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Tool Talk => Swiss Army Knights Forum => Topic started by: Outback in Idaho on January 28, 2013, 03:19:31 AM

Title: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on January 28, 2013, 03:19:31 AM: Does anyone have a blueprint, real sized photo, or tracing of the 91mm Plus 'pin' scale?

Am considering making some plus handles for my Climber, probably out of wood. I only have the non-plus scales, would like to have a diagram of some sort to go by. Something that I can actually use.

Thank You. ;)
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on January 28, 2013, 03:41:53 AM: Just ordered a pair of North Queensland Silky Oak Wood Knife Scales (http://www.ebay.com/itm/North-Queensland-Silky-Oak-Wood-Knife-Scales-x-2-138mm-x-40mm-x-11mm-/261108882595?pt=AU_Woodcrafts&hash=item3ccb4d5ca3) from eBay for $13.70 AUD ($14.66 USD).

(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/North-Queensland-Silky-Oak-Wood-Knife-Scales-x-2-138mm-x-40mm-x-11mm-/00/s/MzMxWDU1NQ==/$T2eC16NHJHwE9n8ig+zFBQb4jFCDSw~~60_35.JPG)

Now to acquire a plus scale schematic to construct a set. Should have enough of the wood left over to make other things with, maybe even silky oak toothpicks. :D

Maybe even make a silk oak bead for a lanyard. :tu:
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: WoodMan on January 28, 2013, 03:52:16 AM: PM me your email and I can send you a .dwg or .dxf copy. Or even a paper copy if you're willing to send your mailing address. I also have full-size .jpg scans of them if you want those.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on January 28, 2013, 03:56:25 AM: Quote from: WoodMan on January 28, 2013, 03:52:16 AM
PM me your email and I can send you a .dwg or .dxf copy. Or even a paper copy if you're willing to send your mailing address. I also have full-size .jpg scans of them if you want those.

Don't have any CAD software though. Are there any free or trial viewers for CADnoobies?
PM Incoming. Thank you
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: PTRSAK on January 28, 2013, 04:36:51 AM: Quote from: Xelkos on January 28, 2013, 03:41:53 AM
Should have enough of the wood left over to make other things with, maybe even silky oak toothpicks. :D

Maybe even make a silk oak bead for a lanyard. :tu:

If you are careful, and have the tools to do it, you should be able to get Two sets of scales out of EACH of those blanks or enough to do 4 knives all up. I bought a pair of the Yellow Box Burl blanks and will be squeezing the max number out of them.

138x40 is big enough to "top and tail" the scales and fit two on the blank and they are 11mm thick so you could split them and still be thick enough for scales with slots for T&T, pin and pen.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on January 28, 2013, 04:50:09 AM: Quote from: PTRSAK on January 28, 2013, 04:36:51 AM
Quote from: Xelkos on January 28, 2013, 03:41:53 AM
Should have enough of the wood left over to make other things with, maybe even silky oak toothpicks. :D

Maybe even make a silk oak bead for a lanyard. :tu:

If you are careful, and have the tools to do it, you should be able to get Two sets of scales out of EACH of those blanks or enough to do 4 knives all up. I bought a pair of the Yellow Box Burl blanks and will be squeezing the max number out of them.

138x40 is big enough to "top and tail" the scales and fit two on the blank and they are 11mm thick so you could split them and still be thick enough for scales with slots for T&T, pin and pen.

If only had access to a hand miter saw that might do it. Perhaps could cut the blanks in blocks first, then use a hacksaw blade to split the thickness again. Will look into it. I don't have a shop to work in, so will be making these at home. Do have a Dremel tool though. :D
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: KTesh on January 28, 2013, 06:10:51 AM: Don't have a diagram... Got photos...

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8334/8366053137_90662bb071.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/ufobike/8366053137/)

I've got a full set of them (image is a link)
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: papercut on January 28, 2013, 07:39:40 AM: Edrawing viewer for cad viewer or auto desk has one free one too.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on January 28, 2013, 09:38:34 AM: Was searching online for a 91mm scale, and found a more flat photo. Freehand scaled it down to really close. Is not accurate, but if nothing else the transparency could help assist in making a template. Thanks to EDC Source.

Think that bug is Neil's mark?
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: lowtech on January 28, 2013, 10:32:26 AM: Nothing special, but i slapped a pair on my scanner accompanied by a ruler with strange markings (me coming from the metric part of the world...)
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: tosh on January 28, 2013, 10:43:02 AM: I too was going to have a bash at this..not yet got round to it :whistle: despite buying the wood & horn blanks and like you I too was trying to workout the best possible way.

My own method was to simply photocopy the plus scales and simply stick this onto the material or failing that, photocopy the normal scales and ask a fellow mod member the exact dimensions of the pen slot.

However, another member, Mr Bee (not been around for a while) advised me to use the aluminium liners as the template (brilliant idea) - this would then allow precise alignment of the holes for the rivets. I'm sure one of the many modders here on the forum would help you out in sourcing the liners.

A picture of your finished scales may well be the much needed push I need too, to get me inspired again.

Best of luck!

Why don't you consider photographing and uploading the whole sequence - then others who have attempted this in the past may well be able to offer advice to ensure the project is a success.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: HankSolon on January 28, 2013, 10:59:32 AM: Do you want to CNC the scales?

If not, a detailed print is too much imho. Just cut rectangles of length x width (of normal scales) + 5mm panic space. In this step there allways something happens and you might adjust the exact position of the scale within that workpiece, exchange some workpieces to find better matching ones etc.

If you want to have exact positions of toothpick, tweezers, pen and needle you'll need to drill the exact recesses of the pivots before and and after that pre outline the shape.

Cutting the shape without drilling the recesses before results in a non accurate work.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on January 28, 2013, 12:17:33 PM: Quote from: lowtech on January 28, 2013, 10:32:26 AM
Nothing special, but i slapped a pair on my scanner accompanied by a ruler with strange markings (me coming from the metric part of the world...)

Outstanding. Used Picasa to scale the view, then screen captured it to match (very closely). Hopefully I can cut a temporary template from it, match to the standard scales I have, before tracing to the wood. Probably be at least a week before the wood scales arrive.

This is going to be an interesting project. :D

Plan on having my Climber for many years. Don't have any spare aluminum scales to work with. That would be cool to have, drilled out centered holes to match up on the wood, then filing the outer edge to within 1mm or 2mm would be bonzer.
Be even more radical if the aluminum scale templates had cut or recessed channels for standard & plus scales.

Will make due with what I have, and try and not be too much of a pest here. There have been a few posts on wood SAK handles here already. Was doing some searches for 91mm Plus scales and finding all sorts of cool MTO posts.
Revived one I think. :D
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: WoodMan on January 28, 2013, 05:06:13 PM: .dxf sent. Check your email.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: PTRSAK on January 28, 2013, 11:47:38 PM: ok, dodgy upload attempt... I have added a .txt extension to Plus.DXF. hopefully this will slip it past the upload robo-nazi.
if you rename the file to remove the .txt it will be openable in your favorite CAD program/viewer.

Also attached a PDF copy. It is the vector image inside so should still be in 1:1 scale.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on January 29, 2013, 12:20:50 AM: Quote from: WoodMan on January 28, 2013, 05:06:13 PM
.dxf sent. Check your email.

Aye, thanks mate. Will be download a viewer once this rather large update gets finished. /anxious
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on January 29, 2013, 05:07:48 AM: Seen that a Swiss Bianco of Canada (http://swissbianco.ca/products4.htm) has some Victorinox hat pins.

Couple of questions: Are these small, thin, & sturdy enough to be epoxied into 91mm hardwood scales, and are there any places to acquire a few from the US - since shipping went through the roof recently?

(http://swissbianco.ca/images/Inventory/VIC/pins.jpg) (http://swissbianco.ca/images/Inventory/VIC/pins_b.jpg)

Or is trying to find a logo to inset into a wooden scale over doing it?
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on January 30, 2013, 12:57:10 AM: For the pin, having a recent issue with the pin getting caught on the corkscrew, had come up with the idea of putting a small magnet into the handle. This would also help keep the pin magnetized & held into place since my Climber has aluminum scales.

Debating between these two, unless someone else has another option. Have tried the flexible magnet inside the current plastic scale and it just does not do a thing. Not enough magnetic power there.

15 PC Neodymium Magnets N42 Dia 2X2mm Rare Earth NdFeB Magnets (http://www.amazon.com/Neodymium-Magnets-2X2mm-Earth-NdFeB/dp/B000UCQMA0/ref=sr_1_69?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1359503131&sr=1-69)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41W6ApohcwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

50 Pieces N42 Neodymium Magnets Dia 3mm x 1.5mm Thick (http://www.amazon.com/Pieces-Neodymium-Magnets-1-5mm-Thick/dp/B000TKEXLI/ref=sr_1_45?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1359503085&sr=1-45)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31RhcOATH3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Comments, suggestions, or... :pommel: ?
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: lowtech on January 30, 2013, 09:26:27 AM: Regarding the Vic Logo pins, I dare say they will be too big for the scales, the backside clips are typically somewhere between 12-15 mm (roughly 1/2 inch) and are totally covered by the pin.

Maybe you can take out the inlaid logo of soem Cellidor scales or cut out the hot stamped logo of a set of scales and lay that in.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on January 30, 2013, 09:41:24 AM: Quote from: lowtech on January 30, 2013, 09:26:27 AM
Regarding the Vic Logo pins, I dare say they will be too big for the scales, the backside clips are typically somewhere between 12-15 mm (roughly 1/2 inch) and are totally covered by the pin.

Maybe you can take out the inlaid logo of some Cellidor scales or cut out the hot stamped logo of a set of scales and lay that in.

Will look around. Don't really need a logo. Don't have anything that small that looks good. Have committed with the wood. Can always add a logo some other time.

Wonder if Victorinox had the idea of hiding a small sharpening slip-stone into that scale recess?
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: PTRSAK on January 30, 2013, 12:55:16 PM: Talking of logos for wooden scales...
This is a bit of an experiment testing a couple of things. Firstly to see how an "Ivory" cross inlayed into the wood looks and how easy the Tagua nut "vegetable ivory" is to work with and how well it wears.
I will finish these to fit a Recruit and give it a bit of pocket time with flashlight, keys and change for company.

I think it will look pretty schmick myself.

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/Peter_Thorpe/20130130_204452_zps88f5456a.jpg)
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Wootz on January 30, 2013, 01:13:13 PM: I like it :tu:

Bone and copper cross:
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Northern Geek on January 30, 2013, 01:15:48 PM: Quote from: PTRSAK on January 30, 2013, 12:55:16 PM
Talking of logos for wooden scales...
This is a bit of an experiment testing a couple of things. Firstly to see how an "Ivory" cross inlayed into the wood looks and how easy the Tagua nut "vegetable ivory" is to work with and how well it wears.
I will finish these to fit a Recruit and give it a bit of pocket time with flashlight, keys and change for company.

I think it will look pretty schmick myself.

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/Peter_Thorpe/20130130_204452_zps88f5456a.jpg)

That ought to look very nice when it's fitted!
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on January 30, 2013, 01:56:57 PM: Should hit up Home Depot for a coping saw. Next probably a sealer & varnish, or just use the varnish to seal the wood pores as I'm working with it. Wished was a hobby shop around here to where I could purchase small containers. Then have to figure out what glue or epoxy to use.

Just dawned on me that I forgot to order a pen, lol. Placed a small order with Swiss Knife Shop, and had to add a few smaller items to help meet the minimum order for the free first class shipping. Never ordered with them before. The Boise store where I got the Climber from had no pens...
Amazon's prices were double of what Swiss Knife Shop was on the pen part. $6.25 for a pen?? :ahhh
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on January 30, 2013, 02:04:20 PM: Quote from: PTRSAK on January 30, 2013, 12:55:16 PM
Talking of logos for wooden scales...
This is a bit of an experiment testing a couple of things. Firstly to see how an "Ivory" cross inlayed into the wood looks and how easy the Tagua nut "vegetable ivory" is to work with and how well it wears.
I will finish these to fit a Recruit and give it a bit of pocket time with flashlight, keys and change for company.

I think it will look pretty schmick myself.

Impressive. Dare I ask how you put the inlay in?
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: PTRSAK on January 31, 2013, 07:46:03 AM: I cut the cross out of the slice of Tagua nut Ivory and then trace it on the wood. Then using Dremel and hobby knife I cut the recess about 1/2 way through the wood. The cross is a loose fit at this stage. I mix up a glue from Epoxy resin and sanding dust from scraps of the wood and use this to glue the cross in. The "glue" has a colour and texture similar to the wood and once sanded flush there is no gap around the edge of the cross.

As I said, this one is an experiment so it's only about 90% on the care and attention to detail, but I have never been one to polish a prototype.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on January 31, 2013, 08:57:13 AM: Quote from: PTRSAK on January 31, 2013, 07:46:03 AM
I cut the cross out of the slice of Tagua nut Ivory and then trace it on the wood. Then using Dremel and hobby knife I cut the recess about 1/2 way through the wood. The cross is a loose fit at this stage. I mix up a glue from Epoxy resin and sanding dust from scraps of the wood and use this to glue the cross in. The "glue" has a colour and texture similar to the wood and once sanded flush there is no gap around the edge of the cross.

As I said, this one is an experiment so it's only about 90% on the care and attention to detail, but I have never been one to polish a prototype.

Aye, have used that technique as a kid when making boomerangs. Something learned in shop class, to mix the sawdust you are using with Elmer's glue. Gives it color, bond, and allows sealing as the wood fibers are porous. :tu:

Not to side-track the topic, had this experimental (one time only) formica triangle boomerang idea where I had used sawdust and Super Glue as filler. Needed to put in angles to turn the boomerang (gyroscopic procession). Formica was so thin there was nothing to work with.
Also used aluminum rivets at each bind point as glue wasn't holding. Contact cement was the best to stick the formica pieces together but was no where sturdy for the forces induced by the flight properties of a boomerang. Super Glue stuck to anything. :D Fingers too!
It worked out, but the flight path was so erratic only its creator (me) was able to figure it out.
(Attached (ugly) photo)

Later on in life, Herb A. Smith of Sussex, England, had used Paxolin material to break the world's distance record. Once word got out what he was using Volker Behrens and Al Gerhards started using it. Stuff was too expensive for me to ship some in. Gosh, how I'd luv to find a supplier - but it probably way too expensive to buy & ship.

I flew one of Herb's Torando's out over a 140 acre field, across the 6 lane freeway, and it still continued across the field on the other side before it ever lifted high into the sky. Trust me, I was sweating it the first throw. Had to lay it way over where you do not normally release a boomerang at - without severe consequences.
It roses to unimaginable height, about lost it in the afternoon sun. By the time my eyes adjusted it landed to the left of me four feet away! Glad it didn't hit me. :D
Could only fly it a few times before my shoulder felt like it was going to fall off. I really leaned into it. Fun times, will attach that one as well. Have 1 of 2 remaining. Someone stole my other. /grr

Fun times. Bought my first boomerang from Richard Harrison, The Boomerang Man (http://theboomerangman.com/), when he was in Monroe, Louisiana. First one was a Wycheproof (Australian), made by Bunny read. Handsome and attractive wood with Aussie motifs on the elbow. Great for display purposes.
Later on bought a special run of Lorin Hawe's M-17 in Coachwood & another in Silky Oak. The silky oak one was by far my favorite, and thus why I wanted it for the handles/scales of my first Victorinox knife.

If it turns out good, as never made these before, then any subsequent Vic knives might be fashioned from this wood.

Also ordered some 1.5mm x 3mm flat-round neodymium magnets to put into the scales. Figure one to hold & touch the pin. Keep it held in there since the layer is aluminum, and also to keep it magnetized - if I ever need it. Figure would also put in two to hold the writing pen in, and maybe another for the tweezers.
The magnets are coming in a lot of 50, so I should have plenty! :ahhh

Had figured you would have undercut the insignia into the wood with an exacto blade or scalpel. I have nothing that looks ivory or other wood to use - and no I'm not going to sabotage my boomerangs. Maybe I can get some down the road to add in later.

Thanks for the update. And I apologize for being windy again. :whistle:

Edit: Correcting spelling errors. Spell checker is being lazy.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: PTRSAK on January 31, 2013, 10:45:42 AM: This is what I bought, http://www.ebay.com/itm/130835306097?

Enough there to make a dozen or more crosses. The red dye just sands off, only on the surface.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on January 31, 2013, 12:00:51 PM: Quote from: PTRSAK on January 31, 2013, 10:45:42 AM
This is what I bought, http://www.ebay.com/itm/130835306097?

Enough there to make a dozen or more crosses. The red dye just sands off, only on the surface.

Awesome. Just ordered some. My cc is hating me about now. :ahhh
Free shipping though.

• Exotic Australian Wood
• Pen, pin, & spare toothpick to quality for free shipping from Swiss Knife Shop. Was cheaper than Amazon!
• 1.5 H x 3mm W neodymium magnets (50)
• Ivory Nut Shells

Still going to need to get some sort of glue or epoxy (any recommendations?), coping saw, sandpaper, ect.

When I kick the bucket someone's going to have fun with that Climber

But, you know, when I was searching for a 1961 six pence Australian coin that went MIA ran across a rather useful tool. A valve core tool. Then made me wonder if that hidden slot was big enough to fit in a flat valve core tool. Probably not.

Not seen a valve core tool on any multitool or even a hex/flat-hex bit valve core driver. Had thought E510 had fashioned a bit once... :think:

Just about every vehicle still uses valve cores. They do get loose at times, and bicycles still use them - **hisses** at Schrader valves!
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: PTRSAK on February 03, 2013, 12:35:33 PM: Quote from: PTRSAK on January 30, 2013, 12:55:16 PM
Talking of logos for wooden scales...
This is a bit of an experiment testing a couple of things. Firstly to see how an "Ivory" cross inlayed into the wood looks and how easy the Tagua nut "vegetable ivory" is to work with and how well it wears.
I will finish these to fit a Recruit and give it a bit of pocket time with flashlight, keys and change for company.

I think it will look pretty schmick myself.

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/Peter_Thorpe/20130130_204452_zps88f5456a.jpg)

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/Peter_Thorpe/20130203_212412_zps9a38a02c.jpg)

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/Peter_Thorpe/20130203_212614_zpsfab0e40e.jpg)

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/Peter_Thorpe/20130203_212529_zps64153e74.jpg)
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 03, 2013, 01:00:04 PM: You drilled out the pins in the knife then pinged them over the wooden scales? (http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Xemoticon/omg_zps58f75347.gif)

Don't think I'm that brave. Will use a glue or epoxy. :D
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 03, 2013, 01:38:21 PM: Quote from: papercut on January 28, 2013, 07:39:40 AM
Edrawing viewer for cad viewer or auto desk has one free one too.

For the Free/Trial versions: AutoDesk did not wish to cooperate when printing to a specified size, and the other just wouldn't measure or print.

The pen scale looks like the regular scale, with the added pen channel. Thanks for the effort fellas, is highly appreciated.
The graphics files are immensely valuable. That really helps grasp the visual perspective in 3D-like captures. Perhaps other folks viewing this later on in the years will find them useful too. :2tu:

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Xemoticon/yahoo.gif) Edit: The PDF file helps a lot as it easily allows for an actual sized print. (http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Xemoticon/whee_zps3a7648c1.gif)
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 05, 2013, 12:33:57 AM: Tagua Nut pieces arrived today, along with a package from Germany - Lowtech delivered goodies. :D

Took a bit of work to get the red off. That's one tough nut. They are thin enough to use a guitar picks, and each one has been drilled near the edge.
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02080_zps25554ce5.jpg)

Not sure what sort of red material that coating is. Wonder if it can be soaked in something to remove that red substance? Maybe vinegar, to remove the red dye/coating.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: MultiMat on February 05, 2013, 03:47:49 AM: Mate that looks GREAT :salute: :salute:

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/Peter_Thorpe/20130203_212614_zpsfab0e40e.jpg)

Peter any problems with the nut material getting through Oz customs being organic & all that :think: :think: Does the dye seal it & make it ok to be brought into Oz :think: :think:
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: lowtech on February 05, 2013, 09:35:59 AM: Quote from: Xelkos on February 05, 2013, 12:33:57 AM
Tagua Nut pieces arrived today, along with a package from Germany - Lowtech delivered goodies. :D

Took a bit of work to get the red off. That's one tough nut. They are thin enough to use a guitar picks, and each one has been drilled near the edge.
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02080_zps25554ce5.jpg)

Not sure what sort of red material that coating is. Wonder if it can be soaked in something to remove that red substance? Maybe vinegar, to remove the red dye/coating.

While i can´t help with the Nut´s coating, i am relieved to hear teh stuff made it safely to your door!
I´m looking forward to read about it in some other thread ;-).
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: PTRSAK on February 05, 2013, 10:05:08 AM: Quote from: MultiMat on February 05, 2013, 03:47:49 AM
Mate that looks GREAT :salute: :salute:

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/Peter_Thorpe/20130203_212614_zpsfab0e40e.jpg)

Peter any problems with the nut material getting through Oz customs being organic & all that :think: :think: Does the dye seal it & make it ok to be brought into Oz :think: :think:

didn't have any problem, can't remember what they put on the customs declaration.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 05, 2013, 11:02:18 AM: Quote from: PTRSAK on February 05, 2013, 10:05:08 AM
Quote from: MultiMat on February 05, 2013, 03:47:49 AM
Mate that looks GREAT :salute: :salute:

Peter any problems with the nut material getting through Oz customs being organic & all that :think: :think: Does the dye seal it & make it ok to be brought into Oz :think: :think:

didn't have any problem, can't remember what they put on the customs declaration.

Any secrets to getting the red dye off? That stuff is thick!

Heard not to soak the pieces as they can split and pull apart after gluing. Didn't read that before soaking two test pieces in white vinegar. The pieces came out with a slight spoon-shape to them but the dye did not budge.
Also read the nut is quite porous and absorbs.

Did you oil it or rub a varnish the scales? I was considering a satin varnish finish.

Waiting for the wood. Thinking of going with one of these two crosses, or a roo. Undecided yet.
Could put the roo on the fat end, but not sure. This is my first time making SAK scales.

Note: That's what a Tagua Nut looks like. Read they aren't more than egg sized. The tree is a palm.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: PTRSAK on February 05, 2013, 12:22:15 PM: the dye isn't thick, but it has soaked into the surface. When I did the inlay it was only to about 2/3of the thickness of the "ivory" so all the red got sanded off when I was shaping the scales.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 07, 2013, 08:11:35 PM: :pok: Found out that the White Tagua Nut Slices (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130846741857) are not dyed nor have any coating on them. Can save time on the whole 'sanding that thick dye off'.

Quote from: Wanan Beads
Yes, Tagua Slices White is natural color. Not coated with any dyes.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Tagua-Nut-Thin-Slices-White-Large-Size-Pkg-of-6-/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/$T2eC16h,!%29QE9s3HG-1iBQ!fjLlhlw~~60_35.JPG)

Silky Oak blanks arrived from Turning Timbers of Australia (http://stores.ebay.com.au/Turning-Timbers)

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02097_zps26fa76ae.jpg)

Still awaiting the 1.5mm x 2mm flat round neodymium magnets. :pok: Amazon/Magnetman (http://www.amazon.com/shops/A2WOM254LCFKNF)
Title: Pen slot has me perplexed
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 08, 2013, 08:04:37 AM: Had just enough width to cut two scale blocks.

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02100_zps6f95d504.jpg)

Used the Leatherman Rebar as its saw blade was only a hair more thicker than an hacksaw blade. Also allows me to cut long and more straight than with a coping saw - which I don't have on hand.

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02106_zpsf4e566ab.jpg)

Will potentially have two pairs of scales once cutting their width in half. Went ahead and sacrificed the cellidor scales of a Spartan to use as a physical template.

:think: As I was laying the cellidor scales over the wooden blocks I noticed a small issue. The pen's thumb-nick (head) is not shaped in the expected position.

Flipping over the pen with the flat side facing upwards...
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02109_zps6773be61.jpg)

As opposed to what looks correct on the other scale facing as it would fit, flat side down.
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02108_zps7c307c45.jpg)

So, umm... did the pen thumb-nick get changed recently? Or are there now two versions of scale pens??

Pen, curved side facing up...
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02111_zpseb969698.jpg)

Pen turned to one side.
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02112_zpsffaf2b41.jpg)

:think: Though this is a minor issue am starting to wonder which scale to put the pen channel in. The tweezer scale, both scales, or put the toothpick & tweezers on one and pen on the other?
Title: Pen slot & scale question. Are Plus thicker than normal scales?
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 09, 2013, 03:25:45 AM: How to insert the pen into the scale slot. For those that have never seen a Plus scale pen slot. Courtesy of PTRSAK for using his photo.
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/HowtoinsertthePen_zpsd04203e8.jpg)

Question: Are the Plus scales thicker than the standard scales, to make room for the thickness of the pen?
Title: Re: Pen slot & scale question. Are Plus thicker than normal scales?
Post by: WiSAKfan on February 09, 2013, 04:51:02 AM: Quote from: Xelkos on February 09, 2013, 03:25:45 AM
How to insert the pen into the scale slot. For those that have never seen a Plus scale pen slot. Courtesy of PTRSAK for using his photo.
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/HowtoinsertthePen_zpsd04203e8.jpg)

Question: Are the Plus scales thicker than the standard scales, to make room for the thickness of the pen?

yes they are thicker.
Title: Scale Holes
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 09, 2013, 02:05:53 PM: How do you all create the holes for the scales? Are they a loose, tight, or more of a snap-friction fit over the brass rivets? And do you only glue or epoxy the rivets and nothing else?

Am still figuring an inlay. Will have to either battle the red dye substance, or wait for the undyed to arrive before doing much of anything else. Wanting to get plans laid out beforehand. :D
Should be working on the templates for said holes tomorrow. Then figure a method to create a curved channel for the pen. Not sure if any store has that small of a rat tail file here locally.

Wishing had some spare/scrap 91mm aluminum scales or liners to use for templates. That would really be the bees knees!

Still waiting on the magnets to arrive... Had read a feedback where one other person ordered magnets & they had arrived 3 weeks later.

PS: How thick are the Plus scales?
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 11, 2013, 04:22:32 AM: Trying to find Tung Seed Oil proved elusive today. There was that fake Minwax stuff at Home Depot, yet no one here had the real juice. Two stores did have boiled Linseed oil. Yet to get the real McCoy had to place yet another online order. Found a 2 ounce bottle of it on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007V95LXE/ref=cm_sw_r_fa_asp_HK34F.0942K9W), for $4.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/413NCFLRjOL._SY355_.jpg)

While at Home Depot picked up a few supplies: Locktite epoxy gel, drill bits, sandpaper, Elmer's wood glue (mix with sawdust for filler if needed). Also found a manual sliding caliper in mm & inch measures for $8.

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/tools/DSC02147_zps57d2ba3c.jpg)
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: jerseydevil on February 11, 2013, 04:36:11 AM: Quote from: Xelkos on February 11, 2013, 04:22:32 AM
Trying to find Tung Seed Oil proved elusive today.

A bit off topic but if anyone in the US needs supplies for finishing wooden scales like these, let me know. It's what I sell for a living, and I can get a good price on all sorts of stains and finishes. :tu: Sorry but I'm sure I wouldn't be able to ship overseas.... :(
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 11, 2013, 04:55:58 AM: Quote from: jerseydevil on February 11, 2013, 04:36:11 AM
Quote from: Xelkos on February 11, 2013, 04:22:32 AM
Trying to find Tung Seed Oil proved elusive today.

A bit off topic but if anyone in the US needs supplies for finishing wooden scales like these, let me know. It's what I sell for a living, and I can get a good price on all sorts of stains and finishes. :tu: Sorry but I'm sure I wouldn't be able to ship overseas.... :(

Rats, wished I knew sooner. Live in Idaho myself. Only my inner essence lives in Australia. :D
Title: A bit aggravated...
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 11, 2013, 12:10:23 PM: Was trying to get two sets of scales out of the first blank, and guess I did not not allow enough working room.

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02154_zps4f1f697a.jpg)

As was fitting the first set of scales to the Spartan's pivots. Fit the top side along right on the metal edge, then looked at the bottom and can see maybe 1/16" of metal.

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02155_zpse8a60ccc.jpg)

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02156_zpscda5c3f3.jpg)

Could mix some glue and sawdust to help fill those minute areas, or cut a few thin strips then glue along the edge and work it down. Not sure where our clamps are packed. Put so much into this project, trying to work slowly and carefully... then this.

Looked at the second set and them too look like they will be affected the same. Though I cannot achieve perfection I do try to be close enough and to allow room to work with. As such have one other blank to cut. But...

Do I try and offset them to cut two more blanks, or..
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02151_zps1dedac19.jpg)

Just cut one for my main knife and hope it works out better. May end up having to buy a hacksaw thin wood cutting blade. Hate not having a shop to work in. Did not think this was going to be so complicated. :ahhh
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02153_zps5751c48d.jpg)
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 11, 2013, 01:07:17 PM: Took some strips of wood out of a square left-over block, and used Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Glue to stick them on those bare edges. Once that set to a handling state went ahead and added more glue, pressing it into the corners and gaps with a small flat screwdriver. Followed by silk oak sawdust squeezed into the glue.

Will let those sit till some time tomorrow and work them down. Not fond of doing it this way but it should work. Is how I repaired chips in wooden boomerangs. Since the scale parts are on the bottom and on the edge it shouldn't show up.

Undecided as whether to do the same with the other scales, or cut a new set allowing plenty of room to work. If I do cut another set there will be working room and then some.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 11, 2013, 11:25:24 PM: After getting some rest went searching for a C clamp. Luckily found a framing clamp, which is better. The gluing process is going to take a full day for drying time. Since the edges will be filed down anyhow, this extra strip laminate should blend in - depending upon the grain.

Had a 3" block of spare material I have been using to cut strips from. Using Elmer's Carpenter wood glue I added strips to the edges, then clamped them down firmly.

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02162_zps1cc36437.jpg)

Adding glue, then clamping
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02163_zps6d3aa483.jpg)

Waited for the glue to set some before adding more glue along the corner. Pushed the glue into the corner crevice with a small screwdriver. Covered with sawdust, pressed in firmly with thumb. Brushed off excess sawdust for the remaining strips.
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02164_zps0284adef.jpg)

Then wait 8 to 12 hours for drying time. :D Will take this extra material off with a Dremel sandpaper roll, then flatten the final amount down with a crosscut file before proceeding.
Title: Reprofiled Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 12, 2013, 09:39:45 AM: Added the strips, on the first set of scales that I am using for practice. Filed and sanded them down. Starting to realize I should replace my work desk some day... only had it since... mid 90's. :D

Last I left with some rather hairy scales and a frame clamp. Those scales are still drying, and working with these to see how the wood works. Dremel really chews through it, yet by hand it takes a bit of work. Been using the Leatherman Rebar saw & file through most of this project.

Here is a before and after photo of the scales.
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02169_zps10872b23.jpg)
Didn't take photo on mouse-pad so won't have to clean out the artifacts again.

This scale fit like a glove on my Climber, and used it to pose in the photos. Here's a view from the other side of the wood scale. The 3/32" of bare metal is no longer showing, and cannot see the glued strips either. :D

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02168_zps3d0d6d07.jpg)

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02167_zpscbd744c8.jpg)

Now from the other side. Only showing this scale, the next set of photo(s) may be the inlay if I try it. Waiting on the materials as I don't want to mess with that icky dye substance. It gums up my files and sand paper.

Am concerned about one report of the tagua nut as vegetable ivory. Heard that it can deteriorate or pop out after a year. Don't want to keep in a wet environment either as it is biodegradable.

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02166_zps56adaa08.jpg)

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02165_zps601c13be.jpg)

Might be a few days before the next post as the plain tagua nuts have not arrived, nor the magnets. And the Tung oil was just ordered last night. The nut pieces left DUNELLEN, NJ on the 9th and claim they will be in Boise, ID today. If so, might tackle that ivory part next sooner.

Anyone have a good and simple Spartan helmet inlay design to share? Would be the cat's whiskers for the scale. :D

(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/207/8/a/This_is_sparta_and_glutony_by_Pablocomics.gif)
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 13, 2013, 03:59:57 AM: Worked on a small Spartan like helm using the red dyed tagua nut, scraping out a hole, then... *** SNAP! *** Don't have the room or tools to work on something so small, and so brittle. Figured the nut would have been stiffer than it is.
Glued it onto some backing to work with and broke another piece. Am taking it as an omen and not pursuing inlays with tagua nut any further. Maybe if I had some thin synthetic material to work with, or metal.

So going to stick with just the wood scales.

Attached was the idea was going with. The yellow was when had it glued to cardboard hoping to save it. It broke again since then and don't have the patience for it.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 13, 2013, 01:20:26 PM: Got creative again tonight with the first set of scales for the Spartan. No magnets or tung oil to finish it, so final sanding and preparation for another day. Must remember to put the pin channel in too.

Used the Leatherman Charge TTi's file & Rebar Saw, and a 3/32" drill bit to gain some depth. Things are tight in there! Had to take it slow and easy.
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02179_zpsca9f1de0.jpg)

Showing the channels, done by hand.
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02189_zpsbc5150a1.jpg)

Tools laying in channels. Notched out the plastic ^ on the toothpick too. :D
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02186_zps4e0ac714.jpg)

Tweezers side. Too much spring to slide them under the scales.
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02185_zps1dae5ee9.jpg)

Corkscrew side with tools slid in.
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02182_zps77a6f9c4.jpg)

Once I get more materials in will make an update. Since am working with wood I had ordered 1.5mm x 2.mm flat round magnets to hold the tools in better. May go ahead and start the 2nd set for the Climber one of these nights.

Debating on how to seal the inner scale sides to allow me to apply epoxy to the bolts. If am going to use oil, would probably need to pick up some sort of sealant, right?
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: PTRSAK on February 13, 2013, 09:51:30 PM: try mixing up a little of your epoxy and thin it with some metho or rubbing alcohol, not too much, just enough to make it runny so you can paint it on.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 13, 2013, 11:15:46 PM: Quote from: PTRSAK on February 13, 2013, 09:51:30 PM
try mixing up a little of your epoxy and thin it with some metho or rubbing alcohol, not too much, just enough to make it runny so you can paint it on.

Awesome idea! Wouldn't of thought about that.

Someone posted some feedback on Dremel's facebook page. These look nice but think am going to pass on them for now. The information might help others.

Lee Valley - Carbide Burr Set, Set of 8 (http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=31024&cat=1%2C130%2C43409)
These eight small carbide burrs can be used on any steel, steel alloy, or non-ferrous metal.
Useful for detail work on hardwoods, tagua, bone, etc. 3/32" shanks. 1-3/4" long.
(http://www.leevalley.com/en/images/item/woodworking/carving/78j0702g1a.jpg)
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 15, 2013, 01:06:01 AM: The miniature neodymium magnets arrived!! The shipper sent 60 of the lil' buggers! :mail:
Along with some natural Tagua Nut. Think the vegetable ivory will be too pale for the Silk Oak wood am using though. May have to stash them for another time, or find a home for them. :D

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02197_zps9a424674.jpg)

Now the fun begins. Hopefully the 100% Tung Oil will arrive by the weekend.

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Xemoticon/hmm.gif) Oh, after measuring the scales, seems the second set is at 4mm. That's going to be a close call to sneak a pen slot in since a pen is 2.5 mm thick. Will see. The grain is more attractive than my first set too.

For future reference:
Since the polarity is across the flat surface of a magnet, keep the width down to 2mm or less. 3mm wide means a 3mm deep hole into the scale material if you want a specific polarity.
To maneuver the magnet use the end of a straight pin or a fine finishing nail. File the head to a more flat surface if needed, as straight pins have a ^ type of head.
Title: Seriously Considering Going Thicker
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 15, 2013, 06:52:41 AM: Fist set of scales are about done past sealing and finishing, but I am not satisfied with them being so thin. Both scales are around 4.5mm to 5mm. The pen is really close to the surface, can feel the pressure when working that channel. Feeling the file is not a good sign. There should be more space there.
However the tweezers side is about good on space. But want to keep both scales the same width, yet don't want a fat knife either. What to do...

Other scales are 5mm thick on average, which are ready to be worked out. this means the top & bottom of one scale would be very light sanding if am going to make the clearance.
Another option would be is to kick the toothpick out and just go with tweezers on one scale, pen on the other scale. May go with that and see how it holds up.

Blank is 11mm thick. Have no mechanical means of reducing the width to 7mm.

What the issue was trying to save the wood by trying to get two sets of scales out it. Giving the saw blade width that cut things way too close. Ended up having to add side strips. Adding material to the sides was not hard, but it still entailed using glue.
Width on the other hand. 11mm, cut in half, 1mm thick saw blade, gave 5mm. Once on starts flattening and sanding that 5mm turned to near 4mm, and thus there's just not enough material to last years down the road. One bad fall would result in a cracked scale.

Corkscrew is 7.5mm wide. From the spacer to the outside it is 4.5mm. Shouldn't the scale should be at least 4.5mm to match, or 5mm?

Anyone have a 91mm Plus scale laying around, and could measure it's average thickness for me?

have found out the neodymium magnets can be files down with a diamond file. :D
Title: Current progress - 1st set
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 15, 2013, 07:09:47 AM: Showing the current status of the first set of 91mm Plus 'Silk Oak' scales, average 4.5mm thickness.

Top View
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02199_zpsc55d8f89.jpg)

Inside Overview
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02200_zps63c26284.jpg)

Inside - Low Profile
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02202_zpsbe2360d7.jpg)
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: PTRSAK on February 15, 2013, 08:09:35 AM: Basic shape roughed in. Burled Yellow Box. (not oiled yet, just a bit of water on them to show the grain)
These are for a sportsman/tourist/small-tinker, not decided which they are going on yet.

Got these and another pair out of one slab with enough to do several 58mms as well.
Will cut some 91mm scales out of the other slab.

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/Peter_Thorpe/20130215_165307_zpsbf51c57d.jpg)
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 15, 2013, 08:19:09 AM: How thick are your scales?
Title: Smurfed up other set of scales, channeling the scale tools.
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 15, 2013, 01:33:10 PM: Going to bed aggravated. The second set was too thin. Have another 11m blank that am going to stagger cut and somehow take down 4mm while working with it. So smurfin' let-down, broke the scales.

The diagonal pen idea was working out but it also made the 4mm scale too weak. 1.5 mm is not enough room for structural integrity.

RIP secondary set.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Wootz on February 15, 2013, 04:40:55 PM: Not sure if it is to any use right now, but I glue the scales on very rough shaped. Don't bother getting the outer shape exact at this point. Just the rivet holes need to be precise. I'm leaving 1 or 2 mm wood around the edges and plenty thick. Once the epoxy is set start shaping the scales from coarse to fine. I do leave the T&T out, making it an even simpler job.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 16, 2013, 06:22:10 AM: Quote from: Wootz on February 15, 2013, 04:40:55 PM
Not sure if it is to any use right now, but I glue the scales on very rough shaped. Don't bother getting the outer shape exact at this point. Just the rivet holes need to be precise. I'm leaving 1 or 2 mm wood around the edges and plenty thick. Once the epoxy is set start shaping the scales from coarse to fine. I do leave the T&T out, making it an even simpler job.

Your idea helped. Also one fellow at Home Depot suggested the idea I had in mind to use, was to cut what was needed first the size it down.

Had set the holes, whacked the raw scales in with a light-weight rubber mallet, shaped them from a raw 11mm blank. Added channels to fit the scale tools, got them within tolerance.
Looked around the tool, decided on 7mm thickness. Cut small sections with a coping saw, and a my Charge TTi's S30v blade for slicing the sections off from the end to the other. Shaped it down with a Dremel sand roller.
Mounted them on the Climber again, decided to take the middle down to 6mm, giving a small flat face on the side. Sanded down that down, filled some holes. Waiting for them to cure in before I proceed further.

Been using the small driver on a Squirt S4 as a chisel to cut square holes for the magnets. Then have to epoxy them in. Haven't put the pin in yet.

Was thinking of heating another pin and pressure burn a hole through into the wood. Not sure how this will work. Cutting a thin pin channel on the other scales was iffy. If there is the slightest gap between the scale & knife the pin just will not doesn't cooperate.
Could cut a deeper channel, then glue a toothpick or sliver of scrap wood over the back & sand it down. This reverse frame idea might work better. Least it looks good on paper. :D
Title: Rustic Wood Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 16, 2013, 06:32:50 AM: Something I was thinking about. Keep seeing these branches/trunks of wood with their bark still attached to furniture, cabinets, even house trim. The knots, limbs, and other imperfections are only cut off. They are shaped to remove rough edges, looking like either a clean slice with rounded corners or chopped segments.

People buy this rustic look. Why not get some limbs and make rustic wood knife handles too? Am sure someone's already down that to other fixed knives, but not seen a SAK handle like that yet. Would definitely make for a unique look - maybe for display or gift.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Wootz on February 16, 2013, 10:49:15 AM: You want a comfortable grip, no limbs sticking out for me.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 16, 2013, 12:29:23 PM: Quote from: Wootz on February 16, 2013, 10:49:15 AM
You want a comfortable grip, no limbs sticking out for me.

Oh, I agree. Get a load of these bed posts. /shakes head

(http://common4.csnimages.com/lf/49/hash/4844/2386433/1/Traditional+Cedar+Log+Twig+Style+Bed.jpg)

Cut a pin groove, flipped a blade over on the spine, skived that out slowly. Wished could somehow secure the pin to staying in the groove I cut for it. Put a magnet, north facing towards the pin, and have it setting up in the clamp.
Have a magnet in the tweezers, and another at the head of the pen channel. They are tiny lil' rascals and are only powerful at close proximity. So they have to be touching or close to hold any metal in the grooves.

Was crazy, the first scales I made are at 4mm and are waiting for the tung oil to arrive. The third set is at 6mm, and gluing magnets in and touching up some areas.

Not sure what else to use to seal the wood. Tried mixing the gel epoxy, but that stuff doesn't come out of the tubes evenly. Was no individual epoxy tubes available. All were the double-chambered one-piece syringes. One comes out easy and too much, the other sits there then comes out at once - in small amount. Cut it with nail polish remover (acetone). It is still drying.
Our area seriously lack a hobby & craft shop.

Picked up this Locktite Gel epoxy for what it bonds to. 6 minute setup though. :whistle:
(http://www.loctiteproducts.com/img/products/big/epxy_gel_s.png)
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 17, 2013, 09:54:00 AM: Hate mixing epoxy. Rarely do I actually get the right mixture to where it sets up like it should. Have a sealant layer on the 3rd set of scales. Had to redo the sealant mixture on the 1st set as the epoxy was still tacky after 8 hours.

Note: Looks like it is setting up. :whew:

The 1st set is ready for the tung oil, and the 2nd will be ready if this sealant mixture sets up.

Black spots are the teeny neodymium magnets. May have to add a secondary south-touching magnet for the pin groove since was unable to burn a straight groove through the wood, and that testing is showing the pin wants to launch upwards. If there's a slight gap between the scale and the knife, that will cause issues. Better to get it right the first time.

3rd set of scales is 6mm.
Title: Tung Oil Finish
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 17, 2013, 10:03:07 AM: Now I haven't used tung oil in ages. :think:

Guess the Tung oil application is going to take days, or a week. :ahhh

Woodworking : How to Apply Tung Oil to Wood (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqKzUGkiue0#ws)
Title: Oil Finishes: History and Use
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 17, 2013, 01:15:00 PM: Read an interesting article on oil finishes, and how various finished came about, were blended, other forms that came into play, and label trickery. Oil Finishes: Their History and Use (http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/finishing/oil-finishes-their-history-and-use)

It is a very good read. :2tu:
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Wootz on February 17, 2013, 01:55:03 PM: There's much to discover on this board, grasshopper. :D

http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,42415.0.html
Title: Mount then Oil, or Oil then Mount???
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 19, 2013, 02:57:05 AM: Scales look good to go. Had a few minor finishing repairs, mostly to the sidewall of the mounting hole that lies between the toothpick & pen grooves. Applied two thin coats of epoxy thinned down with rubbing alcohol to seal the wood. Removed the epoxy from the mounting holes before it fully cured.

Hoping I can get an equal amount of epoxy mix to mount the scales on. Which color/half of the epoxy should get the most of, since they do not always come out equally: white or the colored-yellow gel? Doesn't say which one is the hardener. Don't want a runny mix. :ahhh

In the past, many many years ago, had mixed a tad more hardener to get a firmer grip. So do not like mixing as if not enough of one or the other then it never hardens. Should of looked elsewhere and picked up separate tubes instead of a syringe container.

Should I epoxy the scales on first, or does it matter if I oil them up before application? Reason why I ask is the first coat of oil is suggested to keep applying till the wood soaks up all it can hold. Then buff out the risen wood particles and dried finish before applying a second coat. Was told this could take up to five subsequent thin coats to get the maximum benefit from the Tung oil.
Title: Both sets 1 & 3 ready for finishing
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 19, 2013, 05:45:40 AM: Both sets 1 & 3 are ready for the finishing process. First set on the Spartan is at 4mm, 3rd set on the Climber at 6mm. :D

Corkscrew side
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02218_zpsdbc7166c.jpg)

Awl side
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02220_zps8c8e9cc5.jpg)

Edit: The texture on my very first set looks terrific! Am anxious to see how the Tung oil will look on them. :D
Title: Surprise! New feature to add. ;D
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 21, 2013, 08:02:11 AM: In the dunny (great place to multitask at) looking at the transparent blue sapphire scales of my Climber, and how I had abused them in such a short time. Looked at the plain scale and noticed that Victorinox had polished their name on the inside, left most everything else dulled down.
Looked at a recess of a possible button area, a + area, and then a tiny bit of shiny caught the light. Pulled out the short blade, and looky at what I got!

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02230_zpsdb78a286.jpg)

Looks like I get to add a small metal Victorinox shield logo in my knife handle now. :D

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02229_zps05f548b0.jpg)

Too bad it is so thin. Thought it might make for a neat wood burning emblem maker. Only soldering iron I have is a portable butane one with a catalyst chamber. A Rat Shack version.

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/tools/DSC02233_zps3b1ba7dd.jpg)

So I got a little surprise this evening. The one time wishing I had a small exact-o knife set. :rofl:
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 21, 2013, 08:42:04 AM: Sharpened up the Leatherman Squirt blade. Centered the logo width wise, eyeballed the position. Holding it down with a finger, traced a light pencil line around it. Carved the area down some. Sanded in the middle somewhat. Checked the fitting again.

Mixed up some epoxy, and put it in the recessed cavity. Set the logo inside, then added just a thin layer of more epoxy. Checked it again to be sure not sticking up anywhere. Pressed down on major points with a straight pin.

Looks good. Letting it dry. Tung oil will saturate behind the wood, so should still be good there. This is going to be one sexy SAK scale! :D

Edit: After the epoxy set to a hold state, yet still flexible, went and trimmed off the excess epoxy with a small knife. Sanded the area around the epoxy setting. Might of set it in a tad deeper than needed, but I'm not a youngster with eagle eyes and the hands of a surgeon - and I'm working with (http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Xemoticon/caveman_zpseb288bbe.gif) tools.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 22, 2013, 02:22:04 AM: The 2 oz. bottle of 100% Tung came in from Amazon / Lombardi's Woodworking today. :mail:

Got a good coat on the Spartan I got from Lowtech. Rubbed it in good, then wiped off after about 30 minutes per the instructions on the bottle. Smells almost like popcorn, even made me hungry working it in.

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02248_zpse64c7a5b.jpg)

Rubbed a light layer on the insides of my Climber's scales. They will set for 24+ hours before I epoxy them on. Wanted to get some oil in the groove channels before gluing them on. (http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Xemoticon/Dance_til_ya_can__t_no_moe_by_de_Mote.gif) Am anxious to get the scales on and oiled in.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 23, 2013, 09:16:26 AM: Was waiting for some walnut scales to come in before epoxying the last set of Australian Silky Oak on.

With the weather being the way it is, couldn't wait much longer. One scale developed a workable warp and the other had a noticeable gap. Filed them down and went ahead and epoxied them the scales on. They are clamped in and drying between two cedar wood scraps & a sock.

More solid wood scales would not have such a tendency to warp as compared to scales that are channeled out for tools. The more wood removed the easier a warp can set in.
We had fair weather, then it turned more humid with the rain. And a strong the cold front is coming in. So rather than deal with warps it was time to get them epoxied and and oiled up.

After setting the scales on, gave them and even clamping all around. Oiled up the scale tools I had made channels for (pin, pen, toothpick, & tweezers) with a Teflon based lubricant. Ran them in and out a few times, wiped them off, and inserted the tool back into the scales.
In case some epoxy got squeezed out the tools would be safe from being stuck. In turn the tools are also inside to help keep any epoxy at bay.

The first set of scales got their second coat of Tung oil this evening. They feel as smooth as silk too. :D

May have to pick up a Spartan, or a used SAK, to fit the walnut scales coming in from Woodman. I waited, but the weather forced my hand.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: enki_ck on February 23, 2013, 12:09:18 PM: Nice progress pics. :tu:
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 23, 2013, 01:25:57 PM: Quote from: enki_ck on February 23, 2013, 12:09:18 PM
Nice progress pics. :tu:

Figured my notes, good and/or bad, might help others.
Y'all were of immense help too, and I won't forget that. ;)
If I could afford it, would buy everyone a pizza and a 6 pack of Foster's oil cans for their help.

Perhaps once I get this process down better, find a good user SAK, will have a contest for those that offered their help their help. Would help make up for being such a pest. :D As it stands now my work and ideas are amateurist at best. Have learned a lot, but I want to make it right - and done right.

Biggest issue I have is the accurate placement of the pin holes. Want to get some liners or solid template.

Another idea I had was to glue layer a thin (0.5 mm) composite material on the underside before ever touching the underside. This is to alleviate the scooping that occurs when filing & sanding.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 24, 2013, 12:17:17 AM: These sets of scales fit on really well. Had to do some minor fitting around the edges. None of the channel grooves had issues, Thank God. More light sanding, that in turn dulled the clear Vic logo (epoxied) window inlay. Wished the logo inlay would have come out better. Oh well.

Got the first coat in on these, lets them soak in till the oil started to turn, then wiped it off. For some reason the thinner scales felt better after their first application. These felt more rough textured. Might been due to more oil being soaked up.

One other thing I have noticed since owning SAK is that I barely have any useable finger & thumb nails. Chipped my right hand's thumb nails again fanning the blades for the photographs.

Side by Side
• Photos are of different sizes. Was looking for ambiance not comparative size.
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02263_zps46cbf84e.jpg)

Edge to Edge
• To show the 6mm layers. More beefier. :D
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02268_zps9c4a59ae.jpg)

Light Play effects
• Each side differs in looks as Australian Silky Oak grain grows in two different directions at once.

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02258_zps25e0f12a.jpg)

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02257_zps64bbfb02.jpg)

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02254_zps06849b25.jpg)

(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Handcrafts/Knife%20Handles/DSC02252_zps352aa108.jpg)

Enjoy!

End Notes:
• Looks like one scale is a tad thicker. Hmm. :think: :rofl:
• Oh, and the small round spots on the scales was where I drilled a bit too deep and sanded down over said holes. Mixed some glue with sawdust to fill these holes. Will have to consider getting a Dremel Workstation (http://www.amazon.com/Dremel-220-01-Rotary-Tool-Station/dp/B00068P48O) for drilling more accurately. /sigh
• This was my personal knife so ~~near~~ perfection was not needed.
• My first set actually turned out better me thinks. :tu: But the scale tools hide & fit better on these. Maybe 4.5mm to 5mm is what to shoot for in thickness?
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 24, 2013, 01:13:40 AM: WoodMan's laser cut walnut scales arrived today. Figured right after I glued mine on they would get here. Will have to go find a SAK somewhere to put these on to tease the forum with. :D
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: PTRSAK on February 27, 2013, 07:12:00 AM: more timber fromm the same supplier... Brown Mallee Burl

I am seriously looking forward to getting a SAK scaled in this.

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/Peter_Thorpe/20130227_160004_zps75dd545d.jpg)
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 27, 2013, 07:44:32 AM: Am considering ordering more silky oak, as I want a pair of chopsticks out of that wood. And want to use tung oil to finish them. Favorite pair of chopsticks is 9.5" long, Thai style in rosewood, tapered down to 3mm. Only thing is I have no wood lathe/turner.

Have a few sets, but when they taper to 4+ mm that is too thick and awkward for me to use. Feels like I am using pencils (eraser end) for eating utensils.

Top is my favorite set. Below them are backups with an ornate twist carving.
(http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab66/Xelkos/Vittles/DSC02286_zpsaae5119f.jpg)

Quote from: PTRSAK on February 27, 2013, 07:12:00 AM
more timber fromm the same supplier... Brown Mallee Burl

I am seriously looking forward to getting a SAK scaled in this.

(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/Peter_Thorpe/20130227_160004_zps75dd545d.jpg)

Interesting wood. Wonder how Zebra wood is? Seems to me when carving the edge it really brings out the wood effects more.

Saw an outfit here in the states with several wood samples perfect for SAK scales, but the way they had cut the wood left a lot to be desired. Was more like a package of 'Oops cuts'.

Turning Timbers (http://myworld.ebay.com/australianturningtimbers/&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2754) seems to know how to cut the wood the correct way! :tu:
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on February 27, 2013, 08:04:28 AM: Australian Turning Timbers (http://myworld.ebay.com/australianturningtimbers/) has some attractive blanks up again. If only had more money to work with, and a shop. Might have to wait till Spring so can carve outside.

Coolabah Burl
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Bookmatched-Australian-Coolabah-Burl-Wood-Knife-Scales-x-2-135mm-x-35mm-x-10mm-/00/s/Mjk4WDU2MQ==/$T2eC16FHJHQE9nzEyG4nBQUEFn%29SJg~~60_3.JPG)

Birdseye Red Gum
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Bookmatched-Birdseye-Australian-Red-Gum-Wood-Knife-Scales-x-2-/00/s/MzM4WDU2Nw==/$%28KGrHqJHJC4F!l3j%292BSBQS+tFg!-w~~60_3.JPG)

African Wenge
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/African-Wenge-Wood-Knife-Scales-x-2-140mm-x-40mm-x-10mm-Bookmatched-/00/s/MzMwWDU1NA==/$%28KGrHqZHJDYFCD!HlJpZBQkgMYeh2g~~60_3.JPG)

Brush Box
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Australian-Brush-Box-Wood-Knife-Scales-138mm-x-38mm-x-10mm-Bookmatched-/00/s/MzE3WDU2MA==/$T2eC16hHJIkE9qU3l4RbBQZRKsFvbw~~60_3.JPG)

Fiddleback Queensland Narrow Leaf Wattle - Am liking this one! :tu:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Fiddleback-Queensland-Narrow-Leaf-Wattle-Wood-Knife-Scales-/00/s/MzE4WDQ4Ng==/$%28KGrHqZHJCYF!Io-260mBQcPWzpmM!~~60_12.JPG)

Lots more.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on March 02, 2013, 09:01:48 AM: Heh, now I want to carve a small eating spoon from wood. Shouldn't be too hard, right? :whistle:
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on July 27, 2016, 06:26:11 AM: Had to, was my post anyhow. :D

Now if I could remember where I put the first SAK post where the forum helped me for the most part, and I decided on a Climber.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: zoidberg on July 27, 2016, 06:36:07 AM: :nanadance:
Title: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: jaya_man on July 27, 2016, 06:56:11 AM: Quote from: Outback in Idaho on January 30, 2013, 12:57:10 AM
For the pin, having a recent issue with the pin getting caught on the corkscrew, had come up with the idea of putting a small magnet into the handle. This would also help keep the pin magnetized & held into place since my Climber has aluminum scales.

Debating between these two, unless someone else has another option. Have tried the flexible magnet inside the current plastic scale and it just does not do a thing. Not enough magnetic power there.

15 PC Neodymium Magnets N42 Dia 2X2mm Rare Earth NdFeB Magnets (http://www.amazon.com/Neodymium-Magnets-2X2mm-Earth-NdFeB/dp/B000UCQMA0/ref=sr_1_69?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1359503131&sr=1-69)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41W6ApohcwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

50 Pieces N42 Neodymium Magnets Dia 3mm x 1.5mm Thick (http://www.amazon.com/Pieces-Neodymium-Magnets-1-5mm-Thick/dp/B000TKEXLI/ref=sr_1_45?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1359503085&sr=1-45)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31RhcOATH3L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)

Comments, suggestions, or... :pommel: ?
I know this post had been out for a while now, but I had just come across this. Not to sure If it has been answered as well.

A friend of mine suggested if the straight pin comes loose, try applying a bit of silicone sealant in the hole. So I tried and walah, mo more loose straight pins...

:cheers:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on July 27, 2016, 10:12:31 AM: The idea of the magnets was to a polarity on the needle so it would point north if ever needed. The magnets were a dickens to get in there and aligned.

As much effort I went through to get the needle aligned North and South something changed... the North end was supposed to be the pointed end. I quadruple checked and verified the magnet placement was correct. But... when I tested it, the head of the pin became North, not the prickly end. Not sure what changed its polarity there. :think:
The pin doesn't slide out on its own, one needs to use their fingernail.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: jaya_man on July 27, 2016, 10:13:31 AM: Quote from: Outback in Idaho on July 27, 2016, 10:12:31 AM
The idea of the magnets was to a polarity on the needle so it would point north if ever needed. The magnets were a dickens to get in there and aligned.

As much effort I went through to get the needle aligned North and South something changed... the North end was supposed to be the pointed end. I quadruple checked and verified the magnet placement was correct. But... when I tested it, the head of the pin became North, not the prickly end. Not sure what changed its polarity there. :think:
The pin doesn't slide out on its own, one needs to use their fingernail.
Ah... Interesting...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: Outback in Idaho on July 27, 2016, 10:17:38 AM: If I had it to do all over again, I'd just get some silky oak blanks cut like what WoodMan did, then cut the slots out by hand or something, and epoxy it back on and forego the magnets. I don't have the materials to cut scales, but I can order the wood from Australia or over here in the USA. Could have to get another Vic emblem too and try a different method of securing it in there.

Might give it a go some day - or not.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: maxoom on August 09, 2018, 05:29:02 AM: Hi, new to this site. maybe I can help out with ANY CAD files you need. I'm a Mechanical Designer (Engineer). I have exceptional knowledge in Solidworks and Pro Engineer (Creo). If someone has a good DXF or DWG file or can give me some dimensions I can model a 3D of the scales or whatever you want. Otherwise I will have to try and take apart a knife and measure the crap out of it.
Title: Re: Wanted: Detailed Diagram of the 91mm Plus Scales
Post by: lichan on August 09, 2018, 05:50:41 PM: 3D STL files for 58 and 91 mm scales are available for downloading on Thingiverse.com.