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Tool Talk => General Tool Discussion => Topic started by: Grant Lamontagne on April 16, 2018, 11:59:29 PM

Title: What's the worst?
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on April 16, 2018, 11:59:29 PM
Since Nix says he struggles with quizzes I figured I'd start another one!   >:D

The quizzes are awlways a struggle for me.....

There's an old proverb that says even monkeys fall out of trees, which basically means that even the best can screw up, so here's your chance to pick out what you think is the absolute worst model from each of the major brands- Leatherman, Victorinox, Gerber, SOG and CRKT.

And any other brands you want to add- be they knives, multitools, whatever.

For me, my list of the big guys would be:

Leatherman Rev- seriously, what the hell were they thinking?  Were they sitting around the boardroom table and saying "look, the Sidekick and Wingman are bad, but they are still kind of useful, what can we come up with that is even worse?"

Victorinox AutoTool- This one was part of the lifestyle series and was a complete screwup.  It was a solution to a problem no one was having, and an overly complex and bulky one at that.  One of the reasons the Swiss Army Knife concept was popular was because it was convenient, which the Autotool absolutely wasn't. 

Gerber Evolution- this was a really cool concept, with it's interchangeable plier heads, but again, they missed the mark on convenience.  The plier heads didn't retract so it was pretty similar to carrying a normal set of pliers, only with less comfortable handles.  And the sheath was HUGE because it had to carry either 2 spare heads or 6 spare heads, depending on which version you had.

SOG MACV- Really?  I mean.... really?  Of all the successes and failures SOG has had, this is perhaps the one that irks me the most.  Rather than make a useful tool, they purposely set out to compromise the tool by making it look like their ultra cool tactical type logo.  Give me something functional instead of something cute any day.

CRKT Lumabiner- The guy that designed this one, Tom Stokes is a friend, and so I feel bad about picking this one, but then despite it not being a great tool, it really wasn't intended for much, so I guess it at least hits the mark.  Whatever mark that is...

So what do you think was the worst from each manufacturer?  And, if you like any of the above tools, feel free to defend their honor!   :pok:

Def
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ColoSwiss on April 17, 2018, 12:17:16 AM
 :worthless:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ColoSwiss on April 17, 2018, 12:19:13 AM
I'll add the Wenger Business Tool. Basically an over-priced stapler that helped put Wenger out of business.

Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Kampfer on April 17, 2018, 12:21:27 AM
Rev is very bad, i got one for free and i still returned it for credit.
Signal is seriously overrated and I don't understand why people like it so much.
Tread is a joke. :whistle:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: PTRSAK on April 17, 2018, 12:28:22 AM
One word...  Dime.     :rant:


It could have been so much, but it feels like a Chinese knockoff of something that missed the mark.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Nix on April 17, 2018, 12:38:43 AM
This is why I failed third grade...... :whistle:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ThundahBeagle on April 17, 2018, 02:20:24 AM
Nothing against anyone who likes any of these. Just one guy's opinions.

Leatherman - where to start? Thier older or more classic designs are best for me, including newer stuff based on older designs, but the bad? Well there is a three way tie. The REV was a big mistake. If the Sidekick and the Wingman differ essentially in that one has a scissors and the other a saw, the REV should have had both but has neither...

That being said, that silly, overly expensive, under useful Tread? C'mon.

Aside from those two, the Skeletool that cost $70 at the least with 7 tools (a stretch), while my $50 Reba has so many tools. I can't see paying $20 more bucks for 10 fewer tools. I just cant.

Vic - I know I am in the minority on this but the Classic baffles me. The anemic blade is so tiny, I can just about use it to open letters. And few people send letters these days. My PS4 isn't much bigger but at least has a blade with some belly. So does my Micro and the Classic has nothing on either of those except less weight, which I would expect from a tool that is not much more useful than nail clippers/ file

Gerber - Don't own one. Would love an original Mr. Pinchy, though.

SOG- Don't own one. Can't see myself purchasing one, as it does not appear to have anything over a Leatherman.

CRKT - The only one I own is an Ed Halligan design K.I.S.S. and I like it. I used it so much I broke the tip off. Some of the fixed blade designs seem wild for no other purpose than to design a wild looking blade, though...
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Chako on April 17, 2018, 04:31:43 AM
Lots of good bad ones already mentioned. I gave it a thought, and here are a few of the bad designs. I have quite a few more actually but these are the ones that quickly came to mind.

Victorinox Sport Ratchet.

Think similar size to the 111mm knives but more boxier and awkward to handhold. Includes the tweezer and toothpick as a weird afterthought that fleshes out the tools limited functions. Part of the Lifestyle collection.

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4861small_zpsc4ni9ygx.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4861small_zpsc4ni9ygx.jpg.html)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4862small_zpstk6drewv.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4862small_zpstk6drewv.jpg.html)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4863small_zpslvilvbnj.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4863small_zpslvilvbnj.jpg.html)

Victorinox Auto Tool.

Def pretty much said it all. So old the included light is an old school incandescent bulb. The included ice scrapper is the real kicker here though. It is hard to deploy, and I do not know of too many folks who would use one seeing as the Auto Tool wasn't cheap to begin with.

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4864small_zpsu8p1kxh9.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4864small_zpsu8p1kxh9.jpg.html)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4865small_zpsvachqbad.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4865small_zpsvachqbad.jpg.html)

Gerber Recoil.

Who ever thought that installing a powerful spring launched plier activated by a press button was a good idea should be made to watch Barney the Purple Dinosaur videos on a 48 hour loop.

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4866small_zpssklqxs9u.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4866small_zpssklqxs9u.jpg.html)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4868small_zpsj9oqa0f5.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4868small_zpsj9oqa0f5.jpg.html)

Camillus Les Stroud Multi-tool.

This tool is so big and bulky that the designers had to go the extra mile to make it so. They started by installing large spacers between the tools. Then they added a big rubber/plastic cover over everything. Bonus points for just taking the flashlight/whistle and fire steel parts from the knife series and just adding them to this sorry excuse of a multi-tool.

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4869small_zpsjrap1luy.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4869small_zpsjrap1luy.jpg.html)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4870small_zpspk0swrnz.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4870small_zpspk0swrnz.jpg.html)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4871small_zps8totghju.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4871small_zps8totghju.jpg.html)

Leatherman Signal.

I never did take a shine to the Signal. I just find the removable bits are a tad small and fiddly to take off and attach to the main tool. The smallish whistle is on the anemic side.

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4872small_zpsq00kw3bl.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4872small_zpsq00kw3bl.jpg.html)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4874small_zps1isbbnuj.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4874small_zps1isbbnuj.jpg.html)

Swiss Bricks.

I save the truly awful for last. The Swiss Bricks is a misguided attempt to mate the function of a swiss army knife with the fun factor of Legos. Problem is, this tool is neither functional or fun. Where do I start? This is so bad on so many fronts I am left speechless.

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4875small_zpskwpvylo8.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4875small_zpskwpvylo8.jpg.html)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4876small_zpsppqp4oo6.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4876small_zpsppqp4oo6.jpg.html)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4877small_zps1dkiwvbc.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4877small_zps1dkiwvbc.jpg.html)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4878small_zpshy80uwqq.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4878small_zpshy80uwqq.jpg.html)
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Lynn LeFey on April 17, 2018, 04:41:00 AM
The Camillus Les Stroud Engage? Heck... it ain't even bulletproof! Let alone how it flies apart when exposed to a few kilos of C4!  :rofl:

The Leatherman Carabiner. It's a non-load carrying carabiner that costs $10. Why?

The red LED version of the Victorinox Swisslite. I think I'd LOVE the white LED version.

The SOG Powerlock. I hated every single thing about it except for the compound leverage plier head.

My original Black Gerber Dime. The new one seems to built to a better standard.

CRKT Eat'n tool. Just...  :facepalm:

Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 17, 2018, 05:03:30 AM
Some of the answers here are odd, but this thread is purely subjective from what I gather. So here are a few of my worst of the worse.

Leatherman:
Flair. It was supposed to be the debonair PST. What it was is a silly novelty MT. Butter blade and cocktail fork are fails.
Style. Any of them. Tiny and weak compated to the Squirt and Micra.

Gerber:
Radius . Huge, plastic frame flexes like crazy, and has very few tools for the size that are awkwardly placed in the handles.
Steady . A multitool made with the primary function being a 3" tall camera tripod? What the hell?

Victorinox:
Limited editions . Cost much more than the basic versions and don't take a red cent more to make in their almost purely robotic production facility.
MiniChamp . This should have been called the Classic Deluxe or something. It is too small to called a 'Champ'. It is useless compared to a full size SwissChamp. But, it is more useful than a Classic. Almost anything is more useful than a Classic though.

SOG:
PowerDuo. What the hell SOG? Anyone who owns one know what I mean when I say that.

There are too many fails and near fails from the MT companies to count. :facepalm:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Mechanickal on April 17, 2018, 07:00:37 AM
So far I've learned why Def gave away so many MacV tools last year :whistle:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Corwyn on April 17, 2018, 08:11:16 AM
I'll add the Wenger Business Tool. Basically an over-priced stapler that helped put Wenger out of business.

I seriously love my Wenger Business Tool to death. I use it a dozen times every day and every day people look at it in awe at the amazing little jewel and incredible piece of engineering.

I use it 10 times more than all my other tools combined.

All said, yes, it is an overpriced (flimsy) stapler that put Wenger out of business, and yes the plastic on it cracks if you fart towards it but It's truly a great and unique tool... if it was cheaper, people would have flocked to get it...
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 17, 2018, 08:17:11 AM
I'll add the Wenger Business Tool. Basically an over-priced stapler that helped put Wenger out of business.
Did it really?  :think:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Corwyn on April 17, 2018, 08:20:46 AM
Aside from those two, the Skeletool that cost $70 at the least with 7 tools (a stretch), while my $50 Reba has so many tools. I can't see paying $20 more bucks for 10 fewer tools. I just cant.

Vic - I know I am in the minority on this but the Classic baffles me. The anemic blade is so tiny, I can just about use it to open letters. And few people send letters these days. My PS4 isn't much bigger but at least has a blade with some belly. So does my Micro and the Classic has nothing on either of those except less weight, which I would expect from a tool that is not much more useful than nail clippers/ file

Sorry, can't concur. The SkeleTool is light, has a gorgeous design and great ergonomics. Really if you use a knife, pliers and screwdrivers on your multitool, that's all you need. 90% I keep my Charge, Spirit or MP400 at home and just take my trusty SkeleTool.

Also about the Classic I beg to differ. It is an amazing tool. Light, small, strong, beautiful. It has a great nail file and cleaner, the best scissors on the market, good T&T and the blade is far more capable than you would think (I used it it for carving wood, cutting thick leather, rubber, heavy sacks, cardboard and the tiny blade came through. I prefer the Rambler with the added tiny Philips and cap lifter and maybe a led on the scales.
I fail to see what a PS4 bring over a Rambler... everything is clunckier and less powerfull... really it only has pliers... I have a Styple PS, a couple of Gerber Dimes and never used their pliers for anything.. they are too flimsy for pretty much any work that requires a plier... you can't even get a proper grip... they do make good tweezers for pulling nose hairs, though  :pommel:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Corwyn on April 17, 2018, 08:26:09 AM
I'll add the Wenger Business Tool. Basically an over-priced stapler that helped put Wenger out of business.
Did it really?  :think:

That's the story: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=32653.0

They were limping pretty hard after the 9-11 ban on knives and spending their money on stuff like the oboe tool, the snowboard tool and similar "highly useful and marketable" gimmicks.

The Business Tool took 6 years of design and bucketloads of money to develop. It was a good product, but not many people would spend a couple of hundred dollars on a glorified stapler.

It's considered to have been the final nail in the Wenger coffin...
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Corwyn on April 17, 2018, 08:31:56 AM
It's considered to have been the final nail in the Wenger coffin...

Hehe... I said Wenger coffin  :facepalm:

(http://files.clickweb.home.pl/homepl26808/image/dsc_0766_4.jpg)
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 17, 2018, 08:37:29 AM
Camillus Les Stroud Multi-tool.

