Multitool.org Forum
Outdoor Section => The Outdoor and Survival Forum => Topic started by: Mike, Lord of the Spammers! on August 22, 2007, 11:30:42 AM
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So what do you prefere to use when your out in the great outdoors?
For my part I prefer to use a kukri or large bowie for all of the heavier woodcraft task, as I've never really got on with axe's which I'm pretty sure has a lot to do with my built (I'm 6ft2inches tall and weigh 11.5 stone :o)
so I never feel in complete control of a heavyish fast moving axe, plus compared to a large camp knife my accuracy sucks with an axe, I'm lucky if i can get within an inch of what I'm aiming for :D
Plus I feel a big knife is far more versatile than an axe too. :)
So what about you guys?
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I like a good axe, and if I am planning to spend any significant time in the woods I'll bring one. But, since I don't usually spend more than a couple of days at a time in the woods (and even that is stretching it these days!) I've gone with the kukri as well. We'll see how well this one works out and I'll let you know if I want to go back to my axe or not!
Def
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Def,it's no surprise you're an axeman,you're Canadian,you're a lumberjack,it's in the national gene pool :D In my little corner of the world a big fixed blade is preferred.It can get so incredibly vine entangled that it could give a Vietnam vet flashbacks.
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I prefer large knives. They work the better for me than anything else I've tried. Normally I use a KaBar Larger Heavy Bowie while camping.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/665ae/Other%20stuff/bowiecmp.jpg)
(I know, I know... it's kind of a dorky picture :) )
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/665ae/Other%20stuff/bowiecmp.jpg)
(I know, I know... it's kind of a dorky picture :) )
well you said it not me :D
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Is that a becker?
So whats you favorite production bowie then mate ???
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That one is a Ka Bar Large Heavy Bowie. I love the thing. The other one I really like is the Kershaw Outcast.
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The other one I really like is the Kershaw Outcast.
I really love my cold steel trailmaster, it's just so dependable, But what i really want is cold steel's laredo bowie, god that thing's beautiful :ahhh
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If you like the big bowies you really need to check out some of Bagwell's stuff. Ontario Knives is doing production versions of them nowadays, and I used to have the Ontario Frontiersman, which I don't think is available anymore. That was a BIG knife!
Def
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Haha... one of my requirements for a camp knife is that it can't be pretty or overly expensive. I don't want to worry about wrecking it...
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In that case have you seen the Cold Steel Machete line?
Not pretty or expensive...
Def
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Yeah... I've eyed some CS stuff quite a bit. I really want one of those cheap two handed machete's, I think those would be some serious fun :)
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Those terrorist squirrels wouldn't stand a chance!
Def
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Those terrorist squirrels wouldn't stand a chance!
Def
plus the machette would double up as a spatula too ;D
anyone for fried squirel? :D
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Spatula, paddle... is there no end to it's usefulness? ;D
Def
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Spatula, paddle... is there no end to it's usefulness? ;D
Def
you forgot anchor ;D
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Three weeks till Squirrel season here... I may have to pick up a two hander and see how it works :)
I'll save some squirrel stew for you guys ;D
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I'll bring the thermos for our road trip!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYM5rRL5u4U
Def
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I'll bring the thermos for our road trip!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYM5rRL5u4U
Def
That's just awful :o ;D
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Just be glad the video of Steve Martin singing it in the bath tub wasn't included!
Def
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That one is a Ka Bar Large Heavy Bowie. I love the thing. The other one I really like is the Kershaw Outcast.
That KaBar looks like a great outdoors knife, 665ae.
For a long time now, I've been impressed with the KaBar line of combat/utility knives for outdoors use. They seem to be really tough knives - I've seen KaBars used to dig holes and pry on things without any ill effects. I've never owned one, but have used friends KaBars plenty of times over the years while camping and I do like them.
Could you comment on your Kershaw Outcast?
I've been thinking of getting an Outcast for brush chopping and emergency shelter building. It looks like it could actually be a effective replacement for a light hand ax. Maybe also good to keep in car trunk for emergency use. The design of its blade and handle looks great for chopping.
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That one is a Ka Bar Large Heavy Bowie. I love the thing. The other one I really like is the Kershaw Outcast.
That KaBar looks like a great outdoors knife, 665ae.
