Multitool.org Forum
Tool Talk => Swiss Army Knights Forum => Topic started by: hiraethus on February 05, 2018, 10:15:11 AM
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Links to MTo SAK dating and identification resources:
Note: Check the most recent posts in the threads for the latest version of the information.....
Dating Resources
Date your Vic SAKs based on tool evolution (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51872.0.html) - Huntsman
Pictorial Officer's and Soldier's knife evolution (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,79865.msg1819601.html) - Ulli
Advertising SAKs with year stamps to help dating (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,70953.0.html) - Ulli
Victorinox SAK dating info (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,47699.0.html) - detron
Victorinox SAK dating spreadsheet (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,62019.0.html) - detron
Wenger chronology (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,37957.0.html) - North Man
Creation of the 91mm Evolution Blog and Phillips dating (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,14646.0.html) - Ninjaz (SAAMs)
Dating in the '70s using catalogues (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,85900.0) - kamakiri
SAKWiki Tang Stamp page (https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Victorinox+Tang+Stamp+Guide) - with images, evolution and dates - updated by Max and the MTo team
Tool / Feature Specific Resources
Victorinox tang stamps (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50014.0.html) - Ulli
Wenger tang stamps (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,70421.0.html) - Ulli
SAKWiki Tang Stamp page (https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Victorinox+Tang+Stamp+Guide) - with images and evolution - Repeat of the link in the above section
Let's date the changing of the camping sign (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,72921.0.html) - Frater Martin
Writing an article about the magnifying lens, can you help me out? (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,74378.0.html) - Mactire404
Evolution of wood saws (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,76257.0.html) - MiniChamp
Victorinox scale variations and evolution (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,82676.msg2005758.html#msg2005758) - jazzbass
SAK Production Errors (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,82832.0.html) - kamakiri
Awl evolution ..... and many other interesting topics (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,80164.msg1844561.html#msg1844561) (Reply 36) - kamakiri
Evolution of, and dating, the Grand Prix Inlay (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,82626.msg2001446.html#msg2001446) - kamakiri
Blade, scissor, saw comparisons (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,86355.0.html) - Echotech
Front and back tool pairings (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,91408.msg2441463.html#msg2441463) - Dave Zell and the MT.o team
SAK Model Resources
SAKWiki (http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php) - very helpfully suggested by dks
SAK Selector (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,5898.0.html) - link to forum topic
Journey through the 91mm Family (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,82560.0.html) - Max Stone
91mm SAK Family Trees (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,81456.0.html) - Max Stone
111mm SAK Family Tree (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,81488.0.html) - Max Stone
84mm model relationships (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,73597.0.html) - LeaF
91mm model relationships (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,56085.0.html) - LeaF
Model Posters by SAK length - NeleDo - See bottom of appropriate SAKWiki menu page eg 91mm (https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Victorinox+91mm) -
Side-by-side SAK comparisons (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,71217.0.html) - FolderBeholder
Vintage SAK Club (http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51152.0.html) - M0rkoni
Exploded SAK images (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,81046.0.html) - Craggus2000
Pioneer knowledge book (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,18265.0.html) - Fronta
Other countries that issue SAKs to troops (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,28009.0.htm) - Guardian
Victorinox 91mm pouch sizes by model and layer (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,73606.0.html) - Little Tinker
Swisstool Resources
Different Swisstool plier heads, the truth (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,2463.0.html) - Dunc
Swisstools the different models (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,1575.0.html) - Dunc
External sites
SAAM's 91mm tool evolution site (http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php) - One of the first, and a very popular, pictorial blog showing tool evolutions and dates. Creation of this site is discussed in one of the links in the first section of this post. Note: Unfortunately this link/website appears to be unavailable - We are investigating
Victorinox Chronology [pdf] (https://sakwiki.com/tiki-download_file.php?fileId=3735&display=true.pdf) - A document from Victorinox on tool evolution - Note: Not all dates are correct!!
sakhome (http://www.sakhome.com/) - A private blog containing very detailed and interesting SAK information
Victorinox: Everything you need to know about Multi-tools and cutlery [pdf] (https://sakwiki.com/tiki-download_file.php?fileId=3727&display=true) - A very interesting document from Victorinox on several Swiss Army Knife topics
Les couteaux du soldat de l'armée suisse (https://www.couteaux-du-soldat-suisse.ch/J01/index.php/en/) - The definitive site on Soldier models. From French enthusiasts. English version via this link
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Thanks for this H... nice to have it compiled all in one place... So far been using Ulli’s tang stamp chart and Saam’s tool evolution to date SAKs
If I’m not mistaken, Ulli also shared a chart of Victorinox and Wenger Shield Logos used on scales... just can’t find it...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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:salute:
Good shout on ulli's Wenger info. This one, I presume: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,70421.0.html
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Also added Advertising Saks with Year-Stamps to Help Date Tools and Stamps: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,70953.0.html
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This site is also useful sometimes : http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php
I have no idea which superpower is behind it
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Ahhh... Thanks H :hatsoff:
Can’t wait for it to be stickied...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Added a few more links to the first post. I'll tidy it up later.
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This demonstrates the issue with being able to go back and edit your posts (there was a thread about this a few days ago) - now my post which was insightful and very useful appears to be the post of someone who dis not read the OP post.
I request to be acknowledged for my contribution !! :viking: :viking: :viking: :viking: :viking: :duel: :duel: :duel: :duel: :duel: :duel: :duel: :duel: :bnghd: :bnghd: :bnghd: :bnghd: :bnghd: :crash: :crash: :crash: :crash: :crash:
:)
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better now?
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:2tu: :2tu: :2tu: :2tu: :2tu: :2tu: :2tu: :2tu: :2tu: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
Proves what children have known for centuries :
If you scream and cry and make a scene you get your own way :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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There is a document by Victorinox titled "Everything you need to know about Multi-tools and cutlery" which is currently available for download at https://www.nyttigbras.dk/nblibrary/victorinox-everything-you-need-to-know-about-multi-tools-and-cutlery.pdf
It contains a lot of relevant information and may be appropriate for linking here. In particular, page B8 of this document has what appears to be a polished version of the "Victorinox Chronology" document. I attach a PDF file with just this page.
Also, the following is an excellent resource on Swiss soldier knives: https://www.couteaux-du-soldat-suisse.ch/J01/index.php/en/
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Thanks MiniChamp; links added to the first post. :tu:
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Nice Work!!! :like: :like:
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Thanks for putting our dating threads in a sticky Hiraethus - What an honour !! :tu:
Should we be putting a wee note in the first post above, or even in the first post of each original thread to remind readers to check the later pages of the thread for the latest version of the document
Certainly my first version is way, way inferior to the latest one!
Or even copy the latest version to the first post - Maybe not the best option as that means on-going work ???
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:salute:
They're a great resource, and deserve to be widely used. :like:
I'll add a note about using the latest versions to the first post.
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:woohoo:
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FolderBeholder's Side-by-side SAK comparisons (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,71217.0.html)
I just clicked into this thread for the first time and I'm deeply touched and honored to see my topic amongst your list of such fine resources.
Thank you.
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Hey MiniChamp
Thanks for the 'Everything you Needed to Know' link and document - I had never seen that before - It's great :cheers:
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Nice! Great set of links!
And a good reminder too :facepalm:
I still have a pocket identification guide in the making.
Might just continue that when I'm back home.
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Hey MiniChamp
Thanks for the 'Everything you Needed to Know' link and document - I had never seen that before - It's great :cheers:
You’re welcome! Since I have no idea how stable is the link I provided, I wonder if it's possible to make this document available on SAKWiki. :think:
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I just clicked into this thread for the first time and I'm deeply touched and honored to see my topic amongst your list of such fine resources.
Thank you.
You're very welcome. It's a great thread and full of good info that happened to catch my eye while looking for SAK comparisons. :tu:
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Great info, but there is no way to identify on what year my swisstool was made???
:climber:
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Try the information on the plier heads in the History section
http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=SwissTool#History
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Great info, but there is no way to identify on what year my swisstool was made???
:climber:
there's also this very thorough thread
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,2463.0.html
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This forum is just the best, ain't it? :tu: :salute:
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This forum is just the best, ain't it? :tu: :salute:
no doubt :cheers:
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This forum is just the best, ain't it? :tu: :salute:
Amen brother.
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First post updated with links that were previously stickies - cleaning up the front page of the Swiss Army Knights Forum. :salute:
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Very neat !! :tu:
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Hi Guys
The list at the top of this thread was getting a bit long - So I have organised it into sections
Any suggestions/comments/feedback gratefully received
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I have organised it into sections
Any suggestions/comments/feedback gratefully received
I believe that "Ulli's Advertising SAKs with year stamps" belongs in "Dating Resources."
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Thanks MC - Agree - :tu: - Fixed
PS. I have not forgotten the Wiki actions you have for me!!
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Thanks MC - Agree - :tu: - Fixed
Cool! :hatsoff:
PS. I have not forgotten the Wiki actions you have for me!!
:popcorn:
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Hello Everyone,
There is a new Book out for Swiss Soldiers Knifes from this year.
It is in german and contains a lot of Informations. Therefore it is not cheap (Fr. 100.-).
It is quite rare at the moment and only to get from the author (which I happend to know).
So, it is hard to get and I was lucky to get some.
The Name is: Das Schweizer Soldatenmesser.
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Thanks - Looks interesting
My German almost covers the cover - But not much more - English version would be nice
But Wow 100 fr (chf?) - That;s expensive - I guess it is self-published1
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You are kind of right, it is was printed in a low number and sold over a e-bay like platform in switzerland.
We will see how it is developing. But I think the 100.- will not go down any time soon, or if there will be an english version.
But the author will develop the book.
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A new book is always cool! What is new in it compared to the previous ones? By the way, what does it say about knives with SMV / E and SMV / W stamps?
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A new book is always cool! What is new in it compared to the previous ones? By the way, what does it say about knives with SMV / E and SMV / W stamps?
There is a Section about those Blades with the one Letter Mark. There is E, W, B, R, and II.
Sertain is, that E is Elsener and W is Wenger. B and R is not prooven, but could be Bühler and Rietmüller. Who is behind the the II Mark is unknown.
On the Soldiers Knives those Blades where used for replacement. If a Knife was repaired in a cerain time (around 1908 to 1920) they used replacement Blades with those short Stamps.
Another Section is about the SMV Marks.
There are two different SMV Marks. Those where Special Runs for the anniversary of the Swiss Master Knivemakers Assosiation. They where given to the Members of the Guilde.
Probbably for an early anniversary and a later one. E Knives where produced by Elsener and W ones by Wenger.
If there is the need of further Informations for Swiss Soldiers Knives, I am Happy to assist.
But you have to bear with my english, I am still learning.
I Put the first 4 Pages of the Content here:
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Here the 5. Page
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Thanks for the answer! I’d like to see site according this book, something like well known this one:
https://www.couteaux-du-soldat-suisse.ch/J01/index.php/en/
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Here the 5. Page
Hello SAK118!
Can I ask you one more question please? Here’s mod.1901 by Forges L&C Vallorbe with marking on handles 1911 and 238966. I guess 238966 can be a serial number of Rubin-Schmidt rifle (made in 1899) but why year (?) 1911 this case? End of army service ? Maybe these marks were made after the service for sentimental reason (btw tools are nickel plated like many knives from later period). What do you think? Thank you!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210529/782a9b6445bfb24da9b5554dcbac0638.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210529/1acaa767097cb201474f03e044e79fee.jpg)
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Sorry for the delay.
The Number is the Rifle Number for sure. The 1911 I don't know.
There are a few possible answers. But I miss the Weapons control mark. It should be where the 1911 Mark is.
So I think it is a civil knife which was used in the service and the solder maked it for identification.
That is the most possible answer.
In case of the book, the secons edition is out now. This is in german and english now.
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For anyone who is interested, here are the contents of the 3th edition of "The Swiss Soldiers Knives"
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Thank you, SAK118. New book version looks really cool, thanks for sharing.
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Bloody Hell - Nearly 400 pages - :o - That is a lot of information
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Bloody Hell indeed. It was a lot of work to collect all the informations and put them together.
The price of the Book is $111.-
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Hello there,
I’ve been trying for a week to identify one of my dads vintage Wenger, he passes away ten years ago so I can’t ask him.
The main reason I’m having difficulty is that the main blade is not one of the usual ones and the small blade (almost like a watch opener) appears to be brass
If anyone knows what it is that would be amazing coz I’m going crazy with this one and my research is getting me no where
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Hello there,
I’ve been trying for a week to identify one of my dads vintage Wenger, he passes away ten years ago so I can’t ask him.
The main reason I’m having difficulty is that the main blade is not one of the usual ones and the small blade (almost like a watch opener) appears to be brass
If anyone knows what it is that would be amazing coz I’m going crazy with this one and my research is getting me no where
Similar to the Wenger Graft 06 (https://rusknife-com.translate.goog/topic/3533-%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%B8-wenger-%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B8-graft/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui) maybe?
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Wow - Nice research Zoidy - You beat SAKWiki and hit the bulls eye.
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Bloody Hell indeed. It was a lot of work to collect all the informations and put them together.
The price of the Book is $111.-
Hi all,
Just a quick note to say I was lucky to get a copy of Stephan's new book. It is an amazing collection of information and an obvious work of passion -- a must-have for the serious or casual collector of Swiss soldier SAKs.
Myron
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That does look like a ‘must have’ - how did you manage to get hold of a copy, Myron?
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Hi Henry,
I sent the author a PM, if I recall correctly. While we were conversing by PM, a friend in Switzerland reached out completely by coincidence to say he'd bought a couple copies and did I want one, so I ended up with edition no. 2, signed by the author.
It's really an amazing work. Just typing and proofreading the text alone must amount to hundreds of hours, and of course I think he published it in more than one language.
Good luck finding a copy.
Myron
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..
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As a side note. To the U.K. about 40 Franks.
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Thanks Myron and SAK 118 - I’ll be in touch!
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Hello SAK118!
Can I ask you one more question please? Here’s mod.1901 by Forges L&C Vallorbe with marking on handles 1911 and 238966. I guess 238966 can be a serial number of Rubin-Schmidt rifle (made in 1899) but why year (?) 1911 this case? End of army service ? Maybe these marks were made after the service for sentimental reason (btw tools are nickel plated like many knives from later period). What do you think? Thank you!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210529/782a9b6445bfb24da9b5554dcbac0638.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210529/1acaa767097cb201474f03e044e79fee.jpg)
Got an answer to my old question today. In his wonderful new video, Elsi Nox shows documents that the soldiers of the Swiss army at that time usually turned in knives at the end of their service and then the knives were issued again. So the first owner of my mod.1901 (mod.1890 ver.2) marked the handle with his rifle number from 1899 and the subsequent owner marked 1912, possibly the year of his service .
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220523/ddc9b69bf2ea8df4e407717a92b35474.jpg)
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Amazing - Great info Jnoxd and elsinox
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Here you can see a work in Spanish fórum that collects information to identify our sak
https://armasblancas.mforos.com/933172/13017243-victorinox-como-identificar-act-6-12-2022/ (https://armasblancas.mforos.com/933172/13017243-victorinox-como-identificar-act-6-12-2022/)
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Thanks for all the detailed work/info!
:salute: :tu:
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The Victorinox chronology pdf link doesn't work. At least for me, it gets me to spam pages
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:dunno: :rant:
Someone please look into Andrew's question ??
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The link works fine for me, it refers to the page (4shared) to download the document. No problem.
https://www.4shared.com/office/_zjL1d57fa/Victorinox_-_FAB.html
Can someone try this link?
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The link works fine for me, it refers to the page (4shared) to download the document. No problem.
https://www.4shared.com/office/_zjL1d57fa/Victorinox_-_FAB.html
Can someone try this link?
Both links working for me. :cheers:
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Hi all,
Regarding the Victorinox SAK Chronology/Evolution Document
I tried the link from the first screen and my company's security blockers kicked in
I also could not get the link above to work.
Soooo.....
Fortunately, I had a copy of the document on my PC, so uploaded it to SAKWiki - Then updated the link on the first page to SAKWiki
Much better place for it - as now the doc is in our Wiki, we should not loose it again via some dodgy internet link ;) :D
Here's the link too for reference:
https://sakwiki.com/tiki-download_file.php?fileId=3735&display=true
EDIT PS. Did the same for the "Everything you need to know.............' doc
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:tu:
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Both links working for me. :cheers:
:salute:
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Hey Team
The amazing SAAMs pictorial tools evolution website that was the starting point for so many of us on tool evolution - seems to have disappeared :o :cry:
This is the link from the first page of this thread
http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php
Anybody know why? ??? What happened or whether it is accessible elsewhere? :think:
Seems like a couple of the other external links have gone too :(
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Huntsman- I'm getting the can't be reached messages for the link above too.
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Wayback Machine could help but i have no idea how that works. Its great shame that many of these sites have disappeared over time without warnings.
Only Tools Matters
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I found the page on archive.org wayback machine. I downloaded the webpage from april 4, 2023. Just plug your web address into the search box and you will get a list of months. Best wishes. G
;)
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
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:tu: :tu:
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I found the page on archive.org wayback machine. I downloaded the webpage from april 4, 2023. Just plug your web address into the search box and you will get a list of months. Best wishes. G
;)
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Did you download all pages?
Only Tools Matters
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Hi Antti,
I don't know how many pages there are actually. Best wishes. G
;)
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There is bit more if click those links on left side, i downloaded those 91mm tool evolution, 108mm, SwissChamp, monster 58m and swisscard pages
Only Tools Matters
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Good job, Antti. Best wishes. G
:D
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Yes there are other links. The main page downloads and saves fine. If you download for example, the 108 link it will be saved as a .php file. My computer won't open that file type. I don't really care enough to find something that will open that. Still interesting. Best wishes. G
:-\
I saved all as pdf, i dowloaded those with my phone.
Only Tools Matters
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:tu: :tu:
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Afternoon! Is anyone able to provide resources to evaluate potential value of my Victorinox Switzerland Stainless Rostfrei Red SWK? Appreciate any guidance.
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Hello
Welcome to MT.o
What is an SWK?
And what model is you knife? ie What tools does it have?
SAKWiki can help you find the model if you don't know
Checking a knife of same model and age on ebay is usually a good way to go
You can also check recently sold.
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Thanks for the info links !