This tool is so big and bulky that the designers had to go the extra mile to make it so. They started by installing large spacers between the tools. Then they added a big rubber/plastic cover over everything. Bonus points for just taking the flashlight/whistle and fire steel parts from the knife series and just adding them to this sorry excuse of a multi-tool.

Show content
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4869small_zpsjrap1luy.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4869small_zpsjrap1luy.jpg.html)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4870small_zpspk0swrnz.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4870small_zpspk0swrnz.jpg.html)

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4871small_zps8totghju.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4871small_zps8totghju.jpg.html)

Still, Lynn's review (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=51479.0) has provided hours of entertainment. :like:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 17, 2018, 08:44:05 AM
That's the story: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=32653.0

They were limping pretty hard after the 9-11 ban on knives and spending their money on stuff like the oboe tool, the snowboard tool and similar "highly useful and marketable" gimmicks.

The Business Tool took 6 years of design and bucketloads of money to develop. It was a good product, but not many people would spend a couple of hundred dollars on a glorified stapler.

It's considered to have been the final nail in the Wenger coffin...

wow. That's so interesting. These were on Amazon not long ago, for a fraction of their original price. Should have jumped on the opportunity.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 17, 2018, 09:05:54 AM
Going through my collection, I have some tools I do not like.

Leatherman
Wingman: Ordered two, and they were both terrible. Scissors were too tight in their handle, even when the screw was loose. The scissor blades did not close all the way to the tip, and deploying the blade was like holding a bunch of coins in my hand. Talk about rattling. The two replacements I received were the exact same low quality pieces of junk. This was the reason I got a Rebar. Now that's a tool.

Core: I do not know why this exists. While I do not hate it, I see no reason for it to exist. The ST300 was the natural way to go after the ST200. Put the outer locking tabs and update the implements. Why did they instead go for zytel inserts and thinner handles? Why did the handles not simply curve at the pliers end? I use it every now and then to get my money's worth. Saving grace are the great implements and pliers.

Squirt PS4: The scissors spring is what I do not like. LM knows it is too thin and breaks often. Why are no steps being taken to fix this? I prefer my P4.


SOG
PowerLock: I hate this thing. I hate every implement, the flimsy locking tabs, the rattly lock-up, the weak Phillips, the warranty that only covers the handles and plier, the terrible handle covers that add a step to opening something and make the handles not close flush, the exposed gears, the handle splay when gripping something. I got a SS and a BO for my collection, and thought I'd use them. I did once, while fixing my curtain beam. Hated every second of it. The good thing is that you can put Leatherman implements in there.

Things I do not have and will never get are:
The half Juice with the scissors and corkscrew. I think it is ugly. I'd rather use a sak.
LM Freestyle. I see no point in buying one. Barely a multi-tool.
The SOG PowerDuo does not do it for me. So many issues with quality control. I'll stay away.

Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on April 17, 2018, 11:23:32 AM

...

Victorinox:
MiniChamp . This should have been called the Classic Deluxe or something. It is too small to called a 'Champ'. It is useless compared to a full size SwissChamp. But, it is more useful than a Classic. Almost anything is more useful than a Classic though.

...


What?!?  :ahhh...


...What?!?....  :ahhh...


Everything else you said though - spot on!  :D
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Corwyn on April 17, 2018, 12:37:09 PM

...

Victorinox:
MiniChamp . This should have been called the Classic Deluxe or something. It is too small to called a 'Champ'. It is useless compared to a full size SwissChamp. But, it is more useful than a Classic. Almost anything is more useful than a Classic though.

...


What?!?  :ahhh...


...What?!?....  :ahhh...


Everything else you said though - spot on!  :D

Honestly I am not that crazy about the Minichamp either... it has too much crap shoved in there to make the count... I mean, the coke spoon (Cuticle Pusher), penile measurement device (Screwdriver-ruler) and Finger-poking apparatus (Cut-and-picker blade) are ridiculous afterthoughts that bring lots of width but 0 useability.

The Rambler is so much better designed.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 17, 2018, 01:49:46 PM

...

Victorinox:
MiniChamp . This should have been called the Classic Deluxe or something. It is too small to called a 'Champ'. It is useless compared to a full size SwissChamp. But, it is more useful than a Classic. Almost anything is more useful than a Classic though.

...


What?!?  :ahhh...


...What?!?....  :ahhh...


Everything else you said though - spot on!  :D
  :surrender: :rofl:

Admittedly, I have a minichamp and classic. Actually, I own all of the tools I mentioned. :facepalm:

Thank you, Fuzzbucket! :cheers:



...

Victorinox:
MiniChamp . This should have been called the Classic Deluxe or something. It is too small to called a 'Champ'. It is useless compared to a full size SwissChamp. But, it is more useful than a Classic. Almost anything is more useful than a Classic though.

...


What?!?  :ahhh...


...What?!?....  :ahhh...


Everything else you said though - spot on!  :D

Honestly I am not that crazy about the Minichamp either... it has too much crap shoved in there to make the count... I mean, the coke spoon (Cuticle Pusher), penile measurement device (Screwdriver-ruler) and Finger-poking apparatus (Cut-and-picker blade) are ridiculous afterthoughts that bring lots of width but 0 useability.

The Rambler is so much better designed.

 :rofl: That sums it up fairly well, Corwyn! :cheers:
On the plus side, everyone should have a minichamp. Just to experience the audacity of it. :salute:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on April 17, 2018, 01:59:51 PM

...

Victorinox:
MiniChamp . This should have been called the Classic Deluxe or something. It is too small to called a 'Champ'. It is useless compared to a full size SwissChamp. But, it is more useful than a Classic. Almost anything is more useful than a Classic though.

...


What?!?  :ahhh...


...What?!?....  :ahhh...


Everything else you said though - spot on!  :D
  :surrender: :rofl:

Admittedly, I have a minichamp and classic. Actually, I own all of the tools I mentioned. :facepalm:

Thank you, Fuzzbucket! :cheers:



...

Victorinox:
MiniChamp . This should have been called the Classic Deluxe or something. It is too small to called a 'Champ'. It is useless compared to a full size SwissChamp. But, it is more useful than a Classic. Almost anything is more useful than a Classic though.

...


What?!?  :ahhh...


...What?!?....  :ahhh...


Everything else you said though - spot on!  :D

Honestly I am not that crazy about the Minichamp either... it has too much crap shoved in there to make the count... I mean, the coke spoon (Cuticle Pusher), penile measurement device (Screwdriver-ruler) and Finger-poking apparatus (Cut-and-picker blade) are ridiculous afterthoughts that bring lots of width but 0 useability.

The Rambler is so much better designed.

 :rofl: That sums it up fairly well, Corwyn! :cheers:
On the plus side, everyone should have a minichamp. Just to experience the audacity of it. :salute:

Well...

I hear what you two are saying... but... it depends on what you do/need it for. I bought mine years ago along with my OG Wave, because I was doing a lot of AV stuff at the time and I needed something small to keep in my pocket for inspecting and cleaning up old cables... and I was skint and didn't have a lot of money.

My Minichamp is now the oldest surviving SAK/Multitool tool I have and has been by far one of the most useful and it's precisely because it has lots of strange little odd shaped crappy metal implements on it that for me has made it invaluable. However, I'll admit, not necessarily for there intended purpose...s

Right, in true MTo fashion, let's go through them one by one:

Small rule - is actually a perfectly good depth gauge

Small flat screwdriver - was perfect for old school RG59 connectors

Orange Peeler - now, this might sound surprising, but it's brilliant for cleaning hooky velcro (try it, seriously there's no better tool) and it's also quite handy for catching small cables in tight apertures

Small wharny blade - great for picking small locks, it'll work on most small padlocks if you persevere and is pretty good for removing splinters - especially bigger stabby plywood ones

Coke spoon - okay looks useful, however, I'll admit I can't remember ever using it... probably excellent for putting baking soda into those small plastic submarines you used to get free in breakfast cereal

Scissors - outstanding, no need to go into them

Philips - pretty damn decent actually

Knife blade - okay

Tweezers - excellent

Pen - has scribbled down phone numbers when no other bloody pen could be found


Anyway, It's also a very beautiful compact little tool too... and often undervalued... in my opinion.

Apologies for the crappy pic... Oh and..  :cheers:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 17, 2018, 02:07:15 PM
Worst LM for me has to be the Tread. Just  :facepalm: Doesn't seem to fulfill a particular need, looks terrible (IMO) costs A LOT for a bit of jewellery. I'd put it in the same bracket as make up products for men.

Worst SAK. The actual worst is prolly the Stapler one - way too expensive for a stapler and half assed in every other department. A product looking for a market.
                      The worst otherwise for me is prolly any single bladed SAK - why? The thing the SAK brings to the table is a knife and a bunch of truly useful tools. Otherwise just get a penknife.
                      I agree about the limited editions too - For me, tools are for using. Nothing against those who get pleasure from collecting, but something as well designed as your average SAK and built to be used is
                      wasted on a shelf.

Not sure about anything else - my MT world is small.


Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: hiraethus on April 17, 2018, 02:10:44 PM
Worst SAK?  Yeoman.  No awl, dumb combo tool, no small blade, waste-of-space magnifier and stupidly high prices for second hand or small runs from one single dealer.  Just buy an Explorer, you muppets. :twak:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: hiraethus on April 17, 2018, 02:12:32 PM
Worst LM?  Wave.  No awl, too many blades, uncomfortable to hold, rubbish scissors, stupid little eyeglass driver.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: hiraethus on April 17, 2018, 02:14:21 PM
Oh yeah.  Second worst SAK?  Farmer.  No scale tools, no small blade, stupid keyring loop digs in to your hand when you use the saw.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 17, 2018, 02:15:26 PM
You ok Hun?  :D
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: hiraethus on April 17, 2018, 02:16:37 PM
Second worst LM?  Micra.  Floppy scissors, silly little inside-only tools, crappy tweezers.  Weighs a ton and does nothing better than a Rambler. :twak:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: hiraethus on April 17, 2018, 02:16:46 PM
You ok Hun?  :D

 :whistle:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on April 17, 2018, 02:22:21 PM
Second worst LM?  Micra.  Floppy scissors, silly little inside-only tools, crappy tweezers.  Weighs a ton and does nothing better than a Rambler. :twak:

Wave... Farmer... and the Micra!?!?!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/10xN50piM2GzUk/giphy.gif)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/4OowbIsmYHbpu/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 17, 2018, 02:24:08 PM
Second worst LM?  Micra.  Floppy scissors, silly little inside-only tools, crappy tweezers.  Weighs a ton and does nothing better than a Rambler. :twak:

Wave... Farmer... and the Micra!?!?!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/10xN50piM2GzUk/giphy.gif)
Leave it Fuzzy...............
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 17, 2018, 02:29:26 PM
Worst LM?  Wave.  No awl, too many blades, uncomfortable to hold, rubbish scissors, stupid little eyeglass driver.
You just wait until you start wearing glasses, then let us know how stupid it is. :pok: :D
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 17, 2018, 02:30:58 PM
This thread is like chickens jumping into a wood chipper. Ruffle them feathers. :rofl:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on April 17, 2018, 02:32:50 PM
Worst LM?  Wave.  No awl, too many blades, uncomfortable to hold, rubbish scissors, stupid little eyeglass driver.
You just wait until you start wearing glasses, then let us know how stupid it is. :pok: :D

Yeah...!
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 17, 2018, 02:33:29 PM
Worst LM?  Wave.  No awl, too many blades, uncomfortable to hold, rubbish scissors, stupid little eyeglass driver.
You just wait until you start wearing glasses, then let us know how stupid it is. :pok: :D
He already does. It's why Sparky can't tell us apart. Old cogger.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 17, 2018, 02:56:18 PM
 :rofl:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: gregpost on April 17, 2018, 04:44:13 PM
Leatherman:
The Skeletool is uncomfortable to hold in the hand, doesn't offer enough utility and is just kinda ugly. I also dislike the Rev for purposely gimping a good design platform to build on (Wingman/Sidekick) instead of improving it.

Gerber:
For me, everything made by Gerber is the worst. Everything I tried has felt like junk or a gimmick.

Victorinox:
No complaints here.

