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Tool Talk => Swiss Army Knights Forum => Topic started by: Grant Lamontagne on November 30, 2008, 07:18:44 PM

Title: Benner
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on November 30, 2008, 07:18:44 PM
 :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok:

(http://www.sosakonline.com/images/stories/April_08/Rescue/rescue_02.jpg)

You know you want one....

 :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok: :pok:

Def
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Roadie on November 30, 2008, 07:21:17 PM
Subtle....very subtle :D
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Benner on November 30, 2008, 07:21:59 PM
Should have posted your pic of the 2 handed version.  :D

It looks a superb tool and yes I do want one, but given the choice I'd rather have the 2 handed one as I'd feel happier carrying it.  :)
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Freudian Frog on November 30, 2008, 07:25:23 PM
Holy crap, Def. :D
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Benner on November 30, 2008, 07:28:35 PM
Holy crap, Def. :D

Def doesn't mess about.  If he's got something to say, he says it!  :D
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Dunc on November 30, 2008, 07:29:47 PM
Should have posted your pic of the 2 handed version.  :D

It looks a superb tool and yes I do want one, but given the choice I'd rather have the 2 handed one as I'd feel happier carrying it.  :)

Would you prefer black or yellow ?

Dunc
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Benner on November 30, 2008, 07:31:37 PM
Should have posted your pic of the 2 handed version.  :D

It looks a superb tool and yes I do want one, but given the choice I'd rather have the 2 handed one as I'd feel happier carrying it.  :)

Would you prefer black or yellow ?

Dunc

Has to be yellow.  :)  Both because of visability and the fact that it looks so pretty.  :D
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on November 30, 2008, 07:32:03 PM
You mean like this two hander?

(http://www.sosakonline.com/images/stories/January_08/Rescue/rescue02.jpg)

(http://www.sosakonline.com/images/stories/January_08/Rescue/rescue04.jpg)

Good luck finding one...

Def
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: daveim21 on November 30, 2008, 07:33:16 PM
they make two-handed versions? kinda useless, though.
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Benner on November 30, 2008, 07:34:14 PM
Here we go http://www.swiss-knife.com/asp/detail.asp?lan=EN&code=0.8623.N&shop=SK

Besides, you could always send me yours.  :pok:
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on November 30, 2008, 07:34:37 PM
They are very useful in jurisdictions where one handed openers are frowned upon.

Def
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: daveim21 on November 30, 2008, 07:36:05 PM
well, it takes longer to get it out to rescue someone. Sometimes those few seconds mean life or death.
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Benner on November 30, 2008, 07:36:21 PM
they make two-handed versions? kinda useless, though.

Not you as well.  ::)

Why would making the main blade make it useless?  It still has a one handed(ish) serrated blade and all the other rescue tools on there.  A OH blade on that tool is not a necessity IMO, it is just an added convenience.
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: daveim21 on November 30, 2008, 07:37:41 PM
as i said, sometimes life and death is determined by only a few seconds.
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Benner on November 30, 2008, 07:38:00 PM
well, it takes longer to get it out to rescue someone. Sometimes those few seconds mean life or death.

But you still have the same serrated blade and that would be the one I'd want to use to free someone say, who is trapped in a car for example.
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Roadie on November 30, 2008, 07:40:36 PM
But you still have the same serrated blade and that would be the one I'd want to use to free someone say, who is trapped in a car for example.

Yeah despite my humorous quip in the other thread the rescue blade is still two handed so it don't matter which version you have. :)
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Benner on November 30, 2008, 07:41:56 PM
But you still have the same serrated blade and that would be the one I'd want to use to free someone say, who is trapped in a car for example.

Yeah despite my humorous quip in the other thread the rescue blade is still two handed so it don't matter which version you have. :)

You can tell who has the brains in this place.  ;) :D
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Roadie on November 30, 2008, 07:43:14 PM
You can tell who has the brains in this place.  ;) :D

Yeah.... Flash, he's got a degree you know :pok: :D
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Dunc on November 30, 2008, 07:47:07 PM
Here we go http://www.swiss-knife.com/asp/detail.asp?lan=EN&code=0.8623.N&shop=SK

Besides, you could always send me yours.  :pok:

Thats cheaper then I thought , plus they do the spare parts .

