Is it just me...?

[Grant Lamontagne]

Is it just me or does the SwissTool tend to be the standard by which all other multis are judged?  Leatherman makes a good tool, as does SOG, but Dunc's recent comparison, as well as the Enthusiast Preference thread in the Leatherman forum got me to thinking.  I know, I know, that's a dangerous thing for me to be doing, but it happened and now we have to deal with it!

It seems to me, that more than any other manufacturer, Victorinox seems to be the "Team to Beat."  There have been three (off the top of my head) threads done with shootouts between SOGs and Victorinox or Leatherman and Victorinox.  And, on BF you often see threads like "Charge vs SwissTool" and so on.  The SwissTool seems to mostly be the tool that all other tools are measured against.

I have to wonder why that is.  Sure, the SwissTool is an expertly crafted tool, with all locking implements, a dazzling array of functions and a lifetime guarantee, but why is it the one everyone thinks of as a baseline?  Is it because there really is only one model (admittedly with several variants) that makes it easier to distinguish?  I mean, after all, if you asked how something compares to Leatherman, most of the time one would ask which Leatherman due to the large number of both current and retired tools.  Same with Gerber- so many tools, which one are you comparing it to?

Just a random observation- I have a feeling I know what Dunc is going to say, but I'd like to see if anyone else noticed this, or if it's just me, or even what everyone else's thoughts on the whole subject are.

Def

[Tom Munch]

I really think it is because there is just one SwissTool.  Once everyone has seen it it becomes a baseline because it is unchanging (even though we know there have been unannounced improvements).  The same goes for any product which has any longevity.

[David Bowen]

The Swisstool is a tool by which all others are compared to because it has what most people want, everything you need and nothing you don't. Vic set the standard for multitools since releasing it and it stands alone because no one has created anything remotely like it, not yet anyways. And like Tom said, since no "changes" have been announced we still consider it to be the staple of the multitool community. From the company that REALLY started multitools, they create two tools compared too all the ones Leatherman has made, and what is sick....they got it right the first time. That in itself amazes people. Def and I were just talking about Leathermans rusting, wouldn't it be nice if some one else did some polishing? (except screwdriver tips of course). Anyways, that is what I think. Been doing the tool thing for a while like a lot of you, and since owning a swisstool there is nothing that compares.

David

[Tom Munch]

David,

I'm not quite as dedicated to Vic tools as you.  I think Vic just knows that constant design-changing makes their brand unstable in the mind of your users.  (That said, look at the number of options that are available in their knives.)  Vic tools are very, very good, but they aren't perfect by any means in my opinion.  Leatherman only made one multitool for many, many years in the beginning of their multitool manufacturing days too.

As far as not rusting, I don't know how they afford the HAZMAT charges for all the waste that stainless tool production makes.  I'm guessing that's why more toolmakers don't use stainless.

Tom

[Grant Lamontagne]

Not to take sides here, but Dave is more of a tool freak than a SAK freak... he may have gotten his start with my mad plans in SOSAK, but Dave actually started the first two independant multitool review sites on the internet.  Multitool.org was greatly supported by those sites in the beginning and Dave has reverted back to being a tool junkie rather than a SAK junkie!

He used to trade me multitools for SAKs... now he tries to trade me my own SAKs back for multis!

Man I am really enjoying this discussion so far, and it's just starting- I can't wait to see where it goes from here!

Def

[Tom Munch]

I'll pick this up just for the sake of argument.  I really like my Vic tools & SAKs, but here are some arguments I've heard against Vic.

Why don't they use better steel?
Why have their designs changed so little over the past __ years?
Why don't they offer different blade shapes?
Why are their tools so slick in the hand?

With these kind of questions, you could make the argument that Vic is slow to innovate & that's why they took so long to make a multitool & why they don't have more offerings.

Taking the Leatherman side again, many would argue that the PST was the perfect multitool.  In fact someone said just the other day on this forum that Leatherman had never made any real improvements on that original PST.

I'm not trying to pick a fight.  I just think it's fun to defend a side for the sake of debate.  Overall I'm still searching for the perfect tools - & always will be I'm afraid.  Anyone else feel like that in this group?

Tom

[Raukodur]

Speaking from the point of view of someone who is naive, i.e. not an expert in multitools, not an owner of many (actually ive only ever owned one, and that went pretty much unused, a LM surge), I can tell you what I thought when I looked at the offerings of these companies and was deciding to buy one.

I love victorinox, I love their swiss army knives, but I dont think I will ever buy their multitool, it is far too boring for me, it has nothing 'special' about it at all for me.
Every other tool has something special, they make an effort, and they can do this buy releasing many different models.

With the new gerber tools i found the idea of the pliers sliding in and out very cool, even though it wasnt for me.
With SOG there are the special compound pliers.
With Leatherman there is the special steel and titanium of the charge series, and 4 one hand opening tools on the outside of their bigger models. Plus I like the shape of their tools, and the bit drivers.

This is just for examples sake, but when I was looking at vic tools, I just didnt see anything to catch my eye, sure they are probably the best made, I dont expect anything less from victorinox, but that isnt enough for me, partly because the rest are not poorly made, they are just not as well made as the vic tools. Oh, and I absolutely hate the shape of the vic knife.

But i also think this is what makes the swiss tools so good for comparing other tools to, they dont have any special features, but they have all the tools and more, and they are very well made. So this allows you to see if the tool you are comparing can do all the basic tasks anywhere near as well as the vic which can do most of them excellently, and also to compare build structure and other such aspects. And I suppose it is also helpful (as has already been said) that there arent a large variety of swiss tools to pick from, that would definately have made it more difficult.

All IMHO of course.

[J-sews]

To me it is a matter of seperating DESIGN from EXECUTION.

When it comes to EXECUTION, nobody can come close to Victorinox. Nobody. Not even close. Every single blade on the tool is perfectly consistent, every cut or grind is precise, the blades lock up like a bank vault, and the pliers and handles are shaped and polished marvelously. In short, Victorinox sweats every last detail and isn't satisfied with anything short of perfection. And they do all that at a reasonable price. It's not that the other manufacturers are so bad, its just that Vic is so good.

As a seperate issue, I consider DESIGN. The design of the SwissTool is somewhat ordinary, and at ten years old or so could even be considered dated. Other designs (IMO) have passed it by, most notably Leatherman's one-hand opening blade models. Gerber carbide insert wire cutters and SOG compound leverage pliers are other advancements.

So when I think about who makes "the best" multitool, I seperate the question into two catagories. Victorinox is far and away the best quality of manufacture, but the best design is certainly a closer race.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Well, "best" is subjective... I think the question is why Victorinox seems to be the one that everyone seems to compare everything else to.

Def

[J-sews]

Sorry I rambled off track there a bit. 

I guess what I'm saying is that I tend to consider the SwissTool to be the standard in quality manufacturing, but not the standard in design.

[Grant Lamontagne]

So as far as manufacturing goes, you say the SwissTool is indeed a benchmark to measure others by?

Def

[J-sews]

No question, the SwissTool and the SwissTool Spirit set the bar mighty high.

[Grant Lamontagne]

So what would you consider the benchmark for design then?

I am trying not to punch holes in Tom's points because I know he was playing Devil's Advocate, and I know a couple of hardcore SwissTool users will come in eventually and take care of it!

Def

[Tom Munch]

Are any of us that convinced that one maker's tools are perfect?

[Grant Lamontagne]

Probably not, but then that's what makes discussing it so much fun.  Maybe not as much fun as owning all the tools in question, but then discussion is a hell of alot cheaper!

Def

[Tom Munch]

I argue with myself every day like this when I try to decide what to EDC for the day.

[David Bowen]

I agree Tom, I have a many knives as I have tools and SAK's but because of my job I am limited to what I carry. After all, not every tool agrees with a pair of dress pants  I can't tell you how long it takes for me to pick something out, I feel like I should have them displayed on a dresser and I can pick one I want, due to being married I keep them in a drawer. I am not as dedicated to Vic as it sounded but the quality is amazing and that is what I was getting at, I personally love the 2004 Wave and Charge for many reasons, however I did carry the Spirit yesterday cause it was my day off and it needed some time, every tool feels neglected once in a while. I simply don't carry the SwissTool due to sheer weight, I own the CS Plus model  like they say, different strokes for different folks.

David

[Swiss Man]

Time an time again I will run across a multi tool for a great price and buy it. Even though I don't need it (sign of an addict?)
The other day I got a busted up L/M Super Tool for $7.35 for about $5.00 more I shipped it to L/M.
Wouldn't you know they were out of Super Tools (since they retire them years ago) so they sent me a new Wave.

Not looking a gift horse in the mouth but I have never been a Wave fan. I asked a friend at the local store if he could exchange it for a Core. The plan was buy the Core then exchange the Wave and get a refund.

I brought the Core at first I was impressed, the massive handles, all the tools actually came out one at a time (except the lanyard ring did stick to the file). I really did like the long... phillips head and the serrated blade.

Then came the test, one simple test; cutting a coat hanger. I.M.H.O. Swiss Tool kicked Core butt (sorry censors) in ease of the cut, the comfort of the grip. 

I have owned L/M, Schrade Tough Tool, Gerber, Kershaw, SOG and nothing can compare to my Swiss Tool and time an time again she forgives me for bringing others in the house and comparing them to her.

The only thing I can ever see replacing my Swiss Tool is a Spirit but only time will tell.

[Grant Lamontagne]

Good to see you putting in an appearance Swiss Man- especially since your write up was one that I quoted in the beginning!

Def

[Raukodur]

time an time again she forgives me for bringing others in the house and comparing them to her

talk about anthropomorphic personification  someone reading just that statement would start wondering what exactly the collectors here collect...

[J-sews]

time an time again she forgives me for bringing others in the house and comparing them to her

talk about anthropomorphic personification  someone reading just that statement would start wondering what exactly the collectors here collect...

 

[Grant Lamontagne]

If you think that's bad, then I wouldn't suggest asking him about his "SOG Wife" or "SAK Boyfriend."

Especially not the latter....

Def

[Dunc]

Ok I've sat back and read all the replies and now its time for my ramblings  I think the reason the Swisstool is the one that is used to judge all other full size multitools is because and this is quite simple really  It offers a complete package ! Everything works , ok they may not be the best of everything but they work and they dont break .Sure the pliers are not needle nose and are fat and squat but your glad of that when your cranking down on them as hard as you can .Sure the knife blade isnt 154cm or S30V but its dead easy to sharpen in just a few strokes and I dont see any threads about edges chipping  Sure there isnt a one hand opening blade but this would be illegal in some European countries , and would put a bulge in the top of the blade that would make using the tape measure difficult  ( didnt think of that did you  ) .Sure the philips and other screwdrivers are polished and slippy but they dont snap and the phillips is made in such a way that when you push down on the tool all the weight is in the centre .Sure the files not diamond coated but it works and the metal saw is really quite effective.Sure the handles are polished and I'm told are awkward to hold when wet but I have never had a problem with this and I've used them with wet hands once or twice  ( if they kept slipping out of my hands then I wouldnt use one ) .Ok now for the tools that are the best in their field ... The hard wire cutters , they really do work well .The can opener and bottle cap lifter , I've said this before but the swiss really know how to open food and drink .Wood saw and Scissors , have you ever heard anyone say they suck ? because they dont .Awl , all versions make holes in things time and time again ( I had a Gerber once but it only managed one hole ) .The large screwdriver/pry bar is worth its weight in gold . The tool doesnt rust very easily at all which is a big problem with some tools . Leatherman must be sick because every new titanium super tactical one hand bit changing mall ninja tool they come up with gets compared to the good old swisstool . How many times on bladeforums have you have you seen a thread that starts " my Leathermans broke " ? only just tonight some guy said the tool release button on his ST 200 had broken    Only once have I read of a swisstool  breaking and that was a guy who said his brothers pliers had snapped after holding something while welding ( I wonder why ) .I've broken gerbers and Leathermans in the past and if the swisstool ever fails me then its time to try something else .
 Just to sum up , Victorinox have been in the game long enough to know what tool combinations to put together .
Sorry to go on but thats my rambled thoughts . Of course I will be adding more later 

Dunc

[Grant Lamontagne]

Geez Dunc, this is no time to get all PC on us... let us know how you really feel!

All good points too... I can't wait to see what the "other" side comes back with....

Def

[Dunc]

Ok heres the video with a guest apperance from the Sog half way through then back to the swissstool





Dunc

[J-sews]

Wow, that was more coat hanger cuts than I've ever made with any one tool. Is there any sign of "notching" on the cutting surfaces of either one?

[Grant Lamontagne]

That poor hanger didn't stand a chance!

Was it that you were more used to the feel of the SwissTool, or that it was a better cutter that allowed so many, and faster cuts with it?

And did you feel the compound leverage made any difference?

Def

[Grant Lamontagne]

BTW Dunc- nice black bladed OHT you got there!

Def

[Tom Munch]

Dunc,

That plank that you've walked yourself out there on doesn't look too safe.  I appreciate your guts, but I can see somebody with another multitool saw starting to eye the near end of that plank. 

Tom

[Grant Lamontagne]

I dunno about that one Tom- the wood saw on the Vics ranked pretty high when I tested them all side by side:

http://www.sosakonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=115&Itemid=35

Def