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Tool Talk => Edged Tools => Topic started by: ReamerPunch on April 11, 2018, 03:41:24 PM

Title: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 11, 2018, 03:41:24 PM
Just saw this.
(https://i.imgur.com/jOiOPR9.jpg)
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Wspeed on April 11, 2018, 03:42:50 PM
Nanny state here we come  :rant: :ahhh :ahhh
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Aloha on April 11, 2018, 03:44:28 PM
 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: hiraethus on April 11, 2018, 03:55:43 PM
[deleted a bunch of stuff that probably shouldn't be on here]

Yes, things are probably going to get more restrictive.  Rules on locking and one-hand opening knives are likely to be tightened along with new stop and search policies and criminalising knives that are currently held legally.  The UK Border Force are already seizing flippers on their way into the country as flick knives even though they're perfectly legal to own, carry and use.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: captain spaulding on April 11, 2018, 04:18:22 PM
Saying there is never a reason to carry a knife is a completely ridiculous statement.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 11, 2018, 04:26:31 PM
Reading the mayor's statement, one would think it is forbidden to carry a knife at all.
It's been a while since I last heard about it, but I thought the law was, you're allowed to carry a knife that does not lock and have a blade 2.5" or shorter.
Is a new bill being discussed?
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: VICMAN on April 11, 2018, 04:41:37 PM
Saying there is never a reason to carry a knife is a completely ridiculous statement.

I agree with you captain spaulding!
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: hiraethus on April 11, 2018, 04:42:48 PM
Current rules are that they must be non-locking and less than 3" unless you have good reason.  That won't change.  But the government are proposing to restrict sales and redefine flick knives (which are currently illegal to own) to include one-hand openers (flippers, maybe thumbstuds, etc.).

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/offensive-and-dangerous-weapons-new-legislation
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/651830/Offensive_and_Dangerous_Weapons-Consultation-.pdf
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/651760/IA_knives.pdf

Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: dks on April 11, 2018, 04:53:54 PM
I posted this a few days ago too.

I understand that he is a very unusual/controversial figure, not being a typical white anglo saxon protestant as many would expect the mayor of London to be.

His statement is not legally binding, but it does carry a lot of weight. After all he is the leader of Londoners, an elected politician leader, and his opinion represents the views of the voters that elected him.  Maybe this is what the majority wants and we just can not see it.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Nix on April 11, 2018, 05:37:27 PM
A tragic and simple-minded response to a tragic event. Sorry, UK'ers! (We're probably not far behind.)  :cheers:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: pfrsantos on April 11, 2018, 06:11:41 PM
It's the easy way. Blame it on the tools. Like I said some time ago, if someone gets killed with a 2x4, wood will be prohibited... It will be easy to recognize terrorists, they have trees in their gardens!

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Dean51 on April 11, 2018, 06:55:49 PM
Current rules are that they must be non-locking and less than 3" unless you have good reasonThat won't change.  But the government are proposing to restrict sales and redefine flick knives (which are currently illegal to own) to include one-hand openers (flippers, maybe thumbstuds, etc.).

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/offensive-and-dangerous-weapons-new-legislation
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/651830/Offensive_and_Dangerous_Weapons-Consultation-.pdf
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/651760/IA_knives.pdf

Good reason is a very vague and scary term, when someone with a different view point is deciding your fate.
That won't change for now. One step at a time, that's how it works.
There is no maybe, new definitions will be broad, and allow authorities room to interpret new designs.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 11, 2018, 07:05:07 PM
Dramatic background music intensifies
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Dean51 on April 11, 2018, 07:06:19 PM
This is a subject that needs to be discussed freely.
It is impossible to discuss this subject with out being political in some way.
So I'll just pull quotes out of the links provided in an earlier post.
Good luck to all those soon to be affected by this.

1. targeted stop and searches.
Targeting habitual knife carriers. (Once you get caught with a legal for now SAK You'll be targeted every time you are seen out in public.) “After all “No excuses: There is never a reason to carry a knife.”
Weapon sweeps.
2. We  want  to  create  a  new  offence  aimed  at  the  possession  of  such  offensive  weapons, 
whether  in  public  or  private.
3. Owners  of  the  offensive  weapons  falling  under  the legislation  will  need  to  surrender  their weapons or  justify  that  a  relevant  defence  applies  if  charged  with  possession  of  an  offensive weapon. (I'm  betting there will be no justification) It's not a tool it's a weapon.
“For example we would not wish to criminalize a display in a museum. However, subject to these exceptions, we see no case for such dangerous weapons to be in someone’s home and possession. Even if the owner of the weapon in question has no intention at all of using it, there is a risk that they may be targeted by criminals intending to steal it.”
 :assimilate: 
4. Zombie knives ? (That will cover any thing not mentioned in the following.)
5. Updating the definition of a flick knife. (You better get busy tightening those pivots.)
6. Similarly the Government is of the view that the current legislative definition of flick knives in the Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act 1959 is outdated as it refers to the mechanism that activates the blade being in the handle. We propose to amend the definition to ensure that new designs also fall under the definition of flick knife in the legislation.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: cody6268 on April 11, 2018, 07:14:26 PM
I find it quite ridiculous that he's mentioning (and targeting) pocketknives when the London attacks were carried out with ceramic kitchen knives. 

I don't like to make statements, but I believe this gentleman stands for the terrorists more than his constituents.

When I look at weapons laws, the reason I think that they try that first, instead of going after the real problems such as gangs, terrorism, and mental illness is that they think the civil rights of those people are more important than the safety of everyone else, so they go after weapons, despite the fact it does almost nothing to those who want to kill or harm innocent people (who are going to use whatever they can get there hands on, not just guns or knives), and instead just ends up getting innocent people in trouble over nothing.  I remember there was an article some time back in where a man in Australia got five years for simply owning a slingshot, and a man in England who got arrested for simply having a Vic 111mm in his car to cut food for his disabled wife.

Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ThePeacent on April 11, 2018, 07:18:56 PM
a bit OT, but a few hours ago two men fought with a large knife and a machete on the streets of my city, on a not-so-good neighborhood known for its troublesome inhabitants.  :facepalm:
It was recorded on video, and one of them (the big recurve machete) was indeed a Zombie machete!  :rofl:
I had a few of those back then when I didn't know anything about knives, they are 440 steel and had all the green, zombie and blood stains all over them

so zombie knives can be a problem!  :ahhh  though the real problem here was the mentally unstable man wielding it, all was over some drug deal that went wrong...one ended up in the hospital :P
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ThundahBeagle on April 11, 2018, 07:33:49 PM
"...For example we would not wish to criminalize a display in a museum. However, subject to these exceptions, we see no case for such dangerous weapons to be in someone’s home and possession. Even if the owner of the weapon in question has no intention at all of using it..."


Um, thank the Lord for the 4th amendment. Which I realize does not apply on the UK. Sorry fellas. I hope none of this comes to fruition .

I stated in another thread and others have states here, it's a shame they are doing the easy thing and vilifying the law abiding folks.

Not to overly politicize this but it's the same rational people use here for firearms. No doubt they will trickle down to knives. And when firearms and knives are outlawed, only outlaws will have firearms and knives. And the people will be left to be slaughtered because the police just can't be everywhere. And when they are everywhere, it's a police state.

