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Non Tool Forum => The Break Room => Topic started by: Gerhard Gerber on July 04, 2018, 09:24:22 AM

Title: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 04, 2018, 09:24:22 AM
Say what you will about evil big brother google, and specifically youtube, some of the suggested videos end up being spot-on.

Joe Rogan videos kept popping up when I started following MMA, but the guests he has on his podcasts and the topics are just fascinating.....

I can't remember the guest, but he's testing an immune suppressor used for organ transplant patients on himself.  One thing he said really stuck with me, I'm paraphrasing - the only proven life extending technique we know of today is fasting....

Last night I watched this:  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7813060/

This comes on top of a conversation with a good friend on Friday afternoon, their 5 year old son who was diagnosed with diabetes age 3.  He was recently diagnosed with another condition that leaves him completely gluten intolerant.

Based on my own success with a LCHF diet I often asked him why they don't try it, to be frank his answer always pissed me off because it amounted to "we've been dealing with this for years and we know best".......

Strange thing is, with the forced diet change his sugar levels are stable throughout the day...........  :whistle:

Do yourself a favour and watch the docu........I've been thinking about this for a while and now I'm convinced this is the next step towards a healthier life, definitely would eliminate the problems I create for myself at least once a week  :facepalm:

I have two major problems........1) will have to delay my first coffee by 2-3 hours..........2) will have to stop drinking beer before I even have a proper buzz on.  :oops:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: lister on July 04, 2018, 01:10:50 PM
Fasting is a proven technique of extending life expectancy in mice. For humans we just don't know yet if it works (at least the last time I checked which was not that long ago). We know that it has some health benefits in humans. The problem is that we live so long that it takes quite some time to actually find out if fasting had any impact on the length of life. While mice live for 2-3 years so studies can be done fast.  :D
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 04, 2018, 02:45:55 PM
Granted  :salute:

Personally I'm not looking to extend my life time, no pension, no social security and a scary public health system.......will be working until I die even if I determine when that is  :whistle:

I wouldn't however mind improving my day to day life, putting down cigarettes 6 years ago was one step, loosing 40kg's on LCHF was a next step....only gained back 10kg and relatively stable.

Problem is I'm still too heavy, still eat too much, and I tend to be hangry in the mornings......

My past experiences leads me to believe the 2 week transition period they mention might be horrible, but what follows seems very worthwhile.

Quote
While mice live for 2-3 years so studies can be done fast.


Clearly you haven't watched it, but do........I found the part about Sweden in the 70's interesting.....  :whistle:

Also fascinating is their explanation for the American obesity crisis......makes a lot of sense....

And now for a teaser.....the good news is the 3rd test group of mice they mention  :cheers:   
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: lister on July 04, 2018, 03:22:15 PM
Nope, I didn't watch the movie yet. But I did read about fasting (try to follow hacker news and miss the post about fasting...  :D). The interesting thing is that even one day fasting a month shows positive effects on health. And there were some studies done that indicate that for many people who struggle to loose weight one day a week of fasting without limiting their food intake on other days led to them loosing weight.

But as always just because someone did a study does not mean that the results are 100% right. Biology is a messy and hard area of study.  :D
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Don Pablo on July 04, 2018, 03:29:48 PM
Question, speaking as someone who should ideally gain a little weight and doesn't know anything about fasting, do any of its potential benefits apply to me?
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: pfrsantos on July 04, 2018, 04:06:15 PM
Question, speaking as someone who should ideally gain a little weight and doesn't know anything about fasting, do any of its potential benefits apply to me?

Do the exact opposite of what they show in the movie...

 :pok: :pok:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 04, 2018, 04:06:21 PM
Question, speaking as someone who should ideally gain a little weight and doesn't know anything about fasting, do any of its potential benefits apply to me?

not really, at this age,  :twak:
glucose and blood sugar control, hormone production, lower cholesterol levels, hunger control and management, cellular renovation etc. are not concerns at your age and given your body profile and characteristics.

In fact, it could very well be counterproductive as at this age you need stable energy input for proper body growth and brain function, also the effects of fasting on muscle tissue depletion and destruction and its effects on cell growth, hormone reguation in young bodies and proper growth and developemnt of tissues and organs have not been studied enough,

especially on subjects of your age  :ahhh

Even though Dr.Fung and others seem to believe that growth hormone production is enhanced during fasting and muscle tissue creation is in fact accelerated during these periods, their work and studies contradict those of others, and their conclusions do not agree with others from well known and reputable doctors and investigators  :salute:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: pfrsantos on July 04, 2018, 04:06:41 PM
Question, speaking as someone who should ideally gain a little weight and doesn't know anything about fasting, do any of its potential benefits apply to me?

Do the exact opposite of what they show in the movie...

 :pok: :pok:

That's what she said, too...

 :whistle:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: lister on July 04, 2018, 04:29:28 PM
What age? His profile clearly states that he is a 100 year old male!  :twak:

 :D
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: pfrsantos on July 04, 2018, 04:37:26 PM
What age? His profile clearly states that he is a 100 year old male!  :twak:

 :D

That's in dog years conversion...

 :pok: :pok:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: lister on July 04, 2018, 04:40:10 PM
What age? His profile clearly states that he is a 100 year old male!  :twak:

 :D

That's in dog years conversion...

 :pok: :pok:

For smurfs sake! Can we all agree to stop using all the weird measurement systems and stick to SI units?  :ahhh

 :D
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Don Pablo on July 04, 2018, 04:42:23 PM
Question, speaking as someone who should ideally gain a little weight and doesn't know anything about fasting, do any of its potential benefits apply to me?

not really, at this age,  :twak:
glucose and blood sugar control, hormone production, lower cholesterol levels, hunger control and management, cellular renovation etc. are not concerns at your age and given your body profile and characteristics.

In fact, it could very well be counterproductive as at this age you need stable energy input for proper body growth and brain function, also the effects of fasting on muscle tissue depletion and destruction and its effects on cell growth, hormone reguation in young bodies and proper growth and developemnt of tissues and organs have not been studied enough,

especially on subjects of your age  :ahhh

Even though Dr.Fung and others seem to believe that growth hormone production is enhanced during fasting and muscle tissue creation is in fact accelerated during these periods, their work and studies contradict those of others, and their conclusions do not agree with others from well known and reputable doctors and investigators  :salute:
Ah, ok.  :cheers:
I’ll just keep eating my vegetables then.... :tu:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Don Pablo on July 04, 2018, 04:47:44 PM
What age? His profile clearly states that he is a 100 year old male!  :twak:

 :D

That's in dog years conversion...

 :pok: :pok:

For smurfs sake! Can we all agree to stop using all the weird measurement systems and stick to SI units?  :ahhh

 :D
I’m approximately 5.7 x 108 seconds old, how’s that?
Or approximately 0.57 Gigaseconds, if you prefer.

:D
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Aloha on July 04, 2018, 04:50:17 PM
Increased life expectancy, not sure how that works or if thats possible.  I'm of the belief that quality of life or a healthy life can be had thru diet and exercise with out question.  Smoking, drinking, over eating, or low quality diet are just one part of a unhealthy life.  Lack of exercise and certainly an unhealthy mental/emotional life also needs to be factored in IMO.  With the variety of diets people partake in I'm often skeptical of any real lasting change.  I've always been of the mindset it needs to be a lifestyle change not just I'll quit eating bread, for example.     
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 05, 2018, 09:40:17 AM
Question, speaking as someone who should ideally gain a little weight and doesn't know anything about fasting, do any of its potential benefits apply to me?


not really, at this age,  :twak:
glucose and blood sugar control, hormone production, lower cholesterol levels, hunger control and management, cellular renovation etc. are not concerns at your age and given your body profile and characteristics.


What he said.......except I wish I'd made all the good changes MUCH younger..........

Increased life expectancy, not sure how that works or if thats possible.  I'm of the belief that quality of life or a healthy life can be had thru diet and exercise with out question.  Smoking, drinking, over eating, or low quality diet are just one part of a unhealthy life.  Lack of exercise and certainly an unhealthy mental/emotional life also needs to be factored in IMO.  With the variety of diets people partake in I'm often skeptical of any real lasting change.  I've always been of the mindset it needs to be a lifestyle change not just I'll quit eating bread, for example.     

They mentioned sleep and exercise almost as much as diet.......that's what I appreciate most, this is not a diet, this is a lifestyle.

I don't expect my later years to be comfortable.

I come from a long line of comfort eaters, and I want to break that chain, and not dig my grave with my teeth...  :salute:

 

Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 05, 2018, 10:39:52 AM
Slightly off topic, I found this talk fascinating http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018648768/dr-michael-mosley-on-gut-health .
I would look into gut health before I look at fasting.
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: pfrsantos on July 05, 2018, 11:38:25 AM
Slightly off topic, I found this talk fascinating http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018648768/dr-michael-mosley-on-gut-health .
I would look into gut health before I look at fasting.

Dude, you should go out, look at flowers, birds, small fluffy rodents... Trust me, that's way better than looking at guts (healthy or otherwise).

 :P :pok: :pok:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 05, 2018, 12:27:12 PM
Slightly off topic, I found this talk fascinating http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018648768/dr-michael-mosley-on-gut-health .
I would look into gut health before I look at fasting.

I joke, but it might be true....that some of my problems come from my mother not having milk when I was born.

I have a very sensitive stomach compared to my parents.......my dad could give a junkyard dog a go getting away with eating smurf.


For those that won't make the effort, they cover intermittent fasting, water fasting, religious fasting as well as eating disorders.

Relevant for me now is the first one, which simply entails not eating for 12-14 hours of each day.

They make a very good argument for this compared to current wisdom, but (I'm not) sorry to say everybody that sells themselves as dietitians etc lost my attention and respect after what I experienced changing to LCHF, which they largely discredit.....  :think:

Stress, drinking too much, eating too much and not nearly enough exercise......last check-up my sugar, cholesterol and blood pressure made the nurse ask my age......her reply was "very good...."

I firmly believe the best way to health is getting as close to the natural state of the human animal without technology and civilization.  Whole foods from the local environment with limited intake and a lot of activity.

I leave you with this  :cheers:
https://youtu.be/jqbGXl5lxEg
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 05, 2018, 01:58:55 PM
I am taking more notice of the gut health thing because it is backed by scientific evidence, not just a fad put forth by nutritionists.

Being born by Caesarian Section can be detrimental to your gut (and therefore your) health as mentioned in the interview.
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 05, 2018, 02:13:54 PM
I am taking more notice of the gut health thing because it is backed by scientific evidence, not just a fad put forth by nutritionists.


I won't go further into it because you can do your research,  :cheers:  but there are quite a few people and studies linking fasting with improved gut flora, growth of beneficial species of intestinal bacteria and larger, healthier bacteria communities related to intermittent fasting, complimented by an appropriate diet  :salute:


They make a very good argument for this compared to current wisdom, but (I'm not) sorry to say everybody that sells themselves as dietitians etc lost my attention and respect after what I experienced changing to LCHF, which they largely discredit.....  :think:




Gerhard, I suppose you've already read the, but for interesting reading on LCHF and keto, I can recommend:

- The Big Fat Surprise (Nina Teicholz)
- Why We Get Fat, and What to do About It (Gary Taubes)
- Keto Clarity (Jimmy Moore)

these three I enjoyed a lot and I would consider cornerstones of the Keto publications and books about Low Carb  :salute:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 05, 2018, 02:26:35 PM

Gerhard, I suppose you've already read the, but for interesting reading on LCHF and keto, I can recommend:

- The Big Fat Surprise (Nina Teicholz)
- Why We Get Fat, and What to do About It (Gary Taubes)
- Keto Clarity (Jimmy Moore)

these three I enjoyed a lot and I would consider cornerstones of the Keto publications and books about Low Carb  :salute:

No I haven't, but I'll look into them  :salute:

I know about LCHF thanks to South African Dr Tim Noakes who is literally being persecuted and prosecuted about advice he gave.

I'm not a religious follower or blessed with exceptional will power, so I just cut bread and sugar completely, followed by whatever food I found made me "sick".

Not sure how combining low carb and fasting will go, but I think fasting combined with some of the carbs that don't have negative effects (potatoes?) might be worth looking into....

 
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: lister on July 05, 2018, 04:26:28 PM

Gerhard, I suppose you've already read the, but for interesting reading on LCHF and keto, I can recommend:

- The Big Fat Surprise (Nina Teicholz)
- Why We Get Fat, and What to do About It (Gary Taubes)
- Keto Clarity (Jimmy Moore)

these three I enjoyed a lot and I would consider cornerstones of the Keto publications and books about Low Carb  :salute:

No I haven't, but I'll look into them  :salute:

I know about LCHF thanks to South African Dr Tim Noakes who is literally being persecuted and prosecuted about advice he gave.

I'm not a religious follower or blessed with exceptional will power, so I just cut bread and sugar completely, followed by whatever food I found made me "sick".

Not sure how combining low carb and fasting will go, but I think fasting combined with some of the carbs that don't have negative effects (potatoes?) might be worth looking into....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttMrSCnQnnk

 :rofl:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 05, 2018, 08:15:22 PM
a bit back on topic, i've been thinking to include a 36 hour fast every 2 weeks
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: lister on July 05, 2018, 10:29:04 PM
a bit back on topic, i've been thinking to include a 36 hour fast every 2 weeks

You call that being off topic? You do know this is the MTO right?  :D
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 05, 2018, 10:52:00 PM

Gerhard, I suppose you've already read the, but for interesting reading on LCHF and keto, I can recommend:

- The Big Fat Surprise (Nina Teicholz)
- Why We Get Fat, and What to do About It (Gary Taubes)
- Keto Clarity (Jimmy Moore)

these three I enjoyed a lot and I would consider cornerstones of the Keto publications and books about Low Carb  :salute:

No I haven't, but I'll look into them  :salute:

I know about LCHF thanks to South African Dr Tim Noakes who is literally being persecuted and prosecuted about advice he gave.

I'm not a religious follower or blessed with exceptional will power, so I just cut bread and sugar completely, followed by whatever food I found made me "sick".

Not sure how combining low carb and fasting will go, but I think fasting combined with some of the carbs that don't have negative effects (potatoes?) might be worth looking into....

well I am also a fan of Dr.Noakes and have seen many of his hour long speeches and conferences,
how could I forget him  :facepalm:

I believe he also starred in the "Running on Fat" documentary, a good introduction to LCHF and in a few others about the subject  :salute:

Many experts and nutritionists believe that the best diet to be on when starting fasting and committing to it is one in which blood sugar, hormone regulation (leptine/greline, insulin, etc.) and other blood markers are already stable and improved, and that a low carb diet is the most fitting for that.

If you're used to eat few carbs your insulin levels are much more better balanced  :) and thus your hunger level is more controllable,  :tu: natural and regulated. If you are already in a good, stable status then going into fasting and increasing the length of fasting periods will be much easier and require much less adaptation or your body than if you were on a high carb diet to begin with,

because in those diets insulin resistance is higher, hunger regulation is worse (thus the hunger pangs and blood sugar spikes and depletions every few hours) and cravings appear very quickly, because the body is already used to consuming sugars and "addicted" to carbs, and accustomed to using them as an energy source many times thought the day

Thus LCHF is not only the most appropriate diet to follow the months before starting fasting (your hormones are regulated, your body accustomed to absence of blood sugar spikes and carb digestion), but it is also arguably the best diet to be in while eating in between fasting periods (because a smaller rise in blood sugar and therefore a smaller drop in it afterwards will not cause the feeling of hunger and the need to eat again as quickly or as aggressively as if you ate carbs to break your fasting)

finally, no, potatoes are not a good carb in any way for this approach,

they're not good for LCHF because they are basically carbs, low fiber, have a big GI, a huge GL,  :ahhh and are quickly and easily digested and absorbed thus spiking your blood sugar immensely  :P

they're not good for fasting either because their easily absorbed carbs will lead to a rapid hormonal response (insulin secretion), they will be immediately digested and stored as fat if not burned,  :-\ and soon you'll be hungry again, your energy levels will drop,  :( and the few food you will have eaten in between fast will be barely nutritious (potatoes are really low in nutrients compared to almost any other vegetable, fruit, nightshade or plant  based food)  :facepalm:

Just my two cents on it,
there are hundreds of more nutritious, adequate and natural carbohydrates to eat instead of potatoes in between fasting periods, and in a LCHF diet  :tu:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 05, 2018, 11:07:10 PM
a bit back on topic, i've been thinking to include a 36 hour fast every 2 weeks

Oh sorry I just missed you post with my long rambling  :facepalm:

I was thinking of doing a similar thing and considered that if any of us want to try this out we could do a "Fasting Thread/Challenge" with the type of fasting more appropriate for each of us (24hrs, 2/7 a week, 72hrs, alternate day fasting [ADF] and so on) and posting on the thread for encouragement and support as well as telling the progress we have made, physically and/or mentally.  ;)

I am no stranger to fasting and I know I get angry and bad tempered after a while without eating  :whistle: (48hrs plus of fasting) so sharing my rambling  :rant: and thoughts with others in similar situations and challenges always helps  :tu:

I have seen this in other forums and tried it on some facebook groups (Intermittent Fasting [IF], Ketogenic Success, etc) and I find it an interesting and revealing experience and learning process about your own body  :salute:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: lister on July 06, 2018, 12:08:19 PM
a bit back on topic, i've been thinking to include a 36 hour fast every 2 weeks

How well do you think that will go with all the heavy training you do? When I skip meals my strength takes a hit really fast. And I don't even go as heavy as you do.  :ahhh

But then again I was always skinny so there is maybe a difference in how my body reacts to fasting. Though when I am a little older and the strategic energy reserves start to pile on I will also consider not eating every day because I think that will be easier for me compared to actually watching what I eat every single day...  :D
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: pfrsantos on July 06, 2018, 12:24:11 PM
a bit back on topic, i've been thinking to include a 36 hour fast every 2 weeks

Wish I had your willpower...

 :salute:

Show content
The best I can do is a 2 hour fast every 36 weeks!

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 06, 2018, 12:42:52 PM

finally, no, potatoes are not a good carb in any way for this approach,

they're not good for LCHF because they are basically carbs, low fiber, have a big GI, a huge GL,  :ahhh and are quickly and easily digested and absorbed thus spiking your blood sugar immensely  :P

they're not good for fasting either because their easily absorbed carbs will lead to a rapid hormonal response (insulin secretion), they will be immediately digested and stored as fat if not burned,  :-\ and soon you'll be hungry again, your energy levels will drop,  :( and the few food you will have eaten in between fast will be barely nutritious (potatoes are really low in nutrients compared to almost any other vegetable, fruit, nightshade or plant  based food)  :facepalm:

Just my two cents on it,
there are hundreds of more nutritious, adequate and natural carbohydrates to eat instead of potatoes in between fasting periods, and in a LCHF diet  :tu:

 :salute:

I just need to qualify......yes, nothing fattens me up like potato, but at least I don't have an allergic reaction to it like all things bread........

You hit the nail on the head......my one goal is to (further) even out the bloodsugar lows & spikes.

I suspected it's a leftover from when I still smoked (heavily for 17 years)......now I have a way to fix it.

a bit back on topic, i've been thinking to include a 36 hour fast every 2 weeks

Over a weekend?
Had the same thought.....but I honestly believe that would only be possible once I get away from this horrible suck-face corporate bs job  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 06, 2018, 12:44:22 PM

How well do you think that will go with all the heavy training you do? When I skip meals my strength takes a hit really fast. And I don't even go as heavy as you do.  :ahhh

But then again I was always skinny so there is maybe a difference in how my body reacts to fasting. Though when I am a little older and the strategic energy reserves start to pile on I will also consider not eating every day because I think that will be easier for me compared to actually watching what I eat every single day...  :D

According to them, once you've adapted you'll have that energy.....at the right time.
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 06, 2018, 12:50:00 PM
I just need to qualify......yes, nothing fattens me up like potato, but at least I don't have an allergic reaction to it like all things bread........
What about sourdough?
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: pfrsantos on July 06, 2018, 01:15:33 PM
I just need to qualify......yes, nothing fattens me up like potato, but at least I don't have an allergic reaction to it like all things bread........
What about sourdough?

Isn't that a town in England?!...

 :think: :think:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 06, 2018, 01:30:57 PM
No.
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 06, 2018, 02:45:15 PM
I just need to qualify......yes, nothing fattens me up like potato, but at least I don't have an allergic reaction to it like all things bread........
What about sourdough?

Same effect I believe......if I've got right where it's used.

We have a colonial German past, much German heritage still around including the bread  :facepalm:

I was a bread connoisseur till the very end......Graubrot, Landsbrot......all the good stuff  :cry:

Curse you intestines, burn in Hades I say!  :pok:
 :rofl:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 06, 2018, 02:48:04 PM
Guess I got it right https://sourdough.com/forum/graubrot
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 06, 2018, 02:53:08 PM
OK, I was just wondering since I have heard that sourdough is better for our gut and it is how bread used to be made (in a time when people didn't have problems with bread)... I need to read more about it....
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 06, 2018, 03:46:08 PM
I also wondered what changed, did people just eat muck less bread or has the grains used changed.....

Never got into it, I cheat very occasionally, and I mostly get away with it.

Recent exception was franchise pizza for lunch and a mid-afternoon cake & tea for my dad's birthday.........spare you the details but I paid for consuming all that flour.

A good, thin base pizza is a relatively risk free cheap......
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 06, 2018, 08:19:44 PM
a bit back on topic, i've been thinking to include a 36 hour fast every 2 weeks

Wish I had your willpower...

 :salute:

Show content
The best I can do is a 2 hour fast every 36 weeks!

 :facepalm:

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 06, 2018, 09:07:18 PM
so, we have no participants for a Fasting Thread?  :P
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 06, 2018, 09:48:08 PM
what no participants?
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 06, 2018, 11:05:59 PM
what no participants?

we can be two for the moment, and people can join  :pok:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: RF52 on July 07, 2018, 02:29:30 AM
so, we have no participants for a Fasting Thread? 
I think I am to skinny to participate in a fasting challenge!

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 07, 2018, 02:48:27 AM
I would rather concentrate on trying to eat the right foods than no food.  :whistle:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: powernoodle on July 07, 2018, 03:03:14 AM
so, we have no participants for a Fasting Thread?  :P

I would at least watch, and might participate.
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: eamo on July 07, 2018, 03:35:39 AM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 07, 2018, 03:37:32 AM
:popcorn:
That's not how it works eamo.  :twak:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: pfrsantos on July 07, 2018, 01:44:49 PM
:popcorn:
That's not how it works eamo.  :twak:

:rofl: :rofl:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 07, 2018, 01:51:13 PM
so, we have no participants for a Fasting Thread? 
I think I am to skinny to participate in a fasting challenge!

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

you can also eat as much as you do now or more, but limiting it to a time window every day (example, 14 hr fasting and 10 hr eating window)  :salute:

That is of course if you want to do it for any particular reason (improvement of blood lipids, better blood sugar control, diabetes/Alzheimer/CVD prevention, etc.) if not there is really no reason for it  :think:  not only losing weight is the goal of it, you can maintain or even gain on a fasting diet

I would rather concentrate on trying to eat the right foods than no food.  :whistle:

so skeptical, but be aware that most people who do fasting in one or another way tend to have better and healthier food choices in their eating periods,  ;)
and no one who advocates introducing fasting in your diet advocates eating junk food or unhealthy cr*p during the time you eat, for sure.

The idea is not to stop eating as you imly, but rather to eat during specific times and dedicate your time and effort to other things in between,
and also nourishing your body appropriately when it needs food, without excess or garbage calories and nutrients  :2tu:

so, we have no participants for a Fasting Thread?  :P

I would at least watch, and might participate.

well I am glad to hear that,
not that there's much to see because we won't post pics of how are we indulging ourselves in copious amount of delicious food,  :D
but rather the opposite, the thread would be to comment and post on our feelings and evolution during the search of the type of fasting that goes best with us,  :cheers:

and hopefully the improvement of our condition(s) if we are trying this approach to eating because of health reasons (pre-diabetes, overweight, bad cholesterol levels, irregular blood sugar control, cancer and chronic pain being the most common reasons)

I was thinking of something like that.

If we have interested people, I'd propose starting on the second half of July (Monday 16 or whereabouts) so that we have time to empty/organise/improve our fridges and food pantry, our kitchens and our food stashes)  and plan our initial approach to this.  :tu:

Myself I'd like to start with a 2/7 day approach (fasting for two days every week, being them alternate days or 48hrs in a row) which has worked for me in the past and then hopefully transition into a 72hrs fast approach every week, one of the other popular fasting methods

Fasting to me in that case would be only non-caloric liquids and beverages in between feeding periods (I've been good so far fasting with black coffee, tea, water and nothing else)  :)
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: dks on July 07, 2018, 02:13:49 PM
I assumed it was spelled with two "i" s..
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: RF52 on July 07, 2018, 02:38:17 PM
Haven't really thought about it, so maybe someday I'll try it.

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 07, 2018, 02:50:14 PM
so are we doing this?
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: dks on July 07, 2018, 03:01:17 PM
we? not
some? I have no idea
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 07, 2018, 03:06:00 PM
I assumed it was spelled with two "i" s..
Behave!  :twak:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: lister on July 07, 2018, 08:51:46 PM
we? not
some? I have no idea

Well I feel quite hungry at the moment. But I am planing on breaking my fast as soon as possible...  :D
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Don Pablo on July 08, 2018, 02:17:40 PM
I fast at least 8 hours every day. :tu:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Aloha on July 08, 2018, 02:38:47 PM
I fast at least 8 hours every day. :tu:

 :tu:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 08, 2018, 03:36:41 PM
I fast at least 8 hours every day. :tu:

23 to 7?  :think:

so are we doing this?

I am, if at least another person wants to try then we can make a thread on it  :salute:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 08, 2018, 04:41:34 PM
I fast at least 8 hours every day. :tu:

23 to 7?  :think:

so are we doing this?

I am, if at least another person wants to try then we can make a thread on it  :salute:

i'm game. we gonna go intermittent fast 16 to 18 hour fast and 8 to 6 hour of possibility to eat or full day fast. and is coffee breaking the fast or not?
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Don Pablo on July 08, 2018, 04:42:09 PM
I fast at least 8 hours every day. :tu:

23 to 7?  :think:
How did you guess?  :D
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Ron Who on July 08, 2018, 08:38:37 PM
I fast at least 8 hours every day. :tu:
I quit smoking every evening!
(And start again the next day).

But about fasting:

It is clear that we need to eat. We need fats, carbs, and proteins.
But there are good and bad examples of each.

Instead of low carb diets, try low sugar diets.
Eat less meat and more fish.
Eat as many fruits and veggies as you like.

And don´t eat junk food and ready-made meals that have way too much salt.

I´m 56 years old and healthy. My weight is just below 80kg. With a length of 1.80m my BMI is excellent.

Edit. I forgot this: don´t eat more calories than you can burn! Keep moving!
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 09, 2018, 05:12:22 PM

i'm game. we gonna go intermittent fast 16 to 18 hour fast and 8 to 6 hour of possibility to eat or full day fast. and is coffee breaking the fast or not?

a good way to start  :tu: IF with that 16/8 ratio is very easy to do and gets easier with time, in a few days you're used to it  :salute:
I'll start with you on that but with a slightly different 18/6 ratio to get warmed up, and then the other week the 2 day fast will be easy and smooth  :cheers:

Coffee is good as long as you're taking is as a non-caloric beverage (no sugar, no milk, no cream, just black coffee  :P [maybe with a noncaloric sweetener if you can't stand plain black coffee  :pok: such as saccharin, cyclamate, stevia, sucralose, neotame, or a combination of those, but you have to make sure it's calorie-free and not a pre-made mix using dextrose, or other bulking agents  :ahhh)
Same goes for tea  ;)


How did you guess?  :D

it's what I did at your age, going to sleep at 23PM and waking up for school at 7AM having breakfast  ;)

It is clear that we need to eat. We need fats, carbs, and proteins.
But there are good and bad examples of each.

Instead of low carb diets, try low sugar diets.
Eat less meat and more fish.
Eat as many fruits and veggies as you like.

And don´t eat junk food and ready-made meals that have way too much salt.

I´m 56 years old and healthy. My weight is just below 80kg. With a length of 1.80m my BMI is excellent.

Edit. I forgot this: don´t eat more calories than you can burn! Keep moving!


of course we need to eat, and eat good things, but this fasting approach is as good as any other especially if you haven't done your duties of clean healthy eating for years and now you have, feel and carry the consequences or ailments related to that  :oops:

some people cant diet, some can't eat healthy, some can't eat less, some can't move more, and to some of them the fasting method (be it IF, 2/7, 16-8 hours etc.) is what works or is easier to bear or apply to their daily lives and eating habits  :pok:

of course, as I said, if you don't have any problem, issue or medical condition related to diet this is moot point for you and this thread is not what you're looking for  :salute:

PS: I basically keep a vegetarian diet (80% of what I eat),
I quit sugar 3 years ago,  :mn: in all of its refined forms (fructose, glucose, sucrose, honey, syrups and such, the only sugars I eat now are naturally occurring, and I use stevia or sucralose/Ace-K/cyclamate/saccharine for sweetening purposes.

  ;) Barely any salt too, I don' add it to my food and I don't eat pre-made meals with exceptional occasions, but very rare ones  :angel:

I am 1,77 and 76Kgs but have other diet-related issues that benefit from intermittent fasting or occasional two/three day fasting every other month, and even though I move a lot and are not a sedentary person in the job or my free time, I have noticed improvements in my overall well being with this  :2tu:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: lister on July 09, 2018, 05:21:13 PM
I agree on the hard to digest carbs instead of cutting them out of ones diet completely. Try stuff like buckwheat kasha and other types of porridge (kaša is actually a word for porridge in Slavic languages  :D). I eat a lot of it (buckwheat, spelt, millet, wheat, brown rice, red rice). There are also different types of lentils. Though I only really eat peas and chickpeas.  :D
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Don Pablo on July 09, 2018, 05:58:41 PM
Now that you brought them up... What are the healthiest legumes? :think:
And the healthiest way to prepare them? The ones that come cooked in cans from the shop? Or soaking and cooking dried legumes at home?
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 09, 2018, 06:17:03 PM
well i'm in. and yes i drink pure black coffee without additions to it
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: lister on July 09, 2018, 06:43:25 PM
Now that you brought them up... What are the healthiest legumes? :think:
And the healthiest way to prepare them? The ones that come cooked in cans from the shop? Or soaking and cooking dried legumes at home?

I don't know. I simply eat the ones I like.  :like: :D

As for preparation I guess the ones you make at home?
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 09, 2018, 08:51:07 PM
Now that you brought them up... What are the healthiest legumes? :think:
And the healthiest way to prepare them? The ones that come cooked in cans from the shop? Or soaking and cooking dried legumes at home?

I don't know. I simply eat the ones I like.  :like: :D

As for preparation I guess the ones you make at home?

most times homemade food beats industrial preparation, legumes alone carry antioxidants, conservation products and emulsifiers among others, and a bunch of other additives (sugar, sequestering agents...) so they are fresh and edible  :pok:

But simply cooked legumes in jars with just water, salt, and possibly ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) are good to go.  :tu:

There are no "better" or "healthier" legumes, just different ones with different cooking times and digestibility. Some people get gassy eating pinto beans  :P, other finds lentils hard to eat and digest  :-\, other loathe the taste of chickpeas  :ahhh, etc. but all are good for the body, personal issues, allergies or preferences notwithstanding

The best thing, as usual with diet and food, is to have the biggest variety and rotate through different legumes to get all the different micronutrients and minerals present in ones and not in others  :salute:

well i'm in. and yes i drink pure black coffee without additions to it

good!  :cheers:
We have till next monday to make any necessary preparations, though it should be easy as is because you don't have to buy anything, as a matter of fact you tend to buy less after a while  :D
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 09, 2018, 09:12:58 PM
woooohoooo
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 09, 2018, 10:13:10 PM
Now that you brought them up... What are the healthiest legumes? :think:
And the healthiest way to prepare them? The ones that come cooked in cans from the shop? Or soaking and cooking dried legumes at home?
I buy tinned legumes because I can't be bothered soaking dry ones, although it would be a lot cheaper.
I put lentils in with pasta sauce (instead of mince), also can be used as the mince part of a shepherd's pie.
I put chickpeas in with (Indian) curries - chickpea and spinach is a good combo.
Have you tried felafel?
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Don Pablo on July 09, 2018, 10:53:14 PM
Now that you brought them up... What are the healthiest legumes? :think:
And the healthiest way to prepare them? The ones that come cooked in cans from the shop? Or soaking and cooking dried legumes at home?
I buy tinned legumes because I can't be bothered soaking dry ones, although it would be a lot cheaper.
I put lentils in with pasta sauce (instead of mince), also can be used as the mince part of a shepherd's pie.
I put chickpeas in with (Indian) curries - chickpea and spinach is a good combo.
Have you tried felafel?
I haven’t tried that. :think:

My favourite are the marrowfat peas, I think. Big and slightly mushy-soft when cooked, seems to be compatible with lots of food.

And it’s nice how cheap dried legumes are. :D
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 10, 2018, 09:47:49 AM
Next time you get a kebab, try a falafel one.  :pok:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 10, 2018, 12:17:43 PM
Well I'm in, obviously, but I'm working up to it in my usual way.

I prefer my coffee black and bitter......dark roast, but I started adding full cream to the first few....source of fat.

I could easily ditch the cream, but I do believe coffee counts as breaking the fast, at least that's what I seem to remember from docu.
That said, they might assume most people don't drink black & bitter.
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 10, 2018, 02:40:00 PM
Well I'm in, obviously, but I'm working up to it in my usual way.

I prefer my coffee black and bitter......dark roast, but I started adding full cream to the first few....source of fat.

I could easily ditch the cream, but I do believe coffee counts as breaking the fast, at least that's what I seem to remember from docu.
That said, they might assume most people don't drink black & bitter.

I guess you added the cream to comply with LCHF procedures, but this is a different approach, even though if you consume coffee during the non-fasting hours you can still add cream, milk or others to it  :cheers:

strictly speaking, fasting is not a single concept, you can water-fast, liquid-fast- etc.  :ahhh but most people agree that fasting (and its benefits, effects, results and consequences) implies the lack of energy input (ie not consuming calories or consuming negligible amounts of them), and black coffee alone is like tea alone, merely "flavored water", that lacks calories if you add nothing else like sugar, milk, cream or else  :salute:

so in the scientist's and nutritionist's eyes (or most of) black coffee, plain, is like taking water, thus accepted in a fasting diet  :tu:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 10, 2018, 04:03:00 PM
Well then that nicely eliminate my first problem.  :tu:

My second problem needs to be (mostly) eliminated anyway  :facepalm:

I found the part about the fasting mimicking diet fascinating.......eating without your stomach sending the signal to the brain.... 8)
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: lister on July 10, 2018, 04:08:38 PM
And thus MTO turns in to a pro-ana forum...  :rofl:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 10, 2018, 06:45:28 PM
And thus MTO turns in to a pro-ana forum...  :rofl:

I guess not, unless you do that yourself  ???

there are other places for that kind of talk
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: lister on July 10, 2018, 07:04:46 PM
And thus MTO turns in to a pro-ana forum...  :rofl:

I guess not, unless you do that yourself  ???

there are other places for that kind of talk

Well, I was accused of being malnurished several times during highschool by my GP.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Don Pablo on July 10, 2018, 07:31:45 PM
And thus MTO turns in to a pro-ana forum...  :rofl:

I guess not, unless you do that yourself  ???

there are other places for that kind of talk

Well, I was accused of being malnurished several times during highschool by my GP.  :facepalm:
My Grandmother thinks I'm too skinny...
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: lister on July 10, 2018, 07:40:56 PM
And thus MTO turns in to a pro-ana forum...  :rofl:

I guess not, unless you do that yourself  ???

there are other places for that kind of talk

Well, I was accused of being malnurished several times during highschool by my GP.  :facepalm:
My Grandmother thinks I'm too skinny...

Don't they all? My has this gesture where she sucks in her cheeks and repeatedli pokes them with her index fingers. I suppose it is suposed to mean that I have sunken cheeks from being too thin...  :facepalm: :rofl:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Don Pablo on July 10, 2018, 08:12:36 PM
And thus MTO turns in to a pro-ana forum...  :rofl:

I guess not, unless you do that yourself  ???

there are other places for that kind of talk

Well, I was accused of being malnurished several times during highschool by my GP.  :facepalm:
My Grandmother thinks I'm too skinny...

Don't they all? My has this gesture where she sucks in her cheeks and repeatedli pokes them with her index fingers. I suppose it is suposed to mean that I have sunken cheeks from being too thin...  :facepalm: :rofl:
:rofl:

I mean, I’m not skinny! I just have weak muscles.  :facepalm: ::)
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 10, 2018, 08:29:34 PM
that's an easy fix
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: lister on July 10, 2018, 08:54:46 PM
that's an easy fix

DEADLIFTS!!!!!!!!


Right?



 :ahhh




 :D
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 11, 2018, 08:01:29 AM
I weighed as much as 2 or 3 people during most of my life.......would like to come down to the weight of just one really big human  :rofl:

My mother is a feeder....... :facepalm:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 11, 2018, 01:19:24 PM
I have lost about 7-8 kg over the last 9 months or so from just cutting back a bit on sugar and carbs.
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Don Pablo on July 11, 2018, 02:04:00 PM
I weighed as much as 2 or 3 people during most of my life.......would like to come down to the weight of just one really big human  :rofl:

My mother is a feeder....... :facepalm:
I think of you as a tall guy... Am I accurate?  :think:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 11, 2018, 03:10:48 PM
I think of you as a tall guy... Am I accurate?  :think:

1.95m
I would say big rather than tall, considering bone structure.

IMO I looked liked a scaled up "normal" person rather than tall.....if that makes sense  :rofl:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Don Pablo on July 11, 2018, 03:21:40 PM
I think of you as a tall guy... Am I accurate?  :think:

1.95m
I would say big rather than tall, considering bone structure.

IMO I looked liked a scaled up "normal" person rather than tall.....if that makes sense  :rofl:
Yup it does.... :tu: a healthy weight for you is overweight for a short person?
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 11, 2018, 03:35:56 PM
I think of you as a tall guy... Am I accurate?  :think:

1.95m
I would say big rather than tall, considering bone structure.

IMO I looked liked a scaled up "normal" person rather than tall.....if that makes sense  :rofl:
Yup it does.... :tu: a healthy weight for you is overweight for a short person?

...obviously?  ???
And if he were 2.30m, then even more.
If he were 1.50 m, then the opposite

That's exactly what BMI is for   :pok:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Don Pablo on July 11, 2018, 03:54:07 PM
I think of you as a tall guy... Am I accurate?  :think:

1.95m
I would say big rather than tall, considering bone structure.

IMO I looked liked a scaled up "normal" person rather than tall.....if that makes sense  :rofl:
Yup it does.... :tu: a healthy weight for you is overweight for a short person?

...obviously?  ???
And if he were 2.30m, then even more.
If he were 1.50 m, then the opposite

That's exactly what BMI is for   :pok:
I know that, but I wasn’t sure how to write it.  :think: :tu:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 11, 2018, 04:01:52 PM
Problem is currently I'm 133kg, so I know I can drop 30kg's and feel much better......

Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: pfrsantos on July 11, 2018, 04:11:46 PM
Problem is currently I'm 133kg, so I know I can drop 30kg's and feel much better......

(https://i0.wp.com/www.pipelinecomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/asterix_v12_fat.jpeg?w=600&ssl=1)
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 12, 2018, 08:26:49 AM
Problem is currently I'm 133kg, so I know I can drop 30kg's and feel much better......

(https://i0.wp.com/www.pipelinecomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/asterix_v12_fat.jpeg?w=600&ssl=1)

Fat, within limits, makes you strong. Not sure if "strong" is the right word.......more destructive seems right  :salute:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: lister on July 12, 2018, 10:16:53 AM
I think it does. What I noticed is that people that are a bit on the heavy side gain strength and muscles faster than us skinny smurfs.
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 12, 2018, 10:43:39 AM
It's called weight training.  :whistle:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Don Pablo on July 12, 2018, 11:05:43 AM
Bulking and cutting?
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 12, 2018, 11:54:57 AM
It's called weight training.  :whistle:

Nope.....not that  :P

I think part of it is simple physics, if you're throwing a punch there's just much more weight being accelerated, impact is greater.

No really the idea, but the last rugby game I played was also the first in decade since quitting  age 15, opponent made a hospital-pass to a team mate right in front of me, I ran into him and sent him flying  :facepalm:

Not surprising, but what stuns me is the degree of speed and agility you regain when loosing a lot of weight. 
I have a cousin taller than me, and he held the U/18 100m and 200m national record from age 16, only broken several years later.

Only time I ever felt that speed was when I dropped to 105kg.

Also had my last brawl about that time......broke both my hands and his face, so I guess I don't need the weight  :P
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 12, 2018, 01:48:20 PM
well my next goal is to hit 90kg. about 98kg currently on me. the more serious problem is that i can't really cut calories drastically during the summer as that coupled with the heat tends to drain me
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 12, 2018, 03:01:59 PM
 :facepalm:
I would rather not put a number on it.....

If I'm perfectly honest the only thing that ever motivated serious weight loss was a woman.....that's not going to happen again.

Forcing myself to go walk in the mountains seem to work even when I'm fat, so that's not motivation anymore.

LCHF because how good HF tastes  :rofl:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 12, 2018, 03:26:41 PM
Problem is currently I'm 133kg, so I know I can drop 30kg's and feel much better......

(https://i0.wp.com/www.pipelinecomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/asterix_v12_fat.jpeg?w=600&ssl=1)

Fat, within limits, makes you strong. Not sure if "strong" is the right word.......more destructive seems right  :salute:

Fat is the main regulator and activator of hormones. Absent fat, people generally have greater hormone imbalances, loss of hormone production and low hormone levels of testosterone, growth hormone, leptin, ghrelin, serotonin and adrenaline.

An additional layer of fat, without impeding function of the organism, (ie. obesity, especially the morbid one), has many proven advantages:

- Better temperature regulation even in the heat, and retention of body heat (increased insulation)
- Lengthened life expectancy, especially on elderly stages
- Increased happiness, satisfaction and optimism linked to certain hormones that are high and abundant when there's a bit of excess fat in the body
- Cushioning, which results in better protection of bones and organs against fractures, crushing, impacts, bludgeoning, lacerations, cutting, and perforating/penetrating injuries. This doubles both as a survival strategy and in the modern world as a benefit in fighting, falling, or suffering injury
- Unless other diseases/ailments are present, fat aids in blood coagulation, fat in the body is related to reduced blood loss, proper blood density and clot formation
- Increased mass, which makes the muscles work more and be under more stress, which in time and combined with proper nutrition creates new muscular fibers and stronger, bulkier and bigger muscular mass, which is noticeable when weight loss occurs while keeping muscle mass (with weight training and other types of exercise)

and other benefits that I won't pint out now, because ar more dependant on other factors and the individual itself  :tu:

well my next goal is to hit 90kg. about 98kg currently on me. the more serious problem is that i can't really cut calories drastically during the summer as that coupled with the heat tends to drain me

you can try to increase a lot your non-caloric liquid consumption (water, tea, sugar free coke, Aquarius, Nestea etc., and black coffee with ice) to compensate for the heat and temperatures, while keeping your stomach full and "distracted" thus reducing your food input  :salute:

:facepalm:
LCHF because how good HF tastes  :rofl:

one of the common agreed properties that makes people like and adhere to a LCHF diet is that Fat, as opposed to other macronutrients, has the texture and taste that is more pleasant in the mouth  :drool:, and compared to CH and Protein, fatty foods are both tastier, their aftertaste lasts longer  ::) and their digestion is the slowest of all  :gimme: (fat is the nutrient that takes longer to digest) thus the satiety sensation is longer lasting than with other foods.  :whistle:

Protein is the second slowest digesting nutrient (very close to fat) and often considered the most sating, but its relative price is the highest and high-protein diets are proven to be expensive and toxic in the long term  :ahhh

In fact there is no animal in the world that basically feeds on protein (even the meat eaters, big carnivores and wild predators, they feed mostly on fatty meat pieces and big chunks of non-muscle tissue), they either prefer carbohydrates (herbivores and many others, omnivores too) or fat (big cats and felines, fish, birds) to comprise most of their caloric intake  ;)
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 12, 2018, 06:25:31 PM
water works only for a while
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 12, 2018, 10:51:37 PM
Fat is the main regulator and activator of hormones. Absent fat, people generally have greater hormone imbalances, loss of hormone production and low hormone levels of testosterone, growth hormone, leptin, ghrelin, serotonin and adrenaline.
Very interesting.... so the best (healthiest) way to gain fat is..... to eat fat?
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Don Pablo on July 12, 2018, 11:17:49 PM
Fat is the main regulator and activator of hormones. Absent fat, people generally have greater hormone imbalances, loss of hormone production and low hormone levels of testosterone, growth hormone, leptin, ghrelin, serotonin and adrenaline.
Very interesting.... so the best (healthiest) way to gain fat is..... to eat fat?
As opposed to eating too many carbs and protein?  :think:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 12, 2018, 11:32:38 PM
Fat is the main regulator and activator of hormones. Absent fat, people generally have greater hormone imbalances, loss of hormone production and low hormone levels of testosterone, growth hormone, leptin, ghrelin, serotonin and adrenaline.
Very interesting.... so the best (healthiest) way to gain fat is..... to eat fat?
As opposed to eating too many carbs and protein?  :think:
We know we can get fat by eating lots of sugar and carbs. Dunno about protein...
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 13, 2018, 02:16:45 PM

Very interesting.... so the best (healthiest) way to gain fat is..... to eat fat?
As opposed to eating too many carbs and protein?  :think:
[/quote]
We know we can get fat by eating lots of sugar and carbs. Dunno about protein...
[/quote]

not necessarily, but in most cases, it is.

A proper weight gaining diet should contain the three macronutrients in balanced percentages, but    protein is key to gain weight in the form of muscle (no other nutrient can build muscle fibers), which has to be supplemented with
carbs (to create the glycogen that will "fill" the space in between those fibers and "load" the muscle energy storage units) at the time that   
fat is also of the essence because it will permit the hormonal work to be done (fat-dependent hormones being the ones in charge of transforming the protein into muscle, and drive the energy from digested carbs to the cellular reserves, without proper levels of hormones these processes can't happen correctly  :ahhh)

Excess of carbs in this case or in case of a normal person's diet and life will lead to storage as fat once the glycogen reserves are full (2000-2500kcal), generally being stored around specific sex-related aress (thighs and armpits in women, belly and neck in men),
excess of protein is harder to get to because of its toxicity and the thermic effect of protein and because it's excreted through the urine if there's too much of it, let alone its price and availability in common foods,
excess of fat is stored as fat once there is an excess of carbs already, and the glycogen reserves are full, (giving you a wide calorie margin before you reach that point) and also once your body has enough fats already to do its hormonal and cognitive functions with the fat reserves, which can take lots of fat and large mount of fatty acids before you're "full of them". :salute:

Finally, carbohydrates have the least filling effect on the human body, both physical (digestion speed, thermic effect...) and psychological (lack of flavor, lack of texture, blood spikes with consequent blood sugar depletion and hunger feeling, dizziness, cravings etc.).
Fats and proteins are more filling in the short term, better at the long term in regulating blood sugar and hormonal "hunger", and have it harder to be eaten in excess and stored afterwards, for the reasons noted above  :tu:

All of this makes carbs the easiest, fastest, most uncontrolled and worst (in its effects on your body) way to gain weight,  :oops: if that answers your questions. Carbs in this case are mostly sugars, simple chain carbs, easily digested saccharides and starches and so on. 

TL;DR: Eating way too many of anything will make you fat, but eating way too many carbs over too many proteins or fats will make you fatter quicker, easier and in a more unhealthy and ill-addressed way  :o  that will also be worse in its consequences and harder to revert/undo  :twak:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 13, 2018, 02:23:42 PM
Thanks for the explanation.  :tu:
I have a friend who has lost a lot of weight (unintentionally) and has possible hormonal and serotonin issues.
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 13, 2018, 05:27:45 PM
Thanks for the explanation.  :tu:
I have a friend who has lost a lot of weight (unintentionally) and has possible hormonal and serotonin issues.

very likely,
in fact one of the reasons why people tend to lose so much weight unintentionally when they suffer from Depression is no only because they eat less and less often, but because of the hormone depletion they suffer, which sends signals to the body to:

a- Eat less
b- Not enjoy the already small amounts food you eat, it feels tasteless, joyless and boring
c- Not store the excess calories as fat, as insulin and other hormones that work in fat storage/energy reserve creation are in low levels and are also counterbalanced by other hormones released as a consequence to the depression

hopefully your friend is not going through that, best wishes if so  :salute: it can be a hard thing for that person and those who love him/her as well  :-\
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: pfrsantos on July 13, 2018, 05:28:22 PM
I just lost 120 pounds!
 8) 8)

Show content
I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 :whistle:

Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 13, 2018, 06:05:27 PM
I just lost 120 pounds!
 8) 8)

Show content
I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 :whistle:



congrats. or condolences
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: pfrsantos on July 13, 2018, 06:06:52 PM
I just lost 120 pounds!
 8) 8)

Show content
I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 :whistle:



congrats. or condolences

A little bit of both...

 8) 8)
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 13, 2018, 10:33:25 PM
I just lost 120 pounds!
 8) 8)

Show content
I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 :whistle:



congrats. or condolences


A little bit of both...

 8) 8)

well then I wish you both
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 13, 2018, 10:50:19 PM
I just lost 120 pounds!
 8) 8)

Show content
I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 :whistle:
I thought you used Euros there, not pounds...
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Mechanickal on July 13, 2018, 11:59:34 PM
I just lost 120 pounds!
 8) 8)

Show content
I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 :whistle:
I thought you used Euros there, not pounds...
Maybe his gf weighed 120 pounds?
Which means she was quite in shape...
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 14, 2018, 12:02:03 AM
I was suggesting she was paid.  ::)
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Mechanickal on July 14, 2018, 12:03:06 AM
Didn't see it.
But good one!
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 14, 2018, 01:13:06 PM
I just lost 120 pounds!
 8) 8)

Show content
I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 :whistle:
I thought you used Euros there, not pounds...
Maybe his gf weighed 120 pounds?
Which means she was quite in shape...

not if she was under 150cm tall
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 14, 2018, 10:03:47 PM
I just lost 120 pounds!
 8) 8)

Show content
I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 :whistle:
I thought you used Euros there, not pounds...
Maybe his gf weighed 120 pounds?
Which means she was quite in shape...

not if she was under 150cm tall

stole my words  :D
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Nix on July 14, 2018, 10:33:51 PM

Protein is the second slowest digesting nutrient (very close to fat) and often considered the most sating, but its relative price is the highest and high-protein diets are proven to be expensive and toxic in the long term  :ahhh

In fact there is no animal in the world that basically feeds on protein (even the meat eaters, big carnivores and wild predators, they feed mostly on fatty meat pieces and big chunks of non-muscle tissue), they either prefer carbohydrates (herbivores and many others, omnivores too) or fat (big cats and felines, fish, birds) to comprise most of their caloric intake  ;)


That may be a bit too general.

Most wild animals are relatively lean. And many predators don't get to eat much fatty protein. It is true that most predators will preferentially eat organ meats, which do have a higher fat content, and frequently, a high nutrient content.  Predators will often eat partially digested plant-based foods from the stomach and intestines of prey animals. So, they do get some carbohydrate that way.

But, there are humans, e.g. Inuit, who eat primarily protein and fat. Very little carbohydrate at all. And are very healthy....until they start eating a 'Western Diet' with lots of carbs.

Many people have demonstrated that it is possible to live quite nicely on just meat. Meat with some fat content. I'm not aware of anything that suggests pure protein becomes 'toxic' over time. A lack of essential fatty acids leads to nutritional deficiencies, but a high protein diet is not inherently problematic.

The early studies that led some people to think that protein might cause kidney issues came from force feeding rabbit high protein diets. Well, rabbits aren't designed to eat protein, and feeding rabbits an unnatural diet proved to be a problem.

But for humans, an all meat diet is not a problem as long as there is enough fat in the diet to meet nutritional requirements. The term "Rabbit Starvation" is an example of an all-meat diet that is so low in fatty acids that nutritional requirements aren't met.

Humans require 'essential' amino acids (proteins) and fatty acids (fats), but there is no carbohydrate requirement.
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 14, 2018, 10:56:09 PM
When the time comes, I will start the thread (possibly tomorrow evening or Monday morning as we have people for all places and countries) but I thought this would be an appropriate first post for it, and an introduction to any newcomers to the subject. It's long winded, but if you want to go through it, here it is:  :salute:
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OK, so here we have it. If anyone wants to join, at any point, you're welcome here and feel free to post about your experience(s) with fasting, as well as any doubts or thoughts you have about it, questions, ideas, or personal accounts or from others.  :salute:  Keep it respectful, please.  :tu:

And, this is not medical advice, any reasonings as to "why this happens" or "how do you explain this" can be asked and you'll be pointed out to where to do your own research, read on the subject, or you'll get your answer here  ;)

The basics, of what you can and cannot do would be very simple:

You can:
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- Eat during the scheduled hours of the day that correspond to your fasting method
- Drink non-caloric drinks during the fasting hours, that is water, sparkly water, plain black coffee, tea [green, black, or white], and flavored water (with lemon drops, for instance) but not using any caloric add-on (sugar, cream, milk, alcohol, honey, etc. all these are out, only non-caloric sweeteners are allowed if you need the drink flavored or sweetened)  :gimme:
- Furthermore, you must drink more because fasting naturally depleted your body fluids and causes greater water loss than any other "diet" or way of eating, but we won't get into why that happens here, ask if necessary  :tu:
- Exercise, work, play sports, do your hobbies and normal life.  ;)

You can't:
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- Eat snacks, appetizers, binge eat (but you can binge watch TV or binge surf Mt.Org!  :cheers:) or drink juices, cappuccinos, nectars, smoothies, milk, alcohol or any caloric beverage during the fasting hours
- Eat or take in calories after or before your pre-scheduled eating windows  :facepalm:
- Overdo it, if you feel bad (not just hungry, a bit  bad tempered or somewhat light headed) or notice any issues stop it immediately and have common sense when feeling your own body's signals and feelings  :pok:
- Start fasting if you have a serious medical condition mostly related to diet (diabetes, hypotension, etc.). Consult your GP or doctor before starting fasting, or if you think it could negatively affect your health or interfere with your medication(s)  :twak:

any medication, pills, or substances you must ingest will have to be ingested during the eating periods, as many meds today contain glucose, dextrose, and other caloric substances which usually comprise most of the medicine's weight (cough syrup, gastric pills, etc.)  :ahhh

Below, a brief approach to the most common (But not all) fasting methods that people use today:

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- IF: (intermittent Fasting) includes any fasting that follows a regular pattern of eating and non-eating hours that is repeated throughout the week, month or another time frame, for instance eat 6 hrs a day, stop eating during 18 hrs and then start eating again, the religious Ramadan would be a very common practiced type of IF (fasting from sun to sun, eating before the first sunlight and start eating again after the last ray of sunlight)

- ADF: (Alternate Day Fasting) is eating one day of the week, then not eating the whole next day, then eating again the third day, and fasting the entire fourth day and so on, in whatever order you choose (for instance eat on Sunday but not Monday, then eat on Tuesday etc. or viceversa)

- 2/7: That is fasting two days every week, no matter when, be it two days in a row (ex: not eating on Monday and Tuesday) or more commonly not eating on two different days of the week

- Prolonged fast: This is not eating for more than 48 hours straight, for example eating on Monday at 8AM and then fasting until 13PM of Wednesday. 72hrs or more fasting is included here. Even though people rarely fast for more than 48hrs, some do it for political beliefs, religious practices, health problems or other issues, but these kind of fasts generally require of close medical supervision and a controlled environment

One should never attempt this long of a fast without previous planning, medical advice, and preferably previous experience to fasting.   :o

Finally, some common things people feel and experience when fasting:

The not so pretty:
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- The first times and days are the harder, but if you're in good health your body adapts quickly and it becomes a non-issue. Like everything, it takes practice to be fully comfortable with it. You might feel weak or tired because of the loss of liquid (drink, drink!!) and electrolytes in the blood that come with the liquid loss [Na, K, Ca, Mn, Cu] (drink electrolyte drinks or do them at home with lemon, salts, etc., put salt in your food, etc.)  :ahhh

- Hunger always comes in waves (it's the body's hormonal system functioning, the same in everybody), the idea is to ignore or overcome these waves with will power, distracting yourself or doing other stuff (keeping yourself busy) until it goes away. It will go away, and the more time you are at this the longer the time will be between them, and the lesser their effect and disturbance on you. The first 48 hrs are the worst, always.

- All of the above will be harder if you suffer from Diabetes or Pre-Diabetes or take certain medications that affect hormones (or have other ailments/diseases that cause hormonal abnormalities). If so, it is of prime importance that you talk to your doctor before attempting any fasting at all  :ahhh :twak: 

- The first days or weeks you'll probably be more bad tempered, susceptible and angry when you feel hunger, but this is also related to hormones (hunger = alert, due to our animal roots) and will even out or disappear after a while of fasting and getting used to it. Your self control will eventually become much better, stronger and can help you out in other aspects of life  :gimme:

The somewhat pretty:

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with some time into fasting and practicing with this method,

- You will notice that your glucose levels (and insulin release, blood sugar spikes, etc.) improve with fasting and your hunger levels will be lower after a while, and the hunger "waves" or pangs will be reduced or will disappear, hard to believe until you experience it

- You will lose weight, if you compliment the fasting with a proper diet (that is, not eating junk food in your eating windows,  :D and learning to listen to your real hunger and body signals, not start eating just the minute you "can" and eat for 6 hours straight to engorge yourself until you're full, to "compensate" for all what you haven't eaten  :viking:) and keep active, walking, working, etc. You can gain weight with fasting, too  :o

- You will be better at knowing when your body asks for food, and when you are just experiencing a hunger pang, cravings or desire to eat. If you're hungry but go for a walk, drink some water or engage in an activity and 15 mins later you are not consumed by a raving hunger, then you didn't really need to it back then when you thought you did  :think:). Thus you will be more proficient at regulating when, what ,where and why do you eat, without needing to run for a doughnut or interrupt what you are doing to eat something, be it work, a hobby or a fun trip  :cheers:

- Your blood lipids (cholesterol, fatty acids, etc.) will improve especially if your diet is a proper, nutritious one during the time that you are eating. Your mood will even out as you learn to cope with hunger, which will be lesser and more controllable as you progress, and you'll feel more energetic and active if you get the proper food at the proper time, and combine it with controlled non eating periods

Final notes,

- if you fast, drink a lot!! Keep hydrated  :2tu: and electrolytes are also key, sodium, potassium, etc.
- if you take meds or have medical conditions, ask your doctore before any of this!!  :megaslap:
- if you fast, you must take special care of your diet and what you eat when you do eat. Nourish yourself with real food!  :gimme:
- if you fast, and you feel bad or are experiencing trouble or signs of it (blackouts, fainting, weird body movement, etc.) stop instantly and talk to our doctor!!!
- Normal things are feeling light, strongly tempered, hungry, a bit weak (the first times), pain in the stomach  ??? (that's not real pain, but hunger signals, intense ones though  :D) or even tired at times until you get used, but NOT normal is feeling ill, in pain, have crampings, or having extreme reactions (vomiting, diarrhea, etc.)  :twak:

So, after this long winded post, if you feel like it, welcome to this thread and join whenever you want or when you've answered your questions and want to give it a try!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Nix on July 14, 2018, 11:00:08 PM
So you're going to start a fasting thread? I'm in!
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Syncop8r on July 14, 2018, 11:03:45 PM
I thought this was the fasting thread....  :think:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 14, 2018, 11:08:59 PM

Protein is the second slowest digesting nutrient (very close to fat) and often considered the most sating, but its relative price is the highest and high-protein diets are proven to be expensive and toxic in the long term  :ahhh

In fact there is no animal in the world that basically feeds on protein (even the meat eaters, big carnivores and wild predators, they feed mostly on fatty meat pieces and big chunks of non-muscle tissue), they either prefer carbohydrates (herbivores and many others, omnivores too) or fat (big cats and felines, fish, birds) to comprise most of their caloric intake  ;)


That may be a bit too general.

Most wild animals are relatively lean. And many predators don't get to eat much fatty protein. It is true that most predators will preferentially eat organ meats, which do have a higher fat content, and frequently, a high nutrient content.  Predators will often eat partially digested plant-based foods from the stomach and intestines of prey animals. So, they do get some carbohydrate that way.

But, there are humans, e.g. Inuit, who eat primarily protein and fat. Very little carbohydrate at all. And are very healthy....until they start eating a 'Western Diet' with lots of carbs.

Many people have demonstrated that it is possible to live quite nicely on just meat. Meat with some fat content. I'm not aware of anything that suggests pure protein becomes 'toxic' over time. A lack of essential fatty acids leads to nutritional deficiencies, but a high protein diet is not inherently problematic.

The early studies that led some people to think that protein might cause kidney issues came from force feeding rabbit high protein diets. Well, rabbits aren't designed to eat protein, and feeding rabbits an unnatural diet proved to be a problem.

But for humans, an all meat diet is not a problem as long as there is enough fat in the diet to meet nutritional requirements. The term "Rabbit Starvation" is an example of an all-meat diet that is so low in fatty acids that nutritional requirements aren't met.

Humans require 'essential' amino acids (proteins) and fatty acids (fats), but there is no carbohydrate requirement.

all very true and valid points.  :like:

For the Inuit diet and a carb-free (or almost) way of eating I really recommend reading "Why We Get Fat, And What to do About It" and "The Big Fat Surprise" to address exactly those points   :tu: Also reading on Vilhjalmur Stefansson and his experiments after meeting the Inuit raises interesting points and considerations regarding western Diet vs meat based diet  :salute:

And not contradictiomg your explanaton in any way, it is very true that:

a-Protein exclusive diets were tried on the inappropriate animals (mainly vegetarian ones) and the results cannot apply to human beings
b- If a high protein (or protein exclusive) diet can be considered toxic/dangerous to the human being is because of the lack of other nutrients, not because of protein itself or a inherent substance/component in the amino acids or as a result of their breakdown in the digestive system

That of course would also apply to a 100% carb or 100% fat diet not complemented with other minerals, micronutrients, vitamins etc. but realistically speaking it's impossible for any person to thrive and live on that kind diet, thus resulting in a toxic diet in any of the previous scenarios  :ahhh

Carbs are the least important macronutrient as practically all they provide is energy,
proteins have the amino-acids and fats with their fatty acids are vital to dissolve and absorb many vitamins, and contain lots of minerals and other key substances. The only strongly beneficial nutrients related or present in carbohydrate rich foods are fiber, vitamins and minerals (mostly from plants and non refined grains) which sadly are lacking in most modern western diets, which only have refined, nutrient poor carbs  :oops:

So I don't see if or where are we contradicting ourselves in what has been posted,  :think: but yes there's many misinformation spread all across the world and much bad has been done and said in the education and advertising of the American Diet and Nutrition in general in the last century  :facepalm: 

but I fail to see what does that have to do with fasting more than it has to do with proper nutrition, a subject for another (or many other) threads  ???
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 14, 2018, 11:10:00 PM
I thought this was the fasting thread....  :think:

yes we got a bit carried away,  :D thus why I said in the post just above and answering to Nix's very interesting points:

"So I don't see if or where are we contradicting ourselves in what has been posted,  :think: but yes there's many misinformation spread all across the world and much bad has been done and said in the education and advertising of the American Diet and Nutrition in general in the last century  :facepalm: 

but I fail to see what does that have to do with fasting more than it has to do with proper nutrition, a subject for another (or many other) threads  ???"
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Nix on July 14, 2018, 11:11:28 PM
Well said, El P.  :tu:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Mechanickal on July 15, 2018, 09:12:07 AM
I can vouch for the part where it states that the waves of hunger get less intense and less common.

When I couldn't eat for a few weeks, the first 3-4 days were the hardest regarding hunger.
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 15, 2018, 11:22:14 AM
so please help me figure this out - you said 18-6 right? i usually get to the gym around 18:30 to 19:00 and don't get back home before 21:00. this will all change for the next month since I'll be going to a different gym, but that is still the best outlier.

if I cap off the eating window at 22:00 that means it starts at 16:00, which means going through almost the entire day on a coffee or 2 and water. this is a bit concerning since I get up around 7, work 'till 17:00
if I say end the eating window at 20:00, it would start at 14:00 which is great (since that is about the time I eat lunch at work anyway), however it would also mean that after the gym there is no meal and logistically a bit more concerning managing to put all the meals while i'm at work (i squat 3 times a week and if i eat something in the hour before it tends to lead to wanting to hurl, especially if it is a max effort or around 90% squat which also means I've got a belt on tight)

To give a few figures, I should be eating a baseline of 2000 kcal to be in a caloric deficit plus what ever I spend on cardio (walking to and from work, to and from the gym). Gym days that means 880 extra kcal, off days that means 440 extra kcal. Again, for the next month all days will be calculated as off days since that temporary gym is close to my work.
That would bean hitting 2400kcal a day, breaking it down to 3 meals would be 800kcal which is oddly difficult when you're trying to eat clean (no sugar, carbs from potatoes, rice, vegetables and fruit, using leaner meats).
I have a feeling that this will result in me being one of those guys that packs a mini fridge to work and eats every 2 hours like a baby
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 15, 2018, 07:09:30 PM
so please help me figure this out - 1you said 18-6 right? I usually get to the gym around 18:30 to 19:00 and don't get back home before 21:00. this will all change for the next month since I'll be going to a different gym, but that is still the best outlier.

if I cap off the eating window at 22:00 that means it starts at 16:00, which means going through almost the entire day on a coffee or 2 and water. this is a bit concerning since I get up around 7, work 'till 17:00
if I say end the eating window at 20:00, it would start at 14:00 which is great2 (since that is about the time I eat lunch at work anyway), however it would also mean that after the gym there is no meal and logistically 3a bit more concerning managing to put all the meals while i'm at work (i squat 3 times a week and if i eat something in the hour before it tends to lead to wanting to hurl, especially if it is a max effort or around 90% squat which also means I've got a belt on tight)

To give a few figures, I should be eating a baseline of 42000 kcal to be in a caloric deficit plus what ever I spend on cardio (walking to and from work, to and from the gym). Gym days that means 880 extra kcal, off days that means 440 extra kcal. Again, for the next month all days will be calculated as off days since that temporary gym is close to my work.
That would bean hitting 52400kcal a day, breaking it down to 3 meals would be 800kcal 6which is oddly difficult when you're trying to eat clean (no sugar, carbs from potatoes, rice, vegetables and fruit, using leaner meats).
I have a feeling that this will result in me being one of those guys that packs a mini fridge to work and 7eats every 2 hours like a baby

let's split the answer to address different bolded parts, in order  :tu:

1- I didn't say anything about your ideal personal approach to fasting, 18/6 is as valid as is 16/8, 20/4 or other methods. I personally do 18/6 most days (stop eating at 9PM, eating lunch at around 15 next day). You do as you wish, or can  :pok:

2- That's up to you, some people can't have breakfast, some others need something to eat as soon as they get up, many people have dinner at 6 or 7PM (including several EU countries), etc. If you usually skip breakfast like me, and your first meal is lunch, then the easier it is to tick to this. You have to mold it to your preferential eating hours, or do ADF (alternate day fasting)

3- I, and many millions of people, do not eat while at work, or have jobs/job sites/environments where it is harder to find a break for eating. I advise you to consider not eating at all during your work hours to improve your efficiency and save time, but I do not know what, where or when do you work   ???  or what does your job demand of you  :think:

4- Calories are totally independent of fasting, one can eat 3500kcal/day on a fasting diet, or 1800kcal/day on a 5 meal a day plan  :ahhh

5- No need to do that, I personally eat 2600-2800 kcal/day on two meals, and one snack in between (15-16PM and 20-21PM) if I feel like it. Also, I guess you're following that diet and meal distribution due to your workout and exercise, and the intention to build muscle  :think: but it can be easily modified to be efficient while fitting into a fasting plan  :cheers:

6- I don't really agree with that.  :pok: Even in a muscle building diet you can combine the proper carb/protein/fat ratios in every meal (be it 2 or 3 meals a day or more) to reach 800kcal, less or more calories too, in a clean, natural way. The hardest part is not what foods to pick, but rather the logistics of transport, eating, and varying the diert enough while working, walking and going to the gym.

Planning is the key here.
And also, fat is the densest food calorie wise (9Kcal/gram vs 4kcal/gram for protein and carbs) so adding it to your meals would make them more compact, easier to transport, and smaller so they interfere less with exercise (non fulll stomachs, bloating, gas, indigestion, etc.) and your logistics.

Finally, maybe the best diet to compliment a fasting approach is a ketogenic or low carb one, where fat is king and carbs (especially easily digested ones like rice, potato, etc.) are not welcome, because of their immediate absorption, blood sugar spiking and other issues  :salute:

just food for thought (pun intended)  :D

7- that would be the end result the furthest from a proper, well planned fasting diet, but I am not anyone to tell you how, what, where and when to eat  :ahhh, the fasting approach might not be for you, or at least not at this time   :P  if you find it so challenging and hard to pull off. Friendly advice here, nothing else! I will try to help you the best I can, otr at least offer you other points of view  :cheers:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 15, 2018, 09:35:12 PM
Actually I had a very hard time eating clean and reaching a specific caloric goal. A big part of that is the lack of availability or ridiculously high cost of some foods that would help out without putting in horrid amounts of the not so good micronutrients. It is one of the reasons why even trying keto for myself for instance is a really bad idea since most of my pay would go on food.


I think I'll give it a go in the 16-8 format from 14:00 to 22:00 as that will give me enough options put those calories in (yes, I'm very concerned about yo-yoing and going too fast)
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 16, 2018, 09:12:53 AM
Actually I had a very hard time eating clean and reaching a specific caloric goal. A big part of that is the lack of availability or ridiculously high cost of some foods that would help out without putting in horrid amounts of the not so good micronutrients. It is one of the reasons why even trying keto for myself for instance is a really bad idea since most of my pay would go on food.

I already spend as much on food as a small family.
I beat myself up about this at times, but the only option is eating less, not to start shoveling garbage......my body doesn't let me get away with that.

I had an active weekend but I ate too much yesterday......paying for that today.  :facepalm:

Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 16, 2018, 10:39:21 AM
yea that is problematic at best
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 16, 2018, 02:41:02 PM

3- I, and many millions of people, do not eat while at work, or have jobs/job sites/environments where it is harder to find a break for eating. I advise you to consider not eating at all during your work hours to improve your efficiency and save time, but I do not know what, where or when do you work   ???  or what does your job demand of you  :think:


Even disregarding those that are in effect slaves, I know the truth of what you're saying.....but I can't do it.

Closest I came was when I smoked 40 a (good) day.......
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: pfrsantos on July 16, 2018, 04:53:11 PM
I just lost 120 pounds!
 8) 8)

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I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 :whistle:
I thought you used Euros there, not pounds...

She was British.

:hatsoff:

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Seems Brexit came early for me...

 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: pfrsantos on July 16, 2018, 04:54:10 PM
I was suggesting she was paid.  ::)

In that case, since we "broke up", I'd have gained/saved120 pounds...

 :pok: :pok:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: pfrsantos on July 16, 2018, 04:55:01 PM
I just lost 120 pounds!
 8) 8)

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I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 :whistle:
I thought you used Euros there, not pounds...
Maybe his gf weighed 120 pounds?
Which means she was quite in shape...

not if she was under 150cm tall

Of course she was in shape!

 :twak: :twak:

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Round is a shape, you know?!

 :pok: :pok:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: pfrsantos on July 16, 2018, 04:56:02 PM
So you're going to start a fasting thread? I'm in!

Why start another?!

 :think: :think:

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Isn't this one going fast enough for you?...

 :pok: :pok:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 16, 2018, 04:57:04 PM
Actually I had a very hard time eating clean and reaching a specific caloric goal.

availability or ridiculously high cost of some foods that would help out without putting in horrid amounts of the not so good micronutrients.

 It is one of the reasons why even trying keto for myself for instance is a really bad idea since most of my pay would go on food.

I think I'll give it a go in the 16-8 format from 14:00 to 22:00 as that will give me enough options put those calories in (yes, I'm very concerned about yo-yoing and going too fast)

Caloric goals, whether they are noticeably higher than your average or lower than it, are hard to reach if one doesn't follow closely  :ahhh

As for nutrient rich foods on a budget:

Vegetables. They are cheap (in season), full of micronutrients absent anti nutrients (for the most part) and go well with almost any other food
You can buy a bunch of olive oil in big bottles, and veggies with olive oil are easy, quick, portable and nutritious  :tu:
Living in Croatia (sorry for the world cup  :P) Olive oil should not be expensive, and is keto-friendly (as are many vegetables)  :salute:

Nuts. Lots of protein, healthy fats, fiber, packable(portable, easy to carry and snack on) and very small amounts are highly caloric and tasty. Cashews, pecans, walnuts, almonds, hazelnuts, pistachio nuts and peanuts (though they are a legume) are all good and available most everywhere  :gimme:  And most of these are naturally low in carbs

Eggs, Turkey, Ham, and other sources of protein with high quality amino-acids and excellent nutritional profiles can be had cheap, quick and ready with a bit of planning and appropriate cooking  ;)  No or almost no carbs, good fat and protein  :cheers:

a good, organised fridge and storage room go along way in making healthy eating inexpensive, ready, easy and portable

OFC it's much more complex than that, but those are some key points

and finally, going too fast is never good, be it to gain weight, lose weight, eat healthier, eat better, or change your diet on the whole  :P
One ha to go step by step, slow but strong  :2tu:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 16, 2018, 04:58:34 PM
I just lost 120 pounds!
 8) 8)

Show content
I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 :whistle:
I thought you used Euros there, not pounds...
Maybe his gf weighed 120 pounds?
Which means she was quite in shape...

not if she was under 150cm tall

Of course she was in shape!

 :twak: :twak:

Show content
Round is a shape, you know?!

 :pok: :pok:


on the bright side now we can bro it up, wingman style
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 16, 2018, 05:00:04 PM
Actually I had a very hard time eating clean and reaching a specific caloric goal.

availability or ridiculously high cost of some foods that would help out without putting in horrid amounts of the not so good micronutrients.

 It is one of the reasons why even trying keto for myself for instance is a really bad idea since most of my pay would go on food.

I think I'll give it a go in the 16-8 format from 14:00 to 22:00 as that will give me enough options put those calories in (yes, I'm very concerned about yo-yoing and going too fast)

Caloric goals, whether they are noticeably higher than your average or lower than it, are hard to reach if one doesn't follow closely  :ahhh

As for nutrient rich foods on a budget:

Vegetables. They are cheap (in season), full of micronutrients absent anti nutrients (for the most part) and go well with almost any other food
You can buy a bunch of olive oil in big bottles, and veggies with olive oil are easy, quick, portable and nutritious  :tu:
Living in Croatia (sorry for the world cup  :P) Olive oil should not be expensive, and is keto-friendly (as are many vegetables)  :salute:

Nuts. Lots of protein, healthy fats, fiber, packable(portable, easy to carry and snack on) and very small amounts are highly caloric and tasty. Cashews, pecans, walnuts, almonds, hazelnuts, pistachio nuts and peanuts (though they are a legume) are all good and available most everywhere  :gimme:  And most of these are naturally low in carbs

Eggs, Turkey, Ham, and other sources of protein with high quality amino-acids and excellent nutritional profiles can be had cheap, quick and ready with a bit of planning and appropriate cooking  ;)  No or almost no carbs, good fat and protein  :cheers:

a good, organised fridge and storage room go along way in making healthy eating inexpensive, ready, easy and portable

OFC it's much more complex than that, but those are some key points

and finally, going too fast is never good, be it to gain weight, lose weight, eat healthier, eat better, or change your diet on the whole  :P
One ha to go step by step, slow but strong  :2tu:

you'd be surprised by some of the things that should be inexpensive but aren't. now i'm going off work so i'll have to add on later
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 16, 2018, 08:59:22 PM
Actually I had a very hard time eating clean and reaching a specific caloric goal.

availability or ridiculously high cost of some foods that would help out without putting in horrid amounts of the not so good micronutrients.

 It is one of the reasons why even trying keto for myself for instance is a really bad idea since most of my pay would go on food.

I think I'll give it a go in the 16-8 format from 14:00 to 22:00 as that will give me enough options put those calories in (yes, I'm very concerned about yo-yoing and going too fast)

Caloric goals, whether they are noticeably higher than your average or lower than it, are hard to reach if one doesn't follow closely  :ahhh

As for nutrient rich foods on a budget:

Vegetables. They are cheap (in season), full of micronutrients absent anti nutrients (for the most part) and go well with almost any other food
You can buy a bunch of olive oil in big bottles, and veggies with olive oil are easy, quick, portable and nutritious  :tu:
Living in Croatia (sorry for the world cup  :P) Olive oil should not be expensive, and is keto-friendly (as are many vegetables)  :salute:

Nuts. Lots of protein, healthy fats, fiber, packable(portable, easy to carry and snack on) and very small amounts are highly caloric and tasty. Cashews, pecans, walnuts, almonds, hazelnuts, pistachio nuts and peanuts (though they are a legume) are all good and available most everywhere  :gimme:  And most of these are naturally low in carbs

Eggs, Turkey, Ham, and other sources of protein with high quality amino-acids and excellent nutritional profiles can be had cheap, quick and ready with a bit of planning and appropriate cooking  ;)  No or almost no carbs, good fat and protein  :cheers:

a good, organised fridge and storage room go along way in making healthy eating inexpensive, ready, easy and portable

OFC it's much more complex than that, but those are some key points

and finally, going too fast is never good, be it to gain weight, lose weight, eat healthier, eat better, or change your diet on the whole  :P
One ha to go step by step, slow but strong  :2tu:

you'd be surprised by some of the things that should be inexpensive but aren't. now i'm going off work so i'll have to add on later

good luck!  :cheers: Don't push it, don't overdo it,
now I am taking a white tea infusion to calm the stomach down before going to sleep. GOing soon to sleep is key on the first day to avoid late night cravings  :tu:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 16, 2018, 09:32:26 PM
tha's great advice
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: SteveC on July 16, 2018, 09:36:16 PM
Are you guys trying to lose weight ?   :think:
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: styx on July 16, 2018, 09:39:03 PM
I just lost 120 pounds!
 8) 8)

Show content
I broke up wityh my girlfriend...

 :whistle:
I thought you used Euros there, not pounds...
Maybe his gf weighed 120 pounds?
Which means she was quite in shape...

not if she was under 150cm tall

Of course she was in shape!

 :twak: :twak:

Show content
Round is a shape, you know?!

 :pok: :pok:

and this is what I meant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_tJEiIAUh8
Title: Re: Fasting........
Post by: ThePeacent on July 16, 2018, 10:12:43 PM
Are you guys trying to lose weight ?   :think:

that is not the purpose of this,
but it can be a desirable side effect of practicing this in the long term  :salute: