Post by: ddogu on November 24, 2017, 08:35:26 AM
Though, a question popped up in my mind now. When I obtained that tool ithe pliers were gunky and very hard to slide up, obviously the owner did not take much care of it. He said, it had been used "outdoors, in nature" and had been sitting in a cupboard for a while. So, companies like Gerber and LM make multitools suitable for military usage (like the DET or the LM MUT or the OHT), but how reliable are they? I mean, when you're out in the field in mud, sand, and a hell of a dust it feels like the tools are poised to get stuck. Especially in tools where the pliers have to engage first, so the other tools can be accessed, this can even have a lethal consequence. :oops: :surrender:
I'm starting to think and non-mechanical and solid tools are best suited for that kind of usage. Or are there any tools that are by design not affected by dirt or can very easily be cleaned, so they can at least function properly (albeit not comfortably) ? :think:
Post by: Don Pablo on November 24, 2017, 09:48:08 AM
If you don't keep your stuff clean, nothings going to work flawlessly. And it's not hard to keep it clean. :salute:
Post by: Syncop8r on November 24, 2017, 11:27:29 AM
I guess OHO tools will gunk up more quickly.
Post by: ThePeacent on November 24, 2017, 12:39:51 PM
All my flicky gerbers have had trouble in getting the saw, blade, scissors, drives etc. out because of gritty action and things inside the handles before their action was really harder, or the pliers became unflickable.
hasn't happened that often but it has.
Minimal maintenance is the cure for this disease, and an easy one. :salute:
Post by: Aloha on November 24, 2017, 01:38:00 PM
Post by: tango44 on November 24, 2017, 02:15:37 PM
I want to get a MP600 (not the EOD version) just the normal black oxide version but haven't score one yet!
Still looking, watch out for the fake ones out there!
Here is more info about those:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,18527.0.html
Post by: WoodsDuck on November 24, 2017, 04:12:13 PM
Try some WD40, will help with good results on cleaning almost everything!
I want to get a MP600 (not the EOD version) just the normal black oxide version but haven't score one yet!
Still looking, watch out for the fake ones out there!
Here is more info about those:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,18527.0.html
I mean... Without any more details of your search, I will point out the MP600 isn't exactly hard to find. If you're in the US, they're $38 on Amazon right now;
https://smile.amazon.com/Gerber-MP600-Multi-Plier-Needle-47550/dp/B000VORS1E/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1511536252&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=gerber+mp600+black&psc=1
Post by: tango44 on November 24, 2017, 04:18:00 PM
Post by: Lynn LeFey on December 07, 2017, 03:58:13 AM
The U.S. Military has issued the MP600 before. A LOT of nations issue the Victorinox Soldier knife, either the current version, or the older one. I'm certain with a degree of maintenance, both of these tools, and likely many others, would be absolutely reliable in actual combat conditions.
Post by: gerleatherberman on December 07, 2017, 04:23:48 AM
But, as others here have pointed out, a little cleaning here and there will prevent almost any MT from becoming inoperable.
Post by: WoodsDuck on December 07, 2017, 04:46:04 AM
Post by: ReamerPunch on December 07, 2017, 09:04:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_cXzbq3FDM&t=594s
Post by: tango44 on December 07, 2017, 02:30:05 PM
Tool is fine but not very practical!
To get the tools out is not easy, knife blade is small and short, same as the screw drivers.
Not the tool for me!
Victorinox Swisstool spirit is my personal favorite and it's hard to find a better tool.
Post by: Don Pablo on December 07, 2017, 02:45:38 PM
Just got my MP600 from Amazon last week, NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL!It's hard to argue with that. :D
Tool is fine but not very practical!
To get the tools out is not easy, knife blade is small and short, same as the screw drivers.
Not the tool for me!
Victorinox Swisstool spirit is my personal favorite and it's hard to find a better tool.
But the problems you are having, let's break them down.
-Tools hard to get out.
Are you sure that you are just not used to inside opening tools? Granted, having to slide out the plier head first can probably be annoying.
-Short and stubby tools.
Alas, that is a big problem with the plier design. :D It sacrifices tool length for quick deploying pliers, which leads me to the next point.
By the way, keep in mind that not everyone(or the military) considers a long knife to be important, because if the troops really need a knife to do something, they'll have a nice big folder or fixed blade, not a teensy multitool knife.
