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Outdoor Section => The Outdoor and Survival Forum => Topic started by: Aloha on July 01, 2015, 04:34:53 PM

Title: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Aloha on July 01, 2015, 04:34:53 PM: Cody Lundin has 23 items and Dave Canterbury has his 10 C's.

Dave Canterbury's 10 C's
Cutting tool
Combustion device
Cover
Container
Cordage
Cotton bandana
Compass
Candlelight
Canvas needle
Cargo tape

Cody Lunden's Basic Survival Kit
1 gallon zipper-lock bags
Tincture of Iodine Tablets for water purification
Plastic Drinking Tube approx. 3 ft. in length
2 unlubricated Condoms used as canteens
Orange Flagging Tape used for signaling
Dental Floss can be used for sewing to fishing line.
Duct Tape (the more the better IMO)
Small Flashlight w/ spare bulb's n batteries
Magnesium Fire Starter
Bic Lighter
Wooden Matches dipped in paraffin
Firestarter Excellorent - cotton balls dipped in petroleum jelly
Magnifying Glass
Emergency Signal Mirror with sighting hole
plastic whistle
Space Blanket single use
Heavy Duty Space Blanket/ Tarp
3 Heavy Duty 40-50 gallon plastic bags
Paracord at least 50 ft.
Extra Knife made with carbon steel
Bandanna brightly colored/non camo
Basic First-Aid Kit
Topographical Map and Compass of the area

Anyone else use these guys lists to compile an outdoor pack?

Anyone add something not on these lists?
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: styx on July 01, 2015, 06:48:20 PM: I haven't used their lists and they both seem somewhat similar if you think about it since Dave's is more open and Cody's is quite specific.

One thing I'd add is a saw. Both of them primarily rely on wood to keep one warm and in some areas that might work while in other areas that can be tough even with an abundance of firewood. And their cover elements can provide only a very basic shelter, so again this adds to ease of getting the resources for a more substantial shelter
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: ducttapetech on July 01, 2015, 06:53:53 PM: Quote from: Aloha007 on July 01, 2015, 04:34:53 PM
Cody Lundin has 23 items and Dave Canterbury has his 10 C's.

Dave Canterbury's 10 C's
Cutting tool
Combustion device
Cover
Container
Cordage
Cotton bandana
Compass
Candlelight
Canvas needle
Cargo tape

Cody Lunden's Basic Survival Kit
1 gallon zipper-lock bags
Tincture of Iodine Tablets for water purification
Plastic Drinking Tube approx. 3 ft. in length
2 unlubricated Condoms used as canteens
Orange Flagging Tape used for signaling
Dental Floss can be used for sewing to fishing line.
Duct Tape (the more the better IMO)
Small Flashlight w/ spare bulb's n batteries
Magnesium Fire Starter
Bic Lighter
Wooden Matches dipped in paraffin
Firestarter Excellorent - cotton balls dipped in petroleum jelly
Magnifying Glass
Emergency Signal Mirror with sighting hole
plastic whistle
Space Blanket single use
Heavy Duty Space Blanket/ Tarp
3 Heavy Duty 40-50 gallon plastic bags
Paracord at least 50 ft.
Extra Knife made with carbon steel
Bandanna brightly colored/non camo
Basic First-Aid Kit
Topographical Map and Compass of the area

Anyone else use these guys lists to compile an outdoor pack?

Anyone add something not on these lists?

Well I don't adhere to there list, Dave's list is more inline to mine.

Nate
That's us mobile
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Gareth on July 01, 2015, 10:03:49 PM: I wouldn't say I've ever used them, but they both make sense. I like the more open list that Dave gives though.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: dks on July 01, 2015, 10:06:44 PM: so, they have no use for a mobile phone?
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Aloha on July 01, 2015, 10:15:10 PM: Quote from: dks on July 01, 2015, 10:06:44 PM
so, they have no use for a mobile phone?

Bad coverage even across town for me. Practically no coverage in the local mountains.

I like that both lists are pretty much the same. Cody's list is more of a shopping list rather than Dave's. Both lists give me ideas for what to pack ( guidelines ) rather than specific items.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: eddie1115 on July 01, 2015, 10:25:13 PM: I've used Dave's to kind of compare back to what I already have, but I hadn't looked through Cody's before. While I'm probably not going to change anything out, I might add some flagging tape.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Lynn LeFey on July 07, 2015, 04:14:01 AM: I see an absolute TON of people referencing Dave's list, either the 5 Cs or 10 Cs. And, honestly, I think there's some benefit to the more vague 'combustion' category than a specific item.

I also seem to recall the Cody does most of his stuff in the (much less forgiving) desert environment, compared to Dave's Ohio woodlands. For instance, a long tube for getting at water is going to be much more critical in the desert, most likely.

As I'm FROM the Ohio woodlands, and still live in the very similar Illinois/Missouri area, I tend to pay more attention to Dave's methods, but only because they're more relevant to my likely scenarios.

I mean, I like Les Stroud, but I'm not likely to need to survive on a desert island or in the sub-arctic, so a lot of the stuff I've seen of his is not that realistically useful. Not that I'll really be likely to need ANY wilderness survival skills. But it's a hobby... that might be useful some day.

For me, I think of Dave's list as a very good starting point. 'You should have these categories covered'. I'm comfortable figuring out HOW I'll cover them on my own, but seeing other folks' lists (like Cody's) is a great source for thoughts on cheap, readily available, reliable, portable solutions.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: SAK Guy on July 07, 2015, 04:28:21 AM: I believe Cody's list is aimed more at neophytes who need brand/item recommendations and Dave's is geared toward more experienced people that already have a familiarity with specific items/brands and just need a checklist to assemble a kit.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: styx on July 07, 2015, 10:06:28 AM: When it comes to gear lists, open ended is usually better as it lets you conform it to the environment. Although at some point one has to talk specifics and then a whole lotta crazy comes out.

Here is another interesting spin on the subject that actually makes sense (too many people trying to sell their own acronyms if you ask me)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L0V7JkEx7o
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: AimlessWanderer on July 07, 2015, 10:44:17 AM: Quote from: styx on July 07, 2015, 10:06:28 AM
When it comes to gear lists, open ended is usually better as it lets you conform it to the environment. Although at some point one has to talk specifics and then a whole lotta crazy comes out.

Here is another interesting spin on the subject that actually makes sense (too many people trying to sell their own acronyms if you ask me)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L0V7JkEx7o

Nice to see a vid without all the usual bravado and BS, and also that's generically themed rather than pushing specific products or brands :tu:

Acronyms can be a useful aide memoir, but can you really rely on remembering them or what they stand for when the adrenaline is pumping, or you're tired, hungry, disoriented?

Personally I have adopted or rather made myself a cue card. It's a small laminated credit sized card which has got a few prompters on it to help jumpstart my mind if the chips are down. It has got some of the common acronyms on, but as full words. Topics covered are reminders to stop and plan, first aid cues (CPR and hyperthermia), navigation, water, fire, heatloss awareness and prevention, general hazard awareness, shelter, signalling, food, basically a good cross section of what I'd need to get the old grey matter working for me rather than against me. It's not sentence based, but is just a collection of little prompters based around stuff that I know I already know, but might forget in the chaos of the moment.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: styx on July 07, 2015, 11:46:28 AM: Honestly, I can't even remember what STOP stands for. Outside of FUBAR, BOHICA and SNAFU, I'm not much for acronyms
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: dks on July 07, 2015, 12:55:43 PM: Sort of relevant - survival (but some food was given) :facepalm:
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/452355/Parents-James-Driggers-Crystal-send-daughter-woods-week

A COUPLE have been arrested after they punished their 14-year-old daughter for eating a Pop Tart without permission by forcing her to live in the woods.

Investigators said 33-year-old James Driggers and his 36-year-old wife Crystal sent their daughter off with just a flashlight, a whistle, a roll of toilet paper and a watch.
She was told she had to stay out in the woods for a week.

To eat the kid was told to meet someone at a fence at specific times.

The girl was found by authorities on Friday night – two days into her punishment.

The parents from Sumter County in Florida have been charged with child neglect.

She had been outside during severe storms in the state on Thursday night
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Aloha on July 07, 2015, 04:26:14 PM: Quote from: Lynn LeFey on July 07, 2015, 04:14:01 AM
For me, I think of Dave's list as a very good starting point. 'You should have these categories covered'. I'm comfortable figuring out HOW I'll cover them on my own, but seeing other folks' lists (like Cody's) is a great source for thoughts on cheap, readily available, reliable, portable solutions.

I very much agree on this Lynn :tu:. I'd like to see what Matt Graham and Les Stroud would include in a "general" survival kit. It would likely be similar to the core basics of what most survivalist would include.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: pfrsantos on July 07, 2015, 05:07:48 PM: Quote from: styx on July 07, 2015, 11:46:28 AM
Honestly, I can't even remember what STOP stands for. Outside of FUBAR, BOHICA and SNAFU, I'm not much for acronyms

Above all, don't forget PPPPPPP!

Show content
Seriously?!
Show content
You haven't heard it before?!
Show content
Well, it's just common sense...
Show content
Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 10, 2015, 09:09:18 AM: I can just see Ron Hood licking his lips when talking about rats :whistle:

Rodents are plentiful almost everywhere, I have wire and braid for snares, but I've never snared a thing in my life!
I got all-metal rat (x2) and mice (x2) traps to include in my kit....they don't weigh much.

I got the idea looking at tracks in the sand early morning in a camp site.