God forbid the bad be punished.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Kampfer on April 11, 2018, 08:36:55 PM
I drew my Espada on three scumbags last night. :whistle:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 11, 2018, 09:43:58 PM
Did you ask them for i.d certifying their “scumbag” status first?  :whistle:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Kampfer on April 11, 2018, 09:46:10 PM
Did you ask them for i.d certifying their “scumbag” status first?  :whistle:
Their action reflects that clearly.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 11, 2018, 10:02:10 PM
Did you ask them for i.d certifying their “scumbag” status first?  :whistle:
Their action reflects that clearly.
Surely not, everything with legal significance nowadays requires i.d and paperwork done in triplicate....  :facepalm:

In any case,  :drink: :salute:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: microbe on April 11, 2018, 10:24:23 PM
a bit OT, but a few hours ago two men fought with a large knife and a machete on the streets of my city, on a not-so-good neighborhood known for its troublesome inhabitants.  :facepalm:
It was recorded on video, and one of them (the big recurve machete) was indeed a Zombie machete!  :rofl:
I had a few of those back then when I didn't know anything about knives, they are 440 steel and had all the green, zombie and blood stains all over them

so zombie knives can be a problem!  :ahhh  though the real problem here was the mentally unstable man wielding it, all was over some drug deal that went wrong...one ended up in the hospital :P

I saw that on the news today. Crazy stuff.
Outlawing zombie knives is not the solution though.
What if there is a zombie outbreak?
Butter knives are not going to work well to save your life.

IMHO, They should increase the punishment for the misuse of knives in crime instead of outlawing knives.
If the regular sentence for a robbery is X, the sentence for robbery with a knife is X times 3.
If the regular sentence for murder is X, the sentence for murder with a knife is x times 5.
Crime will always exist, but the risk for committing crime using a knife should outweigh the risk for crime not using a knife.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: hiraethus on April 11, 2018, 10:28:19 PM
Just enforce the smurfing laws we already have with a sensible number of properly trained, motivated police and a justice system setup to both deter and rehabilitate.  It's not smurfing rocket science, but the money grabbing shower of smurf we currently have in control of this country can't see past the end of their pudgy snouts.  smurfs.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 11, 2018, 10:29:46 PM
Just enforce the smurfing laws we already have with a sensible number of properly trained, motivated police and a justice system setup to both deter and rehabilitate.  It's not smurfing rocket science, but the moey grabbing shower of smurf we currently have in control of this country can't see past the end of their pudgy snouts.
:tu:
It sounds like you guys don’t need extra laws on top of the ones that you already have, just need to fix the rest of the accompanying system. :think:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: hiraethus on April 11, 2018, 10:29:57 PM
I really do wish sometimes that we didn't have a smurfing swear filter.   ::) >:(
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Nix on April 11, 2018, 10:32:26 PM
I really do wish sometimes that we didn't have a smurfing swear filter.   ::) >:(

Well, El Peacent taught us about the creative use of "Chorizo" this morning. As in, why are all politicians such chorizo-heads?
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: hiraethus on April 11, 2018, 10:34:24 PM
Ah, but chorizo is too delicious to be used as an insult.  Dammit Nix, I want some spicy sausage now. :twak:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Nix on April 11, 2018, 10:35:47 PM
Chorizo is darned tasty......
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: hiraethus on April 11, 2018, 10:36:57 PM
... fix the rest of the accompanying system. :think:

Exactly.  Stop all this austerity smurf, stop lining their own pockets while the country's public service disappear down the toilet, stop stealing money from the poor and stop creating class and racial divisions in our society.  smurfing cockwombles.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 11, 2018, 10:37:42 PM
Chorizo is darned tasty......
You’re preaching to the choir!  :D :tu:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: hiraethus on April 11, 2018, 10:39:07 PM
 :ahhh  Sorry, too ranty.  That's the last you'll hear from me on this. :cheers:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Nix on April 11, 2018, 10:40:47 PM
Who doesn't love a good rant?

Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 11, 2018, 10:47:12 PM
I just wrote a rant with lots of different verbs in it, I think it looks funny but it might be a little over the top to post. :think:
I was aiming for comedic ragging.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: magentus on April 11, 2018, 11:27:54 PM
 
... fix the rest of the accompanying system. :think:


Exactly.  Stop all this austerity smurf, stop lining their own pockets while the country's public service disappear down the toilet, stop stealing money from the poor and stop creating class and racial divisions in our society.  smurfing cockwombles.
:like: totally agree h  :tu:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: shark_za on April 12, 2018, 06:02:55 AM
What about pointy sticks?
Or bananas?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: dks on April 12, 2018, 09:18:19 AM
Bananas are OK, if they are ripe and under 15cm
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ThePeacent on April 12, 2018, 01:42:09 PM
Bananas are OK, if they are ripe and under 15cm

but male bananas, or female bananas?  ???
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: dks on April 12, 2018, 02:00:48 PM
Transgender ones
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on April 12, 2018, 02:45:32 PM
Transgender ones

Obviously......must be PC  :P

The ruling classes in whatever form are a blight on this earth.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 12, 2018, 04:16:01 PM
The bananas can’t be too bendy or straight.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: kwakster on April 12, 2018, 05:20:10 PM
Also in the tweet the mayor talks about a ban on home deliveries of acid.
Wouldn't that be stigmatizing his own constituents ?
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 12, 2018, 05:32:33 PM
Maybe the mayor carries a multi-tool, and find carrying a knife redundant.   :multi:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: greenbear on April 13, 2018, 10:18:19 AM
I posted this a few days ago too.

I understand that he is a very unusual/controversial figure, not being a typical white anglo saxon protestant as many would expect the mayor of London to be.

His statement is not legally binding, but it does carry a lot of weight. After all he is the leader of Londoners, an elected politician leader, and his opinion represents the views of the voters that elected him.  Maybe this is what the majority wants and we just can not see it.

He is trying to build a high profile political career for himself - outside London he is disliked and not highly respected - don't take what he says too literally.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: dks on April 13, 2018, 11:41:36 AM


He is trying to build a high profile political career for himself - outside London he is disliked and not highly respected - don't take what he says too literally.

If you replace "London" with another region or country that statement can be used to describe many current political figures  :)

He was elected in London, so his views represent the majority of London voters. Why would they elect him if they did not agree with him :)
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on April 13, 2018, 12:19:53 PM

He was elected in London, so his views represent the majority of London voters. Why would they elect him if they did not agree with him :)

So.....trying to understand people & politics using logic....... :think:

You do know this is Earth, not Vulcan?
 :rofl:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: hiraethus on April 13, 2018, 12:32:04 PM
Some (many?) of Khan's votes were because he's not Zac Goldsmith.  The campaign for the mayoral election seemed to be dominated by personality clashes, party politics and racial tensions, rather than policies.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: dks on April 13, 2018, 12:59:30 PM
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/f3cbeac5c9785734bc104548b8e638a46224f5b5/43_0_3201_1921/master/3201.jpg?w=1225&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&s=6ad31a4247a9dd5edac66c8a635a534b)
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: dks on April 13, 2018, 01:00:58 PM
https://twitter.com/hashtag/knifefree?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Ehashtag

