Post by: gerleatherberman on April 21, 2019, 06:54:22 AM
I'm expecting my P2 to arrive on Wednesday, and the P4 on Thursday.
Looking forward to trying them out and posting about it, which will be in this thread. The anticipation thread went off the rails a bit and might be confusing to potential buyers/collectors. So, that said, lets please keep this thread about hands-on Free P2/P4 experiences only.
So, anyone who has one already, what are your initial impressions?
And, to anyone with one on the way, what are your thoughts on what to expect?
Post by: Sea Monster on April 21, 2019, 07:28:19 AM
Post by: Sam Lim on April 21, 2019, 07:55:45 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 21, 2019, 07:59:43 AM
Initial thoughts.. ItS FrEAking OvErpriCED! :ahhhHow much did you pay for the one you ordered, Sam?
Post by: Sam Lim on April 21, 2019, 09:24:32 AM
How much did you pay for the one you ordered, Sam?
Same at $119usd not via LM site. It will be at least another 2 weeks before it reach me. Its not available at my local shops yet. The price will be sky high if it does. Expecting my local retail to be at least $150usd when it start selling here... :facepalm:
Post by: Jaypeebee on April 21, 2019, 10:56:09 AM
Post by: an0nemus on April 21, 2019, 12:16:54 PM
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 21, 2019, 12:28:02 PM
Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 21, 2019, 01:14:18 PM
Post by: Wspeed on April 21, 2019, 01:51:17 PM
Post by: Raoul Octav on April 21, 2019, 03:48:27 PM
I say PASS, although i saved the money.
There was an AMA on Reddit with the PM from LMN, in short no customization due to tight tolerances, yet the future can bring tshank and bitholder to the Free series (at least this is what is understood)
They gave us hope, yet it's a bussiness
If i get my hands on a P2 or P4, first video will be about dissasembly
Post by: genevabuck on April 21, 2019, 03:51:41 PM
200EUR in Europe for P4.
I say PASS, although i saved the money.
There was an AMA on Reddit with the PM from LMN, in short no customization due to tight tolerances, yet the future can bring tshank and bitholder to the Free series (at least this is what is understood)
They gave us hope, yet it's a bussiness
If i get my hands on a P2 or P4, first video will be about dissasembly
Interesting
Post by: Poncho65 on April 21, 2019, 04:07:08 PM
Great idea to start the owners club now that a couple people are getting them or have them on the way, glbm :like:
Post by: NetsNJ on April 21, 2019, 07:09:47 PM
Post by: Gareth on April 21, 2019, 07:24:12 PM
Post by: Antti Lammi on April 21, 2019, 07:30:29 PM
Only Tools Matters
Post by: Nix on April 21, 2019, 08:47:25 PM
I wanna know how good scissors in these MTs gonna have.
Only Tools Matters
:iagree:
Post by: McStitchy on April 21, 2019, 09:06:04 PM
:popcorn:
Post by: gilson65 on April 22, 2019, 04:53:32 AM
Post by: Poncho65 on April 22, 2019, 12:10:04 PM
Should have my p2 tomorrow :mail:
:popcorn:
:like:
Post by: Wspeed on April 22, 2019, 12:32:22 PM
Post by: Olives666 on April 22, 2019, 02:25:37 PM
So much so that i will sell a couple of LM’s that don’t get used as much.
Just waiting on some leather as I’ve run out, so I can design and make some sheaths/slips.
Post by: Wspeed on April 22, 2019, 02:38:06 PM
Post by: Aloha on April 22, 2019, 02:40:02 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on April 22, 2019, 05:18:43 PM
Nice one Olives look forward to see what sheaths you will make :popcorn: :like:
:iagree: :popcorn:
Post by: tango44 on April 22, 2019, 06:33:42 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 22, 2019, 06:38:24 PM
Love my P2. Used it over the weekend and have it with me now at work :tu:Awesome to read about your experience with the P2, Olives! :like:
So much so that i will sell a couple of LM’s that don’t get used as much.
Just waiting on some leather as I’ve run out, so I can design and make some sheaths/slips.
Thanks for writing about it. :cheers:
OVERPRICED!How much did you pay for yours and what did you not like about it when you received it?
Post by: Wspeed on April 22, 2019, 09:34:55 PM
I just hope that the price will go down soon
After a month or two maybe :dunno:
Post by: genevabuck on April 22, 2019, 09:38:14 PM
My initial thoughts:
-This is a high quality tool. The tolerances are very tight. It most likely takes QC at Leatherman to a new level.
-As someone said earlier, it is gonna take some muscle memory to get used to it.
-The tool does not need a break in period and tons of oil.
-The phillips driver bites into the fastener.
-The scissors cut through a zip tie with little effort.
-I tested the wire stripper. When you lay it next to the tool/implements and pull it is by far the best wire stripper that I have used on a multi tool.
-The file while short, is slightly sharper than I expected. The metal saw still exists, and there is a wood file behind the metal file.
-These are not Wingman implements, but somewhat similar.
-The pry bar/package opener is stout. Real stout.
-The ruler is worthless. The tool is basically another flat driver.
-The tip on the end of the file just worked perfectly on a #1 phillips fastener.
-The awl has a sharp has a very sharp blade. I wish it had a sharp tip. I do think it will peirce leather for a belt, but will take a little more effort.
-I absolutely love the pliers and the ability of them to butterfly out. Click, click
-The tool is lighter than I expected.
More later.
Post by: Wspeed on April 22, 2019, 09:42:27 PM
Post by: NetsNJ on April 22, 2019, 09:43:42 PM
- If you are careful, you can use these tools for decades. Amortized over the lifetime of the tool, it's a good investment. The prices are a pain for collectors like us, but if you just need a good multitool in your day to day, it's worth it.
- Don't forget that LM basically exchanged broken tools with new ones, no questions asked. It is a great service that we know and love, but that has to be priced into the upfront cost, that the user might not being one multitool, but actually two, three, four etc.
Post by: Olives666 on April 22, 2019, 09:51:55 PM
Used it a hand full of times at work today- Main combo blade for box opening and heavy duty banding cuts and the scissors to cut banding and straps as well.
Holds up fine and very easy to access the blade and scissors and close with one hand quickly- in order to not scare any sheaple :whistle:
Planning on making a horizontal carry leather sheath, maybe with some straight lines and angles, like the new LM Leather sheaths and maybe copy some of the dimpling design from the Free's handles to put on the front/flap of the sheath? :think: and to try and utilize the pocket clip as well- so it clips onto the leather sheath and is then covered with the flap.
Overall i would highly recommend Free P2- for ease of use and the fidget factor.
Would love to see LM Produce some in BO or even Ti scaled with S30v Blade? :pok:
Post by: powernoodle on April 22, 2019, 10:05:03 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 22, 2019, 10:08:43 PM
I got my P4 a few hours ago. I quickly put it to use mounting a corner shelf.
My initial thoughts:
-This is a high quality tool. The tolerances are very tight. It most likely takes QC at Leatherman to a new level.
-As someone said earlier, it is gonna take some muscle memory to get used to it.
-The tool does not need a break in period and tons of oil.
-The phillips driver bites into the fastener.
-The scissors cut through a zip tie with little effort.
-I tested the wire stripper. When you lay it next to the tool/implements and pull it is by far the best wire stripper that I have used on a multi tool.
-The file while short, is slightly sharper than I expected. The metal saw still exists, and there is a wood file behind the metal file.
-These are not Wingman implements, but somewhat similar.
-The pry bar/package opener is stout. Real stout.
-The ruler is worthless. The tool is basically another flat driver.
-The tip on the end of the file just worked perfectly on a #1 phillips fastener.
-The awl has a sharp has a very sharp blade. I wish it had a sharp tip. I do think it will peirce leather for a belt, but will take a little more effort.
-I absolutely love the pliers and the ability of them to butterfly out. Click, click
-The tool is lighter than I expected.
More later.
Thank for taking the time to write this, genevabuck! :salute:
Looks like the Free is much better than the scrooges presumed(with no intention of buying) and asserted. :like:
I don't think these are overpriced to be honest. Consider that:iagree:
- If you are careful, you can use these tools for decades. Amortized over the lifetime of the tool, it's a good investment. The prices are a pain for collectors like us, but if you just need a good multitool in your day to day, it's worth it.
- Don't forget that LM basically exchanged broken tools with new ones, no questions asked. It is a great service that we know and love, but that has to be priced into the upfront cost, that the user might not being one multitool, but actually two, three, four etc.
With all of the positive comments and reviews out there so far, we can already see the Free P2/P4 are far better than the haters want them to be. Personally, I am eagerly waiting for mine to arrive now. :woohoo:
Currently carrying mine in a modified small Heritage sheath at the moment- when its not in my pocket using the pocket clip..
Used it a hand full of times at work today- Main combo blade for box opening and heavy duty banding cuts and the scissors to cut banding and straps as well.
Holds up fine and very easy to access the blade and scissors and close with one hand quickly- in order to not scare any sheaple :whistle:
Planning on making a horizontal carry leather sheath, maybe with some straight lines and angles, like the new LM Leather sheaths and maybe copy some of the dimpling design from the Free's handles to put on the front/flap of the sheath? :think: and to try and utilize the pocket clip as well- so it clips onto the leather sheath and is then covered with the flap.
Overall i would highly recommend Free P2- for ease of use and the fidget factor.
Would love to see LM Produce some in BO or even Ti scaled with S30v Blade? :pok:
More good news. Thanks, Olives! :cheers:
It would be cool to see if LM makes some Free tools with other materials at some point.
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 22, 2019, 10:10:58 PM
Post by: gadgetman7 on April 22, 2019, 10:52:01 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/3c00eefb7aea2ce1c57824af00a5de24.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/4616f18c6b38fc540b7ba6deb437e1c2.jpg)
Th knives are nicely shaped and came moderately sharp. I touched both up and they cut well. Just wish they had better steel.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/448ef74cbe481bd71edecfceaa3a294d.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/0f3aee8d255c7bead0d109befeafdff7.jpg)
This is the side with the Philips and pry. Very thick tools and appear to be strong.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/308c0842ba8a646cad98097f9ddeedb8.jpg)
This is the Philips driver. I tried it on a few screws and it works MUCH better than I expected. Still needs a bit driver though.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/9a85da20970a2105b089a45ef487394a.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/95728bcd4c496241e6221197173ebf4e.jpg)
The pry bar seems especially well made.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/326b80a1def7223c01f43ede907388da.jpg)
This is the awl. I tried it on some wood. If you have a small pilot hole it cuts well but I wonder how well the tip will hold up.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/a56408f9ccb829f0e6ed72f58c84b7cf.jpg)
This is the medium driver/ruler. Looks a little thin but time will tell. It may work since there is a dedicated pry bar.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/c848c74b1caad9365162a3e848d3b8a4.jpg)
I really like the pliers. They seem to be very well made and strong.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/a46dd7410674b88ec09301c16ccace6c.jpg)
These are the magnetic catches. They seem to work well but I wonder how much metal they will attract.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/cbd328c8cf1830e17d978bf76d1704a0.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/8e1168b75821576ae1755d355d05b8f1.jpg)
The scissors work well and are better than the Wave scissors.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/07dde2868092d597816a3990542de4d1.jpg)
I haven’t tried the saw but it looks like it will work fine.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/7cf7f6ccfbea9cb30a48f95859c400d3.jpg)
The overall fit and finish is very good. The tools on one side did inadvertently open when I CLOSED the pliers one handed with a sharp snap. The outer tools stayed in place though.
This tool is well done but I still think it’s overpriced. The tools themselves seem no better that ST 300 quality. However, if this tool is upgraded with better knife steel, a bit driver and a t shank adapter it would be fantastic. As is, is decent but about $50-75 too expensive.
I was wrong about one thing for sure. It’s a great platform but needs a few changes to make it elite.
By the way, the sheath is definitely meh....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Wspeed on April 22, 2019, 10:59:15 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 22, 2019, 11:03:06 PM
The fit & finish do appear to be top-notch.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on April 22, 2019, 11:07:14 PM
I debate if I can mod some ST300 tools to slot into the tool but I wont commit to that until someone has done the horrific task of voiding their warranty and showing me the internals first. I would have been that guy..but I really have spent too much on other multi-tools lately.
Cheers,
HG.
Post by: genevabuck on April 22, 2019, 11:12:16 PM
Post by: gilson65 on April 22, 2019, 11:15:23 PM
I don't think these are overpriced to be honest. Consider that
- If you are careful, you can use these tools for decades. Amortized over the lifetime of the tool, it's a good investment. The prices are a pain for collectors like us, but if you just need a good multitool in your day to day, it's worth it.
- Don't forget that LM basically exchanged broken tools with new ones, no questions asked. It is a great service that we know and love, but that has to be priced into the upfront cost, that the user might not being one multitool, but actually two, three, four etc.
Totally agree
Post by: McStitchy on April 22, 2019, 11:16:39 PM
Post by: SteveC on April 22, 2019, 11:52:45 PM
I don't like the fact that Nick felt the need to delete his comments that were posted in this thread. There was nothing wrong with his comments and he shouldn't have felt pressured to delete them. :(
carry on
Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 22, 2019, 11:54:39 PM
The tools on one side did inadvertently open when I CLOSED the pliers one handed with a sharp snap. The outer tools stayed in place though.
:think:
Sorry, I'm a little confused by this. I thought they were all outer tools. What opened, and what didn't?
Otherwise, great overview. Thanks for your thoughts and pics :cheers:
Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 22, 2019, 11:56:08 PM
Let's make one thing clear , anyone can post in any thread here on MTO. You will just have to take any comments that come even if this thread was started with the intention of only having people who own or are going to order a Free. That just isn't the way things work around here nor should it be. This is a forum for discussing tools, the good the bad and the ugly.
I don't like the fact that Nick felt the need to delete his comments that were posted in this thread. There was nothing wrong with his comments and he shouldn't have felt pressured to delete them. :(
carry on
:2tu: :salute:
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 23, 2019, 12:05:37 AM
And I must say, it sure does look very nice ... :drool:
And the price, oh well, it won't be available here until august anyway, so I still got some time to get my Free P4 budget back on track.
And my birthday is in august, so I better start sending out some subtle messages to Misses "TG-24" already ... :whistle:.
Post by: Monrogue on April 23, 2019, 12:18:05 AM
Post by: gadgetman7 on April 23, 2019, 12:32:05 AM
:think:
Sorry, I'm a little confused by this. I thought they were all outer tools. What opened, and what didn't?
Otherwise, great overview. Thanks for your thoughts and pics :cheers:
They are on the inside when the pliers are open. When I closed the pliers with one hand I used a hard snap. The Philip’s and pry bar popped out a little. The knife and scissors did not come out.
Hope that makes it clearer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: gadgetman7 on April 23, 2019, 12:36:08 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/6f0abe3bddc8fa07b088f3d80d5600f6.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 23, 2019, 12:39:38 AM
I wonder what the engraving I circled in blue on the ruler/screwdriver means. Maybe a tool adapter?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/6f0abe3bddc8fa07b088f3d80d5600f6.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I guess it's there to point out what looks to be a wire stripper.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 23, 2019, 12:41:11 AM
Post by: genevabuck on April 23, 2019, 12:45:06 AM
I wonder what the engraving I circled in blue on the ruler/screwdriver means. Maybe a tool adapter?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/6f0abe3bddc8fa07b088f3d80d5600f6.jpg)
It is a wire stripper and works very well. You need to fold it down onto the tool, turn it a few times and pull.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: gadgetman7 on April 23, 2019, 01:25:33 AM
Makes sense. I’ve never used the wire stripper function because I typically use knife or my old electrician’s tool. I should have known though since there’s one on the SAK bottle opener too.
I’ve played with the tool some more and it is very well made. Lockup is the best of any multitool I’ve seen. Rock solid. It’s growing on me.
I have to assemble some SAR gear tomorrow so we’ll see how it goes. I’ll have a Charge with a bit kit available in case I need torx bits.
I have decided the sheath is bad. It sits too high and there is no accommodation for horizontal carry. Oddly, the sheath is made in China. Kind of funny since they made a big deal about the tool being made in the USA.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: SteveC on April 23, 2019, 01:50:02 AM
Makes sense. I’ve never used the wire stripper function because I typically use knife or my old electrician’s tool. I should have known though since there’s one on the SAK bottle opener too.
I’ve played with the tool some more and it is very well made. Lockup is the best of any multitool I’ve seen. Rock solid. It’s growing on me.
I have to assemble some SAR gear tomorrow so we’ll see how it goes. I’ll have a Charge with a bit kit available in case I need torx bits.
I have decided the sheath is bad. It sits too high and there is no accommodation for horizontal carry. Oddly, the sheath is made in China. Kind of funny since they made a big deal about the tool being made in the USA.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
For the price they are asking it should come with a nice made in the US leather sheath IMO .
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 23, 2019, 02:15:21 AM
If adjusted for inflation, and barring the Wingman/Sidekick/Rev, Leathermans are the cheapest they have ever been. :)
That said, I would have been happy to pay a few more bucks to get a leather sheath with the new tools though. :ahhh
Post by: JonesE on April 23, 2019, 02:22:02 AM
JonesE
Post by: gilson65 on April 23, 2019, 02:42:10 AM
Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 23, 2019, 03:27:52 AM
They are on the inside when the pliers are open. When I closed the pliers with one hand I used a hard snap. The Philip’s and pry bar popped out a little. The knife and scissors did not come out.
Hope that makes it clearer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Much clearer. :tu: Thanks Gadget :cheers:
Post by: tommywp on April 23, 2019, 03:55:30 AM
:cheers:
Post by: gilson65 on April 23, 2019, 04:43:04 AM
Can any of you guys that have one comment on the “hammer” that the pliers form when the tool is closed? Would you feel comfortable giving a few whacks with it, or does it seem like bad force to be at plying to the pliers and a likely way to smurf up the tool
:cheers:
Me personally I wouldn’t especially with the locking pins for pliers located at that end
Post by: JonesE on April 23, 2019, 04:45:59 AM
Can any of you guys that have one comment on the “hammer” that the pliers form when the tool is closed? Would you feel comfortable giving a few whacks with it, or does it seem like bad force to be at plying to the pliers and a likely way to smurf up the tool
:cheers:
While the pliers are beefy, I would not recommend using them as a hammer. There are tabs that are exposed when the pliers are in the closed position. Buggering up them up might result in difficulty in locking the pliers into the handles in the open position.
JonesE
Post by: SirVicaLot on April 23, 2019, 05:07:20 AM
The 2D Philips, short file and ruler don‘t seem to fit a tool this price range and neither does the sheath.
Maybe it‘s just me. I like the old Leathernan tools (Pst, Super Tool) and was never fond of the newer versions.
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 23, 2019, 06:37:26 AM
I'm a big fan of LM's flattened driver bits(they bite better than 90% of full-phillips drivers on other tools) and am curious to know if the Free phillips bites the same or similarly?
The whole waiting thing is eating at me. :rofl:
Guess now I remember why I usually wait a while to order new tools. :ahhh
Post by: gadgetman7 on April 23, 2019, 03:18:31 PM
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: SirVicaLot on April 23, 2019, 03:20:47 PM
I am really looking forward to a side-by-side test with a Wave or a Surge :cheers:
Post by: Aloha on April 23, 2019, 03:23:19 PM
Post by: Gareth on April 23, 2019, 03:40:41 PM
OK. I just received mine as a gift so I was surprised when it came in. It’s better than I expected but not fantastic.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/3c00eefb7aea2ce1c57824af00a5de24.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/4616f18c6b38fc540b7ba6deb437e1c2.jpg)
Th knives are nicely shaped and came moderately sharp. I touched both up and they cut well. Just wish they had better steel.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/448ef74cbe481bd71edecfceaa3a294d.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/0f3aee8d255c7bead0d109befeafdff7.jpg)
This is the side with the Philips and pry. Very thick tools and appear to be strong.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/308c0842ba8a646cad98097f9ddeedb8.jpg)
This is the Philips driver. I tried it on a few screws and it works MUCH better than I expected. Still needs a bit driver though.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/9a85da20970a2105b089a45ef487394a.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/95728bcd4c496241e6221197173ebf4e.jpg)
The pry bar seems especially well made.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/326b80a1def7223c01f43ede907388da.jpg)
This is the awl. I tried it on some wood. If you have a small pilot hole it cuts well but I wonder how well the tip will hold up.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/a56408f9ccb829f0e6ed72f58c84b7cf.jpg)
This is the medium driver/ruler. Looks a little thin but time will tell. It may work since there is a dedicated pry bar.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/c848c74b1caad9365162a3e848d3b8a4.jpg)
I really like the pliers. They seem to be very well made and strong.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/a46dd7410674b88ec09301c16ccace6c.jpg)
These are the magnetic catches. They seem to work well but I wonder how much metal they will attract.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/cbd328c8cf1830e17d978bf76d1704a0.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/8e1168b75821576ae1755d355d05b8f1.jpg)
The scissors work well and are better than the Wave scissors.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/07dde2868092d597816a3990542de4d1.jpg)
I haven’t tried the saw but it looks like it will work fine.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/7cf7f6ccfbea9cb30a48f95859c400d3.jpg)
The overall fit and finish is very good. The tools on one side did inadvertently open when I CLOSED the pliers one handed with a sharp snap. The outer tools stayed in place though.
This tool is well done but I still think it’s overpriced. The tools themselves seem no better that ST 300 quality. However, if this tool is upgraded with better knife steel, a bit driver and a t shank adapter it would be fantastic. As is, is decent but about $50-75 too expensive.
I was wrong about one thing for sure. It’s a great platform but needs a few changes to make it elite.
By the way, the sheath is definitely meh....
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Great feedback gadgetman. :hatsoff:
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 23, 2019, 03:46:32 PM
The Philips seems to bite just as well as the bit. In fact, maybe a little better in the larger screws. Having said that, if you bend it you can’t easily replace it like a bit.Thank you, gadgetman7! :salute:
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I use the exchangeable "flat" bits very frequently, and aside from the short reach, they(LM flat phillips bits) seem to perform just was well as a regular SAK inline/SwissTool phillips. But, that said, not quite as well as the full sized non-replaceable LM and Gerber phillips drivers.
Post by: JustinCase on April 23, 2019, 07:38:53 PM
I wonder what the engraving I circled in blue on the ruler/screwdriver means. Maybe a tool adapter?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/6f0abe3bddc8fa07b088f3d80d5600f6.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The engraving showing a stripped wire looks more like a Dremel tool attachment to me :D
Post by: Monrogue on April 23, 2019, 11:52:59 PM
The pliers are nice and solid. All the tools seem good from what I can tell. I’m not a heavy user at all, so don’t expect much of that kind of review from me. Everything being one hand accessible is very nice though, and it will be a great fiddle factor MT. The phillips and prybar tools are very thick. I will post pics shortly.
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Post by: Monrogue on April 23, 2019, 11:55:08 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/060730cbd20a9da57d3a08db54e51e04.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/520415cc96f751021b948b3696b00003.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/33644c593c8609b74b18344e8f9b0818.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/312e6e4a158cad11a748df04572317f5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/a988c8d41dd7e5c54617519611cbecf3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/16754bf82f4917c9ce21cdc3d38cc8d4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/2ea077fd9d8aa1bdec0212d818da05de.jpg)
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Post by: Wspeed on April 24, 2019, 12:09:40 AM
It does look good :dd:
Post by: SteveC on April 24, 2019, 12:18:47 AM
Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 12:32:25 AM
Post by: McStitchy on April 24, 2019, 01:00:26 AM
Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 01:17:49 AM
:popcorn:
I also want to mention the handle splay, which I’m pretty sure you’ve brought up as an issue with other MT’s, and is a concern I share having small-average sized hands. It is not an issue for me with the P2, which is also a plus
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Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 01:18:39 AM
Looking good Monrogue :salute:Thanks!
Post by: NetsNJ on April 24, 2019, 01:19:07 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 24, 2019, 01:19:47 AM
Dear god, that phillips is thick. Can we really call it 2D anymore?
The splay does look reasonable as well. Thank you for the info and pics! :multi:
Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 01:22:25 AM
Congrats, Monrogue! :woohoo::cheers:
Dear god, that phillips is thick. Can we really call it 2D anymore?
The splay does look reasonable as well. Thank you for the info and pics! :multi:
Yes, both that and the prybar are very solid indeed. And flicking the pliers open and squeezing the handles in place has such a nice click to it. This thing is rather fun :multi:
Post by: gustophersmob on April 24, 2019, 01:24:43 AM
Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 01:34:38 AM
Can anyone comment or take pictures of the elastomer bits? Curious to see how the plastic parts are executed.Are those the black bits around the handle pivots?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/3176069c4994e7ce7548aee865fc8a11.jpg)
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Post by: gerleatherberman on April 24, 2019, 01:38:32 AM
:cheers:Thank you. Very cool with the pry tool and extra thick phillips. :)
Yes, both that and the prybar are very solid indeed. And flicking the pliers open and squeezing the handles in place has such a nice click to it. This thing is rather fun :multi:
Oh man. I gotta wait until after work tomorrow to get my hands on the P2. And then sometimes UPS doesn't deliver until 8pm. :ahhh
Post by: gustophersmob on April 24, 2019, 01:42:49 AM
Are those the black bits around the handle pivots?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/3176069c4994e7ce7548aee865fc8a11.jpg)
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I honestly don’t know :dunno:
In the shot videos they mentioned it and how they tested it for a million cycles, but they never showed what part s they were or what they did.
Since it’s a new bit of “tech” like the magnets, I’m curious to see how it all works.
Thanks for the pic! :cheers:
Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 24, 2019, 01:48:52 AM
I also want to mention the handle splay, which I’m pretty sure you’ve brought up as an issue with other MT’s, and is a concern I share having small-average sized hands. It is not an issue for me with the P2, which is also a plus
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Yeah, the pictures I've seen with the jaws closed, does look like an improvement over their recent trends in that regard. Thanks for the confirmation, and the open jaw pic, Kyle :salute:
Post by: LoopCutter on April 24, 2019, 01:52:42 AM
One item I have not read, yet, is the pocket clip and how the P2 and P4 will ride in a front pocket.
Thank you AWL
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Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 01:55:54 AM
Thank you. Very cool with the pry tool and extra thick phillips. :)I look forward to your impressions as well :cheers:
Oh man. I gotta wait until after work tomorrow to get my hands on the P2. And then sometimes UPS doesn't deliver until 8pm. :ahhh
Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 01:56:44 AM
I honestly don’t know :dunno:
In the shot videos they mentioned it and how they tested it for a million cycles, but they never showed what part s they were or what they did.
Since it’s a new bit of “tech” like the magnets, I’m curious to see how it all works.
Thanks for the pic! :cheers:
Well they do appear to be plastic, but they are difficult to see, and to capture in a pic.
Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 01:59:02 AM
Yeah, the pictures I've seen with the jaws closed, does look like an improvement over their recent trends in that regard. Thanks for the confirmation, and the open jaw pic, Kyle :salute:
Anytime buddy :cheers:
Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 02:00:35 AM
I appreciate each who have shared their impressions and pictures of the new toys.
One item I have not read, yet, is the pocket clip and how the P2 and P4 will ride in a front pocket.
Thank you AWL
I can’t say on that yet, but will be in jeans at work on Friday and will have it clipped to my right front pocket.
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Post by: gerleatherberman on April 24, 2019, 02:12:39 AM
I look forward to your impressions as well :cheers::cheers:
Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 24, 2019, 02:47:38 AM
Are those the black bits around the handle pivots?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/3176069c4994e7ce7548aee865fc8a11.jpg)
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Now this shot raises more questions than it answers, but I'm seeing some clever thinking here. I like the looks of the load transfer lugs, acting directly onto the main handle panels, rather than the bridge piece as on the Spirit (which failed on me, on a MP700). That seems to indicate that the elastomer elements lets the handles snick nicely into place, while not being subjected to the primary gripping or cutting forces.
However, it does also mean that those protrusions on the plier trunnion have tensile/shear forces instead of just compression... clever, but... has the design accommodated for tensile/shear forces on a (presumed) casting ... and what's the actual mechanism of engagement on the elastomer... ?
Insufficient data to speculate as yet. :surrender:
While all the fluff and stuff at the other end of the handles hasn't impressed me much at all, I'm finding the activity around this pivot area more intriguing.
Post by: gustophersmob on April 24, 2019, 02:50:18 AM
Well they do appear to be plastic, but they are difficult to see, and to capture in a pic.
Thanks! :cheers:
Post by: Blackbeard on April 24, 2019, 03:08:02 AM
https://youtu.be/GrUlW2_I5PQ
Post by: aussieman on April 24, 2019, 03:14:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn2OQ7mXOQA
I still can't decide P2 vs P4, and I feel like this video is foreign interference in my purchasing decision. :whistle:
Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 03:30:21 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190424/e8b435f31153c862199658c5141c94b5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190424/2bc478965aa1cf2322b3bdeda6a1f194.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190424/0ccd0138dc8f9c0c502b9d117d7e8d8e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190424/500adcdbe9882d0d18906ea4622d2032.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190424/83b3db90de1d6ddcc7e3084a6b3fd91a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190424/42c3c666fda547f0d4d42d0a7279070b.jpg)
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Post by: Blackbeard on April 24, 2019, 03:42:02 AM
Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 04:03:17 AM
Every tool locks up rock solid, with no slack whatsoever. The pliers operate smoothly, with no break in required, which is not typical of most LMs I’ve had. Fit and finish do indeed seem top notch so far imho :tu:
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 24, 2019, 04:40:45 AM
Thanks for sharing them. :cheers:
Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 05:15:38 AM
Wow. Your photos do a MUCH better job than LM's to showcase the fit & finish, as well as how nicely they are machined. :o
Thanks for sharing them. :cheers:
No prob :salute:
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 24, 2019, 05:48:58 AM
Also, the combo blade of the P2 means that I am interested in the P4. :facepalm:
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 24, 2019, 06:38:36 AM
found decent review/comparison to surge
https://youtu.be/GrUlW2_I5PQ
That's how you market a tool. Great video. :like:
Thanks for posting it, Blackbeard! :cheers:
Post by: Blackbeard on April 24, 2019, 10:26:17 AM
He did a good job with the close ups, Looking forward to reading more MTO members thoughts, it seems like a good tool, but Hopefully the price will come down over time.
Post by: Poncho65 on April 24, 2019, 12:11:15 PM
Post by: Wspeed on April 24, 2019, 12:59:41 PM
Post by: genevabuck on April 24, 2019, 01:39:20 PM
Glad you got yours, Mons :like: Those pics show the tools better than I have seen and the Phillips definitely looks more 3D than 2D :like: The scissors look very well made as well, I am liking what I am seeing with the Free :drool:
My thoughts on the Phillips as well. I have tested it. It bites into the screw.
Post by: gadgetman7 on April 24, 2019, 02:08:52 PM
My thoughts on the Phillips as well. I have tested it. It bites into the screw.
It work well. At least as good as the bits.
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Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 02:18:58 PM
Glad you got yours, Mons :like: Those pics show the tools better than I have seen and the Phillips definitely looks more 3D than 2D :like: The scissors look very well made as well, I am liking what I am seeing with the Free :drool:
Thanks Poncho :D
Post by: genevabuck on April 24, 2019, 02:49:44 PM
It work well. At least as good as the bits.
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I agree.
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 24, 2019, 03:30:44 PM
Post by: Aloha on April 24, 2019, 03:44:29 PM
I am really liking how the tools are all available without opening the tool. In looking at more an more videos I am very much liking the deployment method. I showed how one would deploy the tools and my partner said she really liked the clumping so remembering where each tool was located was not necessary. I even forget on my Swisstools.
I think I am just such a sucker for the bit holder and blade exchanger that I have a hard time seeing past them. I need to go back a re read what my gripes were about this tool.
Post by: Wspeed on April 24, 2019, 03:54:18 PM
Will have a bit holder and the blade exchanger :think:
Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 24, 2019, 04:50:40 PM
If you want a long video that shows P2 and P4 from so many angles, so that you feel like you already own one and know it better than your wife, I recommend this Russian video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn2OQ7mXOQA
I still can't decide P2 vs P4, and I feel like this video is foreign interference in my purchasing decision. :whistle:
Thanks for that, I think I've seen all I need to now :salute:
Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 04:53:50 PM
Thanks for that, I think I've seen all I need to now :salute:
And he’s sold :woohoo:
:rofl:
Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 24, 2019, 05:21:38 PM
found decent review/comparison to surge
https://youtu.be/GrUlW2_I5PQ
Very informative, thanks :cheers:
Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 24, 2019, 05:22:51 PM
And he’s sold :woohoo:
:rofl:
:rofl:
Absolutely :tu:
Completely sold... on everything I already own :D
Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 05:43:53 PM
:rofl:
Absolutely :tu:
Completely sold... on everything I already own :D
:cheers:
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 24, 2019, 09:11:03 PM
I am hoping that any other new models LM will makeWe've already got the best LMs ever made, and are using them an entire 30-day run. And they don't come in grey sheaths. :multi:
Will have a bit holder and the blade exchanger :think:
The Free, to me anyway, is an urban type carry with mad fiddle-factor. A P2 should be waiting for me when I get home from work. :woohoo:
Post by: Wspeed on April 24, 2019, 09:27:02 PM
Post by: SteveC on April 24, 2019, 09:30:05 PM
Post by: gadgetman7 on April 24, 2019, 10:41:50 PM
In that video above at around the 36.28 mark the tools comes flying out as he's trying to butterfly open the pliers :ahhh
I just tried a P2. Same issue if you snap the pliers open. Not an issue on the P4. Does not bode well for their QC. The video didn’t load but the picture shows the result.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190424/d4b7c5406fa60036403a49ff8da2c535.jpg)
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Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 24, 2019, 10:47:06 PM
In that video above at around the 36.28 mark the tools comes flying out as he's trying to butterfly open the pliers :ahhh
Yup, spotted that. It actually happen to him a few times around the same time.
Post by: gadgetman7 on April 24, 2019, 10:50:11 PM
The P4 doesn’t work for assembling the SAR gear. Too many torx screws. Also, the file did not work well when I tried to file down a metal buckle. Kind of thinking these may end up as novelties but I’ll carry them a few more days.
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Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 11:15:29 PM
We've already got the best LMs ever made, and are using them an entire 30-day run. And they don't come in grey sheaths. :multi:
The Free, to me anyway, is an urban type carry with mad fiddle-factor. A P2 should be waiting for me when I get home from work. :woohoo:
:popcorn:
Post by: Monrogue on April 24, 2019, 11:18:41 PM
I just tried a P2. Same issue if you snap the pliers open. Not an issue on the P4. Does not bode well for their QC. The video didn’t load but the picture shows the result.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190424/d4b7c5406fa60036403a49ff8da2c535.jpg)
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I haven’t had that issue yet at least. Maybe depends on how forcefully the handles are snapped into place? I’m going to try mine more to see.
Post by: Sea Monster on April 25, 2019, 12:42:55 AM
Still no intention of buying one - it'll be at least another 12 months, possibly longer, before the stars align and A. I am in a mood to buy a new multi and B. A local retailer has a sufficiently attractive sale to make the purchase start to look like acceptable value*.
possibly even that long before I get a chance to see one in the flesh.
None the less, though I still have some doubts about a few points, the live-action video suggests that LM has made a decent effort at a tool that might cover daily/odd jobs.
*This is not entirely LMs fault, there's a fair bit of price creep between the manufacturer and the retailer in Oz....
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 25, 2019, 02:48:23 AM
To the P2.
I've been sitting around playing with the P2 for a bit. I feel the tool is worth the cost for sure. Not as excited as I hoped to be, but that is my problem, not the tool's. Going forward;
The tool is built very well and the QC is outstanding. The design should be worthy of MT of the year, because of HOW cool the engineering involved is. I have a lot of respect for the design, QC, function, and USA-manufacturing. It isn't going to dethrone my Charge anytime soon(since the magnet would get steel wool dust on them at my job, but I may try it anyway), but it sure is a kickazz tool. Very well made and fun to play with. VERY FUN.
Swinging the plier out gently, as is directed will not pop any tools out. At least not on my example. You're supposed to swing the handles out gently and then slowly click the handles into place anyway. I cannot get mine pop any tools out with realistic usage motions.
If you bought one (or thinking of buying one) and are worried about that, just swing it open and pop the pliers into place holding the side with the awl. That'll lessen the momentum incurred by aggressive flipping. The side with the blade is tighter and doesn't really have any possible hazards(the sharp package edge on the flat driver would be almost impossible to get your finger on this way). The blade is blocked from opening when the pliers are engaged, so that won't be an issue. The only tool that would cut you, if you are completely oblivious to using the tool(which tools should always be taken seriously), is the awl. But, that said, it isn't quite as much of an issue as is being worried about here. I hope that helps explain it and possible methods to reduce possible partial opening.
You could always use two security torx bits to tighten the pivot a little, if you're worried about any tools popping open when slipping the pliers or cutting something thick. But, if LM had made the tools tighter, then they wouldn't be easily opened OH and people would be talking about how tight they are. Catch-22.
Sidenote: I'll probably regret even posting about getting mine and writing what I think. :facepalm:
P2 pics. They're not very good, since several members have posted gorgeous photos already.
(http://i.imgur.com/zKTuKBc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/f2VnBmF.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1BOzT5z.jpg)
Post by: gilson65 on April 25, 2019, 03:02:07 AM
:iagree: thrilled indeed, Sea Monster. :multi:
To the P2.
I've been sitting around playing with the P2 for a bit. I feel the tool is worth the cost for sure. Not as excited as I hoped to be, but that is my problem, not the tool's. Going forward;
The tool is built very well and the QC is outstanding. The design should be worthy of MT of the year, because of HOW cool the engineering involved is. I have a lot of respect for the design, QC, function, and USA-manufacturing. It isn't going to dethrone my Charge anytime soon(since the magnet would get steel wool dust on them at my job, but I may try it anyway), but it sure is a kickazz tool. Very well made and fun to play with. VERY FUN.
Swinging the plier out gently, as is directed will not pop any tools out. At least not on my example. You're supposed to swing the handles out gently and then slowly click the handles into place anyway. I cannot get mine pop any tools out with realistic usage motions.
If you bought one (or thinking of buying one) and are worried about that, just swing it open and pop the pliers into place holding the side with the awl. That'll lessen the momentum incurred by aggressive flipping. The side with the blade is tighter and doesn't really have any possible hazards(the sharp package edge on the flat driver would be almost impossible to get your finger on this way). The blade is blocked from opening when the pliers are engaged, so that won't be an issue. The only tool that would cut you, if you are completely oblivious to using the tool(which tools should always be taken seriously), is the awl. But, that said, it isn't quite as much of an issue as is being worried about here. I hope that helps explain it and possible methods to reduce possible partial opening.
You could always use two security torx bits to tighten the pivot a little, if you're worried about any tools popping open when slipping the pliers or cutting somethong thick. But, if LM had made the tools tighter, then they wouldn't be easily opened OH and people would be talking about how tight they are. Catch-22.
Sidenote: I'll probably regret even posting about getting mine and writing what I think. :facepalm:
P2 pics. They're not very good, since several members have posted gorgeous photos already.
(http://i.imgur.com/zKTuKBc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/f2VnBmF.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1BOzT5z.jpg)
Totally agree with your comments especially about the opening method the more I play with mine the more I love it :iagree:
Post by: gustophersmob on April 25, 2019, 03:21:31 AM
It’s good to know the popping open may not be as big a safety concern as I initially thought. I also didn’t realize the blades were prevented from opening. Good stuff.
As far as metal stuff getting on the magnets, how easy do you think they would be to clean off? Are they pretty easy to access?
Post by: gadgetman7 on April 25, 2019, 03:34:20 AM
On the other hand, my whining about the cost of the tool(s) is a bit ridiculous since I have several Chris Reeve and Hinderer knives.
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Post by: Monrogue on April 25, 2019, 03:44:46 AM
:iagree: thrilled indeed, Sea Monster. :multi:
To the P2.
I've been sitting around playing with the P2 for a bit. I feel the tool is worth the cost for sure. Not as excited as I hoped to be, but that is my problem, not the tool's. Going forward;
The tool is built very well and the QC is outstanding. The design should be worthy of MT of the year, because of HOW cool the engineering involved is. I have a lot of respect for the design, QC, function, and USA-manufacturing. It isn't going to dethrone my Charge anytime soon(since the magnet would get steel wool dust on them at my job, but I may try it anyway), but it sure is a kickazz tool. Very well made and fun to play with. VERY FUN.
Swinging the plier out gently, as is directed will not pop any tools out. At least not on my example. You're supposed to swing the handles out gently and then slowly click the handles into place anyway. I cannot get mine pop any tools out with realistic usage motions.
If you bought one (or thinking of buying one) and are worried about that, just swing it open and pop the pliers into place holding the side with the awl. That'll lessen the momentum incurred by aggressive flipping. The side with the blade is tighter and doesn't really have any possible hazards(the sharp package edge on the flat driver would be almost impossible to get your finger on this way). The blade is blocked from opening when the pliers are engaged, so that won't be an issue. The only tool that would cut you, if you are completely oblivious to using the tool(which tools should always be taken seriously), is the awl. But, that said, it isn't quite as much of an issue as is being worried about here. I hope that helps explain it and possible methods to reduce possible partial opening.
You could always use two security torx bits to tighten the pivot a little, if you're worried about any tools popping open when slipping the pliers or cutting something thick. But, if LM had made the tools tighter, then they wouldn't be easily opened OH and people would be talking about how tight they are. Catch-22.
Sidenote: I'll probably regret even posting about getting mine and writing what I think. :facepalm:
P2 pics. They're not very good, since several members have posted gorgeous photos already.
(http://i.imgur.com/zKTuKBc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/f2VnBmF.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1BOzT5z.jpg)
Nice, glad you enjoy it man!
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 25, 2019, 04:12:48 AM
Totally agree with your comments especially about the opening method the more I play with mine the more I love it. :iagree:Thank you, gilson! :cheers:
It is quite a unique tool for sure.
Awesome! Glad you like it! :cheers:Thank you, gustophersmob! :cheers:
It’s good to know the popping open may not be as big a safety concern as I initially thought. I also didn’t realize the blades were prevented from opening. Good stuff.
As far as metal stuff getting on the magnets, how easy do you think they would be to clean off? Are they pretty easy to access?
A good quality packing tape could probably get the metal dust off. Luckily the metal doesn't get into the pivot, just onto the retainer magnets. :)
On my P4 the inside tools opening doesn’t seem to be much of an issue. The P2 inside tools with the file can pop out when using the same force to lock the pliers in place as I use on my Charge. Swinging the handles hasn’t opened either the P4 or P2 tools - it’s when clicking the pliers into place that it happens. If the P2 were mine I’d tighten the pivot but as it is a loaner I’ll leave it alone. I don’t think it’s a safety issue, just annoying on a $120 tool.It is funny. The more I play with it, the more I think the price may be justifiable. It feels refined like a $150 folding knife in certain aspects. But, that said, an incredibly more complex construction is cheaper than some good folders. IMO of course.
On the other hand, my whining about the cost of the tool(s) is a bit ridiculous since I have several Chris Reeve and Hinderer knives.
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Very cool you have the Reeves and Hinderer knives. Some serious bladage there. :dd:
Nice, glad you enjoy it man!Thank you, Monrogue! :cheers:
--------------------
Has anyone else noticed that the tools actually DO NOT have true clumping(sorry if I missed someone mentioning that)? The tools all come out when the tangs are pressed as a bunch, BUT, pulling(or using a finger nail individually) each one out, they don't clump. Kind of cool. :)
Edit:
I will say, as far as right now, my only issue is the short file. But, that said, I like the full sized scissors and thin profile as the trade-off.
Post by: gilson65 on April 25, 2019, 05:04:01 AM
Really good video on the free p4
Post by: gregpost on April 25, 2019, 07:27:30 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 25, 2019, 07:38:51 AM
Post by: Blackbeard on April 25, 2019, 08:04:05 AM
I had to stop watching that video when he said he couldn't tell the difference in knife edges on the New Wave, because they looked identical. :facepalm:
seriously, just install the pocket clip and problem solved...there's also gimping on the serrated blade spine, it's really a non issue.
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 25, 2019, 08:05:42 AM
seriously, just install the pocket clip and problem solved...there's also gimping on the serrated blade spine, it's really a non issue.Indeed. I like the guy's approach to the video, but it is obvious he isn't an enthusiast. :facepalm:
Post by: Sea Monster on April 25, 2019, 08:18:22 AM
Quote
It is funny. The more I play with it, the more I think the price may be justifiable. It feels refined like a $150 folding knife in certain aspects. But, that said, an incredibly more complex construction is cheaper than some good folders. IMO of course.
How does it go as a knife?
