Multitool.org Forum
Tool Talk => Swiss Army Knights Forum => Topic started by: Aloha on June 06, 2019, 07:21:38 PM
-
Each time I "settle" on a SAK I see someone post a picture of one that I was not familiar with only to want it. I thought the "perfect" SAK was blade, scissors, openers, in 84mm. Then the Cyclist finds me or me it :think:. No scissors but doggone it that wrench. I was primarily a Manager user but the PTC came to me or me it :dunno: it gets confusing. Are SAKs just meant to pair? I envy those who have carried ONE dedicated SAK for years, decades. Collectors aside for a moment, I'm talking about those who truly want to find the "perfect" SAK. Even with those who customize a SAK it seems they still seek. I think this was the brilliant intention of this company. Offer just enough options but NOT all possibilities. We'd inevitably want to PAIR them.
Well played, well played. :hatsoff:
-
Although I’m fairly settled now, I totally understand what you’re saying. My two customs have gone through multiple revisions. Nowadays though, I’m not tempted by any SAKs beyond what I have. I mainly only carry my two customs, but occasionally am tempted by my MTO PX.
-
It is an endless search for many of us, in part because Vic doesn't offer every combination of tools in a SAK. Some are lucky enough to have their perfect combination available, others are left wanting. And then there are changing needs and wants...
-
A Huntsman is pretty perfect in my world.
An ALOX Huntsman...with T&T...would ice my cake.
Until that comes along, I'll pair my Pioneer with an Esquire. Or.....an SI with a Classic. And then there is the Swiss Champ....
-
:iagree: !!
-
My perfect SAK depends on the environment i am in. Which is why i can never settle on just one :facepalm:
If i had to though, i would most likely go with the Huntsman as well :tu:
-
Combinations work well for me. The Farmer and Classic are a hell of a combo, and do pretty much everything I need. It's like having a premium quality Huntsman with an eminently useful nail file, instead of the minimally useful package hook and corkscrew.
(https://i.imgur.com/u3MoXu3h.jpg)
But even after finding that perfect combo, I'm now drawn to the SwissChamp. The allure of the glass magnifier is great, as is trying to find everyday uses for every single on those strange tools. It's like a personal challenge in resourcefulness.
(https://i.imgur.com/GFmSqamh.jpg)
-
I had never thought about the Combo Farmer and Classic, but that sound really nice Buzz :like:
Great, now i need to hunt down a farmer... :ahhh
-
Great pics Buzz. I've paired my OC Farmer with Esquire and Minichamp which are nice combos. The Classic really makes a great paring with most SAKs.
-
Mon, glad to hear you are getting such great milage from your customs. Alas temptation is round the corner MTO PX.
-
My perfect SAK depends on the environment i am in. Which is why i can never settle on just one :facepalm:
If i had to though, i would most likely go with the Huntsman as well :tu:
I'm close to what you are saying. Explorer plus for me along with my Manager. Both are great so I don't know why I keep looking and "testing" :dunno:
-
A Huntsman is pretty perfect in my world.
An ALOX Huntsman...with T&T...would ice my cake.
Until that comes along, I'll pair my Pioneer with an Esquire. Or.....an SI with a Classic. And then there is the Swiss Champ....
...... I hear ya. The Esquire is a nice "larger" simple SAK that makes a great pairing with a lot of SAKs. My PTC feels like a great match for most any SAK I like. Then theres my Manager which just about completes most larger SAKs I use regularly.
Then theres the ........... :whistle:
-
I hear you Aloha... so what about building a SAK with the tool complement that suits you? Given a minimal set of tools (depending on whether Alox or otherwise) this is actually not rocket science. Same for most pliers based MTs BTW (notable exception for most being Swisstool (Spirit)).
-
It is an endless search for many of us, in part because Vic doesn't offer every combination of tools in a SAK. Some are lucky enough to have their perfect combination available, others are left wanting. And then there are changing needs and wants...
:iagree:
-
I hear you Aloha... so what about building a SAK with the tool complement that suits you? Given a minimal set of tools (depending on whether Alox or otherwise) this is actually not rocket science. Same for most pliers based MTs BTW (notable exception for most being Swisstool (Spirit)).
They dont call you TOOLER for nothing :hatsoff:. I agree whole heartedly. Make what you want :salute:. I think it was Vics plan all along tho. 84mm scissors then poof gone. They have the ability to make 84mm Explorers but??????????
Remember the new Coke formulation? Remember how that played out? Then Coke went back to their original formulation? Or did they?
I think Vic gets us hooked ( no pun intended ) then discontinues the model so we begin an endless search. I wont even get into the Wenger conspiracy :whistle: :rofl:
Muwahahahahahahaha.... Or something like that :dunno:
-
Something to be said for that theory, kinda creating an artificial lack of something popular (and maybe with a low profit margin) just to be able to peddle inferior models at just lower prices (thus higher margins). Marketing addressing a captive audience... :ahhh
-
I have pretty much determined that the Yeoman is about as close as I get to my perfect edc knife. My modified compact is the next most frequently used especially for dressier occasions when a 2-layer disappears better in pocket. I have bought many different versions to get to my conclusion but since discovering the Yeoman it seems to be the one I always go back to. There are occasions where I might want a saw or some other tools, so I go for the Fieldmaster or maybe in the future my newly acquired used Woodsman, especially more in camping or rural environments.
-
Same smurf, different SAK :salute:
-
It's not about the destination. It's about the journey... :cheers:
-
It's not about the destination. It's about the journey... :cheers:
I'll raise a SAK to that :climber:
-
I'm not sure there is a 'one' because we're not always doing the same thing every day. Heck, I have a SAK and a LM, the first on me, the second in my bag. I need pliers with a bit driver nearby but I don't need it in a pocket necessarily.
-
Which is why I envy those who carry one SAK for years. I sometimes think the choices are what lead to the journey.
-
My perfect SAK would be a Spartan with pliers. I wish that was a thing.
-
I have pretty much determined that the Yeoman is about as close as I get to my perfect edc knife. My modified compact is the next most frequently used especially for dressier occasions when a 2-layer disappears better in pocket. I have bought many different versions to get to my conclusion but since discovering the Yeoman it seems to be the one I always go back to. There are occasions where I might want a saw or some other tools, so I go for the Fieldmaster or maybe in the future my newly acquired used Woodsman, especially more in camping or rural environments.
After a few days last week, carrying the Explorer, I can see how the Yeoman would make a superb urban carry knife. It's quite a reasonably sized package, with all of the tools that I seem to use most.
-
I have a +B Yeoman that in theory felt like the perfect carry. I am a huge fan of the Explorer BUT why am I at times not content? I believe its the choices we have. Imagine only a few models. A few in each size category.
-
Having been through the following edc;
SI
Woodsman (modded with in line awl)
Explorer
Passenger (modded with in line awl)
Swisschamp
SI again
BuSchroder
SI again
I have now settled with a Farmer accompanied by a Rambler and without wanting to jinx it, I reckon that's what I'll stick with :ahhh
It's great that there are so many different models out there. I guess they can't make all possibilities available and keep the prices down. And that's what modders are for :D
In answer to the question, no I don't feel I am a victim of the amount of choices available - I think there are maybe a few people for whom collecting isn't a pleasurable pastime, but a weight on their shoulders and a constant need for more and more, but that's not many of us here, and at the end of the day, you have a fine selection of top quality tools that you can change around according to your needs and whims. :tu:
-
For 32 years I carried a Huntsman. If it didn't have the tools I needed, I found a way to make it work. I really think you finally settle on a particular tool set and go from there. I don't think I'm a Victim so much as I just love picking up something new. If only the Swisschamp or Swisstool had crossed my path earlier :facepalm:
-
My perfect SAK would be a Spartan with pliers. I wish that was a thing.
Exactly!! That what I want too for EDC. The blades on a Spartan can do what the scissors can, so I don't need scissors. However the pliers are handy when you need that little extra force your fingers can't give you.
My perfect outdoor/survival SAK is the Handyman, and the 111 mm Atlas or the Tradesman. Unfortunately Vic doesn't produce these two last anymore, so the ones a recently required are in my Queen shelf...
I don't like the Outrider model because of the scissors that are rather useless in a survival or outdoor situation.
When I travel by bike I take the Spirit with me. In my car I have a Leatherman Wingman, but I think I will replace it by a LM Rebar. I like the simplicity of it.
For small jobs in and around the house I use a LM Charge TTi.
-
They have the ability to make 84mm Explorers but??????????
Huh? I’ve not heard of this. Tell me more...
-
Each time I "settle" on a SAK I see someone post a picture of one that I was not familiar with only to want it. I thought the "perfect" SAK was blade, scissors, openers, in 84mm. Then the Cyclist finds me or me it :think:. No scissors but doggone it that wrench. I was primarily a Manager user but the PTC came to me or me it :dunno: it gets confusing. Are SAKs just meant to pair? I envy those who have carried ONE dedicated SAK for years, decades. Collectors aside for a moment, I'm talking about those who truly want to find the "perfect" SAK. Even with those who customize a SAK it seems they still seek. I think this was the brilliant intention of this company. Offer just enough options but NOT all possibilities. We'd inevitably want to PAIR them.
Well played, well played. :hatsoff:
To answer the OP, I'm pretty well settled. A Rambler, SwissChamp, and Trailmaster combo has been my daily carry for some months now and I haven't yet found a reason to change. They cover all my bases so well. The Rambler is the ideal keyring knife for me; and since I can carry the SC in either pocket or bag and use nearly all the tools, why not? :) I drop the Trailmaster when I'm away from work.
I have no envy of anyone with a more minimal choice. Everyone has their own preference and if it suits them, that's great! :tu:
I do get bothered that so much of my collection sits unused - the common models in particular. :think:
Pairing is a personal choice and I haven't seen much - if any - of it outside of enthusiasts, as they have a better knowledge of models and product lines.
I doubt Victorinox has had a master plan to limit their ranges to encourage more purchases. It seems more like a sensible business decision to me. The way I see it there's something for just about every regular punter. I suspect Wenger knives were more expensive than Vics because of what I understand to be a bigger product range (correct me if I'm wrong) and more frequent introductions of new models. Their more specialized models had limited appeal. Which company survived? Just me, while I have and like some Wengers, I've found none whose feature set I really prefer to a Vic.
-
Huh? I’ve not heard of this. Tell me more...
More wishful dreaming than anything. Couldn't they tho? I feel like they could if they wanted to :dunno:.
-
For 32 years I carried a Huntsman.
:like: Pretty awesome.
-
I was trying to be clever with VICtims. Its honestly been a fun journey. I enjoy pairing as much as the next. My Manager is one that seems to go well with most any SAK I've carried. My PTC is really growing on me more and more. I thought it was the newness but I've come to really like it. As for 58mms the Manager and Minichamp are among my favorites. I'd be interested I Signature.
Farmer is one I also like as much as my SI. Cadet 2 and 84mm Recruit really are fun to carry. 84mm Tinker or Salesman seem to be ones that I most enjoy but slowly the 84mm Recruit beats out the Tinker for pocket time. My Explorer might be my longest go to SAK (2013). I seem to continue to gravitate to it often. So much so that I finally picked up a backup.
I've yet to move up to the larger SAKs but I can see the allure.
-
More wishful dreaming than anything. Couldn't they tho? I feel like they could if they wanted to :dunno:.
I'm sure they could, at a price and if they thought there was sufficient demand. There will be economic reasons why all the 84mm models over two layers have been dropped. I really can't see any new models over that being introduced when the Delemont range exists. It's a shame as I like the 84mm frame as much as you do!
-
I was trying to be clever with VICtims. Its honestly been a fun journey. I enjoy pairing as much as the next. My Manager is one that seems to go well with most any SAK I've carried. My PTC is really growing on me more and more. I thought it was the newness but I've come to really like it. As for 58mms the Manager and Minichamp are among my favorites. I'd be interested I Signature.
Farmer is one I also like as much as my SI. Cadet 2 and 84mm Recruit really are fun to carry. 84mm Tinker or Salesman seem to be ones that I most enjoy but slowly the 84mm Recruit beats out the Tinker for pocket time. My Explorer might be my longest go to SAK (2013). I seem to continue to gravitate to it often. So much so that I finally picked up a backup.
I've yet to move up to the larger SAKs but I can see the allure.
If you don't use the "workshop" tools of the bigger knives, I reckon the Explorer is a great EDC choice. :tu:
I have such an irrational draw towards the Sportsman that I buy used ones at every affordable opportunity. Irrational because I haven't carried one in ages and ages, yet I still really like the model!
A late edit to add about the Explorer. I find it a very excellent kitchen knife. Blades and scissors for cutting open packets; can opener for opening cans :P and hooking hot trays and racks from the oven; flat SD/cap lifter for opening bottles and tightening loose slotted pot handle screws; Phillips SD for tightening loose Phillips pot handle screws; magnifier for reading ingredients and instructions in tiny print; corkscrew if I have wine drinking guests over with corked bottles.
-
Aside from the mods that I still haven't built yet (I keep having second thoughts as to the configurations), I'm pretty settled with what I have. I've tried a lot which have moved on to better homes, and no longer have yearnings for anything that isn't already here (either physically, or conceptually in terms of the pending mods). I've pretty much got an option for every whim, occasion, and combo, be it urban, travel, formal, or lightweight casual. In truth, that's mainly why the mods still aren't built yet, as I already have something for every role.
Urban is Climber-esque. It might be one of the Wenger Travelers, the modified DofE, Climber Small or Salesman.,
Travel is Voyager Lite, a Cybertool, "Brian" (another mod), or whichever pairs best with the plier tool of choice
Formal is stainless Traveller or PTC.
Off the beaten track calls for the Original Outdoorsman, Mega84, CT41, or again whichever pairs best with pliers of choice.