For a long time now, I've been impressed with the KaBar line of combat/utility knives for outdoors use. They seem to be really tough knives - I've seen KaBars used to dig holes and pry on things without any ill effects. I've never owned one, but have used friends KaBars plenty of times over the years while camping and I do like them.
Could you comment on your Kershaw Outcast?
I've been thinking of getting an Outcast for brush chopping and emergency shelter building. It looks like it could actually be a effective replacement for a light hand ax. Maybe also good to keep in car trunk for emergency use. The design of its blade and handle looks great for chopping.
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So what do you use Ringzero?
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The Outcast belongs to a friend of mine that I camp with quite often. It has a much more comfortable handle than the KaBar. Chopping wise, I think with the blade shape you can generate a little more power with the Outcast, but that's just going by feel. Aside from that, the only other difference is the price. I think the Outcast is like $20 - $30 more than the KaBar.
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So what do you use Ringzero?
If car camping, then I'll always have an ax.
If hiking in a short distance to a set campsite for a weekend, then I'll usually carry an ax along.
If backpacking, then I never carry an ax because it's too much weight for too little utility. I rarely build a fire or cut poles when backpacking.
I've tried various heavy knives, kukris, machetes - but none of those work as well for me as a small, light hand ax.
Currently I favor a small, light Fiskars ax that I bought at Lowes. (Same ax is also sold under the Gerber brandname.) Tough synthetic handle molded around the head. Takes and holds a good edge. A very strong and durable little ax.
In the past I've used Estwing, Buck - really too many other brands of ax to remember or list.
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So what do you use Ringzero?
If car camping, then I'll always have an ax.
If hiking in a short distance to a set campsite for a weekend, then I'll usually carry an ax along.
If backpacking, then I never carry an ax because it's too much weight for too little utility. I rarely build a fire or cut poles when backpacking.
I've tried various heavy knives, kukris, machetes - but none of those work as well for me as a small, light hand ax.
Currently I favor a small, light Fiskars ax that I bought at Lowes. (Same ax is also sold under the Gerber brandname.) Tough synthetic handle molded around the head. Takes and holds a good edge. A very strong and durable little ax.
In the past I've used Estwing, Buck - really too many other brands of ax to remember or list.
I've got one of those gerber pack axe's too, and you're right they are a great little hatchet, and they really excel at splittling smaller wood, and being so light you don't get anywhere near as tired as you would do with a regular axe :)
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when in the bush i use a sugar cane knife. i find its long broad but thin blade has unbelievable penetrating power, much better for very hard gum (or anything) than a big axe. it also has a hook on its back for lifting the billy or pot lids when cooking, and you can cook thin damper on its big flat blade in the fire. the ranger doesn't always like to see one of these, but they nearly always turn a blind eye. i used to carry two (kept razor sharp) to all campsites, untill a mongrel pinched one of them. i often still keep one in the back of the car. the blades are also great at chopping and slivering kindling off long hardwood offcuts. i saw a bloke recently carve a half decent cricket bat, stumps and bails from one big solid chunk of hardwood using a similar knife, in about 10mins.
this tool well suits someone with a rangy physique. because of its middling weight and aerodynamics you can get massive one handed blade speed and penetrating power..though it is potentially extremely dangerous. my fav all time tool.
a quick picture here -
http://www.orchardsedge.com/images/products/MA-61040/large.jpg
never use one to sample a couple of fat juicy stalks of sweet sugar cane ;)
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that reminds me of one these...
http://www.woodmanspal.com/
Nice knife matey :)
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never use one to sample a couple of fat juicy stalks of sweet sugar cane
Sounds like there's a good story in there somewhere!
Def
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never use one to sample a couple of fat juicy stalks of sweet sugar cane
Sounds like there's a good story in there somewhere!
Def
yep come on spill your guts ;) ;D
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never use one to sample a couple of fat juicy stalks of sweet sugar cane
Sounds like there's a good story in there somewhere!
Def
yep come on spill your guts ;) ;D
lets just say the edge of a canefield isn't my favourite place to hang out. the cane farmer's blue healer coming at you at 40mph can be an unpleasant creature to negotiate with. cane fields are also a favourite haunt of the dreaded Taipan, which unlike most other deadly creatures, can be aggressive and actively come after you, especially if his energy is high from sunning himself on the edge of the field, or hunting rats. and the cane toads are barely more pleasant. i know of someone who spent 8 excruciating months in hospital following a taipan bite..she was very lucky to survive. mass burn off season before harvest (a dying custom now due to technology) flushes all creatures out of the field..as it would.
having said all that, there is nothing quite like the satisfying taste of a freshly slashed stalk of sugar cane :D...just leave the car running and don't get bogged!...and ask the farmer first ;)
carrying the can knife often brings a wry smile from locals who know its true purpose ;D
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I've got one of those gerber pack axe's too, and you're right they are a great little hatchet, and they really excel at splittling smaller wood, and being so light you don't get anywhere near as tired as you would do with a regular axe :)
My Fiskars ax is the next size up, several ounces heavier and a few inches longer than the Gerber Pack Ax model.
