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Tool Talk => Edged Tools => Topic started by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 04:12:03 AM

Title: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 04:12:03 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/lCRkWlN.jpg)


I had a chance to get my Garberg out for a little fun and use today. A great day for a hike: cold, but dry. Nice and sunny. As a I walked along, I thought about Aloha's thread about Iconic knives. The Puukko had been proposed as an 'Iconic' knife, which I'd agree with. Thinking about the Garberg though, I just wasn't sure the Garberg should be considered a Puukko.

These distinctions are arbitrary, but seem fun to contemplate: is the Garberg a Puukko?

Consider it in relation to these other Puukkos:

(https://i.imgur.com/cASWQuE.jpg)
Mora Garberg, Frosts Puukko by Mora, Ahti Puukko


Points in favor:

1. It's the right size for a Puukko. Some Puukos are shorter, some longer, but the Garberg seem to hit a happy, familiar zone with a 4.3" blade.
2. The handle is designed like a Puukko: not much guard,  nice palm swell, and allows versatile grips. To me it looks like a Puukko handle.
3. Straight spine. In my mind a classic Puukko has a straight spine. However, some Puukkos, especially those designed for hunters, may have a drop point. The Garberg has a nice short clip that seems to follow this design.
4. Flat spine. The Garberg has a nice flat spine, excellent for using a thumb to apply a bit of pressure when making precise cuts. And, that flat spine, 90º to the sides, allows one to throw some great sparks from a ferro rod.
5. Scandi grind. I don't know that all Puukkos have a Scandi grind, but I sort of think a Puukko should have a Scandi grind.
6. General purpose design. I think Puukkos were designed with versatility in mind. The Garberg likewise seems to be a general purpose knife, maybe with a bit of a bias toward 'bushcraft' or woodcraft.


Points against:

It doesn't look like a Puukko to me. The blade seems a bit wide. While the Garberg reads 'bushcraft' to me, I'm not sure it's as inherently versatile as the Anti Puukko pictured above. I don't have a lot of experience with this knife, but it has done really well with several mundane camping/woodcraft  tasks.

So, I'm curious to know what you guys think: Puukko or.....'Bushcraft' Knife...or both?

Now, I figured that I'd go for my Mora user badge while I was at it.  The above two Moras represent my entire Mora collection at this point. I had another Mora at one point, but gave it away. I've always been impressed by the value that Mora provides with their knives. That Frosts in the above picture was given to me by Mrs Nix over 20 years ago. I think she paid a bit over $20 for it. It's just a phenomenal knife and gets razor sharp. It goes into bags once in a while, but the handle is a bit small for my big paws, as a result it does not get much carry time.

The Garberg is a different story.

This Mora has a wonderful handle, and provides an excellent grip. The handle material is a resilient plastic that has a nice rubbery feel to it. I'd probably prefer wood or stacked leather or Micarta, but it's hard to argue with the practicality of this handle material: light, durable, waterproof.

My Frosts Mora has a laminated steel handle. Wow! Incredible sharp, and yet, still quite durable and rust resistant. One of the features that got me interested in the Garberg was it's steel. Mora is using Sandvik 14C28N steel. This formulation apparently creates very small carbides, allowing for a razor sharp edge. Edge retention was said to be good. I was intrigued.

So size, steel, shape, and a Puukko-like resemblance got me to pick one of these up. Pricey as far as most Mora knives go, but for the steel upgrade and full-tang design, I still think this represents good value.

I also liked the plastic sheath option. This lets the Garberg's sheath reconfigured in a number of different ways. The Garberg 'snaps' into the sheath with a reassuring snap. It is securely retained (within reason), but is easily withdrawn with one hand. For today's hike, the Garberg ended up being tethered in a side pocket of my daypack.

(https://i.imgur.com/IusWN4n.jpg)


Early in the afternoon, I decided to make some tea. I had brought a water bottle with my canteen cup and tea bags, but I thought it might be fun to make a fire and melt some snow to provide my tea water.  So first order was to get a fire together.

The Garberg did an excellent job making fine curls of wood from a pine stick. I find it tricky to make a decent feather stick from this brittle, twisty wood, but the Mora did a fine job. (I was just making a twig fire, so I cut the curls off to use as dry kindling.)

(https://i.imgur.com/EByWnyP.jpg)


The bandana just makes it easier to collect up all my little curls.

I collected up some tinder, added my curls and some dry twigs. I set up the fire between some rock I could use to balance my cup while melting my snow and bring it up to the boil.

(https://i.imgur.com/gromVgC.jpg)


While battoning apart some sticks to make more kindling, the edge of the Garberg touched a rock. (My bad) The edge took a very small chip. I didn't mean to test the Mora in this way, but it was interesting to see that it chipped with very little force. It's hard to read too much into this; steel vs rock never comes out well.

The spine of the Mora threw some great sparks. It took a few tries to get my tinder going, but the Mora did really well with that ferro rod.

(https://i.imgur.com/xmEhVor.jpg)


So, canteen cup went on the rocks and I kept feeding the little twig fire until it was really hot.

(https://i.imgur.com/YSCR8Hh.jpg)


Snow melted fairly quickly, but it took a while, and several handfuls of twigs, to get it to a proper boil.

(https://i.imgur.com/nveiLjM.jpg)


Note the water bottle is still full and my "Oolong Snow Tea" was nearly ready.

After tea, I made sure my fire was well out and soaked with melted snow. The canteen got a nice coating of pitch, but that will clean off with a bit of elbow grease.

Once home I took the Garberg to a couple of stones to grind out that chip. I have to say, the 14C28N sharpens quite nicely. And it really does take an excellent edge. After a a little while on the stones and a brief strop, the Garber was simply wiping hair off my arm. Feels like one of the sharper knives I own. And should be...as long as I keep the edge away from rocks....

 :facepalm:


Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: CallsignBadger on January 15, 2019, 04:31:32 AM
Nice Mora’s  :like:

I should buy a companion some time :tu:

And reguarding the classification, although I enjoy knives like these, I am not well versed in the differences  :dunno:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 04:43:31 AM
Maybe I'm not either.....  :rofl:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 04:43:56 AM
But vote in the Poll! 
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: CallsignBadger on January 15, 2019, 04:45:11 AM
 :oops: Will do  :rofl:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: CallsignBadger on January 15, 2019, 04:47:02 AM
I voted "I don't know", but by the looks of it, it could be a cross between both styles of blades
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 05:04:02 AM
 :iagree:   :facepalm:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: SteveC on January 15, 2019, 05:47:03 AM
Badge awarded , congrats !  :cheers:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: CallsignBadger on January 15, 2019, 05:49:13 AM
Hooray for Nix  :woohoo:  :cheers:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: SteveC on January 15, 2019, 05:50:22 AM
Nice pics Jack !    :like:

I voted yes it's a Puukku. Seems like it's a modern puukku with a full tang.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: RF52 on January 15, 2019, 10:20:14 AM
Great pics! And it sure looks like a lovely day to go hiking :like:
Congrats on the badge :hatsoff:

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: styx on January 15, 2019, 10:36:32 AM
congrats on the badge and nice write up.

as far as if it is a puukko, it might be hard to say without considering other styles. we've recently touched on the Barlow knife and to be fair LionSteel had some excellent modern Barlows with modern materials.
Maybe an even better comparison would be the Kephart knife. The original knife and the versions today are sometimes only connected by the name with the handle and blade profile changed, all sorts of grinds and yet it is always seen as a Kephart knife. On the other hand you have some makers who don't even want to mention the Kephart knife because of minute differences, so it has to be something personal.

For me the Garber is a an updated, modern version of the classic Puukko design that is still far enough from it to be it's own thing
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Mechanickal on January 15, 2019, 11:11:35 AM
:sa:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 15, 2019, 11:22:12 AM
I voted "No, it's not a Puukko, it's a Mora knife" ;)

Simply put, it's similar in use, function and partly tradition, but it and also the Norwegian Tollekniv are their own entities.

So, I would say Garberg is modernized Mora knife (Mora is much more than just a trade mark)  :cheers:


Also, no Finn would ever call a Mora "Puukko" and vice versa for the Swedes  >:D
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Mechanickal on January 15, 2019, 11:24:48 AM
:viking: :D

I'm undecided here...
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: RF52 on January 15, 2019, 11:26:03 AM
I voted "No, it's not a Puukko, it's a Mora knife" ;)

Simply put, it's similar in use, function and partly tradition, but it and also the Norwegian Tollekniv are their own entities.

So, I would say Garberg is modernized Mora knife (Mora is much more than just a trade mark)  :cheers:


Also, no Finn would ever call a Mora "Puukko" and vice versa for the Swedes  >:D
:iagree:

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on January 15, 2019, 11:51:46 AM
Voted don't know. I think it looks like a puukko, but that is based on assumption not on any meaningful knowledge... and certainly after what Alephy and RFingy have just said, I would be hesitant to contradict them as they're in a position to know a lot more than me.

Pssst Nix... still looks* like a puukko though...





*Doesn't mean it is.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Don Pablo on January 15, 2019, 12:42:47 PM
Voted don't know. I think it looks like a puukko, but that is based on assumption not on any meaningful knowledge... and certainly after what Alephy and RFingy have just said, I would be hesitant to contradict them as they're in a position to know a lot more than me.

Pssst Nix... still looks* like a puukko though...





*Doesn't mean it is.
Same boat here! I'm still unclear on what a puukko is. :rofl:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: hiraethus on January 15, 2019, 12:48:31 PM
My understanding is that a puukko is a traditionally styled small knife with a straight 3-4" fixed blade, rat-tail tang and a natural (wood, horn, leather, etc) handle.  The Garberg could be seen as a modern interpretation of the puukko, but it's not actually a puukko IMO.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Dean51 on January 15, 2019, 01:12:46 PM
My professional opinion is, I don't know smurf.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Aloha on January 15, 2019, 01:47:15 PM
I voted "No, it's not a Puukko, it's a Mora knife" ;)

Simply put, it's similar in use, function and partly tradition, but it and also the Norwegian Tollekniv are their own entities.

So, I would say Garberg is modernized Mora knife (Mora is much more than just a trade mark)  :cheers:


Also, no Finn would ever call a Mora "Puukko" and vice versa for the Swedes  >:D

Glad he said it   :iagree:.  With so much history for each style knife is their own thing.  Mora is as much a company, as a place, as a knife/s.  With 125 years and counting they earned it.   
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 03:01:56 PM
Also, no Finn would ever call a Mora "Puukko" and vice versa for the Swedes  >:D


 :rofl:   Well, there's that then, too...   :rofl:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on January 15, 2019, 03:06:08 PM
My professional opinion is, I don't know smurf.  :facepalm:

 :imws:  :rofl:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: SteveC on January 15, 2019, 03:33:18 PM
Would it be safe to say that it is a modern modified Puukko geared towards bushcraft knife  ;)
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: SteveC on January 15, 2019, 03:34:22 PM
I want to change my vote to .....sort of a Puukku    :D
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 03:36:14 PM
Let's just call it a Puukko.......  :dunno:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 03:39:31 PM
These guys think it's a Puukko:

(https://i.imgur.com/Ksx2CuX.png)


....and a bushcraft knife...  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Steinar on January 15, 2019, 03:47:29 PM
I voted "No, it's not a Puukko, it's a Mora knife" ;)

Simply put, it's similar in use, function and partly tradition, but it and also the Norwegian Tollekniv are their own entities.

So, I would say Garberg is modernized Mora knife (Mora is much more than just a trade mark)  :cheers:


Also, no Finn would ever call a Mora "Puukko" and vice versa for the Swedes  >:D
:iagree:

 :iagree:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: SteveC on January 15, 2019, 04:33:33 PM
It's a a Bushpuukkocraft knife :D
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Dean51 on January 15, 2019, 04:34:04 PM
My professional opinion is, I don't know smurf.  :facepalm:

 :imws:  :rofl:

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Dean51 on January 15, 2019, 04:36:12 PM
It's a a Bushpuukkocraft knife :D

Isn't it made by Moa? That would make it a Morabushpuukkocraft knife  :D
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 15, 2019, 05:03:28 PM
These guys think it's a Puukko:

(https://i.imgur.com/Ksx2CuX.png)


....and a bushcraft knife...  :facepalm:

In modern Finnish vernacular, "puukko" has become a generic word meaning pretty much any non-kitchen knife (cf. Hoover, Xerox, etc.).

Oh, and puukkos (and Moras) are excellent bushcraft knives ;)
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Aloha on January 15, 2019, 05:05:09 PM
All Puukkos are knives but not all knives are Puukkos so I read  :tu:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 15, 2019, 05:07:48 PM
Exactamente!  :cheers:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 15, 2019, 05:11:41 PM
As a side note though...

Finman 101 Leijonat puukko Made in Finland (https://www.motonet.fi/fi/tuote/7001378/Finman-101-Leijonat-puukko-Made-in-Finland)
(https://static2.motonet.fi/img/7/7001378/500/7001378.jpg)

This cheapo work puukko doesn't differ much from the cheap Moras, don't you think?
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 05:27:13 PM
Looks remarkably similar..... I may change my vote now.....  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 05:29:05 PM
AZ, give us a recommendation for a quality Finnish Puukko....  :cheers:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 05:31:41 PM
By which I mean a Puukko, not just any non-kitchen knife.....  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: CallsignBadger on January 15, 2019, 05:50:07 PM
I don’t know  :ahhh
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 15, 2019, 06:36:14 PM
I've always liked Marttiini Puukkos, there are other brands as well (and not by any means this is an exhaustive list, only what I've seen and heard of)

Roselli
Iisakki Järvenpää
Wood Jewel
Woodsknife
Varusteleka Terävä (really beefy work Puukkos, ask Fuzzy or Z-man about their opinion ;) )

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Aloha on January 15, 2019, 07:16:56 PM
Puukko "Tuohipää" by Pasi Hurttila.  Where the heck is this guy?  I've seen his work and WOW.

 
Show content
https://youtu.be/A4Jl3yVfIRs


Also Iisakki Järvenpää

Show content
https://youtu.be/pfSCdP97Fa0

This. I have no clue what he's saying but its a gorgeous knife.  Malanika Puukko.
 
Show content
https://youtu.be/eb9WjgeDq6k
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 15, 2019, 07:20:14 PM
The last one looks nice, but it's not Finnish  :pok:  :D
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Aloha on January 15, 2019, 07:21:41 PM
The last one looks nice, but it's not Finnish  :pok:  :D

 :surrender:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 15, 2019, 07:23:41 PM
There probably are different opinions about this, but mine is, if it's not made in Finland or by a Finnish person it's not a Puukko  :)
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Aloha on January 15, 2019, 07:30:21 PM
There probably are different opinions about this, but mine is, if it's not made in Finland or by a Finnish person it's not a Puukko  :)

 :iagree:  :hatsoff:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Steinar on January 15, 2019, 07:33:03 PM
There probably are different opinions about this, but mine is, if it's not made in Finland or by a Finnish person it's not a Puukko  :)

One thing I've noted is that people outside the Nordics rarely seem to "grok" the difference between puukko and a Mora and a tollekniv. To me, a puukko is clearly different from a classic tollekniv and I find it strange, but understandable that a lot of people see them as the same thing. The Mora and the tollekniv, on the other hand, I don't have much of a problem regarding as pretty much the same thing. The puukko, on the other hand, has a distinct identity.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Steinar on January 15, 2019, 07:36:41 PM
(But, do note there are specific "requirements" of a proper tollekniv, which a Mora doesn't fulfil. They are different, they are just much more similar to each other than a puukko is to either of them.)
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 15, 2019, 07:37:40 PM
I guess to most people outside the Nordics a scandi grind is a scandi grind, whether it's Finnish, Swedish or Norwegian...  :dunno:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Steinar on January 15, 2019, 07:38:30 PM
(But, do note there are specific "requirements" of a proper tollekniv, which a Mora doesn't fulfil. They are different, they are just much more similar to each other than a puukko is to either of them.)

(Also, tollekniv is really a generic term, I just use it very specific here, because I'm not writing in Norwegian.  :D )
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Steinar on January 15, 2019, 07:40:20 PM
I guess to most people outside the Nordics a scandi grind is a scandi grind, whether it's Finnish, Swedish or Norwegian...  :dunno:

Yeah, probably. But, we probably look and sound the same to them as people as well.  :D

That said, I wish I could get Tupla in Norway. I really like those.  :D
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 15, 2019, 07:40:55 PM
(But, do note there are specific "requirements" of a proper tollekniv, which a Mora doesn't fulfil. They are different, they are just much more similar to each other than a puukko is to either of them.)

Well, just as I said before, all three are their own separate entities, none of them are quite the same  :)
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 15, 2019, 07:42:02 PM
I guess to most people outside the Nordics a scandi grind is a scandi grind, whether it's Finnish, Swedish or Norwegian...  :dunno:

Yeah, probably. But, we probably look and sound the same to them as people as well.  :D

That said, I wish I could get Tupla in Norway. I really like those.  :D

PM me your address, I'll send you one, or few :D
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Steinar on January 15, 2019, 07:42:59 PM
(But, do note there are specific "requirements" of a proper tollekniv, which a Mora doesn't fulfil. They are different, they are just much more similar to each other than a puukko is to either of them.)

Well, just as I said before, all three are their own separate entities, none of them are quite the same  :)

Exactly, I was just trying to clarify my own position in the context of an earlier post.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 15, 2019, 07:47:59 PM
(But, do note there are specific "requirements" of a proper tollekniv, which a Mora doesn't fulfil. They are different, they are just much more similar to each other than a puukko is to either of them.)

Well, just as I said before, all three are their own separate entities, none of them are quite the same  :)

Exactly, I was just trying to clarify my own position in the context of an earlier post.

 :iagree:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 08:25:54 PM
There probably are different opinions about this, but mine is, if it's not made in Finland or by a Finnish person it's not a Puukko  :)

So...only Louisianan can make Bowie knife?   :think:

Only a Japanese knife maker can make a Tanto?   :think:

What if an American of Finnish and Swedish ancestry made a knife that looked just like a Puukko in New Jersey?   :think:

What if Russian emigrated to Finland and started making Puukkos?   :think:

Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 08:29:00 PM
One thing I've noted is that people outside the Nordics rarely seem to "grok" the difference between puukko and a Mora and a tollekniv. To me, a puukko is clearly different from a classic tollekniv and I find it strange, but understandable that a lot of people see them as the same thing. The Mora and the tollekniv, on the other hand, I don't have much of a problem regarding as pretty much the same thing. The puukko, on the other hand, has a distinct identity.

I've seen a few different examples of knives that are called Puukko. Just like the Bowie knife, it seems that many different-types of knives can be called a Puukko.

But, what exactly defines a Puukko, and how is that different from a Tollekniv? 

How is this Helle different from a Puukko?

(http://helle.no/media/2012/01/Fjellkniven-540x119.jpg)
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 15, 2019, 08:32:30 PM
There probably are different opinions about this, but mine is, if it's not made in Finland or by a Finnish person it's not a Puukko  :)

So...only Louisianan can make Bowie knife?   :think:

Only a Japanese knife maker can make a Tanto?   :think:

What if an American of Finnish and Swedish ancestry made a knife that looked just like a Puukko in New Jersey?   :think:

What if Russian emigrated to Finland and started making Puukkos?   :think:

Would you buy a Bowie knife made outside US?

Would you buy a Mora not made in Sweden?

Would you buy a Victorinox not made in Switzerland?

An Opinel not made in France?

 :pok:

And as I said, one made IN Finland or by a Finnish person...  :twak:

 :D
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 08:37:01 PM
There probably are different opinions about this, but mine is, if it's not made in Finland or by a Finnish person it's not a Puukko  :)

So...only Louisianan can make Bowie knife?   :think:

Only a Japanese knife maker can make a Tanto?   :think:

What if an American of Finnish and Swedish ancestry made a knife that looked just like a Puukko in New Jersey?   :think:

What if Russian emigrated to Finland and started making Puukkos?   :think:

Would you buy a Bowie knife made outside US?

Would you buy a Mora not made in Sweden?

Would you buy a Victorinox not made in Switzerland?

 :pok:


Bowie not made in the USA?  Sure.  Marttiini makes something called a Bowie.
Mora not made in Sweden? Sure.  Why not?
Vic made outside of Switzerland?  .....possibly.

Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 08:39:01 PM
And note, whether to not I'd buy a Canadian Bowie, doesn't make a difference to whether or not a knife could be called a Bowie.

A SAK made in Germany could still be called a SAK.

A Mora made in Taiwan would still be called a Mora.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 15, 2019, 08:40:46 PM
No, you would not, because for all these, where it was made defines what it is  :pok:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 15, 2019, 08:41:42 PM
Well, I guess we have to agree to disagree  :cheers:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on January 15, 2019, 09:05:04 PM
And note, whether to not I'd buy a Canadian Bowie, doesn't make a difference to whether or not a knife could be called a Bowie.

A SAK made in Germany could still be called a SAK.

A Mora made in Taiwan would still be called a Mora.

Weren't a fair few of the old traditional Bowies made in Sheffield, Joseph Rogers etc...?
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 09:05:57 PM
I believe most of the original Bowies were made in England.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on January 15, 2019, 09:16:09 PM
That's what I really wanted to say... but I didn't want to rub it in.  :whistle:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 09:19:08 PM
Thanks....so tactful of you.   :rofl:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: styx on January 15, 2019, 09:26:29 PM
and i believe i'm thoroughly confused now. they cut, and have comfortable handles - good enough for me
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Steinar on January 15, 2019, 09:43:09 PM
But, what exactly defines a Puukko, and how is that different from a Tollekniv? 

For my part, it's as simple as when I see a Finnish puukko and a Norwegian traditional, calling the Norwegian knife a puukko seems "wrong". I don't know enough about knives to put it into words in a proper manner, they don't look the same. They are similar compared to e.g. an American hunter and have much of the same philosophy, but to me they simply look different. It's like the old joke about porn, I can't define what it is, but I know it when I see it.  :)

Quote
How is this Helle different from a Puukko?

(http://helle.no/media/2012/01/Fjellkniven-540x119.jpg)

Well, we can start with how it's different from the Norwegian traditional. A tollekniv is an all-round knife with a predisposition for woodworking. The handle should be shaped like the body of a fat mountain trout (no blade guard or anything like that), it should be approximately 10-11 cm long (some people go as far as simply stating 10.4 cm). The blade should be a straight extension of the line of the handle, it should neither dip down in the edge direction like many hunters nor bow backwards like a steak knife. The cross section of the handle should be roughly egg shaped, with the point in the same direction as the knife edge. (If the cross section of the handle is an ellipsis, it's really not following the traditional philosophy.) What am I getting at here? The Helle above is a lovely knife for mountain trips, but it's really a modern extension of traditional designs, it's not following the tradition as such. I get that people want a word for “knifes the Nordics like and pair well with an axe in the woods”, but that means puukko in English means something different than in Norwegian and Finnish, I think. But as I said, I'm not not knowledgeable enough to give a quantitative definition, to me it's just that a puukko looks different than a Mora. (And the Garberg looks different from both. :) )

There are hardly made Norwegian traditionals any more. Most Norwegian custom makers produce knives in a style pioneered by Aasmund Voldbakken.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 10:02:36 PM
Very interesting, Steinar. I think you're right that the word "Puukko" is well known outside Scandinavia and, therefore, is prone to being applied to many Scandinavian knives of similar appearance/design. My confusion about what constitutes a Puukko now seems worse, rather than improved. Aside from the limited definition "a knife made in Finland", I'm more at a loss than ever. Perhaps it's best to leave the definition as "a Finnish Knife".

For curiosity's sake, could you post up a photo of what you would say is a traditional Norwegian knife? 

Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Steinar on January 15, 2019, 10:22:35 PM
Something like this, for instance:

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4-p7NtorHU0/R0KfuKDYhhI/AAAAAAAABdY/eYw-cR0mJc8/s1600/Einarsen-10a.jpg)

I agree it's pretty confusing, especially since even a small country like Norway have many local traditions, each maker has their own style, etc, etc.

Source for picture: http://kniver.blogspot.com/search/label/Bj%C3%B8rn%20Einarsen
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 15, 2019, 11:55:09 PM
Well that's just lovely.   :like:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Gareth on January 16, 2019, 12:14:33 AM
I voted "No, it's not a Puukko, it's a Mora knife" ;)

Simply put, it's similar in use, function and partly tradition, but it and also the Norwegian Tollekniv are their own entities.

So, I would say Garberg is modernized Mora knife (Mora is much more than just a trade mark)  :cheers:


Also, no Finn would ever call a Mora "Puukko" and vice versa for the Swedes  >:D
:iagree:

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

This is what I would say as well (but with less authority than these two ;)).  For it to be a Puukko it really would have to be made in Finland.  Even putting that aside I'm not certain the full tang wouldn't disqualify IMO.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Gareth on January 16, 2019, 12:58:48 AM
BTW, if anyone want to drool over some Puukko that are, IMO, works of art in steel, wool and leather; have a look at some of JT Palikko's work. (http://www.kp-art.fi/jt/index_eng.html)
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: styx on January 16, 2019, 08:18:36 AM
Something like this, for instance:

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/_4-p7NtorHU0/R0KfuKDYhhI/AAAAAAAABdY/eYw-cR0mJc8/s1600/Einarsen-10a.jpg)

I agree it's pretty confusing, especially since even a small country like Norway have many local traditions, each maker has their own style, etc, etc.

Source for picture: http://kniver.blogspot.com/search/label/Bj%C3%B8rn%20Einarsen

"small" country. somehow I think it is relative o one's perspective. but when it comes to traditions, i know exactly what you mean
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on January 16, 2019, 09:24:43 AM
I voted "No, it's not a Puukko, it's a Mora knife" ;)

Simply put, it's similar in use, function and partly tradition, but it and also the Norwegian Tollekniv are their own entities.

So, I would say Garberg is modernized Mora knife (Mora is much more than just a trade mark)  :cheers:


Also, no Finn would ever call a Mora "Puukko" and vice versa for the Swedes  >:D

Based on that lesson I would change my vote to NO  :salute:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Aloha on January 16, 2019, 04:43:48 PM
Whats interesting is Helle doesn't list any Puukkos on their site.  I may have missed something but I don't think so.  I have a Helle Viking which by the way is a lovely knife.  The Vikings blade resembles the blade of the Tollekniv and other knives mentioned.   While we'd like a catch all word to group these similar knives they are their own thing.   The subtle differences or simply their cultural identity.   It could be that the hundred years parallel development each has resembled one another.       

Can a Traditional Puukko be produced outside Finnland?  Can a Traditional Puukko be produced by non Finns?  Here's my very personal opinion,  No.  Its should be called "Puukko style", "Puukko inspired", "In the tradition of the Puukko", or something along those lines.   :dunno:   

There are for many very personal connections to culture, tradition, and history.  For me there is something to be said about the soul of certain "things".  Theres something to be said for the heart and passion that goes into certain "things".  Is this quantifiable?  I don't honestly know or actually care to be honest ( sorry if this sounds harsh  :salute: ).  What I do know is, however minute the differences, even if those minute differences are where the item is made, the Puukko, the Tollekniv, the Morakniv are their own thing.  IF only because the people of these wonderful countries say so. 

Sometimes the whole IS greater than the sum of their parts.  In some cases the whole has to include; culture, tradition, and history. 

If a group of American workers went to Finland and made knives that were identical to historical Finnish Puukkos would they be Puukkos? 

IF a cat has her kitten in an oven, does it make them biscuits?  This idea of a what a Puukko is is not one of semantics.  A knife is a knife is a knife which very well may be true however while all Puukko are knives not all knives are Puukkos.         

I hope this post doesn't come off as snooty or arrogant  :hatsoff:.  I honestly have a passion for any country, people, culture, and their identity and the things that they identify with. 

         
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Greg Jones on January 16, 2019, 05:15:34 PM
Great write up Nix and congrats on the badge, I voted I don't know  :cheers:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 16, 2019, 07:26:23 PM
Whats interesting is Helle doesn't list any Puukkos on their site.  I may have missed something but I don't think so.  I have a Helle Viking which by the way is a lovely knife.  The Vikings blade resembles the blade of the Tollekniv and other knives mentioned.   While we'd like a catch all word to group these similar knives they are their own thing.   The subtle differences or simply their cultural identity.   It could be that the hundred years parallel development each has resembled one another.       

Can a Traditional Puukko be produced outside Finnland?  Can a Traditional Puukko be produced by non Finns?  Here's my very personal opinion,  No.  Its should be called "Puukko style", "Puukko inspired", "In the tradition of the Puukko", or something along those lines.   :dunno:   

There are for many very personal connections to culture, tradition, and history.  For me there is something to be said about the soul of certain "things".  Theres something to be said for the heart and passion that goes into certain "things".  Is this quantifiable?  I don't honestly know or actually care to be honest ( sorry if this sounds harsh  :salute: ).  What I do know is, however minute the differences, even if those minute differences are where the item is made, the Puukko, the Tollekniv, the Morakniv are their own thing.  IF only because the people of these wonderful countries say so. 

Sometimes the whole IS greater than the sum of their parts.  In some cases the whole has to include; culture, tradition, and history. 

If a group of American workers went to Finland and made knives that were identical to historical Finnish Puukkos would they be Puukkos? 

IF a cat has her kitten in an oven, does it make them biscuits?  This idea of a what a Puukko is is not one of semantics.  A knife is a knife is a knife which very well may be true however while all Puukko are knives not all knives are Puukkos.         

I hope this post doesn't come off as snooty or arrogant  :hatsoff:.  I honestly have a passion for any country, people, culture, and their identity and the things that they identify with. 

         

 :iagree:

Puukko is very much a Finnish cultural symbol, just as much as Sisu or Sauna, neither can really be reproduced elsewhere...

I'd like to add that if you want to add some tag on Puukko-like knives, call em Scandis, that will cover Puukkos, Moras and Tolleknivs all, as they all have the Scandi grind  :cheers:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 16, 2019, 07:32:32 PM
Oh and Aloha... :salute:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 17, 2019, 06:59:24 AM
Here's my very personal opinion,  No. 

So do you think that a Cold Steel Bowie knife (made in Taiwan) should be called a Bowie-style knife? 

I find it hard to believe that if Marttiini moved their production line to Taiwan, we'd all have to change our references for their knives to "bushcraft knives" or "Puukko-style knives". Is that what you are saying?  Would you say a Taiwanese-made Puukko, sold by Marttiini, is not "a genuine Puukko"?  That might sound a bit xenophobic, really.

Cultural symbols encompass more than knives. Should American pasta makers be allowed to call linguini, "linguini"?  Or should they be forced to label their product "Italian-style noodles"?

How far do you want to take this idea?

Regardless, I'd argue it may be too late. The rest of the world has already coopted the word "Puukko" to describe a style of Scandinavian knife. That horse is out of the proverbial barn. We call linguini, linguini. Languages are not static or fixed, but evolve, and "Puukko" has been adopted by the English language.

AZ pointed out that the modern Finnish use of the word "Puukko" gets applied to all sorts of knives. It is no longer specific. All non-kitchen knives are Puukkos now, and all Puukkos are knives. Earlier I showed an example of a Finnish web site that referred to the Garberg as a "Puukko".  That was a Finnish web site referring to a Swedish knife.

To me, it appears there is no consistent use of the term "Puukko", either in Finland or the English-speaking parts of the world. And I think it's too late to try to hit the reset button on that one. The meaning of the name is evolving, has evolved. Contemporary knife makers outside Scandinavia are making and selling knives called Puukkos. Knives that may or may not look like traditional Scandinavian knives. The idea of the Puukko has taken on a life of its own. An idea is not defined by place or race.



IF a cat has her kitten in an oven, does it make them biscuits? 
         

Depends on the temperature of the oven. Assuming the oven is OFF, no, they'd be kittens. Just as a Spyderco Puukko, made in the ovens of Colorado, is called a Puukko. At 450º.....it'd be another story.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: styx on January 17, 2019, 10:28:55 AM
i still wouldn't eat that. even with Cholula.... mmmm cookies with Cholula
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Don Pablo on January 17, 2019, 03:25:03 PM
Now I'm wondering if my HMD phone is a Nokia.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Aloha on January 17, 2019, 03:58:01 PM
The Bowie is an interesting example.  From what I gather the Bowie as we now know it is not what Rezin designed or he himself said he designed.  It evolved as does many things certainly knives.  The Bowie knife is a very romanized knife and very American in the current iteration,  it doesn't however have cultural significance for me.  Its been said that the Bowie as we know it was a masterpiece of marketing.  Lots of people making their versions looking to make a buck.  Knives of Texas and particularly Mexican influence is more what the current iteration has become.  The knife described used by Jim Bowie was that of a "large butchers knife".  I don't think we'll ever know what that original Sandbar knife looked like so the legend, future iterations, his popularity of the time,  and more importantly his place in history has cemented what we now know the Bowie knife to be.         

So to me anything that resembles a Bowie as we know it now can made anywhere can be called a Bowie.  The knife Rezin described as a butchers knife was a commonly used to describe a wide array of large knives at that time.  In that sense I see how Puukko for many is used to describe any knife with a Scandinavian grind,  wood handle, no ricasso, flat spine, etc.  I completely understand. 

If we weren't confused already hows this.....  Yakutian knife is this also a Puukko?   :D.  In looking at knives that we could list as iconic I was running into Seax/Sax/Saex knives.  What was interesting was in the Old English definition it was used to refer to any knife.  In modern usage is used to describe a specific type of sword or knife.  I've seen some examples and they also look like Puukkos.  I was always confused because I've always thought a Seax was whats referred to as a broken back Seax  :dunno:.   In Scandanavia the term Sax is used for scissors  :think:.   I dont peak the language so what do I know.   :rofl:

Whats my point  :facepalm:.  The fluidity of words and especially words that attempt to describe things to people across oceans as being similar is fully understandable.  I guess my approach for this particular item on this forum was my attempt to bring some specificity.  If someones says Puukko and you envision a particular knife wonderful.  Its actually pretty terrific that this particular knife is known across a wide swath of people.  Puukko, Tollekniv, Morakniv, Yakutian, all fantastic knives whatever word is used by the general knife person to describe them. 
 

I wont touch the pasta example being of Sicilian decent  :salute: :rofl:.  Can we just call them noodles?  ( runs, hides ) Even tho my nona passed a while ago ( age 98 ) that wooden spoon she whacked us with at times still scares the heck out of me  :ahhh. 


         
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Aloha on January 17, 2019, 03:59:37 PM
i still wouldn't eat that. even with Cholula.... mmmm cookies with Cholula

I've never eaten kitten but I'm told you have to cook them puuuurfect for them to be any good  :facepalm:

I'll get my coat...................
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: styx on January 17, 2019, 04:02:20 PM
i still wouldn't eat that. even with Cholula.... mmmm cookies with Cholula

I've never eaten kitten but I'm told you have to cook them puuuurfect for them to be any good  :facepalm:

I'll get my coat...................

i'm a bit afraid to ask what that coat is made of. should I simply start singing the Cruella de Vil song?
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Aloha on January 17, 2019, 04:14:14 PM
i still wouldn't eat that. even with Cholula.... mmmm cookies with Cholula

I've never eaten kitten but I'm told you have to cook them puuuurfect for them to be any good  :facepalm:

I'll get my coat...................

i'm a bit afraid to ask what that coat is made of. should I simply start singing the Cruella de Vil song?

 :rofl:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 17, 2019, 04:31:12 PM

I've never eaten kitten but I'm told you have to cook them puuuurfect for them to be any good  :facepalm:

I'll get my coat...................



 :facepalm:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Aloha on January 17, 2019, 04:35:39 PM
If my daughter ever read that she'd be disappointed.  Luna, her kitty, is her baby.  Sorry sweetheart  ;).

Lord, not only am I going to be visited by my nona from the beyond to whack me with a wooden spoon, my daughter is going to be giving me the look she learned from mom anytime I go near her cat. 

 :oops: 
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 17, 2019, 04:41:34 PM
 :rofl:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: CallsignBadger on January 17, 2019, 05:48:16 PM
 :facepalm:

 :rofl:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Gareth on January 18, 2019, 07:23:43 PM
I suppose I think of Puukko in much the same way as "Swiss Army Knife".  Where it's made is definitely part of what defines it.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: ThundahBeagle on January 20, 2019, 01:16:30 PM
As a side note though...

Finman 101 Leijonat puukko Made in Finland (https://www.motonet.fi/fi/tuote/7001378/Finman-101-Leijonat-puukko-Made-in-Finland)
(https://static2.motonet.fi/img/7/7001378/500/7001378.jpg)

This cheapo work puukko doesn't differ much from the cheap Moras, don't you think?

If we put this Finnman 101 next to the Mora Garberg without any tang stamps or emblazoned names or logo on either knife, would we or wouldn't we say that they are the same type of knife?
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: ThundahBeagle on January 20, 2019, 01:25:57 PM
There probably are different opinions about this, but mine is, if it's not made in Finland or by a Finnish person it's not a Puukko  :)

While I do tend to be a purist because it helps me to understand definitions better, and while I DO prefer my Swiss Army knives made by the Swiss in Switzerland and my Buck Knives made in the US,  I have to wonder, then...can a Barlow be made by any other nationality than a British or American (specifically New England) if we follow this logic? So the Chinese R R's shouldn't be Barlows?  Is a Tanto blade a Tanto blade if it isn't made in Japan or by a Japanese person?

Would it be more correct to say that TRADITIONAL Barlows are British or American, and TRADITIONAL Puukkos are Finn, but that when the style or design graduates to a certain level of acceptance,  it becomes a knife of the world with origins in x country?
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: ThundahBeagle on January 20, 2019, 01:30:20 PM
(But, do note there are specific "requirements" of a proper tollekniv, which a Mora doesn't fulfil. They are different, they are just much more similar to each other than a puukko is to either of them.)

Well, just as I said before, all three are their own separate entities, none of them are quite the same  :)

What about maybe acomparitive thread or threads specifically defining each of these great knife types for those of us nowhere near Lapland who could use a bit of schooling on the specifics of each?
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: ThundahBeagle on January 20, 2019, 01:36:05 PM
And note, whether to not I'd buy a Canadian Bowie, doesn't make a difference to whether or not a knife could be called a Bowie.

A SAK made in Germany could still be called a SAK.

A Mora made in Taiwan would still be called a Mora.

Canadian Bowie would be OK by me. The northern-most stretch of the Louisiana Purchase was inot what is now part of Alberta and Seskatewan I think. Plus Canada has a similar history of pioneers, gold rushed and such.

To me a SAK must be made in Switzerland unless the Swiss Army gives a foreign company a contract to make knives for their army, in which case those knife specifically are included.

A Mora made in Taiwan may be a Mora only because the Mora company contracted to have it made, but is it a true Mora?
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Barry Rowland on January 20, 2019, 06:10:16 PM
I know this much.  I had a Puukko many years ago and it got lost in the many moves I've made.  A friend of mine who lived in Norway for decades gave it to me, and I used it for everything I could find for it to do.  In the back of my mind I have yearned for another one.  I think it was the sharpest knife I've ever used.  I have a couple Mora's, and while a fine knife, I just don't have that feeling for them like I had for that Puukko, or my Opinels for that matter.  I'm on the hunt for a reasonable replacement now!! :woohoo:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 20, 2019, 07:34:54 PM
Barry, HELLE of Norway makes a fantastic Scandinavian knife. V-grind, great steel, super sharp!   :tu:

And the Garberg takes a wicked nice edge.   :tu:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Barry Rowland on January 20, 2019, 07:40:31 PM
Thanks Jack!  That's exactly what I was looking for buddy!  The one I had didn't have any markings whatsoever.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: RF52 on January 20, 2019, 09:51:18 PM
And Helle doesn't make Puukkos :pok:

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: styx on January 20, 2019, 11:18:27 PM
Helle is an interesting company that manages to mix classic and modern seemingly without any effort
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 21, 2019, 12:14:38 AM
I know this is a Mora thread, but HELLE makes some very cool knives. Even if they aren't traditional. Speaking of which, I have a HELLE Viking blade I need to put a handle on......
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Barry Rowland on January 21, 2019, 01:30:05 AM
That Viking looks like a sweet knife!
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 21, 2019, 01:32:34 AM
Agreed.

I've had the blade for a few years now, just haven't gotten around to putting a handle on it....  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Aloha on January 21, 2019, 07:11:53 AM
Agreed.

I've had the blade for a few years now, just haven't gotten around to putting a handle on it....  :facepalm:

Did the handle not come with it or did it come off?  I have their Viking knife if its the same one you're talking about.  A nice stacked handle would be pretty nice. 
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: RF52 on January 21, 2019, 07:48:44 AM
You can get just the blade and make your own handle.

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: styx on January 21, 2019, 11:24:33 AM
oh they have quite a few sweet knives
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Steinar on January 21, 2019, 11:45:05 AM
Helle is the last Norwegian knife factory with their credibility intact, IMHO.  :tu:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Gareth on January 21, 2019, 01:39:53 PM
I have a Helle Symfoni.  Has to be one of my favourite knives I own.

(https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=80313.0;attach=418438)
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Aloha on January 21, 2019, 03:35:12 PM
You can get just the blade and make your own handle.

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

That sounds like a fun project.  Now that I think about it there are so many wonderful options. 
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Aloha on January 21, 2019, 03:36:13 PM
I have a Helle Symfoni.  Has to be one of my favourite knives I own.

(https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=80313.0;attach=418438)

Looks like a really comfortable handle.  Great looking knife over all. 
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 21, 2019, 04:25:44 PM
Agreed.

I've had the blade for a few years now, just haven't gotten around to putting a handle on it....  :facepalm:

Did the handle not come with it or did it come off?  I have their Viking knife if its the same one you're talking about.  A nice stacked handle would be pretty nice.

Sorry, Aloha. Yes, I bought the blade as a blade, not as part of a knife. (I don't remember where I got it.... :think:)

The hand is a wee bit short, and I think the is part of my delay in turning it into a proper knife.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 21, 2019, 04:27:43 PM
I have a Helle Symfoni.  Has to be one of my favourite knives I own.

Sweet HELLE, G!

I've got a couple HELLE's and they are each fabulous.  :tu:

They are very light for size (stick tangs and wooden handles), as such, they make for brilliant hiking/backpacking knives.  :tu:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 21, 2019, 04:39:56 PM
Maybe I'm wrong about the short tang.....

Dug the blade out:

(https://i.imgur.com/2dsi7Wk.jpg)


It doesn't look or feel too bad in hand.

(https://i.imgur.com/P6erhrx.jpg)


I was thinking about trying to use a die to thread the end of the tang, and then using a nut to secure the handle to the blade, but perhaps peening is the way to go.  I have to think about that. I think I'd need a good vise to hold the blade while I peened the pommel. My current vise isn't really robust enough for that. I might be able to improvise something.......

I will say that this HELLE blade is shockingly sharp for an unfinished knife.  :o
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: RF52 on January 21, 2019, 09:28:48 PM
Maybe I'm wrong about the short tang.....

Dug the blade out:

(https://i.imgur.com/2dsi7Wk.jpg)


It doesn't look or feel too bad in hand.

(https://i.imgur.com/P6erhrx.jpg)


I was thinking about trying to use a die to thread the end of the tang, and then using a nut to secure the handle to the blade, but perhaps peening is the way to go.  I have to think about that. I think I'd need a good vise to hold the blade while I peened the pommel. My current vise isn't really robust enough for that. I might be able to improvise something.......

I will say that this HELLE blade is shockingly sharp for an unfinished knife.  :o
The traditional way is to peen it on the end with some kind of brass shim type thingy

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Poncho65 on January 21, 2019, 10:17:50 PM
Great thread :like: :nothingtoadd: :D

That blade is a beauty, Nix :dd: Perhaps use birch bark pieces on the handle (I watched a Youtube video of it and that seems to be a traditional way to handle it before peening :cheers: ) :tu:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: SteveC on January 21, 2019, 10:29:06 PM
Maybe I'm wrong about the short tang.....

Dug the blade out:

(https://i.imgur.com/2dsi7Wk.jpg)


It doesn't look or feel too bad in hand.

(https://i.imgur.com/P6erhrx.jpg)


I was thinking about trying to use a die to thread the end of the tang, and then using a nut to secure the handle to the blade, but perhaps peening is the way to go.  I have to think about that. I think I'd need a good vise to hold the blade while I peened the pommel. My current vise isn't really robust enough for that. I might be able to improvise something.......

I will say that this HELLE blade is shockingly sharp for an unfinished knife.  :o


 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Barry Rowland on January 22, 2019, 12:13:06 AM
I have some great walnut I can send you Jack.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 22, 2019, 01:12:31 AM
Thanks, Barry. I really appreciate that. I've got a few pieces of nice hardwood laying around that I might use.   :tu:

The big challenge for me seems to be figuring out a practical way to clamp the knife securely while I try to peen the pommel end.  I've got a couple ideas that I might try.

I think I'll do a stacked handle with wood, leather, and brass. I'll probably go with some Maple for a bit of contrast. And it's a nice hardwood.

I sure said that like it would be straightforward....  :rofl:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: RF52 on January 22, 2019, 05:52:33 AM
:popcorn:

Sent fra min FRD-L09 via Tapatalk

Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Aloha on January 22, 2019, 06:48:19 AM
This sounds like a terrific project.  I like the idea of a threaded end.  Maple, leather, brass  :dd:.  Great looking blade to begin this project with.   :popcorn:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Poncho65 on January 22, 2019, 04:11:28 PM
This sounds like a terrific project.  I like the idea of a threaded end.  Maple, leather, brass  :dd:.  Great looking blade to begin this project with.   :popcorn:

 :iagree: :dd: :like:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: SteveC on January 22, 2019, 04:18:11 PM
Thanks, Barry. I really appreciate that. I've got a few pieces of nice hardwood laying around that I might use.   :tu:

The big challenge for me seems to be figuring out a practical way to clamp the knife securely while I try to peen the pommel end.  I've got a couple ideas that I might try.

I think I'll do a stacked handle with wood, leather, and brass. I'll probably go with some Maple for a bit of contrast. And it's a nice hardwood.

I sure said that like it would be straightforward....  :rofl:



Here are couple good videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDfoGTPC7vM

Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: SteveC on January 22, 2019, 04:34:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSb03TYBFr0
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 22, 2019, 04:53:40 PM
The second video is sort of what I had in mind.

Love his sheath!
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: SteveC on January 22, 2019, 04:58:11 PM
This is a pretty nice sheath as well  :tu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-nlMbKv-dg
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 22, 2019, 04:59:18 PM
 :iagree:  That's closer to what I'll try to do.   :D
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 22, 2019, 07:49:51 PM
Posted this one on some other thread few years ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USr_bQZeMuk

Slightly modernized Puukko  :)
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: AlephZero on January 22, 2019, 07:55:47 PM
Also from the same guy who made that video up there...  :D
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Nix on January 22, 2019, 08:03:58 PM
Sure makes a nice lookin' knife.  :like:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: styx on January 22, 2019, 09:51:59 PM
Sure makes a nice lookin' knife.  :like:

i'd say all of those are nice looking
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Barry Rowland on January 22, 2019, 11:10:06 PM
 :iagree:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: JK on April 23, 2020, 10:49:08 AM
Revive!

Apologies but I quite like this topic.

I'm Finnish, but I live outside Finland. For me a puukko is both a tool and a symbol. Not just a national symbol, but a sort of rite of passage marker and personal symbol. I do give them as presents to close friends as markers of events. For example, I gave one to my trainee when he completed training - which I find very ceremonial and suitable. I would have felt weird about handing a Mora or a Fallkniven as they are more tool and less symbol, while a traditional puukko is both (even if a Fallkniven would be more expensive, it just is not so personal).

Puukkos have also plenty of subtle personalisation options. Apart from the looks or materials, are you giving it to someone who enjoys the outdoors, hunting, woodwork, fishing? There's something very unique about whittling with a handmade puukko which is not matched by a factory produced knife (although a Mora 1/0 or a 106 are excellent compromises). That said, if I was giving a whittling knife to a friend to mark an event I'd rather spend £25-50 in a bit of a more obscure puukko than ~£20 in a traditional Mora. The sheath of the puukko is likely to be nicer too!  :whistle:
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: styx on April 23, 2020, 11:00:38 AM
I think Aleph had a similar sentiment
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Aloha on April 23, 2020, 02:56:17 PM
 :tu: Nice bump. It was a great topic. Lots of good discussions. 
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: JK on April 23, 2020, 04:02:58 PM
:tu: Nice bump. It was a great topic. Lots of good discussions.

Yes, I enjoyed reading it, plus it's the one I found in the forum I'm registered in :-D
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: JK on April 24, 2020, 06:23:09 PM
Btw, I'm going to say something completely sacrilegious here. If I had to choose a modern Mora that feels like a puukko: I find the Robust handles like my childhood woodwork puukko. Thick, comfy, spine. Short, dextrous, blade. The only downsides are the fingerguard and the lack of artistry. But as down-to-earth tools go, it's great.
Title: Re: Is the Mora Garberg a Puukko?
Post by: Spartan19 on April 25, 2020, 07:09:09 PM
I would say, yes a puuku. The garberg is a more modern version, but the basic design is still visible. Kind of like a kimber 1911. More modern and different metals. But still the mighty 1911