SOG:
I like SOG pliers frame and the gear multiplier on the older tools, the blades are pretty good. But every SOG model I've used has absolutely low quality tools. Using Victorinox and Leatherman tools give you a certain expectations of the tools and their actual usefulness. Sog tools fall way short. They hold back what could be some great multitools.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: dks on April 17, 2018, 07:00:13 PM
Dime

Powerduo

Own and use/used both of them

Any sterling silver SAKs are also too pretty to use
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: gregpost on April 17, 2018, 07:29:32 PM
Swiss Bricks is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. Thanks for posting Chako, had a good laugh.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: cody6268 on April 17, 2018, 07:35:09 PM
Anything from Protocol. The MSRP on those that I bought for $10 at a Tuesday Morning was like $30.  The fold-out pliers were too weak and the jaws started twisting with light jobs a PST would handle with no trouble. The blades were butter steel I couldn't get a good edge on, and the drivers didn't really function. Honorable mention goes to the Imperial Apex and Tradesman butterfly MTs--nothing on them worked, compared to the Irish Imperial knives I have--which are all great.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Corwyn on April 17, 2018, 08:06:29 PM
Any sterling silver SAKs are also too pretty to use

Lol... my sterling silver Minichamp mod is ond if my most used tools. Arguably I never take it out of the house, definitely not shying away from using it (in my shelf full of Classics I alwsys pick the sterling silver champ up...).
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ThePeacent on April 18, 2018, 01:52:29 PM
many have been said but...

LM "half-juice" series and most of their overpriced one piece tools, the Rev, the Freestyle and probably the Tread, the Signal seems like an unnecessary gimmick to me but I guess many folks see it useful and worth it  :think:
I doubt I'll ver have, get or gift one of the above

Gerber Bear Grylls and "Survival" stuff, maybe not junk but definitely overpriced and overhyped. Their Chinese MTs can be a true hit or miss (Dime, had 3 now 0 and couldn't be happier. Clutch, Splice are similar scheme), Steady and Suspension, and some of the oddities they've put throughout the years (Nautilus anyone?  ???)

Vic and Wenger overpricing of Limited Editions, and some odd things like the Wenger Business Tool and the aforementioned Swiss-Bricks, all overpriced and unnecessary and short-lived for a reason  :P

SOG's implement quality and QC failures/bad designs. They have the best plier heads and smoothes action but put garbage inside their handles,
and their tools have serious (and sometimes dangerous) gimmicks (assists, locks...) and failures
No need to mention the Powerduo here and some of their One Piece Tools (and the 50 SOG writings and wordings in all their stuff)

Some tools from CRKT that had potential but were forced to failure

Most gun branded multitools (Smith&Wesson, Browning, etc.) and their prices
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 18, 2018, 02:02:27 PM
The Taylor Brands Schrade Tough Tool is also something I will not get. I love my USA Schrade Tough Tool, and if I had two, I'd use one.
But the new ones, they're pretty bad.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Lynn LeFey on April 18, 2018, 06:56:31 PM
Worst LM?  Wave.  No awl, too many blades, uncomfortable to hold, rubbish scissors, stupid little eyeglass driver.

I have owned 3 Leatherman Waves, and a Fuse with the same scissors as the new Wave, and in each case, they have been some of the best scissors I've ever had. And I'm left handed.

They cut soft material well, they cut thick and fiberous material well, and they even cut heavy plastic well. So...  :think:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ThePeacent on April 18, 2018, 07:13:52 PM
Worst LM?  Wave.  No awl, too many blades, uncomfortable to hold, rubbish scissors, stupid little eyeglass driver.

I have owned 3 Leatherman Waves, and a Fuse with the same scissors as the new Wave, and in each case, they have been some of the best scissors I've ever had. And I'm left handed.

They cut soft material well, they cut thick and fiberous material well, and they even cut heavy plastic well. So...  :think:

+1 love them LM scissors  :dd:
Substituted the rubbish scissors on my SOG with them, much much better  :salute: (top left in pic)

(https://i.imgur.com/83QfnXo.jpg)

Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: shark_za on April 18, 2018, 07:29:54 PM

Worst Leatherman
Original Super Tool : take a tool that bites into your hand when you grip it tight and make it bigger. So it bites you more.
Oh and then add a lock that you cant undo if you open all the tools on one side.

Worst Victorinox
Electrician : Remove the can opened and Philips driver from the awesome opener duo and replace it with a little blade.
Come on.


Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: gregpost on April 18, 2018, 07:30:07 PM
Leatherman makes perfectly serviceable scissors. I think Victorinox and Wenger scissors are better in some models. The Surge scissors is excellent though but it's a very large tool. The worst scissor that Vic makes is on the Spirit, the design of that one is poor even if the scissor cuts well. The cutting area is way too small an area and opening for a tool of that size.

Still dreaming of Wave/Charge size with an outside slot for some cool redesigned Surge style scissors. That would be optimal.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: WoodsDuck on April 19, 2018, 02:52:43 AM
Leatherman makes perfectly serviceable scissors. I think Victorinox and Wenger scissors are better in some models. The Surge scissors is excellent though but it's a very large tool. The worst scissor that Vic makes is on the Spirit, the design of that one is poor even if the scissor cuts well. The cutting area is way too small an area and opening for a tool of that size.
Still dreaming of Wave/Charge size with an outside slot for some cool redesigned Surge style scissors. That would be optimal.


Yes, please  :gimme:

The Surge scissors are awesome.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 19, 2018, 03:14:04 AM
I don't understand the Flair being in this thread, because the only thing worse than the Vic combo tool is every single LM can opener and cap lifter except the Flair, and it has a functional corkscrew and nifty fork to boot! Who needs a hobo knife! :P

 :rofl:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 19, 2018, 03:16:40 AM
Glad I'm totally disinterested in the Micra now, I was curious for a while, thanks H.  :D
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 19, 2018, 03:18:46 AM
Not sure I agree about the limited edition Vics either, but then again I use mine!  :P
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 19, 2018, 03:36:01 AM
I don't understand the Flair being in this thread, because the only thing worse than the Vic combo tool is every single LM can opener and cap lifter except the Flair, and it has a functional corkscrew and nifty fork to boot! Who needs a hobo knife! :P

 :rofl:
Must be why it is LM's best seller and everyone's favorite MT. Oh wait... :pok:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: pomsbz on April 19, 2018, 07:02:00 AM
I'll vote for the Freestyle. The Skeletool is basic but at least provides function for it's minimalism. The Freestyle takes it too far though.

I'd also mention the SAK's with USB stick. In principle it's a good idea but the weight hanging off a usb port isn't going to be good for it and the thing guarantees to be obsolete within a couple of years.

An interesting fail I recently found was the Victorinox nail clippers. They look great, pack nice and small for travel but require far too much leverage to actually cut anything, you have to push the lever almost all the way down which isn't comfortable to do. Really wasn't impressed.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Yadda on April 19, 2018, 07:29:39 AM
Vise-Grip multi-pliers,  all three versions.  I own all of them, but the backward opening knife and the non-locking screwdriver make them dangerous to use and a huge fail for a major tool company.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Sam Lim on April 19, 2018, 07:58:44 AM
I'll vote for the Freestyle. The Skeletool is basic but at least provides function for it's minimalism. The Freestyle takes it too far though.

I'd also mention the SAK's with USB stick. In principle it's a good idea but the weight hanging off a usb port isn't going to be good for it and the thing guarantees to be obsolete within a couple of years.

An interesting fail I recently found was the Victorinox nail clippers. They look great, pack nice and small for travel but require far too much leverage to actually cut anything, you have to push the lever almost all the way down which isn't comfortable to do. Really wasn't impressed.

I actually find the freestyle very comfortable to use. Yes it just have a knife and a pliers. But people have to be aware of this when they go for it. The ergo of it as a knife is pretty nice in the hand. Pliers are ok-ish as a backup.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 19, 2018, 12:03:21 PM
I don't understand the Flair being in this thread, because the only thing worse than the Vic combo tool is every single LM can opener and cap lifter except the Flair, and it has a functional corkscrew and nifty fork to boot! Who needs a hobo knife! :P

 :rofl:
Must be why it is LM's best seller and everyone's favorite MT. Oh wait... :pok:

No, that's the Wave, surely that's not mentioned in this thread?  :D
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: WoodsDuck on April 19, 2018, 01:46:51 PM
Glad I'm totally disinterested in the Micra now, I was curious for a while, thanks H.  :D

Many people, myself included, have the exact opposite opinion. I say the Micra is one of the best Leatherman tools in production, and probably the best keychain sized model.


Now get out your wallet  :pok: :pok:  :D
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: hiraethus on April 19, 2018, 01:52:04 PM
Worst LM?  Wave.  No awl, too many blades, uncomfortable to hold, rubbish scissors, stupid little eyeglass driver.
You just wait until you start wearing glasses, then let us know how stupid it is. :pok: :D

I've worn glasses for over 30 years and I think I can count on the fingers of one foot the number of times I've needed to adjust the screws.  Instead of wasting money on pointless multitools you lot should buy decent glasses. :pok:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: hiraethus on April 19, 2018, 01:52:35 PM
Glad I'm totally disinterested in the Micra now, I was curious for a while, thanks H.  :D

Glad to be of service twiglet. :salute:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 19, 2018, 01:53:32 PM
I don't understand the Flair being in this thread, because the only thing worse than the Vic combo tool is every single LM can opener and cap lifter except the Flair, and it has a functional corkscrew and nifty fork to boot! Who needs a hobo knife! :P

 :rofl:
Must be why it is LM's best seller and everyone's favorite MT. Oh wait... :pok:

No, that's the Wave, surely that's not mentioned in this thread?  :D
:rofl:
This  thread has been very interesting and seems to point to a very subjective outcome for each user who posted.
Only common position it seems is the SOG PowerDuo. It'll rip your thumbpad off trying to disengage the locks.   :ahhh
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on April 19, 2018, 02:00:31 PM
Worst LM?  Wave.  No awl, too many blades, uncomfortable to hold, rubbish scissors, stupid little eyeglass driver.
You just wait until you start wearing glasses, then let us know how stupid it is. :pok: :D

I've worn glasses for over 30 years and I think I can count on the fingers of one foot the number of times I've needed to adjust the screws.  Instead of wasting money on pointless multitools you lot should buy decent glasses. :pok:

(https://media.giphy.com/media/ilkfz8Mn5Yz7O/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on April 19, 2018, 02:03:02 PM
Glad I'm totally disinterested in the Micra now, I was curious for a while, thanks H.  :D

Many people, myself included, have the exact opposite opinion. I say the Micra is one of the best Leatherman tools in production, and probably the best keychain sized model.


Now get out your wallet  :pok: :pok:  :D

I've only just got one for the first time ever and I think it's rather lovely - thank you Zoidbergy!  :salute:.... Mags and I - we're still getting the ponies though right?
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on April 19, 2018, 02:04:44 PM
I don't understand the Flair being in this thread, because the only thing worse than the Vic combo tool is every single LM can opener and cap lifter except the Flair, and it has a functional corkscrew and nifty fork to boot! Who needs a hobo knife! :P

 :rofl:
Must be why it is LM's best seller and everyone's favorite MT. Oh wait... :pok:

No, that's the Wave, surely that's not mentioned in this thread?  :D

Well...
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: hiraethus on April 19, 2018, 02:07:22 PM
Worst LM?  Wave.  No awl, too many blades, uncomfortable to hold, rubbish scissors, stupid little eyeglass driver.
You just wait until you start wearing glasses, then let us know how stupid it is. :pok: :D

I've worn glasses for over 30 years and I think I can count on the fingers of one foot the number of times I've needed to adjust the screws.  Instead of wasting money on pointless multitools you lot should buy decent glasses. :pok:

(https://media.giphy.com/media/ilkfz8Mn5Yz7O/giphy.gif)

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/247/207/813.gif)
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 19, 2018, 02:07:46 PM
Glad I'm totally disinterested in the Micra now, I was curious for a while, thanks H.  :D

Many people, myself included, have the exact opposite opinion. I say the Micra is one of the best Leatherman tools in production, and probably the best keychain sized model.


Now get out your wallet  :pok: :pok:  :D

I've only just got one for the first time ever and I think it's rather lovely - thank you Zoidbergy!  :salute:.... Mags and I - we're still getting the ponies though right?
Well I've had Princess Golden Sparkles for months now Fuzzy - I guess yours hasn't arrived?

Don't worry pal, I mated Princess GS with the Lord of the Eagles and she gave birth to a flock of Horseys with beaks (no wings though) who lay eggs. I'll send you an egg.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on April 19, 2018, 02:12:31 PM
Glad I'm totally disinterested in the Micra now, I was curious for a while, thanks H.  :D

Many people, myself included, have the exact opposite opinion. I say the Micra is one of the best Leatherman tools in production, and probably the best keychain sized model.


Now get out your wallet  :pok: :pok:  :D

I've only just got one for the first time ever and I think it's rather lovely - thank you Zoidbergy!  :salute:.... Mags and I - we're still getting the ponies though right?
Well I've had Princess Golden Sparkles for months now Fuzzy - I guess yours hasn't arrived?

Don't worry pal, I mated Princess GS with the Lord of the Eagles and she gave birth to a flock of Horseys with beaks (no wings though) who lay eggs. I'll send you an egg.

Thanks Mags - you're the best!!!
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 19, 2018, 02:14:44 PM
Glad I'm totally disinterested in the Micra now, I was curious for a while, thanks H.  :D

Many people, myself included, have the exact opposite opinion. I say the Micra is one of the best Leatherman tools in production, and probably the best keychain sized model.


Now get out your wallet  :pok: :pok:  :D

I've only just got one for the first time ever and I think it's rather lovely - thank you Zoidbergy!  :salute:.... Mags and I - we're still getting the ponies though right?
Well I've had Princess Golden Sparkles for months now Fuzzy - I guess yours hasn't arrived?

Don't worry pal, I mated Princess GS with the Lord of the Eagles and she gave birth to a flock of Horseys with beaks (no wings though) who lay eggs. I'll send you an egg.

Thanks Mags - you're the best!!!
Don't speak too soon. The eggs are bigger than the postbox opening. I've just mashed the entire flock!  :ahhh

I'm mating Princess GS with a salmon next so her spawn should be easier to post.  :salute:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on April 19, 2018, 02:20:36 PM
Glad I'm totally disinterested in the Micra now, I was curious for a while, thanks H.  :D

Many people, myself included, have the exact opposite opinion. I say the Micra is one of the best Leatherman tools in production, and probably the best keychain sized model.


Now get out your wallet  :pok: :pok:  :D

I've only just got one for the first time ever and I think it's rather lovely - thank you Zoidbergy!  :salute:.... Mags and I - we're still getting the ponies though right?
Well I've had Princess Golden Sparkles for months now Fuzzy - I guess yours hasn't arrived?

Don't worry pal, I mated Princess GS with the Lord of the Eagles and she gave birth to a flock of Horseys with beaks (no wings though) who lay eggs. I'll send you an egg.

Thanks Mags - you're the best!!!
Don't speak too soon. The eggs are bigger than the postbox opening. I've just mashed the entire flock!  :ahhh

I'm mating Princess GS with a salmon next so her spawn should be easier to post.  :salute:

... funny, I was just about to suggest that too!  :2tu:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 19, 2018, 02:23:50 PM
Glad I'm totally disinterested in the Micra now, I was curious for a while, thanks H.  :D

Many people, myself included, have the exact opposite opinion. I say the Micra is one of the best Leatherman tools in production, and probably the best keychain sized model.


Now get out your wallet  :pok: :pok:  :D

I've only just got one for the first time ever and I think it's rather lovely - thank you Zoidbergy!  :salute:.... Mags and I - we're still getting the ponies though right?
Well I've had Princess Golden Sparkles for months now Fuzzy - I guess yours hasn't arrived?

Don't worry pal, I mated Princess GS with the Lord of the Eagles and she gave birth to a flock of Horseys with beaks (no wings though) who lay eggs. I'll send you an egg.

Thanks Mags - you're the best!!!
Don't speak too soon. The eggs are bigger than the postbox opening. I've just mashed the entire flock!  :ahhh

I'm mating Princess GS with a salmon next so her spawn should be easier to post.  :salute:

... funny, I was just about to suggest that too!  :2tu:
Great minds think alike - That's why only you and I could've come up with the Cream of cream of soup idea  :tu:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Corwyn on April 19, 2018, 03:10:34 PM
I'll vote for the Freestyle. The Skeletool is basic but at least provides function for it's minimalism. The Freestyle takes it too far though.

I'd also mention the SAK's with USB stick. In principle it's a good idea but the weight hanging off a usb port isn't going to be good for it and the thing guarantees to be obsolete within a couple of years.

An interesting fail I recently found was the Victorinox nail clippers. They look great, pack nice and small for travel but require far too much leverage to actually cut anything, you have to push the lever almost all the way down which isn't comfortable to do. Really wasn't impressed.

Not true... the new Vic USB sticks are removable and replaceable so they will neither drag it down nor be obsolete.

(https://i.imgur.com/yRcJyon.jpg)

The Vic Nail clippers are just fine... they never failed to cut my hooves... I never had to exert too much force on them... I imagine they are not even made by Vic (they look so much like True Utility and other China ones) but really they work flawlessly... you must have her nails..

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/85/46/8f/85468f501250b9147b65a48eb5708948--gold-nails-nail-ring.jpg)
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: pomsbz on April 19, 2018, 03:16:27 PM
I'll vote for the Freestyle. The Skeletool is basic but at least provides function for it's minimalism. The Freestyle takes it too far though.

I'd also mention the SAK's with USB stick. In principle it's a good idea but the weight hanging off a usb port isn't going to be good for it and the thing guarantees to be obsolete within a couple of years.

An interesting fail I recently found was the Victorinox nail clippers. They look great, pack nice and small for travel but require far too much leverage to actually cut anything, you have to push the lever almost all the way down which isn't comfortable to do. Really wasn't impressed.

Not true... the new Vic USB sticks are removable and replaceable so they will neither drag it down nor be obsolete.

(https://i.imgur.com/yRcJyon.jpg)

The Vic Nail clippers are just fine... they never failed to cut my hooves... I never had to exert too much force on them... I imagine they are not even made by Vic (they look so much like True Utility and other China ones) but really they work flawlessly... you must have her nails..

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/85/46/8f/85468f501250b9147b65a48eb5708948--gold-nails-nail-ring.jpg)

The SAK's with usb sticks are now removable? I didn't know that.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Lynn LeFey on April 19, 2018, 04:21:56 PM
I've worn glasses for over 30 years and I think I can count on the fingers of one foot the number of times I've needed to adjust the screws.  Instead of wasting money on pointless multitools you lot should buy decent glasses. :pok:

I've worn glasses for ... eh... yeah, a little over 30 years myself, and in that time, I've needed to fix screws on them THREE times. And once was the day before yesterday... So, I'm probably good for another... like... ten years?

I 100% agree with not putting a micro screwdriver on a full size tool. Carrying one in the corkscrew of a SAK is fine to me. It's too light to matter, and doesn't take up otherwise valuable real estate. I'd also be 100% fine with a bit for the full size bit holder that was the micro screwdriver heads.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 19, 2018, 05:02:00 PM


I'm mating Princess GS with a salmon next so her spawn should be easier to post.  :salute:

So Cream of Pony Caviar will be on the menu soon?  :facepalm:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 19, 2018, 05:05:29 PM
Glad I'm totally disinterested in the Micra now, I was curious for a while, thanks H.  :D

Many people, myself included, have the exact opposite opinion. I say the Micra is one of the best Leatherman tools in production, and probably the best keychain sized model.


Now get out your wallet  :pok: :pok:  :D

Does it have a fish scaler? I think the Pony-Salmon spawn will eventually need grooming.  :ahhh
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 19, 2018, 05:06:04 PM
The ones that don't go through the blender that is.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on April 19, 2018, 06:03:35 PM


I'm mating Princess GS with a salmon next so her spawn should be easier to post.  :salute:

So Cream of Pony Caviar will be on the menu soon?  :facepalm:

...Born free, as free as the wind blows, as free as the grass grows...

(http://i.cubeupload.com/9vmXOz.jpeg)
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 19, 2018, 06:12:08 PM
Worst LM?  Wave.  No awl, too many blades, uncomfortable to hold, rubbish scissors, stupid little eyeglass driver.
You just wait until you start wearing glasses, then let us know how stupid it is. :pok: :D

I've worn glasses for over 30 years and I think I can count on the fingers of one foot the number of times I've needed to adjust the screws.  Instead of wasting money on pointless multitools you lot should buy decent glasses. :pok:
I see your point!
I would do that, except I'm not. :rofl:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: microbe on April 19, 2018, 07:02:37 PM
Anyone ever heard of the "Swissbeat MP3 player"?
No? Exactly my point.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: gregpost on April 19, 2018, 08:22:39 PM
A mini screwdriver is a lot more useful than a can opener. I've literally had to go out of my way to use can openers, just to test them.

Maybe it's different for people who go camping but the can opener is totally useless to me, and only Vic makes one that's always good and thankfully has a flathead screwdriver. In the modern environment a blister pack opener is more useful.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 19, 2018, 08:46:21 PM
Anyone ever heard of the "Swissbeat MP3 player"?
No? Exactly my point.

Yes, that is what I store all my yodeling music on.  :P
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 19, 2018, 08:50:08 PM


I'm mating Princess GS with a salmon next so her spawn should be easier to post.  :salute:

So Cream of Pony Caviar will be on the menu soon?  :facepalm:

...Born free, as free as the wind blows, as free as the grass grows...

(http://i.cubeupload.com/9vmXOz.jpeg)

Frightening.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 19, 2018, 09:12:24 PM


I'm mating Princess GS with a salmon next so her spawn should be easier to post.  :salute:

So Cream of Pony Caviar will be on the menu soon?  :facepalm:

...Born free, as free as the wind blows, as free as the grass grows...

(http://i.cubeupload.com/9vmXOz.jpeg)

Frightening.  :facepalm:
But delicious.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on April 19, 2018, 09:31:04 PM


I'm mating Princess GS with a salmon next so her spawn should be easier to post.  :salute:

So Cream of Pony Caviar will be on the menu soon?  :facepalm:

...Born free, as free as the wind blows, as free as the grass grows...

(http://i.cubeupload.com/9vmXOz.jpeg)

Frightening.  :facepalm:
But delicious.

... and a great source of Omega-3!  :tu:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 19, 2018, 09:36:56 PM


I'm mating Princess GS with a salmon next so her spawn should be easier to post.  :salute:

So Cream of Pony Caviar will be on the menu soon?  :facepalm:

...Born free, as free as the wind blows, as free as the grass grows...

(http://i.cubeupload.com/9vmXOz.jpeg)

Frightening.  :facepalm:
But delicious.

... and a great source of Omega-3!  :tu:

So how big is the caviar, basketball sized?  :ahhh
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 19, 2018, 09:45:06 PM


I'm mating Princess GS with a salmon next so her spawn should be easier to post.  :salute:

So Cream of Pony Caviar will be on the menu soon?  :facepalm:

...Born free, as free as the wind blows, as free as the grass grows...

(http://i.cubeupload.com/9vmXOz.jpeg)

Frightening.  :facepalm:
But delicious.

... and a great source of Omega-3!  :tu:

So how big is the caviar, basketball sized?  :ahhh
Dunno yet. I'm having trouble leading Princess Golden Sparkles to water. You know, like the saying.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ducttapetech on April 19, 2018, 09:47:28 PM


I'm mating Princess GS with a salmon next so her spawn should be easier to post.  :salute:

So Cream of Pony Caviar will be on the menu soon?  :facepalm:

...Born free, as free as the wind blows, as free as the grass grows...

(http://i.cubeupload.com/9vmXOz.jpeg)

Frightening.  :facepalm:
But delicious.

... and a great source of Omega-3!  :tu:

So how big is the caviar, basketball sized?  :ahhh
Dunno yet. I'm having trouble leading Princess Golden Sparkles to water. You know, like the saying.
Beating a dead horse? Or the other one?
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 19, 2018, 09:48:39 PM


I'm mating Princess GS with a salmon next so her spawn should be easier to post.  :salute:

So Cream of Pony Caviar will be on the menu soon?  :facepalm:

...Born free, as free as the wind blows, as free as the grass grows...

(http://i.cubeupload.com/9vmXOz.jpeg)

Frightening.  :facepalm:
But delicious.

... and a great source of Omega-3!  :tu:

So how big is the caviar, basketball sized?  :ahhh
Dunno yet. I'm having trouble leading Princess Golden Sparkles to water. You know, like the saying.
Beating a dead horse? Or the other one?
Lol. Either Nate.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 19, 2018, 09:53:59 PM


I'm mating Princess GS with a salmon next so her spawn should be easier to post.  :salute:

So Cream of Pony Caviar will be on the menu soon?  :facepalm:

...Born free, as free as the wind blows, as free as the grass grows...

(http://i.cubeupload.com/9vmXOz.jpeg)

Frightening.  :facepalm:
But delicious.

... and a great source of Omega-3!  :tu:

So how big is the caviar, basketball sized?  :ahhh
Dunno yet. I'm having trouble leading Princess Golden Sparkles to water. You know, like the saying.
Beating a dead horse? Or the other one?
Lol. Either Nate.

A horse in the hand is like two fish in a barrel of monkeys, or something very close to that.

I'll get my hat...  :facepalm:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Sea Monster on April 20, 2018, 01:07:24 AM
I don't have a personal pick for worst designed tools, but I will say that the design and release process of bringing something to market is almost impossible to get right the first time.

Any product you know and love is most likely the umpteenth (sounds high, but it is in the teens?) design phase of a product.

Whether the gremlins were sorted out during initial R&D, beta testing, or through multiple series of commercial releases (or all three) varies, but a team of top engineers with all the market research and unlimited money will still struggle to get the right product for the right market with all the right features first time.

I've always applauded CRKT for being willing to test the market with innovative (if not always successful) ideas.

I have less respect for brands that release products that it should seem obvious are poorly, or rushed designs to take advantage of a competitors release or simply cash-grabs. (SOG MACV seems like it might be one of the latter)


It is hard (seems to be random chance as much as anything else) to balance innovation and simplicity in a new design.

There's always someone (not necessarily just the marketing department, some designers are whacky too) that want to add more inane complexity, and there is someone who wants to just release the same product in a different colour.


"Ask the users!" you all cry?

as often as the users don't even know what they want until after they have it and have "tried" it for 6 months, the producers of the item don't even know who the users might be.

(anyone who says "release it in pink to increase sales to women" probably needs to go back to business school)



I just happen to be looking at my wrissmurfch at the moment (Seiko 5, for anyone wandering. Gear Nerds) - Do you know how hard it is to get a decent small size mens analog watch these days? Quite hard, I've found, because designers and marketers have no idea what I want.

Seiko released the "5" in the 60s, and it has not changed a great deal since. (SAKs are in a similar boat, and we all love those)

I've been distracted by some work stuff and forgotten my point.

Anyway, have some sympathy for designers and product engineers, and support those that are doing their best to engage with and support their customers, and also support tried and true designs that are doing what they are intended to do as well today as they were fifty years ago - otherwise some tit in sales and marketing will remove it from the product line.)
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: gregpost on April 20, 2018, 01:37:09 AM
Seiko 5 series is a classic so many different and great designs over the years.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: WoodsDuck on April 20, 2018, 02:23:18 AM
I don't have a personal pick for worst designed tools, but I will say that the design and release process of bringing something to market is almost impossible to get right the first time.

Any product you know and love is most likely the umpteenth (sounds high, but it is in the teens?) design phase of a product.

Whether the gremlins were sorted out during initial R&D, beta testing, or through multiple series of commercial releases (or all three) varies, but a team of top engineers with all the market research and unlimited money will still struggle to get the right product for the right market with all the right features first time.

I've always applauded CRKT for being willing to test the market with innovative (if not always successful) ideas.

I have less respect for brands that release products that it should seem obvious are poorly, or rushed designs to take advantage of a competitors release or simply cash-grabs. (SOG MACV seems like it might be one of the latter)


It is hard (seems to be random chance as much as anything else) to balance innovation and simplicity in a new design.

There's always someone (not necessarily just the marketing department, some designers are whacky too) that want to add more inane complexity, and there is someone who wants to just release the same product in a different colour.


"Ask the users!" you all cry?

as often as the users don't even know what they want until after they have it and have "tried" it for 6 months, the producers of the item don't even know who the users might be.

(anyone who says "release it in pink to increase sales to women" probably needs to go back to business school)



I just happen to be looking at my wrissmurfch at the moment (Seiko 5, for anyone wandering. Gear Nerds) - Do you know how hard it is to get a decent small size mens analog watch these days? Quite hard, I've found, because designers and marketers have no idea what I want.

Seiko released the "5" in the 60s, and it has not changed a great deal since. (SAKs are in a similar boat, and we all love those)

I've been distracted by some work stuff and forgotten my point.

Anyway, have some sympathy for designers and product engineers, and support those that are doing their best to engage with and support their customers, and also support tried and true designs that are doing what they are intended to do as well today as they were fifty years ago - otherwise some tit in sales and marketing will remove it from the product line.)

 :imws:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on April 20, 2018, 02:03:29 PM
Anyone ever heard of the "Swissbeat MP3 player"?
No? Exactly my point.

I have one, brand new in the box (http://swissarmyknights.com/articles/2010/april-2010/234-victorinox-swissbeat).  :D

(http://swissarmyknights.com/images/stories/April_10/SwissBeat/SwissBeat01.JPG)

It's what you get when you compromise your core product and follow the lead of a sportswear manager.

Def
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 02:26:42 PM
It has fantastic scissors too, I don't see the problem. Yodeleh hee hooooo....

 :2tu:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 20, 2018, 02:33:18 PM
It has fantastic scissors too, I don't see the problem. Yodeleh hee hooooo....

 :2tu:
Do you aerobecise to it Twiglet? While yodelling?  :like:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 02:39:54 PM
It has fantastic scissors too, I don't see the problem. Yodeleh hee hooooo....

 :2tu:
Do you aerobecise to it Twiglet? While yodelling?  :like:

And 2 hours of ocean waves for meditation afterwards! Wonderful device...  :dd:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 02:40:47 PM
Have you been watching me again?  :ahhh
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 20, 2018, 03:02:10 PM
Have you been watching me again?  :ahhh
Not directly. It would be like looking into the sun.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 03:13:33 PM
Yes, please keep your welding goggles in good repair. I have a Wave eyeglass screwdriver you can use.  :D
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 20, 2018, 03:15:22 PM
Yes, please keep your welding goggles in good repair. I have a Wave eyeglass screwdriver you can use.  :D
Please pop the entire Wave in the post then Twiglet. I need to tighten my goggles so I don't go blind during your next workout.  :ahhh
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 03:39:57 PM
A radiation suit is on the way, the Wave is in the pocket along with some 450spf sunblock. The suit is heavy, might wear your anti-grav boots too. Lookin out for you bro...  :cheers:

There's a playlist too so you don't have to soundhound everything.  :salute:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 20, 2018, 03:45:59 PM
A radiation suit is on the way, the Wave is in the pocket along with some 450spf sunblock. The suit is heavy, might wear your anti-grav boots too. Lookin out for you bro...  :cheers:

There's a playlist too so you don't have to soundhound everything.  :salute:
Thanks Bro' I 'preciate it. Does the soundtrack have any Rockin' Debbie Gibson on it?
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 20, 2018, 03:47:42 PM
If I could fall into the sky
Do you think time would pass us by?
'Cause you know I'd walk a thousand miles
If I could just see you

 >:D
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 20, 2018, 03:49:34 PM
If I could fall into the sky
Do you think time would pass us by?
'Cause you know I'd walk a thousand miles
If I could just see you

 >:D
Vanessa Carlton is a pale imitation of the amazing Debbie Gibson who even has the rockingest of guitars named after her. Shame on you Pabs.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 03:52:43 PM
Only in your dreams Bro, and there is some wonderful Bieber stuff on there, lack of real talent is so motivating!  :tu:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 20, 2018, 03:53:33 PM
If I could fall into the sky
Do you think time would pass us by?
'Cause you know I'd walk a thousand miles
If I could just see you

 >:D
Vanessa Carlton is a pale imitation of the amazing Debbie Gibson who even has the rockingest of guitars named after her. Shame on you Pabs.
I don’t even know who she is.  :ahhh ::)
I was only trying to search for the song lyrics that I remembered seeing here: https://what-if.xkcd.com/58/ :D
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 20, 2018, 03:54:53 PM
Only in your dreams Bro, and there is some wonderful Bieber stuff on there, lack of real talent is so motivating!  :tu:
I liked the beginning of Zoolander 2 because of Bieber (or his fate, rather.  :whistle: )
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 20, 2018, 03:57:54 PM
If I could fall into the sky
Do you think time would pass us by?
'Cause you know I'd walk a thousand miles
If I could just see you

 >:D
Vanessa Carlton is a pale imitation of the amazing Debbie Gibson who even has the rockingest of guitars named after her. Shame on you Pabs.
I don’t even know who she is.  :ahhh ::)
I was only trying to search for the song lyrics that I remembered seeing here: https://what-if.xkcd.com/58/ :D
OMG - Pabs, you have mistaken a Vanessa Carltion song for 'I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles)  by the Proclaimers  :twak:

Twiglet - You are constantly dazzling me with your mix-tape skillz - what could be better than keeping fit by trying to run away from the noise Bieber makes? Classic Twiglet!  :cheers: Thanks for keeping me on track Bro.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 03:58:29 PM
Isn't he wonderful Pabs? Really gets the adrenaline going!  :D
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 03:59:49 PM
He was going to buy a house in Atlanta a few years ago, we didn't let him.  8)
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 20, 2018, 04:00:29 PM
If I could fall into the sky
Do you think time would pass us by?
'Cause you know I'd walk a thousand miles
If I could just see you

 >:D
Vanessa Carlton is a pale imitation of the amazing Debbie Gibson who even has the rockingest of guitars named after her. Shame on you Pabs.
I don’t even know who she is.  :ahhh ::)
I was only trying to search for the song lyrics that I remembered seeing here: https://what-if.xkcd.com/58/ :D
OMG - Pabs, you have mistaken a Vanessa Carltion song for 'I'm Gonna Be (500 Miles)  by the Proclaimers  :twak:

Twiglet - You are constantly dazzling me with your mix-tape skillz - what could be better than keeping fit by trying to run away from the noise Bieber makes? Classic Twiglet!  :cheers: Thanks for keeping me on track Bro.
Who are the Proclaimers? :facepalm:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 20, 2018, 04:02:01 PM
It's Fuzzbucket and his twin brother Jizzbucket:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbNlMtqrYS0
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 04:05:38 PM
Before your time Pabs, back when one hit wonders ruled the airwaves. Be happy you weren't there. :tu:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Lynn LeFey on April 20, 2018, 04:07:37 PM
(Lynn looks around)

I see this thread has gone nicely off topic. Unprecedented in all of MT.O History, I say!  :rofl:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 04:20:03 PM
:kirky:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 04:23:41 PM
Love me do, there's an earworm for ya, ruined my childhood.  :whistle:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 20, 2018, 04:26:15 PM
NO BEATLES EARWORMS!

You've overstepped the mark there Twiglet - The Beatles are the Worst! Ooooo, back on topic!
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 04:29:01 PM
Too far off the rails, my apologies, but damned motivating innit?  :D
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 20, 2018, 04:30:22 PM
Innit just. I've got to stop running at some point though!
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 04:46:40 PM
Try booze, speeds things up a little at first, but with enough, some serious relaxation, and if your lucky, some Cream of Leftovers, or like we used to say on the bus, the Hot Lunch Special. (May cause side effects, consult a doctor for details, subject to availability, senior discount applies.)
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: microbe on April 20, 2018, 04:49:17 PM
Anyone ever heard of the "Swissbeat MP3 player"?
No? Exactly my point.

I have one, brand new in the box (http://swissarmyknights.com/articles/2010/april-2010/234-victorinox-swissbeat).  :D

(http://swissarmyknights.com/images/stories/April_10/SwissBeat/SwissBeat01.JPG)

It's what you get when you compromise your core product and follow the lead of a sportswear manager.

Def

I am really surprised you have one.
Maybe one day it will be worth a lot of money?  :pok:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: magentus on April 20, 2018, 04:54:57 PM
Oooo, senior discount! I'm in!  :cheers:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: pfrsantos on April 20, 2018, 05:09:09 PM
Seiko 5 series is a classic so many different and great designs over the years.

Yeah, unless you're the lucky guy who buys one, brand new, from a legitimate store and after a couple of years (3, 4 months after the warranty expires) of taking really good care of it, it just breaks and starts getting 10h ahead every day. Apparently, some production batches had this issue.

Price of new watch: €110
Cost of repair: €80

 :facepalm:

I'm now the proud owner of a very expensive non-precious bracelet with some (very fast) moving parts...

 :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:

Right now, Seiko has made my "no-buy" list, along with Timex (in the watch department).
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 06:11:30 PM
I had a Casio digital in the early 80's, but briefly, the plastic band and steel back were irritating, also I left it on the seat of the car on a hot day and when I got back to it the display was gone. That thing lasted about a week. Maybe they have worked this problem out since then, but it made me avoid cheap watches, particularly since wearing a wrist watch wasn't my thing, baby, yeah. Also I heard somewhere that Swiss Made watches were the best, but I couldn't verify that by my grandfather's Omega automatic, which I couldn't keep on my wrist for more than a half hour without getting a rash and many hairs ripped out of my arm. Maybe a worst-watch-ever thread is in order.  :D
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 20, 2018, 06:50:35 PM
I accidentally dunked my f-91w in a glass of water without noticing. It must have been in there for several minutes before I noticed. :ahhh :facepalm:

It didn’t stop working.  :like:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 10:06:52 PM
I accidentally dunked my f-91w in a glass of water without noticing. It must have been in there for several minutes before I noticed. :ahhh :facepalm:

It didn’t stop working.  :like:

Maybe they have gotten better, dunno, not going to find out.  :D

Vic says I can run over my INOX with heavy machinery, float it to the stratosphere on a balloon, dangle myself from a helicopter, chuck it off a three story building, and burn it out of a block of ice with a torch. I think I'm good with that. What I like about it is the titanium doesn't give me a rash, it's the little things...  :)
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 10:09:14 PM
Oh yeah, and I can read the time on it, surprised how many watches I can't afford that are completely illegible.  ???
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 10:26:31 PM
Here's the Omega "moon watch" or whatever. 10 grand for a watch you can't read. Junk.  :)
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 10:31:06 PM
"What time is it?"

Dunno, I only wear it when I'm driving my Tesla, let me check my phone...  :P
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Marcellus on April 20, 2018, 11:08:48 PM
Well Grant, I guess the topic just ran out of gas, that , or it was destined to crash and burn.

The takeaway appears to be - one person's worst is another's  " not so much"


Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 20, 2018, 11:16:04 PM
One person's "crash and burn" is another person's "elaborating?"   :D
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Chako on April 21, 2018, 12:34:25 AM
I was going to continue with a few more bad tools...at this time, I don't see the point.  :think:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 21, 2018, 12:47:07 AM
I was going to continue with a few more bad tools...at this time, I don't see the point.  :think:

Maybe should have saved the Swiss Bricks for last, no topping that.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Blackbeard on April 21, 2018, 01:38:59 AM
how could the wave even be mentioned in this thread? I vote we set the server on fire and start a new MTO with no record of this blasphemy.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: gregozedobe on April 21, 2018, 09:14:00 AM
Maybe should have saved the Swiss Bricks for last, no topping that.

I have a lot of weird, wacky and just plain unuseful MTs, tools like the Quirky is out there, but I think I agree, the SwissBricks are the worst.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on April 21, 2018, 12:19:24 PM
It's Fuzzbucket and his twin brother Jizzbucket:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbNlMtqrYS0


Oooooooowwwwwhhhh.... that's below the belt Mags...  :facepalm:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on April 21, 2018, 04:00:59 PM
Here's the Omega "moon watch" or whatever. 10 grand for a watch you can't read. Junk.  :)

I have a G Shock like that.  It is a GA-101 Dark Knight which looks amazingly cool in pictures.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161118/c213ab42fb9b21218780029a1f485aa9.jpg)

As cool as it looks, it is extremely difficult to read at a glance.   :facepalm:

Def
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: AlephZero on April 21, 2018, 04:26:43 PM
(https://2static2.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/I+have+german+sausage+handy+_33c370994d7b73c4fe0717828eb4f4b8.jpg)

That's about as much I'm going to take part of the Bash-fest  :twak:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 21, 2018, 05:19:38 PM
Here's the Omega "moon watch" or whatever. 10 grand for a watch you can't read. Junk.  :)

I have a G Shock like that.  It is a GA-101 Dark Knight which looks amazingly cool in pictures.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161118/c213ab42fb9b21218780029a1f485aa9.jpg)

As cool as it looks, it is extremely difficult to read at a glance.   :facepalm:

Def

At least the hands aren't black, and it was a fraction of the price, but yeah if I have to dig out my reading glasses or start carrying an Explorer just to read my watch, then it's pretty useless other than jewelry.  :-\
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: AlephZero on April 21, 2018, 05:23:24 PM
Here's the Omega "moon watch" or whatever. 10 grand for a watch you can't read. Junk.  :)

I have a G Shock like that.  It is a GA-101 Dark Knight which looks amazingly cool in pictures.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161118/c213ab42fb9b21218780029a1f485aa9.jpg)

As cool as it looks, it is extremely difficult to read at a glance.   :facepalm:

Def

(https://watch2day.nl/img/products/81315/111/casio-g-shock-black-chronograph-ga-100-2a1er-81315.jpg)

Got one as well, GA-100-2A1ER, not as hard to read  :whistle:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 21, 2018, 05:41:49 PM
Here's a $900,000 POS.  :D

Does it produce a drum roll when someone asks you what time it is, or what? Fanfare?  ???

The time it takes to read it would be more valuable to the person who could actually afford to buy the stupid thing.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 21, 2018, 06:04:50 PM
Here's a $900,000 POS.  :D

Does it produce a drum roll when someone asks you what time it is, or what? Fanfare?  ???

The time it takes to read it would be more valuable to the person who could actually afford to buy the stupid thing.
But it’s see-through!!!  :ahhh

 :rofl:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 21, 2018, 06:05:13 PM
Here's a $900,000 POS.  :D

Does it produce a drum roll when someone asks you what time it is, or what? Fanfare?  ???

The time it takes to read it would be more valuable to the person who could actually afford to buy the stupid thing.

For that amount of money, I would like some additional functions. Kitchen, living room, three bedrooms, car space with car, pool, garden, two washrooms, and a study.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Don Pablo on April 21, 2018, 06:09:19 PM
Here's a $900,000 POS.  :D

Does it produce a drum roll when someone asks you what time it is, or what? Fanfare?  ???

The time it takes to read it would be more valuable to the person who could actually afford to buy the stupid thing.

For that amount of money, I would like some additional functions. Kitchen, living room, three bedrooms, car space with car, pool, garden, two washrooms, and a study.
A house like that would cost a lot more, in many places, in today’s world.  :facepalm: :ahhh
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 21, 2018, 06:12:07 PM
Here's a $900,000 POS.  :D

Does it produce a drum roll when someone asks you what time it is, or what? Fanfare?  ???

The time it takes to read it would be more valuable to the person who could actually afford to buy the stupid thing.

For that amount of money, I would like some additional functions. Kitchen, living room, three bedrooms, car space with car, pool, garden, two washrooms, and a study.
A house like that would cost a lot more, in many places, in today’s world.  :facepalm: :ahhh

You're right. I'll buy a watch instead.  :salute:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 21, 2018, 06:28:05 PM
Here's a $900,000 POS.  :D

Does it produce a drum roll when someone asks you what time it is, or what? Fanfare?  ???

The time it takes to read it would be more valuable to the person who could actually afford to buy the stupid thing.

For that amount of money, I would like some additional functions. Kitchen, living room, three bedrooms, car space with car, pool, garden, two washrooms, and a study.
A house like that would cost a lot more, in many places, in today’s world.  :facepalm: :ahhh

You're right. I'll buy a watch instead.  :salute:

Make sure the house has a roof, or it will be as silly as the watch.  :whistle:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 21, 2018, 06:29:29 PM
Here's a $900,000 POS.  :D

Does it produce a drum roll when someone asks you what time it is, or what? Fanfare?  ???

The time it takes to read it would be more valuable to the person who could actually afford to buy the stupid thing.
But it’s see-through!!!  :ahhh

 :rofl:

So are the people that buy them.  ::)
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 21, 2018, 08:14:40 PM
Does it come with a battery, or is it extra?
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on April 21, 2018, 08:32:17 PM
Here's the Omega "moon watch" or whatever. 10 grand for a watch you can't read. Junk.  :)

I have a G Shock like that.  It is a GA-101 Dark Knight which looks amazingly cool in pictures.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161118/c213ab42fb9b21218780029a1f485aa9.jpg)

As cool as it looks, it is extremely difficult to read at a glance.   :facepalm:

Def

At least the hands aren't black, and it was a fraction of the price, but yeah if I have to dig out my reading glasses or start carrying an Explorer just to read my watch, then it's pretty useless other than jewelry.  :-\

Yes, it is indeed a much less expensive, slightly more useful watch, and so not as bad as the Omega, but trust me, the hands really blend into the other dials and hands and things and so you really have to spend time looking at it.

I bought the watch (or rather it was bought for me as a birthday gift) from someone here on the forum (yes, I know who you R  :pok:) and it is a beautiful watch that I very much enjoy having.  It's just not one I usually wear because it takes effort to actually see what time it is, and it seems I am a bit too lazy to spend time actually looking at a watch these days.  I have been spoiled by easier to read watches like the Orange Monster and various digital and smart watches I guess.

Def
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 21, 2018, 08:34:17 PM
Does it come with a battery, or is it extra?

Pretty sure those are self-winders.  :salute:

(aka automatic)
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 21, 2018, 08:39:26 PM
Here's the Omega "moon watch" or whatever. 10 grand for a watch you can't read. Junk.  :)

I have a G Shock like that.  It is a GA-101 Dark Knight which looks amazingly cool in pictures.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161118/c213ab42fb9b21218780029a1f485aa9.jpg)

As cool as it looks, it is extremely difficult to read at a glance.   :facepalm:

Def

At least the hands aren't black, and it was a fraction of the price, but yeah if I have to dig out my reading glasses or start carrying an Explorer just to read my watch, then it's pretty useless other than jewelry.  :-\

Yes, it is indeed a much less expensive, slightly more useful watch, and so not as bad as the Omega, but trust me, the hands really blend into the other dials and hands and things and so you really have to spend time looking at it.

I bought the watch (or rather it was bought for me as a birthday gift) from someone here on the forum (yes, I know who you R  :pok:) and it is a beautiful watch that I very much enjoy having.  It's just not one I usually wear because it takes effort to actually see what time it is, and it seems I am a bit too lazy to spend time actually looking at a watch these days.  I have been spoiled by easier to read watches like the Orange Monster and various digital and smart watches I guess.

Def

When I got my watch I went to the Vic website and brought up the different dial colors on one page, then I held my tablet at arms length to see which dial had the most contrast. Turns out the black dial was the most legible (surprising huh? :D), so I went for that.

And yes I am that neurotic.  :facepalm:

Heckuva nice gift btw!  :tu:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on April 21, 2018, 08:51:51 PM
It was a great gift indeed!

I can just see you getting up after being rolled by a couple of thugs.  The person helping you up would tell you they took your watch and you will respond with "that's ok, the joke is on them, they'll never be able to tell what time it is!"

 :rofl:

Def
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 21, 2018, 09:06:19 PM
What a relief!  :rofl:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 21, 2018, 09:24:06 PM
So my worst ever Vic was a 1938 Soldier knife, truly a nail breaker. I had to use a 111mm locking caplifter to get any of the tools open, and it was in perfect factory condition, well oiled and not stuck or bent or anything! The back springs were so stiff that it actually made me flinch to close the damned thing.  :ahhh
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: cody6268 on April 22, 2018, 12:18:25 AM
So my worst ever Vic was a 1938 Soldier knife, truly a nail breaker. I had to use a 111mm locking caplifter to get any of the tools open, and it was in perfect factory condition, well oiled and not stuck or bent or anything! The back springs were so stiff that it actually made me flinch to close the damned thing.  :ahhh

With my 1941 Elsener, it did that with the screwdriver and can opener when I got it, and after the first cleaning and oiling. I guess carrying it helped a lot--it's still got probably the strongest springs in my collection but is less prone to ripping out fingernails. Of course, yours is minty, mine's been to Hades and back with a blade that's an inch short, and sharpened with the "monkey with a bench grinder approach", screwdriver with welding spatter on the spine, blunt awl, warped scales, etc.  Could it have been that it was peened a bit tight?
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 22, 2018, 12:52:15 AM
So my worst ever Vic was a 1938 Soldier knife, truly a nail breaker. I had to use a 111mm locking caplifter to get any of the tools open, and it was in perfect factory condition, well oiled and not stuck or bent or anything! The back springs were so stiff that it actually made me flinch to close the damned thing.  :ahhh

With my 1941 Elsener, it did that with the screwdriver and can opener when I got it, and after the first cleaning and oiling. I guess carrying it helped a lot--it's still got probably the strongest springs in my collection but is less prone to ripping out fingernails. Of course, yours is minty, mine's been to Hades and back with a blade that's an inch short, and sharpened with the "monkey with a bench grinder approach", screwdriver with welding spatter on the spine, blunt awl, warped scales, etc.  Could it have been that it was peened a bit tight?

No, is was smooth and free, but the snap closed was like lightning on all the tools. It may have loosened up with lots of use and open-close cycles, but I got rid of it before it injured me.  :ahhh
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 22, 2018, 06:23:49 AM
Does it come with a battery, or is it extra?

Pretty sure those are self-winders.  :salute:

(aka automatic)

 :like:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: israelpiper on April 23, 2018, 08:26:55 PM
The first time I opened a Rev in store I almost sliced my thumb pad off. Serious chefs don't cook without tasting--and multi tool companies ought not to make thumb holes for opening knives without trying them out first.

The Signal--definitely NOT a good bushcrafter/outdoorsman tool. Doesn't come close to my Surge. Sadly, no awl on my Charge TTi or Wave, or they'd have been in the running for bushcrafting.

Victorinox hook placement. On some models, eg Huntsman, it is cheek-by-jowl with the split ring mounting and many of us cannot get a purchase on the darn thing. No point in breaking a nail just to declare, "Huh, what's this for?"   
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Syph007 on April 23, 2018, 09:14:28 PM
The worst?

For me, all one piece tools and anything with bear grylls name on it.

Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Lynn LeFey on April 23, 2018, 11:02:35 PM
The worst?

For me, all one piece tools and anything with bear grylls name on it.

I own the Bear Grylls Survival Tool Pack. And i like it quite a bit. It's the only thing with 'Bear Grylls' on it that ever interested me.

You want bad, go get an MT with 'Les Stroud' on it. :D
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: kirk13 on April 24, 2018, 12:41:11 AM
For my money,my worst ever was the SOG PowerAssist...
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 24, 2018, 07:40:36 AM
The worst?

For me, all one piece tools and anything with bear grylls name on it.

I own the Bear Grylls Survival Tool Pack. And i like it quite a bit. It's the only thing with 'Bear Grylls' on it that ever interested me.

You want bad, go get an MT with 'Les Stroud' on it. :D

Yeah, but, has Bear Grylls used his multi-tool in a survival situation?
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Vidar on April 24, 2018, 08:15:11 AM
Yeah, but, has Bear Grylls used his multi-tool in a survival situation?

No, because he is still alive?  :D
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: pfrsantos on April 24, 2018, 11:59:43 AM
Yeah, but, has Bear Grylls used his multi-tool in a survival situation?

No, because he is still alive?  :D

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on April 24, 2018, 12:46:23 PM
I guess that could be an interesting topic as well- Bear Grylls versus Les Stroud...

On the one hand we have a sensationalist with good tools that he rarely uses, and on the other hand we have a proper survivalist that rents his name up to whomever comes to his door with a spare dollar or two.   :facepalm:

This causes a lot of strife in our house because Megan is a huge fan of Les Stroud and I lost an awful lot of respect for him after seeing his Camillus branded tools.  I mean, it's not like they are good designs that are manufactured like crap (Taylor Cutlery, I'm looking at you....  :pok:) it's that absolutely every part of them is utter smurf.  Yeah, all the stuff that comes with them is handy for survival, but I can't help but think that if you are in a store and planning for a survival situation then you'd be better off buying a PLB, satellite phone and some water purification tablets instead of a knife with a length of paracord tied to the sheath.

Def
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 24, 2018, 12:49:44 PM
Yeah, but, has Bear Grylls used his multi-tool in a survival situation?

No, because he is still alive?  :D

So is Les, and he has used his multi-tool for survival. :multi:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 24, 2018, 12:51:21 PM
I guess that could be an interesting topic as well- Bear Grylls versus Les Stroud...

That was  my very first thought. You comparing the Engage with...  :think:
probably the BG-branded Suspension?

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on April 24, 2018, 01:00:45 PM
I guess that could be an interesting topic as well- Bear Grylls versus Les Stroud...

That was  my very first thought. You comparing the Engage with...  :think:
probably the BG-branded Suspension?

 :popcorn:

Actually, it's funny you should mention that- I received my first ever Bear Grylls branded multitool yesterday, and guess what?  It's a Suspension.

I'll admit they Bear Grylls line is somewhat over the top- it's hard to argue with the cheese grater for example, but at least there are good things in the line up as well.  I have owned several Bear Grylls Gerber knives and handled even more and they were all quite good.  I have handled a few of the Les Stroud knives, and they were all absolute crap.  Poor design and even worse execution- I don't care how many dump trucks full of money they park out front of my house, I wouldn't put my name on that crap, and I at least have the decency to admit that I am a whore, and my "brand" isn't nearly as valuable as Les' was.

As for the Suspension, yes, it is a terrible tool, but it is actually not as bad as it was.  After many quality problems, the Suspension at least seems to have stabilized into being a functional tool that doesn't break the first time you use it.  Gerber actually suffered that problem with a lot of their imported "big box store" tools in that timeframe- for example, for an anniversary celebration years ago Gerber had sent us a bunch of things, including a bunch of Crucials, and one was broken while still in the package.   :facepalm:

I'll never say the Suspension is a good tool, but I will say that if we are being honest, it's not as bad now as it was initially.

Def
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: pfrsantos on April 24, 2018, 04:51:40 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/d4/17/28/d41728867e3052c596e4f09dab9c8e5b.jpg)
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: twiliter on April 24, 2018, 04:54:17 PM
Isn't that a fast food joint in North Dakota?

I think they have buffalo wings too, whatever that is.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on April 24, 2018, 05:06:10 PM
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/d4/17/28/d41728867e3052c596e4f09dab9c8e5b.jpg)

Notice even Les isn't carrying one of his own monstrosities....

And given that both his sweater and vest (and more importantly, the Columbia logos on both) are clearly visible I have to wonder if that's yet another endorsement photo.  I hope Columbia did a better job than Camillus did....  :facepalm:

Def
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: pfrsantos on April 24, 2018, 05:11:15 PM
I still prefer him over Bear. In every show I've seen, Bear's "advice"/example is always worse...

 :o :o
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on April 24, 2018, 05:19:15 PM
I'm not arguing about their skills.... I am just talking about the products that have their names on them.

Def
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Syph007 on April 24, 2018, 05:27:35 PM
There are only a few brands I would endorse.  Assuming I'm not starving and desperate for money of course

Victorinox
Leatherman
Granfors bruks axes
Fallkniven fixed blades
Condor machetes
Bic lighters
Zebralight
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on April 24, 2018, 05:40:12 PM
I have my own list as well, although mine is a lot longer, with a lot of degrees, as in, I would endorse this company for this much $$, this company for $$$, this company for $$$$$$$ and so on.

I'm not against selling out, I am against selling out cheaply.  :P

Def
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: stugumby on April 24, 2018, 11:05:21 PM
Hmm Schrade tough tool. hopefully they will warranty repair mine, who knows.
Leatherman leap,, needs metal handles? every blade/tool is too short
swisstech.....
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Sam Lim on April 25, 2018, 04:20:07 PM
I would say the worst for me is the SOG Reactor.. Blade feels like its going to snap on first use.. Pliers points in the weirdest angle.. The material used feels more plastic than my son's toys...  :facepalm:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: pfrsantos on April 26, 2018, 12:50:50 PM
There are only a few brands I would endorse.  Assuming I'm not starving and desperate for money of course

Victorinox
Leatherman
Granfors bruks axes
Fallkniven fixed blades
Condor machetes
Bic lighters
Zebralight

Dude, really?!

 :pok: :pok:

Show content
You forgot MTo!

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on April 26, 2018, 12:54:29 PM
I would say the worst for me is the SOG Reactor.. Blade feels like its going to snap on first use.. Pliers points in the weirdest angle.. The material used feels more plastic than my son's toys...  :facepalm:

I actually really like the Reactor.  Yeah, there are a few quality issues, but I like that it is compact and reasonably useful. 

Def
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 26, 2018, 01:27:58 PM
I would say the worst for me is the SOG Reactor.. Blade feels like its going to snap on first use.. Pliers points in the weirdest angle.. The material used feels more plastic than my son's toys...  :facepalm:

I actually really like the Reactor.  Yeah, there are a few quality issues, but I like that it is compact and reasonably useful. 

Def

Isn't the PowerPint about the same size? But with more tools.
That could also be a race. New Suspension vs PowerPint. Or PowerPint vs Truss, if the prices are closer.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Sam Lim on April 26, 2018, 06:34:15 PM
I would say the worst for me is the SOG Reactor.. Blade feels like its going to snap on first use.. Pliers points in the weirdest angle.. The material used feels more plastic than my son's toys...  :facepalm:

I actually really like the Reactor.  Yeah, there are a few quality issues, but I like that it is compact and reasonably useful. 

Def

Isn't the PowerPint about the same size? But with more tools.
That could also be a race. New Suspension vs PowerPint. Or PowerPint vs Truss, if the prices are closer.

I am really looking forward to the release of the powerpint. It looks really compact with tools that are useful to me. I really wanted something smallish like the juice series for edc but with somewhat more useful tools.

Grant?  :pok: :pok: btw how's the de-assisting of the reactor getting along?
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on April 26, 2018, 10:25:42 PM
There is a serious road block to that.

I forgot where I put the Reactor.   :facepalm:

It will turn up sooner or later, although it does seem to be more a case of later rather than sooner.

Def
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on June 07, 2018, 01:57:20 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/d5q6rZK.jpg)

The Gerber Center-Drive.

It's a shame Leatherman did not take advantage of Gerber's trash talking.
Leatherman could just compare the Center-Drive to the Surge. The Surge is the competition, not whichever tool suits Gerber's weak arguments.

-Wire cutters: Cut a nail with the Center-Drive. Cut a screw. Cut coat hanger wire. Oh, you broke the wire-cutters? Sorry.
(https://i.imgur.com/0Cb6nZ4.png)

At least they're rotatable, so you can break all three sides.
(https://i.imgur.com/vOnxXXC.png)

On the Surge, you have 154CM wire-cutters, and stranded wire-cutters at the base of the plier head. I bet they'll last longer than the brittle carbide cutters of the Center-Drive.
"It was not designed for that." What does this mean? Was it designed to be weak? Gerber advertised it, quite aggressively mind you, as a heavy duty tool. My Surge can cut nails. My Rebar can cut nails and it's almost half the size of this. Hell, the Wave can cut nails. Not massive ones, but it can. Anything that could potentially ding your wire-cutters on the Wave, will definitely crack your Center-Drive wire-cutters. They are brittle, and any full-sized Leatherman wire-cutter set-up, be it replaceable or not, will outlast the Center-Drive's.
(https://i.imgur.com/TiMbctz.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/A5bUJQo.jpg)

-Pliers: Not quite needlenose, for precision, nor blunt for endurance. Not a bad design, although it won't win any beauty contests. Worryingly, I have never seen this amount of flex in any multi-tool, not even among the dozen or so off-brand multi-tools I own.
(https://i.imgur.com/ZseEbTi.png)

-Main blade: Same cutting edge length on both. Not 30% longer than the competition after all. Even the SuperTool 300 has the same length blade.
(https://i.imgur.com/8GL9Jak.png)

-Serrated blade: One-handed, longer, and sharpened on the Surge. On the Center-Drive it takes multiple steps to deploy, it is shorter, and faces inwards, and comes unsharpened. Not a single review I saw had a properly sharpened serrated blade. No wonder it was not compared to the competition.
(https://i.imgur.com/AJ7DwLK.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/tO12aDa.png)

-Scissors: Big strong scissors on the Surge, and outside-accessible.
(https://i.imgur.com/NJYPd6v.jpg)

No scissors on the Center-Drive. That's odd. Fiskars owns Gerber. Why not toss the serrated blade and put scissors in its place? You've got a big blade that's one-handed anyway.
(https://i.imgur.com/XL9IbQd.jpg)

-Saw: No saw on the Center-Drive. No saw on the Surge, if you have the file in there, but you can put other t-shank saws in there, woodsaws, metal saws, different lengths.
Gerber has a RemGrit saw holder on some of their multi-tools. That would have been a nice addition to the Center-Drive. It would really suit it, as a high-end Gerber multi-tool. It also accepts other blades so you could carry the one you needed.
(https://i.imgur.com/KyfZIa6.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DzwqfHd.jpg)

-Pry-bar: The Center-Drive has an angled nail-puller. The Surge has a large flathead. It is interesting to note that Leatherman calls this tool a large screwdriver. Many people will mention that you can also pry with it. And many people do. So why does Leatherman not call it a prying tool as well as a screwdriver? Notice that there is no feature on it to warrant the pry-bar moniker. No nail-pulling notch, no angle to it, no edge bevel, no L cross-section, all features present on the Center-Drive's implement.

The reason is that pry-bars on multi-tools never stack up to the real thing, like a multi-tool blade does with a folding knife, or a multi-tool screwdriver does with a dedicated screwdriver. A pry-bar is a wonderful thing, and the hundreds of chipped flatheads, broken blade tips, and halved files on multi-tools illustrate the point quite convincingly. Of course, an appropriately sized flathead could be used to pry, as long as the task is within reason.
The geometry of a multi-tool pry-bar is wrong. For screwdrivers, chisels, and awls, and blades sometimes, the force is applied to the tip, along the axis of the implement. For woodsaws, metal saws, can/bottle openers, and blades, you apply force against the edge, opposite of the pivoting orientation. No problem there. For a pry-bar, the force is applied to the sides, perpendicularly to how the implement pivots. This puts a tremendous amount of force to the weak-point, the holed section of the implement that the screw goes through.

Granted, some tools have addressed this issue. You can make the implement thick, like the overbuilt bottle-opener of the Victorinox Spirit. Still, while the thickness of the part helps, the broadness is also limited by design. A pivoting pry-bar will always be weak at the pivot point. An easier solution would be a separate tool, like the removable one-piece pry-bar of the Emerson Multitasker. Both decent solutions to the problem. Ideally, one could carry an inexpensive, dedicated pry-bar. It will cost little, and you can promptly replace if it fails, thus eliminating the frustration of having to send the entire multi-tool back to the manufacturer for warranty, provided they agree to replace a broken blade/flathead you broke by prying with it in the first place.
Looking at the Center-Drive and Surge offerings, I doubt you can do something with one that you could not do with the other. The Center-Drive's implement is short, arguably soft for the job, and the angle is not obtuse enough to provide leverage much greater than the Surge. For easy tasks both are equal. For demanding tasks, both implements are inherently weak and uncomfortable.
(https://i.imgur.com/IDAzb1o.png)

-Reamer: On the Surge, yes. That's a properly shaped reamer. The Center-Drive has a wide pointy thing.

-File: No metal-saw teeth on the Center-Drive, and it takes more steps to open it. The Surge file is diamond-coated, and removable. Not only can you use it to sharpen your Surge's blade, you can replace it with another one, or a nice Bosch saw.

-Locking tab is plastic on the Center-Drive. No plastic on the Surge.

-Bit-driver: Center-Drive has longer reach, and takes standard bits. I will agree on an advantage for Gerber here, but a marginal one.
Before Gerber made such a big deal out of it, it was never an issue to have a multi-tool screwdriver inline with the center axis of the tool. All other Gerber multi-tools have off-center screwdrivers. The awkwardness of off-center screwdrivers came from the bulkiness of the multi-tool they are attached to, not the screwdrivers themselves. And the Center-Drive is bulky. Butterfly multi-tools offer more positions by design. You can open one handle of the Surge for reach, or have it in a pistol grip configuration, which is what many people do. Also, the bit holder is only good if you carry bits. If we are talking sets and sheath-carry, then you have many more bits with the Surge bit kit, plus a woodsaw. You could also have the bit extender with the Surge and carry standard 1/4" bits, but let's give this round to the Center-Drive.

-Weight: 9.5oz for the Center-Drive, 12.5oz for the Surge. Three ounces more, for a big pair of scissors, longer one-handed serrated blade, longer reamer, two fixed flatheads, and metal locks. Quite a lot of additional weight, for quite a few features. It is interesting to note that the Surge is more compact, and there is a pocket clip you can add to it. Some users carry it like that. I have yet to see someone carry the Center-Drive in a pocket, despite it being lighter.


Conclusion
Gerber fixed the match to make the Center-Drive appear better than it is, cherry-picking functions and the tools they were compared to. That seems desperate to me. Gerber did not have to resort to such embarrassing promotional tactics. They are a big player in the multi-tool world. Their tools have been around for many years, and have lots of dedicated users. They had so little confidence in their new design proving itself, they abandoned real arguments in favour of juvenile insults towards their competitor. I guess it worked, seeing how many people have bought one and posted on YouTube about it. Did the Leatherman Surge users stop carrying their Surge? No. Why would they? Publicity was nice, but if you can see past the hype and the questionable glowing reviews, there is more to it. The Center-Drive is certainly nice, and a step in the right direction, but not without its flaws and limitations. A lot of people who bought the Center-Drive have returned it, either because of glaring quality control issues, bulkiness, or failure to perform to their standards.

The critical reviews could provide enough information on what works and what does not on the Center-Drive. Gerber may take the negative points people have raised, and turn the Center-Drive into a real winner. Scissors, woodsaw, RemGrit/jigsaw saw holder, proper reamer, double-sided bits, upgraded wire-cutters or their standard MP600 plierhead, higher end blade steel, all-metal locking tab. Maybe also have the bit set on the side of the sheath, so it protrudes less.

Until then, it is what it is. Gerber's flagship model. Praised by users. True innovation.
A Gerber multi-tool, with one-handed pliers that are not the strongest in their range. A bit driver that sits center-axis to a massive awkward handle. A main blade that is the exact same length of its competitors. And wire-cutters that are arguably the worst in the industry.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on June 07, 2018, 03:32:34 PM
Some good points there, that, even though I really like the Center-Drive I can't argue with.

However, I would like to point out one thing- the Surge is the only large multitool from Leatherman that has scissors.  None of the SuperTools, the MUT, the Core, the OHT or the Signal have scissors.  It is apparently a "thing" that "people don't want scissors on big tools."  Condemning the Center-Drive for not having scissors is like condemning it for not having a whistle since the Signal has one, or be compatible with the Otis cleaning kit because the MUT is.

Def
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on June 07, 2018, 04:05:46 PM
Some good points there, that, even though I really like the Center-Drive I can't argue with.

However, I would like to point out one thing- the Surge is the only large multitool from Leatherman that has scissors.  None of the SuperTools, the MUT, the Core, the OHT or the Signal have scissors.  It is apparently a "thing" that "people don't want scissors on big tools."  Condemning the Center-Drive for not having scissors is like condemning it for not having a whistle since the Signal has one, or be compatible with the Otis cleaning kit because the MUT is.

Def

I was comparing the features of the CD and Surge. In fairness to the Surge, I mentioned its scissors, and their absence on the CD.
I am not condemning the CD for not having scissors. It was just an observation. On the contrary. I am one of the very few members here that dislikes the Surge scissors. I'd rather have the Wave's set-up.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: temo on June 07, 2018, 06:18:53 PM
I have to agree with ReamerPunch. LM has best brand that you can actually do things with multitools. Like wire cutters are ment to cut things. Things that are harder that you could cut with scissors or with knife. Else those are just cosmetic list features.

Again I still like CD as well though don't have one. But see it has some good points. But as heavy tool should be able to do more then example with light skeletool. And even vic pocket knive pliers can be used quite heavily even those are small ones.

Sent from my VIE-L09 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ezdog on June 07, 2018, 07:58:47 PM
Its funny really that while I too can not argue with much of Reamer's feelings about the Centerdrive I still find it my new go-to EDC MT since getting it several months ago now.

I decided to give it a really long good shakeout trial before deciding how I felt about it especially compared to my long time EDC Spirit-X which I was positive I could not live without but......

I agree that the only useful tools to me on the Centerdrive are the Driver itself and the Pliers.
The rest is just crap in my way really.
The design and form factor are not anywhere as elegant or streamlined as any other tool that I have tried to EDC and I never use the knives as I always carry knives too.

But the thing that I now have realized is that for my use the MT is all about the Pliers and Driver anyway.
I wish there were a set of more tiny precision drivers like the tiny one on the Swiss but this is not a deal breaker for me.
The lack of a saw is the only thing I really miss in the end.

I wish it were less crude for sure and more compact and stored more bits and really just wish the Pliers and Driver were on the Vic but designed as they would be on there too but alas a guy can dream.

I also love and carried the Pinchy for years before there was a lot of choice in the MT world and should not be all that surprised I guess?

I have never bonded with any Leatherman though and I seem to break the ones that I have liked.

SO again for my use the one handed Pliers and Driver are the only thing I like about the Centerdrive but I REALLY LIKE THEM A LOT TOO!

I even have my Vic and CD setup in identical Skinth so I can easily go back and forth and I am not sure I have really wanted too since carrying the CD!
I just returned from a 2 Week Work Road Trip and only took the Gerber and I think I got more done with it than I ever have the Spirit and this is not something I am happy about in spirit either but it is what it is and of course YMMV too!
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: ReamerPunch on June 22, 2018, 05:29:17 PM
wire cutters are meant to cut things. Things that are harder that you could cut with scissors or with knife.

That's an excellent point. I am quite positive that even the scissors on the Surge can outperform the CD's wire-cutters.
Title: Re: What's the worst?
Post by: cody6268 on June 27, 2018, 09:33:50 PM
I feel Gerber's comparison to the Wave is quite unfair as I view the Wave as a "full size" tool, yet the Center Drive is in the "heavy duty" or "industrial" category, which is mostly what I buy because farm work is rough on regular MTs.  If they want a proper contest, use the Surge. I'd say why they didn't was because the Surge was superior.  Kutmaster had a centered driver on the MultiMaster just a couple years after the PST came out--and Gerber wouldn't produce their first MT until nearly 10 years later.

One thing I cut a lot of is fencing wire, in fact, I probably need to cut fencing wire more than I need to cut any electrical wire (I usually just cut scrap to test cutters). Heck, MTs have been sold with "can cut barbed wire" as a feature since the Barnett Plier Knife of the 1890s.  Gerber sold the MP600 Trailrider equestrian MT with that same tagline in the 1990s.   To me, if it can't cut that, it isn't heavy duty. I've cut fencing wire with my favorite HD MTs, the Schrade USA ST-1 "Tough Tool" and the Surge regularly.   Linesman's pliers are often sold with the ability to cut sizeable piano wire, screws, and nails. Until an MT is sold with the ability to cut the same stuff without damaging the cutters or the entire plier head, it isn't better than anything else on the market.