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Tool Talk => Swiss Army Knights Forum => Topic started by: Max Stone on June 08, 2019, 01:02:13 PM

Title: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 08, 2019, 01:02:13 PM
Victorinox have done a few SOS sets / Survival Kits over the years, pairing a SwissChamp with items considered essential if you’re lost in the woods.

I picked up 2 older examples yesterday of these kits. The boxes are pretty beat-up, but the kits and SwissCamps are unused.

The first is older, probably dating from around 1988-90 as it has the first-generation SwissChamp from that era. This is the smaller SOS kit in a 4.0567 pouch, noted as the A version in SAKWiki.

The second is a little newer, maybe around 1992-95 as it has the rather unique first-generation SwissChamp Timekeeper marked on the box as 1.8816 (Uhr). This is the double-pouch SOS kit marked 4.0568 on the back. This number is referred to as version B however version C is listed as the double-pouch kit...so maybe this is just an early version C, and version B does not exist?

The pics show these 2 kits and the vintage documentation. All the survival items are present.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 08, 2019, 01:16:04 PM
The older Survival Kit is quite compact, only a little bigger than a standard 4.0521.3 leather SwissChamp pouch. Weight 277g compared to 222g so certainly easy for belt EDC.

Hidden in various pouches is a compass, sharpening stone, brass clutch pencil, paper, plasters, needle and thread, anywhere strike matches, a couple safety pins and nylon string. It’s a good set of essentials.

While the pouch is leather, the inner pockets are vinyl or PVC and are beginning to perish after 30 years. Something I will need to repair one day but not super-critical as the items are all secure.

This is a nice-sized kit that is easy to throw in a bag or cubby-box.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 08, 2019, 01:34:15 PM
The newer kit appears similar to the current version sold by Victorinox. With a dedicated section for survival items, it adds a few more matches (now safety), a signal mirror, fishing kit, whistle, spare toothpicks and tweezers, and to remove leaves from your hair...a comb.

The compass ruler gets an upgrade with a magnifying glass and thermometer, and the writing paper now includes some knot tying guides and international distress signals.

Probably the most valuable upgrade is the addition of a MagLite Solitaire in a side pocket. The old incandescent AAA type with a spare bulb in the tail cap.

The stand-out feature of course is the SwissChamp. The TimeKeeper was quite unique and in many ways, a clock is an essential piece of survival gear if you were lost without a wrissmurfch, or heaven forbid, a mobile phone.

For me though, this kit is getting a bit large to carry on the belt, although at 354g is still not too heavy to toss in a bag.

Anyway, that’s my short write up of these two Survival Kits. Does anyone have some good stories to share using theirs?
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: EMZ on June 08, 2019, 02:21:55 PM
Not sure, but sometimes the survival kit was sold separately from the knife.
Don't know if the kit plus knife had a different number than the kit minus knife.

The compass device changed slightly over the years. If I'm correct it was just a very small change in the logo design.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 08, 2019, 02:34:03 PM
Hi EMZ. Yes, the current kit from Victorinox, the SOS Survival Kit with Double Leather Pouch (4.0568.3) is sold without the SAK knife. It has not changed in 20+ years if I compare the website pic below to what I have, maybe a cheaper metal for the pencil.  :think:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Myron on June 08, 2019, 02:40:05 PM
Great idea for a thread, Max!  I have a Survival kit that I bought brand new back in the day.  My sales receipt is dated Aug 15, 1989, in fact.  I no longer have the Swiss Champ that originally came in it, however.  When my own son was a wee laddie one of his Cub Scout buddies had one and lost it, so I gave him mine to replace it.  One of these days I should pick up a replacement specimen of the same vintage I suppose. 

I'll dig up my Survival kit today and post some pictures. 

Myron
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Aloha on June 08, 2019, 03:34:06 PM
I had both sheaths and both came with SAKs.  I really liked them but traded the dual sheath off.  I kept the single which is permanently on my hike pack.  Great write up. 
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 08, 2019, 04:54:42 PM
Great idea for a thread, Max!  I have a Survival kit that I bought brand new back in the day.  My sales receipt is dated Aug 15, 1989, in fact.  I no longer have the Swiss Champ...One of these days I should pick up a replacement specimen of the same vintage I suppose. 

I'll dig up my Survival kit today and post some pictures. 

Myron

Great comments Myron.   :like:

It’s so logical to extend the SwissChamp to a pouch with even more ‘tools’. A great talking point.

I’m busy detailing the many changes from the 1st gen SwissChamp that came with mine to the current SwissChamp I bought recently. Should make an interesting post.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 08, 2019, 04:56:15 PM
...Great write up.

Thanks Aloha.  :hatsoff:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: sir_mike on June 08, 2019, 05:13:49 PM
Great write up!

I have both kits NIB's but without the Swisschamps!  I don't own any Swisschamps at this time but I felt like I needed to keep the kits since to me they are somewhat unique and I guess think that they will be hard to find someday!   :cheers:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 08, 2019, 06:26:25 PM
You need at least one SwissChamp in your life sir_mike.  :pok:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: sir_mike on June 09, 2019, 05:46:27 AM
You need at least one SwissChamp in your life sir_mike.  :pok:

Yeah I had a few over the years but really never used them so I passed them along.  I do have a couple of the Champ Plus's so that is close right?  lol
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Aloha on June 09, 2019, 07:39:55 AM
Yes close enough for sure  :tu:. 
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Sawl Goodman on June 09, 2019, 09:39:47 AM
The little Maglite’s a nice touch. I had a Solitaire years ago and loved it.

I wonder how many of these kits are bought as gifts?
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 09, 2019, 09:48:42 AM
Those are awesome finds, Max! :like:

Shame about the liners. Maybe just cut the tattered liners out and glue in some new ones of you decide to utilize it? :dunno:

You need at least one SwissChamp in your life sir_mike.  :pok:
Hey now. His letting go of Champs allowed me to get one. :D

You're right though. Everyone needs at least one Champ. :iagree:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 09, 2019, 11:59:40 AM
Yes, I think gifts make up a good portion of sales. Means there’s maybe a few more unused boxes in draws and cupboards around the world.  :tu:

I’m handy with a thread and needle, so I’ll replace the pockets and restitch them when I get some time. Should get it back to original condition.  :salute:

So far, counted 30+ differences from the gen 1 SwissChamp to the current model. I think I’ll need to put it into a table...too much to do on my mobile.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 09, 2019, 12:08:36 PM
Looking forward to seeing how the restoration goes, Max! :like: :popcorn:

30+ differences? Oh dear. You've got your work cutout for you indeed. :ahhh  :popcorn:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Mechanickal on June 09, 2019, 02:50:24 PM
I have the older kit too, but my side compartiments are held closed by velcro rather than loops.
The storage liners appear to be more rigid too.
Maybe my sheath is the version B variant?
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 09, 2019, 10:14:43 PM
I have the older kit too, but my side compartiments are held closed by velcro rather than loops.
The storage liners appear to be more rigid too.
Maybe my sheath is the version B variant?

Is there a number stamped on the back of yours Mechanickal? Mine is stamped

Mod.dep.
4.0567
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 09, 2019, 10:16:16 PM
Looking forward to seeing how the restoration goes, Max! :like: :popcorn:

30+ differences? Oh dear. You've got your work cutout for you indeed. :ahhh  :popcorn:

Did I say 30?...

Sorry, I meant 60 differences  :pok:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Mechanickal on June 09, 2019, 10:40:06 PM
Is there a number stamped on the back of yours Mechanickal? Mine is stamped

Mod.dep.
4.0567
I'll check tomorrow ;)
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: EMZ on June 10, 2019, 12:05:31 AM
Did I say 30?...

Sorry, I meant 60 differences  :pok:

This unreal!
1. so many changes, and 2. you studied them all and shared the results with us!
Thank you so much. :like:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Buzzbait on June 10, 2019, 12:38:53 AM
Did I say 30?...

Sorry, I meant 60 differences  :pok:

Now that is thorough!!!!!    :hatsoff: :hatsoff: :hats off

But now you totally need to explain this ruler error on the newer SwissChamp. Is this like a known thing?
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 10, 2019, 02:52:22 AM
Is that all you could find, Max? :pok: :D

Seriously, that is impressively thorough and much appreciated.  :cheers:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 08:53:42 AM
Now that is thorough!!!!!    :hatsoff: :hatsoff: :hats off

But now you totally need to explain this ruler error on the newer SwissChamp. Is this like a known thing?

