Multitool.org Forum
Tool Talk => Swiss Army Knights Forum => Topic started by: Rizio Il Ghiro on May 04, 2022, 11:28:02 PM
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Just had an email from Victorinox announcing a new replica 1897 coming on 10 June….. wonder what it’ll cost? Probably too much for me! :rofl: Here’s the details so far https://www.victorinox.com/uk/en/Replica%C2%A01897/cms/replica-1897
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Just had an email from Victorinox announcing a new replica 1897 coming on 10 June….. wonder what it’ll cost? Probably too much for me! :rofl: Here’s the details so far https://www.victorinox.com/uk/en/Replica%C2%A01897/cms/replica-1897
I'll join you on the poor peoples step ::)
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God I wish it wasnt a limited edition :cry:
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Looking very forward to what price point they will want. Exciting though to see a replica item, since a genuine item would be too difficult to find.
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Interesting move from them, seems to follow Leatherman with their Limited PST release a few years ago. My take on it: Make the nice expensive limited edition models with lovely box and numbers, but also release a "normal" version sans numbers and fancy box for us who would want to use it. Updated metals and assembling techniques should be nice.
Pete
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I have a 1942/M1908, which is close enough for me. And, despite being nearly worn out (especially the blade), I can't complain for $15.
I'm curious on the price too. If it's $100 or less, I'm game for one, as so far, I've had no luck finding an original officer's knife. My oldest Wenger is a small single-blade from the Tahara era, my oldest Elsener a 1942, and my oldest 91mm from '57-61.
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:ahhh :ahhh :popcorn:
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Just had an email from Victorinox announcing a new replica 1897 coming on 10 June….. wonder what it’ll cost? Probably too much for me! :rofl: Here’s the details so far https://www.victorinox.com/uk/en/Replica%C2%A01897/cms/replica-1897
Thanks for the heads up; color me interested!
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The 125th Anniversary Heritage limited edition of the Soldiers' knife seems to have been for sale at about $500.... but is on eBay for $1300, so I presume this one will be in the same ballpark.
A real shame, as I'd also have been interested in a non-limited replica.
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I ordered mine over a year ago :D
A friend saw the prototype
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The 125th Anniversary Heritage limited edition of the Soldiers' knife seems to have been for sale at about $500.... but is on eBay for $1300, so I presume this one will be in the same ballpark.
A real shame, as I'd also have been interested in a non-limited replica.
:iagree: :iagree:
Although for some reason I seem to fancy this one more than the Soldier replica
Can't wait to see the pics or hear from someone (Mr E ???) when he receives his!!
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Thats the original.
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Aawwwww……. Thanks for sharing that, Ulli! :drool:
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:iagree: that’s a real beauty :tu:
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Okay, colour me interested :oops:
Hopefully they go for profit through quantity not scarcity...
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I heard it's going to be $750 in the U.S. I don't know if it's carbon or stainless steel. I would rather have a real period piece but not really interested in that era of knife
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I heard it's going to be $750 in the U.S. I don't know if it's carbon or stainless steel. I would rather have a real period piece but not really interested in that era of knife
Welp, that prices it out of most people's reasonable reach, with that kind of pricing it has to be a small run.
idk why they don't just make it a regular run with a small premium over the modern models. They already have to work out the tooling to make them anyway :dunno:
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:iagree: out of my price range
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Very interesting but at $750 I'll pass.
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If it is indeed $750 that would be outrageous, but what's a SAK addict to do?
The last few LE's have been a disappointment to me, but this knife looks really cool and seems truly inspired. I'll probably cave and pick one up.
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It is expected to be around 500Euro. Possibly a bit more.
The dealers will have these models displayed in a special glass cabinet, so it is considered quite an important release, definitely more significant that the yearly Damascus models.
Now,
The previous Heritage model went through a weird phase where it was after, a year, selling on Amazon.us for less than it cost to buy new (306 USD in 2013), as it appears that in some countries there was a lot of unsold stock left.
The prices did go up after a few years but considering the number of years it has been out of production and the fact that it was a very significant limited release the current, about double accounting for inflation really, prices are not that impressive, from a collectible point of view.
Possibly the release of this model my push up the old heritage model prices too.
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They are Swiss. They are masters of Veblen goods, such as their premium watches, that are less accurate than the cheapest Casio.
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They are Swiss. They are masters of Veblen goods, such as their premium watches, that are less accurate than the cheapest Casio.
Στάλθηκε από το MAR-LX1A μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
Is that really true? That is crazy
Talking of crazy - That price is ridiculous - How can it possibly be justified - Although if they have to set up a whole new tooling line (or two) in the factory - I gues that would be pretty exp.!!
Also keen to know the markup (50%?) - Something that alwys p1sses me off - especially for the online retailers who can have much overhead!!
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Thats the original.
Whoa - Six turn corkscrew - I thought we only had four and five!!!
That is a beauty Ulli - What year is it from please? - I know you'll know :pok: :D - Or at least have a range :tu:
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Is that really true? That is crazy
The population as a whole moved to quartz movements because they were both cheaper, and more more accurate. It's not uncommon, or even regarded as a bad thing, for mechanical watches to lose or gain 8 seconds+ a day. Getting high accuracy out of a mechanical is expensive and in a very real sense, when you get up there they start caring more about the jewelry factor more than the accuracy of the time piece.
Personally, when I can afford nicer watches I'm just going to get Japanese market Citizens and Casios, super nice looking but still accurate and full of features :dunno:
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Ah - Thanks GF - I see now - The electronic/quartz vs traditional mechanical movements
Agreed - All the features are great on the electronic - If no so beautiful looking !!
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Ah - Thanks GF - I see now - The electronic/quartz vs traditional mechanical movements
Agreed - All the features are great on the electronic - If no so beautiful looking !!
Yeah, I also wear my grandfathers watch occasionally (although these days I mostly wear a smarsmurft). Don't know how old it is, but I have it now for 30+ years.
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Neat!
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The population as a whole moved to quartz movements because they were both cheaper, and more more accurate. It's not uncommon, or even regarded as a bad thing, for mechanical watches to lose or gain 8 seconds+ a day. Getting high accuracy out of a mechanical is expensive and in a very real sense, when you get up there they start caring more about the jewelry factor more than the accuracy of the time piece.
Personally, when I can afford nicer watches I'm just going to get Japanese market Citizens and Casios, super nice looking but still accurate and full of features :dunno:
:iagree: I love my Citizens. I have 3 (but can't find one :bnghd: :rant:)
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They are Swiss. They are masters of Veblen goods, such as their premium watches, that are less accurate than the cheapest Casio.
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I'll NEVER knock Casio watches. I got one in the mid 1980's, and it finally stopped working 4 years ago. Not bad for a 19.95 cheap digital.
I replaced it with a 14.95 Casio plain analog watch since I wanted just a more basic timepiece. Its been second accurate for the time I;ve had it. Cheap, accurate, rugged, and water proof. What more can I ask?????
I had a high end Seiko. PITA. Worked fine for a couple years, then needed an expensive cleaning every year to keep it going. Gave it away.
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Maybe I should move this thread to the Watch It board? ??? :pok: ;) :o
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I think Casio are amazing value for money. My cheap £7.99 I use for work has been fantastic. When the battery gave up 18mths later it seemed cheaper to just buy another. Amazon couldn’t supply for 2wks plus the price had increased so I chose a alternative style (£46) because it had a 10yr battery. However after arrived it seemed sacrilegious to abuse it at work, so I got a cheap variety pack of watch batteries from the supermarket (£1.75) and replaced my old battery!! My new Casio is for weekend wear :rofl:
I know watches are hugely personal but I love my new one…cheap as chips!!
Sorry for derailing the thread.
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Here's a video on it from Vic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAG3PVditwQ
and another one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPtdKzWDTCk
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Thanks for sharing those, Huntsman - I did fear for her nails when she started opening the blades!!
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Whelp, I guess I have another knife I need to buy!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Here's a video on it from Vic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAG3PVditwQ
Thanks! I finally learned how to use the old style can opener...
:facepalm:
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A gift for us huh? So surely it will be reasonably priced, right? :facepalm:
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A gift for us huh? So surely it will be reasonably priced, right? :facepalm:
Apparently, the swiss use the same word for reasonably and outrageously.
:whistle:
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Thanks for sharing those, Huntsman - I did fear for her nails when she started opening the blades!!
My '42 M1908 destroyed my thumbnail the first time I opened it. They don't make them like that anymore! Since the blade on mine is worn down to a stub, I'm planning on having a new blade installed and going with Walnut scales. Basically--it will end up looking sort of like an M1908. Victorinox has been shown in "How It's Made" type shows rebuilding M1908s, but the US division won't do it (guessing only the Swiss have the stuff to do it with); and Rothlisberger in Switzerland will rebuild them as well (if so, I'm going with stag horn handles). However, I know a guy here in the States who has made new blades for knives he's restored, so I'm contacting him first.
I think Casio are amazing value for money. My cheap £7.99 I use for work has been fantastic. When the battery gave up 18mths later it seemed cheaper to just buy another. Amazon couldn’t supply for 2wks plus the price had increased so I chose a alternative style (£46) because it had a 10yr battery. However after arrived it seemed sacrilegious to abuse it at work, so I got a cheap variety pack of watch batteries from the supermarket (£1.75) and replaced my old battery!! My new Casio is for weekend wear :rofl:
I know watches are hugely personal but I love my new one…cheap as chips!!
Sorry for derailing the thread.
A friend of mine had a basic model for over 20 years and it worked great .
When I needed a watch with a stopwatch funciton, I almost got a G-Shock (the cheapest one), and then just got cheap and bought an F-105 for like ten bucks. Only problem is that it feels like a kid's watch. The face is a little small for my tastes, but it's a really nice watch for the money.
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Oh man, I can't wait for this knife! I fear I'm going to have to buy two.