There is an exact Gerber equivalent model, but I don't remember what it's called. One way or another they're all Fiskars axes, with some re-branded as Gerbers.
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never use one to sample a couple of fat juicy stalks of sweet sugar cane
Sounds like there's a good story in there somewhere!
Def
yep come on spill your guts ;) ;D
lets just say the edge of a canefield isn't my favourite place to hang out. the cane farmer's blue healer coming at you at 40mph can be an unpleasant creature to negotiate with. cane fields are also a favourite haunt of the dreaded Taipan, which unlike most other deadly creatures, can be aggressive and actively come after you, especially if his energy is high from sunning himself on the edge of the field, or hunting rats. and the cane toads are barely more pleasant. i know of someone who spent 8 excruciating months in hospital following a taipan bite..she was very lucky to survive. mass burn off season before harvest (a dying custom now due to technology) flushes all creatures out of the field..as it would.
having said all that, there is nothing quite like the satisfying taste of a freshly slashed stalk of sugar cane :D...just leave the car running and don't get bogged!...and ask the farmer first ;)
carrying the can knife often brings a wry smile from locals who know its true purpose ;D
You know we brits moan about the weather and stuff, but at least we ain't got snakesto deal with :o :o
Great story mate thanks for sharing it :)
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So what do you prefere to use when your out in the great outdoors?
For my part I prefer to use a kukri or large bowie for all of the heavier woodcraft task, as I've never really got on with axe's which I'm pretty sure has a lot to do with my built (I'm 6ft2inches tall and weigh 11.5 stone :o)
so I never feel in complete control of a heavyish fast moving axe, plus compared to a large camp knife my accuracy sucks with an axe, I'm lucky if i can get within an inch of what I'm aiming for :D
Plus I feel a big knife is far more versatile than an axe too. :)
So what about you guys?
I have used both and I have never felt that comfortable with an axe there is always the feel that I may miss and lose something important
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So what do you prefere to use when your out in the great outdoors?
For my part I prefer to use a kukri or large bowie for all of the heavier woodcraft task, as I've never really got on with axe's which I'm pretty sure has a lot to do with my built (I'm 6ft2inches tall and weigh 11.5 stone :o)
so I never feel in complete control of a heavyish fast moving axe, plus compared to a large camp knife my accuracy sucks with an axe, I'm lucky if i can get within an inch of what I'm aiming for :D
Plus I feel a big knife is far more versatile than an axe too. :)
So what about you guys?
I have used both and I have never felt that comfortable with an axe there is always the feel that I may miss and lose something important
I know what you mean :o, kinda of feel's like they could break away from you any minute ::)
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As a young kid (around 7 or 8 I think) I slipped with my dad's hatchet and put it right into my shin. It was a thoroughly unpleasant experience, and I am much more careful with axes and other large, heavy blades these days!
Def
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As a young kid (around 7 or 8 I think) I slipped with my dad's hatchet and put it right into my shin. It was a thoroughly unpleasant experience, and I am much more careful with axes and other large, heavy blades these days!
Def
I think you would be inclined to learn your lesson after that ;D
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Yup- I still have the scar today. Of course I am somewhat upset as I've got a few more scars that go across it nowadays, and kinda ruin it.
Anyone else you know try to fung shui thier injuries? :P
Def
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Yup- I still have the scar today. Of course I am somewhat upset as I've got a few more scars that go across it nowadays, and kinda ruin it.
Anyone else you know try to fung shui thier injuries? :P
Def
Nope i think that's one trend that's not caught on...
yet ;D
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Give me time.... >:D
Def
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Give me time.... >:D
Def
Could be a whole new direction for ya mate, you could start a forum with nothing but grizzly picture's on it, where we all tried to out scar one another ;D
might even get some women on that forum ::)
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I'm an axe man myself, got quite good at it a couple of years back when i was both splitting logs and chopping them up for firewood. I loved using the splitting axe, so much fun! Its weird though as my dad nearly removed his thumb with an axe once....would have thought i would have shied away from them...nahh!!!
Roadie
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I'm an axe man myself, got quite good at it a couple of years back when i was both splitting logs and chopping them up for firewood. I loved using the splitting axe, so much fun! Its weird though as my dad nearly removed his thumb with an axe once....would have thought i would have shied away from them...nahh!!!
Roadie
nuffink wrong with living dangerously ;)
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Give me time.... >:D
Def
Could be a whole new direction for ya mate, you could start a forum with nothing but grizzly picture's on it, where we all tried to out scar one another ;D
might even get some women on that forum ::)
I think I have most folks beat with that one... got a nice big "L" shaped one on my left foot where they had to rebuild it and put in 8 screws and a steel plate!
Nasty bugger that one... have a few other good ones too!
Def
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Give me time.... >:D
Def
Could be a whole new direction for ya mate, you could start a forum with nothing but grizzly picture's on it, where we all tried to out scar one another ;D
might even get some women on that forum ::)
I think I have most folks beat with that one... got a nice big "L" shaped one on my left foot where they had to rebuild it and put in 8 screws and a steel plate!
Nasty bugger that one... have a few other good ones too!
Def
Well I've got nothing that bad, but I reckon I could still run you a close second ;D
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Well, you know what they say about the number one cause of accidents...
There should be a Public Service Announcement warning people of the dangers of the phrase "Hey, watch this!"
Def
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Well, you know what they say about the number one cause of accidents...
There should be a Public Service Announcement warning people of the dangers of the phrase "Hey, watch this!"
Def
Been there, done that, some time's with a poor sod on the back of the bike ;D
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Well, you know what they say about the number one cause of accidents...
There should be a Public Service Announcement warning people of the dangers of the phrase "Hey, watch this!"
Def
Been there, done that, some time's with a poor sod on the back of the bike ;D
Unfortunately,I'm still doing it ;)
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I prefer large knives. They work the better for me than anything else I've tried. Normally I use a KaBar Larger Heavy Bowie while camping.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/665ae/Other%20stuff/bowiecmp.jpg)
(I know, I know... it's kind of a dorky picture :) )
You do look kind of cute in your camo pajamas. ;)
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I prefer large knives. They work the better for me than anything else I've tried. Normally I use a KaBar Larger Heavy Bowie while camping.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v645/665ae/Other%20stuff/bowiecmp.jpg)
(I know, I know... it's kind of a dorky picture :) )
You do look kind of cute in your camo pajamas. ;)
Them's fighting words mate ;) ;D, and he's armed :o
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I'm afraid to think about what he's doing to that poor chap on the right. :( ;)
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I'm afraid to think about what he's doing to that poor chap on the right. :( ;)
I think it's a case of not asking too many questions ;D
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That guy disappeared probally. Strange how a guy can get confused and dig himself into a hole and cover it up
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That guy disappeared probally. Strange how a guy can get confused and dig himself into a hole and cover it up
Please tell me your lawyer came up with a better line of defence than that!
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I'm thinking the fellow on the right is some Ford-driving, Big Mac-hating, squirrel hugger. >:(
:D
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I'm thinking the fellow on the right is some Ford-driving, Big Mac-hating, squirrel hugger. >:(
:D
You're close! He drives a Pontiac... (crappy GM products!)
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All the cool kids drive Dodges!
(http://www.bundy-quiz.de/images/al-bundy.jpg)
Def
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I'm thinking the fellow on the right is some Ford-driving, Big Mac-hating, squirrel hugger. >:(
:D
You're close! He drives a Pontiac... (crappy GM products!)
A Pontiac!? Well say no more sir, he definitely got what he deserved! (By the way, if the cops come around asking questions, we tell them that you were here with us that day.) :police:
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i prefer some small fiskar axe and this
http://www.condortk.com/productsdetail.php?prodid=25
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+1 for the Fiskars/Gerber axe's :)
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So what do you prefere to use when your out in the great outdoors?
For my part I prefer to use a kukri or large bowie for all of the heavier woodcraft task, as I've never really got on with axe's which I'm pretty sure has a lot to do with my built (I'm 6ft2inches tall and weigh 11.5 stone :o)
so I never feel in complete control of a heavyish fast moving axe, plus compared to a large camp knife my accuracy sucks with an axe, I'm lucky if i can get within an inch of what I'm aiming for :D
Plus I feel a big knife is far more versatile than an axe too. :)
So what about you guys?
So think on this. Why would you use an axe. If it's for firewood you are going to use deadfall. What kind of backcountry are you in. There is actually seldom a use for heavy tools such as an axe or large Rambo knife. Most times having one is a testosterone thing and does not relate to practical use. BTW fro us Americans translate 11.5 stones.
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First up, it's about 165 pounds :)
Secondly, we do have a need for heavy woods tool's due to the fact the even dead, standing wood, will usually be wet, and while I understand your rambo quote, at least as far as I'm concered, a big blade (Kukri in my case) is worth it's weight it gold :)
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First up, it's about 165 pounds :)
Secondly, we do have a need for heavy woods tool's due to the fact the even dead, standing wood, will usually be wet, and while I understand your rambo quote, at least as far as I'm concered, a big blade (Kukri in my case) is worth it's weight it gold :)
Car Camping - driving some sort of vehicle to within an easy walk to camp. Ideally the campsite would be right beside the vehicle, but a campsite within a few hundred feet of the vehicle still counts as car camping.
Backpacking - every item used for camping must be carried long distances strapped to your aching back while your tender feet cry out for mercy.
Car Camping:
-several multis
-SAKs
-axes
-kukris
-machettes
-big bloody Bowie knives
-anything else that strikes your fancy
Backpacking:
-one SAK
-one light fixed blade (often left behind to save weight)
-one light multi (sometimes left behind to save weight)
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Well I backpack/cycle everywhere, And I still feel that a heavy cutting tool, is a justified weight, as you can use them to make camp equipment instead of carrying them :)
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Well I backpack/cycle everywhere, And I still feel that a heavy cutting tool, is a justified weight, as you can use them to make camp equipment instead of carrying them :)
To each his own.
Packed like that when I was a Boy Scout since lightweight gear wasn't widely available, and what lightweight gear was available was too expensive for Boy Scouts.
We always packed along axes, folding shovels, folding saws, etc. to build fancy fire pits with multiple overhead beams for suspending pots, wooden camp benches, fancy latrines with seats, etc.
Thank God I don't have to camp like that these days. ;>
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Don't get me wrong I still travel light it's just these day's I know a bit more so I can carry a bit less :D
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Don't get me wrong I still travel light it's just these day's I know a bit more so I can carry a bit less :D
That's the ticket for covering long distances.
My Boy Scout packing was rarely more than 5 miles a day, maybe 10 miles at the most. We were always too weighted down to really make the miles, then we spent hours each day setting up elaborate campsites and cooking.
It was actually more like Pioneering than Backpacking. But, it was fun learning to build watch towers, bridges, etc. out of rope and available materials.
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I bet it was, once he's old enough I'd like my boy to be in the cubs/scout's :) (even though there not aloud knives any more ::))
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I bet it was, once he's old enough I'd like my boy to be in the cubs/scout's :) (even though there not aloud knives any more ::))
Scouting is a great opportunity for a father and son to spend quality time together. Some of the best memories of my childhood are the Scout trips with my Dad.
Without plenty of adults volunteering their time, the Scouts wouldn't exist.
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I bet it was, once he's old enough I'd like my boy to be in the cubs/scout's :) (even though there not aloud knives any more ::))
Scouting is a great opportunity for a father and son to spend quality time together. Some of the best memories of my childhood are the Scout trips with my Dad.
Without plenty of adults volunteering their time, the Scouts wouldn't exist.
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yep i aghree with this dude.i was a scout for about 18 yrs,and would be still but i didnt have time anymore due to fact im a family man with lots of job to do,and the only problem with scout organisation to me,ideologically s that hidden christianity forcefeeding.atleast here.im not member of any church,and i didnt do any praying or that bull,so it was better for me to quit.but still id put my kids into scouting for sure and see if they like it.its about only hobby that anyone can afford too,and they dont separate anyway the poor and the rich kids.
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Plus the fact it's a good excuse to buy them the official boy scout knife :)
http://www.heinnie.com/yapvti507091/Knives/Wenger/Evo-Range/Wenger-Evo-11-Scout/p-92-202-349-1886/
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh46/mickyd1234567/1886.jpg)
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I was in Scouts and enjoyed it. But yes that moral agenda can be a bit heavy. I think it kind of varies from one troop to the other. Speaking of father-son bonding I got a great book for my kids, "The Dangerous Book for Kids". Check it out on Amazon. You might get a kick out of it.
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I was in Scouts and enjoyed it. But yes that moral agenda can be a bit heavy. I think it kind of varies from one troop to the other. Speaking of father-son bonding I got a great book for my kids, "The Dangerous Book for Kids". Check it out on Amazon. You might get a kick out of it.
Yep I've had that book for a couple now mate, it's great isn't it :)
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I was in Scouts and enjoyed it. But yes that moral agenda can be a bit heavy. I think it kind of varies from one troop to the other.
Personally, I don't object to Boy Scouts stressing basic honesty and moral behavior.
The Government schools generally fail to instill any sort of morals in boys. Except maybe "honesty is for suckers" and "nice guys finish last" and "its a dog-eat-dog world."
As for the Christian aspects of Scouting, that will vary greatly from Troop to Troop even in the same local Council.
There are Scouts all over the world reflecting whatever the local religions may be: Hindu, Bahai, Buddhist, etc.
My Troop was based at a Protestant church, but we had Catholic, Jewish, Unitarian, and agnostic scouts.
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As for the Christian aspects of Scouting, that will vary greatly from Troop to Troop even in the same local Council.
There are Scouts all over the world reflecting whatever the local religions may be: Hindu, Bahai, Buddhist, etc.
My Troop was based at a Protestant church, but we had Catholic, Jewish, Unitarian, and agnostic scouts.
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It certainly does vary. My Boy Scout troop was based at a VFW post. There were lots of lessons in honesty and morality, but not so much religion. I never really thought about that--if there had been that religious influence, I probably would not have stayed around nearly as long as I did, as I am an agnostic.
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yep i too appreciate the things u can learn there about moral and honesty and brotherhood.we just had so much religious lessons and atmosphere that i had to leave it.i dont believe that they would loose any members by giving uop the religion classes away.its still like itsy bitsy brainwashing to me.im almost against to any religion but mostly those that use it to create terror and war against another.but i like our anciant myths and traditional beliefs that are close to wiking religion.well...anyone can believe and worship what they please,if they dont force others to do so and no one,not even animals gets killed in name of any god.
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As for the Christian aspects of Scouting, that will vary greatly from Troop to Troop even in the same local Council.
There are Scouts all over the world reflecting whatever the local religions may be: Hindu, Bahai, Buddhist, etc.
My Troop was based at a Protestant church, but we had Catholic, Jewish, Unitarian, and agnostic scouts.
.
It certainly does vary. My Boy Scout troop was based at a VFW post. There were lots of lessons in honesty and morality, but not so much religion. I never really thought about that--if there had been that religious influence, I probably would not have stayed around nearly as long as I did, as I am an agnostic.
IMHO, the function of religion in Scouting is similar to the function of religion in Alcoholics Anonymous.
Longtime AA members will tell you how important it is that they acknowledge the existence of some Power beyond our mundane human existence.
The details of whatever religion is involved aren't that important, just the acceptance that there exists some Higher Power. Acceptance of a Higher Power helps to curb human arrogance and wantoness, and serves as a basic foundation for morality.
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yep i respect that opinion too,its everymans freedom of choise and thats the way it should be.
i just happen to think there aint no higher powers,no fate.theres just you and what u choose to do and what u agree to do,and choises u cant make yourself if youre lookin at the barrel of a gun,physically or mentally.i dont believe a word in 2000 yrs old book but hey if u do,im not the hater.i may be intrested of things u arent,and i may have my own code of honour,and u have your own and that aint no problem,we just have to get along without big conflicts.
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yep i respect that opinion too,its everymans freedom of choise and thats the way it should be.
i just happen to think there aint no higher powers,no fate.theres just you and what u choose to do and what u agree to do,and choises u cant make yourself if youre lookin at the barrel of a gun,physically or mentally.i dont believe a word in 2000 yrs old book but hey if u do,im not the hater.i may be intrested of things u arent,and i may have my own code of honour,and u have your own and that aint no problem,we just have to get along without big conflicts.
I think avoiding arguments is for sissies and you're all wrong about everything :D
Nah, you kids are cool, even if you do carry stupid little red knives.
Anyway, I've always been of the Ash Williams School of Bushcraft.
(http://gardenfork.tv/movies/chainsaw.jpg)
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i dont dodge a fight,no sir but i dont drive my self into them on purpose :D
and i Dont carry red pocket knives.
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As for the Christian aspects of Scouting, that will vary greatly from Troop to Troop even in the same local Council.
There are Scouts all over the world reflecting whatever the local religions may be: Hindu, Bahai, Buddhist, etc.
My Troop was based at a Protestant church, but we had Catholic, Jewish, Unitarian, and agnostic scouts.
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It certainly does vary. My Boy Scout troop was based at a VFW post. There were lots of lessons in honesty and morality, but not so much religion. I never really thought about that--if there had been that religious influence, I probably would not have stayed around nearly as long as I did, as I am an agnostic.
IMHO, the function of religion in Scouting is similar to the function of religion in Alcoholics Anonymous.
Longtime AA members will tell you how important it is that they acknowledge the existence of some Power beyond our mundane human existence.
The details of whatever religion is involved aren't that important, just the acceptance that there exists some Higher Power. Acceptance of a Higher Power helps to curb human arrogance and wantoness, and serves as a basic foundation for morality.
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IMHO that is the function of religion period, not just the function in Boy Scouts. IMHO (again) The Boy Scouts should be a place for learning, not to help kids "change direction", as in AA.
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As for the Christian aspects of Scouting, that will vary greatly from Troop to Troop even in the same local Council.
There are Scouts all over the world reflecting whatever the local religions may be: Hindu, Bahai, Buddhist, etc.
My Troop was based at a Protestant church, but we had Catholic, Jewish, Unitarian, and agnostic scouts.
.
It certainly does vary. My Boy Scout troop was based at a VFW post. There were lots of lessons in honesty and morality, but not so much religion. I never really thought about that--if there had been that religious influence, I probably would not have stayed around nearly as long as I did, as I am an agnostic.
IMHO, the function of religion in Scouting is similar to the function of religion in Alcoholics Anonymous.
Longtime AA members will tell you how important it is that they acknowledge the existence of some Power beyond our mundane human existence.
The details of whatever religion is involved aren't that important, just the acceptance that there exists some Higher Power. Acceptance of a Higher Power helps to curb human arrogance and wantoness, and serves as a basic foundation for morality.
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IMHO that is the function of religion period, not just the function in Boy Scouts. IMHO (again) The Boy Scouts should be a place for learning, not to help kids "change direction", as in AA.
IMHO that is A function of religion - not necessarily the primary function or the most important function. I'm pretty much agnostic myself, so I doubt that it'd be worthwhile to veer off into a detailed discussion of religion here.
Unfortunately, nowadays many boys who enter Scouting do need a change of direction.
Many boys have no father present in their lives and some have never even met their fathers. Many have had little or no consistent training in basic morality, honesty, and respect for others. Boy Scouts can change some of these boys lives - some, not all.
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"Unfortunately, nowadays many boys who enter Scouting do need a change of direction.
Many boys have no father present in their lives and some have never even met their fathers. Many have had little or no consistent training in basic morality, honesty, and respect for others. Boy Scouts can change some of these boys lives - some, not all."
yes,i think youre spot-on about that.
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My point was more that I don't agree with the comparison of religion in AA to that of Boy Scouts, as not all of the boys need a change in moral direction. There are many ways to teach morals to children that do not involve the use of religion.
That is all I will say on the subject.
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"Unfortunately, nowadays many boys who enter Scouting do need a change of direction.
Many boys have no father present in their lives and some have never even met their fathers. Many have had little or no consistent training in basic morality, honesty, and respect for others. Boy Scouts can change some of these boys lives - some, not all."
I don't see why you have to lump those of us who knew & had fathers in the "moral, honest & respectful" camp,
We're perfectly capable of being utterly indecent human beings!
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"Unfortunately, nowadays many boys who enter Scouting do need a change of direction.
Many boys have no father present in their lives and some have never even met their fathers. Many have had little or no consistent training in basic morality, honesty, and respect for others. Boy Scouts can change some of these boys lives - some, not all."
I don't see why you have to lump those of us who knew & had fathers in the "moral, honest & respectful" camp,
We're perfectly capable of being utterly indecent human beings!
I didn't lump anyone into the "moral, honest & respectful" camp - that's a faulty inference on your part.
I'm completely willing to regard you as an "utterly indecent human being" whatever the status of your relationship with your father. ;>
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