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/23/uk-ad-campaign-to-reduce-knife-features-real-life-cases
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ThePeacent on April 13, 2018, 01:02:26 PM
Maybe the mayor carries a multi-tool, and find carrying a knife redundant.   :multi:

but if he carries one, it's a bladeless MT...and still he finds the knife redundant  :rofl:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: dks on April 13, 2018, 01:02:35 PM
This is good:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DamN8GAW0AA-8zP.jpg:large)
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 13, 2018, 01:04:37 PM
That headline picture....  :facepalm:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/08/uk-knife-crime-offenders-longer-jail-sentences
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/57b4f7c666cd5cf50a395c378395fa8e4c0bbb2c/0_77_1024_614/master/1024.jpg?w=620&q=20&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&dpr=2&s=5c788b52937cfafb3e18f4a0ff9352ea)
 More than 500 knives, 11 firearms and 50 other weapons recovered during one week of Operation Sceptre in London last year. Photograph: Metropolitan police/EPA
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ThePeacent on April 13, 2018, 01:07:42 PM
That headline picture....  :facepalm:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/08/uk-knife-crime-offenders-longer-jail-sentences
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/57b4f7c666cd5cf50a395c378395fa8e4c0bbb2c/0_77_1024_614/master/1024.jpg?w=620&q=20&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&dpr=2&s=5c788b52937cfafb3e18f4a0ff9352ea)
 More than 500 knives, 11 firearms and 50 other weapons recovered during one week of Operation Sceptre in London last year. Photograph: Metropolitan police/EPA

I see an instant collection right there  :whistle:  so sad
I guess that "weapon" part of the text refers to the empathy leather sheath    :rofl:

This new campaign is beyond ridiculous, and beyond the point where I doubt whether to cry or laugh at this  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: pfrsantos on April 13, 2018, 01:13:39 PM
That headline picture....  :facepalm:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/08/uk-knife-crime-offenders-longer-jail-sentences
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/57b4f7c666cd5cf50a395c378395fa8e4c0bbb2c/0_77_1024_614/master/1024.jpg?w=620&q=20&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&dpr=2&s=5c788b52937cfafb3e18f4a0ff9352ea)
 More than 500 knives, 11 firearms and 50 other weapons recovered during one week of Operation Sceptre in London last year. Photograph: Metropolitan police/EPA

Sooo... scissors and corkscrews are also to be outlawed. Good bye, Saville Row!

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 13, 2018, 01:25:09 PM
That headline picture....  :facepalm:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/08/uk-knife-crime-offenders-longer-jail-sentences
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/57b4f7c666cd5cf50a395c378395fa8e4c0bbb2c/0_77_1024_614/master/1024.jpg?w=620&q=20&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&dpr=2&s=5c788b52937cfafb3e18f4a0ff9352ea)
 More than 500 knives, 11 firearms and 50 other weapons recovered during one week of Operation Sceptre in London last year. Photograph: Metropolitan police/EPA

So many Victorinox 111mm models!  :o
A few multitools, a 130mm, tons of Opinels. Really nice pic, the longer you look at it, the more you discover.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: dks on April 13, 2018, 01:25:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/641522120170819584/1xPX44OK_400x400.jpg)

I am surprised people are not offenede by this......  Especially people that seem to be offended by just about anything else, the PC lot.

It is real:

http://www.onlycowardscarry.org/

Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: pfrsantos on April 13, 2018, 01:35:56 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/641522120170819584/1xPX44OK_400x400.jpg)

I am surprised people are not offenede by this......  Especially people that seem to be offended by just about anything else, the PC lot.

It is real:

http://www.onlycowardscarry.org/

Have these people heard of the police, military?...

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 13, 2018, 02:20:00 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/641522120170819584/1xPX44OK_400x400.jpg)

I am surprised people are not offenede by this......  Especially people that seem to be offended by just about anything else, the PC lot.

It is real:

http://www.onlycowardscarry.org/
I think that we talked about this one before, and the consensus was that it was taken out of context.  :think:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on April 13, 2018, 03:11:03 PM
This is good:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DamN8GAW0AA-8zP.jpg:large)

 :rofl:

 :tu: :tu:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on April 13, 2018, 03:14:13 PM
Back to clubbing your dinner to death, ripping it up and stuffing your mouth using your dirty paws  :facepalm:


So how about all those confiscated Opinels?.......lots of uncut fruits & cheeses I guess?  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 13, 2018, 03:18:25 PM
Somehow I didn’t think that opinels were such a common weapon with the hoodlum fraternity.....  ::)

Too bad the #1 has been out of production for three quarters of a century, it’s just what everyone needs, no larger than that!  :D
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Aloha on April 13, 2018, 04:10:01 PM
So, if it were possible to have a totally knifmeless society ( pick a country ).  What exactly would that look like?  I understand this guy said there was no good reason to carry a knife but I'm taking it a step further. 
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: pfrsantos on April 13, 2018, 04:11:51 PM
So, if it were possible to have a totally knifmeless society ( pick a country ).  What exactly would that look like?  I understand this guy said there was no good reason to carry a knife but I'm taking it a step further.

Well, first of awl, no sandwiches. Or watermelon slices.

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: pfrsantos on April 13, 2018, 04:13:29 PM
This is good:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DamN8GAW0AA-8zP.jpg)

 :rofl:

 :tu: :tu:

Yup, pretty much...

 :P
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 13, 2018, 04:47:11 PM
So, if it were possible to have a totally knifmeless society ( pick a country ).  What exactly would that look like?  I understand this guy said there was no good reason to carry a knife but I'm taking it a step further.

Well, first of awl, no sandwiches. Or watermelon slices.

 :facepalm:
Kitchens will have axes for cutting food.  :tu:
(Axes are not knives, right?)
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: cody6268 on April 13, 2018, 05:24:36 PM
I was watching an ad for a cooking show (Worst Cooks in America) and they showed a guy (who I guess was one of the nuts afraid of knives) trying to cut an onion with a cutting board.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 14, 2018, 10:56:33 AM
So, if it were possible to have a totally knifeless society ( pick a country ).  What exactly would that look like?  I understand this guy said there was no good reason to carry a knife but I'm taking it a step further.

-This knife ban was a double-edged sword.
-A what?
-Nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7eYvovbH3Q
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Syncop8r on April 14, 2018, 12:30:00 PM
That headline picture....  :facepalm:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/08/uk-knife-crime-offenders-longer-jail-sentences
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/57b4f7c666cd5cf50a395c378395fa8e4c0bbb2c/0_77_1024_614/master/1024.jpg?w=620&q=20&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&dpr=2&s=5c788b52937cfafb3e18f4a0ff9352ea)
 More than 500 knives, 11 firearms and 50 other weapons recovered during one week of Operation Sceptre in London last year. Photograph: Metropolitan police/EPA
I would like to see that pic with all the kitchen knives photoshopped out...
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Mechanickal on April 14, 2018, 12:48:47 PM
I'll try not to get too political here.
And I'll only reply directly regarding the new rules once.


In Belgium, firearms are prohibited.
In the 80's you could own .22 rifles or hunting rifles without any hassle.

Someone got killed by a .22, someone else with a hunting rifle.

Result?
Full ban! Only hunters, collectors etc could own these "weapons" under strict rulings and a smurfload of paperwork. Alot of the firearms even needed to be converted to non-functional.

Now, in the current time, people get murdered with knives or even bare fists/hands in those cases where emotions raised high.

And what else do we see?
Almost everyone handed in their gun when the law changed, while criminals and robbers fire at the police with AK's!
Which were never allowed in the first place! (Duh! This is Europe...)

