Post by: Syncop8r on May 17, 2014, 03:05:34 AM
The tool loadout I am thinking of would be:
- Saw. A big one. If I could fit my Laplander in there, I would.
- Knife. I'm thinking of two blades - a bigger one for working with wood etc and a smaller one for... smaller stuff
- Awl. Never had one but I'm sure it would earn it's keep.
- Can opener - maybe. I don't usually take tinned food but you never know.
- Firesteel? I already have one but it would be cool to have one on a multitool.
Other considerations:
- Plier-based or not? I'm not sure if pliers will be handy out in the bush.
- Same with screwdrivers - maybe for fixing gear? If so, a bit driver might be the way as I already have the LM bit kit and bit driver extender.
In writing this I am realising that all these are not tools that I would use all the time, more if I had to employ a bit of bushcraft and make/fix something.
What tools would you want? Any ideas/suggestions greatly appreciated. :) :pok:
(By the way I don't hunt or fish)
Post by: nate j on May 18, 2014, 05:45:10 AM
I'm not sure pliers or a lot of screwdrivers are worth the weight on a hiking/camping tool, unless you have a some specific gear you might need to repair with them.
I don't know about a firesteel on a multi-tool, but you could certainly find a sheath that would hold both or attach them together with a lanyard...
Post by: dmanuel on May 18, 2014, 08:47:39 AM
I went with a Surge simply because it is everything a Farmer is and so much more. Add a skinth to the mix to easily carry a ferro rod, tinder, flashlight, and some spare paracord and you have a nice little set up. Could even through a very basic FAK in one and maybe add some DMT credit card sharpeners and call it a day.
Remember though, redundancy isn't bad. If you have a multitool modded to have everything in it and you lose that multitool then you can be up a creek. Easy to trip while hiking or wading and have it fall out of a pocket. Plus, using a ferro rod while your knife is attached to the other end may limit you in what you plan on using as a striker. All things to consider
Post by: Breezy12 on May 18, 2014, 09:13:45 AM
For me a Surge is always in my pack since it works great for flipping food on the grill, picking up hot pots or pans, and has even been put to use repairing a few things (bending tent poles, untying knots, etc) on the trail.
I always carry my Charge for camping/hiking/etc for some of the same reasons. The pliers come in handy more often than you might think; dmanuel already listed some of my favorite examples. :)
- Same with screwdrivers - maybe for fixing gear? If so, a bit driver might be the way as I already have the LM bit kit and bit driver extender.
I agree that the bit driver is the way to go here; plenty of versatility with not much added weight. I'll admit that I don't use the bit driver too often while camping, but I know it could be useful for fixing some of my gear (camp stove comes to mind).
The Charge/Wave models don't come stock with an awl, but it's fairly simple to remove the scissors and swap in an awl. The saw is very useful for its size, and the back side of the saw has a crisp 90-degree edge which makes it perfect for striking your ferro rod/firesteel. The diamond file is great for sharpening a camp axe or hatchet if you have one with you.
- Knife. I'm thinking of two blades - a bigger one for working with wood etc and a smaller one for... smaller stuff
I like to carry a fixed blade along with my Charge when camping/hiking for this very reason. :)
Post by: styx on May 18, 2014, 01:05:12 PM
just don't forget...
Post by: Syncop8r on May 18, 2014, 01:11:18 PM
How about a Victorinox Camper, Farmer, or Forester?I know nothing about SAKs so have checked those ones out (if I decide against pliers):
Camper - like, although I don't need a corkscrew - unless I could put something else in there. The Hiker (funnily enough) is more like it...
Farmer - only one blade, and is the awl OK in that position compared to ones in the middle?
Forester - only one blade, has corkscrew, BUT I do like the shape and larger size - I may look at others in this style (eg Trailmaster/Trekker)...
Do the blades and saws lock on all of these?