I've found most multis (some more than others - the MP600 can sod right off) have "acceptable" knives for utilitarian tasks, but hardly a pleasure to use - does the P2/P4 have the ergonomics and blade design to really feel like a decent knife in hand?
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 25, 2019, 08:24:07 AM
Post by: gadgetman7 on April 25, 2019, 11:44:33 AM
How does it go as a knife?
I've found most multis (some more than others - the MP600 can sod right off) have "acceptable" knives for utilitarian tasks, but hardly a pleasure to use - does the P2/P4 have the ergonomics and blade design to really feel like a decent knife in hand?
In my opinion, the knife is more comfortable than the knife on the Charge. I also like the blade shape better. If they come out with an S30v version, it would be the best knife on any multitool I’ve handled.
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Post by: gerleatherberman on April 25, 2019, 02:28:48 PM
In my opinion, the knife is more comfortable than the knife on the Charge. I also like the blade shape better. If they come out with an S30v version, it would be the best knife on any multitool I’ve handled.:like: :iagree:
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Post by: sambeaux on April 25, 2019, 06:15:29 PM
The Free P4 and Charge+ cost the same amount.
The Charge+ has a 154CM blade
The Charge+ has both blades easily accessible ( serrated and plain edge ), and right handed
The Charge+ has bit holders
The Charge+ has a longer file, and a diamond coating.
The Free has an awl, a better can opener, a package opener, and maybe better scissors.
The Charge has a better plain edge blade, a longer serrated blade, a longer saw, a better file and longer file, and bit drivers.
I'm not sold on the 2 and a half D phillips driver, the 420HC plain edge blade, or the funky file. Perhaps there will be a Free P4+ with bit drivers and a diamond file in the future? Anyway, I would love to hear more opinions and will try to keep an eye on this forum. Thanks for all the input so far.
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 25, 2019, 06:36:57 PM
Post by: Wspeed on April 25, 2019, 06:44:48 PM
a longer file would make much more sense :tu:
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 25, 2019, 07:07:10 PM
Call it the "Free P-Pro". :multi:
Post by: Wspeed on April 25, 2019, 07:14:02 PM
Post by: McStitchy on April 25, 2019, 07:22:24 PM
Toss my vote in for the file over SE blade as well. And then put a short SE blade, like the Sidekick, in the tiny file slot. Then swap the giant phillips for a longer, redesigned bit exchanger.
Call it the "Free P-Pro". :multi:
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/lGmKzynHWftFm/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5cc1ec9e733942424d61c233&rid=giphy.gif)
Post by: Wspeed on April 25, 2019, 07:24:30 PM
Post by: gadgetman7 on April 25, 2019, 07:25:45 PM
Toss my vote in for the file over SE blade as well. And then put a short SE blade, like the Sidekick, in the tiny file slot. Then swap the giant phillips for a longer, redesigned bit exchanger.I like this idea. I’d add the blade exchanger for the saw too.
Call it the "Free P-Pro". :multi:
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: ducttapetech on April 25, 2019, 07:52:12 PM
Anyways, thanks for sharing guys.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 25, 2019, 07:57:20 PM
maybe the metal shaving will clean off easy.
I reckon it will, Nate. :tu: While the magnets may attract stuff, opening up all the tools and cleaning it out, does look to be quite straightforward.
Post by: ducttapetech on April 25, 2019, 08:05:39 PM
I reckon it will, Nate. :tu: While the magnets may attract stuff, opening up all the tools and cleaning it out, does look to be quite straightforward.That is what I am thinking.
Anybody modded theirs yet? :pok: :D
Post by: McStitchy on April 25, 2019, 08:29:37 PM
... pics show before & after...
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 25, 2019, 08:38:41 PM
It doesn't seem hard to reprofile the P4 awl screwdriver tip into a real awl tip.
There was a nice photo of a Surge reamer and P4 awl somewhere but I can't find it now. But it should not be much of a problem.
Not sure why the awl has a screwdriver tip, though. But the quarter-circle can opener doesn't? :think:
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 25, 2019, 08:40:02 PM
The P series awl looks like a good candidate for sharpening the tip. The driver tip on the file would likely be small enough for most flat drive screws.
AW,
Good point on the ease of clean. I got some steel wool dust on the retainer magnet housing, inside the tool, earlier today and was able to clean it off with packing tape. Duct tape would work as well I think.
Good thing is the tool isn't as complicated as it would appear. The magnetic systems appear to be removeable and replaceable if any issues arise. The retainer case comes out with the lock spring and pivot. The pliers closure casing slips out when the pivot is removed. I haven't tried loosening the pivot yet to take it apart, but will do so at some point and take photos.
Post by: McStitchy on April 25, 2019, 08:50:45 PM
Great awl shape, Matt! :like:
The P series awl looks like a good candidate for sharpening the tip. The driver tip on the file would likely be small enough for most flat drive screws.
AW,
Good point on the ease of clean. I got some steel wool dust on the retainer magnet housing, inside the tool, earlier today and was able to clean it off with packing tape. Duct tape would work as well I think.
Good thing is the tool isn't as complicated as it would appear. The magnetic systems appear to be removeable and replaceable if any issues arise. The retainer case comes out with the lock spring and pivot. The pliers closure casing slips out when the pivot is removed. I haven't tried loosening the pivot yet to take it apart, but will do so at some point and take photos.
Thanks :hatsoff:
And good idea using take to remove the steel wool dust :tu:
Looking forward to the pivot details :popcorn:
Post by: ZapWizard on April 25, 2019, 09:23:02 PM
I received my Free P4.
I took a ton of photos comparing the tool to the Charge, as well as took it apart.
Here is a link to the exploded view. (https://i.imgur.com/xA2sFKt.jpg)
Here is the gallery of images. (https://imgur.com/a/QG7viMp)
And finally a video review (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3l-FYPbHGY)
My biggest gripes are the small file and lack of bit-driver. I am planning a few mods, and I am currently working on a detailed 3D model of the Free P4. I will use this to design a custom fit holster. I do think it is overpriced, but I really like the magnetic opening/closing. I hate needing two hands and finger nails to use my Charge. The P4 will probably become my EDC tool because it is also slimmer than the Charge TTI.
----------------------
Magnets:
The magnets are 0.251"x0.511"x0.640" (6.37mmx13mmx1.60mm)
The magnets themselves are quite strong for their size. They seem to be high quality. They had small plastic guard, presumably to prevent the magnets from smacking into each other, which is great as Neodymium magnets aren't actually solid silvery metal as many think, they usually compressed powder which is nickel plated, and can break open.
On the inside of the tool the magnets make contact with the flat surface on each of the tools while folded. The magnets will probably pull away any metal shaving from getting into the hinges, but then any build up will collect on this mating surface. The good news is it is exposed enough with the tools deployed that you can probably get in and clean the magnet surface with a stronger magnet.
The magnets are secured by the thin metal springs in the tool. The little plastic bit doesn't do anything to hold them in place. I bet the plastic just makes it easier to clean off dust.
They can be replaced by require taking apart the whole tool.
Possible replacement magnet for future reference (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B841), and N52 model (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B841-N52)
----------------------
Modifying the tool:
The tool is just a stack-up of parts around chicago screws, you can probably take the tool apart and re-arrange the tools if you want. The screws have strong lock-tite on the threads.
The small screws and lanyard/belt clip screws are #2-56, the larger screws are #6-40.
Post by: Buzzbait on April 25, 2019, 09:35:06 PM
Howdy folks,
I received my Free P4.
I took a ton of photos comparing the tool to the Charge, as well as took it apart.
Here is a link to the exploded view. (https://i.imgur.com/xA2sFKt.jpg)
Here is the gallery of images. (https://imgur.com/a/QG7viMp)
And finally a video review (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3l-FYPbHGY)
My biggest gripes are the small file and lack of bit-driver. I am planning a few mods, and I am currently working on a detailed 3D model of the Free P4. I will use this to design a custom fit holster. I do think it is overpriced, but I really like the magnetic opening/closing. I hate needing two hands and finger nails to use my Charge. The P4 will probably become my EDC tool because it is also slimmer than the Charge TTI.
----------------------
Magnets:
The magnets are 0.251"x0.511"x0.640" (6.37mmx13mmx1.60mm)
The magnets themselves are quite strong for their size. They seem to be high quality. They had small plastic guard, presumably to prevent the magnets from smacking into each other, which is great as Neodymium magnets aren't actually solid silvery metal as many think, they usually compressed powder which is nickel plated, and can break open.
On the inside of the tool the magnets make contact with the flat surface on each of the tools while folded. The magnets will probably pull away any metal shaving from getting into the hinges, but then any build up will collect on this mating surface. The good news is it is exposed enough with the tools deployed that you can probably get in and clean the magnet surface with a stronger magnet.
The magnets are secured by the thin metal springs in the tool. The little plastic bit doesn't do anything to hold them in place. I bet the plastic just makes it easier to clean off dust.
They can be replaced by require taking apart the whole tool.
Possible replacement magnet for future reference (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B841), and N52 model (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B841-N52)
----------------------
Modifying the tool:
The tool is just a stack-up of parts around chicago screws, you can probably take the tool apart and re-arrange the tools if you want. The screws have strong lock-tite on the threads.
The small screws and lanyard/belt clip screws are #2-56, the larger screws are #6-40.
Bravo!!! Well done.It looks like the elastomer bushings could pretty easily be DIY replaced, if necessary.
Post by: SteveC on April 25, 2019, 09:43:06 PM
I'm going to put this here just cause it's cool :tu:
(https://i.imgur.com/xA2sFKt.jpg)
Post by: gregpost on April 25, 2019, 09:46:17 PM
Post by: McStitchy on April 25, 2019, 10:24:53 PM
Howdy folks,
I received my Free P4.
I took a ton of photos comparing the tool to the Charge, as well as took it apart.
Here is a link to the exploded view. (https://i.imgur.com/xA2sFKt.jpg)
Here is the gallery of images. (https://imgur.com/a/QG7viMp)
And finally a video review (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3l-FYPbHGY)
My biggest gripes are the small file and lack of bit-driver. I am planning a few mods, and I am currently working on a detailed 3D model of the Free P4. I will use this to design a custom fit holster. I do think it is overpriced, but I really like the magnetic opening/closing. I hate needing two hands and finger nails to use my Charge. The P4 will probably become my EDC tool because it is also slimmer than the Charge TTI.
----------------------
Magnets:
The magnets are 0.251"x0.511"x0.640" (6.37mmx13mmx1.60mm)
The magnets themselves are quite strong for their size. They seem to be high quality. They had small plastic guard, presumably to prevent the magnets from smacking into each other, which is great as Neodymium magnets aren't actually solid silvery metal as many think, they usually compressed powder which is nickel plated, and can break open.
On the inside of the tool the magnets make contact with the flat surface on each of the tools while folded. The magnets will probably pull away any metal shaving from getting into the hinges, but then any build up will collect on this mating surface. The good news is it is exposed enough with the tools deployed that you can probably get in and clean the magnet surface with a stronger magnet.
The magnets are secured by the thin metal springs in the tool. The little plastic bit doesn't do anything to hold them in place. I bet the plastic just makes it easier to clean off dust.
They can be replaced by require taking apart the whole tool.
Possible replacement magnet for future reference (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B841), and N52 model (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B841-N52)
----------------------
Modifying the tool:
The tool is just a stack-up of parts around chicago screws, you can probably take the tool apart and re-arrange the tools if you want. The screws have strong lock-tite on the threads.
The small screws and lanyard/belt clip screws are #2-56, the larger screws are #6-40.
Wow... excellent info. Thank you very much ZapWizard :like:
And welcome to :MTO:
Post by: Syncop8r on April 25, 2019, 10:32:37 PM
Post by: Syncop8r on April 25, 2019, 10:34:00 PM
Why do they insist on two blades? Ditch the serrated, and have a proper file.The serrated blade is the most-used implement on my Surge. :twak:
Post by: ZapWizard on April 25, 2019, 10:34:33 PM
.It looks like the elastomer bushings could pretty easily be DIY replaced, if necessary.
They look to be simply cut from cord stock. You probably could cut up an o-ring in a pinch if needed.
I'm going to put this here just cause it's cool :tu:
I look forward to seeing what Leatherman does with the Free series in the future. Regardless of the magnet, the new lock/folding mechanism is far improved. You can see that every implement has the same shape. Modding should be easier also as the parts just stacked up with Chicago screws and washers. No need to have the perfect torque on the assembly screws.
Post by: algernonramone on April 25, 2019, 11:14:10 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 25, 2019, 11:30:24 PM
I just got my P4 yesterday, and I don't have a lot to add except that I really like it so far, and I think Leatherman really has a winner on their hands.:iagree:
Thanks for posting that!
Y'all,
Looks like the elastomer cushions would be an easy fix of needed. :woohoo:
Thank you, Zapwizard, for the work, post and pics! I feel even more comfortable with my purchase now, knowing the elastomer things aren't even bushings, but more like cushions. Splendid.
Post by: McStitchy on April 26, 2019, 12:03:07 AM
So much quoting. :ahhh
:dunno:
Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 26, 2019, 12:40:41 AM
Modifying the tool:
The tool is just a stack-up of parts around chicago screws, you can probably take the tool apart and re-arrange the tools if you want. The screws have strong lock-tite on the threads.
The small screws and lanyard/belt clip screws are #2-56, the larger screws are #6-40.
Thanks for the insights, Zap :tu:
Can I test your brain on one thing, please? What would be stopping someone buying a P4, and removing the knife layer to make it bladeless, if they lived/worked somewhere where a knifeless tool would be advantageous? I can't see anything beyond needing to shorten the screws a little, except maybe the lock release :think:
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 26, 2019, 03:44:12 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 26, 2019, 05:59:59 AM
Yes, I painted the part of the Wave file that shows when closed. Think making lists is OCD? hehe :whistle:
Any questions, just let me know. :)
Scissors:
(https://i.imgur.com/FzeGN8C.jpg)
Big flat drivers. The P series big-flat doubles as a package opener/pry bar. The Spirit big-flat double as a pry bar/wire bender. Wave is a just a big flat and can be used for medium MT prying duties like opening rusty paint cans.
(https://i.imgur.com/NVuB3UK.jpg)
Side view of steel stock used and profile.
(https://i.imgur.com/gCS46Ze.jpg)
P series small flat doubles as an awl/sewing thingy. The Spirit has a small-ish dedicated flat-driver and actual pointy awl without sewing eye. Wave has reversible micro-phillips and flat-driver exchanger, but no awl to speak of.
(https://i.imgur.com/wPV6Ic7.jpg)
Phillips drivers profile shot. The Spirit and P series phillips are similar in profile, but the P phillips would be better for #2 phillips and possible larger screw heads. Of course the Wave has the awesome bit exchanger, which includes from the factory a #2 phillips/medium flat combo bit.
(https://i.imgur.com/0xqcPqu.jpg)
Can openers. P series went with a semi-circle for the new line. No extra use for the can opener on the P series. The Spirit has a medium-ish flat driver on the tip. The Wave can opener has a nice wire stripper integrated.
(https://i.imgur.com/qnPY7WY.jpg)
Serrated blades. I used my butter-blade Spirit version for the shot.
(https://i.imgur.com/T9Ksfsz.jpg)
Plain edge blades. I used my regular blade Spirit version for this shot.
(https://i.imgur.com/SBIZfJF.jpg)
Wood Saws. All tapered and sharp as smurf. The P4 saw is thick and stout feeling. The Spirit saw is thin and would jam less easily, but be a little weaker. The Wave saw is in between the two.
(https://i.imgur.com/WSxPl0M.jpg)
FILES. O.k. Wave and Spirit win this one HANDS DOWN. I won't go into too much detail, but all of them are nicely cut/made(with the Spirit and Free files being precision cut). The P2/P4 file is very short with a cross-cut side and single-cut side. The Spirit has a cross-cut on each side with very slightly different aggressiveness(nearly redundant). Wave has a cross-cut side and diamond-coated side(diamond coated is very nice for fine finishing file-work.
(https://i.imgur.com/fZL584i.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/7NihIGG.jpg)
Combo tools. The previously pictured P series flat driver is also a package opener. The Spirit has a tool dedicated to being a chiselly-thingie and wire-stripper. Spirit wins this one hands-down. Wish LM had done more of the circle grinding edges on the P series. The P series does offer a small wire stripper on the medium flat driver, complete with Carl Sagan style instructions etched onto the blade.
(https://i.imgur.com/9SrYpEY.jpg)
Pliers. Free series has a beefy pivot, but small bolt-area. Spirit has a small bolt area, but has more room in the bolt area, because the cutters are ridiculously small compared to modern tools. P4 and Wave+ have replaceable cutter blades, which I really like. Victorinox needs to follow suit with replaceable cutters AND stop using rivets on the SwissTools. I like screws I can tighten/loosen/service the tool with.
(https://i.imgur.com/8VoGWB6.jpg)
P2, P4, Spirit, Wave, and Charge TTi in a row.
(https://i.imgur.com/3XXWB1h.jpg)
P2 and P4 side-by side shots.
(https://i.imgur.com/F3RtwW7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eF9IKOd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xDv8J2a.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/D2Iy9a4.jpg)
Post by: ZapWizard on April 26, 2019, 06:18:45 AM
Can I test your brain on one thing, please? What would be stopping someone buying a P4, and removing the knife layer to make it bladeless, if they lived/worked somewhere where a knifeless tool would be advantageous? I can't see anything beyond needing to shorten the screws a little, except maybe the lock release :think:
I think the tool can be disassembled and reassembled easily enough, but there are a lot of parts to get back into place. The large screws use a nylon patch, which won't get any more solid over time. The small screws however use high strength chemical thread locker, and will get harder to remove over time. Applying some heat will break the bond though.
The straight blade is precisely 0.100" thick. The mounting hole is 0.120" in diameter. You could replace the blade with a washer that is up to 0.35" in diameter. McMaster part: 99604A101 (https://www.mcmaster.com/99604a101) probably would work.
Another option is to laser-cut some other useful implement out of 0.1" plastic (https://www.mcmaster.com/8575k112), or water jet something from metal. (https://www.mcmaster.com/1773t7)
Post by: Aloha on April 26, 2019, 06:39:51 AM
Post by: ZapWizard on April 26, 2019, 07:26:10 AM
Really neat to see the tool taken apart and photographed. I qapprectiare all you've added to this thread. I was also wondering who would be the first to take their tool apart :D.
My other daily carry is a "Make Warranty Voider" (https://makezine.com/2009/06/19/in-the-maker-shed-make-warranty-voi/). 8)
--------------
(https://i.imgur.com/ma9mJV0.jpg)
This is the result of two evenings of 3D modeling so far. (I haven't yet modeled the pliers.)
On previous tools I only made a representative model, accurate only on the external most dimensions and any parts the holster interacted with.
This time I wanted to challenge myself to make a extremely accurate 3D model. I also did it as a sort of skill builder, to get better at CAD and product design.
--------------
(https://i.imgur.com/fu6rSar.jpg)
After I took it apart: I took a macro photo on each part with a ruler in the shot. I use this, along with calipers, to 3D model each component in detail. The accuracy this way ends up about +/- 0.3mm.
The blade image above could for example be used by an enterprising individual to make a replacement blade from better steel (To those able to do that :pok: send me one when your done).
Once I sign up for R&D access forum: I will make a thread to get feedback on potential mods and holster designs.
Post by: Syncop8r on April 26, 2019, 10:58:37 AM
Oh and
Think making lists is OCD? hehe :whistle:
(https://i.imgur.com/T9Ksfsz.jpg):pok:
Post by: Poncho65 on April 26, 2019, 12:10:28 PM
and Welcome to :MTO: Zapwizard :cheers: Great exploded view of the Free as well :dd: :like:
Post by: Wspeed on April 26, 2019, 12:40:29 PM
Post by: Monrogue on April 26, 2019, 02:42:41 PM
I appreciate each who have shared their impressions and pictures of the new toys.Ok, here is a pic of my P2 clipped in front right pocket.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190426/03024455dc437353815c448da9cb026c.jpg)
One item I have not read, yet, is the pocket clip and how the P2 and P4 will ride in a front pocket.
Thank you AWL
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Aloha on April 26, 2019, 02:49:05 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 26, 2019, 02:51:18 PM
Great photos GLBM. Holy smurf they took ages to load on my crappy internet connection though. Do you resize them at all?:cheers: thanks, Syncop8r!
Oh and :pok:
:rofl:
I like to offer pics that can be blown up. I forget some people don't have super fast internet connections. Sorry about that. :facepalm:
Good point out. :rofl:
In regards to the three blades not being identically oriented in that photo, the already shortish(relative to the P4 and Wave) SE blade looked WAY to short when placed with blade/edge-to-the-right, so a desicion was made to face it the other way to make the comparison fair. I hate that photo too. :rofl:
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 26, 2019, 02:52:07 PM
Excellent pics GLBM and ZW :like: :tu:Thank you, W! :cheers:
Ok, here is a pic of my P2 clipped in front right pocket.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190426/03024455dc437353815c448da9cb026c.jpg)Very nice. :like:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Monrogue on April 26, 2019, 02:54:49 PM
Looks like a good fit.
Yeah, just peeks out a bit, but not bad at all.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 26, 2019, 03:00:30 PM
...
You could always use two security torx bits to tighten the pivot a little, if you're worried about any tools popping open when slipping the pliers or cutting something thick. But, if LM had made the tools tighter, then they wouldn't be easily opened OH and people would be talking about how tight they are. Catch-22.
...
When I read this I thought you were right, and I wanted to comment that it reminded me of people saying they wanted torx bits on the Spirit instead of rivets, so they could tighten or loosen it. Which is also a Catch-22 since the rivets as they are don't need tightening/loosening, and what do I read on the next page ... :pok:
... Victorinox needs to follow suit with replaceable cutters AND stop using rivets on the SwissTools. I like screws I can tighten/loosen/service the tool with.
I can only speak for myself but I have never experienced any kind of loosening on the tools of my Swisstools or Spirits, that's the beauty about their design, it's rock solid. And the whole movements of opening the pliers and the click when you close them again are all pure mechanickal (no, not you Nick :twak:), I mean ... I do like that the Free seems to offer the same experience, but I also do think that the magnets are a bit like cheating to achieve the same feeling people have on the Swisstools.
And don't get me wrong, I really like what I'm seeing (and reading) here in this topic, from the pics shown here I would say that the Free looks like the lovechild of a ST300 and a Swisstool/Spirit. I mean, some of the tools have a real Victorinox look going on, the big flat/prybar, the combo tools, the design of the phillips and even the can-opener. To be honest, I always liked how sturdy the phillips was on the Swisstool/Spirit, but I preferred the tip of the phillips on the ST300/Rebar, especially when I had to use it for a longer period, for one screw it didn't matter, but if I had to use it on 10 screws or more, I always grabbed for my ST300 or Rebar.
And you're absolutely right about Victorinox needing to upgrade their tools with replaceable cutters. I don't understand why they haven't done it already, it wouldn't take much R & D to design it, and it would only affect the production of the plierhead, and I think it would boost the sales of the Swisstools quite a bit (I know I would like to get one right away, and by one I probably mean 4 or 5 ::)).
Anyway, really liking the looks of the Free P4 and I guess I've made my choice and I'm going to get myself one (but if it fits, I will wear it in one of my black sheaths ... :P).
;)
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 26, 2019, 03:05:43 PM
I meant to implicate the problem with the SwissTools as the problems I have with them. My Spirit is almost too tight to use after 30 days at my work. And I'd love to be able to loosen the pivots to clean them out and reduce nail breakage. A little metal dust got in my Spirit pivots and not you can see the half moon scoring in the pivots, because I can't get them perfectly clean/loosened. I do not like rivets for those reasons. :facepalm:
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 26, 2019, 03:18:07 PM
Sorry about my wording, T-G!
I meant to implicate the problem with the SwissTools as the problems I have with them. My Spirit is almost too tight to use after 30 days at my work. And I'd love to be able to loosen the pivots to clean them out and reduce nail breakage. A little metal dust got in my Spirit pivots and not you can see the half moon scoring in the pivots, because I can't get them perfectly clean/loosened. I do not like rivets for those reasons. :facepalm:
No need to apologize mate, I have no problem with what you said.
I mean, we all use our tools for very different things, and since I never had the tools on my Spirit/Swisstool tighten up I assumed this didn't happen on them. And I've always been able to clean them and remove any bits by cleaning them out using nothing but hot running tap water and a small brush. But like I said, you might use them for a lot of different stuff than I do.
P.S.: Just found out that the Free P4 will get to Belgium (and to me :whistle:) a little sooner than August ... :woohoo:
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 26, 2019, 03:22:54 PM
No need to apologize mate, I have no problem with what you said.:cheers: thanks, man!
I mean, we all use our tools for very different things, and since I never had the tools on my Spirit/Swisstool tighten up I assumed this didn't happen on them. And I've always been able to clean them and remove any bits by cleaning them out using nothing but hot running tap water and a small brush. But like I said, you might use them for a lot of different stuff than I do.
P.S.: Just found out that the Free P4 will get to Belgium (and to me :whistle:) a little sooner than August ... :woohoo:
:like:
Glad to read they will be available soon! How many of each are you going to buy? :think: :woohoo: :D
Post by: Buzzbait on April 26, 2019, 04:51:14 PM
And I'd love to be able to loosen the pivots to clean them out and reduce nail breakage. A little metal dust got in my Spirit pivots and not you can see the half moon scoring in the pivots, because I can't get them perfectly clean/loosened. I do not like rivets for those reasons. :facepalm:
I loved the Spirit until this happened to me also. It was a nightmare to get the tools opening and closing properly again, and they still feel a bit gritty. It was when this first happened that my true love for the Wave began.
Post by: Mechanickal on April 26, 2019, 05:15:05 PM
Just found out that the Free P4 will get to Belgium (and to me :whistle:) a little sooner than August ... :woohoo:
Ah... the wealthy 1%
:rofl:
I do want to see it when we meet up!! :pok:
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 26, 2019, 05:47:39 PM
I loved the Spirit until this happened to me also. It was a nightmare to get the tools opening and closing properly again, and they still feel a bit gritty. It was when this first happened that my true love for the Wave began.Funny you mention that. I've developed a strong affection for the Wave and Charge. The exchangeable bit drivers sealed the deal.
And, of course as you know, we can take the Wave apart and make it function like new again.
The more people mention it, the more I wish, at least, the P4 had the driver exchanger or included a slip-over adapter that works with the bit kit. :multi:
Post by: Wspeed on April 26, 2019, 05:51:33 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on April 26, 2019, 06:58:12 PM
Funny you mention that. I've developed a strong affection for the Wave and Charge. The exchangeable bit drivers sealed the deal.
And, of course as you know, we can take the Wave apart and make it function like new again.
The more people mention it, the more I wish, at least, the P4 had the driver exchanger or included a slip-over adapter that works with the bit kit. :multi:
I wonder how much modding it would take to make the bit kit work with it, maybe it's just a mild filing job on the philips
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 26, 2019, 07:28:25 PM
Ah... the wealthy 1%
:rofl:
I do want to see it when we meet up!! :pok:
You mean the hungry ... :P
Oh well, I've got some reserve build up so I can go a couple of weeks on old bread an water ::).
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 26, 2019, 07:30:24 PM
I'd love to be able to loosen the pivots to clean them out and reduce nail breakage. A little metal dust got in my Spirit pivots and not you can see the half moon scoring in the pivots, because I can't get them perfectly clean/loosened. I do not like rivets for those reasons... :facepalm:
I loved the Spirit until this happened to me also. It was a nightmare to get the tools opening and closing properly again, and they still feel a bit gritty. It was when this first happened that my true love for the Wave began.
Again, I'm not questioning what you guys are saying, but I must do different things with it because I can say that my first butterblade Spirit (one of the 5 I own) is my most used tool by far, mostly used during construction jobs and home decoration, and I've used about every tool in it during those tasks, and a lot of junk got in it, from sawdust and gyproc to metal shavings.
I even dropped it in a bucket with wallpaper paste (you know, when you drop your tool and there's one spot it really shouldn't fall ... ::)), and all it took was rinsing it with hot water while using a fine brush and opening/closing each of the tools a lot (and it did take a lot of rinsing after the wallpaper paste incident ...), drying it with a hairdryer and oiling it up again to get it into perfect condition again. But I've never had to open up one of my Wave's either, and my stainles New Wave (so the one before the "+") is my second most used tool, so maybe I'm not that hard on my tools after all.
Anyway, enough about the Spirit, this is a Leatherman Free topic ;).
Show content
When I get a P4, I'll drop it in a bucket with wallpaper paste to compare it with the Spirit :D.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsL1E_-kr2Q
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 26, 2019, 08:48:43 PM
Post by: McStitchy on April 26, 2019, 09:00:50 PM
Looking forward to your P4
Post by: LoopCutter on April 26, 2019, 09:11:10 PM
I have read through the two threads discussing the NEW P4 and P2 MTs from Leatherman.
Yet, I have not figured how these new gadgets can be had for FREE????
Many have said they have just received their new FREE P4 or FREE P2, but no mention of how they got it for FREE.
Am I the only one???
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Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 26, 2019, 09:26:07 PM
OK now!!!
I have read through the two threads discussing the NEW P4 and P2 MTs from Leatherman.
Yet, I have not figured how these new gadgets can be had for FREE????
Many have said they have just received their new FREE P4 or FREE P2, but no mention of how they got it for FREE.
Am I the only one???
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't know about the U.S., but over here Free apparently equals one kidney ... ::)
(don't ask me how I know that ... :-\)
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 26, 2019, 10:25:56 PM
OK now!!!I just donated $119 to Tim Leatherman's company and got my Free Free P2. Then I donated $139 to Tim Leatherman's company and got my Free Pree P4. :D
I have read through the two threads discussing the NEW P4 and P2 MTs from Leatherman.
Yet, I have not figured how these new gadgets can be had for FREE????
Many have said they have just received their new FREE P4 or FREE P2, but no mention of how they got it for FREE.
Am I the only one???
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Wspeed on April 26, 2019, 10:26:42 PM
Post by: Sea Monster on April 27, 2019, 12:12:11 AM
There's no pleasing you whinging smurfs!
I can only assume the design teams from SOG, Vic, LM and Gerber are in a bar somewhere passing a scotch bottle and commiserating over endless criticism they face at the hands of the MT.O members....
Post by: genevabuck on April 27, 2019, 12:24:51 AM
Post by: algernonramone on April 27, 2019, 01:02:39 AM
Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 27, 2019, 01:27:18 AM
OK now!!!
I have read through the two threads discussing the NEW P4 and P2 MTs from Leatherman.
Yet, I have not figured how these new gadgets can be had for FREE????
Many have said they have just received their new FREE P4 or FREE P2, but no mention of how they got it for FREE.
Am I the only one???
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They only come free with the $120 and $140 grey sheaths
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 27, 2019, 04:50:04 AM
You get a flat bit driver, you want a 1/4" driver, you get a single tool driver, you want a flat bit driver, you get replaceable cutters, you want more space and better gripping pliers, you get space and gripping pliers, you want replaceable cutters, you want tight tolerances and smooth action, but adjustable tensions and easy disassembly!!I have to agree. Not the way I worded it when I said something similar in the other thread(about there can never be a 'perfect MT'), but I can appreciate the crassness to some extent. :salute:
There's no pleasing you whinging smurfs!
I can only assume the design teams from SOG, Vic, LM and Gerber are in a bar somewhere passing a scotch bottle and commiserating over endless criticism they face at the hands of the MT.O members....
I am delightfully happy with the P2 and P4. Great 'average joe' EDC multitools. :)
Post by: Aloha on April 27, 2019, 06:59:48 AM
They only come free with the $120 and $140 grey sheaths
:whistle:
:rofl:
Post by: LoopCutter on April 27, 2019, 02:34:49 PM
I get it.
The name is conflicting.
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Post by: gerleatherberman on April 27, 2019, 03:55:23 PM
So the tools are FREE, the Super cool Grey Sheaths are costly?:rofl:
I get it.
The name is conflicting.
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Post by: Aloha on April 27, 2019, 04:13:31 PM
You get a flat bit driver, you want a 1/4" driver, you get a single tool driver, you want a flat bit driver, you get replaceable cutters, you want more space and better gripping pliers, you get space and gripping pliers, you want replaceable cutters, you want tight tolerances and smooth action, but adjustable tensions and easy disassembly!!
There's no pleasing you whinging smurfs!
I can only assume the design teams from SOG, Vic, LM and Gerber are in a bar somewhere passing a scotch bottle and commiserating over endless criticism they face at the hands of the MT.O members....
You are very right :whistle:. I do think however that the fine folks of MTO have the best of intentions when discussing these tools. I'd like to think we have some influence when the makers decide what next to build? Pretty sure we dont << pointing at you Victorinox >>.
There will always be one side no matter the perceived or real criticism that will be influenced to buy as a result of these discussions. They will have to see for themselves is their view. We dont represent the vast majority in terms of how we view these tools. While many here are heavy users or regular users even a greater many are enthusiasts that just like discussing these terrific mechanical hand held objects.
If on any level we can spark one or all of these makers, dare I say ignite these makers to not become complacent then we have done any and all MT aficionados, users, collectors, gift buyers, and every other type right!
Yes we moan and take the piss out of these makers but we also buy. We promote and we offer IMO a valuable resource to the makers and end users.
Again you are very right in your post and I absolutely liked it very much :salute:.
I would love to walk into that bar myself and listen to them :rofl:
Post by: McStitchy on April 27, 2019, 05:18:10 PM
Post by: LoopCutter on April 27, 2019, 06:22:52 PM
We however, are not the targeted buyers. The manufactures want to lure in the newbie, the novice, fence sitter, because once the hook is set, then the search begins for the PERFECT Product for their needs.
We here at MTo have already been caught up with the itch.
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Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 27, 2019, 06:38:20 PM
Aloha- Your words make sense, yet, MTo is still a great community, made up of contributing (thoughts) members who can participate in a conversation regardless of the direction. And, it is known that we will buy any tool or knife that is made and justify that purchase.
We however, are not the targeted buyers. The manufactures want to lure in the newbie, the novice, fence sitter, because once the hook is set, then the search begins for the PERFECT Product for their needs.
We here at MTo have already been caught up with the itch.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm not sure...
We've got quite a diverse mix here, really. We're got...
A) Those that want to catch them all
B) The eager newcomers
C) The tinkerers, who aren't happy till they've put their own tweaks on a tool.
D) The heavy tool users
E) The occasional or light tool users
F) The settled ones, who tried all they want to, and are now content with a chosen few
G) The ones that we probably influence the most. The lurkers, who come here not to talk, but just to soak up all the diverse rambling of those who do post.
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 27, 2019, 07:51:16 PM
Guilty of A and D here. :woohoo:
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 27, 2019, 08:04:04 PM
You are very right :whistle:. I do think however that the fine folks of MTO have the best of intentions when discussing these tools. I'd like to think we have some influence when the makers decide what next to build? Pretty sure we dont << pointing at you Victorinox >>.
There will always be one side no matter the perceived or real criticism that will be influenced to buy as a result of these discussions. They will have to see for themselves is their view. We dont represent the vast majority in terms of how we view these tools. While many here are heavy users or regular users even a greater many are enthusiasts that just like discussing these terrific mechanical hand held objects.
If on any level we can spark one or all of these makers, dare I say ignite these makers to not become complacent then we have done any and all MT aficionados, users, collectors, gift buyers, and every other type right!
Yes we moan and take the piss out of these makers but we also buy. We promote and we offer IMO a valuable resource to the makers and end users.
Again you are very right in your post and I absolutely liked it very much :salute:.
I would love to walk into that bar myself and listen to them :rofl:
I do seem to remember hearing things like "I want a pioneer with scissors", or "How hard can it be for Victorinox to put scissors into the 93mm knives" or "Looking for someone to mod my pioneer with some scissors ..." here over and over again some time ago.
And which tool became "MTO multitool of 2016" again :think:.
Not saying that was on us, but then again, when are we ever really sure we were the ones who got something done :dunno:.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 27, 2019, 08:31:24 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/8EB9V1s.jpg)
No, it's not a typo, 199,95€ ... :facepalm:
(https://i.imgur.com/ZnOYzLn.jpg)
So much cash, and not even a new Leatherman logo sticker ... :-[
(https://i.imgur.com/JWd3FT2.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/ai0ViAG.jpg)
Even though I'm not from the U.S., seeing U.S.A. on the pliers of a new Leatherman again after all these years did give me goosebumps (okay, my Limited Edition PST's also have U.S.A. on the pliers, but the PST is not really a new tool now is it?).
(https://i.imgur.com/6ocSFO7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HJcsLSj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HRk3ROD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TJpTjbY.jpg)
Post by: Wspeed on April 27, 2019, 08:45:36 PM
Post by: gregpost on April 27, 2019, 08:46:00 PM
I'm not sure...
We've got quite a diverse mix here, really. We're got...
A) Those that want to catch them all
B) The eager newcomers
C) The tinkerers, who aren't happy till they've put their own tweaks on a tool.
D) The heavy tool users
E) The occasional or light tool users
F) The settled ones, who tried all they want to, and are now content with a chosen few
G) The ones that we probably influence the most. The lurkers, who come here not to talk, but just to soak up all the diverse rambling of those who do post.
H) The searcher. I have plenty of multitools that I use but I feel like I still don't have a perfect edc multitol. Still searching.
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 27, 2019, 09:00:01 PM
Here are some pics of my Free P4 (pics taken indoors with smartphone and bad lighting conditions ...)Very nice! :like:
(https://i.imgur.com/8EB9V1s.jpg)
No, it's not a typo, 199,95€ ... :facepalm:
(https://i.imgur.com/ZnOYzLn.jpg)
So much cash, and not even a new Leatherman logo sticker ... :-[
(https://i.imgur.com/JWd3FT2.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/ai0ViAG.jpg)
Even though I'm not from the U.S., seeing U.S.A. on the pliers of a new Leatherman again after all these years did give me goosebumps (okay, my Limited Edition PST's also have U.S.A. on the pliers, but the PST is not really a new tool now is it?).
(https://i.imgur.com/6ocSFO7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HJcsLSj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HRk3ROD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TJpTjbY.jpg)
I can't believe yours didn't have a sticker. The P4 I got had one. :dunno:
Maybe they forgot. :rant:
I feel the same way. LM had gone so long without a country of origin stamp. Good to see it on the pliers and blade of the P2/P4. :)
In the time being, I can't stop flicking/folding the tools and pliers in and out on the P4. Such sweet satisfaction. :)
Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 27, 2019, 09:18:09 PM
H) The searcher. I have plenty of multitools that I use but I feel like I still don't have a perfect edc multitol. Still searching.
:2tu:
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 27, 2019, 09:21:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi1fJAZdrLI
Post by: tosh on April 27, 2019, 09:39:16 PM
Leathermans have always been costly to us Brits, but the RRP on the FREE series takes it to a whole new level. But yet, I honestly cannot see what the gain is over existing models? To me, it still sounds inferior to the Wave. :think:
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 27, 2019, 10:10:54 PM
I just cannot get over just how expensive this tool is :facepalm:
Leathermans have always been costly to us Brits, but the RRP on the FREE series takes it to a whole new level. But yet, I honestly cannot see what the gain is?
To be honest, I don't see anything that could justify the +50€ that the Free P4 cost more than the Wave + over here.
Don't get me wrong, I like it and I won't return it to the shop (even though I have a 30 days return option), but I bought this tool in the first place as a collector, not as a user.
Because the user in me has been happy for ages now with the tools he has, I own something between 40 and 60 plier based multitools now (not counting SAKS), and I only really use about 8 of them, being one of my Spirits, one of my Swisstools, one of my New Waves (model before the + version), one of my Wave +'s, one of my BO Charge +'s, one of my Surges, one of my ST300's, and one of my Rebars. Oh, and a Style CS.
Would the P4 be enough for somebody, let's say someone new to multitools, who only wants to buy one tool to fill all his needs ? I think so. But then again, so would a Wave +, or a Surge, or a Spirit, or ... Well, we are a bit spoiled aren't we ?
So I like it, but I believe a price between the ST300 and a Wave + would be more appropriate. Maybe in a couple of years, when Leatherman has its R&D and new machinery investment back, they'll drop the price to the correct level.
But as a collector, I'm thrilled I own one, and it is big fun to fiddle with :multi:.
Post by: tosh on April 27, 2019, 10:26:05 PM
As curios as I am. I'm going to resist buying this just yet. It's not going anywhere.
Like I posted before. I reckon this will be part of LM's 40th anniversary tool set,
If I'm honest. I don't particularly like it - aesthetically it does nothing for me. That's probably because its such a radical step away from what we normally see from LM. The blade profile reminds me of the Gerber Balance which I edc at work and loathe. I don't care for 3D drivers either.
But one for the collection would probably be good...I'll wait and see
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 27, 2019, 10:27:32 PM
Here's the first thing I tested ... :whistle:That needs to be posted to LM's facebook, and the giant biceps/small forearm-tattoo dude's page as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi1fJAZdrLI
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 27, 2019, 10:30:37 PM
That needs to be posted to LM's facebook, and the giant biceps/small forearm-tattoo dude's page as well.
>:D
:D
Post by: Syncop8r on April 27, 2019, 10:31:51 PM
That needs to be posted to LM's facebook, and the giant biceps/small forearm-tattoo dude's page as well.That a 4¼" tool won't fit into a sheath that is meant for a 4" tool? :think:
Post by: Monrogue on April 27, 2019, 10:38:03 PM
Here are some pics of my Free P4 (pics taken indoors with smartphone and bad lighting conditions ...)
(https://i.imgur.com/8EB9V1s.jpg)
No, it's not a typo, 199,95€ ... :facepalm:
(https://i.imgur.com/ZnOYzLn.jpg)
So much cash, and not even a new Leatherman logo sticker ... :-[
(https://i.imgur.com/JWd3FT2.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/ai0ViAG.jpg)
Even though I'm not from the U.S., seeing U.S.A. on the pliers of a new Leatherman again after all these years did give me goosebumps (okay, my Limited Edition PST's also have U.S.A. on the pliers, but the PST is not really a new tool now is it?).
(https://i.imgur.com/6ocSFO7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HJcsLSj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HRk3ROD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TJpTjbY.jpg)
Whoa you got one already? How do you like it?
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 27, 2019, 10:47:55 PM
That a 4¼" tool won't fit into a sheath that is meant for a 4" tool? :think:
That I'm willing to try something as stupid as that to stay clear from the grey sheath :pok:
And in my defense, the Wave + has a bit of extra room between the sheath flap and the top of the Wave, and I thought the Free P4 with his 0,5cm extra would fit.
Edit: Just tested it again and with two hands I can close the snap-button. And I'm quite sure that when I leave it in for a couple of days it will get easier to do, maybe I should get out my camera and tripod and do a new Youtube clip :think:.
Post by: LoopCutter on April 27, 2019, 11:09:53 PM
Or, did lovely Bride score that for you?
It is my impression that you have one fantastic partner who understands your passions and supports your hobby.
Now I am slightly jealous
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Post by: Syncop8r on April 27, 2019, 11:12:31 PM
Post by: LoopCutter on April 27, 2019, 11:34:01 PM
If wet the black nylon and then fit it over the P4 and snap it shut, heat with a blow dryer it should then stretch and fit will going forward.
Edit: Just tested it again and with two hands I can close the snap-button. And I'm quite sure that when I leave it in for a couple of days it will get easier to do, maybe I should get out my camera and tripod and do a new Youtube clip :think:.
I would like to know if the P4 would fit tightly in a ST box style sheath. The length should not be problem, but, the width maybe.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: SteveC on April 27, 2019, 11:37:00 PM
Here's the first thing I tested ... :whistle:
Video not worky :pok:
Post by: LoopCutter on April 27, 2019, 11:41:24 PM
Ok, here is a pic of my P2 clipped in front right pocket.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190426/03024455dc437353815c448da9cb026c.jpg)Thanks for the picture of the tool pocket riding with clip. Much appreciated.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Is the clip removable?
Does it hinder the feel at all when holding either the P2 or P4?
I liked the clip on my Wave as an option to carry, but not when using the tool, the clip just felt in the way to me!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: LoopCutter on April 27, 2019, 11:44:02 PM
Video not worky :pok:He may have taken it down, to update it since he did finally get it to snap shut. Maybe!
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Post by: Brock O Lee on April 28, 2019, 12:51:59 AM
The lock release tabs seem like a possible hot spot?
I also see 2 strange little nubs sticking out of the handle in the grip area?
(https://i.postimg.cc/s23MBNpm/31-FE4225-DA90-4529-A8-CC-A8-F4-ADD25-AF6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K1sGwQp3)
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 28, 2019, 01:13:43 AM
He may have taken it down, to update it since he did finally get it to snap shut. Maybe!I changed it so that only people who had the link could see it, at least that's what I thought I did. But apparently I made it private...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:facepalm:
It should be fixed now :angel:.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 28, 2019, 01:36:50 AM
Congratulations Top-Gear on obtaining the P4.
Or, did lovely Bride score that for you?
It is my impression that you have one fantastic partner who understands your passions and supports your hobby.
Now I am slightly jealous
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the kind words mate :salute:.
I didn't expect the Free P4 here until August or so (that's the date one of the websites where I normally buy my stuff gave me). So I was quite surprised to see it available on the site of a local outdoor store franchise.
And when I showed it to my wife she probably already knew where this would lead to... So she just saved me and herself a couple of hours (days) of beating around the bush... :D
That's what 25 years together will do to you :D.
Post by: Ryo Saeba on April 28, 2019, 01:46:42 AM
Post by: LoopCutter on April 28, 2019, 01:54:52 AM
Thanks for the kind words mate :salute:.You are most welcome!
~
That's what 25 years together will do to you :D.
I know she is special, as you have share in other discussions. And I recall you meeting Tim Leatherman with the kids and pictures you shared. A good family bond.
Also, I have a special one as well
This Friday, will be our 44th married + 2 yrs getting to know one another.
I know, Off-Topic! Carry on.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 28, 2019, 02:15:23 AM
Whoa you got one already? How do you like it?
I like it, and fit and finish seems to be great but...
Do I think it's such a game-changer as Leatherman and others claim it is? No...
The locking mechanism is not as easy as it looks, at least not to me (maybe more fiddling is needed).
I also don't like the fact that they changed the position of the serrated knife compared to the Wave/Surge tools.
The tools on the awl side are very thin, I'm not saying this is going to be a problem, but they do feel a bit flimsy (if they should turn out to be easily damaged, there's always Leatherman famous warranty, and since I purchased it through an official Belgian dealer the Belgian Leatherman importer should help me with that without extra cost this time ::)).
But I don't want to sound too negative, because I've been playing with it all day and it is fun, and I do like it, but not so much that I'm going to put my Wave in the drawer and forget about it. In all honesty, If I could keep only one tool it would probably be my Surge or my Swisstool, not the Wave or the Free P4.
Just my 2 cents at this time, I haven't put it to work really, except for using the scissors and the Phillips two times.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 28, 2019, 02:22:45 AM
You are most welcome!Yep, meeting Tim Leatherman was special for all of us, and he did seem to appreciate the fact that my whole family was there and they all shared my tool/brand enthusiasm.
I know she is special, as you have share in other discussions. And I recall you meeting Tim Leatherman with the kids and pictures you shared. A good family bond.
Also, I have a special one as well
This Friday, will be our 44th married + 2 yrs getting to know one another.
I know, Off-Topic! Carry on.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Congrats on finding such a good Misses yourself mate, 46 years together :o.
:cheers:
Post by: clown on April 28, 2019, 03:53:09 AM
From what I've been reading it sounds like you can actually use everything one handed (which is enough of a selling point for me to buy one) but I was curious if they work with gloves. I may give the P4 a shot at replacing my ST300 for work EDC. Thanks!
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 28, 2019, 04:09:41 AM
How is the Free’s hand comfort when pressing down in pliers mode, compared to the Charge/Wave/Rebar?I have mid-large hands and do not feel the little alignment 'nubs'. The lock tabs don't present themselves to my hands when gripping, but some people grip it differently. I'll get some grip pics up in a bit. :tu:
The lock release tabs seem like a possible hot spot?
I also see 2 strange little nubs sticking out of the handle in the grip area?
(https://i.postimg.cc/s23MBNpm/31-FE4225-DA90-4529-A8-CC-A8-F4-ADD25-AF6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K1sGwQp3)
For those of you that have gotten your Free series tools already, can you open the implements with leather work gloves on?The long tools would be workable OHO with gloves, but the smaller tools may take some technique to use with gloves one-handed. :multi:
From what I've been reading it sounds like you can actually use everything one handed (which is enough of a selling point for me to buy one) but I was curious if they work with gloves. I may give the P4 a shot at replacing my ST300 for work EDC. Thanks!
I like it, and fit and finish seems to be great but...Just to clarify, I don't think any of us think it is a game changer. Not that I know of anyway. I am a bit dense sometimes.
Do I think it's such a game-changer as Leatherman and others claim it is? No...
The locking mechanism is not as easy as it looks, at least not to me (maybe more fiddling is needed).
I also don't like the fact that they changed the position of the serrated knife compared to the Wave/Surge tools.
The tools on the awl side are very thin, I'm not saying this is going to be a problem, but they do feel a bit flimsy (if they should turn out to be easily damaged, there's always Leatherman famous warranty, and since I purchased it through an official Belgian dealer the Belgian Leatherman importer should help me with that without extra cost this time ::)).
But I don't want to sound too negative, because I've been playing with it all day and it is fun, and I do like it, but not so much that I'm going to put my Wave in the drawer and forget about it. In all honesty, If I could keep only one tool it would probably be my Surge or my Swisstool, not the Wave or the Free P4.
Just my 2 cents at this time, I haven't put it to work really, except for using the scissors and the Phillips two times.
The lock system is really easy for me, but mainly because I got accustomed to it during the PowerAccess challenge. It also uses lock tabs that pull away from the pivot. Give it a week and it should be easier. Hypothetically anyway. :ahhh
I thought the same about the thinner tools, but then realized I have done some crazy smurf with the big driver on the Wave, which is kind of thin. And with the large flat driver/pry tool on the P, I wouldn't need to use the other tools for prying. Time will reveal the outcome of the thin tools though. :)
I'd keep the Surge too, if only one tool could be kept. It is damn near indestructible.
I like the P scissors, but still think the 91mm scissors on the Swisstool(not the silly scissors on the smaller spirit) are better. The P scissors could probably cut thicker material, but the 91mm vic scissors are so much better cutting thin material, and thin material is a majority of my cutting tasks.
Post by: Monrogue on April 28, 2019, 05:20:25 AM
Thanks for the picture of the tool pocket riding with clip. Much appreciated.
Is the clip removable?
Does it hinder the feel at all when holding either the P2 or P4?
I liked the clip on my Wave as an option to carry, but not when using the tool, the clip just felt in the way to me!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It is removable by the looks of it. I actually like it in the position it’s in as it is a place for my thumb to rest in plier mode.
Post by: Monrogue on April 28, 2019, 05:32:15 AM
I like it, and fit and finish seems to be great but...
Do I think it's such a game-changer as Leatherman and others claim it is? No...
The locking mechanism is not as easy as it looks, at least not to me (maybe more fiddling is needed).
I also don't like the fact that they changed the position of the serrated knife compared to the Wave/Surge tools.
The tools on the awl side are very thin, I'm not saying this is going to be a problem, but they do feel a bit flimsy (if they should turn out to be easily damaged, there's always Leatherman famous warranty, and since I purchased it through an official Belgian dealer the Belgian Leatherman importer should help me with that without extra cost this time ::)).
But I don't want to sound too negative, because I've been playing with it all day and it is fun, and I do like it, but not so much that I'm going to put my Wave in the drawer and forget about it. In all honesty, If I could keep only one tool it would probably be my Surge or my Swisstool, not the Wave or the Free P4.
Just my 2 cents at this time, I haven't put it to work really, except for using the scissors and the Phillips two times.
I hear you on your points. It won’t completely replace my Wave either, but it certainly will be a top tool in my “rotation”. Also I can one hand open my Wave’s pliers, although it’s not as enjoyable as the Free’s. I’m happy having a OHO knife and pliers, so the Wave fits too, and it has the diamond file. So yeah, overall the Wave may edge out the Free in that respect, but the P2 fits me perfectly well for my needs.
Post by: ZapWizard on April 28, 2019, 06:09:41 AM
This is NOT a photo! :multi:
I may have gone a bit overboard on how much detail I ended up putting into my 3D model of the Free P4. I did it as sort of skill building exercise.
I photographed each component, and along with calipers modeled each one from scratch in Solid Edge. The render was done in Keyshot.
I will use the model to plan a few forthcoming mod ideas, as well as a form fit holster design.
Click for the 4K wallpaper size (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46802470125_50550a8278_o.jpg)
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 28, 2019, 06:44:40 AM
It really does the quality of the P2/P4 justice.
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 28, 2019, 07:26:41 AM
Post by: JustinCase on April 28, 2019, 07:39:09 AM
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9841/TxEkKO.jpg)
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 28, 2019, 08:01:44 AM
Good advice, Justin!
ADVISORY: THE PLIERS MOUNTS ARE LOCATED NEAR THE ELASTOMER CUSHIONS. USE CAUTION WHILE HEATING.
They are heat resistant(as Aimless pointed out), but too much heat will damage them.
I use a soldering iron, but not everyone has one of those. Butane lighters can be had for a few bucks or less. :)
Post by: Raoul Octav on April 28, 2019, 12:12:25 PM
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 28, 2019, 01:00:34 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46802470125_4b8e4b9a4e_b.jpg) (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46802470125_50550a8278_o.jpg)
This is NOT a photo! :multi:
Are you a wizard? :think:
Post by: Poncho65 on April 28, 2019, 04:02:46 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 28, 2019, 07:16:36 PM
The P2/P4 are of the highest possible fit & finish I've seen on an MT.
The OHO on all tools is very nice, and the no-fingernail system works as advertised.
The pliers system is robust and well thought about. While the pliers opening isn't as large as the Wave's, it is still wider than their Swiss competitor's pliers. The cutter blades, which have a good track record, seem well incorporated and function well.
They are extremely satisfying to operate.
The price, at least in the US, is reasonable for the level of QC I see on the P2 and P4 I received.
For the features and effort that is involved with the P2/P4, the tools are well-packages and have a nice profile. The P2 pocket clip, which will be available for sale at some point, works equally as well with the P4. Neither tool is excessively heavy, if your a full-size MT EDC guy.
The drivers are better than anticipated, with the phillips well-formed and flat-drivers nicely ground for extra biting ability.
The sheath, moving on from jokes and not being horizontal carry, is well made and a good design for EDC in my opinion. The grey color fits the tool design nicely.
Some criticisms:
On the P4, the saw is somewhat tedious to extract with the thumb, because of the strong tool locks. The SE blade is somewhat difficult to extract, compared to the PE. Hopefully some break-in will help with that. I can still open them with my thumb, but it isn't as easy as opening the PE blade.
When extracting the awl, a little caution is needed, as opening it requires you to push the side with the edge on it. People with really soft skin should be careful not to slide the thumb on it when pushing open.
When the handles slam together in the pliers-open position, via cutting hard wire or snapping the handles together too fast, the drivers can pop out and say peekaboo. It only happened to me a few times, and it seems to have stopped happening with the pivots loosening up. Now, if they say peekaboo, they are pulled back in by the magnets right away. Note: the long blades cannot pop out, because the pliers engagement locks then in place.
The magnets, while a cool idea and super fun, will attract metal particles. The only way to deal with that is to periodically make a little roll of packing tape and dab the metal particles off of the magnet housing.
The pocket clip and lanyard attachment should have been included with both versions from the factory, since both the P2 and P4 work well with either attachment.
In short, if you're on the fence about buying one, then I recommend only buying one if you want a tool to play with and get moderate use out of. The Wave and Charge are still better EDC tools overall in a heavy-duty work environment. The P series would serve you well, but it wasn't designed or produces to replace the Wave/Charge. The marketing tactics were unfortunate and set the P series up for a lot of conjectured criticism. I hope Leatherman will not talk crap about their current lineup while promoting a new model in the future. The Free P series isn't for diehard Wave/Charge lovers, and Leatherman didn't respect that fact during promotion.
For moderate users who appreciate a sweet and useful 'sidepiece', the P2/P4 is a good option. Lots of unique features and awesome precision quality construction. IMO, the P4 makes the Vic Spirit look and feel a little cheaper than it used to. As far as fit & finish goes, and barring whatever design concerns you may have, the P2/P4 are outstanding in that regards.
I know I don't need to recommend the P2/P4 to collectors, but it is worth having. If only just for the fact it is unique and represents the different direction that so many people whined about LM not taking. They did a great job on the Free P overall, but there are some quirks like most MTs have. The price is reasonable, as far as US pricing goes(foreign market markup is ridiculous though), considering it is completely made in-house in the US. If you think it is overpriced, then there are many cool NEW unique design options from Ganzo and Roxon these days, for a third the cost. You just don't get the ultra modern design/style, all OHO no-fingernail function, LM brand, US build, or excellent warranty. But, hey, you saved a hundred bucks right?
Gerber and SOG still make pliers based MTs for a lot less money as well. They're just not going to be anything all that different to what you may already have.
Love your Vic Spirit and aren't much of a fan of LM? Maybe save the money for some more SwissTools/SAKs? That is what I'd do in that position. If I weren't big-time into MTs, I'd probably read this thread and move on to something else. I do remember the days when I was happy with a Vic Explorer and Gerber Pinchy. But, nowadays, I am always looking for special, unique, fidget-factor, and hopefully high-quality tools. The Free P2/P4 fits my current requirements for purchase. :)
Note: Sorry for any typos, run-on sentences, possible contradictory statements . I stayed up all night watching youtube videos and drinking coffee, while surfing MT.o. :rofl:
Edit:
Hoping the future pocket clips for sale will be the same as the one that came on the P2. I went ahead and put the P2's clip on the P4. After the Surge challenge, the P4 is gonna get some hip time to see the extent of the possible steel dust issue at work.
(https://i.imgur.com/RXNrTcH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A5biFv8.jpg)
Post by: Monrogue on April 29, 2019, 01:09:54 AM
I definitely fall into the category of wanting a fidget favor MT as a moderate (probably even less) user, and I really dig my P2.
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 29, 2019, 01:54:53 AM
Well said GLBM :salute:
I definitely fall into the category of wanting a fidget favor MT as a moderate (probably even less) user, and I really dig my P2.
Thank you, Monrogue! :cheers:
Post by: roamingcat on April 29, 2019, 03:47:39 AM
Post by: Etherealicer on April 29, 2019, 09:20:30 AM
I'm not sure...
We've got quite a diverse mix here, really. We're got...
A) Those that want to catch them all
B) The eager newcomers
C) The tinkerers, who aren't happy till they've put their own tweaks on a tool.
D) The heavy tool users
E) The occasional or light tool users
F) The settled ones, who tried all they want to, and are now content with a chosen few
G) The ones that we probably influence the most. The lurkers, who come here not to talk, but just to soak up all the diverse rambling of those who do post.
H) The searcher. I have plenty of multitools that I use but I feel like I still don't have a perfect edc multitol. Still searching.
I) Combination of F & H. They have settled but try to give new tools a chance, just to confirm that what they have is the best :D
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 29, 2019, 09:48:44 AM
Very informative and helpful insight, particular to those who hasn't had the opportunity of owing or using one yet, like me :salute:. Thank you GLBM for taking the time to share this with us. :like:Thank you for the kind words and you're welcome, roamingcat. :)
I'm a bit surprised that there weren't more early buyers of the P series here on MT.o. Hopefully we will see some more input as more members get theirs in.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 30, 2019, 01:12:51 AM
I'd like to go over some of my observations again.
The P2/P4 are of the highest possible fit & finish I've seen on an MT.
The OHO on all tools is very nice, and the no-fingernail system works as advertised.
The pliers system is robust and well thought about. While the pliers opening isn't as large as the Wave's, it is still wider than their Swiss competitor's pliers. The cutter blades, which have a good track record, seem well incorporated and function well.
They are extremely satisfying to operate.
The price, at least in the US, is reasonable for the level of QC I see on the P2 and P4 I received.
For the features and effort that is involved with the P2/P4, the tools are well-packages and have a nice profile. The P2 pocket clip, which will be available for sale at some point, works equally as well with the P4. Neither tool is excessively heavy, if your a full-size MT EDC guy.
The drivers are better than anticipated, with the phillips well-formed and flat-drivers nicely ground for extra biting ability.
The sheath, moving on from jokes and not being horizontal carry, is well made and a good design for EDC in my opinion. The grey color fits the tool design nicely.
Some criticisms:
On the P4, the saw is somewhat tedious to extract with the thumb, because of the strong tool locks. The SE blade is somewhat difficult to extract, compared to the PE. Hopefully some break-in will help with that. I can still open them with my thumb, but it isn't as easy as opening the PE blade.
When extracting the awl, a little caution is needed, as opening it requires you to push the side with the edge on it. People with really soft skin should be careful not to slide the thumb on it when pushing open.
When the handles slam together in the pliers-open position, via cutting hard wire or snapping the handles together too fast, the drivers can pop out and say peekaboo. It only happened to me a few times, and it seems to have stopped happening with the pivots loosening up. Now, if they say peekaboo, they are pulled back in by the magnets right away. Note: the long blades cannot pop out, because the pliers engagement locks then in place.
The magnets, while a cool idea and super fun, will attract metal particles. The only way to deal with that is to periodically make a little roll of packing tape and dab the metal particles off of the magnet housing.
The pocket clip and lanyard attachment should have been included with both versions from the factory, since both the P2 and P4 work well with either attachment.
In short, if you're on the fence about buying one, then I recommend only buying one if you want a tool to play with and get moderate use out of. The Wave and Charge are still better EDC tools overall in a heavy-duty work environment. The P series would serve you well, but it wasn't designed or produces to replace the Wave/Charge. The marketing tactics were unfortunate and set the P series up for a lot of conjectured criticism. I hope Leatherman will not talk crap about their current lineup while promoting a new model in the future. The Free P series isn't for diehard Wave/Charge lovers, and Leatherman didn't respect that fact during promotion.
For moderate users who appreciate a sweet and useful 'sidepiece', the P2/P4 is a good option. Lots of unique features and awesome precision quality construction. IMO, the P4 makes the Vic Spirit look and feel a little cheaper than it used to. As far as fit & finish goes, and barring whatever design concerns you may have, the P2/P4 are outstanding in that regards.
I know I don't need to recommend the P2/P4 to collectors, but it is worth having. If only just for the fact it is unique and represents the different direction that so many people whined about LM not taking. They did a great job on the Free P overall, but there are some quirks like most MTs have. The price is reasonable, as far as US pricing goes(foreign market markup is ridiculous though), considering it is completely made in-house in the US. If you think it is overpriced, then there are many cool NEW unique design options from Ganzo and Roxon these days, for a third the cost. You just don't get the ultra modern design/style, all OHO no-fingernail function, LM brand, US build, or excellent warranty. But, hey, you saved a hundred bucks right?
Gerber and SOG still make pliers based MTs for a lot less money as well. They're just not going to be anything all that different to what you may already have.
Love your Vic Spirit and aren't much of a fan of LM? Maybe save the money for some more SwissTools/SAKs? That is what I'd do in that position. If I weren't big-time into MTs, I'd probably read this thread and move on to something else. I do remember the days when I was happy with a Vic Explorer and Gerber Pinchy. But, nowadays, I am always looking for special, unique, fidget-factor, and hopefully high-quality tools. The Free P2/P4 fits my current requirements for purchase. :)
Note: Sorry for any typos, run-on sentences, possible contradictory statements . I stayed up all night watching youtube videos and drinking coffee, while surfing MT.o. :rofl:
Edit:
Hoping the future pocket clips for sale will be the same as the one that came on the P2. I went ahead and put the P2's clip on the P4. After the Surge challenge, the P4 is gonna get some hip time to see the extent of the possible steel dust issue at work.
(https://i.imgur.com/RXNrTcH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A5biFv8.jpg)
I've noticed that you have a bit of a habit of refering to the Swisstool/Spirit in a negative way, that it's an old design, no replaceable cutters, no OHO knives and of course, the scissors on the Spirit ... But then again, your nickname is gerleatherberman, it isn't gervicleatherberinoxman (and that's probably a good thing, since that would be a pain in the ... to type ;)).
Anyway, all of the above are personal opinions/preferences and it's not on me to convince you otherwise, but saying that the Spirit looks and feels a little cheaper than it used to. As far as fit & finish goes, since the P4 came out ...? If somebody said this to me before I bought my P4, I would've been extremly disappointed when I held it in my hands for the first time. Even now, I was a bit dissapionted at first, since it just doesn't feel quite as sturdy as I expected, it actually felt a bit ... cheap.
Fit and finish is extremely good ... for a Leatherman.
I mean, my Swisstools all score extremely good on fit and finish, but I wouldn't even mention this if I did a review on them since I'm so used to them being perfect. Leatherman tools on the other hand ... ::). Let's just say that the older ones all had great fit and finish, but at one point Leatherman started to drop the ball more often than not ... That's also why I was so pleasantly surprised by the fit and finish on the "+" models, which I've stated here on numerous occasions (and now once more). All of my "+" models (2 stainless Waves, one BO Wave and 2 BO Charges) came absolutely perfect, and I can say the same for my P4. But ...this should be normal again for every Leatherman, just as it is for every Victorinox tool/SAK. The Leatherman brand owes it to itself to bring back that level of quality, it's what we should expect from them, just as in the old days.
And having played around with the P4 for a couple of days now, I'm more and more under the impression that the Leatherman design team had a Swisstool present during one of their brain-storm meatings. I mean, on some points the resemblance is quite stunning.
For example, the can opener. Here's a pic from the P4, the Spirit and the Wave. Which ones look more alike ?
(https://i.imgur.com/F4RgM9X.jpg)
Same can be said about the pry bar tool, if that isn't a lookalike from what you find on the Swisstool and the Spirit I don't know what is. And I guess the flathead on the awl is only there because they thought it would be a bit too much to put in on the can opener (which would've been better, I mean, look at it ... how easy it would be to fit a small flat head on top of that without causing an issue while using the can opener).
And while the opening and closing of the pliers is fun, and it does sound a bit like the closing on the Swisstool/Spirit pliers, this is not achieved by mechanics as it is on the Swisstools, no, that's what the magnets are for. When you put a rally exhaust on a Dacia Sandero, it will sound (more) like a rally car, but still, it won't be a real rally car...
The magnets are a solution for the handle problem on modern Leatherman tools. On the old tools the handles closed with a nice click, and stayed closed (at least when they were new). But on the last models of the previous model Wave for example, one of the handles would often "fall open" a bit when the tool was closed (I own a stainless and a BO one, and both have the same problem, tightening the screws on the plierhead fixed this, but then the outside tools would become hard to open). Strangely enough, the older Waves (of the same, previous Wave version) don't have this problem, both of my 25th Anniversary Waves are just fine.
And you can see that they were having trouble with this, hence the small locking lever on the MUT, or that sliding lock thingy on the Signal. If I don't slide that thing to the closed position, one of the handles will fall open on both my Signals, and even though these "locks" work just fine, it does require an action from the user (making the "problem" stand out a bit), in come the magnets, no more interaction from the user required, problem solved ...
Hope you guys can follow what I'm saying, it's late at night here, I've had an average of 4 hours sleep for the last 5 days (and same for the night to come), and it's hard to explain what you mean in a language that's not your own ...
I do want to point out that I DO NOT think the P4 is a bad tool, I really like it, it's fun to play with, it did everything what I wanted it to do up until now, and fit and finish is excellent. But you won't hear me say that it makes the Spirit look any cheaper than it used to, that's pushing it a bit too far in my opinion. But if others think it does, I respect that. Just wanted to write down how I feel about that.
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 30, 2019, 01:50:56 AM
You point out my problems with the Spirit. But, there is a reason. The Spirit seems to be the only tool people are comparing the Free P to. Wouldn't make sense to compare it to the SOG PowerLock or Gerber Center-Drive.
A lot lf members have a noticeable bias towards Victorinox. I simply don't find misaligned handles, using only fingernails polished implements, slippery handles, and tiny cutters all that appealing. My opinion of course.
I own 4 SwissTools, so it is obvious I like them. I just don't like to talk something up that has been talked up to the point of being a beaten dead horse. Note that my list of issues with the P4 is longer than my pros. I think yoy you have an obvious bias towards Victorinox, but have I ever pointed that out before now? No. I respect some people can't get over the idea of "Swiss precision". Difference of opinion is great, but most of us have bias.
Edit:
Oh, look at this.
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,80374.msg1921127.html#msg1921127
Post by: AimlessWanderer on April 30, 2019, 02:01:01 AM
Post by: algernonramone on April 30, 2019, 03:07:46 AM
Post by: gustophersmob on April 30, 2019, 03:19:20 AM
Post by: ZapWizard on April 30, 2019, 03:52:15 AM
This might be a dumb question, but does anyone know if an oil-based lubricant (like 3-in-1 oil or WD40) will damage the elastomer spring mechanism on these?
When I took it apart, I found everything to be lubricated with a clear goop, no oil. I would expect that a silicone or teflon lubricant might work better.
I can't tell what material the elastomer is exactly. It is a very black rubber with a durometer similar to Bunta-N o-rings.
Would anyone mind measuring the width of the P2 and P4?
I don't have a P2. The P4 is 1.20" (30.6mm) not including the blade. The blade adds another 0.114" (3mm) to one side.
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 30, 2019, 07:00:14 AM
Requirements:
Not another Leatherman - check.
Not another Victorinox - check.
All outboard tools - check.
All locking tools - check.
Similar weight class - check.
Currently in production - check.
(https://i.imgur.com/lXhaQpf.jpg)
Lineup:
Leatherman P4(of course) - 8.8oz
SOG PowerAccess Deluxe - 8.74oz
Gerber Truss - 8.35oz
Bear & Sons 156L - 9.1oz
(https://i.imgur.com/K1yB51u.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/30neg7y.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KgjoMHP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ncA9Iz2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9tAE89N.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JXQgPqJ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/svO48dX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/taO1owa.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xYcEvgZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0ZvjcEm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FKMGIOm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yGPdtAx.jpg)
Post by: Blackbeard on April 30, 2019, 07:39:39 AM
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 30, 2019, 10:11:21 AM
Difference of opinion is good. :like:
You point out my problems with the Spirit. But, there is a reason. The Spirit seems to be the only tool people are comparing the Free P to. Wouldn't make sense to compare it to the SOG PowerLock or Gerber Center-Drive.
A lot lf members have a noticeable bias towards Victorinox. I simply don't find misaligned handles, using only fingernails polished implements, slippery handles, and tiny cutters all that appealing. My opinion of course.
I own 4 SwissTools, so it is obvious I like them. I just don't like to talk something up that has been talked up to the point of being a beaten dead horse. Note that my list of issues with the P4 is longer than my pros. I think yoy you have an obvious bias towards Victorinox, but have I ever pointed that out before now? No. I respect some people can't get over the idea of "Swiss precision". Difference of opinion is great, but most of us have bias.
Edit:
Oh, look at this.
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,80374.msg1921127.html#msg1921127
If I had a bias towards Victorinox I wouldn't say that, if I had to pick one tool, it would be the Swisstool or the Surge, than I wouldn't mention the Surge. Nor would I own more Waves alone than Swisstools and Spirit's together...
I can honestly say that the value of my Leatherman collection is more than double the value of my Victorinox collection.
But that's all besides the point. I'm happy you like your P2 and P4 as much as you do. I like my P4 as well, I guess that's the most important thing to remember, all the rest is, like you say, all personal preference. It's hard to compare tools while we might have very different jobs to use them for, or different laws in the countries/continents we live in.
Guess we're all a bit spoiled as well, with the wide variety of tools we get to choose from. So there must be something good for every one of us, right ;).
It wasn't my intention to offend you, just to be clear, sometimes it's hard to get certain nuances right in a language that's not your own. I hope there are no hard feelings.
Greetings,
Eric
Post by: SirVicaLot on April 30, 2019, 04:36:15 PM
I am the same way every time i receive something new in the mail. There will always be different opinions and that is a good thing. That way we can argue about our favorite tools and spend time in this forum :D
I hope i did not overstep my boundaries trying to explain you GLBM. If i did, i am sorry :hatsoff:
Post by: Wspeed on April 30, 2019, 04:41:04 PM
Post by: Aloha on April 30, 2019, 05:07:09 PM
I continue to watch and read about them and for myself not changed much from my initial thoughts. I am glad those who have them are happy. I can see how comparisons will be made to other tools, fair enough. The comparisons I was most interested in was against the Wave as that was WHO LM seemed to go after.
Whether they can compete with the Spirit or Swisstool for me is neutral. If they can great if they cannot great.
LM irked a lot of us or let me be clear, IRKED ME. The droning on about this and that was not welcomed to me. I was and am only interested in how well these tool stack up against their own line of tools.
I am hopeful they ( LM ) is again making a quality MT that many of us appreciate. Seems so. I await some usage of these tools to see how well this pans out.
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 30, 2019, 05:27:48 PM
If I had a bias towards Victorinox I wouldn't say that, if I had to pick one tool, it would be the Swisstool or the Surge, than I wouldn't mention the Surge. Nor would I own more Waves alone than Swisstools and Spirit's together...
I can honestly say that the value of my Leatherman collection is more than double the value of my Victorinox collection.
But that's all besides the point. I'm happy you like your P2 and P4 as much as you do. I like my P4 as well, I guess that's the most important thing to remember, all the rest is, like you say, all personal preference. It's hard to compare tools while we might have very different jobs to use them for, or different laws in the countries/continents we live in.
Guess we're all a bit spoiled as well, with the wide variety of tools we get to choose from. So there must be something good for every one of us, right ;).
It wasn't my intention to offend you, just to be clear, sometimes it's hard to get certain nuances right in a language that's not your own. I hope there are no hard feelings.
Greetings,
Eric
Oh my, please know I meant absolutely no disrespect, Eric. There are definitely no hard feelings. We're collectors, and as such, our feelings towards tools and brands are going to differ. I wish now I had done more to compare the P4 to other tools. You are right in thinking part of my reasoning about thinking the P4 is so good, is that I was blown away that Leatherman was able to achieve such a high standard of production. I'll do my best to be more objective from this point onwards, and I do apologize for being so crass about it. You're a very kind person and I regret my aggressive tone towards you. Thank you for the kind reply and understanding about it. :cheers:
We're definitely spoiled with MTs. But, ain't it nice to have so many choices? :woohoo:
:iagree: and i don‘t think he took it the wrong way. He is very enthusiastic of his new toy and that is great!No overstepping at all and thank you for the kind words, SirVic! :cheers:
I am the same way every time i receive something new in the mail. There will always be different opinions and that is a good thing. That way we can argue about our favorite tools and spend time in this forum :D
I hope i did not overstep my boundaries trying to explain you GLBM. If i did, i am sorry :hatsoff:
You're absolutely correct. I get very enthusiastic about new toys. There is also a possibility I overlook shortcomings with some tools, just because I am impressed with other aspects of it. As mentioned above, I am sure a portion of my opinion towards the P series is, because I never expected LM to produce something that seems like it may have been very difficult to insure such a high level of QC on. Thank you for the kind reply, SirVic! :cheers:
Great comparison pics GLBM :cheers: :like:Thank you, W! :cheers:
So where are we with these tools? Has anyone who actually has them had a change of initial thoughts/opinions now they have them in hand?I must fervently agree. As mentioned above, it is very unfortunate that Leatherman chose to crap on the Wave to promote the P series. Lets hope LM takes steps to rectify this behavior in the future. Even Gerber doesn't trash their own products when aggressively promoting theirs. :facepalm:
I continue to watch and read about them and for myself not changed much from my initial thoughts. I am glad those who have them are happy. I can see how comparisons will be made to other tools, fair enough. The comparisons I was most interested in was against the Wave as that was WHO LM seemed to go after.
Whether they can compete with the Spirit or Swisstool for me is neutral. If they can great if they cannot great.
LM irked a lot of us or let me be clear, IRKED ME. The droning on about this and that was not welcomed to me. I was and am only interested in how well these tool stack up against their own line of tools.
I am hopeful they ( LM ) is again making a quality MT that many of us appreciate. Seems so. I await some usage of these tools to see how well this pans out.
The Surge challenge will be over soon and the P4 will be put to good use at my work.
Will definitely be more persistent in being more objective about the usage, as I have some preconceived worries about the magnets in my dirty, steel dusty, work environment. :ahhh
Post by: Aloha on April 30, 2019, 05:42:33 PM
I am happy that LM for all our sake has decided to show us that they can produce a quality tool regardless if it is for everyone. Heck we all know there is no perfect tool unless its a modded one :whistle:
I love a lively discussion even to the extent of one side getting ruffled, so long as both sides respect each other. I believe this continues to be very true within these pages of discussion.
I cannot wait for you GLBM to test the living smurf out of these tools. It serves all of us, LM included. Breaking it or damaging it however wont tell the whole story. We've seen tools break. I just want to see the limits to which the tool can be pushed. Yeah a little sadistic ::)
Post by: stugumby on April 30, 2019, 05:57:40 PM
Post by: ZapWizard on April 30, 2019, 05:59:16 PM
Will the removable bit driver fit on the P series Phillips shank?
I have been told by the Leatherman product rep on Reddit that no, it won't fit. I asked him to add it to their product wishlist.
Post by: SirVicaLot on April 30, 2019, 06:38:26 PM
Will the removable bit driver fit on the P series Phillips shank?Of course not, that way they can sell a new one :D Not that LM is alone in that. Other companies (not only MT related) do the same smurf.
I had not heard before that LM is attacking their own MT to promote sale of the P series. Someone has a link?
Not sure what the reasoning behind that is. Doesn’t make sense in my mind to thumb your own product. Especially sine it is still on the market! If i did not know the wave my thinking would be: “Ok, so you are telling me the Wave sucks, but you want me to buy your new product that costs almost 50% more, in the hopes that you got it right this time?”
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 30, 2019, 07:22:23 PM
Of course not, that way they can sell a new one :D Not that LM is alone in that. Other companies (not only MT related) do the same smurf.I don't know if attacking is as far as they went. They more so said that the P series is the best MT out there, and the implication is that the Wave isn't as good.
I had not heard before that LM is attacking their own MT to promote sale of the P series. Someone has a link?
Not sure what the reasoning behind that is. Doesn’t make sense in my mind to thumb your own product. Especially sine it is still on the market! If i did not know the wave my thinking would be: “Ok, so you are telling me the Wave sucks, but you want me to buy your new product that costs almost 50% more, in the hopes that you got it right this time?”
Most of the agitation over the promotion came in the form of the huge-biceps tatto-guy saying "you see someone with the grey sheath, you know he has the best multitool out there" and variations of the statement.
And he didn't say it once, twice, or three times. He said it almost every time he was being recorded.
My personal opinion is that the Wave is a superior EDC tool to the P series. And that the P series is superior in fidget-fun flippy-dippy poppy-doppy skipp-pippy action. That leaves the P series in a different subset of MT users(though, because of the toolset the subsets can overlap). Moderate users who want a 'side-piece' to show off and play with, that would still be useful in daily life. Kind of like a butterfly knife, but for MT guys.
Post by: powernoodle on April 30, 2019, 07:27:38 PM
Post by: SirVicaLot on April 30, 2019, 07:44:01 PM
I don't know if attacking is as far as they went. They more so said that the P series is the best MT out there, and the implication is that the Wave isn't as good.
Most of the agitation over the promotion came in the form of the huge-biceps tatto-guy saying "you see someone with the grey sheath, you know he has the best multitool out there" and variations of the statement.
And he didn't say it once, twice, or three times. He said it almost every time he was being recorded.
My personal opinion is that the Wave is a superior EDC tool to the P series. And that the P series is superior in fidget-fun flippy-dippy poppy-doppy skipp-pippy action. That leaves the P series in a different subset of MT users(though, because of the toolset the subsets can overlap). Moderate users who want a 'side-piece' to show off and play with, that would still be useful in daily life. Kind of like a butterfly knife, but for MT guys.
Ok, thanks for clarification :tu:
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 30, 2019, 07:46:02 PM
Ok, thanks for clarification :tu::cheers:
Post by: Wspeed on April 30, 2019, 07:55:16 PM
Timmy L must have slipped some Rohypnol in my drink, because when I woke up this morning I discoverer that I had ordered a P4 from the Leatherman website.:rofl: good one pn :like: :tu:
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on April 30, 2019, 07:59:59 PM
Timmy L must have slipped some Rohypnol in my drink, because when I woke up this morning I discoverer that I had ordered a P4 from the Leatherman website.
Oh well, could've been worse ...
Show content
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyzYwvAdtSE
;)
Post by: RF52 on April 30, 2019, 08:03:19 PM
Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk
Post by: gerleatherberman on April 30, 2019, 08:17:58 PM
Oh well, could've been worse ...That was kinda how I woke up when I realized I had ordered both the P2 and P4 at around 4am the morning they were released and didn't remember doing it. I had not planned on getting both at the same time. Damn sleep-aid induced decisions. :facepalm:Show contenthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyzYwvAdtSE
;)
Post by: Aloha on April 30, 2019, 08:24:53 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on May 01, 2019, 12:22:49 PM
:rofl: can't wait to hear what you think PN :salute:
:iagree: :rofl: :like:
Post by: aussieman on May 02, 2019, 10:41:57 AM
Post by: gadgetman7 on May 02, 2019, 07:03:20 PM
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Post by: Aloha on May 02, 2019, 07:14:21 PM
Post by: Wspeed on May 02, 2019, 07:34:58 PM
Post by: gadgetman7 on May 02, 2019, 07:50:06 PM
Translation, they know and hoped not a lot of owners would complain :dunno:. They had to have known :think:.
They obviously knew and it should have been disclosed.
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Post by: AimlessWanderer on May 02, 2019, 07:54:03 PM
They can't say it's not meant to happen, or they'll be inundated with warranty claims, or people wanting their money back. They also can't fix it, or the tools will become difficult to deploy. The only thing that will change anything, is if people start suing for injuries occurring as a result, and then it's recall time.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 02, 2019, 09:22:23 PM
The cutting blades don't pop out and couldn't if they wanted.
Tried to see if I could hurt myself doing that in several different ways, but haven't been able to. :dunno:
Not saying it is ok that the drivers play peekaboo, just saying it probably isn't a serious problem. Most likely why they put a flat driver tip on the awl, since that would have been the only poking culprit. The opener/flat edge, and awl/driver edge face inwards to the handles, so the likelyhood of cutting oneself that way would be virtually impossible, unless someone intentionally set it up.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on May 02, 2019, 10:03:03 PM
Frankly I'd be less critical of the tool if they hadn't trashed every other tool in their marketing. Bad idea, especially when it's not true..."strongest pliers we ever made" ummm surge and ST300 say hi.
Post by: McStitchy on May 02, 2019, 10:05:14 PM
Passion makes great members. Perceptions, well..... we all have them and so I like to remember that we all come here to discuss these wonderful tools called Multitools. Moving forward and continuing forward I am happy these tools are in the hands of you passionate members.
I am happy that LM for all our sake has decided to show us that they can produce a quality tool regardless if it is for everyone. Heck we all know there is no perfect tool unless its a modded one :whistle:
I love a lively discussion even to the extent of one side getting ruffled, so long as both sides respect each other. I believe this continues to be very true within these pages of discussion.
I cannot wait for you GLBM to test the living smurf out of these tools. It serves all of us, LM included. Breaking it or damaging it however wont tell the whole story. We've seen tools break. I just want to see the limits to which the tool can be pushed. Yeah a little sadistic ::)
Well said... Aloha :tu:
Post by: ReamerPunch on May 02, 2019, 10:07:13 PM
So...out of curiosity I emailed Leatherman about the tools popping out when you cut hard wire or snap the pliers open too hard. They said, “It’s a normal function of the tool.”
Accidental deployment of implements while using something else is a normal function? :think:
I would have asked for details. :pok:
Post by: ReamerPunch on May 02, 2019, 10:09:14 PM
Considering the time spent on this tool, I can think a number of solutions off the top of my head that might fix this.
Stronger magnets would be an easy one. The implements seem rather easy to deploy as it is now, I do not think they'd be difficult to deploy if the magnets were a little stronger.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on May 02, 2019, 10:10:16 PM
If someone gets injured from that, they need their license to use tools revoked. IMO
The cutting blades don't pop out and couldn't if they wanted.
Tried to see if I could hurt myself doing that in several different ways, but haven't been able to. :dunno:
Not saying it is ok that the drivers play peekaboo, just saying it probably isn't a serious problem. Most likely why they put a flat driver tip on the awl, since that would have been the only poking culprit. The opener/flat edge, and awl/driver edge face inwards to the handles, so the likelyhood of cutting oneself that way would be virtually impossible, unless someone intentionally set it up.
We live in an age where cups of coffee have to warn the person who ordered it that the contents may be hot, and bags of peanuts say "Warning: Contains nuts". Even among tool enthusiasts, there are people who consider non-locking blades to be unsafe. No matter how foolproof you make something, there's always a higher calibre of idiot waiting just around the corner, but with this, they didn't even try. Making tools that accidentally deploy this easily, is not acceptable for a tool maker today, no matter how you try and window dress it.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on May 02, 2019, 10:50:14 PM
We live in an age where cups of coffee have to warn the person who ordered it that the contents may be hot, and bags of peanuts say "Warning: Contains nuts". Even among tool enthusiasts, there are people who consider non-locking blades to be unsafe. No matter how foolproof you make something, there's always a higher calibre of idiot waiting just around the corner, but with this, they didn't even try. Making tools that accidentally deploy this easily, is not acceptable for a tool maker today, no matter how you try and window dress it.
Interestingly the coffee thing was quite serious. I found out the real story behind it recently and feel bad for what I thought of the woman before...who was a passenger....elderly....and nearly died....from 3rd degree burns to thighs and lady parts... She spend nearly a month in the hospital I believe. She wasn't the only one, and the coffee at nearly all the McDonald's was approaching 190 degrees F.
As far as the free goes..yeah, the magnets were the easiest possible solution, and likely wouldn't have needed to be that much stronger. Also contact area of the tools to the magnet... The more steel there is in contact...the stronger the bond could be fixed by removing some steel at bottoms of the tool to make more surface area contact.
Cheers
Post by: ZapWizard on May 02, 2019, 11:22:35 PM
I don't know if the magnets inside are the highest strength or not, but one easy mod would be to replace them with maximum strength N52 class magnets (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B841-N52).
Post by: Happy Gilmore on May 02, 2019, 11:25:43 PM
The flat on each tool is the same size as the magnet. I don't think removing any metal would help. The gap between the tool and the magnet is tiny. Just enough to ensure the magnet doesn't get slammed into the tool upon closing.
I don't know if the magnets inside are the highest strength or not, but one easy mod would be to replace them with maximum strength N52 class magnets (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B841-N52).
That could cause other potential issues. I'd try to add a small amount of metalic putty to the bottom of the tools to allow more contact but have some give from the putty. Also not voiding warranty
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 02, 2019, 11:27:45 PM
Been using the P4 today. So far so good. :)
(http://imgur.com/wZQJxVP.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/h51NpPQ.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/8mIRSZO.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/MXMjcvU.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/ZeL9Nqc.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/4bU5iwH.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/OHPSvj0.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/htDgOqp.jpg)
Post by: Wspeed on May 02, 2019, 11:46:25 PM
What happened on your last pic wouldn’t it cut :think:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 02, 2019, 11:58:37 PM
Great uses GLBM :like: :tu:Thanks, W! :cheers:
What happened on your last pic wouldn’t it cut :think:
Cutters work great. The end I cut off is facing me. :ahhh
The pliers head geometry works well for the crimping section. Those yellow butt connectors are a bear to squeeze. The Surge does a bit better job with the crimping section, but it is nice the Ps have it.
The OHO tool selection has already proven useful. :multi:
Post by: RF52 on May 03, 2019, 01:40:16 AM
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Post by: gerleatherberman on May 03, 2019, 03:10:40 AM
Nice to see some action pics of the Free P :like:Thanks, RF! :cheers:
Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk
More to come. :)
Post by: gadgetman7 on May 03, 2019, 03:15:51 AM
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Post by: RF52 on May 03, 2019, 03:15:54 AM
Thanks, RF! :cheers:Cant wait! :cheers:
More to come. :)
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Post by: gerleatherberman on May 03, 2019, 03:53:24 AM
My solution for the testing phase.
Small bits fit snug in the back of the jaws. Larger bits don't fit snug, but could be used in a pinch.
Smaller bit fit.
(http://imgur.com/HBGN0qA.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/qfiwTKT.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/npZFtCZ.jpg)
Larger bit fit. Not good, but would work in a pinch.
(http://imgur.com/Qix8niv.jpg)
Post by: Blackbeard on May 03, 2019, 10:50:36 AM
Post by: gadgetman7 on May 03, 2019, 01:10:08 PM
Gadgetman7,
My solution for the testing phase.
Small bits fit snug in the back of the jaws. Larger bits don't fit snug, but could be used in a pinch.
Smaller bit fit.
(http://imgur.com/HBGN0qA.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/qfiwTKT.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/npZFtCZ.jpg)
Larger bit fit. Not good, but would work in a pinch.
(http://imgur.com/Qix8niv.jpg)
Interesting idea but looks a little to fiddley to have to tighten 15 or 20 screws.
This tool has such potential. I hope they just fix the issue with the tools popping out and add the bit driver and a decent file.
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Post by: gerleatherberman on May 03, 2019, 02:12:48 PM
I'd like to see the SE blade replaced with a longer file, but that said, that little file can eat up some material. Have you tried that thing yet? It is similarly as aggressive as the Rebar file, which is the most aggressive file on an MT right now, due to the width and aggressiveness. The Rebar file would be the one I want in the P4. :)
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 03, 2019, 02:36:57 PM
Okay, I haven't used it for any hard-wire cutting or other "heavy duty" work, so must of the use was from the screwdrivers and the prybar. The screwdrivers (and especially the Phillips) work better than I expected, I still prefer the Phillips on the ST300 and Rebar (best Phillips screwdriver on a multitool ever, in my opinion), but it did what it had to do. Used the prybar to open some cans of wood varnish that had been standing in the garage for quite some time and it got the job done, and was fun to use (for some reason I like a prybar on a multitool, like the one on the P4, or the Spirit, oversized and very sturdy).
About the tools popping out, well, I can't say anything about them popping out during the cutting of hardwire, since I haven't done that (yet), but they do occasionally pop out when the pliers locks open. But I do have to lock the pliers harder/faster than I would normally do to "make" it happen. And weirdly enough, it happens more on the side of the Phillips/prybar than on the other. When I hold the side of the awl in my hand while flipping open the pliers and locking them in one fast motion the Phillips/prybar pop out (a bit) like 50% of the time. But when I hold the side of the Phillips/prybar in my hand while doing the same thing, the awl and the other (thinner) tools only pop out like 10% of the time (maybe even less).
Don't know if the torx screws on this side have been tightened a bit more (I don't notice them being tougher to open, so I doubt that this is the reason), or that these tools stick better to the magnets since they are thinner, and therefore have less weight "pulling" them out while swinging and clicking the pliers open ...
Anyways, can't say that it has bothered me much, I mean, I've seen a lot worse on other tools ... (the drivers on the Juice KF4 poking my finger right above my fingernail for the 4th time in 10 minutes spring to mind :poh:).
I'm still not very handy at using the locking mechanism, I mean, I've been using the Wave (or Charge) platform for many years now and the locking on those tools (inside and outside tools) just feels way more natural than the locks on the P4, but in all honesty, I'm comparing years of usage against days of usage, so that might not be completely fair towards the P4 ... ::)
Biggest let down so far has been the tiny file, when you're used to the file on the Wave/Charge, this one is just too small. But, I knew this when I bought it, so technically this isn't really a let down ...
Post by: gadgetman7 on May 03, 2019, 02:45:42 PM
Indeed, not ideal, but until there is a slip over adapter, it'll have to do.
I'd like to see the SE blade replaced with a longer file, but that said, that little file can eat up some material. Have you tried that thing yet? It is similarly as aggressive as the Rebar file, which is the most aggressive file on an MT right now, due to the width and aggressiveness. The Rebar file would be the one I want in the P4. :)
I have used it. It’s aggressive but in my experience, the diamond file works better for metal if you need to do some detail work.
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Post by: Sam Lim on May 03, 2019, 05:13:03 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lWoUDKJ.jpg)
Just some initial thoughts. Played around with it. Have not really put it to real use yet.
Pros. -
The QC on this thing I must admit is really really good. I cant find anything wrong with it at all. All the tools locks up perfectly. Surprising light when I first picked it up. A very fresh design indeed. Its a well constructed tool with pretty decent material. Tool set looks pretty functional. They are really thin on one side but the width of the tools should make up for the strength. The scissors are a big improvement over the previous designs. Second only to the mighty Surge. The file is actually a big surprise for me. I never thought I would say this, while it is short, it is very aggressive. Perfect for rounding off metal or ad-hoc filing. Its way way better than the ones on the wingman. The awl while not really pointy, should work as they are pretty sharp.
(https://i.imgur.com/w8AMWkB.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/w6CukR2.jpg)
Cons. -
Hotspots. Many of them at the handle ends when using the pliers. And they do dig into the palm..... I do not feel the alignment stubs but the ends of the handle is pointy, the lock tab is also pointy and the edges are a little sharp. Enough to shave off fingers nails. Also, my pliers came too tight than I like. It also tightens a little more when I give it squeezing pressure. Its along time since I bought a new leatherman so I really hope it will loosen soon. Hope.
(https://i.imgur.com/wpZTrfs.jpg)
The above are really just my observation on the physical construction. I generally do not have much complains.
Handling is a whole different story.
The pivots that attaches the handles to the pliers moves. While it should not post any issues, its gives the feeling like when we are using undersized pivot posts and there are freeplay. It just doesnt feel nice. I do not like the magnetic closure for the handle. Now I need addition action to dig my fingers between the tool to break the handles apart to using the pliers. I can balisong my wave or charge all day long and the handles still stays shut when I need them to. Internal tools will deploy occasionally when snapping the handle together. The oho deployment of the tools with the thumb? Clumsy. I hope its just because its a new extraction method so there is the learning curve for my thumb and fingers. I say extraction and not deployment because they are just a way the tools comes out easier for you to chose what you want, then fumble to lock that and close back the rest. Its not as easy as they do in the advertisement. I almost laughed at myself trying to do it single handed with my left hand ready to come to my rescue. And there are 2 sharp blades in there, the awl and the large sharp flathead. I am struggling not to brush my finger across them when trying to spread them out. Like many, I never had problems with leatherman nailnicks.
(https://i.imgur.com/jTqTvNj.jpg)
Overall experience, its clumsy to use one handed, the way they touted as "Free". I am not convinced it is a improvement over the wave platform yet. Construction no doubt is excellent but they are using regular material, charging $119 for it is pretty off putting. $90 sounds better. Let's not forget that this is how the quality of a leatherman should be like in the first place.
Purely my own personal opinion in this half any hour of playing with it.. It may change for the better or worse on further usage. Right now, I am just very irritated by the tight pliers...... :rant:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 03, 2019, 05:46:57 PM
I'll make a video on techniques I've experimented with opening/closing one-hand, left and right, at some point. Once I figured it out, it was easy as cake. :)
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 03, 2019, 07:56:21 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/O0kQl1A.jpg)
Removed the top cover for a Brunswick phonograph. Doing another veneer job. :twak:
Post by: Wspeed on May 03, 2019, 08:01:58 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 03, 2019, 09:51:21 PM
Nice job GLBM :like: :tu:Thank you, Speedy! :cheers:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 03, 2019, 11:02:53 PM
Right hand.
https://youtu.be/Minl3d5nT3A
Left hand.
https://youtu.be/zCreK61Xjzw
And since a member asked about it using gloves at one point, I'll post a video using work gloves in a little while.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 03, 2019, 11:20:21 PM
https://youtu.be/3geaf2KFVY0
Post by: Wspeed on May 03, 2019, 11:51:24 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on May 04, 2019, 12:40:13 AM
Post by: nwoody on May 04, 2019, 02:12:51 AM
On a more positive note I had contacted Leatherman about when the pocket clip will be available and the response was:
"The FREE Series P4 is compatible with the pocket clip and will be available very soon for purchase on the website. The Clip Kit will be $9.00 plus tax (where applicable) and shipping/handling and will include the clip, a wrench to install the clip and 2 screws to attach the clip."
So I followed up saying I heard that customers who purchased direct from the Leatherman site would be sent a clip for free and this was the response:
"I have placed the order for the clip, you should see it very soon."
So I guess we'll see if it actually shows up!
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 04, 2019, 03:29:11 AM
Welcome to MT.o, by the way! :tu:
Oh, and thank you for the clip info! :salute:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 04, 2019, 03:31:53 AM
Great videos GLBM :like: :tu:Thank you, W! :cheers:
Hope it can help anyone who may be confused with the drastically different deployment system. :)
Thanks for the vids, glbm :cheers: :like:You're welcome, Poncho! :cheers:
I was surprised at how well it worked with gloves on. The OHT is the only other LM that works well with gloves, that I know of anyway. :)
Post by: nwoody on May 04, 2019, 03:44:44 AM
Here's a video to show what I am talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX9DNo_nyUg
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 04, 2019, 04:24:45 AM
Thanks! I should have worded that better. What I mean is that if my thumb isn't centered just right over the Philips and pry drivers, if it's slightly too far left, then the scissors will deploy with the Philips and pry when pressing the tangs. It just seems like they deploy too easily. Or maybe my thumb is fatter than I thought. How much force is required for your scissors to deploy? And can you get the scissors to deploy easily by pressing on the tang instead of the side cut out?Well, there is an issue, since the scissors and blade are under spring retention while the phillips doesn't engage the lock spring until the driver tips are about 3/4" away from the handles.
I'll try and take a video in a minute. :)
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 04, 2019, 04:34:55 AM
Video of the lock spring system.
https://youtu.be/mSe47VA6R9k
Post by: nwoody on May 04, 2019, 04:39:57 AM
Here's a better video showing the lack of spring retention:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmkgcZn19NE
Post by: Monrogue on May 04, 2019, 04:41:10 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 04, 2019, 04:59:01 AM
Wow that for sure helps! Something definitely wrong with mine haha. My scissors literally have no spring tension until the same point that the phillips and pry driver do. Check the video I added to my previous post. I was wondering why no one had complained about this yet.. I thought it might be normal operation!That videos answer it well. Thanks for posting them. The tool needs to go back in my opinion. I would be pretty disappointed if mine had that issue. Perhaps a first run problem that was fixed fairly quickly? But, the example you bought, was part of the bad batch. :think:
Here's a better video showing the lack of spring retention:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmkgcZn19NE
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 04, 2019, 05:00:17 AM
Nice to see some usage and more thoughts :tu: I haven’t used mine much, but that’s normal for me. My scissors do take some effort to deploy though, so no looseness on mine. The bottle opener works well though, better than any other MT opener I’ve used.Nice. :like:
The phillips bottle opener is very beefy and does look like it would work well. :)
Post by: nwoody on May 04, 2019, 05:20:15 AM
That videos answer it well. Thanks for posting them. The tool needs to go back in my opinion. I would be pretty disappointed if mine had that issue. Perhaps a first run problem that was fixed fairly quickly? But, the example you bought, was part of the bad batch. :think:
Yeah it is pretty disappointing, especially since I was excited and ordered around 7 am on launch day and when I kept reading other comments about the great QC and then here mine is haha. The more I look at it, I can now see that the scissors have about the same grind angle for the spring retention as the philips and pry bar do, hence why it opens the same amount until touches the spring. I was totally oblivious that it had such a major issue, the other 3 blades operate normally. So thanks for helping me realize that! I'll send it in for a warranty claim tomorrow morning or Monday and begin the waiting game...again.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 04, 2019, 05:25:44 AM
First confirmed QC issue so far: Tang grind incorrect on scissors and partially engages with adjacent drivers.
Post by: Vadim on May 04, 2019, 08:49:52 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 04, 2019, 02:13:09 PM
Any side handle flex when using screwdriver in L-position? Especially in the pliers fasteners place.I'll check today, but keep in mind, MTs with all-outboard tools(Free, Spirit, Bear Jaws, etc) are far more susceptible to handle torsion. Specifically why they say not to use them that way. :rofl:
But, we'll see how it does. I betcha it won't t-handle like a Wave/Surge(added channelling for outboard blades over inboard tools makes it easy). :multi:
Post by: Aloha on May 04, 2019, 03:50:40 PM
Welcome nwoody :salute:. Thanks for posting your tools issue. I do hope LM gets you sorted VERY fast and checks outgoing tools for any possible scissor issues for all tools heading out.
Post by: Vadim on May 04, 2019, 08:16:59 PM
I'll check today, but keep in mind, MTs with all-outboard tools(Free, Spirit, Bear Jaws, etc) are far more susceptible to handle torsion. Specifically why they say not to use them that way. :rofl:Thanks GLBM!
But, we'll see how it does. I betcha it won't t-handle like a Wave/Surge(added channelling for outboard blades over inboard tools makes it easy). :multi:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 04, 2019, 08:20:00 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 04, 2019, 08:21:23 PM
Note: imgur put photos out of order.
(http://imgur.com/FQgkY0E.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/jpJkF4G.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/c58Zrm3.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/vFzFitJ.jpg)
Post by: powernoodle on May 04, 2019, 08:29:10 PM
Post by: Wspeed on May 04, 2019, 08:46:19 PM
to be a screwdriver as normally they are quite brittle :think:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 04, 2019, 09:43:19 PM
Nice work GLBM do you think the file is strong enoughTrue. I modulate the driver usage on file tips. The machine screws I tightened weren't high torque. The phillips driver wouldn't turn inside the recess. Same problem with the Wave/Surge bits. The file/driver turned in the recess though. :)
to be a screwdriver as normally they are quite brittle :think:
I'm glad that file looks aggressive.Indeed. The only reason I would call ot a file. The cut of the file works well. Kind of like a Rebar file cut or Spirit file cut.
On the plus side, I am not worried about snapping off the file, because of the profile.
Post by: Blackbeard on May 04, 2019, 10:05:58 PM
You're certainly welcome, nwoody. :cheers:
First confirmed QC issue so far: Tang grind incorrect on scissors and partially engages with adjacent drivers.
There's a pretty bad one in the amazon reviews, guy posted a video. Aside from that just see people on youtube complaining about some hot spots, tools popping out and price, but there are a lot more positives then negatives :cheers:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 04, 2019, 11:24:46 PM
There's a pretty bad one in the amazon reviews, guy posted a video. Aside from that just see people on youtube complaining about some hot spots, tools popping out and price, but there are a lot more positives then negatives :cheers:My feelings are good about it, but I did have a lengthy list of complaints. Like any new MT design, it takes some adjustment time. The list has shortened a bit with using the P4 with my EDC. The break-in period resulted in the magnets actually pulling the drivers back in if they play peekaboo, which is good. And learning to use the handle profile has made it quite comfortable to use.
People complaining about the price is fine(US labor and new-tool R&D aren't cheap), but some of those guys have $150 Benchmade and Spyderco folding knives. Do they even realize how much more involved an MT is to produce than a folding knife? :dunno:
Post by: Blackbeard on May 05, 2019, 01:47:59 AM
The guys talking My feelings are good about it, but I did have a lengthy list of complaints. Like any new MT design, it takes some adjustment time. The list has shortened a bit with using the P4 with my EDC. The break-in period resulted in the magnets actually pulling the drivers back in if they play peekaboo, which is good. And learning to use the handle profile has made it quite comfortable to use.
People complaining about the price is fine(US labor and new-tool R&D aren't cheap), but some of those guys have $150 Benchmade and Spyderco folding knives. Do they even realize how much more involved an MT is to produce than a folding knife? :dunno:
Thanks for the thorough review and testing :salute: Glad it's working out for you.
The guy on amazon with the P4 review/vid seems to have a poor copy, it almost looks like it exploded at the plier mount lol, But it's probably a rare case. The crybabies complaining about the high price? They knew it was expensive so why moan & groan...The Steel on those knives you mention are much higher quality than LM's but I always think they are too pricey as well.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 05, 2019, 02:31:39 AM
Thanks for the thorough review and testing :salute: Glad it's working out for you.:cheers:
The guy on amazon with the P4 review/vid seems to have a poor copy, it almost looks like it exploded at the plier mount lol, But it's probably a rare case. The crybabies complaining about the high price? They knew it was expensive so why moan & groan...The Steel on those knives you mention are much higher quality than LM's but I always think they are too pricey as well.
Edit: Removed text. Reading back, it looks like I was rambling. Apologies for the rambling. :facepalm:
Post by: nwoody on May 05, 2019, 02:55:20 AM
Welcome nwoody :salute:. Thanks for posting your tools issue. I do hope LM gets you sorted VERY fast and checks outgoing tools for any possible scissor issues for all tools heading out.
Thanks Aloha! I'm sure they will..well hoping anyways. I mean just look at what came in the mail today...for FREE:).. now that's some customer service. Too bad I need to send back my p4 for warranty claim. It's like a giant tease haha.
(https://i.imgur.com/sk0YAbN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IBLttB4.jpg)
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 05, 2019, 03:42:02 AM
That pocket clip is a great piece of kit by itself. I can think of 20 tools I'd like to tap some threads in and install that clip.
But, for starters, Spirit, PocketPowerPlier, PowerLock, MP600, MP400, etc..... :drool:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 05, 2019, 09:17:03 AM
Let me know if my eyes are messed up or something. Maybe I'm seeing these incorrectly, as far as the fit & finish are concerned. I won't point anything out yet, so not to instill any notions. :ahhh
(http://imgur.com/wv5Jcrx.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/VaxvygP.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/NrrCJAw.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/za85MFJ.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/taQ8vUq.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/H7MegKH.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/xZiAiSA.jpg)
Post by: Sam Lim on May 05, 2019, 11:01:55 AM
Post by: gadgetman7 on May 05, 2019, 02:48:12 PM
For the very first time, I am actually going lean towards the spirit. While I do not use a spirit due to the way they design their wire cutter. It's just not suitable for me. But the feel and ergo of using it is very smooth. There's nothing that poke back at my palm. Be it using the pliers or the inboard tool. Everything is just smooth. It a very classic looker for sure. For work, I mainly use a LM or Gerber. Their tools and pliers just works for me. LM is a true workhorse, designed with functionality in mind. But their finishing were never quite the best. Be it a wave, charge or Free series, there are always some edges or parts that are not properly smoothed out. Leaving users to rectify themself. So, my very personal opinion and experience, Vic finishing are top notch. LM, works beautifully but hurts, sometimes. Very very own opinion. Not intended to offend either camps.I’d have to agree about the ergonomics. Neither the Swisstool nor the Spirit poke my hands like the Leatherman Free. Even the Wave doesn’t feel as good when you use the pliers. The Free is particularly aggravating with the tabs on the locks though.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Sam Lim on May 05, 2019, 03:13:15 PM
I’d have to agree about the ergonomics. Neither the Swisstool nor the Spirit poke my hands like the Leatherman Free. Even the Wave doesn’t feel as good when you use the pliers. The Free is particularly aggravating with the tabs on the locks though.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:) I didn't have problem with any hotpots with the wave when using the pliers but it can give you a nasty bite on the flesh of your palm if u are holding too high. Having said this, the wave is still my go to for general purpose. :tu:
Post by: Sam Lim on May 06, 2019, 05:03:53 PM
My routine work involves opening packages, boxes, cutting copper cables, stripping, wire terminations on terminal blocks and I also get to screw many stuffs. End of my work day, very unfortunately, I have to say I am quite disappointed. First off, I didn't like the resistance when opening the main blade. It is not overly strong, but can be felt and if I am not careful, there is the chance of slippage and the blade will spring back. Just doesn't feel fluid. Also attempted to use the flat heads for termination but very soon realise it is not a very good idea. The the shaft of the drivers are sharp. One is an awl and the other is a file. It can scratch, cut, damage anything close enough. Though they are pretty long reach, They are also tapered and are useless for recessed screws. They are also made too thin to give u any kind of confidence when using them. I do not like that 3 Flat head screwdrivers at all. :( One thing that starts to annoy me is, this is one noisy pliers to deploy. When locking down the pliers, the snap is loud and catches attention. Anyone within 5m knows that u are opening the pliers. I didn't like the tension of that spring when closing either, its taking too much effort to open and close that pliers due to that spring latch/lock thing. I did some sanding around the sharp points and corner to try to make it more comfortable but no matter what I can still feel that spring tab and the handle ends working into my palm when using the pliers.
(https://i.imgur.com/6SjPrlt.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/g4hErct.jpg)
On the slightly brighter side, I manage to break in my pliers and they open and closes freely now. They work as they should but they feel just like any normal properly working LM pliers. Strongest? Not sure, feels the same to me but I do notice they are very slightly thinner than the ones on the wave plus which shouldn't make any real difference for the strength and durability. The "new" replaceable cutter definitely works better than the older model as they are grounded steeper. But these cutters are now common to the newer batch of tools from the factory. ST300, wave plus etc. Scissor, no complaints. Almost the perfect size and have a very decent cutting power.
End of the day, I feel very compromised. I really wanted to like this tool but for what it offers, with the fresh and newer ( slightly irritating) design, I still do not feel that this tool is an upgrade over a regular wave plus. :(
Post by: SteveC on May 06, 2019, 05:16:55 PM
I don't see myself getting either of these tools in the future.
Post by: Wspeed on May 06, 2019, 05:27:56 PM
I can’t see myself getting any of them two neither
Just hope that they will start making other models with a flat bit driver :tu:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 06, 2019, 05:47:38 PM
Made myself carry just the P2 for work today. Its a new tool, capability was quite unknown, untested.
My routine work involves opening packages, boxes, cutting copper cables, stripping, wire terminations on terminal blocks and I also get to screw many stuffs. End of my work day, very unfortunately, I have to say I am quite disappointed. First off, I didn't like the resistance when opening the main blade. It is not overly strong, but can be felt and if I am not careful, there is the chance of slippage and the blade will spring back. Just doesn't feel fluid. Also attempted to use the flat heads for termination but very soon realise it is not a very good idea. The the shaft of the drivers are sharp. One is an awl and the other is a file. It can scratch, cut, damage anything close enough. Though they are pretty long reach, They are also tapered and are useless for recessed screws. They are also made too thin to give u any kind of confidence when using them. I do not like that 3 Flat head screwdrivers at all. :( One thing that starts to annoy me is, this is one noisy pliers to deploy. When locking down the pliers, the snap is loud and catches attention. Anyone within 5m knows that u are opening the pliers. I didn't like the tension of that spring when closing either, its taking too much effort to open and close that pliers due to that spring latch/lock thing. I did some sanding around the sharp points and corner to try to make it more comfortable but no matter what I can still feel that spring tab and the handle ends working into my palm when using the pliers.
On the slightly brighter side, I manage to break in my pliers and they open and closes freely now. They work as they should but they feel just like any normal properly working LM pliers. Strongest? Not sure, feels the same to me but I do notice they are very slightly thinner than the ones on the wave plus which shouldn't make any real difference for the strength and durability. The "new" replaceable cutter definitely works better than the older model as they are grounded steeper. But these cutters are now common to the newer batch of tools from the factory. ST300, wave plus etc. Scissor, no complaints. Almost the perfect size and have a very decent cutting power.
End of the day, I feel very compromised. I really wanted to like this tool but for what it offers, with the fresh and newer ( slightly irritating) design, I still do not feel that this tool is an upgrade over a regular wave plus. :(
Sorry to read you did not enjoy your P2, Sam. Maybe there will be a way to mod it in the future to possibly help make it enjoyable like the modded tools you have that you enjoy. :)
Post by: Sam Lim on May 06, 2019, 05:48:50 PM
Good review Sam ! :cheers:
I don't see myself getting either of these tools in the future.
I so wanted to tell myself to like the P2 but there are just too many short comings, at least for me. It just not suitable. The hype that built up over the many months probably contributed to the over expectation. I am sure many other will have different opinions.
Btw, I did unscrewed the tool side of the pivot to have a peek. The tang profile around the pivot is extremely big. None of the things I have laying around will fit. The only way I can see any modification on it is to fabricate new tools from it ground up. So I will leave this godly task to others that have proper access to CnC and mills.. I will be very excited if anyone can improve on this tool. :tu: I notice there is no signs of locktite but unlikely the screw will loosen by itself under normal use. The screw post is the exact same size of what they use on the juice series. I dun have a caliper so I dun have the measurement. Be careful if anyone wish to play around with them. The screw is tiny and will break if it gets jammed. In my juice mods, I bought the barrel screw from a I forgot what knife making website. I accidentally jammed and broke 2 of the screws in the barrel with minimal effort. The screws size and thread is the same. Breaking the ones on the LM shouldn't be too hard.
Post by: Sam Lim on May 06, 2019, 05:51:54 PM
Sorry to read you did not enjoy your P2, Sam. Maybe there will be a way to mod it in the future to possibly help make it enjoyable like the modded tools you have that you enjoy. :)
Posted 2 mins apart. :) See reply to Steve above... I really wish I can enjoy it as much as you are. Keep rocking dude. :tu:
Post by: Sam Lim on May 06, 2019, 06:03:27 PM
Good review Sam :cheers:
I can’t see myself getting any of them two neither
Just hope that they will start making other models with a flat bit driver :tu:
Just a mindless rant for something I considered too overpriced. They did well for the advertising and marketing. ::)
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 06, 2019, 06:11:48 PM
Posted 2 mins apart. :) See reply to Steve above... I really wish I can enjoy it as much as you are. Keep rocking dude. :tu:
Indeed. I would never buy a P4 to replace a Wave only as a user tool. I bought mine, because I enjoy the way they operate and look. I think the function works well enough for moderate use and would be suitable to a large swath of MT users. It won't be replacing my Charge and Surge as far as works tools, but it has performed well for the few days I've used it at work. Not like the Wave/Charge, but it did work.
I said in the beginning and still maintain that Leatherman really really smurfed up by implying(or misleading the public to infer) that the P series was better than the Wave. They should have marketed it as a top-notch quality tool that is fun to play with. Kind of like high-end folding knives. We know that $200+ folding knives don't offer any functional advantage over $50-$100 folding knives. But, with that being the case, there is a massive desire and market for "high-end" folding knives. Leatherman should have gone after that demographic by showing how much fun the P series is to use. I really like the P series, because it is so much more fun to use for me, that I am OK with what I paid, because it works as it should for most tasks, but while being all one-hand accessible and not using fingernail nicks. I don't like it for being 'better than a Wave', because the Wave is a better user tool. Wave just isn't as much fun to use/play with.
Post by: Wspeed on May 06, 2019, 06:14:35 PM
Just a mindless rant for something I considered too overpriced. They did well for the advertising and marketing. ::)For me it hasn’t got any tools where I see
a advantage or better quality than is already available >:(
Post by: AimlessWanderer on May 06, 2019, 06:29:49 PM
Post by: Aloha on May 06, 2019, 06:39:13 PM
has been good. That platform seems to be what ( LM included ) compared the Free series too and for good reason.
In all fairness and stubbornness probably, I am a Wave/Charge/Surge/Bit Holder/Blade Exchanger fan. It would be a challenge to get me to really like another tool that didn't bring it. While I can admit there are somethings about the Wave/Charge that I'd like to see ( blade exchanger ), OHO scissors, top notch QC on every tool, I am not in a rush to seek out my primary tool.
While I have made comments regarding Victoroinox plier offerings the small tweaks to their Swisstool have been really good ones. The Spirit gets the love because if you've handled one and used one you'll know what great engineering is at play. I think I've told y'all that I carry a Spirit now on my pants belt while the bulk of the work goes to my Charge TTi on my work belt. I work in wet conditions as well as use stuff like WD40 or similar and the handling of the tool has not been an issue. The issue is the soft steel. My Phillips will be rounded over soon enough.
I digress. the Free all on its own looks to be quite a good tool. When you go against the BEST in your line up then you'd better bring it. Thats my take. If it were marketed as, LMs Free series the BEST EDC tool, fine. You cannot unring a bell and for many of us we heard them.
The Wave and Spirit have battled for years. No clear winner. No champ will ever be crowned. Many of us love both and several of us have our favorites. Again the Free looks like a great tool but expectations from what I am reading doesn't live up to the hype. Interesting thing to consider, Victorinox has not ( have they? ) promoted their plier based tools nor any changes to the Swisstool when they made them? I bet most of their sales are word of mouth :think: of which they earned.
Post by: Sam Lim on May 06, 2019, 06:48:50 PM
Thanks for the insights, Sam. Unfortunately there isn't anything there that I hadn't expected, aside from the resistance on blade deployment. Tapered drivers are always going to be problematic on recessed fastenings, and mounting drivers on the end of cutting implements isn't what. We'd expect to see from a seasoned toolmaker either. It's a lot of money to pay, to be left disappointed :(
:salute: The closing of the blade in my opinion is more accident prone than what they do on their liner lock. They say that when closing, the thumb will not be in the way of the closing blade. In actual fact, with their tradition liner, the speed of the closing can be controlled. With this new system with that spring assisting closing, the blade snaps close somewhere after the halfway mark. The middle, ring and pinky can be in the way. It IS indeed alot of $ to pay for. But being a member at MTO, I have become an addict.
Post by: Aloha on May 06, 2019, 06:50:51 PM
Post by: Sam Lim on May 06, 2019, 07:02:35 PM
Sam would you carry this tool around the house for casual use? Is this a tool that on a off day would make a good companion?
I dun like to deploy the blade, I dislike snapping the pliers open, I am afraid to use the screw drivers. If I only need a scissor and a pry tool, short answer, still no. Sorry..
Post by: Aloha on May 06, 2019, 07:04:34 PM
Post by: Sam Lim on May 06, 2019, 07:47:30 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 06, 2019, 08:05:31 PM
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 06, 2019, 08:06:33 PM
Well that stinks :rant:. For the collection then.......... :multi:
I wouldn't go that far ...
Yes, the Free P4 doesn't offer that sturdy "I can handle anything" feeling that the Wave/Charge gives you, but this does not mean it will certainly let you down when you use it. As others have said here before, as long as you understand that the Free is more of a "fun to play with" tool and not something that can replace the Wave/Charge, or Surge/ST300 while working a construction site, you'll be fine.
When you go for a hike in the outdoors, or a trip to the city and you just want to bring a tool in case you need to fix something along the way, like unscrewing the battery compartment from a certain device, or filing down a sharp edge on something that broke during you trip, or cutting a piece of metal wire to hold up the exhaust on your car to prevent it from dragging under your car all the way back ... you know, just one of those things that occasionally happen and which can ruin your day, I'm pretty sure the Free will deliver.
It's just not the tool to take with you when you know you're going to cut hardwire 2 hours in a row, or when you need to screw in 200 screws by hand, or ... You guys know what I mean, right ?
And for all you "tool-photographers" out there, it does make for some sweet pics. I would place it next to the classic Leatherman tools like the original Supertool, the PST, etc ... and the new "old style" tools like the Rebar and the ST300 (and once again, last but not least, the Swisstool) when it comes to being photogenic.
Show content
(https://i.imgur.com/7pub002.jpg)
And in my opinion, it is fun to play with, just as I like to play with my Gerber MP600 (sliding pliers :woohoo:), or the mechanickal "bolt action rifle" clicks you get from opening and closing a Swisstool.
Just my 2 cents ;).
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 06, 2019, 08:10:01 PM
I wouldn't go that far ...Well said, T-G! :iagree:
Yes, the Free P4 doesn't offer that sturdy "I can handle anything" feeling that the Wave/Charge gives you, but this does not mean it will certainly let you down when you use it. As others have said here before, as long as you understand that the Free is more of a "fun to play with" tool and not something that can replace the Wave/Charge, or Surge/ST300 while working a construction site, you'll be fine.
When you go for a hike in the outdoors, or a trip to the city and you just want to bring a tool in case you need to fix something along the way, like unscrewing the battery compartment from a certain device, or filing down a sharp edge on something that broke during you trip, or cutting a piece of metal wire to hold up the exhaust on your car to prevent it from dragging under your car all the way back ... you know, just one of those things that occasionally happen and which can ruin your day, I'm pretty sure the Free will deliver.
It's just not the tool to take with you when you know you're going to cut hardwire 2 hours in a row, or when you need to screw in 200 screws by hand, or ... You guys know what I mean, right ?
And for all you "tool-photographers" out there, it does make for some sweet pics. I would place it next to the classic Leatherman tools like the original Supertool, the PST, etc ... and the new "old style" tools like the Rebar and the ST300 (and once again, last but not least, the Swisstool) when it comes to being photogenic.Show content(https://i.imgur.com/7pub002.jpg)
And in my opinion, it is fun to play with, just as I like to play with my Gerber MP600 (sliding pliers :woohoo:), or the mechanickal "bolt action rifle" clicks you get from opening and closing a Swisstool.
Just my 2 cents ;).
And great pic! Indeed, it is a looker. Going to go get some pics in a bit. :)
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 06, 2019, 09:01:12 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/gGgjuql.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/xPhXsjH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kqg8aIT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/1w0kFwD.jpg)
Post by: Aloha on May 06, 2019, 09:22:08 PM
I wholeheartedly agree this tool looks to be a fine tool. I like Sams follow up :cheers:. Since he is not able to take advantage of LMs warranty he will have to, for now, not push the tool beyond his comfort. Also that this tool is a "whole new thing". I am applauding LM for this.
I dont foresee failures, materials that is. The drivers snapping, plier jaws breaking, etc etc. Its not out of the question but until we actually see we can only guess. I do hope this tool in those of you who have them continue to experience positive feelings from them. The Free series while spendy for some sure looks every bit a tool for things that pop up. TG24 you couldn't have said it better. Might not replace anything in LMs lineup but theres really no need to. We've got heavy duty tools and light duty tools. We have room for in between tools.
Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 06, 2019, 09:55:45 PM
Thank you TG24. I wasn't generalizing I was more directing those comments to Sam ;). If the tool was going to be more for his collection purposes only based on his experiences so far.
I wholeheartedly agree this tool looks to be a fine tool. I like Sams follow up :cheers:. Since he is not able to take advantage of LMs warranty he will have to, for now, not push the tool beyond his comfort. Also that this tool is a "whole new thing". I am applauding LM for this.
I dont foresee failures, materials that is. The drivers snapping, plier jaws breaking, etc etc. Its not out of the question but until we actually see we can only guess. I do hope this tool in those of you who have them continue to experience positive feelings from them. The Free series while spendy for some sure looks every bit a tool for things that pop up. TG24 you couldn't have said it better. Might not replace anything in LMs lineup but theres really no need to. We've got heavy duty tools and light duty tools. We have room for in between tools.
Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier.
I misunderstood mate :doh:
Now I get what you meant with "For the collection then.......... ", thanks for explaining :salute:.
:cheers:
Post by: genevabuck on May 06, 2019, 10:18:01 PM
Scissors-check
Replaceable wire cutters-check
Awl-check
OHO-check
Post by: Wspeed on May 06, 2019, 10:38:29 PM
Hard to get any pics without any shade today, but here are a few.Nice pics GLBM :like: :tu:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 07, 2019, 01:42:02 AM
Nice pics GLBM :like: :tu:Thanks, W! :cheers:
On another note: My P4 for the collection arrived today. :woohoo:
Pics of the two P4s and the P2 coming later.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 07, 2019, 03:08:58 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/nmp0Zat.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/i7otiZT.jpg)
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 07, 2019, 03:36:59 AM
(http://imgur.com/MGSxnzP.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/Uy5bfv7.jpg)
And, lastly, I feel like the latest P4 example isn't fitted/finished as nicely as my first one. Polished parts are ever-so slightly less polished(see photos to see more pronounced grinds on the tool spines). Not enough to really really piss me off, but I feel like every example of the P2/P4 should be perfectly fitted/finished like the first ones. I felt like the first one was worth $140, but I feel like the second one I got is worth $110(yet is cost $140 as well). :rant:
Edit: Please note the top P2 and botton P4 are both covered in oil I put on every tool I own to stop spotting and hasn't dried yet. Makes them look funny. :rofl:
Post by: Wpgwave on May 07, 2019, 04:57:37 AM
I wanted the pocket clip and a lower profile.
I am now wondering if I should have gotten the P4.
D’oh!
I love the P2. Am I going to regret not getting a bulkier tool for a few options I’ll never use?
Probably!
How much heavier is the P4, how much thicker? Real world feel, is it noticeable?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 07, 2019, 06:02:51 AM
I'll weight both in a bit and take the calipers to them and post again. :)
Welcome to the forum, Wpgwave! :tu:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 07, 2019, 06:15:43 AM
15.5mm(0.61") thick at the scales.
19.7mm(0.77") thick at the lock release.
P4 - 247.1g(8.716oz) with lanyard attached.
17.2mm(0.68") thick at the scales.
20.9mm(0.82") thick at the lock release.
Post by: Blackbeard on May 07, 2019, 06:34:21 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 07, 2019, 06:38:52 AM
maybe the uncoded ones will be collectors items in the future, being the first ones made :dunno:I think you're right. I spent all evening changing the handles with the date stamp out between the dated and undated ones. :facepalm:
Note: Check the polarity of the magnets before putting the stuff back together. I had one all together and popped the pliers back in and the handles were repelling each other. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
BTW: There is only one single magnet in each handle. It is the new locking system and springs that are cantankerous to reassemble if the owner doesn't take MTs apart very often.
Post by: Blackbeard on May 07, 2019, 06:40:43 AM
I think you're right. I spent all evening changing the handles with the date stamp out between the dated and undated ones. :facepalm:
Note: Check the polarity of the magnets before putting the stuff back together. I had one all together and popped the pliers back in and the handles were repelling each other. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
that sounds cool, on this end :rofl: I'm sure it sucked tho
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 07, 2019, 06:44:50 AM
Anyway... I heard that LMN will/is shipping free (no money) pocket carrier for the users who have bought a P4, cuz this one has a lanyard.
Is yhere any truth behind, should i stress lmn support?
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 07, 2019, 06:47:45 AM
that sounds cool, on this end :rofl: I'm sure it sucked tho:rofl: :iagree:
Hello there, i have ordered a P4 and can't wait to get it. Today or tommorow.Congrats, Raoul! :like:
Anyway... I heard that LMN will/is shipping free (no money) pocket carrier for the users who have bought a P4, cuz this one has a lanyard.
Is yhere any truth behind, should i stress lmn support?
It is a fun tool for sure. :woohoo:
I'd email them and see. I need to do the same. :ahhh
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 07, 2019, 07:28:56 AM
maybe the uncoded ones will be collectors items in the future, being the first ones made :dunno:
Oh that's just great...
Now I need to get another one... :facepalm:
Just as I did with my first Wave + that came with different lettertype "Leatherman" and without the "+" on the handles.
I swear they are doing this on purpose :rant:.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 07, 2019, 07:32:22 AM
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 07, 2019, 07:55:25 AM
Since the date coded ones are the latest ones, you're going to need to make sure you have an undated P2 and P4 before they're all gone to new owners. :whistle:
My P4 has no date codes, and I'm probably going to wait a while before I get a second one, first of all to make sure it's one with date codes and second because they are quite expensive over here...
And that's also the reason why I probably won't go for the P2 (probably being an important word in that sentence ::)).
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 07, 2019, 07:59:24 AM
My P4 has no date codes, and I'm probably going to wait a while before I get a second one, first of all to make sure it's one with date codes and second because they are quite expensive over here...Yeah, I am feeling the money-hurt after buying three Ps. Yeah, they're cheaper here, but when I start to add them up. :facepalm:
And that's also the reason why I probably won't go for the P2 (probably being an important word in that sentence ::)).
And you're going to need to get a P4 very soon, or the one you probably won't get will have date codes. :pok:
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 07, 2019, 09:55:16 AM
In short, the design of Sonic has been received with so much critic that the movie studio stated they will redesign Sonic to be more like the video game Sonic . Movie will be released this autumn.
My idea, not to start any beef with you or LMN, is me ... as a user,
to have a saying in the design of a multi tool
( i tried saying that to LMN with the mods thing, mods to do yourself at home via official kits (they did hat thing with the engraving, 1-2y after my inittial email(not that i was the rootcause))
I fell that this way we can get faster to the Supreme Multitool, yeah..i know i'm a dreamer,
yet just imagine something where you can customize, adjust to your specific needs, with no grinding, cannibalizing other multitools etc etc.
Anyway, what do you say, could we persuade LMN to issue a second series of LMN FREE P4 with the below:
I have no problem with the lack of a bit holder, yet a ST300/Rebar Philips screw driver would solved this as there is the bit adapter for that specific tool.
Also, a carving on the end of the pliers head, to support the bits would have solved the issue too.
Surge Tshank is a must from my view. To be mounted on the side, where the saw rests. It gives you more freedom, the file(diamond coated) can be free and you can use it for sharpening your blade in a specific scenario, you can also use aftermarket metal saw, not just a wood saw, and it would solve that comedic small , fingernail -file -ruler that everyone says it’s useless.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 07, 2019, 11:40:26 AM
The P file is double sided, one side cross cut mild and the other single cut aggressive. Much more useful than the file/ruler thing on the Wingman/Sidekick/Rev.
The comedic "ruler"(which we know is there to pad the tool count), on the P2/P4, is on the medium flat driver implement that includes a small wire stripper at the base. :tu:
Edit: Photos of the mentioned implements.
(https://i.imgur.com/YY7NkvO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/L8tcGzI.jpg)
Post by: temo on May 07, 2019, 12:18:38 PM
Seems toolset vice example rebar is not so strong so update need is not from that perspective. I really wait K and T to come out. Those are in size I could EDC fun to play with tool. And sure do unexpected tasks so without underrating tool properties.Sent from my VIE-L09 using Tapatalk
Post by: nwoody on May 07, 2019, 02:30:45 PM
Hello there, i have ordered a P4 and can't wait to get it. Today or tommorow.
Anyway... I heard that LMN will/is shipping free (no money) pocket carrier for the users who have bought a P4, cuz this one has a lanyard.
Is yhere any truth behind, should i stress lmn support?
I emailed leatherman about this asking if it was true, and they must have looked up my email to see if I was a customer. They ended up sending the pocket clip kit out right away and I have received it already...no charge. I posted some pics of it a few posts back. Pretty cool as it isn't even available on their website yet last time I checked. I didn't get a chance to try it out though as I had to send my P4 along with a charge TTI in for warranty yesterday.
Post by: NetsNJ on May 07, 2019, 05:28:52 PM
Leatherman gets too much crap from people, I am consistently impressed with them.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 07, 2019, 06:41:12 PM
I emailed LM about a pocket clip and got this back:
Quote
I will get that out in the mail to you.
Janel Malcomson
Leatherman Tool Group
Consumer Support SpeSmurfpillst
5226 NE 152nd Place
Portland, OR 97230
800-847-8665 X484
503-408-5484-direct line
Post by: nwoody on May 07, 2019, 07:35:09 PM
I emailed LM about a pocket clip and got this back:
Basically the same response I got. Never got a tracking number but it did show up a few days later. The customer service does seem amazing. I've been pleasantly pleased the couple times I've previously used the warranty service, granted I did send in retired tools, so got brand new tools back instead of repairing mine. Sent in an old wave and got a brand new wave + back and also sent an old broken PST and got a brand new rebar back. My P4 and charge tti are supposed to make it to them tomorrow, hopefully it doesn't take too long for them to repair and send it back! I already miss fidgeting with the p4.
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on May 07, 2019, 08:48:23 PM
First brief impression is very nice and flickable, nicely loose pliers and good external tool extraction. Inner tools somewhat stiffer. Reminds a bit of an OHO Spirit.
No date stamps in the handles, dispatched by BladeHQ on the 3rd of May. Maybe they're still working on their first-prod batch.
Dilemma, nay, quandary... user or collection? I don't actually collect as such...
Post by: Wspeed on May 07, 2019, 09:04:27 PM
I would use it :D
Post by: Syncop8r on May 07, 2019, 10:33:32 PM
Dilemma, nay, quandary... user or collection? I don't actually collect as such...Use, because that's what (multi)tools are for. :pok:
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on May 07, 2019, 11:42:58 PM
Surely, the idea of a P series challenge will have come up. When will we be able to earn the badge? :angel:
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 08, 2019, 12:37:08 AM
Wow nwoody that is amazing service,
Leatherman gets too much crap from people, I am consistently impressed with them.
I will send them an e-mail tomorrow when I get home from work asking the same question, let's see what will happen.
If Leatherman U. S. A. is going to handle it for me by sending me the pocketclip themselves it will probably be okay.
If, on the other hand, they redirect me to the Belgian Leatherman site I'm basically scr*wed...
I'm still waiting for their response to my previous e-mail, in which I asked them if they knew when the new Free P4 tool would be available in Belgium, and what the retail price would be... ::)
Post by: JustinCase on May 08, 2019, 12:56:12 AM
https://www.leatherman.com/free-p4-585.html?dwvar_585_color=10&cgid=multi-tools#start=1
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on May 08, 2019, 01:03:10 AM
A little bit of handling revealed an interesting fact, namely the slight asymmetry in the position of the dividing walls between the tools on one side and not on the other. Probably important for those who want to mod the tool. Although using existing implements from other tools might be difficult due to what looks like a very unusual pivot/tang profile...