The alox Rambler on the neck lanyard handles lightweight casual.
I've tried the larger framed models, but sold what I had. Never bought a Swisschamp, the CT41 is a better fit for me. The thicker 85mm Wengers didn't work for me either. If anything, I still have too many, but that just means I have spares in case of disaster. Several spares :)
-
My perfect outdoor/survival SAK is the Handyman, and the 111 mm Atlas or the Tradesman. Unfortunately Vic doesn't produce these two last anymore, so the ones a recently required are in my Queen shelf...
The Tradesman is indeed a very cool choice. I bought one many, many years ago from The Heidi-Shop.
(https://i.imgur.com/hGKD4mXh.jpg)
-
The Sportsman looks like a great one. I carry a Wenger Highlander which I really like. I keep coming back to the simpler ones. I carried a Recruit then an Esquire then moved thru many models as we all seem to do. Lots of variations means lots of SAKs to try.
What got me thinking was getting my Cyclist. I carried it and it seemed so great. I missed scissors so I began to think pairings that made sense.
-
I like the Highlander too Aloha. I'm actually a big Wenger fan, especially for the 85mm size. An 84mm Explorer would probably be perfect, or even a Yeoman.
-
I missed scissors so I began to think pairings that made sense.
Buying a Tourist as my first Victorinox taught me to never buy a Swiss knife without scissors. That knife now permanently resides in the kitchen drawer. I genuinely can't remember the last time I carried a Vic or Wenger without scissors.
I've never felt comfortable with pairing two Swiss knives, or two pliers tools, or two traditional knives. I don't carry a Swiss knife plus traditional folder either. I can't help thinking that if I need that second item, my first choice was wrong. I'll happily carry a knife tool plus pliers tool though, but then my pliers tools tend to be knifeless.
-
I am appreciating the 84mm and 85mm flavors more and more. I have been carrying a Wenger Cyclist, Highlander, and PTC, once could say I am really liking Wenger a lot. I don't see many at the flea market so when I do I like to pick them up.
-
@AM, When I used to think about SAKs I thought about the simpler ones. As my knowledge grew I began to see more and more advantages of having scissors. I think I picked up my Manager around that time. Since I always carry it with me I don't feel I always need the larger scissors.
While I can completely understand your carry thoughts I see advantages of the 58s paired with the larger SAKs. My smaller SAKs are my detail tools. The Manager in particular with that excellent phillips. I treat the blade as a razor blade in use. The file/flat driver is my glasses tool. I do use the file for my finger nails at times. Oh and the pen, what a great convenience.
My larger SAKs are my tool tools, if that makes sense. While I told a story of how my Manager punched well above it weight I would not do that again. Also the larger SAKs just have more variety tool wise.
I dont use my work SAKs for example for anything but work related things. I wont cut food for with them. They are not my "do everything tool".
Most of my deliberations are centered around what to carry on my off days. I like so many possibilities and have so many options of which to decide upon.
-
Exactly!! That what I want too for EDC. The blades on a Spartan can do what the scissors can, so I don't need scissors. However the pliers are handy when you need that little extra force your fingers can't give you.
My perfect outdoor/survival SAK is the Handyman, and the 111 mm Atlas or the Tradesman. Unfortunately Vic doesn't produce these two last anymore, so the ones a recently required are in my Queen shelf...
I don't like the Outrider model because of the scissors that are rather useless in a survival or outdoor situation.
When I travel by bike I take the Spirit with me. In my car I have a Leatherman Wingman, but I think I will replace it by a LM Rebar. I like the simplicity of it.
For small jobs in and around the house I use a LM Charge TTi.
I agree. I'd pair this 'Super Spartan' with a classic. I think that would cover almost everything you'd need.
However, like you've shown here, there're so many different situations that you need to be prepared for. There's no one tool for everything. Great choices by the way.
-
I would never think 'choice' or the 'seeking' for MTs or SAKs is the "problem", but merely a symptom. The actual query could be what we believe our MTs or SAKs are meant to do, and a question about "needs vs wants"
I think I've mentioned the same thing in another thread that--I do believe most MTs or SAKs are meant to only address 80% of all our daily quick fix, and it is never meant to replace real tools or tradesman's tool kit. More so with Victorinox than the other brands, I feel their tools are the perfect embodiment of that belief. Not saying one tool can cover that 80% for the rest of our lives, since life changes and our needs change with it. But at any particular point of time, I do believe that feat is entirely feasible if we were to subscribe to that 80% theory.