Side note -- can we start a separate thread for Casio watch chat? :cheers:
Myron
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I got instagrammed a cut pic from Victorinox,
JR
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:drool: :drool: :drool:
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You guys probably worked this out - :tu: - But if you watch the videos natively in youtube you get the translation
Also just noticed the corscrew has 6 turns - Curent ones have four - older ones five - never knew there was a siz trun cs
Thanks for the pic MP - Can make out the engraving on the blade - Any ideas folks
I hate it - But I am really starting to want one of these - And I can't afford it :cry: :o :D
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Here's a video on it from Vic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAG3PVditwQ
and another one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPtdKzWDTCk
So that how those crazy can openers work!! :twak: :rofl:
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Oh man, I can't wait for this knife! I fear I'm going to have to buy two.
Side note -- can we start a separate thread for Casio watch chat? :cheers:
Myron
We have a place for that:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/board,60.0.html
:cheers: :tu:
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You guys probably worked this out - :tu: - But if you watch the videos natively in youtube you get the translation
Also just noticed the corscrew has 6 turns - Curent ones have four - older ones five - never knew there was a siz trun cs
Thanks for the pic MP - Can make out the engraving on the blade - Any ideas folks
I hate it - But I am really starting to want one of these - And I can't afford it :cry: :o :D
In a couple of decades, the corkscrew will be know as "the other awl"...
:facepalm:
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So that how those crazy can openers work!! :twak: :rofl:
I know, right? I was trying those on top of the lid. No wonder they sucked...
:facepalm:
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Looks very nice indeed. I've heard that the UK allocation on this is only 500pcs which seems quite low. Just waiting on a confirmed UK retail price.
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I would not pay over $400 for one of those even though they are going to be about $800. A cash grab for Victorinox. I would rather see a replica of a 1961 Soldier model made to spec and less than $300 as a 60th anniversary piece.
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My worry is that I'm not going to see it in time to buy one. :ahhh
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Do we have any confirmation of pricing yet?
I'd like one, but it seems vanishingly unlikely if it's as expensive as people are saying. Maybe $100 at most for something like this for me :facepalm:
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I heard $799.99 will be the price a few weeks ago but we will see. I'm not excited for it. Again like I said ,I would have rather seen a 60th anniversary Soldier than this but I don't call the shots at Victorinox yet
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800 dollars its just crazy. Intelligent from a bussiness point of view.
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Thanks for sharing those, Huntsman - I did fear for her nails when she started opening the blades!!
My '42 M1908 destroyed my thumbnail the first time I opened it. They don't make them like that anymore!
Thankfully, they won't be making 'em like that, either... from the marketing website:
"Today’s model has the same number of functions and its tools work the same as the original—although we’ve improved the safety of the springs for opening and closing."
Still priced way out of my reach too, though.
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I like the pics and would buy one if priced - I dunno, maybe double or triple what any other two layer SAK would cost?
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Yeah - So maybe about $150 :tu:
That would be more like it!! :dunno:
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OMG! I just had an epiphany!
:o :o
Victorinox is turning into Apple!
:ahhh :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh
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If it really is 800 bucks, I might sit this one out as well. That would be a shame.
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I've written to Victorinox requesting an 1897 Officer's and Sports Knife X :P
I've always loved the early scales with more rounded edges than the current wooden ones, together with the exposed rivets. I'd like to see a modern Spartan in this style. Perhaps a modder's done it already?
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Unboxing video. Looks great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbdZAzhtuIQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbdZAzhtuIQ)
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I really don't have much to offer other than this is a really neat SAK celebrating their 125th anniversary.
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Received this today from a local retailer. Price will be € 429, world wide release date June tenth.
(https://i.postimg.cc/J0qzyyhf/5-C3827-F9-16-F6-4-AF4-AFC9-A5550-D53283-C.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Hxbxgv1s/7-FFFD033-66-FD-478-D-B593-470-DC4115-F91.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qq07Mcpc/D0-EA661-A-8048-41-CE-8-E13-535-D83-C8-F94-E.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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So probably £400, not as bad as earlier rumoured, but damn I do not have that kind of SAK money. :facepalm:
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So probably £400, not as bad as earlier rumoured, but damn I do not have that kind of SAK money. :facepalm:
You and me both mate, you and me both ::) :ahhh
Maybe I can get a replica, replica :rofl:
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Aha - Finally get to see what is printed on the SD: Thanks nitram
gesetzlich geschutz - which my translator says means protected by law ..... ie - I guess - patented!
Maybe you won't get your replica replica Surgey :(
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I like the knife itself but not as an expensive shelf trophy that I would never use...
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I like the knife itself but not as an expensive shelf trophy that I would never use...
I'd use it, but I can't see spending that kinda money for one. :dunno:
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Real shame they're not making a non-numbered edition of these like someone suggested for a more reasonable price. Absolutely beautiful knife (big fan of wood handles and exposed rivets) but there's no way I can justify spending 20x what'd I'd spend on a Spartan for a prettier version with less functionality.
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TBH, I think they'd get more sales from offering cheaper non-limited replicas of all their iconic knives... the first Soldier and the first Offiziersmesser in particular.
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If you compare it to a Spartan it is expensive, however, if you compare it to many higher end knives regularly used by knife aficionados then it is not that bad.
Many of us use knives or multitools costing a few hundred Euros, regularly, and do not think too much about it.
Yes, if you keep it new it will probably go up in value, maybe double or triple in price in a few years, but it is not going to make you rich.
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€429 is too expensive for me sadly, especially as in the UK we’ll have to pay import duty and VAT so it’ll be more like £500….. I don’t see me getting one, but it is an interesting looking edition, and I’m sure that those who an afford it will enjoy it.
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€429 is too expensive for me sadly, especially as in the UK we’ll have to pay import duty and VAT so it’ll be more like £500….. I don’t see me getting one, but it is an interesting looking edition, and I’m sure that those who an afford it will enjoy it.
They have import duty/tax in the EU too, so the price should be similar.
If anything, the UK may even have lower import taxes these days.
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If you compare it to a Spartan it is expensive, however, if you compare it to many higher end knives regularly used by knife aficionados then it is not that bad.
Compared to anything overpriced, it's not that bad... but then I'd never pay £3,000 for a William Henry or a Rockstead knife, either.
Also, unlike many higher end knives, this is not hand-forged by God himself from folded Jupiter moon dust and quenched in Hobbit blood, with scales of unicorn ivory and polishing with fairy tears.
This is an Officer's knife and, like most SAKs, was intended to be used, abused and likely replaced without it costing an arm and a leg. More like a set of hiking boots than an Aston Martin.
The original sold for about 6 Swiss Francs back in 1903 which, apparently, is very roughly £25 in today's relative 'buying power' value. Obviously that's pretty cheap compared to modern models, so I'd guess somewhere around the £100 mark for a non-LE would be a better price point. That puts it around the Cybertool M sort of value.
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Ignore. Double post.... dammit.
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I was thinking more like Chris Reeves knives, "LE" spydercos etc, Benchmade Swisstools and LM at European prices and various other brands that are around 300-500 (insert currency :) ).
They are not cheap or especially collectable but people buy them and use them reasonably.
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So probably £400, not as bad as earlier rumoured, but damn I do not have that kind of SAK money. :facepalm:
I'd tend to agree.
The anniversary 1891 Soldier came out in 2009 and cost £299.00.
Let's assume the 1891 Soldier and 1897 Officer have comparable 'worth'.
£299.00 in 2009 is worth £427.35 today. Also, nearly bang on the € price albeit £ rather than € so we could be paying more than the general price in the EU.
On VAT, if bought from Victorinox's retail website:
"5. PRICES AND PAYMENTS
5.1 Price
The prices quoted at the time of the Order shall apply to orders in our Online Shop. The prices quoted are retail prices in Pounds Sterling (GBP) and include the applicable value-added tax."
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I was thinking more like Chris Reeves knives, "LE" spydercos etc, Benchmade Swisstools and LM at European prices and various other brands that are around 300-500 (insert currency :) ).
They are not cheap or especially collectable but people buy them and use them reasonably.
But they all use high end steels in this price range, not 440. I am not saying Vic steel is bad, but not on a SAK for 400 Euros. I wouldn't buy a Chris Reeve for 400, and certainly no SAK :dunno:
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We have been paying similar amounts for the Damascus blade ones for few years, as well as the heritage one, so I am sure they will sell. The steel in the Damascus model was better, adding some cost, but the heritage one had plain SS.
Are they more expensive than they could have been? Definitely, but there is no need to lower the price as they will sell them all very quickly. Most are already claimed anyway. Many of the interested people have already contacted the dealers and reserved them.
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We have been paying similar amounts for the Damascus blade ones for few years, as well as the heritage one, so I am sure they will sell.
In both cases those are limited edition 'special' versions, though, just like the Climber Lite Winter Magic or the Thunder Grey Pioneer...
We're more interested in having bog-standard versions that everyone can own.
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We're more interested in having bog-standard versions that everyone can own.
+1 on that.
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:iagree:
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Vic is really getting after the cash grab. This is not something in my price range so I'm out. For the collectors I'm sure its a must have. At 10,000 pieces its not terribly limited so price on secondary market may not be insane so buying with the hope of making a huge return doesn't seem like a great idea. Maybe down the road?
Neat but an everyman user would have been really cool.
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If they made it unlimited and a regular model then it would have been competing with other similar models from both of the main lines (Victorinox and, Wenger derivatives)
If they made it a bit more expensive then you would have still had people saying "I can get the xxxxxxxxx with better tools for half the price". :)
I do think they are expensive, for no real practical/engineering reason maybe, but I do not consider the cost so high that they would be impossible to buy one, if you really, really wanted it. Even the minor "collectors" amongst us can probably raise that amount selling a small part of our stash.
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I'm sure it will sell to collectors that make more, but I don't find the comparison to higher end knives valid. My knife collection includes Chris Reeve and knives well above that price point (currently topping out at $700, but greater than $1000 previously) with many at the price point this SAK will be asking.
The value isn't there.
Those knives use more premium materials in every regard, with greater consideration for tolerances and sometimes even better accessories than a flipping time capsule and little slip.
This is just Vic making a cash grab off the back of loyal collectors, and any claim that it was made to be used etc. is utter smurf at that price point and limited access.
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I'm sure it will sell to collectors that make more, but I don't find the comparison to higher end knives valid. My knife collection includes Chris Reeve and knives well above that price point (currently topping out at $700, but greater than $1000 previously) with many at the price point this SAK will be asking.
The value isn't there.
Those knives use more premium materials in every regard, with greater consideration for tolerances and sometimes even better accessories than a flipping time capsule and little slip.
This is just Vic making a cash grab off the back of loyal collectors, and any claim that it was made to be used etc. is utter smurf at that price point and limited access.
I wouldn't call it a lousy cash grab. Victorinox is a business. Among the products they produce are luxury goods. Conspicuous consumption type stuff, as somebody alluded to above. Everything is fine as long as I know who I am: not someone who can afford to buy a limited edition that costs 20 times the normal cost for such a thing. Everybody is happy: 1000 well to do customers can enjoy this luxury good and the rest of us can get a very nice knife with exactly the same functions for $21.99.
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I wouldn't call it a lousy cash grab. Victorinox is a business. Among the products they produce are luxury goods. Conspicuous consumption type stuff, as somebody alluded to above. Everything is fine as long as I know who I am: not someone who can afford to buy a limited edition that costs 20 times the normal cost for such a thing. Everybody is happy: 1000 well to do customers can enjoy this luxury good and the rest of us can get a very nice knife with exactly the same functions for $21.99.
You inserted the word lousy into what I said.
Yes they are a business, and their normal line generates decent-good value for what they are, that doesn't mean that one can't call out price gouging when they do it. At least the other ultra expensive versions have something about them that has a higher cost attributed to them (like the marbled CF/Damascus blade).
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You inserted the word lousy into what I said.
Yes they are a business, and their normal line generates decent-good value for what they are, that doesn't mean that one can't call out price gouging when they do it. At least the other ultra expensive versions have something about them that has a higher cost attributed to them (like the marbled CF/Damascus blade).
I understand and basically agree with you. Hmnnn... didn't you put "lousy" in there and edit it out? Or did I dream that?
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I have no problem with a cash grab. I also have no problem with Victorinox doing what other companies do however changing colors on Alox is :whistle:.
I applaud collectors. The video offered in this thread had the gentleman clearly say thank you to loyal customers and collectors. They know full well as any good business should who to target. This offering is laser focused at the collector. This is ok and good for them and the collectors who will get this. I applaud both sides.
Speaking to the price. My feeling is if you want this SAK, buy this SAK. We never have to justify why we buy the things we buy to anyone, well maybe the wifey or husband?
We never have to justify how we'll enjoy this item. Use of such an item is irrelevant unless thats how you personally enjoy such things. If you buy this SAK and put it in a curio for enjoyment yay you.
As to value? Too personal for me to get into. Do we talk materials? Function? Heritage? There is a lot wrapped up in this SAK for me to break down value.
I'll say this tho, its not for me even at 100US. I'm not their target anyways. Would I not accept one if you want to buy one? Offer me one and I'll let you know :popcorn: :D
Price. I do think its pricy. I can say that. I'm sure some smart Vic person determined what to price it at and as such it'll sell well. At 125 years and counting I'd say Vic has their smurf together.
To my comment of a cash grab, I stand by that. I hope I also made clear I am total good with that too. I will also reassert a everyman version would be neat.
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"Thank you
loyal customers collectors. Here is a remake of an old SAK for 400 bucks. You are welcome!" ::) :P
Well, if people want to spend that much money on something like this, go for it. I won't. But then don't be surprised to get more of the same.
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I guess I'm in the minority here. It is a collectible, designed to generate brand buzz, not endless revenue. This whole notion of calling it a "cash grab" seems petty and unseemly to me. Don't like it? Can't afford it? Don't buy one. But attaching some immoral, scheming, exploitative motivation to Victorinox for producing it is just silly.
My kid is dying for some fancy Chris Reeves super steel thingie. It's 400 bucks, and I look at it and don't see the value. He looks at the Böker sportmesser I carry every day and doesn't see the value at 300 bucks. But we both appreciate and support each others' tastes and collecting interests.
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I accept that "cash grab" is a poor choice I'm sorry I used it now that I reflect on your post. Thank you for you post.
I don't disagree with what you've posted for the most part. Victorinox is a business who is doing their job. They are darn good at it too. The know full well how to run their business and they do it quite well.
Value and price for me are too personal to quantify so I do my best not to comment on those.
As for Victorinox and this item, lets be clear that at 10,000 pcs this is a nice chunk of change if for what they are selling it at is what was stated in the thread. Its not done purely for the collectors benefit cause Victorinox loves us. They know the collectors will want this and its a neat item so why wouldn't they?
This was never meant to be endless cash stream nor are any of their limited releases. I think we all agree on this unless someone thinks otherwise? Its a nice bit of revenue and that is great for them. The collectors also get something they enjoy so no one is loosing.
I agree wholeheartedly that my personal choice to use cash grab was wrong and inaccurate so thank you for commenting.
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I don't understand the reaction to cash grab, that is literally the purpose of limited edition and limited-run products. They are a business and their purpose is to generate revenue, cash grabs are perfectly within their wheelhouse with multiple LEs every year.
That doesn't mean that people can't wish that it was not an arbitrarily limited and expensive item, nor that they can't comment on the relative value of that item compared to the actual cost of it.
For some people, it's 100% worth the expense, for some it's both worth it and they can afford it, great! But it shouldn't be portrayed as for 'loyal customers' when it's clearly aimed at the higher-end collector portion only, as reflected in SirVicalot's post.
These opinions doesn't isn't saying that no one should buy or enjoy it, nor is it saying that everyone involved in Victorinox are morally bankrupt. They're a business, we get it. That doesn't mean that the FOMO LE game doesn't leave a bad taste in many mouthes.
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I'll admit that I'm bummed out. I'd love to have one of these, and actually use it. But the high price precludes me from doing so.
Would love to see a less expensive version made, after the serial numbered version has gone to collectors. They already made the tooling for this run, so I don't see the harm in making an everyday version at say....... $150.00? They'd make plenty of extra cash, and be able to afford spare parts for warranty purposes.
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1891 Soldier or 1897 Officer? If you could only justify owning one. Tricky choice.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Hmmm - Interesting thoughts folks
I have a reasonable job and salary - I would really like one of these ..... As I mentioned above - To me this version is so much more desireable than the Heritage Soldier ..... Maybe it's because I have been a 91mm guy alll my life ? ??? .... And/or certainly since I got interested in SAKs, more than just as users - It has always been the evolution and history that has interested me .... Hmm - That is probably why :think: - I guess I could make it happen, as discussed above - However I cannot justify that $$$ with all the other fincncial commitments that I have - I'd feel like I was cheating my wife and son :( and/or not making best use of my $$$.
Anyway it's in the Wiki now - Any comments suggestions let me know -
I was tempted to putr some comment in there about the $$$ - But decided that would not be wise ;) :tu:
https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Officers+Knife
PS And I have never understood the price of all those top end knives - To me crazy prices compared to how well priced and completely capable my little SAK is ....... But that is parobably because I don't ...... errrrm .... understand them ;) :o
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An unusual choice for an unboxing video ..... but fine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbdZAzhtuIQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbdZAzhtuIQ)
As for price I think it is as low we could have expected ... the amount of time each knife takes to put together is going to be at least 10x a standard spartan if not a hell of a lot more.
Peening and shaping the scales is not the same job as clipping a spartan together some skill will be involved and we are dealing in Swiss Labour costs.
Most of the changes made to the Swiss army knife in the last 125 years were not to improve the knife but to make production cheaper and easier
I am glad its a 10K run as that means it won't be sold out in the first 10 mins
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These opinions doesn't isn't saying that no one should buy or enjoy it, nor is it saying that everyone involved in Victorinox are morally bankrupt. They're a business, we get it. That doesn't mean that the FOMO LE game doesn't leave a bad taste in many mouthes.
Agreed, they can sell it for whatever they want to ask, however they choose to sell them. Even for things I want badly, I won't play the lottery game where you have to be waiting to order at a certain moment and maybe you get it, maybe you don't. Which is good news for everyone who does, because it's one less guy competing for the item.
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I accept that "cash grab" is a poor choice I'm sorry I used it now that I reflect on your post. Thank you for you post.
I don't disagree with what you've posted for the most part. Victorinox is a business who is doing their job. They are darn good at it too. The know full well how to run their business and they do it quite well.
Value and price for me are too personal to quantify so I do my best not to comment on those.
As for Victorinox and this item, lets be clear that at 10,000 pcs this is a nice chunk of change if for what they are selling it at is what was stated in the thread. Its not done purely for the collectors benefit cause Victorinox loves us. They know the collectors will want this and its a neat item so why wouldn't they?
This was never meant to be endless cash stream nor are any of their limited releases. I think we all agree on this unless someone thinks otherwise? Its a nice bit of revenue and that is great for them. The collectors also get something they enjoy so no one is loosing.
I agree wholeheartedly that my personal choice to use cash grab was wrong and inaccurate so thank you for commenting.
No worries, Aloha! We're here to learn from each other, and I appreciate your thoughts on the matter. :)
An unusual choice for an unboxing video ..... but fine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbdZAzhtuIQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbdZAzhtuIQ)
As for price I think it is as low we could have expected ... the amount of time each knife takes to put together is going to be at least 10x a standard spartan if not a hell of a lot more.
Peening and shaping the scales is not the same job as clipping a spartan together some skill will be involved and we are dealing in Swiss Labour costs.
Most of the changes made to the Swiss army knife in the last 125 years were not to improve the knife but to make production cheaper and easier
I am glad its a 10K run as that means it won't be sold out in the first 10 mins
Thanks for this perspective, Jaydar. It makes sense, and does help to explain the price.
