Multitool.org Forum
Tool Talk => General Tool Discussion => Topic started by: LJUSMC on February 11, 2018, 09:22:43 AM
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What I mean is, does anyone here find themselves carrying only a multitool, and not having an extra pocket knife somewhere on them as well?
Traditionally I’ve carried a Leatherman of some sort, but always had a dedicated knife; either a SAK in my pocket, or one of my Benchmades.
But I recently posted about how, back in 2004, i was deployed to Fallujah with the USMC and, even though I had a separate locking “tactical” knife, I found myself using my Leatherman Wave for every task imaginable; from cutting open MRE’s, cutting rope, paracord, removing splinters, everything. I guess back then it made sense for me to carry as little as possible because I had to carry so much more crap that was mandated (weapons, ammo, grenades, body armor, etc) and it also helped that my LM was on my belt and very easy to reach in any position instead if digging through my pocket.
So today, i got a Swisstool Spirit X in the mail and I’m already in love with this thing. And with the tools and knife being accessed from the closed position, I began to wonder if I could actually just use this as my only knife instead of carrying a separate one... I actually think I can.
I’m a police officer now, and I don’t see myself stopping carrying my Benchmade at work because I don’t have room on my belt for a multitool, and I carry a LM Rebar in my work bag... but for off duty carry I think I’m going to see if I can only use my Swisstool.
Anyone else do this?
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Hi LJ,
I did carry a Leatherman only back in the 90s. But since working in an office environment I've got a lot more use out of my SAKs. I do carry a Rebar in a separate bag though sometimes.
I actually change it depending on the situation.
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I carry only 1 piece at a time.
At work I have LM Surge or Charge TTI at my belt. They have great blade and I don't need separete knife. After work I carry LM Skeletool ... or ZT0450 ... or BM 940-2
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Define multitool
does it have to be pliers based, US made?
A SAK is a multitool. Many will just carry a classic or a manager most of the time.
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The Spirit X will perform just fine for about any daily tasks...
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I have been carrying only a Spirit X lately. I like a stand alone, and not having multiple choices or a lot of extra things in my pockets, whether it be a Jetsetter or a Surge. I also prefer pocket carry to belt and the Spirit feels very much like carrying a SAK, so it has been working well for me. :salute:
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If by multitool you mean “pliers based”, then nope. :P
I carry several modified SAKs, and usually the only blade I have is the little 58mm one on the Rambler/Manager.
That may change if I get a birth year SAK though. :dd:
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That may change if I get a birth year SAK though. :dd:
There should be plenty in the shops still :whistle:
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I have tried all sorts of things in the past. For years, I carried a Leatherman Knifeless Fuse due to work restrictions. I stop carrying it once I knew they had stopped production. These days, I only carry a Swiss+Tech 6 in 1 Util-key on my key-chain. I have found this minimalist tool meets all my day to day needs.
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That may change if I get a birth year SAK though. :dd:
There should be plenty in the shops still :whistle:
Hah hah.
Funny enough, it seems to be a rare year. I see plenty of ‘98, ‘97, etc, but no ‘99. :bnghd:
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That may change if I get a birth year SAK though. :dd:
There should be plenty in the shops still :whistle:
Hah hah.
Funny enough, it seems to be a rare year. I see plenty of ‘98, ‘97, etc, but no ‘99. :bnghd:
I seem to remember a lot of '99 blades showing up on Pioneers and Farmers. I had one, but I think I sold it, if it turns out I still have it I will let you know Pabs. :salute:
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That may change if I get a birth year SAK though. :dd:
There should be plenty in the shops still :whistle:
Hah hah.
Funny enough, it seems to be a rare year. I see plenty of ‘98, ‘97, etc, but no ‘99. :bnghd:
I've had a look now (etzy, ebay...) and can only find a 1998 :think:.
WENGER Delemont Swiss Army Knife 1998 SOLDIER ALOX Pocketknife
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That may change if I get a birth year SAK though. :dd:
There should be plenty in the shops still :whistle:
Hah hah.
Funny enough, it seems to be a rare year. I see plenty of ‘98, ‘97, etc, but no ‘99. :bnghd:
I've had a look now (etzy, ebay...) and can only find a 1998 :think:.
WENGER Delemont Swiss Army Knife 1998 SOLDIER ALOX Pocketknife
Ok, I’ll change my birthdate and get that one. :P :rofl: ;)
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That may change if I get a birth year SAK though. :dd:
There should be plenty in the shops still :whistle:
Hah hah.
Funny enough, it seems to be a rare year. I see plenty of ‘98, ‘97, etc, but no ‘99. :bnghd:
I seem to remember a lot of '99 blades showing up on Pioneers and Farmers. I had one, but I think I sold it, if it turns out I still have it I will let you know Pabs. :salute:
Very cool. :ahhh :salute:
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I have tried all sorts of things in the past. For years, I carried a Leatherman Knifeless Fuse due to work restrictions. I stop carrying it once I knew they had stopped production. These days, I only carry a Swiss+Tech 6 in 1 Util-key on my key-chain. I have found this minimalist tool meets all my day to day needs.
If only there was a small stockpile of BNIB Knifeless Fuses somewhere..... (https://store.multitool.org/departments/leatherman-knifeless-fuse-266.html) :whistle:
Returning to the OP, I will often carry just a multitool. Usually I carry a multitool and a SAK, but sometimes it's just one or the other. Dedicated knives have their benefits, but other than one handed opening (which is common on many multitools now) and slightly better steels, I just don't see the need for them anymore. Sure they look cool and feel nice, but they are expensive for a decent quality one, and they really can't do anything that a multitool can- and the multitool will do a heck of a lot more.
That really gets us back to why I started this site. I was a member of a few knife forums years ago and everyone looked down on SAKs because they were considered toys, while at the same time extolling the virtues of having the latest super steel and the strongest lock mechanism. There were many discussions regarding how you had to have a 50/50 combo edge because in a defensive situation plain edges would bounce off modern materials like Thinsulate. I refuse to admit how many of those discussions I participated in. :facepalm:
The reality was though that none of these guys were really using their sleek, sexy tactical folders for much more than opening mail, and when they were faced with a dirty job, or something that might dull that "sweet concave edge" like opening boxes (usually full of more high end tacticool folders!) out came their multitool or Swiss Army Knife because the edges were easier to maintain, and/or it didn't matter if they got dirty. Little by little, a bunch of guys on those forums started to realize that SAKs and multitools were not toys, and that they were well worth discussions of their own, and that eventually lead to the formation of this place. :tu:
It's a realization that I believe everyone will come to sooner or later, and that many are already there, and they are just in denial. Let's face it, an SUV or hatchback may not be as exciting as a Ferrari, but you'll get the kids to school and football practice, get groceries and lumber or go a lot more places with it than you ever will in a fine sports car. :D
Def
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That may change if I get a birth year SAK though. :dd:
There should be plenty in the shops still :whistle:
Hah hah.
Funny enough, it seems to be a rare year. I see plenty of ‘98, ‘97, etc, but no ‘99. :bnghd:
I've had a look now (etzy, ebay...) and can only find a 1998 :think:.
WENGER Delemont Swiss Army Knife 1998 SOLDIER ALOX Pocketknife
Ok, I’ll change my birthdate and get that one. :P :rofl: ;)
Let me know if interested it's 75$
I'll sent you the link via PM
Otherwise, I'll keep you in mind if I'll see one :cheers:
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That may change if I get a birth year SAK though. :dd:
There should be plenty in the shops still :whistle:
Hah hah.
Funny enough, it seems to be a rare year. I see plenty of ‘98, ‘97, etc, but no ‘99. :bnghd:
I've had a look now (etzy, ebay...) and can only find a 1998 :think:.
WENGER Delemont Swiss Army Knife 1998 SOLDIER ALOX Pocketknife
Ok, I’ll change my birthdate and get that one. :P :rofl: ;)
Let me know if interested it's 75$
I'll sent you the link via PM
Otherwise, I'll keep you in mind if I'll see one :cheers:
Already seen it, and passed. :cheers:
Besides being the wrong year, ebay doesn’t allow you to buy knives if you live on the British isles, right? :think:
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Well said Def, I agree. :cheers:
I do like my Spydie, but it's in the kitchen drawer and without clip, I never intended to carry it, but I use it all the time. It's mostly about utility for me, and if it's a fancy steel and a cool color, all the better, but it had better be useful first. :salute:
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Already seen it, and passed. :cheers:
Besides being the wrong year, ebay doesn’t allow you to buy knives if you live on the British isles, right? :think:
I've got my Surge via eBay from a German seller.
But got restricted to buy Loki's LM wrenches from Russia :shrug:
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LJ --
I did the 30-day Spirit Challenge with a Spirit X. For me, the Spirit X comes darn close to being a pocket knife with pliers. I found the 30-day challenge was a breeze using the Spirit X. But I did find myself missing having a SAK in my pocket......just because I'm used to having one around. Otherwise, the Spirit did everything I'd want in a mutlitool...or pocket knife. From a task point of view, I never missed a pocket knife.
Do the 30-day Spirit challenge and decide for yourself! :salute:
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Already seen it, and passed. :cheers:
Besides being the wrong year, ebay doesn’t allow you to buy knives if you live on the British isles, right? :think:
I've got my Surge via eBay from a German seller.
But got restricted to buy Loki's LM wrenches from Russia :shrug:
I had the same problem when I tried to get Loki wrenches of eBay
I wasn't aloud to buy them :rant:
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I mainly carry my LM crunch but when I go out
I always take my keys and hanging of my keys is a sak sd :tu:
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I carry a Knifeless Fuse for work reasons and either a Delica or CS American Lawman hidden in my pocket. If I ever need a blade I sneak it out or use a Chinese knock off SAK (which supports Def’s point I guess). Post 911.
Work restrictions aside truth be told I’m pretty sure I can get away with just carrying a Skeletool given my urban needs. But a dedicated knife feels a bit more secure in the hand and easier to clean. I do occasionally do yard work or house repair. Also the CS AL has a bit of nostalgia now. Hard to let it go.
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In the mid 1990s, I got a SOG Crosscut. At some point, someone convinced me that I needed to carry a dedicated knife, so I got a Spyderco Delica. Lovely knife. I never used it. Ever.
So, for literally 20+ years, I have never ONCE encountered a job that I needed to perform that couldn't be handled by the blade on whatever Multitool (to include Swiss Army Knife) I had on me.
So... no. I don't carry a dedicated knife. I only carry a multitool. Well... two, actually. :D
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I carry a Spirit all the time too and as great as it is I also need to get a knife with 1 hand too much to use the Vic alone.
If going extra light I leave the Spirit behind but I also feel naked without it(sorry for that image) and I end up reaching for it from instinct a lot anyway?
So usually it will be a Delica or this along with the Spirit if trying to be light.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180211/70efb008f4119df53533560eb4a13839.jpg)
Mainly I use any excuse to carry it that I can come up with!
Otherwise I always carry a larger folder too.
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I have never just carried a MT like a Leatherman or any other plier based one, only a sak. I have carried a dedicated folder like my Delica or a sprint run PM2 in the past but those haven't seen the light of day in a very long time! Now it is just a sak in the pocket and sometimes I will add the P4 (kinda testing out that combo) so I have small plier's if needed but don't carry it often as now I have a different pant style so I don't have the watch pocket anymore which I used for the P4 and my Olight!
I think part of the problem is that I really don't like belt sheaths and think the MT's are too bulky for pocket carry especially just to have loose in the pocket. I might consider carrying one like a Rebar or similar size wise if Leatherman would put out pocket clips for then. I do have a Kick that I picked up and was fortunate to find the matching pocket clip thanks to Fuzzy who was kind enough to send it to me, then I was able to get the screw from Leatherman so I have been thinking about testing it out and carry it using the clip and see how that goes!
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For pocket carry, it's always my beloved Vic Huntsman. LM Skeletool rides in the bike trunk bag, accompanied by the Topeak Ratchet Rocket.
So no need for a separate knife for me :pok:
:cheers:
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I have on occasion carried just a MT :cheers:
Been in a few challenges where I had to as well :ahhh :D
So yes I have carried just a MT before and it has always been enough :salute: I just like other options and don't mind carrying lots of stuff :D
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Good question LJ.
For years, I only carried a Victorinox Super Tinker. This was in the 80's, and Leatherman was just emerging. I was introduced to the concept of Leatherman in the 90's and picked up a knock off in late 90's
Eventually picked up a Leatherman PSTII, and loved it. But no matter how much more useful my Leatherman was, I always carried my Super Tinker, mostly just because I always have.
There was a time, though, when my Super Tinker was so damaged, that it sat in my sock drawer for years, and I carried either my Deluxe Tinker, or my Leatherman.
I carry my Rebar daily, and sometimes swap it out for my G1 Surge. I now only carry my Boy Scouts of America simple Tinker in my pocket, even though I very rarely - if ever - use it. There is clearly nothing on it that isn't already on a Surge or Rebar, except the BSA symbol.
So, force of habit I still carry both. Then, I back up both with another set in my day pack. But I could easily do without the SAK. Unless it's Alox, the scales tend to break and stainless Leatherman does not.
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Define multitool
does it have to be pliers based, US made?
A SAK is a multitool. Many will just carry a classic or a manager most of the time.
Only "US-made" must be off the list, given the popularity of Swiss-made Victorinox pocket knives and multi tools here, and the significant Chinese and Taiwanese production of American brands of multi tools! Even Leatherman has some precision parts made in Europe, and plier heads cast in Mexico.
Until I was in my 40s, there were no "multi tools." When they came around they were always pliers-based . Absolutely no-one called Victorinox knives multi tools. "Multi Tool" as a bit of new terminology designating Leatherman-like tools competed with oscillating multi-function power tools. Victorinox made pocket knives. The "Swiss" idea meant several or many tools on the piece. But they were always knife-based, with other tools. Leatherman and like tools were always pliers-based with other tools.
I never think of a Swiss Army Knife as a multi tool, but, I don't live in the English-speaking world, and language is always evolving.
But I like the blade-based vs. pliers-based distinction.
For normal urban use, I never carry a tactical folder, or any weapon-like flipper or assisted opening single-blade knive. Just multi tools, OR, a Victorinox pocket knife. And I prefer my SOG Pocket Power Pliers because it is light enough to toss in my pocket. My Power Assist has two assisted opening blades on the outside, but the inside tool selection is not the best.
Swiss Tool Spirit, yes with the serrated sheepsfoot blade, is also a superior general urban carry. Perhaps the best (and given that many prefer the other models of the Spirit). But my light little SOG PPP is so light it is my first choice among multi tools for general carry.
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Devils advocate....
Is a SAK really a knife based multitool?
If we define a multitool based on its “biggest” “most prominent” function, then it’s a very fuzzy area for SAKs.
Example:
What’s the most prominent function of a 91mm Special Mechanic(Mechanic Jr)? I’d say the pliers, or at the very least the knife and pliers are equally prominent.
What about the XAVT or SwissFlame?? Hmmm........
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In my vernacular, a Swiss Army Knife is not a multitool. For me a multitool must be pliers-based. But that's just a term of art. To each his own.
Now 11 days into the 111mm Challenge, I'm doing just fine with the SAK Outrider with its big, locking blade. No need for a dedicated folder. The Outrider does not deploy as quickly, but is far more comfortable in the hand than almost any folding knife.
(https://i.imgur.com/rY3Ymr5.jpg)
Outrider.
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In my vernacular, a Swiss Army Knife is not a multitool. For me a multitool must be pliers-based. But that's just a term of art. To each his own.
Now 11 days into the 111mm Challenge, I'm doing just fine with the SAK Outrider with its big, locking blade. No need for a dedicated folder. The Outrider does not deploy as quickly, but is far more comfortable in the hand than almost any folding knife.
+1. I gotta agree with all that.
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Guys, it's really simple:
(https://up.picr.de/31116775oy.jpg)
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I'm not buying into the "Is a SAK a multitool" discussion.
"A word means what I want it to mean, nothing more, nothing less" - Humpty Dumpty
The only tool I EDC is a LM Squirt P4. I mostly use the blade, then the pliers, then the awl. It is nice and small and smooth so works well for loose pocket carry. I usually have one of my vehicles close by, and each of them has an assortment of larger MTs if needed.
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I actually won't carry a multitool and a SAK together. But I will sometimes, and I don't feel like I have too, but an additional dedicated knife with either a SAK or a Leatherman. For fun.
But I will carry a Leatherman by itself for sure and feel just fine. Pliers, knife, tools... done.
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I've carried a Vic Spirit almost exclusively everyday for almost a year now and wouldn't have it any other way. Fits well and the pocket and has all the tools I need. People don't flinch when I pull it out to use it also
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Thanks for the responses, folks. Really enjoying reading the different opinions.
For clarification, when i started my original post, I meant multitool as in “pliers based,” ala leatherman or otherwise.
However, I do understand the opinion that a SAK is by definition a multi-tool, but in my mind I always classified them as “pocket knives.”
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However, I do understand the opinion that a SAK is by definition a multi-tool, but in my mind I always classified them as “pocket knives.”
I want to argue this as well. If SAKs are pocket knives, does that make the bladeless SAKs pocket knives too? :D :ahhh ;)
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https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,75355.0.html a discussion from a few weeks ago
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I carry three, just because I can and find them adequate for different tasks and needs I have every day.
Out of strict necessity I could get by with a good MT for all things (Rebar, Spirit...) or a SAK + pliers (yes, I need pliers quite often)
The OHO folders are there for ease and convenience of use, and because I enjoy them like I enjoy carrying a light, a watch or a good pair of work boots. :gimme:
(https://i.imgur.com/48H4vDy.jpg)
Some days I even carry more than one of the three items, because I like variety and to experiment with my gear, that's part of what makes you proficient with it. :climber:
(https://i.imgur.com/0Epqnwo.jpg)
As for MTs/SAKs and their labeling, I see a SAK as a knife with tools, hence the name, and Multitools as anything that revolves a diversity of implements built up over a design specific implement, such as pliers or shears :salute:
(https://i.imgur.com/nYVOraE.jpg)
Nowadays most carry a separate knife or the one on the MT and blades have evolved a lot, but ack in the day most people would rely on the SAK blade as their primary cutting tool, thus making the SAK knife centered in its original purpose and design,
that with the years got screwdrivers, saws, scissors, scalers, mag lenses and openers and other implements added to that template
(https://i.imgur.com/oqsOWbX.jpg)
to my EDC I always add at least one light, because it turns dark every day! :ahhh
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However, I do understand the opinion that a SAK is by definition a multi-tool, but in my mind I always classified them as “pocket knives.”
I want to argue this as well. If SAKs are pocket knives, does that make the bladeless SAKs pocket knives too? :D :ahhh ;)
But, by definition, it says it in their name (and abbreviation SAK)
Victorinox SWISS ARMY KNIFE or KNIVES :)
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I did carry just a MT ( plier based ) only, I don't anymore tho. Paring makes the most sense for me. I like to pair a SAK ( 84mm Tinker ) and Leatherman Squirt P4. My scissor is handled by a 58mm. When I do carry a MT I prefer OHO ( Charge TTi ) as it also serves as my main blade.
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I'll try carrying a SAK, Spirit or Charge combined with a folder soon.
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I've carried a Vic Spirit almost exclusively everyday for almost a year now and wouldn't have it any other way. Fits well and the pocket and has all the tools I need. People don't flinch when I pull it out to use it also
This is the road I'm on, trying for a year. :tu:
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Light carry for me would be just a Skeletool as a substitute for both a more complete tool set and a pocket knife. However, I rarely go out with just that. I just really like having a saw and scissors on me so that's where the SAK comes in.
I have completed many 30 day challenges where one tool was all I could carry so I learned to adapt, and overcome the limitations of the tool, but if not restricted by rules I'd much rather carry both a pliers based MT and a SAK that has different tools that compliment the pliers based tool.
For example, one of my favorite combos is a Leatherman Sidekick for the excellent pliers, one hand opening blade, and the saw, carried with a Vic Mountaineer for the additional blades, the scissors, the awl, and the metal file. this gives a good combination of complimentary tools without a lot of duplication or overlap.
I have carried my Spirit almost exclusively for several months as my MT of choice. I could carry it by itself (and have done so quite often) but I prefer to also carry a dedicated knife for convenience and/or a SAK for utility, as I don't mind the weight or the space a dedicated knife and/or a SAK might take up. Your mileage may vary.
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I actually often carry only a Rebar. That sucks because it is modded to be knifeless and if I forget a knife it isn't all too fun of an experience when a knife is needed
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My LIGHT carry is either my Skeletool OR a Rambler with a pair of screw keys. Those are my going to a political rally options, and the latter is my "haven't gotten as far as real pants today" selection because it goes on a neck lanyard (or a Minimalist).
But for normal carry, no. I carry a single blade folder or small fixed blade for one simple reason- have you ever smelt a Leatherman a week after using it to slice cheese and hard sausage? :P Fortunately, a PST can be boiled.
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My LIGHT carry is either my Skeletool OR a Rambler with a pair of screw keys. Those are my going to a political rally options, and the latter is my "haven't gotten as far as real pants today" selection because it goes on a neck lanyard (or a Minimalist).
But for normal carry, no. I carry a single blade folder or small fixed blade for one simple reason- have you ever smelt a Leatherman a week after using it to slice cheese and hard sausage? :P Fortunately, a PST can be boiled.
:o. what do you do with the broth then?
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That is why the Flair was made!
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That is why the Flair was made!
:rofl:
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That is why the Flair was made!
and if you throw a Skeletool in there does it become bone broth? :think:
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Yes & no
Never when I am out; its always 2+ knives/tools.
When I am just bumming around home in shorts or gym pants its just a Surge or Skeletool in my pocket or waistband
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I carry a Huntsman and a ST300 or another one of my Leatherman's. 1 handed opening is cool and all, but there's something about taking your time.
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:o. what do you do with the broth then?
Poured it down the sink. I get enough iron in my diet.
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:o. what do you do with the broth then?
Poured it down the sink. I get enough iron in my diet.
:rofl: :like:
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I carry a Huntsman and a ST300 or another one of my Leatherman's. 1 handed opening is cool and all, but there's something about taking your time.
A lot of times I will be carrying one end of something heavy and need to cut with the free hand which is indeed cool if I can do it.
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have you ever smelt a Leatherman a week after using it to slice cheese and hard sausage? :P Fortunately, a PST can be boiled.
I don’t use my pocket knives for food prep, I have kitchen knives for that LOL
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have you ever smelt a Leatherman a week after using it to slice cheese and hard sausage? :P Fortunately, a PST can be boiled.
I don’t use my pocket knives for food prep, I have kitchen knives for that LOL
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But if you aren't at home then you might have forgotten to bring a kitchen knife ;) Some guys take stuff like that to work to eat and use a folder to prep it at work :salute:
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When I do carry a multitool (which isn't actually that often), that's all I carry. Any need I have for a knife is easily catered for by the OHO knife/knives of whichever multitool I have on me.
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I'm in slacks five days out of the week, so my multitool is usually a key chain SAK, or maybe my Executive, which I just found after misplacing for an entire week! On a related note, I am shocked and appalled that it didn't fall out of the pocket of my pants that were hanging in the closet. Back on topic, my smallest multi, a Skeletool, is too bulky and hole forming for slacks, so I carry something a little more pocket friendly.
On weekends, jeans and shorts. Even in winter, because California. My rule is, if I have extra pockets, then I'll clip my multitool into one of them. As it stands, my phone, keys, wallet and bandanna all go into different pockets, with no room leftover for a multi. So, I take a multi whenever I have cargo shorts. Otherwise, it's typically the same as my weekday carry. I'm also working on warming up to a Swiza D04.
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I don’t use my pocket knives for food prep, I have kitchen knives for that LOL
I think if I took a kitchen knife to work, people would panic. It isn't the big knives in the block in the break room. It's just me with bigger knives.
You completely deadpan the suggestion that someone's head to be thrown a window to get their board's attention and everyone thinks the worst of you...
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It depends on what they day looks like. If I'm at work, I typically just carry a folder (James Brand Chapter), but there's a Vic Explorer in my bag in the office. If I carry my Surge to, say, fix some things around the department that the new kids broke, then that's all that I have on me. Granted, the heft of the Surge makes carrying anything else in my pocket a chore.
If I'm not working for the day, typically said Vic Explorer is in my pocket, along with an older 4Sevens flashlight in a Skinth P2.
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I don’t use my pocket knives for food prep, I have kitchen knives for that LOL
I think if I took a kitchen knife to work, people would panic. It isn't the big knives in the block in the break room. It's just me with bigger knives.
You completely deadpan the suggestion that someone's head to be thrown a window to get their board's attention and everyone thinks the worst of you...
Yeah I hate it when people interpret what you say as the ramblings of a psycho. :facepalm: :rofl:
They need to watch more Bill Murray movies.