Multitool.org Forum
Tool Talk => Swiss Army Knights Forum => Topic started by: Dunc on October 09, 2007, 07:57:38 PM
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Many of us on here have wondered about why the pliers on the Swisstool have changed , for instance in this picture by Jsews ( Bob )
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/pliers.jpg)
Well all this talk about the pliers and no real answer prompted me into emailing Mr Robert Elsener from Victorinox . I have asked him questions in the past and he has always been very helpfull and quick to reply . Well this time is no exception with a full explanation .....
Dear Mr Moore
Thank you for your mail dated 07th October 2007 and being interested in our products. We are pleased to answer your question.
All adjustments (fixing) made on our «SwissTool» and «SwissTool Spirit» are recorded and valuated by our customer service. By means of this analysis we are able to optimize the quality and functionality. Your question about the pliers' construction details has been discussed on an Internet forum some month ago. A user mentioned a theory what exactly nailed our intention.
If you twist a pair of pliers in either direction, the maximum torque until breakage is different. Most pliers are less strong when you twist something counter-clockwise, as if you were trying to loosen a bolt or remove a screw. Counter-clockwise tends to spread the pliers tip apart, whereas clockwise twisting will force the pliers half against one another and be stronger. That's the reason why we reversed the pivot on our SwissTool and SwissTool Spirit new pliers head design.
If you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact us.
Yours sincerely
VICTORINOX
Quality manager
Executive Master of Business Excellence
Robert Elsener
But the best bit is this picture he sent . Feast your eyes on this
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/SwissTool20Entwicklung20Zange.jpg)
It really makes sense doesnt it , you are far more likely to crank down hard on a frozen nut or bolt to get it undone but mostly when doing a nut up you stop when its tight and dont keep applying pressure .
You may need to scrole to the right on the picture to see the 2005 model as its really wide
Dunc
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Most excellent work dunc! That means mine is a 1998 model, very nice to know. The 2005 model looks much chunkier than the original....and thats saying something!
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... The 2005 model looks much chunkier than the original...
Another great side-effect of Lifetime Warranty. Vic has every incentive to make sure things do not break easily! ;D
Great job on the enquiry, and the picture is great, probably should be uploaded to SAKWiki under Pliers section...
Alexei
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Great job mate, looks as though I've got a 05 :)
And that a bloody quick reply from Victorinox too :o
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Mine would appear to be a 2005 model also .You can't Victorinox for customer service
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Cool pic Dunc! And very nice that Vic would humor us MT-nuts :D The new design makes sense to me for the reasons you said. A side question... Anyone else think the pliar design looks less and less LM-ish as the years go by?
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Anyone else think the pliar design looks less and less LM-ish as the years go by?
Yes very much so , I guess over the last few years Vic has been working out ways of improving the design and although the original folding plier design is credited to Leatherman ( although some may dissagree with this ) vic has been doing its own thing .
Notice how with the exception of the spirit how Victorinox keep improving the existing design without the need to keep bringing out new models each year like some companys which 90% of all do the same thing but just dressed in new clothes .
Dunc
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Evolution not revolution, and long my it continue :)
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Now that I think about it, LM's and Vic's pliars made at least similar change since 97. They both widened the pivot area, although they look more different now since LM's is more oval while Vic's is more stocky and squared-off. Must be a good idea if both companies are doing it :)
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Now that I think about it, LM's and Vic's pliars made at least similar change since 97. They both widened the pivot area, although they look more different now since LM's is more oval while Vic's is more stocky and squared-off. Must be a good idea if both companies are doing it :)
Although LMs still hinge the other way to the newer Vics .
dunc
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Now that I think about it, LM's and Vic's pliars made at least similar change since 97. They both widened the pivot area, although they look more different now since LM's is more oval while Vic's is more stocky and squared-off. Must be a good idea if both companies are doing it :)
Certainly make it a lot harder to break either of them :), should give there warranty department's less sleepless nights too ;D
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The new design makes sense to me for the reasons you said.
Sorry to quote myself :D but the more I think about this the more confused I'm getting.
If you twist a pair of pliers in either direction, the maximum torque until breakage is different. Most pliers are less strong when you twist something counter-clockwise, as if you were trying to loosen a bolt or remove a screw. Counter-clockwise tends to spread the pliers tip apart, whereas clockwise twisting will force the pliers half against one another and be stronger.
This still makes sense to me in an intuitive way, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around the physics of this. Can anyone help me out? ???
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Really interesting stuff Dunc. I love "evolution" pics. Really gives you a chance to see how things are improved over time.
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I did a crude drawing of how the forces apply to the plier jaws. You can see that when the "top" jaw is on the "left" the forces squeeze the jaw arms together on the counter-clockwise motion. Of course, the preferred approach is to use the pliers as a wrench, in which case the arrangement of the jaws does not matter...
Alexei
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Thanks for posting this Dunc, and thank you Victorinox for supplying the information!! :)
Dear Mr Moore
Thank you for your mail dated 07th October 2007 and being interested in our products. We are pleased to answer your question.
All adjustments (fixing) made on our «SwissTool» and «SwissTool Spirit» are recorded and valuated by our customer service. By means of this analysis we are able to optimize the quality and functionality. Your question about the pliers' construction details has been discussed on an Internet forum some month ago. A user mentioned a theory what exactly nailed our intention.
If you twist a pair of pliers in either direction, the maximum torque until breakage is different. Most pliers are less strong when you twist something counter-clockwise, as if you were trying to loosen a bolt or remove a screw. Counter-clockwise tends to spread the pliers tip apart, whereas clockwise twisting will force the pliers half against one another and be stronger. That's the reason why we reversed the pivot on our SwissTool and SwissTool Spirit new pliers head design.
If you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact us.
Yours sincerely
VICTORINOX
Quality manager
Executive Master of Business Excellence
Robert Elsener
Hey, I just realized that the internet forum Mr. Elsener is referring to is us! Link to thread from January: http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,649.0.html
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...so we are being watched... 8)
Great thread BTW...I don't even own a SwissTool and I find this interesting ;D
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Great thread BTW...I don't even own a SwissTool and I find this interesting ;D
:o :o :pok: :pok: :pok: you know you want one ;D
Dunc
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I've had a Spirit for a few days (haven't used it yet though), and it's niiiice :multi:
There's a few other items I want before I look into getting a full size SwissTool..
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Great post. Thanks for the info. I wonder why other tool manufacturers haven't gone that route?
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I did a crude drawing of how the forces apply to the plier jaws. You can see that when the "top" jaw is on the "left" the forces squeeze the jaw arms together on the counter-clockwise motion. Of course, the preferred approach is to use the pliers as a wrench, in which case the arrangement of the jaws does not matter...
Alexei
Thank's for the diagram, that clears things up nicely :cheers:
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...so we are being watched...
I told you guys that manufacturers had their eyes on us... maybe now you'll listen! :P
Def
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I did a crude drawing of how the forces apply to the plier jaws. You can see that when the "top" jaw is on the "left" the forces squeeze the jaw arms together on the counter-clockwise motion. Of course, the preferred approach is to use the pliers as a wrench, in which case the arrangement of the jaws does not matter...
Alexei
Thanks for the picture. I was picturing the pliars parallel to the bolt head, not perpendicular. Makes more sense now :)
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Great post dunc. Very interesting to see the pictures of all the different plier heads.
Sounds like Victorinox are damn good when it comes to customer services. I've never had to use them as I haven't had one break but it gives you a lot of confidence to know what they're like :)
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I did a crude drawing of how the forces apply to the plier jaws. You can see that when the "top" jaw is on the "left" the forces squeeze the jaw arms together on the counter-clockwise motion. Of course, the preferred approach is to use the pliers as a wrench, in which case the arrangement of the jaws does not matter...
Alexei
Great sketch ufox9al, that really demonstrates the theory well!
BTW, I'd like to add some plier-head details to the SwissTool page at both SAKWiki and the Multitool Encyclopedia. If you don't mind, I'd like to use your sketch at both sites.
Bob
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Bob, of course, please feel free to upload the sketch to both sites. If you would like to make any changes, I will gladly forward you the Visio file, which is what I used to slap it together.
Alexei
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OK ....so now I need to buy all the others....Thanks guys :twak:
Pictures tell a better History :multi:
Very Nice ! How the 2010 will look like ? :grin:
M.TEX
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Very Nice ! How the 2010 will look like ? :grin:
M.TEX
Hehe.... ;)
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WOW :o They'll have to start a service center for all the broken belts they cause! ;D
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2010 I think we will all be talking about the Swisstool spirit mustang ;)
Dunc
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Just added this info to the Encyclopedia. Scroll down to the bottom of the SwissTool page HERE (https://wiki.multitool.org/tiki-index.php?page=SwissTool) and click on Dunc's plier head picture.
Bob
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Updated the SwissTool page on SAKWiki in the same fashion HERE (http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=SwissTool) for anyone interested.
(again, scroll down to the bottom and click on the plier head picture)
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Informative post and great pics. Mine is a '98.
Chap
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I've got a 1999 and a 2002.
That 2005 plier looks massive doesn't it? Whose got one?
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Well looks like I have the 1998 thanks to Ebay and I also have the 2002 thanks to the folks here
Im working on getting the 1997 ( logo in the center )
wish me luck !
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looks like I need to work harder to get the 1997 model....there are some guys bidding like crazy on this one....
But my 1998 it's safe...should be here anytime this week.
What is the diference from 2002 and 2005 ? I can't see much.....
I might have one of the two above and I can't tell.....
Maybe I need to see the eye Doctor....can someone tell me , please???
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looks like I need to work harder to get the 1997 model....there are some guys bidding like crazy on this one....
But my 1998 it's safe...should be here anytime this week.
What is the diference from 2002 and 2005 ? I can't see much.....
I might have one of the two above and I can't tell.....
Maybe I need to see the eye Doctor....can someone tell me , please???
The 2005 looks chunkier around it's base.
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What is the diference from 2002 and 2005 ? I can't see much.....
I might have one of the two above and I can't tell.....
Maybe I need to see the eye Doctor....can someone tell me , please???
On the 2005 the corner of the "back" jaw (bottom left) is visible, when you look from the top.
Alexei
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Picture re-post:
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/SwissTool20Entwicklung20Zange.jpg)
I agree, the 2005 looks thicker across the base of the plier head.
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Very informative, ty for sharing. I like that they are watching and listening!
(shakes Vic ghost tree) and since their around, how about letting us switch tools easier boss people! we'll just buy more :D
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Do all of the current models of the Swisstool have the new head?...like the X and the RS...
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I would imagine so. The refinements in the plier heads would improve all of the models and I can't see Victorinox manufacturing numerous different, similar type heads.
Def
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That's what I thought, but figured I'd ask anyways :D
I'm currently emailing Tim back and forth trying to figure out which models he has in stock...
While i'm on the subject, does the bit kit automatically come with a sheath that can hold it along with a Swisstool? Or do you have to buy them seperately...the Swisstool, the bit kit and wrench, then the sheath to hold them both?
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I believe the kit, wrench and sheath are available separately. You can also get the SwissTool with or without the extra stuff.
Def
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If you order the SwissTool "PLUS" model then you get the whole kit, along with the larger sheath to hold everything.
A question though: how does one specify whether he wants the SwissTool + wrench kit, or the SwissTool + ratchet kit? ???
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One simply says "Oh Tim, I need the one with the ratchet" if one wants the one with the ratchet. If one wants the one with the wrench, one merely needs to say "Oh Tim, can I get the one with the wrench?"
Def
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One simply says "Oh Tim, I need the one with the ratchet" if one wants the one with the ratchet. If one wants the one with the wrench, one merely needs to say "Oh Tim, can I get the one with the wrench?"
Def
Thanks, that's what I figured :)
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Glad I could help! :P
Def
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Before you know it youll have four of them .
Dunc
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Only four?
It seems if one wanted to have a complete SwissTool collection there would be significantly more than four.
SwissTool
SwissTool RS
SwissTool X
BO SwissTool
SwissTool CS Plus
That would be five, just getting the basics covered, then to include the five head changes listed above, that would make a minimum of 25 different SwissTool, and that's just assuming variants of the full sized SwissTool, and still not counting specials like the Elsener signature SwissTool.
And, if you wanted to branch out into sheaths, then you'd be really screwed!
Def
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Only four?
It seems if one wanted to have a complete SwissTool collection there would be significantly more than four.
SwissTool
SwissTool RS
SwissTool X
BO SwissTool
SwissTool CS Plus
That would be five, just getting the basics covered, then to include the five head changes listed above, that would make a minimum of 25 different SwissTool, and that's just assuming variants of the full sized SwissTool, and still not counting specials like the Elsener signature SwissTool.
And, if you wanted to branch out into sheaths, then you'd be really screwed!
Def
Then again it will be back to three soon ;)
Dunc
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One simply says "Oh Tim, I need the one with the ratchet" if one wants the one with the ratchet. If one wants the one with the wrench, one merely needs to say "Oh Tim, can I get the one with the wrench?"
Def
Looks like Tim is all out of Swisstools :-X
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Send him an email- he doesn't always have time to keep his shop updated.
Def
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Send him an email- he doesn't always have time to keep his shop updated.
Def
I did,...I think he said he's placing another order at the beginning of the year.
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I think Tim is financially overextended with all those orders he placed with Amazon! It's a good news for all the folks on the other side of the pond, since Amazon does not ship overseas...
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at first, when I see BO x-Tool (Swiss, and others) I think, is that a tool someone doesn't like/care for?
then I figure it out but it always takes me a few seconds :think:
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Great info there! Looks like I have a '98 SwissTool X... Nice to know. =)
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I noticed SOG tools have this same type of plier head. Which came first with this idea? Victorinox or SOG?
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I noticed SOG tools have this same type of plier head. Which came first with this idea? Victorinox or SOG?
Good grief, I never realized that! :P
According to the Multitool Timeline (https://wiki.multitool.org/tiki-index.php?page=Multitool+Timeline), the SwissTool came out in 1997, while the SOG ParaTool was introduced five years ealier in 1992. Looks like first on the scene with opposite hand plier jaws would therefore be SOG.
(http://www.djknives.com/paratool__s-31.JPG)
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I noticed SOG tools have this same type of plier head. Which came first with this idea? Victorinox or SOG?
Well spotted ;)
Dunc
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Thanks :D
To me, the plier head used is either going to be weak when loosening or weak when tightening. How many people have actually had their tools break because of the old design pliers?
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Thanks :D
To me, the plier head used is either going to be weak when loosening or weak when tightening. How many people have actually had their tools break because of the old design pliers?
I've never had a break, but I've seen at least two old Leatherman PST's with plier pivots that were sprung. The tips of the needlenose jaws no longer lined up as a result. It seems likely that this was caused by trying to loosen a stuck bolt with the pliers.
(But you are absolutely correct, if the jaws were opposite handed, the same thing could have happened while tightening a bolt. :-\
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Thanks :D
To me, the plier head used is either going to be weak when loosening or weak when tightening. How many people have actually had their tools break because of the old design pliers?
while I've heard about quite a few other brand tools plier heads breaking the only Swisstool pliers I have heard about was a guy on Bladeforums who had a relation who used a Swisstool to hold things while welding and while there were no photos to confirm the story I can easily believe it due to the heat involved with welding . The temper of the steel must have been changed and I think it wouldnt have made any difference what tool the guy had used the result would have been the same .Apart from that I have never known anyone to break the pliers on a Swisstool . Come to think of it I dont know anyone to have broken any tools on a swisstool , apart from me :D when I bent the screwdriver/caplifter using it as a prybar :D Yes I know theres a dedicated prybar on the tool but I didnt use it at the time ::) Still i bent it back straight and its just as normal as ever :D
Dunc
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That doesn't surprise me. I would be more inclined to think that the weakest point on these tools would be where the plier heads are attached to the handles, and even then they'd be pretty tough.
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Just took a couple of pics that I think you may find interesting
The oldest Swisstool is in the left on both pictures . In the first photo both pliers are FULLY open and the second pic FULLY closed . Seems to me the older plier head out performs the newer one in terms of opening and comfort when gripping something because the handles are closer together
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/Plier4.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/Handle.jpg)
Dunc
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Interesting! I wonder if this is a result of thickening of the plier jaws at the base of the new model?
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Is it just my eyes or does the new head's pivot pin look smaller in diameter?
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I really appreciate this thread. The photo of all the Swisstool versions and the detail discussed here is helpful.
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Is it just my eyes or does the new head's pivot pin look smaller in diameter?
The pivot pin on the newer heads look smaller indeed... :o
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I have never known anyone to break the pliers on a Swisstool .
here's proof we live in a fallen world.....
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,4509.0.html
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The posting with the picture has expired.
We do have a picture of the owner:
(http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/buildings/new-england/empire-state/images/king_kong_movie_roar.jpg)
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:D :D :D
I think it would take king kong to break a Swisstool :o :o
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I agree, personally I suspect that Leatherman photo shopped the broken SwissTool in a futile effort to establish thier product superiority. I will say this I do miss the Longer Reach on the Leatherman sometimes.
Dtrain
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I think it's cool that apparently a member of the founder's family is answering emails.
Chad
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Welcome aboard ChadHahn !
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee21/edap617/GIF%20Files/thwearesogladyoujoinedus.gif)
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I think it's cool that apparently a member of the founder's family is answering emails.
Chad
Welcome buddy :D Where you from ?
Dunc
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I think it's cool that apparently a member of the founder's family is answering emails.
Chad
Welcome aboard matey :)
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Thanks for the welcome. I'm from Arizona.
I used what I found out in this post was a '95 Swisstool as my Multitool of choice on a cross-country motorcycle trip (at least from AZ to NE and back again) a few years ago. I never had to use the tool, probably because the bike was intimidated by the presence of the Swisstool. :sak:
Chad
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I never had to use the tool, probably because the bike was intimidated by the presence of the Swisstool. :sak:
Chad
:D :D :D
So what bike did you ride mate ???, there's a few active and ex bikers over here :)
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An 82 Honda CB900C. Shaft driven with overdrive transmission and air suspension. Because of the sidebags it really started to shake around 100 MPH in western Kansas.
Three days from Tucson to Lincoln, NE. Boy was my butt sore!
I haven't driven it since that trip because I had a child and my wife doesn't think being a dad and having a motorcycle mix. Especially in a state and town with lots of half-blind and deaf snowbirds. :o
Chad
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An 82 Honda CB900C. Shaft driven with overdrive transmission and air suspension. Because of the sidebags it really started to shake around 100 MPH in western Kansas.
Three days from Tucson to Lincoln, NE. Boy was my butt sore!
I haven't driven it since that trip because I had a child and my wife doesn't think being a dad and having a motorcycle mix. Especially in a state and town with lots of half-blind and deaf snowbirds. :o
Chad
Nice old school ride mate :), perfect for putting the miles on :)
Yeah I've a similar story, I rode everyday for 11 years, but it's just too dangerous, especially if you've got kiddies :-\
So I've given it up too.
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So why is it inherent in the Swisstool design that the plier head needs to be a snubnose? They did a good job of giving the Spirit a more needlenose design. Does one of the Swisstool implements get in the way of making the nose more pointed? Swisstool must surely be aware of this issue by now.
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I like the Swisstools pliers just the way they are . Very strong at the tip . I've nothing against needle nose and I have a few multitools with them but the Swisstools pliers allow you to twist something gripped in the tip very hard where this would have a true needle nose crossing its jaws and breaking .Once again this boils down to the ' End of the World ' must have multitool .The Swisstools pliers may look stubby but they are the strongest I've come across .
Dunc
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So they're purposely made stubby for maximum grip and reliability. That's consistent with making a big tool for big jobs. But is there another implement in the way of making it a needlenose?
Also, has anyone tried to polish the plier head, especially the sides?
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No I've never tried to polish the plier head . Never thought about it to be honest , I either have drawer queens like my Elsener Signature model or a user that gets knocked about and couldnt see the point of polishing that .
Dunc
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Nope, never polished mine either, what benifit would there be for polishing the pliers mate :think:
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Nope, never polished mine either, what benifit would there be for polishing the pliers mate :think:
Less drag? :D
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Nope, never polished mine either, what benifit would there be for polishing the pliers mate :think:
Less drag? :D
More chances to see my beautiful reflection maybe :think: :D
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Nope, never polished mine either, what benifit would there be for polishing the pliers mate :think:
Less drag? :D
More chances to see my beautiful reflection maybe :think: :D
Yeah I'd get a BO one if I were you buddy. ;) :D
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Nope, never polished mine either, what benifit would there be for polishing the pliers mate :think:
Less drag? :D
More chances to see my beautiful reflection maybe :think: :D
Yeah I'd get a BO one if I were you buddy. ;) :D
Sod :D :D
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Nope, never polished mine either, what benifit would there be for polishing the pliers mate :think:
Less drag? :D
More chances to see my beautiful reflection maybe :think: :D
Yeah I'd get a BO one if I were you buddy. ;) :D
Oooh, that was a good one! :D
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Nope, never polished mine either, what benifit would there be for polishing the pliers mate :think:
Less drag? :D
More chances to see my beautiful reflection maybe :think: :D
Yeah I'd get a BO one if I were you buddy. ;) :D
Oooh, that was a good one! :D
Thanks for the suport Bob :twak: :D
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In my Swisstool collection I have a 98 , 02 and 05 plier heads and thought you may like to see some comparison pics .
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Mon9013.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Mon9017.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Mon9016.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Mon9018.jpg)
The later the model, the further apart the handles are . I must say the 05 head really has alot of metal around it .
Dunc
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Great pics! :cheers:
Any chance of a pic showing how far the different heads open?
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Great pics! :cheers:
Any chance of a pic showing how far the different heads open?
I'll see if I can get one up tomorrow .I'll take one against the LM Core to as thats quite a slab of metal too .
Leave it with me .
Dunc
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Nice one mate :)
I know from my own 05 that they are one tough plier head :tu:
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All the 05 heads have the plierhead play, though.. :(
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All the 05 heads have the plierhead play, though.. :(
A tiny, itty bitty bit of flex in mine :)
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All the 05 heads have the plierhead play, though.. :(
I've experienced play in all the years . Its just luck of the draw if you get one with no play , and those that don't have any play soon will have if you use them . Never seems to get worse and mine all cut thin wire still .
Dunc
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Great pics! :cheers:
Any chance of a pic showing how far the different heads open?
I'll see if I can get one up tomorrow .I'll take one against the LM Core to as thats quite a slab of metal too .
Leave it with me .
Dunc
Oh, I was hoping to catch you while still had everything laid out. No need to trouble yourself. :)
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Here we go , oldest first
98
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Tue10000.jpg)
02
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Tue10003.jpg)
05
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Tue10005.jpg)
Spirit
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Tue10007.jpg)
LM Core
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Tue10006.jpg)
Other shots with the Core
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Tue10015.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Tue10012.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Tue10011.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Tue10010.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Tue10009.jpg)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Tue10008.jpg)
and Spirit with 98
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/album1/Tue10014.jpg)
Dunc
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Great comparison shot there Dunc :tu: thank you :cheers:
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Great comparison shot there Dunc :tu: thank you :cheers:
Thanks :tu: It does look like the 05 comes off the worst but look how much stronger the tips look compared to the Core , your not going to get those to overlap each other ;) Plus its very rare your even going to grip something that wide and still be able to get your hands around the handles .
Dunc
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Thanks for the great pics, Dunc! They are really interesting. :cheers:
I had no idea that the Spirit opened a 1/2" more than the newer SwissTools. Seems kind of odd when you think about it.
That Core sure is a beast! Yikes! :o
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Just incase anyone notices ::) In the third photo down at the top of this page the middle swisstool has a small amount of rust around the corkscrew/lanyard hole . This is not down to normal everyday wear and tear but because it has spent several months on a lifeboat/rescue boat and has been in a salt water enviroment .
I so hope DaveK doesn't see this :-[
Dunc
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I saw it after you pointed it out, but that's considerably nothing for the amount of time and the environment it endured :cheers:
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I so hope DaveK doesn't see this :-[
Too late ;)
Great pics those Dunc, if I could be arsed to go and find my Swisstool I'd tell you what I have, but I can't :)
I always thought that there's a lot more useful surface area on the Core's pliers than the Swisstool, but those pics really highlight it. It's not just the pliers, but the cutters too.
If that's my old Core in the pics, you can see how useful those needle nosed pliers are to me, from all the scratches! I never noticed them before.
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Yes Dave thats your old Core :tu:
One advantage the Swisstool does have over the Core is the extra strength at the tip.
Dunc
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This is a great thread and thanks for all your work Dunc! It was nice to find out mine's a '98. Of all my MT's, the SwissTool gets the most use and is of the best quality. It's a tank! :)
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This is a great thread and thanks for all your work Dunc! It was nice to find out mine's a '98. Of all my MT's, the SwissTool gets the most use and is of the best quality. It's a tank! :)
I really glad you find it helpfull :tu:
Dunc
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Very Nice ! How the 2010 will look like ? :grin:
M.TEX
Hehe.... ;)
(http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2463.0;attach=5581;image)
Looking forward to the 2010 model SwissTool ;)
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wow...looks like you could torque a 16-penny nail!
it that what it was designed for? bending/twisting?
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wow...looks like you could torque a 16-penny nail!
it that what it was designed for? bending/twisting?
The design is for more strength around the pivot yes.
The 2010 is of course only a joke though. ;)
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Are there any 2005 BOs about? If not which year are they? Also, is there a new 2010 model for sure?
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Are there any 2005 BOs about? If not which year are they? Also, is there a new 2010 model for sure?
There are 2005 BO Swisstools. I think the one I am auctioning off is a 2005. Look here for a pic. http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,10307.0.html
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Are there any 2005 BOs about? If not which year are they? Also, is there a new 2010 model for sure?
the 2010 model's a spoof mate :)
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Are there any 2005 BOs about? If not which year are they? Also, is there a new 2010 model for sure?
the 2010 model's a spoof mate :)
Does anyone have an idea as to when they may be updating the Swisstool?
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It would appear that my new Swisstool has a 1998 plier head. Great.
It also has a really funny serrated blade instead of scissors. But it was NITB and (new in tatty box) and it has the Plus driver doodah thing, so that's cool.
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It would appear that my new Swisstool has a 1998 plier head. Great.
It also has a really funny serrated blade instead of scissors. But it was NITB and (new in tatty box) and it has the Plus driver doodah thing, so that's cool.
Did you want a 95 plier head ?
Dunc
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Errr, not especially. Why?
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I just prefer the 98 plier head , the handles are closer together making them more comfortable .
Dunc
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Ah I see. I'm with you now.
Nah, I'm touting this one around :D
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Ah I see. I'm with you now.
Nah, I'm touting this one around :D
I'm not sure I have anything you require :think:
Dunc
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I'm not even sure what I want, so what chance do you stand? :think:
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Graet thread this, thanks, Dunc :tu:
Just dated mine as a '99 :)
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Graet thread this, thanks, Dunc :tu:
Just dated mine as a '99 :)
+1 on what he said.. :tu:
Both mine are from ´98...
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Does anybody know if the pliers on the swisstool spirit have changed since they where introduced?
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AFIK , no changes in the Spirit's pliers , guess they got it right the first time . The Spirit is a truly remarkable tool !
The one plier head variant I am aware of is the blasting cap crimper version , made for the Swiss military , the overun has been sold on the civilian market , at premium prices .
Chris
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AFIK , no changes in the Spirit's pliers , guess they got it right the first time . The Spirit is a truly remarkable tool !
The one plier head variant I am aware of is the blasting cap crimper version , made for the Swiss military , the overun has been sold on the civilian market , at premium prices .
Chris
What he said. :salute:
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I've got two Swisstools with 98 plier heads and pre hard wire notch , the strange thing is the colour of the metel in the plier heads looks different :think: One has a slight gold tinge to it . Its quite noticable when the two are side by side .Although the photo isnt that good you can still see a difference . Any ideas , did Vic change metal or methods some how :think: ?apart from this both heads are identical
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/Photo-0106.jpg)
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I've got two Swisstools with 98 plier heads and pre hard wire notch , the strange thing is the colour of the metel in the plier heads looks different :think: One has a slight gold tinge to it . Its quite noticable when the two are side by side .Although the photo isnt that good you can still see a difference . Any ideas , did Vic change metal or methods some how :think: ?apart from this both heads are identical
You've got the elusive GOLDEN SWISSTOOL! You've earned a trip to the Victorinox factory! :ahhh
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Hope it's got nothing to do with the Yellow Snow Syndrome... :D
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Hi Dunc
I got a Spirit with that gold/bronze colour. The color is inside the plier jaws and on the attachement to the handles, alittle hard to explain. My computer will not permit me to send a picture. You are not alone wondering!
It looks to be a layer or a coating over the stainless, maybe for protection or maybe not :think:
NM
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Hi
The gold/bronze color can be Teflon coating for protection.
NM
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Hi
I just got a e-mail from Victorinox Kundenservice about the reason for the gold/bronze color on some plier heads.
It is from the hardening and annealing process, some batches have to be hardened and annealed at a different temperature. It does not affect the quality of the plier.
NM
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Hi
I just got a e-mail from Victorinox Kundenservice about the reason for the gold/bronze color on some plier heads.
It is from the hardening and annealing process, some batches have to be hardened and annealed at a different temperature. It does not affect the quality of the plier.
NM
thats interesting , thanks for sharing :tu:
Dunc
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Yes, thanks North Man :)
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...hmmm, seems I have a '98 ST.
ST RS left, Spirit right.
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_UIvftVa71aQ/Svj-IsMDzwI/AAAAAAAAKuA/CM8-ZfDSgc8/s800/IMG_1752.JPG)
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I was just wondering (sorry if this has been asked before)... We know why Vic changed their pliers head orientation to the "right jaw on top" configuration, and SOG has it like that since day one (it would by nice if someone form SOG could verify that they've chosen this orientation for a similar reason). But the other big players (cf. LM and Gerber) and mostly all single-use pliers use the "older" configuration. Why is that? I mean, if the new configuration actually adds to the tool's strength, why haven't traditional pliers manufacturers also moved to it over time?
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Anyone? :pok: :pok: :pok:
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I'm hoping somebody really smart will be along soon with an answer. :)
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I'm hoping somebody really smart will be along soon with an answer. :)
Me too .
Sorry buddy but I don't know :think: Have you thought about an email to Leatherman asking them ?
Dunc
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I haven't thought of contacting LM but this is a more generic question tbh. I mean, even standard pliers are made the LM and Gerber way. If it was indeed better the other way, wouldn't tool manufacturers have made the move first?
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I haven't thought of contacting LM but this is a more generic question tbh. I mean, even standard pliers are made the LM and Gerber way. If it was indeed better the other way, wouldn't tool manufacturers have made the move first?
Do do have a good point there
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no one found out the answer to this yet?
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No but i've only ever seen one broken Swisstool plier head on the internet :D
Dunc
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I'm guessing they just don't wanna pay out the money for a barely noticable increase in performance.
Would be most logical, assuming they know about the issue.
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I wonder if they are confident that their pliers can take it.
I don't mean that to sound provocative, but maybe Leatherman and Gerber pliers are tougher at the pivot than the Vics. If they thought there was merit in changing, then they've had several new plier heads to effect the design change, but they didn't.
It looks as though it doesn't concern them.
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maybe its patented? :S
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Hey, this could explain why the jaws on the Crunch line up so poorly! The jaws may be designed to be straighter while unscrewing a bolt! Yeah, that's it.
FYI, the jaws on the Crunch are oriented the same as the Swisstools. RH, LH, whichever one that is.
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im not sure what pliers head is on the one Neil is sending,i must admit that i find the LM needle pliers very handy for holding fiddly stuff and getting into small places, ive never broken and pliers heads so far as dont puch them too hard, but the swisstools pliers do look meaty :tu:
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well looks like mines a 1998 model :tu:
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well looks like mines a 1998 model :tu:
Not even run in then :)
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well looks like mines a 1998 model :tu:
Not even run in then :)
not yet chris ;)
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So, does the Spirit have the same awesome pliers as the OG SwissTool?
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No the Spirits are smaller and a little more needlenose .
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No the Spirits are smaller and a little more needlenose .
But do they hinge the same way? Do you know?
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No the Spirits are smaller and a little more needlenose .
But do they hinge the same way? Do you know?
No that depends , Early swisstool hinged the other way .So the Spirit hinges the same way as the last two tools in this pic ...
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/SwissTool20Entwicklung20Zange.jpg)
Check out the Spirit and Swisstool sticky threads at the top of the forum . They make great reading for anyone interested in Swisstools ;)
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well looks like mines a 1998 model :tu:
Not even run in then :)
and the odd thing chris is its a year older than the wave that started all this for me :D
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I think normal 'proper' or 'real' pliers have not changed the configuation to the way Vic does it because lets be honest here, your not ment to use pliers to undo nuts when there a proper spanners to do the job! I know i wouldn't as it damages and marks the nuts. It just happens to be that the coarse jaw could be used use to grip a nut in an emergency situation out in the field. You dont carry or use a pair of pliers to work on fasteners as an alternative to spanners or sockets. Plier jaws were never intended to undo/do up fasteners. So thats why i think proper plier manufacturers have not seen the need to go this way as they do not design their pliers to do that sort of job. Multi tools are a bit different because they are more intended as tool you carry that can do a lot of jobs that specific tools are designed for but they do not do everything as well as a specific tool for that job can do. And a multi tool is more aimed at being a tool that is mobile, meaning you carry it on yourself, in your car or on your bike when dont want to or cant carry a lot of tools but this one multi tool may just be able get you out of a tricky situation at some point and it just happens that the plier jaw 'could' be used to grip a nut in an emergency situation when you dont have the proper tool for the job and i think Victorinox just saw an area where the function of the pliers could be improved for this a little more and LM and Gerber probably think that the gain is too little to bother about it? No professional tradesman, especially a mechanic would be using a multi tool in the workshop and especially not for using on fasteners. There would be many complains from cutomers with butchered nuts on their vehicle or machinery. They all have much better tools do do specific jobs.
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Has this been posted yet? Hope i can put it here.
Victorinox SwissTool Spirit
The Victorinox Emblem (cross and shield) was removed from the pliers head in 2010. The product images on our website have not been updated yet.
I got a picture i PDF,its to large, basially it shows that until 2010 cross and shield emblem is on, then from 2010 an interim model without emblem on plier, finally also from 2010 a change on the emblem on handle. The logo is over Victorinox and not besides, hope this makes sence?
P.s Picture in PDF is protected also...
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OK I was instructed to do the washing up so I promptly got cracking mucking around with MTs , electronic scales & a new camera ::) ::) :D :D.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll287/multimat426/SwissTool%20Specials/IMG_0038.jpg)
I have 3 standard configuration SwissTools(but far from standard ;) :D).At top is a very first 1997 model , a Aussie Army issue BO with 2005 plier head & at bottom a Signature Swisstool with a 1998 plier head.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll287/multimat426/SwissTool%20Specials/IMG_0040-1.jpg)
97 left , 98 middle & 05 at right.
OK the electric scales , both the 97 & 98 Swisstools weighed in at a identical 279 grams or 9.841 ounces both do not have a hard wire cutting notch. I was interested to see how much difference the 2005's more chunky pliers would have to the Swisstools weight. The BO 2005 pliers Swisstool weighed in at 289 grams or 10.194 ounces. As far as I can tell the majority of that extra 10 grams weight has gone into the 05's pliers :think:
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll287/multimat426/SwissTool%20Specials/IMG_0049-1.jpg)
The 05's phillips head screw driver is slightly blunt when compared to the 97 & 98's. Photo does not show it very well :( :(
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll287/multimat426/SwissTool%20Specials/IMG_0041-1.jpg)
The 05's file is a LOT more course when compared to the 97 & 98's , more like a Spirit's which is on the left. I vaguely remember someone saying the BO SwissTool's got the courser file :think: :think: :think:.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll287/multimat426/SwissTool%20Specials/IMG_0046-1.jpg)
Awls look the same :think: :think: , not quite :D :D.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll287/multimat426/SwissTool%20Specials/IMG_0048-1.jpg)
Earlier SwissTool's have a groove in the other side :think: :think:. I wonder if it was a strength issue or a simplification in the manufacturing process that lead to the groove going :think: :think:.
OK that is what happens when I am meant to be tidying up ::) ::) :D :D.
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Comparing tools is always funner than cleaning up. :salute: :D An extra 10 grams just in the plier head :o The fathead model is a big chunk of metal certainly, but I had not guessed it made that much difference. (And don't forget, some amount of weight gain from '98 to '05 would be offset by the metal removed for the bigger corkscrew/accessory slots) :-\
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How is it I can take so much pleasure is cleaning up an old tool and then absolutely detest washing dishes? ::)
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Great pics Mat :tu: I prefer the 98 plier head and the early awl .Although I'm quite happy to carry a 05 model as EDC .
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Great post, so I guess my dates from 1998 then. I acquired it a couple of years ago as an airport confiscation.
(http://i993.photobucket.com/albums/af60/colinoutdoors/MTO039.jpg?t=1310748909)
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That's a '98 alright! :salute: Some folks like it the best because the jaws open wider than the later versions. :)
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Why are the 97 and 99 heads so hard to find?
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That's a '98 alright! :salute: Some folks like it the best because the jaws open wider than the later versions. :)
Well I was really surprised to learn how old my SwissTool is. Bought it a couple of years ago as an airport confiscation. Was like new when I got it. Victorinox quality has always amazed me. Interesting side note it has a Colas engraving on the handle, after some research I think they are an engineering company. What a cool present from your employers to receive.
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Why are the 97 and 99 heads so hard to find?
I'm not really sure Terry. :think: The pliers themselves from those years are fine....Must be they just didn't make many of them. :-\
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Never been a big fan of the SwissTool plier head. It's too stunted, for lack of a better word, for me that is. I like the plier head on the Spirit though. Just right, not too short and not overly needle nosed.
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I just got a swisstool rs for christmas and the plier head looks just like the 2005 one but there is no vic logo on the plier head at all. Also the victorinox logo on the handle is different than all the ones i've seen pictures of. It has the logo above the word "victorinox" instead of infront of it. I'll try and get some pics.
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I just got a swisstool rs for christmas and the plier head looks just like the 2005 one but there is no vic logo on the plier head at all. Also the victorinox logo on the handle is different than all the ones i've seen pictures of. It has the logo above the word "victorinox" instead of infront of it. I'll try and get some pics.
Sounds like they updated the SwissTool the same way they updated the Spirit. :think: Looking forward to seeing the pictures. :salute:
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Just some crappy cell phone pictures for now since my camera is toast. Some pictures of the tool and the sheath.
The picture of the plier head isn't great because of the angle and lighting but there is no logo on either side of the plier head.
(http://oi40.tinypic.com/ieo1hy.jpg)
(http://oi42.tinypic.com/wkfmv6.jpg)
(http://oi41.tinypic.com/27wvhio.jpg)
(http://oi39.tinypic.com/amz2nt.jpg)
(http://oi40.tinypic.com/j8lb7k.jpg)
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Just some crappy cell phone pictures for now since my camera is toast. Some pictures of the tool and the sheath.
The picture of the plier head isn't great because of the angle and lighting but there is no logo on either side of the plier head.
(http://oi42.tinypic.com/wkfmv6.jpg)
Yep, its definitely different than before. (2005 version shown below) I wonder when they changed it? :think:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/Bobbys/2005SwissToollogo.jpg)
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yeah I wonder when it got changed. Mine was bought a few weeks before christmas at an outdoor store in canada. I know they use to have the 05 model because I remember looking at the logo on the plier head. That would of been 5 or 6 months ago when I looked at that one, so sometime between then and now they've started selling this one.
Besides the markings, I can't see anything else thats different between mine and pictures of the 05 RS ones.
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Just some crappy cell phone pictures for now since my camera is toast. Some pictures of the tool and the sheath.
The picture of the plier head isn't great because of the angle and lighting but there is no logo on either side of the plier head.
(http://oi42.tinypic.com/wkfmv6.jpg)
Yep, its definitely different than before. (2005 version shown below) I wonder when they changed it? :think:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/Bobbys/2005SwissToollogo.jpg)
LOL did you just take that picture or have you had it for awhile? It's like identical to mine.
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I just took it :D
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I just got a swisstool rs for christmas and the plier head looks just like the 2005 one but there is no vic logo on the plier head at all. Also the victorinox logo on the handle is different than all the ones i've seen pictures of. It has the logo above the word "victorinox" instead of infront of it. I'll try and get some pics.
About the file - is it the newer aggressive one (similar to the Spirit) or the older non-aggressive one that most of us don't like too much?
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have been chasing this plier head with no shield for some time and no luck, but today I landed a swisstool with a sheepsfoot serrated blade. I have never seen that before. Anyone else see it?
so now I have swisstools with
serrated
sheepfoot serrated
rescue serrated
and butter serrated on the spirit.
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have been chasing this plier head with no shield for some time and no luck, but today I landed a swisstool with a sheepsfoot serrated blade. I have never seen that before. Anyone else see it?
so now I have swisstools with
serrated
sheepfoot serrated
rescue serrated
and butter serrated on the spirit.
You had to know someone was going to say this, right?
:worthless:
:D
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for you Gareth
Left to right
serrated sheepfoot
serrated rescue
standard serrated
serrated butter
(http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg113/terry6540/IMG_20121221_185118.jpg)
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That's the first time I've seen a Swisstool with a serrated sheepsfoot , I wonder if it has a new model number or if its just an update to the standard model.
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That's the first time I've seen a Swisstool with a serrated sheepsfoot , I wonder if it has a new model number or if its just an update to the standard model.
A bit like what Leatherman did with their serrated blades , starting with the ST200 :think: :think:. Too many broken blade tips maybe :think: :think:
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Cheers Scrappy. :cheers:
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At GPKnives is a photo of the latest Swisstool X with no stamp on the plier head, the shield above "Victorinox" on BOTH sides of the tool, and no red paint.
http://www.gpknives.com/victorinoxswisstoolx.html
Note the file teeth go right up to the tip - is this the newer coarser file?
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It appears there may be a possibility the Swisstool is going back to the slimmer plier head.
http://www.pensandleather...ctorinox-swisstool-x.aspx
Here is a link to a Swisstool X with:
1) New handles stamped with small shield ABOVE the word "Victorinox" rather than in front of the word "Victorinox".
2) Older slimmer profile plier head - slimmer with less metal around the center pivot. However, it does not have a shield stamped on it nor the word "Victorinox" stamped on it like previous older slimmer versions.
You will need to select the top right picture to see this (There are about 7 pictures of the Swisstool so pick the one on the top row , right end.).
I have not seen this combo before.
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Any idea why my Swiss Tool has no Victorinox logo on the pliers? The Vic logo is on the ruler side with 'Victorinox' but not logo on the pliers?
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The shield emblem is omitted on the latest plier heads - so you have the latest version - this is a good version because you have the more aggressive file.
You probably don't have the red paint on the handles either - another good thing IMHO since there is no paint to scratch.
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Are we certain there is a plier version with the shield missing entirely? ??? Because here is the latest SwissTool I've got, fresh from Amazon with the sheepsfoot-style serrated knife. (thanks again Terry!!) One side of the pliers has a shield cast into it, while the other side is completely blank.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/SheepsfootSwissToolb.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/jooliesews/SheepsfootSwissToola.jpg)
No red paint on either side of the tool of course.
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There has been some discussion on this forum that the recent swisstools have no shield on the plier. I own a tool that is a year old and sure enough, no shield on the plier. I just bought a new tool and it has the shield. So, I contacted victorinox and asked them about it. They replied that the Swisstool should have a shield on the plier.
So I wonder, is it possible some models don't have the shield because the plier was built from two halves without the shield when it should have been built with one half plier that has the shield?
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My Spirit has no shield on the plier head
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Here is a link to a new Swisstool with no emblem on the plier head but more importantly, a SKINNIER plier head with the weaker left-hand pivot pin design as shown by the jaw crease on the right when the tool is in vertical position with plier head UP.
Now will someone please explain why Victorinox is going backwards in their design?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Swiss-Army-SwissTool-X-Multitool-BOXED-53936-with-Nylon-Pouch-/350687879821?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a6a0628d
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The plier head is confusing. I understood the change in pivot based on forces and it made sense. Why would they revert that? Maybe they found a huge stockpile of the old kind they misplaced? lol
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I don't think they reverted back. That is pic from a retailer. I don't think there are any tools shipping like that.
I Bought multiple swisstools this year and none of them are reverted back to the old design
I have a couple spirits without the shield. Beats me what they are doing at vic with the pliers???
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That ebay dealer picture looks genuine because the handles definitely look like the latest version:
1) Smaller font "Victorinox" stamp
2) Shield emblem directly above the "Victorinox" rather than in front
3) No red paint.
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That ebay dealer picture looks genuine because the handles definitely look like the latest version:
1) Smaller font "Victorinox" stamp
2) Shield emblem directly above the "Victorinox" rather than in front
3) No red paint.
Carl, your right. It is not a fake. I am sure the picture is genuine as you point out. But it is not a picture of the current model. It is a stock picture that distributors and dealers can use. The actual item may vary from the stock picture.
Here are the reasons I know this.
1) I was a dealer selling victorinox tools many years ago through their largest distributor in the USA. That picture looks just like the stock pictures we used when I was a dealer.
2) I no longer sell or have access to victorinox multitools but I like them and that is why I have purchased 5 swisstools within the last year from retailers. They all have the wider plier.
3) I spoke with a dealer on eBay who I have used in the past. He says the current model from vic has the wider plier.
4) looking at the picture in your link, the seller has two pictures for the same listing. Note the handles are different in the two pictures so the pictures must be of two different tools. Same model perhaps, but different variations. My guess is both are stock pictures and neither are pictures taken by the retailer.
I am not certain what to think about the plier shield... I emailed victorinox and they told me the current model has the shield. I didnt ask about the spirit though.
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Scrappy - thank you for your input. I always appreciate info from a dealer or ex-dealer who has that perspective which most of us do not.
And you are right about the second picture with all the tools showing are of a different individual tool.
I agree with you that dealers do indeed use various images taken from the Victorinox website and other sources, not the actual picture of the actual sale item.
However, those "stock" images always show either:
1) The side that has the red painted handle or...
2) The other side that doesn't have red paint but does have "Victorinox" stamped with a large shield emblem IN FRONT of and in-line with "Victorinox". See link below:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VICTORINOX-SWISSTOOL-RS-SWISS-ARMY-KNIFE-MULTI-TOOL-W-NYLON-POUCH-53935-120-/271138356616?pt=Collectible_Knives&hash=item3f211afd88
There have been no exceptions to this as far as I know - at least until now.
Recently, however, we know Victorinox changed their handle markings by:
1) Deleting the red paint
2) Making both the "Victorinox" stamp (letter font) smaller and shield emblem smaller
3) Now the smaller shield is stamped ABOVE the smaller "Victorinox" rather than in front of "Victorinox" as before.
These new changes do indeed show up on the latest photo on ebay (see link below) and other sites - thus implying these photos are different from the previous photos and are of the newest version of the tool.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Swiss-Army-SwissTool-X-Multitool-BOXED-53936-with-Nylon-Pouch-/350687879821?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51a6a0628d
It seems implausible to assume the recent ebay picture (see link above) to be that of the older tool with the skinnier plier head - an older skinnier plier head (circa 1997-1999) matched up with the NEWEST stamped handle markings from 2013? This doesn't make sense to me - unless someone photoshopped an older skinnier plier head to a new set of handles. Not only that but, the older skinnier plier heads all had markings of some sort - either "Victorinox" or the shield emblem, both of which are missing in the recent ebay photo. See link below:
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=swisstool+plier+heads+the+truth&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&tbo=d&rlz=1T4GZAB_enUS476US476&biw=1523&bih=730&tbm=isch&tbnid=EqvH4Jde07qQrM:&imgrefurl=http://wiki.multitool.org/tiki-index.php%3Fpage%3DSwissTool%2BPlier%2BHeads&docid=FRugzOpYLkdwyM&imgurl=http://wiki.multitool.org/show_image.php%253Fid%253D524&w=799&h=242&ei=OpX7UIa4OMqDjALaxoCgBA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=686&vpy=156&dur=1654&hovh=123&hovw=408&tx=241&ty=100&sig=116262253658119525005&page=1&tbnh=86&tbnw=257&start=0&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:0,i:96
I also suspect most dealers may not be aware of the minute changes that come along occasionally - either because they are generally not made aware of simple minor cosmetic changes by the company or because they themselves (the dealers) still have older stock (i.e. larger plier head) without the changes and so have nothing newer to compare with.
I suspect the dealer you spoke with still has the previous version - with previous larger plier head and handles with newest markings. See link below:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victorinox-Swiss-Army-Knife-SWISSTOOL-CS-Plus-Multi-Tool-Tools-Leather-53946-/121020538081?pt=Collectible_Knives&hash=item1c2d62dce1
I have had the experience of being a customer who had to inform a dealer of certain details regarding a particular product which, although they were selling the product, were not aware of some detail - probably a nitpicky detail at that :)
If a skinnier plier head is indeed coming down the pipeline, they may not hit all dealers around the world for a year or more.
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I can't help much with the Swisstools as I havn't bought one in a while but here is a Vic photo of the three changes they done to the Spirit , old intermediate and new. The versions without the shield on the pliers and the Vic shield infront of the victorinox word on the handle ( like mine ) is the intermediate version. Maybe they are doing something similar with the Swisstool.
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/spirit-plier-heads_zps44484c8b.png)
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Thanks Dunc. That is interesting to see. My spirits look like 1 and 3.
I wouldn't be surprised if they are doing something similar with the Swisstool. I have one with no shield.
Carl, I will be suprised if they switch back to the old plier that is weaker, but time will tell. And as you mentioned earlier it does open wider, that could be their motive.
I am sure someone here will spot if it did happen and we will here about it sooner than later.
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It might be just a matter of using up some old stock/leftover parts. :think: We've seen that with Leatherman and Gerber and SOG too, where tools will be a mix of some new-style components and some old-style components, until all the old ones are used up. Still and all though, that plier head was changed back in 2005, surely all the old ones are gone by now?? ???
Scrappy, I like your theory about the heads with no shields. :salute: I'll bet it is simply a matter of the assembly person grabbing two non-shielded halves and riveting them together. But if that's the case, shouldn't we be seeing some tools with a shield on both sides too? :think:
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Here is the official Victorinox Customer Service answer on this topic of plier change:
Thank you for contacting Victorinox Swiss Army.
Yes That’s the latest design
Please contact us if you need further assistance.
Sincerely,
Victorinox Swiss Army Customer Service
=========== previous message(s) ===========
On 2013/01/19 01:32:16 wrote:
Swisstool - the latest pictures show the plier head slimmer and skinnier than before. Is this the latest design? Why the change?
thank you very much.
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odd?? Here is the message they sent me, which is different than what they told you. They claim the plier should have a shield and or the word victorinox.
-------- Original message --------
Subject: Victorinox Swiss Army Customer Service Inquiry
Date: Wed Jan 09 05:44:00 MST 2013
From: Victorinox Consumer Support <ap3373sdvf0x.vef6uamodo5k@cs.swissarmy.com>
To: terry.labrum@yahoo.com
Dear Terry,
Thank you for contacting Victorinox Swiss Army.
this is what I have found out for you,
Cross and Shield and or Victorinox should appear on pliers heads
Please contact us if you need further assistance.
Sincerely,
Victorinox Swiss Army Customer Service
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I asked only about a SKINNIER plier head and if they are adopting it - I did not ask about identifying stamps or marks on plier head.
In any case, if any of us want the bigger stronger plier head, I suppose now is the time to buy the old stock while it lasts.
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I don't mean to argue. I just don't understand the change.
I mention the stamps because the photos I have seen with the skinnier plier on the new handles have no shield. But the customer service rep told me that the tools do have shields. So it seems to me there are some inconsistancies with their photos. I can see them going back to the skinnier head possibly but not switching back to how the plier was assembled to have maximum strength in a clockwise motion. It just doesn't make sense.
I have worked with their customer service before, and they have led me astray. Not willfully, they just weren't aware of the minute differences in their tools. Recently that happened when I asked about the new serrated sheepsfoot blade. I recieved a response that all swisstools (not spirits) have a pointy blade. Which is accurate, just not what I was asking about.
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I have to admit that I don't even own a Swisstool but I was wondering if this one is showing the new style we are looking at? I'm not very up on these but that doesn't look like the 2005 pliers to me.
I finally got a ST ... my Leathermans - beware :)
(http://www.tap.pl/_img/knives/victorinox-swisstool-original1.jpg)
(http://www.tap.pl/_img/knives/victorinox-swisstool-original2.jpg)
Just bought by tep78 and doesn't have the old red logo.
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Can I jump into this debate too.
The postman just delivered my Vic Swisstool CS - Bargain from amazon warehouse deal.
Anyway it's turned up today and well it doesn't look right. The red logo has gone, the pliers don't show the Cross emblem anywhere. Yes, it's stamped above the vic' name on the handle but not the plier head. Also, mine has slight play in the plier head, straight out of the box. I've totally scrutinized it cannot find any trace of previous use - the box was slightly crumpled, so I'm guessing that's the reason for the BIG reduction. Surprised this got past Vic's QC.
Not impressed at all really - I think I may well be returning it as it was purhased with a xmas gift card I received.
However as it was cheap, didn't I read somewhere on here about striking the plier with a centre punch to remove this problem.
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Gareth, that is even weirder than the other tools I have seen. It has an old plier and old handle but no red paint...
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Okay. I think I see. That is a very old model. because it does not have the cork screw hole. It gas a small hole instead. It is on the metal backstop to the pliers. Does that make sense?
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Scrappy, you definitely know more about these than I do((http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs12/i/2006/292/7/c/Bow_by_sweetbox.gif)) but I do see what you mean. So do we think they are releasing older MT's but without the red logo? ???
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Scrappy - you are right about the latest photos of the skinnier plier - they do not have shield stamps on them. Someone previously mentioned that a recently purchased wider plier version was also missing the shield stamp on the wider plier. Some here assumed Vic made a change making both tools (full sized and Spirit) without shield stamps. Time will tell.
Gareth - the photo is old - You can barely make out the shield stamp on the handles in FRONT of the "Victorinox" stamp. The owner probably rubbed off the red paint as some owners are known for doing. Some owners here have done so to theirs.
Tosh - most full size Swisstools do have a small amount of play in the plier pivot - all the ones I've looked at have play - my own and also in various stores. Not a bad thing - in that the mechanism has smoothness to it, unlike other brands who don't have play but the mechanism might be a bit tight and rough. But like you, I would probably prefer less play and more tightness.
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This might clarify some things. This is my brand new Swiss Tool, no more red paint, plier head is the same as the 05 version with a cross and shield stamp. Also, this is the regular Swiss Tool with sheep foot style serrated blade.
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m234/wave180/P1040064_zps241b4514.jpg) (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/wave180/media/P1040064_zps241b4514.jpg.html)
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Mine looks like that too. I am sure that is the most recent. The photos showing the smaller plier head are from prototypes and are not production models. One way to tell that is by looking at the corkscrew adapter. If the photo has a circle it is not a production model. If it has a squiggly triangle to connect the corkscrew, it is a production model.
I have said this before. I spoke with a current dealer and this plier head is the current model being shipped to dealers.
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Scrappy the models with smaller plier heads and round corkscrew hole WERE production models and not prototypes , there are many of these models in circulation , I have one that has no hard wire notch in the cutters which makes it a really early one.
I've always preferred the 98 plier head, it opens and closes with more resistance.
Dunc
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I am sorry Dunc. I didn't mean to say they were never production models. I meant the recent photos of the old plier with the new handles and sheepsfoot blade are not a production model. They are just stock photos. The current production model looks just like the pic wave180 shared.
Older models pre 2002 did use the smaller plier. I carry one as an edc often. Thanks for helping clarify my statement.
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Sorry Scrappy I miss understood you , havnt had my coffee yet :facepalm:
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Mine looks like that too. I am sure that is the most recent. The photos showing the smaller plier head are from prototypes and are not production models. One way to tell that is by looking at the corkscrew adapter. If the photo has a circle it is not a production model. If it has a squiggly triangle to connect the corkscrew, it is a production model.
I have said this before. I spoke with a current dealer and this plier head is the current model being shipped to dealers.
You just made me a very happy man. That's awesome news that the New Swisstool with the sheepsfoot serrated blade still has the larger pliers :gimme:
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I just received a brand new silver SwissTool that looks as the one below with one more change - there is no shield embossed on the pliers head anymore. The pliers head is blank (although nicely machined) on both sides. Standard SwissTool, sheep foot serrated blade as the one in the pic. Very nicely built otherwise, no blade/tools play (usually associated with the SwissTools), thight and smooth at the same time.
Few weeks ago I got a BO variant of the same SwissTool standard model from Tim (Tim, if you read this: :cheers:!) and that one looks exactly as the one in this pic, the embossed shield included, just in all black.
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m234/wave180/P1040064_zps241b4514.jpg) (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/wave180/media/P1040064_zps241b4514.jpg.html)
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Swiss Tool Black plier heads with Blasting Cap Crimper
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Very nice Melvin :tu: And congrats, those with the cap crimper are not seen very often. :)
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Very nice Melvin :tu: And congrats, those with the cap crimper are not seen very often. :)
Thank you J-sews...
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Swiss Tool Black plier heads with Blasting Cap Crimper
Ohh,nice one Melvin.. 8) 8)
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Does anyone have a Victorinox catalog pic of the 1998 Victorinox SwissTool X set which also included screwdriver bits, the "L" shaped bit drive bar, and nylon case that holds all?
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I just received a brand new silver SwissTool that looks as the one below with one more change - there is no shield embossed on the pliers head anymore. The pliers head is blank (although nicely machined) on both sides. Standard SwissTool, sheep foot serrated blade as the one in the pic. Very nicely built otherwise, no blade/tools play (usually associated with the SwissTools), thight and smooth at the same time.
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m234/wave180/P1040064_zps241b4514.jpg) (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/wave180/media/P1040064_zps241b4514.jpg.html)
I recently bought a new Swisstool Spirit RT "Road Tour Edition", and then about a week later, I bought two more from a different seller. The first one I received has the little Vic logo etched on the pliers head, but the other two that I received do not have the logo. Instead they'er just machined smooth. I wonder how many of the Spirit RTs have the etched Vic logo on the pliers head as opposed to without the etched logo?
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Here is a pic of the three Spirit RTs that displays the one with the small Vic logo etched or engraved on the plier head, and the other two without the logo.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3749/11312857005_280c7ee780_o.jpg)
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My Spirit RT (bought it in August 2011) also has the logo on the plier head 8).
(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx39/Rikske77/Victorinox%20Spirit%20Road%20Tour/IMG_7324.jpg) (http://s739.photobucket.com/user/Rikske77/media/Victorinox%20Spirit%20Road%20Tour/IMG_7324.jpg.html)
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This might clarify some things. This is my brand new Swiss Tool, no more red paint, plier head is the same as the 05 version with a cross and shield stamp. Also, this is the regular Swiss Tool with sheep foot style serrated blade.
(http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m234/wave180/P1040064_zps241b4514.jpg) (http://s105.photobucket.com/user/wave180/media/P1040064_zps241b4514.jpg.html)
I too have this one with the sheepfoot style serrated blade, no red on handles but NO shield stamp on pliers head!
@burnside - I too have two of the RS and neither have any shield stamp on them. Both smooth!
I also have a Swisstool with the scissors that has a shield and Victorinox stamp on one side. It also appears that the pliers head is not as stubby as the one with the sheeps foot serrated blade.
Too many variations and I wish they would stop. Just make them one way. Any idea of production dates for the ones I have? :D
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I can't compare them anymore because I sent the two RTs with smooth plier heads and no logo to Thunderpants this afternoon, but I just noticed in the photo that the one with the logo on the plier head looks a little wider and less slim than the other two. I wish I could compare them still, but like I said, it's too late for that.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3749/11312857005_280c7ee780_o.jpg)
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I can't compare them anymore because I sent the two RTs with smooth plier heads and no logo to Thunderpants this afternoon, but I just noticed in the photo that the one with the logo on the plier head looks a little wider and less slim than the other two. I wish I could compare them still, but like I said, it's too late for that.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3749/11312857005_280c7ee780_o.jpg)
I noticed that too in the pic but thought maybe it was just an illusion! LOL
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Great thread!!
-AdmSlc
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Does anyone know if manufacturing is subbed out to various shops or all manufactured inside one Victorinox plant? This could lead to variations, and some of these stamping variations could be internal codes to indicate the specific production source. A full "Victorinox" label is one thing because it looks like it's cast into the piece, but the little Swiss crosses look rather like a stamp applied afterwards to an item that has passed quality control. All of this is common in manufacture of many tools and such.
Also, there's a thing that's very common in Europe called a "lunch-box" product. Assembly-line workers in the factory get to take parts that may have minor defects (like two jaws that don't pair up adequately, although if a worker sorts through a rejects bin he can find two that do work just fine) and spend their lunch hour making a couple units for family and friends. Inevitably some guys make a bunch that they sell on the side. They won't necessarily have any QC stamps but you never really know.
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Welcome to the forum, lanedecamp. :waving:
As far as I know all the Victorinox tools are from Ibach, Switzerland. Only part that's outsourced is the corkscrew, and that comes from Trier, France.
The little shield was an addition to the Spirit plier head, my newer Spirit has it too, the older one doesn't.
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Just added this info to the Encyclopedia. Scroll down to the bottom of the SwissTool page HERE (https://wiki.multitool.org/tiki-index.php?page=SwissTool) and click on Dunc's plier head picture.
Bob
Excellent information - thanks!
One small point, if I may (definitely no offence intended!). The notes for the diagram say, "Note that the advantage of the new plier design only comes into play when the jaws are positioned perpendicular to the bolt head, not parallel".
I found this a little unclear at first and think that any confusion might be avoided by saying, "Note that the advantage of the new plier design only comes into play when the long axis of the pliers is coincident with the long axis of the bolt".
Ken
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Thanks for sharing this information.
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I may have a Swiss Tool anomaly here. It has the '98 Vic-and-shield-stamped Plier head on it, but with the earlier.......97 ??... "no-hard-wire-notch".
It has the round hole for the Corkscrew, and it has the fluted Reamer, which also dates it early (according to these pages).
Blades are Spear-Point PE, and Spear-Point SE.
File is the "old" non-aggressive cutter, similar to that found on old SAK Champions or Mountaineers.
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Hi,
not sure if it was shown here before, just compared my two Swisstools.
One was bought around 2006 and the other one bought last year.
There the newer one has a different Head, no more stamped in Cross, edges cut off and more bulky.
Plus the handle opens about 5mm more at the newer one.
Photos: left or upper tool: new one. right or bottom one: old one.
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Besides these differences, also the back of the pliers jaws, where they attach to the pivots are different from the previous one. Now there is a slot.
But I am very disappointed with the lower quality. I had an old swisstool with 2 blades and I wanted to have the scissors model, so I bought it this week, from Amazon.de.
The logo on the scales is very imprecisely made and the tools don´t lock open firmly, there´s a 1 mm up and down wobble at their tip.
I also have an old model with scissors that I bought used and badly worn and the build is much better, the logo is large and beautiful. The tools lock with a strong click.
Regards,
Eduardo
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Let's see, a rough calculation as my napkin wasn't large enough any more:
5 basic versions of Plier head.
Roughly 3 finishes (SS, BO, Road/Tour finish)
With and without Cap Crimper.
Now: different variations of construction between even the same exact tool between model years.
And maybe I missed variants too.
I will definitely need to re-fi the Chateau to get them all.
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Hi,
not sure if it was shown here before, just compared my two Swisstools.
One was bought around 2006 and the other one bought last year.
There the newer one has a different Head, no more stamped in Cross, edges cut off and more bulky.
Plus the handle opens about 5mm more at the newer one.
Photos: left or upper tool: new one. right or bottom one: old one.
It seems like one has a metric ruler, and the other one has imperial ruler markings? Could it be that there are differences between US and EU versions?
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Hi,
not sure if it was shown here before, just compared my two Swisstools.
One was bought around 2006 and the other one bought last year.
There the newer one has a different Head, no more stamped in Cross, edges cut off and more bulky.
Plus the handle opens about 5mm more at the newer one.
Photos: left or upper tool: new one. right or bottom one: old one.
It seems like one has a metric ruler, and the other one has imperial ruler markings? Could it be that there are differences between US and EU versions?
Metric on one side of the handle, imperial on the other.
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Perhaps my research is incomplete. I was shopping for a Swisstool when I noticed the CS Plus and the Spirit Plus both seem to lack the crimping tool (for splicing or capping electrical wire).
My Leatherman ST200 has the crimper that I'm talking about below the hinge.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170926/e2789310f25b4f7875238b5eb7dddb3a.jpg)
Did I just not see it? Is there a Swisstool with a crimper and where is it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Perhaps my research is incomplete. I was shopping for a Swisstool when I noticed the CS Plus and the Spirit Plus both seem to lack the crimping tool (for splicing or capping electrical wire).
My Leatherman ST200 has the crimper that I'm talking about below the hinge.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170926/e2789310f25b4f7875238b5eb7dddb3a.jpg)
Did I just not see it? Is there a Swisstool with a crimper and where is it?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The SwissTools don't have that feature, but the newer 91/111mm pliers do. Some of them (ST's) have cap crimpers, but that's a tool for explosive detonators, which most of us will never have any use for. Even the vast majority of military personnel don't need a cap crimper MT, so I have always found it a strange addition. I have used the Spirit wire cutters for crimping electrical connectors, which worked fine for repairs or incidental stuff, but if I am planning to do a lot of wiring, I like to have dedicated tools along.
:tu:
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:shrug: Still trying to get any input regarding the 1997 Swiss Tool with Victorinox logo and shield centered on the pliers but so far no response from SwissTool experts out there :( I'm not familiar with all different Swiss Tool models and as far as I understand, logo and shield emblem were centered on the pliers only in 1997. Does this makes it rare and more collectible?
(http://imageshack.com/a/img924/4479/9kJtXr.jpg)
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I'm not an expert so likely totally wrong but here is my two cents.
Rare, I don't think so. Collectable, to the right person yeah sure. Would they pay a lot for it, probably not.
It's definitely a cool piece but I wouldn't feel bad putting it to work.
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Thanks zoi !
I guess not to many out there in the SwissTool world are familiar with this pliers variation since you were the only one who responded :D Anyhow, there's one selling on eBay for $150 and I was just curious since the seller claims is very rare.
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I think when it comes to sites like the bay and the word rare, the seller is counting on the buyer being in the moment and not doing any research.
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If you read about the history (on this site, sakwiki, and elsewhere), the pliers based MT was a market Vic was trying to get into back in the mid '90s. They invested a lot into acquiring the patent for outside opening tools and offered a few different MTs initially, the SwissTool, AutoTool and SportRatchet around the same time. It seems that after the introduction only the SwissTool had enough interest to continue and they made improvements and increased prodution the next year, also offering tool variations (X, RS) '98 and later. I think the '97s are collectable, and also being 20 years old now are getting harder to find. I have not seen the prodution numbers, but judging by the availability of the '97 vs. the subsequent years, it seems to have been a more limited amount to test the market. I felt fairly lucky to have found one in good unused condition, but also while I think they are somewhat rare and collectable, I didn't pay any more for it than any other year model. Again, maybe this was only lucky for me that the seller was unaware of the age or history of it, or didn't consider it collectable. :salute:
edit: Just looked at the auction listing for $150, "very rare" is definitely overstating it.
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The 98 pattern tools will transition from a round hole to elongated hole lanyard/corkscrew attachment point.
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The 98 pattern tools will transition from a round hole to elongated hole lanyard/corkscrew attachment point.
Not sure when the changeover was, but yes the earlier ones had a round hole in the pliers springs.
Just noticed how badly photobucketed this thread is now. :facepalm:
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I believe mine is either a 98 or a 99 model, I've had it since then. My hole in elongated for the corkscrew. I've got the CS Plus toolkit.
Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
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Are the pliers adjustable like the Leathermans?
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Are the pliers adjustable like the Leathermans?
No, the Swisstool pliers aren't adjustable.
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The 98 pattern tools will transition from a round hole to elongated hole lanyard/corkscrew attachment point.
Not sure when the changeover was, but yes the earlier ones had a round hole in the pliers springs.
Just noticed how badly photobucketed this thread is now. :facepalm:
This isn't the only forum suffering from Photobucket's insanity. Every long-running forum has the same problem and the worst part is how it's hit the older "sticky" threads that had great information in them.
I keep getting SPAM emails from them wanting me to spend a fortune on a subscription. It was their prerogative to do what they did per free user terms and conditions, but the animus they've generated toward their brand name will outlive the lifetime of those at Photobucket that decided to do it. I can understand how they had to change the business model as their hosting and bandwidth costs for all the free folks were killing them financially. They were the primary "go-to" for eBay sellers and you can only imagine what that did to their bandwidth consumption. However, their financial and business model course correction was beyond Draconian wanting hundreds per year from people to post images on other sites. It undoubtedly accomplished what they wanted, a dramatic reduction in bandwidth consumption but don't believe they considered the long-term backlash and loss of Good Will toward their brand name. Haven't added a single photo to their site since then.
I don't go on the site anymore unless I've got an excellent ad blocker running full tilt, and it's only to download and recover photos I uploaded there before their insanity. The relentless ads are beyond annoying, popping out from every side and covering over what you're trying to do and look at, many of them blaring video at full volume.
John
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With the reversing of the pivot direction and strengthening of the plier heads the handle spread is getting worse with every modification. Slim indeed are the 98-2002, from then on its wider and wider. Got a 2015 with the new style sheeps foot and its hard to grip when using the pliers. Gotta say the leathermans are going the same way as well with side kick/wingman and Rev.
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I may have a Swiss Tool anomaly here. It has the '98 Vic-and-shield-stamped Plier head on it, but with the earlier.......97 ??... "no-hard-wire-notch".
It has the round hole for the Corkscrew, and it has the fluted Reamer, which also dates it early (according to these pages).
Blades are Spear-Point PE, and Spear-Point SE.
File is the "old" non-aggressive cutter, similar to that found on old SAK Champions or Mountaineers.
I picked up one of these yesterday for a song.
Absolutely unused, still with the factory lubrication.
The leather sheath has never been used.
In its original packaging and with its original instructions.
It will be my new daily carry.
I only buy knives to be used.
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My 98 Swisstool x had the elongated hole, so they designed a pocket clip in 2021 or so that fits on a 20 year old tool, thats what i love about Victorinox, they are here for the long run. My Swisstool BS from 2022 had crimpers in the Plier, did not like that and Victorinox put regular ones in it, alongside with replacing the "wavy" blade with scissors. Their service is phenomenal.
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Thats how the original plierhead from the BS looked before Vic changed it for me:)
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Here some pliers heads, i know that oldest is between 97-98 (since round hole in spring and groove on awl)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230418/e8bd9941d1479a92e44cdb83b6c6a7a4.jpg)
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