Multitool.org Forum
Tool Talk => Swiss Army Knights Forum => Topic started by: kkokkolis on February 16, 2013, 08:53:20 AM
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The original idea is somewhere around here, in some thread. So, at least somebody did it already. But it fascinates me and I'd like to process it mentally and then, who knows, it might become true.
How about a split SAK? I mean two SAKs that combined together have (almost) every implement currently available or what an XLT, XXLT or XAVT have. This way you'll be having everything (that's what I obsess about) but arranged in two SAKs that fit better at hand and are quite usable and suitable for EDC (my second obsession, I don't like dust collectors SAKs. They must be sprayed with smoking gunpowder to earn their medals).
It seems reasonable that they should be somewhat specialized. This way you could choose to carry one or another or both, according to need. Let's say an Urban and an Outdoors.
From a feasibility point of view it would be easier to choose a standard feature rich SAK that is easily usable, such as a Swisschamp or Cybertool 41 and then mod our of scratch the non identical twin with all the implements that lack. Or get an XLT or even a XAVT and split them in two.
They shouldn't just be more manageable, they would also work better as a system. Consider handling both and holding something with a pliers while working on it with another tool or lighting some space while screwing a screw, or working on something while magnifying it. Some tools might be doubled, pliers is what I have in mind.
If I'll ever become mod that's what I'd like to do.
If somebody has such a duo, please post pictures!
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Spirit Plus + Swisscard Lite + Soldier.
This setup can do it all - contruction, outdoor sports, bushcraft, climbing, boating, biking, urban carry etc. The best Victorinox combo IMHO.
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Yes, but that's something totally different. I'm speaking about 91mm SAKs. You are talking about combinations of different formats. I agree with you and you might swap the Spirit with a Surge and the Swisscard with a Minichamp etc. But my love is 91mm and I explore that field.
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Let's see.
Not needing a lighter that doesn't work and a divot tool, I might choose the XAVT.
The left column lists all the tools common to a regular Swisschamp. Since I find 2 wrench tools in the same SAK a redundancy, I would split the wrenches and cases between the two SAKs. So the standard SAK should be a Cybertool 41. Then from the left column one removes the fish scaler and the lens and philps layer (and chisel?) and adds a case and wrench layer. Or just gets a Cybertool 41 and that's it. But, since that will be the urban or IT personality and we would avoid immersing it in water, it would get the XAVT scales. Then the LED light should go here also, together with the newer type of lens, so we'll be having a Cybertool lite XAVT, a unique tool indeed.
The second SAK should contain the fish scaler and the lens and philps layer and all the tools listed on the right column, except the XAVT scales, the wrench and case layer and the LED and newer lens layer.
It would be a complete SAK and good for outdoors, since it will be having a serrated blade, the pruner blade, the fish scaler, the 93mm awl and also its own opener (the combo blade) etc. Here the hook will be filed and we might double the corkscrew and have full plus scales.
There are also other combinations that fulfill the purpose. One might avoid modding two SAKs and just get a Cybertool 41 and make the second of the non identical twins, but I believe we should split the wrences, hooks and lenses.
Now, why am I telling you all these boring and fanciful stuff? :facepalm: Because I hesitate to start modding (I don't have the tools, nor the dexterity needed) but I feel a great urge to make my ideal SAKs and not just SAKs; I already have a Leatherman in mind with the 2 factory blades and another two -one hand opening drop point and warncliff- instead of the saws and a double sided -one side half serrated- bayonette like spearhead blade where the pliers go, a powerful Balisong knife to cut everything. Since I won't do it for the time being I share my ideas and somebody might exploit them further with his tools and skills.
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Well i have a XAVT for sell, if someone want's to use it for splitting in two, but i believe that you will also need another SAK for the extra liners and springs.
But i believe that is a pity to dismantle a XAVT for this project.
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Yes, it wouldn't be cost effective. One should assemble the second SAK with leftovers from other projects. Some of the tools are somewhat rare though. There is such a SAK photo in the Show your latest SAK I recall. So it is feasible. I just don't remember who owns it.
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Now that I got the Swisschamp XAVT also, it is obvious that the XLT has all the essentials, cybertool included. One might get a Casio Pro Trek or Suunto or Tissot T-Touch and have all the AVT functions and also a compass and backlight. Even a Smartphone has some functions off line (torch and compass) and all on line (weather apps). Even more essential is the regular Swisschamp.
But we are nerds, aren't we?
The modular fashion that Victorinox uses is very helpful. Usually 2 or 3 tools come together with their own spring in a layer. So one might get a Swisschamp XLT and make another one with the XAVT scales and the
1. Serrated blade and 93mm awl layer
2. Cybertool layer (with second set of bits)
3. Lens and LED torch layer (one should put the older or newer lens here, according to the one the XLT has)
4. Finally, the combo opener and watch opener layer
On the back we would have whatever tools, but the filed hook and a philip's drtiver instead of the corckscrew would be fine.
Since the XAVT scales are plus, one might mod the XLT with alox scales and make it thinner (much welcomed mod).
You see? Just a 4 layer SAK (3 layer if you sacrifice the second cybertool) and you have all the possible tools.
Others might prefer a Swisschamp and a 6 layer SAK with the
1. Spatula
2. Cybertool
3. Hawkbill and Electrician's blade
and the 3 aforementioned XAVT layers. You would have two more or less equal SAKs.
The basic SAK (Swisschamp or XLT) isn't afraid of rain and water and the sibling could be used to illuminate where the fisrt works.
Silly but I know that collectors would grab it during the blink of an eye.
In the pic one can see the additional layers from the regular SC to the XAVT, through the XLT.
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Was it this one? I made it to compliment a CT 34.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll211/gigahzfemtohz/pho001_zps16fd1abb.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/gigahzfemtohz/media/pho001_zps16fd1abb.jpg.html)
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That's the one. Great idea!
Do you use it or is it just a collection item?
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Was it this one? I made it to compliment a CT 34.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll211/gigahzfemtohz/pho001_zps16fd1abb.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/gigahzfemtohz/media/pho001_zps16fd1abb.jpg.html)
:tu: Nice one, a few models came to mind that would be a perfect compliment to.
kkokkolis, are you wanting one knife that is connected that could be separated? I have seen Richartz knives that have a fork and knife that are able to separate, something like that?
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Was it this one? I made it to compliment a CT 34.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll211/gigahzfemtohz/pho001_zps16fd1abb.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/gigahzfemtohz/media/pho001_zps16fd1abb.jpg.html)
:tu: Nice one, a few models came to mind that would be a perfect compliment to.
kkokkolis, are you wanting one knife that is connected that could be separated? I have seen Richartz knives that have a fork and knife that are able to separate, something like that?
I rather like that mod... I'm a fan of the Phillips driver over the LED, but I can definitely appreciate it. :cheers:
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kkokkolis, are you wanting one knife that is connected that could be separated? I have seen Richartz knives that have a fork and knife that are able to separate, something like that?
No, I'm thinking of two separate robust Swiss Army Knives. Well, just one, since I already have the other.
This is a theory, already made reality by GigaHz. For a Swisschamp one would exchange the Saw/ File? Scaler with a Cybertool and consider adding the short blades. The Combo tool goes with the Watchmaker's blade, so we would add the awl to the Serrated blade. Voilà.
GigaHz, I also noticed that:
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll211/gigahzfemtohz/84mm6layer002.jpg)
Where do you find those special tools? From other SAKs?
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I use it some. I don't EDC it. The 84mm 6 layer came from all the unique parts I had laying around at the time. All those tools came from one 84mm model or another.
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Now that I see the added layers over the Swisschamp format, I wonder. Why did they choose the Spatula instead of the Serrated blade and :drool: inline awl? I might even sacrifice the fish scaler to get that duo. And, since there is an inline Philips in all Swisschamps, the combo can/ bottle opener instead of the regular openers layer would permit the watchmaker's blade to fit. Out three layers, in two layers, and thus we would have a SAK no wider than the XLT with all the possible blades and both the awls and all the regular tools from Swisschamps and Cybertools.
Although a Spirit's chisel and combo blade would be even more awesome than the watchmaker's blade (an electrician's blade works efficiently for the same purpose).
One might skip the Philips driver also (since there is the Cybertool) and get the LED light. Can you imagine a more useful SAK than this?
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When i read "split SAK" first thing that comes to mind are teh splittable Richartz Picknick knives.
They are teh exact size of a Vic 91 and they can be split by folding out teh fork whose cutouts lock into mushroom formed pins - Maybe you could build an actual Split-SAK on this base?!
I´ll try to take soem pics, i have a knife like that.
http://www.youandme.gr/images/detailed/2/TREND_PICNICK_3_black-red_B.jpg
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I have found a video that will spare me from doing bad pics... ;-)
ULTIMA picknick 3 von RICHARTZ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COLra0eLPYs#ws)
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Whoaa ! A SAK like that would be awesome ! :drool:
This idea also reminded me of a Wenger Patent (https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/35b1fcfdd6b3e158b5aa/EP0207149B1.pdf) for a Modular Knife
(http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/EP0207149B1/imgf0004.png)
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Das ist eine fantastische Idee.
They look fine GAKs those Richartz. They are Solingen, aren't they? I might buy one since they are available here, to try it.
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The Richartz knives are of good quality - Fit and finish is not always up to Vic/Wenger Standards, but really good. And yes, they have Solingen made blades.
The liners are steel, iirc.
I find the knives funny in the hand because the corkscrew is on the "wrong" side from what i am used too.
The blade shape and can opener is more similar to Wenger, while the outline and size is like teh Vic 91 mm series.
As Richartz does these knives for decades, I´d say they are SAKalikes, not copies.
I have a few 1 layer knives and one of those Camping knives - Let me know if you are interested, i only want to keep one of the black coated 1 layer knives.
If you want the Camping one for experimenting i am sure we can find a special price which reflects my curiosity to see this mod attempt come reality.
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I find that my Cybertool 34 + SwissTool X gives me pretty much every tool I need. The SwissTool X has the big beefy pliers, file, saw, chisel and pry tool that the Cybertool lacks. The only thing that I can think of that I don't have between these two (that I wouldn't mind having on hand) is the magnifier that my Explorer has.
I never really thought about carrying 2 of the 91mm SAKs that cover everything between them - it isn't a bad idea. The really big SAKs that have almost everything are just too thick to use comfortably.
If only Victorinox would let you build a virtual SAK on their website and then custom order it - whatever tools you want for whatever number of layer it needs, that would be freakin' awesome.
I wouldn't mind a combination of the Cybertool & Explorer on one SAK and maybe something like the Victorinox Ranger (more or less) for the other SAK. Or maybe just my Cybertool 34 for one SAK plus a combination of the Ranger & Explorer for the other SAK to give me the magnifying glass, saw, chisel, file and whatever.
Thinking about it this is a pretty cool idea.
Yes, I think I'd like to keep my Cybertool 34 (my EDC for over a decade) but add a custom 91mm designed to give me every tool I like/want that my Cybertool doesn't have. If I had the money right now for a custom built SAK I'd be really tempted to plan out the ideal 2nd SAK and have someone build it.
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I have a few 1 layer knives and one of those Camping knives - Let me know if you are interested, i only want to keep one of the black coated 1 layer knives.
If you want the Camping one for experimenting i am sure we can find a special price which reflects my curiosity to see this mod attempt come reality.
I am not good as a modifier, I've never even give it a try. But I am curious about that SAK. Send me some more info please, the particular model, a picture if possible and the cost of it.
Although Richartz look good, I find them expensive since the 9 blades model costs as much as a full featured Swisschamp (Greek prices). I understand that they aren't Chinese cheapos and I admire German ingenius mechanics, but with such a selection of genuine (and original too!!!) prime quality Swiss knives at good prices, the German product should be more competitive.
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Yes, pricing is ridiculous.
I´ll take some pics (i was about to do some anyways for the trade section) and PM you about details.
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It looks like Wenger produced such a knife in the early to mid 50s. I wonder why we don't see them ever. Seems like Wenger has been looking at different modular ideas and the SAK for a long time. Maybe because they like to offer a lifetime warrantly they gave up that design in favor of the removable tool designs they have used to make specialized SAKs.
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A very interesting Wenger knife I think. More pics sometime later, it needs some work. Has anyone seen a model like this before?
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Didn't know this knife existed ! :o
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...I´m a bit late, but i finally got along to do some pics.
I think you will not be able to use the Richarts tools directly, but with redrilling reusing the fork in a split sak might be possible (it locks the halves together when closed)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/mattschwarz/tools/richartz5_zps99a1562c.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/mattschwarz/media/tools/richartz5_zps99a1562c.jpg.html)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/mattschwarz/tools/richartz4_zps5b143b71.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/mattschwarz/media/tools/richartz4_zps5b143b71.jpg.html)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/mattschwarz/tools/richartz3_zps045fbcef.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/mattschwarz/media/tools/richartz3_zps045fbcef.jpg.html)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/mattschwarz/tools/richartz2_zpse8dbb053.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/mattschwarz/media/tools/richartz2_zpse8dbb053.jpg.html)
Here you can see how good the Vic scales already fit the silouhette:
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y102/mattschwarz/tools/richartz_zpseea1a8da.jpg) (http://s4.photobucket.com/user/mattschwarz/media/tools/richartz_zpseea1a8da.jpg.html)
If you want to try this mod, I donate the knife if you pay the stamp.
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You are very generous once again lowtech and this is very tempting, but I know nothing about SAK mods. Shouldn't some experienced modder try it? It looks promising in the hands of the right guy.
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If you don´t want to try your hands at it (I wanted to offer it to you first as you sparked the idea) this offer is open for anyone who wants to try this mod.
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I don't want to ruin it. I'm interested to see some experienced guy exploiting it.
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SO, PTRSAK, Syph, Steve, Crackout, Hanksolon etc - Anybody listening? :pok:
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Since nobody is interested, send it to me. We have each other's addresses, just tell me the cost.
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I just received it today. This is a very fine folding knife. German quality isn't behind the Swiss one.
Victorinox could use that idea, unless it is patrented. But as far as 1997, the Special Forces conscripts used big and ugly Chinese folders like that, with spoon also.
Thanks a lot Lowtech
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You´re welcome.
I agree that the production is not much behind the swiss one.
I like the vic style Can opener more, but that is a personal preference.
And it´s too bad the corkscrew screwdriver is not fitting. Other wise one of the 2 layer richartz knives would make a nice EDc instead of a Spartan.
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Things evolve. I know now that there's no need for a split SAK, when you can have a Spirit S with better versions of pliers, openers, saws, file, awl, chisel, Philips and fine driver. What's left? The scale tools, the scissors, the Cybertool, the corckscrew/ mini driver, the magnifying lens (we have a Philips, do add a LED light here) two blades layer, the electrician's and pruner blade. There's room even for a combo blade, fish scaler and spatula and back tools.
Much better.
Ἄφοβον ὁ θεός, ἀνύποπτον ὁ θάνατος· καὶ τ’ ἀγαθὸν μὲν εὔκτητον, τὸ δὲ δεινὸν εὐκαρτέρητον.
Φιλόδημος Γαδαρεύς
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Someone mentioned here the XAVT scales - those are the ones with barometer and altimeter, like in the traveller lite, right? Are those scales available for sale separately?
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Case makes one too.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll211/gigahzfemtohz/casehobo035_zps7ae5d89d.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/gigahzfemtohz/media/casehobo035_zps7ae5d89d.jpg.html)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll211/gigahzfemtohz/casehobo036_zpsb9ad263e.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/gigahzfemtohz/media/casehobo036_zpsb9ad263e.jpg.html)
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After owning some plier based Multitools, among them the Swisstools that incorporate the same basic tools (or similar) SAKs have, I understood that a Multitool/ SAK duet is much better than a split SAK. I carry a long time such a duet but my XLT or Swisschamp have many duplicate tools with the Multitools.
Supposing I would carry the Swisstool or Swisstool Spirit S (no scissors) and removing tools from an XAVT, there would remain:
- Magnifier and LED
- Small pliers (some times you need two or just a smaller one)
- 4mm bit wrench and holder (complementary bits with Ratchet's set)
- ? Serrated blade and awl, hook with nail file (for twinning with Swisstool with no serrated blade)
- ? Scissors and hook with nail file (for twinning with Swisstool with no scissors)
- Prunning/ electrician's blades/ fine driver (not needed but I guess it goes with the blades)
- ? Spatula (coffee stirrer)
- Combo tool/ Watchmaker's blade
- Big/small blades/ corkscrew, mini driver
- AVT scales for those who want them
- Toothpick, pen, needle, tweezers
I would consider a nail file as in Wengers and Cadets in place of the combo tool (I use a lot the small blade).
That's it. 8 layers, or even 5 if you scrap the spatula, pliers and 4mm wrench and 4 if one removes the blades/ corkscrew (doable if you keep the serrated blade and have a CS Multitool or just the corkscrew accessory) Even with 8 layers one has an alternative Swisschamp that pairs a Swisstool (or other multitool) nicely. There remains place for a marlin spike also.
You can use it for manicure, origami, precision work, lighting the working field, magnifying the item you work with etc.