Multitool.org Forum
Outdoor Section => Backwoods Cuisine => Topic started by: Gareth on August 28, 2012, 09:19:04 PM
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Just spotted this and was wondering if anyone had tried one already?
(http://www.esbit.net/tl_files/esbitcontent/products/images/CS585HA_01_Kochset_(Trockenbrennstoff_nicht_im_Lieferumfang_enthalten).jpg)
http://www.esbit.net/product-detail/items/CS585HA-hard-anodized-aluminiium-585ml-cookset.html (http://www.esbit.net/product-detail/items/CS585HA-hard-anodized-aluminiium-585ml-cookset.html)
Esbit's are not the fastest way of heating water (around 7 minutes for 0.5L so I'm told), but I was thinking that throwing some extra dry kindling/twigs on top of the Esbit might speed things up a little. My one slight concern is that the little feet might be plastic and not respond well to having a fire built on top of them. :D Thoughts?
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It certainly looks light. Is it titanium? :)
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I've not seen that set before, but I have used the old standard army esbit/hexi stoves with the standard crusader cup, and to be honest I wasn't impressed. Esbit solid fuel is a good back up IMO, but not a primary. Used in conjuction with a little alcohol stove maybe with esbit tabs for back up, it could be a winner - but I wouldn't want to just take that anywhere
Personal opinion is the money would do more good put away in a drawer to save up for a Jetboil which is the dogs danglies for short trips
Just personal opinion :whistle:
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I wonder if a little homemade meths burner will fit in there? :think:
:D
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If that square burner pot thingy is fixed it could be tricky. Then again there's that tea light candle holder gizmo on a rubber hose thing with seperate reservoir that that bloke makes ... I'm not helping much am I :think:
Tinny? Something like that?
*consults you tube*
Ahh, here we go ....
caution !! Choke hazard !! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7yeJ4n4zt4#)
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That is tiiiiiiiny :D
Thanks Al......I was actually thinking of the ones I made from old aerosol cans :)
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I'm sure they'd work a treat, but not sure how stable they'd be on that tray you put the esbit tabs on?
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It certainly looks light. Is it titanium? :)
says that it is anodised aluminium, about the same weight but better heat conductor. ;)
I wonder if a little homemade meths burner will fit in there? :think:
:D
looks like someone has done it. I'm wondering if he removed the little burner tray? Looks like it is simply screwed in place to me.
Esbit Cookset CS585HA with alcohol stove (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2SJZgWQYLU#)
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:tu:
Looks like it needs a little (http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/sparky_415/hammerc.gif)
:D
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I had another look at this last night, and it seems a few people have run this with alcohol stoves on You Tube. It does appear the burner pans unscrews. There seems to be a few reasonable deals out there on it at the moment too :)
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I may have tried one...or two :D
The tray on mine is riveted on. I cut the bottom of a can (tuna I think..just the right diameter) to make a platform for the mini alky burners I built. I suppose the fuel tray could be removed completely and the tablets placed directly on the bottom of the unit. I've not tried twig burning in it, so I don't know about the feet.
The pot is smaller than what I'd want for a primary cooker...about the same size as a GSI nesting cup for a Nalgene bottle. It's nice as a Brewkit setup though.
I found it performed better with the alky burners if I put a fan grill on top of the stove unit. The extra gap allowed the flames to draw around the pot and not blow out the sides.
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Nice one Dave. :tu: Looking at your pictures it looks like the feet are plastic, right? If so then I would be dubious about building a fire on top of them. Of course they could always be replaced/removed I guess. :)
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Yes, they are plastic. I suppose you could remove them and use it like that...or replace them with metal standoffs.
I used aluminum binding posts (Chicago screws) to add feet to a Trangia 28 windscreen.
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I love the fan grill trivet :tu: Cunning plan :salute:
What's the purpose of that little chap in the middle of the third pic? Simmering ring?
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That would be the tablet platform for the 985ml cookset. The burner for that one is basically a copy of a Trangia with some minor differences.
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Ah, OK. Makes sense now :D
Cheers :tu:
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Well I just got this cookset yesterday (an early Christmas gift from my folks) and I like it. :cheers: I did try boiling a cup of water last night to test things out and it was 'OK' but not great. Not very quick and a single tablet didn't quite manage to bring 350ml of water up to the boil before the tablet ran out.
I still think I'm going to look at replacing the feet and using some wood as additional fuel to pick things up a bit. :tu:
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I don't have experience with many stoves, so my input is limited but I like my esbit. I use it to Cook eggs, and MREs
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Gareth, I’m usually able to get to a boil or at least a “rope of pearls” using one tablet and 400ml of water. Explanation of Chinese Boiling terms here – Boiling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling)
I just ran a test using one Esbit tablet with 350ml and got a rolling boil at 9:14, sustained to 12:29 minutes.
I’ve tried a number of different alcohol burners with the 585. I feel that un-jetted, un-pressurized burners are best suited for it. I’ve tried miniature Penny and Pepsi stoves and experienced overheating and runaway because they got overheated in the small space. The majority of the time the fuel would vaporize too quickly and run out before even “shrimp eyes” was achieved. I’ve also had poor luck with alcohol burners if the pot is sitting on the stand as designed…so I raise it up using a 90mm computer fan grill. You’ll get tall flames the height of the pot. I make sure to align the handles with the large port to avoid melting the insulation…because of the incoming air, the tall flames don’t seem to emerge in that section.
I’ve tried various open cup configurations ranging from an empty tea candle cup to tins filled with various types of insulation. The burner shown in the photo is a 1oz slip top tin filled with a couple of layers of carbon felt. Having the insulation is advantageous because the fuel is held by the felt and spills are avoided. The lid protects the felt for transport and can be used for snuffing.
Using the grill and burner I ran 400ml twice on 1 oz of denatured alcohol.
Rolling boil @ 6:47, runout @ 8:37 minutes
Rolling boil @ 7:05, runout @ 8:18 minutes
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shrimp eyes
about 70-80 °C (155–175 °F) – separate bubbles, rising to top
crab eyes
about 80 °C (175 °F) – streams of bubbles
fish eyes
about 80-90 °C (175–195 °F) – larger bubbles
rope of pearls
about 90-95 °C (195–205 °F) – steady streams of large bubbles
raging torrent
rolling boil, swirling and roiling
I like those. :D I think I got it to fish eyes before I ran out of fuel. Now I admit I wasn't timing it but I doubt very much that I got anywhere near 12 minutes out of it. :think: Also the air temp (about 4deg C) and breeze could easily have affected the results.
I'll definitely give it another go though, I've got quite a few tablets to get through. ;) I've also got a couple of meths burners to try as well. I wonder if a standard Trangia burner will sit nicely in it? Need to give that a go as well. :)
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OK so I've just had another go with the tablets and the results were a little better. Still fell short of actually managing a full rolling boil but was certainly hot enough for a nice cup of coffee. Again I was using 350ml of water, a single tablet and the temperature was 10deg C with a light breeze. I suspect it's the breeze that's scuppering my attempts to reach 100deg C. :think: I did at least get roughly 12 minutes of burn time from the tablet.
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Esbit is possibly more sensitive to wind than alcohol. Using a secondary windscreen made from heavy foil is worthwhile. I get disposable foil chafing dish covers from the party supply store.
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I'm quite surprised that a rolling boil isn't reached after 12 mins :-\ I'd defo try the secondary windshield that Spork suggested :tu: Disposable foil serving trays for buffets/BBQs work well and are cheap enough at supermarkets
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Some kind of wind screen sounds like an excellent idea. I'll knock something up and do another test. :)
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...I wonder if a standard Trangia burner will sit nicely in it? Need to give that a go as well. :)
I just checked against the 985 cookset. Although it will fit inside, I don't think it is tall enough...even with the tray removed you'll only have about 10mm of free space to the top of the stand. That will be less once the pot is in place. In comparison, the 985 set measures about 32mm from top of simmer cap to top of stand.
Factory distance for a Trangia 27 is about 19mm
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The wind screen I made is 3-1/8" (8cm) high and can be stowed rolled-up inside. It is shorter than what I would want on a solid surface but in actual practice the stand can be placed in a shallow depression scooped in the dirt to effectively increase the coverage.
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I've made a shield pretty much exactly the same size now. Kitchen foil folded over several times makes for a surprisingly sturdy piece of metal.
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...I wonder if a standard Trangia burner will sit nicely in it? Need to give that a go as well. :)
I just checked against the 985 cookset. Although it will fit inside, I don't think it is tall enough...even with the tray removed you'll only have about 10mm of free space to the top of the stand. That will be less once the pot is in place. In comparison, the 985 set measures about 32mm from top of simmer cap to top of stand.
Factory distance for a Trangia 27 is about 19mm
Yeah, I see what you mean. :-\ Very, very little clearance between the burner and pot bottom, even with the simmer ring in place I could easily imagine flames licking everywhere. Might still light it up and see though. :D
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OK third test now done. SUCCESS! With an air temperature of about 10deg C and little to no breeze (plus the home made wind shield) I got 350ml of water to a rolling boil in around 6 minutes. :o Obviously this kit is very wind sensitive but if you can keep it sheltered then it works just fine. :tu:
One thing to note though; watch out for the sticky black residue left on the bottom of the pan from the bruning fuel tablet. :-\
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I knew you could do it :D All it takes is a bit of experience and proper management.
I've been playing with an Esbitmizer (http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/esbit-esbitmizer.php) lately and have managed to cook rice (1/2 cup plus 3/4 cup water) on one and a half tablets. Besides getting it to a boil there was a simmering time of 15 minutes.
The residue cleans up fairly easily with hot water.
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Glad to hear you've got it running properly :tu:
One thing to note though; watch out for the sticky black residue left on the bottom of the pan from the bruning fuel tablet. :-\
An old ex-army guy once told me he rubbed soap on the bottom of the pot before cooking, and often just rubbing the pot in dirt/grass after would fetch the vast majority off .... I never tried it though
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The gunk does come off the pot very easily, but I'd not fancy trying to get it off clothes.
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I knew you could do it :D All it takes is a bit of experience and proper management.
I've been playing with an Esbitmizer (http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/esbit-esbitmizer.php) lately and have managed to cook rice (1/2 cup plus 3/4 cup water) on one and a half tablets. Besides getting it to a boil there was a simmering time of 15 minutes.
The residue cleans up fairly easily with hot water.
Nice set up !
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So, just a couple of years after I started talking about it I finally got around to getting rid of the plastic feet. :whistle:
If there's one thing my garage isn't short of, it's chips of wood and shavings.
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss260/gareth_SAKs/Cooking%20and%20fires/DSC_0069_zps1ooqmedu.jpg)
A little fire was easy to get going and you can see the bolts I've used to replace the plastic feet.
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss260/gareth_SAKs/Cooking%20and%20fires/DSC_0071_zpsif8lmjil.jpg)
Easiest way I found to keep it fed was to take large curls of wood off and feed them in the opening.
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss260/gareth_SAKs/Cooking%20and%20fires/DSC_0074_zpsl2azcrxb.jpg)
Start to finish (boiling water for a cup of coffee) took around 15 minutes, but that includes a bit of faffing about getting the right sized pieces of wood to feed it.
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss260/gareth_SAKs/Cooking%20and%20fires/DSC_0077_zpsjeenjxcm.jpg)
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A least this necro was a useful one ::)
Perhaps raising the pot up a bit with a fan grill would lower the time a bit...increase the draft and allow more flame contact.
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A least this necro was a useful one ::)
Perhaps raising the pot up a bit with a fan grill would lower the time a bit...increase the draft and allow more flame contact.
I'd forgotten about that suggestion you made (well, it was a few years ago) and I do definitely think it's a good one. :tu:
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I dug mine out for a play...16oz of water and gel fuel...
12:51 to rolling boil in normal position...9:03 raised on a grill. I do need to make a taller windscreen for it...the one that stows inside is too low when used on a solid surface.
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I've been trying mine with some Dragon Fire gel fuel and with some meths, both just put in a old air rifle pellet tin. I didn't take any exact times, but the meths had 350ml of water up to a rolling boil in around 8 minutes, the Dragon Fire took nearly twice that.
I did go looking at the back of an old PC I had kicking around, but it doesn't have that style of fan grill. :-\
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I'm using ethanol based chafing fuel...fairly inexpensive from the party supply store.
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I set up a new tin...a 1oz sliptop. The ideal behind the row of holes is to allow air to enter at the base of the flames below the rim. The thought behind this is the flames don't dance about as wildly because of air flowing over the rim. In this case it was only mildly successful as the hole size was limited by the tin. The pic shows the gel soon after lighting...the flames did get larger as it heated up.
I didn't time this run, but it got 16oz to a rolling boil on 5/8oz (by weight) of gel. I've been weighing the fuel so I can visually estimate how much to fill the tin.
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Nice idea. Another one I might steal. ;)
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Tried and tested myself, coat the outside with dish washing liquid before use and the soot comes off easy as pie after use. :tu:
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I set up a new tin...a 1oz sliptop. The ideal behind the row of holes is to allow air to enter at the base of the flames below the rim. The thought behind this is the flames don't dance about as wildly because of air flowing over the rim. In this case it was only mildly successful as the hole size was limited by the tin. The pic shows the gel soon after lighting...the flames did get larger as it heated up.
I didn't time this run, but it got 16oz to a rolling boil on 5/8oz (by weight) of gel. I've been weighing the fuel so I can visually estimate how much to fill the tin.
Just tried this myself and had pretty much the same result. Works well to start with but gets bigger after a few minutes.
I have also ordered some fan grills though. :D
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Interesting to see the different ways people are using these. I also have one, and I really like how small, light and simple it is. Good to see that wood works in it. I might just replace the feet on mine so I can use wood as an alternative fuel. Normally I use hexamine: it's foolproof, which is good for me :) And cheap if you find a good army surplus shop. I find I get a boil on 2 quarters of an army hexi block with the pot around half full, and another quarter gets a long enough boil to do some quick-cook pasta or noodles. Cooking times using hexamine are all about surface area I think. Half an army hexi is the same weight as 1 Esbit, but split into 2 quarters and stood on edge it burns faster due to the greater surface area.
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I tried it burning wood in a strong breeze and I've got to say it was a pain. Even before my wind shield blew away it was tough to keep a hot enough fire fed to get the water boiling. I certainly wouldn't want to rely on the fire idea alone.
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Interesting to see the different ways people are using these. I also have one, and I really like how small, light and simple it is. Good to see that wood works in it. I might just replace the feet on mine so I can use wood as an alternative fuel. Normally I use hexamine: it's foolproof, which is good for me :) And cheap if you find a good army surplus shop. I find I get a boil on 2 quarters of an army hexi block with the pot around half full, and another quarter gets a long enough boil to do some quick-cook pasta or noodles. Cooking times using hexamine are all about surface area I think. Half an army hexi is the same weight as 1 Esbit, but split into 2 quarters and stood on edge it burns faster due to the greater surface area.
I agree with the increased surface area theory. I've split Esbit tabs in half myself...placed with a small gap between the pieces. It seems easier to light with a match laid in the gap too.
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Dirty sock coffee :D - https://ineedcoffee.com/brewing-coffee-coffee-sock/
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Looks tasty. :D
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Just so happens that I got the grill through today. The difference it makes in boil times is extraordinary. It's most definitely now part of the kit.
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Not done any time trials yet but the holes in the side of the burner try definitely seem to bring the meths up to temperature faster.
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Just so happens that I got the grill through today. The difference it makes in boil times is extraordinary. It's most definitely now part of the kit.
Makes me wonder if the people who design these things ever test them at all :P
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Just so happens that I got the grill through today. The difference it makes in boil times is extraordinary. It's most definitely now part of the kit.
Makes me wonder if the people who design these things ever test them at all :P
Sadly I don't think I've got any more Esbit tablets left to see if the grill improves their use.