Thanks Buzz.  :hatsoff:

I noticed that the cm tick marks alignment with the scaler scallops were different, so used a digital caliper to check. I’ll take a photo tonight comparing the two and showing the discrepancy. I only have one modern SwissChamp, so won’t be able to tell you if this is a general feature. But once you see the ‘map’ of the tick mark/scallop relationship, it should be easy to compare.  :tu:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 09:07:03 AM
Thanks EMZ and GLBM.  :hatsoff:

And apologies for the few typo’s. I did not proof-read very well before publishing, but this is work in progress as I plan to add a few pictures in a column to the right, and maybe highlight the key differences that are easy visual identifiers.

I think Victorinox made most of the changes listed in the first few years of production. With enough sampling and some deductive reasoning, each change could be dated and this table could become a useful reference for dating SwissChamps. I don’t think we have a Chronological Project yet for this model?
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Mechanickal on June 10, 2019, 11:19:50 AM
Is there a number stamped on the back of yours Mechanickal? Mine is stamped

Mod.dep.
4.0567
Hard to read mine, but I do believe the markings are the same.

Like I said though, the storage and closing methods differ.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190610/ae92cfa0cf702017eb0ab308923199b7.jpg)
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 12:50:23 PM
Definitely better as less likely to perish over time. Do you know how old the pouch is?
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: EMZ on June 10, 2019, 02:41:14 PM
Small difference in the compass/ruler/magnifying tool.
The black cross is on the older models. Pic 1.
Text on backside of older model. Pic 2.

Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: EMZ on June 10, 2019, 02:46:27 PM
It’s rather complicated with these Survival/SOS sets. (As always with Vic…)
I have both sets. When you look at the manuals, then it gets complicated. The manuals of the sets list all the tools that are in the sets, supplementing the SwissChamp. So the list of the manual starts with the numbers of the tools that are on the Champ. But as the SwissChamp got more tools over time (from 29 to 33), the manuals of older and newer sets are different!
My small SOS set is originally for a SwissChamp with 29 tools.
My large SOS set is originally for a SwissChamp with 31 tools.

The two sets and accompanying knives in my collection are matching, but I’ve seen these SOS sets been offered without the correct Champ. The Champ knife was always a newer version.
Are these offerings not correct or even a fraud? No, I don’t think so. Because many of the SOS sets were sold separately, it is quit possible that the sets did not sell as well or as quick as the knives did. So the sets probably lingered for long times in the inventories of sellers. When after a few years somebody would buy a set with a Champ, a newer version of the Champ was inserted.
That is why I think you’ll find so many older sets with newer knives.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: EMZ on June 10, 2019, 02:47:49 PM
Here the manual of the SwissChamp belonging to the small SOS set.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 03:42:32 PM
I do agree about the SwissChamps’ being added in the retail store out of sequence with the SOS kits.  :iagree:

Some good info EMZ. I think my smaller kit is one of the early ones as the SwissChamp in it is 1st-gen with the narrow pliers and the owner I bought it from bought it new as a kit. It has the looped side flaps that were replaced with Velcro later.

I think between a few of us, there’s enough info to update SAKWiki with a dedicated page on these Survival Kits, what do you think?  :dunno:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: charlie fox on June 10, 2019, 04:22:11 PM
I so wanted one of these when they first came out! I saw the single pouch and thought it would be a great way to carry some basic supplies 24/7. But bills had to be paid, children had to be raised and Altoid kit had to be created, so alas, my dream was never to be fulfilled. Thank you for bringing a bit of the thrill of my younger days back :cheers:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 04:42:48 PM
The smaller kit seems the better choice. Shame they dropped it and only carry the double one now...and even this model seems to be missing from Vic’s website. Need to research this a little more...

One nice compact option that appears current is the Traveller Set (1.8726). No survival goodies, but pairs a Huntsman with a Maglite and compass. Probably room for a few bandaids inside. But does not have the same appeal as the original Survival Kits...
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Buzzbait on June 10, 2019, 05:09:12 PM

I think between a few of us, there’s enough info to update SAKWiki with a dedicated page on these Survival Kits, what do you think?  :dunno:

I'd love the see a section of wiki devoted to the survival kits. I've always thought of them as sort of the crescendo of the Swiss army knife. The ultimate realization of their purpose.

I'm afraid I don't have much to add in terms of knowledge. I do have a couple of SOS pouches on the way, which could prove useful, but no original full kits of anything.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Mechanickal on June 10, 2019, 05:48:17 PM
Definitely better as less likely to perish over time. Do you know how old the pouch is?
The Swisschamp dates to the early 90's, yet the previous owner said he used it "for some years" during work before switching to a Leatherman.
Maybe he got it NOS? :shrug:
The set is complete apart from 2 matches missing from the slip.

