Post by: Fronta on March 18, 2010, 08:58:09 AM
Abbreviations:
==========
"KL" - "Koninklijke Landmacht" - Royal Netherlands Army (RNLA)
"KM" - "Koninklijke Marine" - Royal Netherlands Navy (the knife I'm looking for... ) :ahhh
1. Old unnumbered DAK (Amefa), the WWII issue?
2. DAK "KL61" (Amefa), the issue 1961
3. DAK "KL65" (Amefa), the issue 1965
4. Unknown issue (no stamp on the blade) - "KL" on the front scale
5. DAK "KL81" (Amefa), the issue 1981
6. DAK "KL90" (Victorinox) model of the 1983, the issue 1990
7. DAK "KL91" (Victorinox) model of the 1983, the issue 1991
8. DAK Victorinox - model of the 1993
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HPdnwvqII/AAAAAAAAJNQ/feaWnYLwEj8/s800/SDC10211.JPG)
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HPhlhM2aI/AAAAAAAAJNU/e2GC5RvD8y0/s800/SDC10213.JPG)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HPlUs4QtI/AAAAAAAAJNY/j0JHOC7ykIY/s800/SDC10214.JPG)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HPot4vv-I/AAAAAAAAJNc/nvpVcWQMH6c/s800/SDC10215.JPG)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HPsilvIWI/AAAAAAAAJNg/VPAM4hs1lxE/s800/SDC10216.JPG)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HPwxmY_oI/AAAAAAAAJNk/_8gK7ITYWyc/s800/SDC10217.JPG)
Old unnumbered DAK (Amefa), the issue WWII?
| (http://lh6.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6Hwmqh-ShI/AAAAAAAAJPM/QpVTJM16z7A/s720/SDC10223.JPG) | (http://lh5.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HwvLivxzI/AAAAAAAAJPQ/iziI1jfi8wM/s720/SDC10226.JPG) |
| (http://lh5.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6Hwzf_momI/AAAAAAAAJPU/eHEFj4iK3tU/s720/SDC10227.JPG) | (http://lh3.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6Hw3Ict0DI/AAAAAAAAJPY/AiyRXPP3ZPM/s720/SDC10229.JPG) |
DAK "KL65" (Amefa), the issue 1965
| (http://lh5.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HxX3Z4wsI/AAAAAAAAJQI/VGS9H3CqF5U/s720/SDC10237.JPG) | (http://lh6.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HxdSAPgLI/AAAAAAAAJQQ/mzM4_-wTBnw/s720/SDC10240.JPG) |
| (http://lh6.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6Hxhlfy3WI/AAAAAAAAJQU/KrY6v9NkoCY/s720/SDC10242.JPG) | (http://lh5.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HxmK5zUEI/AAAAAAAAJQY/PVDGAUV8vHE/s720/SDC10243.JPG) |
Unknown issue (no stamp on the blade) - "KL" on the front scale
| (http://lh5.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6Hw9NVTW4I/AAAAAAAAJPc/NXHQ7nBK-Qg/s720/SDC10232.JPG) | (http://lh5.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HxETeOLtI/AAAAAAAAJPg/RfRDMK0ZBHw/s720/SDC10234.JPG) |
| (http://lh6.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HxLUaH7pI/AAAAAAAAJPk/y-Zm8C7CwaU/s720/SDC10235.JPG) | (http://lh4.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HxQJ9qL1I/AAAAAAAAJQA/5KoZfaON8dM/s720/SDC10236.JPG) |
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HP1ugNx6I/AAAAAAAAJNo/qx0--cJSL1s/s800/SDC10218.JPG)
DAK "KL81" (Amefa), the issue 1981
| (http://lh4.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6H0kHKqFBI/AAAAAAAAJRc/BnMNBXpRlXg/s720/SDC10245.JPG) | (http://lh4.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6H0pajhWJI/AAAAAAAAJRg/ITpZbZIOx8Y/s720/SDC10248.JPG) |
| (http://lh6.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6H0tvrGeSI/AAAAAAAAJRk/c_UQjfOcW3w/s720/SDC10249.JPG) | (http://lh3.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6H0zA3RQRI/AAAAAAAAJRo/RiqaLQMMI1M/s720/SDC10252.JPG) |
DAK "KL90" (Victorinox) model of the 1983, the issue 1990
| (http://lh4.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HzGm8AneI/AAAAAAAAJQ4/L79gInhxt2o/s912/DAK%20KL%2090%201.JPG) | (http://lh4.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HzIsngGNI/AAAAAAAAJQ8/K7lxYo13Slw/s912/DAK%20KL%2090%202.JPG) |
| (http://lh5.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HzKDbnx2I/AAAAAAAAJRA/rDG4JmUe-c0/s912/DAK%20KL%2090%203.JPG) | (http://lh5.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HzLltN5wI/AAAAAAAAJRE/dxKZMQFo8kE/s912/DAK%20KL%2090%204.JPG) |
(http://lh4.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HP-3OXQNI/AAAAAAAAJNw/EMmZaGqLeXU/s800/SDC10222.JPG)
DAK Victorinox - model of the 1993
| (http://lh3.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HzN4WmD6I/AAAAAAAAJRI/Dw_NE8cy6LM/s720/DAK%201.JPG) | (http://lh4.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HzP6DfAoI/AAAAAAAAJRM/u06N4DhORPw/s720/DAK%202.JPG) |
| (http://lh4.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HzRSrZPNI/AAAAAAAAJRQ/jUFD6I0Dtz4/s720/DAK%203.JPG) | (http://lh4.ggpht.com/_7QrBjS_gd2A/S6HzS1SfBaI/AAAAAAAAJRU/5-xY39xhkCU/s720/DAK%204.JPG) |
DAK 2010 - Victorinox "Dual Pro"
54836 US Model number
0.8371.MWC Victorinox AN
(pictures from "duder" :cheers:, published on SAKWiki.com (http://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Dual+Pro&highlight=DAK))
(http://sakwiki.com/show_image.php?id=1178&scalesize=0&nocount=y)
(http://sakwiki.com/show_image.php?id=1179)
Post by: Mike, Lord of the Spammers! on March 18, 2010, 10:19:53 AM
Post by: duder on March 18, 2010, 10:38:36 AM
I like the pictures of the new DAK, especially because they are my fotos of my knife on my jeans jacket :D .
Post by: Fronta on March 18, 2010, 10:49:30 AM
Nice collection !
I like the pictures of the new DAK, especially because they are my fotos of my knife on my jeans jacket :D .
Updated, mate! :cheers:
Post by: duder on March 18, 2010, 11:04:30 AM
By the way: Yesterday I got a reply from Victorinox concerning some questions about knives for the dutch army. One of my questions was if there really were alox-knives with the letters KM on the scales. But in their listing was no such knife. Though it was not a clear answer to my question, it looks like there are no knives with the letters "KM". Also I have never seen any, just heard rumors.
Have you really seen such an alox knife ? Or do you have proof that such a knife exists ?
Post by: Fronta on March 18, 2010, 11:11:19 AM
Thanks ! :cheers: (I hope it did not look like self-praise :think:)
By the way: Yesterday I got a reply from Victorinox concerning some questions about knives for the dutch army. One of my questions was if there really were alox-knives with the letters KM on the scales. But in their listing was no such knife. Though it was not a clear answer to my question, it looks like there are no knives with the letters "KM". Also I have never seen any, just heard rumors.
Have you really seen such an alox knife ? Or do you have proof that such a knife exists ?
I never seen the "KM" knives :think: - what I've got - only the info from different Internet sources, that the knives exist. My guess, they could be made by Amefa.
Post by: duder on March 18, 2010, 11:22:12 AM
Post by: Fronta on March 18, 2010, 11:30:41 AM
That`s possible. I have seen boxes full of old dutch alox knives on a fleamarket in Amsterdam, but none of them had "KM" on the scales (and they were all in very bad shape).
Lucky you, here in Australia no much good old knives on flea-markets at all :cry:, only modern junk from China...
Post by: Chako on March 18, 2010, 01:40:33 PM
Post by: 1jump2many on March 18, 2010, 05:53:06 PM
(http://sakwiki.com/show_image.php?id=1179)
The Dual Pro X and the New DAK are the SAK's I've been wanting the most. Nice collection Fronta.
Post by: Katran73 on June 13, 2010, 06:46:46 PM
Fronta, I think that 0.8371.MWC this wrong designation of the Vic DAK-2010.
This designation of the "civil" Dual-Pro (also as 54836 US Nr.), and "C" means the Scales of Grip Series (http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/5/600885-s14744188.html).
I think the DAK-2010 should be designated approximately as 0.8371.MW4NL, by analogy with GAK 0.8461.MW4DE, but I yet have not found to it acknowledgement.
Post by: kwakster on July 23, 2010, 11:56:44 AM
On the Dutch forum we have a guy who literally owns almost all of the alox versions from every year they were ever made.
Maybe he even has extra's, i dont know.
Not only do i live in Apeldoorn, the same town the Amefa factory is situated, i also must have one of these alox knives somewhere since i served in the Dutch Army long ago. (83-84)
One of these days i will see if i can find it, but i'm actually not sure if it's an Amefa or a Victorinox.
By the way; Amefa is the abbreviation of "Apeldoornse Messen Fabriek", or "Apeldoorn Knife Factory" in English.
Greetz,
Kwakster
Post by: Neil on July 23, 2010, 12:05:53 PM
Post by: Guardian on July 23, 2010, 01:19:32 PM
Post by: 1jump2many on July 23, 2010, 11:09:05 PM
So when and where can we actually buy the new DAK!!! My Military 111mm collection is crying out for it :D
You and me, both. I check eBay from time to time but nothing. If anyone has one of the new Dual Pro 111mm DAK's in new condition let me know. Thanks
Post by: Spork, Lord of Lime Jello! on July 24, 2010, 02:58:45 AM
Post by: Spork, Lord of Lime Jello! on July 24, 2010, 03:06:31 AM
Post by: Reinier on August 09, 2010, 06:51:10 PM
Post by: Fronta on August 10, 2010, 02:00:43 AM
Where did you get that KL81? I would really like to own one myself (it's my birth year) :)
All knives came from eBay...
Post by: nuphoria on August 10, 2010, 11:28:20 AM
I love the Alox especially, just because it's Alox! :D
Post by: Zag on August 15, 2010, 12:09:33 AM
Victorinox with Bail instead of keyring
(http://i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp350/zagabul/DSC01496.jpg)
Post by: Aloxfan on August 15, 2010, 08:57:27 PM
Post by: Neil on August 16, 2010, 12:51:22 AM
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/NKB_Pocket_Tools/goodiesfromdunc.jpg)
Post by: stressmaster5000 on August 18, 2010, 08:40:48 PM
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/DAKKL70-01.jpg)(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/DAKKL70-03.jpg)(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/DAKKL70-04.jpg)
Post by: pthycrpg on February 01, 2011, 01:54:27 AM
Post by: duder on February 01, 2011, 12:00:47 PM
Post by: Reinier on February 01, 2011, 02:29:56 PM
I've never seen a KLU or KM knife in real life! Those are nice, especially the KM87 :drool:
Post by: pthycrpg on February 02, 2011, 06:18:54 AM
Post by: Jack Russell on February 02, 2011, 08:50:28 PM
Last year we disussed in this thread whether KM-stamped alox DAKs exist or not. Meanwhile I had found one. I had already posted this picture in a different thread but I think it fits in here well. After I found it I asked Victorinox again about these knives but they have absolutely no information about the KM knives. They assume that these were probably only made in 1987.
Duder
Are the scales date stamped at the Factory? or are they Stamped by the armoureres after issue do they say ?
Mike.
Post by: duder on February 02, 2011, 09:16:39 PM
I did not get this information from Victorinox, but I just took a closer look at the stamps on my DAKs. I`m very sure that the scales were stamped before the anodizing. That would mean they must be stamped before the knives were assembled. And I`m sure it would not be possible to make such big stamps on a complete knife, I guess the pressure needed would be too high.
One more thing I noticed: The letters and numbers on the KL83 to KL89 knives seem to be actually stamped into the scales but the letters and numbers on the KL90 to KL92 knives are obviously milled out of the scales.
Post by: Stirling3749 on February 02, 2011, 10:07:34 PM
I really like the new dual pro ones. so cool. :D
Post by: Jack Russell on February 02, 2011, 10:25:17 PM
Mike
Post by: duder on February 02, 2011, 11:25:52 PM
1983 - 77.400
1984 - none
1985 - 43.000
1986 - 75.250
1987 - 87.000
1988 - 67.000
1989 - 112.000
1990 - 66.725
1991 - 71.147
1992 - 66.150
That makes an average production of about 74.000 knives per year.
Interesting to see that there were no Victorinox knives in 1984, but I`ve seen Amefa knives of this year. I`m not sure if Amefa also made knives in the Victorinox years (I concentrate on Victorinox knives only).
What I also noticed: So far all the KL83 knives I`ve seen had brass liners. But I`m not sure if all of them had these.
Post by: Jack Russell on February 03, 2011, 09:46:44 PM
Post by: stressmaster5000 on February 03, 2011, 09:54:04 PM
Post by: Jack Russell on February 05, 2011, 08:06:35 PM
I have an Amefa alox KL82 with brass liners and a bail. Sounds like you might be right.
[/quote
Strange dont you think that Amefa had the contract first and yet were able to make a copy of the victorinox Pioneer apart from the tin opener and the silver cross that is?
The KL83 has a bail BTW
Post by: stressmaster5000 on February 08, 2011, 12:14:47 AM
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/DAKKL82-01.jpg)(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/th_DAKKL82-02.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/?action=view¤t=DAKKL82-02.jpg)(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/th_DAKKL82-06.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/?action=view¤t=DAKKL82-06.jpg)(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/th_DAKKL82-07.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/?action=view¤t=DAKKL82-07.jpg)(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/th_DAKKL82-08.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/?action=view¤t=DAKKL82-08.jpg)(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/th_DAKKL82-09.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/?action=view¤t=DAKKL82-09.jpg)(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/th_DAKKL82-10.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/?action=view¤t=DAKKL82-10.jpg)(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/th_DAKKL82-03.jpg) (http://s220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/?action=view¤t=DAKKL82-03.jpg)
Post by: stressmaster5000 on February 08, 2011, 12:18:56 AM
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd39/stressmaster5000/Other%20Brand%20name%20knives/DAKKL82-05-rivet.jpg)
Post by: Gareth on February 13, 2011, 05:10:09 PM
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss260/gareth_SAKs/multitools/067.jpg)
Post by: cannonball on February 13, 2011, 05:30:13 PM
If my memory is correct, the results were that the Dutch Army was required to buy only from Victorinox.
Post by: Reinier on April 03, 2011, 10:13:47 PM
And it wasn't even in mint condition :)
Post by: e17 on April 04, 2011, 03:21:18 AM
I think now I want a DAK, too. :D
Post by: jazzbass on April 04, 2011, 03:58:57 AM
Wow, a KM87 knife just went for $187.50 on eBay :ahhh :ahhhI was actually surprised it went for so little. I expected > $300.
And it wasn't even in mint condition :)
Post by: Cyclone82 on April 04, 2011, 05:22:30 AM
Post by: pthycrpg on April 04, 2011, 06:17:03 AM
Post by: Cyclone82 on April 04, 2011, 11:39:27 AM
Post by: Reinier on April 04, 2011, 12:57:54 PM
oooh :gimme: im after one of those pouches. Did they only come with the 1993 version or the 2010 too? Reiner :pok:
;)
I've seen them on sale somewhere, but I can't remember where...
Your packages is already on its way so it's too late to add one :D
Post by: Cyclone82 on April 04, 2011, 01:08:21 PM
Post by: Guardian on April 04, 2011, 07:18:33 PM
Post by: pthycrpg on April 05, 2011, 05:10:02 AM
http://cgi.ebay.ca/DPM-Camo-Carabiner-Knife-Pouch-/150458535478?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2308070e36 (http://cgi.ebay.ca/DPM-Camo-Carabiner-Knife-Pouch-/150458535478?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item2308070e36)
Good luck
Post by: Cyclone82 on April 05, 2011, 10:51:24 AM
Post by: pthycrpg on April 05, 2011, 11:23:09 PM
Post by: Cyclone82 on April 09, 2011, 11:41:08 AM
Here is the 1993 - ???? one
(http://www.edcsource.com/thumbnail.php?pic=uplimg/img_100267_abe256cda6c45408ff9b8809d8339c7a.jpg&w=500&sq=Y&b=Y)
Here is the 2010 - with dual one hand opening blades
(http://www.vicfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/victorinox-dutch-army-knife-2010-01.jpg)
and here is a mystery one that i think is 2001-2007? It doesn't have a one hand opening serated blade. Is it a Victorinox? Is it a real DAK? can anyone confirm what it is?
(http://static.marktplaza.nl/images/1/87/7281287.jpg)
Post by: Gareth on April 09, 2011, 11:47:33 AM
http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Parachutist (http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Parachutist)
Post by: duder on April 09, 2011, 11:49:54 AM
There was an article about the knife on Sosakonline, this one:
http://www.sosakonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=326&Itemid=35 (http://www.sosakonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=326&Itemid=35)
It seems it was really issued to the dutch army for a while, but now they got the new DAK by Victorinox.
Post by: Cyclone82 on April 09, 2011, 11:51:03 AM
EDIT response to duder
I don think its the Van Zwaneberg one
Here is the link i found it at.
http://www.mreinfo.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3423 (http://www.mreinfo.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3423)
appears someone has one has said its a Vic
If we can get a second one for reference as evidence, then can we get it up on sakwiki under the OH parachutist under 'variants'?
Post by: duder on April 09, 2011, 12:06:00 PM
I`m very sure it`s not a Victorinox knife. Victorinox even had a copyright problem with the Van Zwanenburg company (as far as I know).
Post by: Cyclone82 on April 09, 2011, 12:24:41 PM
Post by: duder on April 09, 2011, 12:40:06 PM
Many times people describe knives as Victorinox knives because they look like Victorinox from a distance. It often happens in ebay for example.
Post by: Cyclone82 on April 09, 2011, 12:56:32 PM
Post by: duder on April 09, 2011, 01:11:16 PM
Post by: Cyclone82 on April 09, 2011, 01:57:31 PM
Post by: Gareth on April 09, 2011, 02:04:08 PM
Post by: Reinier on April 09, 2011, 07:31:52 PM
Wheres Reinier when you need him :)
Reinier was very busy today disassembling/removing a kitchen (with help from a SwissTool and a CyberTool!) :D
And that's my couch in the 2010 picture :D
Ok so you're 100% sure Vic only made the Centurion DAK and current Dual Pro Dak?
Yes, and Duder is right. But, I heard rumors that the Dutch military have also used regular, black Centurion knives for a short period, somewhere between the Van Zwanenburg knife and the 2010 Victorinox model.
ok :D I will have to get one of those Van zwandenberg ones. Not sure if they are hard to get now from surplus stores or what ever.
They are not very hard to get. It's Van Zwanenberg by the way. I've seen them in at least 2 surplus stores. But I'm not allowed to go there anymore (thanks to
I'll let you know if I find one in good condition. Mind you, the build quality is very poor!
Post by: Cyclone82 on April 10, 2011, 05:51:48 AM
Please keep an eye out for a new or used Van Zwanenberg DAK for me. Cheers.
Post by: duder on April 13, 2011, 11:56:10 PM
Post by: Guardian on April 19, 2011, 12:11:46 AM
http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?121742-DAK-Victorinox-Centurion (http://www.britishblades.com/forums/showthread.php?121742-DAK-Victorinox-Centurion)
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 19, 2011, 01:14:58 AM
I'm embarassed to show it here. By the way, I don't own one, it's just a pic from the internet. I saw these once at a market, and they look just as awful in real life ... :-[.
(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/Rikske77/Zakmes_ABL.jpg)
Post by: Sazabi on April 19, 2011, 01:20:11 AM
The Dutch army sure has some nice equipment, have you guys ever seen a Belgian Army pocket knife ... ::)
I'm embarassed to show it here. By the way, I don't own one, it's just a pic from the internet. I saw these once at a market, and they look just as awful in real life ... :-[.
(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/Rikske77/Zakmes_ABL.jpg)
While I can't vouch for the quality, Joseph Rodgers still makes an Army Jack Knife of that same make, if you're looking for a modern (new) one. :)
Post by: Sparky415 on September 08, 2013, 06:00:33 PM
I picked this one up today at the carboot sale,
Dutch Air Force knife (Thanks for identifying it for me :tu: )
:cheers:
Post by: Grathr on September 08, 2013, 06:08:45 PM
Post by: Reinier on September 08, 2013, 06:14:56 PM
Post by: Sparky415 on September 08, 2013, 06:18:14 PM
Its a real nail breaker, I've fed it some mineral oil to see if that helps :-\
I picked up a couple of interesting things today (carboot thread) :)
Post by: Aloha on December 13, 2013, 10:11:50 PM
Post by: Aloha on December 13, 2013, 10:14:33 PM
Post by: Osos on January 23, 2014, 03:16:26 PM
Photos was made for article about DAK knives that I writen, but it is in polish language.
Maybe one day I will translate it. ;)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407397002.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407396997.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407396999.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407396994.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407396979.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407396972.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407396976.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407396948.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407397006.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407397012.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407397011.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407396993.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407396991.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407396987.jpg)
Post by: Reinier on January 23, 2014, 04:20:16 PM
Oh I guess that was already mentioned in this thread.
Post by: enki_ck on January 23, 2014, 07:47:24 PM
The DAK I find most interesting is the Amefa from '74 for its unique tool loadout not seen in Vic ALOX models.
Post by: Osos on January 23, 2014, 08:02:34 PM
Nice! There are a lot of different versions of those brown Amefa ones. Also, the Fosco DAK was never issued. The Zwanenberg model is a piece of junk, no offense ;)
Oh I guess that was already mentioned in this thread.
I know ;).
Regarding brown:
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407396954.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407396952.jpg)
And about Fosco, did you saw this one?:
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/408356653.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/408356658.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/408356654.jpg)
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/408356656.jpg)
But regarding me, it is some re-edition, made at China version. I saw the same model, but with "US Army" stamp.
Anyway I put it as a curiosity.
Nice ones osos. :cheers:
The DAK I find most interesting is the Amefa from '74 for its unique tool loadout not seen in Vic ALOX models.
The only one that missing in my collecion is KLu74, but KL74 is in correct place ;):
(http://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/407396962.jpg)
Post by: papercut on January 24, 2014, 07:17:51 AM
Post by: Reinier on January 27, 2014, 01:19:39 PM
Post by: Philby on January 27, 2014, 05:40:48 PM
Anyone got one, seen one?
Post by: Reinier on January 27, 2014, 05:55:43 PM
There is a member here who has one. Can't remember who but I did steal his pics: :facepalm:
(http://www.vicfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/victorinox-klu-saks.jpg)
Edit: it's Duder's knife.
Post by: Philby on January 27, 2014, 06:01:37 PM
Never seen one in the flesh. It's my holy grail.:drool: :drool: :drool:
There is a member here who has one. Can't remember who but I did steal his pics: :facepalm:
(http://www.vicfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/victorinox-klu-saks.jpg)
Post by: edursr on January 27, 2014, 06:27:31 PM
Here's my DAK, I get to keep this one, as it was a pressie :D:D
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn153/NKB_Pocket_Tools/goodiesfromdunc.jpg)
Neil, I love your "dioramas", always very nice to see!!! :tu:
Post by: Reinier on January 27, 2014, 07:04:48 PM
Post by: enki_ck on January 27, 2014, 07:16:03 PM
Too bad he hasn't been around for a long time.
Yes, I miss him. :(
When I saw in Tapatalk edursr quoting Neil I thought he'd come back. :ahhh
Post by: ColoSwiss on January 27, 2014, 08:53:16 PM
Reading up on the master craftsman, sak wiki states that the Dutch navy and Air Force had a blue alox version http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Master+Craftsman
Anyone got one, seen one?
I have the Dutch navy version.
Post by: Reinier on January 27, 2014, 09:02:38 PM
It says "Property of the Royal Navy". You are not supposed to have that, you should send it to me so I can return it to them :whistle:
Post by: ColoSwiss on January 27, 2014, 09:08:27 PM
It looks in great condition!
It says "Property of the Royal Navy". You are not supposed to have that, you should send it to me so I can return it to them :whistle:
I'm just real glad there's an ocean and a continent between you and it. :D
Post by: enki_ck on January 27, 2014, 09:14:16 PM
It looks in great condition!
It says "Property of the Royal Navy". You are not supposed to have that, you should send it to me so I can return it to them :whistle:
:rofl:
:D
Post by: Reinier on January 27, 2014, 09:19:07 PM
It looks in great condition!
It says "Property of the Royal Navy". You are not supposed to have that, you should send it to me so I can return it to them :whistle:
I'm just real glad there's an ocean and a continent between you and it. :D
:D
Actually we are planning a vacation in Wyoming, that's pretty close...
Post by: ColoSwiss on January 27, 2014, 09:26:52 PM
It looks in great condition!
It says "Property of the Royal Navy". You are not supposed to have that, you should send it to me so I can return it to them :whistle:
I'm just real glad there's an ocean and a continent between you and it. :D
:D
Actually we are planning a vacation in Wyoming, that's pretty close...
AAAAHHH!!! :ahhh
Post by: Osos on January 27, 2014, 09:33:25 PM
It looks in great condition!
It says "Property of the Royal Navy". You are not supposed to have that, you should send it to me so I can return it to them :whistle:
I'm just real glad there's an ocean and a continent between you and it. :D
:D
Actually we are planning a vacation in Wyoming, that's pretty close...
AAAAHHH!!! :ahhh
Better hide it Colo Swiss deep inside your basement ;).
Great knife, I'm jealous to. :cheers:.
Post by: wonderwolf on February 08, 2014, 03:28:24 PM
Post by: Reinier on February 08, 2014, 03:57:44 PM
I'm still looking for one of the Duel pro style DAK.....hard to find now it seems....might just have to settle on a duel pro to carry me over. I like the 111mm frames and wanted to add to my GAK some other military 111mm's
I have a NIB one; I was planning on (finally) keeping one... but PM me if you are interested.
Post by: Osos on February 11, 2014, 09:59:31 AM
Richard Herder (Solingen) is a four-pointed star mark. The company, founded in 1885, operates to this day.
Wooden handles, with one side bolster, copper liner in the middle, the end of the band, a 90-degree "click" blade.
* Length open 168mm
* closed 95mm
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1122/13061022/24325283/408750126.jpg)
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1122/13061022/24325283/408750415.jpg)
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1122/13061022/24325283/408750416.jpg)
Post by: Reinier on February 11, 2014, 10:04:06 AM
Edit: yes I recognize his pictures :)
Post by: Osos on February 11, 2014, 06:41:21 PM
Nice, probably another one from Willem?
Edit: yes I recognize his pictures :)
Yes, I steal 2 of his photos :-P
Post by: burnside on February 12, 2014, 07:37:00 AM
I have an itch for a 91 Vic DAK. :drool:
Post by: Reinier on February 12, 2014, 08:53:33 AM
(http://www.vicfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/victorinox-bo-spirit-s-dutch-army-01.jpg)
(http://www.vicfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/victorinox-bo-spirit-s-dutch-army-02.jpg)
Post by: twiliter on February 12, 2014, 08:39:54 PM
Post by: twiliter on February 12, 2014, 08:42:45 PM
Post by: Reinier on February 12, 2014, 11:12:12 PM
BTW, good luck with the DAK auction Reinier! :tu:
Thanks mate! :cheers:
Post by: Reinier on February 12, 2014, 11:38:27 PM
Nice, probably another one from Willem?
Edit: yes I recognize his pictures :)
Yes, I steal 2 of his photos :-P
Very cool knife by the way. I had never seen one like that before but I like it (I actually fondled a little with your knife a while ago ;) ).
Post by: Osos on February 16, 2014, 12:17:43 PM
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1122/13061022/24518083/408787325.jpg)
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1122/13061022/24518083/408787330.jpg)
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1122/13061022/24518083/408787331.jpg)
Post by: edingg on April 21, 2014, 10:25:35 PM
Post by: Joe58 on April 22, 2014, 12:58:56 AM
I've been looking for a clean Vic alox model for awhile but haven't had any luck. Awhile back I passed on one or two but now I wish I wouldn't.
Great pics and a lot of good info in this thread!
Joe
Post by: edingg on April 26, 2014, 02:27:59 PM
I found this amefa today, it has just the letters KL no numbers and the two picks are at oposite sides of the house... annyone no annything about that?
scored today at kingsday in the netherlands for 1 euro
Post by: Reinier on April 26, 2014, 04:40:57 PM
Post by: SAK Guy on April 26, 2014, 05:13:13 PM
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/FamilyPortrait_zpse9322292.jpg)
Post by: edingg on April 26, 2014, 05:55:01 PM
Nice find. I found zero SAKs today at King's Day market.
To bad better luck next time... ;) i was at Hoorn there was a guy with a collection, he sad he attended fleemarkets around Hoorn as wel
Post by: Osos on June 20, 2014, 10:21:38 AM
"Instalex" is company that selling steel. Located same address like Amefa, and this knife was probably stamped Instalex to inform from where steel was used.
(http://kosa.net.pl/attachments/Image/DAK/DSC_0710.JPG)
(http://kosa.net.pl/attachments/Image/DAK/DSC_0712.JPG)
(http://kosa.net.pl/attachments/Image/DAK/DSC_0713.JPG)
(http://kosa.net.pl/attachments/Image/DAK/instalex.JPG)
Post by: Osos on July 04, 2014, 10:04:35 PM
(http://kosa.net.pl/attachments/Image/DAK/amsterdam4_wm.JPG)
(http://kosa.net.pl/attachments/Image/DAK/amsterdam3_wm.JPG)
(http://kosa.net.pl/attachments/Image/DAK/amsterdam2_wm.JPG)
(http://kosa.net.pl/attachments/Image/DAK/amsterdam_wm.JPG)
Post by: Osos on August 15, 2014, 08:29:12 PM
(http://kosa.net.pl/attachments/Image/DAK/DSC_0763_wm.JPG)
(http://kosa.net.pl/attachments/Image/DAK/DSC_0760_wm.JPG)
(http://kosa.net.pl/attachments/Image/DAK/DSC_0764_wm.JPG)
And wird Amefa from 50'. Some modification of tools. I thought it was home made modification, but on knife is no sign on disassembling and assembling. Besides in case of modification, handles and liners need to be slightly changed.
Up - normal version
(http://kosa.net.pl/attachments/Image/DAK/zamienione_narzedzia/DSC_0758_wm.JPG)
(http://kosa.net.pl/attachments/Image/DAK/zamienione_narzedzia/DSC_0759_wm.JPG)
(http://kosa.net.pl/attachments/Image/DAK/zamienione_narzedzia/DSC_0760_wm.JPG)
(http://kosa.net.pl/attachments/Image/DAK/zamienione_narzedzia/DSC_0761_wm.JPG)
Post by: Osos on August 15, 2016, 12:21:15 PM
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/412717473.jpg)
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/412717474.jpg)
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/22465414/412357878.jpg)
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/22465414/412357879.jpg)
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1122/13061022/24325283/412420775.jpg)
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1122/13061022/24325283/412417487.jpg)
Post by: SAK Guy on August 15, 2016, 02:42:53 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on August 15, 2016, 08:14:01 PM
:like: Very nice!!!
+1 I :like: those pics very much Osos :cheers:
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on August 15, 2016, 08:26:36 PM
I will reviev a little bit this topic.
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/412717473.jpg)
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/412717474.jpg)
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/22465414/412357878.jpg)
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/22465414/412357879.jpg)
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1122/13061022/24325283/412420775.jpg)
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1122/13061022/24325283/412417487.jpg)
Great! :salute:
Post by: m47mu74nt on October 02, 2016, 06:50:42 PM
(http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21658.0;attach=287988) (http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,21658.msg1355878.html#msg1355878)
Post by: cali-SAK-attack on October 03, 2016, 12:38:12 AM
Post by: jaya_man on October 03, 2016, 08:16:51 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161003/eac5473bf6e65de06e7e90feed541e3d.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on October 03, 2016, 10:07:25 AM
These are the DAKs i currently have...
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161003/eac5473bf6e65de06e7e90feed541e3d.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's great! :salute:
Post by: jaya_man on October 03, 2016, 11:31:53 AM
:salute:These are the DAKs i currently have...
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161003/eac5473bf6e65de06e7e90feed541e3d.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's great! :salute:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: jaya_man on October 11, 2016, 04:03:50 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Ron Who on October 11, 2016, 05:38:33 PM
Just wanted to ask, is the knife on the right side of the picture genuine? Looks like a One Handed Trekker (left handed)Looks genuine to me. It would be an early one, judging by the elongated thumb hole.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Edit: I can't imagine a copycat producing lefthanders, as the market for these would be quite smallish..
Post by: jaya_man on October 11, 2016, 06:43:09 PM
didn't know there was a DAK version for the OHT. Thx for the help. :cheers:Just wanted to ask, is the knife on the right side of the picture genuine? Looks like a One Handed Trekker (left handed)Looks genuine to me. It would be an early one, judging by the elongated thumb hole.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Edit: I can't imagine a copycat producing lefthanders, as the market for these would be quite smallish..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Ron Who on October 11, 2016, 07:02:53 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see other models with DAK scales. It's the first time I see a lefthander though. What about the tang stamps? Vic or Zwanenburg?didn't know there was a DAK version for the OHT. Thx for the help. :cheers:Just wanted to ask, is the knife on the right side of the picture genuine? Looks like a One Handed Trekker (left handed)Looks genuine to me. It would be an early one, judging by the elongated thumb hole.
Edit: I can't imagine a copycat producing lefthanders, as the market for these would be quite smallish..
Post by: gene stoner on October 11, 2016, 08:56:35 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see other models with DAK scales. It's the first time I see a lefthander though. What about the tang stamps? Vic or Zwanenburg?didn't know there was a DAK version for the OHT. Thx for the help. :cheers:Just wanted to ask, is the knife on the right side of the picture genuine? Looks like a One Handed Trekker (left handed)Looks genuine to me. It would be an early one, judging by the elongated thumb hole.
Edit: I can't imagine a copycat producing lefthanders, as the market for these would be quite smallish..
I believe that's a Van Zwanenburg Dutch Army issued copy. But not 100% sure. Not a lot of info on these but here's an old eBay listing for one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VAN-ZWANENBURG-LOCKING-DUTCH-ARMY-KNIFE-ISSUED-TO-DUTCH-ARMY-IN-2010-EXCELLENT-/111831925317?_ul=AR
Post by: ColoSwiss on October 11, 2016, 11:25:16 PM
Post by: jaya_man on October 12, 2016, 05:07:57 AM
A friend posted this in facebook... still waiting for his reply...I wouldn't be surprised to see other models with DAK scales. It's the first time I see a lefthander though. What about the tang stamps? Vic or Zwanenburg?didn't know there was a DAK version for the OHT. Thx for the help. :cheers:Just wanted to ask, is the knife on the right side of the picture genuine? Looks like a One Handed Trekker (left handed)Looks genuine to me. It would be an early one, judging by the elongated thumb hole.
Edit: I can't imagine a copycat producing lefthanders, as the market for these would be quite smallish..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on October 12, 2016, 08:36:11 AM
A friend posted this in facebook... still waiting for his reply...I wouldn't be surprised to see other models with DAK scales. It's the first time I see a lefthander though. What about the tang stamps? Vic or Zwanenburg?didn't know there was a DAK version for the OHT. Thx for the help. :cheers:Just wanted to ask, is the knife on the right side of the picture genuine? Looks like a One Handed Trekker (left handed)Looks genuine to me. It would be an early one, judging by the elongated thumb hole.
Edit: I can't imagine a copycat producing lefthanders, as the market for these would be quite smallish..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When the Dutch army started issuing the new 111mm DAK in 1993 they simply ran out of supply. At that point some soldiers got a "civilian" version of the knife (Centurion) but they also issued a cheap knock-off of the DAK. That's probably the one jaya_man has (although i'm not sure because I have never seen one of the knock-offs). The cheap knock-off is said to be of inferior quality with a lot of blade play.
Post by: jaya_man on October 12, 2016, 08:45:03 AM
Thanks for the enlightenment...:cheers:A friend posted this in facebook... still waiting for his reply...I wouldn't be surprised to see other models with DAK scales. It's the first time I see a lefthander though. What about the tang stamps? Vic or Zwanenburg?didn't know there was a DAK version for the OHT. Thx for the help. :cheers:Just wanted to ask, is the knife on the right side of the picture genuine? Looks like a One Handed Trekker (left handed)Looks genuine to me. It would be an early one, judging by the elongated thumb hole.
Edit: I can't imagine a copycat producing lefthanders, as the market for these would be quite smallish..
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When the Dutch army started issuing the new 111mm DAK in 1993 they simply ran out of supply. At that point some soldiers got a "civilian" version of the knife (Centurion) but they also issued a cheap knock-off of the DAK. That's probably the one jaya_man has (although i'm not sure because I have never seen one of the knock-offs). The cheap knock-off is said to be of inferior quality with a lot of blade play.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: m47mu74nt on October 29, 2016, 09:51:06 PM
Looks like the date isn't only stamped on the scale front, but also on the inside :think:
There's nothing like that neither on my 03 Swiss Soldier, nor on the old red pioneer I have... Is that a specific feature of DAKs?
Post by: Don Pablo on November 12, 2016, 07:18:08 PM
Stopped at an army surplus store on the way home that I had never been to, I heard from a friend that they had GAKs and I felt like gawking ( :whistle: ) at some.
I walked in, my eyes were drawn to a not-a-GAK. :o
All I knew at the time was that it was a '74 DAK, and that the €10 label sounded like a great price with its relatively moderate wear?
I took her home, learnt that it was not made by vic or wenger. Still... For an introduction to the world of alox, its great. I love the alox itself and the inline awl(it puts the 91mm awl in its place :rofl: ).
What do you DAK experts think? It seems to be in nice condition. :)
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on November 12, 2016, 07:21:40 PM
€ 10 seems like a good price :tu:
Post by: Don Pablo on November 12, 2016, 07:25:57 PM
Post by: Thunderpants on November 12, 2016, 08:18:42 PM
Post by: Oxford_Guy on November 12, 2016, 09:12:15 PM
If nothing else, its making me realise how good alox is. This is going to cost more than 10 euros. :facepalm:
Down the rabbit hole...
Post by: magentus on November 12, 2016, 09:14:46 PM
If nothing else, its making me realise how good alox is. This is going to cost more than 10 euros. :facepalm::rofl: I appreciate your self honesty P-Brizzle :salute:
Post by: Sparky415 on November 12, 2016, 09:25:24 PM
That's a nice Amefa DAK :)
€ 10 seems like a good price :tu:
This :tu:
Post by: jalind on November 12, 2016, 09:28:40 PM
If nothing else, its making me realise how good alox is. This is going to cost more than 10 euros. :facepalm:
And the siren from the deep has lured yet another one over the side into Davy Jones' Locker!
John
PS
Looks like a good one to me :tu:
Post by: magentus on November 12, 2016, 09:30:12 PM
Post by: Don Pablo on November 12, 2016, 09:55:00 PM
Here I go again on that ghastly ship... :gimme:
By the way,
The bottle opener has some slight play, could there be a washer missing or something?
If it was the rivet then would the blade(mounted on the same rivet) not have the same problem? (the blade feels solid)
Post by: EMZ on July 07, 2017, 02:16:23 PM
Post by: EMZ on July 11, 2017, 02:49:01 PM
The knife was found in the sand of an army training area, so there was at least one soldier who thought it was a good knife :facepalm: Or maybe he threw it away when he found out it wasn't....
I did not even bother to clean it.
Post by: Ron Who on July 11, 2017, 10:14:02 PM
Post by: EMZ on July 19, 2017, 01:45:26 PM
Looks like a cheap copy of a Richartz knife.
Yes, these Richartz knife still have a little bit of quality. I think this cheap copy was a give-away for boys & girls during ' Landmacht Open Dagen' (= Army Open Days).
Post by: EMZ on July 19, 2017, 01:50:11 PM
Post by: cody6268 on July 20, 2017, 03:37:55 AM
Commercial type DAK from German knife company ‘Herder’. Part of Dutch Army demolition kits. Nothing special.
Freidrich Herder is a well regarded knife maker. That style is known as a European Style Electrician. Here in the US, our electrician's knives (often issued as the TL-29, or Tool, Lineman's 29) are typically two bladed, spear and a combination linerlocked wire stripper/scraper,and flat head screwdriver, usually with a shackle/bail to attach it to a lanyard), while typically the Euro ones are a one blade that also has a wire stripper in the tang. I have a similar Antonini.
Now that detonator is something cool.
If you ever come across another of those Herders, let me know.
Post by: EMZ on July 20, 2017, 10:20:42 PM
It is a rather cheap-production knife, but then, nowadays not much is done with the knives. Most EOD and engineer soldiers have multitools that do a better job. The Herders are packed for emergency case, I think.
I have a spare Herder knife. The tip of the blade is little bit blunt. Not because it had been used (it is brand new), but because of lack of quality control or very loose manufacturing standards.
Post by: EMZ on July 20, 2017, 10:36:18 PM
Later also Victorinox SwissTools (Original - 3.0323) were distributed. The Vic's were bought off-the-shelf and engraved with the mission and military unit name.
Another source told me that these engraved multitools were also obtained as a souvenir for the soldiers who were on that specific mission.
Correct me if I am wrong!
Today was my lucky day. I got one of these ultra rare Vic's!
This one is engraved "KFOR 1 C-cie". which probably translates to Kosovo Force 1st C-Company.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on July 21, 2017, 10:50:53 AM
Post by: Poncho65 on July 21, 2017, 11:57:47 AM
Nice find! :cheers:
:o What Glen said :tu: :like: :like:
Post by: EMZ on July 21, 2017, 03:21:24 PM
This type of knife is rather common, but I have never seen one with this extra imprint.
Seems to me that it is factory done.
Does anyone know the meaning of "T01" ??
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on July 21, 2017, 04:08:24 PM
Very interesting. Where did you find this?
Post by: EMZ on July 21, 2017, 05:25:52 PM
You are on a roll! :like:
Very interesting. Where did you find this?
Found it on 'marktplaats'. I used a personal message on another SAK, and he also came up with this one.
I also bought from him a strange Victorinox Centurion. It is the standard version, however it has GREEN scales. Exact the same color and material as the DAK Centurion, and also with the DE-GM stamp.
Post by: Guardian on July 22, 2017, 12:36:34 AM
Once upon a time Dutch military had no multitools at their disposal. Nevertheless soldiers had a strong need for them, so it was decided that some soldiers who were send on an "Out-of-Area" mission, were given multitools. For example EOD or engineers who joint IFOR, SFOR or KFOR were distributed multitools. The very first were Leatherman Classic Tools, or in military language "special tool M-631".
Later also Victorinox SwissTools (Original - 3.0323) were distributed. The Vic's were bought off-the-shelf and engraved with the mission and military unit name.
Another source told me that these engraved multitools were also obtained as a souvenir for the soldiers who were on that specific mission.
Correct me if I am wrong!
Today was my lucky day. I got one of these ultra rare Vic's!
This one is engraved "KFOR 1 C-cie". which probably translates to Kosovo Force 1st C-Company.
Great info :salute:
Interesting then that the KL went with the Spirit over the Swiss tool as their multi tool of choice :think:
Post by: EMZ on August 05, 2017, 07:25:52 PM
Today I found a unusual print in a "KL 93" DAK.
This type of knife is rather common, but I have never seen one with this extra imprint.
Seems to me that it is factory done.
Does anyone know the meaning of "T01" ??
Today I received answer from Victorinox: The 'T01' code is unknown to them.
It is also unknown to the Dutch army.
As far as I and an acquainted friend think, the mark was factory made and not later imprinted, engraved or melted. My theory is that the T maybe stands for Test or Type.
In 1992 the Dutch army was looking for a replacement of the somewhat outdated Soldier/Pioneer. They also tested a Vic with slide lock, called the KL 92 model. And most likely also this Centurion (8453.4).
See pictures.
Maybe the T01 was a test version. Who knows?
Post by: Guardian on August 05, 2017, 08:31:06 PM
Today I found a unusual print in a "KL 93" DAK.
This type of knife is rather common, but I have never seen one with this extra imprint.
Seems to me that it is factory done.
Does anyone know the meaning of "T01" ??
Today I received answer from Victorinox: The 'T01' code is unknown to them.
It is also unknown to the Dutch army.
As far as I and an acquainted friend think, the mark was factory made and not later imprinted, engraved or melted. My theory is that the T maybe stands for Test or Type.
In 1992 the Dutch army was looking for a replacement of the somewhat outdated Soldier/Pioneer. They also tested a Vic with slide lock, called the KL 92 model. And most likely also this Centurion (8453.4).
See pictures.
Maybe the T01 was a test version. Who knows?
The KL92 model looks like an Adventurer, the same one's hat were issued by the Danish army. Wonder if it had red or green scales? :think:
Post by: Osos on August 07, 2017, 10:01:25 AM
Electric knife was quite common, not only from Herder. Mainly used in Air Forces.
Belzer:
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/413499379.jpg)
Mark "Amsterdam" and PB67
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/413499378.jpg)
No name
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/413499382.jpg)
Some Land Forces used standard model from Herder, but I think it is privat purchase of soldier.
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/413499380.jpg)
And some rare models:
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/413499381.jpg)
(http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1660/8546231/24422496/413499377.jpg)
Post by: Don Pablo on August 07, 2017, 11:54:00 AM
I mean, it's the one and only DAK type that I've ever seen in the flesh.
(or would that be in the metal?)
Post by: Osos on August 07, 2017, 12:04:12 PM
Heheh, it's weird how the KL74 type is supposed to be rare..Look closer... It's not KL74 it's KLu74.
I mean, it's the one and only DAK type that I've ever seen in the flesh.
(or would that be in the metal?)
Wysłane z mojego SM-N910C przy użyciu Tapatalka
Post by: Don Pablo on August 07, 2017, 12:17:23 PM
:doh: :doh:Heheh, it's weird how the KL74 type is supposed to be rare..Look closer... It's not KL74 it's KLu74.
I mean, it's the one and only DAK type that I've ever seen in the flesh.
(or would that be in the metal?)
Wysłane z mojego SM-N910C przy użyciu Tapatalka
That is rare indeed. :tu:
Post by: Osos on August 07, 2017, 12:23:43 PM
:doh: :doh:Heheh, it's weird how the KL74 type is supposed to be rare..Look closer... It's not KL74 it's KLu74.
I mean, it's the one and only DAK type that I've ever seen in the flesh.
(or would that be in the metal?)
Wysłane z mojego SM-N910C przy użyciu Tapatalka
That is rare indeed. :tu:
Also model from 1993 in oryginal bag and Wenger with Luchmacht logo.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170807/df42c5fb53b79061bf9d4b075b79c579.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170807/92b455ba209e640f4554df53f25e5ea9.jpg)
Wysłane z mojego SM-N910C przy użyciu Tapatalka
Post by: EMZ on August 07, 2017, 04:55:16 PM
I have never seen a KLu74 in real life, nor the KLU63 and KLU65. I have only one: the KLU64.
How is it possible that someone in Poland acquires all these rare DAK's?? You are sucking up our national heritage!! Stop!! :cheers:
Just kidding,! It's very appreciated that you share your knowledge with the SAK community. Thanks!
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on August 07, 2017, 05:01:24 PM
A similar blue Wenger was sold here in the Netherlands one week ago for at least € 50. For me it was too expensive. Maybe I just don't have my priorities sorted out right :oops:
I have never seen a KLu74 in real life, nor the KLU63 and KLU65. I have only one: the KLU64.
How is it possible that someone in Poland acquires all these rare DAK's?? You are sucking up our national heritage!! Stop!! :cheers:
Just kidding,! It's very appreciated that you share your knowledge with the SAK community. Thanks!
Same here, I also considered the wenger too expensive unfortunately. I do wonder for what purpose it was made. Was it issued to certain air force personnel? Or maybe for promotional purpose?
Post by: EMZ on August 07, 2017, 05:39:01 PM
Post by: Osos on August 07, 2017, 06:02:12 PM
I have never seen a KLu74 in real life, nor the KLU63 and KLU65. I have only one: the KLU64.
How is it possible that someone in Poland acquires all these rare DAK's?? You are sucking up our national heritage!! Stop!! :cheers:
Just kidding,! It's very appreciated that you share your knowledge with the SAK community. Thanks!
I agree, most possible is that Wenger is just promo knife.
@EMZ can you post photo of KLU64? I didn't see this one.
Regarding your question I like very much Netherlands, I visit your country min.twice a year.
DAKs I start collect some time ago, when it was much easier to buy nice condition DAK, with good price. Right now it's much more dificoult.
My plan was to made short catalog with photos of my DAK knives in polish, English and dutch. I hope to made it some day.
My knowlage I want to go deeple with curator on NMM museum in Soest, that I also visited, but unfortunatlly it is very hard to contact this person by email.
Post by: Ron Who on August 07, 2017, 06:24:05 PM
The two compartment black leather belt sheath (4.0833.L) was intended for the Swiss Tool Plus but fits the DAK nicely. Notice how it sports the Interservice logo!
Post by: EMZ on August 07, 2017, 07:26:26 PM
When will it ever stop...??
Post by: Guardian on August 07, 2017, 07:32:38 PM
Also love that black Spirit case Ronald; never seen one of those...
Post by: EMZ on August 07, 2017, 07:37:49 PM
Post by: Osos on August 07, 2017, 08:32:42 PM
Earlier pouch was brown (4.0822.L)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170807/11b4ee1e960cb9110331b85d44c93421.jpg)
Wysłane z mojego SM-N910C przy użyciu Tapatalka
Post by: EMZ on August 08, 2017, 09:55:22 AM
I found these pics on the internet. (Source unknown)
M.v.D. = Ministerie van Defensie - Ministry of Defence.
Post by: EMZ on August 15, 2017, 11:35:19 AM
Once upon a time Dutch military had no multitools at their disposal. Nevertheless soldiers had a strong need for them, so it was decided that some soldiers who were send on an "Out-of-Area" mission, were given multitools. For example EOD or engineers who joint IFOR, SFOR or KFOR were distributed multitools. The very first were Leatherman Classic Tools, or in military language "special tool M-631".
Later also Victorinox SwissTools (Original - 3.0323) were distributed. The Vic's were bought off-the-shelf and engraved with the mission and military unit name.
Another source told me that these engraved multitools were also obtained as a souvenir for the soldiers who were on that specific mission.
Correct me if I am wrong!
Today was my lucky day. I got one of these ultra rare Vic's!
This one is engraved "KFOR 1 C-cie". which probably translates to Kosovo Force 1st C-Company.
With the help of a Dutch fellow collector I found out the meaning of the inscription "KFOR 1 C-cie".
From December 1999 to 31 april 2000 a Dutch Field Artillery unit (41 Afd. Veldartillerie) was deployed in Kosovo as part of KFOR.
The unit was reinforced with a reconnaissance platoon named "1e peloton C-compagnie 42 Bataljon Limburgse Jagers ‘Eagles’ (42 PAINFBAT)".
Post by: Nix on August 15, 2017, 01:55:39 PM
Post by: Osos on August 20, 2017, 09:33:11 AM
A while ago I get copy of Camilus spring knife. Knife that Mr. Talens mention in his book that serve in Dutch Army at Korean War (first photo).
After long serche I get original ona as well. Not to best shape, but still happy to get it.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170820/2000e62501aac313583eab38a4702e76.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170820/e17919c278dcb38f7fc7c8b8c97a8760.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170820/9a6a53c6815acea4649cfac6a99ac397.jpg)
Wysłane z mojego SM-N910C przy użyciu Tapatalka
Post by: EMZ on August 20, 2017, 11:34:21 AM
Unbelievable!
And thanks for sharing with us.
Post by: Frailer on August 20, 2017, 04:08:05 PM
With the help of a Dutch fellow collector I found out the meaning of the inscription "KFOR 1 C-cie".
From December 1999 to 31 april 2000 a Dutch Field Artillery unit (41 Afd. Veldartillerie) was deployed in Kosovo as part of KFOR.
The unit was reinforced with a reconnaissance platoon named "1e peloton C-compagnie 42 Bataljon Limburgse Jagers ‘Eagles’ (42 PAINFBAT)".
I was deployed to Kosovo as part of the KFOR 1 (1999-2000) and KFOR 4 (2002-2003) rotations. Where's my knife?
:whistle:
Back on topic, here's my one and only DAK, from 1985 (the year I joined the US Army):
(https://i.imgur.com/RHCg1O9.jpg)
Post by: EMZ on August 21, 2017, 05:56:28 PM
With the help of a Dutch fellow collector I found out the meaning of the inscription "KFOR 1 C-cie".
From December 1999 to 31 april 2000 a Dutch Field Artillery unit (41 Afd. Veldartillerie) was deployed in Kosovo as part of KFOR.
The unit was reinforced with a reconnaissance platoon named "1e peloton C-compagnie 42 Bataljon Limburgse Jagers ‘Eagles’ (42 PAINFBAT)".
I was deployed to Kosovo as part of the KFOR 1 (1999-2000) and KFOR 4 (2002-2003) rotations. Where's my knife?
:whistle:
Back on topic, here's my one and only DAK, from 1985 (the year I joined the US Army):
(https://i.imgur.com/RHCg1O9.jpg)
Your knife is safe!! With me... :cheers:
You have a KL85?! Wow, that's one of the KL's I am missing in my DAK collection. (No, no swapping! One day I will find a nice specimen.)
Post by: EMZ on August 29, 2017, 09:54:06 AM
The one in the picture is not (yet) in my collection, but in someone else's.
Post by: EMZ on August 31, 2017, 04:58:39 PM
The 'MvD' is a Victorinox Handyman. The others are Master Craftsman.
Strange thing about the 'MvD' knife is that is has a NSN, and it is described in the official Dutch Army ordering list as a "knife, pocket / FSG51 – Hand Tools / FSC 5110 – Hand Tools, Edged, Nonpowered, made by Wenger". (info thanks to a Dutch collector!)
Post by: EMZ on August 31, 2017, 05:29:47 PM
Today I picked up my Zwanenburg DAK just to play with. The knife is brand new and never used. Just by touching it, one of the scales came off!
The scales were simply GLUED to the frame! Look at the pics!
Post by: Osos on August 31, 2017, 06:06:44 PM
For Zwanenburg are you sure that was produced in China? I know it for low quality, but I didn't hear where it was produced.
Wysłane z mojego SM-N910C przy użyciu Tapatalka
Post by: EMZ on September 03, 2017, 09:27:29 AM
EMZ for those Victorinox I'm jealous like hell. It's hard to find them abroad.
For Zwanenburg are you sure that was produced in China? I know it for low quality, but I didn't hear where it was produced.
Wysłane z mojego SM-N910C przy użyciu Tapatalka
No, I actually don't have a clue where it was made. But according to extremely low craftmanship and the copycat behaviour of the producer, I would be very spurpised if it wasn't China!
Recently I acquired a handfull of DAK's of the 2010 model. Some that are almost brand new do not have a smooth opening of the large blade. Half way, at the intermediate stop, tension builds up and a smooth OH opening almost isn't possible. Probably Vic also has had small quality problems.
Post by: EMZ on September 03, 2017, 09:28:49 AM
Close observation revealed it is a to the SAK community previously unknown variety of the Air Force DAK.
My guess is that this is the very first type of the aluminum scaled Master Craftsman, because of the OLD type awl (reamer), the recess in the scale, clip-point small blade, and no bail.
The new type awl/reamer appeared in 1961, so it is safe to conclude this is a pre-1961 type knife.
The pictured knife is very well worn; the spring of the scissors is broken.
Post by: EMZ on September 03, 2017, 09:36:26 AM
Meaning of the tekst: Surinaamse Krijgsmacht (SKM) is Surinam Armed Forces. The phrasing ‘SKM’ was only used from 1975 to 1980.
No further details are known.
Post by: Osos on September 04, 2017, 05:12:18 PM
Wysłane z mojego SM-N910C przy użyciu Tapatalka
Post by: EMZ on September 04, 2017, 08:28:19 PM
"Stoottroepen" means something as "Thrust/Punching Troops", the first soldiers to go into the attack.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on September 21, 2017, 03:53:47 PM
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/i6ygjruu8i34ymv/rsz_2017-09-21_154039.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/k57a5dg141357vq/rsz_2017-09-21_153709.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/dptagkuucv8qc0k/rsz_2017-09-21_153819.jpg?raw=1)
Post by: m47mu74nt on September 21, 2017, 05:26:38 PM
Very nice theme!
:like:
and the KL92... :whistle:
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on September 21, 2017, 05:40:00 PM
Very nice theme!
:like:
and the KL92... :whistle:
What about it? :D
Post by: m47mu74nt on September 21, 2017, 09:11:27 PM
Very nice theme!
:like:
and the KL92... :whistle:
What about it? :D
I love it :whistle:
(https://forum.multitool.org/awards/58.png)
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on September 22, 2017, 08:50:01 AM
Very nice theme!
:like:
and the KL92... :whistle:
What about it? :D
I love it :whistle:
(https://forum.multitool.org/awards/58.png)
I see :D
I'll try to think about it if I ever see another KL92 for sale.
Post by: EMZ on September 22, 2017, 11:35:51 AM
And I agree: KL 92's are nice!
But I am still looking for an excellent KL 85. And a KL 72 also...
Post by: Mechanickal on September 22, 2017, 12:12:00 PM
That means I'm not the youngest here! :woohoo:
Very nice theme!
:like:
and the KL92... :whistle:
What about it? :D
I love it :whistle:
(https://forum.multitool.org/awards/58.png)
I see :D
I'll try to think about it if I ever see another KL92 for sale.
Post by: Don Pablo on September 22, 2017, 12:52:17 PM
Hes probably not the youngest either. :shrug: :DThat means I'm not the youngest here! :woohoo:
Very nice theme!
:like:
and the KL92... :whistle:
What about it? :D
I love it :whistle:
(https://forum.multitool.org/awards/58.png)
I see :D
I'll try to think about it if I ever see another KL92 for sale.
Post by: m47mu74nt on September 22, 2017, 01:33:57 PM
Post by: Mechanickal on September 22, 2017, 05:06:15 PM
I know I'm not so that's good enough for me :DHes probably not the youngest either. :shrug: :DThat means I'm not the youngest here! :woohoo:
Very nice theme!
:like:
and the KL92... :whistle:
What about it? :D
I love it :whistle:
(https://forum.multitool.org/awards/58.png)
I see :D
I'll try to think about it if I ever see another KL92 for sale.
Post by: KandiKlover on September 23, 2017, 02:21:16 AM
Post by: EMZ on September 23, 2017, 09:55:12 AM
I was just browsing eBay and saw quite a few of the DAK. Different varieties of the 110mm mostly.Prices of some knives on Ebay are not extremely high. Here in the Netherlands, if you're lucky, you can find the latest DAK type in new condition for about € 30-45 Euro's, including P&H. Pouches cost about € 5-7, if you can find a nice one.
Suppose I want to sell one on Ebay and I want to make € 5 profit. Then on average I have to get about € 45-50 for a knife in new condition plus pouch. Considering dollar-Euro exchange rate plus Ebay and Paypal fees, this knife has to sell for at least $ 70-76!
At this very moment a Victorinox DAK KM 87 is for sale on a Dutch online auction site, called Marktplaats ('market place'). Bidding price now is an astonishing € 125.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on September 23, 2017, 11:17:42 AM
Post by: EMZ on September 23, 2017, 02:57:10 PM
Let me explain. Bantams are very common knives, but after the Dutch Logistical Service ran out of the KL1993 knives, an unknown quantity of Bantam Ecolines was distributed among defense personal. No special codes or what so ever. This particular one came to me NIB from a Navy guy. So, a very common knife, but hard to find as a DAK ;)
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on September 23, 2017, 03:05:21 PM
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/iynqcn5dlloylkh/ecoline%20bantam%201.jpg?raw=1)
Post by: EMZ on September 23, 2017, 06:20:26 PM
Some years ago a friend of mine, who worked at the Navy base in Den Helder, lost his KL1993 knife. He ordered a new one, but was given this Bantam instead.
When I told him a year or so ago, that I collect DAK's, he gave me both the KL1993 and the Bantam... :think:
Post by: Mechanickal on September 23, 2017, 09:56:20 PM
Yes, the Bantam Ecoline is a genuine DAK.He just wanted a second then :D
Some years ago a friend of mine, who worked at the Navy base in Den Helder, lost his KL1993 knife. He ordered a new one, but was given this Bantam instead.
When I told him a year or so ago, that I collect DAK's, he gave me both the KL1993 and the Bantam... :think:
How do you know the difference between an Ecoline DAK Bantam and just a random bought (maybe even from ebay?) Eco Bantam?? :think:
Post by: EMZ on September 23, 2017, 10:27:56 PM
Post by: m47mu74nt on September 23, 2017, 10:46:45 PM
:like:
And I agree: KL 92's are nice!
But I am still looking for an excellent KL 85. And a KL 72 also...
<3 <3 <3
Post by: EMZ on September 28, 2017, 09:15:20 PM
At this very moment a Victorinox DAK KM 87 is for sale on a Dutch online auction site, called Marktplaats ('market place'). Bidding price now is an astonishing € 125.
Today the M 87 was sold for... € 210 ! (~260 dollar...)
Post by: Ron Who on September 28, 2017, 09:20:12 PM
Post by: EMZ on September 28, 2017, 09:30:57 PM
It wasn't me! :o
Me neither!
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on September 28, 2017, 09:37:44 PM
At this very moment a Victorinox DAK KM 87 is for sale on a Dutch online auction site, called Marktplaats ('market place'). Bidding price now is an astonishing € 125.
Today the M 87 was sold for... € 210 ! (~260 dollar...)
Given the rarity I sort of understand.
I'm just glad I only paid about € 15 for mine :D
Post by: Mechanickal on September 28, 2017, 09:38:33 PM
:sa:
At this very moment a Victorinox DAK KM 87 is for sale on a Dutch online auction site, called Marktplaats ('market place'). Bidding price now is an astonishing € 125.
Today the M 87 was sold for... € 210 ! (~260 dollar...)
Given the rarity I sort of understand.
I'm just glad I only paid about € 15 for mine :D
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on September 28, 2017, 09:39:29 PM
Post by: EMZ on November 17, 2017, 08:39:26 PM
The 2nd pic shows both sides of the handles of my spare DAK Spirit. It was damaged and then repaired at Victorinox. Now is has a pliers without the Swiss Cross, plus handles with both the old and new style logo's. :D
Post by: EMZ on November 17, 2017, 11:04:07 PM
Another Dutch collector has a second one (see pic). He's an retired Dutch Marine who got this T01 many years ago from a Dutch Commando. It was a test model, so the 'T' probably means 'test'.
Post by: EMZ on December 07, 2017, 04:53:58 PM
The knife has a gold painted crest and a special wooden gift box with printing “Landmacht. Landmachtstaf” (Army. Army Staff).This “Landmachtstaf” was up to 2005 the Staff organisation of the Dutch Army “Bevelhebber der Landstrijdkrachten (Commander of the Land Forces). In 2005 this staff organisation was abolished.
The tang stamp is the standard DE-GM / 9305297 on one side and ‘Victorinox Switserland’ on the other side. However, the fonts of the latter stamping are rather small, compared with other similar tang stampings.
It is not known wether this special version was made by Victorinox itself or by another company.
Post by: EMZ on December 07, 2017, 07:02:27 PM
Price is $ 44 or $ 55 per knife, including pouch and postage.
Please take a look at the "Multitool for Sale" if you are interested.
Post by: Guardian on December 07, 2017, 08:13:22 PM
Here is a DAK model KL 1993 in official wooden gift box. It was supplied to or by the Dutch Army “Landmachtstaf” (Army Staff).
The knife has a gold painted crest and a special wooden gift box with printing “Landmacht. Landmachtstaf” (Army. Army Staff).This “Landmachtstaf” was up to 2005 the Staff organisation of the Dutch Army “Bevelhebber der Landstrijdkrachten (Commander of the Land Forces). In 2005 this staff organisation was abolished.
The tang stamp is the standard DE-GM / 9305297 on one side and ‘Victorinox Switserland’ on the other side. However, the fonts of the latter stamping are rather small, compared with other similar tang stampings.
It is not known wether this special version was made by Victorinox itself or by another company.
:like:
Post by: EMZ on December 09, 2017, 01:23:08 PM
All pouches have same NSN 8465-17-110-1750.
Post by: gene stoner on December 09, 2017, 04:43:48 PM
Three different style of DAK pouches. At most left is the pouch for the Zwanenburg 2007 DAK. Middle and right pouches are for Vic KL 2010 model.
All pouches have same NSN 8465-17-110-1750.
Do they all attach the same way on the back? How do they attach?
Post by: Mechanickal on December 09, 2017, 06:42:54 PM
Post by: EMZ on December 09, 2017, 07:58:04 PM
Post by: Ron Who on December 09, 2017, 08:00:04 PM
I'd guess with Alice Clips...
Alice clips and belt loop. I removed the clips off mine.
Post by: EMZ on December 11, 2017, 12:22:46 PM
The pouches for the KL 1993 type knife have belt loops and Alice clips. Made by Arwy NV and by Fosco.
Post by: EMZ on December 11, 2017, 12:31:20 PM
Very hard to get in a descent condition!
Post by: EMZ on December 12, 2017, 09:19:14 PM
From a fellow Dutch collector I received a picture of an up to now unknown tang stamp of the KL1993 type knife. It lacks the DE-GM stamp, but instead it is stamped "STAINLESS ROSTFREI". The reverse tang stamp is the well known 'Victorinox Switserland' stamp in small fonts.
Post by: EMZ on December 13, 2017, 05:38:25 PM
According to the seller (an ex-army officer who also collects DAK's), the alox KL 95 Fosco knives were bought by the Army in 1995 because the Victorinox KL 1993 knives weren't available at the time. The Army's Defence Material Organisation (DMO) soon realized that the Fosco KL 95 knives were of extremely bad quality, so short after the release, the contract was cancelled, the knives were withdrawn from service and remaining stock was destroyed. Consequently these alox Fosco's are very rare.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on December 13, 2017, 05:45:25 PM
Today this absolute ugly beauty came in the mail: A genuine KL 95 Fosco!
According to the seller (an ex-army officer who also collects DAK's), the alox KL 95 Fosco knives were bought by the Army in 1995 because the Victorinox KL 1993 knives weren't available at the time. The Army's Defence Material Organisation (DMO) soon realized that the Fosco KL 95 knives were of extremely bad quality, so short after the release, the contract was cancelled, the knives were withdrawn from service and remaining stock was destroyed. Consequently these alox Fosco's are very rare.
Nice find!
Post by: EMZ on December 29, 2017, 04:16:28 PM
Front side is stamped 'VICTORINOX SWISS MADE STAINLESS' and back side has no stamp at all. The liner-locks are stamped 'PRESS'.
BTW: I think there are six (6) different tang stamps variations for the KL 1993 model. As soon as I am sure, I will publish it in this thread.
Post by: EMZ on December 29, 2017, 04:21:35 PM
From left to right: KM 87 (small V), KL 87 (small V), KL 87 (large V)
Post by: EMZ on December 29, 2017, 06:24:52 PM
Post by: Guardian on December 30, 2017, 10:07:22 PM
Post by: Barry Rowland on December 31, 2017, 03:07:13 AM
Post by: EMZ on January 03, 2018, 05:57:10 PM
Recently I received a 'Zwanenburg' DAK together with its original carton box, including label. I noticed this specimen was 31 grams heavier than the one I already had. It is also 1,2 mm thicker. The box of this 'heavy weight Zwanenburg' was also slightly larger as the box for the 'light weight Zwanenburg'. Unfortunately I don't have a 'light weight' complete with box label.
1st picture: Above is the 'light weight' version, and lower the 'heavy weight'.
"Zakmes met vergrendeling" = pocket knife with lock.
The NSN of the 'Zwanenburg' is the same as that of the Victorinox 'KL 2010' model.
Post by: EMZ on January 03, 2018, 06:04:42 PM
The upper package is the probably the oldest version.
Both Victorinox knives have same NSN as the 'Zwanenburg' model.
"Zakmes, nieuw model" = pocket knife, new model.
"Zakmes met vergrendeling" = pocket knife with lock.
Post by: EMZ on January 03, 2018, 06:06:52 PM
Both have 4th type of tang stamp. (See above.)
Post by: Guardian on January 03, 2018, 09:40:06 PM
Two slightly different types of plastic packings and manuals for DAK Victorinox 'KL 1993' model.
Both have 4th type of tang stamp. (See above.)
Are the plastic pouches sealed? Would you have to damage them to get the knives out? :think:
Post by: EMZ on January 03, 2018, 10:52:43 PM
Two slightly different types of plastic packings and manuals for DAK Victorinox 'KL 1993' model.
Both have 4th type of tang stamp. (See above.)
Are the plastic pouches sealed? Would you have to damage them to get the knives out? :think:
Yes, they were sealed. I had to open them :cry:
All for science!!
Post by: EMZ on January 08, 2018, 11:01:40 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 06, 2018, 05:22:04 PM
Today this absolute ugly beauty came in the mail: A genuine KL 95 Fosco!
According to the seller (an ex-army officer who also collects DAK's), the alox KL 95 Fosco knives were bought by the Army in 1995 because the Victorinox KL 1993 knives weren't available at the time. The Army's Defence Material Organisation (DMO) soon realized that the Fosco KL 95 knives were of extremely bad quality, so short after the release, the contract was cancelled, the knives were withdrawn from service and remaining stock was destroyed. Consequently these alox Fosco's are very rare.
Received a couple of these cool thingies myself today:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180206/1ea2fe57502c5f43d318271f03cc54fc.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180206/930f2e1b5de9329e53b53b9270d36dc1.jpg)
The story behind these knives is what makes them so cool, and of course they are quite rare. But I can understand why the army got rid of these :rofl:
The biggest issue is consistency, all these knives look different. For example look at the bottom of the knifeblades (the pivoting parts), they are of unequal size:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180206/80364c8ad7e9fa439cae05219ec552d0.jpg)
It may not be very well visible on the picture but the nailnicks are of unequal size:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180206/e5f10eed0532210423dc52a986e4a525.jpg)
Also look at the can openers and how one sticks out much more than the other:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180206/8916f44cb7cbaa83320254b100be4117.jpg)
On two of the knives the backsprings stick out a bit while the tools are folded:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180206/927b12919d171047a7521916c8afb58f.jpg)
Look at the knobs on this thing! :D
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180206/af7083f223b828235c859b9f1fc1e0d8.jpg)
Are these cool or what! 8)
Post by: Reinier on February 06, 2018, 05:25:54 PM
Post by: EMZ on February 06, 2018, 05:51:19 PM
I was emailing with the seller, but probably I was too slow because suddenly they were sold. To you !
Congratulations!
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 06, 2018, 05:55:12 PM
Post by: m47mu74nt on February 17, 2018, 07:18:44 PM
here is my first bailed DAK I got today, and the first thing I noticed is the bail is not mounted on a hollow rivet as on my SI ('91) and Soldier (92) but on what looks like a drilled non-hollow one ?
(https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21658.0;attach=358959)
Post by: EMZ on March 21, 2018, 09:19:47 PM
question to the DAK collectors,
here is my first bailed DAK I got today, and the first thing I noticed is the bail is not mounted on a hollow rivet as on my SI ('91) and Soldier (92) but on what looks like a drilled non-hollow one ?
(https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=21658.0;attach=358959)
I examined my KL 85, but I did not remove the bail (couldn't do it with my bare fingers and I don't want to use a tool). So.. uhhh... I don;t have an answer for you. Sorry!
Post by: EMZ on March 21, 2018, 09:30:08 PM
It is equiped with a blue cellidor Victorinox knife (probably a master Craftsman) with reamer, Phillips SC and small slotted SD on back layer.
Post by: Thunderpants on March 21, 2018, 09:38:43 PM
Post by: Mechanickal on March 21, 2018, 09:39:58 PM
Wow! Who can resist busting that thing out of the plastic bag!I couldn't...
Open bag, take knife, throw away the other stuff.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on April 20, 2018, 11:12:04 AM
Post by: Ron Who on May 12, 2018, 04:28:47 PM
Post by: m47mu74nt on May 15, 2018, 10:25:38 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 16, 2018, 07:40:36 AM
<3
Looks in pristine condition! :2tu:
Post by: m47mu74nt on May 16, 2018, 02:13:51 PM
and it is !<3
Looks in pristine condition! :2tu:
Post by: El Corkscrew on June 15, 2018, 02:49:12 AM
I'm finding a great amount of satisfaction in carrying the DAK... I like the older, thicker tools and the KL 92 on the scale.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on June 15, 2018, 09:02:24 AM
Decided to finally EDC this guy. I was a little hesitant as it is my only one, it was between this and an old red OC.... the red on the OC is and pretty darn good shape so I've decided to keep that one on the Shelf.
I'm finding a great amount of satisfaction in carrying the DAK... I like the older, thicker tools and the KL 92 on the scale.
Very fine choice El C :2tu: :hatsoff:
Post by: EMZ on July 18, 2018, 05:09:41 PM
It's a Leatherman Tool plus leather pouch.
The pouch has the Netherlands Defence Force gold colored "Interservice" logo on the flap.
The tool is dated 0696 (or is it 9690??) on the inside of one handle.
On one of the handles it is marked with an US NSN: 5110-01-321-8805.
Post by: Mechanickal on July 18, 2018, 05:45:05 PM
And that would be 0696.
LM only stamps month and year, not day.
Post by: EMZ on July 18, 2018, 06:46:27 PM
Oh, and I forgot to ask... Does anybody know which particular model this LM DAK is? It is here shown together with a much larger LM Super Tool (dated 0969).
Post by: Mechanickal on July 18, 2018, 10:10:46 PM
(Not a LM expert so don't know the difference between the 2)
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on July 18, 2018, 10:17:44 PM
Today this up to now unknown DAK came in!! :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh
It's a Leatherman Tool plus leather pouch.
The pouch has the Netherlands Defence Force gold colored "Interservice" logo on the flap.
The tool is dated 0696 (or is it 9690??) on the inside of one handle.
On one of the handles it is marked with an US NSN: 5110-01-321-8805.
Great find! :2tu:
Post by: Boonies on July 18, 2018, 10:31:09 PM
Post by: magentus on July 18, 2018, 11:36:06 PM
Decided to finally EDC this guy. I was a little hesitant as it is my only one, it was between this and an old red OC.... the red on the OC is and pretty darn good shape so I've decided to keep that one on the Shelf.M'Lord, I still have the '81 DAK tobsend you. I'll pop a pic up to show you. In the morning :salute:
I'm finding a great amount of satisfaction in carrying the DAK... I like the older, thicker tools and the KL 92 on the scale.
Post by: magentus on July 19, 2018, 03:03:00 PM
Post by: Barry Rowland on July 19, 2018, 03:08:30 PM
Post by: magentus on July 19, 2018, 03:11:50 PM
Post by: Barry Rowland on July 19, 2018, 03:18:54 PM
Post by: EMZ on July 19, 2018, 04:51:52 PM
Decided to finally EDC this guy. I was a little hesitant as it is my only one, it was between this and an old red OC.... the red on the OC is and pretty darn good shape so I've decided to keep that one on the Shelf.
I'm finding a great amount of satisfaction in carrying the DAK... I like the older, thicker tools and the KL 92 on the scale.
Good choice!
There are still plenty KL 92's around, so if you lose it, or it gets stolen, you will find a replacement easily. And in The States a DAK will be more likely a conversation peace than a standard version.
Post by: EMZ on July 19, 2018, 04:54:20 PM
Very nice find.......I believe that would be the PST as the PST2 has scissors. :tu:
Yes, it is a PST. Thanks for letting me know!
Thanks to you and Mech I noticed that on the MTO Leatherman page there is a lot of information about de PST. I think I will post also a picture on that page.
Post by: Mechanickal on July 19, 2018, 04:57:40 PM
Good idea! :tu:Very nice find.......I believe that would be the PST as the PST2 has scissors. :tu:
Yes, it is a PST. Thanks for letting me know!
Thanks to you and Mech I noticed that on the MTO Leatherman page there is a lot of information about de PST. I think I will post also a picture on that page.
Post by: Guardian on July 19, 2018, 07:50:25 PM
Today this up to now unknown DAK came in!! :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh
It's a Leatherman Tool plus leather pouch.
The pouch has the Netherlands Defence Force gold colored "Interservice" logo on the flap.
The tool is dated 0696 (or is it 9690??) on the inside of one handle.
On one of the handles it is marked with an US NSN: 5110-01-321-8805.
Really nice find :like:
Post by: Myron on July 20, 2018, 01:06:14 AM
Thanks,
Myron
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on July 20, 2018, 09:53:46 AM
Question for the DAK experts: What is the earliest year for DAKs with stamped year-of-issue on it?
Thanks,
Myron
I believe that's 61
Post by: Don Pablo on July 20, 2018, 10:05:55 AM
El-C's BY DAK:dd:
That would look good in the amefa thread.
Post by: magentus on July 20, 2018, 10:17:41 AM
:tu: Your wish is my command Pabs :salute:El-C's BY DAK:dd:
That would look good in the amefa thread.
Post by: Don Pablo on July 20, 2018, 10:58:01 AM
Grand! :cheers: :salute::tu: Your wish is my command Pabs :salute:El-C's BY DAK:dd:
That would look good in the amefa thread.
Post by: magentus on July 20, 2018, 11:06:10 AM
Post by: EMZ on July 20, 2018, 11:08:37 AM
Question for the DAK experts: What is the earliest year for DAKs with stamped year-of-issue on it?
Thanks,
Myron
I believe that's 61
YES, it's definitely 61.
Post by: Myron on July 20, 2018, 01:28:36 PM
Question for the DAK experts: What is the earliest year for DAKs with stamped year-of-issue on it?
Thanks,
Myron
I believe that's 61
YES, it's definitely 61.
Great; thanks. I will have to keep my eyes open!
Post by: EMZ on August 16, 2018, 09:25:49 PM
The printed emblem on the pouch is from the Netherlands Army "11 Luchtmobiele Brigade" (=11 Air Mobile Brigade). This emblem was in use until 2005.
The tool has the 1996 style pliers head, so the knife is dated between 1996 to 2005.
Post by: El Corkscrew on August 17, 2018, 05:45:23 AM
El-C's BY DAK
For some reason just now seeing this! :ahhh You've got to wait for me to send your package before you send it Mags!.
:cheers: :salute:
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on August 17, 2018, 06:10:38 AM
This one came in today: A Victorinox SwissTool (standard model) with special print on pouch.
The printed emblem on the pouch is from the Netherlands Army "11 Luchtmobiele Brigade" (=11 Air Mobile Brigade). This emblem was in use until 2005.
The tool has the 1996 style pliers head, so the knife is dated between 1996 to 2005.
Nice find! :salute:
Post by: El Corkscrew on August 17, 2018, 06:30:00 AM
+1 Very nice indeed! :tu:This one came in today: A Victorinox SwissTool (standard model) with special print on pouch.
The printed emblem on the pouch is from the Netherlands Army "11 Luchtmobiele Brigade" (=11 Air Mobile Brigade). This emblem was in use until 2005.
The tool has the 1996 style pliers head, so the knife is dated between 1996 to 2005.
Nice find! :salute:
Post by: EMZ on August 17, 2018, 09:45:31 PM
This one came in today: A Victorinox SwissTool (standard model) with special print on pouch.
The printed emblem on the pouch is from the Netherlands Army "11 Luchtmobiele Brigade" (=11 Air Mobile Brigade). This emblem was in use until 2005.
The tool has the 1996 style pliers head, so the knife is dated between 1996 to 2005.
Oops, I really am a little bit stupid. At the office I am responsible to accompany one of our trainees. This trainee is now around for 2 weeks. Guess what? He's a NCO with... 11 Air Mobile Brigade! I didn't make the connection before... :facepalm:
Today I showed him a picture of the SwissTool + pouch and asked him if he had ever seen it. "Yes, these were given more than 10 years ago as a X-mas present for all personnel of 11 LMB" was his answer.
Post by: EMZ on August 18, 2018, 09:03:33 AM
...
The tool has the 1996 style pliers head, so the knife is dated between 1996 to 2005.
Wrong! I put on my glasses and read again the thread "Different Swisstool plier heads , the truth". It's NOT the 1996 style pliers but the 1998 style.
So this DAK SwissTool can be dated 1998 - 2005.
Post by: Mechanickal on August 18, 2018, 09:13:42 AM
Post by: MMR on August 19, 2018, 11:09:49 AM
The ones from the 1960s look very crude, is that just how they were made or is that from usage?
Just curious
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Mechanickal on August 19, 2018, 11:27:56 AM
If they're made by Amefa, they were just made more crude.
Post by: MMR on August 19, 2018, 06:18:49 PM
Which ones?
If they're made by Amefa, they were just made more crude.
Yeah I meant the Amefa ones
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: EMZ on August 21, 2018, 07:14:42 PM
Amefa wasn't a company specialized in pocket knives, but more in other cutlery, like spoons forks and ordinary knives. In order to compete with Victorinox (which company had a lead on in pocket knives), the workmanship of Amefa pocket knives was lesser than that of Victorinox's. At the end Amefa was just too expensive and the company stopped producing pocket knives at all.
That is my unprofen theory.
Post by: EMZ on August 21, 2018, 09:50:01 PM
1. Top. This specimen had a black printing “HOBKL”, but after cleaning the printings were gone! Now the tekst can only can be seen as a very faint discolorization of the stainless steel metal.
HOBKL = Hoger Onderhoudsbedrijf Koninklijke Landmacht, which translates into “Higher Maintenance Works Royal Army”. The knife was found on a Dutch Army training ground.
2. Below. Almost the same multitool, but with laser engraving “TFU-1”.
TFU-1 = Task Force Uruzgan-1.
TFU-1 was the first Australian-Dutch combined Battle Group active for ISAF in Uruzgan-Afghanistan from juli 2007 to january 2008. This multitool was given as a souvenir to the Dutch soldiers of the 12 Air Mobile Batalion -that was part of TFU-1 Battle Group- after completion of their (first) tour. An estimate of about 150 multitools were handed over.
Quality of these multitools is BAD! For sure not Swiss quality!
Only small differences beween the two.
The TFU-1 specimen has a broken spring on the main blade and the Phillips SD.
They were probably made by Eiffel Hardware Intenational Co., Ltd in Yangjing city, Guangdong, China. Item number EMH05SS0004-A.
Post by: Mechanickal on August 22, 2018, 12:41:25 PM
Post by: dkop1 on August 31, 2018, 09:24:54 AM
Post by: Osos on September 29, 2018, 04:54:31 PM
Fantastic posts EMZ, keep going, lot's of information.
Finally my wife agree to made some nice cabin for my DAKs(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180929/f6a625e2727e6a69bf5f7dfaa46f98cc.jpg)
Post by: Rapidray on September 29, 2018, 05:31:58 PM
Post by: EMZ on October 01, 2018, 09:27:06 PM
Mine wouldn't let me... I am convicted to my man cave :cheers:
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on October 01, 2018, 09:59:13 PM
I didn't look to long on this topic.
Fantastic posts EMZ, keep going, lot's of information.
Finally my wife agree to made some nice cabin for my DAKs(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180929/f6a625e2727e6a69bf5f7dfaa46f98cc.jpg)
Awesome! :2tu:
Post by: EMZ on October 19, 2018, 11:07:13 PM
Here is a remembrance or souvenir knife from the Dutch Army "1st Division '7 December' ". It was given to members of this '7 December Division' when this unit was discontinued in 2004.
Definitively not a Victorinox!
"Bedankt" means "thanks".
Post by: EMZ on October 19, 2018, 11:12:53 PM
The manual is dated 2016.
Post by: EMZ on October 19, 2018, 11:19:22 PM
The configuration of the tools is different from the 'normal' style KL knives. As far as I can see, it lacks the KL stamp.
BTW:The KL knife in the pics is an Instalex.
Post by: EMZ on December 02, 2018, 09:02:48 AM
The Knife is a post 1987 Camillus. It's not a very nice specimen, but these complete sets are rather difficult to find.
The electricians pliers are made by Knipex. This is not a regular, commercial pliers. The canvas pouch is Dutch made.
Post by: Rapidray on December 02, 2018, 03:21:56 PM
Post by: Guardian on December 03, 2018, 08:14:03 PM
Post by: EMZ on December 20, 2018, 09:44:47 PM
Who knows more about this rare tang stamp?
Post by: Rapidray on December 20, 2018, 10:30:09 PM
A 'KL 93' with rarely seen tang stamps: Front: VICTORINOX SWITZERLAND. Revers: STAINLESS ROSTFREII can not help with information, but that is a very nice tang stamp! :like: :tu:
Who knows more about this rare tang stamp?
Post by: EMZ on January 04, 2019, 05:31:03 PM
A 'KL 93' with rarely seen tang stamps: Front: VICTORINOX SWITZERLAND. Revers: STAINLESS ROSTFREI
Who knows more about this rare tang stamp?
No one...??? ???
Post by: EMZ on January 04, 2019, 05:36:33 PM
It took me 4 years to find an affordable, nice specimen. Probably the KL72 is a little bit rare.
The only ones still missing are KLU 63 and KLU 74. The hunt continues!
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on January 04, 2019, 06:01:13 PM
The latest addition to my collection: The Amefa KL 72 knife
It took me 4 years to find an affordable, nice specimen. Probably the KL72 is a little bit rare.
The only ones still missing are KLU 63 and KLU 74. The hunt continues!
Last week I saw a KLU63 for sale on MP with broken blade
Post by: EMZ on January 04, 2019, 09:07:19 PM
The latest addition to my collection: The Amefa KL 72 knife
It took me 4 years to find an affordable, nice specimen. Probably the KL72 is a little bit rare.
The only ones still missing are KLU 63 and KLU 74. The hunt continues!
Last week I saw a KLU63 for sale on MP with broken blade
Yes, I noticed it. However I am not interested in knives with broken tools. I don't mind if tools are bent, worn or ground too much, but broken tools are one step too far.
I am also missing some other Dutch Air Force knives like the ones with the blue aluminium slabs (There are 3 models of which I only have 1) and the blue Wenger knife and two "KLU EIGENDOM" types.
Post by: Osos on January 06, 2019, 02:31:28 AM
A 'KL 93' with rarely seen tang stamps: Front: VICTORINOX SWITZERLAND. Revers: STAINLESS ROSTFREIIt's not like Victorinox was using blades from different production!? For example blade that was made for production civil model nomad or centurion. I made this conclusion because well know tang stamp de-gm is not originally made for DAK.
Who knows more about this rare tang stamp?
Nice KL72.
Keep my fingers crossed for finding KLu models. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190106/224d20ba381e2eeb25c813f00c742697.jpg)
Post by: Rapidray on January 06, 2019, 02:35:06 AM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on January 06, 2019, 09:56:18 AM
Post by: EMZ on January 06, 2019, 12:28:54 PM
There is a KLu 74 for sale at the moment but the current highest bid on it is €155 :ahhh
Who ever wins, it won't be me!
That's a lot of money for in fact a standard Amefa knife. Thanks for keeping me informed.
Post by: Reinier on January 06, 2019, 01:03:58 PM
Post by: Mechanickal on January 06, 2019, 01:50:15 PM
Anything specific I should look for?
I always ignored them so far.
Lots of Alox models, but also the older fibre handles in there.
Post by: EMZ on January 06, 2019, 02:48:53 PM
"Geen Victorinox". That's misusing a brand name.
It is allowed on Marktplaats.
The highest bidder at the moment is someone named 'Van Polen'. I've never seen this name before bidding on knives. Could it be this bidder is from Poland...???
Post by: Reinier on January 06, 2019, 02:51:50 PM
"Geen Victorinox". That's misusing a brand name.
It is allowed on Marktplaats.
?
Then why is there the option "Merkvergelijking in titel" when reporting a listing?
Post by: EMZ on January 06, 2019, 04:12:05 PM
"Geen Victorinox". That's misusing a brand name.
It is allowed on Marktplaats.
?
Then why is there the option "Merkvergelijking in titel" when reporting a listing?
Oh, I didn't know! I've seen it many times before.
But everyday there something to learn ;)
Post by: EMZ on January 06, 2019, 04:23:37 PM
I know a seller who has a full plastic bag of Amefa KL knives...
Anything specific I should look for?
I always ignored them so far.
Lots of Alox models, but also the older fibre handles in there.
Every KLU is rare.
Very few fibre Amefa's have the tang stamp 'Instalex'.
Some fibre Amefa's have what I call 'invers tool positioning'. It's described here in this forum.
I especially like the alox KL 72-73-74 Amefa's because they lack the can opener, and KL 72 was the first aluminium Amefa.
The last Amefa was the KL 84.
The first Victorinox was the KL 83 (with brass liners)
Post by: Mechanickal on January 06, 2019, 04:38:12 PM
:cheers:
Post by: EMZ on January 08, 2019, 10:21:19 PM
There is a KLu 74 for sale at the moment but the current highest bid on it is €155 :ahhh
Today, the highest bid is a whopping € 210... and that price for a knife that is in a rather bad condition (broken blade tip, broken reamer tip, slightly bent screw driver).
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on January 09, 2019, 08:01:35 AM
There is a KLu 74 for sale at the moment but the current highest bid on it is €155 :ahhh
Today, the highest bid is a whopping € 210... and that price for a knife that is in a rather bad condition (broken blade tip, broken reamer tip, slightly bent screw driver).
:o
Post by: EMZ on January 09, 2019, 11:25:38 AM
These tools were issued as gift, representation and for normal use.
The multitool is probably a Chinese copy (the blade is stamped 'stainless') of an older type SOG tool.
Post by: EMZ on January 11, 2019, 07:34:06 PM
A 'KL 93' with rarely seen tang stamps: Front: VICTORINOX SWITZERLAND. Revers: STAINLESS ROSTFREIIt's not like Victorinox was using blades from different production!? For example blade that was made for production civil model nomad or centurion. I made this conclusion because well know tang stamp de-gm is not originally made for DAK.
Who knows more about this rare tang stamp?
Nice KL72.
Keep my fingers crossed for finding KLu models. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190106/224d20ba381e2eeb25c813f00c742697.jpg)
Osos, thanks for shearing this picture! Great knife in very good condition.
BTW: An Amefa KLU 65 is now being offered on Dutch Marktplaats. Starting/asking price is € 150!
Post by: Osos on January 16, 2019, 07:04:23 PM
Could be. We have some "havy" collectors."Geen Victorinox". That's misusing a brand name.
It is allowed on Marktplaats.
The highest bidder at the moment is someone named 'Van Polen'. I've never seen this name before bidding on knives. Could it be this bidder is from Poland...???
Price are get wild. I always knew that besides hobby, it's a very good investment.
My KLu knives(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190116/fe51cb023cd6b9f74ce0b3b61b2f8366.jpg)
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on January 17, 2019, 11:16:30 AM
Could be. We have some "havy" collectors."Geen Victorinox". That's misusing a brand name.
It is allowed on Marktplaats.
The highest bidder at the moment is someone named 'Van Polen'. I've never seen this name before bidding on knives. Could it be this bidder is from Poland...???
Price are get wild. I always knew that besides hobby, it's a very good investment.
My KLu knives(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190116/fe51cb023cd6b9f74ce0b3b61b2f8366.jpg)
That's an awesome collection of KLu knives you got there! :tu:
Post by: EMZ on January 17, 2019, 09:46:04 PM
Post by: EMZ on January 17, 2019, 09:50:49 PM
I am not so sure. Yesterday I sold by auction on Ebay a near perfect Amefa KL 81. Highest bid was at only $ 11.50.
That knife I bought myself a while ago for about $ 19, so this one was definitely not a good investment!
Post by: Osos on January 17, 2019, 09:55:33 PM
"It's a very good investment."...Sic. Not so rare model, but 11 euro... World get crazy.
I am not so sure. Yesterday I sold by auction on Ebay a near perfect Amefa KL 81. Highest bid was at only $ 11.50.
That knife I bought myself a while ago for about $ 19, so this one was definitely not a good investment!
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on January 18, 2019, 08:06:55 AM
"It's a very good investment."...
I am not so sure. Yesterday I sold by auction on Ebay a near perfect Amefa KL 81. Highest bid was at only $ 11.50.
That knife I bought myself a while ago for about $ 19, so this one was definitely not a good investment!
You should have used “not victorinox” in the title :rofl:
I once sold an Amefa on eBay, sold it for €40 as a BIN with Best Offer enabled. The title I used was “Amefa KL82 DAK, rare Dutch Army Knife, 1982”.
Post by: Reinier on January 18, 2019, 08:24:33 AM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on January 18, 2019, 08:29:06 AM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on January 18, 2019, 09:22:20 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190118/f9f7af279f1d08948e683721d709ba5c.jpg)
Post by: Rapidray on January 18, 2019, 02:45:52 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on January 18, 2019, 02:59:59 PM
It is a great example! :like: :tu:
Thanks :cheers:
Already sold the old one… for the same price as for which I bought the new one. So for me it's a free "upgrade" from a used KM87 to a mint condition KM87 :woohoo:
Post by: Rapidray on January 18, 2019, 03:47:58 PM
A free upgrade! I like that! :tu:It is a great example! :like: :tu:
Thanks :cheers:
Already sold the old one… for the same price as for which I bought the new one. So for me it's a free "upgrade" from a used KM87 to a mint condition KM87 :woohoo:
Post by: Myron on February 05, 2019, 03:18:10 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/iG6yeza.jpg)
Post by: Rapidray on February 05, 2019, 03:31:14 PM
Very nice KM87, Glenfiddich! Mine is more like your previous specimen, but I still like it. :)Very nice! :like: :tu:
(https://i.imgur.com/iG6yeza.jpg)
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 05, 2019, 08:42:12 PM
Very nice KM87, Glenfiddich! Mine is more like your previous specimen, but I still like it. :)
(https://i.imgur.com/iG6yeza.jpg)
:tu: :drink:
Very nice!
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 06, 2019, 06:56:25 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190206/55d7d43037264470dfb54a1a7a45f35a.jpg)
Not only does it come with box and sheath, it also comes with the box that contained the box!
Post by: Rapidray on February 06, 2019, 07:01:20 PM
Newest addition is this all new and unused 2010 model DAK in its most complete form:Great find! :like: :tu:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190206/55d7d43037264470dfb54a1a7a45f35a.jpg)
Not only does it come with box and sheath, it also comes with the box that contained the box!
Post by: Reinier on February 06, 2019, 07:12:50 PM
Did it come with the instructions/papers in Dutch?
(https://i.imgflip.com/2t0e1w.jpg)
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 06, 2019, 07:31:24 PM
Boxception :ahhh
Did it come with the instructions/papers in Dutch?
(https://i.imgflip.com/2t0e1w.jpg)
:rofl:
Yup paperwork also present! Forgot to put that in the picture as well :D
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190206/a66db0b6a20e79fa47d2acb07ca8fbb4.jpg)
Post by: Reinier on February 06, 2019, 07:54:48 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 06, 2019, 08:07:59 PM
Post by: Rapidray on February 06, 2019, 09:25:03 PM
Post by: EMZ on February 07, 2019, 06:33:52 PM
The larger box is rarely seen, because most of the time the soldiers order their knives from the computerized armed forces logistics order system. They get only the knife in its small box plus the manual, while the larger box stays at the armed forces warehouse (and where it will be thrown away when it's empty).
Here's mine.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 07, 2019, 06:42:59 PM
Nice set indeed!
The larger box is rarely seen, because most of the time the soldiers order their knives from the computerized armed forces logistics order system. They get only the knife in its small box plus the manual, while the larger box stays at the armed forces warehouse (and where it will be thrown away when it's empty).
Here's mine.
Thanks, and nice to see another set with a large box!
I knew they existed but since I started collecting I have only seen it three times: mine, yours and one that contained 25 KL92 SAKs, that was two years ago. I then managed to get a couple of the KL92’s but another buyer (Sander K, you probably know him, he used to be very active in collecting and reselling) got the large box.
Post by: Reinier on February 07, 2019, 06:59:45 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 07, 2019, 07:03:03 PM
Ah, the guy with seven Marktplaats aliases and 42 eBay accounts ;)
Jup, that’s him :D
Post by: EMZ on February 24, 2019, 10:33:17 PM
Left one has a 2005 dated manual; middle one a 2013 dated manual; right one has a 2017 dated manual.
It is a small enigma, because the most recent one -at the right side- has an old type logo with a 'cross-less' pliers.
Post by: EMZ on February 24, 2019, 10:37:11 PM
Who knows something about the leather pouch which is stamped 'AGORA'.??
Post by: EMZ on February 24, 2019, 10:41:38 PM
Jup, that’s him :D
I have NO idea who he is! Can't remember ever doing business with him. Well, it's not me!
Post by: Rapidray on February 25, 2019, 12:28:28 AM
Here are the three slightly different types of Victorinox Spirits for the Dutch Army.Nice :like: :tu:
Left one has a 2005 dated manual; middle one a 2013 dated manual; right one has a 2017 dated manual.
It is a small enigma, because the most recent one -at the right side- has an old type logo with a 'cross-less' pliers.
Post by: Rapidray on February 25, 2019, 12:30:14 AM
Dutch Army line worker set with Knipex pliers, "Richard Abr. Herder' knife and 'Agora' leather sheet.The United States Military has a similar set up that I have always wanted but could never find! Very nice set you have! :like: :tu:
Who knows something about the leather pouch which is stamped 'AGORA'.??
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 25, 2019, 09:13:40 AM
Here are the three slightly different types of Victorinox Spirits for the Dutch Army.
Left one has a 2005 dated manual; middle one a 2013 dated manual; right one has a 2017 dated manual.
It is a small enigma, because the most recent one -at the right side- has an old type logo with a 'cross-less' pliers.
I really like how you meticulously acquire every single variation of every DAK! :hatsoff:
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 27, 2019, 09:16:07 AM
Today I found a unusual print in a "KL 93" DAK.
This type of knife is rather common, but I have never seen one with this extra imprint.
Seems to me that it is factory done.
Does anyone know the meaning of "T01" ??
A while ago I posted a message about the KL 1993 model with "T01" inscription.
Another Dutch collector has a second one (see pic). He's an retired Dutch Marine who got this T01 many years ago from a Dutch Commando. It was a test model, so the 'T' probably means 'test'.
I wonder how many of these test-models were made. Yesterday I received this one with T56 :D
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/d9ce0e3965dbc8f744c2827f651c6380.jpg)
Post by: Rapidray on February 27, 2019, 04:23:29 PM
Post by: EMZ on February 27, 2019, 09:01:33 PM
I wonder how many of these test-models were made. Yesterday I received this one with T56 :D
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/d9ce0e3965dbc8f744c2827f651c6380.jpg)
???????????? :think:
What's the tang stamp??
Considering it probably is a very normal, newer type of tang stamp, I doubt if these are testing models.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 28, 2019, 08:16:22 AM
???????????? :think:
What's the tang stamp??
Considering it probably is a very normal, newer type of tang stamp, I doubt if these are testing models.
Nothing special about the tang stamp in my opinion:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190228/ee1a7c414cb25d6b5ac3e81ed25703cf.jpg)
Post by: Rapidray on February 28, 2019, 05:00:10 PM
Nothing special about the tang stamp in my opinion:Nice close up of the scales! :like: :tu:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190228/ee1a7c414cb25d6b5ac3e81ed25703cf.jpg)
And the tang’s :cheers:
Post by: EMZ on February 28, 2019, 05:37:36 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 28, 2019, 06:41:17 PM
Glenfiddich, did the knife came with a story or something alike?
Nope. There wasn’t even a picture of the backside of the knife in the ad, so the T56 stamp was a nice surprise :salute:
I will ask the seller if perhaps he knows something about it.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 28, 2019, 08:39:11 PM
Post by: EMZ on March 24, 2019, 07:46:58 PM
Please take a look at these two ‘KL 1993’ knives. Both are in my collection. However, I had the top one almost thrown away, because the locking spring is broken. So this poor little soul was lying around, waiting to be destructed. The knife below is the standard knife with locking spring only for comparing
But but but… A little while ago I got an e-mail from a fellow Dutch collector. He recently had obtained an identical knife. He got it from a retired Netherlands Army officer who told him he got this knife from the military because he had been stationed in the UK, and in the UK lock-blade knives are forbidden. So the locking mechanism was removed. The e-mail was accompanied with a picture of this particular knife, and that knife had a broken spring at exactly the same spot and same way as my knife has!
Could it be a coincidence?? My knife came from a so called Dutch TSA auction. The knife of the fellow collector came directly from an army officer, including the story.
Do lock springs break at exactly that same point when over-stressed? I have no idea, but I don’t think so.
Do any of you have an idea??
Post by: cody6268 on March 24, 2019, 08:35:29 PM
One of the advantages of slide-lock. You can deactivate the lock by simply swapping scales.
Post by: EMZ on March 24, 2019, 10:00:40 PM
It must be done in the factory, or in a workshop.
Post by: EMZ on May 03, 2019, 08:28:25 PM
That's a good advice! I didn't realize it was that easy.
Post by: EMZ on May 03, 2019, 08:35:26 PM
This gimmick is given to kids and youngsters during Open Days of the Dutch Army, Air Force and Navy ('Defensie' means Defence, but it also means the combined armed services).
The slogan "Werken bij Defensie. Je moet het maar kunnen" means something like "Working at the Defence forces. You just have to be able."
Post by: Thunderpants on May 03, 2019, 09:06:50 PM
And I'd be seriously disappointed if they gave me on of those Scarab things instead!
Post by: EMZ on May 12, 2019, 09:38:12 PM
If I was in the Dutch "Defensie" I'd really be looking forward to getting one of their black Swisstool Spirits.
And I'd be seriously disappointed if they gave me on of those Scarab things instead!
:cheers: The DAK Spirit is my favorite multi-tool. It just has al the right tools and dimensions.
Post by: EMZ on May 12, 2019, 09:43:22 PM
There are small differences between the two knives.
The one in the first picture sold for € 600, the second for € 500. :ahhh
Post by: Mechanickal on May 12, 2019, 10:41:16 PM
What a load of funds...
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 13, 2019, 05:51:22 PM
And even though I know it was too expensive, I still somehow regret not bidding more :(
It is the missing piece in the collection, and who knows how long it will take for another chance :(
The alox KLu might just be the only knife I am willing to trade my Swiss shArK for :whistle:
Post by: Ron Who on May 13, 2019, 06:56:08 PM
The alox KLu might just be the only knife I am willing to trade my Swiss shArK for :whistle:
I know a few local Dutch army collectors, I´ll keep my eyes open for you.
I don´t want one myself, but the shark is on my list. :D
Post by: Reinier on May 13, 2019, 07:09:51 PM
Someone here notified me of the €600 one...
:)
I had missed that second one though.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 13, 2019, 07:19:37 PM
I know a few local Dutch army collectors, I´ll keep my eyes open for you.
I don´t want one myself, but the shark is on my list. :D
:D
Like I said:
I really wanted one of those, looking for one for years, but it was just too much money for me. Now I am sad :cry:
And even though I know it was too expensive, I still somehow regret not bidding more :(
It is the missing piece in the collection, and who knows how long it will take for another chance :(
The alox KLu might just be the only knife I am willing to trade my Swiss shArK for :whistle:
Post by: Osos on May 13, 2019, 11:14:31 PM
Post by: Mechanickal on May 14, 2019, 07:02:53 AM
Translates as "Marketplace"
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 14, 2019, 10:26:20 AM
I really wanted one of those, looking for one for years, but it was just too much money for me. Now I am sad :cry:
And even though I know it was too expensive, I still somehow regret not bidding more :(
It is the missing piece in the collection, and who knows how long it will take for another chance :(
The alox KLu might just be the only knife I am willing to trade my Swiss shArK for :whistle:
Oh who am I kidding & what was I thinking, the shArK can't go, because with 52 pieces made i'll probably never find another shArK anymore if I let this one go :facepalm:
Let's just say that I would consider trading a 108mm Fireman for an alox KLu :D
Post by: Osos on May 14, 2019, 10:55:59 AM
Dutch site called "Marktplaats"Thx. Know this place very well.
Translates as "Marketplace"
Anyway so many people looking for this craftsman, that price can be next time only higher. Pitty, also missing this model in my collection.
Post by: Ron Who on May 14, 2019, 08:02:52 PM
Let's just say that I would consider trading a 108mm Fireman for an alox KLu :D
It´s a long shot anyway and I guess you know it only too well. :(
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 14, 2019, 08:07:48 PM
Post by: Mechanickal on May 14, 2019, 08:24:30 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 14, 2019, 08:57:40 PM
Buy now or regret later...?
True :facepalm:
Post by: Mechanickal on May 14, 2019, 09:10:21 PM
"I told you so" :whistle:
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 14, 2019, 09:13:19 PM
I should add a line under my signature
"I told you so" :whistle:
Let me save you the trouble...
Post by: Mechanickal on May 14, 2019, 09:39:14 PM
Let me save you the trouble...Ohw?
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 14, 2019, 09:40:40 PM
Ohw?
Owh!
Post by: Mechanickal on May 14, 2019, 10:00:11 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 14, 2019, 10:02:37 PM
Can't see signatures since I changed theme...so... ?
...so change the theme back! Who would’t want signatures :dunno:
Post by: Mechanickal on May 14, 2019, 10:15:44 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 14, 2019, 10:16:52 PM
Post by: EMZ on May 14, 2019, 10:20:12 PM
This week two of the specimens of 'the holy grail of Victorinox' have been sold. (Different sellers!)
There are small differences between the two knives.
The one in the first picture sold for € 600, the second for € 500. :ahhh
BUT... But did somebody notice that the model in the top picture has an old style pen knife!??
I hadn't seen that variation before. Now tI identified 4 variation of this blue alox RNLAF survival knife.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 14, 2019, 10:25:31 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on June 05, 2019, 07:18:41 PM
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/z7qsolgmavongka/2019-06-05%2017.32.49.jpg?raw=1)
This is issued for the Dutch army staffing department.
Post by: EMZ on June 08, 2019, 10:10:52 PM
Is it a Spartan?
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on June 09, 2019, 10:05:30 AM
NICE!!
Is it a Spartan?
Thanks!
No, it's a 84mm recruit (no backside tools).
Post by: EMZ on June 10, 2019, 08:56:08 PM
Post by: Mechanickal on June 10, 2019, 10:00:17 PM
Post by: The Lone Wanderer on July 12, 2019, 01:46:00 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on July 12, 2019, 02:27:18 PM
Oh panel of wise experts, I have a question: What's a good price for a 111mm DAK with camo pouch? I've begun a hunt for one and figured I should ask, thanks!
On the Dutch online marketplace (marktplaats.nl) you should be able to find a new in box one with pouch for about 40 euro. Although most of them are sold without the pouch, so finding a DAK and finding a separate pouch should be easier than finding the combination of the two.
On eBay a new in box DAK goes for around 75 euro. Sometimes with pouch, sometimes without.
If you want help buying one on marktplaats.nl and forwarding it to you, send me a PM :cheers:
Post by: Guardian on July 12, 2019, 03:52:43 PM
Newest in the collection is this one:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/z7qsolgmavongka/2019-06-05%2017.32.49.jpg?raw=1)
This is issued for the Dutch army staffing department.
:like:
Post by: Guardian on July 12, 2019, 04:05:56 PM
On the Dutch online marketplace (marktplaats.nl) you should be able to find a new in box one with pouch for about 40 euro. Although most of them are sold without the pouch, so finding a DAK and finding a separate pouch should be easier than finding the combination of the two.
On eBay a new in box DAK goes for around 75 euro. Sometimes with pouch, sometimes without.
If you want help buying one on marktplaats.nl and forwarding it to you, send me a PM :cheers:
I bought my DAK from marketplaats and they were very good. It came with all the boxes glenfiddich mentioned a while ago and the camo pouch was actually shrink wrapped. Just seemed to cost a lot in P&P; but it was worth it :D
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on July 12, 2019, 04:16:34 PM
I bought my DAK from marketplaats and they were very good. It came with all the boxes glenfiddich mentioned a while ago and the camo pouch was actually shrink wrapped. Just seemed to cost a lot in P&P; but it was worth it :D
:like: :salute:
Post by: The Lone Wanderer on July 12, 2019, 07:50:49 PM
Post by: EMZ on July 13, 2019, 07:30:49 PM
I bought my DAK from marketplaats and they were very good. It came with all the boxes glenfiddich mentioned a while ago and the camo pouch was actually shrink wrapped. Just seemed to cost a lot in P&P; but it was worth it :D
Beware: The pouches dated 2007 are in fact for the terrible 'Zwanenburg' knife. Pouches dated 2009 and after are for the Victorinox knife.
The 2007 pouches were of course also used for the first batches of Victorinoxes.
The black pouches are for Dutch Military Police. These are hard to find.
Post by: EMZ on July 13, 2019, 07:38:39 PM
Unfortunately I was too late. It was already sold when I saw it, however I managed to secure the picture of the ad.
Koninklijke Marechaussee = Royal Military Police
Personeelsvoorziening = human resource management (as they call this nowadays)
Because the telephone number has 9 digits, the knife is dated before 1995/1996 (when all 9 digit tel.numbers were converted to 10 digits).
Post by: Guardian on July 15, 2019, 07:57:21 PM
:like: :salute:
:like: :2tu:
Post by: Osos on August 02, 2019, 11:20:39 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/1db528edf4ff5f29156ed3b7e8138466.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/86d16c2554713fc1e2718c5edf803b80.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/6c17716f5a46c640bbbf9822b16cb056.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/fd52908b402b64c30d438d439c8dd274.jpg)
Post by: Myron on August 02, 2019, 03:22:50 PM
Post by: Osos on August 02, 2019, 03:49:48 PM
Very cool! Is the knife an Amefa or a Victorinox?Thanks.
Year 73' means that have to be Amefa ;-)
Post by: EMZ on August 02, 2019, 04:15:13 PM
First time I see a stamped (TL 13) Knipex.
BTW, Osos, do realize you are robbing our Dutch cultural and military heritage? :cheers:
Post by: Osos on August 02, 2019, 07:11:50 PM
Nice find!
First time I see a stamped (TL 13) Knipex.
BTW, Osos, do realize you are robbing our Dutch cultural and military heritage? :cheers:
Yes I know, and I have to live with it, not easy, but...
Don't worry about Victorinox photos, it will not disappear.
with Amstel.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/d13c5153a7bc1ad701dc819b70204e05.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190802/c20c1c9ecbb805a2549c08a618199b83.jpg)
Post by: EMZ on August 10, 2019, 02:12:10 PM
Yes I know, and I have to live with it, not easy, but...
:cheers:
Post by: EMZ on August 10, 2019, 02:16:26 PM
Both are Dutch line worker knives:
1. CC Klein Tools with hawk bill blade.
2. Rich. A. Herder with blade stamped KL + lion.
Post by: Osos on August 10, 2019, 10:16:36 PM
By looking for different things, I found article about Chinese collector. And one of the photo from this article...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190810/d29090780c01da20f58331393781b291.jpg)
Post by: EMZ on August 11, 2019, 01:44:26 PM
1. CC Klein Tools with hawk bill blade.
Oops, should have typed BB Klein Tools instead of CC. :facepalm:
Post by: EMZ on August 11, 2019, 01:50:58 PM
Nice once EMZ.
By looking for different things, I found article about Chinese collector. And one of the photo from this article...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190810/d29090780c01da20f58331393781b291.jpg)
Yes, this Chinese collector had some very rare Dutch Air Force SAK's!
At least three are not in my collection {encircled in red).
And I have a spare one which is not in his collection...
Does anybody knows who this Chinese collector is?
Post by: Ivo on August 11, 2019, 03:06:22 PM
Post by: Osos on August 11, 2019, 03:36:15 PM
Yes, this Chinese collector had some very rare Dutch Air Force SAK's!
At least three are not in my collection {encircled in red).
And I have a spare one which is not in his collection...
Does anybody knows who this Chinese collector is?
His name is Haoran Yang, start collecting in 2013, just Victorinox fan.
But I didn't see him at knives group.
Oh how happy I would be with just one of this Victorinox...
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on August 11, 2019, 07:00:35 PM
Arrived this week ALOX KL85 and KL86 :woohoo:
:woohoo: :cheers:
Post by: Ivo on August 11, 2019, 07:19:29 PM
Post by: EMZ on August 11, 2019, 09:35:00 PM
These are my first from the Dutch Army :like:
WELCOME to the club!
(What took you so long??)
My favorite KL Vic is the 1983 version with brass liners.
Post by: Ivo on August 11, 2019, 10:09:30 PM
Post by: EMZ on August 11, 2019, 10:34:05 PM
His name is Haoran Yang, start collecting in 2013, just Victorinox fan.
But I didn't see him at knives group.
Oh how happy I would be with just one of this Victorinox...
Thanks Osos!
Maybe I send him an e-mail.
Post by: Ivo on September 07, 2019, 09:34:17 AM
The one in the middle is not a VIC.
Post by: Agamemnon on September 07, 2019, 11:52:21 AM
In the time before the Zwanenburg there was strong 'lobbying' to buy 'Dutch' knives instead of the Victorinox and so the Zwanenburg was purchased (cheaper). No success.
The Zwanenburg has the same NSN as the successor Victorinox Model 2010 (NSN 5110-17-106-2332), order: 872.2666.0336.11 - date 2008/05.
There are two versions of the Zwanenburg; the first version has 'normal' liners and weighs 158 gram. The second version (in an attempt to improve the knife) has thick liners (182 gram). Still no success.
So, back to Victorinox!
Post by: Ivo on September 07, 2019, 12:58:30 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on September 13, 2019, 05:45:49 PM
The first one is a new Victorinox DAK. It is a different model which I do not know and have not seen before.
The pocket knife has the same scales as the DAK 1993 and DAK 2010. The back layer tools are, as usual, the Philips screwdriver and the reamer/awl.
The layer tools: the locking cap-lifter/screw driver / wire-bender and the can-opener / small screw driver. So far nothing special.
But now it comes:
The partially serrated locking blade is liner-locking and one-handed oval opening, like the blade of the German 111 OH-GAK 3 (2003-2007). The stamp: “Victorinox / Switzerland / stainless steel” is on the tang.
On the same side as the blade is a belt cutter (version 1a) as can be found on the civilian “Fireman”.
It is suggested that it would be a prototype and could be placed on the timeline between the "Zwanenburg" and the "DAK 2010".
The pocket knife is not issued and therefore brand new.
So, who can tell me something about this knife?
And my second ‘new’ knife is the U.S. Victorinox ‘Knife, Combat, Utility’, NSN 1095-01-653-1166, dated 2017. Brand new and straight from the ‘supply sergeant’.
Post by: Reinier on September 13, 2019, 06:53:05 PM
And welcome to MTo :salute:
Post by: EMZ on September 13, 2019, 11:41:44 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on September 14, 2019, 10:13:24 AM
Post by: Reinier on September 14, 2019, 10:16:01 AM
Post by: Agamemnon on September 14, 2019, 11:33:11 AM
Post by: Agamemnon on September 27, 2019, 11:25:02 AM
At some point in history it was decided that the 1st Interservice model of Victorinox Model 1992 (DAK1993) had to be replaced by a knife with 3 layers (this also happened in the German army). Whereas Germany opted for Victorinox's 111 OH GAK (with wood saw instead of a belt cutter and an oval opening), the Netherlands opted for the notorious Zwanenburg. In retrospect, this turned out not to have been such a wise choice.
Germany continued with the 1st model of the 111 OH GAK although there was criticism of the oval opening. In 2007 the second model, 111 OH GAK, came into use, this time with a round opening that made it easier to open the knife with one hand.
The Netherlands did not need a wood saw, but rather had a belt cutter like it was in Zwanenburg. The OH-Parachutist from Victorinox came into the picture. A test model was introduced to replace the "Zwanenburg"; with the famous green scale and the Interservice logo and no scale tools - no need for..
For some reason (it is no longer possible to find out) they did not continue with this test model, so it was not used. In the end it was decided to continue in 2010 with Model 2010 that is still in use today.
My army friends had heard of this test model, but had never actually seen it. Their advice is to be very careful with this knife - there won't be many of them. Rare therefore.
Post by: Rapidray on September 27, 2019, 02:00:15 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on November 15, 2019, 04:29:03 PM
Thanks.
In addition to collecting the Dutch Army Knives (I have collected 124 different knives over the years), I try to find as much background information as possible: who used it and where was it used.
I know the "background" of most of my knives.
Post by: EMZ on November 15, 2019, 10:30:32 PM
:hatsoff:
In addition to collecting the Dutch Army Knives (I have collected 124 different knives over the years)...
I know the "background" of most of my knives.
:ahhh
I have only 80. You can call me a 'novice collector' :facepalm:
Post by: Rapidray on November 16, 2019, 02:09:00 AM
You guys have some serious knives there! :hatsoff:
Post by: Ivo on December 06, 2019, 11:17:25 AM
- AMEFA : KL66 - KL74 - KL75 - KL78 - KL84 2x
- Vic : KL83 - KL85 - KL86 - KL87 - KL88 - KL89 2x - KL90 - KL91 - KL92
- Vic : DAK93 DE-GM 9305297
- ZWANENBURG 158gr
- DAK10 2x
Post by: Rapidray on December 06, 2019, 05:34:16 PM
My DAK collection has grown a bit :hatsoff: and in addition I have more than 800 other knives and multi tool.800 :sa:
- AMEFA : KL66 - KL74 - KL75 - KL78 - KL84 2x
- Vic : KL83 - KL85 - KL86 - KL87 - KL88 - KL89 2x - KL90 - KL91 - KL92
- Vic : DAK93 DE-GM 9305297
- ZWANENBURG 158gr
- DAK10 2x
That is a great collection! :like: :cheers:
Post by: Ivo on December 06, 2019, 06:30:20 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on December 08, 2019, 11:52:52 AM
Looking at the KL87: The stamp on these knives was "VICTORINOX". In 1986/87 the stamp was changed to "Victorinox".
The standard 93 mm blades are used for assembly. The old stock is first used up and then switched to the new one. As a result, both types of stamps can be found on the 1987 knives: "VICTORINOX" (old) and "Victorinox" (new).
This is also the case with the KM87 knives
Post by: Agamemnon on December 08, 2019, 12:42:25 PM
DAK 93 with DE-GM (Deutschland-GebrauchsMuster) on the left ricasso was provided in the period 1994 - 2010 under the name DAK 1993. (NSN 7340-17-106-2332).
In 2006, Victorinox stopped with the DE-GM stamp (a "lighter form of patent” - according to Victorinox - and this had expired). The knives made after 2006 therefore no longer have a DE-GM stamp.
(By the way: I have 10 different DAK93 knives)
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on December 08, 2019, 01:09:25 PM
(By the way: I have 10 different DAK93 knives)
I think we will be needing some picture evidence of that :pok: :D
Post by: Rapidray on December 08, 2019, 02:49:37 PM
Hi Ivo,That is some great information! :like: :cheers:
Looking at the KL87: The stamp on these knives was "VICTORINOX". In 1986/87 the stamp was changed to "Victorinox".
The standard 93 mm blades are used for assembly. The old stock is first used up and then switched to the new one. As a result, both types of stamps can be found on the 1987 knives: "VICTORINOX" (old) and "Victorinox" (new).
This is also the case with the KM87 knives
Post by: Rapidray on December 08, 2019, 02:51:42 PM
Post by: Ivo on December 08, 2019, 06:03:44 PM
Hi Ivo,
Looking at the KL87: The stamp on these knives was "VICTORINOX". In 1986/87 the stamp was changed to "Victorinox".
The standard 93 mm blades are used for assembly. The old stock is first used up and then switched to the new one. As a result, both types of stamps can be found on the 1987 knives: "VICTORINOX" (old) and "Victorinox" (new).
This is also the case with the KM87 knives
Thanks I didn't know that, I will check my DAK's and see what I have, thanks for the info. :tu: :cheers:
Post by: Ivo on December 08, 2019, 06:04:19 PM
Hi Ivo,
DAK 93 with DE-GM (Deutschland-GebrauchsMuster) on the left ricasso was provided in the period 1994 - 2010 under the name DAK 1993. (NSN 7340-17-106-2332).
In 2006, Victorinox stopped with the DE-GM stamp (a "lighter form of patent” - according to Victorinox - and this had expired). The knives made after 2006 therefore no longer have a DE-GM stamp.
(By the way: I have 10 different DAK93 knives)
Can we see pictures of the 10 versions ?
Post by: Ivo on December 08, 2019, 06:13:05 PM
Post by: Myron on December 09, 2019, 03:57:24 AM
Hi Ivo,
Looking at the KL87: The stamp on these knives was "VICTORINOX". In 1986/87 the stamp was changed to "Victorinox".
The standard 93 mm blades are used for assembly. The old stock is first used up and then switched to the new one. As a result, both types of stamps can be found on the 1987 knives: "VICTORINOX" (old) and "Victorinox" (new).
This is also the case with the KM87 knives
My KL is a '91 and has the big V VSSR stamp. My KM (all of these were '87's as I understand it) has the small V VSSR stamp.
(https://i.imgur.com/Wo3IQE6.jpg)
Post by: Ike582 on December 09, 2019, 09:02:19 AM
Post by: Ivo on December 09, 2019, 11:27:55 AM
Post by: Ivo on December 09, 2019, 11:28:17 AM
My KL is a '91 and has the big V VSSR stamp. My KM (all of these were '87's as I understand it) has the small V VSSR stamp.
(https://i.imgur.com/Wo3IQE6.jpg)
Nice :like: :tu:
Post by: Rapidray on December 09, 2019, 02:21:53 PM
My KL is a '91 and has the big V VSSR stamp. My KM (all of these were '87's as I understand it) has the small V VSSR stamp.Oh boy, those are so nice! :drool:
(https://i.imgur.com/Wo3IQE6.jpg)
Post by: Rapidray on December 09, 2019, 02:22:52 PM
My KL 85, 86, 90 & 92:Nice collection there :like:
Post by: Myron on December 09, 2019, 03:17:04 PM
Oh boy, those are so nice! :drool:
Thank you Ray!
Post by: Ivo on December 09, 2019, 03:49:05 PM
My KL is a '91 and has the big V VSSR stamp. My KM (all of these were '87's as I understand it) has the small V VSSR stamp.
(https://i.imgur.com/Wo3IQE6.jpg)
Ooooh you got a KM :drool: :drool: :drool: very nice :drool: :drool: :drool:
Post by: Agamemnon on December 09, 2019, 08:26:37 PM
1a, 1b) In 1992 the Dutch army was looking for a replacement for the obsolete Pioneer model. A Victorinox Centurion with ‘slide-lock’ was tested as the “KL92”. (Green scale – Patent pending, Black scale – patented).
We choose Model 1992 as DAK1993 (liner lock)
2) Presentation knife – black scale, gold coloured logo
3) Unissued DAK 93 including pouch (model Alice Clip).
4) DAK 93 with DE-GM 9305297 - Stamp: Victorinox / SWITZERLAND / STAINLESS.
5) DAK 1993 with DE-GM 9305297 – Stamp Victorinox/ SWITZERLAND / STAINLESS. With toothpick and tweezers
6) DAK 1993 with DE-GM 9305297 – Stamp - Victorinox / SWITZERLAND.
7) In the United Kingdom, just like in Germany, it is absolutely forbidden to have lockable knives. The "liner lock" has therefore been removed for Dutch soldiers stationed in the UK.
8) DAK 93 with DE-GM 9305297 – Stamp: Victorinox / switzerland.
9a, 9b) At a given moment the first DAK’s were used up, the armed forces were temporarily provided with a black of green Centurion civilian version (with tweezers and toothpick). Stamp: DE-GM 9305297 - Victorinox / SWITZERLAND / STAINLESS. (Black variant: issued KMA (Royal Military Academy) Breda, ca. 2007; Green variant: issued KMS (Royal Military School) Ermelo, ca. 2005/06)
10) DAK 93 without DE-GM 9305297 Stamp: Victorinox / SWITZERLAND / STAINLESS / ROSTFREI
11) DAK 93 without DE-GM 9305297 Stamp: Victorinox/SWISS MADE/STAINLESS. Liners marked “Liner lock”.
Post by: Agamemnon on December 09, 2019, 08:28:04 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on December 09, 2019, 08:31:10 PM
Have a look - there is a difference in the size of the fonts
Post by: Rapidray on December 09, 2019, 08:37:11 PM
Post by: Myron on December 09, 2019, 10:45:08 PM
Ooooh you got a KM :drool: :drool: :drool: very nice :drool: :drool: :drool:
Thanks Ivo!
Post by: Myron on December 09, 2019, 10:47:52 PM
Very cool collection. Thank you for sharing it and for explaining the myriad tiny differences. Great resource for anyone else wanting to follow
Myron
Post by: Ivo on December 10, 2019, 12:10:42 AM
Post by: Agamemnon on December 10, 2019, 08:45:58 AM
Post by: Aloha on December 10, 2019, 03:23:59 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on December 10, 2019, 05:51:14 PM
Would really love to add one to the collection! I’ll keep my eyes wide open!
Post by: Rapidray on December 10, 2019, 05:59:52 PM
That one caught my eye also! :cheers:
Post by: EMZ on December 12, 2019, 10:01:58 PM
9a, 9b) At a given moment the first DAK’s were used up, the armed forces were temporarily provided with a black of green Centurion civilian version (with tweezers and toothpick). Stamp: DE-GM 9305297 - Victorinox / SWITZERLAND / STAINLESS. (Black variant: issued KMA (Royal Military Academy) Breda, ca. 2007; Green variant: issued KMS (Royal Military School) Ermelo, ca. 2005/06)
Addition to number 9b (green variant Victorinox 0.8453.4).
I found this one in my collection: The green variant, but stamped DE-GM 9305297 - VICTORINOX / switzerland.
Don't know for sure if it was actually a DAK. According to the person I bought this knife from, it came from the inheritance of a DAK collector (that was all the seller knew).
Post by: EMZ on December 12, 2019, 10:13:32 PM
I only was aware of the green one with gold logo.
Post by: Wspeed on December 12, 2019, 10:55:48 PM
Post by: Rapidray on December 13, 2019, 12:31:41 AM
Addition to number 9b (green variant Victorinox 0.8453.4).It is nice! :like: :cheers:
I found this one in my collection: The green variant, but stamped DE-GM 9305297 - VICTORINOX / switzerland.
Don't know for sure if it was actually a DAK. According to the person I bought this knife from, it came from the inheritance of a DAK collector (that was all the seller knew).
Post by: Rapidray on December 13, 2019, 12:32:47 AM
The black one with GOLD logo is amazing!Green or black, they are both nice ones to have with the gold :cheers:
I only was aware of the green one with gold logo.
Post by: Ivo on December 13, 2019, 10:16:02 AM
Post by: Agamemnon on December 13, 2019, 11:32:16 AM
1) KLU (Airforce);
2) Landmacht (Army);
3) Luchtmacht (Airforce);
4) Landmacht (Royal Netherlans Army)
and there is more to come :whistle:
Post by: Wspeed on December 13, 2019, 01:19:52 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on December 13, 2019, 04:25:37 PM
The complete range of Alox Amefa knives: (KL72 - KL82 & KL84, including KLu74)
In the years 1972, 1973 and 1974 this knife has three components. There was no can opener and the bottle opener was on the blade site. The can-opener was provided separately.
In the following years we switched to the 4-component pocket knife, incluiding the can opener.
And the complete range of Alox Victorinox knives: (KL83, KL85 - KL92, including KM87)
Post by: Agamemnon on December 13, 2019, 04:26:20 PM
Post by: Myron on December 13, 2019, 04:51:48 PM
Post by: Wspeed on December 13, 2019, 05:20:24 PM
Post by: Ike582 on December 13, 2019, 05:24:17 PM
Post by: Ivo on December 13, 2019, 05:32:53 PM
Post by: Rapidray on December 13, 2019, 08:59:40 PM
And now some Multitools "used" by (or given as present to) the Dutch Army:Well that’s interesting :tu:
1) KLU (Airforce);
2) Landmacht (Army);
3) Luchtmacht (Airforce);
4) Landmacht (Royal Netherlans Army)
and there is more to come :whistle:
Post by: Rapidray on December 13, 2019, 09:00:31 PM
:climber:Oh boy, that is a great selection of Dutch Army knives! :like: :cheers:
The complete range of Alox Amefa knives: (KL72 - KL82 & KL84, including KLu74)
In the years 1972, 1973 and 1974 this knife has three components. There was no can opener and the bottle opener was on the blade site. The can-opener was provided separately.
In the following years we switched to the 4-component pocket knife, incluiding the can opener.
And the complete range of Alox Victorinox knives: (KL83, KL85 - KL92, including KM87)
Post by: Rapidray on December 13, 2019, 09:01:11 PM
And the Victorinox:And it got even better! :2tu:
Post by: Agamemnon on December 14, 2019, 11:31:58 AM
Amazing collection. Well done. Are you a veteran of the Dutch services? Just wondering.
an 'old' one
Post by: Agamemnon on December 15, 2019, 12:47:42 PM
1) The complete range of the brown fiber Amefa blades (including KLU63 & KLU65)
Look for the differences. Hint: tang stamps and position of the bottle opener
2) It is assumed that this (green) knife was made by Amefa. There is no confirmation. It was issued to the Mobile Colonnes Corps (KMC) in 1955. This Corps existed from 1955 to 1993.
3) A very old one. It was from my great-grandfather; A gunnery sergeant and was provided in 1876.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on December 15, 2019, 01:10:32 PM
Post by: Wspeed on December 15, 2019, 01:13:20 PM
Post by: EMZ on December 15, 2019, 02:29:33 PM
The "oldies".
1) The complete range of the brown fiber Amefa blades (including KLU63 & KLU65)
Almost complete...
Sorry, but here's the KLU 64. No manufacturer's name, however probably Ameva.
Post by: EMZ on December 15, 2019, 02:30:50 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on December 15, 2019, 05:18:51 PM
Almost complete...
Sorry, but here's the KLU 64. No manufacturer's name, however probably Ameva.
Thanks for your feed back EMZ. I have indeed not mentioned the KLU64 because I am not sure that this is an Amefa knife (I think it is - but no confirmation). This is for two reasons: no name of the manufacturer and a different configuration of the letters.
And I thought there was no DAK production at Amefa in 1964.
Post by: Ivo on December 15, 2019, 05:27:10 PM
The "oldies".
1) The complete range of the brown fiber Amefa blades (including KLU63 & KLU65)
Look for the differences. Hint: tang stamps and position of the bottle opener
2) It is assumed that this (green) knife was made by Amefa. There is no confirmation. It was issued to the Mobile Colonnes Corps (KMC) in 1955. This Corps existed from 1955 to 1993.
3) A very old one. It was from my great-grandfather; A gunnery sergeant and was provided in 1876.
Very nice :drool: :drool: :drool: :like: :tu:
Post by: Dmitry on December 19, 2019, 07:07:56 PM
Hi Ivo,
Looking at the KL87: The stamp on these knives was "VICTORINOX". In 1986/87 the stamp was changed to "Victorinox".
The standard 93 mm blades are used for assembly. The old stock is first used up and then switched to the new one. As a result, both types of stamps can be found on the 1987 knives: "VICTORINOX" (old) and "Victorinox" (new).
This is also the case with the KM87 knives
it is interesting. DAK 86 was still with the shackle and in 1987 it is key ring already. while Victorinox moved officers' knives to key ring as from 1968/69. or this bail was added in purpose in DAK ?
Post by: Shuya on December 19, 2019, 08:13:59 PM
7) In the United Kingdom, just like in Germany, it is absolutely forbidden to have lockable knives. The "liner lock" has therefore been removed for Dutch soldiers stationed in the UK.
Just to clarify: locking blades are perfectly legal in germany.
The only restriction here are one hand locking blades where you need a legal reason (in theory, for real its almost forbidden to carry).
German troops have the OHO Trekker, but are allowed to have it while on duty.
Post by: Dmitry on December 24, 2019, 08:01:18 PM
These two knives I found in my letter box this week :D
Both are Dutch line worker knives:
1. CC Klein Tools with hawk bill blade.
2. Rich. A. Herder with blade stamped KL + lion.
is there any more info about KL+ lion knife? looks like electrician knife with stamp TL. is this one also kind of connection to electrician in KL?
Post by: Agamemnon on December 25, 2019, 03:48:57 PM
The knife is the Dutch version of the "Lineman" TL-29 of the US Signal Corps. In the Netherlands it was issued to the "Genie"/"Verbindingstroepen" - electricians/line workers.
(Signal Corps).
It was made by Rich. Herder, Solingen and was in use in 1940-1950.
Post by: Dmitry on December 25, 2019, 08:01:01 PM
Post by: Rapidray on December 26, 2019, 03:17:39 AM
KL + (Dutch) Lion:Very nice! :cheers:
The knife is the Dutch version of the "Lineman" TL-29 of the US Signal Corps. In the Netherlands it was issued to the "Genie"/"Verbindingstroepen" - electricians/line workers.
(Signal Corps).
It was made by Rich. Herder, Solingen and was in use in 1940-1950.
Post by: Agamemnon on December 26, 2019, 12:34:25 PM
Royal Dutch Navy Sailors knife (“Kortjan”)with scabbard :hatsoff:
Sailors were issued a sailor knife on arrival. This knife was provided with their "studbook number" (registration number). This number was written on both the knife and the sheath.
Most veterans have memories of their knife and do not dispose of it. For that reason, few of these knives are "up for sale".
Knife: stainless steel single-edged blade, wooden handle with three riveted brass nails. Leather sheath with loop for attachment to the belt and strap with snap button for holding the knife in place in the sheath.
Dimensions: Total length without sheath: 265 mm, with sheath: 310 mm.
The sheath is 274 mm. (incl. loop) Blade: 146 x 28 x 2 mm at the hilt.
Hilt: The handle is made of two wooden plates which are attached with three brass rivets. The studbook number of the sailor is ‘written’ in the hilt.
Blade: Is made of stainless steel, single-edged. Has a "spearpoint" shape. In addition to the manufacturer's name and logo, the blade also says: Kon. Marine (Royal Navy) 1955.
Sheath: Black leather sheath with loop and belt with push button to secure the knife in the sheath. The text on the back of the loop is: "KON.MARINE-VALK. "55".
De Valk (the Falcon)
J. de Valk was a leather goods manufacturer in Amsterdam who already made leather goods for the Dutch army in the 1930s. In particular inner linings for helmets, and bayonet sheaths are known.
After the occupation of the Netherlands in May 1940, the company continued production for the Germans. It is known that ammunition pouches and belts were made.
Post by: Wspeed on December 26, 2019, 01:46:21 PM
Post by: Myron on December 26, 2019, 04:02:04 PM
Post by: Rapidray on December 26, 2019, 04:48:07 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on December 27, 2019, 09:49:38 AM
Beautiful knives, Agamemnon. What was their main purpose, meal prep, general utility?
Hi Myron,
In earlier times, the equipment of the sailors on board the sailing ships consisted of a revolver, the sailor's knife and the entersaber. The knife was mainly used for cutting ropes and for all kinds of other things. So general utility.
I asked my friend what he did with the knife.
This knife was only used during the (basic)training in the Marine Training Camp Hilversum. Afterwards it was put in the locker because it was "too difficult" to wear in the service section VLMNT / RRMT (fire control fitters). So he preferred his ‘regular’ army knife.
Post by: Rapidray on December 27, 2019, 04:37:36 PM
Hi Myron,That is some great information! :tu:
In earlier times, the equipment of the sailors on board the sailing ships consisted of a revolver, the sailor's knife and the entersaber. The knife was mainly used for cutting ropes and for all kinds of other things. So general utility.
I asked my friend what he did with the knife.
This knife was only used during the (basic)training in the Marine Training Camp Hilversum. Afterwards it was put in the locker because it was "too difficult" to wear in the service section VLMNT / RRMT (fire control fitters). So he preferred his ‘regular’ army knife.
Post by: Dmitry on December 29, 2019, 10:28:05 AM
Hi Myron,
In earlier times, the equipment of the sailors on board the sailing ships consisted of a revolver, the sailor's knife and the entersaber. The knife was mainly used for cutting ropes and for all kinds of other things. So general utility.
I asked my friend what he did with the knife.
This knife was only used during the (basic)training in the Marine Training Camp Hilversum. Afterwards it was put in the locker because it was "too difficult" to wear in the service section VLMNT / RRMT (fire control fitters). So he preferred his ‘regular’ army knife.
What a great piece of history!! thumbs up ! :tu: :tu: :tu:
Post by: Agamemnon on January 14, 2020, 12:17:57 PM
Speaking of ‘general utility’”:
Not all sailor knives were treated with equal care.
A knife from another comrade of mine was also used to get the weeds from between his garden tiles and that leaves its mark.
These four are the sailor knives in my collection, by the way.
Post by: Myron on January 14, 2020, 01:05:26 PM
These are really fantastic. How generally available are they? Do you find them for sale in the Netherlands commonly, or must you know someone who has one?
Thanks for posting; I really enjoy learning about these tools from your posts.
Myron
Post by: Rapidray on January 14, 2020, 01:56:57 PM
Post by: Wspeed on January 14, 2020, 02:00:54 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on January 14, 2020, 03:33:40 PM
Thanks guys
These knives are sold very occasionally, so they are rare. (Emptying the parents' house is sometimes a reason.)
If you join the Navy, you get such a knife. Your registration number was written on this knife; it was really your knife. If you left the navy, you took your knife with you and it remained yours forever. So we don’t give away our knife.
The Dutch Veterans have a magazine, called "Checkpoint" and I occasionally ask if anyone wants to give up his knife. This happens very occasionally; the only reason they want to do this is that they are afraid that the children want to get rid of the knife because they have "nothing" with the knife. In that case they prefer to give the knife to a ‘B.I.A.’
Post by: SirVicaLot on January 14, 2020, 03:37:10 PM
Post by: Rapidray on January 14, 2020, 04:10:03 PM
:cheers: :cheers:That is some great info and history :cheers:
Thanks guys
These knives are sold very occasionally, so they are rare. (Emptying the parents' house is sometimes a reason.)
If you join the Navy, you get such a knife. Your registration number was written on this knife; it was really your knife. If you left the navy, you took your knife with you and it remained yours forever. So we don’t give away our knife.
The Dutch Veterans have a magazine, called "Checkpoint" and I occasionally ask if anyone wants to give up his knife. This happens very occasionally; the only reason they want to do this is that they are afraid that the children want to get rid of the knife because they have "nothing" with the knife. In that case they prefer to give the knife to a ‘B.I.A.’
Post by: Guardian on January 24, 2020, 11:36:29 PM
Very hard to get in a descent condition
Found this picture which shows the black pouch been worn on a duty belt......
Post by: Agamemnon on January 25, 2020, 11:51:59 AM
There are 2 types of these pouches (as far as I know):
1) Alice clip (the older ones, in woodland and desert config.) they were used for the DAK93,
2) Molle (the new ones, in woodland en black (KMAR) config, used for the DAK2010.
And of course the 'special' ones: Leatherman (SuperTool) with Interservice logo, and Victorinox (SwissTool) with 11 Luchtmobile Brigade logo (11 Air Assault Brigade). The 11 LMB was a Xmas present (I think it was in 1997) for the brigade.
Post by: Agamemnon on January 25, 2020, 11:53:40 AM
Post by: SirVicaLot on January 25, 2020, 03:03:07 PM
Post by: Rapidray on January 25, 2020, 03:04:04 PM
Post by: Guardian on January 25, 2020, 09:54:20 PM
and of course I also have these pouches in my collection:
There are 2 types of these pouches (as far as I know):
1) Alice clip (the older ones, in woodland and desert config.) they were used for the DAK93,
2) Molle (the new ones, in woodland en black (KMAR) config, used for the DAK2010.
And of course the 'special' ones: Leatherman (SuperTool) with Interservice logo, and Victorinox (SwissTool) with 11 Luchtmobile Brigade logo (11 Air Assault Brigade). The 11 LMB was a Xmas present (I think it was in 1997) for the brigade.
:like:
So does the KMAR pouch hold the DAK2010 or the Swisstool? :think:
Post by: Agamemnon on January 26, 2020, 11:33:24 AM
Post by: Agamemnon on January 26, 2020, 12:24:56 PM
Another part of my collection Dutch Army Knives are the Lineman Tools.
My Lineman knives vary from new (never used) to heavily used.
1) Belzer; new, out of the toolbox;
2) R, Herder; new, out of the same toolbox;
3) R. Herder; new, out of the same toolbox;
4) R. Herder, (with Dutch Lion on the blade);
5) Camillus – TL29; issued to Dutch Signal Corps;
6) CC Klein - Hawkbill, complete with pouch and pliers; In use between 1950 1965;
7) Unbranded – marked 4630 on the scale; in use before 1940. I don’t know (yet) what the digits mean
8) Unbranded – KLU: Lets Knife used at Deelen Airbase. In the late 40s and early 50s, classrooms for theory and practice were housed here as part of the LTS and LETS (Electricity and Instrument Technology). The LETS Deelen (Electronic and Technical School Air Force) was a continuation of LETS Langham (England)
9) Unbranded - RP 67. Issued to the “Bescherming Bevolking” The Population Protection (BB) was the Dutch civil protection organization that was established in 1952 to protect the population in time of war. The organization was set up after the English model where civil protection had played an important role during the Second World War. From the 1970s, less money went to the BB all the time. On December 7, 1981, the Minister of the Interior announced that the BB would be phased out. The BB was formally abolished on 11 June 1986.
10) Unbranded – green scales – KL. The knife was in use in the 1st half of the 1950s. It is believed that it was also made by Amefa. It was issued to the Mobile Colonnes Corps (KMC), a part of the Dutch armed forces that existed from 1955 to the end of 1992 and was aimed at emergency aid, especially in wartime. The purpose of the KMC was to support the Population Protection (BB).
Post by: Agamemnon on January 26, 2020, 12:26:31 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on January 26, 2020, 12:28:10 PM
Post by: Rapidray on January 26, 2020, 03:08:40 PM
Yes Guardian, the DAK 2010 fits in the black KMAR pouch (issued to KMAR) but also in the Woodland version (issued to the 'others', and the Victorinox Spirit-BO goes into the brown pouch with the interservice logo (also in my collection):drool: :drool:
Oh boy, those are beautiful :like: :cheers:
Post by: Rapidray on January 26, 2020, 03:10:03 PM
Post by: EMZ on January 26, 2020, 07:46:01 PM
If you have any additions, please let me know.
Post by: Agamemnon on January 27, 2020, 03:03:22 PM
Another part of my collection of Dutch army knives / daggers are the Storm daggers.
It took me many years to get these together.
I only miss the successor to the storm dagger: it was introduced in the 1960s for the Marine Corps and was made in the United States.
It is a conversion based on the American M4 carbine bayonet, with an American handle of composite leather rings, modified aluminium hilt knob and slender guard; in addition an American plastic sheath model US M8A1, with webbing support and metal tip reinforcement. It was a very limited number of daggers (about 5,000 items) and were around 1997 all destroyed.
The Storm dagger was specially developed and introduced for the storm troops, founded in 1917. The storm troops were elite soldiers who had to lead the regular troops in an attack. The First World War was characterized by man-to-man fighting in the trenches. The military authorities thought that there should be a weapon suitable for such a fight. It became the dagger. This dagger was nicknamed 'Storm dagger', because the storm troops started using it.
In October 1917 an order was placed at the Artillery Establishments in Haarlem for the manufacture of 30,000 daggers, possibly 50,000 items. In April 1918 the management of the Artillery Institutions announced that the production of 50,000 pieces would soon be completed. Although an order was made for 30,000 and not yet for the other 20,000 daggers, the parties involved were not bothered about that.
The storm dagger remained in use until 1924. Around that year, most of the daggers disappeared into the depots because the storm troops were disbanded. Only in the last months of 1939 were the daggers removed from the depot due to the mobilization. On April 17, 1940, the commander-in-chief reported that there were no more daggers in stock at that time.
Of the 50,000 copies, 2,780 were issued to the Marine Corps.
The daggers were given a serial number, a number with a letter.
A number of variants of the storm dagger; from left to right:
• First model storm dagger (without strap)
• Storm dagger marines (with screw through the handle)
• Storm dagger for the navy (with navy numbering)
• Storm dagger for mounted officers (factory-converted carrying loop)
• Storm dagger for mounted officers (with privately converted carrying loop)
• The general storm dagger KL (most common variant)
• Storm dagger for the navy (with two navy plates on the back)
Post by: Rapidray on January 27, 2020, 03:15:06 PM
Post by: Wspeed on January 27, 2020, 04:14:09 PM
Post by: Guardian on January 27, 2020, 09:47:40 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on February 22, 2020, 11:38:13 AM
My latest addition to my 'lineman tools'
* N Klein (1977);
* Z Klein (1988);
* TL-29, Herm. Spicker, Wuppertal
Post by: Wspeed on February 22, 2020, 01:52:20 PM
Post by: Rapidray on February 22, 2020, 02:10:28 PM
Post by: Myron on February 22, 2020, 02:51:13 PM
Nice set! I have a Camillus TL-29 that's a bit older. 1970's, I think. I don't use it as a pocket knife, but it's such a heavy duty piece of kit that it makes a great throw-it-in-your-car-glovebox tool. The screwdriver alone is worth having nearby.
Again, very cool collection you have there.
Myron
Post by: Agamemnon on February 29, 2020, 03:08:36 PM
Thanks guys.
big - bigger - Biggest
on a rainy and stormy Saturday: a comparison between an American and a Dutch army knife (both in my collection)
Post by: Wspeed on February 29, 2020, 03:11:37 PM
Post by: cody6268 on March 01, 2020, 01:52:54 AM
Been looking at getting one of these for ages. They can be quite expensive; especially if they are Colonial. The unmarked; made by United Machine out of MI; are often much less expensive. Plus, finding them without a broken saw blade can be difficult.
Post by: Agamemnon on March 01, 2020, 01:31:10 PM
"A picture is worth a thousand words"
Post by: Wspeed on March 01, 2020, 01:52:22 PM
Post by: Rapidray on March 01, 2020, 09:00:05 PM
Such a cool collection! :like:
Post by: Agamemnon on March 02, 2020, 02:32:05 PM
A little bit background info about Amefa army knives.
After the Second World War the Dutch army used the left overs of the Canadian and British army, including the pocket knives.
Many of the mainly English knives are used in the Dutch East Indies - Bersiap period - Police Actions and during the New Guinea issue.
In the meantime, Amefa popped up in the Netherlands. This "Apeldoornsche Messenfabriek" (Apeldoorn Knife Factory) was founded by Eugen Hollaender in 1931. He came to Apeldoorn from Germany at the age of 25 and started a razor company.
Competition intensified in the 1940s and the company focused on kitchen knives and pocket knives, including army knives. Between 1945 and 1914 Amefa made knives in the same configuration as the "Candidius".
After the 2nd World War the "new" pocket knives came in the equipment of a Dutch soldier. It started in the 1950s when AMEFA started producing pocket knives that consisted of 4 parts.
The very first knife was made by Instalex; an identical knife as the Amefa, but marked with "INSTALEX". Instalex was part of Amefa and traded in steel. The knife was marked with Instalex (Internationale Staalwaren Export Maatschappij = International Steel Export Company) to indicate the origin of the steel. In the following years, the Instalex stamp was replaced by Amefa.
In the early days, knives appeared in which the location of the bottle opener and the can opener was different from the later models – blade and can opener on the same side and the bottle opener on the other side. You can also see this phenomenon with American knives (Kingston - USMC)
Later an Amefa knife also appeared with the stamp “Rostfrei” on the other side of the blade. In my entire collection this marking only appears on 1 knife.
The Amefa era lasted until the early 80s when the Swiss company Victorinox started supplying the Dutch service knives.
Post by: Wspeed on March 02, 2020, 04:00:09 PM
Post by: EMZ on March 04, 2020, 10:01:13 PM
Post by: EMZ on March 04, 2020, 10:06:03 PM
Post by: Wspeed on March 05, 2020, 06:47:47 PM
Post by: EMZ on March 05, 2020, 11:19:52 PM
I love the old Amefa (top picture) with the small shield at the backside. Never saw this one before. Is beneath the shield the text "Amsterdam"??
The knife I have does have the staped shield with 'Amsterdam', but lacks the 'Amefa' stamp.
Post by: Agamemnon on March 06, 2020, 11:29:39 AM
Thanks EMZ for the remarks.
1) I am going to look for the new pouch
2) The text is indeed "Amsterdam". But on the picture are 2 different knives.
The top one is the "Amesterdam" and does not have the stamp "Amefa", and the other one is the "Amefa" (without "Amsterdam")
Post by: Guardian on March 06, 2020, 02:43:32 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on March 09, 2020, 12:22:06 PM
The CEE (Cavalerie Ere Escorte) knife.
First a small story and then the pictures:
On the third Tuesday of September it is in the Netherlands “Prinsjesdag”.
Prinsjesdag (Little Prince Day) is the day on which the reigning monarch of the Netherlands addresses a joint session of the Dutch Senate and House of Representatives to give the speech from the throne (Dutch: Troonrede); setting out the main features of government policy for the coming parliamentary session.
Mounted Honorary Escort of the Cavalry (2nd platoon)
The Stable Master of the King on horseback has a free place within the parade. A total of 68 horses are taken part. A small part comes from the Royal Stables, but because the army no longer has any horses, a large part is temporarily borrowed from private individuals and ridden by the Cavalry Honorary Escort.
During Prinsjesdag the Second Platoon rides at the head of the parade behind the Royal Military Chapel "Johan Willem Friso".
The First or Officers Platoon rides behind the Golden Carriage and continues the tradition of the former officer escorts, which are formed on special occasions.
The uniform worn by officers, non-commissioned officers and hussars was introduced in 1867 by HM King Willem III.
The officers wear a silver so-called giberne (a cartridge bag with a bandelier) over the left shoulder and a high white feather on the busby.
Petty officers and hussars have a short, white horsehair brush on the busby instead of a plume. Furthermore, they are riding with "pulled" saber (on the shoulder).
The CEE knife is a Reminder knife and was given to the participants during the Escort Dinner on the eve of Prince's Day. I think, it was somewhere between 1974 and 1978. No more than 100 pieces have been supplied.
Post by: Wspeed on March 09, 2020, 02:28:01 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on April 19, 2020, 11:54:40 AM
DAK 1993
A few weeks ago I received my newest addition: a DAK93 with DE-GM mark. So the knife dates from before 2006. So far "nothing special", but this knife, with green scales, has a gold plated Interservice logo, was presented in a wooden box with the inscription Koninklijke Landmacht (Royal Army) / Landmachtstaf (Army staff).
The knife was only given on special occasions such as retirement.
Amefa 1963
Also my Air Force knife came in: an oldie from 1963 – so, an Amefa knife.
The owner was a member of the LBK – Luchtmacht BewakingsKorps (Air Force Guard Corps).
Post by: Wspeed on April 19, 2020, 02:05:24 PM
Post by: Myron on April 20, 2020, 12:21:02 AM
Myron
Post by: EMZ on April 24, 2020, 10:31:16 PM
I have no idea which technique has been used for the engraving.
Post by: Wspeed on April 24, 2020, 10:34:27 PM
about the previous owner EMZ :like: :tu:
Post by: Myron on April 24, 2020, 10:43:32 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on May 08, 2020, 11:51:35 AM
Last week I received a "new" knife that I had been looking for years: KLU64.
It is a knife that raises questions: KLU indicates the Royal Netherlands Air Force and 64 the year 1964. Furthermore, there is no marking on - no name.
(This happened more often: the knife of the KMC (Corps Mobile Colonnes) - with green handle. No name but supposed to be made by Amefa).
The KLU has the same configuration as the other Amefa knives from that period, only the colour of the handle is slightly different. If a knife resembles other Amefa knives, it will probably be an Amefa knife. In addition, Defence had a contract with Amefa in the 1950s and only these knives were issued.
Therefore, I assume that it is an Amefa knife.
However, the text "KLU64" is vertically on the grip as is the case with the "army variants". Moreover, Amefa (as far as I know) did not produce knives for the Dutch Defence in 1965.
Therefore, I assume that it is not an Amefa knife.
In short, I don't know - who can tell anything meaningful about it, then I'd like to hear it.
Apart from this I am very happy with this knife: I now have the KLU63, KLU64, KLU65 and the Klu74.
Post by: Wspeed on May 08, 2020, 02:09:10 PM
Post by: Myron on May 08, 2020, 02:55:25 PM
I always like it when I can add a DAK to my small collection, and your posts have helped me more than once.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Guardian on May 08, 2020, 03:06:43 PM
Very nice set Agamemnon. I always learn so much from your posts.
I always like it when I can add a DAK to my small collection, and your posts have helped me more than once.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:iagree:
and EMZ too :cheers:
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 12, 2020, 08:33:20 PM
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/9dtxli2ebx3cfzm/IMG_1070.jpg?raw=1)
There’ve been a couple of previous opportunities in the past years but I got outbid or the seller just asked a very steep price. This time I was lucky enough to deal with a seller that wanted this knife to get a good new home because it used to be his personal knife when he was in service in the 11 Air Assault Brigade. I offered him a fair price and the knife is now mine!
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/j670j6vnw78sase/2020-05-12%2014.57.02.jpg?raw=1)
Post by: Myron on May 12, 2020, 08:35:48 PM
Post by: EMZ on May 12, 2020, 09:07:10 PM
Today I finally managed to acquire a DAK that i’ve been looking for for a long time: the Dutch Army 11 Air Assault Brigade.
Aha! So YOU are the one that beat on that SwissTool! Dang... :-\
But I'm glad it stayed 'home'.
Congratulations!
To comfort myself a little bit I bought the other DAK this guy was offering: A CRKT Thunderbolt 2 with logo of the Dutch Army 11 LMB (Air Mobile Brigade). Used in 2008 in Afghanistan.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 13, 2020, 09:10:34 AM
Aha! So YOU are the one that beat on that SwissTool! Dang... :-\
But I'm glad it stayed 'home'.
Congratulations!
To comfort myself a little bit I bought the other DAK this guy was offering: A CRKT Thunderbolt 2 with logo of the Dutch Army 11 LMB (Air Mobile Brigade). Used in 2008 in Afghanistan.
Thanks, and sorry (sort of :D) for snatching this one!
That CRKT also looks great! :salute:
Post by: Tet on May 13, 2020, 03:53:49 PM
Post by: SirVicaLot on May 13, 2020, 04:05:12 PM
Today I finally managed to acquire a DAK that i’ve been looking for for a long time: the Dutch Army 11 Air Assault Brigade.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/9dtxli2ebx3cfzm/IMG_1070.jpg?raw=1)
There’ve been a couple of previous opportunities in the past years but I got outbid or the seller just asked a very steep price. This time I was lucky enough to deal with a seller that wanted this knife to get a good new home because it used to be his personal knife when he was in service in the 11 Air Assault Brigade. I offered him a fair price and the knife is now mine!
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/j670j6vnw78sase/2020-05-12%2014.57.02.jpg?raw=1)
Cool display and collection! :like:
Post by: Agamemnon on May 31, 2020, 12:53:11 PM
Every year (except for this year - Covid 19) there is a National Veterans Day over here in the Netherlands. I always go here to see my old B.I.A.
Because I want to make my collection of DAKs "complete" I make an overview of (as far as I know) the knives I still miss. The knives of the Royal Netherlands Air Force are now on this list.
Where can you better be than with the old users of these knives: Air Force guys. So, during lunch I went to their "tent" and hung in strategic places the overview and spoke with various (old) Air Force men.
A few weeks ago, an Air Force officer comes to my house asking if I was still looking for the KLU knives. Of course, I look for it and then he takes a blue Victorinox alox Master Craftsman (3rd model) out of his pocket and asks if I want it. He did indicate that the tweezers were missing. I notice then laughing that the value then becomes "less". After some back and forth the deal is closed on 3 pints (Heineken). A deal we are both happy with. :cheers: :cheers:
Post by: Wspeed on May 31, 2020, 02:00:23 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 31, 2020, 02:06:44 PM
:hatsoff:
Every year (except for this year - Covid 19) there is a National Veterans Day over here in the Netherlands. I always go here to see my old B.I.A.
Because I want to make my collection of DAKs "complete" I make an overview of (as far as I know) the knives I still miss. The knives of the Royal Netherlands Air Force are now on this list.
Where can you better be than with the old users of these knives: Air Force guys. So, during lunch I went to their "tent" and hung in strategic places the overview and spoke with various (old) Air Force men.
A few weeks ago, an Air Force officer comes to my house asking if I was still looking for the KLU knives. Of course, I look for it and then he takes a blue Victorinox alox Master Craftsman (3rd model) out of his pocket and asks if I want it. He did indicate that the tweezers were missing. I notice then laughing that the value then becomes "less". After some back and forth the deal is closed on 3 pints (Heineken). A deal we are both happy with. :cheers: :cheers:
Are you kidding me? You are sooo lucky! :o :ahhh
Congrats on this amazing find!
Post by: Myron on May 31, 2020, 04:20:44 PM
Post by: Reinier on June 01, 2020, 10:47:04 PM
That's the deal of the century :)
Congrats!
Post by: Agamemnon on June 14, 2020, 11:45:27 AM
As you know, this year I have the pocket knives of the Dutch Air Force on my list.
And this is what happens when you tap the right source: a big extension of my air force knives.
The knives come from the original owner and all have their own story.
In addition, 2 camo army knives also arrived.
My weekend can't go wrong.
Post by: Reinier on June 14, 2020, 01:03:57 PM
I think I saw one listed on eBay for a quazillion dollars.
Post by: EMZ on June 14, 2020, 01:18:12 PM
That alox Master Craftsman :dd:
I think I saw one listed on eBay for a quazillion dollars.
Back in 1978 I served a few month on RNLAF base Gilze-Rijen, the place where the survival training section of Dutch pilots still is based. One day I carried a full box with DOZENS of these knives to a storage building! I should have run away with it, hide a few decades, and by now I could have been a millionaire.
:facepalm:
BTW: Beautiful collection of RNLAF knives and multi-tools!
Post by: Agamemnon on June 14, 2020, 01:33:26 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on June 14, 2020, 05:20:28 PM
Back in 1978 I served a few month on RNLAF base Gilze-Rijen, the place where the survival training section of Dutch pilots still is based. One day I carried a full box with DOZENS of these knives to a storage building! I should have run away with it, hide a few decades, and by now I could have been a millionaire.
:facepalm:
BTW: Beautiful collection of RNLAF knives and multi-tools!
And the story continues:
After you delivered these knives, they were all destroyed (by driving over them with a roller and then "buried" under a layer of cement).
So they are now an integral part of the base Gilze-Rijen (according to an eyewitness). :ahhh :ahhh
Post by: Reinier on June 14, 2020, 08:09:00 PM
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/gd09Y2Ptu7gsiPVUrv/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952a51b8a16832e213e6b5927a15cf0f986b8f77e8d&rid=giphy.gif)
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/s239QJIh56sRW/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952a51b8a16832e213e6b5927a15cf0f986b8f77e8d&rid=giphy.gif)
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/l2JhtKtDWYNKdRpoA/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b952a51b8a16832e213e6b5927a15cf0f986b8f77e8d&rid=giphy.gif)
Post by: Reinier on June 14, 2020, 08:09:43 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on June 15, 2020, 11:08:45 AM
Also: why?
:dunno:
I think it is their nature
And shortly after these knives were destroyed, there was a shortage of these knives. :oops: An order was placed at Victorinox for knives with the more scratch-resistant blue “Cellidor” plates.
Another example:
The successor to the storm dagger.
Imported in the 1960s for the Marine Corps and made in America.
This dagger is the unique successor of the famous Dutch Hembrug M1917 storm dagger (1917 - 1942). It was a Dutch sidearm from 1960 till about 1995.
It is a conversion based on the American M4 carbine bayonet, with American handle made of composite leather rings, modified aluminum hilt knob and slim Dutch guard; in addition, an American or German plastic sheath model US M8A1, with webbing carrier and mostly metal tip reinforcement of NAVIMETAAL.
It was provided as a personal sidearm (storm dagger / fighting knife) for the non-rifle bearers (men and officers) who did not have a bayonet in the equipment.
Has been used by the Royal Netherlands Navy resp. the Marine Corps, and outside the Netherlands, including New Guinea (1961 - 1962).
Conversion, assembly and finishing were done at the "Small Arms" department of the Marine Bewapeningswerkplaats (Marine Armament Workshop) in Den Helder.
There was only a limited edition (approx. 5,000 pieces), after putting out of commission it was destroyed around 1997 at SEWACO (was Bewapeningswerkplaats) in Den Helder. :woohoo:
Post by: EMZ on July 04, 2020, 11:41:11 AM
This one was being offered for sale on the internet, but at the time I showed interest it was already sold.
Sorry for the bad quality of the picture. I 'stole' it from the advertisement.
Post by: EMZ on July 04, 2020, 11:55:17 AM
This knife belonged to a colonel of the Dutch Army. The front has the service number of the colonel engraved (and painted black), the back has his name (I subdued his full name).
Supposedly this was a representation gift.
The blade stamp is a very early type.
Post by: Agamemnon on August 01, 2020, 12:09:36 PM
And now something completely different: the (not really a) Dutch Army Knife
During and in the first years after World War II, there was a shortage of everything in the Netherlands, including the equipment of the Dutch soldier.
For that reason, the "War Department" (Ministerie van Oorlog) authorized the use of equipment from the Canadian military e.g. Model X-611, Canadian Utility Knife (the Canadian called this knife: C5) and the P 6365/1905; and the British Jack knife / Clasp knife.
In these years there were also problems in the Dutch East Indies and Dutch soldiers were sent to the Indies to put things in order. The soldiers who went there were equipped with British and Canadian pocket knives.
I got some of these knives (see pictures) from these veterans (along with their stories).
In addition, there was also the Korean War (1950-1954).
On June 25, 1950, Korean Time (June 24, American Time), North Korean troops invaded South Korea. The United Nations Security Council passed a resolution on June 26, which marked this invasion as a peace-break and called for immediate cessation of hostilities. In a resolution of 27 June, the Council called on members of the United Nations to assist the Republic of Korea to countering the attack by North Korean forces and contributing to the recovery of order and safety in the area concerned.
Dutch United Nations Detachment in Korea. (NDVN)
The Netherlands United Nations Detachment in Korea (Van Heutsz Battalion) was established in 1950 as part of the United Nations Armed Forces. The NDVN was assigned to the American infantry. (38th Reg. 2nd 'Indianhead' Inf. Div. - 8th Army).
The Dutch soldiers were equipped with an English clasp knife, nicknamed the 'Churchill' (see pictures). I got this knife and his story from a ‘Korea-ganger’ (a soldier who went to Korea).
And now the connection to the "real" Dutch Army Knives. The army switched to the well-known Amefa pocket knives, while the navy remained "loyal" to the navy knife, especially because this knife was equipped with a "marlin spike"; tools that were standard on board of (sailing) ships.
From about 1965 the Royal Navy used the knife from the firm Adler. I got this knife from a former Marine and used this knife in the period 1993-2000.
This knife is my latest acquisition.
Post by: Agamemnon on August 01, 2020, 12:11:37 PM
Post by: Wspeed on August 01, 2020, 02:36:55 PM
Post by: Guardian on August 01, 2020, 05:58:24 PM
Post by: EMZ on September 10, 2020, 04:25:26 PM
Unfortunately the seller had removed the sticker on the box which indicates it's Army issue.
The user's manual ('gebruikershandleiding') is in Dutch, dated 2018.
The handles have the Vic shield logo above the Victorinox stamping. Pliers without cross.
Note the black 'flat felled seam' of the flap piece. Normally this seam is dark brown or grey.
Post by: EMZ on October 08, 2020, 05:00:07 PM
This is the black leather pouch WITH Dutch defence Interservice logo for the SwissTool.
Unfortunately the toll was not included and I don't know for which Victorinox multi-tool exactly it was ment for. I know EOD had the standard version of the SwissTool, but I don;t know the exact type/model.
Post by: EMZ on October 09, 2020, 02:45:27 PM
Unknown manufacturier (probably Chinese).
Post by: EMZ on October 09, 2020, 02:57:57 PM
Blade stamp is "Adola roestvry" ('rust free'). I date this knife around 1950-1960, but that's just a wild guess.
The Adola company was founded in 1930 by a Dutchman named Adolf Keizer. The company started with selling luxury pocket knives, scissors and bakelite flashlights. Nowadays it is a wholesale company (importer of Leatherman and others).
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on October 09, 2020, 08:07:09 PM
It took me a while, but finally I found one!
This is the black leather pouch WITH Dutch defence Interservice logo for the SwissTool.
Unfortunately the toll was not included and I don't know for which Victorinox multi-tool exactly it was ment for. I know EOD had the standard version of the SwissTool, but I don;t know the exact type/model.
That’s awesome, never knew it existed! Would love to find one :cheers:
Post by: Agamemnon on October 24, 2020, 05:04:20 PM
As you all know, we use the Victorinox Spirit BS Multi-tool in the Netherlands. Very satisfactory and we like this tool. Unless you are very thirsty. (the explanation follows).
Today I received my new Spirit BS and immediately "converted" it into a Multi-multi-tool by adding a corkscrew. It is now possible to open a bottle of wine. The problem of severe thirst has now been solved.
The corkscrew is slid into the slot and can also be removed immediately. So, no "fixed" adjustment.
Cheers. :cheers:
Post by: Agamemnon on November 06, 2020, 04:55:08 PM
My latest acquisition arrived today: a multi-tool of the 1 Division '7 December'. A division with a special place in my heart.
I now have 4 of these multi-tools, but I know there are more. The search continues.
And, as always, first the story and then the photos.
The First Division 7 December (Dutch: Eerste Divisie "7 December") was a division of the Royal Netherlands Army, active from at least 1946 to 2004. It was sent to Indonesia in 1946 to restore "peace, order and security" after the proclamation of Indonesian Independence in 1945.
The division was named after the speech of Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands in London on 7 December 1942
The base of the “First Division 7 December” was in England, where, from August 6, 1945, Dutch troops were trained in the Mary Hill Barracks at 9 Primary Center in Glasgow and assigned to the "Expeditionary Force".
During the Second World War, the emblem of the first division was designed for the expeditionary force to be set up after the liberation of the Netherlands for the fight against Japan.
The emblem consists of the coat of arms of Batavia, being the capital of the Dutch East Indies. An upright sword with laurel wreath and the letters E M of Expeditionaire Macht. This abbreviation later became symbolic of the term Every Man, Every Moment.
In the Dutch East Indies, the "Eerste Divisie 7 December" on West Java began its arduous task. It was known here under the name "C-Division 7 December", with the area between Batavia and Buitenzorg as the area of operations.
On January 1, 2004, 1 Division '7 December' was disbanded but the name lives on in the 11 LMB AASLT "7 December". (11 Air Assault Brigade)
Post by: Frailer on November 06, 2020, 08:04:43 PM
As a veteran of the US Army's 1st Division (AKA "The Big Red One"--whose patch is my avatar), I found the history particularly enjoyable.
Post by: Mechanickal on November 06, 2020, 08:25:13 PM
Excellent story!
As a veteran of the US Army's 1st Division (AKA "The Big Red One"--whose patch is my avatar), I found the history particularly enjoyable.
I have a poster up in my office including a patch in honor of their actions on D-Day...
Post by: Agamemnon on November 07, 2020, 10:55:25 AM
Excellent story!
As a veteran of the US Army's 1st Division (AKA "The Big Red One"--whose patch is my avatar), I found the history particularly enjoyable.
:hatsoff:
Semper Fi BRO
Post by: Frailer on November 07, 2020, 03:42:35 PM
:hatsoff:
Semper Fi BRO
:salute:
Post by: EMZ on November 10, 2020, 06:40:17 PM
Ik like all the different logo's.
Post by: EMZ on November 10, 2020, 06:43:53 PM
I don’t think nobody would. However… I did!
Not because of the knife itself, but because of the package it was packed in: A sturdy 2-part aluminium tin, with lots of survival item!
The aide memoire (printed on waterproof paper) was already in my collection, so I had to buy this set when the opportunity came.
This DAK Small Tinker is official part of the Dutch Army “Survival Kit, Uitgebreid”, or in correct English: “Survival Kit, Extensive”. The kit even has its own NSN: 8465-17-124-7315.
The aluminium case measures 14 x 10 x 4 cm The aluminium is about 1,4 mm thick. Probably it is not commercially available. The two parts are held together with an elastci rubber band.
The kit is issued to special forces like the Dutch “Korps Commando Troepen”.
The kit is dated in 2015.
Very rare in this complete and almost unused condition.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on November 10, 2020, 07:09:12 PM
Post by: EMZ on November 10, 2020, 08:27:14 PM
Post by: Max Stone on November 10, 2020, 09:37:09 PM
...and added to Tinker Small Wiki with a couple of your images, if you're OK with that? :salute:
Post by: EMZ on November 10, 2020, 10:11:55 PM
Great find EMZ :like:
...and added to Tinker Small Wiki with a couple of your images, if you're OK with that? :salute:
Yes, of course it's okay to use my images!
Post by: Max Stone on November 10, 2020, 10:33:32 PM
BTW, I think I missed the sewing needle in the inventory list :D
Post by: EMZ on November 11, 2020, 12:33:31 AM
:hatsoff:
BTW, I think I missed the sewing needle in the inventory list :D
Good idea to list the contents!
Contents:
1 Pocket Knife
1 Fishing Kit
1 Flashlight
1 Compass
1 Rope
1 Fire Steel
1 Whistle
1 Matches
1 Copper Wire
1 Candle
20 Water Purifying Tablets
1 Condom
4 Safety Pins
1 Small Bandage
1 Small Gauze
1 Scalpel Blade
2 Sachet ORS
1 Needle
3 Tie-wrap
1 Mirror
1 Rubber Band
And of course the box plus lid.
Post by: Myron on November 11, 2020, 01:44:22 AM
Post by: Max Stone on November 11, 2020, 06:01:16 AM
I think we miss a lot of good information that is shared on the forum that could go to the Wiki, so I’m happy to do my little bit to help. :salute:
Of course, the wide rubber band does not just keep the box closed, it can be used as a tourniquet or a catapult. And the aluminum box itself can be used to boil water or heat food. There was real thought that went into this kit. A great find EMZ. :cheers:
Post by: Guardian on November 11, 2020, 08:25:14 PM
Post by: EMZ on November 11, 2020, 11:39:43 PM
Lekker! :gimme:
Well... I know what you trying to say with 'lekker', however the Dutch expression 'lekker' is in fact always used to address that something tastes very good. For example food, drinks, and in a rude way for a fine looking woman. It's informal language, to be used amongst friends, not for official occasions, or during the X-mas dinner with your snobby parents-in-law.
Someone might say in a positive way "Ja, lekker!" when he expresses that for example a pastry tastes very good. But he can also say it with a very negative tone, and then it means "it sucks!".
Anyhow, thanks for the compliment!! :tu:
Post by: Frailer on November 12, 2020, 02:46:07 AM
Post by: Storm on November 12, 2020, 03:11:46 AM
And thanks max for sharing the good news to the wiki so that all might want one now :D
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on November 12, 2020, 07:36:24 AM
Post by: Reinier on November 12, 2020, 08:17:32 AM
I thought I was lucky to find one for sale, but it turned out it was the ad of the guy that sold it to EMZ, he forgot to take the ad down :facepalm:
Lekker dan :cry:
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on November 12, 2020, 08:20:01 AM
Lekker dan :cry:
Yeah. The reply I got from the seller was "Sorry, I forgot to take the ad down, thanks for reminding me!".
Very funny :facepalm:
Post by: Reinier on November 12, 2020, 08:26:42 AM
And I took the opportunity to demonstrate another use of the word lekker ;)
Never seen one of those kits before. Nice find EMZ.
Post by: Max Stone on November 12, 2020, 10:04:33 AM
Maar dis lekker = But it's nice
https://youtu.be/3zbW4SoHLNw?list=OLAK5uy_nkE_dt0XoWAcGKlZCpipLEyaRDBBU9pNM (https://youtu.be/3zbW4SoHLNw?list=OLAK5uy_nkE_dt0XoWAcGKlZCpipLEyaRDBBU9pNM)
Post by: Guardian on November 12, 2020, 07:53:36 PM
Well... I know what you trying to say with 'lekker', however the Dutch expression 'lekker' is in fact always used to address that something tastes very good. For example food, drinks, and in a rude way for a fine looking woman. It's informal language, to be used amongst friends, not for official occasions, or during the X-mas dinner with your snobby parents-in-law.
Someone might say in a positive way "Ja, lekker!" when he expresses that for example a pastry tastes very good. But he can also say it with a very negative tone, and then it means "it sucks!".
Anyhow, thanks for the compliment!! :tu:
Oh......thanks EMZ :cheers: I thought lekker could be used on anything that looked great and not just food; kind of a ‘slang’ word. So I better not say it to any Dutch women then or they may think I’m comparing them to a Big Mac or a food item :facepalm:
Post by: Guardian on November 13, 2020, 08:50:13 AM
Oh......thanks EMZ :cheers: I thought lekker could be used on anything that looked great and not just food; kind of a ‘slang’ word. So I better not say it to any Dutch women then or they may think I’m comparing them to a Big Mac or a food item :facepalm:
Of course, I blame Noraly from YouTube, who produces stuff under the name Itchy Boots. She does stuff on motor bikes and her international travels and was filming in the north of the Netherlands. It was at a motorcycle track and I thought she was describing a motorcycle as lekker, since the food being consumed by the people there didn’t look particularly great!! :D
Anyhoo, if you like motorcycles she is great to watch. I hate them myself but still love watching her :ahhh
Post by: Reinier on November 13, 2020, 09:02:04 AM
It's also lekker to have a day off work :P
Post by: Guardian on November 13, 2020, 11:11:43 AM
Lekler can be used in several ways. Calling a man or woman lekker is not exaclty nice. A sofa can be lekker as well, in that case it means comfortable. A motorcycle can ride lekker I guess.
It's also lekker to have a day off work :P
Can’t beat a day off work! :woohoo:
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on November 13, 2020, 06:24:04 PM
Post by: Reinier on November 13, 2020, 06:29:49 PM
Yes you can, Guardian - 2 days off work! I’ll get my coat.....
Or more!
Actually, I have five days off starting yesterday :)
I'll get my coat as well :cheers:
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on November 13, 2020, 06:31:32 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on November 14, 2020, 11:41:04 AM
Well done EMZ (with 'some' jealousy in my voice).
I only got the knife with a KCT emblem. So now I know what to look for further.
Keep up the good work and have a nice weekend
Post by: EMZ on November 15, 2020, 06:37:09 PM
What a beautiful patch. Never ever seen before!
Post by: Agamemnon on November 19, 2020, 01:32:04 PM
I was looking for more information on my Dutch army knives so I flipped through the pages on this forum.
So I came across information by Cyclone82, Gareth & Duder about the OH Parachutist from Victorinox.
I have all three models:
Zwanenburg (2 variants). The difference is in the weight.
• Model 2006 - Zwanenburg; 1st version - Normal liners - weight: 158 grams
• Model 2006 - Zwanenburg; 2nd version - Wide liners - weight: 182 grams.
Victorinox:
• Model 2010 (DAK2010)
• OH Parachutist
Both the Zwanenburg and the DAK 2010 have the same NSN (NSN 5110-17-106-2332).
I have asked my old army buddies (DMO – Dienst Materieel Organisatie) for further information:
At some point it was decided that the 1st Interservice model of Victorinox Model 1992 (DAK1993) had to be replaced by a model with 3 layers (NSN 5110-17-106-2332). (This was also the case in Germany). Germany preferred the Victorinox 111 OH GAK (with a wood saw instead of a belt cutter and an oval opening), the Netherlands chose the Zwanenburg.
Germany continued with the 1st model 111 OH GAK (GAK3) despite the criticism of the oval opening. In 2007, the 2nd model 111 OH GAK (GAK4) was put into use, with a round opening that made it easier to open the knife with one hand.
The Netherlands did not need a wood saw, but preferred a belt cutter like at the Zwanenburg. Victorinox's OH-Parachutist came into the picture. There was a test model, with the famous green scales and Interservice logo, but without scale tools (no need for) to replace the "Zwanenburg".
For some reason (no longer traceable) the test of this model was not continued, so it has not been in use. Finally in 2010 it was decided to continue with Model 2010 (DAK 2010) which is still in use today.
My brothers-in-arms said that they had heard about the OH Parachutist, but that they never saw it. Has never been issued.
Their advice was therefore to be very careful with it.
Post by: Agamemnon on November 19, 2020, 01:33:04 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on December 04, 2020, 03:55:11 PM
How a Canadian C5 utility knife turned into DAK.
After WW II, there was a shortage of everything in the Netherlands. By order of the Ministry of War (MvO), numerous pieces of equipment and weapons of the Allies (including Canadians) were reused by the Dutch army. One such piece of equipment was the Canadian Utility knife. Unlike the American version, the Canadian knives do not mention any country or part. The knife is called C5 in Canada.
In the period after World War II there was “something going on” (Bersiap period) in the Dutch East Indies that needed to be done. We, the Dutch called it “Politionele Acties” (Police Actions).
And so we went/had to go to Indonesia – these were called the ‘Indonesië-gangers”.
Recently two of my veteran friends passed away. They were 95 and 97 years old. I got their pocket knives from their widows.
Both knives were issued to the "D Division" - "Palm Tree"
One knife (the top one) is made by Imperial (nothing on the scales or on the bail). The knife was used by 2-4 Battalion Guards Regiment Princess Irene. This battalion was made up of conscripts from the '46 class. Left for Semarang o/b Ms Tabitha on June 4, 1947 and repatriated on March 3, 1950 o/b MS Georgic.
We had to leave 43 men behind.
The other knife (bottom) has no name or other abbreviations or the blade or on the bail, or on the scales. It is therefore not known who the maker is. The knife has been used by 4-4 Battalion Guards Regiment Grenadiers. This battalion was made up of conscripts from the '46 class. Left o/b/ "Kota Inten" to Surabya on May 28, 1947 and repatriated o/b “Kota Inten” on February 16, 1950.
We had to leave 32 men here.
The background of the users is therefore known. I don't know anything about the knives themselves.
If anyone can say something about these knives, please let me know.
Finally, a few images of the American cousins: the MIL-K (which I also have in my collection).
Post by: Agamemnon on December 04, 2020, 03:55:49 PM
Post by: 39hotrod on December 04, 2020, 03:57:41 PM
Post by: Myron on December 05, 2020, 04:59:43 AM
Myron
(https://i.imgur.com/ZsovSo0.jpg)
Post by: Agamemnon on December 05, 2020, 12:34:42 PM
Very interesting, Agamemnon! I have a Kingston USMC from 1945, which I believe is the same knife. They are beautifully made.
Myron
(https://i.imgur.com/ZsovSo0.jpg)
:hatsoff:
Hi Myron,
Thanks for your answer, but I think your knife is a bit older than mine. I think you have the 1st version of the MIL-K-818; the MIL-K-818-A. I base this on the position of the can opener and the bottle opener.
The first knives were developed for the USMC. These models had the screwdriver and knife on one side, the can opener and awl on the other side. This was an explicit requirement of the "Marine Corps"
This was also the case with the first test models of the "Army". The Army Infantry Board tested the blades again and felt that the parts should be "different".
The 1945 Army model has the screwdriver / opener and awl on the left and the can opener and knife on the right. The first "Army" test knives, like the USMC knives, had a steel blade with a "Monel" handle. For the first test in 1944, it was advised that the blades should be stainless. The handles were replaced by stainless steel handles, as were the springs. In 1945 the "Army Infantry Board" approved the knives with the stainless steel parts.
The "Army" changed the position of the can opener to make it easier to open the square cans. The "Marines" didn't care because they already had a large stock anyway.
This "phenomenon" of relocating these tools can be seen in more countries, including the Netherlands.
We have the "brown" Amefa knives (with a fiber handle) from their early period (pre 1950) where in the 1st version the knife and the bottle opener are on one side and the can opener is the awl on the other. In the 2nd version, the can opener and bottle opener have also been swapped here.
Post by: Myron on December 05, 2020, 04:17:05 PM
But there is something very special about the Kingston MIL-K-818. The brass liners on mine are beautiful.
Myron
Post by: Agamemnon on December 06, 2020, 11:21:36 AM
Thanks Agamemnon. Yes, I knew they switched around the orientation shortly after producing the knife. And then there was the long dry spell until the Camillus 1760 appeared. I have a few of those in my collection as well.
But there is something very special about the Kingston MIL-K-818. The brass liners on mine are beautiful.
Myron
:hatsoff: :like:
Post by: EMZ on December 11, 2020, 05:42:23 PM
I don't buy anymore from Ebay. Postage & Handling plus the fees for the Bay and Paypal are too high.
For lovers of the Holy Grail of DAK's I found this ad on Ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/HOLY-GRAIL-Victorinox-Master-Craftsman-Blue-Smooth-Alox-Swiss-Army-Knife-KLU-KM/193462422864?hash=item2d0b424d50:g:7koAAOSwobFeuvfI
Is it too expensive? Well, for me it is, but maybe someone will buy.
Please be sure, I am NOT the seller of this pocket knife!! And I have no interest in selling, nor buying it.
All I can say, I recently bought a knife from this seller and it was a positive experiences.
Just wanted you to know.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on December 11, 2020, 07:14:10 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on December 25, 2020, 12:08:39 PM
Is it a Dutch Army knife (or is it British or Canadian or Belgian or French or maybe German)?
It is a knife of the Royal Navy, the so-called boatswain's knife. It is a three-part knife, stainless steel with a black ribbed Bexoid body. Folding knife, can opener and marlin spike. Metal bail. Length 17.3 cm.
It is a "derivative" of the Allied "Clasp knife" (naval variant) and was used by many countries after the war. Was made for the Netherlands in England during the Korean War and was called the “Churchill”. The NDVN (Dutch Detachment United Nations), part of the Regiment Van Heutsz of the Royal Netherlands Army and therefore also called the Van Heutsz Battalion, remained detached to the 38th Reg. 2nd Inf. Div. ‘Indianhead’ - 8th Army Corps in Korea for almost the entire time.
In addition to these "new" knives, the English "Broad Arrow" knives were also used with the approval of MvO (Ministry of War) in Dutch New Guinea (1961 - 1963).
From around 1965, the Royal Marine Corps had the knife of the Adler company in use. The knife was in use by the Marine Corps in the period 1993-2000.
So far the Dutch Army Knives.
The English ancestors:
This model knife was the standard British Army knife and was issued from the late 1930s to the early 1950s. In addition to the knife and the can opener, the knives had a marlin spike (Navy; they were very fond of the marlin spike and wanted to keep it). The black handles are made of Bexoid.
The Belgium cousins: ABL knives
These knives look exactly like the British models and were issued to the Belgian army after the second war. The knife, marked ABL CC 0530, is made in Great Britain (Sheffield) under license from the Belgian army (CC code). This knife has the same larger can opener as the English models. All these knives were made in the period of the Korea war (1950 - 1953); Belgium also had a detachment in Korea.
One model is only marked with ABL (comparable to the Dutch KL) without further additions. They all have a marlin spike and bear the letters ABL (a mixed language abbreviation of Armée Belge and Belgisch Leger), the manufacturer / supplier (Colasse, Libert & Colin Winand) and the year of issue (1950, 1951 or 1952). I also have one dated 1966, the youngest one I’ve seen so far.
The knives used by the Air Force have a stylized "pine tree" on the can opener. This pine tree can occur in various places and in various shapes.
The Belgian navy knives are marked with an anchor and the letter ZM-FN (ZeeMacht - Force Naval) and were made in Solingen (Friedrichswerk).
All the handles are made of Bexoid.
Post by: Agamemnon on December 25, 2020, 12:10:23 PM
Post by: Mechanickal on December 25, 2020, 03:09:19 PM
The springs are super tough,
The handles feel crude,
The overall feel isn't pleasant.
I'm a bit disappointed to see the Belgian Army never invested in some decent pocket knives.
Post by: Agamemnon on December 25, 2020, 04:58:54 PM
I have a 1952 Colasse only because I'm Belgian.
The springs are super tough,
The handles feel crude,
The overall feel isn't pleasant.
I'm a bit disappointed to see the Belgian Army never invested in some decent pocket knives.
:hatsoff:
Indeed Mechanickal, the springs are extremely strong, even after all these years.
The only difference with “the old” Belgian knives and “the new” is the size, as you see it in more countries.
My old Belgian navy knife (but with a nicer anchor) with screwdriver and marlin spike. (see picture)
Post by: EMZ on December 27, 2020, 12:49:14 PM
And thanks to Agamemnon, who was so kind to inform me that this knife was offered on Ebay, I now also have the experimental DAK Parachutist. :D
See pic's.
Post by: Agamemnon on December 28, 2020, 11:27:49 AM
Great collection of Belgian knives, Agamemnon!
And thanks to Agamemnon, who was so kind to inform me that this knife was offered on Ebay, I now also have the experimental DAK Parachutist. :D
See pic's.
:hatsoff:
Thank EMZ.
It goes without saying that when I know that someone is looking for something, I 'give a signal' (if possible).
Post by: Myron on December 28, 2020, 03:50:03 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on December 29, 2020, 11:58:37 AM
At a certain point it was decided that the 1st Interservice model of Victorinox Model 1992 (DAK1993) had to be replaced by a model with 3 layers (NSN 5110-17-106-2332).
The Netherlands opted for the Zwanenburg (Model 2006). It turned out that this was not a good choice. After a short period of time, in an effort to provide a better knife, version 1 was replaced with version 2 - a slightly heavier (25 grams) knife with wider liners.(2008). This also proved unsuccessful. The Zwanenburg "served" in the period 2005/6 - 2008/9.
Victorinox's OH-Parachutist came into the picture.
The Netherlands did not need a wood saw, but preferred a belt cutter like at the Zwanenburg. A test model was introduced, with the famous green scales and Interservice logo, but without scale tools to replace the "Zwanenburg".
For some reason (no longer traceable) the test of this model was not continued, so it was not in use.
There are only a few of these knives in 'circulation'.
Finally in 2010 it was decided to continue with Model 2010 (DAK 2010), which is still in use today.
Post by: Myron on December 29, 2020, 03:34:48 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on December 31, 2020, 11:37:05 AM
Today I want to show you my German army knives (111 GAK) tell you something about it. In particular the similarities (and differences) between the German and the Dutch army knives.
The differences: we have the “Interservice logo” and a belt cutter. The Germans have the “Bundesadler” (Pleitegeier) and a wood saw.
Due to cutbacks in defence spending in the Netherlands and Germany, as a result of which the Netherlands could not keep the 1st Army Corps up to strength and Germany could not raise a full third Army Corps, both countries decided to set up a joint German-Dutch Army Corps, 1 (GE/NL) Corps (30/8/1995). The First German-Dutch Army Corps is a NATO defence unit, consisting of German and Dutch army units. Its headquarters are located in the German city of Münster.
The result is that German and Dutch soldiers work together, but they do have different pocket knives. I was able to swap many knives with the help of my army friends.
Even when Dutch soldiers are on a mission, they have a "special" mission: trying to exchange pocket knives.
When we were using the DAK93 in the Netherlands, the German army had "Modell 2000", made by the Mil-Tec company, as a replacement for the 108 GAK. (I'll tell more about the 108 GAK next time and show my collection.)
At one point it was decided that "Modell 2000" should be replaced by a new model. Germany preferred the Victorinox 111 OH GAK, the Netherlands opted for the Zwanenburg (Model 2006).
Just like in the Netherlands, the GAK was also not available in Germany at one point. As an interim solution, the civilian Forester (with corkscrew instead of screwdriver and saw and with green scales) was provided. With DE-GM 9305297 (so before 2006).
Germany continued with the 1st model 111 OH GAK despite the criticism of the oval opening. In 2007, the 2nd model 111 OH GAK was put into use, with a round opening that made it easier to open the knife with one hand.
In 2003 the 108 GAK (108 GAK) nicknamed “BW-Stumpf” was permanently replaced by the 111 OH GAK.
In addition to these knives, Germany also uses the “Rucksack”. These are in used by GSG9 and BGS - Fliegergruppe.
Post by: Myron on December 31, 2020, 02:10:56 PM
Post by: EMZ on December 31, 2020, 04:06:59 PM
I just wondered... Has the Austrian Army pocket knives and/or multi-tools?
Post by: Agamemnon on January 01, 2021, 03:07:13 PM
@ EMZ: I've never seen an Austian army knife, so I don't know. Sorry.
In 1976 the German Bundeswehr introduced a large, light and robust green pocket knife of the Victorinox brand as Combi Taschenmesser (108 GAK), nicknamed BW-Stumpf, and remained in use until 2003. It was replaced by the 111 OH GAK (Trekker). Victorinox made the knife from 1976 to 1986.
From 1986 to 1997, Victorinox supplied the parts to Adler Messer GmbH. The knife was made on behalf of and according to the specifications of the German army. It was the first knife with nylon handles instead of fibre or Cellidor.
Two 'generations' can be distinguished from the 108 GAK Victorinox:
1st generation: This generation (before 1985) did not have a nail file.
2nd generation: with nail file (from 1985).
Moreover, with 108 GAK there are 4 variations in the stamping on the ricasso.
108 GAK - variant # 1. All letters the same size - 2 lines: VICTORINOX / ROSTFREI
108 GAK - Variant # 2. All letters the same size - 3 lines: VICTORINOX / SWISS MADE / STAINLESS
108 GAK - variant # 3 - All letters the same size - 4 lines: VICTORINOX / SWITZERLAND / STAINLESS / ROSTFREI
108 GAK-2 - Victorinox (1985-1986)
This GAK-2 (1985) has a modified saw / opener with a strip on the blade that serves as a nail file and to strike a match. The stamping - variant # 4 - capital letter "V": Victorinox / switzerland / stainless / rostfrei. This is the last 108 GAK released by Victorinox.
Besides Victorinox there are also other producers who made this Bundeswehrmesser. (e.g. Adler, CCM, Robt. Klass, B&H, I.C.A.R, TSR, Mil-Tec, Aitor). These are, with the exception of Adler (parts from Victorinox), of lower quality.
108 GAK - M.F.H. - Offiziers Messer
There is also an "officer version" of the 108 GAK. In addition to the usual components (no file), this knife also has combination pliers. MFH: Max Fuchs AG, Freyung.
Post by: Agamemnon on January 01, 2021, 03:08:02 PM
Post by: Mechanickal on January 01, 2021, 03:33:42 PM
(The ones with the actual GSG9 logo on the scales)
These weren't issued, but don't look as if they'd be available for civilian purchase either.
Post by: Agamemnon on January 01, 2021, 04:04:31 PM
Do you, by any chance, know when/where the GSG9 tribute knives were available?
(The ones with the actual GSG9 logo on the scales)
These weren't issued, but don't look as if they'd be available for civilian purchase either.
:hatsoff:
Hi Mechanickal,
i got this knife from a friend of mine, but I don't remember when it was. So, sorry.
Post by: Mechanickal on January 01, 2021, 04:06:05 PM
:hatsoff:That's the one!
Hi Mechanickal,
i got this knife from a friend of mine, but I don't remember when it was. So, sorry.
Found one on a local ad site for €20.
It's an intriguing one...
Post by: Mechanickal on January 01, 2021, 04:09:26 PM
Mine is a Rucksack model.
Slide lock...
:shrug:
Post by: EMZ on January 20, 2021, 05:12:15 PM
Unfortunately he wasn't willing to sell it.
Translation of the text:
NSN = NATO Stock Number, in which the number 17 represents the Netherlands.
Mes, zak - aantal 25 = Knife, pocket - amount 25
11/89 = Month / Year
homeij oisterwijk bv = Homeij is the name of the Victorinox representative company, settled in the town called Oisterwijk. BV = Ltd.
Post by: Reinier on January 20, 2021, 05:16:11 PM
Talking about Homeij: https://www.bva-auctions.com/en/auction/index/51301
Also, I sent them a letter appr. 25 years ago and I got a bunch of catalogues, stickers etc. in return :) Good stuff.
Post by: Guardian on January 21, 2021, 07:07:27 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on January 30, 2021, 03:08:03 PM
:dunno: A stranger. :dunno:
Yesterday I received a new Victorinox DAK. The knife is brand new and has never been used. Has a few tiny scratches. At first it looks like the DAK2010 that we currently have in use in the Netherlands.
Until I open the knife:
• The knife has a large knife blade, partly serrated, liner-locking and one-hand opening;
• A belt cutter, serrated with safety tip, liner-locking and one-hand-opening;
• And, surprise, a wood saw.
• In addition, it has a corkscrew and the key-ring
• There is no cap-lifter or can-opener
It seems to be a military version of the “Hunter XT” (2nd version). But, who can tell me anything more about this, please tell me.
Post by: 39hotrod on January 30, 2021, 03:11:57 PM
Post by: Reinier on January 30, 2021, 04:12:33 PM
Post by: Frailer on January 30, 2021, 10:13:37 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210130/6ab613b3d89415d7127f7aed0942ee8f.jpg)
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on January 31, 2021, 12:15:41 AM
Post by: 39hotrod on January 31, 2021, 01:19:21 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on January 31, 2021, 09:14:41 PM
:hatsoff:
:dunno: A stranger. :dunno:
Yesterday I received a new Victorinox DAK. The knife is brand new and has never been used. Has a few tiny scratches. At first it looks like the DAK2010 that we currently have in use in the Netherlands.
Until I open the knife:
• The knife has a large knife blade, partly serrated, liner-locking and one-hand opening;
• A belt cutter, serrated with safety tip, liner-locking and one-hand-opening;
• And, surprise, a wood saw.
• In addition, it has a corkscrew and the key-ring
• There is no cap-lifter or can-opener
It seems to be a military version of the “Hunter XT” (2nd version). But, who can tell me anything more about this, please tell me.
Nice find!
Any reason to assume someone put DAK scales on a Hunter XT ?
Did it come in a box with a NSN number?
Post by: Agamemnon on February 01, 2021, 11:52:17 AM
Nice find!
Any reason to assume someone put DAK scales on a Hunter XT ?
Did it come in a box with a NSN number?
:hatsoff:
The knife comes from a desk drawer of the DMO. The Defense Materiel Organization is a supporting part of the Dutch Ministry of Defense that provides for the development, acquisition, maintenance and disposal of (military) equipment for the Dutch armed forces.
It hasn't been tinkered with or rebuilt - just has a few tiny scratches. The scales fit exactly on the knife.
As is known, the packaging and instructions for use are the first to be thrown away; is therefore not included.
Post by: EMZ on February 01, 2021, 01:46:09 PM
In my opinion (and experience) it was and still is normal that purchase/procure agencies order a bunch of different items for testings and evaluations. Probably a handfull of diffent models were offered by Victorinox for evaluating purposes.
At the end of the proces some of the surviving items ends up in desk drawers or tool kits of the purchase agency personel. Especially in those days when procurment rules weren't so strict as nowadays. I have no reason to doubt the origines of this particular knife, although it is indeed probably easy to fake one.
Very nice KL88! Welcome to the DAK club.
Yours looks much better than the one I have.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 03, 2021, 07:16:04 PM
:hatsoff:
:dunno: A stranger. :dunno:
Yesterday I received a new Victorinox DAK. The knife is brand new and has never been used. Has a few tiny scratches. At first it looks like the DAK2010 that we currently have in use in the Netherlands.
Until I open the knife:
• The knife has a large knife blade, partly serrated, liner-locking and one-hand opening;
• A belt cutter, serrated with safety tip, liner-locking and one-hand-opening;
• And, surprise, a wood saw.
• In addition, it has a corkscrew and the key-ring
• There is no cap-lifter or can-opener
It seems to be a military version of the “Hunter XT” (2nd version). But, who can tell me anything more about this, please tell me.
:hatsoff:
The knife comes from a desk drawer of the DMO. The Defense Materiel Organization is a supporting part of the Dutch Ministry of Defense that provides for the development, acquisition, maintenance and disposal of (military) equipment for the Dutch armed forces.
It hasn't been tinkered with or rebuilt - just has a few tiny scratches. The scales fit exactly on the knife.
As is known, the packaging and instructions for use are the first to be thrown away; is therefore not included.
Guess what :sa:
This morning I was doing my daily grind for interesting stuff on Marktplaats, and an ad with this knife popped up. It had only 5 views yet so it was probably placed just before I found it, like it was meant to be :ahhh
I immediately made a fair offer to the seller and half an hour later the money was transferred and the ad removed :D
Now the waiting for the postman starts!
The seller suggested that maybe there was a shortage of the old model so they ordered the Hunter XT instead?
Very curious to see if more of these start appearing in the near future.
Post by: Frailer on February 03, 2021, 07:30:58 PM
Guess what :sa:
This morning I was doing my daily grind for interesting stuff on Marktplaats, and an ad with this knife popped up. It had only 5 views yet so it was probably placed just before I found it, like it was meant to be :ahhh...
I love it when things like this happen. Congratulations!
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 03, 2021, 07:41:23 PM
I love it when things like this happen. Congratulations!
Thanks Frailer! It was really a “ :sa: “ moment!
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on February 03, 2021, 08:43:25 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on February 06, 2021, 03:54:17 PM
:dunno: :dunno: :dunno:
Strange-stranger-strangest
At the beginning of this year I received the Victorinox OH Parachutist in a military version, with the Dutch Interservice logo.
Last week, the Victorinox OH Hunter XT fell on the doormat; again a military version, with the well-known logo.
Today the postman brought a Victorinox Forester disguised as DAK 1993, with green scales, the logo and a wood saw. It is brand new and is even somewhat in the "factory oil". Does not have a DE-GM marking - this means it was made after 2006
Comments:
It is unlikely, in my opinion, that these knives were used as "spare". We think they are mock-ups / test models. When military knives were not available for any reason, civil knives were provided (e.g. Victorinox Bantam, Victorinox Centurion).
Tests have been done with the Victorinox Centurion and the Rucksack, both the Slide-lock model, when the Victorinox Alox knife (Ordonnanz-Model 1961) had to be replaced.
Looking at Victorinox Forester, it is striking that this knife shows a lot of similarity (with Philips instead of a corkscrew) with the German Modell 2000 from Mil-Tec, in my collection of German army knives. This Modell 2000 was the successor to the GAK 108 and was the equivalent of the Dutch DAK 1993.
I can imagine that the Netherlands also "looked" at this model. Perhaps the Forester also participated in some kind of test.
DE-GM 9305297
This term refers (in Germany) to the Victorinox utility model with regard to the (liner-lock) locking mechanism.
DE: Deutschland; GM: GebrauchsMuster; 9305297; Registration Number.
A utility model is a registered intellectual property right that can be obtained in some countries (not in the Netherlands and Belgium) to protect inventions. Utility models are available in Denmark, Germany, France, Finland, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Austria, Portugal and Spain, among others.
The operation of a utility model is very similar to that of a patent. While the precise characteristics vary from country to country, it can generally be said that utility models are generally available for a more limited range of inventions (e.g. for devices only and not for processes), have shorter lifespans than patents (e.g. 10 years US 20 years), and are subject to less stringent validity requirements (for example by not taking into account certain categories of anteriorities when assessing the novelty of the utility model).
Victorinox stopped using this marking on the blade in 2006.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 06, 2021, 05:50:51 PM
Now, the seller that sold me the Hunter XT DAK didn’t yet ship it, because he deleted the message with my address or whatever. I don’t have a reason to doubt him because I bought from him before on two occasions.
Turns out to be a blessing in disguise because he also has the Forester DAK. So I bought that as well, and the shipping can be combined since the Hunter XT wasn’t shipped yet.
Post by: Agamemnon on February 06, 2021, 07:26:07 PM
Thanks for the info Agamemnon!
Now, the seller that sold me the Hunter XT DAK didn’t yet ship it, because he deleted the message with my address or whatever. I don’t have a reason to doubt him because I bought from him before on two occasions.
Turns out to be a blessing in disguise because he also has the Forester DAK. So I bought that as well, and the shipping can be combined since the Hunter XT wasn’t shipped yet.
:hatsoff:
Well done Glenfiddich
And now just wait for the mail to arrive. It will be a "long weekend."
I think we should just drink a whiskey on our new acquisitions.
Cheers
:cheers:
Post by: EMZ on February 10, 2021, 09:41:21 AM
It took me some time to find the guts to congratulate you, but now I have find the courage :hatsoff:
No, seriously, I'm just very glad they stay here in Holland. Great find and well done!!
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 10, 2021, 01:46:56 PM
Glenfiddich, you beat me twice on these two marvellous SAK's. :rant:
It took me some time to find the guts to congratulate you, but now I have find the courage :hatsoff:
No, seriously, I'm just very glad they stay here in Holland. Great find and well done!!
Thanks EMZ! :cheers:
Now I feel a bit bad about showing them off :facepalm:
But here they are. They arrived yesterday. Both brand new, but without a box.
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/t735tlqhr4ie44v/2021-02-10%2013.22.33.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/mh272643gurodej/2021-02-10%2013.26.23.jpg?raw=1)
And here are the two existing models, for comparison:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/x7suhjoz60fgnpp/2021-02-10%2013.30.48.jpg?raw=1)
Now I am still curious about the two new models. The seller claimed they were issued because they ran out of supply of the regular model. He said this is what he was told by he military surplus store where he got them from.
It would be nice to hear from an insider in the Dutch army/DMO to confirm if this is true, or that maybe these were test-models like Agamemnon suggested. If these were test-models it's interesting to know how many of these exist and how a couple of them ended up in a military surplus. Maybe someone at the DMO cleared his drawer with test-knives?
Or maybe these models actually are new models that are added to the DoD’s regular stock, perhaps as a (future) replacement for the current model? Time will tell.
Also I considered the possibility that someone swapped DAK scales to regular models to sell them as rare pieces and make more money, but that makes no sense: I paid not even € 10 per knife more for these knives than the regular selling prices of the Hunter XT and Trailmaster that are underneath the DAK scales.
Post by: 39hotrod on February 10, 2021, 01:59:43 PM
Post by: EMZ on February 10, 2021, 04:35:57 PM
I think the seller is trustworthy. I don't know him personally, but did good business with him before.
I don't think these are ran-out-of-stock models. Probabaly a handfull of each model was offered or shown to the Dutch Defense Materiel Organisation (DMO) for examination and testing.
If the price was that low it's is of no use to fake these knives.
Post by: EMZ on February 10, 2021, 10:13:17 PM
- RNLAF multi-tool of Chinese quality.
- RNLAF knife made by Metallo. "Vouwmes" = Folding Knife. It was distributed to RNLAF computer and communications technicians/mechanics ("Communication and Information Systems - CIS"). It has a Dutch, NSN 5110-17-031-3972.
Both knives were bought with the help of Agamemnon. Thank you again!
Post by: Agamemnon on February 11, 2021, 05:06:42 PM
Two more DAK acquisitions:
- RNLAF multi-tool of Chinese quality.
- RNLAF knife made by Metallo. "Vouwmes" = Folding Knife. It was distributed to RNLAF computer and communications technicians/mechanics ("Communication and Information Systems - CIS"). It has a Dutch, NSN 5110-17-031-3972.
Both knives were bought with the help of Agamemnon. Thank you again!
:hatsoff:
Post by: Myron on February 12, 2021, 12:31:06 AM
Post by: Echotech on February 12, 2021, 02:19:35 AM
In pretty decent condition and for about the same price as a new Pioneer. Got an AMEFA on the way too
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210212/5936e29a167868b595452de2f9e5d97b.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210212/c1a05f00fac7c6ec1921ec6660a68e5c.jpg)
Post by: Myron on February 12, 2021, 02:31:29 AM
Post by: Echotech on February 12, 2021, 02:37:34 AM
Very nice, Echo! The Model 1961 DAKs are so superb. Congratulations!Thanks Myron my 61 collection is getting there, just waiting on one more (for now :rofl: ) and will post them all together
Post by: EMZ on February 12, 2021, 08:25:26 AM
I call dibs on Glenfiddich's new DAKs on behalf of EMZ! :)
Thanks Myron. Someone had to do it... :D
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 12, 2021, 08:58:52 AM
Two more DAK acquisitions:
- RNLAF multi-tool of Chinese quality.
- RNLAF knife made by Metallo. "Vouwmes" = Folding Knife. It was distributed to RNLAF computer and communications technicians/mechanics ("Communication and Information Systems - CIS"). It has a Dutch, NSN 5110-17-031-3972.
Both knives were bought with the help of Agamemnon. Thank you again!
:like:
Got my first DAK to add to the Soldier collection.
In pretty decent condition and for about the same price as a new Pioneer. Got an AMEFA on the way too
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210212/5936e29a167868b595452de2f9e5d97b.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210212/c1a05f00fac7c6ec1921ec6660a68e5c.jpg)
Congrats! :cheers:
I call dibs on Glenfiddich's new DAKs on behalf of EMZ! :)
:rofl:
If I ever decide to sell them, i'll think of EMZ first :salute:
Post by: EMZ on February 15, 2021, 04:49:59 PM
:like:
Congrats! :cheers:
:rofl:
If I ever decide to sell them, i'll think of EMZ first :salute:
Thanks Glenfidd!!
And now something completely different.
A Dutch Army promotional set, consisting of well made Chinese multi-tool and LED flashlight.
Post by: EMZ on February 16, 2021, 10:08:21 PM
It's a nifty item! After you engage both fork and spoon, the two halves detach and can be used seperately.
Text on the pouch reads: "landmacht. BANENWINKEL ARNHEM. plus telephon number.
Landmacht = Army
Banenwinkel = 'Job Shop' (recruitment center)
Arnhem = City in the east of the Netherlands.
The Netherlands Army had several recruitment center in larger cities, but all had to close in late 2009 because of budget cuts. That dates this multi-tool before 2010.
Post by: SAK118 on February 16, 2021, 10:50:04 PM
It is the Swisstool Spirit BS and there is the Dutch Lion Stamped on the leather.
It is pictured in the Book "Das Schweizer Soldatenmesser". There is a small section for the Dutch Knives.
Post by: EMZ on February 17, 2021, 12:10:15 AM
It is the Swisstool Spirit BS and there is the Dutch Lion Stamped on the leather.
The stamp/imprint is called the 'Interservice logo', consisting of a lion (army), anker (navy) and bird (air force).
Welcome to the DAK Club!
Post by: Agamemnon on February 20, 2021, 11:16:47 AM
2021 - the year of the strange knives.
This week I received a new acquisition: an unmarked knife that looks a lot like the Amefa knives with brown fiber grip.
The knife belonged to a Dutch ex-soldier who was drafted in 1949 and got this knife with his equipment.
The story behind the knife:
On 19-09-1931 Eugen Hollaender (a German) founded the Apeldoornsche Messenfabriek NV Haagse Import Maatschappij Olanda (Apeldoornse Knife factory NV The Hague Import Company Olanda). This would later become Amefa. He initially produced razors and in the 1940s switched to kitchen knives and pocket knives, which he supplied to the Dutch and German army.
Hollaender's application for naturalization, which he submitted at the same time as his marriage in 1937, got stranded in the bureaucracy during the German occupation. So he still had the German nationality and therefore he could sign a contract with Germany. The knives he made were therefore also used in the German Wehrmacht. The knife was made until WWII.
After the war, the Hollaender family was placed under a trustee. This arose from a general measure against companies that were run under the German flag during the occupation. Hollaender was also, immediately after the liberation of Apeldoorn, because he was a German, imprisoned in the Willem III barracks in Apeldoorn. There he sat together with other Germans and NSB (National SoSmurfpillst Movement in the Netherlands) members.
In the 1950s he was neutralized as a Dutchman.
The knife, most likely made by "Olanda" and probably served as an "example" for the DAK that was made by Amefa and used after the war. Because of this, the later Amefa's and this knife have (almost) the same configuration.
Post by: EMZ on February 20, 2021, 04:14:58 PM
I didn't know Amefa was estahblished by a German who's name was Hollaender. What a coincidence.
After consulting the internet this morning, I read that during WW2 Amefa produced knives and razor blades for the German army, but that Hollaender was also anti-German, and helped the local resistance, risking his own life. That's why he was honoured in 2011 by giving his name to a street in Apeldoorn: the Hollaenderstraat.
Post by: Agamemnon on February 21, 2021, 11:44:18 AM
Great story, Agamemnon!
I didn't know Amefa was estahblished by a German who's name was Hollaender. What a coincidence.
After consulting the internet this morning, I read that during WW2 Amefa produced knives and razor blades for the German army, but that Hollaender was also anti-German, and helped the local resistance, risking his own life. That's why he was honoured in 2011 by giving his name to a street in Apeldoorn: the Hollaenderstraat.
:hatsoff:
Thanks EMZ.
For the local resistance and the old forced laborers, Hollaender and his wife are seen as Oskar Schindler (“Schindlers List”) of Apeldoorn.
Post by: Echotech on February 26, 2021, 05:36:44 AM
:hatsoff:Excellent write up and pics Agamemnon, what an interesting story :tu:
2021 - the year of the strange knives.
This week I received a new acquisition: an unmarked knife that looks a lot like the Amefa knives with brown fiber grip.
The knife belonged to a Dutch ex-soldier who was drafted in 1949 and got this knife with his equipment.
The story behind the knife:
On 19-09-1931 Eugen Hollaender (a German) founded the Apeldoornsche Messenfabriek NV Haagse Import Maatschappij Olanda (Apeldoornse Knife factory NV The Hague Import Company Olanda). This would later become Amefa. He initially produced razors and in the 1940s switched to kitchen knives and pocket knives, which he supplied to the Dutch and German army.
Hollaender's application for naturalization, which he submitted at the same time as his marriage in 1937, got stranded in the bureaucracy during the German occupation. So he still had the German nationality and therefore he could sign a contract with Germany. The knives he made were therefore also used in the German Wehrmacht. The knife was made until WWII.
After the war, the Hollaender family was placed under a trustee. This arose from a general measure against companies that were run under the German flag during the occupation. Hollaender was also, immediately after the liberation of Apeldoorn, because he was a German, imprisoned in the Willem III barracks in Apeldoorn. There he sat together with other Germans and NSB (National SoSmurfpillst Movement in the Netherlands) members.
In the 1950s he was neutralized as a Dutchman.
The knife, most likely made by "Olanda" and probably served as an "example" for the DAK that was made by Amefa and used after the war. Because of this, the later Amefa's and this knife have (almost) the same configuration.
Post by: Echotech on February 26, 2021, 05:46:44 AM
Closer in quality to the VIC than I was expecting, not quite as well finished, particularly noticeable with the pins but not bad at all
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210226/67b904dde0e02a2720d79e985e49428c.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210226/e745946848e93928f3a3a0669a47a184.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210226/a487d0fc0c4d1aaf529ab0934e6ca052.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210226/14b1f33b6af28b241c8e3e2e6cd43885.jpg)
Post by: SgtTowser on February 26, 2021, 06:13:16 AM
The old ones have blade pivots pretty reminiscent of Pradel
Post by: Agamemnon on February 26, 2021, 12:00:42 PM
Received this AMEFA KL79 today, thanks to HankGreen on the MT’s for sale forum
Closer in quality to the VIC than I was expecting, not quite as well finished, particularly noticeable with the pins but not bad at all
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210226/67b904dde0e02a2720d79e985e49428c.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210226/e745946848e93928f3a3a0669a47a184.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210226/a487d0fc0c4d1aaf529ab0934e6ca052.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210226/14b1f33b6af28b241c8e3e2e6cd43885.jpg)
:hatsoff:
Hi Echotech,
Nice Amefa KL 79 congratulations on your new acquisition – looking good.
As can be seen in the photos, this is the 4-piece version. (2nd version). There is however also a 3-piece version (1st version).
The KL72, KL73, KL74 & KLU74 was a 3-part pocket knife, stainless steel with ribbed aluminum body. Folding knife, bottle opener / wide flat screwdriver and flat awl. The years "72," 73 and "74; do not have a can opener. (P-38 - Can Opener - NSN 7330-99-549-6287).This was provided separately. In addition, the bottle opener was on the same side as the blade.
In addition to the KL (army variant), a KLU (air force) knife was also provided in 1974. From 1975 the 2nd type was introduced, with 4 parts. These knives all had brass liners. The first two production years were 1975 and 1976. In 1977 no production took place. In the following years the KL78, KL79, KL80, KL81 and KL 82 were released.
Amefa produced this series up to and including 1982 and finally once more in 1984. In 1983 and the years after 1984 Victorinox became the supplier. During this period Victorinox started a lawsuit against Amefa for patent evasion. As a result, Defense was obliged to buy only from Victorinox.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 26, 2021, 01:58:31 PM
:hatsoff:
Hi Echotech,
Nice Amefa KL 79 congratulations on your new acquisition – looking good.
As can be seen in the photos, this is the 4-piece version. (2nd version). There is however also a 3-piece version (1st version).
The KL72, KL73, KL74 & KLU74 was a 3-part pocket knife, stainless steel with ribbed aluminum body. Folding knife, bottle opener / wide flat screwdriver and flat awl. The years "72," 73 and "74; do not have a can opener. (P-38 - Can Opener - NSN 7330-99-549-6287).This was provided separately. In addition, the bottle opener was on the same side as the blade.
In addition to the KL (army variant), a KLU (air force) knife was also provided in 1974. From 1975 the 2nd type was introduced, with 4 parts. These knives all had brass liners. The first two production years were 1975 and 1976. In 1977 no production took place. In the following years the KL78, KL79, KL80, KL81 and KL 82 were released.
Amefa produced this series up to and including 1982 and finally once more in 1984. In 1983 and the years after 1984 Victorinox became the supplier. During this period Victorinox started a lawsuit against Amefa for patent evasion. As a result, Defense was obliged to buy only from Victorinox.
Very informative :hatsoff:
Never knew about that lawsuit!
Post by: EMZ on February 26, 2021, 02:30:18 PM
I bought this one also for a very reasonable price from the same seller as Glenfiddich bought his two rare models (see earlier posts).
Post by: Agamemnon on February 26, 2021, 02:39:37 PM
looks good EMZ - congrats :cheers:
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on February 26, 2021, 03:06:22 PM
Another probably experimental/proposal/test model DAK: The Victorinox Forester OH with 'Interservice' logo.
I bought this one also for a very reasonable price from the same seller as Glenfiddich bought his two rare models (see earlier posts).
Congratz! :cheers:
Post by: EMZ on February 26, 2021, 03:28:37 PM
These can openers came with our combat rations (gevechtsrantsoenen'). One in each C-Rat.
After reading Agamemnon's post I realized I still had one of these old timer combat rations lying around somewhere. Well, luckily I found it, but the quality of the contents had detoriated over the years. Especially the tin can with 'Kaas, Korstloos' (= Cheese, Crustless) is in a bad, leaking condition. But this ration dates around 1978!
I guess I have to open it one day and remove the very rotten content...
Included some pictures of the Macaroni & Ham ration + the can opener in its plastic pouch (originally the pouch was made of laminated paper-plastic-aluminium, but many years ago I packed the contents in clear plastic.)
The can opener is hiding between the green toilet paper and the chewing gum. See the red arrow.
Post by: EMZ on February 27, 2021, 04:23:54 PM
Text on revers side: Bindingsdag 2003 (= binding/interconnecting day 2003).
Tang stamp is 'Stainless Steel' which factually means 'China'.
Post by: SgtTowser on February 27, 2021, 05:38:55 PM
Back on topic with this promotional Dutch air force pocket knife!
Text on revers side: Bindingsdag 2003 (= binding/interconnecting day 2003).
Tang stamp is 'Stainless Steel' which factually means 'China'.
Epic 👍
I half expect wings to pop out and it to transform into a nano drone!!!
Are these scarce?
My neighbor is a pilot and would love one of these!
The top pick is actually reminiscent of a cargo/tanker!
Post by: Echotech on February 28, 2021, 12:36:50 AM
:hatsoff::tu: excellent write up thanks for that, always interesting to understand some of the history behind them
Hi Echotech,
Nice Amefa KL 79 congratulations on your new acquisition – looking good.
As can be seen in the photos, this is the 4-piece version. (2nd version). There is however also a 3-piece version (1st version).
The KL72, KL73, KL74 & KLU74 was a 3-part pocket knife, stainless steel with ribbed aluminum body. Folding knife, bottle opener / wide flat screwdriver and flat awl. The years "72," 73 and "74; do not have a can opener. (P-38 - Can Opener - NSN 7330-99-549-6287).This was provided separately. In addition, the bottle opener was on the same side as the blade.
In addition to the KL (army variant), a KLU (air force) knife was also provided in 1974. From 1975 the 2nd type was introduced, with 4 parts. These knives all had brass liners. The first two production years were 1975 and 1976. In 1977 no production took place. In the following years the KL78, KL79, KL80, KL81 and KL 82 were released.
Amefa produced this series up to and including 1982 and finally once more in 1984. In 1983 and the years after 1984 Victorinox became the supplier. During this period Victorinox started a lawsuit against Amefa for patent evasion. As a result, Defense was obliged to buy only from Victorinox.
Post by: EMZ on March 01, 2021, 03:28:58 PM
Epic 👍
I half expect wings to pop out and it to transform into a nano drone!!!
Are these scarce?
My neighbor is a pilot and would love one of these!
The top pick is actually reminiscent of a cargo/tanker!
Cargo/tanker! :rofl:
Are they scarce? I dunno... probably.... It's the first one I've ever seen. It's my guess only a few dozens were ever made.
This one is not even in Agamemnon's collection -I think he has the most extensive DAK collection- so it's probably a rare specimen.
Post by: Agamemnon on March 02, 2021, 05:50:25 PM
Cargo/tanker! :rofl:
Are they scarce? I dunno... probably.... It's the first one I've ever seen. It's my guess only a few dozens were ever made.
This one is not even in Agamemnon's collection -I think he has the most extensive DAK collection- so it's probably a rare specimen.
:hatsoff: :cheers:
Too bad EMZ but I have to disappoint you; I have the knife in my collection.
You are right to say it is a rare knife. I had never seen it either.
By the way, thank you for your tip for the CRKT - Thunderbolt 2 of the 11 LMB. I'll get it in tomorrow. :cheers:
Post by: Agamemnon on March 07, 2021, 05:09:13 PM
My three new acquisitions:
CRKT - Lake Thunderbolt 2 – 7130 – with the logo of the 11 LMB
Was a Brigade "Christmas Present" to the 11LMB in (±) 2005. The choice was the pocket knife or a gift card.
Used in Afghanistan in 2008. 11 Infantry Battalion (Air Assault) "Garderegiment Jagers en Grenadiers” (Cloak regiment Hunters and Grenadiers) was part of Battle Group 7 of Task Force Uruzgan (TFU 7).
Pocket knife Houthobbyclub PMK Wezep
If you are stationed somewhere as a soldier and you want to spend your free time on a hobby after "duty hours", there are several clubs you can join. One of these clubs is the Houthobbyclub (woodworking club) in the “Prinses Margrietkazerne” in Wezep. This pocket knife was a gift from this club.
The Princess Margriet Barracks are located in Wezep on the northern edge of the Veluwe. After the occupation in 1940, the complex was built according to German design.
The barracks are adjacent to the Oldebroekse Heide, one of the largest military training grounds in the Netherlands. The Princess Margriet barracks mainly contain parts of 101 Engineer Battalion. Furthermore, the staff of 11 Panzer Engineer Battalion is housed there with two Panzer Engineer companies and a part of the Education and Training Center for Engineer is located there.
Vfonds.
This (small) multi-tool comes from the Veterans Institute, there is little else to say about it.
Post by: SgtTowser on March 07, 2021, 06:05:10 PM
:hatsoff:
My three new acquisitions:
CRKT - Lake Thunderbolt 2 – 7130 – with the logo of the 11 LMB
Was a Brigade "Christmas Present" to the 11LMB in (±) 2005. The choice was the pocket knife or a gift card.
Used in Afghanistan in 2008. 11 Infantry Battalion (Air Assault) "Garderegiment Jagers en Grenadiers” (Cloak regiment Hunters and Grenadiers) was part of Battle Group 7 of Task Force Uruzgan (TFU 7).
Pocket knife Houthobbyclub PMK Wezep
If you are stationed somewhere as a soldier and you want to spend your free time on a hobby after "duty hours", there are several clubs you can join. One of these clubs is the Houthobbyclub (woodworking club) in the “Prinses Margrietkazerne” in Wezep. This pocket knife was a gift from this club.
The Princess Margriet Barracks are located in Wezep on the northern edge of the Veluwe. After the occupation in 1940, the complex was built according to German design.
The barracks are adjacent to the Oldebroekse Heide, one of the largest military training grounds in the Netherlands. The Princess Margriet barracks mainly contain parts of 101 Engineer Battalion. Furthermore, the staff of 11 Panzer Engineer Battalion is housed there with two Panzer Engineer companies and a part of the Education and Training Center for Engineer is located there.
Vfonds.
This (small) multi-tool comes from the Veterans Institute, there is little else to say about it.
Thx for the knife info and historical background, plus account of hobbying in military life.
Post by: Agamemnon on March 13, 2021, 07:50:45 PM
Thx for the knife info and historical background, plus account of hobbying in military life.
:hatsoff:
Post by: EMZ on March 14, 2021, 01:31:49 PM
DBBO = Defensie Bewakings- en Beveiligingsorganisatie, or in bad English 'Defence Guarding and Secutity Organisation'. This DBBO was established in 2013 as an overall orgaisation for guwrd and security duties for the Dutch Army, Navy en Air Force intsllations. Its personel consists of armed civilian emplyees.
2. Promotional Nite Ize Dookickey Key Tool. It was a give-away item on Army Open Days.
"Werken bij Defensie. Je moet het maar kunnen" translate into something like "Work at the Armed Services. You just must be able do do it."
3. A promotional 'survival set' from the "BBT Vakbond".
BBT = Beroeps Bepaalde Tijd, wich translate into Short Term Professional. BBT'ers are the military men and women who sign in for a 4 or 6 year term.
Vakbond = Union.
So this item was given to new members of the Union for Short Term Professionals. The quality of the items is rather 'minimal'.
Post by: EMZ on March 19, 2021, 12:55:48 PM
But last week I received a 'real deal', a genuine Leatherman Wave. It has the inscription of the "Schoolbataljon Centraal", which translates into 'School Battalion Central'. (You see, Dutch language is not complicated at all). Date stamp is 0205.
The Dutch Army had from 1994-2007 three schools where new recruits got their initial military trainings. These were the School Batallions North, Central and South. The Central one was based in a small town called Ermelo. These LM's probably were standard issue for the recruits of the Central school.
Post by: Echotech on March 19, 2021, 01:29:30 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on May 02, 2021, 11:44:48 AM
Two Victorinox cousins: the Centurion and the Nomad.
My two latest acquisitions. Both DAK93 and provided with the Dutch Interservice logo.
Both received from former military personnel and have both been "employed".
Nothing else to tell this time.
Post by: Echotech on May 02, 2021, 12:47:19 PM
Post by: Likewise on May 09, 2021, 06:55:02 PM
Post by: EMZ on May 09, 2021, 07:24:04 PM
As far as I can see, it is in an excellent condition. Unfortunately the KLU 65 is not even in my own collection.
For you it is a marvellous start if you want to collect DAK's.
Welcome to the MTO club, and please enjoy our pictures and descriptions.
Post by: Likewise on May 09, 2021, 09:42:55 PM
Congratulations with this very rare Dutch Army Knife!!
As far as I can see, it is in an excellent condition. Unfortunately the KLU 65 is not even in my own collection.
For you it is a marvellous start if you want to collect DAK's.
Welcome to the MTO club, and please enjoy our pictures and descriptions.
Do you know what the value of this would be? I’m not interested in selling it however I would like to start collecting these knives, should I stick with the fibre handled tools? I have no information on the value of the knives/tools and I don’t want to overpay. If I clean it will it damage the history of the knife? What is an ideal series for me to continue collecting in the line?
Any help would be appreciated,
Total newbie, super fascinated!
Regards,
Likewise
Post by: SgtTowser on May 10, 2021, 11:22:31 PM
Post by: Likewise on May 11, 2021, 08:40:40 AM
Likewise
Post by: Agamemnon on May 11, 2021, 10:47:52 AM
It is a can opener
Post by: Agamemnon on May 11, 2021, 11:21:53 AM
On September 19, 1931, Eugen Hollaender founded the Apeldoornsche Messenfabriek N.V. Haagse Import Mij. Olanda. This would later become Amefa. In the 1940s, this company also made and supplied pocket knives to the Wehrmacht. The owner E. Hollaender still had the German nationality and for that reason he could also close a deal with Germany. The knife was therefore also used in the German Wehrmacht. The knife has a red fibre handle and was made until WWII. The knife is not marked.
It probably served as an "example" for the Dutch knife that was made by Amefa after the war.
After World War II, the pocket knives came in the equipment of a Dutch soldier. It all started in the early 1950s when a Dutch company AMEFA (Apeldoornse Messen Fabriek) started producing pocket knives consisting of 4 parts.
The very first knife M1952 from Instalex (International Staalwaren Export Company), part of Amefa. Was issued in the mid 1950's. It is probably the first knife in the "new" Model 1952 series.
The Amefa era lasted until the early 1980s when the Swiss company Victorinox started supplying the Dutch service knives. This still happens today.
In the 1950s the knives were only marked with KL without the addition of the year. It is not known how many knives have been put into circulation for Amefa.
In the early 1950s (before KL61), Amefa made knives where position of the bottle opener and the can opener were ‘swapped’ compared to the later models.
The Dutch army knives M1952 were made by AMEFA (Apeldoornse Messen Fabriek) - logo is on the ricasso, had a handle with brown fibre grip plates and a D-ring. These models were issued in limited numbers in the period 1950 - 1983. The first models only had the indication KL (Koninklijke Landmacht) on the handle and no year.
The KL61 is the first knife with an annual listing. In 1962 there was no production. Production resumed in 1963 and 1965 with the KL (army) knife and also a KLU (air force) knife. No production took place in 1964.
No production took place in the years 1967, '68 and '69. The next issue was 1970 and was also the last.
In 1971 there was no more production and the Model 1952 period was also ended.
Post by: Likewise on May 11, 2021, 04:36:41 PM
Regards,
Wayne
Post by: SgtTowser on May 12, 2021, 03:59:44 AM
:hatsoff:
It is a can opener
Aggie, I trust you. So: how would one operate that sort of can opener? I can see pushing straight down, or pounding down to get a puncture, but then what?
Post by: Likewise on May 12, 2021, 04:52:16 AM
I guess the greater question is why are they on the klu65 sets? Other photos show the same small stout blade.
Thoughts? I think the other person in the thread has photos of the same item with the same blade/tool, correct me if I’m wrong (I’m not, I checked them carefully.😉)
So ideally what would that be used for outside of a can opener?
Regards Wayne
Post by: Agamemnon on May 12, 2021, 12:08:27 PM
It takes some "practice" to open a can with this can opener. We learned this during the basic training.
Push the opener (with a bang) through the top of the can. The protrusion is of course on the outside and lies with the straight side on the rim of the can. If you are right-handed, pull the pocket knife towards you and follow the edge of the can until you are completely "round". If you are left-handed, you push the knife away from you and follow the edge.
You "cut", as it were, with the "sharp" side of the knife through the tin using the protrusion as a lever.
Post by: Ivo on May 12, 2021, 02:10:41 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on May 12, 2021, 04:52:10 PM
The KL95 from Fosco is the only knife from the M52 and M61 series that does not have a carrying eye. The quality of the Fosco knives was not up to par and were therefore not used for long. The biggest problem with these knives was consistency; all knives looked different. The back springs do not go all the way back when the knife was closed; the notches for the nail are not the same.
Very shortly after the issue, the contract was cancelled and the knives were taken back and destroyed. The knife was only issued in 1995.
There are two versions of the KL95 from Fosco: an aluminium (alox) version (1st version) and the stainless steel version (2nd version). The stainless steel Fosco KL 95 is a derivative of the US MIL-K-818-D.
It is not known to me whether this version was actually used by the armed forces
Post by: Ivo on May 12, 2021, 08:23:05 PM
I found them last week on the market and bought 2 of them, it was the first time I saw them. You are right, the quality is very poor.
Post by: Agamemnon on May 13, 2021, 01:31:33 PM
The Fosco KL95 is rare - you don't see them much. They were so bad that they were even thrown away. So there are not many left.
Back to the can opener.
Indeed, it is not easy to open a can with this tool, but it was thought by "people" when we reposition the can opener, it may be easier. It turned out that the problem was not the location of the can opener, but the thing itself.
We went through the era of the brown Amefa knives and kept struggling to open the tins. (Perhaps the "Opening cans" lessons were dropped during basic training.)
But, when the era of these knives came to an end, it was thought that we could do with a knife without a can opener. So the next model (alox version) from Amefa made its appearance: A 3-part pocket knife, stainless steel with a ribbed aluminium body. Folding knife, bottle opener / wide flat screwdriver and flat awl. The can opener was supplied separately.
These things, after they were used, had to be kept in your pocket until you needed them again. And of course you would have lost the can opener. This "separate can opener" period lasted 3 years: 1972, 1973 and 1974 (incl. KLU74).
From 1975 the 2nd type was introduced, with 4 parts. These knives all had brass liners. The first two production years were 1975 and 1976. In 1977 no production took place. In the following years the KL78, KL79, KL80, KL81 and KL 82 were released.
Post by: EMZ on May 18, 2021, 06:45:32 PM
In fact now only one is missing in my older type KL/KM/KLU collection: The KLu 74.
Post by: Agamemnon on May 19, 2021, 10:05:28 AM
Looking good EMZ :tu: and good luck with your search for the Klu 74
Post by: Echotech on May 19, 2021, 11:20:18 AM
Post by: SgtTowser on June 03, 2021, 06:31:29 AM
Finally I found a KLU 63, made by Amefa.
In fact now only one is missing in my older type KL/KM/KLU collection: The KLu 74.
U r awesome. Keep it up. The Dutch Army should give you a citation for assembling part of their legacy.
Post by: EMZ on June 03, 2021, 10:01:44 AM
However, I will post in near future some pictures of my latest acquisition, a Wenger Master with blade lock. Please have patience!
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on June 03, 2021, 01:03:14 PM
Thanks for the compliments! I wish the Dutch Army could offer me (and Agamemnon, Glenf and Osos as well) a financial citation... :whistle:
However, I will post in near future some pictures of my latest acquisition, a Wenger Master with blade lock. Please have patience!
:hatsoff:
Post by: EMZ on June 04, 2021, 04:36:21 PM
Answer: A compass and a SAK!
Oh yes, a credit card and a helicopter would also be very helpful, but let's asume your spouse is using your credit card at that moment, and the helicopter is in repair. So, you still need your compass and SAK.
But where to find these items? Well, in an official Dutch Army Survival Kit of course!
Although I'm not planning to escape and survive, I recently bought me this survival set from an on-line army/navy store. To my VERY suprise it was equiped with this beautiful, NIB Wenger Security 52 pocket knife. :ahhh
In my opinion this is the best small survival pocket knife ever made.
Post by: EMZ on June 04, 2021, 04:40:56 PM
Official Dutch Army name is: "Gordeltasuitrusting", which translates into 'girdle bag equipment'.
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on June 05, 2021, 12:28:40 AM
Post by: SgtTowser on June 05, 2021, 07:51:09 AM
It looks like a Wenger Journeyman by another name. Excellent.
The Dutch approach to survival involves a close shave (razors/gel) and a fresh smile (toothbrush).
A great find.
:like:
Post by: SgtTowser on June 05, 2021, 07:51:26 AM
Post by: SgtTowser on June 05, 2021, 08:05:58 AM
Post by: SAKTaschenmesser on August 11, 2021, 03:57:54 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/SL0IlUQl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A3sKML4l.jpg)
Post by: pa_strunk on August 11, 2021, 05:21:00 PM
Post by: Myron on August 11, 2021, 06:05:39 PM
Post by: SAKTaschenmesser on August 11, 2021, 06:19:31 PM
Very nice find, David!Thanks, £22, I don’t know if that is cheap, expensive, or just about right.
Do you know if the wood fibre scale material is exactly the same as that used by Victorinox and Wenger? I can’t recall coming across this material before so wondered if it was a material in general use for a wide range of applications or a proprietary material specifically used for knife scales.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: EMZ on August 12, 2021, 06:48:31 PM
(...) the profile of the blade, the way it weaves its way between the awl and tin opener!
Holy...! I have them all, but never noticed the 'weave' of the blade!
£ 22 is a fair price. This knife in good condition costs about € 15-25 in Holland (which of course is the source, the spring of the Amefa's.)
Post by: Agamemnon on August 14, 2021, 06:27:32 PM
My newest addition to my collection. This week I received 2 knives:
Boatswain's knife from Homeij.
The Royal Netherlands Navy / Marine Corps had been using the knife of the Adler company from around 1965 and the knife of the Homeij company from 1970 in use.
This "Homeij" was in use by the Marine Corps (owner was a former Marine) in the period 1993-2000.
On 1 July 2010, Homeij from Oisterwijk (name of the town) received orders from the Ministry of Defence for the delivery of the multifunctional pocket knife to the Dutch Ministry of Defence. The evaluation phase of the Ministry of Defence started some time ago. Several suppliers were invited to submitting a quote. The different models were extensively tested by employees of the Ministry of Defence.
Subsequently, the technical specifications were tested in the laboratories of the TNO. Based on the results of these tests, the Ministry of Defence has opted for both the Victorinox pocket knife and the multi-tool. The pocket knife known as DAK 2010 (Dutch Army Knife). The multi-tool is of course the Spirit Black.
Who is Homey?
In 1970, somewhere in a garage, Henk Hovius and Anneke Meijer set up their company: Homeij. This small company has since grown into the speSmurfpillst in the field of knives and accessories. In 2016, the family business was taken over by the two partners Jeroen Croonen and Jarno van der Donk and is the supplier of knives / multitools to the Dutch Army.
G T I 408 = 1e Regiment Genie Troepen (Pioniers) / 1e Regiment Engineers (Pioneers)
This knife was issued to the former owner in 1930 when he had to join the army, and I got it from his grandson.
A number is stamped or burned on the wooden handles of issued copies. The size of the numbers varies. As a rule, large numbers are used, but also small numbers the size of those used on identity plates. Sometimes the regiment is explicitly mentioned.
The wooden handles and iron spring of the handle are generally secured with three rivets apart from the nail on which the knife hinges. The 'hinge nail' is set slightly off centre in the slot of the iron end of the blade. The knife is sharpened and has a cut nail grip on one side. The transition from the blade to the handle is marked by a cam on the cutting side.
The knife is a sought-after but rare object in collectors' circles. The latter may be due to the fact that it was just a handy object that could also be used outside the service and that the stock was used up. On the other hand, the rarity is strange, as very large numbers must have been issued.
In the service order No. 16 Clothing, Equipment and Leather Goods Regulations for the Royal Netherlands Army, Breda 1936, there are extensive lists of what was issued to which regiment. It now appears that all soldiers in service were issued the knife and were allowed to take it home when they left the army.
The only exception were the soldiers of the Voluntary Landstorm Corps. They only received their knives when the mobilization was announced. However, this only applies to the V.L.C.
Post by: Echotech on August 15, 2021, 05:57:03 AM
Post by: Code of The West on September 07, 2021, 02:01:23 AM
Nice collection !
I like the pictures of the new DAK, especially because they are my fotos of my knife on my jeans jacket :D .
Do you think I could work with you to get some Dutch knives (buy) ?
Post by: EMZ on September 15, 2021, 04:32:48 PM
According to information given to me by Agamemnon, the Adirondacks were once part of Dutch army survival kits.
Post by: Agamemnon on October 10, 2021, 12:03:22 PM
My newest acquisition (the story and the pictures):
Due to cutbacks in defense expenditure in the Netherlands and Germany, as a result of which the Netherlands was unable to maintain the strength of the 1st Army Corps and Germany was unable to raise a full Third Army Corps, both countries decided to establish a joint German-Dutch Army Corps, 1(GE/ NL)Corps (30/8/1995).
This First German-Dutch Army Corps is a NATO defense unit, consisting of German and Dutch army units. The headquarters is located in the German city of Münster.
Post by: Echotech on October 10, 2021, 12:05:56 PM
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on October 10, 2021, 12:23:44 PM
Post by: ALEKS ALEKS on October 31, 2021, 11:33:04 AM
DAK, model 1993, was accidentally discovered on the Internet in April 2021
Post by: ALEKS ALEKS on October 31, 2021, 11:35:48 AM
- nylon pads from GAK-111 are installed on the knife;
- a large screwdriver has a broken slot;
- the blade was in good condition with a clear stamp of the patent DE-GM 9305297. The stamp with the Victorinox A.G. logo has «two» lines;
Note: I found a large development on the back – «heel» of the blade (scratches).
- the rest of the tool is in good condition (new);
- all tools open with great effort;
- defective blade blocking Liner-Lock. The blade opens tightly, in jerks.
In May 2021, the knife was handed over to Switzerland for repair, to Victorinox A.G., in Ibach, at the location of the production.
In September 2021, the refurbished DAK, 1993 returned.
The total cost estimate is $ 21.7. Knife repair at Ibach - 4 months.
Victorinox A.G. was repair:
- replaced by a large screwdriver;
- blade replacement, a blade without stamp DE-GM 9305297 is installed, with the Victorinox A.G logo on "three" lines;
- blocking repair. Liner-Lock, works perfect. Restored intermediate fixation of the blade in the 90 ° position;
- Installation of original nylon linings, khaki color with the emblem of the Armed Forces of the Netherlands;
- moving parts of the knife in factory lubrication;
- the tool opens perfectly.
Post by: EMZ on November 08, 2021, 08:06:57 PM
Funny thing that Vic turned your GAK into a DAK.
Did your 'old' knife had the old or new liner lock? (The new version has 'press' stamped on the sides, and is a little bit higher.)
I guess the new blade is a little bit larger in height, than the old blade?
Post by: EMZ on November 08, 2021, 08:15:49 PM
DAK afficionado's and all others, fasten your seatbelts!
Here are the first detailed pictures of a genuine, beautiful, Holy Grail Victorinox: The latest version of the blue alox RNLAF Survival Kit Knife !! :drool:
This particular knife is a little bit of an enigma...
In order to shed some light: Look at the tweezers.
Tomorrow I show you more detailed pics.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on November 08, 2021, 08:54:50 PM
And now, ladies and gentleman, this is the news you've all been waiting for! :woohoo:
DAK afficionado's and all others, fasten your seatbelts!
Here are the first detailed pictures of a genuine, beautiful, Holy Grail Victorinox: The latest version of the blue alox RNLAF Survival Kit Knife !! :drool:
This particular knife is a little bit of an enigma...
In order to shed some light: Look at the tweezers.
Tomorrow I show you more detailed pics.
:hatsoff:
Post by: Farmer X on November 08, 2021, 09:18:49 PM
In order to shed some light: Look at the tweezers.Metal tip? Whatever the case, that's a most excellent DAK! :like:
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on November 08, 2021, 10:03:36 PM
Post by: pa_strunk on November 08, 2021, 10:47:45 PM
Post by: EMZ on November 09, 2021, 06:59:44 PM
This Master Craftsman version (the 4th and last generation) was used by the Dutch Air Force (RNLAF) even into the Eighties of the last century. These specific knives were part of the survival kits on board of our F16 fighter jets. At that time the Dutch Air Force had some 213 F16’s at hand. Somewhere in the Eighties the blue alox knives were replaced by a newer version of the Master Craftsman (with dark blue plastic slabs). The old knives were collected to be destroyed. Luckily a few knives survived, as this one did.
When all the old knives were selected it was noticed that none of the knives had a toothpick, but instead ALL knives were equiped with two tweezers and hence NO toothpicks!
The funny thing is that the blue alox knive I now own, has one toothpick with an aluminium head and one with a nickel-silver head. My guess is that toothpicks were easily lost and were replaced with tweezers from the older types of alox Master Craftsman.
In my collection is also a 2nd generation blue alox RNLAF knive. It has its original tweezers (with nickel-silver head) and its original toothpick. This tweezer is slightly longer than the nickel-silver tweezer from the 4th generation knife.
To make it more confusing, the tweezer heads and toothpick head are thinner than the tweezer heads and tooth pick heads that are now in use in all Vic knives. Because the aluminium scales are much thinner than the plastic ones, the standard tweezers and tooth picks will protrude considerable. It is my guess that the tweezers and tooth pick heads were manually made to fit the pockets of the blue alox knives.
Also notice that the old tooth pick is slightly wider than the modern ones.
In my knife I’ve now replaced the nickel-silver tweezers with an adjusted ‘replica’ modern toothpick.
I also noticed some small interesting details:
- The liners next tot he main blade of the blue alox knives are thinner than the liners of the standard, civilian knives with plastic slabs. Due to the rigidity of the aluminium slabs, it could be made thinner.
- The main blade of the 2nd generation is slightly thicker.
- The production date of this 4th generation knife is probably around 1978-1980.
- The 2nd generation is 0.34 millimeter wider.
- The 2nd generation knife is 2 grams heavier.
Post by: EMZ on November 09, 2021, 07:01:32 PM
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on November 09, 2021, 09:41:12 PM
Post by: Farmer X on November 09, 2021, 09:41:33 PM
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on November 09, 2021, 09:45:12 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on November 16, 2021, 11:09:38 AM
My latest knife:
A Wenger Master with Interservice logo
:hatsoff:
Post by: Myron on November 17, 2021, 12:40:19 AM
Myron
Post by: Echotech on November 17, 2021, 06:19:45 AM
Post by: ALEKS ALEKS on November 20, 2021, 06:26:54 PM
An old liner lock was installed on the old knife.
The old liner lock did not have 'press' written on it.
I did not measure the blade width before repairing.
Sincerely, Alexander
Note:
It was DAK who sent it for repairs.
For a long time I put the pads from GAK 111))) I split the pads DAK.
P.S.
The repair result corresponds to knife version №11: " DAK 93 without DE-GM 9305297 Stamp: Victorinox/SWISS MADE/STAINLESS. Liners marked “Liner lock”."
forum post number #460 on: December 09, 2019, 08:26:37 PM
Post by: EMZ on January 07, 2022, 11:15:25 PM
Post by: EMZ on January 07, 2022, 11:26:01 PM
IKS Defensie = Instituut Keuring en Selectie Defensie. Which translates to 'Defence Institute of Assesment and Selection'.
This institute was established after a reorganisation in 2002.
Post by: EMZ on January 07, 2022, 11:37:03 PM
Personeelsvoorziening Koninklijke Landmacht translates to 'Human Recources Services Royal Army'.
Thanks Agamemnon!!
Post by: Osos on January 08, 2022, 07:56:40 PM
And now a real DAK from Victorinox: A Recruit 2.2500 with Eco handles, key ring, no T&T, and reverse handles (Swiss cross at the back side).
Personeelsvoorziening Koninklijke Landmacht translates to 'Human Recources Services Royal Army'.
Thanks Agamemnon!!
Normally @EMZ I would be very jealous, but seller had one more knife, used, but in very good condition, and it is mine :-)
Anyway congratulations!
Also some small update of mine collection. Most of them was described in this topic.
1. Finally I got all set of KLU knives
2. Both Zwanenburg models, 1st and 2nd generation
3. MC1 got also rope cutter to complete set
4. Lineman knives (mainly TL29 and Klein hawkbill blade knife). Also in free time I will make photo of electric knives
5. 93 models, all different
Also a lot's of thx to Agamemnon for support
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220108/6af9d671b1d55da803e6e7c055d4de40.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220108/27fcde6ffd09e4e1123eb162968c2b3b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220108/bcbe7988fed887dbc735143d01746aef.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220108/b8843e2cfd32324fe66c7ef5bab2722f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220108/c3cd1b273349e2ce60328d937af4fadb.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220108/f29ad0d7f7efdce7c25af9f54bdccf10.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220108/a5813a962b09f61b681158d2bb6d6465.jpg)
Post by: Farmer X on January 08, 2022, 09:03:58 PM
MC1 got also rope cutter to complete setI have one of those Schrade automatics (though one issued to U.S. troops). Yours looks pretty good. Hope it held up okay over the years.
Post by: EMZ on January 24, 2022, 01:03:39 PM
Normally @EMZ I would be very jealous, but seller had one more knife, used, but in very good condition, and it is mine :-)
Anyway congratulations!
Also some small update of mine collection. Most of them was described in this topic.
1. Finally I got all set of KLU knives
2. Both Zwanenburg models, 1st and 2nd generation
3. MC1 got also rope cutter to complete set
4. Lineman knives (mainly TL29 and Klein hawkbill blade knife). Also in free time I will make photo of electric knives
5. 93 models, all different
Also a lot's of thx to Agamemnon for support
Dear Osos, I am totally jealous about your DAK's!!! :drool:
Congratulations on your Klu 74 find! :hatsoff: It's the one knife I've still been missing. :rant:
The orange MC1 is beautiful. Once, a long time ago, I had 2 of them, but I had to part hem, because these type of knives are forbidden by the law here in Holland.
Could you please take identifying pictures of the 6 different tang stamps of the 1993 models you have? I have only 5 different tang stamps in my collection, and didn't know a sixt excists.
Also looking forward on the tang stamps of the line man's knives.
Post by: kamakiri on January 24, 2022, 05:29:54 PM
And now, ladies and gentleman, this is the news you've all been waiting for! :woohoo:
DAK afficionado's and all others, fasten your seatbelts!
Here are the first detailed pictures of a genuine, beautiful, Holy Grail Victorinox: The latest version of the blue alox RNLAF Survival Kit Knife !! :drool:
This particular knife is a little bit of an enigma...
In order to shed some light: Look at the tweezers.
Tomorrow I show you more detailed pics.
(https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;ts=1636398948;topic=18395.0;attach=525902;image)
Incredible and beautiful example EMZ! Thanks for sharing and especially the nice, detailed photos! :hatsoff: :cheers:
My date estimate for this knife is late-‘75 to early-‘76 based on all the construction details I can see. Specific tool and part machining are pretty clear. Also good hints in the tang stamps. Even the tweezer helps confirm the range. I’m happy to see such an excellent survivor. :tu:
Post by: Osos on January 28, 2022, 06:55:08 PM
Dear Osos, I am totally jealous about your DAK's!!! :drool:Hi @EMZ
Congratulations on your Klu 74 find! :hatsoff: It's the one knife I've still been missing. :rant:
The orange MC1 is beautiful. Once, a long time ago, I had 2 of them, but I had to part hem, because these type of knives are forbidden by the law here in Holland.
Could you please take identifying pictures of the 6 different tang stamps of the 1993 models you have? I have only 5 different tang stamps in my collection, and didn't know a sixt excists.
Also looking forward on the tang stamps of the line man's knives.
You shouldn't be jealous, because you have some pretty awesome knives that miss in my collection, that I'm jealous for ;-)
Regarding your question, check table below.
Plus for 93 additional models:
1. with gold army logo (black and green scales)
2. Civilian version, centurion from military academy and military school (black and green scales)
3. First version, 92' with slide lock, model picknicker
4. Forester DAK, let say it is also from one "bag" with 93 models
5. Trailmaster DAK
6. English version with broken liner lock
And some others that I have no idea of their existence hehe
Photos of most of them, was shown by Ton.
So much more knives to find... :-)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220128/a4a32b1daabd3084a6b17aa82d91cff9.jpg)
Post by: Agamemnon on February 14, 2022, 12:23:19 PM
My new acquisitions from last week:
Victorinox Spartan Camouflage – no further details;
Buck 318 Parallex – according to the mark on the blade, the knife dates from 2007
Amsterdam. I have some nice information about this:
I already have two “Amsterdam” knives. They all date from the first years after the Second World War and were provided to our Dutch soldiers who went to the Indies.
From one knife I know that the owner was with the 3rd Battalion Regiment Jagers who left for the Indies on October 8, 1946 on board the SS Bloemfontein.
The knife I received last week was also an "Amsterdam", but this knife has the letters K.P.M. on the handle. K.P.M. stands for Koninklijke Paketvaart-Maatschappij (Dutch for Royal Packet Navigation Company). Ships of this company were also used to bring Dutch troops to the Indies.
The previous owner of this knife was on board of one of these transport ships: the SS Bloemfontein which departed for the Indies on 8 October 1946. The owner of the military "Amsterdam" knife and the owner of this "K.P.M. Amsterdam” were on board the same ship.
:hatsoff:
Post by: EMZ on February 14, 2022, 12:57:45 PM
And Aga too.
At this pace of new DAK's, my list of wanna have's is growing faster than my collection is...
Osos, good luck with your bidding ;) I sincerely hope you will be succesful!
Post by: Agamemnon on March 12, 2022, 11:39:44 AM
Yesterday I received my newest acquisition: a Victorinox Master Craftsman – with the inscription “KLU EIGENDOM (PROPERTY)”. Part of Bailout kit – dinghy pack F16 Fighting Falcon (under the ejection seat pilot).
The knife has the well-known blue cellidor grip plates.
Around 1970, the blue aluminum scales were replaced by the more scratch-resistant blue plastic “Cellidor” scales. At a certain point, the military supplier had run out of stock of blue KLu pocket knives and that is why in 1998 110 pieces of these blue KLu pocket knives had to be ordered from Victorinox. These pocket knives were delivered in 1998/1999 and had the engraving / stamping "KLU EIGENDOM" on the blue "Cellidor" handle scale.
Anyway; it's another nice addition, which I had been looking for for years.
:hatsoff:
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on March 12, 2022, 01:56:44 PM
Post by: kamakiri on March 12, 2022, 04:16:36 PM
Impressively rare! Thank you for sharing! :tu:
Post by: Farmer X on March 12, 2022, 04:37:44 PM
Post by: Echotech on March 13, 2022, 12:21:28 AM
Post by: EMZ on March 14, 2022, 11:54:14 AM
As you can see, the one without text (and without the Victorinox shield) is the oldest one.
There's also a specimen that has the text at the reverse side, but I have never seen one, except in a picture.
Post by: kamakiri on March 14, 2022, 06:47:56 PM
Do you have a specific date for the delivery of the first one? Looks clearly late-‘80s. ‘87-‘89 and I think closer to the ‘87-‘88 side. I am curious if it has the bump in the scissor backspring by the scissor tip. A pic of that one flipped over with the tools open might help me narrow it down. I am also supposing that it has a large ‘V’ tang stamp.
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on March 14, 2022, 07:14:46 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 03, 2022, 03:54:14 PM
Snagged a Fosco KL95 off the Dutch “marktplaats” website. I used to have a couple of these before but I sold and gave away all of them, which I regretted afterwards, so this is my redemption. I will keep this one :)
It came in a Wenger Soldier box in which it (of course) doesn’t belong. I call this a win-win, because now I also have a matching box for my ‘83 Wenger Soldier :tu:
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on May 03, 2022, 06:34:08 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 03, 2022, 06:44:31 PM
Nice score, glenfiddich1983! :cheers:
Thanks! :salute:
This is the first knife i’ve bought in months, and I haven’t been around here a lot. I’ve been very busy with other things. But it feels good to be back again :D
Post by: Echotech on May 03, 2022, 10:09:59 PM
Post by: FolderBeholder on May 04, 2022, 01:46:55 AM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on May 06, 2022, 02:30:05 PM
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/hr59bif02m1am7h/2022-05-06%2014.26.35.jpg?raw=1)
Post by: FolderBeholder on May 06, 2022, 02:46:04 PM
To my surprise I found a KLU 65, and to my even bigger surprise I was able to buy it for a very gentle price :)What a treasure! :like:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/hr59bif02m1am7h/2022-05-06%2014.26.35.jpg?raw=1)
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on May 06, 2022, 10:19:47 PM
Post by: Echotech on May 07, 2022, 12:27:59 AM
Post by: Agamemnon on June 04, 2022, 01:46:45 PM
:dunno: :dunno:
Last week I was again looking for funny things on “Marktplaats”.
I see an alox Amefa knife passing by and my first thought was "nothing special, I already have that".
Looked a little closer and enlarged the photo. There is something about the knife, but at first I couldn't 'put my finger on it'. The knife looked very good, brand new actually. The Amefa stamp is clear.
Further down, I looked at the handle and I see it: the KL stamp is missing, there is no year on it either. I did not know this knife, had never seen it before and therefore I do not have it in my collection.
The asking price (€ 15) was reasonable in my opinion and therefore immediately offered the asking price. The offer was accepted. A few days later the knife came in. Looks very good, very happy with my new purchase.
Took a few pictures and asked Amefa (both in the Netherlands and in Germany) whether they could tell anything about the knife.
As usual with Amefa you never get an answer – very disappointing. This 'customer service' is in big contrast to the service that Victorinox provides. It is only logical that we switched to the Victorinox knives.
Me and a few fellow collectors assume that it is probably a civilian pocket knife. I have to say I've never seen an Amefa civilian folding knife, but that doesn't mean anything. There are more knives I don't know.
Additional information is more than welcome. :dunno:
Post by: Myron on June 04, 2022, 05:20:03 PM
Myron
Post by: Agamemnon on June 05, 2022, 12:20:59 PM
Hi Myron,
The first version (1950 until 1970) Amefa knives had a strange can opener – a kind of ‘spike’. These were the Amefa’s with a brown fibre hilt.
The next version (with the alox hilt) didn’t have a can opener at all. In those days (1972, 73 & 74) the Amefa had only three components. We were using the P-38/P-51 can opener.
In the years (1975 until 1982 & 1984) that followed we had the second version of the alox Amefa knives, with four components, including the ‘lobster claw’ can opener. So this was the ‘standard’.
Have a nice weekend.
:hatsoff:
Post by: Myron on June 05, 2022, 03:52:09 PM
Myron
Post by: EMZ on July 06, 2022, 10:49:28 PM
Both have no reverse tang stamp, but as you can see there are some differences between the knives. The Forester has the modified 'PRESS' liner lock, and it has a wider blade.
Both knives are not known to be officially issued. My wild guess is that these are prototypes, or maybe replenishments.
Post by: Myron on July 08, 2022, 03:08:52 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on July 09, 2022, 11:01:07 AM
Well done EMZ :cheers:
I like to think that I already have all variants of the DAK knives and that I can sit back and relax.
Nothing could be further from the truth: regularly a DAK pops up that I don't have, like this one without the "reverse tang stamp". I do have the variant with the “reverse tang stamp – DE-GM 9305297”. (So from before 2006). This means there are more variants than the ones I knew; so I don't know them all. :o
So I will have to intensify my 'hunt' for this missing variant.
Good catch again EMZ and see you next time. :salute:
Good weekend.
:hatsoff:
Post by: EMZ on September 24, 2022, 04:07:40 PM
Post by: Echotech on September 24, 2022, 11:39:23 PM
Post by: bismouth on November 03, 2022, 05:34:40 PM
Any idea of the market value ? Can't find any information except the previous photos on this forum?
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Post by: EMZ on November 03, 2022, 09:08:04 PM
An expert on metalworking told me the aluminium box is rather expensive. These boxes are handmade and welded.
Could you order one, it would costs you at least 50-60 Euro, probably more.
However if you find this complete survival kit on the 'marktplaats' (market place) web page it will be around 50 Euro. I think...
Post by: Farmer X on November 04, 2022, 01:01:00 AM
Post by: Pete.Z on December 09, 2022, 05:55:18 PM
I knew for sure I should still have my old knife that we had as part of our standard equipment somewhere, and low and behold, today when getting the christmas lights and other junk out for my wife, I found it in a forgotten box on out attic.
My original 1984 DAK, complete with still attached elastic cord we used to keep it tied on our belts.
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on December 10, 2022, 01:54:38 PM
Post by: Myron on December 11, 2022, 12:00:23 AM
Thanks for sharing.
Myron
Post by: Farmer X on December 11, 2022, 05:23:48 AM
Post by: Agamemnon on January 08, 2023, 02:47:21 PM
“10-year itch”
After years of searching, I finally found it: DAK M92 test model. This knife was found in the desk drawer of an retired officer.
In the early 1990s, the period of the 2nd and 3rd type alox DAK (1983 – 1992) came to an end and was phased out.
After issuing 66,150 knives in 1992, we wanted a replacement for the outdated Pioneer model.
Thoughts went out to a slightly larger knife (featuring a 111 mm locking blade). A slide-lock model, introduced in the mid-80s met these specifications.
The Netherlands tested the Victorinox Hunter with 'slide-lock'. This model, however, had a wood saw and there was no need for this in the Netherlands.
The Hunter had the well-known green shell, but no 'Interservice logo' yet.
In the end, the choice did not fall on the Hunter; this in contrast to the UK (RAF Hunter) and Germany (BSG Fliegergruppe / GSG9).
Netherlands chose Model 1992 as DAK 1993 and it served until 2006.
:hatsoff: :hatsoff:
Post by: Barry Rowland on January 08, 2023, 03:15:43 PM
Very cool, and you're fortunate to have kept it! (The U.S Navy never issued me a knife or multi...I had to pay for them out of pocket.)
Post by: Barry Rowland on January 08, 2023, 03:16:18 PM
:hatsoff:
“10-year itch”
After years of searching, I finally found it: DAK M92 test model. This knife was found in the desk drawer of an retired officer.
In the early 1990s, the period of the 2nd and 3rd type alox DAK (1983 – 1992) came to an end and was phased out.
After issuing 66,150 knives in 1992, we wanted a replacement for the outdated Pioneer model.
Thoughts went out to a slightly larger knife (featuring a 111 mm locking blade). A slide-lock model, introduced in the mid-80s met these specifications.
The Netherlands tested the Victorinox Hunter with 'slide-lock'. This model, however, had a wood saw and there was no need for this in the Netherlands.
The Hunter had the well-known green shell, but no 'Interservice logo' yet.
In the end, the choice did not fall on the Hunter; this in contrast to the UK (RAF Hunter) and Germany (BSG Fliegergruppe / GSG9).
Netherlands chose Model 1992 as DAK 1993 and it served until 2006.
:hatsoff: :hatsoff:
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on August 01, 2023, 03:59:04 PM
After YEARS of searching I finally have one! :ahhh
The blue alox Master Craftsman that was made in very limited numbers for the Dutch Air Force and Navy! :woohoo:
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/e36oyia1l390kee5ictf6/2023-08-01-15.40.38.jpg?rlkey=nszqce1j7uevqluyi3xmdrw0l&raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5oayp25w40ktthi31dqgh/2023-08-01-15.43.01.jpg?rlkey=q34fr6nk3yd2hr0fgcucgmrln&raw=1)
Obviously and unfortunately the main blade is missing, but still… since I only paid… wait for it…
42 dollars :ahhh
I can’t really complain about the missing blade :D
Still can’t believe I found this gem!
I am considering sending it in to Victorinox to have a new main blade installed, but I don’t think I will do it. Too afraid this jewel gets lost in the mail or some other doom will befall it… I may not want to tempt my luck on this one.
Post by: EMZ on August 01, 2023, 04:55:08 PM
Am I correct this one has an awl at one side and a Philips at the other side??
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on August 01, 2023, 05:02:17 PM
:hatsoff: :like:
Am I correct this one has an awl at one side and a Philips at the other side??
Uhh.. yes, now that you mention it… I was so happy having found this SAK that I didn’t even realize yet this odd feature :o
Post by: FolderBeholder on August 01, 2023, 05:57:55 PM
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on August 01, 2023, 07:23:34 PM
Post by: jnoxyd on August 01, 2023, 09:51:15 PM
Post by: Farmer X on August 02, 2023, 05:14:57 AM
Post by: Myron on August 03, 2023, 03:17:45 AM
Congratulations on this amazing find, Glenfiddich!
Post by: Gareth on August 04, 2023, 09:46:00 PM
Oh man am I lucky :woohoo:
After YEARS of searching I finally have one! :ahhh
The blue alox Master Craftsman that was made in very limited numbers for the Dutch Air Force and Navy! :woohoo:
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/e36oyia1l390kee5ictf6/2023-08-01-15.40.38.jpg?rlkey=nszqce1j7uevqluyi3xmdrw0l&raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5oayp25w40ktthi31dqgh/2023-08-01-15.43.01.jpg?rlkey=q34fr6nk3yd2hr0fgcucgmrln&raw=1)
Obviously and unfortunately the main blade is missing, but still… since I only paid… wait for it…
42 dollars :ahhh
I can’t really complain about the missing blade :D
Still can’t believe I found this gem!
I am considering sending it in to Victorinox to have a new main blade installed, but I don’t think I will do it. Too afraid this jewel gets lost in the mail or some other doom will befall it… I may not want to tempt my luck on this one.
That's awesome man. Huge congrats on getting that particular white whale. :hatsoff:
Post by: Barry Rowland on August 08, 2023, 04:35:43 AM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on August 28, 2023, 07:13:53 PM
Great find!!! I'd let it be as it is.
I hope I won’t regret it, but this weekend I decided to accept the quote for the blade replacement I got from Victorinox (€18, which is about $19.50). Today I shipped it, together with two other SAKs that I’m turning in for repair.
I realize that I’ll probably get it back with a modern tang stamped blade, but I’d rather have a complete but modern blade than this snapped off no-blade-at-all, it looks a bit sad this way. I just prey this thing doesn’t get lost in the mail between here and Switzerland :ahhh
I packed the SAK very well, actually I think I never packed one so well with four crosswise layers of tape and multiple address labels inside the parcel and attached to the SAK as well :D
Post by: IMR4198 on August 28, 2023, 07:50:50 PM
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on August 29, 2023, 08:45:47 AM
Post by: EMZ on August 29, 2023, 01:46:44 PM
Post by: EMZ on August 29, 2023, 01:54:09 PM
Post by: EMZ on August 29, 2023, 01:55:17 PM
Post by: EMZ on August 29, 2023, 01:58:26 PM
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on August 29, 2023, 02:25:40 PM
Post by: Farmer X on August 30, 2023, 06:20:54 AM
Post by: IMR4198 on August 30, 2023, 04:06:42 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on August 30, 2023, 08:57:13 PM
Post by: EMZ on August 30, 2023, 09:51:04 PM
Yes, it is! It is a genuine item in the "Survival Kit, Escape and Evasion (E&E), NSN 6545-01-534-0894", which is the kits official name.
Post by: Agamemnon on September 03, 2023, 11:47:34 AM
Well done EMZ. Looking good again! - I can see that my collection is not yet complete.
:hatsoff:
@IMR4198:
The KL95 from Fosco is the only knife from the M52 and M61 series that does not have a carrying eye. The quality of Fosco's knives was not up to par and was therefore not used for long. The main problem with knives was consistency; all knives looked different. The back springs don't go all the way back into the blade when it's closed; the notch for the nail are not equal.
:facepalm:
These knives were lost all the time – they were thrown away (even in ditches). So, there aren't that many of them left. :whistle:
Very shortly after issue, the contract was cancelled and the knives were taken back and destroyed. The knife was only issued in 1995.
There are two versions of the KL95 from Fosco: an aluminium (alox) version (1st version) and the stainless steel version (2nd version). The stainless steel Fosco KL 95 is a derivative of the US MIL-K-818-D.
Post by: IMR4198 on September 03, 2023, 12:46:12 PM
Post by: Barry Rowland on September 04, 2023, 05:26:55 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on September 14, 2023, 03:26:19 PM
My latest acquisition: a Victorinox SwissTool Spirit X
This “Spirit” was a 'farewell gift' when the Soesterberg air base was closed in 2008.
Soesterberg Air Base was a military airfield near Soesterberg, between Utrecht and Amersfoort. The airport was the cradle of military aviation in the Netherlands; In 1913, the army's Aviation Department (LVA) made its first flights here. Due to defense cuts, the base was shut down and closed in November 2008.
End as an air base
The dissolution ceremony of the base was on November 12, 2008. The remaining flying squadrons were transferred to Gilze-Rijen air base and the 932 Squadron returned to Gilze-Rijen as a Logistics Squadron. The remaining support squadrons have been disbanded.
:hatsoff:
Post by: Barry Rowland on September 14, 2023, 06:06:03 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on September 14, 2023, 06:54:32 PM
:hatsoff: :hatsoff:
My latest acquisition: a Victorinox SwissTool Spirit X
This “Spirit” was a 'farewell gift' when the Soesterberg air base was closed in 2008.
Soesterberg Air Base was a military airfield near Soesterberg, between Utrecht and Amersfoort. The airport was the cradle of military aviation in the Netherlands; In 1913, the army's Aviation Department (LVA) made its first flights here. Due to defense cuts, the base was shut down and closed in November 2008.
End as an air base
The dissolution ceremony of the base was on November 12, 2008. The remaining flying squadrons were transferred to Gilze-Rijen air base and the 932 Squadron returned to Gilze-Rijen as a Logistics Squadron. The remaining support squadrons have been disbanded.
:hatsoff:
Awesome!
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on September 15, 2023, 08:11:34 AM
Post by: Guardian on September 15, 2023, 10:34:37 AM
Loads of UK military bases closed after the end of the Cold War as well. Most turned into housing estates.
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on November 02, 2023, 08:18:24 PM
I hope I won’t regret it, but this weekend I decided to accept the quote for the blade replacement I got from Victorinox (€18, which is about $19.50). Today I shipped it, together with two other SAKs that I’m turning in for repair.
I realize that I’ll probably get it back with a modern tang stamped blade, but I’d rather have a complete but modern blade than this snapped off no-blade-at-all, it looks a bit sad this way. I just prey this thing doesn’t get lost in the mail between here and Switzerland :ahhh
I packed the SAK very well, actually I think I never packed one so well with four crosswise layers of tape and multiple address labels inside the parcel and attached to the SAK as well :D
Today I got the knife back from Victorinox. I must say I am very happy with the result and glad I decided to send it in for repair. Here are some pictures.
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/rj8w9dy1yl4r579n65ljp/2023-11-02-19.28.59.jpg?rlkey=oyp9f49nkfqr6stb203yq5dkh&raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/9d5nii55yzv9ex2cg7ond/2023-11-02-19.11.43.jpg?rlkey=f3nfywmn7ob4jhgxa97iuh2j7&raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/5aabrk7p3xvdvk5xpfse6/2023-11-02-19.14.00.jpg?rlkey=n0ttm3ofzebao6ni5cuq1eglz&raw=1)
Looking at the tang stamp they even fitted a 1950's main blade and not a current generation blade :like:
I really appreciate Victorinox made that much effort! :hatsoff:
I am not exactly sure in which years these alox Master Craftsmen were issued, but looking at the tang stamp of the original blade that was in it, the blade they replaced it with might even be a bit older than the original one.
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/vxtfre5z4v1haf0me1cs7/2023-11-02-20.11.23.jpg?rlkey=ero8erjixe31ispz3httw0un6&raw=1)
This is the original blade, which indicates that the alox Master Craftsman was issued between 1957 and 1973.
The blade they replaced it with is from 1952 - 1957.
But again: I am really glad they didn't put a newer generation blade in it :)
Post by: IMR4198 on November 02, 2023, 08:26:39 PM
:like:
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on November 02, 2023, 08:28:36 PM
Absolutely fabulous. How could it be any better? Now you never have to show it and say, "Yes it is rare. Too bad the blade is broken off." Congratulations to the craftsmen at Victorinox. They did it right. Best wishes. Gary (IMR)
:like:
I bet the knife was repaired by a Master Craftsman :whistle:
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on November 02, 2023, 10:13:57 PM
Post by: FolderBeholder on November 03, 2023, 02:11:21 AM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on November 03, 2023, 11:24:43 AM
Post by: Gareth on November 03, 2023, 12:14:00 PM
Post by: Myron on November 03, 2023, 02:22:24 PM
Myron
Post by: Echotech on November 04, 2023, 12:51:08 AM
Post by: EMZ on November 08, 2023, 08:28:41 PM
And what a wise decision to send the knife for repair to Switzerland. Well done!
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on November 09, 2023, 09:21:48 PM
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on January 21, 2024, 03:41:18 PM
(https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/oxd0dkkepihqwqcy6v5mu/2024-01-20-12.17.10.jpg?rlkey=63i24wupugcid0dssd8jor9v3&raw=1)
Post by: Rizio Il Ghiro on January 21, 2024, 04:59:33 PM
Post by: Myron on January 21, 2024, 06:03:57 PM
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 21, 2024, 06:44:13 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on January 22, 2024, 02:37:47 PM
My RNAF is a little different, I am still looking for this one. :hatsoff:
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on January 22, 2024, 05:37:16 PM
:hatsoff: Congrats Glenfiddich. We just had to drink a whiskey to our collection.
My RNAF is a little different, I am still looking for this one. :hatsoff:
Thanks :cheers:
The seller on Marktplaats that I bought mine from still didn’t remove the ad, maybe he had more than one for sale?
Post by: EMZ on January 23, 2024, 11:54:11 PM
Does these RNLAF knives have the swiss cross on the other side?
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on January 24, 2024, 10:30:06 AM
Great catch!!!
Does these RNLAF knives have the swiss cross on the other side?
No, the other side is blank.
Post by: EMZ on March 02, 2024, 12:49:50 PM
These knives were given as a souvenir to the MFO personel. Great gift!! Thanks Manfred!
"The mission of the MFO is to supervise the implementation of the security provisions of the Egyptian-Israeli Treaty of Peace and employ best efforts to prevent any violation of its terms."
Post by: EMZ on March 02, 2024, 12:55:35 PM
(Yeah, I got the coin also as a gift for my retirement from another co-worker and good friend. :salute:)
Post by: AzteCypher on March 02, 2024, 09:50:45 PM
Post by: Agamemnon on March 03, 2024, 12:38:36 PM
Beautiful and well-chosen gifts for your retirement. Congratulations and enjoy your free time.
My latest acquisition: a Gerber
Provided as a souvenir to Regional Commando (South) Support Squad in Kandahar, Afghanistan in 2009. 43 Mechbrig supplemented with a platoon from the KCT.
RC(S) is a so-called composite headquarters. This means that there is no 'block replacement' after six or nine months, but that individuals change positions at different intervals.
From November 1, 2008 to November 1, 2009, RCS was under Dutch command of Major General Mart de Kruif.
:hatsoff:
Post by: EMZ on March 05, 2024, 05:01:56 PM