Dunc
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Dunc on November 30, 2008, 07:51:09 PM
But you still have the same serrated blade and that would be the one I'd want to use to free someone say, who is trapped in a car for example.

Yeah despite my humorous quip in the other thread the rescue blade is still two handed so it don't matter which version you have. :)


This is how you do it  :D
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LFiThyHoTVo

Dunc
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Nikos on November 30, 2008, 08:05:15 PM
I totally agree with Benner... The implements of the Rescue Tool, being a... ummm... rescue tool, that need to be OH are the glass breaker and the seat belt cutter, which are still OH even when the main blade is not. The main advantage of an OH main blade is that you can use it with gloves on, while a nail nick requires that you are bare handed...
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Sea Monster on November 30, 2008, 08:08:32 PM
I'm not sure my reflexes are good enough that the extra 1.4 seconds gained by having a one-handed blade would actually be put to any particular use.

Do they do a two-handed serrated blade?
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on November 30, 2008, 08:10:55 PM
Yup:

(http://www.lakewoodconferences.com/direct/dbimage/50050482/Chain_Saw.jpg)

Def
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Dunc on November 30, 2008, 08:35:46 PM
I'm not a huge fan of one handers but there is a time and place for everything and on a rescue knife this is it .

Being a rescue knife doesn't mean all you do is cut peoples seat belts . I'm looking at this knife as a vehicle rescue knife . At a car crash there could be other items to be cut like roof headlinings , the rubber around the windscreen as seen in the Vic video below . What about a baby in a car seat ? the belt that holds the seat in position would need to be cut so the seat can be removed with child still in it , plastic trim ,the list goes on . A one hander is a must in these situations so you can keep your gloves on .

http://www.victorinox.ch/index.cfm?site=victorinox.ch&page=118&lang=E&id=200701091536506968

Ben I'm not saying I think you should get the one hander , I'm just saying thats why I prefer it .I understand your reason mate   :)

Dunc
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Benner on November 30, 2008, 08:46:00 PM
Dunc knows I am weak.  Look what happened with the Sebbie.  He knows that if he keeps going on I'll buckle under the pressure and go buy one.  :D
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Dunc on November 30, 2008, 08:47:09 PM
Dunc knows I am weak.  Look what happened with the Sebbie.  He knows that if he keeps going on I'll buckle under the pressure and go buy one.  :D

How could you think such a thing

 >:D


Dunc
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: hawkchucker on November 30, 2008, 09:28:59 PM
Ben dont let them talk you out of it! get the one you want. then you will hate it go on thier recomendations and send the other to me. See everyone wins.
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Nikos on November 30, 2008, 09:58:34 PM
I'm not a huge fan of one handers but there is a time and place for everything and on a rescue knife this is it .

Being a rescue knife doesn't mean all you do is cut peoples seat belts . I'm looking at this knife as a vehicle rescue knife . At a car crash there could be other items to be cut like roof headlinings , the rubber around the windscreen as seen in the Vic video below . What about a baby in a car seat ? the belt that holds the seat in position would need to be cut so the seat can be removed with child still in it , plastic trim ,the list goes on . A one hander is a must in these situations so you can keep your gloves on .
I am a fan of one handers and still believe that a two-hander rescue tool is ok. The seat-belt cutter implement, being both (a) serrated, (b) blunt tipped, and (c) one-hander, is your best bet for mostly all of these situations you describe (I definitely wouldn't want a pointed blade near a baby car seat). I mean, if you're inside the vehicle in question, you probably have no use for a pointed blade. If OTOH you're outside the vehicle, and you're not a fireman or something (so you don't have fat gloves on), a two hander is ok as well and it's surely more sheeple friendly than a OH blade... And a rescue tool that you're not afraid to carry around is a rescue tool that's probably more useful than one that's bound to stay at home... Just my €0.02 :)

These runts aside, it's Ben's decision as "only the ringtool-bearer matters"...
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: duckman1975 on December 01, 2008, 12:17:59 AM
+1 get the one you like benner. Plus everything you get multitool you want a little multitool packing Angel gets its wings  :D :D :D

Title: Re: Benner
Post by: BIG-TARGET on December 01, 2008, 01:46:41 AM
Subtle....very subtle :D
About as subtle as getting hit in the face with a brick. ::)
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Poncho65 on December 01, 2008, 03:17:24 AM
MT.O motto just get both and keep the illegal one @ home  :pok: ::) :D :D :D
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: duckman1975 on December 01, 2008, 03:48:35 AM
MT.O motto just get both and keep the illegal one @ home  :pok: ::) :D :D :D
Too bad our British friends could not carry OH in their country  :(
Benner, if you volunteer as a firefighter even not full time will you be permitted to carry the OH emergency SAK?
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Dunc on December 01, 2008, 05:40:33 AM
One handers are not illegal in the UK ! Locking blades without a reason to carry are .

Dunc
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: duckman1975 on December 01, 2008, 06:24:14 AM
One handers are not illegal in the UK ! Locking blades without a reason to carry are .

Dunc
Thanks for clearing that out. So a volunteer firefighter can carry locking blades.
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Mike, Lord of the Spammers! on December 01, 2008, 06:42:00 AM
I'm fairly sure we don't have volunteer firefighters.
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Sea Monster on December 01, 2008, 08:23:55 AM
Do the wallopers really haul you aside and say "right there son, now where's your reasoning for that there blade?"

Various blades are illegal in Oz, but I've never really had any strife over it.


To use the vernacular, the Laws are there to protect us from dickheads, so just don't be a dickhead, and you'll be fine.
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: duckman1975 on December 01, 2008, 09:49:39 AM
Do the wallopers really haul you aside and say "right there son, now where's your reasoning for that there blade?"

Various blades are illegal in Oz, but I've never really had any strife over it.


To use the vernacular, the Laws are there to protect us from dickheads, so just don't be a dickhead, and you'll be fine.
dickheads  :rofl: can never erase the mental picture  :D
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Gareth on December 01, 2008, 09:57:47 AM
I'm fairly sure we don't have volunteer firefighters.

We do in the more remote rural areas of Scotland.  I admit that isn't much use to you chaps down there. :)

Nomad, you're right in that it isn't likely people get stopped, but if you are caught then you will be charged.  Ben isn't doing anything to get around the Law, the blade is to long and it locks so he would still need a specific reason to carry it, "just in case" is to general an answer and wouldn't do.  What Ben is addressing is a public perception of knives.

I say go for the two handed opening Ben, at least you will have something a bit different.
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: hawkchucker on December 01, 2008, 10:01:15 AM
Well then since now I have a clearer sence of the law as the saying Goes "in For a Penny in for a pound" Just get the OH version of it. They cant do any more for it. 
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Sea Monster on December 01, 2008, 11:21:23 AM
Quote
Nomad, you're right in that it isn't likely people get stopped, but if you are caught then you will be charged.

That's what I'm wondering - would you really get charged, or would you just get a "keep out of trouble mate" and be sent on your way?


I've had my differences with the local police, sure enough, but generally, if you're not causing any harm, they don't crack open the little notebook just for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Neil on December 01, 2008, 01:17:01 PM
These days, you'd get charged.  Once upon a time, there would be a good chance if it looked like you weren't going to be causing bother with it, that you'd either be told to take it home or have it confiscated.  Those days are gone.

The only question now is if you'd be done for carrying an offensive weapon or the lesser charge of a sharp/pointy thing in a public space.

Neil
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Ninjaz on December 01, 2008, 01:53:09 PM
These days, you'd get charged.  Once upon a time, there would be a good chance if it looked like you weren't going to be causing bother with it, that you'd either be told to take it home or have it confiscated.  Those days are gone.

The only question now is if you'd be done for carrying an offensive weapon or the lesser charge of a sharp/pointy thing in a public space.

Neil

You can't carry any lock blade knife/tool ? Even multitools (like Leatherman) ?
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Neil on December 01, 2008, 02:16:35 PM
I'm not a lawyer but basically that's correct.  At least not without good reason.  You have to be able to prove the good reason :) 

The UK's Police National Legal Database (https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q337.htm) gives a nice clear non-mumbo jumbo explanation.

Neil

Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Ninjaz on December 01, 2008, 03:18:27 PM
I'm not a lawyer but basically that's correct.  At least not without good reason.  You have to be able to prove the good reason :) 

The UK's Police National Legal Database (https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q337.htm) gives a nice clear non-mumbo jumbo explanation.

Neil

oooo...  it says:
Quote
Possession of a multi-tool incorporating a prohibited blade/pointed article is capable of being an offence under this section even if there are other tools on the instrument which may be of use to a person in a public place (screwdriver, can opener).
So no multi-tools as well...
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Gareth on December 01, 2008, 03:45:39 PM
It's the reason I stopped carrying my Supertool and got into SAKs.  I also have a PST for the same reason; non-locking blade.
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: AndyTiedye on December 01, 2008, 04:14:12 PM
You'd think not wanting to have the thing fold up and cut your fingers off would be a "good reason".

Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Benner on December 01, 2008, 05:18:55 PM
I'm fairly sure we don't have volunteer firefighters.

We do in the more remote rural areas of Scotland.  I admit that isn't much use to you chaps down there. :)

Nomad, you're right in that it isn't likely people get stopped, but if you are caught then you will be charged.  Ben isn't doing anything to get around the Law, the blade is to long and it locks so he would still need a specific reason to carry it, "just in case" is to general an answer and wouldn't do.  What Ben is addressing is a public perception of knives.

I say go for the two handed opening Ben, at least you will have something a bit different.

Gareth, that is exactly what I was saying.  :)

You'd think not wanting to have the thing fold up and cut your fingers off would be a "good reason".



You would think so huh.  ::)  But here, adding the lock makes it into a ninjas stabby weapon.
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Neil on December 01, 2008, 05:45:43 PM
Somewhere in the last few decades, carrying a pocket knife changed you from being perceived as a prepared Scout to being a Teenage Ninja Hooded Terrorist. :(

Neil
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Mike, Lord of the Spammers! on December 01, 2008, 06:37:29 PM
There's a good reason why all us Brits have an unnatural attraction to Saks :-\
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Neil on December 01, 2008, 07:29:52 PM
There's a good reason why all us Brits have an unnatural attraction to Saks :-\

True, but even then you have to be careful not to scare readers of certain lower quality opinionpapers.  Oh lets not go here again, its just too depressing  :cry:  <multitool.org is a happy place, multitool.org is a happy place, ...>

Neil
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Mike, Lord of the Spammers! on December 01, 2008, 09:59:30 PM
There's a good reason why all us Brits have an unnatural attraction to Saks :-\

True, but even then you have to be careful not to scare readers of certain lower quality opinionpapers.  Oh lets not go here again, its just too depressing  :cry:  <multitool.org is a happy place, multitool.org is a happy place, ...>

Neil
I'm glad there's at least one other paranoid bunny here to keep me company :D
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Neil on December 01, 2008, 10:41:22 PM
Just because your paranoid doesn't mean ... (http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/NKB_Pocket_Tools/smileys/icon_blahblah.gif)

Neil
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Mike, Lord of the Spammers! on December 01, 2008, 10:43:17 PM
Just because your paranoid doesn't mean ... (http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/NKB_Pocket_Tools/smileys/icon_blahblah.gif)

Neil
Paranoia is a health state of mind, because you believe your important enough for someone to want to harm you :D
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Neil on December 01, 2008, 10:45:16 PM
Or inconsequential enough to be casually swatted aside  :-\

Neil
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Mike, Lord of the Spammers! on December 01, 2008, 10:51:41 PM
Or inconsequential enough to be casually swatted aside  :-\

Neil
Me....inconsequential ???, NEVER :D
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Neil on December 01, 2008, 11:02:51 PM
I admire your spirit in the face of adversity. :)

Neil
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on December 01, 2008, 11:53:44 PM
So, Ben, you order one yet?  :D  :pok:

Def
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Benner on December 01, 2008, 11:55:26 PM
Nope.  So far I have behaved myself.  :angel:
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on December 02, 2008, 12:25:28 AM
Keep doing that and you'll have to ban yourself!  :D

Def
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Sea Monster on December 02, 2008, 10:42:14 AM
Quote
Teenage Ninja Hooded Terrorist


Can I get that as a button, or a bumper sticker, or something?
Title: Re: Benner
Post by: Neil on December 02, 2008, 10:46:16 AM
Quote
Teenage Ninja Hooded Terrorist


Can I get that as a button, or a bumper sticker, or something?


Sorry, that should be Teenage Ninja Hooded TerroristTM

 :D You heard it here first ;)

Neil