I think the 'seeking' would only come, whenever we want more than what we really need 80% of time. Personally, I felt that remaining 20% variance will be almost impossible to address perfectly, unless we all start carrying a Wenger Giant as EDC. :D
-
I would never think 'choice' or the 'seeking' for MTs or SAKs is the "problem", but merely a symptom. The actual query could be what we believe our MTs or SAKs are meant to do, and a question about "needs vs wants"
I think I've mentioned the same thing in another thread that--I do believe most MTs or SAKs are meant to only address 80% of all our daily quick fix, and it is never meant to replace real tools or tradesman's tool kit. More so with Victorinox than the other brands, I feel their tools are the perfect embodiment of that belief. Not saying one tool can cover that 80% for the rest of our lives, since life changes and our needs change with it. But at any particular point of time, I do believe that feat is entirely feasible if we were to subscribe to that 80% theory.
I think the 'seeking' would only come, whenever we want more than what we really need 80% of time. Personally, I felt that remaining 20% variance will be almost impossible to address perfectly, unless we all start carrying a Wenger Giant as EDC. :D
Good point. Much of my earlier exploration with different tools, was just to try out the various functions. Sometimes they saved a trip for a dedicated tool, but it wasn't always worth carrying a larger tool for the frequency of each implement being needed. As time went by, I started to get a better appreciation of what was useful, vs what was baggage.
For example, as soon as I had sold the boat, a saw became less frequently needed. It's extremely rare I'll use a pocket tool saw now. There are times when I like to have one, but most of the time, it's unnecessary bulk and weight for me. Bit kits are the same now, but there was a time when I'd nearly always have one close by. However, even when I needed fully laden pocket tools, they weren't always enough tool for the job. If I ever needed a file, I usually needed a proper one, not a multitool.
I think we all go through similar evaluations, to find our own preferred formulas. Also, as circumstances change, so does the equation of what pocket tools are needed. It was always fascinating at the UK meet, getting to understand not just what people carried, but why. What might be utterly useless for me, was essential to another, and vice versa.
I can totally understand why some people find pairing of knives to be beneficial, even though it would go against the grain and be extremely irritating to do so myself. It's no different to other tool choices though, such as what plier tools we love or hate, pocket carry or belt carry,carbon or stainless, corkscrew or phillips, or any of the other polarising standpoints.
That's why we need so many choices through, because the world is populated by very different individuals. The knack is to understand yourself and your own needs, and then pick tools to suit - although sometimes you have to go through a few tools that don't work for you, before you start to understand why.
-
Quite much concept is knife layer, openers layer and stuff between as much as willing to carry. So basically I would take openers, knives and scissors layers to get best of vic. Quite much pioneer x. Other tools are more or less single purpose tools. Though in one layer there can be different tools like phillips / magnifier layer. So I see variations like vic concept plus selected single purpose tools in same package.
-
I try to keep my on person carry light and avoid pairing but right now I'm finding myself stuck with three knives, two of which serve almost exactly the same purpose. I'm generally not a fan of pairing tools but I'm willing to make an exception when the sizes get enough different as in the case of 91/58 mm. I tend to stick to a pretty minimalist load-out though (Spartan+Classic) but right now I find myself with a Classic and an old Companion (with the older file but a slightly inferior pair of scissors and without the T&T). Just enough overlapping pros/cons that I can't decide on just one of them. Hopefully I will make some progress in getting "the perfect SAK" this summer and be able to incorporate the T&T into my Spartan and get rid of the Classic
-
Most of my deliberations are centered around what to carry on my off days. I like so many possibilities and have so many options of which to decide upon.
Picking out what to carry on my off days is one of my biggest decisions Aloha! Choices, choices :facepalm:
-
I'll be honest and say I could probably be happy with just a Huntsman and the other 40 or so SAKs I have are just for fun. :D Seriously though; having choices is a nice place to be and between what's on offer and mods I can't think there a SAK that I don't own that I want. :shrug:
-
During many years my EDC was a Mountaineer and a Gerber Flik.
The mountaineer covered many of my daily uses.
Enviado de meu moto g(6) usando o Tapatalk
-
I went for about 2 years carrying only one SAK, an Explorer plus mod where I swapped the scissors and hook for a saw and fine screwdriver. Then a combination of urge to downsize, dissatisfaction with the inline phillips and just general boredom made me start buying more SAKs again. It's a disease :ahhh
-
Picking out what to carry on my off days is one of my biggest decisions Aloha! Choices, choices :facepalm:
That being the privileged problem of MTO member and tools connoisseur :like: :D
-
That's why I carried a Swisschamp since 1986 and now an XLT or Spirit plus a scissored Alox. I too believe they do it on purpose, not producing anything that covers all needs. Capitalism depends on consumerism. If we won't consume, then the market dies and companies mind die also, if they won't succeed to persuade us that we "need" another product.
-
My perfect SAK would be a Spartan with pliers. I wish that was a thing.
So... a Leatherman Sidekick???
I’m kidding)
I also suffer from this, but it’s not limited to SAKs. Every time I find the perfect mt+SAK combo, I realize I’m missing something critical, like a magnifying glass.
The fact I absolutely adore alox scales but can’t go an hour without getting a splinter doesn’t help one bit...
-
It's neat to hear about YOUR favorite SAK and what YOU'VE carried for so many years. Change happens so do our choices. Jobs, mobility, hobbies, even finances which can also effect our SAK choices. With a lot of variety theres no wonder theres a SAK for everyone. The modders have taken this to the next level which is also neat.
-
I'm retired for several years now, but I find myself still carrying the old standby that I used when Noah & I built his bass boat. That is the SwissChamp, It dosen't receive the beating that I gave my Champs while still working but I just don't feel fully dressed without it. Since retirement I am carrying more not less. I have added the mini champ & sometimes even the Spirit, wish I had known about that one years ago.
I pretty well have all the pocket tools I want plus extras so not looking for more but I would buy a SwissChamp with alox scales ............(sigh). :facepalm:
-
During many years my EDC was a Mountaineer and a Gerber Flik.
The mountaineer covered many of my daily uses.
Enviado de meu moto g(6) usando o Tapatalk
That's a nice sounding combination. The two things a Flik really misses is a file and a usable can opening and the Mountaineer has both of those well covered. :hatsoff:
-
Each time I "settle" on a SAK I see someone post a picture of one that I was not familiar with only to want it. I thought the "perfect" SAK was blade, scissors, openers, in 84mm. Then the Cyclist finds me or me it :think:. No scissors but doggone it that wrench. I was primarily a Manager user but the PTC came to me or me it :dunno: it gets confusing. Are SAKs just meant to pair? I envy those who have carried ONE dedicated SAK for years, decades. Collectors aside for a moment, I'm talking about those who truly want to find the "perfect" SAK. Even with those who customize a SAK it seems they still seek. I think this was the brilliant intention of this company. Offer just enough options but NOT all possibilities. We'd inevitably want to PAIR them.
Well played, well played. :hatsoff:
What we are victims of, is very brilliant marketing backed up with psychological studies in depth as t what makes people buy more of. Ass in the forums are also in the same business and people are being manipulated into buying what they don't really need, or buying what they already have an adequate amount of. Forums are sponsored by companies selling stuff. Thats way they call them sponsored ads.
They have it all figured out how to stimulate our desire to 'keep up with the Jones.' Car industry, gun industry, knife industry, clothing industry, figure outlaw tomato up just like the cat that will lunge at a jiggling piece of twine. I found out of I sty away from the forums for a length of time, my desire to buy goes way way down. When I leave for a vacation and fly someplace with just a recruit in my bag or mailed to myself, I'll roam all over with just that one SAK in my pocket cleaning fish, cutting bait, and then slicing limes for the cold vodka tonic. If I have a package to open, whatever pocket knife I have on me will do.
How many people really need a 5,000 pound plus V8 engined SUV to run down the grocery store, or commute to work, or even to go visit family several state away? It's all abut sales, and the right button being pushed on your ego to make you buy bigger and more expensive. How did our fathers and grandfathers get through a great depression, fight a vicious world war, and then come home and go about the job of raising a family and dealing with life with just a regular sedan, a regular little pocketknife combined with a Sears keychain screw driver and a P-38 on the keyring? Used to be if a person wanted to protect themselves they got a .38 revolver. If they wanted to carry , then they got a snub nosed .38. If they wanted smaller, they got one of the little .25 autos on the market like the baby Growing or a Beretta jet fire. Now the gun industry has the gun nuts thinking they need a Glock 17 and at least three spare magazines to just go get the mail. It's all marketing.
The ugly truth is, the average Joe human being is not that bright a bulb in the chandelier, and falls for advertising claims of the ridiculous nature. I used to, but for whatever reason, I got burnout on the consumerism of it. Now I just have three SAK.s and I get through my day still alive and functioning. I've sold off most my gun collection, the knife collection is gone, as is the tool collection. I have a basic tool box, a few guns, and a few SAK's. Theres one car each for the better half and I. The car collection of old VW bugs is gone, as is the Vespa motor scooter collection. I do miss the old Vespa PX150 now and then.
It's a trap. A very dangerous and clever trap. Not to mention an expensive trap. Try an experiment; stay away from the forums for two weeks. Or even a month.
-
What keeps me from buying up more models is bringing to remembrance my question to a poster on here from Switzerland : what do the Swiss mostly carry ? The answer ? Most of them carry a Soldier or Pioneer model.
-
That's a nice sounding combination. The two things a Flik really misses is a file and a usable can opening and the Mountaineer has both of those well covered. :hatsoff:
Still the best pair for me.
I really like them both. The mountaineer have all tools that I need and isn't bulky to my jeans pocket.
(Fidgeting the Flik is a pleasure)
Enviado de meu moto g(6) usando o Tapatalk
-
What we are victims of, is very brilliant marketing backed up with psychological studies in depth as t what makes people buy more of. Ass in the forums are also in the same business and people are being manipulated into buying what they don't really need, or buying what they already have an adequate amount of. Forums are sponsored by companies selling stuff. Thats way they call them sponsored ads.
They have it all figured out how to stimulate our desire to 'keep up with the Jones.' Car industry, gun industry, knife industry, clothing industry, figure outlaw tomato up just like the cat that will lunge at a jiggling piece of twine. I found out of I sty away from the forums for a length of time, my desire to buy goes way way down. When I leave for a vacation and fly someplace with just a recruit in my bag or mailed to myself, I'll roam all over with just that one SAK in my pocket cleaning fish, cutting bait, and then slicing limes for the cold vodka tonic. If I have a package to open, whatever pocket knife I have on me will do.
How many people really need a 5,000 pound plus V8 engined SUV to run down the grocery store, or commute to work, or even to go visit family several state away? It's all abut sales, and the right button being pushed on your ego to make you buy bigger and more expensive. How did our fathers and grandfathers get through a great depression, fight a vicious world war, and then come home and go about the job of raising a family and dealing with life with just a regular sedan, a regular little pocketknife combined with a Sears keychain screw driver and a P-38 on the keyring? Used to be if a person wanted to protect themselves they got a .38 revolver. If they wanted to carry , then they got a snub nosed .38. If they wanted smaller, they got one of the little .25 autos on the market like the baby Growing or a Beretta jet fire. Now the gun industry has the gun nuts thinking they need a Glock 17 and at least three spare magazines to just go get the mail. It's all marketing.
The ugly truth is, the average Joe human being is not that bright a bulb in the chandelier, and falls for advertising claims of the ridiculous nature. I used to, but for whatever reason, I got burnout on the consumerism of it. Now I just have three SAK.s and I get through my day still alive and functioning. I've sold off most my gun collection, the knife collection is gone, as is the tool collection. I have a basic tool box, a few guns, and a few SAK's. Theres one car each for the better half and I. The car collection of old VW bugs is gone, as is the Vespa motor scooter collection. I do miss the old Vespa PX150 now and then.
It's a trap. A very dangerous and clever trap. Not to mention an expensive trap. Try an experiment; stay away from the forums for two weeks. Or even a month.
So true. I went on a month long vacation in the mountains last year, using an old cabin as base camp, and going on adventures from there. Lots of 3 and 4-day outings, sleeping under the stars. I brought a ton of knives and such with me to the cabin. Most all of them were never used once. A Barlow pocketknife stayed in my pocket for the entire month, and a Leatherman sat in my backpack, waiting for the wood saw and pliers to be occasionally used. Once I got into a rhythm with my daily carry, all of the other knives were easily forgotten.
-
I'm finding that to be the case with me more and more.
-
My perfect SAK would be a Spartan with pliers. I wish that was a thing.
How badly do you want this?
Because there is always the Oath of Rutli. :climber:
-
How badly do you want this?
Because there is always the Oath of Rutli. :climber:
I think you would come out money ahead with a mod vs. an Oath of Rutli.
-
Marketing, perceived need, lust, SAK greed, collectors, users, ease in some cases of acquiring, gifts, they all seem to play into why a great many of us have so many. I'm thinking more and more its perceived need fueled by more than marketing. Having these little pocket sized solutions almost beg us to be even more capable.
Got a Recruit? Why not add scissors its only a layer. Hey why not add a saw. Next thing is we own a Swisschamp. Then we work our way back down the layers realizing we dont need that much capability. Its the 3-4 layers battle or for some its a firm 2-3 layer max.
Customs create a whole new dilemma.
I'm back to my Explorer with plus scales for now. Question is do I carry my Minichamp or Pocket tool chest :facepalm:
-
It's a stressful decision for me Aloha :facepalm:
-
Well for now I went with my MiniChamp :rofl:
-
:2tu:
-
Marketing, perceived need, lust, SAK greed, collectors, users, ease in some cases of acquiring, gifts, they all seem to play into why a great many of us have so many.
:iagree:
... perceived need fueled by more than marketing.
Fueled by ourselves, that´s the MTo way. :D
PS I don´t consider myself a VICtim.
-
Me either, just a "fun" way to title a thread :tu:.
-
Worth the watch
https://www.ted.com/talks/malcolm_gladwell_choice_happiness_and_spaghetti_sauce?language=en
-
Will do.
-
I think there's two ways to be inundated and overwhelmed by choice.
Firstly, there's the choices of what to buy. What size, what toolset, what scale material, what colour? I spent years wading through those scenarios, and experimenting with different combinations.
Secondly, there's the choices to carry from what you already own. That's where I am now. I still own more than I'll ever need, and there is no desire to acquire more.
I have selected a sub-set to run with for 12 months, and stashed everything else in a box to see if I miss it. I think I'm about halfway through, and haven't missed any of them. I'm quite content with the few tools I'm using, but it's taken a lot of time and money to get here.
-
I personally would be satisfied with fewer choices.
There are well known people who intentionally take steps to avoid decision fatigue - they wear the same black turtleneck or grey t-shirt each day - they always eat seven almonds for snack or have the same bowl of oatmeal for breakfast each day.
In recent years I've adopted many of those habits, and I really do feel like it makes my day easier.
SAKs are a fun hobby but deciding what to buy and carry is something of a sticking point for me - it stands out as being a harder decision than it needs to be.
It's not as simple as carrying two SAKs since the 54mm on the keys isn't always in the pocket - I don't take my keys on hikes, and at work I leave them in the locker.
I've made sub-sets too... That helps somewhat. I've got my outdoor sub-set, my EDC sub-set, and my shelf queen sub-set. Then there's my shopping list sub-set which I fortunately don't own. I'm fairly good at limiting the size of the sub-sets, the fastest growing one being the outdoor one.
It's the EDC sub-set that's slowly growing but causing me the most confusion. There are currently three in that sub-set - there were four last month. There's two more that I don't have that I want to get, which would fit in this category. Three is two too many as far as I'm concerned. Five would make my head spin.
In order to pare down my EDC sub-set I think I need to retire my '05 Soldier (the one model without scissors) but it's an old friend and I can't bring myself to do it.
-
Lots to think about from the last few posts.
Choice in an of itself creates a predicament of not been able to make a choice.
Missed opportunities. American psychologist Barry Schwartz finds that when people are faced with having to choose one option out of many desirable choices, they will begin to consider hypothetical trade-offs. Their options are evaluated in terms of missed opportunities instead of the opportunity's potential. In other words, after choosing an alternative with a plurality but not a majority of utility, people remember the sum of the lost utility rather than that they made the utility-maximizing choice. Schwartz maintains that one of the downsides of making trade-offs is it alters how we feel about the decisions we face; afterwards, it affects the level of satisfaction we experience from our decision.
I'm fascinated with psychology.
Schwartz relates the ideas of psychologist Herbert A. Simon from the 1950s to the psychological stress that most consumers face today. He notes some important distinctions between, what Simon termed, maximizers and satisficers. A maximizer is like a perfectionist, someone who needs to be assured that their every purchase or decision was the best that could be made. The way a maximizer knows for certain is to consider all the alternatives they can imagine. This creates a psychologically daunting task, which can become even more daunting as the number of options increases. The alternative to maximizing is to be a satisficer. A satisficer has criteria and standards, but a satisficer is not worried about the possibility that there might be something better. Ultimately, Schwartz agrees with Simon's conclusion, that satisficing is, in fact, the maximizing strategy.
-
Lots to think about from the last few posts.
Choice in an of itself creates a predicament of not been able to make a choice.
Missed opportunities. American psychologist Barry Schwartz finds that when people are faced with having to choose one option out of many desirable choices, they will begin to consider hypothetical trade-offs. Their options are evaluated in terms of missed opportunities instead of the opportunity's potential. In other words, after choosing an alternative with a plurality but not a majority of utility, people remember the sum of the lost utility rather than that they made the utility-maximizing choice. Schwartz maintains that one of the downsides of making trade-offs is it alters how we feel about the decisions we face; afterwards, it affects the level of satisfaction we experience from our decision.
I'm fascinated with psychology.
Schwartz relates the ideas of psychologist Herbert A. Simon from the 1950s to the psychological stress that most consumers face today. He notes some important distinctions between, what Simon termed, maximizers and satisficers. A maximizer is like a perfectionist, someone who needs to be assured that their every purchase or decision was the best that could be made. The way a maximizer knows for certain is to consider all the alternatives they can imagine. This creates a psychologically daunting task, which can become even more daunting as the number of options increases. The alternative to maximizing is to be a satisficer. A satisficer has criteria and standards, but a satisficer is not worried about the possibility that there might be something better. Ultimately, Schwartz agrees with Simon's conclusion, that satisficing is, in fact, the maximizing strategy.
That is some good stuff there Aloha.
Also the flip from choice (random) to decision (reason) based selection is another interesting thing.
Especially if you throw in what others around you are doing.