicker pivot points and what not.  How does that make it tougher.  In what function or what scenerio would it make a difference?  In what situation will a soddie fail as opposed to a Strider?  How does all this affect performance?

Stubbing something hard would be a good test case. Sodbusters would probably fail as they're non-locking, so you need an overbuilt lock to go past that milestone. Stubbing with some lateral bias (i.e. the knife not being exactly vertical to the stubbed surface) would also call for some nice, fat, high-carbon blade,  overbuilt pivots, and sturdy scales or liners. Since we're in the locking league, let's go one step further and add battoning to the test array. Some lock types would also fail, so... you get the picture I guess.

Disclaimer: I still can't understand why a hard-use folder would cost that much money that people would think twice before even taking it off of  its shelf.

I have stabbed and battonned with a sodbuster before.  It takes a little more care (something that should used when doing anything with ANY knife, locking or not), but it can be done.  My knife was fine.  I've used mine out in the woods, at work, when I worked in an alligator park and there were tons of opportunities for me to use it and use it hard.  I have used it as a makeshift hammer.  I HAVE pryed with it (something one shouldn't do with ANY knife), and a variety of other tortures.  This is why I used it as an example of a tough knife.  It is a tough knife, up to just about any task I can imagine a knife is up for.

[LatinoHeat]

What's a 'sodbuster'?


Pic anyone?

This is a sodbuster.



There's also this Stainless steel black handled one.  I've had and used both.  Prefer the yellow handled CV steel one.

[Benner]

Well, your joke has some validity.  Why would someone make anything else if there's already a sodbuster?  Think of this.  How do you reinvent the wheel?  You don't.  Yet people come out with different radials, different tire material, different sizes, but in the end, they all do the same thing.  Why would someone make something other then a sodbuster?  To make money.  Period.  The tactical market is relatively new in the knife world.  Fifteen, twenty years old?  It is made to attract a different demographic and a different taste in people.  Bells a whistles are added to these knives to sell them.  Rememberm though, everytime you add a bell, you need to make room for it, so something is compromised.
You keep saying a test isn't necessary.  How do you know?  How do you know one is tougher then another?  Weight?  Size?  What can it do that a soddie can't?  Your answer is still vague.  If you ask me, it can do NOTHING a soddie can do.  What can it do?  I'm asking because I want to know where your thought process is so we can better discuss this.  A Strider can do nothing that a Pioneer can't, but a Pioneer can do more then the Strider.  Ok, forget SAKs.  Not the best blade steel and not a good example of a "knife" as it is more of a tool.  Let's just leave it at a Sodbuster, since it has been the example for my side of the argument.  What can a Strider do that a Sodbuster can't?  Where and how does the toughness figure into the equation.  You say thicker pivot points and what not.  How does that make it tougher.  In what function or what scenerio would it make a difference?  In what situation will a soddie fail as opposed to a Strider?  How does all this affect performance?
It's like asking what will burst a bubble better.  Your hands, or two eighteen wheel trucks colliding together?
It's really a moot point.

Wow, where to start.    I think I'll break this down into sections so it's clear what I am on about....

Well, your joke has some validity.  Why would someone make anything else if there's already a sodbuster?  Think of this.  How do you reinvent the wheel?  You don't.  Yet people come out with different radials, different tire material, different sizes, but in the end, they all do the same thing.  Why would someone make something other then a sodbuster?  To make money.  Period.

Your thought here is interesting, yet you probably won't be surprised that I disagree.    The whole wheel/tyre thing is a good example to use. Where you say that "in the end they do the same thing", do they?  So when I go to my local kwikfit (tyre place here in the UK) the budget ones do the exact same at the premium brands do they?  No.  While they both will get you from A-B, the "premium" one is likely to have better traction in differing conditions so will stop quicker and is probably less likely to blow out.  So no they are not the same, whilst fundamentaly they do the same thing, one is the safer option and arguably "better" suited for the job.  This is part of the reason why development in knives (and anything really) continues, to find that "better" suited product for given situations.  Take snow chains for example.  They are still part of a wheel and will still rotate round taking a car from A-B, but in the snow they are far better than slicks.  This is how I see this "debate" as I see one knife being far better at the point asked than the other.

The tactical market is relatively new in the knife world.  Fifteen, twenty years old?  It is made to attract a different demographic and a different taste in people.  Bells a whistles are added to these knives to sell them.  Rememberm though, everytime you add a bell, you need to make room for it, so something is compromised.


Bells and whistles do attract people to go buy them and I myself am one of these as I have far more tactical than traditional knives.  However, no I don't think that everytime you add a bell something else is compromised.  What is compromised by adding a larger pivot?  What is compromised by using a G10 or similar synthetic material over wood for example?  I agree some additions do have drawbacks elsewhere, like a fancy steel may have better edge holding but is more difficult to sharpen, but quite a few changes can be made that improve and only improve.

You keep saying a test isn't necessary.  How do you know?  How do you know one is tougher then another?  Weight?  Size?

Because taking the Chinook and the Sodbuster for example, what could possibly be weaker on the Chinook?  The blade is thicker and stronger, the pivot is larger, the liners are thicker and the handle consists of a far stronger material.  I fail to see what there is to test as every part on the Chinook is just ridiculously overbuilt comparted to that of a Sodbuster.

What can it do that a soddie can't?  Your answer is still vague.  If you ask me, it can do NOTHING a soddie can do.  What can it do?  I'm asking because I want to know where your thought process is so we can better discuss this.  A Strider can do nothing that a Pioneer can't, but a Pioneer can do more then the Strider.  Ok, forget SAKs.  Not the best blade steel and not a good example of a "knife" as it is more of a tool.  Let's just leave it at a Sodbuster, since it has been the example for my side of the argument.  What can a Strider do that a Sodbuster can't?

Apart from survive longer in abusive situations, nothing, but that wasn't my question, I simply asked which was strongest, not, which could do the most.  That question is pointless as well all know that when it comes to function no knife will ever beat a SAK.

Where and how does the toughness figure into the equation.

It doesn't and I never said it did.  In normal cutting tasks there will be marginal differences, but that's not what I asked, I wanted to find out what was regarded as being the strongest folding knife, and considering that the majority of knives will perform cutting purposes absolutely fine (that is what they are made for after all) I was going beyond the typical cutting tasks and wanted to find out about those exceptional knives.

What can a Strider do that a Sodbuster can't?  Where and how does the toughness figure into the equation.  You say thicker pivot points and what not.  How does that make it tougher.  In what function or what scenerio would it make a difference?  In what situation will a soddie fail as opposed to a Strider?  How does all this affect performance?

I suppose I have covered this above, but a Strider would survive longer than a Sodbuster when pushed to the limit and that is exactly what I wanted to know.  When testing an items strength when you are keen to find out how strong it goes, do you just test it up to normal working conditions? No, you go beyond to find out just how strong it is and it was those I am interested in.  Take watches for example, mine is rated to go 150metres below sea level.  Will I ever do this?  No.  But it's nice to know that I am safe to use it in the kitchen sink.

It's like asking what will burst a bubble better.  Your hands, or two eighteen wheel trucks colliding together?
It's really a moot point.

The trucks clearly. 

[Benner]

What's a 'sodbuster'?


Pic anyone?

This is a sodbuster.

(Image removed from quote.)

There's also this Stainless steel black handled one.  I've had and used both.  Prefer the yellow handled CV steel one.

They are actually very nice knives and I would love to get a Jr one one day.

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

I'm sorry LH but how the hell can a knife that is dimentionally and materially superiour in every concievable way be directly comparable to a basic knife like a Sak or Soddie

I really can't see what you basing your arguement on

[LatinoHeat]

Strength is a relative term.  Who's stronger, the most powerful weightlifter in the world, or a gymnast?  Well, I have yet to see a powerlifter who can do a handstand push up, you figure with all their strength, theyd be able to push up 200 pounds, no?
No.
A gymnast can do just about anything with their body.
So, a Gymnast can out lift a weightlifter.  And no, size is irrelevant in this scenerio, because while a gymnast is about 100 - 200 pounds lighter then a powerlifter, powerlifters can lift WAY more then a gymnast.
Strength is relative.
Why is it that I can pull a two hundred pound alligator out of the water with ease, something American football players, wrestlers, and Shaquille Oneil can't do, and not break a sweat, yet I can't carry my daughter for more then twenty minutes without having to switch arms, while my wife can carry her on one arm for hours at a time?
But I am stronger then my wife?
Hmmmmm.
there's alot of intangibles when it comes to strength.  Strength is a multifaceted thing.  To say "this knife is stronger" is flawed, because HOW is it stronger.  How do you know a Strider will last longer then a Soddie?  I am of the opposite mindset.  I feel that it's a no brainer that if you give me a Strider, or Chinook, and a Sodbuster, and I work them the same for years and years, that the knife I will be handing my kid when he's old enough will be the soddie, because the others will be in pieces.  To me, that's a no brainer.  Benner, you said you asked which is the strongest folder.
Strongest in what way?
Put it this way, there are examples of sodbuster type knives found in civil war battlefields, at some museum apparently (not sure where I read that), and people on forums go on all the time about sodbusters and related knives that their grandfathers gave them.  Knives that are 80 years old or more.  these knives are still in pristine condition.
Will we see an 80 year old Chinook?  I doubt it. 
If not function, how else are we going to measure a knife's strength?  Put a strap to it and see if it can carry a car before it bends?  That's silly. 
Mike, basic doesn't mean inferior, whether it's quality or strength.  Often times, basic is the way to go.  Which is a stronger phone, an old wheel based telephone that worked with a landline, or a new I-phone?  Well, the I-phone has the latest technology, is made of poly something or other, has the best graphics, the coolest features, etc.  However, drop one and could be done.  Listen to the caller on one and the sound is ok.  Get those old land line phones and drop them from your roof.  It'll still work.  Listen to the sound of the other person.  Crystal clear.
Toughness?  I don't see the comparison either.  Simple and strong wins every time.
Sorry guys.  Just lessons I have learned first hand over the years. 

[LatinoHeat]

I really can't see what you basing your arguement on

Real world use, which is the ONLY thing you can base it on.  Practical, hands on experience.  Give me a soddie, and throw me into any situation, and it'll work as well as the Chinooks.  No worries, no problems.

[Benner]

I would reply but I would only be repeating myself.  I think we may just have to move on from this (although it's been fun  ) discussion as I can't add any more to this argument and I don't feel I need to.  One (although not in your opinion) is so clearly stronger than the other that for me I've said enough.  Will there be Chinooks in 80 years?  Of course there will and you would be daft thinking that there wouldn't be.

One thing I will say though is take a look back through this thread and see what has been recommended so far.  The vast majority are of my "type" of knife as that is what everyone is agreeing on being a strong folder.  I feel that as the argument stands you need to be convincing the majority your thoughts rather than the other way around.

[LatinoHeat]

Yeah, this is just going around in circles.  And no, I have no intention of convincing anyone of anything.  I was defending my thoughts and my side of the argument.  You think your knife is stronger?  Good for you.  Use the crap out of it.  We'll log back on here when we are 80 (I'll be in my 90s, though, and might not be able to type anymore) and we'll see which one held up.  If I ever visit Your part of the world, or you mine, we can agree to meet up one foggy morning, and duel it out, you with your Chinook, and me with my Sodbuster.  And after I kick your a$$, I'll take on Mike.  Then I will be LORD OF THE SPAMMERS!!!!!!!!!  
LOL.
Seriously, though, I agree, this has run it's course.  That's the beauty of knives, though.  There's a style and design for everyone.  You want to use a Benchmade or Spyderco, by all means.  When you grow up and turn to big boy knives like a sodbuster, you can do that as well.  LOL.  (Gratuitous cheap shot thrown in there just because.)  
I'm just playing.  Like I said, it was never my intention to sell you guys on Slipjoints or bring you over to this side.  We are ALL on the same side, and that's the non cutting side of the edge.  Like I said, different strokes for different folks.  Carry what you like, and use it hard.  As long as it works for you, it is the best knife in the world.
Enjoy your knives guys.
 

[Benner]

You don't need to sell me on slippies as I am already sold.    I just don't think they have a place in this discussion (but lets not go there again  ).

BTW, in a duel I would win as I would throw the Chinook at you and it's sheer mass would cause some serious damage. 

[LatinoHeat]

You don't need to sell me on slippies as I am already sold.    I just don't think they have a place in this discussion (but lets not go there again  ).

BTW, in a duel I would win as I would throw the Chinook at you and it's sheer mass would cause some serious damage. 

This is true.
However, it's over sized and strong pivot points would make it visible from a mile away.  Plus it's thick, making it not too aerodynamic, and giving me ample time to dodge it, Matrix style, and release the thousands of wooden daggers I whittled with my Soddie.

LOL.  Here we go again!!

[Spork, Lord of Lime Jello!]

I've never seen Benner type so much or stay on topic this long before...it's frightening me 

[Paul]

I'm just glad to have learned what a 'soddie' is......looks a nice bit of kit BTW thanks for the pic 

[ringzero]

Yeah, this is just going around in circles.  And no, I have no intention of convincing anyone of anything.  I was defending my thoughts and my side of the argument.  You think your knife is stronger?  Good for you.  Use the crap out of it.  We'll log back on here when we are 80 (I'll be in my 90s, though, and might not be able to type anymore) and we'll see which one held up.  If I ever visit Your part of the world, or you mine, we can agree to meet up one foggy morning, and duel it out, you with your Chinook, and me with my Sodbuster.  And after I kick your a$$, I'll take on Mike.  Then I will be LORD OF THE SPAMMERS!!!!!!!!!  
LOL.

This is what you guys have been avoiding during this whole long discussion.  ;>

Manix is rated by Spyderco as one of the toughest knives it makes.  Manix gets the MBC classification, which is Spyderco's top ranking for strength and toughness at the top of the four categories that Spyderco uses IIRC.

MBC stands for "martial blade craft" and not many Spyderco knives get this ranking.

Folders intended for use as weapons should have tougher blades and locks.

During a knife fight, a folder's lock could wind up being torqued hard in unusual ways:
-huge impulsive forces on the spine of the blade
-blade may be twisted around its longitudinal axis
-big impulsive forces applied to tip which pushes the blade against pivot and lockbar

Most folders won't stand up as well as Manix to the unusual impulsive forces and torques that might be encountered in a knife fight.

.

[Paul]

Touch our Mikey LatinoHeat, and you have to deal with me!!   OK?




 

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Thanks for the backup

That Benchie really is gorgeous

[hawkchucker]

OK simple the toughest folder ouot there is either the Strider(god it hurt typing that) or the ZT line. Simply put they are the toughest overbuilt tools out there.