Multitool.org Forum
Tool Talk => Reviews => Topic started by: Mr. Whippy on June 07, 2009, 04:08:29 AM
-
Well, I finally succumbed and got a SURGE!!
It is a solidly built tool, but I have to say, FOR ME, it's sort of a let down. I am excited about the T adaptor for saw and file, but honestly, I like having both the saw and file on the tool at the same time. I was expecting more of what the Charge/Wave are with exchangeable blades. Here's what I found:
First off, the Surge is a bigger tool.
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z231/bluebadger88/misc/Surge%20v%20Charge%20v%20Wave/stuff007.jpg)
The Surge is thicker than the Wave, but not so much compared to the Charge:
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z231/bluebadger88/misc/Surge%20v%20Charge%20v%20Wave/stuff012.jpg)
Surge Charge Wave
And although the Surge pliers head looks bigger, as has been previously mentioned, the Charge and Wave open wider:
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z231/bluebadger88/misc/Surge%20v%20Charge%20v%20Wave/stuff013.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z231/bluebadger88/misc/Surge%20v%20Charge%20v%20Wave/stuff014.jpg)
Surge and Charge
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z231/bluebadger88/misc/Surge%20v%20Charge%20v%20Wave/stuff015.jpg)
Surge and Wave
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z231/bluebadger88/misc/Surge%20v%20Charge%20v%20Wave/stuff016.jpg)
Charge and Wave
The next picture shows the outside tools. While the Charge and Wave sport both the file and saw with 2 blades, the Surge gives the option of Saw OR File and Scissors ::) with 2 blades. Neither the Surge or Wave have the guthook which is so useful. This to me is a big plus for the Charge and a big negative for the Surge (less so for the Wave since it has saw and file but no gut hook).
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z231/bluebadger88/misc/Surge%20v%20Charge%20v%20Wave/stuff020.jpg)
Finally, the inside tools. The Surge does have a nice awl. The Charge ALX shows its weakness, with a bunch of bit drivers but no scissors. The Wave has the best compromise with an inside scissors and the large bit driver, but no tiny useless driver.
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z231/bluebadger88/misc/Surge%20v%20Charge%20v%20Wave/stuff021.jpg)
In summary:
Surge:
Pros: Replaceable saw and file blades.
Large scissors
Awl
Cons: Extra bulk with little extra function
Saw and File cannot be on the tool at the same time
Pliers jaws don't open as wide
No gut hook
Charge ALX:
Pros: Saw and File on the tool simulatneously
Wide opening pliers jaws
GUT HOOK!
Second large bit holder means no bit card needed in most cases. (IME, subjective)
Cons: Wider than Wave
No scissors
Worthless small bit driver
Wave:
Pros: Smallest of the the three (narrower than Charge)
Scissors
Wide opening jaws
Cons: No gut hook
Not as comfortable in the hand of the user (subjective and JMO)
-
Here's my situation:
When I'm out ice climbing, weight is at a premium, but so is simplicity. If the tool I have doesn't have a saw, I have to bring one. If it doesn't have a file, I have to bring one. Fiddly little bits like driver bits and tiny files are tough to keep track of and easy to lose.
On the farm, it's less of an issue, but honestly, if I have to bring a bunch of accessories with me, I might as well bring dedicated tools in a bucket or toolbox. The more streamlined my EDC, the happier I am.
Will I use the Surge? Probably, but I suspect the Charge will get primary duty. If Leatherman dumped the dumb little bit driver and put scissors on the Charge ALX in its place, I'd be thrilled.
-
Nice comparison/review mate! :tu: I don't own a Surge and it struck me as odd that it is about the same width as the Charge; I've always imagined it a tad wider.
BTW I can see a "useless small bit driver" on the Wave as well... ::) :D
-
Nice comparison/review mate! :tu: I don't own a Surge and it struck me as odd that it is about the same width as the Charge; I've always imagined it a tad wider.
BTW I can see a "useless small bit driver" on the Wave as well... ::) :D
Heh! Fixed. It's so worthless, I've never used it on the Wave. Because it has scissors, I've sorta blocked it from my conciousness, like a traumatic event. ;)
-
Nice comparison. looks like you need a TTI. It has the gut hook and scissors. Also it is thinner than your alx. Roughly the same size as the wave but more comfortable in the hand due to the rounded adges of the titanium.
-
Great comparison Mr. W :D I don't have a Charge at all but I really like the Wave and I just got a Surge as well so time will tell if I like it or not ;) :D
-
Just here to give my usual "I love the tiny bit driver" line. Ok, on ward.
-
Well, I could see how it would be good for cleaning underneath fingernails and such... ::)
:D
-
Eyeglasses, battery cases, small electrical connectors, microphone gains, :multi:
-
Great review. I was wondering about the difference between the three. Very informative. Looks like I might need a Charge soon. :(
-
Nice comparison. looks like you need a TTI. It has the gut hook and scissors. Also it is thinner than your alx. Roughly the same size as the wave but more comfortable in the hand due to the rounded adges of the titanium.
Re: TTi
I just looked at it on the Leatherman site. In all honesty, I'd rather have the 2 large bit drivers than 1 and scissors. I wish they'd have an option to drop out the small bit driver and standard driver and put in a second large bit driver next to the scissors.
-
wonder if you could slap a guthook in place of the seratted blade in an old wave..that way you could have the longer phillips.
-
Great review mate :tu:
I'm going to move this to the review section :)
-
Pretty much sums up my thoughts on those tools Mr. W.
I EDC a Charge TTi, and very occasionally a Ti, as they both have the same tool configuration as the Wave. Scissors are useful things!
The small bit driver is a natty thing, but I rarely use it. I have once or twice, and it makes a decent awl at a push.
-
I've never used the tiny screwdriver either, but it is one of those things that if I did need it, no other blade or tool is going to do what it can do. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. :-\
-
great review mate :tu:
-
Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. :-\
That should be multitool.org's new motto :D
-
Now where's sardauker? :D
-
Yeah I can see your point on most of those things. I do EDC a SURGE, and it is the best comprimise I've found in a tool (I too own an ALX and Wave), but at first I did agree with you. After carrying it for a while though, I just can't go back to either the Charge or Wave. Like, ever.
Oh and BTW, that "stupid useless tiny driver" is my favorite part of the tool. That thing saved my ass I don't know how many times when my glasses have decided to come apart at really bad times. I don't think I could ever EDC a tool that DIDN'T have the mini driver.
-
Yeah I can see your point on most of those things. I do EDC a SURGE, and it is the best comprimise I've found in a tool (I too own an ALX and Wave), but at first I did agree with you. After carrying it for a while though, I just can't go back to either the Charge or Wave. Like, ever.
Oh and BTW, that "stupid useless tiny driver" is my favorite part of the tool. That thing saved my ass I don't know how many times when my glasses have decided to come apart at really bad times. I don't think I could ever EDC a tool that DIDN'T have the mini driver.
Duct Tape Hero...
Paging Duct Tape Hero.
Broken glasses in need of silver goodness...
:D
(Point taken though)
-
Yeah, been down that road too....
-
Committing some thread necromancy, but I couldn't find this info anywhere else. So, according to Mr. Whippy:
The Surge is thicker than the Wave, but not so much compared to the Charge:
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z231/bluebadger88/misc/Surge%20v%20Charge%20v%20Wave/stuff012.jpg)
Surge Charge Wave
How much thicker are the various Charge models (TTi and AL at least) compared to the Wave? The increased thickness is the main reason my TTi usually stays at home in favor of a Spirit. Would a Wave or an AL be anywhere near the Spirit's thickness?
-
To be honest I'd never noticed they were different!
I'll have a look in a bit :tu:
-
As a Surge user, I have to agree with your assessment Mr. Whippy. I carried my Surge here on the ranch for at least 5 months and the thing is an incredibly tough and versatile tool. I've recently gotten tired of its complexity though. It drives me bananas that the saw and file aren't both attached to the tool, not to mention they're quite short. Rather than drag around a sheath full of saws, files, and screw driver bits, I've been EDCing a Blast. I'd rather have simplicity over durability I guess.
I also detest the mini bit driver. I even use the thing from time to time, but I'd much rather have an awl or something else.
-
The Surge is too heavy and large for me to belt carry so it never leaves home. It sits on a lamp table, awaiting assignment when I don't feel like getting out of the easy chair to fetch a single purpose tool.
The pliers handles are too far apart to hold comfortably. The Surge frame has sharp edges and corners which were uncomfortable in my palm until I filed them down slightly.
I can open the serrated blade with one hand, but the main blade requires too much force to open in the same way. Perhaps it would ease up after repeated use.
I bought it during a clearance sale so it was a fair value, but I wouldn't purchase another Surge.
Never owned a Wave or Charge and I'd like to try one someday.
-
To be honest I'd never noticed they were different!
I'll have a look in a bit :tu:
Well? :pok: :D
PS: Thanks mate.
-
I love my SURGE! :D
Also, I just wanted to say I found a new use for the "useless little driver". My new Ortovox D3 has a swappable wrist strap instead of the harness (for recovery I assume). And to swap them, you need to pry out a little wedge that holds it together. Well, the only thing I have that works turned out to be the SURGE! mini driver. :tu:
-
To be honest I'd never noticed they were different!
I'll have a look in a bit :tu:
Well? :pok: :D
PS: Thanks mate.
Ooh sorry - totally forgot!
OK - The widest point on the Wave is the top torx fasteners, and I get that to be 18mm.
The Charge TTi is 20.5mm, and the AL is 22mm (again, including the torx fasteners / knurled screw heads).
Not a huge difference, but a difference none the less.
-
That's interesting. So the Wave is slimmer than the Charges but still a bit wider than a Spirit (around 16mm-16.5mm iirc). The difference is very small so perhaps I should give a Wave a try someday. Thanks mate. :tu:
-
No problem Nikos :tu:
As I said before, I've never noticed the differences until this thread, but they are definitely there!
The TTi is 5 grams lighter than the Wave though!
-
I just ordered a Charge ALX. I think the small bit driver is a bit unnecessary, and I will be modding my charge to include scissors. I would much rather have an awl.
-
i have to admit that i like having the small bit driver, and i am in fact glad that they made it a bit rather than a small fixed driver. aside from the standard uses, it makes an adequate lockpick >:D. i have actually broken a few of the bits this way... :oops:
-
Nice comparison.
I like my alx. I don't need scissors with two knives and a guthook. The Surge is too heavy.
I like the extra driver on the ALX then I don't really need to carry the bit-kit. I agree I haven't used the small eye glass
screwdriver much. To be totally honest if it weren't for the drivers on a multi-tool I probably wouldn't carry
them much at all because I always have a knife handy in pocket and it's a bit rarer for me to have a need for
pliers. Often I find a good SAK fits the bill a bit better than even my ALX.
Thanks for the review. :)
-
Nice comparison.
I like my alx. I don't need scissors with two knives and a guthook. The Surge is too heavy.
I like the extra driver on the ALX then I don't really need to carry the bit-kit. I agree I haven't used the small eye glass
screwdriver much. To be totally honest if it weren't for the drivers on a multi-tool I probably wouldn't carry
them much at all because I always have a knife handy in pocket and it's a bit rarer for me to have a need for
pliers. Often I find a good SAK fits the bill a bit better than even my ALX.
Thanks for the review. :)
All in all I miss my charge, but I would go for an AL instead of the ALX. I just use the scissors too darn much to lose them. I think I will spring for another charge sometime soon.
-
do what i do to get everything you could ever possibly need:
charge alx in a sheath on my belt
juice s2 on my keys
besides you never know when you will need 2 pairs of pliers...
-
Well with all the differences of opinions it should be secure us a variety of tools from the manufacturers
for years to come. :D
-
Mr. Whippy , I hear you on the surge being a letdown , I felt the same when I got mine and quickly gave it away . Good review !
Chris
-
Your thoughts mirror my own on the Surge , no to say it isn't a fine tool . I don't care much for the ALX family , I feel that if you wan't an upgrade from the Wave , pony up for a Charge and be done with it . The Wave is probably the most cost effective of the trio .
Excellent review !
Chis
-
I am using the Surge as my EDC and lately (temporarily) I am also carrying the Supertool 300.
I find the bigger tool better for heavy jobs and the pliers are stronger.
The scissors is a must on a multitool (unless you carry the Micra with you as well). The scissors on the Surge is bigger and stronger than the one on the Wave.
I agree with the fact that I would have liked the Saw and File simultaneously on the tool. However I now also carry two Bosch steel cutting jigsaw blades as it also fit into the blade changer and this is so nice. I can now also cut a nail of or something hard in that moment of need where nothing else is available.
The small screw driver that seems to be useless: I use mine regularly. I use it for my spectacle's nose rest, to remove it for deep cleaning purposes or replacement. I use it regularly to undo cable ties and use it again. I am a police officer and the big handcuff cable ties are expensive so I re-use it a couple of times. Recently I had to remove a broken front part of a vehicle's boot key from the lock. I used the small bit in the process. When I installed (re-installed) irrigation last week (Hunter pop-ups), I used the small driver to remove filth from the jet screw (which is in fact a stainless grub screw, head-less). For this little bit I have plenty of use.
The Surge also features bigger blades than the smaller tools. This comes in handy with the serrated blade as I use this regularly to cut straps and nylon pipes.
I own both the Wave and the Surge and my preferences go towards the bigger tools. Weight is no factor for me as I am use a pockits pouch and I carry the following in there:
Surge
Led Lenzer P5 flashlight
Wengers SAK
Leatherman Universal tool adapter
Surge pouch with saw blade + 2 X Bosch blades
Leatherman bit kit (both bit cards - full)
A handmade drill / awl
two pens.
With this setup I can do a lot.
I agree the Wave / Charge can do the same, as I have seen there are hacksaw blades that were grounded to be fitted to the clip's slot.