Are modders heretics?

[Simon_Templar]

I´m just thinking about the PX. A lot of PX´s were made by modders before Victorinox noticed there was a market for it. Were these modders really heretics? I´d rather call them visionaries.

To that I say: Victorinox moves in a mysterious way. Why were the 84 mm scissors discontinued? Why did the 58mm combo tool never make it to the 74 mm line? Why didn't Victorinox bring scissors to 93 mm SAKs decades ago? If only we knew, we might be closer to understanding how the universe works. But we don't, and why not accept it with humility? Victorinox giveth and Victorinox taketh away. This is the way. 

[Helvetica Bold]

Much as others have said for me a mod does feels like a mod and an official model somehow feels ‘real’. I’m carrying a mod at the moment though…..! I agree it’s a great thread that just highlights the rich diversity of the human condition :0)

Btw It might be just me but the new Vic package opener tool looks more like a mod to me than an official tool. It’s an  ‘orrible looking thing I’m my opinion and the chaps here have been putting an edge on the inside of the can opener for yonks giving a tool that offers similar functionality without losing the small driver and opener….!

[nate j]

The idea of modifying one’s tools/equipment to better suit need certainly goes as far back as mankind has been using tools.

Conceptually, I think it’s a good thing, as it allows folks to get something that better meets their needs.  Sometimes really useful and popular mods even make it into regular production (whether the manufacturer admits mods were the inspiration or not).


From a personal practical standpoint, however, I rarely if ever make major modifications.  We have so many good SAK, MT, knife, and tool options on the market today.  If I feel what I have is seriously deficient for my needs or a certain scenario, it probably makes more sense for me to just buy something (or some things) that come closer to what I want vs. trying to modify what I have.

The Pareto Principle also applies, i.e. if I can get off-the-shelf solutions that give me 80% - 90% of what I want, I’m probably not going to expend a large amount of time or money trying to get that last 10% - 20%.  To me, this is kind of the essence of SAKs/MTs anyway.  Clearly, there are inherent trade-offs for a small pocketable tool set vs. a large toolbox/bag/bucket.  It’s fun to have discussions about “What if you were stuck on a tropical island/on a mission to Mars/trying to survive TEOTWAWKI and you could only take one MT…”, but that doesn’t reflect reality for most people most of the time.  For me (and I think for most), the value of an MT is being able to take care of that loose screw, errant tree branch, jagged fingernail, stubborn bag of chips, etc. without having to go to the garage/kitchen/bathroom/truck/basement for a dedicated tool.  And if 90% of the time the SAK/MT can take care of those issues, and 10% of the time I have to go fetch a dedicated tool, I put that down as a huge win for the MT, not a deficiency because there were 10% of the tasks it couldn’t do.

[Simon_Templar]

It’s fun to have discussions about “What if you were stuck on a tropical island/on a mission to Mars/trying to survive TEOTWAWKI and you could only take one MT…”

I used to think so, until I realized the answer to any such question is invariably: " A Swisschamp".

[Simon_Templar]

Many Thank to ALL on MutiTool Forums!  

 

This forum really is a pleasant place.

[Helvetica Bold]

The idea of modifying one’s tools/equipment to better suit need certainly goes as far back as mankind has been using tools.

Conceptually, I think it’s a good thing, as it allows folks to get something that better meets their needs.  Sometimes really useful and popular mods even make it into regular production (whether the manufacturer admits mods were the inspiration or not).


From a personal practical standpoint, however, I rarely if ever make major modifications.  We have so many good SAK, MT, knife, and tool options on the market today.  If I feel what I have is seriously deficient for my needs or a certain scenario, it probably makes more sense for me to just buy something (or some things) that come closer to what I want vs. trying to modify what I have.

The Pareto Principle also applies, i.e. if I can get off-the-shelf solutions that give me 80% - 90% of what I want, I’m probably not going to expend a large amount of time or money trying to get that last 10% - 20%.  To me, this is kind of the essence of SAKs/MTs anyway.  Clearly, there are inherent trade-offs for a small pocketable tool set vs. a large toolbox/bag/bucket.  It’s fun to have discussions about “What if you were stuck on a tropical island/on a mission to Mars/trying to survive TEOTWAWKI and you could only take one MT…”, but that doesn’t reflect reality for most people most of the time.  For me (and I think for most), the value of an MT is being able to take care of that loose screw, errant tree branch, jagged fingernail, stubborn bag of chips, etc. without having to go to the garage/kitchen/bathroom/truck/basement for a dedicated tool.  And if 90% of the time the SAK/MT can take care of those issues, and 10% of the time I have to go fetch a dedicated tool, I put that down as a huge win for the MT, not a deficiency because there were 10% of the tasks it couldn’t do.

That, I guess, is why I carry a standard Manager on my keys have a Workchamp in the draw at home and take a Swiss Champ or Ranger camping… the modding, for me, started when I repaired an old explorer that I found in a toolbox in a terrible state - From there I think the relative ease of taking it apart and getting it back together and the ease of getting parts at a reasonable cost just got the juices going…

If it is your thing it’s quite a relaxing way to spend an evening …much the same as building an Airfix tank or plane might be. Most of mine are variations on a theme to be fair and I have hit on a couple that I feel are genuinely pretty good combinations.

Make no mistake though if I had a forge ( and considerably more skill) I would be making 14 inch Bowie’s though…not blades for my SAKs 

[Simon_Templar]

Circle back to what I said earlier, it is always about being happy.  If it makes you happy, go for it!

True, but can people always tell what would really make them happy? When you grew up in an economic system that's driven by consumption, as I assume many of us did, that's no easy feat. Personally, I don't think I can, yet. But I am confident I will eventually get there. Until then, I collect SAKs. 

[nate j]

I used to think so, until I realized the answer to any such question is invariably: " A Swisschamp".

Except when it is Swisstool, Spirit, or Surge… ;-)

[z1913]

To that I say: Victorinox moves in a mysterious way. Why were the 84 mm scissors discontinued? Why did the 58mm combo tool never make it to the 74 mm line? Why didn't Victorinox bring scissors to 93 mm SAKs decades ago? If only we knew, we might be closer to understanding how the universe works. But we don't, and why not accept it with humility? Victorinox giveth and Victorinox taketh away. This is the way. 

The true prophet has spoken! Excellent!

[MacGyver]

Well, here are my 2 cents...,

I love to watch the modders work and creativity, but it's just not for me realistically.
I'll make a slight tweak here and there on stuff if i need it to better suite my needs, depending on the object, but i really just use stuff "as is" in most cases.

Regarding SAK's..., i'll just use the standard models (with exception of filing off a key ring stud or two). Modded SAK's are great, but way more expensive than stock models, not easily replaceable at all, and requires skill and experience if you want to do it yourself.
There is no such thing as the "ideal/perfect" SAK, IMO. There is only the one you feel right at the time for what you anticipate needing, or just feel like carrying for variety's sake. Much more exciting and engaging finding creative ways to use what you have in your pocket for your immediate need, than chasing some unicorn SAK perfection that is impossible to find.
For me, realistically, in most situations my key ring minichamp and a Recruit (or similar SAK) will be more than enough for 95% of my needs, especially in urban/suburban environments.
Besides, if i lose or damage any, i like to know i can just get to the store (physical or on-line) and just order another exact unit/copy of that SAK

[Simon_Templar]

Much more exciting and engaging finding creative ways to use what you have in your pocket for your immediate need, than chasing some unicorn SAK perfection that is impossible to find.

  Be happy with what you get (especially if you know it to be of excellent quality, as in the case of any of Vic's SAK offerings) and make the best out of it.

[Helvetica Bold]

or not ….

[Aloha]

I´m just thinking about the PX. A lot of PX´s were made by modders before Victorinox noticed there was a market for it. Were these modders really heretics? I´d rather call them visionaries.

 

[Enginears]

Whether it was envisioning the PX, FX or forecasting the need for the 6 pack beer and beans  knife https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=5287.210
modders have been ahead of the Vic team. I mean they still haven’t caught up to some more advanced mods.

[pa_strunk]

Think a few of you non heretics should try some of these prefab kits off AliExpress. This 84 mm Yeoman (minus hook) has titanium scales and snaps like a factory production model. 

[Echotech]

Think a few of you non heretics should try some of these prefab kits off AliExpress. This 84 mm Yeoman (minus hook) has titanium scales and snaps like a factory production model.

That’s a beauty pa

[variable]

Think a few of you non heretics should try some of these prefab kits off AliExpress. This 84 mm Yeoman (minus hook) has titanium scales and snaps like a factory production model.

  &

[pa_strunk]

Thanks guys. My favorite thing about this forum is not showing my collections or mods, but seeing everyone else’s. One place on earth that true SAK mod heretics and non heretics  alike can inspire one another. 

[Rizio Il Ghiro]

  We’ll said, pa_strunk! 

[Tasky]

is modding wrong because the meaning of SAKs is to receive in humility what Victorinox giveth us and make the best out of it?

Were it the holy Victorinox would actually giveth me  the tool combo I want, I'd have no need to moddeth mine SAKKE....

[Helvetica Bold]

I would have to agree that the perfect SAK exists, at best, only in the moment or in a certain scenario. As stock Vic offerings go the Manager is hard to beat for urban everyday and the Ranger is pretty near perfect for out in the woods/camping purposes…It is the Champ that spoils it as that has everything that you could sensibly want/need in one package so everything else just falls short…I did manage to get the basic functionality of a champ into 5 layers instead of 8 so would have to say that’s about the most satisfactory reconfiguration I’ve achieved so far ….there are 3 or 4 others (based on a Ranger toolset) that I am happy with but generally I end up taking them apart again to make copies of discontinued  model which I often find more satisfying….except the Outdoorsman which I thought I liked initially but really didn’t in the end. So my ‘close enough’, I’d have to say, is a Ranger!

[Simon_Templar]

Were it the holy Victorinox would actually giveth me  the tool combo I want, I'd have no need to moddeth mine SAKKE....

Uh, no, quite the contrary actually. The idea is to humbly receive what Victorinox in their infinite wisdom have made and see that it is, behold, very good. Your argument is a  Promethean one, and we all know where that got him... Just sayin' 

[Simon_Templar]

I would have to agree that the perfect SAK exists, at best, only in the moment or in a certain scenario. As stock Vic offerings go the Manager is hard to beat for urban everyday and the Ranger is pretty near perfect for out in the woods/camping purposes…It is the Champ that spoils it as that has everything that you could sensibly want/need in one package so everything else just falls short…I did manage to get the basic functionality of a champ into 5 layers instead of 8 so would have to say that’s about the most satisfactory reconfiguration I’ve achieved so far ….there are 3 or 4 others (based on a Ranger toolset) that I am happy with but generally I end up taking them apart again to make copies of discontinued  model which I often find more satisfying….except the Outdoorsman which I thought I liked initially but really didn’t in the end. So my ‘close enough’, I’d have to say, is a Ranger!

So while trying to play god, you realized the error of your ways and now you try to recreate Vic's extinct creations instead? Sounds like the plot ot a Mary Shelley novel

P.S.: I agree the size-to-functionality ratio of the Manager/Rambler, Ranger and Swisschamp is hard to beat. They are like a SAK holy trinity

[Tasky]

Uh, no, quite the contrary actually. The idea is to humbly receive what Victorinox in their infinite wisdom have made and see that it is, behold, very good. Your argument is a  Promethean one, and we all know where that got him... Just sayin' 

That idea is flawed.
Wenger did already make the very best EDC knife, albeit imperfectly burdened with Evo scales. Victorinox then reproduced it in an inferior form and again included the Evo scales.
Since Vic actually make every tool I require, but simply have not put them all together in the one appropriately sized package - My modding is simply necessity.

[Simon_Templar]

Wenger did already make the very best EDC knife, albeit imperfectly burdened with Evo scales.

I wonder which model you have in mind? 

[Echotech]

My guesses - Evo 18 or 14

I don’t mind the scales personally but appreciate they’re not to everyone’s taste

[Helvetica Bold]

So while trying to play god, you realized the error of your ways and now you try to recreate Vic's extinct creations instead? Sounds like the plot ot a Mary Shelley novel

Mmmm kinda! With the occasional bit of  FrankenSAK serendipity….so not completely backtracking. This one for instance makes it all worth while for me and the black one I almost feel should be a production model!!!

[Helvetica Bold]

I wonder which model you have in mind? 

Yes, go on, you gotta spill the beans now…

[Helvetica Bold]

The thing in my  that is missing from far to much of the (smaller end at least) 91mm range is a file. I’m not talking the full on filesaw blade necessarily or the piddly file hook but just decent size rough area somewhere …there is a great mod on here somewhere that has a 58mm file set into a liner to give a rough area behind the corkscrew….this kind of thing is a little glimpse of modding genius and it doesn’t even spoil the aesthetic of the original knife 

[Simon_Templar]

Mmmm kinda! With the occasional bit of  FrankenSAK serendipity….so not completely backtracking. This one for instance makes it all worth while for me and the black one I almost feel should be a production model!!!

Interesting one, I like the corkscrew/backside Philips combo (although personally I don't see the merit of the backside Philips in the first place - oddly shaped, cannot take much torque and the can opener usually gets the job done anyway. Well, not in your mod, obviously). What do you use the sickle for?