Post by: Syncop8r on May 18, 2014, 01:41:38 PM
Post by: Mike, Lord of the Spammers! on May 18, 2014, 01:46:32 PM
It is a brilliant bushcraft tool, I've been using Farmer since about 06 I think and they make a great woods knife that you can have on you all the time :)
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Post by: nate j on May 19, 2014, 01:48:11 AM
How about a Victorinox Camper, Farmer, or Forester?I know nothing about SAKs so have checked those ones out (if I decide against pliers):
Camper - like, although I don't need a corkscrew - unless I could put something else in there. The Hiker (funnily enough) is more like it...
Farmer - only one blade, and is the awl OK in that position compared to ones in the middle?
Forester - only one blade, has corkscrew, BUT I do like the shape and larger size - I may look at others in this style (eg Trailmaster/Trekker)...
Do the blades and saws lock on all of these?
Yes, if you like the Camper except for the corkscrew, the Hiker is the same knife with the Phillips screwdriver in place of the corkscrew. The corkscrew is good for more than just bottles of wine, though; it is great for loosening knots, which might come in handy when out hiking or camping.
As Mike said, the awl position on the end of the knife, as on the Farmer, is excellent, and actually superior to the back spring position for many tasks.
111 mm SAKs, like the Forester, have locking blades, but the 93 mm series (Farmer and similar) and the 91 mm series (Camper and similar) do not. None of these have locking saws.
Post by: Sazabi on May 19, 2014, 03:22:43 AM
Side thought: Metro, if you're reading this, would button snaps for side tubes be a possible option down the road, in lieu of velcro?
Post by: Syncop8r on May 19, 2014, 12:39:41 PM
I prefer the size and shape of the larger SAKs so either 111mm Victorinox like the Forester (if only it had a second blade...) or 130mm Rangergrip (ditto) or 130mm Rangergrip Wengers - especially after reading this:
In the 84/85/91mm category I prefer Vic for the better tools and ergonomy.I think I'd like a PE, OHO locking main blade.
In the larger 111/120mm category I prefer the Wengers for their larger blade, larger saw and their better and safer unlocking mechanism.
I wonder if any of these could be modded to get a second blade in?
EDIT: Wenger Ranger 58 looking good... :tu:
Post by: ducttapetech on May 19, 2014, 06:37:37 PM
Like a Mora and Huntsman. Or something like it.
live from Nate's mobile
Post by: ironraven on May 20, 2014, 05:30:04 AM
And your firesteel shouldn't be built into the tool- how would you scrape it?
As for pliers, yes, take pliers. Either a multitool or just regular pliers. I often find myself asking why I bother. Then I have to take something off the fire, deal with a hundred year old fence, or something. Never had to pull porcupine quills, but I've dragged some wopper big thorns out of myself.
My recommendations are a LM Rebar or ST300 (sorry, the lack of updated cutters keeps the Wave out and the Surge is just too fat), or a Farmer, Huntsman, Hiker or OHT with a small pair of pliers (or a classic PST).
But I also agree with the fixed blade recommendation. I trust my folders and multis with my life at times, but I also trust them to fail if too much force is put on them. Mora or CS Bushman, hard to get a 4"+ fixed blade for less than $30 that is any good but those two are pretty good. I also like the Old Hickory line for knives on a budget, but then you need to make a sheath.
Post by: comis on May 20, 2014, 07:58:53 AM
Saw: silkyboy
Knife: I usually go with one large blade(4-5 inch or longer if I intend to do a lot of chopping/clearing/batoning), along with a mid sized blade.
I do use and recommend Survive knives GSO4.1 or GSO5, and for mid size, 111mm OHO Trekker.
There are probably a zillion choice to choose from, Mora, Survive Knives, Condor, Becker, Bark River, etc...I like all of them, but in terms of best value to performance, it's hard to beat a Mora, my favorite Mora is Bushcraft survival. It has a good ferro rod and sharpening stone attached, thicker spine, black coated carbon steel, good balance in hand. Really a great combo with a price point hard to beat.
Awl: (covered by Trekker)
Can opener: (covered by Trekker)
Ferro Rod: (covered by Trekker)
Plier-based MT: If you are driving, then absolutely. If you are lugging everything with you, then I think one for the group is good enough. Some do use them for handling pot lid, but I much rather to take my leather gloves with me, and it could be useful when doing wood processing.
Screw driver: (somewhat covered by Trekker)
Post by: Luna Knife on June 09, 2014, 08:17:49 PM
Post by: Gareth on June 09, 2014, 10:21:05 PM
All that said; most of the time I am spending the night out I'll have a bahco saw, a 4" fixed blade and light axe, plus a Huntsman as a back-up.
Post by: Syncop8r on June 10, 2014, 08:42:38 AM
The Wenger Ranger 58 is a great knife for Hunting/Camping. no complaints at allMine will be here any day. :mail:
I generally don't make fires when I go hiking (we call it "tramping" here) or mess with trees in other ways (yet) so prefer not to take a saw unless I know for sure I'll be using it. But the saw, knife etc on my Ranger will be on hand just in case. :)
Post by: captain spaulding on June 10, 2014, 08:48:19 AM
As Nate said, it does go a lot with what else you have and what you really want to do. Personally I go with a SAK for the most part as it can be a stand alone tool. But then again many things can be like that with a little ingenuity
just don't forget...
Hey that's really not that bad of a idea. Yes I have been told I am redneck ish.
Post by: dork on June 26, 2014, 12:04:17 PM
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Post by: Zed on June 26, 2014, 12:39:33 PM
Post by: scattergun13 on June 26, 2014, 01:22:51 PM
I also take into consideration whether I'm actually hiking on foot or "car camping". Look closely at any Mora with a built in firesteel then back it up with a plier based MT. These various combos have served me well in the past in about any hiking/camping excursion. I also seem to almost always find myself in need of an awl for one reason or another. Good luck and remember, this is part of the fun. :cheers:
Stew...
Post by: Syncop8r on June 28, 2014, 09:53:15 AM
I got myself a Wenger Ranger 58 and I love it. (Nearly) Everything I want in one package.
Thanks for everyone's suggestions. :salute:
Post by: Gareth on June 28, 2014, 01:47:35 PM
Post by: Syncop8r on June 28, 2014, 11:33:39 PM
Post by: nate j on June 29, 2014, 06:11:41 AM
Good to hear you got yourself sorted out with something.+1.
You're stuck now, though; once you go SAK, you never go back. :cheers:
Post by: Syncop8r on November 16, 2014, 10:41:01 AM
Post by: zoidberg on November 16, 2014, 10:53:59 AM
Post by: nervium on November 17, 2014, 05:35:40 PM
Post by: cool123 on December 19, 2014, 11:45:51 AM
Post by: AimlessWanderer on December 20, 2014, 12:21:29 AM
But I personally think there are many options that would work well. As much as the BG pack with the Strata gets a lot of mocking, it is a rather complete kit that actually works quite nicely. That said it still probably wouldn't be my first option. Pliers are quite useful for pulling thorns out of soles, cutting and bending wire for improvising or fixing stuff, and also handling hot items. It's probably screwdrivers that are going to be less useful in an outdoors setting
Based on that, I'm going to suggest the Wenger Rangergrip 90:
Very visible tool if dropped in long grass or at night
Good grip in wet conditions
The most capable saw you are going to find on any multitool
Very capable one handed knife
Fantastic awl
Light to medium duty pliers
Can opener
Wood/Metal file with metal saw
... and still has screwdriver capabilities with standard hex bits
Yep, I think the Rangergrip 90 has everything you need for the outdoors, though a smaller SAK with scissors in the FAK wouldn't go amiss ;) I'm very glad I managed to get one when I did :)
Post by: Syncop8r on December 20, 2014, 12:30:48 PM
I decided early on that I didn't want pliers, although others may get more mileage out of them.
The main things are the big saw and decent blade. I made try to swap the gutting blade for something more useful (for me) one day.
I decided against a bit driver as one could easily lose the bits.
Hopefully I will get to use it on some hikes in the next couple of weeks.
Post by: cool123 on December 29, 2014, 11:42:32 AM
Post by: cool123 on January 21, 2015, 06:21:57 AM
Post by: cool123 on January 30, 2015, 07:07:58 AM
1. Sleeping Bag
2. Best Survival Knife
3. Rope
4. food
5. Survival boots
6. Multitools
7. Machete
8. Survival kit
Post by: nervium on March 01, 2015, 03:07:41 PM
Post by: cool123 on March 24, 2015, 06:11:23 AM
Post by: Obi1shinobee on March 28, 2015, 02:55:24 AM
As Nate said, it does go a lot with what else you have and what you really want to do. Personally I go with a SAK for the most part as it can be a stand alone tool. But then again many things can be like that with a little ingenuity
just don't forget...
:drool: :rofl: :gimme:
Post by: BASguy on March 28, 2015, 04:45:09 AM
you won't need pliers or bit drivers while camping. get a strong knife. i have a great collection, but i always i go with gerber bear grylls scout knife with sheath, trustable on field, i took skeletool cx or st 200 but i rarely took them out from my back pack.
I've been a camper for many years. I can't even begin to recall the multitude of times I've used full size pliers and since the 80's, multitool pliers when camping. It's true I don't use them frequently, but I do use them occasionally. To me that's reason to always have them. That's not even considering how great SAK pliers are as tweezers. Try digging out cactus needles with a 6" camp knife and you will never go without some type of plier loaded tool again
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Post by: Obi1shinobee on March 29, 2015, 08:06:15 PM
you won't need pliers or bit drivers while camping. get a strong knife. i have a great collection, but i always i go with gerber bear grylls scout knife with sheath, trustable on field, i took skeletool cx or st 200 but i rarely took them out from my back pack.
I've been a camper for many years. I can't even begin to recall the multitude of times I've used full size pliers and since the 80's, multitool pliers when camping. It's true I don't use them frequently, but I do use them occasionally. To me that's reason to always have them. That's not even considering how great SAK pliers are as tweezers. Try digging out cactus needles with a 6" camp knife and you will never go without some type of plier loaded tool again
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:salute: :tu:
Post by: Gareth on March 30, 2015, 12:06:23 AM
Post by: captain spaulding on March 30, 2015, 12:15:57 AM
I've got to say that cactus needles aren't all that common a problem when hiking in Scotland. :D Rain, yes. Cactus, no.
I would take rain and cactus over poison oak any day. Hate that stuff. :ahhh
Post by: BASguy on March 30, 2015, 03:02:53 AM
I've got to say that cactus needles aren't all that common a problem when hiking in Scotland. :D Rain, yes. Cactus, no.I'm guessing the whole kilt thing would have never really taken off if you'd had these fellas growing out of the hills
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Post by: Obi1shinobee on March 30, 2015, 04:08:53 AM
Post by: ducttapetech on March 30, 2015, 11:48:26 AM
Nate
Post by: Obi1shinobee on March 30, 2015, 11:57:05 AM
Nice. I like that ferro rod.
Nate
My favorite fire rod.. Got signal , compass , thermometer , I add whistle :drool:
Post by: Gareth on March 30, 2015, 06:23:37 PM
Now there's a nasty thought! :oI've got to say that cactus needles aren't all that common a problem when hiking in Scotland. :D Rain, yes. Cactus, no.I'm guessing the whole kilt thing would have never really taken off if you'd had these fellas growing out of the hills
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Post by: Obi1shinobee on March 30, 2015, 10:15:28 PM
Nice. I like that ferro rod.
Nate
i just order another fire rod like that
Post by: Higgins617 on March 30, 2015, 10:28:22 PM
I've got to say that cactus needles aren't all that common a problem when hiking in Scotland. :D Rain, yes. Cactus, no.
I would take rain and cactus over poison oak any day. Hate that stuff. :ahhh
If I look at the woods I end up with poison something. Every year!!! :rant:
Post by: Obi1shinobee on March 31, 2015, 01:31:29 AM
I've got to say that cactus needles aren't all that common a problem when hiking in Scotland. :D Rain, yes. Cactus, no.
I would take rain and cactus over poison oak any day. Hate that stuff. :ahhh
If I look at the woods I end up with poison something. Every year!!! :rant:
Snake bite? :think:
Post by: BASguy on March 31, 2015, 01:51:45 AM
I don't try to kiss them and they don't try to bite me. However, rattlesnake is damn tasty.I've got to say that cactus needles aren't all that common a problem when hiking in Scotland. :D Rain, yes. Cactus, no.
I would take rain and cactus over poison oak any day. Hate that stuff. :ahhh
If I look at the woods I end up with poison something. Every year!!! :rant:
Snake bite? :think:
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Post by: rescue4500 on April 10, 2015, 05:28:17 PM
Post by: Luna Knife on April 10, 2015, 06:08:38 PM
I always carry a swiss camper and a leatherman rebar.. only thing ive used the lm for is to carve my and my wifes name on a big rock along a trail.
What tool did you use on the rebar to carve on rock?
Post by: rescue4500 on April 10, 2015, 06:12:57 PM
Post by: Scorpion Regent on December 27, 2016, 11:58:58 AM
As far as bit drivers go I think carrying a bit assortment backpacking is inviting Murphy along for the trip. Unless you absolutely need a bunch of small steel bits waiting to get scattered and lost don't bring them. A bit driver is fine in a EDC bag that gets carried from the car to the shop, to the job site, to home. Ask yourself, Do you really need a bit driver when you have screwdrivers all ready built into your MT? What are you carrying with you that will requires a specialized bit? Backpacking is the definition of simplicity. If you don't need it, don't bring it. Good skills will serve you better than extra tools. There is nothing like the sense of pride and accomplishment felt after MacGyvering up a repair in the field with minimal tools. The adventure is not having the coolest stuff, it's getting it done.
Post by: ThePeacent on December 27, 2016, 01:56:38 PM
(http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t562/ThePeacent/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-12/20161223_132930_zpskozaw6tj.jpg)
Post by: Fortytwo on December 27, 2016, 05:13:04 PM
As handy as the pliers and the file of my older Gerber MP600 are, it weighs a lot. If you are marching any distance remember that a once in the house is pound on the trail, so pack accordingly. So far I have been able to get buy with my Victorinox German army issue knife. A fire steel is a must have, but close at hand, not attached to a multi tool. For a larger fixed blade knife I have a KaBar, I haven't used it in over ten years. Every one loves Moras and they're fine, but I never saw the need to buy one.
As far as bit drivers go I think carrying a bit assortment backpacking is inviting Murphy along for the trip. Unless you absolutely need a bunch of small steel bits waiting to get scattered and lost don't bring them. A bit driver is fine in a EDC bag that gets carried from the car to the shop, to the job site, to home. Ask yourself, Do you really need a bit driver when you have screwdrivers all ready built into your MT? What are you carrying with you that will requires a specialized bit? Backpacking is the definition of simplicity. If you don't need it, don't bring it. Good skills will serve you better than extra tools. There is nothing like the sense of pride and accomplishment felt after MacGyvering up a repair in the field with minimal tools. The adventure is not having the coolest stuff, it's getting it done.
I tend to agree although I'm not really a friend of the 111mm size from Victorinox, there's too much distance from my hand to the edge for my liking.
I would also add that it just might be worth it to replace the screws on gear to avoid having to carry three different sizes of Torx.
Post by: gene stoner on February 13, 2017, 06:35:24 PM
I don't use all the tools all the time but they're there when I need them.
Post by: lurkee on March 10, 2017, 03:40:24 AM
Post by: Syncop8r on March 10, 2017, 08:57:38 AM
Post by: Gareth on March 10, 2017, 09:50:57 AM
No need to do anything with wire where I go hiking.
plus the fact fences are often owned but someone. ;)
Post by: Syncop8r on March 10, 2017, 10:37:22 AM
What tools would you want? Any ideas/suggestions greatly appreciated. :) :pok:
I guess to be fair I did ask...
Post by: Syncop8r on March 10, 2017, 10:38:21 AM
:nanadance: :nanadance:
Post by: Dwest on March 18, 2017, 03:12:31 AM