My point being:
Good people will have their TOOL confiscated and be proscecuted, while actual criminals won't give a smurf!
The actual scum of people will still carry knives with the intention of using it against people. This was already prohibited  (naturaly) and yet they still used it for stabbing.
Now with even stricter knife laws they believe that those people will suddenly feel like "oh, carrying a knife is illegal now. I'll only grab my phone and keys when I leave the house now"?

Dream on politicians!


Like mentioned alot of times before: people kill people.

Scentence the ones who did wrong HARD and make an example out of them. As long as criminals feel untouchable, they'll just continue what they're doing.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: greenbear on April 14, 2018, 03:57:27 PM


He is trying to build a high profile political career for himself - outside London he is disliked and not highly respected - don't take what he says too literally.

If you replace "London" with another region or country that statement can be used to describe many current political figures  :)

He was elected in London, so his views represent the majority of London voters. Why would they elect him if they did not agree with him :)

He was elected with a slim majority. The population of London is less than 8 million.  Only just over 4 million people voted for him.  That's around 5% of the UK's population which is not a vast amount in terms of democracy.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: dks on April 14, 2018, 04:05:11 PM
This is how elections work

Not many representatives are elected with 100% of the votes, in democracies

Brexit, Scotish Independence votes had narrow majorities but they are still valid and taken to represent the will of the people.


Maybe most Londoners really do want knives to be made illegal.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Aloha on April 14, 2018, 04:15:04 PM
@Mechanickal  :salute:

 
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Nix on April 14, 2018, 05:12:22 PM
I find myself in agreement with hiraethus and Mechy that what we need is better policing of existing laws addressing violence. Perhaps combined with better preventative measures to reduce the motivation to engage in criminal behavior.

But that would be hard...
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: greenbear on April 15, 2018, 04:42:58 PM
This is how elections work

Not many representatives are elected with 100% of the votes, in democracies

Brexit, Scotish Independence votes had narrow majorities but they are still valid and taken to represent the will of the people.


Maybe most Londoners really do want knives to be made illegal.

Without wishing to go any further into politics, Brexit does not seem to have been accepted as either valid or the will of the people and the fallout has been horrendous.

But I'm sure you see my point, that the London Mayor does not represent all of in the UK by any stretch.

I guess with the current apparent crimewave that many urban folk would be in fear of knife attack.  Percentage wise, knife attacks are still rare though in the UK.  But obviously no attacks at all would be the optimum outcome.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: greenbear on April 15, 2018, 04:48:04 PM
I find myself in agreement with hiraethus and Mechy that what we need is better policing of existing laws addressing violence. Perhaps combined with better preventative measures to reduce the motivation to engage in criminal behavior.

But that would be hard...

I agree also.

One of the key issues in the UK has been the inability of our Police to penetrate drugs gangs successfully.  Some of this is down to age, as it is very difficult to get 30+ year old officers into teen gangs covertly.  But also there has been an ethnicity problem in that the UK still does not have enough officers of ethnic minority origin to be able to engage with the modern multi racial society (not through lack of trying, but so often the Police are viewed as the "enemy" rather than arbiters of law and order).

I favour preventative measures and engagement too.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: pomsbz on April 15, 2018, 05:20:23 PM
Question, regardless of his fear mongering, can his opinion actually change the law which fully allows the carrying of a non locking blade under 3"? The rhetoric can be as it may, can he change the law?
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Nix on April 15, 2018, 05:26:40 PM
Question, regardless of his fear mongering, can his opinion actually change the law which fully allows the carrying of a non locking blade under 3"? The rhetoric can be as it may, can he change the law?

Give a lawmaker an inch, he'll take all three.

Not being familiar with English law (except as the basis for USA law), I can't be sure, but suspect he can't change the law with a single stroke of his pen.

However, this is where ridiculous laws start: someone starts framing the problem as a "dangerous weapon" problem, others join in, no one has the courage to stand up for reason, and the group changes the law. So....yes...he can.  :rant:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Smashie on April 15, 2018, 07:05:35 PM
Question, regardless of his fear mongering, can his opinion actually change the law which fully allows the carrying of a non locking blade under 3"? The rhetoric can be as it may, can he change the law?

Give a lawmaker an inch, he'll take all three.

Not being familiar with English law (except as the basis for USA law), I can't be sure, but suspect he can't change the law with a single stroke of his pen.

However, this is where ridiculous laws start: someone starts framing the problem as a "dangerous weapon" problem, others join in, no one has the courage to stand up for reason, and the group changes the law. So....yes...he can.  :rant:


You are correct, Kahn cannot change the law however the government can and they are not going to miss a chance to push their own agenda through. There were already two consultations started, one on firearms and the the other on knives. What has been done now is these have been torn up and new legislation will be passed because 'Think of the children'.

No government is going to be want to be seen doing nothing when 'children' are being killed.

Yes we have existing laws that are fit for purpose but at others have pointed out police budgets have been cut. What no one here has mentioned yet is that the Mayor has instructed the Met Police to concentrate on nasty tweets, fb postings and YT videos. About 900 officers all told that aren't on the streets.

We are in for a rough ride I think.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 15, 2018, 09:01:12 PM
(Removed)

[the] Mayor has instructed the Met Police to concentrate on nasty tweets, fb postings and YT videos. About 900 officers all told that aren't on the streets.

(Removed)
Wow... I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt before... not so much now.... :facepalm:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Smashie on April 15, 2018, 09:21:32 PM
(Removed)

[the] Mayor has instructed the Met Police to concentrate on nasty tweets, fb postings and YT videos. About 900 officers all told that aren't on the streets.

(Removed)
Wow... I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt before... not so much now.... :facepalm:

He was also the one who scaled back stop and search.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 15, 2018, 09:50:00 PM
(Removed)

[the] Mayor has instructed the Met Police to concentrate on nasty tweets, fb postings and YT videos. About 900 officers all told that aren't on the streets.

(Removed)
Wow... I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt before... not so much now.... :facepalm:

He was also the one who scaled back stop and search.
Now he’s doing the opposite.  :think:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Nix on April 16, 2018, 12:52:51 AM
He was also the one who scaled back stop and search.

Stop and Search was one of the reasons we Colonials got a bit uppity back in the '70's.

.....the 1770's..... :whistle:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Smashie on April 16, 2018, 01:09:58 AM
He was also the one who scaled back stop and search.

Stop and Search was one of the reasons we Colonials got a bit uppity back in the '70's.

.....the 1770's..... :whistle:

But at least it was working here
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: greenbear on April 16, 2018, 07:15:01 PM
Question, regardless of his fear mongering, can his opinion actually change the law which fully allows the carrying of a non locking blade under 3"? The rhetoric can be as it may, can he change the law?

No he can't - effectively he is head of the London councils and has absolutely no power over UK law, only London's by-laws.  Which is why he should be a little less loud about it all.  As I said earlier he is trying to make a name for himself.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ThundahBeagle on April 16, 2018, 07:21:05 PM
Question, regardless of his fear mongering, can his opinion actually change the law which fully allows the carrying of a non locking blade under 3"? The rhetoric can be as it may, can he change the law?

No he can't - effectively he is head of the London councils and has absolutely no power over UK law, only London's by-laws.  Which is why he should be a little less loud about it all.  As I said earlier he is trying to make a name for himself.

His making a name for himself doesn't change the fact that he does have power to change at least the London laws. Here in the USA,  Washington DC completely restricted firearms licensing for decades. Finally, a superior court stated that this ban was unconstitutional, and it has recently been lifted. Though all that means is that people can apply and will probably have to jump through tremendous hoops to get a license.

