swisstool. good and bad..

[ausjulius]

so yesterday i got me a swisstool. and ive many bad things to say about it a some good .
firstyl,
it was a black swisstool...  unfortunatly they only one with one setup of tools.. but i wanted it in a black colour as i havent any other multi tools coloured so..
well i got it for 33$ new in the packet with a sheath so i couldnt argue..

when i got it  the first thing i noticed was its a heavy bugger. and the handles are longer than the leatherman or sog tools..

i took  it out and handled it a bit and i have to say it is resonably well put togeather and all items function correctyl and smothly  , which is more than i can say for other products from some other makers.  the fit and finish was a little below the normal sak fitting, but i think it is mostly that the type of lock is a little odd and the springs require cutting with a copper wire abrasion machine or a laser,,  so each spring is dependant on the diameter of its blade .. a lot beacuse all the springs are.. one single spring and have no spacers.. .. i can forgive that , as the whole design  is a hard combination to get to work.. aspecialy when surface grinding the blades and then polishing them and then  getting each one to match up to the  springs withouot moving the spring next to them... anyway......


now my likes were.. it is smooth and well put togeather.. ,, it is solidly made and a far cry from the old leathermans , that were,, rickety to say the least.. , everything is solid and tight and works , and loks like ti will work for a long time..

what i didnt like.. the design is poor.. and realy  im not impressed..  the handles are so long but the tools are undersized..

there is lots of wasted space that can be filled, and the try to reduce weight by making the plier heads thinner  but the handles are long and the tools are short, , it is like they save weight to add more weigth that is just as useless.

i dont need super long tools, but the knife and saw blades could be mutch longer and they could have worked out the plier springs better to take up less room.

the "lanyard holder" is a silly afterthought,, and cannot be used well as it goes into the sheath frist an  is just not helpfull

the awl on this tool is poor and small, and it is inferiro to the standard vic awl..
it should have been  2 cm longer,, had a  finder rest on the underside wider and hollow ground and had a hole in the blade for pulling though cord..
or atleats been the same as on the normal sak..

the file and saw have some odd defects, like the dont rest on the back spring like all other tools , but rest on the forward metal insert that makes the plier head spring,  they have sill little cutouts in their tips making them shorter and making them less functional,, why didnt they just have the tools having heir blade stops in the tangs like the other tools and add another 6mm tho their useable length and keep things simple..
in thecenter of the tool there is alot of space for making there 4 central tools on each knife longer and much more useful.
there was no effort made atall, and there is a huge  space that is wasted, and the tools are inferior to what should have been added in the same size of area..


 on the black knife the tool combination is weird and not very good, . thats enougth said on that.. all i can say is they do have good combinations on some others like the "rescue" models which is not anything you would want for a rescue tool , but  is a very good combination of tools, but it didnt come in black :S


next gripe,,
the plier heads like all the other multitools out now are cast.. this is  noy my favoriet way of making plier heads.. they should be forged.. in europe there is many comanies providing this service for tool producers and they could have got forged heads..

the fit of the pliers is poor and im not at all impressed with it,
they are  very nicely finished in the jaws , clean sharp work done there,
but then the space between the two heads when they were pinned to geather it is 1.5mm this is not what i want on a pair of pliers. dirt and other things can get in their and it can catch things like  wire or sting in it and it is just not normal when you make a pair of pliers, there should be only .1-.3mm between the heads outer pivot area , on ths there is nearly 1.5mm .. not normal...

the tangs of the pliers  are not machine but left rough after casting and  rub unevenly on the plier springs, this is cosmetic but it shows,
for a few cents more they could have finished them nicely and you couldnt see the casting  likes from the lost wax form...

the black finish is a bit spotty, but that is ok with be , it is just colour difference between tools..  some are brown and not black..

one other thing that i didnt like , was the fact the tools were pinned on and werent going anywhere... but hey all vic products are like that..
it is a pitty on this they didnt make  bolt to remove the tools when they were damaged.. but that i can live with , if they break ill buy another tool. and if they dont it will like till theyer all worn out..

i havent tested the plier head for cutting , but me suspects it is not to hard,, and shouldnt be subjected to any hard work , but this is multitool, and not a fencing plier, and the handles would proably fail well before the lead  was very damaged, still i can see the tread on the jaws being stripped by any hard steel, and the wirecutter being  mauled on  hard wire..  but then with cast stainless steel. this is what you will get..  as the hardness cannot be  to high as it creates flaws..  for me this is fine for what it is..which is not some industrial strength farm tool. but a tool for taking hunting for fishing or for when you havent another tool  close buy , like in the car or camping
the file and the saw anre very nicely cut and look like the would work very well.
im alittle suspect with the hardness of the file, but  i dont think ill be using it on any steel, on wood or on some copper or brass it would do very i suspect, id have liked if it had 2 different cuts on the file   instead of the same on both sides.. one very fine and one corse would have been good, or even a diamond coating on one side.. and then made the file from carbon steel..

can opener is the only handly vic can opener that i have to say looks useless but works rely good..

the sheath stinks.. and is a poor desigh and  nothing goodto say about ti at all,
 ive better sheaths from cheap chines knives..  ... all round bad,
and compared to the leatherman sheath it is sad..
would have prefered a leather vic sheath, as atleast they look a bit nicer..


overall it is a good solid tool and is mostly well made..
i think the sheath is  horrid and is a shoddy addition ..
for the price i payed for the tool im pleased,
the finish of the tools is good and all items function correctly,
there is big design flaws that realy need to be corrected.. and the tool layout must actualy make sense
i dont need many flat head screwdrivers  and 2 flat head screwdrivers the same size and a blunt chisel i need a good range of tools that are usefull,
they should make the black tool is  a different range of tool oprions and make the serrated blade  more like a large bread knife.. . the knife should not be without sicssors

id say if you were going to buy a multitool the swiss tool is a good  tool.. but dont buy the black tool , unless like me you only want ti for the fact it is a black tool......

 

[Magic Bus]

Yes, arguably not a perfect multi, but much more good than bad for me 

[Mike, Lord of the Spammers!]

Thanks for the review

I don't agree with some of you points, but I respect your opinion.

[ausjulius]

Yes, arguably not a perfect multi, but much more good than bad for me 

oh yes for sure, if it were a new tool,, but remember these tools have been around for a long time... and there is simple things that havent changed and that normaly should be changed...............

T thnigs i point are bad because i didnt  exspect them. the good things are things that are normaly required ... i havent found much that is exciting on this tool, other than the little sliding lock ,,  and the general fit of the blades..


as for the black tool.. it is more bad than good in my eyes... the tool combination is.. not useful.. and it is not offered in other combinations..

i make the review to list  things that are not good, if i  was making one to list good things i must first test it out ....

ill have some pictures for the review later...

[Magic Bus]

Yes, arguably not a perfect multi, but much more good than bad for me 

oh yes for sure, if it were a new tool,, but remember these tools have been around for a long time... and there is simple things that havent changed and that normaly should be changed...............

T thnigs i point are bad because i didnt  exspect them. the good things are things that are normaly required ... i havent found much that is exciting on this tool, other than the little sliding lock ,,  and the general fit of the blades..


as for the black tool.. it is more bad than good in my eyes... the tool combination is.. not useful.. and it is not offered in other combinations..

i make the review to list  things that are not good, if i  was making one to list good things i must first test it out ....

ill have some pictures for the review later...

What, you mean you haven't even used it yet!!    Go out and put it to use 

[Sean]

I really like my Swiss Tool.  I have the stainless version.   I have the nylon sheath and it's very low profile so as not to get caught up in jackets etc when you need to pull them off.
The handles are long which I don't really mind all that much.  I find the plier head is ok but I have one of the older heads and it doesn't have much of a wire cutter on it.  Small wire only.
I like the tool assortment it has everything I pretty much require on a tool.  I quite like the locking mechanism and it's non-clumping tools.  It's a heavy tool and I would probably not carry it around as much if it didn't have such a
good sheath in my eyes.  I find that I favour pocket clip knives and tools for everyday carry rather than anything in an outside sheath if given a choice.
But anyhow appreciate and respect your views on the tool.

sean

[Mr. Whippy]

To me, the most important point was cast pliers head instead of forged.

That is a huge difference in strength.  I suspect that is part of the problem with Skeletool pliers breaking.


Forged > cast.

[Dunc]

Hmmm    I'm thinking maybe this isn't the tool for you . You really don't sound that happy with it .I disagree with so many of your points that I think you should try a SOG powerlock .
   I will just say that the wire cutters are very good and heres a couple of videos .

First is me cutting a coat hanger



And then full size barbed wire


and a phot of a close up of the jaws to show no damage



Dunc

[Magic Bus]

To me, the most important point was cast pliers head instead of forged.

That is a huge difference in strength.  I suspect that is part of the problem with Skeletool pliers breaking.


Forged > cast.

Aren't the plier heads of all the major brand MT's cast?

[Mr. Whippy]

Hmm...

I'll have to look.  I thought the Spirit looked forged.  Same for my older LMs.  The first I noticed with a cast head (for sure) was my Skeletool.

But to be honest, I haven't looked that closely to confirm that.

[max6166]

I think this is a very interesting review and I am going to compare it to my SwissTool later.

It is a little nitpicky, but that's ok. It almost reads like something I would have written. 

[Magic Bus]

We need more information. I just assumed they were all cast, but what do I know

[Styerman]

Multi plier heads are about 99% cast . I'm hard put to think of any that are /were forged . Qualitywise , who's doing the casting matters lots . Personally , I think the Swisstool virtues outweigh it's vices .

Chris

[ausjulius]

Yes, arguably not a perfect multi, but much more good than bad for me 

oh yes for sure, if it were a new tool,, but remember these tools have been around for a long time... and there is simple things that havent changed and that normaly should be changed...............

T thnigs i point are bad because i didnt  exspect them. the good things are things that are normaly required ... i havent found much that is exciting on this tool, other than the little sliding lock ,,  and the general fit of the blades..


as for the black tool.. it is more bad than good in my eyes... the tool combination is.. not useful.. and it is not offered in other combinations..

i make the review to list  things that are not good, if i  was making one to list good things i must first test it out ....

ill have some pictures for the review later...

What, you mean you haven't even used it yet!!    Go out and put it to use 

hahaha indeed, ive used  it now i only got it yesterday come one .. !!1 id had if for about 6 hours when i posted..
:d i  used it today, took it to work , it is good,  , nice in your hand for  use as a plier..

the sheath is not nice and sloshes about on my belt and hangs heavy due to the thin material used in the belt loop...

havent used anything on it but the plier and the  knife.. ill put it to use on the week end..

[Leatherman123]

As others have said, I don't think the SwissTool is for you.. 

[ausjulius]

To me, the most important point was cast pliers head instead of forged.

That is a huge difference in strength.  I suspect that is part of the problem with Skeletool pliers breaking.


Forged > cast.

the swisstool  plier is cast not forged aswell.. :s the swissgrip looks forged to me..

if the casting is done well is should be ok,, im shure the casting done in europe is far better than in taiwan and china ..
but still , i wish that victorinox would  have the tool head forged...

[ausjulius]

To me, the most important point was cast pliers head instead of forged.

That is a huge difference in strength.  I suspect that is part of the problem with Skeletool pliers breaking.


Forged > cast.

Aren't the plier heads of all the major brand MT's cast?

yes they are all cast.. is is not a normal thing to tool the the tool industry.. and produces a poor quality tool head.. it is done becasuse ,for sample making to begin with and also machining , to cast in smaller amounts is easy and you can have samples ready quickly , afew weeks at the most.. with a rubber mold for small orders  only days.. , also your machining is only about 5% of the material, if forging it is a lot.. like 20%-35% .. and  time from sample to production is longer and the amount of tooling is longer to getin order and  takes more work, once setup is made from forging it is very fast though !!

[Mr. Whippy]

I just looked at several LMs and my Vic Spirit.  All are cast!  I hadn't really looked closely before.  The only one that has that "cast with light buff" look is the Skeletool.  The others look like the business end is fairly well machined before put into the product.

The old Schrade pliers head is composed of several plates of steel.  Looks stamped.  Not cast or forged.

[DaveK]

All Leatherman pliers are cast - in fact it was those parts that were cast in Mexico that caused the court cas ethat lead to the removal of "USA" from the tools in 2001/2.

I think every multi I have has cast pliers tbh.

[ausjulius]

Hmmm    I'm thinking maybe this isn't the tool for you . You really don't sound that happy with it .I disagree with so many of your points that I think you should try a SOG powerlock .
   I will just say that the wire cutters are very good and heres a couple of videos .

buy a normal 5$ plier from china with a decent quality in the same size , but with a properly heat treated and forged head and see the difference..
but as i said , all multitool heads are like this.. it is not what i wrote about in the review.
i have purchased with the swisstool also a sog powerplier   ill test it...


i did not buy it because it was for me or not for me..
i purchased it because  i wanted one of these tools  in black as i like that colour, ive plenty of good pliers that i can use for actual plier work...

multitools are a backup tool........... they are not a tool for heavy work.. my review is not about comparing this tool to a proper singular tool..
it is pointing out flaws in this tool that are present not because of the nature of the tool , but because of the nature of the design process it was created under.....
the tool  can be improved with some basic changes (not large changes. even leaving the head as cast is fine for the work it will do.. ). that are not any technical advances over the current methods used to produce it but changes in how the materials are applied..
the basic construction for this tool is sound..


if i did a review about how great it is this is not a review it is a addvertisment . i like every multi-tool, not matter how bad,, as long as it is not a no name chinese product.. if they are not very useful for me , they will got into my collection..

i have not said it is a bad tool. im pleased with the overall quality and the finish is decent some blades tangs are not consistantly machined, but then as i said this type of lock is hard to put togeather in a factory and have all parts 100%, 95% is very good..  .
i say this black tool is a crazy combination of tools..
i knew what tools it came with before i payed my money for it... i got it because it is black, but id have rather had another combination of tools.. and the same colour..
just like.. id like that victorinox offered tools with different plier heads.. because  if they insist on casting.. casting is very simple to change forms produces , one must only change the cast mold, only some 100s of euros.. and you can make many different plier head  styles.  a special fishing plier mayber with a needle nose plier.. and  heavy  plier head with a anvil type wire cutter for hardened wire..
a combination electricians plier head.. ?
id like this,. they could make a stainless fishing tool with a  fishing plier head and a diamond file for hooks and a scaler and  fishing knife and other tools, would be my cup of tea .. maybe an orange sheath with a lanyard cable attached and a tape in a pouch or such woudl be good..

anyway ill post some fotos on the tools and description..

regards, julius

[Roadie]

What about the combination of tools do you think is crazy? 2 knife blades (1 plain 1 serrated), a saw, a file, big medium and small flatheads, 1 philips, can and bottle openers and an awl. They all seem like pretty good and sensible choices to me Only thing i might consider an omission is scissors Your point about the lanyard attachment point being pointless and awkward is only valid if you use the sheath, if pocket carried then it is a very sensible place to have it as it doesn't interfere with using the tools unlike other companies who put lanyard holes at the tool pivots, it also serves as an attachment point for the corkscrew.

[Sean]

Might I go out on a limb here and say (and hey if I'm wrong I'll swallow crow) but I don't think there are many forged plier heads out there?  I mean as soon as you snap the jaws I guess you can tell pretty quick can't you from the look of the inside of the steel?   I think there all cast heads? 

sean

[DaveK]

Might I go out on a limb here and say (and hey if I'm wrong I'll swallow crow) but I don't think there are many forged plier heads out there?  I mean as soon as you snap the jaws I guess you can tell pretty quick can't you from the look of the inside of the steel?   I think there all cast heads? 

sean

I'm pretty sure you're right there Sean. What might vary across manufacturers, is the quality of the casting / steel.

I've posted my thoughts on the Swisstool previously, and it's never going to be my favourite tool, but that is purely because of design issues (i.e. I prioritise different things than Victorinox did when they put these tools together) I couldn't find any quality issues!

[Poncho65]

I am a LM man but I still think that I think higher of the Swisstool than you

If I wasn't a LM person I believe that the Swisstool would be my go to tool

But the Swisstool X that I own does have everything that I like in a MT

[ausjulius]

here destroys a kopek.. it was the most uselsss metal i had around so i ad to do it..
it cuts smoothly and shears the metal..  the plier heads are a big step up from the older leatherman and sog plier heads in the area of hardness and finish..
it cuts soft steel wire as thick as a coat hanger without any problem,,, and clips through it with ease..

ive tested it on other things,, lets say i would not cut any hardened wire with it , but that is common sense,, maybe only very thin wire that matched up with the notch in the back of the jaws,
but nothing more.. but then ,  who would cut hardened wire with a shear type plier ? and it is not going to work well for it..
ive found the  black coating seems to make the  screwdriver bits just a little less slippery than on standard model with the polished finish..


now here is my  points about problems..

look next picture , the gap in the head,, which is very bad, also, ive examined many of there pliers, and all have a amount of play in the head of the tool..
this be gap in the outer area of the plier pivot dosnt help with this.. and the two surfaces dont support one another..
it is 1.2mm wide.,

[ausjulius]

it is big,, 1.2mm wide. normal i plier industry is .5-.01 for good plier..

 

[ausjulius]

sorry files are large..

here,,. the caliper...
and here a cheap chinese plier,  made by  some factory in china.. but still a factory that makes pliers,, it is forged.. not cast.  and although it is forged it is machine to nice tight tolerances,, it is .1mm between the  outer head pivot..  you cannot get a smoke paper between it.. it is a cheap  junk plier, but it is all correctly put to geather, as a plier should be.. there is no play in the head..

[ausjulius]

all about awls.......

here you can see even the normal spatan sak has a far far better awl, if they had even just put this awl on id be happy, and yes i use the awl a lot..

[ausjulius]

big empty spaces..  that could have been filled.....

 no stop anvil on the   choil , instead on both the saw and the file it is on the tip , if the tool is pushed in  roughtly it is then pused into the empty space and it can  get stuck or  pushed further though the handle and damaged..

[ausjulius]

here, see when it is pushed in and stuck. as because the tip works as the blade stop , if it is pushed aside it will not stop the tool and it will stick or become damaged.  fortunatly the plier head will when the tool is close push up the blades back to their position, but it isa small problem, that dosnt make sense and one makes the tools shorter tan they are and makes they  2 odd tools in the  plier that  dont have stop anvils on their choils ..