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 08, 2019, 01:36:11 AM
I'm in for a challenge at some point. :cheers:
Good luck on the clip acquisitions, D_T and T-G! :ahhh
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on May 08, 2019, 03:42:13 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 08, 2019, 04:48:45 AM
Post by: shadow78 on May 08, 2019, 05:35:27 PM
I kind of follow this topic since the tool is out and agree but also disagree with some comments. Anyway I could not hold myself back longer and managed to put my itching hand on a P4. :multi:
First impression is as others said it’s a good tool. But definitely didn’t worth the asking price, not in the UK anyway.
I’m missing the changeable bits, the file looks short but quite aggressive even feeling it with my hand. The most useless tool on it the ruler. My model has a bit of a stiff pliers jaws pivot. Not sure if that’s the same with others I hope it would brake in soon. Time would tell how can this serve as an edc I guess.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 08, 2019, 07:12:02 PM
But, that said, better tight then loosen, than loose then sloppy. :dunno:
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 08, 2019, 11:58:48 PM
Congrats, D_T! :woohoo:
I'm in for a challenge at some point. :cheers:
Good luck on the clip acquisitions, D_T and T-G! :ahhh
I've just e-mailed Leatherman U.S.A. to ask when/where I could find these pocket clips in Belgium (and I also added that my P4 didn't come with a sticker of the new Logo, as seen here and on some youtube unboxing videos).
I'll keep you guys posted when I get an answer ;).
Post by: ZapWizard on May 09, 2019, 12:02:50 AM
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 09, 2019, 12:11:17 AM
I emailed info at leatherman today, with my order number. They replied a few hours later saying their will ship me a belt clip.
But you guys ordered directly from Leatherman U.S.A. right ?
I ordered mine at a Belgian outdoor store (official Leatherman dealer, probably the most important dealer in Belgium and also the store that Tim Leatherman himself visited back in 2016 to do some engraving and meet and greet session).
I added a printscreen from my order history from this store, showing how I ordered a P4 on the 26th of April, maybe that will do.
Anyway, I would already be happy if these pocket clips were available for sale over here.
Post by: Wpgwave on May 09, 2019, 02:33:56 AM
The little retaining tab inside broke off.
Not sure how the hell that happens!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/f5f1ffc377f46dadde4936013c47bb79.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/4f383bd949c6172d0a05fcae0683ae4e.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: ZapWizard on May 09, 2019, 02:47:45 AM
The little retaining tab inside broke off.
Not sure how the hell that happens!
(https://i.imgur.com/KzY10aP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AisBAB1.jpg)
That little double bend in the sheet metal might be a weak point. Especially if they formed the tab using two sheet metal operations and not a single pressing. Just the same as bending a paperclip back and forth.
My CAD model isn't perfectly accurate, but it looks like they put the first bend in to move the around the can opener. Than they put in a second bend to match the angle on the pliers.
If you close the tool with the pliers open, these little tabs close them for you, but it should not be enough force to break that tab, unless it was already cracked.
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on May 09, 2019, 03:06:08 AM
Sorry that happened Wpgwave, hope it gets replaced soon!
Post by: Wpgwave on May 09, 2019, 03:13:54 AM
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: AimlessWanderer on May 09, 2019, 03:29:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/KzY10aP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AisBAB1.jpg)
That little double bend in the sheet metal might be a weak point. Especially if they formed the tab using two sheet metal operations and not a single pressing. Just the same as bending a paperclip back and forth.
My CAD model isn't perfectly accurate, but it looks like they put the first bend in to move the around the can opener. Than they put in a second bend to match the angle on the pliers.
If you close the tool with the pliers open, these little tabs close them for you, but it should not be enough force to break that tab, unless it was already cracked.
Agreed! I reckon it'll be coined in one hit, but that's still a fair bit of metal strain for a short return bend like that. When I was working in the drawing office with hydraulic folding machines, the golden rule for folding was 8x material thickness for the length of each bend . I never worked with press brakes though, so I don't know their true limitations before there's a risk of a tear. :surrender:
You can see a line in the center of the broken half, it looks like it may have been cracked.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Exactly what I thought :cheers:
Post by: Blackbeard on May 09, 2019, 03:35:46 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 09, 2019, 05:07:34 AM
Thats the piece where the date stamp is on GLBM's newer sample :think:Excellent thought. :salute:
I will check the bend and thicknesses of the pliers return tabs in a bit. :tu:
We've got two recorded issues now.
1. Scissors tang not cut correctly and pulling out with the drivers in one example.
2. Pliers return tab broken off in one example.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 09, 2019, 05:18:17 AM
Looks like LM may have figured out there was an issue(possible tabs breaking during QC checks maybe), because the double-bend appears corrected slightly on the dated handle.
Dated handle bottom.
(http://i.imgur.com/FoKO3gi.jpg)
On the plus side, checking both P4s and the P2, I don't see any stress cracks or fissures on the 6 pliers return tabs.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on May 09, 2019, 05:23:12 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 09, 2019, 05:47:02 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 09, 2019, 08:15:18 AM
I had disassembled both of my P4 tools to make a swap of the handle scale only(with no date code) to the unused P4 that had a date code. Which meant an entire disassembly of one handle to swap the tools and swapping the other handle over to the other pliers head(decided I liked the first pliershead better for the collection P4). OK. The collection P4 does not do what I am about to describe. But, my user P4, after a day or so of use, has developed a slight "squeak" in one of the handles when opening/closing. I traced the noise the pivot where the elastomer cushion is at. Only one side does it, but I am not sure if I damaged it, or if it is the oil I used. It didn't occur to me when I oiled it after reassembly that I used petroleum based oil, since I usually use silicone based oil, but was out.
The P4(and P2) are somewhat troublesome to take apart, so I thought it might be a good idea to ask first. Well, not so much as troublesome to disassemble/reassemble, but getting the pivot tightness perfect(which took me about half an hour).
Should I wait and see if the "squeak" goes away, or do I need to take the pliers off, clean out all of the oil and dry the cushions, then apply some sort of rubber-safe grease?
Any insight would be much appreciated. :salute:
Post by: Striker on May 09, 2019, 09:47:41 AM
Just received a leatherman free p2 from leatherman australia for $290 aud or $202 usd, thats what they cost here.
First impressions are good. Nice solid lockup on all tools. Its a nice size thickness wise. It's kind of a skeletool with scissors, which is exactly what i was hoping for.
Here is a few thickness comparisons between some modern leatherman tools i have on hand.
First the new shiny itself
(https://i.imgur.com/1hmN4Pu.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/X08t9jk.jpg?1)
This is a skeletool
(https://i.imgur.com/wBmWgqw.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y31QcjF.jpg?1)
This one is a rebar
(https://i.imgur.com/cWYi67j.jpg?1)
This one is a wave
(https://i.imgur.com/qmJ3dOu.jpg?1)
This is a OHT
(https://i.imgur.com/vvLaEbE.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/F1lCMuF.jpg?2)
Thanks :)
Post by: Blackbeard on May 09, 2019, 10:38:27 AM
https://www.leatherman.com/CustomerService-Maintenance.html (https://www.leatherman.com/CustomerService-Maintenance.html)
I didnt see any info on what the material is in the P4 pivot but saw this page, not sure it will help, maybe there will be a PDF in the future that gives material specs
Post by: Blackbeard on May 09, 2019, 10:54:41 AM
https://youtu.be/GGDEnCz8hHo
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 09, 2019, 11:58:52 AM
Regarding Bit adapter adn Tshank
From my point of view , the structure of the tool is not strong enough, although a carve-out in the pliers head can support the strength and provide the support for a bit adapter.
T-shank can be mounted yet it would sit without a tool, you would have to open it and mount the file or saw and than use it, which is somehow against the philosophy of the free(dom) P series.
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 09, 2019, 12:30:13 PM
https://youtu.be/TqRnRJ9dbWE
Post by: AimlessWanderer on May 09, 2019, 12:56:22 PM
A quick question, if it's cool. Is regular petroleum based gun oil immediately an issue for the elastomer cushions?
I had disassembled both of my P4 tools to make a swap of the handle scale only(with no date code) to the unused P4 that had a date code. Which meant an entire disassembly of one handle to swap the tools and swapping the other handle over to the other pliers head(decided I liked the first pliershead better for the collection P4). OK. The collection P4 does not do what I am about to describe. But, my user P4, after a day or so of use, has developed a slight "squeak" in one of the handles when opening/closing. I traced the noise the pivot where the elastomer cushion is at. Only one side does it, but I am not sure if I damaged it, or if it is the oil I used. It didn't occur to me when I oiled it after reassembly that I used petroleum based oil, since I usually use silicone based oil, but was out.
The P4(and P2) are somewhat troublesome to take apart, so I thought it might be a good idea to ask first. Well, not so much as troublesome to disassemble/reassemble, but getting the pivot tightness perfect(which took me about half an hour).
Should I wait and see if the "squeak" goes away, or do I need to take the pliers off, clean out all of the oil and dry the cushions, then apply some sort of rubber-safe grease?
Any insight would be much appreciated. :salute:
Without knowing what they're made of, it's hard to say, but the sensible thing would be to have used an resistant grade. Assuming it's a good industrial grade O ring rubber, that same material can be found sealing hydraulic powerpacks, neat cutting oil delivery systems, auto lube systems, and many other industrial applications where they're subject to load, movement, and petroleum based products. They need to have done something very stupid for this to degrade with gun oil.
If it squeaks, add more lube. If it still squeaks, take it apart and give it a good clean and inspect.
Post by: shadow78 on May 09, 2019, 01:36:18 PM
Lube them so the squeak goes away, this is what we did in the automotive industry.
Regarding Bit adapter adn Tshank
From my point of view , the structure of the tool is not strong enough, although a carve-out in the pliers head can support the strength and provide the support for a bit adapter.
T-shank can be mounted yet it would sit without a tool, you would have to open it and mount the file or saw and than use it, which is somehow against the philosophy of the free(dom) P series.
Spending my first day with the p4, my second thought is it’s quite heavy. Don’t have a scale to see the difference between the p4 and a wave + so not sure but seems a bit lighter then the wave.
Anyway I wanted to share my findings regarding bit the bit adapter. I have a range of tools Gerber and SOG some with bit set. I found the sog bitset the most useable with the tool. The adapter sits on the top of the Phillips firm enough to use any standard bits. The only drawback I found is the adapter end goes to the Phillips doesn’t have a magnet so can fall off easier.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qB12sCp7/C4198855-6-E32-4562-8632-1-F290602-D45-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/23Bqmybp)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mkkzX8Tg/C4193-C4-F-D8-FA-40-BA-A622-E1-C34-AEAB405.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YLcCjN45)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xCxqzMLD/789-CAEF5-0-ACB-4-FF8-9-F94-6416-F96-C240-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zbhJmLd0)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pTFXp4V8/4-F58-AF6-C-4-AF0-4-F46-BD84-18831-A782-D64.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DJ7KNCXy)
On the last image there is a similar adapter (Gerber) which potentially would be better but I don’t have tools to make the hole wider to fit the Phillips driver.
I also seen a YouTube video about a similar concept where a guy was using a wera adapter for the bits. If someone interested the video can be find online.
I hope the above would help someone who interested to extend the possibility of this tool...
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 09, 2019, 02:22:11 PM
Hi everyoneVery nice, Striker! :like:
Just received a leatherman free p2 from leatherman australia for $290 aud or $202 usd, thats what they cost here.
First impressions are good. Nice solid lockup on all tools. Its a nice size thickness wise. It's kind of a skeletool with scissors, which is exactly what i was hoping for.
Here is a few thickness comparisons between some modern leatherman tools i have on hand.
First the new shiny itself
(https://i.imgur.com/1hmN4Pu.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/X08t9jk.jpg?1)
This is a skeletool
(https://i.imgur.com/wBmWgqw.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y31QcjF.jpg?1)
This one is a rebar
(https://i.imgur.com/cWYi67j.jpg?1)
This one is a wave
(https://i.imgur.com/qmJ3dOu.jpg?1)
This is a OHT
(https://i.imgur.com/vvLaEbE.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/F1lCMuF.jpg?2)
Thanks :)
GLBMThanks, Blackbeard! :cheers:
https://www.leatherman.com/CustomerService-Maintenance.html (https://www.leatherman.com/CustomerService-Maintenance.html)
I didnt see any info on what the material is in the P4 pivot but saw this page, not sure it will help, maybe there will be a PDF in the future that gives material specs
Lube them so the squeak goes away, this is what we did in the automotive industry.Thanks, Raoul! :cheers:
Regarding Bit adapter adn Tshank
From my point of view , the structure of the tool is not strong enough, although a carve-out in the pliers head can support the strength and provide the support for a bit adapter.
T-shank can be mounted yet it would sit without a tool, you would have to open it and mount the file or saw and than use it, which is somehow against the philosophy of the free(dom) P series.
Without knowing what they're made of, it's hard to say, but the sensible thing would be to have used an resistant grade. Assuming it's a good industrial grade O ring rubber, that same material can be found sealing hydraulic powerpacks, neat cutting oil delivery systems, auto lube systems, and many other industrial applications where they're subject to load, movement, and petroleum based products. They need to have done something very stupid for this to degrade with gun oil.Thank you very much, AW! :cheers:
If it squeaks, add more lube. If it still squeaks, take it apart and give it a good clean and inspect.
That was definitely what I was hoping. Will lube it up a bit more and see what happens. Perhaps the oil didn't make it to the pivot area. I called myself making sure it did, but like anything else, it could have just been 'one of those days' when messing with the P4s. :ahhh
Spending my first day with the p4, my second thought is it’s quite heavy. Don’t have a scale to see the difference between the p4 and a wave + so not sure but seems a bit lighter then the wave.The P4 weighs about .3oz more than the Wave+. So the weight difference is negligible. :tu:
Anyway I wanted to share my findings regarding bit the bit adapter. I have a range of tools Gerber and SOG some with bit set. I found the sog bitset the most useable with the tool. The adapter sits on the top of the Phillips firm enough to use any standard bits. The only drawback I found is the adapter end goes to the Phillips doesn’t have a magnet so can fall off easier.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qB12sCp7/C4198855-6-E32-4562-8632-1-F290602-D45-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/23Bqmybp)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mkkzX8Tg/C4193-C4-F-D8-FA-40-BA-A622-E1-C34-AEAB405.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YLcCjN45)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xCxqzMLD/789-CAEF5-0-ACB-4-FF8-9-F94-6416-F96-C240-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zbhJmLd0)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pTFXp4V8/4-F58-AF6-C-4-AF0-4-F46-BD84-18831-A782-D64.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DJ7KNCXy)
On the last image there is a similar adapter (Gerber) which potentially would be better but I don’t have tools to make the hole wider to fit the Phillips driver.
I also seen a YouTube video about a similar concept where a guy was using a wera adapter for the bits. If someone interested the video can be find online.
I hope the above would help someone who interested to extend the possibility of this tool...
Thank you for your insights into the bit holder situation. I'm hoping LM releases a bit adapters at some point, because at this points, making a solid-setup bit adapter would involve reshaping the phillips shank on the P4. :ahhh
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 09, 2019, 07:07:20 PM
-Inteligent platform, with real easy axx of the tools with one hand
-not quite as hardcore as other LMNs, Wave Surge, Rebar and ST300 are my points of refference
-tools are great EDC, yet i would have skipped a blade(serrated one) to have a larger file and some sort of bit holder/adapter
-Leatherman has skipped some washers/spacers, wich would make the tools more easy to deploy. And for that i am real pissed off
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 09, 2019, 07:16:53 PM
So, after gettin inside the Free and using it intensly i have to say the following:I whole-heartedly agree with all, but the last point. :iagree:
-Inteligent platform, with real easy axx of the tools with one hand
-not quite as hardcore as other LMNs, Wave Surge, Rebar and ST300 are my points of refference
-tools are great EDC, yet i would have skipped a blade(serrated one) to have a larger file and some sort of bit holder/adapter
-Leatherman has skipped some washers/spacers, wich would make the tools more easy to deploy. And for that i am real pissed off
I think more washers and spacers would have either added to the thickness and/or compromised the thickness of the blades. IMO of course. And not to mention, the thing is already complicated to assemble/reassemble already with just two washers per handle(because of magnets). :ahhh
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 09, 2019, 08:04:40 PM
You have to go SAK mod mode, if you know what i mean
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 09, 2019, 08:35:48 PM
I've broken down and reassembled about 200 MTs, so it isn't too big of a deal to me, but I'd never want to mislead someone who doesn't have experience with it into thinking it is easy. :ahhh
And if anyone wants to know how to take out and put the magnets back in, without taking everything apart, let me know. It makes reassembly quite a bit easier. :)
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 09, 2019, 08:43:45 PM
Show content
They are sending me a pocketclip for my Free P4 as a courtesy, how cool is that :sa:.
P.S.: Still no answer from Leatherman Belgium to my question from a couple of weeks ago, "if they could tell me when the Free P4 would be available here, and if they knew how much it would cost ... " ::)
THANK YOU LEATHERMAN U.S.A. :2tu:
P.S.: Still no answer from Leatherman Belgium to my question from a couple of weeks ago, "if they could tell me when the Free P4 would be available here, and if they knew how much it would cost ... " ::)
Post by: Wspeed on May 09, 2019, 08:44:09 PM
how to take the magnets out and put them back :popcorn:
Post by: Wspeed on May 09, 2019, 08:44:34 PM
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 09, 2019, 09:23:59 PM
Great achievment GBLM, i envy you, honestly i wish i'll be able to build a multitool for my kids based on their requierments (when they are bigger).
Yet, everyone who made a sandwich and used a screwdriver will be able to reassemble it.
While it was dissasembled and i analyzed the behaviour, an extra washer for the main 4 tools will make a big difference in their ease of deployment, and i have tightened the tool much more than it was delivered by LMN, well... I guess it was about an extra quarter.
Post by: shadow78 on May 09, 2019, 10:17:24 PM
Got an e-mail from Leatherman U.S.A. today ...Show contentThey are sending me a pocketclip for my Free P4 as a courtesy, how cool is that :sa:.THANK YOU LEATHERMAN U.S.A. :2tu:
P.S.: Still no answer from Leatherman Belgium to my question from a couple of weeks ago, "if they could tell me when the Free P4 would be available here, and if they knew how much it would cost ... " ::)
Can I ask did you buy yours from Leatherman direct or a retailer?
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 09, 2019, 10:34:47 PM
That would be great GLBM if you could show usYeah man. I'll take some pics or video this evening if I remember. :cheers:
how to take the magnets out and put them back :popcorn:
I have been told by Support that only Canada and USA will receive the pocket clip. No pocket clip for the Land of Dracula :(Very cool. :cheers:
Great achievment GBLM, i envy you, honestly i wish i'll be able to build a multitool for my kids based on their requierments (when they are bigger).
Yet, everyone who made a sandwich and used a screwdriver will be able to reassemble it.
While it was dissasembled and i analyzed the behaviour, an extra washer for the main 4 tools will make a big difference in their ease of deployment, and i have tightened the tool much more than it was delivered by LMN, well... I guess it was about an extra quarter.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 09, 2019, 11:06:18 PM
Can I ask did you buy yours from Leatherman direct or a retailer?
I ordered mine from the webshop of a local outdoorstore (A.S. Adventure) since they are an official Leatherman dealer in Belgium, which is always easier in case of a warranty issue. I took a printscreen from my order history and send it along with my e-mail to Leatherman U.S.A. to "prove" that I bought one.
I asked them where/when I could find a pocketclip for the Free P4 in Belgium, and if they could tell me the retail price on them. And they answered that they were going to send me one, just like that :o.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 09, 2019, 11:38:08 PM
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on May 10, 2019, 12:09:43 AM
:woohoo: For LM customer support.
Yep. I've just sent a mail too; after all I bought my P4 in the US, albeit at BladeHQ. Let's see if they send me one too (to my home address as I'll be flying back day after tomorrow)...
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 10, 2019, 12:30:59 AM
I am hoping they will. Bet they don't sell premium tools without the clip included again. :rofl:
The $120 Charge comes with an optional clip and lanyard. The Free Ps should have included the same options, now that I think about it. :rant:
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 10, 2019, 06:06:13 AM
This is my experience regardin reassembly.
https://youtu.be/kvCyzheXMZg
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 10, 2019, 07:12:25 AM
Hmm, i'm going to stress Leatherman again, about that pocket clip.Good video, Raoul! :like:
This is my experience regardin reassembly.
https://youtu.be/kvCyzheXMZg
That is definitely going to be helpful to people. I like your pliers-removed method of stacking. :salute:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 10, 2019, 07:41:06 AM
If anyone wants, I'll remake the video using the correct tools(like angle pick, soft tip pliers, etc) at some point. I just used what I had at my desk for the video.
Note: The springs are difficult to damage, but be careful to not put too much force in pulling them upwards to remove the magnet. You only need them to be raised just a bit to slide each side out one at a time. And always make sure the magnet polarity is correct. Also make sure the scissors spring is seated with the two "bumps" placed into the main scissors implement.
https://youtu.be/kbJc8FxqvJI
Post by: Syncop8r on May 10, 2019, 08:42:04 AM
It looks to be about 18mm on my Surge.
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 10, 2019, 09:46:26 AM
I wonder why LMN did not put some extra washers.
On one side they did, altough one is missing, and on the other side they didn't put any.
Curtesy of SteveC, i altered the pic to stress the missing washers which would make the opening much smoother.
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 10, 2019, 10:07:07 AM
Because, this is the response i got :
Good Morning,
I am happy you were able to get that P4 so quickly. When it comes to the pocket clip, as they are being sold on Leatherman.com now with the pocket clip, customers in the US and Canada, only, who have already purchased them are receiving them as a one time courtesy when they contact us for one.
Kind Regards,
:rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 10, 2019, 02:57:59 PM
What's the centre-to-centre distance between the plier pivots? I am interested to see how it compares with other tools.Will post that in a bit. :)
It looks to be about 18mm on my Surge.
@gerleatherberman good to know, seems a little to much of a hassle tough.Thanks, man! :cheers:
I wonder why LMN did not put some extra washers.
On one side they did, altough one is missing, and on the other side they didn't put any.
Curtesy of SteveC, i altered the pic to stress the missing washers which would make the opening much smoother.
It is a small hassle, but when not making a video, the magnet swap takes about 2 minutes, where a full break down and reassembly takes 5-8 minutes. The method I posted also reduces the possibility of any parts going rogue across the room(like the little washers and screws. :ahhh
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 10, 2019, 03:25:14 PM
What's the centre-to-centre distance between the plier pivots? I am interested to see how it compares with other tools.(http://i.imgur.com/NAtfIHR.jpg)
It looks to be about 18mm on my Surge.
Post by: Aloha on May 10, 2019, 03:30:54 PM
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on May 10, 2019, 05:45:51 PM
I pushed extremely hard on all of the tabs in my Ps and none of them broke and barely flexed. I think this is not going to be a common problem. The 420HC they used for the handles on the Ps is quite strong, even at the 'weak' areas. :dunno:
Just checked on mine, next to no give on the tabs (although undated). May have been just a production fluke on that P2...
(https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=44823.0;attach=433074)
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 10, 2019, 06:13:54 PM
Just checked on mine, next to no give on the tabs (although undated). May have been just a production fluke on that P2...Very good. :like:
(https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=44823.0;attach=433074)
The more I mess with the P4, the more I like it. And it isn't, because it is that great of a tool. I just really like the completely different execution of a useful MT. :facepalm:
Post by: Mechanickal on May 10, 2019, 07:16:44 PM
LM Belgium never replied to my exact same question about the LE PST...
Nothing at all...
I think the LM branch here just sips coffee all day on the profits of the hard working folks in the USA.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 10, 2019, 07:18:25 PM
Hey good news TG!
LM Belgium never replied to my exact same question about the LE PST...
Nothing at all...
I think the LM branch here just sips coffee all day on the profits of the hard working folks in the USA.
I think we should take over ... :viking:
Post by: Mechanickal on May 10, 2019, 07:56:10 PM
I think we should take over ... :viking:I think we'd rock at our job 8)
Their job...
Post by: powernoodle on May 10, 2019, 10:45:31 PM
Pros:
- well constructed
- main blade has a surprisingly solid, beefy feel
- pocket clip and nice sheath
- magnet and free-swinging handles
- plain edge blade, serrated blade, saw and scissors seem of good quality
- replaceable cutters, nice plier head
- long shank on phillips
- looks pretty nice
- smooth on the hand when using the pliers
- outside-opening tools. Finally.
Cons:
- price; repeat this 32 times
- the deployment of the exterior tools seems very gimmicky and unnatural to me. Whether pushing the thumb forward, sideways or toward the palm, it is difficult to deploy the tools and it hurts the thumb. Its impossible to deploy the phillips driver (and whatever that thing is next to it) except by pushing the thumb forward, and even then it is pretty difficult. Its not a deal-breaker, but its close.
- what is that thing next to the phillips? Flat driver? Pry bar? Package opener? Where the heck is the "package opener"?
- no real 3D phillips
- the ruler has to be a prank; you can hear Timmy giggling if you try hard
- the file is teeny weeny, but at least its sharp and well-made
I would like a spring-loaded plier head, but this probably would reduce the strength of the head.
Until I received this, I thought that each tool - like the 2D phillips - was secured with a magnet. I was wrong, but that's on me. The two halves of the tool are secured with magnets.
I knew what I was getting into when I bought this, so no complaints. The price and the tool deployment turn me off, but I had to have one just to satisfy my MT urge. This MT seems to do every okay, and I'm going to carry it for the foreseeable future just to get a better feel for it. I can work my way past the gimmicky tool deployment. But I would not recommend this to anyone because of the exorbitant price and unnatural tool deployment, instead advocating the Wave, Rebar, Spirit, etc. at 50 - 70% of the cost.
(https://i.imgur.com/rV6VCOT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3LKXCJo.jpg)
Post by: Syncop8r on May 10, 2019, 11:20:59 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/NAtfIHR.jpg)Thanks for measuring that GLBM. :cheers:
I'm surprised though, it always looked to me as if it is much further on the Free than on other models. Perhaps it is just that the handles are thinner. :think:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 11, 2019, 02:29:26 AM
After a couple of days of light use:Great write up, Powernoodle! Thank you for taking the time to do that. :salute:
Pros:
- well constructed
- main blade has a surprisingly solid, beefy feel
- pocket clip and nice sheath
- magnet and free-swinging handles
- plain edge blade, serrated blade, saw and scissors seem of good quality
- replaceable cutters, nice plier head
- long shank on phillips
- looks pretty nice
- smooth on the hand when using the pliers
- outside-opening tools. Finally.
Cons:
- price; repeat this 32 times
- the deployment of the exterior tools seems very gimmicky and unnatural to me. Whether pushing the thumb forward, sideways or toward the palm, it is difficult to deploy the tools and it hurts the thumb. Its impossible to deploy the phillips driver (and whatever that thing is next to it) except by pushing the thumb forward, and even then it is pretty difficult. Its not a deal-breaker, but its close.
- what is that thing next to the phillips? Flat driver? Pry bar? Package opener? Where the heck is the "package opener"?
- no real 3D phillips
- the ruler has to be a prank; you can hear Timmy giggling if you try hard
- the file is teeny weeny, but at least its sharp and well-made
I would like a spring-loaded plier head, but this probably would reduce the strength of the head.
Until I received this, I thought that each tool - like the 2D phillips - was secured with a magnet. I was wrong, but that's on me. The two halves of the tool are secured with magnets.
I knew what I was getting into when I bought this, so no complaints. The price and the tool deployment turn me off, but I had to have one just to satisfy my MT urge. This MT seems to do every okay, and I'm going to carry it for the foreseeable future just to get a better feel for it. I can work my way past the gimmicky tool deployment. But I would not recommend this to anyone because of the exorbitant price and unnatural tool deployment, instead advocating the Wave, Rebar, Spirit, etc. at 50 - 70% of the cost.
(https://i.imgur.com/rV6VCOT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3LKXCJo.jpg)
Will be looking forward to reading how the P4 handles your day-to-day MT needs. :popcorn:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 11, 2019, 02:34:44 AM
Thanks for measuring that GLBM. :cheers:You're quite welcome, Syncop8r! :cheers:
I'm surprised though, it always looked to me as if it is much further on the Free than on other models. Perhaps it is just that the handles are thinner. :think:
I was a bit surprised as well. In fact, I set the calipers back to zero and took the measurement again to double check. It seems your suggestion of the handle geometry plays a role in the visuals.
Post by: tommywp on May 11, 2019, 02:59:54 AM
Hi everyone
Just received a leatherman free p2 from leatherman australia for $290 aud or $202 usd, thats what they cost here.
First impressions are good. Nice solid lockup on all tools. Its a nice size thickness wise. It's kind of a skeletool with scissors, which is exactly what i was hoping for.
Here is a few thickness comparisons between some modern leatherman tools i have on hand.
First the new shiny itself
(https://i.imgur.com/1hmN4Pu.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/X08t9jk.jpg?1)
This is a skeletool
(https://i.imgur.com/wBmWgqw.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y31QcjF.jpg?1)
This one is a rebar
(https://i.imgur.com/cWYi67j.jpg?1)
This one is a wave
(https://i.imgur.com/qmJ3dOu.jpg?1)
This is a OHT
(https://i.imgur.com/vvLaEbE.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/F1lCMuF.jpg?2)
Thanks :)
Thanks for this! Have always found thickness to be the most important dimension when it comes to comfortable pocket carry and every millimeter counts. Ironically, it also seems to be the least reported on dimension.
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 11, 2019, 09:51:43 PM
My P4, when it arrived, at inspection i found that i could squeze the scales and a tiny space could be seen on between the scales and pivots.
I was not happy with the deployment of the main blade and the saw. And... The scissor was really close to the pliers and depending on the opening it touched the pliers.
I took it apart and observed that on the 4 implements side LMN put washers at the springs, except on the saw side.
I put the "missing" washer and on that side everything was snug, tight and easy to open.
On the main blade side there are no washers around the springs, so i put 2, and now i have changed the 2 with 4.
Guess who doesn't have fingerprints on the right hand...
Now... Deployment of tools is much better than arrived, with the tool itself beeing more... Lets say tight.
Yet... Somehow i have accentuated the scissor problem, it touches the pliers. Any ideea is welcome
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 11, 2019, 09:52:35 PM
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 11, 2019, 09:53:34 PM
Post by: Vadim on May 12, 2019, 07:22:41 AM
but on the Swisstool/Spirit it's a part of locking mechanism.
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 13, 2019, 10:23:35 AM
Something isn't right.
I have taken my tool apart a dozen time.
To have the scissor not rub against the pliers i had to abort the extra washer thingy.
Also, i observed that the pivots have to be inserted in the top scale, Not sit on it (you get it),
this to remove side play between the scales, and also side play in the implements,
yet side play will not be eradicated, and..in my case at least
this side play makes the saw and main blade real hard to open with one hand, saw can even touch the pliers, and in some cases the scissor too.
On the saw side there are washers, and a supplementary washer on the saw will help the ease of opening, Yet the washer needs to be large surface or at least the size of the oem washers( this i observed, to reduce flex/side play of the tools).
On the other hand
I used 2 types of lube, one motorcycle chain lube, the second some silicone based.
2-3 deployments of tools are smooth as hell than it starts to grind-rub, interestingly i fount it to be on the lock tab, with the end of the tools .
No problem with lube on the plier side, yet on the tools it starts to make a grind harshh sound, which is interesting as i can not explain it.
I have also observed that the main 4 tools , without lube, do not make this sound and are somehow easier to open than with lube/grease etc.
If the pivots are torqued tighter, the side play is reduced drastically, yet tools are a pain to open.
If they Torque is too less, there is sideplay and it's going to be hard to open saw and main blade(in my case, this is how the P4 came out of the factory )
An in between okeish case...i have not found yet,
I feel it is a design problem, as the handles are made of 2 parts, not one as Wave/rebar etc aaand the presence of the silicone based elastomer spring bushings whatsoever.
I believe someone has already pointed that out
Right now , it is a useless tool for me, as i can't get it to open and close the way i desire (saw, main blade and scissor, the rest are ok)
And the way i desire, is similar to Wave/Surge, on the main tools.
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 13, 2019, 11:14:39 AM
So the tool pivot will keep all in place, and the pliers are just kept toghether.
Anyway, i'm open for ideeas
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 13, 2019, 05:08:41 PM
Another disassembly, thorough cleaning, and application of a drying oil might be the way to go. I suspect LM used a drying oil at the factory, since I didn't see any oil residue in the tool pivots of the P2 and two P4s I received.
Post by: Sam Lim on May 13, 2019, 06:24:22 PM
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 13, 2019, 08:24:33 PM
Free P4 beat me.
No succes.
I removed all extra washers, and no luck
I tried all sorts of arrangments of the tools... No luck. By the way 2 thick implements are same thikness as the 4, 1thick implement has thickness of 2 slimmer ones. Serated and main blade same thickness.
Interestingly one pivot is sligthly longer than the other.
On the saw side the extra washer helped with the opening and pivot still entered the top scale.
On saw side pivots enter almost fully the top scale due to saw reduced thickness, wich is the reason for the 3 oem washers.
I have slightly grinded the thicker scale washers on the scissor side, a hundred of a mm, should not make any difference. Anyway i used the scale washers from the other side, it does not compute.
On the scissor side, pivot enters just slightly in the scale.
I changed the pivots between them and somehow it looked fine(scissor not touching the pliers, tools opening somehow okeish) YET... The pliers would not want to close, one side remains in position and does not compress the elastomer spring and makes closing a pain. I changed sides with pliers, same problem, actually both handles would not close, i changed bushings between them, tested bushings in the hand(they compress, no alteration in composition).
Please make an experiment for me:
Open middle tools on the scissor side, than open main blade. Than open middle tools, and than scissor.
Compare main blade opening to this: open 3-5 times main blade. It should (mine has) stick and become harder to open.
Do the same comparison with scissor.
Opening to be performed with thumb and middle finger(for scissor), one hand opening.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 13, 2019, 08:33:41 PM
Perhaps you can contact Leatherman and see what they can do. Maybe they can fix it for a fee or something. :dunno:
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 13, 2019, 08:38:03 PM
First mod:
saw side... Improvement with extra washer, no problems.
Scissor side, no problems with 2 very thin wave washers, scissor almost touching the pliers.
Problems started when i changed the 2 wave washers with the brass one from the pics posted. On the scissor side as scissor touched the pliers.
From that point on i go from an issue to the next... And most consistent, regardin problems is on the scissor side.
No force was used, so no bending, i slightly grinded 2 scale thick washers, 0.1mm max combined... And as i said, i have changed washers from one side to the other to identify root cause of scissors toiching the pliers.
P4 behaved ok till i tried to put the brass washers... Maybe it is me... I'm kinda of a zombie due to lack of sleep, working and trying to put my P4 back in working condition, aka using it with one hand, easy, with no hard times(like a blade that blocks and cant open eith the thumb)
This is the first Leatherman that i cant reassembly the same as it was, it looks that
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 13, 2019, 09:21:54 PM
Though, they come without needing a break in period from the factory, throwing off the configuration a bit with the ground washer, it may now need a break in period.
That's all I've got. Wish I could be more help, but the extent of my work on the P4 was merely swapping pieces and not modification of the OEM configuration. :dunno:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 14, 2019, 12:07:14 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/frByroQ.jpg)
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 14, 2019, 07:39:12 AM
Pliers closing was user problem(fatigue and expectations) , this morning i was able to close it fine.
Saw side is fine, no problems there.
Scissor side... WIP, i have to find the right arrangement so scissors dont touch pliers.
Regarding friction... I need to find a better lube.
I checked the videos i made and tried to remeber every impression... And... Every third consecutive time i tried to open main blade or saw it got somehow stuck and i gelped with the middle finger. Scissor and serrated i opened directly with middle finger and did not observed any issue, altough i helped with the thumb.
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on May 14, 2019, 08:02:35 AM
...By the way 2 thick implements are same thikness as the 4, 1thick implement has thickness of 2 slimmer ones. Serated and main blade same thickness.Hmmm... I've looked at mine and it would seem to me (to be confimed by measurement) that the implements in the block of 4 are not of equal thickness... the outermost ones are thicker than the central ones. Also on one handle there is a slight asymmetry which is not present on the other handle, as the blades (saw, PE, SE) and scissors are not of equal thickness either. But if you kept the original order on re-assembly that should not make any difference, I suspect. I must admit I am a bit hesitant to take it apart just for fun - there are many parts on this thing, more than I am used to on Waves and Rebars.
Interestingly one pivot is sligthly longer than the other.
One thing I am sure will disappoint and deter most modders is the incredibly complex shape of the locking surfaces on the tangs (which also differs between the main blades and scissors on the one hand and the minor implements on the other :facepalm:). This is not something one can easily reproduce and/or fit to existing implements from other multitools with a set of files and a Dremel. It also seems that the pivot lengths are a major constraining factor in the exact positioning of implements, more so than in e.g. the Rebar (probably down to the split handles). This makes the Free series far less amenable to modding by all except highly speSmurfpillsed toolmakers with sophisticated equipment. The question arises whether this is an intentional move, e.g. to forestall "warranty" replacements after modding...?
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on May 14, 2019, 08:16:12 AM
Well, sorry for beeing such a crybaby, i fell you guys understand better.
Pliers closing was user problem(fatigue and expectations) , this morning i was able to close it fine.
Saw side is fine, no problems there.
Scissor side... WIP, i have to find the right arrangement so scissors dont touch pliers.
Regarding friction... I need to find a better lube.
I checked the videos i made and tried to remeber every impression... And... Every third consecutive time i tried to open main blade or saw it got somehow stuck and i gelped with the middle finger. Scissor and serrated i opened directly with middle finger and did not observed any issue, altough i helped with the thumb.
Looking at your pic Raoul I can't escape the impression that the file and maybe the can opener have slightly recessed surfaces (with coaxial circular contours) at the pivots - or is that just an illusion? If these recesses exist then the placement and size of washers becomes quite critical - the Wave washers may have an outer diameter that overlies the recesses...?
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 14, 2019, 08:42:18 AM
Post by: ZapWizard on May 14, 2019, 04:42:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/w8hiQDR.jpg?1)
The pivot surface on the tools is totally flat. There is a rounded edge at the end of the tool stop to make it so that it doesn't get caught when closing the tool. However, I noticed this rounded edge isn't equal on all the tools.
The can opener on mine is rounded on one side, but has almost no rounding on the other.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 15, 2019, 07:09:08 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/WcAz9qO.jpg)
I am going to put it through a wash cycle soon and see if it will clean up. But, IMO, black would have been much much better of a color choice. Leather box style(or Wave type pocketed nylon option) would be really nice for the P4. The double-pocket leather/nylon premium sheath would be nice as well. I have an extra one of those and think I'll try it at some point.
Note: the grey nylon sheath is of good usable quality, but the color looks dingy and the rubbery logo tears up to easily. :ahhh
Nobody is going to look at my grey sheath, the way it looks now, and think "he has the best MT out there." :rofl:
I'll probably just cut the threads attaching the rubbery logo and use it as solid grey.
Post by: Wspeed on May 15, 2019, 12:25:42 PM
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 15, 2019, 01:02:17 PM
I'm talking about these ones:
(https://i.imgur.com/TvYHiH5.jpg)
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 15, 2019, 01:51:10 PM
The grey sheath :facepalm::rofl:
I had to see how it holds up. :D
I've found it fits nicely into the "old style" leather Charge sheath.Thanks for the info, T-G! :cheers:
I'm talking about these ones:
(https://i.imgur.com/TvYHiH5.jpg)
I don't own one of those, but will look for one this weekend. :)
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 16, 2019, 11:00:38 AM
Short history: i took the tool apart, reassembled it with wave implements washers on the Saw, main Blade and Scissor.
Which made the tools open easier with one hand(thumb)
This because I was not happy with the way the tools opened and the saw and scissor (while opening) touched the pliers. Scissor was quite close to pliers head in closed position.
All Ok, except the fact that the scissor touched the pliers while closed, and ...long story short i disassembled and reassembled the tool numerous times bumping in others issues while not being able to fix the touching of the pliers by the scissor, plus, the opening with one hand(thumb) became more and more difficult and also the handles would not close easy(they stuck, and i needed some force to close them)
What have i learned/discovered:
- The scales have to be parallel to each other
- Pivots must enter the scales, on pliers side they enter almost completely yet on the implements side pivot enters just a bit
- Pliers pivot screw must not touch the sandwich of scales, half moons, pliers, scales. A 0.1mm tolerance is needed so handles close easy . This space was observed from the box yet attributed to poor manufacturing( my error). This helps the parallelism of scales.
- Saw side has 3 washers, this to compensate slimness of the saw, it also helps regarding to smoothness of opening.
YET- DO NOT EXPECT SMOOTHNESS ON OPENING THE TOOLS WHILE EVERYTHING IS CLEAN & DEGREASED, my main fault
-opening of the main tools is ODD, do not expect Wave or OHT easyness.
Actually, the FREE P is not advertised as one hand opening tool.
-extra Washers do help, yet geometry of the tool does not allow you to add extra washers, tinkering is needed, or a longer rear and front pivot and thicker front half moons.
- a good Lube is desired for the Free P, don't waste time with washers like a did.
Conclusion, i manufactured some washers from Zytel ( i had a handel from a Blast)
to be larger and to be put on the scales to help keep parralelism
i have moved an inner washer to the main blade and added a zytel washer to the saw.
also i moved scissor on saw side.
Now both my handles have same thickness, main blade and saw can be opened ( somehow) smoother with one thumb.
Scissor still touches the pliers head:(
and i've dicovered that the flex of a handel comes from the bushing and/or the entire sanwich cumulated tolerances ( 2 pivots, scales and tools etc). This reduces or amplifies the scissor touch and or implements movement referrenced to the pliers head.
From my view, thicker pivots are needed on the implements side, and spacers to reduce friction.
Info:
On the scales, washer is standard, 3.2mm inner diameter, 0.5mm thick and 7mm wide
On the saw side, there are 3 washers, thinner and slightly larger than standard ones. 2 come inside , next to the spring, and one between the spring and serrated blade.
PS: the moment i renounced to open the Free P4 like a Wave/Surge OHT all my nerves were gone.
It is a great Plier opening tool, altough when rotation is applied it's not so fun, really OK to open main tools with both hands( one holding the tool) and the other hand WITH the finger nail to have it open.
Middle implenets are real smart to be opened with one Hand
I'm kinda disspointed, i had other expectations(mainly in ergonomy and ease of use), maybe too high for a 175USD multitool
Wave gen 1 is still my favorite, followed by Surge( who is my first love and first LMN) who became too big and heavy for my daily needs.
I WISH FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART THAT LMN DOES READ-RECEIVE OUR FEEDBACK, in order to have the Free P EVOLVE to something even better. my2cents
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 16, 2019, 11:35:04 AM
To be objective on the Free P4 (In extension to P2)
-Pliers opening closing is main feature,great, we had to sacrifice overall tool robustness (handle made of 2 parts not one U shape pressed) and reduce rotation force (yet this is happening in a small amount of scenarios). Though plier and Tools used as plier seems to be able to do the same job as any other LMN
-from 2 outside one hand opening tools we have now 4, indeed harder and annoying to open than the 2 on the Wave yet you can open them all
-all implements able to open with one hand, Second to main feature, great..yet implements form and selection can be improved but this is subjective already (Bit holder)
-Toughness, overall robustness and opening of the main tools can be improved, depends if LMN wants it and offcourse if it is desired by the consumers
I have a hunch that the competition is learning and sooner or later , the'll come with something better ...it's the way of life evolving, not staying in the same place
PS: From PR point of view, great marketing and Hype campaign. I'm sorry that i bit the bait , yet now i know better what i desire and what i truly need ( i do use them tools, not keep them on a shelf( no offense to collectors or owners who like to admire them, we're all different and that is good, the world would be such a boring place otherwise)
Post by: Sam Lim on May 16, 2019, 01:14:38 PM
I can't exactly say I fell prey to their hyped marketing cos I am still going to get it sooner or later. Just not at this kind of price for sure. I still say $120 and $140 for this is mad. Not to mention the exorbitant markups in the overseas market. Still, I am sure they are going to sell many of these.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on May 16, 2019, 02:09:15 PM
hello, remeber me:)
Short history: i took the tool apart, reassembled it with wave implements washers on the Saw, main Blade and Scissor.
Which made the tools open easier with one hand(thumb)
This because I was not happy with the way the tools opened and the saw and scissor (while opening) touched the pliers. Scissor was quite close to pliers head in closed position.
All Ok, except the fact that the scissor touched the pliers while closed, and ...long story short i disassembled and reassembled the tool numerous times bumping in others issues while not being able to fix the touching of the pliers by the scissor, plus, the opening with one hand(thumb) became more and more difficult and also the handles would not close easy(they stuck, and i needed some force to close them)
What have i learned/discovered:
- The scales have to be parallel to each other
- Pivots must enter the scales, on pliers side they enter almost completely yet on the implements side pivot enters just a bit
- Pliers pivot screw must not touch the sandwich of scales, half moons, pliers, scales. A 0.1mm tolerance is needed so handles close easy . This space was observed from the box yet attributed to poor manufacturing( my error). This helps the parallelism of scales.
- Saw side has 3 washers, this to compensate slimness of the saw, it also helps regarding to smoothness of opening.
YET- DO NOT EXPECT SMOOTHNESS ON OPENING THE TOOLS WHILE EVERYTHING IS CLEAN & DEGREASED, my main fault
-opening of the main tools is ODD, do not expect Wave or OHT easyness.
Actually, the FREE P is not advertised as one hand opening tool.
-extra Washers do help, yet geometry of the tool does not allow you to add extra washers, tinkering is needed, or a longer rear and front pivot and thicker front half moons.
- a good Lube is desired for the Free P, don't waste time with washers like a did.
Conclusion, i manufactured some washers from Zytel ( i had a handel from a Blast)
to be larger and to be put on the scales to help keep parralelism
i have moved an inner washer to the main blade and added a zytel washer to the saw.
also i moved scissor on saw side.
Now both my handles have same thickness, main blade and saw can be opened ( somehow) smoother with one thumb.
Scissor still touches the pliers head:(
and i've dicovered that the flex of a handel comes from the bushing and/or the entire sanwich cumulated tolerances ( 2 pivots, scales and tools etc). This reduces or amplifies the scissor touch and or implements movement referrenced to the pliers head.
From my view, thicker pivots are needed on the implements side, and spacers to reduce friction.
Info:
On the scales, washer is standard, 3.2mm inner diameter, 0.5mm thick and 7mm wide
On the saw side, there are 3 washers, thinner and slightly larger than standard ones. 2 come inside , next to the spring, and one between the spring and serrated blade.
PS: the moment i renounced to open the Free P4 like a Wave/Surge OHT all my nerves were gone.
It is a great Plier opening tool, altough when rotation is applied it's not so fun, really OK to open main tools with both hands( one holding the tool) and the other hand WITH the finger nail to have it open.
Middle implenets are real smart to be opened with one Hand
I'm kinda disspointed, i had other expectations(mainly in ergonomy and ease of use), maybe too high for a 175USD multitool
Wave gen 1 is still my favorite, followed by Surge( who is my first love and first LMN) who became too big and heavy for my daily needs.
I WISH FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART THAT LMN DOES READ-RECEIVE OUR FEEDBACK, in order to have the Free P EVOLVE to something even better. my2cents
Wow, I really hope you keep moding. Your approach is rather unique. I am sorry the p series isn't quite what u hoped for, but your work is really benefiting the community.
Cheers,
HG
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 16, 2019, 02:28:01 PM
I played with all the otheR LMNs i have...
To be objective on the Free P4 (In extension to P2)
-Pliers opening closing is main feature,great, we had to sacrifice overall tool robustness (handle made of 2 parts not one U shape pressed) and reduce rotation force (yet this is happening in a small amount of scenarios). Though plier and Tools used as plier seems to be able to do the same job as any other LMN
-from 2 outside one hand opening tools we have now 4, indeed harder and annoying to open than the 2 on the Wave yet you can open them all
-all implements able to open with one hand, Second to main feature, great..yet implements form and selection can be improved but this is subjective already (Bit holder)
-Toughness, overall robustness and opening of the main tools can be improved, depends if LMN wants it and offcourse if it is desired by the consumers
I have a hunch that the competition is learning and sooner or later , the'll come with something better ...it's the way of life evolving, not staying in the same place
PS: From PR point of view, great marketing and Hype campaign. I'm sorry that i bit the bait , yet now i know better what i desire and what i truly need ( i do use them tools, not keep them on a shelf( no offense to collectors or owners who like to admire them, we're all different and that is good, the world would be such a boring place otherwise)
Raoul,
Your efforts to guide the community to modding ideas are much appreciated. Fortunately I have found the stock configuration to be suitable to moderate needs. I've never been hit with an overwhelming need to mod my tools(though I have a few tools I modded for fun). As far as the possibility of improvements, I can find many for any tool for sure, but the idea of objectivity excludes the modding aspect when looked at through the lens of regular users.
Instead of trying to adjust the P4 I've been carrying to be more suited to my needs, I try to adjust my needs to the tool itself. And, that being the case, I am still holding firm that the P4 series are fantastic fun to play with and work very well for most user's needs. But, as far as pure LM user tools go, the Wave/Charge still wins. I'm glad that LM didn't just change up the Wave/Charge again(like the plus versions) and built something for the fidget fun tool market. :)
Post by: Happy Gilmore on May 16, 2019, 03:04:14 PM
+1 :iagree:
Raoul,
Your efforts to guide the community to modding ideas are much appreciated. Fortunately I have found the stock configuration to be suitable to moderate needs. I've never been hit with an overwhelming need to mod my tools(though I have a few tools I modded for fun). As far as the possibility of improvements, I can find many for any tool for sure, but the idea of objectivity excludes the modding aspect when looked at through the lens of regular users.
Instead of trying to adjust the P4 I've been carrying to be more suited to my needs, I try to adjust my needs to the tool itself. And, that being the case, I am still holding firm that the P4 series are fantastic fun to play with and work very well for most user's needs. But, as far as pure LM user tools go, the Wave/Charge still wins. I'm glad that LM didn't just change up the Wave/Charge again(like the plus versions) and built something for the fidget fun tool market. :)
I am one of those people that does feel the overwhelming need to modify my tools, but I really appreciate what LM was trying to do. As long as they keep the surge,st300, and charge/wave as real tools with real implements I'm cool with having two different types of tools. What I look for in a tool is as few substitutes as possible. The P series just has too many for my liking.
Honestly if they hadn't trash talked the wave and made it out to be better (which it def isn't), I would have been a lot more excited about the novelty of this tool.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 16, 2019, 03:13:43 PM
I am one of those people that does feel the overwhelming need to modify my tools, but I really appreciate what LM was trying to do. As long as they keep the surge,st300, and charge/wave as real tools with real implements I'm cool with having two different types of tools. What I look for in a tool is as few substitutes as possible. The P series just has too many for my liking.Fantastic points, Happy G! :iagree:
Honestly if they hadn't trash talked the wave and made it out to be better (which it def isn't), I would have been a lot more excited about the novelty of this tool.
Indeed, LM really screwed up with throwing the Wave under the metaphorical bus. :facepalm:
Why couldn't they have compared it to the SOG PowerAccess, Gerber Truss, Victorinox Spirit, etc. in the promotions? That seems to be the market they intended to go after with the P2/P4. And even I, not being a marketing expert, could make a case for the P2/P4 against those tools.
High-end knife makers produce multi-hundred knives all of the time that have competition at 1/4 of the price(same blade steels, handle material, fit & finish, etc). Leatherman was unwise to compete within their own production.
As much as I lament the Gerber sales tactics, at least they go after their actual competition(CD vs. OHT for example).
Post by: ReamerPunch on May 16, 2019, 03:37:38 PM
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 16, 2019, 03:41:34 PM
Fantastic points, Happy G! :iagree:
Indeed, LM really screwed up with throwing the Wave under the metaphorical bus. :facepalm:
Why couldn't they have compared it to the SOG PowerAccess, Gerber Truss, Victorinox Spirit, etc. in the promotions? That seems to be the market they intended to go after with the P2/P4. And even I, not being a marketing expert, could make a case for the P2/P4 against those tools.
High-end knife makers produce multi-hundred knives all of the time that have competition at 1/4 of the price(same blade steels, handle material, fit & finish, etc). Leatherman was unwise to compete within their own production.
As much as I lament the Gerber sales tactics, at least they go after their actual competition(CD vs. OHT for example).
To be honest, I'm starting to understand why Leatherman put the Free up against the Wave during the promotions.
I mean, it's a win/win situation for them, if it turns out the public likes the Free more, Leatherman wins. If on the other hand, the public ends up prefering the Wave... Leatherman wins :D.
Let's say they put it up against the Spirit and the public decided against the Free, Leatherman ends up "promoting" a tool of a competing brand.
How many times has it been said on this forum alone that the Wave is a better tool than the Free, and that the Wave still rules this size tool-class.
Is there a better way to promote a tool that's been on the market for just over 20 years...?
I would say, well played Leatherman, well played :hatsoff:.
Post by: ZapWizard on May 16, 2019, 03:54:22 PM
For those who think the spring force is too high: You could modify the tool to use only one spring arm. The spring would have to be moved to the center of the tool to ensure even force on it.
The springs are 0.030" (0.75mm) thick. You could alter the stack to use just one washer (https://www.mcmaster.com/94773a737), or two thinner washers (https://www.mcmaster.com/91124a116) to replace the missing spring.
I may try this out myself as I have some other parts to order from McMaster.
Post by: NetsNJ on May 16, 2019, 05:13:14 PM
Nobody is going to look at my grey sheath, the way it looks now, and think "he has the best MT out there." :rofl:
:rofl:
Post by: Happy Gilmore on May 16, 2019, 05:31:06 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/UlNa9Ex.jpg?1)
For those who think the spring force is too high: You could modify the tool to use only one spring arm. The spring would have to be moved to the center of the tool to ensure even force on it.
The springs are 0.030" (0.75mm) thick. You could alter the stack to use just one washer (https://www.mcmaster.com/94773a737), or two thinner washers (https://www.mcmaster.com/91124a116) to replace the missing spring.
I may try this out myself as I have some other parts to order from McMaster.
Thanks! That's really helpful. Wish I had access to a mill to make some of these custom parts. Would love to have the Signal in 3D..I always felt there is potential for other tools to be slotted in for the whistle/rod and the sharpener.
Post by: Sam Lim on May 16, 2019, 05:31:27 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/UlNa9Ex.jpg?1)
For those who think the spring force is too high: You could modify the tool to use only one spring arm. The spring would have to be moved to the center of the tool to ensure even force on it.
The springs are 0.030" (0.75mm) thick. You could alter the stack to use just one washer (https://www.mcmaster.com/94773a737), or two thinner washers (https://www.mcmaster.com/91124a116) to replace the missing spring.
I may try this out myself as I have some other parts to order from McMaster.
Hey Zap! Really like what you have done on the other thread for the parts ideas. :salute:
Wouldn't moving of that spring to the centre further hinders the "easy" extraction of the tools? That will also bring the tools closer to the outer tools, making the rolling action to be more painful than it already is. There are reviews mentioning rolling the implements out hurts the thumb because of the 4 outer tools does not roll. I felt the same way on mine. Longevity of a single spring is a little questionable though it have to be tested in the long run.
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 16, 2019, 08:01:41 PM
problem is, when you move it to the middle the implements are harder to open, AND the main tools, due to clumping (finnaly understood it) open the smaller implements.
See why they used 2 springs. It makes sense.
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 16, 2019, 08:07:34 PM
Altough, i believe they over complicated the solution
Post by: george1 on May 16, 2019, 09:13:36 PM
A day or so after l arrived l got an email asking me to contact the Sales team. Basically they needed a room number before they would ship it to my hotel. l paid for the expedited shipping and in the end they got it to me Alabama in about 24 hours which l thought was very impressive.
Obviously l haven't given it any real use but my first impressions are that l think l'm going to like it.
Overall l rate the concept, design and quality as a 9.5 out of 10.
However overall the tool selection is not ideal for my needs and l would score it 8/10.
My main issue is the lack of a problem file. As others have suggested they should off a version wigh a full length diamond file instead of the poor serrated blade. A compromise could have been to at least have one surface diamond coated on the current file
A secondary complaint is the phillips screwdriver.
Cheers
George
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 17, 2019, 02:13:23 AM
As l was traveling to the US from Australia, l decided to buy the new Free P4 online from LM before l left home in order to give myself plenty of time for delivery.Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and experience with your P4, George! :cheers:
A day or so after l arrived l got an email asking me to contact the Sales team. Basically they needed a room number before they would ship it to my hotel. l paid for the expedited shipping and in the end they got it to me Alabama in about 24 hours which l thought was very impressive.
Obviously l haven't given it any real use but my first impressions are that l think l'm going to like it.
Overall l rate the concept, design and quality as a 9.5 out of 10.
However overall the tool selection is not ideal for my needs and l would score it 8/10.
My main issue is the lack of a problem file. As others have suggested they should off a version wigh a full length diamond file instead of the poor serrated blade. A compromise could have been to at least have one surface diamond coated on the current file
A secondary complaint is the phillips screwdriver.
Cheers
George
Couldn't agree more with dumping the long SE blade and getting a Wave-style file. I would go a step further and want a newly designed file with a diamond coated side and a precision cut cross-cut side like the Rebar(same kind of cut the small P file has).
I can live with the phillips driver. It works very well on most phillips screws. :)
Just want LM to make a slip-over adapter to fit their proprietary bit-kit bits. :)
Post by: george1 on May 17, 2019, 03:26:02 AM
Totally agree about LM needing to sort out a bit adapter for the Free models.
Hopefully this will happen in the next 3 months otherwise l will need to make something up myself.
My thoughts are that the design for such a bit adapter is not complicated and that this would be a perfect 3D metal printed item.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 17, 2019, 03:40:40 AM
I am considering grinding the phillips down to accommodate an adaptor. Only problem is, that if I screw it up, parts aren't available. :ahhh
But, as you said, hopefully within a few months there will be an option. :)
Post by: george1 on May 17, 2019, 04:02:28 AM
However there was no lanyard attachment with mine; no big deal as l don't use the the lanyard attachment but just thought l'd mention it in case someone wants one.
Post by: Walley on May 19, 2019, 07:16:09 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 19, 2019, 07:28:00 AM
I havent been around here for a while and really stopped by to see what people were saying about the Free series. I'm a bit surprised that alot of members here seem to like it? i just cant get on board with the tool selection, the metal filing attracting magnets and the locking tabs sticking out on the handle. i wear a Surge on my side 50hrs a week so i may be a bit jaded...i'm always comparing other tools to it, and they all fall short for my needs. maybe if they had one with replaceable bits and/or file/saw socket i would think differently, but if feel like the Free series are far from the best they have made like they are advertised.
Indeed. Many members mirror your feelings about the Free series. LM really did a bad job with promoting the Free P series. They went after the Wave-user market and the Free P2/P4 isn't going to replace a Wave in a work environment. I feel the market for the P series the same as high-end knives. Not all that practical, but well appreciated, for the design and quality. The tool is really awesome to use, but isn't very practical relative to the Wave in work environments.
I carried mine for several weeks and with minding where I laid the P4 down, managed to avoid a lot of metal debris and dust(I restore antiques, so steel wool and I are best friends..haha). The little bit I did get in/on the tool was easily blown off/out with compressed air or removed with packing tape.
And....The Surge is in a class of its' own. Can't really think of a tool that is more capable. :cheers:
Post by: Mike 56 on May 22, 2019, 03:53:20 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190522/d27566477f06f5805cc3fb1036cf31c6.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 22, 2019, 05:15:28 AM
I have made bit adapters to fit my Wingman, Vic combo tool and straight screwdriver. They are easy and cheap to make. I am getting my P-2 tomorrow. I will check it out and see if they will work on it.Thanks for posting about this, Mike! :cheers:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190522/d27566477f06f5805cc3fb1036cf31c6.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
:popcorn:
Post by: ReamerPunch on May 22, 2019, 07:20:05 AM
So did the Harley Davidson BuckTool.
One of them might actually fit the Free Phillips, but they're impossible to find. :facepalm:
And they might not fit anyway. :think:
Post by: balvenie on May 22, 2019, 01:18:25 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 22, 2019, 01:28:32 PM
The party trick of the Free P2/P4 is fidget factor. Yes, the all OHO/no fingernail needed things are awesome, but it just doesn't punch at the Charge's level. :ahhh
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 22, 2019, 02:12:24 PM
Due to my personal objective to present LMN tool in my native language on YT i ordered a P2...aaaand a P4 came instead.
And it was real usefull to compare with my "modded" with spacers P4
OEM tool is moor loose, especially o the pliers. The oil they use is much better than what i use, so implements open a little easier, altough my zytel spacers make the opening more refined :).
The handles have play, side play, out of the box, and everything inside moves along the scales. I wished they did not...at one point in the reassembling process i taught i f***cked something.
My modded one, when opening the main tools, they do not get so close to the pliers, i believe it is the bigger surface of the spacers...or maybe i just want to believe my ideea with larger surface spacers and thcker bolts.
Except the scissor, the scissor behaves the same, altough not so close tot the pliers when resting, yet it is new, and so was the modded one.
Proof of that 0.1mm space/tolerance on the pliers needed for smooth opening and closing.
I taught it was poor manufacturing , and this lead to my pliers not closing easy.
On the packaging it says one hand opening, true, yet with some exercise and not so smooth as the Wave &co, AAAAAND with the tools touching the pliers head
Post by: Wpgwave on May 23, 2019, 11:44:32 PM
I don't know if I am just hypersensitive now, but there seems to be a lot of play between the handle and plier head while opened.
Lots of wiggle to the sides.
I assume that's normal due to the interlocking pins that line when closed.
Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 24, 2019, 12:15:22 AM
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 24, 2019, 01:43:38 PM
On the pliers side, one side has too much space. I need to tighten it. For the price, i wished LMN did that (hear me LMN? Do you hear our feedback)
Pocket clip aint that cool after all, way to high. I'm gonna loose it, aint my style after all.
I like the slimness and the fact that one side of the scales are... Curved somehow 3D( not flat) , would have been nice to be on both sides.
Wayyy wayyy to gressive with the serrations on the blade.
Other than that... I like it more than the P4.
P4 is thicker, flatter and has a saw and a serrated blade as extra. If it had a saw and file, than P4 would have ruled them all.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 24, 2019, 01:47:44 PM
Man, that is a boneheaded mistake from the assembler team with the screw not tightened down at all. :rant:
Out of curiousity, is your P2 dated?
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 24, 2019, 03:26:21 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on May 24, 2019, 04:02:04 PM
Post by: Raoul Octav on May 24, 2019, 04:17:11 PM
Either way, new batch has pocket clip.
Pocket clip is quite big, high, stand out and affects the ergonomy. It does the trick while the tool is in the pants, yet it is too big.
P4 is quite thick, with the pocket clip it would have been too thick in that particular area.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 24, 2019, 04:21:04 PM
Know what bothers me the most? I want the P4 but can't believe that they chose to put a lanyard ring on the heavier tool...how does that make any sense? Shouldn't the p2 have the lanyard or each of them have both?
I thought Leatherman changed this, I believe they sell the P4 with the pocket clip now on their site.
And if you get one with the lanyard ring, you can contact them and they'll send you a pocket clip (not to all countries apparently, but I guess being in the U.S. you shouldn't have any problems). I'm still waiting for mine ...
Post by: Happy Gilmore on May 24, 2019, 05:14:39 PM
I thought Leatherman changed this, I believe they sell the P4 with the pocket clip now on their site.
And if you get one with the lanyard ring, you can contact them and they'll send you a pocket clip (not to all countries apparently, but I guess being in the U.S. you shouldn't have any problems). I'm still waiting for mine ...
Brilliant, gj Leatherman. :hatsoff:
Post by: SurgeUk on May 30, 2019, 06:17:54 PM
Hi All,
I kind of follow this topic since the tool is out and agree but also disagree with some comments. Anyway I could not hold myself back longer and managed to put my itching hand on a P4. :multi:
First impression is as others said it’s a good tool. But definitely didn’t worth the asking price, not in the UK anyway.
I’m missing the changeable bits, the file looks short but quite aggressive even feeling it with my hand. The most useless tool on it the ruler. My model has a bit of a stiff pliers jaws pivot. Not sure if that’s the same with others I hope it would brake in soon. Time would tell how can this serve as an edc I guess.
Good evening to you all (at least those in the UK/Europe) and good morning/afternoon to the rest of you!
I've just joined and so this is my first post (be gentle) Over the past 30 years I've had most of the classic LMT stuff, not to collect, but to use for my day job (Forces/Police and now Customs work, CBP in the states) I also own a couple for my voluntary role, SAR. However, like most here I also wanted to purchase a P4 (or maybe two) but just like others in the EU, was put off by the price. I have emailed LM customer service to ask about the disparity in price (US vs Everywhere else) and await a final response.
I will, of course, keep you updated as to their reply regarding the US vs EU (or in my case UK) pricing structure which, for those of you Stateside is $247 USD or £189.99 GBP) The most I've paid previously was for my last LMT (the original Surge) which now needs replacing and was £130 (or $164, based on todays rate)
That seems like a bargain compared to the P4 and, to make matters worse...I can't find my original PST anywhere....
Take care all and stay safe!
Darren.
Post by: SirVicaLot on May 30, 2019, 07:31:42 PM
Let us know when you receive something. I don‘t think we will get more than marketing blabla, but will see :popcorn:
Post by: McStitchy on May 30, 2019, 07:37:40 PM
Would like to hear LM's reply if you receive any :salute:
... hour you'll find your PST :pok:
Post by: Wspeed on May 30, 2019, 08:23:54 PM
Post by: 45and9 on May 30, 2019, 11:39:12 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on May 31, 2019, 02:07:31 AM
Post by: shadow78 on May 31, 2019, 02:01:28 PM
The local Leatherman support Whitby&co has the pocket clips for the P4s. The drawback is they wont send them out. They need the P4 to be returned under their warranty service as only they can replace the pocket clip :P.
I decided I'm OK without the pocket clip, will buy one when become widely available...
The above is just for info if anyone interested to get a free pocket clip in the UK.
:cheers:
Post by: Wpgwave on June 02, 2019, 02:53:01 AM
I gave the tool a solid going over with a dry Teflon spray and everything is like butter now. Smooth and fluid.
My only real issue(s) is the play in the handles and the loose feeling when closed. By loose, the amount of travel the pliers have inside the folded handle. You can slide the closed halves up and down quite a ways and get a clacking sound from the pliers hitting the internal stops.
I was seriously thinking about the P4 but aside from a saw, there wasn’t enough to justify the increase in size and weight.
The P2 feels a little more “elegant” and balanced to me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 02, 2019, 03:13:14 AM
I received my replacement P2, and honestly, I am still happy with the multi tool.
I gave the tool a solid going over with a dry Teflon spray and everything is like butter now. Smooth and fluid.
My only real issue(s) is the play in the handles and the loose feeling when closed. By loose, the amount of travel the pliers have inside the folded handle. You can slide the closed halves up and down quite a ways and get a clacking sound from the pliers hitting the internal stops.
I was seriously thinking about the P4 but aside from a saw, there wasn’t enough to justify the increase in size and weight.
The P2 feels a little more “elegant” and balanced to me.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Glad the replacement is working for you, Wpgwave! :like:
I wasn't really o.k. with the looseness of the handles either, so I tightened the pliers mount screws a bit and haven't looked back. It still flips open flawlessly and feels tight. :)
The design calls for really loose handles, but that isn't something I'm used to or want. Easy fix. :)
Post by: Syncop8r on June 02, 2019, 01:44:44 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 02, 2019, 01:56:01 PM
The OHT is the tool LM should have lambasted to promote the P4 instead of the venerable Wave. :(
Ya know, I guess I can do some comparison photos later today. :tu:
The OHT is not a bad tool, but it really isn't comparable to the P4 in most aspects. IMO of course.
Post by: Syncop8r on June 02, 2019, 02:05:47 PM
I like the OHT.... :cry:
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 02, 2019, 03:20:22 PM
The OHT has one HUGE advantage over the P4. It can get really dirty and be used around metal filings and not need maintenance for months. The P4 suffers the same issue as SwissTools, as dirt gets in the pivots, the action gets exponentially stiffer and needs serious maintenance to work right again. The P4 can be disassembled though, so it has that going for it over riveted construction.
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 02, 2019, 04:26:06 PM
I'll shut up now and get to the copious photos.
(https://i.imgur.com/Dc7Xhqz.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/X7L1qsN.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/10Ppwlc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vYnkYpr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qRwzIAF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0JUjSlD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LSmTdmc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/212skfj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QT4dKBf.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/b7nNspX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hUfQHMm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oCviJWw.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/V2UgH4Y.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/QnCaq1X.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/af5nB6a.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zOmx9vL.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/XBMCLKu.jpg)
Post by: Syncop8r on June 02, 2019, 11:29:51 PM
I felt a comparison would be interesting since they are both all outside/one-handed opening multitools.
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 03, 2019, 03:11:41 AM
Thanks! :tu: The size difference is the most obvious thing. The only tool I find to be too short on the OHT is the saw, short drivers etc I can cope with. I'm surprised the P4's saw is nearly as short.:cheers:
I felt a comparison would be interesting since they are both all outside/one-handed opening multitools.
Post by: Raoul Octav on June 03, 2019, 07:38:49 AM
OHT deployment of tools is better, easyer.
Oht can receive Wave blades/file/saw at a cost (loose the opossite implement or loose the one hand opening for the opposite implement) .
Tool is big yet light in the hand. Pliers have spring, i observed this is a must for some people.
Free P is compact, good size, needs maintenace for ease of deployment of implements and some practicr in the beginning, way handyer while using YET whaaaaayyyy more expensive.
It depends on what you need it for.
Both are good tools.
Post by: basilio on June 03, 2019, 10:56:13 AM
Received it today
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2hga6qc.jpg)
Post by: McStitchy on June 03, 2019, 11:01:34 AM
Contacted Leatherman USA about the missing pocket clip for my P4.
Received it today
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2hga6qc.jpg)
Great service :tu:
Post by: gadgetman7 on June 03, 2019, 12:02:43 PM
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: basilio on June 03, 2019, 12:32:13 PM
Kind of funny they sent a bit for a tool that doesn’t have a bit driver.I think they were very kind, as I asked if they could provide me a wrench to install the pocket clip
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on June 03, 2019, 01:05:42 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 03, 2019, 02:26:31 PM
Kind of funny they sent a bit for a tool that doesn’t have a bit driver.It is funny, because you cannot use the tool you're putting the clip on, to put the clip on it. :pok: :D
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I'm always happy to have spare bits.
Sorry. Couldn't help myself. I'm kidding of course. :cheers:
Post by: basilio on June 03, 2019, 03:29:04 PM
Agreed. Question: did you buy the P4 via the LM USA web site?No, the tool was purchased in a shop here in Italy
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on June 03, 2019, 04:13:59 PM
Time to remind them, my related mail must have gone missing.
Post by: McStitchy on June 03, 2019, 05:54:32 PM
It is funny, because you cannot use the tool you're putting the clip on, to put the clip on it. :pok: :D
I'm always happy to have spare bits.
Sorry. Couldn't help myself. I'm kidding of course. :cheers:
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/AY42JB8OCAPIc/giphy.gif?cid=19f5b51a5cf5428f5a4d31436ba59412&rid=giphy.gif)
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 03, 2019, 08:16:32 PM
That made me laugh. Thank you. :)
:rofl:
Going on a tangent of a silly-philosophical nature, Leatherman did miss the point that; claiming a tool that cannot disassemble the tool it is intended to compete with is ridiculous, when the tool that in intended to be competed with can be used to disassemble the aforementioned tool. :dunno:
Post by: Mike 56 on June 03, 2019, 08:49:10 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: balvenie on June 03, 2019, 10:37:56 PM
No, the tool was purchased in a shop here in ItalyPlease tell me where
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 03, 2019, 10:41:07 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/NFV574H.jpg)
Post by: genevabuck on June 03, 2019, 11:22:19 PM
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on June 04, 2019, 12:03:16 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/q8td9bZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/K7cVJo4.jpg)
Guess the bit is part of the package, since I didn't ask for it. But I do think it's nice they send it along, not everyone is like us, with a collection of tools and the right tools to maintain them, I mean.
Thank you Leatherman U. S. A., it's nice to get a taste of that magnificent service we read about from all our American fellow MTO members, thank you :hatsoff:.
Post by: genevabuck on June 04, 2019, 02:04:50 AM
Got an envelope from Portland Oregon today :mail:.
(https://i.imgur.com/q8td9bZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/K7cVJo4.jpg)
Guess the bit is part of the package, since I didn't ask for it. But I do think it's nice they send it along, not everyone is like us, with a collection of tools and the right tools to maintain them, I mean.
Thank you Leatherman U. S. A., it's nice to get a taste of that magnificent service we read about from all our American fellow MTO members, thank you :hatsoff:.
Nice. I also contacted them about a clip. I hope they sent it. I never got a reply.
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 04, 2019, 06:30:30 AM
Got an envelope from Portland Oregon today :mail:.:like:
(https://i.imgur.com/q8td9bZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/K7cVJo4.jpg)
Guess the bit is part of the package, since I didn't ask for it. But I do think it's nice they send it along, not everyone is like us, with a collection of tools and the right tools to maintain them, I mean.
Thank you Leatherman U. S. A., it's nice to get a taste of that magnificent service we read about from all our American fellow MTO members, thank you :hatsoff:.
Very cool that has been rectified. :)
Same kit I recieved.
I also appreciated the extra screws. They're not as bad as watch screws and such, but if one were to back out in the pocket, you'd probably never find it. And if one fell onto shaggy carpet. :dwts:
Nice. I also contacted them about a clip. I hope they sent it. I never got a reply.I hope they sent one. I got a reply within a few minutes of emailing them, with them asking for my address. :)
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on June 04, 2019, 09:16:19 PM
Time to remind them, my related mail must have gone missing.
Well, the world is full of surprises...
Quote from: Leatherman Customer Service
Good Day!
I have made the request for the pocket clip to be sent out to you as a courtesy. You should be receiving that in the mail within the next 2 weeks.
Thanks for contacting Leatherman Tool Group and have a great day!
Xxxxx Yyyyyyyyyyy
Leatherman Tool Group
Consumer Support SpeSmurfpillst
:popcorn:
Post by: shadow78 on June 04, 2019, 10:45:28 PM
Got an envelope from Portland Oregon today :mail:.
(https://i.imgur.com/q8td9bZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/K7cVJo4.jpg)
Guess the bit is part of the package, since I didn't ask for it. But I do think it's nice they send it along, not everyone is like us, with a collection of tools and the right tools to maintain them, I mean.
Thank you Leatherman U. S. A., it's nice to get a taste of that magnificent service we read about from all our American fellow MTO members, thank you :hatsoff:.
I tried my luck today and they are sending me one as well ;) Good score Top Gear :tu:
Post by: Poncho65 on June 07, 2019, 12:47:58 AM
Great job LM with all of those clips as well :o :like:
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 07, 2019, 02:29:24 AM
Great comparison post with the OHT and the P, glbm :like::cheers:
Great job LM with all of those clips as well :o :like:
Post by: jorritvS on June 07, 2019, 01:29:07 PM
I always carried a surge on my belt but the P4 has gained that spot ever since. It isn't better then the surge. I don't know if they ever make something better. But it is definitely more beautiful, easier and more fun to use and play with it.
I do miss the bit driver definitely hope the "p6" will have it or that leatherman makes an adapter for it. I did notice that it you take a standard 1/4inch square to 1/4 inch hex it will almost perfectly fit onto the Phillips driver. The come with a lot of bit sets so most of you probably already have one.
The file works great but just like most I would like it bigger too. The best option for me would be to swap it with the serrated knife. First of all I don't use the serrated knife to much and when I use it the size of the file would be enough to be usable.
I think the awl does do it's job. But my personal preference would be to have it just like the surge awl. You will lose the flat screwdriver but I think they could have added it to the can opener just like sog or victorinox does. Especially if it was shaped like the one on the squirt that small 2d Philips and glasses driver combo works really great in my opinion. And has saved me a lot of times when other driver weren't strong or small enough.
Just my opinion on the tool. Overall I'm happy with it. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/92adfc6871ece761b9085f298a8cf134.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/7972d066a2d1d5921af35881043ed6e5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/b91d74c2859d7ad0a7308367962dc66c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/757be8ece0020c38a1e9064b502742fb.jpg)
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 07, 2019, 01:41:00 PM
Indeed, it is a joy to handle and use. And the file over serrated blade would be awesome. :iagree:
I am not too far from grinding a little bit off of the phillips shank to make it work better with bit adapters. I just get nervous about fiddling with such an expensive tool. :ahhh
Post by: jorritvS on June 07, 2019, 01:59:52 PM
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Post by: McStitchy on June 07, 2019, 05:20:46 PM
Welcome and congrats on the P4, jorritvS! Thank you for sharing! :cheers:
...
:iagree:
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 07, 2019, 06:54:09 PM
I didn't grind anything off for it to fit. I also wouldn't do that on a tool this expensive. It just fitted without any modification necessary. That is also why I like it and why I did share it.Thanks for clarifying! :cheers:
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Will have to dig through the spare parts bins this evening. :)
Post by: Mike 56 on June 08, 2019, 01:03:23 AM
Post by: Raoul Octav on June 23, 2019, 10:23:23 AM
The back latch came off position. Inspecting it closer, the sexbolt was reall loose, almost completely unscrew and the handels distanced themselves so the back latch came off position.
I never touched the P2, just the P4 i dissasembled completely. The P4 had loctite on all the sexbolts, yet this P2 seems it just smelled some loctite.
Post by: Raoul Octav on June 23, 2019, 10:28:00 AM
For safety reasons i checked the other part. Bolt was in place(not unscrewed) yet with the screwdriver it felt loose. Same thing, this one did not even smelled the loctite in the factory.
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 23, 2019, 10:31:26 AM
The P4 I use didn't have much, but I did need to heat it up to turn more freely, as there was a little on each screw thread.
I wonder if the assembly person just didn't bother using much, if any, loctite on Friday afternoon before close? :rofl:
Post by: Sam Lim on June 23, 2019, 03:08:04 PM
I think someone else had a P with little or no loctite on the screws? Sam I think? :think:
The P4 I use didn't have much, but I did need to heat it up to turn more freely, as there was a little on each screw thread.
I wonder if the assembly person just didn't bother using much, if any, loctite on Friday afternoon before close? :rofl:
Yeah I think that was me. I did feedback before sometime earlier. But being someone that cannot live with stock, I personally think it's somewhat better this way. That screw is really tiny. If it gets stuck with locktite somehow, it can break inside. Those that had experience with small pivot screws will know. Be it a Vic or juice. Most should experience some sort of breakage..
Post by: Mike 56 on June 23, 2019, 04:03:34 PM
:like: :cheers:
If anyone has an extra kick pocket clip pivot I trade one of my bedded P-2 bit adapters for it.
Post by: Raoul Octav on June 28, 2019, 01:19:41 PM
I have used the pliers and i have applied a small amount of force on the handles to hold something fermly( i had to unscrew an M10 bolt and i hold the nut with the pliers).
Interestingly, the pliers have become stiff, immediately i felt them to be too stiff to my likening and to what i have been used.
I applied some oil and opened and closed the pliers several times. This is affecting the easyness of closing the tool.
When it became slightly easy for the pliers to be opened, after several hundreds closing and opening, i squeezed the handles again, nothing in the jaws of the pliers, and again it became stiff.
WTF, something is not OK in the area of the Pliers PIVOT
Post by: McStitchy on June 28, 2019, 02:25:20 PM
It can go away after some time of use, however, I've read reports where it didn't seem to.
It can be that the pivot is slightly oval in shape (inside) which could introduce such behavior :dunno:
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 28, 2019, 02:48:12 PM
That happens sometimes to other LM models too.
It can go away after some time of use, however, I've read reports where it didn't seem to.
It can be that the pivot is slightly oval in shape (inside) which could introduce such behavior :dunno:
Sounds like warranty worthy, but maybe not possible after the mods? Yes, that had been an issue across the board with pliers.
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 28, 2019, 02:54:59 PM
After another week of use, today i observed an issue.This helped me immensely.
I have used the pliers and i have applied a small amount of force on the handles to hold something fermly( i had to unscrew an M10 bolt and i hold the nut with the pliers).
Interestingly, the pliers have become stiff, immediately i felt them to be too stiff to my likening and to what i have been used.
I applied some oil and opened and closed the pliers several times. This is affecting the easyness of closing the tool.
When it became slightly easy for the pliers to be opened, after several hundreds closing and opening, i squeezed the handles again, nothing in the jaws of the pliers, and again it became stiff.
WTF, something is not OK in the area of the Pliers PIVOT
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,33794.msg1952289.html#msg1952289
Post by: genevabuck on July 03, 2019, 03:53:43 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on July 10, 2019, 12:38:01 AM
I just tried the awl on my leather belt. I was a bit skeptical but it surprisingly punched right through it.
:like:
I also have had good luck drilling mid-size holes in wood to start screws. :)
Just can't start really small holes like can be done with a pointed awl.
Post by: aussieman on July 10, 2019, 09:41:05 AM
But very curious to see different parts being used for the scissors. The P4 scissors don't provide any resistance when opening for the first thirty degrees or so. The P2 ones snap back. You can see they changed the profile, and you can see this in action as you deploy the tool. The P4 scissors won't move the lock for some time.
The P4 is marked 04/19 and came with the new pocket clip. The P2 doesn't have a date stamp, both bought Amazon/Netrush in USA June 6.
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on July 10, 2019, 02:25:27 PM
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on July 10, 2019, 09:21:33 PM
Strange. On my P4 (no date stamp) the scissors are those in your P2 pic side. Seems they have modified the scissors on newer runs. Hang on to that P2, it might become rare :D
Same on my P4 (which does not have a date stamp, however, on the place where they put the date stamp on the "new" Free tools, mine says 1 2 1, only on the side of the phillips :think:).
Post by: gerleatherberman on July 14, 2019, 09:26:02 PM
The P4 clip LM sent came with an extra set of screws, so I used those just in case I sent a screw flying across a messy workshop.
I filed the slot out a little in the end of a clockmaker's pin vise to hold the machine screws while grinding and polishing. There really isn't another good way to hold these screws(they are so short) without damaging the threads, so be careful using anything to hold the screws. The soft steel of the pin vise and dispersion of surface contact(from filing the opening to seat the screw a bit better) did not damage the threads any.
Before.
(https://i.imgur.com/GLpucfo.jpg)
Pin vise with hole notched out.
(https://i.imgur.com/rTGwhPt.jpg)
Screw secured in pin vise.
(https://i.imgur.com/zI01JHx.jpg)
After spinning it against a fine grinding wheel.
(https://i.imgur.com/J9rlhzb.jpg)
Screws installed after some steel polishing to smooth the screw heads out.
(https://i.imgur.com/0garSDV.jpg)
Post by: JonesE on July 14, 2019, 11:22:07 PM
JonesE
Post by: gerleatherberman on July 15, 2019, 02:45:27 AM
GLBM, that looks good.Thank you, JonesE! :cheers:
JonesE
Now just gotta fix the work jeans pocket that the screws frayed. :facepalm:
Post by: SirVicaLot on July 15, 2019, 05:17:56 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on July 15, 2019, 05:43:41 AM
Good job glbm, let us know if this works better for your pants :tu:Thank you and will do, SirVic! :cheers:
Post by: SirVicaLot on July 15, 2019, 07:52:26 PM
Post by: JonesE on July 16, 2019, 01:27:42 AM
JonesE
Post by: bigraab1972 on August 27, 2019, 08:53:30 PM
This guy makes 4mm bit drivers for the free
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: matzesu on August 27, 2019, 09:01:20 PM
Whats the best way to carry this tool?? , In the Nylon Sheath that comes whit the Tool or in the „Rulerpocket“ ??
I can’t carry it like my Signal: horizontal clipped in the Beltloop whyle the Carabiner is also clipped in the near beltloop because it’s dosnt have a carabiner..
Is the Blade automatically locked??
Of is the Clip thought enough to clip the Tool on the Belt??
Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro
Post by: ZapWizard on August 27, 2019, 09:36:23 PM
One question as I’m about to be a P4 Owner too,
Whats the best way to carry this tool?? , In the Nylon Sheath that comes whit the Tool or in the „Rulerpocket“ ??
I can’t carry it like my Signal: horizontal clipped in the Beltloop whyle the Carabiner is also clipped in the near beltloop because it’s dosnt have a carabiner..
Is the Blade automatically locked??
Of is the Clip thought enough to clip the Tool on the Belt??
How you carry it is up to you and how you use your tool. But I do invite you to check out my custom fit holster design, it comes in a few different belt clips styles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06HWSQMVE9A
The blade is automatically locked when open. When close the blade is held in using tension from a spring acting on a cam. Your thumb overcomes the spring tension when deploying the blade.
The included clip is quite large, and would work on a belt, but the tool could easily twist sideways as the clip isn't very wide.
Post by: JustinCase on August 27, 2019, 10:47:06 PM
https://youtu.be/RrU_kSBGWFc
This guy makes 4mm bit drivers for the free
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
After adding the processing charges+shipping+tax, it comes up to almost $40 ::)..But I guess if you really need a 4mm driver and willing to spend the extra money and provide your own bits, it will be a good deal :popcorn:
Post by: matzesu on August 28, 2019, 06:40:41 PM
I think I put in on my Belt, ..
Makes a pretty good impression so far, I have to practice a bit whit this one hand mechanism,
The Pliers are pretty easy to open whit one hand, but I can’t close it whit one hand.. pix will follow..
Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk Pro
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/420e6bffa76131a000977e9383095da4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/6a7a5fc04a31134debe1c18d390074c8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/05b225205f7dcd0ee56fcfa6f4750168.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/3371d3c5fb6dffdfb365215000787d43.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/3cb11fdbc7a085ae6e3d59205aebf63f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/78822e363db529d97d5a875a9496dc61.jpg)
Post by: bigraab1972 on August 29, 2019, 10:39:55 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Raoul Octav on August 29, 2019, 10:53:46 AM
What i found and G confirmed, if you use the blunt wire cutter from the back of the pivot, to excert some pressure there, you'll be able to loosen the pliers to what it used to br. I have no explanation on why this happens, makes no logic on a round pivot
Post by: bigraab1972 on August 29, 2019, 11:29:30 AM
I had the same, and also Gearbltm.
What i found and G confirmed, if you use the blunt wire cutter from the back of the pivot, to excert some pressure there, you'll be able to loosen the pliers to what it used to br. I have no explanation on why this happens, makes no logic on a round pivot
Right now to loosen the pivot I push the handles in opposite directions perpendicular to the pivot. Are you referring to the hard wire cutter side or the crimper side of the pivot area? And how do you exert pressure there? Thanks for the reply!
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Post by: Raoul Octav on August 29, 2019, 11:34:32 AM
Post by: bigraab1972 on August 29, 2019, 11:42:37 AM
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Post by: Monrogue on September 25, 2019, 03:24:04 PM
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Post by: Wspeed on September 25, 2019, 03:39:52 PM
Post by: Aloha on September 25, 2019, 05:00:40 PM
Post by: Rapidray on September 25, 2019, 06:07:40 PM
Leatherman Germany was pretty fast, yesterday ordered, today surprisingly on my Desk..Great photos! Maybe it will close after you get the hang of doing it. One of those practice makes perfect thing. :tu:
I think I put in on my Belt, ..
Makes a pretty good impression so far, I have to practice a bit whit this one hand mechanism,
The Pliers are pretty easy to open whit one hand, but I can’t close it whit one hand.. pix will follow..
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/420e6bffa76131a000977e9383095da4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/6a7a5fc04a31134debe1c18d390074c8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/05b225205f7dcd0ee56fcfa6f4750168.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/3371d3c5fb6dffdfb365215000787d43.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/3cb11fdbc7a085ae6e3d59205aebf63f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/78822e363db529d97d5a875a9496dc61.jpg)
Post by: gerleatherberman on September 26, 2019, 07:30:54 AM
Nice ones matzesu and Monrogue :like: :tu::iagree:
Quite a cool multi! :multi:
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on September 26, 2019, 06:49:11 PM
Well I treated myself and now have a P4 on the way :)
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Great choice buddy :2tu:.
I really like my P4 (the fact that I bought a second one as backup for the collection speaks for itself, right?).
I've been using it as my EDC tool since April, and it handled everything I threw at it. I admit that I'm not a heavy user, but still...
The Free had a rough start when it was released, but despite the negativity, it's a good tool. If I was a heavy user I would probably prefer a Wave or Charge (and the Surge of I was an insane heavy user ;)). But for my needs, the Free is more than capable enough.
Anyway, you know we expect pics when your P4 arrives, right? :pok:
Post by: Monrogue on September 26, 2019, 07:04:00 PM
Great choice buddy :2tu:.
I really like my P4 (the fact that I bought a second one as backup for the collection speaks for itself, right?).
I've been using it as my EDC tool since April, and it handled everything I threw at it. I admit that I'm not a heavy user, but still...
The Free had a rough start when it was released, but despite the negativity, it's a good tool. If I was a heavy user I would probably prefer a Wave or Charge (and the Surge of I was an insane heavy user ;)). But for my needs, the Free is more than capable enough.
Anyway, you know we expect pics when your P4 arrives, right? :pok:
What, you getting a backup of a tool? Never heard of such a thing ::)
I’m far from a heavy user myself, and most days hardly use my MT beyond the knife, but my P2 has been good for anything I’ve needed so far, and easy access to everything is great. Really the P2 is sufficient, but I couldn’t resist having some extra fiddle factor the P4 provides ;)
Of course I will post some pics.....
Post by: Monrogue on September 27, 2019, 08:12:42 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/8b3124b27efb641b639bda4c527bd723.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/f4fde5007da76c6d91599d52812f4bad.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/94bf6a94458df45df1f2ba5a90c98cdd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/834f1a3071477ce7af389a5d420bd324.jpg)
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Post by: Wspeed on September 27, 2019, 08:18:33 PM
Post by: Rapidray on September 27, 2019, 08:25:49 PM
Ok just arrived. As I expected, I like it just as much as my P2 :). I’m curious though, why the serrated blade’s opening doesn’t stick out past the handle like the plain blade. Maybe to show one as the “main” blade? It would look a little better if both blades were flush with the handle edge. Also the chisel tip of the serrated is more rounded at the very top of the blade. Not sure if that’s the norm, but no big deal anyway.I like that you can access the tools without having to open the whole thing! Checked them out at Dicks Sporting store but all the MT’s are locked up and no one was around to help so I left without handling one! :facepalm:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/8b3124b27efb641b639bda4c527bd723.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/f4fde5007da76c6d91599d52812f4bad.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/94bf6a94458df45df1f2ba5a90c98cdd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/834f1a3071477ce7af389a5d420bd324.jpg)
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Post by: Monrogue on September 27, 2019, 08:44:44 PM
Post by: Wspeed on September 27, 2019, 09:28:49 PM
Post by: Rapidray on September 27, 2019, 09:33:19 PM
Post by: DeezNittles on September 28, 2019, 01:39:28 AM
I have a $100 LL Bean gift card and they just put the Free series online and I’m likely to burn my gift card to subsidize the cost, but wanted insight on the lanyard hole option first.
Thanks! :cheers:
Post by: Rapidray on September 28, 2019, 02:07:46 AM
I know they now ship the Free P4 with the pocket clip, but I am wondering if the original lanyard hole comes in the box as well?That would be a gift card well spent! :cheers:
I have a $100 LL Bean gift card and they just put the Free series online and I’m likely to burn my gift card to subsidize the cost, but wanted insight on the lanyard hole option first.
Thanks! :cheers:
Post by: gadgetman7 on September 28, 2019, 02:27:16 AM
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Post by: DeezNittles on September 28, 2019, 03:19:23 AM
The P series does now have a pocket clip.
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Yes, that I know. I was also wondering if the put the lanyard hole attachment in the box as well?
Post by: Monrogue on September 29, 2019, 11:25:57 PM
I know they now ship the Free P4 with the pocket clip, but I am wondering if the original lanyard hole comes in the box as well?
I have a $100 LL Bean gift card and they just put the Free series online and I’m likely to burn my gift card to subsidize the cost, but wanted insight on the lanyard hole option first.
Thanks! :cheers:
I did not see a lanyard hole with mine. I was expecting to have to remove that and install the clip myself, but was pleasantly surprised to see the clip came attached.
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on October 21, 2019, 06:06:28 PM
Why is it that when I spend say 4 days in the LA area I cannot simply go out and smurfing buy a LM Free P4 off the shelf? In general retail it seems they are still very rare. All the usual suspects (REI, Dicks, Home Depot) generously allow me to order or reserve one online for delivery or pickup... no earlier than at least 8 days from now. Seems I shall have to order from back home then... ::)
OK, rant over. The reason why I want to purchase a second P4 is that it seems my first is from the early, undated batch, which one can speculate might become collectible, and I'd love to have a P4 with a couple of ZapWizard's mods in it >:D
Post by: parnass on October 22, 2019, 04:50:34 PM
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on October 22, 2019, 05:40:29 PM
Post by: LoopCutter on October 24, 2019, 10:07:08 PM
I meant a usage comparison.You know that there is a OHT 30 day challenge planned for November? ,your views and experience would be most welcome. It is list under BONECRUSHER. See ya there Nov 1.
I like the OHT.... :cry:
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Post by: LoopCutter on October 24, 2019, 10:12:15 PM
Lucky you... the REI and Dick's I checked personally yesterday (just to eliminate stocking error related false negatives) all only had P2s, T models and the 'legacy' items in-store. Bummer. Well, as I said, a first world problem :DIf visiting state side, Lowe’s started stocking the Free series as well as Sportman’s Warehouse.
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Post by: Dutch_Tooler on October 24, 2019, 10:16:46 PM
:cheers:
Post by: gerleatherberman on October 25, 2019, 02:04:49 AM
Thanks Loopcutter, I'll keep it in mind for next time - I've left the States and ordered one from home already :D:like:
:cheers:
Hope it gets to you soon!
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on October 30, 2019, 07:58:19 AM
Date stamped 05/19. Shapeways order for ZapWizard's bit driver is out, but it's not due to arrive until late November. Oh well...
Post by: Happy Gilmore on October 30, 2019, 01:05:19 PM
Post by: Rapidray on October 30, 2019, 02:00:29 PM
:mail:Nice photo! :tu:
Date stamped 05/19. Shapeways order for ZapWizard's bit driver is out, but it's not due to arrive until late November. Oh well...
Post by: HarleyXJGuy on October 30, 2019, 02:10:10 PM
Post by: HarleyXJGuy on October 30, 2019, 03:16:43 PM
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/HarleyXJGuy/Knives/Knives%202/0741457F-962C-4608-95D3-36CBF49E15AC.jpg) (http://s70.photobucket.com/user/HarleyXJGuy/media/Knives/Knives%202/0741457F-962C-4608-95D3-36CBF49E15AC.jpg.html)
Now for something that might actually be helpful.
The P4 will fit into a Skinth Large Shield. Just the littlest bit tight closing the flap but my Skinth has had a Spirit in it for two years or so and probably needs to adjust itself some to the longer P4. To be clear it is in now way hard to close.
(http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i86/HarleyXJGuy/Knives/Knives%202/4A472638-2DFF-4AA7-BB35-1E73BEA7CB01.jpg) (http://s70.photobucket.com/user/HarleyXJGuy/media/Knives/Knives%202/4A472638-2DFF-4AA7-BB35-1E73BEA7CB01.jpg.html)
Post by: Wspeed on October 30, 2019, 03:34:02 PM
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on October 30, 2019, 05:47:38 PM
Ok so has anyone tried to use the Leatherman Removable Bit Driver on the Free?
Hmmm... doesn't fit. Which is why I want a bit driver inside.
Welcome to the club :tu:
Post by: HarleyXJGuy on October 30, 2019, 10:16:54 PM
Hmmm... doesn't fit. Which is why I want a bit driver inside.
Welcome to the club :tu:
To bad. Was worth a try I suppose.
Wonder if LM will release something that fits the Free driver.
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on October 31, 2019, 08:48:42 AM
Post by: jorritvS on October 31, 2019, 09:11:12 AM
For now, a standard 1/4 square driver fits the Philips screwdriver. Therefore you can use a 1/4 square to 1/4 hex adapter to use standard bits.
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Post by: Dutch_Tooler on October 31, 2019, 09:50:39 AM
Post by: jorritvS on October 31, 2019, 03:02:31 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/92adfc6871ece761b9085f298a8cf134.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/7972d066a2d1d5921af35881043ed6e5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/b91d74c2859d7ad0a7308367962dc66c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/757be8ece0020c38a1e9064b502742fb.jpg)
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Posted these pictures before. No play in up/down directions. There is side play unfortunately best seen in the last picture, but it is still usable.
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Post by: Dutch_Tooler on November 01, 2019, 10:52:44 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzOFE0b4pvY
Post by: Rapidray on November 01, 2019, 01:44:54 PM
Post by: jorritvS on November 01, 2019, 02:30:18 PM
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Post by: Dutch_Tooler on November 02, 2019, 04:59:54 PM
Post by: Mike 56 on November 02, 2019, 08:01:46 PM
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Post by: Mike 56 on November 02, 2019, 08:06:22 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191102/0369b3b719af8a7e5fb4f84713137e2f.jpg)
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Post by: Rapidray on November 02, 2019, 10:16:27 PM
I've noted some similarities between the P4's package opener and the Swisstool Spirit's chisel thing. Once ZapWizard's bit driver arrives I might copy some of the Spirit features on the package opener, since that won't have to double as a medium flat screwdriver anymore :D:like: :cheers:
Post by: Rapidray on November 02, 2019, 10:16:57 PM
I made mine out of a 1/4 adapter I put a magnet in it and bedded it with J B Weld so it stays on by itself. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191102/c0e0e3ec137ee7d4561bdc01347d6f13.jpg)Nice work around! :tu:
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Post by: Rapidray on November 02, 2019, 10:17:50 PM
Here is a pic of the inside of the adapterI like your solution :tu:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191102/0369b3b719af8a7e5fb4f84713137e2f.jpg)
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Post by: HarleyXJGuy on November 03, 2019, 03:53:03 PM
I made mine out of a 1/4 adapter I put a magnet in it and bedded it with J B Weld so it stays on by itself. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191102/c0e0e3ec137ee7d4561bdc01347d6f13.jpg)
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So how does this work? I send you my address and you send one to me?
Post by: Mike 56 on November 03, 2019, 11:15:50 PM
So how does this work? I send you my address and you send one to me?
I put a small supper magnet in the square side of the adapter fill it with J-B Weld spray your tool screwdriver with pam cooking spray as a release agent and put your tool screwdriver in the J-B Weld and let sit overnight. remove it in the morning. It will be an exact fit. I have done with swiss army knives and a Wingman. PM me your address and I will send you one.
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on November 08, 2019, 05:51:34 PM
Post by: Wspeed on November 08, 2019, 05:54:04 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on November 09, 2019, 02:46:58 AM
Post by: parnass on December 09, 2019, 11:57:03 AM
Post by: Philabuster on December 09, 2019, 02:24:07 PM
I haven't seen a Free P4 in person. The frame of the Free P4 looks like it is fairly symmetrical. Is it symmetrical enough to swap the individual tools around to make a version for left handers?
The smooth knife blade and the scissors could be swapped for each other to make the main knife blade open with the left hand. The serrated blade is already setup for left handed opening.
Edit: I am a righty so the left handed opening serrated blade bothered me so I swapped it to the saw position and reassembled it just now. Works fine. :woohoo:
Post by: Rapidray on December 09, 2019, 03:24:17 PM
The smooth knife blade and the scissors could be swapped for each other to make the main knife blade open with the left hand. The serrated blade is already setup for left handed opening.Nice switch :like:
Edit: I am a righty so the left handed opening serrated blade bothered me so I swapped it to the saw position and reassembled it just now. Works fine. :woohoo:
Post by: Poncho65 on December 09, 2019, 05:27:52 PM
Post by: parnass on December 10, 2019, 04:43:22 AM
Post by: Philabuster on December 12, 2019, 05:13:33 PM
I understand LM designed it that way so the blade would be locked into the handles when the pliers are used, but does the chisel tip shape serve any practical purpose otherwise? I'm not really liking it. I'm on the fence about just grinding an angled sheep's foot profile on the end of the blade to make it more useful. The spring tension on the lock release seems to keep the blade in place enough by itself for me.
Post by: israelpiper on December 16, 2019, 06:40:27 PM
It came with the clip. In short supply here despite the high price. Minus the local VAT, I paid USD171 equivalent in shekels. But I prefer to inspect my multitools carefully, in hand, which I can do in an outdoors shop. And I don't get the wrong tool, or have shipping charges. Almost all the shops that carry multitools were out of the P4 already. They came in, and out they went. A lot of Moms and Dads give multitools to their kids when they are conscripted at age 18. Probably more to sons than daughters. I suspect the Free P4s are on green webbing belts already. Though I'd say that the Surge is best for a soldier, personally.
Anyway, I swore I would pass the Free P4 by. The magnetic attraction got to me. The bugger already took first blood. (Thumb healing nicely.) So I can say, it was shipped sharp!
I thought I would hate the awl, but I don't. I work mostly in pine, so I am ok there. Even the little file is better than the stories of of being Wingmanish or Sidekickian. Scissors: good enough! Better than the mini scissors on the Wave and the Charge. Saw: works well.
Lock-up: tight.
Won't replace my Surge in bushcrafting, but a decent bit of kit, with some tight engineering.
My very short-term commentary. A tidy little fidget spanner.
Post by: Wspeed on December 16, 2019, 06:59:02 PM
Post by: Rapidray on December 16, 2019, 07:36:37 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on December 17, 2019, 02:22:54 AM
Post by: israelpiper on December 21, 2019, 08:15:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/e9mXtE0.jpg)
Still awkward to open tools from some positions, but ok, possible. Not as intuitively useable and fluid as claimed, but ok. I don't sit around flipping MTs, so I may take a while, but ok.
I do question the ruler, which for me is a good quick way to measure for bolts and other smaller fasteners, and small depths. The whole world uses the metric system, which is shortchanged in this design with a partial ruler, and a useless diagram indicating the wire stripper. The English or Imperial measures dominate, yet only 4 or 5% of the world uses them. At least they should have given equal clarity to the metric measures. Even countries other than the US, of British origin, use and understand metric measure and often make tools and supplies and mechanical and engineering plans in metric. And besides, many engineers, mechanics, tool-users and scientific and technical professions in the US do know the metric system. Sloppy Leatherman! World sales are an ever-growing percentage of your market. Even tiny Israel in far-off Asia has a Leatherman warranty centre and representative (of sorts). Perhaps few care for any tiny ruler, but I love the ability to measure small fasteners and shallow depths.
Too many flathead openers, which are too thin. I would have liked a beefier awl, and no can opener. I love the Victorinox can opener, but I use it as a mini-blade in small scale woodcraft. Very few cans need an opener anymore. And I almost never buy those. The file does work, but, for many It is too small. However, I would not give up the serrated knife. Most people so automatically say, "not a fan of serrated blades." I use it for boxes, card stock, rope and string, cloth etc. Keeps the straight blade sharp. A smaller serrated utility blade would have been ok, but with that chisel tip still. As with 99% of MT owners, I don't attend road accidents and have to extricate anyone from a jammed seat belt. If I prepared for contingencies beyond a reasonable point, I'd have to lug around a 40k rucksack, and never take off my aluminium headgear, or garlic necklace, in public.
Otherwise, I do like the P4. The grey belt sheath will get dirty quickly no doubt. Would have preferred black, but ok. Now is just to see how the tool wears over time, and to stay out of metal shops and ferrous particulate. Durability--only time and use will tell. Meanwhile LM moddies are no doubt gearing up to develop bit-driver adapters for the Free P4. I have bit-drivers on my Waves, my Surge, my Skeletools, and maybe others. I wanted a stand-alone with no extra parts to carry with the Free P4--so no bit-driver doesn't chafe me. I like the tight, minimalist sheath, aside from the grey colour.
Overall, a B+ tool. Subject to future elevation or demotion. Some great engineering--if the P4 proves durable.
Post by: Rapidray on December 21, 2019, 02:57:40 PM
Post by: israelpiper on January 06, 2020, 08:31:26 PM
I could just squeeze harder when using the P4. An answer if sorts. It contrasts with the balanced hand-feel of the Wave. Perhaps I will get used to the differences, I don't know.
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on January 30, 2020, 09:47:30 PM
Post by: Rapidray on January 30, 2020, 09:56:55 PM
:whistle:Vice one :like: :cheers:
Post by: Max Stone on January 30, 2020, 11:03:23 PM
Been bothering me all week. Something did not feel right about the hand-feel and balance of the Free P4. Especially compared to the Wave. The P4 in plier position is wanting to slip dow and out of my grip. Opening and closing the plier head feels insecure and awkward. The Wave feels balanced, and does not tend to slip. The Wave can be manipulated without losing position in my hand.:iagree:
I could just squeeze harder when using the P4. An answer if sorts. It contrasts with the balanced hand-feel of the Wave. Perhaps I will get used to the differences, I don't know.
Handles are too long so the ends don’t rest in the back of the palm like the Wave without wanting to fall fwd, and too many hot spots at the ends. While I appreciate the technology put into Free, my P2 does not get carried. :facepalm:
Post by: tbateman on February 02, 2020, 04:27:51 AM
What is the general consensus regarding the serrated blade tip shape on the P4? ???
I understand LM designed it that way so the blade would be locked into the handles when the pliers are used, but does the chisel tip shape serve any practical purpose otherwise? I'm not really liking it. I'm on the fence about just grinding an angled sheep's foot profile on the end of the blade to make it more useful. The spring tension on the lock release seems to keep the blade in place enough by itself for me.
Hi, You can punch through things like drywall with the chisel end serrated blade (even twist it like an awl through plywood) and then go in with the saw to continue cutting. The serrated blade and saw have almost the exact same profile.
One of my favorite things about the Free series is how quickly I can close the blades with one hand. I have 4 kids running around always wanting to help. It's nice to be able to put the blade away quickly.
Post by: Poncho65 on February 02, 2020, 05:20:07 AM
Post by: Max Stone on March 10, 2020, 08:52:33 PM
Post by: Wspeed on March 10, 2020, 10:50:29 PM
Especially for the price that they are :facepalm:
Post by: Poncho65 on March 11, 2020, 03:24:09 AM
Post by: AimlessWanderer on March 11, 2020, 11:36:22 AM
Post by: SteveC on March 11, 2020, 01:03:53 PM
Post by: tango44 on March 11, 2020, 02:15:02 PM
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,84134.0.html (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,84134.0.html)
Post by: comis on March 12, 2020, 11:49:28 AM
There is a lot of problems out there with the pliers, I dont understand why Leatherman keeps sending out those tools all over the world:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,84134.0.html (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,84134.0.html)
I think if you live in US and don't mind to the hassle of keep on sending it back, P2/P4 may worth a try. But for those users living overseas, local dealers may or may not exchange a new one for you, and utilizing that warranty may mean weeks, if not months without a tool. :facepalm:
Post by: Aloha on March 12, 2020, 03:05:39 PM
The cost will add up since it maybe that each tool received under warranty will have same issues unless they address the problem :dunno:.
Post by: Mcfal12 on April 09, 2020, 04:23:47 AM
Look like you also have the large bit adapter from ZapWizard installed. Very cool!
Post by: flashpoint on May 16, 2020, 09:11:16 PM
I m David froma Barcelona/Spain.
I got a wave and a Surge. There are a lot of reviews and threats around forums saying Victorinox Spirit and Swistool are heaven. At the end I believe it and buy one.
I bought a Free P4 , new series. P4 has out of the box clip and some better features.
Let me insert a review. I should apologize myself for my english.
After testing Vic Spirit / Leatherman Wave and Surge. P4 comes with another air. I choose Surge, this is the way. It is more robust and everything it carries works, is in place and is strong. But it weighs a lot. The Wave is almost identical, but smaller. For my hand, when squeezing the pliers, it stucks , because the handle is not chamfered, edges come out ... great failure. With Surge it does not happen. The Spirit is the best made and is compact and useful. But removing the tools with your fingernails, in a hurry, or with one hand ... Inviable. I returned it. It s for romantics who will use it without haste. FREE P4 arrives: It's all at one hand. Let me explain better . You has the serrated eyelet and the scissors at left hand position. P4 sizes perfect , weighs 95gr less than the Surge and does not bother to carry it. Everything is pulled out from the outside with one hand and you can ge them fast. The unlock method is even better. 1) On one side it mounts two thick and consistent tools, a Phillips and a flat with a sharp side, "package opener"; if they had imitated 95% what Spirit carries, it would have been a success. It doesn't quite cut well ... For those who say that the FREE series internal tools are flimsy, look at THE FIFTH AND SIXTH PHOTOS P4 has thicher tools. These two are the ones that seem well done and well thought out to me. 2) On the other side, it carries a corkscrew:) (is it horrible, does anyone use it in 2020? They have not the thickness and hardness that we know in other models. GREAT FAILURE. It would be much better if they had put less tools and would be better done. As on the other side. 3) The 4 main blades are better than the Wave. Better knife, similar saw, better scissors and serrated blade : The SURGE vs FREE P4 pliers , TWO LAST PHOTOS, are seen to be larger in the Surge, of course. But the cutting surface of the P4 is ALL usable. The Surge, the tip curves a lot, there is no continuity. When you use it with precision you skip that area, because you don't have enough control. It doesn't know where on the curve you are cutting. The angle is very clear with the P4, because it is very linear. The serrated blade will cut the same as with the large one. I have found no difference. Cutting thick cloth or rope with them does not change anything. There are no 9cm diameter ropes that I bump into ... PHOTO 2, IMPORTANT POINT, I have seen comparisons that showed images that the Wave and Surge gave a lot of shank in the opening and angle of the pliers. WHAT HAPPENED? my unit has a built-in clip as standard. It is the improved version of last year's. Basically they polish the failures of the first batch ... it happens with everything, but it is not said. The US forums complained a lot that if you tightened the pliers when cutting something thick, for example. Then the mechanism lost its finesse. Well, in this version it is already fixed. The photo shows that they have done something with the pliers AND HAVE ALREADY IMPROVED THEM IN EVERYTHING, opening included. For me it is the perfect piece. . The advantage of the magnet closure, it really likes it, it works very well. And you save having to open the part to access the tools. The one who shuffled the supplies inside was wrong. Many loyal brand users are furious. And they won't come out of Surge or Chargge TTI. The Surge is very heavy, it is to be used at work and left there. Almost all of us have the set of tips, which of course, we are going to carry together, more weight ... The P4 is to be carried on top. Innovation is valued and the main 4 sheets are fine. And the 2 tools of good thickness on one side, too. The 4 of the other no. I bought it because it was € 125, if it had not happened. Do I advise her? for those who have a cult of the tool or fans of the brand. It can always be carried and does not bother and can do 80% of the things that a Surge is not bad. In addition, now it has a series clip and they have solved the error of closing the pliers with force. The truth is that with one I would have enough, I couldn't help but keep both of them. Cheers
Post by: Poncho65 on May 17, 2020, 01:47:58 AM
Also, I am not seeing any pics that you are referring to :think:
Post by: flashpoint on May 17, 2020, 11:01:14 AM
Post by: flashpoint on May 17, 2020, 11:02:42 AM
Post by: Poncho65 on May 17, 2020, 03:56:02 PM
Post by: Dutch_Tooler on May 18, 2020, 09:19:19 PM
@ Dutch_Tooler, is that the standard tool adapter or the universal?
Look like you also have the large bit adapter from ZapWizard installed. Very cool!
Oops, only saw this just now. That is the universal one.
Post by: brab on May 27, 2020, 01:07:05 AM
I have had my P4 for a couple of months now and I am impressed with the overall quality of the tool. It is a precision mechanism but from a functional standpoint, my personal preferences deviate somewhat from the tool as it is currently designed.
Before I purchased the P4, my EDC was the Leatherman Charge Titanium and I am still torn, whether to carry the P4 or the Charge. One thing about the Charge is that both the regular knife blade and serrated blade are diagonally opposite one another and both blades have an increased blade height, that is from the cutting edges to the back side of the blade, at the thumb aperture, which enables access so that the thumb conveniently and naturally slips against it making the one hand opening easily accomplished and the 180 degree opposition means you simply rotate the tool in your hand 180 degrees to access either blade.
Leatherman didn't similarly position the blades on the P4 and the serrated blade does not have the increased height to the thumb aperture. The first thing I did was to reposition the serrated blade diagonally opposite the regular blade but because it does not have the increased blade height and thumb aperture position, the serrated blade is not as easy to open with one hand. So I would suggest to Leatherman that they position the blades diagonally opposite one another and increase the height of the serrated blade for easier access to the thumb aperture for easier one handed opening. In a heads up to ZapWizard, I ordered 4 of his 3d printed, one hand thumb assist inserts. They engage the thump apertures and though not really required on the main blade, one such insert is extremely useful for one handed opening of the serrated blade.
Two other suggestions I have are that the omission of the bit holder was a mistake. You are limited to one size of Phillips screwdriver and so smaller Phillips screws are outside the reach of the P4 also other bits such as Torx and Allen are extremely useful. Also, the very small screwdriver tool was omitted, which accommodates a flat head and Phillips screwdriver at the opposite end, useful for work on eyeglasses and other very small screws. This very small screwdriver is also useful for clearing small orifices in nozzles or other such openings.
See pics.
Post by: Syncop8r on June 07, 2020, 11:10:24 AM
Post by: Rocket surgery on June 11, 2020, 12:59:59 PM
I forget, does the Removable Bit Driver work on a P2/P4? :think:
From what I have seen you need one of the old universal adapters (which one I can't tell you :dunno: ), or a 1/4 socket over the Philips and flat/package opener. If you go the second route then the edge of your package opener will get ruined mighty quick.
If your not against modding your tool the Zappwizard has released a flat bit holder on shapways. It takes the place of the Philips and flat (or others if your willing to do some tool switching). I'm waiting for one as we speak, along with the T-shank adapter :mail:
Post by: FreeToCharge on July 15, 2020, 11:54:11 PM
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: parnass on July 16, 2020, 05:36:59 AM
Post by: Chako on July 16, 2020, 03:10:26 PM
Post by: FreeToCharge on July 17, 2020, 05:22:07 AM
Wow. After reading this whole thread, I am sort of happy I haven't bought a P4 yet. Trying to justify the almost $200 dollar Canadian price tag...and this thread did that concept no good.With the price being $200 Canadian I can't blame you but I would still think about it if you can get it for less since it really is a great tool.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: Max Stone on July 20, 2020, 09:04:42 PM
The Free P4 is my favorite multitool. I enjoy using it, chiefly due to its ease of deployment. My P4 pliers don't have the problem that some other have reported and I am sympathetic with those owners who expected better QC. However, I think much of the other criticism about the P4 is undeserved.It deserves most of it. Let me know when you master the one hand tool opening, get used to the palm hotspots on the handle ends and find a use for a 1” rule or file. It does not have many fans on this forum. >:(
Post by: FreeToCharge on July 20, 2020, 09:23:14 PM
It deserves most of it. Let me know when you master the one hand tool opening, get used to the palm hotspots on the handle ends and find a use for a 1” rule or file. It does not have many fans on this forum. >:(You may be one if the few who has that many grievances with the tool actually. One hand tool opening is quite easy and did not really take much if any time to get the hang of. Palm hotspots arent a thing, it is just as comfortable as nearly any other leatherman I've used. Holding it differently? I'll give you the ruler is quite laughable but the flat head on that tool works well. The file is small especially in comparison to other Multitools (except maybe the wingman?) But is aggressive and works well when need something quick. I'm sorry you dont feel the same. I feel from an open mind. It is a great tool for what it is and quick, one handed use of everything.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: parnass on July 20, 2020, 09:36:10 PM
It deserves most of it. Let me know when you master the one hand tool opening, get used to the palm hotspots on the handle ends and find a use for a 1” rule or file. It does not have many fans on this forum. >:(
Max, in another topic you posted that you had a Free P2. I have a Free P4 and no problem with hot spots. The P2 and P4 have different frames. The P4 is wider and its frame edges are rolled smoothly along the entire length when using the pliers. The narrower P2 frame has a sharp, non rolled edge on one side of the frame near the pliers head.
Perhaps these differences account for a difference in comfort.
I am left handed and one hand opening tools are usually designed for right handed users. I am able to open the tools with my right hand, but it is awkward.
Post by: Max Stone on July 20, 2020, 10:33:27 PM
Post by: kottskrapa on July 21, 2020, 10:41:26 AM
And if so, it's a fairly good size?
[It's not failure if you learn something from it]
Post by: McStitchy on July 21, 2020, 02:41:59 PM
It deserves most of it. Let me know when you master the one hand tool opening, get used to the palm hotspots on the handle ends and find a use for a 1” rule or file. It does not have many fans on this forum. >:(
I've tried out the P2 and P4 in a local shop (took my time for it). I cannot get used to the one hand opening of the inner tools. For me "personally" there is no advantage coming off that magnet feature :dunno:
I also dislike the "awl" or the length of the file.
These are not for me.
...oh... and I prefer the old style can/bottle opener :pommel:
Post by: FreeToCharge on July 21, 2020, 03:24:28 PM
I was thinking about the ruler.. It's small and redicoulous if you compare it to a "normal" ruler.. But what's the intended purpose? I don't have any of the free tools but I saw some commercials for it when advertising it for when doing mechanical stuff and only have one hand free to operate the tool and if that's the case isn't the ruler long enough to measure a bolt or spacing between stuff in tight areas, or to get a general feel for how big nut you need or something along those lines?Good point and way of looking at it. I hadn't really considered it that way but in that case the ruler is useful for these types of tasks. After all, multitools really are not meant to take the place of full size, dedicated tools.
And if so, it's a fairly good size?
[It's not failure if you learn something from it]
McStitchy I'm sorry it doesn't work well for you. No tool is right for everyone. The magnets work really well for me and for my uses to access the tools quickly, easily, and one handed.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Post by: Chako on August 13, 2020, 03:56:36 AM
Post by: SteveC on August 13, 2020, 01:36:57 PM
Post by: FreeToCharge on August 13, 2020, 06:18:49 PM
I finally got to handle a P2 at a local sports store. I have to say that I was not impressed at all with it.Its interesting cause I've heard more negative from the P2 than the P4. Love my P4 for my uses. Has come in handier for quick tasks than my Charge.
Congrats Chako! Hope you like yours.
Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk
Post by: Monrogue on August 16, 2020, 06:37:23 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on August 17, 2020, 09:47:54 PM
I finally got to handle a P2 at a local sports store. I have to say that I was not impressed at all with it.
its sad when I can find them right now for $80 and still not interested...all they had to do...all they had to do! Was get independent feedback. No way they handed that tool to someone who actually has a critical viewpoint before production.
Post by: Chako on August 17, 2020, 09:51:15 PM
Post by: FreeToCharge on August 18, 2020, 03:03:58 AM
its sad when I can find them right now for $80 and still not interested...all they had to do...all they had to do! Was get independent feedback. No way they handed that tool to someone who actually has a critical viewpoint before production.What exactly is your issues with the tool? I love mine and has worked well for almost everything I've thrown at it and I do a range of different things through my day which I use it for.
Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk
Post by: Chako on August 18, 2020, 03:50:48 PM
Post by: McStitchy on August 18, 2020, 04:22:40 PM
Post by: Chako on August 18, 2020, 04:49:41 PM
Post by: Chako on August 18, 2020, 07:11:45 PM
Post by: McStitchy on August 18, 2020, 07:23:33 PM
Post by: FreeToCharge on August 19, 2020, 03:36:12 AM
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Post by: Chako on August 19, 2020, 03:39:58 AM
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,85314.0.html
Post by: Poncho65 on September 17, 2020, 12:21:47 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Egz5LY8h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/yEWi7Mrh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/hF77zvih.jpg)
Hope to add the P4 sometime down the line as well :cheers:
Post by: Max Stone on September 17, 2020, 08:06:47 AM
Post by: Chako on September 17, 2020, 12:11:55 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50282918327_960930f149_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jBk6MH)IMG_9156A (https://flic.kr/p/2jBk6MH) by Chako (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187039850@N04/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50282917887_470e071f1f_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jBk6E8)IMG_9157A (https://flic.kr/p/2jBk6E8) by Chako (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187039850@N04/), on Flickr
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50282759416_141354b8cd_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jBjhxS)IMG_9159A (https://flic.kr/p/2jBjhxS) by Chako (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187039850@N04/), on Flickr
I thought the P2 would be much smaller than the P4. I was wrong.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50282916942_cd9b65089f_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2jBk6nQ)IMG_9160A (https://flic.kr/p/2jBk6nQ) by Chako (https://www.flickr.com/photos/187039850@N04/), on Flickr
Post by: Poncho65 on September 17, 2020, 12:45:15 PM
Welcome Poncho, look forward to your objective feedback... :popcorn:
I may carry it for a week or so and see what I think about it :think: I use the LM flat bits quite often and this doesn't work with those, so... :shrug: :D
I will try to give it a chance though ;) I do like the way it flips open thought :mn:
:D
Post by: Poncho65 on September 17, 2020, 12:45:34 PM
Post by: Chako on September 17, 2020, 07:35:42 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on September 18, 2020, 01:03:48 AM
Post by: FreeToCharge on September 18, 2020, 06:04:15 AM
Sent from my SM-G981U1 using Tapatalk
Post by: Aloha on September 18, 2020, 03:23:31 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on September 18, 2020, 05:48:50 PM
:nanadance: :nanadance:
Post by: Monrogue on September 22, 2020, 02:44:16 PM
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Post by: Poncho65 on September 22, 2020, 06:29:32 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on September 22, 2020, 06:30:13 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on September 22, 2020, 08:30:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/f1QIKpSh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/S8rAKnfh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/IrJojI1h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0YDIPpdh.jpg)
I knew that the blades were different sizes but had no idea it was that much of a difference :ahhh I do wish it had a PE Blade vs the combo blade but I may get a few parts to mod it :whistle: :think: :D
It seems like an OK carry so far and I do like how it flips open :like: but I believe the Charge/Wave format has ut beat :think: I am going to carry it the rest of the week and see how it goes :salute:
Post by: Chako on September 22, 2020, 11:43:37 PM
Post by: GearedForwards on September 23, 2020, 12:36:27 AM
I do not have a T4 yet. Curious to see how you get along with it.
I got my T4 in last week and I'm really enjoying it (no where near as thick as I thought and the one hand opening tools is actually very nice and useful). The only issue I have with it is the knife blade, it's incredibly difficult to deploy one handed using the hole (it can be done, but it's more than a little rough on the thumb) and the dreadful sqeak it makes about 40% of the time. I'm pretty sure this is because of the magnet retention system, so I'm not sure if oiling it will solve the issue and as the one hand opening nubs are the locking surface I'm not sure if iwant to try oiling :think:
Post by: Chako on September 23, 2020, 12:53:33 AM
Post by: Poncho65 on September 23, 2020, 02:49:22 AM
I don't have the squeaking sound in mine at all :salute: The knife is harder to deploy in it vs the P2 as well :dunno: I am okish with the 2D Phillips but rather have a full 3D one or a bit driver :salute:
Post by: Chako on September 24, 2020, 12:49:26 AM
Post by: Poncho65 on September 27, 2020, 08:32:58 PM
Missing a good file and saw on this for sure :ahhh wished it had a PE Blade as well :cry: :D I do :like: the flipping of it and the pliers themselves are pretty good as well :tu: I may very well sharpen the awl to get proper one vs the screwdriver ended factory one :facepalm: :D Overall a good tool but I think I would rather have a P4 :think: :cheers:
Well actually I would rather have a Wave format tool or the Rebar format tool :whistle: :D
Post by: SteveC on September 28, 2020, 01:41:38 PM
Post by: McStitchy on September 28, 2020, 05:10:35 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on September 28, 2020, 06:43:06 PM
:D
Post by: Syncop8r on September 28, 2020, 08:59:31 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on September 29, 2020, 02:20:51 AM
Post by: Chako on October 05, 2020, 02:23:07 AM
Post by: Max Stone on October 06, 2020, 05:47:11 PM
Post by: Time22 on October 30, 2020, 01:56:00 AM
Rebar Awl
Wave / Charge can opener / wire stripper (or add wire stripper to current can opener)
Wave / Charge type ruler
&
Removable Bit Driver designed for Free series tools
—-
Redesign those tools on the saw / serrated knife side
And perhaps a Wave style file instead of the Saw
In other words, I joined the club
Post by: Max Stone on October 30, 2020, 04:02:06 PM
We look forward to your feedback after a little bit of carry & use. :cheers:
Post by: Pilosopo on November 21, 2020, 04:13:37 PM
Doing some electrical around the house reinforced how great these tools are when in actual use. Cycling through tools with one hand while holding something in the other is just brilliant.
For this job, the reamer/small flat head fit perfect into the back of the old switches and sockets to free the wiring. The ruler/wire stripper had no issues removing more insulation. Switched effortlessly to the pliers to bend the loop for the new switches/outlets. Switched to the phillips driver and then finally to the file/flathead to reinstall.
I now own multiple Leatherman tools now... PST/PST II, Supertool/Supertool 300, Crunch, Skeletool, Charge + BO/G10, modified Rebars, bit kits and extenders, etc. When I'm actually planning to get work done around the house, I grab the Free P4. If I'm headed out and don't have a bag or holster, I grab the Free P2 and pocket carry it.
I attached photos comparing them to my Skeletool as well, thick and thin side of the Skeletool and the profile. The Free P2 cast almost the same shadow as the Skeletool, and though heavier, has scissors, multiple drivers, a file, and the wedge/flat head/package opener/pry tool which I think is basically the greatest multitool implement ever.
I think Leatherman hit it out of the park with these tools. I can't wait to see how they improve upon the concept further.
Post by: Poncho65 on November 22, 2020, 06:25:08 AM
Post by: Time22 on November 28, 2020, 02:41:42 AM
Post by: Chako on November 28, 2020, 11:05:49 AM
Post by: REDBIRD on November 28, 2020, 08:20:19 PM
Post by: Yoda mpb on December 31, 2020, 06:10:20 PM
Tbh I would not have paid the full price at £169 in the UK but I managed to get it for £120. It was a second with inscribing over written in block.
I haven't tried it in anger yet but will let you know my thoughts. I'm new to the site but I've had leathermans since my first wave in 2001ish. I have built up a nice collection and usually carry an MUT, skeletool or Signal but always found I missed a file and scissors.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on December 31, 2020, 08:26:25 PM
Well my new P4 has arrived today. First impressions are great, except access to the inner most tools on the awl side. It actually feels very much like an original Wave.
Tbh I would not have paid the full price at £169 in the UK but I managed to get it for £120. It was a second with inscribing over written in block.
I haven't tried it in anger yet but will let you know my thoughts. I'm new to the site but I've had leathermans since my first wave in 2001ish. I have built up a nice collection and usually carry an MUT, skeletool or Signal but always found I missed a file and scissors.
Are the inside tools on the awl side hard to open?
I mean, they should open just as easy with one hand as the other side, maybe the tool is still a bit stiff and needs to be worked in a bit more?
Post by: stugumby on December 31, 2020, 10:12:31 PM
Post by: Yoda mpb on December 31, 2020, 10:19:30 PM
Are the inside tools on the awl side hard to open?
I mean, they should open just as easy with one hand as the other side, maybe the tool is still a bit stiff and needs to be worked in a bit more?
It is starting to loosen up.... I agree the drivers are thicker. Its definitely over priced but I do like it so far. It seems to have all I want, I guess time will tell.
Post by: MisterGizmo on February 04, 2021, 09:48:50 PM
Now that I know I am happy with it and keeping it as my daily carry I am going to add the 4 mm bit driver and horizontal sheath from ZapWizard. Might also get the t-shank adaptor in order to add the Surge diamond file back in... I do miss the bigger file since switching from the Surge.
Post by: The Lone Wanderer on March 21, 2021, 04:34:13 PM
Post by: pa_strunk on March 21, 2021, 10:10:13 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on March 21, 2021, 10:30:46 PM
Post by: ReamerPunch on March 22, 2021, 03:19:23 AM
Maybe they'll buy the Free bit driver design and put it in the Free tools? :pok:
Post by: SteveC on March 22, 2021, 04:38:56 AM
So what's the overall consensus on these tools? I see mixed feelings and have come to the conclusion that although carrying a Wave or a Charge is nice, I really don't need a super heavy duty tool for daily use, figured I would ask. I would like to try one but am going to try and trade my way for one. If anyone here has one they want to trade, check out my post in the "Tools Wanted" section.
Save your money and get a Rebar instead :tu:
Post by: Yoda mpb on March 22, 2021, 03:35:56 PM
So what's the overall consensus on these tools? I see mixed feelings and have come to the conclusion that although carrying a Wave or a Charge is nice, I really don't need a super heavy duty tool for daily use, figured I would ask. I would like to try one but am going to try and trade my way for one. If anyone here has one they want to trade, check out my post in the "Tools Wanted" section.
I personally think the p2 and p4 are great. For me I want ease of use, which is what they do. All the tools are on the outside and to me that means fast access.
There are so many people that don't like them and I am yet to understand why.
I've owned both for a few months and have daily carried most of the time. I do still reach for my MUT for bigger weekend work. But that more because its very well used and next to be replaced by another MUT.
I have a bigger issue with the T4. Yes it's OK but very big for what it does and doesn't have pliers.
Post by: Syncop8r on March 22, 2021, 07:52:01 PM
Save your money and get a Rebar instead :tu:Or save no money and get two Rebars instead.
Post by: StrangeToolbot on March 22, 2021, 08:15:47 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Time22 on March 25, 2021, 06:46:28 PM
So what's the overall consensus on these tools? I see mixed feelings and have come to the conclusion that although carrying a Wave or a Charge is nice, I really don't need a super heavy duty tool for daily use, figured I would ask. I would like to try one but am going to try and trade my way for one. If anyone here has one they want to trade, check out my post in the "Tools Wanted" section.
Get a Free P2. If you need the other tools, and a better file and awl, get a Charge and add the awl
Post by: Poncho65 on July 10, 2021, 10:30:50 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/RdZS2SHh.jpg)
Post by: bobartig on July 11, 2021, 07:36:46 PM
I think that everything else people gripe about is fairly moot. There are no moving parts at the magnet assemblies, so dust and dirt accumulation (assuming they occur) don't actually impede functionality. Plus, opening the tool completely provides ample access to the internals for cleaning (although iron filings directly on the magnet seems like it's probably very hard to remove). As a percentage of total use cases, the number of times you are working around metal shavings (for the vast majority of users) is zero, just zero. I get that someone working in construction or in a machine shop must instantly veto this design, but for them, they only have every other Leatherman tool to choose from, so they haven't been abandoned by any means.
Having said all this, I barely use my P2 or P4. Most of the time I need a driver, it's a torx or hex, so I really need a bit driver for my EDC. Outside of that, for gardening and around-the-house work, I just use either a Bond (lighter and smaller) or a Victorinox Cadet ("just a knife" plus some extras).
Post by: Jothra on July 15, 2021, 04:06:08 AM
The included drivers will handle Phillips and slot screws, obviously, but the end of the file can handle Robertson, which has most of my bases covered. It kind of feels like a Farmer X with full-sized pliers.
Post by: Poncho65 on July 15, 2021, 03:35:02 PM
Post by: MikeJay on July 18, 2021, 06:41:55 AM
my Free series experience. I first bought one very early after release. Cool. Magnets. But uh, that's it?
So I pretty much hated it compared to me Vic Spirit. Sold on eBay for a loss and continued using my Spirit of almost a decade.
Then I stumbled upon the ratchet driver which I was very interested in, then ZapWizard's mods, and those changed everything. Now I could visualize the big picture: All outside accessible tools, mostly one handed, a bit holder with ratchet, t-shank holder, all those bits... So I jumped back in the ring, all in...
Took a little filing and tweaking to get it just right, but once complete it is a thing to behold. I really believe I own the best multitool in the world, I sure haven't seen a better one for my needs. I decided to remove the plain edge since I carry a main blade anyway. Bottle opener? Never. File? Upgraded to an actual usable one. Phillips? Got a whole bit kit now. I spent quite a while re-arranging tools until reaching the current config. I was surprised and happy I could keep the large flat screwdriver/pry bar *and 2* thin tools by removing the washers on that side, which I don't miss at all. Actually the t-shank holder is now buttery smooth and self-closes nicely with the spring tension.
While I was at it, I Dremeled an extra flat bit with a groove and glued in a LM precision bit, so I can use it in my new bit holder also.
T-shank screws are the ones recommended by ZW, but I opted for Nickel plated.
So after a little work, a ridiculous amount of money, and flushing my warranty down the drain, here she is...
Post by: Poncho65 on July 18, 2021, 07:42:58 AM
Those are some great mods and I love the layout of your P4 8) :drool: :like: :like:
Post by: MikeJay on July 19, 2021, 03:04:13 AM
Welcome to :MTO: well posting anyways ;) :cheers:
Those are some great mods and I love the layout of your P4 8) :drool: :like: :like:
Thanks! Of course everyone has preferences, but man I do believe for me it doesn't get any better than this. The one elephant in the room, no offense to ZapWizard of course, is that LM should have made it with bit and t-shank holders to begin with - *especially* for the price. Or better yet, focus on tool interchangeability and allow customization on their website. That would bring them solidly into the future.
Post by: Poncho65 on July 19, 2021, 03:33:23 AM
Post by: Jothra on July 25, 2021, 04:25:29 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/mGUiqO4.jpg)
Its dimpling reminds me of the Victorinox Farmer X, so it's got that going for it!
For a variety of reasons, I had been thinking about carrying a multi-plier instead of my long-standing Swiss Army Knife. Traditionally I've carried a Victorinox or Wenger in my pocket, and a plier-based tool in my satchel, so I had a few to test out before I had to look at purchasing anything new. I tried with my Rebar, Swisstool Sprit X, and Wave, and the Wave was basically the winner...
...until I stared looking at the Free P4. Like, really looking at the Free P4. Focusing on the tool itself, rather than the glut of "honest" and "real" reviews that seemed bizarrely polarized, and (more often than not) highly thoretical (as in not actually demonstrated or even tested.) Finally, I caved, and picked one up. I've been carrying it for a month and a half now, and not one of the horrors of the review world has come to pass.
(https://i.imgur.com/qTagP4g.jpg)
Look at all those tools!
- Pliers! These are the pliers you'd expect from Leatherman. They are the only non-locking tool on the P4, but they snap nicely into place, and have all the usual design features: needlenose tips, standard toothy midsection, and replaceable cutters. My giant, meaty palms find the handles perfectly comfortable. I had seen a video with serious play in the handles with the pliers out, but mine only display a very minor amount, and even then it's only noticeable when I intentionally make it happen rather than in ordinary use.
- Pocket clip! Traditionally, I haven't been a pocket clip guy, but multi-pliers are much heavier than the SAKs I'm used to. This clip is easy to install and remove, and quite beefy. Because it attaches at the plier pivot side instead of the end of a handle, it won't open in my pocket (though this was a pretty rare issue with my Wave anyway).
- Phillips driver/bottle opener! I don't require a dedicated Phillips driver. After all, I'm used to using the can opener on a Swiss Army Knife, which absolutely gets the job done. This is an excellent Phillips driver, though, and the bottle opener works great without getting in the way.
- Flat driver/package opener/pry tool! I don't really care about the "package opener" edge (in that I just use the knife blade), but it's a perfectly good slot screwdriver. Where it excels is as a pry tool. I have been known to really punish pry tools, and this one is nice and beefy. Yay!
- Plain-edge knife blade! What's to say? Robust shape, easy to open, straightforward to sharpen, corrosion-resistant stainless...it's what I'd expect.
- Scissors! These are my favourite Leatherman scissors, bar none. Wave scissors are just fine, but these? Wow! They are a nice middle ground between beefy shears and fine grooming scissors (multitool scissors are what successfully ended my nail-biting habit). I absolutely require scissors in my pocket carry, and these go above and beyond.
- Serrated knife blade! Everything I said about the PE blade applies here. I don't use this one very often, but that just means it stays Emergency Situation Sharp at all times, so that's nice.
- Wood saw! I don't need a wood saw on my person as much as I used to, but as a forest-raised kid who grew up on a mountain, I just can't break the habit. It's a good saw, and I've used it several times on recent camping trips.
- Can opener! This thing could probably stand to have an extra function or something, but it opens cans just fine. I know can openers are divisive, but I'm a big fan. It's already saved the day on four separate occasions.
- Awl/micro screwdriver! My Wave has a better awl...that I put in there myself, because the Wave doesn't come with an awl. It works fine on belt leather, and anything soft. I need a pokey more often than a proper reamer anyway, so I like it. The fine driver tip has been getting tons of use fixing glasses and removing watch spring bars.
- Medium driver/ruler! I've never had much use for multitool rulers, and this one is no exception. I have used it to measure some washers, just to see if I can (yes), but I'm really more of a ruler-or-tape person. It works great for thinner slot screws, though.
- Small screwdriver/file! The driver tip on this works with Robertson screws, which are ubiquitous around here. That's my one issue with the Wave's bit driver, is having to carry an extra bit, because there are slot, Phillips, and Robertson screws all up in my biz all the time (Robertsons are my favourite, by the way!) The file works great for the small-scale uses I usually have for a multitool file — on those rare occasions in which I need a diamond file or a metal saw, or even a longer wood file, it's dedicated tool time. It mostly does fingernails anyway.
It's also an easy tool to take apart, opening the door to all kinds of customizations (though I'm not actually interested in any of them at this point; it's basically exactly what I want as-is!) and for thorough cleaning if that's ever something you feel like doing. I've taken mine completely apart twice, just to see what's what, and there are way fewer parts than I expected.
I wish I'd had the Free P4 back when I worked commercial construction. It's a fantastic Jack-of-all-trades tool to speed up that connection between thought and action, without the kind of specialization that tends to keep things out of my EDC. I'm obviously not about to get rid of my Rebar or Wave (or, for that matter, my Farmer X or my Swisstool), but the Free P4 is really getting the job done.
(https://i.imgur.com/6qJy4rV.jpg)
Leatherman Free P4 is go!
Pros:
- One-handed, locking everything!
- Intuitive and comfortable!
- Jack of all trades!
- The ruler is pretty tiny, I guess.
- The awl isn't as beefy as on many other tools.
- The can opener is single-purpose, though it's good at that single purpose.
- Bonus con! As demonstrated in an actual Youtube review, if you take your tool and throw it on the floor, the tools can open up. This is real.
I'm not going to get into the strange laundry list of "problems" people claim to have with tools flopping all over, magnets attracting all kinds of unwanted things, unlikely breakages, etc., except to say that most of them seem to be either overblown, highly conjectural, or contingent on intentionally misusing your tool.
Post by: Syncop8r on July 25, 2021, 07:10:03 AM
Post by: Chako on July 25, 2021, 10:36:33 AM
Post by: Poncho65 on July 25, 2021, 02:12:55 PM
Great pics to go with the review as well :woohoo:
Post by: Jothra on July 30, 2021, 12:14:55 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on July 30, 2021, 04:10:11 PM
Post by: ReamerPunch on July 30, 2021, 05:45:49 PM
It's the Leatherman Free P4! Magnets? How do they even work‽
It's magic. Duh. :pok:
Post by: ReamerPunch on July 30, 2021, 05:48:53 PM
Awesome review, Jothra :like: :like: I know that you as a member of MTO are much more reliable of a source than most other places online :tu: :like: I haven't carried my P2 much and still want a P4 but I haven't had any problems with any of my Free tools because of the magnets or any other problems for that matter, either :tu: I just prefer a Wave, Charge, Rebar or Supertool (all the generations) over the Free series but that doesn't mean I dislike it, it just means that I like the other options better :cheers:
Great pics to go with the review as well :woohoo:
:iagree:
and also :rant:
Because now I am kind of thinking of maybe getting one possibly. We'll see.
Post by: ReamerPunch on July 30, 2021, 05:50:01 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on July 30, 2021, 06:25:38 PM
Post by: Max Stone on July 30, 2021, 08:35:29 PM
Post by: Jothra on July 31, 2021, 05:23:39 AM
Tool is untarnished. No pictures, because I do my best not to carry my phone these days.
Post by: Poncho65 on July 31, 2021, 04:24:06 PM
Post by: Jothra on July 31, 2021, 11:43:06 PM
The pliers are very Hefty on the Free P series and I do wished that we would see those on some of the next Gen tools :tu: :like:I would like to see that as well. Though, just to be clear, I used the closed pivots as a hammer.
Post by: Poncho65 on July 31, 2021, 11:53:34 PM
Post by: Jothra on August 01, 2021, 12:03:02 AM
Ah, gotcha :cheers: I have used a MT as a hammer more than I will admit :whistle: :DWhen all you have is nails, every tool's a hammer
Post by: Poncho65 on August 01, 2021, 12:14:39 AM
Post by: ReamerPunch on August 01, 2021, 07:32:27 PM
Post by: frickinflip on August 09, 2021, 11:16:44 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210809/08427fc96b6473996467e785ceab415d.jpg)Sent from my LE2125 using Tapatalk
Post by: Poncho65 on August 10, 2021, 12:38:30 AM
Post by: Jothra on August 17, 2021, 09:22:10 AM
Here's a picture in the dark, because the light switch is almost a whole metre away.
(https://i.imgur.com/FlZTz3x.jpg)
The Martian is best read in a tent in the pouring rain.
Post by: Poncho65 on August 17, 2021, 06:29:23 PM
Great pic :like:
Post by: Rich_SD on August 17, 2021, 06:32:36 PM
Post by: Jothra on August 17, 2021, 06:48:02 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ZJFEylN.jpg)
Post by: Poncho65 on August 17, 2021, 07:11:46 PM
Post by: frickinflip on August 21, 2021, 07:24:37 PM
Sent from my LE2125 using Tapatalk
Post by: Poncho65 on August 21, 2021, 07:27:11 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on October 22, 2021, 02:10:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/m1zV3T4h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/uh4DVLsh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/38kmshkh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/a37VVFRh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nF3HtFvh.jpg)
Post by: cnlson on October 24, 2021, 08:29:25 AM
The hype as I recall it was the ability to balisong the tool open, I can do that with my charges after a little tuf glide and working it a little. and on my p2 unless you really flick it it does not lock open, it kind of bounces off the detents. plus when folding it up I end up pinching the web of my hand, both of which don't happen with my charge when I do the same.
After reading some of the posts here I decided to check the tools, which I had always assumed were from the wingman/sidekick and they are not exactly but seem more like inspired by the wingman/sidekick.
I agree with the posts here that say overpriced. But I'm not sure that I am not influenced by the prices I paid for sidekicks and wingmen. I got 11 sidekicks for $18 and 9 wingmen for $11 at the HD after xmas clearances on consecutive years.
They all made great presents. But maybe that's why $119 and $139 seem like such a stretch.
I'd be much more comfortable with the price of the P2 @ $79 or $89 and the P4 @ $99 but as it is they are in the range of the Surge and Charge and more than the ST300, I just don't feel they are anywhere near as premium as a surge or a charge.
no premium steel, no bit exchanger or tshank adapter. If they came with zapwizard's tools off the top, And a CPM154 or S30v blade that would also go a ways to justify pricing into surge and charge level.
EDIT yup it bit me when I was closing it up from the picture. Had my hand near the plier head and when it snaps out of the detent it grabs me.
Post by: parnass on November 10, 2021, 02:35:02 AM
(https://parnass.com/images/leatherman-free-tools.jpg)
Post by: Poncho65 on November 10, 2021, 11:51:51 AM
Congrats in adding the P2, parnass :tu: :like:
I still haven't gotten a P4 yet but it is on the list :cheers:
Post by: Poncho65 on January 07, 2022, 06:12:07 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/fdRFxLkh.jpg)
And T4 :salute:
(https://i.imgur.com/qTPiwdMh.jpg)
Post by: nakken on January 07, 2022, 06:29:44 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on January 08, 2022, 01:41:00 AM
Post by: Zephon on January 08, 2022, 01:48:15 AM
Now that’s a keeper!
Post by: Poncho65 on January 08, 2022, 01:51:59 AM
Post by: rxd on January 08, 2022, 06:09:59 PM
Post by: cdcengineer on January 08, 2022, 06:48:34 PM
Post by: nakken on January 08, 2022, 07:04:44 PM
And welcome to the forum, cdcengineer :tu:
Post by: cdcengineer on January 08, 2022, 07:39:40 PM
Post by: rxd on January 08, 2022, 08:02:44 PM
Post by: cdcengineer on January 08, 2022, 08:10:13 PM
Post by: cdcengineer on January 08, 2022, 08:14:26 PM
Post by: rxd on January 08, 2022, 08:25:09 PM
Look under the Philips on the retaining clip that holds the plier head
Lol, I guess I am going blind. It's right there. Mines 09 21.
Post by: cdcengineer on January 08, 2022, 08:27:00 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on January 08, 2022, 09:14:23 PM
And welcome to :MTO: cdc :cheers:
Post by: rxd on January 08, 2022, 09:40:27 PM
How do you like it so far?
I like it but I would make changes if I could (wouldn't we all?).
I guess my main issue continues to be the price. It's comparable to my Swisstool Spirit X which is a real nice tool. But it is a lot more expensive.
Post by: cdcengineer on January 12, 2022, 10:33:10 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on January 13, 2022, 12:13:23 AM
The Leatherman flat bits don't seem like a 2D driver and grab screws like a 3D driver does :salute:
You 12 year old should be psyched though :D
Post by: Zephon on January 13, 2022, 12:27:05 AM
Man o man! I just backed a gold deck screw out. It was holding a 2x4 onto drywall. The were already partially backed out. I'm not impressed by the phillips driver. It slipped despite my putting lots of pressure behind it, and when complete with two screws it looks a bit worn / rounded. My wave never had this issue. First hard use, and not psyched with the performance. That bums me out as I was wanting to like this tool. I'm shopping for a Charge. If I can score one cheap enough, maybe this'll got o my 12 year old
Is that a P2? I’m also thinking that the P2 would work with my 12yr old somewhere along the line. The tool’s weight is the only thing bothering me even though it will be pouch carry.
Post by: cdcengineer on January 13, 2022, 04:27:33 AM
Is that a P2? I’m also thinking that the P2 would work with my 12yr old somewhere along the line. The tool’s weight is the only thing bothering me even though it will be pouch carry.
It is the P2.
Poncho, I've,seen the mods, and might do It. I got a screaming deal on this tool new, so my feelings aren't that hurt. I just wanted to like this tool more. I don't love the looseness of the one hand opening of the pliers. My wave was tight and I just used my leg to assist the opening if I was one handed on a ladder or in a tight spot. It's nice, but could be much better with a gen 1 wave phillips which would accept the attachment
Post by: rxd on January 13, 2022, 01:56:22 PM
Post by: Time22 on March 02, 2022, 03:02:26 AM
Here my P4 setup! Aloha
Sent from my LE2125 using Tapatalk
Post by: StrangeToolbot on March 02, 2022, 06:04:42 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220302/4f17f7ca4b3daaf6faccc1631fa6bcad.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220302/dced2a0a93541b908e6f34042ad209dc.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Poncho65 on March 02, 2022, 12:30:48 PM
Post by: StrangeToolbot on March 02, 2022, 07:40:33 PM
Very cool blade :o :drool: :like: :like:Thank you! I wanted to mirror it on the other side, but the tool customizer was having issues. I kinda like just having one side. I’ve thought of getting a Curl that is customized, but I already have many tools.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Time22 on March 12, 2022, 03:45:38 AM
I have never understood why the didn't make the Philips compatible with a bit kit or at least include a new 1/4" bit adapter. For $150 that seems the least they could do....
Post by: Poncho65 on March 26, 2022, 06:52:46 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/FhdwUKxh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ayocx7rh.jpg)
Post by: Poncho65 on March 27, 2022, 07:46:55 PM
Post by: Farmer X on March 28, 2022, 05:26:38 AM
Post by: Poncho65 on March 28, 2022, 12:30:10 PM
Post by: stuntzombie on April 04, 2022, 01:04:51 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/GbapMyXh.jpg)
Here it is with a couple of other daily carry tools.
(https://i.imgur.com/nMZbhSkh.jpg)
Post by: Poncho65 on April 04, 2022, 01:46:29 AM
Excellent pics and glad you are getting on with the P2 :woohoo: :like:
Post by: stuntzombie on April 04, 2022, 02:26:40 AM
Welcome to :MTO: stuntzombie :cheers:
Excellent pics and glad you are getting on with the P2 :woohoo: :like:
Thank you!
Post by: Rich_SD on April 04, 2022, 02:36:26 AM
Post by: rishardh on April 04, 2022, 04:09:10 AM
I've had a Free P2 for a few months now, and it's become my favorite multi-tool that I've ever owned. If I could change one thing, it would be to switch out the partially serrated blade for a plain edge. Regardless, it's ground nice and thin and is scary sharp. The tool set is pretty much perfect for my uses, and it handles just about anything I come across at work.
(https://i.imgur.com/GbapMyXh.jpg)
Here it is with a couple of other daily carry tools.
(https://i.imgur.com/nMZbhSkh.jpg)
A P2 fan and a Lego Fan :salute: I believe the new Back to the Future DeLorean is in that catalog. Have been waiting for it.
Post by: StrangeToolbot on April 04, 2022, 04:12:27 AM
A P2 fan and a Lego Fan :salute: I believe the new Back to the Future DeLorean is in that catalog. Have been waiting for it.I have the same catalog, and yes, the new DeLorean is in there. There is also a pretty sharp looking Lamborghini Countach under the Speed Champions line.
Post by: rishardh on April 04, 2022, 04:58:51 AM
I have the same catalog, and yes, the new DeLorean is in there. There is also a pretty sharp looking Lamborghini Countach under the Speed Champions line.
Very cool, thanks for confirming and the heads up on the Lamborghini :hatsoff:. I would love to get them all but it's never going to happen. Hoping to drop a few hints around Father's day and see if I get surprised with the DeLorean.
Post by: cnlson on April 04, 2022, 06:02:33 AM
Leatherman free p2 $20
https://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/tls/d/tampa-leatherman-free-p2/7443806251.html
Post by: Poncho65 on April 04, 2022, 01:02:59 PM
Post by: Zephon on May 01, 2022, 12:15:22 PM
Initial thoughts? Well, is there a way to give it a PE blade? I’m quite happy that the plier head doesn’t need loosening up (like my ST300 and Skeletool). I don’t think I’ll miss the wood and metal saws. I’d like to think of this as a Deluxe Tinker Leatherman version.
Btw, there this round magnet that came with it - what was that for?
Post by: Poncho65 on May 01, 2022, 05:23:46 PM
You can buy plain edge blades to replace the combo blade with but I haven't found any for a reasonable price :dunno:
I have no idea about the extra magnet though :think: maybe it just magnetized to it before packing it up and you got an extra now :D :tu:
Post by: Zephon on May 01, 2022, 11:54:36 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on May 02, 2022, 02:33:09 AM
Post by: Zephon on May 02, 2022, 08:58:00 AM
Unfortunately the T2 and T4 blades are smaller than the ones on both the P2 and P4 :-\
Thanks for confirming, Poncho.
A pity though. Coz of the half-and-half edge of the blade, I couldn’t help but feel that the cutting edge was shorter than a SAK….
Anyway, still trying to find uses for the new P2!
Post by: Erik Elvis on May 03, 2022, 03:16:53 PM
Post by: Zephon on May 03, 2022, 04:38:23 PM
Looking at a P4 to round out my latest acquisitions. Do I need a P4 though or do I want a P2? I have a few large tools (mut, surge, ST 300). But I guess I have a few smaller ones too… A couple waves and a skeletool.
How often do you need a wood or metal saw or file? I rarely use wood saws and I’d rather use a hacksaw for metal so I guess I’ll be fine with a P2.
If you want something that’ll cover all bases then go but and go P4.
Post by: Zephon on May 04, 2022, 11:54:06 AM
Post by: Erik Elvis on May 05, 2022, 02:04:43 AM
Post by: Poncho65 on May 06, 2022, 12:25:48 AM
I have the P2 but it was only because I got a good deal and wpuld have preferred the P4 if I could have gotten a deal on one of those instead :salute:
Post by: Zephon on May 06, 2022, 10:52:46 AM
They are the same sized tool the P2 is just thinner :cheers:
I have the P2 but it was only because I got a good deal and wpuld have preferred the P4 if I could have gotten a deal on one of those instead :salute:
You and me both, Poncho! I got a good deal on a new one and was thinking it was enough for basic household needs. The P2 I got was just USD22 more than a T4 so I took the plunge.
So far the most used tool is the package opener in an attemp to save the blade edge.
Post by: Erik Elvis on May 17, 2022, 03:37:33 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on June 05, 2022, 03:54:51 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on June 05, 2022, 03:55:33 PM
Got the P4. Didn’t think I’d care much for the one handed open but I’m kinda digging it. Might take the place of the wave in my man purse.
I hope that the P4 is working out well for you :cheers: :tu:
Post by: Poncho65 on June 15, 2022, 05:46:07 PM
Post by: Dunc on August 18, 2022, 01:52:39 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on August 19, 2022, 07:42:09 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/6Yh1O1mh.jpg)
Post by: Poncho65 on August 19, 2022, 07:42:42 PM
Post by: Dunc on August 20, 2022, 08:57:55 AM
No idea about the can opener, Dunc :whistle: I really never use one :ahhh
My P2 arrived yesterday :D first implement I tested was the bottle opener :drink: And the second was the can opener. Both performed perfectly.
Mine doesn’t have a date code on it , does it mean it’s an early one or have LM stopped putting them on ? It could be old stock but I did get it from Heinnie’s.
There is play in one of the handles ( pocket clip side ) at the plier pivot but this seems like a fairly common observation.
Overall I’m quite impressed
Post by: Dunc on August 20, 2022, 02:55:34 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on August 20, 2022, 05:33:44 PM
I forget where the datecode is in these at the moment :facepalm:
I know that you pretty well have to disassemble the Free T4 to see the date of those but I forget if the P series has them and where :dunno: :ahhh
Post by: Dunc on August 21, 2022, 08:43:23 AM
Great pic, Dunc 8) :like: Also glad to hear that the bottle and can opener work as they should :tu: :like: :like:
I forget where the datecode is in these at the moment :facepalm:
I know that you pretty well have to disassemble the Free T4 to see the date of those but I forget if the P series has them and where :dunno: :ahhh
Thanks :tu: as for the date code others have had it on the little tab in the handles that guide the pliers in when closing the tool
Post by: cdcengineer on August 21, 2022, 12:59:10 PM
Post by: Dunc on August 21, 2022, 02:31:17 PM
Look under the Phillips on the little tab for date code
There’s nothing on mine so it’s either an early one or LM have stopped dating them
Post by: nakken on August 21, 2022, 03:39:27 PM
There’s nothing on mine so it’s either an early one or LM have stopped dating them
No date on mine either. Is this a European thing? I was gifted another Leatherman from a US friend and noticed that the box said "US sales only".
I got my P4 in late 2019, so it could be because it was early too. :dunno:
Post by: Poncho65 on August 21, 2022, 04:00:13 PM
Checking again thia morning after resding here again, One of them has no date codes (perhaps an earlier one) but the other one had a date of 08 19, so perhaps from sometime around that time or before they started putting dates on them :dunno:
Glad I checked both because I would have never thought to look again unless this thread had reminded me :D
Post by: ToolJoe on August 27, 2022, 08:05:21 AM
Post by: Poncho65 on August 27, 2022, 05:01:29 PM
I have also taken polishing paste ( Flitz, Wenol or Metal Glo) and a rag and just polished the spots out on individual tools :salute:
Post by: Poncho65 on September 19, 2022, 01:54:17 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/Xcu038ih.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Vq2kh6Yh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0a3seeVh.jpg)
Post by: Poncho65 on September 22, 2022, 05:05:04 PM
Post by: nakken on September 22, 2022, 05:09:01 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on September 22, 2022, 08:48:50 PM
Post by: nakken on September 22, 2022, 08:53:57 PM
:gimme:
Post by: Poncho65 on September 22, 2022, 11:39:02 PM
I see! If you want to try the T4 more, I can take care of your Charge knife :whistle:
:gimme:
:twak: :whistle:
:D
:nanadance: :nanadance:
Post by: nakken on September 26, 2022, 07:50:17 AM
Post by: SteveC on September 26, 2022, 02:05:52 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on September 26, 2022, 02:31:30 PM
Thanks for sharing :tu:
Post by: nakken on September 27, 2022, 06:54:58 AM
I think the "Landspeed" has a nice toolset
Post by: WillieTheJanitor on November 24, 2022, 06:34:16 PM
Post by: nakken on November 24, 2022, 06:45:00 PM
The P4 sure is photogenic :dd:
Post by: Poncho65 on November 24, 2022, 10:36:07 PM
Post by: one6pack on November 27, 2022, 05:35:51 AM
I was planning on taking pictures of the finished job but it got late, I was frustrated and had other things to do.
How it came in
(https://i.imgur.com/NFs3fa9.jpg)
Post by: Poncho65 on November 27, 2022, 03:55:16 PM
Post by: nakken on November 27, 2022, 04:52:15 PM
Post by: one6pack on November 30, 2022, 08:13:43 AM
I've been lurking for a few weeks and have caught the multitool bug!
Post by: Poncho65 on November 30, 2022, 06:49:19 PM
Post by: stuntzombie on November 30, 2022, 11:39:05 PM
Really my only complaint is that I wish the largest driver was just a driver, and didn't have the package opener edge ground into it.
Post by: Crunchie64 on November 30, 2022, 11:51:27 PM
I love a serrated blade, but it’s on the “wrong” side to open easily one handed. If you’re hanging upside down from a seat belt, a bootlace, or a rope, you’re not going to want a Phillips screwdriver or a tiny pair of scissors, you’re going to want a serrated blade!
Post by: Afonso on December 06, 2022, 11:10:17 PM
The p2 has everything I need and fits my pocket, and the fact the all the tools are one hand open makes this my favorite multitool, the one problem was the combo blade, I really hated it, but finally got rid of it, it's perfect for me now, so I consider this a good deal.
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I also have a video uploaded on YouTube, but I not sure if I'm allowed to post external links here.
Post by: Poncho65 on December 07, 2022, 12:26:49 AM
Post by: parnass on January 03, 2023, 11:39:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-MAwQ_-Myk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-MAwQ_-Myk)
Post by: David Bowen on January 27, 2023, 03:12:35 AM
Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
Post by: mikekoz on January 27, 2023, 05:09:15 AM
I'm having some issues in the last week where the implements on my P2 (the has the can opener) have become stiff and very hard to open. I've oiled it up really well and can get them to pop open with a thumb roll like normal unless I loosen the torx screws holding the tool together. I've also used compressed air to clean out gunk that might be in there. Anything I might be overlooking? Don't want to sent it to Leatherman if it's something I may be overlooking. The P2 has been my edc for a few years now and hasn't given any issues.
Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
Have you tried WD40? Just loosen the torx screws and give it a good spray!!
Post by: David Bowen on January 28, 2023, 01:35:39 AM
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Post by: Berg on February 12, 2023, 10:00:16 PM
I have no experience with multitools and I wont carry it daily. Just want a nice and durable tool with lots of options.
Can you guys please tell me why I should pick the P4 above the Wave+ and Surge if you look purely at the tools.
(ps, I dont care about those extra bit options or T-shank options, for me those are more negative than a positive)
And, could you guys tell me your honest experience with the package opener? Is it purely designed to open blister packages or also taped boxes? And does it do its job???
Post by: Max Stone on February 12, 2023, 10:09:43 PM
Surge is bulletproof but a large tool, too large for many ppl.
Wave has been and remains the #1 choice for many, and for a first-time MT user, would be my recommendation.
Good luck with your choice and welcome to :MTO:
Post by: Poncho65 on February 12, 2023, 11:15:49 PM
If I had to pick between them I would go with a Wave as well :salute: I prefer the tools on the Wave over the Free P4 :cheers:
Post by: Crunchie64 on February 13, 2023, 12:10:53 AM
If you don’t want to worry about carrying (and losing) extra bits, it’s got more built in screwdrivers than the Wave+.
The package opener is more for slicing through tape and levering boxes open than for opening blister packs - you’ll need scissors or a knife blade for that.
It’s getting harder and harder as online shopping takes over, but try to handle them to help you decide. You might prefer the feel of one or the other in your hand.
As an only multitool to carry and use, the Free P4 is a good option.
Post by: Berg on February 13, 2023, 09:06:41 AM
Welcome to :MTO: Berg :cheers:
If I had to pick between them I would go with a Wave as well :salute: I prefer the tools on the Wave over the Free P4 :cheers:
Free is nice effort my LM to come up with some new ideas. Not comfortable as pliers but P4 is a good package.Thanks for the welcome!
Surge is bulletproof but a large tool, too large for many ppl.
Wave has been and remains the #1 choice for many, and for a first-time MT user, would be my recommendation.
Good luck with your choice and welcome to :MTO:
So you both like the tools more on the Wave? Do you guys mean like the tool build quality or the actual function of the tools? Because I only see more options at the P4 than on the Wave? (I will not use extra bits on the wave)
Edit: Hmmm those bit kits also have hexagon tools.... Starting to change my mind lol. :ahhh
Post by: Poncho65 on February 13, 2023, 11:59:15 AM
The bit kit of course does make a difference to me as well :cheers: I carry my most used bits in a bit card that stays in my sheath for work :salute:
Post by: Max Stone on February 13, 2023, 07:37:22 PM
Or like the rest of us here...look at your first choice as just the start your MT journey :pok:
Post by: HarleyXJGuy on February 22, 2023, 01:46:48 AM
Don’t remember it being as heavy as it feels now. Curious to weigh it vs some of my other tools later. Still a huge fan of the pocket clip though. Makes me want a Bond and wish the Rebar had the same clip.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i86/HarleyXJGuy/FullSizeRender_3MobtS43V1q9ZBKhvZj1fM.jpg)
Post by: HarleyXJGuy on February 22, 2023, 02:12:11 AM
The knife and saw will need some of the little add on bits that Colt uses. Still very hard for me to open one handed.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i86/HarleyXJGuy/FullSizeRender_j4efAnq49Co18FwxFfjhP6.jpg)
Post by: Poncho65 on February 22, 2023, 03:16:11 AM
Just went through here and it seems I never officially joined this club. Had my P4 out for a cleaning and lube when the mail arrived.
Don’t remember it being as heavy as it feels now. Curious to weigh it vs some of my other tools later. Still a huge fan of the pocket clip though. Makes me want a Bond and wish the Rebar had the same clip.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i86/HarleyXJGuy/FullSizeRender_3MobtS43V1q9ZBKhvZj1fM.jpg)
Welcome to the club, Harley :woohoo:
Great pics :tu: :like:
:nanadance: :nanadance:
Post by: Poncho65 on July 21, 2023, 07:34:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/QQddbfOh.jpg)
Post by: ed_is_dead on September 17, 2023, 04:00:41 PM
The new and the old
Post by: Poncho65 on September 17, 2023, 04:04:52 PM
Post by: pfrsantos on September 22, 2023, 06:51:35 PM
:think: :think:
Post by: Poncho65 on September 23, 2023, 12:32:32 AM
Seems like we do though :think:
Post by: Rich_SD on September 23, 2023, 05:40:24 PM
I forget if we have an owners club for those :dunno:
Seems like we do though :think:
Here ya go: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,87798.msg2265298.html#msg2265298
Post by: powernoodle on September 23, 2023, 08:18:29 PM
That being said, I am carrying a P4 as of late, and have two more unopened P4's in the Special Reserve Collection just in case they disappear forever. I get a sick feeling when an MT is discontinued (goodbye, dear friend), and the only medicine is to have one or several backups in the Special Reserve Collection. I emailed Leatherman twice this week asking if the P4 was discontinued, and they haven't responded though sometimes it takes a few days. My experience with Leatherman CS is that they don't know any more than we do about the state of things. One CS lassie told me recently that CS is only told about things a couple of days before it happens. As I noted in another thread, I would not be surprised if the P4 were disappeared, since the Arc is basically a P4 with eyeliner and perfume to put us in a love trance - along with an $80 upcharge.
(https://i.imgur.com/Y1SCoZD.jpg)
If nuclear war decimates the planet, the DNA from these P4's now held in cryosleep can be used to re-establish the MT Kingdom. This is my gift to humanity.
Post by: pfrsantos on September 24, 2023, 01:32:39 AM
Awesome pics, guys! :tu:
Here ya go: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,87798.msg2265298.html#msg2265298
Thanks, Rich! Just got my hands on a T4 and didn't knew where to boast about it...
:D :D
:cheers: :tu:
Post by: powernoodle on September 25, 2023, 11:14:37 PM
Thank you for contacting Leatherman Tool Group, Inc. The Free P4 has not officially been discontinued. However, we sadly do not have an expected date as to when this item will be in stock again. Please sign up for an email notification on the item's product page on our website so you don’t miss an opportunity to purchase one when they return.
Having previously been told by Leatherman CS that they don't know if an item has been discontinued until a couple of days before the announcement, I translate the reply as meaning that either the PS4 has been discontinued, or it has not.
:dunno:
But its better to have a few extras on hand - just in case. (https://emoticons.datahamster.com/yes.gif) (https://emoticons.datahamster.com/yes.gif) (https://emoticons.datahamster.com/yes.gif)
Post by: Poncho65 on September 25, 2023, 11:55:08 PM
Post by: Quizerno on October 16, 2023, 02:08:21 PM
However, returning to it and adding a bit of oil to the blade pivot, has made it more attractive to me. If you utilize it as a minimalist tool with an emergency set of pliers, it feels a bit better since I'm trying to cut down on on my carry.
I still think it's really insulting for Leatherman to finally release the ARC and include the bit drivers, long file, and smoother opening blade and make Free owners feel a bit robbed.
Post by: Vadim on October 17, 2023, 09:51:10 PM
I was skeptical about it without holding or using it.
The ability to open all the tools without breaking my nails (Hello Swisstool!), is a huge improvement (for me).
It looks nice, the quality is great, and a big plus is that it can be easily modified for left-handed use.
:tu:
Post by: Poncho65 on October 18, 2023, 03:04:26 AM
Post by: Vadim on October 18, 2023, 05:39:35 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/KLp7uXgh.jpg)Great picture, Poncho! :tu:
Post by: Poncho65 on October 18, 2023, 11:32:50 AM
Post by: Poncho65 on December 09, 2023, 06:30:08 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on December 09, 2023, 06:31:10 PM
Post by: cdcengineer on December 13, 2023, 12:27:17 AM
Post by: cdcengineer on December 13, 2023, 12:32:04 AM
Post by: Crunchie64 on December 13, 2023, 09:54:05 AM
Poncho, I'm betting you're happy with the arc. And it's doubtful this drives prices up on P4, but if retired, finding a nib example might be tough for collectors.
And once you realise what you’ve been missing, you’ll need a user to go with your NIB collection one.
And a backup.
I think the P4 is still my favourite and most carried Leatherman.
Post by: Poncho65 on December 13, 2023, 03:15:59 PM
Post by: cdcengineer on December 13, 2023, 03:47:56 PM
And once you realise what you’ve been missing, you’ll need a user to go with your NIB collection one.
And a backup.
I think the P4 is still my favourite and most carried Leatherman.
Do you prefer it over the arc?
Post by: Poncho65 on December 13, 2023, 04:15:11 PM
REI has the free P4 in stock and price at $111.93. Usually prices ending in 0.93 are being phased out. Might be an indication that the p4 is being retired.
With you saying that and pointing out the reduced price I may or may not have bought one from REI :dwts: :rofl: :D
Post by: Crunchie64 on December 13, 2023, 04:58:05 PM
Do you prefer it over the arc?
Absolutely!
I use flat head screwdrivers more than anything “fancy”, and like to have a serrated blade handy.
Post by: powernoodle on December 13, 2023, 05:50:19 PM
With you saying that and pointing out the reduced price I may or may not have bought one from REI :dwts: :rofl: :D
I bought one at REI, and I don't even like the magnetic deployment. But I have 4x of these now to preserve a little bit of LM history, because when they are gone - they are gone. You can quote me on that.
The P4 has been absent from the Leatherman website for at least 3 months.
Post by: Poncho65 on December 13, 2023, 08:10:56 PM
Post by: JonesE on December 14, 2023, 01:30:13 AM
REI has the free P4 in stock and price at $111.93. Usually prices ending in 0.93 are being phased out. Might be an indication that the p4 is being retired.
Thanks cdcengineer! I ordered a replacement for one I sold off a year or so ago. I ended up paying $86.00 since I had some dividend saved up. I will give it another chance.
JonesE
Post by: cdcengineer on December 14, 2023, 03:33:17 AM
I've been carrying the P2 for a long while now, but I've been collecting charges (not sure why aside from an addiction). I view the P2 as disposable because I think it's replacement value is 75ish. The tip is busted too.
Might either save the arc and carry an old Ti that LM replaced the plier head on, or start carrying the arc. But even with the discount it's such an expensive tool to replace if lost.
I'm curious if the implements on the arc are as weak as the P2. I find the flat and Philips easily round off vs the charges tough tool set.
It'll be interesting to see the new Free lineup. They gotta have something planned with the crunch and alleged P2 / P4 retirements. There's gotta be a tool with serrated blade as LM will need parts to repair P2s.
My P2 has early 2019 date code but i doubt itll be collectible. I like the ease of deployment on the Free, but never got used to not having a saw and bit driver. I would've got the P4, but knowing the arc with bit driver was coming, I held off. Merry Holidays
Post by: Legend on December 14, 2023, 05:12:46 AM
Im glad the post helped some of you spend your Christmas money. I pulled the trigger on an ARC with medical discount. Got bit kits too.You wanna sell that P2? I’m curious to try it as a slim EDC alternative.
I've been carrying the P2 for a long while now, but I've been collecting charges (not sure why aside from an addiction). I view the P2 as disposable because I think it's replacement value is 75ish. The tip is busted too.
Might either save the arc and carry an old Ti that LM replaced the plier head on, or start carrying the arc. But even with the discount it's such an expensive tool to replace if lost.
I'm curious if the implements on the arc are as weak as the P2. I find the flat and Philips easily round off vs the charges tough tool set.
It'll be interesting to see the new Free lineup. They gotta have something planned with the crunch and alleged P2 / P4 retirements. There's gotta be a tool with serrated blade as LM will need parts to repair P2s.
My P2 has early 2019 date code but i doubt itll be collectible. I like the ease of deployment on the Free, but never got used to not having a saw and bit driver. I would've got the P4, but knowing the arc with bit driver was coming, I held off. Merry Holidays
Post by: cdcengineer on December 14, 2023, 03:58:59 PM
Post by: Legend on December 14, 2023, 04:03:20 PM
Maybe. Lemme see how the arc is when it arrivesSounds good. Can you tell me the date code? I also collect 0519 tools for my carry.
Post by: cdcengineer on December 14, 2023, 08:35:16 PM
Post by: Legend on December 14, 2023, 08:36:58 PM
Post by: Crunchie64 on December 14, 2023, 09:58:34 PM
Post by: cdcengineer on December 14, 2023, 10:38:49 PM
Post by: Crunchie64 on December 14, 2023, 10:42:55 PM
I think the oldest ones (1st released) didn't have a stamp. If I recall, there were a couple changes made early on too.
That’s interesting. I only bought it about three months ago from the local branch of a big camping and outdoors chain. I wonder how long they’d had it in their warehouse.
I assume the date would be on the small tabs of metal under the pliers on the P2, same place as the P4?
Post by: cdcengineer on December 14, 2023, 10:43:40 PM
Post by: cdcengineer on December 14, 2023, 10:45:46 PM
Post by: cdcengineer on December 17, 2023, 09:23:50 PM
Post by: cdcengineer on December 29, 2023, 05:43:58 PM
Anyone heard if there's going to be price increases in the new year? I think that's happened the past few years.
Post by: Crunchie64 on December 30, 2023, 01:49:30 AM
I'm now starting to think we'll see a Free P2+ and P4+ in 2024 that include a bit driver instead of all the flat head screwdrivers.
Do you think there’s room for both alongside the Arc?
I’d like to see smaller and larger versions first, with a combo blade, less expensive steel version of the Arc later.
I think a Free MiniTool without Magnacut and Free Surge with all the goodies would be popular.
Luckily for me, I’m not a Leatherman designer or engineer, so I don’t have to figure out how the Free Mini will work.
Post by: Kevdynamite on January 03, 2024, 05:28:35 AM
Then, while doing some research, I found the free series. I loved the fact that the tools are all on the outside, especially because my job involved constantly needing just a screw driver. And the P2, being my entry into this series, really did everything that I needed. I tried carrying a bit set in a sheath for my surge for a while with a tiny flashlight and pen and quickly realized that I am a pocket clip guy and to heck with adding all kinds of extras I will never use. The few drivers, the robust scissors, the sharp wire cutters: this thing really checked all my boxes and then some.
I thought I lost one at work. I retraced my steps, I tore my work vehicle apart. I was heartbroken, but I put the wave in my pocket and figured I'd learn to love it. I was wrong, and I bought a slightly used replacement P2 on ebay after a dew days. Then, last week--about 8 months after losing and replacing my first one, I found my lost MT deep in my bedroom recliner. I was extremely excited to now have a back up, and my wife had just gifted me an ARC for Xmas. I am living high on the hog.
And another thing I've seen far too often is fear that the magnets will collect too much gunk and lead to failure. As an industrial electrician, I have cut thousands of holes and windows in panels and enclosures and have not had a single issue with chips and shavings. My last job was in a cement mill and limestone mine, which is basically hell on earth for tools and equipment. I was always getting my surge so full of gunk that I would need to submerge the thing in solvents to clean it and then do the same thing with a bath of oil to lube it up. I cleaned and oiled my hand tools and boots every month when I was on night shift, but my P2 never needed any help.
I love the P2 because of its minimalist tool set that works wonders for what I do. And I am not necessarily a guy that will struggle with a subpar MT if I don't have to. I deal with electricity, so jamming a lightning rod into places it shouldn't go is very low on my priority list. My MT is a back up to an extremely indulgent hand tool collection, but there are certainly times when I forgot to bring something and am smitten to have what will do the job clipped to my pocket. I'm excited to have and carry an ARC, but I still think the P2 is my grail.
Post by: JonesE on January 03, 2024, 10:57:45 PM
JonesE
Post by: Poncho65 on January 03, 2024, 11:22:53 PM
Post by: David Bowen on January 04, 2024, 12:29:04 AM
Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
Post by: cdcengineer on January 04, 2024, 03:56:56 AM
Post by: Kevdynamite on January 05, 2024, 04:51:44 PM
Size of the P2 is great, but a P2+ or P3 in the some size with bit driver is going to be better. I just got the arc, but have been carrying an old Ti. Love the Ti. I had never carried it with a pocket clip till now. Always used a sheath with wave and charge, but my P2 turned me into a pocket carrier. However with the Ti, I notice the handles open a bit in my side carhartt pocket. The magnets on the P2 never allowed that to happen.
I bought a beautiful leather sheath for my surge years ago, with a spot for a bit sleeve, small light, and extension, but I just could not get used to having a big, bulbous wart hanging off my belt. And I can understand why everyone desires the bit holders on these tools, but I am someone that will 100% lose the bits. I have 6x 11-1 screwdrivers in my work truck as we speak that are missing at least 1 bit :dunno:. I guess an MT is different in the sense that I can't use the holder without a bit as a nut driver, but I will still manage to lose the one in my arc in no time!
Post by: Judith on February 19, 2024, 11:29:10 PM
Once I got home and messed with it for a while I’m actually really digging it. It almost doesn’t feel like a LM but something completely different. I knew going in it has somewhat of a underwhelming set up with no bit set attachment or the multiple flatheads but I have my trusty Surge for those needs. I love the way it feels in hand as well as it in the pocket, compared to my Surge I can barely tell it’s there.
I dabbled for a bit and pondered if I should just get the Arc as it’s really close to the P4 and includes some nice upgrades as well but I’m glad I picked it up.
Ill report back once I get some actual use time with it and see if I’m still liking it as much as I do now.
Post by: JonesE on February 20, 2024, 04:38:28 AM
Post by: Poncho65 on February 20, 2024, 04:18:38 PM
Post by: Legend on February 24, 2024, 08:57:34 PM
Post by: Judith on February 25, 2024, 03:07:04 AM
Still available on Amazon for anyone who is not aware.
Yep Amazon has them as well as Murdochs. My local Murdochs have quite a few P4/P2’s in stock, I have a 20% discount code so I think I’m going to go pick up a back up P4
Post by: JonesE on March 04, 2024, 06:16:01 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53567933530_0832697aa5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pBBEmS)
Post by: Crunchie64 on March 04, 2024, 07:06:40 PM
Got my P4 with me today.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53567933530_0832697aa5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pBBEmS)
Love that photo! Couple of great tools.
Post by: JonesE on March 04, 2024, 10:23:52 PM
Post by: Poncho65 on March 05, 2024, 02:00:03 AM
Post by: JonesE on March 05, 2024, 02:32:53 AM
Post by: FrenchEOD on April 06, 2024, 12:02:56 PM
I saw it at pretty good price in a store BUT
my question : is anyone have tried if the SOG bit kit adapter is compatible with the philips head on leaterman p2/p4 ? by looking picture it's seems it can work but before maybe buying it i prefer to know ???
Post by: Crunchie64 on April 06, 2024, 03:34:06 PM
Question about P2 gentleman's :hatsoff:
I saw it at pretty good price in a store BUT
my question : is anyone have tried if the SOG bit kit adapter is compatible with the philips head on leaterman p2/p4 ? by looking picture it's seems it can work but before maybe buying it i prefer to know ???
It does go on, but there is a lot of side to side movement.
If you just wanted to carry it for very occasional access to interchangeable bits, it’s worth a go. Certainly a fair compromise rather than paying at least twice as much for an Arc.