-Not practical? It depends on how you look at the tool. It's hard to beat the MP600 design if you need quick deploying pliers more than you need long tools. :tu:
Post by: G-Dizzle on December 07, 2017, 02:48:03 PM
I personally use my tools as much or more than my pliers so the Spirit is my favorite. But I can understand why if you are under fire and need the pliers in an emergency you would want them to be one handedJust got my MP600 from Amazon last week, NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL!It's hard to argue with that. :D
Tool is fine but not very practical!
To get the tools out is not easy, knife blade is small and short, same as the screw drivers.
Not the tool for me!
Victorinox Swisstool spirit is my personal favorite and it's hard to find a better tool.
But the problems you are having, let's break them down.
-Tools hard to get out.
Are you sure that you are just not used to inside opening tools? Granted, having to slide out the plier head first can probably be annoying.
-Short and stubby tools.
Alas, that is a big problem with the plier design. :D It sacrifices tool length for quick deploying pliers, which leads me to the next point.
By the way, keep in mind that not everyone(or the military) considers a long knife to be important, because if the troops really need a knife to do something, they'll have a nice big folder or fixed blade, not a teensy multitool knife.
-Not practical? It depends on how you look at the tool. It's hard to beat the MP600 design if you need quick deploying pliers more than you need long tools. :tu:
Post by: WoodsDuck on December 07, 2017, 02:59:13 PM
(https://images.knifecenter.com/thumb/1500x1500/knifecenter/gerber/images/30-001193Nc.jpg)
Just sayin'
Post by: tango44 on December 07, 2017, 03:04:48 PM
Post by: Nix on December 07, 2017, 03:12:50 PM
I'm not sure all soldiers are always so fastidious though.... :o
Post by: gerleatherberman on December 07, 2017, 04:06:52 PM
I say that, because the Spirit is the absolute easiest MT to gunk up and jam in a harsh work environment. Tolerances are extremely tight. I found I had to clean and oil mine very often when in use at my job. And mine was only exposed to saw dust and sanding dust. I imagine dirt and sand would be even worse. You CANNOT disassemble and do a real cleaning on it either.
Another thing is the swisstool (both spirit and the big swisstool) are pretty much useless when your fingernails aren't in good shape. I tear my finger nails fairly often, so I know that to be a fact.
I like both, but find them mostly suitable for clean work environments.
Anyway. /rant.
Post by: WoodsDuck on December 07, 2017, 04:16:13 PM
Interesting people keep plugging the swisstool spirit in subforums not pertaining to victorinox. :think:
I say that, because the Spirit is the absolute easiest MT to gunk up and jam in a harsh work environment. Tolerances are extremely tight. I found I had to clean and oil mine very often when in use at my job. And mine was only exposed to saw dust and sanding dust. I imagine dirt and sand would be even worse. You CANNOT disassemble and do a real cleaning on it either.
Another thing is the swisstool (both spirit and the big swisstool) are pretty much useless when your fingernails aren't in good shape. I tear my finger nails fairly often, so I know that to be a fact.
I like both, but find them mostly suitable for clean work environments.
Anyway. /rant.
I made a similar post in another thread a while back. Most likely sand would be a major problem for the Spirit.
Post by: Don Pablo on December 07, 2017, 04:23:20 PM
Use the Spirit in an IT or office environment.Interesting people keep plugging the swisstool spirit in subforums not pertaining to victorinox. :think:
I say that, because the Spirit is the absolute easiest MT to gunk up and jam in a harsh work environment. Tolerances are extremely tight. I found I had to clean and oil mine very often when in use at my job. And mine was only exposed to saw dust and sanding dust. I imagine dirt and sand would be even worse. You CANNOT disassemble and do a real cleaning on it either.
Another thing is the swisstool (both spirit and the big swisstool) are pretty much useless when your fingernails aren't in good shape. I tear my finger nails fairly often, so I know that to be a fact.
I like both, but find them mostly suitable for clean work environments.
Anyway. /rant.
I made a similar post in another thread a while back. Most likely sand would be a major problem for the Spirit.
MP600 AK-47 kind of tools in a dirty environment.
:D
Post by: Lynn LeFey on December 07, 2017, 04:33:01 PM
Post by: G-Dizzle on December 07, 2017, 04:42:04 PM
Post by: WoodsDuck on December 07, 2017, 04:49:17 PM
The Spirit is an awesome tool and I love mine. I've been carrying it in my backpack since 2016 :tu:
Also, it's the only MT I have that I wouldn't be afraid to dunk in water to clean out in the field. It may not be rust proof, but it's a lot closer than any of my other non-SAK MTs. This may mitigate the vulnerability to grit and grime somewhat.
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on December 07, 2017, 06:12:49 PM
This might help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_cXzbq3FDM&t=594s
How can you talk for almost 17 minutes about something and still not know a damned thing about it? SOG created a sliding head plier tool? Since when?
Also, pretty sure the military does a lot more than just throw multitools at gravel, dirt and fences. :facepalm:
And I am not sure that any multitool is going to easily remove bolts from a HUMVEE, nor is anyone ever likely to be trying to fix one in the field- if they get damaged the troops pile into another vehicle in the convoy and it is either towed or abandoned.
Def
Post by: G-Dizzle on December 07, 2017, 06:41:34 PM
Yeah.. i used to like this guys videos but they have gone downhillThis might help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_cXzbq3FDM&t=594s
How can you talk for almost 17 minutes about something and still not know a damned thing about it? SOG created a sliding head plier tool? Since when?
Also, pretty sure the military does a lot more than just throw multitools at gravel, dirt and fences. :facepalm:
And I am not sure that any multitool is going to easily remove bolts from a HUMVEE, nor is anyone ever likely to be trying to fix one in the field- if they get damaged the troops pile into another vehicle in the convoy and it is either towed or abandoned.
Def
Post by: WoodsDuck on December 07, 2017, 06:59:13 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYvwppORhLQ
Enjoy Wranglershill trashing the Wave and lauding the amazing quality of Irwin.
Post by: Don Pablo on December 07, 2017, 07:02:57 PM
You want to see a terrible tool review? I was tempted to make a thread just to showcase this nonsense, but here you go;Nice going, comparing apples and oranges. :rofl:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYvwppORhLQ
Enjoy Wranglershill trashing the Wave and lauding the amazing quality of Irwin.
Post by: Mechanickal on December 07, 2017, 10:08:27 PM
The ultimate way to turn a bad day into :rofl:
Post by: cody6268 on December 15, 2017, 02:53:18 PM
You want to see a terrible tool review? I was tempted to make a thread just to showcase this nonsense, but here you go;d
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYvwppORhLQ
Enjoy Wranglershill trashing the Wave and lauding the amazing quality of Irwin.
Oh boy, that piece of crap. I bought the 6LN based model the Christmas season they came out at Lowes, and I ended up throwing it in the bottom of my toolbox, as the pliers were hard to unlock (even more than a 9R pair from the '40s that predated the quick release!), and the bit driver closed up easily, having only been held open by flimsy ball bearing detent. The blade steel is crap, doesn't hold an edge. And, the rivets holding the tool together were quite loose--making it flimsier than even Harbor Freight locking pliers.
Post by: ChrisEDC247 on December 16, 2017, 09:47:36 AM
https://youtu.be/9n3MGxyNBQI
Post by: Don Pablo on December 16, 2017, 11:17:54 AM
Wranglestar "keeps the hits coming" with this review of a Knipex mini bolt cutter which he uses to cut nails and washers. He compared them to a Gerber CD and a set of Snap-on Side cutters. Neither of those tools are designed to cut these things yet he suggests that the side cutters and MT are worthless compared to the Knipex. Obviously he shatters the Gerbers carbide cutters, which I will admit are brittle but will easily cut 16 awg steel WIRE just fine. Sometimes he's brilliant on his tool videos and then other times I'm left scratching my head. I'm not a homesteader, so maybe I don't get it... :facepalm:Are you telling me that you're not supposed to cut big nails with a multitool?! >:(
https://youtu.be/9n3MGxyNBQI
:P
Post by: Mechanickal on December 16, 2017, 12:43:51 PM
No, that way you'll Pablo them...Wranglestar "keeps the hits coming" with this review of a Knipex mini bolt cutter which he uses to cut nails and washers. He compared them to a Gerber CD and a set of Snap-on Side cutters. Neither of those tools are designed to cut these things yet he suggests that the side cutters and MT are worthless compared to the Knipex. Obviously he shatters the Gerbers carbide cutters, which I will admit are brittle but will easily cut 16 awg steel WIRE just fine. Sometimes he's brilliant on his tool videos and then other times I'm left scratching my head. I'm not a homesteader, so maybe I don't get it... :facepalm:Are you telling me that you're not supposed to cut big nails with a multitool?! >:(
https://youtu.be/9n3MGxyNBQI
Post by: Nix on December 16, 2017, 02:27:49 PM
Post by: Don Pablo on December 16, 2017, 02:51:29 PM
Post by: Mechanickal on December 16, 2017, 02:54:01 PM
So the guy in the video likes to Pablo his multitools as well? :like: :tu:Get a room you 2... :dwts:
Post by: Don Pablo on December 16, 2017, 03:10:38 PM
A room... Full of pristine condition vintage tools.... :dd:So the guy in the video likes to Pablo his multitools as well? :like: :tu:Get a room you 2... :dwts:
Post by: Mechanickal on December 16, 2017, 03:29:03 PM
A room... Full of pristine condition vintage tools.... :dd:So the guy in the video likes to Pablo his multitools as well? :like: :tu:Get a room you 2... :dwts:
If he's like you, there will be no pristine tool whatsoever in there...
Post by: Don Pablo on December 16, 2017, 03:33:38 PM
Not once we're done with them... >:DA room... Full of pristine condition vintage tools.... :dd:So the guy in the video likes to Pablo his multitools as well? :like: :tu:Get a room you 2... :dwts:
If he's like you, there will be no pristine tool whatsoever in there...
Post by: WoodsDuck on December 16, 2017, 04:18:11 PM
Wranglestar "keeps the hits coming" with this review of a Knipex mini bolt cutter which he uses to cut nails and washers. He compared them to a Gerber CD and a set of Snap-on Side cutters. Neither of those tools are designed to cut these things yet he suggests that the side cutters and MT are worthless compared to the Knipex. Obviously he shatters the Gerbers carbide cutters, which I will admit are brittle but will easily cut 16 awg steel WIRE just fine. Sometimes he's brilliant on his tool videos and then other times I'm left scratching my head. I'm not a homesteader, so maybe I don't get it... :facepalm:
https://youtu.be/9n3MGxyNBQI
And then he always says he buys things with his own money, or it was sent to him, and it's not a sponsored video... But then he uses affiliate links, which give him money when you go buy the item through them. Which means he doesn't need sponsors, he just needs to make the featured product look like the best thing ever through whatever means he can and the viewers do the sponsoring for him. And there are enough idiots on YouTube who think "this isn't sponsored" means it's a legit opinion to keep him rolling in cash.
Add to this the "testing" videos where he tells a story about his grandad for 20 minutes and spends 15 seconds using the product (not exaggerating at all here), and this channel is an embarrassment. Oh, and his infomercial-tier acting.
Post by: dks on December 16, 2017, 04:25:47 PM
https://youtu.be/GQ2HamoWtG4
Post by: WoodsDuck on December 16, 2017, 04:45:38 PM
Everybody does it -even this guy..., whoever he is
https://youtu.be/GQ2HamoWtG4
A bit more credible than trying to cut a deck screw with sidecutters though.
Post by: dks on December 16, 2017, 04:51:25 PM
I can not be bothered to get into a pro-anti LM, is Tim good or not and so on discussion
Post by: WoodsDuck on December 16, 2017, 05:03:54 PM
In case it was missed, my post was meant to be seen in a joking way -
I can not be bothered to get into a pro-anti LM, is Tim good or not and so on discussion
It was clearly at least half joking. I just responded to it seriously because no funny replies came to mind. I blame sleep deprivation.
Show content
Also Kirky.
Post by: dks on December 16, 2017, 05:07:37 PM
Post by: ChrisEDC247 on December 16, 2017, 05:22:43 PM
Everybody does it -even this guy..., whoever he is
https://youtu.be/GQ2HamoWtG4
A bit more credible than trying to cut a deck screw with sidecutters though.