No damaged tools or dirt either, so I wonder what use it saw... If any
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 06:44:35 PM
I think most of these kits get ‘scavenged’ over time. Bandaid here, match there...

But I agree with you Buzz, these kits deserve better representation on SAKWiki. I think I may just put a page together and ask one of the administrators for their support.  :cheers:

Edit: just took some pics comparing the cm ruler errors, details to follow later.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 08:01:13 PM
Ok so I mixed up my columns.  :facepalm:  the current SiwssChamp I have has an accurate cm scale, but I did the photo comparison so here goes...

Here’s the setup. Red SC is 1988 vintage, black SC is new.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 08:03:37 PM
First up...inch scale. Both very close to perfect, less than 1/100th in error, so you’re good on this side of the ruler!
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 08:06:56 PM
Here’s the cm scale...the vintage Champ is 0.46mm short, which is quite a lot (5% on the first cm). The current model is OK-ish (0.24mm long)...
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 08:08:58 PM
Not much error? Well here’s the caliper set to 20mm to show the gap on both, you can judge...
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 08:12:37 PM
And here’s the two tips, so you can see the tic-marks alignment with the scallops...with this ‘mapping’ you can compare to your own and check if your ruler is accurate without needing to use a caliper. Ruler on the right is the modern (accurate) scale...also note the font difference!
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 08:31:43 PM
This table (now corrected  :tu: ) probably deserves it's own post, which I may do once I've made some reference shots. I've realized that there are many noticeable differences I've not seen listed elsewhere. I've highlighted in green the easy identifiers that help to narrow the manufacture date down somewhat, but I will need some help with some change-overs, like the change of the main blade tang thickness, when they added an integrated spacer at some point to the outer liner. I found a few more differences on the scissors and pliers that I was not expecting (will make reference photos for the new post), and other differences with the Phillips, cap-lifter, awl and spacers that are worth noting.  :salute:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: EMZ on June 10, 2019, 08:48:20 PM
If necessary, you can use my pictures and findings to fill the Sakwiki.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Buzzbait on June 10, 2019, 09:15:28 PM
Here’s the cm scale...the vintage Champ is 0.46mm short, which is quite a lot (5% on the first cm). The current model is OK-ish (0.24mm long)...

Well, at least on the new model, so you can file the end down until it's perfect?

This table (now corrected  :tu: ) probably deserves it's own post

Definitely deserves a post of its own. Highly worthy reference material.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 10:47:22 PM
If necessary, you can use my pictures and findings to fill the Sakwiki.

Thanks EMZ!  :hatsoff:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 10:50:18 PM
Well, at least on the new model, so you can file the end down until it's perfect?

Definitely deserves a post of its own. Highly worthy reference material.

...but then inch rule will be short...  :facepalm:

Definitely will put some info together and PM one of the SAKWiki admins. Especially as it seems Victorinox has now discontinued all of the survival kits.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: toolguy on June 10, 2019, 10:55:32 PM
I've liked the SOS kits since they were introduced.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 11:06:50 PM
Great selection toolguy  :like: I may just PM you with a few questions if the SAKWiki page for the SOS kits gets approved.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: toolguy on June 10, 2019, 11:14:31 PM
Great selection toolguy  :like: I may just PM you with a few questions if the SAKWiki page for the SOS kits gets approved.

Sure,no problem.

The SOS kit on the right at the bottom is actually a Work Champ with all of the SOS kit accoutrements.LOL
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 10, 2019, 11:17:12 PM
Thought it looked a bit taller.  :tu:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Ptisuisse on June 11, 2019, 11:37:01 AM
@ EMZ : fantastic piece of work mate ! kudos from Europe.

As a reward/eye candy, my own 50 cents :

Different ruler/compass, material is some sort of OD Vinyl.

Comb and fishing kit missing. Looking for them.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Ptisuisse on June 11, 2019, 11:52:52 AM
More pics of my own double-pouch SK. It is by no means original, I had to buy some spares to beef it up.
I believe most of the add-ons come from subcontractors and vary slightly over time.
The rigid cardboard store display is in my collection and provides for an interesting reference.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 11, 2019, 01:37:34 PM
@ EMZ : fantastic piece of work mate ! kudos from Europe.

As a reward/eye candy, my own 50 cents :

Different ruler/compass, material is some sort of OD Vinyl.

Comb and fishing kit missing. Looking for them.

Thanks Ptisuisse for this info.  :tu:

Is there a part number stamped on the back of the pouch? I’ve seen the green canvas pouch, but yours looks black (edit: dark green)? Do you have an idea of age of your kit?
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Ptisuisse on June 11, 2019, 02:32:30 PM
Thanks Ptisuisse for this info.  :tu:

Is there a part number stamped on the back of the pouch? I’ve seen the green canvas pouch, but yours looks black (edit: dark green)? Do you have an idea of age of your kit?
the back side says exactly :
Mod.dep
4.0568.04

(mod.dep. is short for modèle déposé which means registered design).
I bought that kit so long ago, in Germany I think. No idea of a date, sorry.
The pouch is your usual aged olive drab, just like old army stuff can be.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 11, 2019, 02:40:33 PM
Thank you Ptisuisse.  :tu:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Buzzbait on June 11, 2019, 03:14:13 PM
Does anybody know of PDF file for the SOS Kit instruction sheet, so one could print it out a fresh copy?
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 11, 2019, 03:19:13 PM
Did Adobe exist when Victorinox released the SOS kits?  :pok:

The instruction sheets I have for the single and double kits are NIB so I can scan on my flatbed and post as PDFs, but they are the 1st gen models.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Barry Rowland on June 11, 2019, 06:17:23 PM
Great thread!  These kits have always fascinated me.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 11, 2019, 08:24:35 PM
Thanks Barry...it gets better.  :hatsoff:

I have the green light to build a dedicated page on SAKWiki covering these kits, linked from the SwissChamp page. So something to look forward to.  :popcorn:

I did a  survival course in the military many years ago, so looking forward to adding some relevant details (and some opinions) about the individual contents of these kits. Should be a fun read.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Barry Rowland on June 11, 2019, 08:54:48 PM
 :like: That's great Max!  I'm looking forward to it!
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: maxt on June 12, 2019, 11:18:19 PM
Here’s the cm scale...the vintage Champ is 0.46mm short, which is quite a lot (5% on the first cm). The current model is OK-ish (0.24mm long)...

Great job, Max, on making the comparison chart.

An observation must be made, however about the Chinese calipers. I would not trust any caliper with plastic parts and digital indicator, their tolerance may be all wrong. Try mechanical one, if you have it. Also I would suggest to make measurement between the lines (cm or inch) not from the tip.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 12, 2019, 11:26:29 PM
Some good points maxt.  :iagree:

I do have an analogue caliper so will check again. I was more interested in the misalignment of the engravings against the start of the tool, than the actual accuracy of the spacing along the ruler...the tool is generally used to measure from the tip.

But thanks for the feedback  :hatsoff:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 12, 2019, 11:32:47 PM
Though, if the digital calipers show correct on one example, then they show incorrect on the next example(and the result is repeatable multiple times), one must assume one of the two scalers is incorrect.  :dunno:

Not that is all that important. I mean, who uses a SAK scaler to measure accurately to 0.5MM?  :dunno:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 12, 2019, 11:39:14 PM
 :tu:  :cheers:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: maxt on June 13, 2019, 12:04:17 AM
Not that is all that important. I mean, who uses a SAK scaler to measure accurately to 0.5MM?  :dunno:

I hate to confess, but I did it. Even used the mag glass to align the centers of the lines on the SwissChamp to the edges of the piece I measured.

I do have an analogue caliper so will check again. I was more interested in the misalignment of the engravings against the start of the tool, than the actual accuracy of the spacing along the ruler...the tool is generally used to measure from the tip.
The manual is very confusing - it is supposed that the measurement must be not from the tip, but from the bottom of the groove and the pensil tip  ))
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: gerleatherberman on June 13, 2019, 04:47:07 AM
I guess I take for granted that I usually always have a measuring tape or stainless pocket ruler with me.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on June 13, 2019, 06:56:18 AM
I hate to confess, but I did it. Even used the mag glass to align the centers of the lines on the SwissChamp to the edges of the piece I measured.
The manual is very confusing - it is supposed that the measurement must be not from the tip, but from the bottom of the groove and the pensil tip  ))

Like many, I don’t read manuals.  :facepalm:

The manual’s instruction introduces even more problems with accuracy.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Humayd A R Mahomedy on February 03, 2020, 04:19:24 PM
that's pretty darn cool Max,
i'm quite taken by these kits,having acquired an incomplete 1st gen kit last July. 
my kit is missing most of the stuff,i bought a sharpening stone and compass,and added a Maglite Solitaire.
the needle and thread,a single safety pin and some plasters were in the pouch.
i plan on getting the current gen for myself and my son later this year,and then looking for another 1st gen.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Rapidray on February 03, 2020, 04:47:15 PM
My SOS
Mine only has the compass on the ruler and the side flaps are not Velcro but tuck into leather loops. The SC is the older 4 line stamped blade. Any ideal on date or about when? No 1/2 mark after the 7
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on February 03, 2020, 08:47:25 PM
Very nice Humayd and Rapidray  :like:
The SOS kits are super cool.  :salute:

What is the pivot like on the pliers Rapidray?
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Rapidray on February 04, 2020, 01:07:34 AM
Pivot is solid - not quite sure what you are asking.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on February 04, 2020, 06:00:52 AM
Sorry, I did not explain very well.  :facepalm:

And the pdf I need is awol at the moment. But a good indicator of the very early SC is the shape of the plier pivot.  :salute:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: kamakiri on February 04, 2020, 06:33:46 AM
FWIW, I think the early kits sold with the knives were marked ‘(COLOR) SURVIVAL KIT’

I have one that’s ‘86 production from its original owner. Has the small ‘v’ tang stamp.

And I like your list of 60 changes, but I consider things like the grooved spring change to count as one change, but your list has it in 4 item places since you are counting both scissor and pliers for both the spring and tool groove.

Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Rapidray on February 04, 2020, 02:10:49 PM
Sorry, I did not explain very well.  :facepalm:

And the pdf I need is awol at the moment. But a good indicator of the very early SC is the shape of the plier pivot.  :salute:
All 3 of the SC have this style pivot. So there is shorter and smaller Phillips head judging from the gap between the tip and the magnifying glass.
Thanks for showing the photo differences!  :like: :cheers:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on February 04, 2020, 06:17:04 PM
This is the doc kamakiri mentioned. Lists key difference with cut-over dates where they're known. This can help date your SC. The green rows are the most common visual differences used.  :salute:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Huntsman on December 15, 2022, 04:36:14 PM
Hi Max, Knights and SOS Kit fans and owners,

I have just corrected what I believe to be a mistake in the Wiki on the SOS kit codes

We did have 1.8812 listed as the code for the dual pouch and unknown code for the SOS kit with maglite

Someone just made a post on Facebook for an SOS kit - with maglite - in its box - and its model code was 1.8812 which led me to check the Wiki and then do some more research on the net. 

I am now pretty sure that 1.8812 is the model number for the SOS kit with maglite and 1.8816 is for the dual pouch -
This makes sense numerically and ties in with your OP Max.
Also I believe suffix (Uhr) is the SuperTimer version of an SOS kit.

So I have updated the Wiki
https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=SwissChamp

Please chip in folks - if you have any other knowledge
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Barry Rowland on December 15, 2022, 07:04:36 PM
Thanks for your work Huntsman!  I love the SOS kits.  They mean adventure to me!!
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on January 03, 2023, 06:42:43 AM
Thanks Huntsman for for your tireless work on the Wiki. A good pickup on the SOS kit!
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Huntsman on January 04, 2023, 06:02:42 AM
Thanks Max and Barry for the appreciation   :tu:    ....   I am always on the lookout for updates, errors, enhancements !!
So your comments make it all worthwhile   :D   

To Barry - Yes the SOS kits are great, unique and fun -
Not sure I would ever use one in anger - If I am out hiking or climbing I tend to have my own safety and emergency gear (head torch, fitrst aid kit etc) and a smaller SAK. But the kit would be great for base camp.

I do have one SOS kit in my collection from 1986 ..... still in its box - So that is pretty special and unfortunately will have to stay as shelfware  :(
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: EMZ on January 22, 2023, 04:08:09 PM
A couple of years ago this set was offered for sale in the Netherlands. At that time I hdid not have not the necessary Euro's to buy. When I had, the set was already sold  :(
However, I saved this picture.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Barry Rowland on January 22, 2023, 04:58:10 PM
That's usually what happens to me when offers like that appear.  That's a beautiful set.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Huntsman on January 22, 2023, 11:55:06 PM
Wow - That is pretty special

EDIT: Hey - Can we put this piccie in the Wiki?
I guess it was originally someone else's - But is a pretty regular style image, so could use - I could credit eBay! ?  ???
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Rich S on January 23, 2023, 02:39:26 AM
It sort of tickles me that a comb would be considered a necessity in a survival package.  :)
I guess good grooming is needed everywhere.  :hatsoff:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Storm on January 23, 2023, 07:12:06 AM
It sort of tickles me that a comb would be considered a necessity in a survival package.  :)
I guess good grooming is needed everywhere.  :hatsoff:

But of course good sir, imagine if you didnt look like your photo when searchers found you, they might think you a scruffy imposter  :rofl:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: NeleDo on January 23, 2023, 09:03:59 PM
Hi Max, Knights and SOS Kit fans and owners,

I have just corrected what I believe to be a mistake in the Wiki on the SOS kit codes

We did have 1.8812 listed as the code for the dual pouch and unknown code for the SOS kit with maglite

Someone just made a post on Facebook for an SOS kit - with maglite - in its box - and its model code was 1.8812 which led me to check the Wiki and then do some more research on the net. 

I am now pretty sure that 1.8812 is the model number for the SOS kit with maglite and 1.8816 is for the dual pouch -
This makes sense numerically and ties in with your OP Max.
Also I believe suffix (Uhr) is the SuperTimer version of an SOS kit.

So I have updated the Wiki
https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=SwissChamp

Please chip in folks - if you have any other knowledge

I think you were on a right way but you somehow took a wrong turn...

1.8810 is a product number for Kit A and that's fine.
1.8812 is a product number used for both Kit B (Kit A + Maglite in slightly wider single pouch) and Kit C (dual pouch). I think the turning point was 1991 when they released Kit C (called Big Survival Kit) that replaced Kit B. Kit A was renamed to Small SOS Kit.
1.8816 is a product number for Kit C that contained a SuperTimer.

I'll write a more detailed post on those kits as soon as  I find some time.  :cheers:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Aloha on January 24, 2023, 07:01:28 PM
Who knew there was more to it that dual pouch and single pouch.  Y'all do such great work.  I am so thankful as I'm sure other are as well.  The bouncing of information back and forth to get it right is commendable. 

 :hatsoff:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Barry Rowland on January 24, 2023, 10:12:31 PM
 :iagree: I love seeing this stuff!  It's great to learn all of the different variations there are out there Vic wise.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Huntsman on January 25, 2023, 06:36:31 AM
I think you were on a right way but you somehow took a wrong turn...
.......

I reworked the section....
https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=SwissChamp

Better ?   ???
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: NeleDo on January 25, 2023, 12:27:32 PM
I reworked the section....
https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=SwissChamp

Better ?   ???

Looking great mate!  :cheers: I have some more info I need to revise before posting, to avoid any mistakes. In the meantime, here are the two photos of Kit A pouches, to fill in some blanks in SAKWiki Galery (my photos, my pouches, and my permission to use it in Wiki, as always)  :salute:
EDIT: What do you think of making a separate page for these Survival/SOS Kits? With some additional info I have, "You're gonna need a bigger boat"   :)
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Barry Rowland on January 25, 2023, 04:26:58 PM
I think a separate page would be a good idea.  There seems to be a lot of info on these to cover.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: NeleDo on January 25, 2023, 05:59:42 PM
Additional info posted in "Been doing some work in the Wiki" topic  ;)

https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,68075.msg2395736.html#msg2395736
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Huntsman on January 25, 2023, 10:24:03 PM
Thanks Nele

Yes this section certainly is growing - so  a separate page would be good - as we have to keep individual pages reasonably concise
And it's also always good to have non regular model pages in the Wiki for some nice variety

 I know Max was planning to do this and has even created the page - but not populated it yet ....... Max ?   :pok:   ???
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: toolguy on January 26, 2023, 03:58:06 AM
I bought my first SOS kit in the late 1980's.They pop up for sale quite often.

I was fortunate to find a few more and I'll post pictures when they become available.

Keep up the good work men.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on January 30, 2023, 09:18:43 PM
Thanks Nele

Yes this section certainly is growing - so  a separate page would be good - as we have to keep individual pages reasonably concise
And it's also always good to have non regular model pages in the Wiki for some nice variety

 I know Max was planning to do this and has even created the page - but not populated it yet ....... Max ?   :pok:   ???
…my bad 🙁 too many other things keeping me busy at the moment.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Huntsman on February 01, 2023, 06:58:24 AM
Hi Max

OK - That's fine - I hope you don't mind - But as you are busy - and we have had a flurry of information on the SOS kits - I had a crack at the new consolidated SOS page

Please review and feel free to comment or edit etc etc

https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=SOS+Kit

Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: NeleDo on February 02, 2023, 02:12:15 PM
…my bad 🙁 too many other things keeping me busy at the moment.

Don't worry, we all do when we can as much as we can.  :cheers:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on February 12, 2023, 09:57:41 PM
Hi Max

OK - That's fine - I hope you don't mind - But as you are busy - and we have had a flurry of information on the SOS kits - I had a crack at the new consolidated SOS page

Please review and feel free to comment or edit etc etc

https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=SOS+Kit

Hello Huntsman - the page is looking excellent!  :tu:  Very clean layout and well presented.
I think it's safe to remove the original content section and the under development references. I've checked all your part numbers and they all match the originals.
It's great to see the SOS Kit getting a promotion. A well-deserved place in SAKWiki.  :salute:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Barry Rowland on February 12, 2023, 11:45:27 PM
 :iagree: I've always been intrigued by them, especially being a big Swisschamp fan.  Nice work and thank you!
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Huntsman on February 20, 2023, 04:49:27 AM
Thanks Max and Barry     :tu:    :tu:    :tu:

The page is finished (at least for now)
I have added a few more image links  + a bit more information + minor formatting + removed all the 'old' text

Looks really good and thanks for kicking it all off Max    :D

EDIT PS: I think we should add another section with some of the accessory tool images from the first page - Is that OK?
I knew 'at least for now' would never be true - It lasted about an hour!!
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Barry Rowland on February 20, 2023, 03:02:11 PM
That sounds like a good idea! 
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: NeleDo on February 21, 2023, 06:20:10 PM
Adding accessories photos is a great idea. Unfortunately I don't own a single complete kit (just pouches and some of the original items)  :dunno:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Barry Rowland on February 22, 2023, 01:45:59 AM
You have me beat!  I just have the knives.  Glad to have them though!  :climber:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Buzzbait on February 22, 2023, 02:06:01 AM
Adding accessories photos is a great idea. Unfortunately I don't own a single complete kit (just pouches and some of the original items)  :dunno:

I believe that I have a complete NOS survival kit. I’ll try to take some pictures tomorrow.
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Buzzbait on February 22, 2023, 09:07:31 PM
Okay. Here's in IMGUR album of pics of a full SOS Kit (https://imgur.com/a/Jaf53u3/).

(https://i.imgur.com/pdUhcO9h.jpg)
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Buzzbait on February 22, 2023, 09:13:04 PM
Another album with pics of an older SOS pouch (https://imgur.com/a/5FWQHc8/).

(https://i.imgur.com/dIUbwAwh.jpg)
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Buzzbait on February 22, 2023, 09:25:40 PM
Yet one last album of a third SOS pouch (https://imgur.com/a/J7khcJ2/).

(https://i.imgur.com/Dg3C3u8h.jpg)
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Barry Rowland on February 22, 2023, 11:55:47 PM
 :like: :ahhh :like:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Huntsman on February 24, 2023, 02:17:31 AM
Wow - Those are great Buzzbait - Can I put some of them in the Wiki please
You would be credited as Buzzbait or whatever other name you prefer
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Buzzbait on February 25, 2023, 05:44:13 AM
Wow - Those are great Buzzbait - Can I put some of them in the Wiki please
You would be credited as Buzzbait or whatever other name you prefer

Feel free to use them in any way you wish. I’m very happy to help. :salute:
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Buzzbait on February 28, 2023, 07:55:08 PM
Check this one out!!!  I had a pay a bit, but it's a wonderful mint SOS Kit. Stare in wonder at those brand new fluffy Velco closures. As a cool bonus, there were even two sets of instructions in the box.

I think this is my favorite version of the SOS Kit. I really like the durability of whatever that synthetic green rubbery stuff is, mixed with the riveted loop on the back of the pouch. It's gonna be hard not to use this one.

Here's a link to the album (https://imgur.com/a/aCALf5n)

(https://i.imgur.com/4g5ENk7h.jpg)
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Barry Rowland on February 28, 2023, 09:47:14 PM
Now that's cool!!!  Great find!
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Aloha on March 01, 2023, 04:15:48 PM
 :like:  Awesome. 
Title: Re: SOS! Two vintage Survival Kits compared
Post by: Max Stone on March 17, 2023, 08:35:15 PM
 :like: Very, very nice! A great find  :drool: