Multitool.org Forum
Tool Talk => Gerber Tools => Topic started by: Sam Lim on February 15, 2019, 11:20:17 AM
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I am a rather big fan of Gerber but my recent warranty replacements from them is utterly disappointing...
I have a new diesel that I bought some time ago and it have a big gap between the cutter and just wouldnt cut anything. I blame it on the poor machining and bad QC for allowing this out of the factory.. I do have other diesels and they have no problem even snipping thin single strand copper wire. As I did not keep the original receipt of the diesel, my local agent ( I do not reside in the US) didnt want to help. So, I contacted the US side and they were very kind to do a replacement for me if I can send it to them but I will need to have a receiving address there. Fair enough. I sent it to the States at my own cost. First replacement came back with the same problem. I sent it back again and contacted them. Email them to take note on the next replacement and pls check before sending back to me. They said they are unable to do that as they belong to different dept or some sort..
Today, I received my second spanking new replacement with same smurfy problem.. I am so smurf... so is Gerber. So, in total I received 3 with the same problem. Why Gerber.. Why... :facepalm:
This is a rant on the QC of what is leaving the factory. I have to praise their customer service, their replies are pretty quick.
A short video. Was rather pissed so the setup and focusing was off... I can insert a piece of A4 thickness paper easily with some room to spare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP1CDJhIk34&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP1CDJhIk34&feature=youtu.be)
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I am a rather big fan of Gerber but my recent warranty replacements from them is utterly disappointing...
I have a new diesel that I bought some time ago and it have a big gap between the cutter and just wouldnt cut anything. I blame it on the poor machining and bad QC for allowing this out of the factory.. I do have other diesels and they have no problem even snipping thin single strand copper wire. As I did not keep the original receipt of the diesel, my local agent ( I do not reside in the US) didnt want to help. So, I contacted the US side and they were very kind to do a replacement for me if I can send it to them but I will need to have a receiving address there. Fair enough. I sent it to the States at my own cost. First replacement came back with the same problem. I sent it back again and contacted them. Email them to take note on the next replacement and pls check before sending back to me. They said they are unable to do that as they belong to different dept or some sort..
Today, I received my second spanking new replacement with same smurfy problem.. I am so smurf... so is Gerber. So, in total I received 3 with the same problem. Why Gerber.. Why... :facepalm:
This is a rant on the QC of what is leaving the factory. I have to praise their customer service, their replies are pretty quick.
A short video. Was rather pissed so the setup and focusing was off... I can insert a piece of A4 thickness paper easily with some room to spare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP1CDJhIk34&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP1CDJhIk34&feature=youtu.be)
That's bad news Sam :facepalm: Sorry you had such poor service from Gerber.
What do you plan to do now?
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Hmm.. I honestly do not know.. Its just one tool and its not like its a top range expensive kind of thing. Its the frustration and the many months and the shipping cost to and fro, twice.. :rant:
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That sucks, Sam :( I would not be happy either but also wouldn't try to send it again :facepalm: Not cool on Gerber's part that they can't check tools that they send out as warranty :dunno: Hope you end up finding a cheap reaplacement instead of having to mess with that one anymore, buddy :salute:
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I am a rather big fan of Gerber but my recent warranty replacements from them is utterly disappointing...
I have a new diesel that I bought some time ago and it have a big gap between the cutter and just wouldnt cut anything. I blame it on the poor machining and bad QC for allowing this out of the factory.. I do have other diesels and they have no problem even snipping thin single strand copper wire. As I did not keep the original receipt of the diesel, my local agent ( I do not reside in the US) didnt want to help. So, I contacted the US side and they were very kind to do a replacement for me if I can send it to them but I will need to have a receiving address there. Fair enough. I sent it to the States at my own cost. First replacement came back with the same problem. I sent it back again and contacted them. Email them to take note on the next replacement and pls check before sending back to me. They said they are unable to do that as they belong to different dept or some sort..
Today, I received my second spanking new replacement with same smurfy problem.. I am so smurf... so is Gerber. So, in total I received 3 with the same problem. Why Gerber.. Why... :facepalm:
This is a rant on the QC of what is leaving the factory. I have to praise their customer service, their replies are pretty quick.
A short video. Was rather pissed so the setup and focusing was off... I can insert a piece of A4 thickness paper easily with some room to spare.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP1CDJhIk34&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vP1CDJhIk34&feature=youtu.be)
This is a sadly incredible video, quite disappointing :(
Can other owners of Diesel confirm this? Maybe the pliers have been this way all the time?
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That's a shame, Sam. I like the Diesel too, and thankfully mine aren't that bad. I just checked mine, and they are closer than yours. I can't poke a piece of paper through like you can, but if I try to cut a single piece of paper, it will fold into that gap. Once there, it is clamped, and won't slide out with the pliers closed. If I try to cut a piece of paper folded double, it will cleanly cut one thickness, and fold/clamp the other. It will cleanly cut thin card though.
The only encouraging thing that I can think to say, is that in time it may improve if the two mating faced of the plier head wear, allowing the cutters to come closer together. However that doesn't help much if you don't use the pliers because the cutters won't do what you need :-\
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This is odd- I have only ever dealt with Gerber's warranty department once and they went above and beyond for me, even possibly breaking some in house rules to make me happy.
I had a similar problem with Leatherman once- I had sent them a broken Juice model and they replaced it with an even more broken Juice. Then when I sent that one back they lost it and refused to replace it until I brought in the big guns, telling them who I was and suggesting that maybe instead I should be talking to someone higher up... people I have direct contact info for. >:D
In Leatherman's defense, this was not their screwup, but the company they have contracted to manage their business in Canada, which made it much more important for them to look after customers since they are a contract agency with minimum standards to meet.
Def
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This is odd- I have only ever dealt with Gerber's warranty department once and they went above and beyond for me, even possibly breaking some in house rules to make me happy.
I had a similar problem with Leatherman once- I had sent them a broken Juice model and they replaced it with an even more broken Juice. Then when I sent that one back they lost it and refused to replace it until I brought in the big guns, telling them who I was and suggesting that maybe instead I should be talking to someone higher up... people I have direct contact info for. >:D
In Leatherman's defense, this was not their screwup, but the company they have contracted to manage their business in Canada, which made it much more important for them to look after customers since they are a contract agency with minimum standards to meet.
Def
Well, I didn't have any issue with the warranty/customer service dept. They were helpful enough and I do appreciate what they have done. They responded to my queries very quickly and they do make you feel assured that u are been taken care of. In this instance, I am not too sure I can say the same for their QC. I do really hope that I am so lucky that I got 3 lemons... I have absolutely no problems with their other models either and will continue to buy and collect them. Perhaps staying away from just Diesels at the moment..
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Sorry to hear about the poor service Sam, very disappointing. I does make you wonder what QC steps they take in production? It should be a simple check to test the cutters, even before they assemble the plier head into the handles. :facepalm:
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That's a bummer Sam :(
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Sorry to hear about the poor service Sam, very disappointing. I does make you wonder what QC steps they take in production? It should be a simple check to test the cutters, even before they assemble the plier head into the handles. :facepalm:
I only have trouble with Diesel(s). The rest of the Gerber models I have are excellent. Needs no checking. I can literally just grab one and put them to work straight away, and I am confident they will perform as they should.
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That's a bummer Sam :(
:dunno:
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Sam,
Are the jaws themselves misaligned(or splitting open side-to side during cutting), or are the aligned(with no play) and the cutters not touching?
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It does seem their customer service is good. As far as checking specific things for someone, you have to keep in mind that they likely process tens of thousands of warranty claims a month, with the entire system mostly automated. That is why the representative couldn't make the request. I doubt Gerber even repairs many tools, but instead, just replaces the bad ones and recycles the damaged/defective tools(they do have the US military contract warranty claims as well). :(
They probably don't even bother doing any real QC on the Diesel, as they moved production overseas to keep the Diesel profitable. :ahhh
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Sam,
Are the jaws themselves misaligned(or splitting open side-to side during cutting), or are the aligned(with no play) and the cutters not touching?
They are all new and perfectly aligned at the tip. There are no play in the pivot as well. The cutters are on pretty bad terms..keeping their distance and nowhere near touching each other.....
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I am surprised to hear of the troubles with the Warranty Dept..Personally I would try one more time maybe speak personally to someone again? As for the Quality I have had good luck with the Diesel and so have others who have asked me in day to day conversations about a good Multi for a Resonable Price
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They are all new and perfectly aligned at the tip. There are no play in the pivot as well. The cutters are on pretty bad terms..keeping their distance and nowhere near touching each other.....
Ouch. Must be a casting flaw. I wonder if these flawed Diesels are just a bad run and you have the worst Diesel luck? :think:
I wonder if you could use a punch and knock the cutter edges in a bit. :think:
I had some luck with worn tools with damaged cutters doing that before. But, that said, I have not tried it on a Gerber. Gerber plier/tool steel is the hardest MT steel I've used. :ahhh
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They are all new and perfectly aligned at the tip. There are no play in the pivot as well. The cutters are on pretty bad terms..keeping their distance and nowhere near touching each other.....
Ouch. Must be a casting flaw. I wonder if these flawed Diesels are just a bad run and you have the worst Diesel luck? :think:
I wonder if you could use a punch and knock the cutter edges in a bit. :think:
I had some luck with worn tools with damaged cutters doing that before. But, that said, I have not tried it on a Gerber. Gerber plier/tool steel is the hardest MT steel I've used. :ahhh
I don't see it as a casting flaw.
I assume that they grind the mating face of the two halves before they assemble and rivet them. It appears they're simply not quite grinding enough off, and not getting down to the cutter surface. They just need to check they're grinding far enough.
Now as this process is automated, it might be that variations in casting batches, means the grinding head has to go to a different height in order to assure that full clean up, but standard first component inspection and periodic instage inspection sampling should verify that this is happening. The other potential is accumulating wear on the fixture that holds the castings, so over a few thousand components, they are gradually sitting lower (or slightly out of square) in the jig, but again batch sampling should be finding these problems and prompting intervention.
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Only thing about grinding the two mated surfaces a bit more is that the decorative form(the cast in openings on the edges) of the plier halves would be noticeably uneven. Though, between poor cutter performance or slightly odd aesthetics, I'd go with the odd aesthetics.
Indeed QC should be catching the bad plier heads. It's not really a hard thing to check for. :facepalm:
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Only thing about grinding the two mated surfaces a bit more is that the decorative form(the cast in openings on the edges) of the plier halves would be noticeably uneven. Though, between poor cutter performance or slightly odd aesthetics, I'd go with the odd aesthetics.
Indeed QC should be catching the bad plier heads. It's not really a hard thing to check for. :facepalm:
Well, we're only talking about half the thickness of a sheet of paper on each casting half, so I'm not sure anyone would notice. And the outermost faces should be ground after assembly, so they'd still be flush, and the tips would still align too.
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Very true. Thanks, AW! I just looked at my Diesel and it has slightly uneven decorative "cut-outs". Not really something most people would care about if the pliers/cutters operated properly. Fortunately my Diesel has very low cutter tolerance.
For the life of me, I would like to know WHY they let so many defective plier heads leave the facility? Would the cost of scrapping the defective pliers cost more than the amount of warranty claims/shipping costs/customer service work?
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Only thing about grinding the two mated surfaces a bit more is that the decorative form(the cast in openings on the edges) of the plier halves would be noticeably uneven. Though, between poor cutter performance or slightly odd aesthetics, I'd go with the odd aesthetics.
Indeed QC should be catching the bad plier heads. It's not really a hard thing to check for. :facepalm:
Well, we're only talking about half the thickness of a sheet of paper on each casting half, so I'm not sure anyone would notice. And the outermost faces should be ground after assembly, so they'd still be flush, and the tips would still align too.
50, my bad if I misunderstand you. The cutters mating side are not grounded flat like scissors. The cutter's side I would think that they are casted.. Pardon me if I am wrong. I have next to zero mechanical knowledge.
A closer look at my specimen. The pliers tip are aligned and there is no play in the pivot.
U can actually see the gap from here.
(https://i.imgur.com/CvJwlh6.jpg)
Perfect tip
(https://i.imgur.com/rQN0AEJ.jpg)
With my next to zero expertise on this, I am thinking that this side is is casted.. I am pointing to a indent that starts to slope downwards.
(https://i.imgur.com/LYQZwJY.jpg)
You can see the giant gap from this pic.
(https://i.imgur.com/h8rg1Wm.jpg)
I have to say that though my 2 previous pieces have this problem with the gap, this is by far the most ridiculous on I have come across...
I am not trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, It is easy to forget the whole thing and move on. Most garbage MT that comes from China have this problem. In Gerber's defense, I have absolutely no problem with their other models. I may be just be the very lucky one to experience this 3 times in a row. Gerber, if this is a problem with your manufacturing process on the Diesel, u have things to sort out. It is a current model that u are still selling..
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Sam,
That cutter problem just seems absurd, especially with the photos. Almost like they are intentionally sending you the worst Diesels. :-\
Now I'm thinking that the machining couldn't be adjusted, even a paper sheet's worth, because of the way the pliers sit in the opening mechanism. If the Diesel head is cast like the MP600 pliers, then there isn't any room for them to compensate and they'd have to order new castings from modified molds. Maybe they thought they'd chance it to keep from starting the batch over? I am just throwing out hypotheses at this point.
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Thanks for those pics, Sam. That is appalling!
GLBM was right, they're bad castings.
The inside faces don't necessarily need to be ground, as they don't need to rub like scissors, but they should be FLAT, not angled like that, UNLESS the design intention WAS to grind them, and then the angle would give a clear visual indication of the grinding progression up to the apex of the cutter.
I would email that picture to Gerber, and show them what you've been sent. Tell them this is the third tool in a row that's had this problem, and that you're not prepared to incur any further postage costs, as you've already had to pay for the return of two tools.
Actually... no, wait...
Here's a pair of MP600 cutters to show what they should look like. Can you take a similar picture of the Diesel head open, showing an end view of the cutters please? That might be a better image to send to them, along with a comparative image (use this one if you want) to show what they should look like.
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Sam,
That cutter problem just seems absurd, especially with the photos. Almost like they are intentionally sending you the worst Diesels. :-\
:tu: Lucky me eh. Any one keen to take this as part of their collection? Could worth something in future. >:D
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AW,
Whenever Sam can post the head on photo of his Diesel, we can compare it to this one. My June 2015 Diesel.
(https://i.imgur.com/sr4vein.jpg)
The pivot is notably less quality than the 600 pivot you pictured. sheesh, I am starting to not like the Diesel. that is an ugly pivot at the bottom of those jaws. :facepalm:
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Dec 18 Diesel. I think.. 0871218K
(https://i.imgur.com/GMqboga.jpg)
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Sam,
Very perplexing to say the least. Yours looks nicer than the pivot on mine, but it also indicates different casting molds. Maybe someone thought they were fixing the ugly pivot and forgot about the cutters. :rofl:
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Pic of my BO diesel (2014?) attached.
Sam, your cutters don't actually look that bad towards the pivot, they seem to be pretty close to centreline, but they go a bit wayward towards the gripping area. Do they cut fine wire close to the pivot?
GLBM, yours seem fine. A bit of a poor complexion :D but otherwise, they seem to be on centre.
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Pic of my BO diesel (2014?) attached.
Sam, your cutters don't actually look that bad towards the pivot, they seem to be pretty close to centreline, but they go a bit wayward towards the gripping area. Do they cut fine wire close to the pivot?
GLBM, yours seem fine. A bit of a poor complexion :D but otherwise, they seem to be on centre.
They don't.. They only cut insulation and folds over the copper wire.. even when all the way in. I cant even hold paper in there. pulls straight out. :dunno:
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Thanks for the work to help figure out where Gerber is going wrong with the Diesel, AW!
Gerber would do well to bring your level of expertise into the manufacturing facilities. By the time you got done with them, the pliers would be cutting hair. :multi:
Looks as if the poor cutting is a problem with newer tools. Also, the bad cutters seem to be a more recent issue with Diesel owners.
Sam,
You may want to ask Gerber if they have any older tools available. Or if they would pay for an older version. I doubt they would, but it couldn't hurt to ask. :dunno:
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That's a real shame, Sam. Unfortunately there's nothing you can do yourself either. If there's metal where there shouldn't be, you can file it off, but if there isn't metal where there should be, you're out of look.
I'd still send them the photos, and tell them that for the third time, the cutters won't cut. Also do tell them that you've already paid for the first two to be returned, and you refuse to pay any more postage.
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hmm.. Thanks everyone for the response and feedbacks. :) I did emailed them about this issue so what I can do is probably wait. I probably will not send there the third time.. its just too uneconomical and I think Icannot take another disappoint again.
Just my rant on how things have turned out so far. While not being in the US, I can understand there may a limit to what Gerber's "Lifetime Warranty" can do. I dun think I can demand too much from their head office. By right, we will have to fall back to our local agents. If they insist that they require proof of purchase, there really not much we can do. Rules are Rules. Something that's a bummer for folks like us out of the States. The US warranty dept are helpful enough to entertain international consumers like me and send me 2 replacements and I do really appreciate that. :salute: I think all companies have their Philosophy and Vision on how they want their product to be and how consumers are assured. But as what many members here said before, even if a company that have a wonderful warranty program or even better, extend it to cover international, if what comes out of of their factories are not check, it makes no difference. :pok: All companies need better QC.
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A little update.. or rather a lack of update on this matter.. :-\
I sent them an email on this matter on the 15th Feb. There was no replies or whatsoever from Gerber. In fact I sent 2 emails to them, first was to ask them on a missing item. Their returned package is supposed to contain 2 items, a Diesel and a BG mini tool that is supposedly to be returned to me from warranty. To be fair to Gerber, the package that is suppose to reach me went through my forwarder and had been repacked before. So I am not sure what or where went wrong here. I had checked with my forwarder but they responded that they have only received one item and asked me to check with Gerber. I had used the forwarder to forward many, really many items and never ever had a single issue with them.
Gerber did not respond to my email.
2nd email was sent shortly after when I notice this problem with the cutter.
Gerber didn't respond either.
(https://i.imgur.com/qCBklJr.jpg)
In fact, during my first replacement many months ago, I did already email them on the cutter when I have received the replacement. There wasn't any respond from them that time either but I was really busy so I didn't think too much on the matter...
To further test my luck with Gerber Diesel, I ordered another SS Diesel from Amazon and it arrived today.. Guess what.... I think its not my bad luck but some serious flaws with their manufacturing process and quality control. I think there is no need to make another video...
Thank God for Amazon's incredible return program. This will be going back to Amazon.
(https://i.imgur.com/VMjwtMZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/werzpyz.jpg)
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That's a real shame, Sam. Mine is close enough to even wear the oxide coating off. I very rarely use wire cutters, so that wear is just from plier use, not cutter use.
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That's a real shame, Sam. Mine is close enough to even wear the oxide coating off. I very rarely use wire cutters, so that wear is just from plier use, not cutter use.
Your cutter looks perfect 50!
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I have a Diesel somewhere. Bought it a few years ago, and as soon as I took it out of the box I just thought it was a MP600 that was made in China. I never used it as I just bought one to have it. That looks pretty bad, but the big question is, how does it cut wire? I am just curious.
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I have a Diesel somewhere. Bought it a few years ago, and as soon as I took it out of the box I just thought it was a MP600 that was made in China. I never used it as I just bought one to have it. That looks pretty bad, but the big question is, how does it cut wire? I am just curious.
If tools can talk, it will be asking back Gerber the same question... How do I cut wire?!? But probably they wouldn't reply either..
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My Diesel cuts wire just fine, but then there is the fact it was one made before assembly was outsourced. Gerber and SOG really need to send teams of the engineers, that design the tools, to oversee the manufacture and assembly.
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If tools can talk, it will be asking back Gerber the same question... How do I cut wire?!? But probably they wouldn't reply either..
What I mean is have you actually tried to cut wire with it? I am curious how this flaw actually affects it's cutting ability.
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I was assuming, as many MTs as Sam has, he would have checked that. But, good question, Mike! :like:
I have tools from several companies that won't cut a single sheet of paper, but they make quick work of steel wire, electrical wire and zip ties. My most recent "high-end" MT was a second-hand SwissTool RS, and it won't cut sheets of paper, but it cuts wire just fine.
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What I mean is have you actually tried to cut wire with it? I am curious how this flaw actually affects it's cutting ability.
:) I always deal with copper stranded so it will strip the insulation, folds over the copper strands cleanly. I can imagine it will be the same with smaller gauge romex but I seldom deal with them. Hard wire is probably a no go with this cutter looking at the way the cutters are grounded. The diesels cutters from factory are grounded at a steeper angle and are pretty sharp I would say. But that gap just makes cutting impossible. The facing teeth are at least a whole mm apart where they are suppose to meet.
Yes.. I have tried cutting with all the diesels that was received.
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Thanks for the clarification, Sam! :like:
I figured you had checked that beforehand. :) :)
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Thanks for the clarification, Sam! :like:
I figured you had checked that beforehand. :) :)
:salute: it's the star of a pliers based MT. Dun think they can magically cut without any contact.. :pok:
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:salute: it's the star of a pliers based MT. Dun think they can magically cut without any contact.. :pok:
:cheers:
Well. You can. However, not quite like imagined. If you're in a tight, you can place the wire in the cutters and use your free hand to squeeze the jaw tips passed each other until the cutters meet. I have used that method on really crappy tools before. :rofl:
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:cheers:
Well. You can. However, not quite like imagined. If you're in a tight, you can place the wire in the cutters and use your free hand to squeeze the jaw tips passed each other until the cutters meet. I have used that method on really crappy tools before. :rofl:
:like: but doubt so in my case, the pivot is too perfect without any play, and with that channel, it's beyond hope.. Teeth may work better.. :whistle:
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:rofl:
My teeth hurt thinking about it. :dwts:
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My Diesel cuts wire just fine, but then there is the fact it was one made before assembly was outsourced. Gerber and SOG really need to send teams of the engineers, that design the tools, to oversee the manufacture and assembly.
I didn't realise the Diesel was ever made in house. When was the change?
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I want to say a few years ago(edit: probably wasn't that long ago). I remember seeing an article, but cannot find it now. :ahhh
My Diesel had "Assembled in USA with Global Materials" on the clam packaging. I rarely hold onto clamshell packaging. I'll look around some more on google tomorrow. :)
Edit:
Here is a photo I found showing the boxed version. It is written by the UPC. Hard to make out though.
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All this talk about this thing made me dig mine up! On mine, the box states "assembled in USA of USA and imported components". My cutters also appear to have no gap in between them. There is a 2012 date on the box so I may have had this longer than I thought. I thought Gerber was trying to manufacture more of their tools here in the USA. :dunno:
I still do not see why Gerber makes this when all it appears to be is a MP600. I own several MP600's but do not have time to get one right now for comparison. The saw may be different. Anyhow, I am digressing. It stinks that Gerber apparently has let the QC on this model go. I am going to guess that Gerber will not give you your money back for it. Maybe you can find an older version on Ebay?
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All this talk about this thing made me dig mine up! On mine, the box states "assembled in USA of USA and imported components". My cutters also appear to have no gap in between them. There is a 2012 date on the box so I may have had this longer than I thought. I thought Gerber was trying to manufacture more of their tools here in the USA. :dunno:
I still do not see why Gerber makes this when all it appears to be is a MP600. I own several MP600's but do not have time to get one right now for comparison. The saw may be different. Anyhow, I am digressing. It stinks that Gerber apparently has let the QC on this model go. I am going to guess that Gerber will not give you your money back for it. Maybe you can find an older version on Ebay?
:) Actually do not really need one.. Just wanted to sort things out with them. From my conversation with Gerber rep, Diesel is the model to replace Flik. The Mp600 is before even filk I think. Its a well tested platform and not going to retire anytime soon so I guess they just wanted to bring something new to consumer.
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I want to say a few years ago(edit: probably wasn't that long ago). I remember seeing an article, but cannot find it now. :ahhh
My Diesel had "Assembled in USA with Global Materials" on the clam packaging. I rarely hold onto clamshell packaging. I'll look around some more on google tomorrow. :)
Edit:
Here is a photo I found showing the boxed version. It is written by the UPC. Hard to make out though.
Thanks mate :cheers: the box for mine is long gone. I only hold on to them long enough to be sure everything works, and then it gets ditched, so I've no idea what mine said. :-[
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All this talk about this thing made me dig mine up! On mine, the box states "assembled in USA of USA and imported components". My cutters also appear to have no gap in between them. There is a 2012 date on the box so I may have had this longer than I thought. I thought Gerber was trying to manufacture more of their tools here in the USA. :dunno:
I still do not see why Gerber makes this when all it appears to be is a MP600. I own several MP600's but do not have time to get one right now for comparison. The saw may be different. Anyhow, I am digressing. It stinks that Gerber apparently has let the QC on this model go. I am going to guess that Gerber will not give you your money back for it. Maybe you can find an older version on Ebay?
Thank you for checking on that, Mike! :salute:
So, it would appear, the older US-assembled tools were likely to be less defective. We all definitely need to make sure we buy ones with pre-2015(or 16/17, not quite sure) to get good cutters. :ahhh
Thanks mate :cheers: the box for mine is long gone. I only hold on to them long enough to be sure everything works, and then it gets ditched, so I've no idea what mine said. :-[
Understood! :cheers:
I have started keeping only boxes that can be broken down to a flattened state. But, like you have been doing, I have been tossing a lot of packaging for less valuable tools. :ahhh
I really do hope Gerber gets the cutter issues sorted, because the Diesel is a fine tool otherwise. A step in the right direction for Gerber may be to modify the handles to accommodate the 600 pliers instead of the Diesel pliers.
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Thank you for checking on that, Mike! :salute:
So, it would appear, the older US-assembled tools were likely to be less defective. We all definitely need to make sure we buy ones with pre-2015(or 16/17, not quite sure) to get good cutters. :ahhh
Understood! :cheers:
I have started keeping only boxes that can be broken down to a flattened state. But, like you have been doing, I have been tossing a lot of packaging for less valuable tools. :ahhh
I really do hope Gerber gets the cutter issues sorted, because the Diesel is a fine tool otherwise. A step in the right direction for Gerber may be to modify the handles to accommodate the 600 pliers instead of the Diesel pliers.
Probably something Pre 16. I have 3 16th and they doesn't cut very well either. I usually use something around a 1mm2 copper stranded as gauge for cutter performance. I personally think these kind of wire are more demanding on cutter. Its either a clean cut or fold over. But of course this "test" is relative to my own needs.
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It seems no one at Gerber want to address the Diesel issue.. :think:
I sent another email to them last Sat with the original attachment and forwarded email but no one seems interested to reply. Both time, waited a week for their response. I think the last email I should be rude enough to warranty a reply from them but nothing... :facepalm:
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Very sad Sam that they are ignoring what is a very reasonable request for some form of response, even basic acknowledgment. This is what can put someone off a brand permanently. I hope you get a response soon... :dunno:
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They may have his email flagged to go straight to the trash email. Could have something to do with multiple warranty request fulfillments from outside of the US It may not be them ignoring the email.
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But that's their general enquiry email... It's a real bummer if they do that..
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I am just throwing ideas out. It isn't like it is a single person handling the entire email system, so outright ignoring the emails doesn't make sense.
One of the employees could have mistakenly marked your email address as a scam, thinking multiple exchanges could be a possible scam. It happens. Do you have an alternate email address to try sending from? And don't mention it has been exchanged before, as that could flag the new email.
Like I said, I'm just throwing some ideas out.
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Good idea to try sending from a different email address (and different subject).
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Hi Sam,
Thank you for your continued communication regarding this matter, we appreciate your patience and effort to bring this to our attention. To give you some background and context on the situation, and how multiple tools were sent out to you that didn’t meet performance standards, please see below:
The issue of wire cutters not cutting thin strand wire or paper on the Diesel multi-tool was brought to our attention and we are taking steps to improve this issue on our production line and to meet customer expectations. The issue was found to be a manufacturing tolerance between the 2 jaw sides to ensure the bypassing jaws cut large and small diameter wire well. Over time, the Diesel tooling has worn and therefore reduced performance in cutting small diameter wire. We have stopped shipping all Diesel models and are improving the tooling as well as current inventory.
Gerber has a lifetime warranty and we stand behind all our manufactured products. Making great product and meeting consumer expectations are very important to us and we will improve the product and make good with our great customers.
Thank you to the multitool.org community for your multi-tool passion and allowing this level of direct communication to our Gerber tool users.
(https://ibb.co/SvVZ2dB)
Eric Moore
Product Manager, Multi-Tools
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Hello Eric, it's most refreshing to see an open letter from a manufacturer in this forum. :hatsoff:
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:iagree:
Still, Sam still has a Diesel that doesn't perform as it should, yet has no idea when and if he will ever get a perfect one...
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:iagree:
Still, Sam still has a Diesel that doesn't perform as it should, yet has no idea when and if he will ever get a perfect one...
I'm sure he will now. Just need to wait until Gerber has their tooling repaired/replaced for the Diesel line. :tu:
Eric Moore,
Good work coming to the forum with this and addressing the issue. It has made me feel good about owning 50-60 Gerber multitools. :cheers:
I do hope you will take part in more of these situations in the future. That would definitely show solidarity in your resolve regarding the issues. Maybe next time the problem can he addressed before Sam(also an owner of dozens of Gerbers), or anyone in his position, has to repeatedly contact CS. :multi:
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Hi Sam,
Thank you for your continued communication regarding this matter, we appreciate your patience and effort to bring this to our attention. To give you some background and context on the situation, and how multiple tools were sent out to you that didn’t meet performance standards, please see below:
The issue of wire cutters not cutting thin strand wire or paper on the Diesel multi-tool was brought to our attention and we are taking steps to improve this issue on our production line and to meet customer expectations. The issue was found to be a manufacturing tolerance between the 2 jaw sides to ensure the bypassing jaws cut large and small diameter wire well. Over time, the Diesel tooling has worn and therefore reduced performance in cutting small diameter wire. We have stopped shipping all Diesel models and are improving the tooling as well as current inventory.
Gerber has a lifetime warranty and we stand behind all our manufactured products. Making great product and meeting consumer expectations are very important to us and we will improve the product and make good with our great customers.
Thank you to the multitool.org community for your multi-tool passion and allowing this level of direct communication to our Gerber tool users.
(https://ibb.co/SvVZ2dB)
Eric Moore
Product Manager, Multi-Tools
I thank you for your reply Eric!
It's always comforting to know that Gerber is listening to feedbacks from consumers and taking action to correct things. It's not easy for a big company to admit errors and you did that, beautifully.
Do hang around here often. :tu:
So now, there is a closure to this. They had send me a reply via email too. Big thanks to MTO and our big boss Grant. :salute:
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In that case, I didn't say a thing :D
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In that case, I didn't say a thing :D
:D They did list the Diesel as out of stock on their official website. :salute: I am really looking forward to them fixing the Diesel. It have one of the bigger cutter and will be great for wiring works. :tu:
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Huge respect for Gerber for stepping up like this. There are a lot of ways for them to handle it quietly and to everyone's satisfaction, but they took the hit, and more importantly are taking steps to rectify the issue for everyone.
If that isn't the marque of a quality manufacturer, I don't know what is.
I have to say that I have been involved in a few issues like this over the years with just about every major manufacturer (yup, even THAT one) and they have all handled it quietly, behind the scenes, rectifying the issue quietly and sending the member a replacement and maybe a hat or sticker or something, but I do not recall any of them openly admitting a problem, halting production and shipping of the affected model and dealing with it first hand.
I have always had a lot of respect for Gerber, and now that level of respect has increased significantly. :tu:
Def
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I think it is pretty neat that Gerber responded like that and acknowledged they have a Problem and are working hard to Correct it!..Mine currently resides in my Pick Up Truck...I looked at the Jaws awhile back and didnt see any Issues with mine I guess it was made before the Tooling Issue...Neat that Someone from Gerber joined the Forums..Most of Us here are Multi Tool Fanatics (Not in a Bad Way)..Impressing or Wowing here should translate in to Grand Slam with most Folks...Plus We all come from lots of different Occupations and Professions I have been a Soldier Managed a Security Service a Mechanic Warehouseman Technician and Truck Driver...I am Happiest that they Fellow ith a Bad Tool will get it Addressed sometimes it takes a bit because it takes a bit to get things sorted out..Myself the Few Times I have used them Gerber has been top notch..With one of the Original Multi Pliers well over 20 years Ago I sent it in with a Note as to how the Jaws got Broken(Steeping On Handle to cut Small Bolt for a Drift Pin) I figured it was Abuse and wasn't covered..I got a New Tool Back a couple maybe 3 weeks later
Dtrain
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Hi Sam,
Thank you for your continued communication regarding this matter, we appreciate your patience and effort to bring this to our attention. To give you some background and context on the situation, and how multiple tools were sent out to you that didn’t meet performance standards, please see below:
The issue of wire cutters not cutting thin strand wire or paper on the Diesel multi-tool was brought to our attention and we are taking steps to improve this issue on our production line and to meet customer expectations. The issue was found to be a manufacturing tolerance between the 2 jaw sides to ensure the bypassing jaws cut large and small diameter wire well. Over time, the Diesel tooling has worn and therefore reduced performance in cutting small diameter wire. We have stopped shipping all Diesel models and are improving the tooling as well as current inventory.
Gerber has a lifetime warranty and we stand behind all our manufactured products. Making great product and meeting consumer expectations are very important to us and we will improve the product and make good with our great customers.
Thank you to the multitool.org community for your multi-tool passion and allowing this level of direct communication to our Gerber tool users.
(https://ibb.co/SvVZ2dB)
Eric Moore
Product Manager, Multi-Tools
Please Visit Often! I for One am a Huge Fan of Gerbers Multis In Particular They are Priced Reasonably Enoughthat I dont feel Guilty beating the Snot Out of One or getting Dirty LOL Thanks for Helping Out a Forum Member and Thanks as a Company for Owning Up to a Production Quality Issue...Mistakes Happen How they are Fixed is Most Important
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Huge respect for Gerber for stepping up like this. There are a lot of ways for them to handle it quietly and to everyone's satisfaction, but they took the hit, and more importantly are taking steps to rectify the issue for everyone.
If that isn't the marque of a quality manufacturer, I don't know what is.
I have to say that I have been involved in a few issues like this over the years with just about every major manufacturer (yup, even THAT one) and they have all handled it quietly, behind the scenes, rectifying the issue quietly and sending the member a replacement and maybe a hat or sticker or something, but I do not recall any of them openly admitting a problem, halting production and shipping of the affected model and dealing with it first hand.
I have always had a lot of respect for Gerber, and now that level of respect has increased significantly. :tu:
Def
Agreed!
I own more tools by Gerber than by their Portland neighbour, and find them a very reliable company, with less hype and BS than the other company (though I will say, I didn't like how the Centredrive marketting was handled). My Diesel is one of my favourite tool, not just in onboard features, but in ergonomics, which is very important to me, and an area which Gerber often beats their competitors. A Dime is permanently on my keys, and other multipliers (mainly 400,600 and Balance) regularly get pocket time here. :salute:
Welcome to MTO, Eric, and thank you for taking the steps to both resolve Sam's issue, but also reassure the market that you are heeding the feedback you are given. :2tu: I hope this wasn't just a one off visit, and that you'll be willing to engage directly with us here at MTO more often in future.
While you're in a listening mood, may I take the opportunity to ask that Gerber seriously consider offering a tool steel alternative to your carbide cutters. I was a huge fan of the MP700, and the main reason I got rid of the ones (yes, multiples) I had and adopted the Balance instead, was the less brittle cutters. I feel the carbide inserts have been an achilles heel for me in the use of your tools, and while I do love many of your products, I now try to avoid anything which takes the carbide inserts (another reason I love the Diesel). For me, the cutters have always disintegrated before I've had cause to turn them for a fresh edge. A slight drop in hardness in favour of significantly increased toughness (something like ASP30 perhaps), would be a very significant leap forward for Gerber multitool users, without any design or tooling changes for the tools themselves, and I believe would put you in even better stead against your nearby competitor.
I hope Sam doesn't mind me dropping that in here. :-[
Thanks again for listening, Eric, and for raising your head above the parapet. It is very much appreciated, and we hope to hear more from you in the months and years ahead. :cheers:
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Classy move, Gerber.
I have a lot of multitools, but Gerbers are not the plurality nor do I own a Diesel. I think I might need to rectify that when their tooling has been redone and this line is available again.
:cheers:
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Hi Sam,
Thank you for your continued communication regarding this matter, we appreciate your patience and effort to bring this to our attention. To give you some background and context on the situation, and how multiple tools were sent out to you that didn’t meet performance standards, please see below:
The issue of wire cutters not cutting thin strand wire or paper on the Diesel multi-tool was brought to our attention and we are taking steps to improve this issue on our production line and to meet customer expectations. The issue was found to be a manufacturing tolerance between the 2 jaw sides to ensure the bypassing jaws cut large and small diameter wire well. Over time, the Diesel tooling has worn and therefore reduced performance in cutting small diameter wire. We have stopped shipping all Diesel models and are improving the tooling as well as current inventory.
Gerber has a lifetime warranty and we stand behind all our manufactured products. Making great product and meeting consumer expectations are very important to us and we will improve the product and make good with our great customers.
Thank you to the multitool.org community for your multi-tool passion and allowing this level of direct communication to our Gerber tool users.
(https://ibb.co/SvVZ2dB)
Eric Moore
Product Manager, Multi-Tools
Welcome to the forums, Eric. :cheers:
After you address the Diesel wire-cutter issue, maybe you can have a look at the Center-Drive wire-cutter issue?
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While you're in a listening mood, may I take the opportunity to ask that Gerber seriously consider offering a tool steel alternative to your carbide cutters. I was a huge fan of the MP700, and the main reason I got rid of the ones (yes, multiples) I had and adopted the Balance instead, was the less brittle cutters. I feel the carbide inserts have been an achilles heel for me in the use of your tools, and while I do love many of your products, I now try to avoid anything which takes the carbide inserts (another reason I love the Diesel). For me, the cutters have always disintegrated before I've had cause to turn them for a fresh edge. A slight drop in hardness in favour of significantly increased toughness (something like ASP30 perhaps), would be a very significant leap forward for Gerber multitool users, without any design or tooling changes for the tools themselves, and I believe would put you in even better stead against your nearby competitor.
I hope Sam doesn't mind me dropping that in here. :-[
Thanks again for listening, Eric, and for raising your head above the parapet. It is very much appreciated, and we hope to hear more from you in the months and years ahead. :cheers:
Of course I dun mind. That would be super awlsome if they did!
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As this has been several months, I am personally curious what Sam's thoughts on the replacement Gerber Diesel he has received or anyone for that matter. While I understand this thread hasn't had any replies in several months, considering the manufacturer responded I am curious what the outcome is.
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As this has been several months, I am personally curious what Sam's thoughts on the replacement Gerber Diesel he has received or anyone for that matter. While I understand this thread hasn't had any replies in several months, considering the manufacturer responded I am curious what the outcome is.
Gerber halted the production of the diesel at that time. They were very kind to send me a pro scout instead which I do not mind at all. If I am not wrong, Gerber started selling it again in their website. I am too very curious if anyone got one directly from Gerber to see if they had sorted out the issue. Getting from any reseller doesn't count as they may be very well holding the old stock that have issues.
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Gerber halted the production of the diesel at that time. They were very kind to send me a pro scout instead which I do not mind at all. If I am not wrong, Gerber started selling it again in their website. I am too very curious if anyone got one directly from Gerber to see if they had sorted out the issue. Getting from any reseller doesn't count as they may be very well holding the old stock that have issues.
I stumbled on this thread while searching for the Diesel. To answer the above question I received a Diesel as a warranty replacement for a 20+ year old Recoil that had seized in various ways. I just now checked on the cutters on the Diesel and the one I was issued works just fine - cutting both paper and small wires.
As the Diesel is very new, it is very stiff. At this point the notion of one handed, snap opening the pliers is impossible but that will change with time I expect. The form factor in hand is very different from what I've used most lately (Wave+, Rebar) so it will take some getting used to. But it will take it's place in my car's center console where the Recoil resided for years.
AS a side note about the Recoil I actually miss those pliers that shot out the front end. My model came with a sheath so I never had any accidental pocket assault issues. And it wasn't the pliers that caused the warranty issue for me. One of the pieces internally bent out of place on the scissors side so I couldn't open them fully. While playing with it I opened the knife fully and now can't close it because it's locked open. The first issue was the warranty issue, the latter my lack of maintenance I expect. Wish I had the tools to disassemble the Recoil as I could probably get it working again. I think I'm supposed to have disposed of them but can't bring myself to do it, as I'm sure many can relate.
Final note: there is no stamp indicating date of production on my Diesel at all.
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Classy move, Gerber.
I have a lot of multitools, but Gerbers are not the plurality nor do I own a Diesel. I think I might need to rectify that when their tooling has been redone and this line is available again.
:cheers:
I think that You will like the Diesel