Multitool.org Forum
Tool Talk => Swiss Army Knights Forum => Topic started by: ToolJoe on May 18, 2014, 05:26:12 AM
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I have considered giving a swisstool a try. I like the idea of all tools being on the outside and locking. How are they compared to a leatherman?
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In my personal opinion the Swisstool and Swisstool Spirit line are far superior to Leatherman in fit and finish. There have been a lot of people mentioning the pliers head having some play in them which seems normal for the Swisstool. I have noticed the same, but the ones I own have minimal play and have not gotten worse so it is not really a issue for me, but it is worth noting. None of the tools are one hand opening, but for me this is not normally needed so it is not a issue for me. The rust resistance is much better than Leatherman due to the high polish, but in turn that leads to less grip especially when your hands are wet or sweaty. Another thing worth noting is the Swisstools do not offer higher quality steel in the main blade like Leatherman, but that is a personal preference kind of thing and again it is not a issue for me. The pliers head are a different shape than Leathermans which is also a preference thing. They are more of a hybrid design between a blunt nose and needle nose. These are just a few things off the top of my head. If you have any specific questions please feel free to ask.
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Buy one.
Swiss Army knives .
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Buy one.
Swiss Army knives .
That's the MTO way ;)
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You might also want to investigate the later (locking) versions of the Bear Jaws tools - it is believed that Victorinox purchased the company to get the patents for outside opening tools.
If you like an MT that feels very precise and well-engineered then definitely have a good look at a Swisstool and a Spirit.
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I have both Swisstools and a few Leatherman tools that are however among the most celebrated.
As already mentioned the fit and finish of the Swisstools is uncomparable. I consider them jewels and I said that many times. They are rewarding for the touch, vision and audition, since they make that nice snaping sound when you open and close the various tools. The rivets are fixed and the tools are neither loose (as in my Surge) nor stiff (as in my Charge).
The Spirit has the most ergonomic handles I have seen. Both tools are respecting your hands. The Swisstool has a unique ability to measure right angles and in general it has a great ruler feature. They both have individual spings and a great locking mechanism that can be accessed from two sides with the thumb. They both have some both higly evolved over the course of a century tools (like the Swisstool's Vic blade, a bigger version of the 91-93mm one, the can opener, bottle opener, the saw and newer type of file, the Philips head) and unique tools like the chisel/scraper/wire striper and the awl with hook. Most Swisstool tools are bigger than the ones on the 91/93mm SAKs and some of the Spirit's are smaller, except the bottle opener/driver that is a great prying tool. So they add capabilities to a SAK owner. In fact I think that Vic should make a Swisstool companion SAK, lacking all the tools of the Swisstool or Spirit and having only the ones they don't have (scissors, magnifier, nail file, scale tools, Cybertool, pruner, electrician and watchmaker's blades, small blade, corkscrew etc). It would make a perfect set and save weight money and space for not having a Swisschamp or Cybertool doubling the same tools.
You can open two tools in opposite handles and make a long tool for reaching distant objects. You may align the handles open and use the blade with a thin handle formation. The blades' edge are always free from obstacles, compared with inside opening multitools. All driver's have longer reach and you can add Torx/Hex capability with the Vctorinox wrench/ratchet or an easy to make adaptor for the Philips driver. The hybrid pliers are more versatile. You can handle a nail coaxially for example.
Vik's pouches have always been the best and the most beautiful and there are Plus versions with space for bit kits, wrench or ratchet, corkscrew and mini driver. The nylon OD MOLE military pouch is very thin and that also has space for the adapters and a bit kit.
They are more "Rostfrei" and they have the most reassuring logo ever engraved on them.
Then, what's left for Leatherman?
Well, they have a greatest variety for starters. There are 4-5 different sizes with different tools and different colors. There are also scissors and shears centered tools, even locking pliers. There are other tools like the OHO and inside, outside and mixed tools.
I don't compare the Supertools and Rebars since they are like Swisstools but with inside opening tools and lacking in many features I described above. I won't compare Squirts and Juices because they are of a SAK size and functionality. Neither OHO, military, garden and other specialized tools. What is left is the Surge and the Wave/Charge.
These have some very nice features, among them the outside one hand opening tools, blade exchanger for the Surge, bit driver with space saving bits, the gut hook of the Charge (I love that), the small bit driver (great for the Wave/Charge that are light enough to use it, irrelevant in the heavy duty Surge), the diamond file (especially the Surge's that can sharpen it's blade), the carbide cutters (not universally available yet and not needed for regular jobs), the better steel of the main blade (I only trust SV30 and not the 154CM for some reason), the universally double blade configuration (I like to use the serrated blade for most tasks, saving the plain edge's life), the included lanyard hole and the additional bigger lanyard hole and, most useful, belt clip.
I am not a collector but a user of light to medium duty tasks. I like both styles but Swisstools better. I decided to leave the heavy Swisstool and Surge behind in order to carry both the Spirit and Charge TTi. I take out the TTi always, because of the OHO blades mostly. When I need two pliers (that's more often that I thought it would be) or longer reaching drivers or a specialized function (like the chisel or the awl or the hook) I take out the Spirit. I could use the Spirit for most tasks I am using the Charge though if I only had that (and I did that for many months before I got the Charge with no problem).
I am just an MTO member, so I had to have both. If a had to choose just one for any reason, I would choose the Spirit if I was in Europe and the Charge if I was in the Americas (or the Swisstool and Surge repectivelly if I was a manual worker and not just a hobbyist). And I would be happy with both.
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Not an expert, but I have both a LM ST and a Vic Spirit X.
The LM is great, but the Vic just blew me away:
Vic advantages:
- Amazing fit & finish
- Great look
- Great ergonomics
- Less rust-prone steel (smells better too)
- Nicer tool selection
- Very good locking and springs system
- Amazing functionality in a package smaller than a Swisschamp
LM advantages:
- Needle nose pliers
- Better variation
- Amazing metal file
Vic minuses:
- Can become slippery
- Scissors open just a bit
- No OHO
But for me... when I got my Spirit it went straight to edc while the LM was relegated to car glove box duty.
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I prefer the Spirit , 95% of the capability , less weight and bulk . F/F , and implement quality is far superior to Leatherman . To me it comes down to how much OHO means to you . I always carry a folder , so for me , it's a non issue .
I would go with the Swisstool , if I was to be allowed no other tools .
You can't go wrong with either a Swisstool, or a Spirit .
Chris
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Buy one.
yep, that's about all you need to know. there will be no regrets.
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DO IT!
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DO IT!
+1
Sent from my XT901 using Tapatalk
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I have considered giving a swisstool a try. I like the idea of all tools being on the outside and locking. How are they compared to a leatherman?
When I first looked at the Swisstools I drooled. I couldnt wait to get one and see what all the fuss was about. When I finally got one ( a very used Swisstool ) I was no less impressed. They are so gorgeous and the build quality is excellent even the old tool I got felt and looked great.
Like any new tool I was excited to use it and use it I did. I really liked the bluntish plier head and that I didnt have to open the tool to access the other tools. I really liked how this tool felt in hand but mostly I loved how it performed at everything I threw at it. The thickness of the outside tools instills confidence that you can push this tool HARD.
My used tool came with a broken serrated blade but a few minutes with the dremil and it was a shorter but no less capable version. I imagine someone really abused the blade for it to break. This tool also had some very minor rust but it was easily cleared away. Over all it was in remarkable shape considering it looked to have had a very hard life.
These Swisstools while beautiful are meant to use and use hard. Some hesitate to get after them because of not wanting to mar the pretty polished handles. Mine looks great and has held up remarkably well, heck I say it still looks gorgeous.
"As compared to Leatherman", This is the Million Dollar Question isn't it?
In my year here at MTo and now having nearly all the Swisstool variations they aren't meant to compete. They are pretty but I wouldn't say better looking. They are very well engineered but look at the Wave, Surge, and Crunch for example those are no slouches. Add the PLUS kit to any Swisstool and BAM! you have a nice capable tool but add the LM bit set and extension and you are also good to go.
I love the Swisstools BUT nothing beats my New BO Surge for work detail yet I like the Spirit for off day carry tho I may also bring my Wave. To me it's like choosing between cantaloupe, watermelon, or honeydew melon and to that I say YES PLEASE.
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Where can I find a list of all the different swisstool and spirit models? I looked on Amazon and there were a crap ton of both.
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Where can I find a list of all the different swisstool and spirit models? I looked on Amazon and there were a crap ton of both.
Victorinox SwissTool & SwissTool Spirit Models (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXfG7g658Lc#ws)
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Where can I find a list of all the different swisstool and spirit models? I looked on Amazon and there were a crap ton of both.
Quite a bit of reading here but this (http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,1575.0.html) may a good start.
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Don't Do It!!!!! Forget you ever saw this place!!
Few that pass this way ever return.
You have been warned!!!
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Don't Do It!!!!! Forget you ever saw this place!!
Few that pass this way ever return.
You have been warned!!!
He's right...this sign is on the door of the Victorinox factory store...
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ZgnoRwsbDzI/S8ZXsD2dgyI/AAAAAAAABws/WrOd7vCnHs0/s320/abandonhope1.jpg)
:D
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Don't Do It!!!!! Forget you ever saw this place!!
Few that pass this way ever return.
You have been warned!!!
No truer words ever spoken. However the seduction is soooo powerful. :assimilate:
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(http://i.imgur.com/hIEEc19.gif)
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Damn, this makes me wanna buy a Spirit even more!!! But which one, with the knife or with scissors?
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Damn, this makes me wanna buy a Spirit even more!!! But which one, with the knife of with scissors?
Scissors, every time IMO.
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Damn, this makes me wanna buy a Spirit even more!!! But which one, with the knife of with scissors?
Scissors, every time IMO.
+ 1 to that, but correct me if I'm wrong, don't they all have scissors :think: I thought the 'options' were only straight blade OR serrated 'butter knife' blade (if we're talking Spirit) ?
as to ToolJoes original question, "you NEED to try a swisstool, and a spirit!"
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Schaar = Scissor
Mes = Knife
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/20/e4usy7yp.jpg)
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I stand corrected ! and NOT for the first time :facepalm: (and by a lady ! ....still not my first time :whistle:)
you do 'need' the scissors tho ! they sadly aren't as good on a spirit as the standard Victorinox scissors (as seen in the swisstool/SAKs) due to their limited opening.
verdict on butterknife blade IMO is very nice and it wouldn't put me off the tool. I got a plain bladed (with scissors), which I don't regret, but the 'butter blade' wouldn't be a deal breaker if I needed to get another for EDC. hell I would probably opt for a serrated blade and carry something else too. be a great excuse to shop for a 'folder' ::)
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I really like the butter blade since I usually have a straight blade on me ( SAK ). I wasn't a fan of the Spirit scissors however they work and having them on the tool would make the tool stand alone. The butter blade is wicked sharp OTB.
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I stand corrected ! and NOT for the first time :facepalm: (and by a lady ! ....still not my first time :whistle:)
Sorry!!! ;)
Pfff, but where to put it? And it's expensive. Gonna think this over… Hard to buy a used one in The Netherlands.
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lol I got mine from second hand the 'Netherlands' Serena :D (or should I say "pre-owned'' or "loved by another member of MTO before me !")
trust me they are great tools, the price is way to much IMO but comparable to LM etc
go on you know you want to ;)
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I'll keep my eyes open!!!
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The prettiest Spirit is the RT :D
The Spirit has lots of awesome tools, all with long reach. Like all Victorinox, I'm not a huge fan of the blade shape. It has many tools you don't see on other MTs like the hook, chisel and a extra beefy flat screwdriver.
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lol I got mine from second hand the 'Netherlands' Serena :D (or should I say "pre-owned'' or "loved by another member of MTO before me !")
trust me they are great tools, the price is way to much IMO but comparable to LM etc
go on you know you want to ;)
I never should've sold that one :facepalm: :whistle:
Anyway, I got another one, with the serrated blade, and after missing it for too long, I love it even more! :tu:
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Found it on Sakwiki. I want the Spirit X…
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lol I got mine from second hand the 'Netherlands' Serena :D (or should I say "pre-owned'' or "loved by another member of MTO before me !")
trust me they are great tools, the price is way to much IMO but comparable to LM etc
go on you know you want to ;)
I never should've sold that one :facepalm: :whistle:
Anyway, I got another one, with the serrated blade, and after missing it for too long, I love it even more! :tu:
you did a good thing Tom :tu:
and Serena on Amazon UK I see one (serrated blade) for £60 (74 euros ? :think:)
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Found it on Sakwiki. I want the Spirit X…
By far my favourite Vic. plier based Multi !
Use in good health.
Chris
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they sadly aren't as good on a spirit as the standard Victorinox scissors (as seen in the swisstool/SAKs) due to their limited opening.
verdict on butterknife blade IMO is very nice and it wouldn't put me off the tool.
I have a Spirit X. I actually don't mind the scissors, they don't open much but feel stronger and sturdier than the Swisschamp ones.
Regarding the butterblade, I would actually prefer it to the penknife, as i wouldn't lose functionality, but it would be legal to carry in Romania. Now I can only use it at home and in private warehouses.
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the 'serrated' blade on the spirit, while still a locking blade and in the eyes of UK law probably the same as the straight blade, does somehow look less threatening IMO. even though it is the shape of a 'razor' :think:
and Victorinox serrations are wickedly efficient and will cut rope or fingers with ease !
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I don't think the law applies to butterknives (blunt, rounded knives). I am quite sure I read it somewhere. It's about not being able to use a tool to stab people, not to be unable chop them up into small bits.
Don't take my word for it though...
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I'm not totally sure but even a locking SAW blade is dodgy ground here in loopy-land
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The SwissTool, once you remove that dorky label, is a stunning, timeless piece of the toolmaker's art. Everybody should own one. You'll hand it down to your kids. It should come in a wooden box, it really is that beautiful. Blades glide open and click beautifully. Then they glide closed and click beautifully. The 'engraving' is perfect. It's truly the Rolls-Royce of multitools.
The Spirit is just as beautiful in fit and finish, but I'm not crazy about the curvy handles. They are really effective, making the pliers comfortable to use, but they forgo the 'timeless' engineered vibe of the SwissTool in favour of a more modern, ergonomic look. And in my opinion, you get comfortable pliers at the cost of slightly reduced convenience for the other tools, when you consider that offerings from LM in the same size and weight bracket have OHO blades.
I used to work as a roadie, and a multitool is in and out of your hand all day long. Often it's cutting off tape and ties etc, and while I never had OHO blades back then I'd certainly prefer my LM Charge as a working tool today. However, trying to access the other tools in the Charge is always a bit of a pain, they get stiff, two tools come out together, you mash up your fingernail, you know the drill. The Leatherman seems to need constant use and a bit of periodic cleaning and oiling to keep it singing.
The Vic tools can sit in a garage for 10 years and each tool will still glide in and out like silk.
I suppose my summary would be that I prefer the Vic tools, I take them camping and other situations where I get real pleasure out of using them. Slicing an apple or a fine blue cheese with a Leatherman just seems wrong. But for day to day grind work, the convenience of modern OHO blades would probably win.
BTW I have the Spirit S. When camping I like a serrated blade for cutting food (tomatoes, steak etc) as well as hacking through the odd bit of nylon rope, and a separate flat blade for everything else. Never been that crazy about scissors.
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Folks here have covered it pretty well, but I'll emphasize two things:
1. Leatherman quality control is spotty. Leatherman has everything made overseas and all they have to do is assemble the pieces, and they have problems even doing that right! And even when they get it right, it pales in comparison to Victorinox.
2. Leathermans are very prone to rust due to their polish and quality of steel. Do a search and see the results. Here is one thread: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50694.msg853225.html#msg853225
Leathermans from the early 90s, and Leathermans made now, are two different creatures. I have an original Supertool that is still solid, rust free, and doing good service after 20 years of abuse. Too bad Leatherman doesn't make 'em that good anymore.
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Folks here have covered it pretty well, but I'll emphasize two things:
1. Leatherman quality control is spotty. Leatherman has everything made overseas and all they have to do is assemble the pieces, and they have problems even doing that right! And even when they get it right, it pales in comparison to Victorinox.
2. Leathermans are very prone to rust due to their polish and quality of steel. Do a search and see the results. Here is one thread: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50694.msg853225.html#msg853225
Leathermans from the early 90s, and Leathermans made now, are two different creatures. I have an original Supertool that is still solid, rust free, and doing good service after 20 years of abuse. Too bad Leatherman doesn't make 'em that good anymore.
As much as I love my Swisstool(s) and Spirit(s), I find this a bit harsh on Leatherman tools.
I agree that there's quite a bit of fit and finish difference when I compare my '94 Original Supertool with the current ST300, but in no way have I ever felt that the ST300 was not up to any of the jobs that I've thrown at it. And when I'm doing some work at home (renovating etc.) I always find myself grabbing for my trusty ST300, and when I go hiking/camping I always take my Swisstool/Spirit with me ...
I think it's the superior phillips screwdriver and the replaceable cutters that make me pick my ST300 for work that mostly involves these two tools, while it's the better rust resistance and all outside accessible tools that make me pick my Swisstool/Spirit for EDC or hiking/camping.
Just my humble opinion of course ;).
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Folks here have covered it pretty well, but I'll emphasize two things:
1. Leatherman quality control is spotty. Leatherman has everything made overseas and all they have to do is assemble the pieces, and they have problems even doing that right! And even when they get it right, it pales in comparison to Victorinox.
2. Leathermans are very prone to rust due to their polish and quality of steel. Do a search and see the results. Here is one thread: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50694.msg853225.html#msg853225
Leathermans from the early 90s, and Leathermans made now, are two different creatures. I have an original Supertool that is still solid, rust free, and doing good service after 20 years of abuse. Too bad Leatherman doesn't make 'em that good anymore.
That's just not true. Everything made overseas? No, just no. I've been to their factory, and took their tour. Most of their tools are made there, with few exceptions of parts.
"Quality of steel" is a ridiculous bit of misinformation, and they do not use lesser "quality" steel. They use steels that are not as stainless as what Vic uses, and finishes that aren't as polished. I haven't had rust issues with any of my Leatherman tools.
Yes, this is the Swiss forum, and I myself am a huge fan of SAKs. However it's very bothersome that someone has to come into a thread here and defend LM against misinformation.
Personally, I prefer LM multi-tools to the SwissTools. I've had a few, and am left with a couple Spirit RTs. Never use them. The plier head is really kind of a bummer. It's not that it has a little play, it's that every SwissTool I've had (2 SwissTools, 4 Spirits) have had floppy pliers. The wire cutters are just awful. They barely work. The scissors on the Spirit X are better for thinner wire.
The knife blade on the Spirits are disappointing as well. I know it's a compact tool, but for its actual size, it's lame having a blade that I get in a 91mm SAK. The LM blades are larger, more robust, and in every case, arrive sharper out of the box than the SwissTools. 420HC is a very good steel, and the 154CM of the Charge AL is a great steel for what one would do with it.
The Philips driver on the SwissTools is good, and I like it because it's essentially the same as what's on a SAK. However my Syph custom SAK gets more screwdriver use because the way the handles of the SwissTools flare out cause a really awkward driving experience. I don't get that with a Charge or Wave, or even the Rebar. The Rebar's (and the ST's) Philips driver is superior I think.
LM, in my opinion, makes a better plier-based multi-tool. It's built more robustly, has better implements, and the warranty they provide is far and away superior to the service I've gotten from Vic. I sent in two Spirits for floppy pliers, and both times got back the exact same tool with no fix at all and no note explaining anything. Each time, I waiting two months. That's unacceptable to me personally (your own tolerances will certainly vary), and I've become accustomed to the quick, no-questions-asked service that I have always received from LM.
Very obviously, I'm in the minority here. However that's what I feel, and what I've encountered. It's not right to lie about a company that makes great products and snub them for credit that they indeed deserve.
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Damn, this makes me wanna buy a Spirit even more!!! But which one, with the knife or with scissors?
That is a question that has been haunting MTOers for a long time now!! :D Of course, the answer is both! :rofl:
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Folks here have covered it pretty well, but I'll emphasize two things:
1. Leatherman quality control is spotty. Leatherman has everything made overseas and all they have to do is assemble the pieces, and they have problems even doing that right! And even when they get it right, it pales in comparison to Victorinox.
2. Leathermans are very prone to rust due to their polish and quality of steel. Do a search and see the results. Here is one thread: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50694.msg853225.html#msg853225
Leathermans from the early 90s, and Leathermans made now, are two different creatures. I have an original Supertool that is still solid, rust free, and doing good service after 20 years of abuse. Too bad Leatherman doesn't make 'em that good anymore.
That's just not true. Everything made overseas? No, just no. I've been to their factory, and took their tour. Most of their tools are made there, with few exceptions of parts.
"Quality of steel" is a ridiculous bit of misinformation, and they do not use lesser "quality" steel. They use steels that are not as stainless as what Vic uses, and finishes that aren't as polished. I haven't had rust issues with any of my Leatherman tools.
Yes, this is the Swiss forum, and I myself am a huge fan of SAKs. However it's very bothersome that someone has to come into a thread here and defend LM against misinformation.
Personally, I prefer LM multi-tools to the SwissTools. I've had a few, and am left with a couple Spirit RTs. Never use them. The plier head is really kind of a bummer. It's not that it has a little play, it's that every SwissTool I've had (2 SwissTools, 4 Spirits) have had floppy pliers. The wire cutters are just awful. They barely work. The scissors on the Spirit X are better for thinner wire.
The knife blade on the Spirits are disappointing as well. I know it's a compact tool, but for its actual size, it's lame having a blade that I get in a 91mm SAK. The LM blades are larger, more robust, and in every case, arrive sharper out of the box than the SwissTools. 420HC is a very good steel, and the 154CM of the Charge AL is a great steel for what one would do with it.
The Philips driver on the SwissTools is good, and I like it because it's essentially the same as what's on a SAK. However my Syph custom SAK gets more screwdriver use because the way the handles of the SwissTools flare out cause a really awkward driving experience. I don't get that with a Charge or Wave, or even the Rebar. The Rebar's (and the ST's) Philips driver is superior I think.
LM, in my opinion, makes a better plier-based multi-tool. It's built more robustly, has better implements, and the warranty they provide is far and away superior to the service I've gotten from Vic. I sent in two Spirits for floppy pliers, and both times got back the exact same tool with no fix at all and no note explaining anything. Each time, I waiting two months. That's unacceptable to me personally (your own tolerances will certainly vary), and I've become accustomed to the quick, no-questions-asked service that I have always received from LM.
Very obviously, I'm in the minority here. However that's what I feel, and what I've encountered. It's not right to lie about a company that makes great products and snub them for credit that they indeed deserve.
I agree with all of this. :salute:
I only carry LM and Vic. I have SAKs and Vic plier tools. I have had lots of LMs.
LM tools and Vic plier tools both have positives and negatives. My LMs are not rusty, I use them, but I also care for them. My Spirit does have some rust.
My Spirit Phillips got marred up with very light use. That steel is softer in my opinion than LM.
I have a Rebar with a floppy side. All the tools are loose.
The LM vs. Vic thing is ridiculous fanboy crap. Period. It is like arguing whether whiskey is better than gin. It depends on taste. And be glad to be so lucky as to have access to both.
I love both. I am very happy with my LMs and my Vics, regardless of issues. When I leave the house, I have one of each on me. Usually a Rebar and a Compact. Or my custom Syph alox and a PST. Maybe my ST300 and a Swiss Champ if I really wanna be hardcore. Sometimes just my Spirit. Sometimes just my Flair.
So...
Meh.
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if only i had a bigger waist i could have a bigger belt and fit more pouches............ :whistle:
"fetch me a doughnut !!!"
:facepalm:
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A belt full of Skinths.
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An interesting note regarding Leatherman / SwissTool:
"The Victorinox SwissTool (with fold-out pliers and an assortment of blades, openers, and drivers thicker and stronger than on their pocketknives) was developed with the assistance of Tim Leatherman (who designed his much-copied folding-pliers tool after his rented FIAT “rucksack” broke down in Europe with no tools in the boot)."
The Swiss Army Knife Owners' Manual
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An interesting note regarding Leatherman / SwissTool:
"The Victorinox SwissTool (with fold-out pliers and an assortment of blades, openers, and drivers thicker and stronger than on their pocketknives) was developed with the assistance of Tim Leatherman (who designed his much-copied folding-pliers tool after his rented FIAT “rucksack” broke down in Europe with no tools in the boot)."
The Swiss Army Knife Owners' Manual
:tu: Thanks for that. Serena you will be quite happy with the Spirit X and while I also initially complained about the scissors, bottom line is they work. I used my Swisstool just yesterday and its such a joy to have in hand. I bought my roommate a Spirit with butter blade and thats the tool she prefers to carry as a Scout Leader. The butter blade is wicked sharp and quite useful as she pairs her Spirit with a Wenger soft touch.
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That's just not true. Everything made overseas? No, just no. I've been to their factory, and took their tour. Most of their tools are made there, with few exceptions of parts.
"Quality of steel" is a ridiculous bit of misinformation, and they do not use lesser "quality" steel. They use steels that are not as stainless as what Vic uses, and finishes that aren't as polished. I haven't had rust issues with any of my Leatherman tools.
Yes, this is the Swiss forum, and I myself am a huge fan of SAKs. However it's very bothersome that someone has to come into a thread here and defend LM against misinformation.
Personally, I prefer LM multi-tools to the SwissTools. I've had a few, and am left with a couple Spirit RTs. Never use them. The plier head is really kind of a bummer. It's not that it has a little play, it's that every SwissTool I've had (2 SwissTools, 4 Spirits) have had floppy pliers. The wire cutters are just awful. They barely work. The scissors on the Spirit X are better for thinner wire.
The knife blade on the Spirits are disappointing as well. I know it's a compact tool, but for its actual size, it's lame having a blade that I get in a 91mm SAK. The LM blades are larger, more robust, and in every case, arrive sharper out of the box than the SwissTools. 420HC is a very good steel, and the 154CM of the Charge AL is a great steel for what one would do with it.
The Philips driver on the SwissTools is good, and I like it because it's essentially the same as what's on a SAK. However my Syph custom SAK gets more screwdriver use because the way the handles of the SwissTools flare out cause a really awkward driving experience. I don't get that with a Charge or Wave, or even the Rebar. The Rebar's (and the ST's) Philips driver is superior I think.
LM, in my opinion, makes a better plier-based multi-tool. It's built more robustly, has better implements, and the warranty they provide is far and away superior to the service I've gotten from Vic. I sent in two Spirits for floppy pliers, and both times got back the exact same tool with no fix at all and no note explaining anything. Each time, I waiting two months. That's unacceptable to me personally (your own tolerances will certainly vary), and I've become accustomed to the quick, no-questions-asked service that I have always received from LM.
Very obviously, I'm in the minority here. However that's what I feel, and what I've encountered. It's not right to lie about a company that makes great products and snub them for credit that they indeed deserve.
I don't mind the knife blade on the Spirit. But then again, the 91mm sized blade is the most blade I've ever needed. If i need more, then I'll get out the mora. Nor have I had any problems with any of the other tools on the Swisstools.
So LM makes most of their parts and assemble the tools in the US? I stand corrected, and gladly so. :) That's good to hear, but why is their QC so spotty? Yes, that's a relative statement, but there's enough anecdotal evidence to give one pause.
I'll stand corrected on the use of the word "quality". It's erroneous to think that rust resistance is a measure of quality in steel. Leatherman uses good, but less rust-resistant steel. But they do seem to rust more readily than what is considered acceptable. Threads abound with "rusty Leatherman" stories, and again it gives one pause.
For me, its not about any sort of fanboy "Vic vs LM" thing. Ya see, I want to like the new Leathermans. I've come *this* close to buying a Rebar because it has a great tool package and it's under 7 ounces, but the QC and rust issues, though anecdotal, give me pause. I think the best pairing in the world could be a good SAK and a pliers-based LM. I've used and abused an old Leatherman Supertool for 20 years and I really wish they were still made as good as that.