No love lost, I get the joke and I'm not hating on any tool or maker. I think the Gerber forum is always a bit more nuanced in it's understanding of tools but it just goes to illustrate how people can misrepresent the capabilities of these MTs.
I love Leatherman tools and currently own and carry several models... but this demonstration is very misleading and it's the other side of the same coin.
First he demonstrates the ability of the fine wire cutter portion to cut paper. Fair enough that's a good thing: precision and all. But then comes the misdirection, he says I'm going to cut a nail in half. So he takes out a nail big enough and brittle enough to shatter with the right force. He puts it into the hard wire cutter portion of the pliers, not exactly the same part of the tool he was just demonstrating. Then he breaks out a special JIG which supports one side of the plier head and holds the handles so they can't lever around too much. He gives himself an out in case it does shatter by saying maybe "I'll get lucky" which btw I'm sure he has a line if it does break. Once he cuts the nail he goes back to showing the soft wire cutters can cut paper still suggesting that the plier heads have not become misaligned. The pliers however wouldn't become misaligned because the tool is designed to cam tighter when force is applied AND the majority of the force was put to only one handle using the special jig eliminating a lot of those rotational stresses. The showmanship is appreciated but this is a magic trick. I feel me and Tim in a room could have a nuanced discussion about this demonstration but when some dummy tries this at home and breaks the darn thing he's going to blame Leatherman and not his own stupidity.
Sadly Gerber seems to be allowing other people to misuse their tools on YouTube. Maybe they should do an instructional video on uses for the carbide cutters so people have reasonable expectations. A lot of power tool companies do this and it's probably a good idea to keep yabbos from thinking a tack hammer is a 10lb sledge.
Post by: ChrisEDC247 on December 16, 2017, 05:40:26 PM
Wranglestar "keeps the hits coming" with this review of a Knipex mini bolt cutter which he uses to cut nails and washers. He compared them to a Gerber CD and a set of Snap-on Side cutters. Neither of those tools are designed to cut these things yet he suggests that the side cutters and MT are worthless compared to the Knipex. Obviously he shatters the Gerbers carbide cutters, which I will admit are brittle but will easily cut 16 awg steel WIRE just fine. Sometimes he's brilliant on his tool videos and then other times I'm left scratching my head. I'm not a homesteader, so maybe I don't get it... :facepalm:
https://youtu.be/9n3MGxyNBQI
And then he always says he buys things with his own money, or it was sent to him, and it's not a sponsored video... But then he uses affiliate links, which give him money when you go buy the item through them. Which means he doesn't need sponsors, he just needs to make the featured product look like the best thing ever through whatever means he can and the viewers do the sponsoring for him. And there are enough idiots on YouTube who think "this isn't sponsored" means it's a legit opinion to keep him rolling in cash.
Add to this the "testing" videos where he tells a story about his grandad for 20 minutes and spends 15 seconds using the product (not exaggerating at all here), and this channel is an embarrassment. Oh, and his infomercial-tier acting.
Don't get me wrong, the grandad stuff is great and some his videos are legitimately informative. But lately he's trying to do a lot of the stuff that AvE does on his channel, like testing a tool until it breaks or bolting two power drills together. However the difference is that AvE explains all the reasons why stuff fails and pulls things apart to show the viewer in detail, always stopping to provide counterpoints and exceptions to even the things HE believes "as facts"!
I keep looking at the title of this thread: are multitools reliable for military conditions? I mean is a M-16 rifle reliable if you compare it to a Rambo movie?!?
Post by: pomsbz on December 16, 2017, 06:16:38 PM
I feel me and Tim in a room could have a nuanced discussion about this demonstration but when some dummy tries this at home and breaks the darn thing he's going to blame Leatherman and not his own stupidity.
On the other hand its useful to know that LM would not be able to deny warranty for abuse usage of this kind. They've rather volunteered for it!
Post by: ChrisEDC247 on December 16, 2017, 07:49:57 PM
I feel me and Tim in a room could have a nuanced discussion about this demonstration but when some dummy tries this at home and breaks the darn thing he's going to blame Leatherman and not his own stupidity.
On the other hand its useful to know that LM would not be able to deny warranty for abuse usage of this kind. They've rather volunteered for it!
That's a quarter century of guaranteed nail cutting! :like:
Post by: Lynn LeFey on December 16, 2017, 11:21:49 PM
Post by: ChrisEDC247 on December 16, 2017, 11:35:52 PM
I did that 'stand on the handle of a multitool to cut a nail' with two multitools. One of them, the Leatherman Wingman, passed that test unscathed. I was, honestly, shocked. I am no dainty thing. I guarantee I weigh more than Tim Leatherman.
Just curious what happened to the other one?
Post by: Lynn LeFey on December 17, 2017, 12:24:25 AM
I did that 'stand on the handle of a multitool to cut a nail' with two multitools. One of them, the Leatherman Wingman, passed that test unscathed. I was, honestly, shocked. I am no dainty thing. I guarantee I weigh more than Tim Leatherman.
Just curious what happened to the other one?
The other one was the infamous Camillus made Les Stroud Engage multitool. It bent both of the pins that connected the plier head to the handles so badly that the handles would touch before the plier head would close.
Post by: Don Pablo on December 17, 2017, 12:47:09 AM
And then it was terminated violently. >:DI did that 'stand on the handle of a multitool to cut a nail' with two multitools. One of them, the Leatherman Wingman, passed that test unscathed. I was, honestly, shocked. I am no dainty thing. I guarantee I weigh more than Tim Leatherman.
Just curious what happened to the other one?
The other one was the infamous Camillus made Les Stroud Engage multitool. It bent both of the pins that connected the plier head to the handles so badly that the handles would touch before the plier head would close.
Post by: Lynn LeFey on December 17, 2017, 12:53:30 AM
And then it was terminated violently. >:D
I do seem to recall that a sniper rifle and military grade explosives were involved.
So, to partially answer the OP's question, the Engage is NOT reliable for Military Conditions. :rofl:
Post by: Don Pablo on December 17, 2017, 12:56:59 AM
In those conditions, what multitool is? :angel:And then it was terminated violently. >:D
I do seem to recall that a sniper rifle and military grade explosives were involved.
So, to partially answer the OP's question, the Engage is NOT reliable for Military Conditions. :rofl:
Post by: ChrisEDC247 on December 17, 2017, 02:18:00 AM
In those conditions, what multitool is? :angel:And then it was terminated violently. >:D
I do seem to recall that a sniper rifle and military grade explosives were involved.
So, to partially answer the OP's question, the Engage is NOT reliable for Military Conditions. :rofl:
It's a real shame that Camillus stuff is so bad, because as a survival expert I rank Les Stroud much much higher than Bear Gryls and yet somehow his stuff from Gerber seems higher quality. And the Gerber BG stuff isn't very good as it is.
Post by: WoodsDuck on December 17, 2017, 04:59:07 AM
Bear Grylls is a survivalist? I thought he was a stuntman :think:In those conditions, what multitool is? :angel:And then it was terminated violently. >:D
I do seem to recall that a sniper rifle and military grade explosives were involved.
So, to partially answer the OP's question, the Engage is NOT reliable for Military Conditions. :rofl:
It's a real shame that Camillus stuff is so bad, because as a survival expert I rank Les Stroud much much higher than Bear Gryls and yet somehow his stuff from Gerber seems higher quality. And the Gerber BG stuff isn't very good as it is.
Post by: tango44 on December 18, 2017, 02:06:32 PM
Everybody does it -even this guy..., whoever he is
A bit more credible than trying to cut a deck screw with sidecutters though.
No love lost, I get the joke and I'm not hating on any tool or maker. I think the Gerber forum is always a bit more nuanced in it's understanding of tools but it just goes to illustrate how people can misrepresent the capabilities of these MTs.
I love Leatherman tools and currently own and carry several models... but this demonstration is very misleading and it's the other side of the same coin.
First he demonstrates the ability of the fine wire cutter portion to cut paper. Fair enough that's a good thing: precision and all. But then comes the misdirection, he says I'm going to cut a nail in half. So he takes out a nail big enough and brittle enough to shatter with the right force. He puts it into the hard wire cutter portion of the pliers, not exactly the same part of the tool he was just demonstrating. Then he breaks out a special JIG which supports one side of the plier head and holds the handles so they can't lever around too much. He gives himself an out in case it does shatter by saying maybe "I'll get lucky" which btw I'm sure he has a line if it does break. Once he cuts the nail he goes back to showing the soft wire cutters can cut paper still suggesting that the plier heads have not become misaligned. The pliers however wouldn't become misaligned because the tool is designed to cam tighter when force is applied AND the majority of the force was put to only one handle using the special jig eliminating a lot of those rotational stresses. The showmanship is appreciated but this is a magic trick. I feel me and Tim in a room could have a nuanced discussion about this demonstration but when some dummy tries this at home and breaks the darn thing he's going to blame Leatherman and not his own stupidity.
Sadly Gerber seems to be allowing other people to misuse their tools on YouTube. Maybe they should do an instructional video on uses for the carbide cutters so people have reasonable expectations. A lot of power tool companies do this and it's probably a good idea to keep yabbos from thinking a tack hammer is a 10lb sledge.
So true! people pretend that a multitool is the only tool you will ever need..only MacGyver....
Post by: WiseDuck on December 24, 2017, 11:47:44 AM
Post by: Chako on January 01, 2018, 03:12:26 PM
Here is a link to a 2015 article where I took the time to gather all of my gear and give my opinion on each. Yes, this is slightly outdated...but that original thread took an awful long time to make. I will re-post it here as you might find it somewhat interesting and possibly relevant to the discussion.
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,57044.0.html
Post by: ThundahBeagle on January 02, 2018, 12:45:08 AM
Post by: WoodsDuck on January 02, 2018, 01:04:41 AM
Too bad about the bad quality folks have attributed to this. I can't speak to the quality of this particular attempt at multi-tool, but I use Irwin Vice Grips and find them helpfu and a quality tool for automotive applications. This idea is good, I think, if lacking in its implementation. Twelve or 15 bucks vs $90 for an ON WAVE...even if some of the tool quality isn't great, it's still probably an easier purchase to justify for John Q. Public.
Indeed, the price points are so far apart it's a silly comparison anyway. And, like you say, a much more tempting impulse purchase.
As far as the pliers go, even Irwin's newer made in China examples are perfectly functional. But this is one example where I'd rather have a couple dedicated tools than the MT in question. I could get a lot more utility out of a set of locking pliers and a folder, without the form of either interfering with the function of the other, as it appears the Irwin MT's implements may do.
Post by: ThundahBeagle on January 02, 2018, 04:58:05 AM
Too bad about the bad quality folks have attributed to this. I can't speak to the quality of this particular attempt at multi-tool, but I use Irwin Vice Grips and find them helpfu and a quality tool for automotive applications. This idea is good, I think, if lacking in its implementation. Twelve or 15 bucks vs $90 for an ON WAVE...even if some of the tool quality isn't great, it's still probably an easier purchase to justify for John Q. Public.
Indeed, the price points are so far apart it's a silly comparison anyway. And, like you say, a much more tempting impulse purchase.
As far as the pliers go, even Irwin's newer made in China examples are perfectly functional. But this is one example where I'd rather have a couple dedicated tools than the MT in question. I could get a lot more utility out of a set of locking pliers and a folder, without the form of either interfering with the function of the other, as it appears the Irwin MT's implements may do.
The price points may be far apart and the tool placement may be "iffy" where the knife is concerned, but isn't this essentially how Tim Leatherman came up with his design? By deciding what tools he needed most and fusing them together in one? Certainly Irwin is not embarking on any original journey here, but this could be handy for a car mechanic. And not everyone out there would even care that the blade doesn't compare to that of a Leatherman. The Wingman is popular because folks in maintenance are comfortable using the hell out of it to point of failure. It's inexpensive enough that people aren't bothered by ruining it and replacing it.
While I don't see many mechanics buying this Irwin, and I don't see any multi-tool aficionados flocking to it, I do see folks just entering the trades, or who want a Leatherman but can't afford it, buying one. And at the very least, they will have a quality Vice-Grips, maybe with a couple side benefits
Post by: ThundahBeagle on January 02, 2018, 05:08:02 AM
To the point of loose tolerances, I think one need only look at the M-16 vs the AK-47 to see which malfunctioned just because of a little carbon scoring near the ejection port, and which has a very long throw safety lever.
Sometimes the looser tolerances allow for mud, dirt, and carbon buildup, and the easier cleaning of such things. The simpler designs will hold up to the harsher punishment, where materials and craftsmanship are the same.
Post by: Chako on January 02, 2018, 12:22:30 PM
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/ross-rifle/
Post by: Don Pablo on January 02, 2018, 12:55:33 PM
History is full of failed weapons that couldn't withstand the conditions of a battlefield. For Canada, the Ross Rifle is an excellent example."Poorly made British ammunition" :rofl:
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/ross-rifle/
Post by: Sam Lim on January 02, 2018, 03:22:08 PM
History is full of failed weapons that couldn't withstand the conditions of a battlefield. For Canada, the Ross Rifle is an excellent example."Poorly made British ammunition" :rofl:
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/ross-rifle/
Lol. That sounds like a brilliant back up plan by the British.
Post by: pomsbz on January 02, 2018, 05:19:06 PM
History is full of failed weapons that couldn't withstand the conditions of a battlefield. For Canada, the Ross Rifle is an excellent example."Poorly made British ammunition" :rofl:
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/ross-rifle/
Or the fact that it might slightly fire it's bolt out backwards. :D I've heard it said that it was a precision hunting rifle design that had no place in the mud of the trenches.
Post by: Syncop8r on January 02, 2018, 09:32:10 PM
History is full of failed weapons that couldn't withstand the conditions of a battlefield. For Canada, the Ross Rifle is an excellent example."Poorly made British ammunition" :rofl:
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/ross-rifle/
Quote
... that worked fine in the more forgiving Lee-Enfields, but was unsuited to the Ross.::)
Post by: Don Pablo on January 03, 2018, 12:45:09 AM
Are you saying that the Lee-Enfields were made to looser tolerances? Because that's not really praise.:whistle:History is full of failed weapons that couldn't withstand the conditions of a battlefield. For Canada, the Ross Rifle is an excellent example."Poorly made British ammunition" :rofl:
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/ross-rifle/Quote... that worked fine in the more forgiving Lee-Enfields, but was unsuited to the Ross.::)
I mean, imagine a SAK that rattled when you shock it! :dwts:
Post by: Syncop8r on January 03, 2018, 12:51:16 AM
Post by: Don Pablo on January 03, 2018, 01:16:14 AM
Post by: israelpiper on January 21, 2018, 05:23:53 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/1H0OdlR.png)
All of which is a testimony to the reliability of this multi tool, at least, under hard-use military conditions. Care packages for IDF soldiers often specify Leatherman for combat and mechanic duties. Possibly only pizza delivery, is more important--with gatkes and garbayim (thermal underwear and socks).
Post by: pomsbz on January 21, 2018, 05:52:36 PM
The Armoured Corps Brigades in Israel have long experience with Leatherman, especially the Wave. Here 300 are being delivered to a unit:
(https://i.imgur.com/1H0OdlR.png)
All of which is a testimony to the reliability of this multi tool, at least, under hard-use military conditions. Care packages for IDF soldiers often specify Leatherman for combat and mechanic duties. Possibly only pizza delivery, is more important--with gatkes and garbayim (thermal underwear and socks).
I would not have been seen dead in 'gatkes' until my army service. I realised quickly that not freezing my tuches off on night duty was more important than being cool. :D Didn't have a Wave back then (17 years ago) or any knife for that matter. I was super proud of my Mini Maglite with tungsten bulb though. It had about 5 lumen. :D
Post by: Don Pablo on January 21, 2018, 07:55:41 PM
My AAA twisty can output 0.02 lumens. :facepalm:The Armoured Corps Brigades in Israel have long experience with Leatherman, especially the Wave. Here 300 are being delivered to a unit:
(https://i.imgur.com/1H0OdlR.png)
All of which is a testimony to the reliability of this multi tool, at least, under hard-use military conditions. Care packages for IDF soldiers often specify Leatherman for combat and mechanic duties. Possibly only pizza delivery, is more important--with gatkes and garbayim (thermal underwear and socks).
I would not have been seen dead in 'gatkes' until my army service. I realised quickly that not freezing my tuches off on night duty was more important than being cool. :D Didn't have a Wave back then (17 years ago) or any knife for that matter. I was super proud of my Mini Maglite with tungsten bulb though. It had about 5 lumen. :D
(Nevermind that it also has 12 and 150 lumen modes. :whistle: :D )