What do you think? Good weight or bad weight?
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Steinar on July 10, 2015, 11:08:35 AM: Quote from: Gerhard Gerber on July 10, 2015, 09:09:18 AM
I can just see Ron Hood licking his lips when talking about rats :whistle:

Rodents are plentiful almost everywhere, I have wire and braid for snares, but I've never snared a thing in my life!
I got all-metal rat (x2) and mice (x2) traps to include in my kit....they don't weigh much.

I got the idea looking at tracks in the sand early morning in a camp site.

What do you think? Good weight or bad weight?

Speaking from experiments done in Scandinavia by the Swedish army: Even fishing is pretty much a waste of time in a survival scenario. The most efficient way of getting calories is gathering plants, including lichens. Now, what is correct for the sub-arctic forest is probably not correct in South-Africa. In other words, only someone having a good knowledge of the areas you prepare for can answer the question, IMHO.

The best survival gear I know of is a good rain coat and a sturdy pair of boots. I have a suspicion people living in deserts do not agree.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: styx on July 10, 2015, 12:01:34 PM: Quote from: Gerhard Gerber on July 10, 2015, 09:09:18 AM
I can just see Ron Hood licking his lips when talking about rats :whistle:

Rodents are plentiful almost everywhere, I have wire and braid for snares, but I've never snared a thing in my life!
I got all-metal rat (x2) and mice (x2) traps to include in my kit....they don't weigh much.

I got the idea looking at tracks in the sand early morning in a camp site.

What do you think? Good weight or bad weight?

Unless you're really willing to try it out and see how effective it is, then it's simply bad weight. On the other hand there are traps that offer higher chances of catching something like the ojibwe bird snare, however I somehow doubt it's effectiveness in the middle of a dense forest. Which goes along the lines of what Steinar said
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 14, 2015, 04:35:34 PM: Hi
Quote
Even fishing is pretty much a waste of time in a survival scenario.
Then the fishing must be tough.

Water is scarce in this part of the world, but I'm pretty sure fishing is the easiest way to sustain yourself should you be close to any water.
I guess it helps that the water doesn't freeze over here? Fishing might be slow during winter, but it doesn't go away completely.
Edible local plants on the other hand are extremely limited.
I know more edible plants than the average person, but as soon as you go below ground where the best stuff are, I'm lost.

My one big doubt stems from my size and the quantities I eat, even now while I'm losing weight.....
I doubt I could sustain myself with 4 traps, even with 100% strike rate....
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: styx on July 14, 2015, 06:04:17 PM: Sustain yourself for how long? 72 hours you're clear, 6 months, you're smurfed
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Steinar on July 15, 2015, 10:00:28 AM: Quote from: Gerhard Gerber on July 14, 2015, 04:35:34 PM
Hi
Quote
Even fishing is pretty much a waste of time in a survival scenario.
Then the fishing must be tough.

Water is scarce in this part of the world, but I'm pretty sure fishing is the easiest way to sustain yourself should you be close to any water.
I guess it helps that the water doesn't freeze over here? Fishing might be slow during winter, but it doesn't go away completely.
Edible local plants on the other hand are extremely limited.
I know more edible plants than the average person, but as soon as you go below ground where the best stuff are, I'm lost.

I feel this confirms my statement area knowledge is everything, and what is right in Scandinavia isn't necessarily right in South-Africa. :) That said, why not learn about the good stuff below ground as well, then? Knowledge weighs less and is more valuable than traps.

Quote
My one big doubt stems from my size and the quantities I eat, even now while I'm losing weight.....
I doubt I could sustain myself with 4 traps, even with 100% strike rate....

When it comes to food, a little is better than nothing. With a little food (but too little stay comfortable), you will still be able to work and walk for more days before having to stop, than with no food at all. With no food, you loose your ability to work and plan so much faster.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Obi1shinobee on July 15, 2015, 11:40:58 AM: 10'c :whistle:
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 15, 2015, 12:29:57 PM: Quote from: styx on July 14, 2015, 06:04:17 PM
Sustain yourself for how long? 72 hours you're clear, 6 months, you're smurfed
Depending on the season and if there's water, I'm pretty sure I can make 72 hours with only the basics like a knife and ferro rod.
:D You're most likely right, but my thinking is long term.

There are several places that barring illness or injury, I'm sure I could survive long term. I suspect finding a source of Vitamin C will be an issue.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 15, 2015, 12:43:33 PM: Quote
I feel this confirms my statement area knowledge is everything, and what is right in Scandinavia isn't necessarily right in South-Africa. :) That said, why not learn about the good stuff below ground as well, then? Knowledge weighs less and is more valuable than traps.
For sure, nothing beats local knowledge

Much easier said than done, the knowledge of the Bushmen take a lifetime to learn. I've been part of a group looking for tubers for several hours that resulted in 2 small finds by the only person with experience in the group...
Your looking for a tiny dead plant above ground.......or even just a crack in the ground.

The part or the Orange river I'm familiar with runs through a desert, and except for during floods I'm sure you can catch enough fish to sustain yourself in a few minutes every day.....might take longer to find bait!

That could be done with a little bit of line and some hooks. If you don't have the basics, then good luck.
I spent enough time there to know you'd be wasting your time spear fishing....or any other method I can think of...
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Dr Hunt on July 29, 2015, 05:09:34 AM: Quote from: 50ft-trad on July 07, 2015, 10:44:17 AM
Quote from: styx on July 07, 2015, 10:06:28 AM
When it comes to gear lists, open ended is usually better as it lets you conform it to the environment. Although at some point one has to talk specifics and then a whole lotta crazy comes out.

Here is another interesting spin on the subject that actually makes sense (too many people trying to sell their own acronyms if you ask me)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L0V7JkEx7o

Nice to see a vid without all the usual bravado and BS, and also that's generically themed rather than pushing specific products or brands :tu:

Acronyms can be a useful aide memoir, but can you really rely on remembering them or what they stand for when the adrenaline is pumping, or you're tired, hungry, disoriented?

Personally I have adopted or rather made myself a cue card. It's a small laminated credit sized card which has got a few prompters on it to help jumpstart my mind if the chips are down. It has got some of the common acronyms on, but as full words. Topics covered are reminders to stop and plan, first aid cues (CPR and hyperthermia), navigation, water, fire, heatloss awareness and prevention, general hazard awareness, shelter, signalling, food, basically a good cross section of what I'd need to get the old grey matter working for me rather than against me. It's not sentence based, but is just a collection of little prompters based around stuff that I know I already know, but might forget in the chaos of the moment.

50, cue cards are brilliant to have when adrenaline and tunnel vision kicks in, especially for new outdoor people. Will you mind sharing the designs with MTO guys?

The first survival (military) acronym I remember is the SAS's PRWF, Please Remember What's First. Protection, Rescue, Water, Food.

For personal use, I'll add Communication in Dave Canterbury's list. E.g. mirror, whistle, luminous textile, gps phone/beacon. Candy, for the small pleasure in dire situation.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: styx on July 29, 2015, 10:07:07 AM: I wonder if other very well known guys like Ron Hood, Ray Mears and Les Stroud ever put out a list like this
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Aloha on July 29, 2015, 11:42:26 PM: Quote from: styx on July 29, 2015, 10:07:07 AM
I wonder if other very well known guys like Ron Hood, Ray Mears and Les Stroud ever put out a list like this

I did have a quick look on line to no avail. Cody's list is what is contained in his book 98.6 degrees.

I think the more well know and lesser known experienced adventurers/survivalists have more or less similar gear choices. Guys like Dave seem to keep it basic in terms of his 10 C's however the individual components are specific. He likes a certain style knife and prefers certain materials for clothes and such. Cody also has preferences to clothing or not :D ( shoes ) and knife type.

From what I've seen a good kit when traveling out doors is made up of certain items. The choices in these items is less important for example blade steel than the item itself, cutting tool. Important of all is getting out and using the gear in the kit not to mention actually having the gear on you.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Etherealicer on July 30, 2015, 10:26:45 AM: Whenever I read these lists I wonder what they are for :think:
They sound like something you would pack for adventure camping, all seem to focus on staying in trouble, rather than getting you out.

I think these kits are supposed to help you, when you are lost, but they all kinda miss the point... you still will be lost!
Unless I'm badly wounded, I would try to walk until I'm safe

REMEMBER humans are chase predators, we can walk for an incredible long distance, every day! Humans are actually pretty bad smurfs in their wild form, we can out-walk a horse. It's no wonder wolves are our favorite hunting companion, its one of the very few animals that can keep the pace.
World record for walking on the road is more than 430km in 48h :o or almost 370km for women :o
The longest I have ever hiked was 70km (during my time in the military) and I would not consider myself particularly fit (especially not back then). If someone really had pushed me, I could have gone further and I did not feel terrible the next day. I expect in a dire situation I can go a great deal further (maybe not 430km, that is just incredible).

Of course its even better to avoid situations like this, so preparation is critical:
- Don't overdo it / know your limitations
- Don't go in bad weather conditions
- Tell somebody, when and where you are going and when you are supposed to be back (I mean what good is signaling, if no-one is looking for you)
- Learn the basic rules to get out for the territory you are going (walking downhill/downstream does not work in the Glades).
- Test/Break-in your shoes

Here is my list:
PHONE: even with bad coverage, its one of the best signaling tool.
FRIEND: All these kits sound like those people are hiking alone. Go hike with a friend, or friends.
FOOD: Instead of fishing gear, bear-traps and other hunting gear, bring some food. It's more efficient. Spend your time walking, not fishing.
FLASHLIGHT: Instead of building a fire and getting cozy, keep going.
MAP & COMPASS: It helps you find the best direction to hike
WHISTLE: Short range signaling
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Sea Monster on July 30, 2015, 11:14:13 AM: Quote
Acronyms can be a useful aide memoir, but can you really rely on remembering them or what they stand for when the adrenaline is pumping, or you're tired, hungry, disoriented?

That is why you train.
Reading a book is great and how you know "what" to do, but that is not how you train.
Muscle memory and, uhh, memory memory needs to be drilled.

If you have trained right, and consistently, you do not need to remember what the acronyms are or what they stand for, you just do it.

Part of the reason it can be hard to cross-train for different circumstances or equipment, or why people get the smurfs when they change a regulation or process (DRSABCDE) and they have to modify a habitual process to the new "standard"

(I am not arguing with DRSABCDE as a system, just an example of a simple process everyone should know, that gets updated and changes and requires training to include the new steps)
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 30, 2015, 12:37:40 PM: Quote from: styx on July 29, 2015, 10:07:07 AM
I wonder if other very well known guys like Ron Hood, Ray Mears and Les Stroud ever put out a list like this

One of my favorites is Ron Hood's Survival Camping video, at the start he details his kit pretty thoroughly.

Some of the guys from Alone have vids on YT regarding the 10 items they took along.

Seems like many of them would've done better with 5 items and something to help their mental state. :pok:
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: styx on July 30, 2015, 02:39:17 PM: Quote from: Gerhard Gerber on July 30, 2015, 12:37:40 PM
Quote from: styx on July 29, 2015, 10:07:07 AM
I wonder if other very well known guys like Ron Hood, Ray Mears and Les Stroud ever put out a list like this

One of my favorites is Ron Hood's Survival Camping video, at the start he details his kit pretty thoroughly.

Some of the guys from Alone have vids on YT regarding the 10 items they took along.

Seems like many of them would've done better with 5 items and something to help their mental state. :pok:

We have the Alone thread. And apparently they were given some items outside of the 10 they chose

Quote from: Aloha007 on July 29, 2015, 11:42:26 PM
Quote from: styx on July 29, 2015, 10:07:07 AM
I wonder if other very well known guys like Ron Hood, Ray Mears and Les Stroud ever put out a list like this

I did have a quick look on line to no avail. Cody's list is what is contained in his book 98.6 degrees.

I think the more well know and lesser known experienced adventurers/survivalists have more or less similar gear choices. Guys like Dave seem to keep it basic in terms of his 10 C's however the individual components are specific. He likes a certain style knife and prefers certain materials for clothes and such. Cody also has preferences to clothing or not :D ( shoes ) and knife type.

From what I've seen a good kit when traveling out doors is made up of certain items. The choices in these items is less important for example blade steel than the item itself, cutting tool. Important of all is getting out and using the gear in the kit not to mention actually having the gear on you.

True, but I still wonder what inspired the list. Dave's seems to be focused on staying put and making a life for yourself. Maybe taming a bear to help you plow the fields
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Aloha on July 30, 2015, 04:51:52 PM: I wondered if some of these kits were originally based off military survival kits. I'd imagine some kits were based off what was needed in certain situations these people have encountered.

@Ether I can go 2 hours from my home into the mountains and no signal. It possible to take a tumble and phone gets damaged and you get hurt. No walking out in this case, yes I understand the scenario is a what if however accidents happen.

People hike/explore all the time without gear and without incident no doubt. People also hike/explore and become lost as well, it happens. I agree with many of your points however there are those that do not intend on going beyond their capabilities and yet trouble happens. Accidents happen, becoming disoriented happens, weather changes, the unexpected occurs even for those who are prepared, it's part of life.
I've seen people walk stairs and injure themselves so it's possible especially when outdoors.

I'd like to also mention that these type kits are not limited to those hiking but yet kayaking, mountain biking, skiing, climbers etc would all benefit IMO with a simple well thought out kit.

You dont have to put the kitchen sink into a kit but a few items should a worse case scenario happen is never a bad idea.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Etherealicer on July 30, 2015, 05:54:42 PM: Quote from: Aloha007 on July 30, 2015, 04:51:52 PM
I wondered if some of these kits were originally based off military survival kits. I'd imagine some kits were based off what was needed in certain situations these people have encountered.

@Ether I can go 2 hours from my home into the mountains and no signal. It possible to take a tumble and phone gets damaged and you get hurt. No walking out in this case, yes I understand the scenario is a what if however accidents happen.

People hike/explore all the time without gear and without incident no doubt. People also hike/explore and become lost as well, it happens. I agree with many of your points however there are those that do not intend on going beyond their capabilities and yet trouble happens. Accidents happen, becoming disoriented happens, weather changes, the unexpected occurs even for those who are prepared, it's part of life.
I've seen people walk stairs and injure themselves so it's possible especially when outdoors.

I'd like to also mention that these type kits are not limited to those hiking but yet kayaking, mountain biking, skiing, climbers etc would all benefit IMO with a simple well thought out kit.

You dont have to put the kitchen sink into a kit but a few items should a worse case scenario happen is never a bad idea.
Well, I was intentionally provocative (anyone noticed that I didn't pack water :D)

I agree with the cell-phone (its greatly depending on where you are though, here I have almost everywhere reception even high up in the mountains but then Switzerland IS TINY). But a signaling mirror or a whistle also don't just work, they have the same basic problem, they need reception (someone who hears or sees your signal AND responds to them).

What I criticize is the basic plan seems to be:
"You are lost, find shelter and get comfortable"
I think it should be
Get your bearings, get moving, get un-lost
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 30, 2015, 06:22:02 PM: Quote
We have the Alone thread. And apparently they were given some items outside of the 10 they chose

Thanks, missed that.

Quote
People hike/explore all the time without gear and without incident no doubt. People also hike/explore and become lost as well, it happens.
A previous landlord of mine almost came 2nd hiking close to home (on the edge of town), fortunately walked to where he had reception again and phoned his wife to come pick him up.....wasn't nearly the first time he hiked in that area.

I'm covered when I go fishing, but I couldn't help thinking that the area where I walk my dogs most often I don't take anything, no phone, no water, nothing but 2 dogs and a walking stick. The reason is simple - gear makes you a target for criminals.
Fortunately a big mother of a walking stick because I follow game trails and collect poacher's wire snares while I'm at it. :P
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Aloha on July 30, 2015, 06:34:06 PM: Ether you are exactly right

What I criticize is the basic plan seems to be:
"You are lost, find shelter and get comfortable"
I think it should be
Get your bearings, get moving, get un-lost

If I was lost, injured, or whatever my goal would be to get home or to the hospital not make an extended "camping" trip out if it :D. We've seen it all before where the daggone kit is so large that its generally left behind anyway. What I typically bring for hikes planned for several hours is more food and more water not necessarily more "gear" per se.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 31, 2015, 11:53:43 AM: You're discussing the plot of the current season of Dual Survival :rofl:

My only personal experience was in a group where it turned out we decided to stop too soon, fortunately not a matter of life or death, but still there were consequences....

Not many years ago a Dutch couple on self-drive tour ran out of petrol in a remote area, they stayed with the car and the husband didn't make it. They were in a farming area, and it turns out 3km from a farm dam fed by a windpump........same as what litter this whole country.

Unfortunately there are just as many stories about people that should've stayed put.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Etherealicer on July 31, 2015, 02:44:03 PM: Quote from: Gerhard Gerber on July 31, 2015, 11:53:43 AM
You're discussing the plot of the current season of Dual Survival :rofl:

My only personal experience was in a group where it turned out we decided to stop too soon, fortunately not a matter of life or death, but still there were consequences....

Not many years ago a Dutch couple on self-drive tour ran out of petrol in a remote area, they stayed with the car and the husband didn't make it. They were in a farming area, and it turns out 3km from a farm dam fed by a windpump........same as what litter this whole country.

Unfortunately there are just as many stories about people that should've stayed put.
Staying put vs. Moving is a difficult decision

Staying put only works if either:
People pass by the spot you are frequently OR you know someone is looking for you.

So, if your car breaks down, staying put is might not the worst idea. There are probably very few roads where you can go with a car that are traveled so infrequent that you are in danger. Also, when traveling by car, you have much less limitation on weight and can easily bring a 2nd and a 3rd lighter. People going by car might not be capable of hiking long distances even without injury. Biggest danger might be that with the car people tend to forget the weather and if you get into a snow storm as an example, you need to stay put AND stay warm.

If you are hiking in remote areas on an off-beaten path, I think moving is the better option. Of course a leg injury might take the decision from you. But as long as you can walk, staying on the move seems like the best idea.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Etherealicer on July 31, 2015, 02:50:38 PM: On a bit different note:

Considering how much money some people spend on their ~~NINJA~~ survival-gear a Personal Locator Beacons might be a great addition. For about 300$ you get the probably best signaling device (not much if you consider that people spend 50$ on a titanium whistle. Also, PLB without messaging need to be registered but have no subscription cost, with messaging its about 300$/year).

In Switzerland, hiking GPS devices are massively popular and help not getting lost.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: styx on July 31, 2015, 03:49:40 PM: In Croatia the mandatory equipment for hiking is flip flops, alcohol and drugs :facepalm:

I really wish that the mountain rescue service would start charging people, maybe they would pack their brains too when they leave for vacation :whistle:
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: raistlin65 on July 31, 2015, 04:11:33 PM: +1 to a smartphone along with a lipstick battery charger (http://www.amazon.com/Anker-Astro-Lipstick-Sized-Portable-Technology/dp/B005X1Y7I2).

If you have maps.me already installed with the maps for your region downloaded, works with GPS even if data service is not available: http://maps.me/en/home.

The battery charger? Not just for the phone communication and GPS function, but also because a phone is a backup flashlight. :)
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 31, 2015, 04:37:24 PM: Quote from: styx on July 31, 2015, 03:49:40 PM
In Croatia the mandatory equipment for hiking is flip flops, alcohol and drugs :facepalm:

I also live in a non-nanny state.....freedom & all that :rofl:

......and I know Croatia has great fishing 8)
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on July 31, 2015, 04:42:53 PM: Quote
+1 to a smartphone along with a lipstick battery charger.

You all make great arguments, and I can see the advantages, but I will never depend on or stake my safety on anything that runs off a battery. :)

And honestly, the only item from that category I'll miss is a headlamp.

I feel a trip is successful as soon as the cellular signal is gone......
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Aloha on July 31, 2015, 05:13:05 PM: Quote from: Gerhard Gerber on July 31, 2015, 04:42:53 PM
Quote
+1 to a smartphone along with a lipstick battery charger.

You all make great arguments, and I can see the advantages, but I will never depend on or stake my safety on anything that runs off a battery. :)

And honestly, the only item from that category I'll miss is a headlamp.

I feel a trip is successful as soon as the cellular signal is gone......

As do many :tu:

When traveling by auto there is no good reason not to have a well prepared "kit". GPS and back up battery are great. Maps and being able to use a compass should be standard. There are many ways in which to lesson issues however ISH happens so putting together a kit that is well thought out and compact goes a long way.

Staying put or heading out, each scenario will dictate the best approach. If you not let anyone know where you were headed then no one is looking for you so you better keep moving. If you told friends/family your plans and didn't make it back then it might be best to get into an area to be better seen from above.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: raistlin65 on July 31, 2015, 05:17:04 PM: Quote from: Gerhard Gerber on July 31, 2015, 04:42:53 PM
Quote
+1 to a smartphone along with a lipstick battery charger.

You all make great arguments, and I can see the advantages, but I will never depend on or stake my safety on anything that runs off a battery. :)

I don't think you have to depend on it as if this is an either/or proposition, unless you just don't want to carry the extra weight. Even if you have a physical map and a compass, having a backup map on your phone and then GPS capability to use it? That's a plus that might save your life.

Or consider you are in a remote area. Hiking out with a major injury, might want to have that phone with you just in case you can get a signal to phone for help in that last couple of miles out when you might not make it.

Or what about the smartphone as an information storage device, that can extend your knowledge with information that you don't know. For instance, I haven't tried it yet, but Kiwix can carry the entirety of Wikipedia on your mobile phone (http://www.ghacks.net/2013/08/11/kiwix-download-wikipedia-to-your-computer-or-android-for-offline-access/) as long as you have the extra storage for it. Or can you carry a library of first aid and medical books on your body without a smartphone?

Your watch breaks? Your phone works as a time piece.

I'm sure there are more uses that other people can come up with.

So depend on it? I get that. Ignore its potential as a supplement to the rest of your kit? That I just don't understand.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Etherealicer on July 31, 2015, 05:49:23 PM: Quote from: styx on July 31, 2015, 03:49:40 PM
In Croatia the mandatory equipment for hiking is flip flops, alcohol and drugs :facepalm:

I really wish that the mountain rescue service would start charging people, maybe they would pack their brains too when they leave for vacation :whistle:
They do that here, well not directly...

Unless you are a member of the Swiss Air Rescue (REGA (http://www.rega.ch/en/about-us.aspx)), you have to pay for your rescue. Of course that is covered by your insurance, but if it was your fault (bad shoes, bad weather) the insurance will ask for the money back.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Etherealicer on July 31, 2015, 05:52:50 PM: @Cell phone and backup battery

I recently saw this on DX
Battery pack that also is a cell phone (http://www.dx.com/p/xiaocai-x6-waterproof-gsm-bar-phone-w-1-77-screen-flashlight-mobile-charger-orange-299324#.VbuZQPnytaQ)

Rugged and with 5000mAh it can re-charge your phone 2-3 times.
But its also a phone in its own right.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: raistlin65 on July 31, 2015, 06:00:36 PM: Quote from: Etherealicer on July 31, 2015, 05:52:50 PM
@Cell phone and backup battery

I recently saw this on DX
Battery pack that also is a cell phone (http://www.dx.com/p/xiaocai-x6-waterproof-gsm-bar-phone-w-1-77-screen-flashlight-mobile-charger-orange-299324#.VbuZQPnytaQ)

Rugged and with 5000mAh it can re-charge your phone 2-3 times.
But its also a phone in its own right.

Reviews on it are terrible, though, if you combine those reviews with those on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Vktech-Waterproof-Dustproof-Shockproof-Cellphone/dp/B00KCB6E7U). Given the price, definitely probably a case of pay for what you get--which is not much in reliability :eek:

I think it would be better to get a waterproof case for one's smartphone and then a separate battery backup :)
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Etherealicer on July 31, 2015, 06:09:52 PM: Quote from: raistlin65 on July 31, 2015, 06:00:36 PM
Quote from: Etherealicer on July 31, 2015, 05:52:50 PM
@Cell phone and backup battery

I recently saw this on DX
Battery pack that also is a cell phone (http://www.dx.com/p/xiaocai-x6-waterproof-gsm-bar-phone-w-1-77-screen-flashlight-mobile-charger-orange-299324#.VbuZQPnytaQ)

Rugged and with 5000mAh it can re-charge your phone 2-3 times.
But its also a phone in its own right.

Reviews on it are terrible, though, if you combine those reviews with those on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Vktech-Waterproof-Dustproof-Shockproof-Cellphone/dp/B00KCB6E7U). Given the price, definitely probably a case of pay for what you get--which is not much in reliability :eek:

I think it would be better to get a waterproof case for one's smartphone and then a separate battery backup :)
I did not bother to read reviews as I have no intention to buy one (hardly use the cell-phone I have).
But I liked the general idea.

Big Battery, Rugged Case, Small Display could make a great emergency/outdoors cell.
However, if I shelled out money for something like this, it would probably rather be a GPS-Device, maybe a personal locator.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Aloha on July 31, 2015, 06:14:02 PM: I recently got the Anker Astro E4 and while I'm not suggesting one carry this since there lighter/smaller units available so far I really like it. If I were to head out for a 2 day trip backpacking I wouldn't hesitate to bring it.

We've had too many people get lost in the mountains here in California for whatever reasons. Some have survived while others are still missing. I see people on the trail with a bottle of water, power bar, and cell phone all the time. They probably look at me as I look at them, "wtf are they thinking" :D.

My basic kit fits on a belt and is simple to the point. I do have a sling bag that is reserved for longer hikes that includes as I've said more food and water.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: styx on July 31, 2015, 06:31:42 PM: Quote from: Etherealicer on July 31, 2015, 05:49:23 PM
Quote from: styx on July 31, 2015, 03:49:40 PM
In Croatia the mandatory equipment for hiking is flip flops, alcohol and drugs :facepalm:

I really wish that the mountain rescue service would start charging people, maybe they would pack their brains too when they leave for vacation :whistle:
They do that here, well not directly...

Unless you are a member of the Swiss Air Rescue (REGA (http://www.rega.ch/en/about-us.aspx)), you have to pay for your rescue. Of course that is covered by your insurance, but if it was your fault (bad shoes, bad weather) the insurance will ask for the money back.

I remember there was some talk that they will implement the same thing here. Croatian citizens will be covered by our basic health insurance I think but non citizens will have to pay (or their insurances will).
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: raistlin65 on July 31, 2015, 07:02:03 PM: Quote from: Aloha007 on July 31, 2015, 06:14:02 PM
I recently got the Anker Astro E4 and while I'm not suggesting one carry this since there lighter/smaller units available so far I really like it. If I were to head out for a 2 day trip backpacking I wouldn't hesitate to bring it.

+1

I have the Anker E3, and it has been great. :cheers:

If someone doesn't have one, it would make sense to look at some of RavPower's offerings with LED lights built in. I had already gotten my battery packs before RavPower started offering these models. They have a lipstick sized battery pack that is also a flashlight: http://www.amazon.com/RAVPower-Portable-flashlight-Technology-more-Black/dp/B0084Y47SK/. Based on Amazon's weight specs, doesn't seem like adds appreciable weight. 3 oz for a light and battery backup is pretty darn good.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Aloha on July 31, 2015, 07:29:25 PM: Quote from: raistlin65 on July 31, 2015, 07:02:03 PM
Quote from: Aloha007 on July 31, 2015, 06:14:02 PM
I recently got the Anker Astro E4 and while I'm not suggesting one carry this since there lighter/smaller units available so far I really like it. If I were to head out for a 2 day trip backpacking I wouldn't hesitate to bring it.

+1

I have the Anker E3, and it has been great. :cheers:

If someone doesn't have one, it would make sense to look at some of RavPower's offerings with LED lights built in. I had already gotten my battery packs before RavPower started offering these models. They have a lipstick sized battery pack that is also a flashlight: http://www.amazon.com/RAVPower-Portable-flashlight-Technology-more-Black/dp/B0084Y47SK/. Based on Amazon's weight specs, doesn't seem like adds appreciable weight. 3 oz for a light and battery backup is pretty darn good.

Nice. My older daughter needs a battery and this may be the right choice. My younger one has a lipstick size charger that is prety awesome, I dont know the name. Love how the Rav is a light.
Title: Re: Cody Lundin and Dave Canterbury Survival Items
Post by: Sea Monster on August 01, 2015, 04:52:39 AM: Don't get me wrong, If I have a chance to drink mz own urine, I alwazs take it,

However.....

In case I get bored and decide I want to be home in time for the next episode of Swamp People, I have this: