Australian Knife Laws

[SurgeUk]

I know we rarely have to moderate things but that last post (after being warned) by Valkie (and ThisAlarm7 because he had quoted part of that post) was passing the line to much and is now gone 

This is a thread about knife laws not guns. (Plenty of people on both sides of that argument and we will leave it be at that) We need to keep it in a friendly tone, leaving our personal feelings and politics completely out of the thread or it will be locked.

Sorry to have to be harsh but we have had more than a couple of posts to keep this thread on topic

I was wavering on this (based upon freedom of speech etc..) However, this is a non-political forum and MUST remain so, for the benefit of awl. 

As much as I sympathise with others (from various parts of the globe) I don't want to be forced to close something down as my first act as a Mod (apart from removing spurious requests to join MTO) but I WILL!!!

A) Opinons; Yes (subject to "B" below)
B) Politics; No

Please keep this on track & look out for each other.

We have enough enemies out there without falling out with each other 

Peace. Out 

[Fireman]

We have confusing layers of knife laws as well.  My state allows carry of knives, including "common pocket knives."  However, to carry one concealed (not including the common pocket knife) you need a concealed weapons permit.  However, the knife part of the state CWP doesn't preempt county/city laws.  Make sense?    

If I carry a SAK in my pocket, good to go.
If I carry a knife clipped in my pocket, good to go.
If I carry a sheath knife openly, good to go.
If I have a CWP I can carry a knife (of nearly any kind) concealed on my person. 
If I go to Miami, I cannot carry certain knives that are legal in my home city/county even though I have a CWP.

Solution: don't go to Miami.    

[Farmer X]

Solution: don't go to Miami.   

Thanks for the advice/warning! Last I heard, Philadelphia essentially banned public carry of any knife, making it another place I'd avoid. I may not have it great, but it could awlways be worse.

[BPRoberts]

As written that is true. I will say I used to live near the city and something small like an SAK never caused any issues. Got checked at a Phillies game once, forgot I had it, and I didn't even have to take it back to the car.

[Valkie]

Well, it happened, I was approached by the police to check me out at a cafe the other day.

I had me Victornox pouch on my belt, but I took out the knife and left it in my car, I am still edgy about wearing it in public.

The cops saw the bulge in my shirt at the belt and approached me as If I was an axe murderer.
One with his hand on his tazer and the other standing behind me.
At first, I wondered what they wanted, and then one demanded I stan against a car so he could undertake a concealed weapons check.
He asked if I was carrying a knife or weapon, I said no.
He then got all official and stated that he could see the knife (not pouch) on my belt.
I said he could have a look, it was empty.

He checked it, then did a body search and asked why I had the pouch on my belt.
I said I usually carry a tool at work, but as I was in public and now that we have draconian laws and SS enforcement, I thought it prudent to remove the tool while I was getting my lunch.
He wasn't happy, took my name and said that I shouldn't wear a "sheath" if I didn't want to be arrested.

I thought of several comebacks, but sensibly just let it be.
No point in giving him a reason to get nasty.

Sadly, this wasn't in a major city, or even a big town, just a little town on the outskirts of Newcastle.
I don't think anything will come of it, But the fact that he took down my name was concerning.

So be warned,
A 65 year old, limping, old fart, with a walking cane, is considered a danger to the public in Australia.

[Echotech]

shakes head in dismay

[damiross]

A 65 year old, limping, old fart, with a walking cane, is considered a danger to the public in Australia.

My God! Why do they even allow you in public? 

[Huntsman]

shakes head in dismay

 
Absolutely unbelievable - So it's illegal to carry an empty sheath?         - I think that cop needs to check the law

A belt pouch/sheath could be used for anything - Mobile phone, regular screwdriver, non-knife EDC stuff - pens etc

And sounds like overzealous policing - Maybe their attitude/aggression was due to the fact they thought they had copped you -
But you were totally within the law - So they were pissed off.

Although I must admit I do avoid wearing a sheath - and pocket carry my SAK every day
- Although a few times I have nipped off to Bunnings (≡ Home Depot) on a DIY weekend - and I sometimes have my Spirit on my belt -
Better watch out    

[Kev D]

I have found it varies with the police officer in my town in the UK.  Some stick to the law rigidly and others have a common sense approach.

I've had warnings for using my bacho laplander and a multitool "in public" before in both cases clearing partially broken off branches that were blocking the path along the river where I used to walk my dogs.  Both times from mounted police exercising their horses, and I've also had a nice conversation with officers over my multitool versus the one they were carrying over the virtues and drawback to each. 

Our laws are as mad as Australia's but I still carry a manager on my keys, and usually a sak in my pocket, or more occasionally nowadays a multitool, and I have both a multitool and a vic rescue tool in my car.  One day I may fall foul of an over zealous officer but as many have said, its a tool and in my eyes will always be so and that is what I have always used them as.  The amount of time the swisschamp pliers have been useful to pull trolley coins out of trolleys to allow me to get one is staggering, or retrieve one out for an old dear.   

[Huntsman]

Hey Kev - Nice to hear from you - Have not seen any of your posts for a while

[pfrsantos]

Well, it happened, I was approached by the police to check me out at a cafe the other day.

I had me Victornox pouch on my belt, but I took out the knife and left it in my car, I am still edgy about wearing it in public.

The cops saw the bulge in my shirt at the belt and approached me as If I was an axe murderer.
One with his hand on his tazer and the other standing behind me.
At first, I wondered what they wanted, and then one demanded I stan against a car so he could undertake a concealed weapons check.
He asked if I was carrying a knife or weapon, I said no.
He then got all official and stated that he could see the knife (not pouch) on my belt.
I said he could have a look, it was empty.

He checked it, then did a body search and asked why I had the pouch on my belt.
I said I usually carry a tool at work, but as I was in public and now that we have draconian laws and SS enforcement, I thought it prudent to remove the tool while I was getting my lunch.
He wasn't happy, took my name and said that I shouldn't wear a "sheath" if I didn't want to be arrested.

I thought of several comebacks, but sensibly just let it be.
No point in giving him a reason to get nasty.

Sadly, this wasn't in a major city, or even a big town, just a little town on the outskirts of Newcastle.
I don't think anything will come of it, But the fact that he took down my name was concerning.

So be warned,
A 65 year old, limping, old fart, with a walking cane, is considered a danger to the public in Australia.

You're a better man than I am (which is not difficult). I'd make a point to go to that same place at that same hour, with a different empty sheath every day. When I see that cop again, I'd lean back and make my Dirty Harry impression:

"I know what you're thinking. Is he carrying a knife or not? Well, since this is a knife sheath, you only have to ask yourself a question: do I feel lucky?"

[pfrsantos]

Hey Kev - Nice to hear from you - Have not seen any of your posts for a while

+1

 

[Kev D]

Thanks guys 

[Aloha]

So he missed the sword in the cane then?  .

[pfrsantos]

So he missed the sword in the cane then?  .

And the boot knife too, apparently...

 

[nate j]

Well, it happened, I was approached by the police to check me out at a cafe the other day.

I had me Victornox pouch on my belt, but I took out the knife and left it in my car, I am still edgy about wearing it in public.

The cops saw the bulge in my shirt at the belt and approached me as If I was an axe murderer.
One with his hand on his tazer and the other standing behind me.
At first, I wondered what they wanted, and then one demanded I stan against a car so he could undertake a concealed weapons check.
He asked if I was carrying a knife or weapon, I said no.
He then got all official and stated that he could see the knife (not pouch) on my belt.
I said he could have a look, it was empty.

He checked it, then did a body search and asked why I had the pouch on my belt.
I said I usually carry a tool at work, but as I was in public and now that we have draconian laws and SS enforcement, I thought it prudent to remove the tool while I was getting my lunch.
He wasn't happy, took my name and said that I shouldn't wear a "sheath" if I didn't want to be arrested.

I thought of several comebacks, but sensibly just let it be.
No point in giving him a reason to get nasty.

Sadly, this wasn't in a major city, or even a big town, just a little town on the outskirts of Newcastle.
I don't think anything will come of it, But the fact that he took down my name was concerning.

So be warned,
A 65 year old, limping, old fart, with a walking cane, is considered a danger to the public in Australia.

This just makes me sad, and I don’t even live in Australia.

Stand up for your rights, folks, or you will have none.

Maybe their attitude/aggression was due to the fact they thought they had copped you -
But you were totally within the law - So they were pissed off.

Probably some truth there.

[Sea Monster]

Well, it happened, I was approached by the police to check me out at a cafe the other day.

I had me Victornox pouch on my belt, but I took out the knife and left it in my car, I am still edgy about wearing it in public.

The cops saw the bulge in my shirt at the belt and approached me as If I was an axe murderer.
One with his hand on his tazer and the other standing behind me.
At first, I wondered what they wanted, and then one demanded I stan against a car so he could undertake a concealed weapons check.
He asked if I was carrying a knife or weapon, I said no.
He then got all official and stated that he could see the knife (not pouch) on my belt.
I said he could have a look, it was empty.

He checked it, then did a body search and asked why I had the pouch on my belt.
I said I usually carry a tool at work, but as I was in public and now that we have draconian laws and SS enforcement, I thought it prudent to remove the tool while I was getting my lunch.
He wasn't happy, took my name and said that I shouldn't wear a "sheath" if I didn't want to be arrested.

I thought of several comebacks, but sensibly just let it be.
No point in giving him a reason to get nasty.

Sadly, this wasn't in a major city, or even a big town, just a little town on the outskirts of Newcastle.
I don't think anything will come of it, But the fact that he took down my name was concerning.

So be warned,
A 65 year old, limping, old fart, with a walking cane, is considered a danger to the public in Australia.

Christ in a cream cheese sauce.

We all know just about any sharp is illegal in vic, nsw, and other select nanny states, buts is always been an "add on " offence that they pin on you if they're also getting you for selling drugs or assault or whatever. If the cops are not getting the brief that you don't randomly search people (even if they technically legally can, for our safety.....) We might need to have a word.

I believe the nsw minister for police lives just south of Newcastle. Might be worth contacting her office.

[King_Gorilla]

It's troubling to hear that you have to deal with so many restrictive laws.  I am constantly frustrated with the laws in my country but they are not nearly as difficult as what you are describing. 

There is so much more I feel like commenting on but I feel like it's already been said by others. 

I hope it somehow turns around in a more logical direction. 

[damiross]

With all of the knife restrictions and gun laws, I do believe the state and federal governments in Australia have eliminated all violent crimes in Australia.

[Sea Monster]

With all of the knife restrictions and gun laws, I do believe the state and federal governments in Australia have eliminated all violent crimes in Australia.

Is this your learned opinion, or bait?

There's quite a bit more the governments do to reduce violent crimes - limits on glass, alcohol access for domestic violence offenders, severe penalties for 'coward punches" and other assaults, heavy use of high res security cameras in public areas, etc.


All of those are outside the scope of this forum though, and for the most part don't affect people trying to purchase an almond croissant and an ice coffee with a Swiss army knife on their belt.

[nate j]

Is this your learned opinion, or bait?

I would guess sarcasm

[gregozedobe]

 
Absolutely unbelievable - So it's illegal to carry an empty sheath?         - I think that cop needs to check the law

A belt pouch/sheath could be used for anything - Mobile phone, regular screwdriver, non-knife EDC stuff - pens etc

And sounds like overzealous policing - Maybe their attitude/aggression was due to the fact they thought they had copped you -
But you were totally within the law - So they were pissed off.

Although I must admit I do avoid wearing a sheath - and pocket carry my SAK every day
- Although a few times I have nipped off to Bunnings (≡ Home Depot) on a DIY weekend - and I sometimes have my Spirit on my belt -
Better watch out   

I agree, sounds like an over-zealous LEO was annoyed that his easyand obvious collar turned out to be completely legal after all.

I guess if I ever get a similar over-zealous LEO  I might be in actual trouble if they ask me to empty my pockets, as I usually EDC an LM P4 in a pocket, and we all know what a dangerous big knife blade they have ...   

[Valkie]

My God! Why do they even allow you in public? 

They shouldnt, I should be locked up in a resort somewhere so I can live out my life in lixury.

[Valkie]

 
Absolutely unbelievable - So it's illegal to carry an empty sheath?         - I think that cop needs to check the law

A belt pouch/sheath could be used for anything - Mobile phone, regular screwdriver, non-knife EDC stuff - pens etc

And sounds like overzealous policing - Maybe their attitude/aggression was due to the fact they thought they had copped you -
But you were totally within the law - So they were pissed off.

Although I must admit I do avoid wearing a sheath - and pocket carry my SAK every day
- Although a few times I have nipped off to Bunnings (≡ Home Depot) on a DIY weekend - and I sometimes have my Spirit on my belt -
Better watch out   

Yeah, I don't know what was on his (their) minds.
I don't look mean, yes I'm ugly but that shouldn't count.
Perhaps they were just having a bad day.

I had to laugh at a facebook post the other day.
In a certain country town, kids of a particular brand are wandering around carrying machete while attempting to break into people's cars
But no one seems to see that as a major issue.
But I cant carry a pocket knife.

[Valkie]

So he missed the sword in the cane then?  .

Yeah...Na.
That would get me a quick trip to the cells.
My cane is a standard cane that old farts like me need to overcome my vertigo.

I pose a real and present danger to everyone around me at my age.

[Valkie]

With all of the knife restrictions and gun laws, I do believe the state and federal governments in Australia have eliminated all violent crimes in Australia.

Most of the laws I can live with, although its getting so that even taking a deep breath is a crime in Australia.

But fortunately, the majority of "Authority" figures have at least some semblance of common sense and logic.

For example, the water authority in Australia is called Maritime Authority cops a load of flack from boaters.
But in 99% of cases, its the boaters that dont know the rules and often break them.
Most of these rules are logic based and if ignored can lead to serious accidents and death.
But as a regular boater, I find their occasional review of my "Mandatory" gear polite and informed.
Even the one I had let my life jacket inspection miss by a couple of months, it was only a " better see to that" not a fine.

Most general duties cops have been polite and easy to get on with, although there have been exceptions.

I'm putting the whole incident down to "having a bad day" for the cops.
But be aware that the cops in Australia seem to be less tolerant, less obliging and less personable than any I have met in just about every other country I have visited.

[gregozedobe]

Most general duties cops have been polite and easy to get on with, although there have been exceptions.

I'm putting the whole incident down to "having a bad day" for the cops.
But be aware that the cops in Australia seem to be less tolerant, less obliging and less personable than any I have met in just about every other country I have visited.

I have zero problems with Aussie cops, but admittedly these days I don't give them any reasons to single me out for special attention.  The last few decades it has only been random roadside breath tests, and as I don't drink (nor do I look like someone that might take drugs) all my interactions have been very smooth and easy.   When I was young and foolish (don't they always seem to go together ?) my speeding did sometimes attract unwanted attention.

[Vidar]

Here in Norway I think the actual practice has become more restrictive the latter years. There is blanket bans for certain types of knives and the like which are deemed to have no civil purpose, but for the rest it should be enough with a good reason for the carry.

However, while it used to be add-on charges, or used against people who clearly had no sensible cause for carrying a knife (self-defense not being one), these days some police seem to have lost the plot. From the top of my head I can remember reading about people being fined for having a knife in their car, workers not removing their knifes from their tool belts before having lunch in public, and my favourite the man using a multitool in public to slice an apple.

The latter is my favourite as he refused to accept any fine and took it all the way to the court - and he won! So while some police might have lost their way at least some judges still care to use common sense as per premise of the law.

(I'm old enough to remember the time when a fair chunk of the population were issued and stored automatic assault rifles, submachine guns, and some even bigger stuff at home. The world is certainly changing as knives now seem to be the new redline..)

[Aloha]

Its always interesting to hear about experiences outside of California.  I used to think our laws were pretty restrictive here in my city.  When I began to carry a dedicated knife I looked into the laws and did/do my best to adhere.  My partners son is LEO as well as many friends of mine.  I say this because each LEO will bring to the job their personality.  That said, I am of the belief courtesy is always our best foot forward in any dealings with LEO.  I have never been subject of search nor do I expect I will tho one never knows. 

If we know the laws of our jurisdiction and choose to carry contrary to it, we then could face consequences.  I'm also of the belief the "fight" is not with the boots on the ground but further up the "ladder".  I am trying to stay on the outskirts of a political conversation but y'all know what I am saying.   

Any energy spent in my opinion should be spent on rallying for changes where it really matters.  I have read about cases here in California where people have chose to challenge those boots on the ground ( by carrying a certain knife ) and then taking on the courts and winning.  Thats a cost I cannot afford financially.  I applaud those who can.  Truth is tho, it made little difference in the law written.  Not sure how that works tho?   

Whats unfortunate to me are those who vilify the tool rather than the person who uses the tool for bad purposes. 

This topic is a hard one for me.  As someone who enjoys carrying multiple sharps I'd be saddened if that was taken or strongly restricted. 

Thank you all who have posted.       

[Vidar]

I'm also of the belief the "fight" is not with the boots on the ground but further up the "ladder".

Depends on how the law is formulated. Over here the law requires the boots on the ground to make a judgement call. And I think that judgement has changed over the years. Here the law itself hasn't changed so that can't be the reason for the stricter policy - rather it seems like a wanted reinterpretation of that law by the boots or higher ups. But here that reinterpretation has not been done by the politicians as the law is unchanged. Thus people have to turn to the courts to have them draw the lines for where the room for reinterpretation stops.

I have read about cases here in California where people have chose to challenge those boots on the ground ( by carrying a certain knife ) and then taking on the courts and winning.  Thats a cost I cannot afford financially.  I applaud those who can.  Truth is tho, it made little difference in the law written.  Not sure how that works tho?

When people are winning over the boots on the ground in court that means the people was within their rights and that the boots judgement and interpretation of the law was wrong. Over here at least that should lead to the police adjusting their understanding and policy to be in line with the courts officially given interpretation.