This London mayor can change things there for decades or forever. Which sucks.

People will use bricks or bare hands anyway. And the criminals never really care what the gun or knife laws are anyway.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Aloha on April 16, 2018, 07:51:40 PM
[ criminals never really care what the gun or knife laws are anyway.

This ^^

Come on now.  Criminals will not be deterred.  This is not to say we shouldn't have laws obviously.  Anyone intent on killing can certainly find a number of ways to accomplish it.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: shark_za on April 16, 2018, 08:30:42 PM
There is always a mild form of Stockholm Syndrome where normal people will justify this to themselves and buy into the false thinking.
So sad.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Smashie on April 16, 2018, 08:46:24 PM

His making a name for himself doesn't change the fact that he does have power to change at least the London laws. Here in the USA,  Washington DC completely restricted firearms licensing for decades. Finally, a superior court stated that this ban was unconstitutional, and it has recently been lifted. Though all that means is that people can apply and will probably have to jump through tremendous hoops to get a license.

This London mayor can change things there for decades or forever. Which sucks.

People will use bricks or bare hands anyway. And the criminals never really care what the gun or knife laws are anyway.

He can ONLY influence London councils and their 'by laws' which are basically things like littering. He has no seat in Parliament therefore cannot introduce or vote on national laws.

He is however a colossal waste of space who has done nothing since becoming mayor other than have a go a Trump
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: greenbear on April 17, 2018, 06:49:59 PM
Question, regardless of his fear mongering, can his opinion actually change the law which fully allows the carrying of a non locking blade under 3"? The rhetoric can be as it may, can he change the law?

No he can't - effectively he is head of the London councils and has absolutely no power over UK law, only London's by-laws.  Which is why he should be a little less loud about it all.  As I said earlier he is trying to make a name for himself.

His making a name for himself doesn't change the fact that he does have power to change at least the London laws. Here in the USA,  Washington DC completely restricted firearms licensing for decades. Finally, a superior court stated that this ban was unconstitutional, and it has recently been lifted. Though all that means is that people can apply and will probably have to jump through tremendous hoops to get a license.

This London mayor can change things there for decades or forever. Which sucks.

People will use bricks or bare hands anyway. And the criminals never really care what the gun or knife laws are anyway.

Knife law can only be changed by Parliament ie the UK government, not by a mayor.  The mayoral role in the UK is very different to that in the US.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: microbe on April 17, 2018, 08:48:13 PM
[ criminals never really care what the gun or knife laws are anyway.

This ^^

Come on now.  Criminals will not be deterred.  This is not to say we shouldn't have laws obviously.  Anyone intent on killing can certainly find a number of ways to accomplish it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYVqmBaqgPU
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Syncop8r on April 17, 2018, 09:36:14 PM
Hipster gun nuts....  :facepalm:

People will use bricks or bare hands anyway. And the criminals never really care what the gun or knife laws are anyway.
How many of these criminals aren't initially criminals but in fact teenagers who get caught up in heated situations? They carry a knife because other kids do, then when things turn sour they use their knife. It gives them power they would not otherwise have. A knife is scarier than bricks or bare hands, and most people could not do the same amount of damage as easily with either. And it gives them a confidence that stops them from backing away from a dangerous situation.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on April 17, 2018, 11:02:13 PM

His making a name for himself doesn't change the fact that he does have power to change at least the London laws. Here in the USA,  Washington DC completely restricted firearms licensing for decades. Finally, a superior court stated that this ban was unconstitutional, and it has recently been lifted. Though all that means is that people can apply and will probably have to jump through tremendous hoops to get a license.

This London mayor can change things there for decades or forever. Which sucks.

People will use bricks or bare hands anyway. And the criminals never really care what the gun or knife laws are anyway.

He can ONLY influence London councils and their 'by laws' which are basically things like littering. He has no seat in Parliament therefore cannot introduce or vote on national laws.

He is however a colossal waste of space who has done nothing since becoming mayor other than have a go a Trump

Beautifully put.  :salute:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ThundahBeagle on April 17, 2018, 11:50:58 PM

His making a name for himself doesn't change the fact that he does have power to change at least the London laws. Here in the USA,  Washington DC completely restricted firearms licensing for decades. Finally, a superior court stated that this ban was unconstitutional, and it has recently been lifted. Though all that means is that people can apply and will probably have to jump through tremendous hoops to get a license.

This London mayor can change things there for decades or forever. Which sucks.

People will use bricks or bare hands anyway. And the criminals never really care what the gun or knife laws are anyway.

He can ONLY influence London councils and their 'by laws' which are basically things like littering. He has no seat in Parliament therefore cannot introduce or vote on national laws.

He is however a colossal waste of space who has done nothing since becoming mayor other than have a go a Trump

Beautifully put.  :salute:

Hi Smashie,

I think we agree that he cannot make national law, however, he could create a bylaw or some sort of executive order barring knives from use within London itself, am I wrong about that?

We have a state Attorney General (Solicitor in the UK I think), who is supposed to ENFORCE the law. Yet, she just decreed a whole category of rifles illegal. She doesnt have the juice to create law. That's the job of the legislature. Yet, her decree is sticking.

I'm saying, legal or not, London's mayor seems to have been given the juice to do this. It may unravel if challenged in court, but meanwhile, many people may be forced to turn in their personal property if stopped on the street, and what's worse, he seems to be saying that one hasnt a right to knives in one's own home.

I sure don't know much about UK laws or politics, so I will have to defer to other folks here, but I do have an understanding of human nature, politician's nature, and the overreach that often accompanies the two.

I wish you all luck there, though
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Smashie on April 18, 2018, 12:31:13 AM
Hi Thundah,

No he can't do anything to influence criminal law, the roll of the Mayor is largely ceremonial. The last Mayor of London, Boris Johnson (also a buffoon, but a relatively benign one) Introduced better cycle lanes, cheap to rent commuter bikes and better buses. Oh and crime in London was at an all time low. Now London's murder rate has exceeded that of New York. Now not a great example as I bet it's not as high a Chicago or LA. Last time I was in NY I've never felt safer.

There are significant differences between State and Federal laws in the US and what we have here. We have counties not states and they are limited in what they can do, they can't decide tax for instance, that's set by the G'ment. They also absolutely cannot change criminal law in way shape or form.

The problem we have is we don't have written laws or a constitution (and I'm jealous of that), we have the majority of our laws based on legal precedent, so if a judge makes a bad decision, tough, we're stuck with it. Just as happened with locking knives being classed as fixed blades.

I hope this has help to clear things up, if not then I and others will help to clarify. We are looking at a pretty bleak future and ranting (not aimed at anyone in particular) really doesn't help.

To explain, I can write to my MP, or go and talk to him as much as I wan't, but it won't change anything. John Bercow, my MP, is the speaker of the house (of commons). He can't introduce bills (new legislation), he can't vote, unless it's a hung parliament and he can't be voted out because no other party can stand against him. He's actually a nice person to talk to, but he can't do anything, because becoming the speaker means you have to leave the political party you were in.

I hope you can see frustration we have here and I hope others who have different laws will accept that   ours are different and ranting about it really doesn't help anyone.

Peace

Mark
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Aloha on April 18, 2018, 01:19:53 AM
I'm really sorry to hear this fellas.  I sure hope something down the road will derail this mentality.  I had a few items I wanted to send that way but now I worry they wont make it. 
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on April 18, 2018, 01:49:47 AM
And this is exactly why we don't allow political discussions here.  Everyone has something they want to say, but they don't want to upset anyone else, and the end result is that nothing is going to be accomplished anyway.

I think we are all on the same page here, and we need to be careful that we don't offend each others' national pride, not to be confused with the disappointment we all feel with the way society around us seems to be heading.

Frankly I think those of you with kids and grand kids should be very happy that the world is going the way it is, as your kids will be some of the few that have any mechanical ability and the wherewithal to actually solve problems.  In my generation there were a lot of intelligent, forward thinking and ambitious kids out there, and we had a lot to compete with.  So many kids nowadays are completely useless, hamstrung by the bubble wrap placed around them that they would never even think of getting dirty or trying something without a helmet.

If your kid can get dirty and not freak out, you have a kid who has the world by the balls.

Def
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Smashie on April 18, 2018, 02:02:20 AM
I'm really sorry to hear this fellas.  I sure hope something down the road will derail this mentality.  I had a few items I wanted to send that way but now I worry they wont make it.

Thanks Aloha, I hope so too but I'm not expecting any great change. I've got quite a few knives and multis that these changes 'could' make illegal for me to have in my own home.

Luckily for me I sold my 2 Ruger 10/22's last year to finance other rifles, as now semi auto or 'rapid fire' firearms are also thrown in with this legislation. For no reason whatsoever as I cannot find any evidence of them being used in any criminal act.

The way this act has been put across means that flippers and OHO knives (which include multis) will be re-classified as automatic or gravity knives. The major change is they will no be legal own at all, even if you don't carry them.

Pure insanity

Peace,

Mark
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Smashie on April 18, 2018, 02:05:56 AM
And this is exactly why we don't allow political discussions here.  Everyone has something they want to say, but they don't want to upset anyone else, and the end result is that nothing is going to be accomplished anyway.

I think we are all on the same page here, and we need to be careful that we don't offend each others' national pride, not to be confused with the disappointment we all feel with the way society around us seems to be heading.

Frankly I think those of you with kids and grand kids should be very happy that the world is going the way it is, as your kids will be some of the few that have any mechanical ability and the wherewithal to actually solve problems.  In my generation there were a lot of intelligent, forward thinking and ambitious kids out there, and we had a lot to compete with.  So many kids nowadays are completely useless, hamstrung by the bubble wrap placed around them that they would never even think of getting dirty or trying something without a helmet.

If your kid can get dirty and not freak out, you have a kid who has the world by the balls.

Def

This^^^^^ :like:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Nix on April 18, 2018, 02:57:33 AM

If your kid can get dirty and not freak out, you have a kid who has the world by the balls.


 :rofl:

That's funny.....but, sadly, true..... :-[
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ThundahBeagle on April 18, 2018, 07:02:56 AM
Hi Thundah,

No he can't do anything to influence criminal law, the roll of the Mayor is largely ceremonial. The last Mayor of London, Boris Johnson (also a buffoon, but a relatively benign one) Introduced better cycle lanes, cheap to rent commuter bikes and better buses. Oh and crime in London was at an all time low. Now London's murder rate has exceeded that of New York. Now not a great example as I bet it's not as high a Chicago or LA. Last time I was in NY I've never felt safer.

There are significant differences between State and Federal laws in the US and what we have here. We have counties not states and they are limited in what they can do, they can't decide tax for instance, that's set by the G'ment. They also absolutely cannot change criminal law in way shape or form.

The problem we have is we don't have written laws or a constitution (and I'm jealous of that), we have the majority of our laws based on legal precedent, so if a judge makes a bad decision, tough, we're stuck with it. Just as happened with locking knives being classed as fixed blades.

I hope this has help to clear things up, if not then I and others will help to clarify. We are looking at a pretty bleak future and ranting (not aimed at anyone in particular) really doesn't help.

To explain, I can write to my MP, or go and talk to him as much as I wan't, but it won't change anything. John Bercow, my MP, is the speaker of the house (of commons). He can't introduce bills (new legislation), he can't vote, unless it's a hung parliament and he can't be voted out because no other party can stand against him. He's actually a nice person to talk to, but he can't do anything, because becoming the speaker means you have to leave the political party you were in.

I hope you can see frustration we have here and I hope others who have different laws will accept that   ours are different and ranting about it really doesn't help anyone.

Peace

Mark

Hi Smashie

Apologies if i was ranting or came off as meaning to hammer at anyones national pride. I reaaly meant to commisserate and relate. Thanks for the summation of the situation and general overview of the law and process there. That does help to bring things into better focus.

I feel what's happening is wrong. It's the same mentality here about firearms. That's one thing, but I'd hate to see it rise to the same level here for blades as it just has there.

As Grant said, stay dirty, my friends, and teach your kid's what you know. As Aloha said, I hope things ease up over there. Best of luck with the crime wave. Lord knows all our cities you named are in as rough a spot. Good luck with the political correctness as well.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: shark_za on April 18, 2018, 07:33:08 AM
There is always a mild form of Stockholm Syndrome where normal people will justify this to themselves and buy into the false thinking.
So sad.
I rest my case.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on April 18, 2018, 08:00:26 AM
I rest my case.
Quote
and we need to be careful that we don't offend each others' national pride,

My country sucks, politicians have already sold the future of many generations.

Shark's country is even worse.......and more dangerous......for the same reason.

My mind boggles at what's happening in the "civilized world" ......and I'm not just talking about knife laws.

Never mind avoiding political discussions.......
 :assimilate: 
We need an IA overlord and his first order needs to be string up the politicians..... >:D
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ThundahBeagle on April 18, 2018, 08:40:34 AM
There is always a mild form of Stockholm Syndrome where normal people will justify this to themselves and buy into the false thinking.
So sad.
I rest my case.

Agreed Shark_za. We call them "sheeple" here.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ThundahBeagle on April 18, 2018, 08:44:14 AM
I rest my case.
Quote
and we need to be careful that we don't offend each others' national pride,

My country sucks, politicians have already sold the future of many generations.

Shark's country is even worse.......and more dangerous......for the same reason.

My mind boggles at what's happening in the "civilized world" ......and I'm not just talking about knife laws.

Never mind avoiding political discussions.......
 :assimilate: 
We need an IA overlord and his first order needs to be string up the politicians..... >:D

I fear the AI overlord would see us as superfluous and unnecessary.  Then...y-yikes
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: hiraethus on April 18, 2018, 09:36:45 AM
There is always a mild form of Stockholm Syndrome where normal people will justify this to themselves and buy into the false thinking.
So sad.
I rest my case.

Agreed Shark_za. We call them "sheeple" here.

You might call them sheeple there, but I don't think we should call them sheeple on MTO.

(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/sheeple.png)
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: pomsbz on April 18, 2018, 10:48:47 AM
If I was a sheep I'd be in great danger of eating my own ribs. Or stuffing my own shoulder and eating that.  :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ThundahBeagle on April 19, 2018, 12:16:47 PM
Even this Monk Seal against the mayor of London's proposed knife ban. Then again,  he's underage...

http://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/04/17/breaking-news/video-monk-seal-pup-spotted-playing-with-knife/
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: dks on May 05, 2018, 12:57:59 PM
related:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/04/trump-nra-london-hospital-knives
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on May 05, 2018, 01:22:48 PM
related:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/04/trump-nra-london-hospital-knives
That’s it, I’m never visiting the UK. :ahhh
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Nix on May 06, 2018, 04:24:26 PM
(http://gunsnfreedom.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/knives-in-australia.jpg)
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Wspeed on May 06, 2018, 04:32:35 PM
 :rofl:  that’s just  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on May 06, 2018, 04:40:26 PM
Oh smurf. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: magentus on May 06, 2018, 06:29:25 PM
related:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/04/trump-nra-london-hospital-knives
Bear in mind this is Donald Trump saying this.  Donald Trump. Really not worth listening to.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Aloha on May 07, 2018, 05:59:19 AM
:rofl:  that’s just  :facepalm:

It is really coming to this  :think:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: hiraethus on May 07, 2018, 08:24:03 AM
The picture Nix posted is from an Australian, not UK, shop. And what magentus said, plus Trump was probably referring to an article from the Daily Mail - a paper (in)famously full of lies and hate.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on May 07, 2018, 09:36:25 AM
The picture Nix posted is from an Australian, not UK, shop. And what magentus said, plus Trump was probably referring to an article from the Daily Mail - a paper (in)famously full of lies and hate.
Are you saying that the UK doesn’t use dollars?  ??? :o

:D
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Smashie on May 07, 2018, 09:37:24 AM
The picture Nix posted is from an Australian, not UK, shop. And what magentus said, plus Trump was probably referring to an article from the Daily Mail - a paper (in)famously full of lies and hate.

No tell me that's not true about the daily fail  :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Smashie on May 07, 2018, 11:51:58 AM
http://www.thenational.scot/news/16203630.Man_to_be_sentenced_for_possession_of_potato_peeler_in_public_place/

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ReamerPunch on May 07, 2018, 11:57:32 AM
http://www.thenational.scot/news/16203630.Man_to_be_sentenced_for_possession_of_potato_peeler_in_public_place/

 :facepalm:

A potato peeler?  :facepalm:
Meanwhile, you can carry a sword in Texas.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: hiraethus on May 07, 2018, 12:06:24 PM
Non story.

Quote
The man was on bail for another unspecified offence at the time of his arrest.

Quote
defence solicitor Selina McKay who said her client “suffers from significant learning difficulties which have been lifelong”.

The papers are determined to make a fuss about this.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Smashie on May 07, 2018, 12:29:41 PM
Non story.

Quote
The man was on bail for another unspecified offence at the time of his arrest.

Quote
defence solicitor Selina McKay who said her client “suffers from significant learning difficulties which have been lifelong”.

The papers are determined to make a fuss about this.

Unfortunately you know that and I know that, but the majority don't  ???
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: shark_za on May 07, 2018, 11:10:00 PM
If I had to choose between Trump going off or this last report.....
Eish....
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ReamerPunch on May 09, 2018, 01:21:29 PM
Did Victorinox not have a gorgeous dark green named London Green? Or something similar?  :think:
I can't find any pics on Google no matter what I search for.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: magentus on May 31, 2018, 04:27:32 PM
[deleted a bunch of stuff that probably shouldn't be on here]

Yes, things are probably going to get more restrictive.  Rules on locking and one-hand opening knives are likely to be tightened along with new stop and search policies and criminalising knives that are currently held legally.  The UK Border Force are already seizing flippers on their way into the country as flick knives even though they're perfectly legal to own, carry and use.
Just had a letter from the BF about a CRKT M16 colt sent me (2nd one he sent as the first one didn't arrive (wonder if that got confiscated too).  :facepalm:

Anyone else had this?
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: dks on May 31, 2018, 04:48:29 PM
no

:)
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Aloha on May 31, 2018, 04:52:53 PM
Let me ask??  So sending anything sharp and pointy to UK is a bad idea?? 
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: magentus on May 31, 2018, 04:57:41 PM
Let me ask??  So sending anything sharp and pointy to UK is a bad idea??
They've classified the M16 (a flipper) as a flick knife  :think: so I guess the answer is yes.  >:(
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: dks on May 31, 2018, 05:20:06 PM
If anything the laws in the UK are not strict enough - Getting out of the EU will allow the UK to make the legislation properly strict for the safety of the nation...


:)
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: toolguy on June 01, 2018, 01:30:14 AM
If anything the laws in the UK are not strict enough - Getting out of the EU will allow the UK to make the legislation properly strict for the safety of the nation...


:)


LOL
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: hiraethus on June 03, 2018, 08:06:00 AM
Just had a letter from the BF about a CRKT M16 colt sent me (2nd one he sent as the first one didn't arrive (wonder if that got confiscated too).  :facepalm:

Anyone else had this?

Yes, there are several other instances of the UKBF seizing flippers that have been docmented over on edgematters. :-\
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on June 04, 2018, 09:05:00 AM
I partially watched a docu on the problem in the UK.......by some footballer upset about what's happening in his home town.

Left me with a few thoughts, and a few questions.....

Firstly, there was one guy with a machete, the rest mostly had kitchen knives.

Secondly, they all appear to be from the wrong side of the tracks.  Is a certain level of mortality not to be expected in those circles?

Thirdly, obviously these elements come onto contact with the rest of civilized society, sometimes there will be problems, and sometimes innocents get hurt or killed.  Has this increased, or is it just being reported more?

Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: hiraethus on June 29, 2018, 01:31:46 PM
Petition to modify the offensive weapons bill:

Quote
Remove article 15 of the Offensive Weapons Bill (HC Bill 232)
After numerous representations to the Home Office and Metropolitan Police offering multiple solutions that will reduce availability of blades to those who wish to use them as weapons the Government have persisted with a misinformed proposal which is at best misguided and at worst dangerous.

More details
This draft new law will make it impossible for self-employed tradesmen to have bladed tools delivered to their residence, hobbyists to acquire speSmurfpillst tools that OTC retailers could not justify stocking and furthermore it contravenes the human rights of the house bound and the infirm unable to travel to bricks and mortar shops.
I appeal to you not just to sign this petition but to also write to your MP to ask that they support the removal of section 15.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/222776

UK members, please sign - and contact your MP. :cheers:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: pfrsantos on June 29, 2018, 01:32:46 PM
Heinnie Haynes is getting ready...

Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: hiraethus on June 29, 2018, 01:33:56 PM
Seems a sensible approach, if the laws are brought in.  It'll hit companies like Heinnie hard.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: ReamerPunch on June 29, 2018, 01:43:07 PM
I partially watched a docu on the problem in the UK.......by some footballer upset about what's happening in his home town.

Left me with a few thoughts, and a few questions.....

Firstly, there was one guy with a machete, the rest mostly had kitchen knives.

Secondly, they all appear to be from the wrong side of the tracks.  Is a certain level of mortality not to be expected in those circles?

Thirdly, obviously these elements come onto contact with the rest of civilized society, sometimes there will be problems, and sometimes innocents get hurt or killed.  Has this increased, or is it just being reported more?

I saw that too. Not one multi-tool or sak. Machetes and kitchen knives mostly. So many misguided teenagers. Certainly a problem that needs to be dealt with.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: pomsbz on June 29, 2018, 04:01:10 PM
Petition to modify the offensive weapons bill:

Quote
Remove article 15 of the Offensive Weapons Bill (HC Bill 232)
After numerous representations to the Home Office and Metropolitan Police offering multiple solutions that will reduce availability of blades to those who wish to use them as weapons the Government have persisted with a misinformed proposal which is at best misguided and at worst dangerous.

