Bikerafting

[lister]

So I've been away for a while.

Meanwhile, as some of you might have noticed, inflation took off, and since my savings were rotting in my bank account I thought to myself that I might as well invest in some sports equipment.

So I bought myself a packraft, a folding mountain bike, and some other related equipment and did this:



(I did put this in the right sub-forum right?)

[Grant Lamontagne]

That looks awesome!

I have been giving serious thought to a folding bike/canoe combo for a while to make longer portages much easier.  Essentially I thought I would put the canoe on a cart, load gear into it, hitch it up to the bike and go.  Then when it's water time, fold everything up and pack it into the boat and start paddling. 

In this particular adventure I walked several kilometers through my neighborhood to get to the water.  A bike would have made it a lot easier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPI0NoPlfvA&list=PLFbat-1lFKBilgbmH94QAXDA2VQxYj6I9&index=2

I always say that whatever you do, just get out and do it.  You'll regret not doing it if you don't, but I don't think anyone has ever complained about having too many great and fun adventures on their death beds! 

Good to see you again- I am looking forward to hearing and seeing more of your adventures!

Def

[lister]

I see you took your canoe for a walk. 

Though I cant see what you had your canoe on in this video? I think that for an actual canoe, you don't actually need a whole cart, just two wheels that can be connected to the canoe. And then you could connect the canoe to the bike?

As for bikes, the best I found are either montague bikes (USA) or change bike (the one I have, from Taiwan if I am not mistaken.) There are a plethora of cheaper folding bikes, that just fold in two, so they are not as compact when folded.

If you really want small, there is also brompton (UK). I've seen at least one yt video of a it being used for packrafting.

I actually have two more videos of me bikerafting on the channel if anyone is interested. I just usually show this one as it is the shortest, and shows the whole process best.

[lister]

I just hand another thought (two in one day, not bad huh?), salt water might be problematic for a bike. You might need some kind of bag / cover...

[lister]

Aaaaand a third one (I am done now I promise). You might find this interesting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM64NGDkccU&list=PLgws2dwF_0BKXRy33vfbdkiqvDHJfy1or

[Grant Lamontagne]

I do a lot of kayaking on different waterways here.  Here is the Ottawa River and you can see the cart attached to the top of my kayak.



It is a simple cart- just unfold it and it makes a cradle to rest the boat on, then put some straps over the boat to hold them together and it becomes like a large wheelbarrow.

You can't see the cart here, but you can see how easy it is to walk with it.



And here it is folded up and put inside the hold.



And here is a better picture of the carts folded up:



And a picture of my father's boat (the blue one) on the cart.



I am trying to find a good pic of it in use, but so far of the many photos I have, none of them are really all that great!   

Here it is folded up, wheels removed and strapped to one of my boats.



When in use, you simply hold the handle of the boat and pull it along behind you, or in front if you are going downhill as in the video I posted.  My thought was, if I could attach a bar to the seat post of the bike that stuck straight behind the bike and past the tire, I could then attach the handle of the boat to that post and pull it behind like a trailer. 

There was one such thing called The Dumb Stick (pictured below) but they seem to have gone out of business.  Another company called Wike makes pretty well the same thing, but theirs isn't sold without the cart, and I already have the cart.  I don't want to spend $300 to get it and the part I already have.

The next problem (at least in my kayaks) is there is no room for even a small folding bike, so I cannot take it with me.  Fortunately I also have a canoe.



It is 12 feet long and has a weight capacity of just under a thousand pounds, so it gives me lots of space for a cart, folding bike, small dog, and any other gear I want to bring along.  And, since it is sheet aluminum, the canoe weighs only 34 pounds, so it should be easy enough to tow behind it.  The gear would be a different story though!

Def

[lister]

I think you could actually place the folded bike on the front of the kayak just like I do on the packraft. Maybe you would need some kind of platform underneath bolted to the kayak.

You would of course gain some air resistance, and you would have to change your paddling stile to what would probably be a less efficient one.

As for weight, in my experience it is not much of a problem on water except when portaging, especially if you are alone. Where it gets you is on the bike... 

[Grant Lamontagne]

I have a lot of things on the front of the boat already, from a spare set of paddles (important, because I have broken a paddle before!) to water, and often my shoes and so on.

Plus in a kayak you would feel the weight of a bicycle that high up and it would likely throw the boat horribly off balance.  You really feel it when you switch from fresh to salt water and the difference in your displacement may look like nothing, but it really changes the dynamic.  I once had my nephew hold on to the deck of my kayak (back when he weighed little more than a bike!) and it really made the boat unstable.

I think for my bike and boat adventures I will take the canoe- it is designed for more weight and stability, and manages much better with extras loaded on board!

Def

[lister]

Yeah, I didn't consider the balance issue.

I only ever kayaked once, in high school. We were on a summer camp, just that it was during the school year (no idea what you guys call that), and the whole class got to try out kayaks and canoes. I had some canoeing experience from summer vacations (the same river featured in my third yt video), but no kayak. Anyway those of us who managed to figure out how to kayak in a straight line in an hour, were allowed to do the final trip with kayaks. Out of 30 people, only three of us managed to do it, the rest were mostly going in circles, and some had to be towed to the river bank by the instructor. 

Anyway, I remember that you had to work to keep your balance, which especially got hard once you got tired. That and the excruciatingly painful sore traps afterwards...

Packraft is much more stable.

[Grant Lamontagne]

It’s like riding a bike- once you know how to do it and develop the muscles it really is a great way to travel.  I don’t know what kind of boat you were in, but most kayaks try to put your seat surface right at or slightly below the water line.  That makes your center of gravity very close to the tipping point.

Once you get used to this and your legs are properly locked in (I hate that term because people then think you can’t get out if you roll!) then the kayak really does become part of your lower body.  Being properly fitted into the correct boat makes a world of difference.

And the term locked in means your legs are pressed against the inside of the hull and your feet are placed properly on the pedals or footrests.  If you go upside down and want to bail out you just kick yourself free- there is nothing holding you there but you!

Canoes are a lot more forgiving, but nowhere near as efficient.  I think of it in car terms.  A kayak is like a VW Golf GT.  It’s fast, nimble and sporty but has the room to get groceries and stuff.  A canoe is more like a pickup truck- it’s slower, less efficient, but if you need to being a lot of stuff with you, there is nothing better.

Def

[lister]

It was one of those we have all the sizes but the correct one. I was jammed in to the kayak. Which is better than if it was to big but still. Also, I was a skinny kid. Good power to weight ratio, but paddling did take a lot out of me. I find the activity a lot less strenuous these days. 

And I understand the concept of being locked in. While it is not as important on a packraft, it still applies. Especially when you get it loaded down with all the gear, as it is quite unresponsive if you are not strapped in. You can see the thigh straps in the video. Some people are even able to do eskimo rolls when strapped in, but you have to be really god at it.

[Grant Lamontagne]

My goal in a boat was always to NOT get wet, otherwise it's not much of a boat!   

Of course one of my kayaks has a completely different opinion and it is also a lot of fun.



It gets pretty wet in that boat on relatively calm water, so you can imagine what it's like when the waves really pick up. 

I was skinny once too, and then I entered the workforce and now I am twice the man I used to be.   

Def

[lister]

I committed another bikerafting. This one was done at more leisurely pace.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I have watched the first ten minutes of your video so far (I will watch it all!) and some thoughts have occurred to me:

1- an inflatable makes a lot of sense, but I would be terrified of something sharp on the bike poking into the boat!
2- do you have a problem with contracting air making the boat soft on the water?  It is a common problem here, where you pump it up with hot air in the sun and then when it gets in the cold water the air condenses and the boat gets soft.
3- I would also be worried about something important falling off the bike in the water and not being able to put it together again on the other side, particularly when you are going through the locks and the boat goes on it's side with the bike on it!
4- your countryside is beautiful, and your drivers are obviously a lot better than many we have here- no one seems to have run you over yet!

Thank you for sharing, I will watch the rest of the video soon!

Def

[lister]

1. TPU coated fabric is actually quite resistant to punctures. Also the bike folds in a way that protects the boat from most of the sharp bits and the pedals are removable. Also a simple puncture can be field repaired with a piece of special tape (I carry some warped around a small bottle of alcohol, which I intend to use to clean the spot for the tape to stick better).

2. Yes I do. The first time I did this trip (I didn't have the gopro for the first two trips) I capsized twice in first 400 meters because of that and I didn't place the bike back enough so the whole setup got completely unstable.  Now I always place the boat in the water as soon as possible and reinflate it again to full pressure just before I depart.

3. Apart from pedals, most bits are attached to the bike even when folded. As for crossing the dams (the first one was actually for a watermill, the collapsed structure I was standing on), especially the first one, I need a longer leash. It would all be fine if the leash was long enough. The problem was I couldn't find the 5m long tie down strap, to use that. And you can actually se my 2l water bottle going over the dam, but that's okay, I already ordered a new one. Ain't I a good consumer? 

4. Yeah, people around here are quite used to people on bikes. A substantial portion of the population uses bikes for recreation. In fact, this road is somewhat infamous for locals driving fast, and thus being a bit dangerous for bikes.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I have a folding cart for my kayaks, and it has these small spring clips that hold the wheels on.  On one particular outing I lost one of the spring clips somewhere along the trip, and then I broke my paddles.  This meant I had a long walk home and had to try and use a twig in the hole where the spring clip goes to hold the wheel on.  It was not a very effective solution and I had to try and walk several kilometers up a very busy and dangerous road with my 17 foot long kayak barely on the cart.

That is why I am afraid of losing pieces, and I hope that if there is anything like that being used to hold your bike together, they are either tied off or secured separately somehow, or that you carry spares!

It would be very hard to pedal your bike (for example) if the pedals have no way of being attached because the screws/pins/whatever fell in the river!   

Remember Rule #1 of paddling- if it's not secured, it's not yours!   

I have broken Rule #1 a few times now and paid the price....   

Def

[lister]

 Well, the water bottle was not attached to the boat and I can confirm that it is no longer mine... 

I also forgot to tighten the bottom quick release screw that is a part folding mechanism, I also lost that. I already have several ordered and I will be taking spares with me on my future adventures.

As for pedals, I stow those away in the top tube bag at the start of folding process and zip the bag. I am also looking at possibility to get another set, and take one with me as a backup. If the worst case I can always hitch a ride or call someone to come pick me up. One of the advantages to living in a small country and having equipment that folds. I could even get on to any kind of public transport. Even flying is a possibility with my setup. The bike  supposedly fits in to a big suitcase. I might even be able to take the boat as a carry-on. 

Previously I drowned my smartphone (the very first time), the first time I used gopro, I lost clamp mount that I left on my bike, I almost forgot the gopro on a rather inaccessible river bank, I lost my sunglasses on river Kolpa (the long expedition). I am quite at peace with losing something each time.

[Grant Lamontagne]

I have watched the rest and I really enjoyed the video!  Thank you for sharing it!   

I have more thoughts and questions though, and I hope you don't mind!

1- What GoPro do you have?  I keep thinking I should upgrade as I am still using Hero2 models, but I tend to use my phone for so much these days.

2- You are much better with a fire starter than I am!  I usually use the file on a SAK or multi to get enough sparks and even then it takes me forever to get flame!

3- Have you thought about using a camp stove of some sort rather than an open fire?  I am very fond of the BioLite camp stove which could cook your food faster and charge your GoPro at the same time.  I like it because the wood you are collecting for the fire would be enough to keep the BioLite going for a while, and you don't have to carry other forms of fuel.

4- The leaves you gather right after you started the fire- what are they?  I assume those were the ones you put in the buns for your hamburgers?

5- Was that a Victorinox Spirit you used?  If so, good choice!   

6- What kind of distances are you covering, and how long are you out there for?  I've done some long distance trips in a day and they can be exhausting- I am not sure I would want to have to bike home afterwards, but you appear to be much younger and healthier than I am!   

It looks like you had an excellent time and I look forward to reading more of your adventures!

Def

[lister]

1. Gopro 10. But don't get that model because THEY SAY ( ) it is especially prone to overheating. I used a supposedly waterproof phone (samsung galaxy something or other, the flagship when I bought it, but not so much 5 years later. I tend to hang on to my phones for a long time) and it decided to drown the first time I splashed some water on it. Right after I bought a 200 eur samsung, which I still use and is decidedly not waterproof. Also it does not make great videos. 

2. As for being much batter at fire starting. Let me introduce you to the magic that is kdenlive  . I just checked on the original file, it took me 4 minutes and 30 seconds to light that fire  . Granted it would be faster if it wasn't only the second time I used a ferro rod. The first time was when an acquaintance of mine decided to play at being Bear Grills with one of those black and orange knifes with a ferro rod in the handle, broke it in few tries, and proclaimed it can not be done. As I am not all that fond of him I proceeded to prove him wrong. But I did have a whole bunch of dry paper towels at  hand. This time I used the fuzzy plant parts you can see me gather, and while fuzzy, they were not quite dry. They were catching on fire but refused to stay lit. In the end I managed to light a bunch of dry grass that was caught between spruce twigs. And even that at first looked like it would only smolder, it actually caught me off guard when it started burning while on the ground. It also didn't help that I decided to see if a broken flint can be used as a striker, all while having a perfectly good victorinox saw at hand. 

3. Yeah, in the beginning I planed to use a toaks wood stove. I bought it and tried to boil some water. I quickly saw it would take too long while on a serious trip to cook. This time I set time aside just for this experiment. It took more than two hours. As for biolite for charging, I know that it exists, but I don't really need that. For short trip, I can use a power bank. I also have three batteries for the gopro. This time I forgot the power bank which constrained my filming time. As it turns out that is good, as I only took 42gb of films, which is three times less than normally and it cuts down on disk space use and editing time.

4. Wild garlic. I could smell the stuff before I landed, that is why I chose this specific part of the river bank. And that is what you see me put in the burgers. I wanted to take some tomato slices and stuff but I couldn't find one of those plastic food containers I could swear I have somewhere and it was too late to go buy some.

5. Yes, that and the leatherman mini is all I still have. 

6. This was about 12km, on road and on the river. The road runs next to the river for the most time. The most I can do in a day is 25km, maybe 30 if I start paddling before 10 o'clock. Which I failed to do even when sleeping next to the starting point. I have a hard time waking in the morning, a harder time breakfasting enough and then it takes another half hour or more to get the boat ready. 

It was a nice time indeed. 

[Grant Lamontagne]

I have done trips 30km and over in one day and I do not recommend it!   

I have done a local run on the Guysborough River here twice that was technically just short of 30kms each time, being 29.9kms, but I am counting it anyway!  Both of these trips were marathons and none of us came out intact afterwards.  The first time broke me, in that I would have, at any time gotten out of my boat and walked away, never to paddle again.  I truly did not care if I lived or died at that point, I just desperately wanted to stop paddling.  We made it though, severely dehydrated and barely conscious. 

The second time we did that run we brought along the BioLite stove and made a lunch, which didn't help.  I made it this time, but my companions felt the same way I had on the previous run.

It was miserable at the time, but if the opportunity arose I would 100% do it again!  Some of the worst experiences make for the best trips afterwards!   

The third time we did 30kms in one day was at an event called Canoe To The Sea and was actually 34kms.  We actually did this one in great time because the river we are on connects to the Bay of Fundy, home of the highest tides in the world.  We went as the tide was going out and so were drawn along by the river at a pretty good clip. 

Canoe To The Sea

The Guysborough trips were easily 8+ hours each, but Canoe To The Sea was only about 5.5 hours because of the current, and was easier.  There were still many challenges though as the outgoing tide left us with very shallow water for the last third of the journey and we had to get out and walk across sand bars, dragging the boats because the water was only a couple of inches deep.

They have all been long days and very exhausting, but I am looking forward to doing each of them again!  The worst days at the time become the best days in stories afterwards!   

Def

[lister]

After 25km my arms (and most of my upper back) almost fell of the next day. Also, palms where not in a good condition. I really need to get some gloves.

Such trips are indeed best appreciated in retrospective. 

 

[lister]

Wait, necro posting is now frowned upon? That's new. Or better yet, I've been away too long... 

Anyway, I did two more expeditions.

In this one I got a bit wetter than usual:


And this one was supposed to be the main one of the year. I planned to do a multi day trip on the river, but after scouting the river upstream from where I camped last and this year, I found that there was not enough water to do much, so I did the same stretch as last year.

[Vidar]

Reading the headline I found it funny that I thought someone was rafting with their bike. Thus I checked in to see what it was really about. Well, I stand corrected. It does seem fun though!

[Grant Lamontagne]

I was just wondering about this thread a couple of days ago! 

Thanks for the update- I will watch the videos this evening!  I am really looking forward to it!

Def

[lister]

Reading the headline I found it funny that I thought someone was rafting with their bike. Thus I checked in to see what it was really about. Well, I stand corrected. It does seem fun though!

I raft my bike, and I bike my raft. 
And it is fun indeed,

I was just wondering about this thread a couple of days ago! 

Thanks for the update- I will watch the videos this evening!  I am really looking forward to it!

Def

Well, second one might put you to sleep. Perfect for an evening watch... 

[Grant Lamontagne]

If it's one thing I have learned, paddling videos are generally only interesting to other paddlers!   

But, to those paddlers, it is endlessly fascinating!

Def

[lister]

If it's one thing I have learned, paddling videos are generally only interesting to other paddlers!   

But, to those paddlers, it is endlessly fascinating!

Def

Yeah, I noticed that quite some of the videos I was watching only had a hundred or so views. One was of a some kids, going down some serious white water in a flooded creek flowing through forest. And I mean through, they were paddling around smurfing trees.  I would thing that would garner more attention from general population.

Then there is this guy, who flies his boat and gear to some remote location in arctic and does hundreds of kilometers on the river. He seems to be doing alright, must be all the fish hes catching and cooking... 

Anyway, don't know if it is only me getting old, or is youtube going down hill lately... 

[Grant Lamontagne]

I have just watched your first video (River Saga) and wow... I have said it before and I will say it again- you have a very beautiful country!  The color of the river in spots is magical!

I will admit I was surprised at the lack of swear words when you ran into that rock, and then when you capsized and couldn't get the boat back up again!  Your bike must make the boat very top heavy given how much trouble you had getting it righted!

Seeing how top heavy the boat was, I think you took the ledges (around the 9 minute mark) very well!

That was an amazing trip and I look forward to being able to watch the other video soon!

Def

[lister]

Jup, the country is indeed beautiful.

There were swear words a plenty after I booped that rock. I removed them using some online AI tool, as I couldn't get Audacity AI plugins working on linux.

The swear words were the f-smurf equivalent in my language, which by some weird coincidence sound almost exactly like the English word. The word comes from old slavic word for to blow. But in Slovenian it lost the original meaning, and now has almost the same meaning as the English equivalent. In fact most Slovenians now think that it a word imported from English. Though I will admit the existence and prevalence of f-smufr probably made the use of our word more common. 

When I capsized I didn't swear exactly because I decided the first time that it just won't do to have all my swearing recorded.