Multitool.org Forum
Tool Talk => General Tool Discussion => Topic started by: damota on March 01, 2008, 04:09:17 PM
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Sorry for the length of this post but this has been bugging me for a while.
I always thought Tactical was to do with the tactics that are less than strategic planing used by the military (or police, fire, ambulance or other public service organization). So what the heck does tactical knife mean apart from a ploy to make 90% of the knives that have this name tagged on sell to a public that think because they are known as tactical they will be stronger and better made. So if it means useful to the military it is going to mean fixed blades or really speSmurfpillst folders like the SOG Pentagon (police or military back up knife useless for anything but stabbing with a better than average blade lock) or Gerber Hinderer (strong and with extra tools for emergency personnel). A fixed blade will always out perform a folder so the rest IMO are just gimmicks. As far as Multi-tools are concerned that would include Sog and Gerber EOD and mine clearance models but no others. They might be useful but they were not just thought out to do that job.
Of course there is the use of tactical voting were people vote for a party that has no chance of winning just to kick the party in power to think a bit and change some of their ways before the next election or they will be out. So does it now mean something well thought through to gain an advantage. If that is the meaning being used well I would say that covers just about every decent knife made. Vic, Wenger would be tue tactical knives (they are all well designed and one model of each company was/is used by the military) but they are never called tactical.
I have read (mainly from other Brit members) about the Spiderco UK knife and the Buck X-tract looking too much like a tactical knife and I just can not understand were that comes from because I think of the military planning definition not the well thought out one. Even if they are using the well thought out definition and both of those are well thought out, one to be designed with guidance by UK members of BKCG and the home office to be a quality knife within UK law and the other as a decent bladed knife with multi-tool features although not so great in quality in the same market as the CRKT Zilla and the new Wenger models.
Dave
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Dave,
Yes it all a marketing ploy. I am on a SWAT team and we always joke that if we were to market anything we would paint in black, call it tactical, and have it made in Israel...IT WILL SELL.
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Tactical is a fancy 3 dollar word for black.
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Slightly OT, but has anyone here been more tempted to buy something because it has been called tactical?
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Slightly OT, but has anyone here been more tempted to buy something because it has been called tactical?
Actually quite the opposite, I refuse to buy anything called "tactical".
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When I first started getting back into knives I admit I was drawn by the mystical "Tactical" side of knives. As I became more learned and actually handled and bought some knives "tactical" was a word I simply passed over. If a knife does what I need it to do, is easily sharpened(I use a belt sander though), and repeatedly withstands what I ask of it, then I don't care what its name/classification is.
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Slightly OT, but has anyone here been more tempted to buy something because it has been called tactical?
As far as I am concerned you are right on topic. I think 'Tactical Knife' has/is attracting the wrong kind of people into buying knives. They see them not as a tool but as a weapon and in the UK that is what the few are buying them for and to loose the stigma now attached to knife ownership many who if they had a suitable knife would find it as useful as we do, not only will not buy one (and end up borrowing mine) but frown on those that do.
I think the 'Tactical Knife' phrase has not only turned people off buying a knife (I do not buy coated blades of any colour (including plated) I want to see the colour of the steel and wonder what they are hiding behind that coating.) but has helped turn the public from knife ownership.
Dave
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I agree. Tactical knives really are meant for LEO, military, or emergency response crews. I think tactical has been mixed into survival and I don't agree with that.
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The only thing Tactical means to me is that is was either designed with the intent to sell to military/law enforcement or it is marketed as such. The word doesn't carry any positive or negative connotations to me, it's just another category people like to lump items into to sell them.
That said, a lot of the gear I buy has the word attached to it. Backpacks, flashlights, knives, and multi-tools have all been labeled as tactical when I've purchased them but that designation doesn't have any bearing on my purchase or use of the item.
I understand why items sell when they are labeled that way too, not a lot of men pretended to be office workers when they were boys.
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I understand why items sell when they are labeled that way too, not a lot of men pretended to be office workers when they were boys.
Even those of us who ended up being office workers don't have much interested in Tac-Blac (or Blac-Tac, I always get them confused) crap.
To just solve Damota's question (I think there was a question, I skim read) - Yes, Tactical is sales rubbish.
I was around before Metal Gear Solid, and I never collected GI-Joes. I hold to the Indiana Jones school of Preparedness.
Drab, Comfortable, and ready with a one-liner.
Webbing and Black Kydex would not assist me.
'course, my country's culture backs me up on this, we like browns, wide brim hats, and simple but effective tools.
Yuessayans, with their "Navy SEALs" and their Jason Bourne, are bred to believe in Tac-Blac, some poor lad buying a 'chopper don't know no better.
(apparently this is a pic of the Australian SAS
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/80sct.JPG)
Black on white buildings and dead grass.
Very sneaky boys!
Anyway, back to the topic at hand -
Are cool knives, "tanto" edges, assisted opening (Face it), and most paramount - black knives any more useful than any other knife?
Probably, if you wanted to stab someone, 'cause they look scary, but other than that, shove it in your dilly bag.
Now, onto Damota and his issue with "definitions"
Yeah, your Oxford dictionary has no currency with (and this is what it says on my card) "Business & Marketing Development Manager"s
Anyway, I've got a can of Matt Black machinery paint here, I'm off to make my Pioneer a Tactical Survival Demolitions Special Forces Edition Terrorist Prevention Tool.
(Is there a smiley for being a huge ColorFul Enunciation?)
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For me personally, the word "tactical" means nothing, when it comes to making a purchase. In my opinion it's simply marketing hype as others have stated. On the other hand my cat Sam is both "tactical" and "stealth" because he's all black, has sharp pointy claws, razor sharp teeth, quick and quiet (most of the time), though he wasn't made in Israel. ;)
Mike
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Are those Mag Lites fixed on the top of their MGs? :think:
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I don't mind if something is labeled tactical or not. What matters most to me is function. If I get a knife that is made of a non-stainless steel I'd prefer a coating on the blade. I don't want the coating because of it's tactical nature, but because it serves a purpose to help prevent corrosion. Would I like the coating on a stainless blade? Probably not.
I recently picked up a Maxpedition backpack to use this year for fishing. I would say these bags are marketed from a military tactical position. That's not the reason I bought it. I've heard great things about their durability and that's what is important. If I was to dismiss the bag because of marketing strategy I would have missed out on a really nice bag. You don't have to get tactical black. I got it in a nice khaki color.
I guess what I'm saying is don't let a company's advertising lingo influence you either way. I know a lot of people can't stand Cold Steel knives because of their marketing. Me and a friend have been trying to kill his SRK for years now with no luck. We have never had to de-animate a car hood but it has survived just about everything else.
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"Stainless Steel" and "Blade" are somewhat contrary notions. (At least in practice, if not actually crossing whatever boundaries they have set up to define the qualities and percentages of "stainless steel" )
Broadly speaking - The better the blade, the less stainless the steel.
Take that as the inaccurate generalisation that it is.
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What does "Tactical" mean? On average a 60% higher price tag and 180% increase in sales! :D
Fortunately the "Tactical" mentality is starting to have run it's course as less and less people are falling for it and realizing that "Tactical" often means "overpriced crap."
Def
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I'm with DTH on this. I am slightly put off if something is labelled as being "tactical" as that, to me, makes me think of cheap, plasticy, tacky crap. I prefer more traditional looking tools, although if function is gained by this "tactical" appearance I can live with it.
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The Benchmade Griptilian, amongst other, gains some rep as a handy knife, (at least, Hawk seems to think so), regardless of Tac effects.
The Issue, I suppose, is when you stop selling a knife with Tac, and start selling Tac that happens to have a knife on it.
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To me, being a cynical bugger 'tactical' means a manufacturer can spray a blade black and sell it to gullible soldier wannabes for an extra £30.
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"tactical" is right up there with "new and improved" and "green" Now let's come out with a knife or tool that is a tactical knife with a new and improved design that is green manufactured.
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"tactical" is right up there with "new and improved" and "green" Now let's come out with a knife or tool that is a tactical knife with a new and improved design that is green manufactured.
Theres an idea - If we get a load of Opinel knives (you can't get much greener than them), paint them black with a small Multitool.org sticker on the side and sell them as Super Green Tactical Knife or SGTK at twice the price? Could get you a bit of bandwidth Def.
Dave
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Theres an idea - If we get a load of Opinel knives (you can't get much greener than them), paint them black with a small Multitool.org sticker on the side and sell them as Super Green Tactical Knife or SGTK at twice the price? Could get you a bit of bandwidth Def.
Dave
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I love it! Something to snicker at! >:D :D Let's do it! :pok:
Chap
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We need to put big toothy serrations and an impact tip on it to.
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Slightly OT, but has anyone here been more tempted to buy something because it has been called tactical?
Actually quite the opposite, I refuse to buy anything called "tactical".
I have to agree "tactical" products seem to be aimed at the "mall ninja" with very practical use except making you look like a saddo /potential serial killer
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I'm not sure the Green and Tactical markets overlap very far.
What the hell is a Saddo?
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I'm not sure the Green and Tactical markets overlap very far.
What the hell is a Saddo?
Sure it will. Just call it a hybrid.
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I also think it is a "Gone Wild" sales pitch; "Hurry...Hurry...Hurry, get your tactical snake oil kiddies!" and it really turns me off a purchase.
and the more tactical it is, the more gimmicks, the more stu....foolish it looks.
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We need to put big toothy serrations and an impact tip on it to.
And also some angry looking black FRN or G10 on it somewhere.
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We need to put big toothy serrations and an impact tip on it to.
And also some angry looking black FRN or G10 on it somewhere.
And a Skull Krusher pommel!
This can go on forever :ahhh
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And also some angry looking black FRN or G10 on it somewhere.
Ah! It wood not be green then. (misspelling intended) ;)
Dave
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I made a Kydex sheath for my tactical potato peeler. :D