More details
This draft new law will make it impossible for self-employed tradesmen to have bladed tools delivered to their residence, hobbyists to acquire speSmurfpillst tools that OTC retailers could not justify stocking and furthermore it contravenes the human rights of the house bound and the infirm unable to travel to bricks and mortar shops.
I appeal to you not just to sign this petition but to also write to your MP to ask that they support the removal of section 15.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/222776

UK members, please sign - and contact your MP. :cheers:

Signed.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: pfrsantos on June 29, 2018, 04:20:08 PM
Petition to modify the offensive weapons bill:

Quote
Remove article 15 of the Offensive Weapons Bill (HC Bill 232)
After numerous representations to the Home Office and Metropolitan Police offering multiple solutions that will reduce availability of blades to those who wish to use them as weapons the Government have persisted with a misinformed proposal which is at best misguided and at worst dangerous.

More details
This draft new law will make it impossible for self-employed tradesmen to have bladed tools delivered to their residence, hobbyists to acquire speSmurfpillst tools that OTC retailers could not justify stocking and furthermore it contravenes the human rights of the house bound and the infirm unable to travel to bricks and mortar shops.
I appeal to you not just to sign this petition but to also write to your MP to ask that they support the removal of section 15.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/222776

UK members, please sign - and contact your MP. :cheers:

Signed.

Wish I could sign it...

 :-[
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: magentus on June 29, 2018, 04:27:32 PM
Signed.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: pfrsantos on June 29, 2018, 04:32:39 PM
Signed.

Ooh... I'm better than pfrsantos... I can sign petitions... I'm so smart...

 :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: pfrsantos on June 29, 2018, 04:34:05 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/236x/f4/5e/55/f45e552a9d4ee66bdad1d437a61e3de6--coffee-party.jpg)
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: magentus on June 29, 2018, 04:38:49 PM
Signed.

Ooh... I'm better than pfrsantos... I can sign petitions... I'm so smart...

 :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak:
I've signed for you as well Santos.

I wrote:

I, pfr Santos do solemnlynly request that a repealmentation of section 15 of the UK knife laws doth take place forthwith lest I feel compelled to enact a naked protest at the unfairness of said section 15 by running around the houses of parliament all a'dangling and screaming 'That's What She Said' until my protests are listened to and acted upon.

You have been warned.

Warmest wishes, pfr Santos
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: pfrsantos on June 29, 2018, 05:12:49 PM
Signed.

Ooh... I'm better than pfrsantos... I can sign petitions... I'm so smart...

 :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak:
I've signed for you as well Santos.

I wrote:

I, pfr Santos do solemnlynly request that a repealmentation of section 15 of the UK knife laws doth take place forthwith lest I feel compelled to enact a naked protest at the unfairness of said section 15 by running around the houses of parliament all a'dangling and screaming 'That's What She Said' until my protests are listened to and acted upon.

You have been warned.

Warmest wishes, pfr Santos

Well, I think that did it. Even if the press hasn't announced it yet, that law is revoked...

 8) 8)
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Essexman on June 29, 2018, 11:23:50 PM
........., and a man in England who got arrested for simply having a Vic 111mm in his car to cut food for his disabled wife.

It’s amazing how often this case gets used as an example, sad really as it’s not true.
This case was not what it seemed. The newspaper headlines did not report the facts.
The guy in question was not using a SAK but a lock knife and he threatened to kill another person.




Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on June 29, 2018, 11:51:16 PM
........., and a man in England who got arrested for simply having a Vic 111mm in his car to cut food for his disabled wife.

It’s amazing how often this case gets used as an example, sad really as it’s not true.
This case was not what it seemed. The newspaper headlines did not report the facts.
The guy in question was not using a SAK but a lock knife and he threatened to kill another person.
Truth is important. :tu: :salute:
Do you have a favoured source where I can go read about that case?
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Syncop8r on June 30, 2018, 03:15:11 AM
Mmmmmm.... favourite sauce...  :drool:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on June 30, 2018, 09:11:31 AM
Mmmmmm.... favourite sauce...  :drool:
What kind of sauces have you been looking at?  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Smashie on June 30, 2018, 12:57:05 PM
........., and a man in England who got arrested for simply having a Vic 111mm in his car to cut food for his disabled wife.

It’s amazing how often this case gets used as an example, sad really as it’s not true.
This case was not what it seemed. The newspaper headlines did not report the facts.
The guy in question was not using a SAK but a lock knife and he threatened to kill another person.
Truth is important. :tu: :salute:
Do you have a favoured source where I can go read about that case?

Finding it is hard now but it dates back to 2010 and a lot of papers had to issue retractions when the truth came out.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Essexman on June 30, 2018, 06:00:03 PM
........., and a man in England who got arrested for simply having a Vic 111mm in his car to cut food for his disabled wife.

It’s amazing how often this case gets used as an example, sad really as it’s not true.
This case was not what it seemed. The newspaper headlines did not report the facts.
The guy in question was not using a SAK but a lock knife and he threatened to kill another person.
Truth is important. :tu: :salute:
Do you have a favoured source where I can go read about that case?

Yes

http://womanonaraft.blogspot.com/2010/08/thats-not-knifethats-knife.html?m=1

It’s a long read, take time.
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on June 30, 2018, 06:15:44 PM

Yes

http://womanonaraft.blogspot.com/2010/08/thats-not-knifethats-knife.html?m=1

It’s a long read, take time.
Thanks.  :cheers:

I’m surprised that you can use the religious excuse for justifying locking/fixed blade carry, when caravaning/fishing.  :rofl:
Maybe we should get the Cult of MTO registered as a religion with the various governments. ;)
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on June 30, 2018, 06:36:16 PM
Signed.

Me too... Actually... wait a minute, Mags what did I just sign?
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Don Pablo on June 30, 2018, 06:48:28 PM
Signed.

Me too... Actually... wait a minute, Mags what did I just sign?
Now I have a lot of new performers for my Disco Brothel! :dd:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on June 30, 2018, 06:58:35 PM
Signed.

Me too... Actually... wait a minute, Mags what did I just sign?
Now I have a lot of new performers for my Disco Brothel! :dd:

Cool - got my costume sorted n everythink!  :tu:

(http://u.cubeupload.com/Fuzzbucket/1F5A0EAF030C4E20BCEF.jpeg)
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: SteveC on June 30, 2018, 07:34:14 PM
 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: magentus on June 30, 2018, 10:23:29 PM
Signed.

Me too... Actually... wait a minute, Mags what did I just sign?
Now I have a lot of new performers for my Disco Brothel! :dd:

Cool - got my costume sorted n everythink!  :tu:

(http://u.cubeupload.com/Fuzzbucket/1F5A0EAF030C4E20BCEF.jpeg)
I like your t-shirt Fuzzy
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: dks on October 21, 2018, 10:33:21 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/21/trauma-doctors-knife-crime-epidemic-nhs-hospitals

related
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on January 11, 2019, 07:11:26 AM
Well this just happened  :facepalm:

https://www.namibian.com.na/74514/read/Carrying-pocket-knives-sticks-punishable-by-law (https://www.namibian.com.na/74514/read/Carrying-pocket-knives-sticks-punishable-by-law)

Please note, a law from 1956  :rant:
Title: Re: Knife laws getting more intense in UK?
Post by: Nix on January 12, 2019, 03:01:38 AM
Guilty, unless you can be proven innocent.   :(