The "unboxing" video is a bit nutty, and I enjoyed it. I am really looking forward to this knife, and hope I am able to get one.
Myron
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I don't understand the reaction to cash grab, that is literally the purpose of limited edition and limited-run products. They are a business and their purpose is to generate revenue, cash grabs are perfectly within their wheelhouse with multiple LEs every year.
That doesn't mean that people can't wish that it was not an arbitrarily limited and expensive item, nor that they can't comment on the relative value of that item compared to the actual cost of it.
For some people, it's 100% worth the expense, for some it's both worth it and they can afford it, great! But it shouldn't be portrayed as for 'loyal customers' when it's clearly aimed at the higher-end collector portion only, as reflected in SirVicalot's post.
These opinions doesn't isn't saying that no one should buy or enjoy it, nor is it saying that everyone involved in Victorinox are morally bankrupt. They're a business, we get it. That doesn't mean that the FOMO LE game doesn't leave a bad taste in many mouthes.
You are correct.
Why I changed my feelings on "cash grab" is simply due to a further looking into this meaning,
Cash Grab, (derogatory) A product designed primarily or solely with the intent of generating profits or money. So yes its fits the description. I cannot express myself more than I have already, any business making money is awesome. I'm not happy with the derogatory connotation tho. For that I understand an opposing view. Any new product by definition is a cash grab, derogatory or not.
To suggest this is anything but a money maker and a clever one at that, targeted at collectors is silly to me. Yes some will use their limited editions but those folks are not among the masses.
My question is this, why do folks get wrinkled ( I cannot find the right word sorry ) then at those who choose to say as much ( in this case that Vic is out for profits pure and simple )? This goes for anyone who gets wrinkled when a product comes out and this is said about it and the company. I see it all the time. A company makes an item and those on that side say cash grab and the other side is not happy and comments. Back and forth and forth and back. We don't have to agree. What I was not keen on was ( regardless of it being directed at me personally ) was "petty and seemly". This is ok because I try not to get wrinkled tho my rebuttal was needed to better express myself.
"My kid is dying for some fancy Chris Reeves super steel thingie. It's 400 bucks, and I look at it and don't see the value. He looks at the Böker sportmesser I carry every day and doesn't see the value at 300 bucks. But we both appreciate and support each others' tastes and collecting interests."
I believe this discussion is exactly as you describe between your son and you, is it not? Some don't see the value and are expressing this. They are not saying don't go buy. We are having a discussion and its ok not to agree so long as we support and appreciate each others interests. I know I do.
I do recognize the words "cash grab" could have been better delivered and received. The full context of what I wrote was applauding both sides however. It's about "petty and seemly" to which I am neither nor did I express as much nor does it upset me it was used. I just want to clarify myself and feel it did.
Its always my goal to understand even if I don't agree and to be understood even if the other side doesn't agree. Again, I am not taking "petty or seemly" to heart I'm having conversations.
By the way, aren't we doing exactly what Victorinox as you believe intended, "Designed to generate brand buz". We're talking about the product. Heck I'm taking about this product. I am in no way as said before their target. Good job Victorinox and MTO.
Job well done on both sides.
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You are correct.
Why I changed my feelings on "cash grab" is simply due to a further looking into this meaning,
Cash Grab, (derogatory) A product designed primarily or solely with the intent of generating profits or money. So yes its fits the description. I cannot express myself more than I have already, any business making money is awesome. I'm not happy with the derogatory connotation tho. For that I understand an opposing view. Any new product by definition is a cash grab, derogatory or not.
To suggest this is anything but a money maker and a clever one at that, targeted at collectors is silly to me. Yes some will use their limited editions but those folks are not among the masses.
My question is this, why do folks get wrinkled ( I cannot find the right word sorry ) then at those who choose to say as much ( in this case that Vic is out for profits pure and simple )? This goes for anyone who gets wrinkled when a product comes out and this is said about it and the company. I see it all the time. A company makes an item and those on that side say cash grab and the other side is not happy and comments. Back and forth and forth and back. We don't have to agree. What I was not keen on was ( regardless of it being directed at me personally ) was "petty and seemly". This is ok because I try not to get wrinkled tho my rebuttal was needed to better express myself.
"My kid is dying for some fancy Chris Reeves super steel thingie. It's 400 bucks, and I look at it and don't see the value. He looks at the Böker sportmesser I carry every day and doesn't see the value at 300 bucks. But we both appreciate and support each others' tastes and collecting interests."
I believe this discussion is exactly as you describe between your son and you, is it not? Some don't see the value and are expressing this. They are not saying don't go buy. We are having a discussion and its ok not to agree so long as we support and appreciate each others interests. I know I do.
I do recognize the words "cash grab" could have been better delivered and received. The full context of what I wrote was applauding both sides however. It's about "petty and seemly" to which I am neither nor did I express as much nor does it upset me it was used. I just want to clarify myself and feel it did.
Its always my goal to understand even if I don't agree and to be understood even if the other side doesn't agree. Again, I am not taking "petty or seemly" to heart I'm having conversations.
By the way, aren't we doing exactly what Victorinox as you believe intended, "Designed to generate brand buz". We're talking about the product. Heck I'm taking about this product. I am in no way as said before their target. Good job Victorinox and MTO.
Job well done on both sides.
Just to be clear I'm not the one that made the quote you react to later in the post, I don't really think this is aimed at me, just to be 100% clear.
My take on cash grab is this: Something that is done purely for a surge of cash and is usually easily to do, and usually panders to/targets a certain subdemographic of the company's audience. Alox LEs are a cash grab because it's literally just different coloured scales, this used to be the standard, or at least more standard, before Vic started to reign in natural colour variety to the push LEs. That is 100% a cash grab, with the added creation of the circumstances of the cash grab.
The replica is a cash grab because it's way over priced compared to it's cost, including R&D, and 'Swiss labour' doesn't change jack squat. If labour time is a meaningful factor for the cost of that knife then that is a manufacturing failure from a company that prides itself on it's output, and by extension, it's efficiency of manufacture. The skill argument is also weak, peening wood handled knives is centuries old, it isn't cutting edge, and it isn't particularly skilled work.They already spent the R&D to create the plans, they already invested the money in tooling and training. All they're deciding to do is artificially limit the run and upping the price to get the investment back and generate a profit in a tighter time frame.
And the kicker is, they'll likely release the same thing again in the future, with the tooling and R&D already more than paid for with this run.
LEs are usually just capitalising on FOMO, that's why they work so reliably and demand higher prices. Taking a stance that that is moral is... odd. They can make money anyway they want, that doesn't make them saints or devils, but they are very clearly using less than admirable sales practices with LE. Whether that bothers any given collector is personal preference, but to argue they aren't doesn't it is bonkers.
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Sorry if I offended anyone, especially you, @Aloha. It was not my intent. I think the word "cash grab" is grossly misapplied in this instance, but don't have any more words to say about it.
I feel I have a full understanding of the various opinions on all sides of the issue, and it's always good to listen. I wish all MTO members nothing but happiness and peace.
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:salute:
"Just to be clear I'm not the one that made the quote you react to later in the post, I don't really think this is aimed at me, just to be 100% clear."
Not at all. Not actually aimed at anyone just hoping to show we don't have to agree on what we see as value. We, you and I seem to be saying what both Myron and his son expressed to each other regarding their differences of perceived value in their respective tool choices.
Why it cannot be said about this particular SAK is confusing. If not about afford. Its not about quality. It could be about both or one or the other. If someone shares their thoughts about value its ok to disagree. My quote was hopefully showing it does occur even among friends and in that instance family. Again its ok. We don't have to agree with what others feel is a good value.
I am also ok that cash grab is perceived negatively so I will personally find a better way to express this. I said as much earlier. I understand conversations end when focus is diverted to what one feels is negative. I am always trying to better find ways to communicate so as not to have the conversation diverted.
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Sorry if I offended anyone, especially you, @Aloha. It was not my intent. I think the word "cash grab" is grossly misapplied in this instance, but don't have any more words to say about it.
I feel I have a full understanding of the various opinions on all sides of the issue, and it's always good to listen. I wish all MTO members nothing but happiness and peace.
All good. I never feel offended when the flow of conversation continue. No attacks were made nor ill words used. I was hoping to be better understood. I want to be better and I agree as I said that cash grab while accurate has negative connotations. I don't like that. I'm ok personally with not using it to describe something. I would not want my products described as such. I'm glad this came up anyways. Always learning enjoying the process.
We're totally good. :hatsoff:
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I doubt they will make it again, or make a non serialised version of it for a much lower price.
They did not do it for the Heritage model, and, it will alienate the people that bought the original more expensive LE model if it becomes a regular item.
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The replica is a cash grab because it's way over priced compared to it's cost, including R&D, and 'Swiss labour' doesn't change jack squat. If labour time is a meaningful factor for the cost of that knife then that is a manufacturing failure from a company that prides itself on it's output, and by extension, it's efficiency of manufacture. The skill argument is also weak, peening wood handled knives is centuries old, it isn't cutting edge, and it isn't particularly skilled work.They already spent the R&D to create the plans, they already invested the money in tooling and training. All they're deciding to do is artificially limit the run and upping the price to get the investment back and generate a profit in a tighter time frame.
I think suggesting that the company has failed because the production of this knife needs a massive increase in labor is a little harsh , they have, over the last 100 years or so improved the manufacturing process so it is efficient, by design this knife has few of those efficiencies.
This knife has all the problems of assembly of the the original , you are right peening pins is not highly skilled job but its not something that has been done on their production line for over 50 years which is why each knife is being peened in the repair department.
Yes they could retool more and maybe automate some of the production such as machine peening the same as the pioneers but why would they its a run of 10k.
They are never going to produce this knife in vast quantities as it has a big issue, fibre scaled knives are nice very hard wearing but they do not handle water well they will swell up they shrink they crack round the pins they would cost Victorinox a fortune in repairs and replacements going forward.
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Like the video. It shows the amount of thought and work they put into it. It makes the price less outrageous.
:cheers: :salute:
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Did anyone go and look at the Wiki? ???
https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Officers+Knife
Notice any similarities between the two pictures? ???
I mean like, real similarities, between a photo that is a few weeks old and one that was put into the Wiki 13 years ago? :think:
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Pretty similar. Too bad they left off the bail.
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Small blade. Bail as smiller mentions. The corkscrew.
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If they made it unlimited and a regular model then it would have been competing with other similar models from both of the main lines (Victorinox and, Wenger derivatives)
Why would it be competing?
There are quite a few companies that have released replicas of their more iconic historic products, none of which were really in competition with their other stuff, and most of which were quite sensibly priced.
The best example I can think of is probably Zippo because, like Swiss Army Knives, Zippo lighters are a fairly low-cost item intended as everyman products. Their '35 and '41 historic replicas have all the signature features of the originals, but are priced very similarly to their regular models, so that the everyman is not excluded.
I get the special edition models with fancy scales and exceptional tools being more expensive. Zippo do that kind of thing too... but this just seems to go against the grain of what the original 1890s models were.
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To call this knife a cash grab is not thoughtful in my opinion. I'm pretty sure that Victorinox has less profit margin on this replica than, for example, on the Alox Limited Editions.
For each tool, and the fiberscales, machines had to be built to produce it. Some engineers are busy for a while and that costs a lot of money in expensive Switzerland! Even divided by 10000, that's still a high cost per knife. Jaydar has described well why the edition will remain small.
Of course the price is very high when compared to a Spartan, but the effort behind this replica is underestimated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qQ_bhzj48k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qQ_bhzj48k)
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Thankfully, the good Lord has seen fit to remove this burden from me ('ow much :ahhh :surrender:) :rofl:
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OK I am so over this. I would enjoy handling one but I realize that what I want and need is regular SAKs, like a Spartan. Even if one of these were to fall into my lap, what would I do with it? For someone of modest means like myself it would inevitably feel too expensive to carry around and use. So even if I got a freebie it would just end up being a cupboard trophy. Meanwhile I have a few Spartans already which I can actually use. I realize that I am not the target market for this. I'm not so much a collector as somebody who likes using SAKs. Collecting is great, too. Obviously it's not where I'm at.
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The argument that they spent so much money to make this happen directly clashes with the idea that they would never use that investment again. Even the argument that the repair team has to rivet them is notched down by that video which shows a simple machine step. They even have a handle/jig for the grinding. The skill level for this won't be substantially greater, if greater at all, than standard SAK production, because that's part of why you pay an engineer in the first place.
This is a run of 10,000. Assuming that means actually 10,000 for sale then that's 4.29 million euro.
Does anyone here honestly think the entire project (R&D, production, logistics, advertising) is eating up that revenue? Even at 75% costs, which is a really, really big stretch, that's well over a million Euro return.
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The argument that they spent so much money to make this happen directly clashes with the idea that they would never use that investment again. Even the argument that the repair team has to rivet them is notched down by that video which shows a simple machine step. They even have a handle/jig for the grinding. The skill level for this won't be substantially greater, if greater at all, than standard SAK production, because that's part of why you pay an engineer in the first place.
This is a run of 10,000. Assuming that means actually 10,000 for sale then that's 4.29 million euro.
Does anyone here honestly think the entire project (R&D, production, logistics, advertising) is eating up that revenue? Even at 75% costs, which is a really, really big stretch, that's well over a million Euro return.
So what, you are shocked that 25% of the cost of an item could be profit? Or even 50%? Businesses like this - especially conservative, old, well-established Swiss businesses, are very good at bean-counting. They have a pretty good idea what they might make from a project like this. I think it's important to not get all moralistic about business profit. They all charge as much as the traffic will bear. If you think an item is overpriced, you don't have to buy it! Especially not when it is clearly marketed as a limited edition, collectable, luxury item. And particularly when the company supplies a sleek, modern version which is actually more durable for 5% of the price of this commemorative reissue.
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So what, you are shocked that 25% of the cost of an item could be profit? Or even 50%? Businesses like this - especially conservative, old, well-established Swiss businesses, are very good at bean-counting. They have a pretty good idea what they might make from a project like this. I think it's important to not get all moralistic about business profit. They all charge as much as the traffic will bear. If you think an item is overpriced, you don't have to buy it! Especially not when it is clearly marketed as a limited edition, collectable, luxury item. And particularly when the company supplies a sleek, modern version which is actually more durable for 5% of the price of this commemorative reissue.
You completely misread my post.
I was arguing against the notion that it's so expensive to produce (Swiss labour, repair shop peening etc.) that they won't make that much money on it was very unrealistic.
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You completely misread my post.
I was arguing against the notion that it's so expensive to produce (Swiss labour, repair shop peening etc.) that they won't make that much money on it was very unrealistic.
OK, understood. But I think deep down you are probably experiencing a bit of the same chagrin I felt when I heard about this and saw the pictures. As I say I am over it because I have grokked what sort of thing this is and recognize this is for serious collectors - serious collectors not just folks who have a few SAKs to use as tools.
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OK, understood. But I think deep down you are probably experiencing a bit of the same chagrin I felt when I heard about this and saw the pictures. As I say I am over it because I have grokked what sort of thing this is and recognize this is for serious collectors - serious collectors not just folks who have a few SAKs to use as tools.
I understand what it's for, and no I don't like that, I'm also not new to this kind of thing as I'm primarily a knife collector.
I completely understand charging more for LEs, I just wish Vic wasn't going that route for this, and not doing so at such an extreme price tag.
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From a business perspective I totally understand this decision. It is guaranteed, easy money. So of course they do it. But I am not part of that business, I am just a customer, so I don't care about their reasoning for doing it. I just don't like that approach.
I don't understand why they cannot do an economy variant of that SAK for their regular customers, and a variant with better materials for collectors. Considering that they made new tools just for this SAK. Doesn't make much sense to me, but I also don't have the background information they have.
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From a business perspective I totally understand this decision. It is guaranteed, easy money. So of course they do it. But I am not part of that business, I am just a customer, so I don't care about their reasoning for doing it. I just don't like that approach.
I don't understand why they cannot do an economy variant of that SAK for their regular customers, and a variant with better materials for collectors. Considering that they made new tools just for this SAK. Doesn't make much sense to me, but I also don't have the background information they have.
I had some similar thoughts like what if they made something really close but out of regular celidor, made some compromises to keep the price down and so on. I did notice that though they replicated the external look of the 1897 model, under the hood it's a modern pocket knife with all the engineering improvements they have learned in the last 125 years. It occurred to me that maybe the Spartan is just a better knife and the original a curiosity...
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I have recently talked to local regional distributor, and as much as many fans want to make the deposit to secure a copy, they had no info other than it would be launched in June.
I am glad its a 10K run as that means it won't be sold out in the first 10 mins
Keeping my fingers crossed here, it is expensive but at least it is still obtainable.
Regarding the pricing and value, I recently just learned that Gucci do make $1300 usd umbrella that is not even rain proof, and you cannot buy a 10k usd(highest is 200k in auction) Hermes Birkin without first buying probably the same amount of accessories, before being offered a 'chance' to get one. Now that's consumerism and brand worshipping at the highest level. It's almost sci-fi unreal to me, that leads me to believe Nike has been right all along--nothing is impossible... :facepalm: :D
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I have recently talked to local regional distributor, and as much as many fans want to make the deposit to secure a copy, they had no info other than it would be launched in June.
I was told late June by the dealer yesterday.
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I was told late June by the dealer yesterday.
:cheers:
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My thinking on this one is... It’s probably a safer investment than Bitcoin right now :dunno:
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The release date is not a secret - it’s Friday 10 June - the emails and website have been clear about that…. Just too much for me, but I’m happy for those who can afford it - I’m sure it’ll be a great addition to a collection! :cheers:
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A poster above mentioned that the replica has fibre scales. But from watching Vic’s videos they actually appear to be wood.
I had some similar thoughts like what if they made something really close but out of regular celidor, made some compromises to keep the price down and so on. I did notice that though they replicated the external look of the 1897 model, under the hood it's a modern pocket knife with all the engineering improvements they have learned in the last 125 years. It occurred to me that maybe the Spartan is just a better knife and the original a curiosity...
We’re departing from the spirit of the thread but I see your point & am inclined to agree. The hugely more affordable Spartan Wood — or a Spartan with replacement custom wooden scales — looks great & feels much nicer in the hand than with one with plastic scales; & has modern functionality.
I’m not a really a limited edition collector & have no interest in this release. It isn’t faithful to the original anyway. I’d love to hold one, though.
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I didnt know it was possible to buy a original one under 150 in good conditions
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I didnt know it was possible to buy a original one under 150 in good conditions
USD/EUR
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Seeing the video, I think I might one. If I have the moeny...
As we say over here: "Better expensive, than not for sale."
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The release date is not a secret - it’s Friday 10 June - the emails and website have been clear about that…. Just too much for me, but I’m happy for those who can afford it - I’m sure it’ll be a great addition to a collection! :cheers:
The actual release day does not seem to be the same everywhere
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UK: Launch date: 10 June 2022
Germany: Einführungsdatum: 10. Juni 2022
France: Date de lancement : 10 juin 2022
USA: Launch date: June 10th, 2022
Brazil: Data de lançamento: 10 de junho de 2022
Peru: Fecha de lanzamiento: 10 de junio de 2022
China: 上市日期：2022 年 6 月 24 日
Japan: 発売日：2022年6月10日
Korea: 출시일: 2022년 6월 10일
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Here, end of June, according to the dealer.
I am talking about when they would actually be available to buy.
In this thread I think some have already gotten one in some countries.
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UK retail price confirmed at £360.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220610/f24fd16646e916c74d9ba101a6d34cb4.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Indeed - but with import extras it’ll be more direct from Victorinox. It does look interesting, but a bit too much for me at the moment. I’m sure that those who get it will be happy! :cheers:
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Now sold out in the UK. Went live at 8:00am and sold out by 9:05am.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Indeed - but with import extras it’ll be more direct from Victorinox. It does look interesting, but a bit too much for me at the moment. I’m sure that those who get it will be happy! :cheers:
I’ve never had any import fees with any orders from Victorinox to the UK.
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I’ve never had any import fees with any orders from Victorinox to the UK.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think they're included in the price.
There are a couple of SAKs that I was interested in, for example - Vic UK wanted £100 for them, yet on their Euro sites they're only asking €50-odd.... I can only assume this is because of tax and import fees.
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Just got mine today, and did a quick initial impression in another thread:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,89400.0.html
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the master blade is different than originals and so is the small clip point blade and the nail kicks are different also and few other things on the knife. I only desire period pieces and not over priced inaccurate replicas. I would not buy replicas of anything and that includes knives. that is why I don't buy GEC knives. They are nice but I can get true period knives for around the same price. I just got a 1908 soldier from 1932 for less than a $100 that is in great shape and I don't get the attraction to replicas. It is kind of an imposter and they are never the same
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Maybe Victorinox should have called it a nostalgic piece. Either way I wanted one because I have been looking to find a 4 exposed rivets Victorinox for quite a while and never have run across a true period piece for sale.
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the master blade is different than originals and so is the small clip point blade and the nail kicks are different also and few other things on the knife. I only desire period pieces and not over priced inaccurate replicas. I would not buy replicas of anything and that includes knives. that is why I don't buy GEC knives. They are nice but I can get true period knives for around the same price. I just got a 1908 soldier from 1932 for less than a $100 that is in great shape and I don't get the attraction to replicas. It is kind of an imposter and they are never the same
Reading between the lines on those youtube clips from Victorinox I got the impression that their engineering staff had trouble with a strict recreation of the original and the prototypes did not conform to what they now consider a quality pocket knife; in other words it didn't have the same sort of snap. She mentioned something about optimizing the opening and closing forces. So here's my question: on the period pieces you have handled, how well did they work? In particular did the tools close up tightly? Etc.
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oops duplicate sorry
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Maybe Victorinox should have called it a nostalgic piece. Either way I wanted one because I have been looking to find a 4 exposed rivets Victorinox for quite a while and never have run across a true period piece for sale.
:iagree:
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The videos earlier in the thread do explain a lot as to why they are not exact. For the fuss I made on price I think it looks wonderful. I don't suspect anyone will use it? I know I wouldn't ;). Not even sure if I'd handle it :D.
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Reading between the lines on those youtube clips from Victorinox I got the impression that their engineering staff had trouble with a strict recreation of the original and the prototypes did not conform to what they now consider a quality pocket knife; in other words it didn't have the same sort of snap. She mentioned something about optimizing the opening and closing forces. So here's my question: on the period pieces you have handled, how well did they work? In particular did the tools close up tightly? Etc.
I have the older Soldier with the main parts of the design from around the same time (my best bet is that the actual knife is from around 1950) and it is a pain on the nails for one. If you keep them too short you might not get enough grip but if they get too long the start bending before the knife opens. I'm a bit peeved that it doesn't come in carbon steel to keep it period appropriate. But the company is named for the stainless steel so I guess it checks out.
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Sometimes I think I've gotten a 40-year head start on being one of those grouchy old smurfs who seethes with contempt at the debased times he's lived to see. That will likely be evident in this post. Y'awl have been warned. :rant:
I was recently excited to open up an e-mail from Knife Center so I could see the nee Victorinox product. That excitement evaporated almost instantly. My first thought was "it's cool, but not $500 cool."
I can't help but thinking that insane asking price was borne out of pure, unadulterated hubris. That's the only explanation I have for such an asking price when so many people (myself included) are struggling with the effects of hyperinflation.
This is just the latest in a litany of colossal blunders made by Victorinox. First, they come out with a line of sweet Alox colors...and restrict them to the Classic SD, a model I already have in large quantities. Then they've raised the prices on other models by considerable; for example, the price of a Deluxe Tinker has risen by $10 in less than a year. It took them seemingly forever to get blue Spartans back in stock, and when they did...they asked too high a premium (in my opinion) for them.
I guess the bottom line is that Victorinox by and large ain't giving me what I want, and attempting to gouge me for what I do. If this is the path they're going to tread, I'll be done with 'em in due time.
[/rant]
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You have complained before that the price of a deluxe tinker has gone up. If you consult camelcamelcamel.com you will find that the price of this item on Amazon averaged $47.52 in its last 50 price changes. A typical price over the past year has been about $42 to $48. The current price? $39.46. So I don't know where you are buying but if you buy online you are just wrong about that.
https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B000MLU8SQ
As to the other complaints - hmnnn... I don't see these
'issues' as colossal blunders. I am pretty sure they will turn a profit on this limited collectible. It's not really meant for casual users of pocket knives and most casual users will never hear of it. Their regular knife line is good and very cheap, IMO.
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If you consult camelcamelcamel.com you will find that the price of this item on Amazon averaged $47.52 in its last 50 price changes.
You obviously did not take into consideration that there are people (myself included) who refuse to give Amazon their money.
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OK Folks -
I think we have had enough talk and moaning about the price and pricing strategy of the 1897 Replica
Let's just home in on its features and functions - And maybe some nice pics from those of us lucky anough to have one (eg See Comis thread)
Also let's also not worry too much about how exact the replica is - The Vic video made it clear they had done some modernisations to the build
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Thank you, Huntsman. I was finding it increasingly difficult to resist suggesting we start a separate thread for all the haters.... I bought this knife, but frankly won't be posting any pictures or impressions. Hate this knife, think it's too expensive? Fine, don't buy one.
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I'm really surprised how much hate and rejection Victorinox and this replica get in this thread. This is not the same MTO that I discovered and came to appreciate a few years ago. There are many products in EDC and other areas that I suspect have a better profit margin than this anniversary knife.
:shrug:
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Oh go on Myron, your write ups are always good. I 'd like to see a picture of the 125th Soldier and Officer side by side. If not here, then the blog?
Maybe earlier in the thread but missed it, what's the scale material? Canevasite/Tufnol/phenolic/vulcanised cotton fibres?
Thank you, Huntsman. I was finding it increasingly difficult to resist suggesting we start a separate thread for all the haters.... I bought this knife, but frankly won't be posting any pictures or impressions. Hate this knife, think it's too expensive? Fine, don't buy one.
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Just watch that review
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Swx9fwCo2A&t=49s
Maybe that helps to make a decision about that knife and its value. For me its worth every penny :-)
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Agreed, they can sell it for whatever they want to ask, however they choose to sell them. Even for things I want badly, I won't play the lottery game where you have to be waiting to order at a certain moment and maybe you get it, maybe you don't. Which is good news for everyone who does, because it's one less guy competing for the item.
That didn't work out like I thought it would. Which leaves me hovering over "add to cart"...must...resist... :ahhh
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I've succumbed to the temptation.
When they were released in the UK, I was camping, desperate for the first cup of tea of the day, um’d and ah’d and then they sold out within the hour.
I’ve bought one in Italy. I’m not expecting the landed price to be inordinately greater than the British retail price of £360 including VAT.
For any Brits interested, I estimate:
£298.89 Italian retail price excluding Italian or British VAT
£19.55 FedEx/DHL
£63.69 British import VAT
£0 British excise duty
£12.00 Customs clearance fee.
£394.13 Total, so a premium of about £30 which I can live with.
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Congratulations, David! Great news, and the origins of yours add to its story. Well done!
Myron
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Mine arrives tomorrow, can't wait!
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I'm really surprised how much hate and rejection Victorinox and this replica get in this thread. This is not the same MTO that I discovered and came to appreciate a few years ago. There are many products in EDC and other areas that I suspect have a better profit margin than this anniversary knife.
:shrug:
I've been thinking about your remarks. This is the outcome. :salute:
This knife is indeed rather expensive. It's not really in the price range for the average collector with an average income. However, as I've wrote before, better expensive than not for sale.
Why is it so expensive? Think about the R&D costs! Looking for the right materials takes a lot of effort. If Victorinox want this knife to be passed on to the next generations, its materials must be of an excellent quality. The cardboard, paints, plastics, sheet material, handle material, metals and so on, must be suited for a very long life. Many month, maybe years, of research have been done by any people. Text and outlay etc. had to be designed by professionals. marketing and engineer meetings had to be arranged. All this is an expensive adventure! And the retailers also want their share of the profit.
I think, the price for this LE knife is not exhorbitant, it's not a scam or a rip off. It's just an expensive, exclusive pocket knife.
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You obviously did not take into consideration that there are people (myself included) who refuse to give Amazon their money.
OK understood and that's fine if you don't like a particular vendor. But aren't you missing the point here? Amazon itself and the third party vendors who sell through the Amazon site allow statistics to be compiled for the history of their price. That was the graph I linked. You don't have to buy from those vendors to use the information in the graph, which is telling you the market value of this item. Markets are responsive, so if you see quite a large number of vendors represented on Amazon showing a price structure, the rest of the market is strongly influenced. What do those stats show? They show that you are blaming Victorinox when you should be blaming your vendor for high prices.
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I've been thinking about your remarks. This is the outcome. :salute:
This knife is indeed rather expensive. It's not really in the price range for the average collector with an average income. However, as I've wrote before, better expensive than not for sale.
Why is it so expensive? Think about the R&D costs! Looking for the right materials takes a lot of effort. If Victorinox want this knife to be passed on to the next generations, its materials must be of an excellent quality. The cardboard, paints, plastics, sheet material, handle material, metals and so on, must be suited for a very long life. Many month, maybe years, of research have been done by any people. Text and outlay etc. had to be designed by professionals. marketing and engineer meetings had to be arranged. All this is an expensive adventure! And the retailers also want their share of the profit.
I think, the price for this LE knife is not exhorbitant, it's not a scam or a rip off. It's just an expensive, exclusive pocket knife.
Thanks for your thoughts, EMZ. :salute:
Of course the price is very high when compared to a Spartan. But I suspect some don't understand the concept behind this knife because it's uncommon in today's economy. Victorinox had nothing more of this knife. No plans, no manufacturing facilities, nothing. And as I understand it, there will be no other knife with these parts. Victorinox really put a lot of effort into a one-off series. There is more detailed information on this in the video by ulli. (Reply No. 152)
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Just watch that review
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7Swx9fwCo2A&t=49s
Maybe that helps to make a decision about that knife and its value. For me its worth every penny :-)
Excellent! Thanks for posting :)
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I'm really surprised how much hate and rejection Victorinox and this replica get in this thread. This is not the same MTO that I discovered and came to appreciate a few years ago. There are many products in EDC and other areas that I suspect have a better profit margin than this anniversary knife.
:shrug:
In general here is why I think this received this reception:
- Victorinox are not a luxury EDC good manufacturer in general. They make special editions with inflated prices to garner cash, but they bread and butter (and what they're known for/what made them a household name) is affordable yet high quality pieces. Pointing to more boutique brands that sell more expensive items isn't going to help, because Vic and those makers are inherently shooting for different marketshares of the EDC community (and the former is likely small batch made by one person a lot of the time). All the claims about high-priced Swiss labour is well and good, factories exist because it's cheaper manufacturing and the majority of the people employed are unskilled labour taught to do specific tasks in-house. Those items being compared to are also likely more premium materials than Vic steel, brass pins, and wood scales.
- They did all of this work to create this replica, which is what a lot of defenders are pointing to as justification of the cost, and then... just doing nothing else with it? They're either going to throw out all of that R&D or they're going to put out the same thing in 5-10 years and make more out of it. The former is an odd business decision, the latter just feels bad for everyone scrambling to get this version.
- People want this product, that is readily evident not only by the collector community, but by the number of people in this thread saying that they want it. They could have released it as they did now as 'The Collector's edition' with the limited numbering on the blade, memorial packaging, time capsule thing and the knife slip, and then a more economically priced version that ships in a standard box. This is already a mass produced product, I can't imagine they wouldn't just make more money turning it into a regular product unless they plan on cycling it in and out as a FOMO LE edition.
When you make a product people want, then restrict the number made and price it out of most of their budgets, people will be unhappy to some degree. I would wager that the defenders are not only people that are heavily into SAK collecting, but also have a high enough salary that this purchase makes sense to them. That's not a bad thing, that's not their fault, but it's a drastic shift in perspective that should be considered.
It looks nicely made, and I hope those that chose to get one enjoy it :tu:
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I don't understand the excitement about the price at all. It seems like there is a compulsion to buy this knife. It is up to you whether you want to do this or not. And none of us can really judge how much money went into the development of this knife and therefore nobody can judge whether the price is justified or not. And all those who complain - but then buy the knife after all. That's hypocritical. And an economy version for 450 instead of 500 dollars that would be the solution? Because that's probably what's left when you peel off the packaging. I think people want the knife but don't have the money. Then of course it is easier to "blame" the manufacturer for the lack of possibility of not being able to purchase the knife than to look at yourself. Ultimately, Victorinox managed to secure its existence over the long term, even through major economic crises, without having to lay off staff. Victorinox was recently named "Company of the Year" and has an excellent reputation among employees. Apparently Victorinox is doing a lot of things right. They can't do anything about the lack of money in your own wallets. But they offer enough cheaper alternatives, which according to my calculations they sometimes pay extra for, means they have a negative margin so that it is available to a large audience.
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[...]inflated prices to garner cash[...]
Honestly doubt that, between the costs of making it, it is financially probably barely worth. The bigger benefit is possibly advertisement. See below, but also add in planning (managment, they earn a bit more) & prototyping (by skilled laborers)
[...]high-priced Swiss labour is well and good, factories exist because it's cheaper manufacturing and the majority of the people employed are unskilled labour taught to do specific tasks in-house[...]
Hourly wage for production is $28 on average in Switzerland. Didn't find the numbers for factory workers, but for office worker they say roughly double the salary to estimate cost, so for factory workers it is almost certainly higher (more expensive infrastructure and more expensive insurance)
[...]but they bread and butter (and what they're known for/what made them a household name) is affordable yet high quality pieces. Pointing to more boutique brands that sell more expensive items isn't going to help, because Vic and those makers are inherently shooting for different marketshares of the EDC community[...]
You underestimate the publicity a piece like this generates. Very valuable for a company like Vic
[...]and then a more economically priced version that ships in a standard box[...]
No, while the box certainly adds a good junk of money, fact remains that they are made by hand and that is simply not economical in Switzerland.
Victorniox only works because they have automated their production. It would take a large investment, you really think they could sell millions of these, because that is what it would take?
What if they upscale, but kept it manual? They would need more work-space / machinery / employees, also a larger investment. And again, probably not viable as they would never be able to sell enough.
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I don't understand the excitement about the price at all. It seems like there is a compulsion to buy this knife. It is up to you whether you want to do this or not. And none of us can really judge how much money went into the development of this knife and therefore nobody can judge whether the price is justified or not. And all those who complain - but then buy the knife after all. That's hypocritical. And an economy version for 450 instead of 500 dollars that would be the solution? Because that's probably what's left when you peel off the packaging. I think people want the knife but don't have the money. Then of course it is easier to "blame" the manufacturer for the lack of possibility of not being able to purchase the knife than to look at yourself. Ultimately, Victorinox managed to secure its existence over the long term, even through major economic crises, without having to lay off staff. Victorinox was recently named "Company of the Year" and has an excellent reputation among employees. Apparently Victorinox is doing a lot of things right. They can't do anything about the lack of money in your own wallets. But they offer enough cheaper alternatives, which according to my calculations they sometimes pay extra for, means they have a negative margin so that it is available to a large audience.
This greatly peaked my curiosity, do you honestly think this knife takes 450 to produce?
And where do you get that Vic takes a loss on the things they sell the most of? If anything what would make more sense is small margins and making money through economy of scale.
This is also very defensive of Vic in general, I'm not sure it was needed given the narrow scope of criticism. No one said it was a bad place to work, or that they paid their employees poorly. In the interest of a balanced look at what you've brought to the thread, no they haven't laid off employees at times of hardship, but that doesn't mean that they just kept on chugging with employees unaffected. In the wake of 9/11 they stopped hiring, cut all overtime, reduced shift times by 15 minutes, encouraged employees to use their vacation time, and loaned employees to other companies in the Ibach region (Source: https://www.ft.com/content/9299de8e-0e17-11e0-86e9-00144feabdc0) . All of that is better than losing your job, as someone that was left unemployed by covid, believe me, I'd have loved this response, but your knee-jerk defense of them paints an incomplete and biased picture.
Again, I hope that those that purchased this homage enjoy the knife, and that includes anyone that decided not to initially, but then decided to change their mind, regardless of any criticism they may have levelled at Vic.
We're all SAK lovers here, even if we don't always agree with each other, or the big red mothership's decisions.
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Honestly doubt that, between the costs of making it, it is financially probably barely worth. The bigger benefit is possibly advertisement. See below, but also add in planning (managment, they earn a bit more) & prototyping (by skilled laborers)
Hourly wage for production is $28 on average in Switzerland. Didn't find the numbers for factory workers, but for office worker they say roughly double the salary to estimate cost, so for factory workers it is almost certainly higher (more expensive infrastructure and more expensive insurance)
You underestimate the publicity a piece like this generates. Very valuable for a company like Vic
No, while the box certainly adds a good junk of money, fact remains that they are made by hand and that is simply not economical in Switzerland.
Victorniox only works because they have automated their production. It would take a large investment, you really think they could sell millions of these, because that is what it would take?
What if they upscale, but kept it manual? They would need more work-space / machinery / employees, also a larger investment. And again, probably not viable as they would never be able to sell enough.
On inflated costs - Do you seriously think that the price of this knife is near break-even for them? Looking at the CHF price minus the 7.7% VAT, it's 368.28, rounding that down to 368, that would mean that this project took them in the region of 3.6million CHF to produce and advertise a limited run of 9,999.
The materials sure as heck aren't a meaningful cost here at all. It's all R&D, labour, and advertising. If swiss factory workers are paid enough for labour to be a realistic reason for that price, either the cost of living is insane, or they are extremely well paid and I should look at emigrating there instead.
There's absolutely zero reason to think that producing a modernised version of something they already made in the past would cost anywhere near that much, even with manufacturing inefficiencies.
Hourly wage reply - You... seem to be conflating the infrastructure of the company, which supports the rest of their product line, with the cost of labour? The only real take away from this part of the reply is: we don't know how much they're paid, just assume it's a lot because Switzerland.
Publicity: As someone who's livelihood depends on a game going through significant changes to capitalise on an upcoming anniversary, no, I really don't underestimate the publicity of stuff like this. Nor is what you said particularly relevant to what you quoted.
Economy version: I don't know why people keep thinking that the cheaper packaging is the only factor here. If the justification for a large portion of the price is R&D, that is a finite initial cost. They stumped that up before they made these and just have to recoup it. The anniversary run clearly recoups that R&D cost for them, again companies are not in the business of burning money and man hours like this.
Once you strip out the R&D recoup, the price should considerably come down. We're dealing with cheap, lower-end materials that they order in massive bulk anyway.
And let's be realistic here. 10,000 units is mass production. I wouldn't be surprised if some models of EDC knife only ever see that number overall. They haven't been toiling away with hand tools for 10,000 units. They made jigs, they streamlined the process as much as was reasonable. And for as much as 'hand made!' is being thrown around on here, we watched a good portion of the assembly process in a YT video posted upthread. A custom mechanical press was used to assemble, a jig and powered tool was used to rivet them (and judging from the video, both sides of a single knife likely takes significantly less than 60 seconds.)
Hand made here us just describing the kind of factory manufacturing process that is used around the world for anything that isn't entirely automated by robots. I used to work in a trailer manufacturer pre-covid, I wouldn't call those trailers 'hand made' even though it was basically just a collection of people doing individual steps like we saw in the video.
I'm not saying they could sell it a Spartan prices and on Spartan scale. By an annual run selling for something like 100ish would make sense and still be viable. The only reason that won't happen is because they don't want to, they want to keep it as a LE collector piece that garnishes FOMO marketing with Vic nostalgia.
It's a fine business strategy and I'm sure it's made them a lot of money.
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This greatly peaked my curiosity, do you honestly think this knife takes 450 to produce?
And where do you get that Vic takes a loss on the things they sell the most of? If anything what would make more sense is small margins and making money through economy of scale.
This is also very defensive of Vic in general, I'm not sure it was needed given the narrow scope of criticism. No one said it was a bad place to work, or that they paid their employees poorly. In the interest of a balanced look at what you've brought to the thread, no they haven't laid off employees at times of hardship, but that doesn't mean that they just kept on chugging with employees unaffected. In the wake of 9/11 they stopped hiring, cut all overtime, reduced shift times by 15 minutes, encouraged employees to use their vacation time, and loaned employees to other companies in the Ibach region (Source: https://www.ft.com/content/9299de8e-0e17-11e0-86e9-00144feabdc0) . All of that is better than losing your job, as someone that was left unemployed by covid, believe me, I'd have loved this response, but your knee-jerk defense of them paints an incomplete and biased picture.
Again, I hope that those that purchased this homage enjoy the knife, and that includes anyone that decided not to initially, but then decided to change their mind, regardless of any criticism they may have levelled at Vic.
We're all SAK lovers here, even if we don't always agree with each other, or the big red mothership's decisions.
I didn't mean that it costs 450 to make, but see that as a possible reduction in the final price by simplifying the packaging. Finally, I see absolutely no negative effect on how high the price is. Except maybe the point that it is not as attractive for speculators as with the Alox models, which they buy only to offer them again a short time later at inflated prices. nobody says: thats not correct. Why shouldn't victorinox take the margin itself, but leave it to "intermediaries"? Even if the margin for this knife - which I doubt - should be very high, this only means that other models - continue to - can be bought cheaply. So as long as the 9999 pieces can be sold - and it looks like that should be done easily - there is a market and everything is fine. Why is no one criticizing the damst kitchen knives, which cost the same, require far fewer parts to manufacture and are much simpler to assemble?
it is quite clear that the replica 1897 is a collector's model. a spartan today is cheaper, has a lot more features, better tools, etc. so this replica is unsuitable as an edc and i also hope it doesn't become a pure investment item. although I'm sure it won't fall in value. I can therefore only recommend the purchase and see nothing negative in it. whoever has the money should buy it. i wouldn't recommend using it, not because it wouldn't work, but because there are much cheaper and better models for it, and of course it makes resale more difficult.
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I'm really surprised how much hate and rejection Victorinox and this replica get in this thread.
I think it's more just disappointment.
Victorinox SAKs have long been marketed (and priced) as being for people from all walks of life, all social backgrounds, at all financial levels... even ones for children!
Of course, they make some fancy or special versions of some models, which are understandably more expensive, and people are fine with that... But the Soldier and the Offiziersmesser are the two models that basically made Victorinox and many people within the SAK culture have an interest in the history.
For a company to passionately foster a culture that includes so many, it is very disheartening that they would then do something that excludes so many. .
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For a company to passionately foster a culture that includes so many, it is very disheartening that they would then do something that excludes so many. .
+1. Even better, you articulated my thoughts without coming across as a grouchy old smurf.
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Mine arrives tomorrow, can't wait!
Cool! :like: :tu: :tu: :ahhh :mail: :cheers:
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$500 :o
Yeah, no.
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She arrived! #1597
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@GearedForwards: Wow you seem to know everything about Victorinox, their product development and manufacturing. I was allowed to take part in a few guided tours in production and assembly, but compared to you I know almost nothing. You are right about everything. OK?
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She arrived! #1597
Cool!
That is beautiful FB! :like: :tu: :tu: :woohoo:
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@GearedForwards: Wow you seem to know everything about Victorinox, their product development and manufacturing. I was allowed to take part in a few guided tours in production and assembly, but compared to you I know almost nothing. You are right about everything. OK?
What a thoroughly unhelpful reply, did those guided tours include breakdowns of their R&D and staffing costs (that you can't remember to reference?)? I didn't think they did, so please, tell me how getting a tour is relevant here?
I have provided nothing but speculation and attempted to show why people are unhappy with the release pricing, my mistake was clearly thinking that confusion about something naturally wanted to understand the why of that thing.
On the other hand, defenders shutting down complaints have zero proof of anything regarding what they think the cost, reasons, and profit margins are, but that's perfectly okay and warrants no patronising reply I assume?
@FB Looks great! How does the slip feel? Looks super soft
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Though I still think it carries a very hefty price tag, I must admit the presentation is world-class. And that slip! Making slips is something I intend to get going on sometime, and that fabric looks ideal. What, exactly, is it (if anyone can say for sure)?
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She arrived! #1597
Congratulations!
Though I still think it carries a very hefty price tag, I must admit the presentation is world-class. And that slip! Making slips is something I intend to get going on sometime, and that fabric looks ideal. What, exactly, is it (if anyone can say for sure)?
Can't say for sure but it seems like something like linnen canvas on some kind of backing for rigidity.
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We've hashed out the price beyond what we can and still have a productive conversation. I too expressed my thoughts but we really need to move on with it please.
At this juncture its doing more to divide than be any real conversation.
Its a gorgeous SAK thats for sure.
Congraats FB.
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@GearedForwards: Well, how were your comments helpful? If you spend a day with engineers, managers and workers, you can see how much effort is put into it. You demand evidence from the "defenders" so why do you as an "attacker" provide nothing but speculation?
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We've hashed out the price beyond what we can and still have a productive conversation. I too expressed my thoughts but we really need to move on with it please.
At this juncture its doing more to divide than be any real conversation.
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Hi Team,
Just echoing Aloha's comments and mine on the previous page - Please can we stop discussing the details of the price and maufacturing costs
I think we all agree that it is very expensive
I think we all know it's probably a one off and has had significant research and investment to produce
I think we all also know that we don't know the precise details of Victorinox's cost and recommended retail price calculations- Even Ulli, who was somewhat involved in the development of the replica, says he does not know this, although has provided some insight into the development process!! :tu:
And as someone did point out earlier - Don't forget the retail mark up - this is often in the region of 50%
And breaking my own rule! If this is the case why is the markup the same on expemsive and less costly items - when the on-costs to the retailer must be the same ie Same costs to store and ship a Spartan as an 1987 replica - But let's not go there either!! :) :think:
Also want to remind you of our unwritten rule at MTo - And that is to only focus on the tools, functions fetaures and maybe sometimes price of our multitools !! But never to get personal, or critical of any members, in our discussions. We all have some knowledge and opinions - Let's just share them openly, and if we disagree we can do that .... but objectively, and never personally.
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Personally, although it's not for me, I'm delighted that Vic has reproduced the original Offiziersmesser, & that people who really want it can enjoy it. It is a beautiful knife, beautifully presented, and I'm happy for those who have or will have one.
The price is fair IMO. Where else are you going to choose from nearly 10,000 perfect examples of an Offiziersmesser? If the cost is an impediment to purchase one can always find a way to buy it. Increase working hours, overdraft, personal loan, add it to the mortgage, whatever. :)
PS: I wondered if Ulli had made the excellent video in #152!
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She arrived! #1597
FB, that's awesome! I did not know how much thought process was involved with this piece, until I saw Ulli's video, and hope you will like yours too!
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IMHO there was a very important, plain reason Why Vic made this knife: Because they love making knives! :climber:
Plus wanted to celebrate this 125th anniversary with something special. I guess they just had big pleasure in developing and producing it. And yes, they want to earn some money also.
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An update. It has cleared British customs today and I will hopefully receive it in the next couple of days.
The premium over British retail will be about £65. £20 down to me, the extra cost of shipping from Italy rather than domestic. £45 plus say 1 week delay, the Brexit premium. There is in fact duty now 9%. So, £30 duty plus £13 customs clearance costs or thereabouts.
I've succumbed to the temptation.
When they were released in the UK, I was camping, desperate for the first cup of tea of the day, um’d and ah’d and then they sold out within the hour.
I’ve bought one in Italy. I’m not expecting the landed price to be inordinately greater than the British retail price of £360 including VAT.
For any Brits interested, I estimate:
£298.89 Italian retail price excluding Italian or British VAT
£19.55 FedEx/DHL
£63.69 British import VAT
£0 British excise duty
£12.00 Customs clearance fee.
£394.13 Total, so a premium of about £30 which I can live with.
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An update. It has cleared British customs today and I will hopefully receive it in the next couple of days.
This would be me looking at the tracking info if I had one on the way ;) :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiqkclCJsZs
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Hey David,
This is great. I was doing some organizing today and used the exercise as an excuse to handle mine. It is a truly wonderful knife, and I'm sure you will love yours too.
Myron
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Finally.
(https://i.imgur.com/VrpUSmjl.jpg)
A week's tour of Italy, long weekend in Paris, a week taking in the English countryside, then delivered to the wrong house.
Soldier = 127g and Officer = 82g weight.
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Finally it arrived, wonderful, accompanied by a Zippo Solid Copper 2022 in the image.
(https://i.postimg.cc/NMpy91Zc/IMG-6093-2.jpg)
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Glad to see it finally arrived, SAKTaschenmesser, and lovely pics SAKTAschenmesser and Elqfaltaba10! :like: :like:
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Thanks Rizio Il Ghiro, one more photo with the previous Replica Soldier's Knife 1891.
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Finally it arrived, wonderful, accompanied by a Zippo Solid Copper 2022 in the image.
The SAK is plenty nice, but that Zippo... :drool:
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Looking great guys! So fun to see the two special SAKs together. Congratulations to all who are enjoying these fine collectibles.
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Thanks Rizio Il Ghiro, one more photo with the previous Replica Soldier's Knife 1891.
:drool: