Initial thoughts.. ItS FrEAking OvErpriCED! :ahhhHow much did you pay for the one you ordered, Sam?
How much did you pay for the one you ordered, Sam?
200EUR in Europe for P4.
I say PASS, although i saved the money.
There was an AMA on Reddit with the PM from LMN, in short no customization due to tight tolerances, yet the future can bring tshank and bitholder to the Free series (at least this is what is understood)
They gave us hope, yet it's a bussiness
If i get my hands on a P2 or P4, first video will be about dissasembly
I wanna know how good scissors in these MTs gonna have.
Only Tools Matters
Should have my p2 tomorrow :mail:
Nice one Olives look forward to see what sheaths you will make :popcorn: :like:
Love my P2. Used it over the weekend and have it with me now at work :tu:Awesome to read about your experience with the P2, Olives! :like:
So much so that i will sell a couple of LM’s that don’t get used as much.
Just waiting on some leather as I’ve run out, so I can design and make some sheaths/slips.
OVERPRICED!How much did you pay for yours and what did you not like about it when you received it?
I got my P4 a few hours ago. I quickly put it to use mounting a corner shelf.
My initial thoughts:
-This is a high quality tool. The tolerances are very tight. It most likely takes QC at Leatherman to a new level.
-As someone said earlier, it is gonna take some muscle memory to get used to it.
-The tool does not need a break in period and tons of oil.
-The phillips driver bites into the fastener.
-The scissors cut through a zip tie with little effort.
-I tested the wire stripper. When you lay it next to the tool/implements and pull it is by far the best wire stripper that I have used on a multi tool.
-The file while short, is slightly sharper than I expected. The metal saw still exists, and there is a wood file behind the metal file.
-These are not Wingman implements, but somewhat similar.
-The pry bar/package opener is stout. Real stout.
-The ruler is worthless. The tool is basically another flat driver.
-The tip on the end of the file just worked perfectly on a #1 phillips fastener.
-The awl has a sharp has a very sharp blade. I wish it had a sharp tip. I do think it will peirce leather for a belt, but will take a little more effort.
-I absolutely love the pliers and the ability of them to butterfly out. Click, click
-The tool is lighter than I expected.
More later.
I don't think these are overpriced to be honest. Consider that:iagree:
- If you are careful, you can use these tools for decades. Amortized over the lifetime of the tool, it's a good investment. The prices are a pain for collectors like us, but if you just need a good multitool in your day to day, it's worth it.
- Don't forget that LM basically exchanged broken tools with new ones, no questions asked. It is a great service that we know and love, but that has to be priced into the upfront cost, that the user might not being one multitool, but actually two, three, four etc.
Currently carrying mine in a modified small Heritage sheath at the moment- when its not in my pocket using the pocket clip..
Used it a hand full of times at work today- Main combo blade for box opening and heavy duty banding cuts and the scissors to cut banding and straps as well.
Holds up fine and very easy to access the blade and scissors and close with one hand quickly- in order to not scare any sheaple :whistle:
Planning on making a horizontal carry leather sheath, maybe with some straight lines and angles, like the new LM Leather sheaths and maybe copy some of the dimpling design from the Free's handles to put on the front/flap of the sheath? :think: and to try and utilize the pocket clip as well- so it clips onto the leather sheath and is then covered with the flap.
Overall i would highly recommend Free P2- for ease of use and the fidget factor.
Would love to see LM Produce some in BO or even Ti scaled with S30v Blade? :pok:
I don't think these are overpriced to be honest. Consider that
- If you are careful, you can use these tools for decades. Amortized over the lifetime of the tool, it's a good investment. The prices are a pain for collectors like us, but if you just need a good multitool in your day to day, it's worth it.
- Don't forget that LM basically exchanged broken tools with new ones, no questions asked. It is a great service that we know and love, but that has to be priced into the upfront cost, that the user might not being one multitool, but actually two, three, four etc.
The tools on one side did inadvertently open when I CLOSED the pliers one handed with a sharp snap. The outer tools stayed in place though.
Let's make one thing clear , anyone can post in any thread here on MTO. You will just have to take any comments that come even if this thread was started with the intention of only having people who own or are going to order a Free. That just isn't the way things work around here nor should it be. This is a forum for discussing tools, the good the bad and the ugly.
I don't like the fact that Nick felt the need to delete his comments that were posted in this thread. There was nothing wrong with his comments and he shouldn't have felt pressured to delete them. :(
carry on
:think:
Sorry, I'm a little confused by this. I thought they were all outer tools. What opened, and what didn't?
Otherwise, great overview. Thanks for your thoughts and pics :cheers:
I wonder what the engraving I circled in blue on the ruler/screwdriver means. Maybe a tool adapter?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/6f0abe3bddc8fa07b088f3d80d5600f6.jpg)
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I wonder what the engraving I circled in blue on the ruler/screwdriver means. Maybe a tool adapter?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/6f0abe3bddc8fa07b088f3d80d5600f6.jpg)
It is a wire stripper and works very well. You need to fold it down onto the tool, turn it a few times and pull.
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Makes sense. I’ve never used the wire stripper function because I typically use knife or my old electrician’s tool. I should have known though since there’s one on the SAK bottle opener too.
Makes sense. I’ve never used the wire stripper function because I typically use knife or my old electrician’s tool. I should have known though since there’s one on the SAK bottle opener too.
I’ve played with the tool some more and it is very well made. Lockup is the best of any multitool I’ve seen. Rock solid. It’s growing on me.
I have to assemble some SAR gear tomorrow so we’ll see how it goes. I’ll have a Charge with a bit kit available in case I need torx bits.
I have decided the sheath is bad. It sits too high and there is no accommodation for horizontal carry. Oddly, the sheath is made in China. Kind of funny since they made a big deal about the tool being made in the USA.
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They are on the inside when the pliers are open. When I closed the pliers with one hand I used a hard snap. The Philip’s and pry bar popped out a little. The knife and scissors did not come out.
Hope that makes it clearer.
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Can any of you guys that have one comment on the “hammer” that the pliers form when the tool is closed? Would you feel comfortable giving a few whacks with it, or does it seem like bad force to be at plying to the pliers and a likely way to smurf up the tool
:cheers:
Can any of you guys that have one comment on the “hammer” that the pliers form when the tool is closed? Would you feel comfortable giving a few whacks with it, or does it seem like bad force to be at plying to the pliers and a likely way to smurf up the tool
:cheers:
OK. I just received mine as a gift so I was surprised when it came in. It’s better than I expected but not fantastic.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/3c00eefb7aea2ce1c57824af00a5de24.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/4616f18c6b38fc540b7ba6deb437e1c2.jpg)
Th knives are nicely shaped and came moderately sharp. I touched both up and they cut well. Just wish they had better steel.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/448ef74cbe481bd71edecfceaa3a294d.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/0f3aee8d255c7bead0d109befeafdff7.jpg)
This is the side with the Philips and pry. Very thick tools and appear to be strong.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/308c0842ba8a646cad98097f9ddeedb8.jpg)
This is the Philips driver. I tried it on a few screws and it works MUCH better than I expected. Still needs a bit driver though.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/9a85da20970a2105b089a45ef487394a.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/95728bcd4c496241e6221197173ebf4e.jpg)
The pry bar seems especially well made.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/326b80a1def7223c01f43ede907388da.jpg)
This is the awl. I tried it on some wood. If you have a small pilot hole it cuts well but I wonder how well the tip will hold up.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/a56408f9ccb829f0e6ed72f58c84b7cf.jpg)
This is the medium driver/ruler. Looks a little thin but time will tell. It may work since there is a dedicated pry bar.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/c848c74b1caad9365162a3e848d3b8a4.jpg)
I really like the pliers. They seem to be very well made and strong.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/a46dd7410674b88ec09301c16ccace6c.jpg)
These are the magnetic catches. They seem to work well but I wonder how much metal they will attract.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/cbd328c8cf1830e17d978bf76d1704a0.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/8e1168b75821576ae1755d355d05b8f1.jpg)
The scissors work well and are better than the Wave scissors.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/07dde2868092d597816a3990542de4d1.jpg)
I haven’t tried the saw but it looks like it will work fine.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/7cf7f6ccfbea9cb30a48f95859c400d3.jpg)
The overall fit and finish is very good. The tools on one side did inadvertently open when I CLOSED the pliers one handed with a sharp snap. The outer tools stayed in place though.
This tool is well done but I still think it’s overpriced. The tools themselves seem no better that ST 300 quality. However, if this tool is upgraded with better knife steel, a bit driver and a t shank adapter it would be fantastic. As is, is decent but about $50-75 too expensive.
I was wrong about one thing for sure. It’s a great platform but needs a few changes to make it elite.
By the way, the sheath is definitely meh....
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The Philips seems to bite just as well as the bit. In fact, maybe a little better in the larger screws. Having said that, if you bend it you can’t easily replace it like a bit.Thank you, gadgetman7! :salute:
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I wonder what the engraving I circled in blue on the ruler/screwdriver means. Maybe a tool adapter?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190422/6f0abe3bddc8fa07b088f3d80d5600f6.jpg)
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:popcorn:
Looking good Monrogue :salute:Thanks!
Congrats, Monrogue! :woohoo::cheers:
Dear god, that phillips is thick. Can we really call it 2D anymore?
The splay does look reasonable as well. Thank you for the info and pics! :multi:
Can anyone comment or take pictures of the elastomer bits? Curious to see how the plastic parts are executed.Are those the black bits around the handle pivots?
:cheers:Thank you. Very cool with the pry tool and extra thick phillips. :)
Yes, both that and the prybar are very solid indeed. And flicking the pliers open and squeezing the handles in place has such a nice click to it. This thing is rather fun :multi:
Are those the black bits around the handle pivots?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/3176069c4994e7ce7548aee865fc8a11.jpg)
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I also want to mention the handle splay, which I’m pretty sure you’ve brought up as an issue with other MT’s, and is a concern I share having small-average sized hands. It is not an issue for me with the P2, which is also a plus (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/264fd21dff5751313754fbadc181042c.jpg)
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Thank you. Very cool with the pry tool and extra thick phillips. :)I look forward to your impressions as well :cheers:
Oh man. I gotta wait until after work tomorrow to get my hands on the P2. And then sometimes UPS doesn't deliver until 8pm. :ahhh
I honestly don’t know :dunno:
In the shot videos they mentioned it and how they tested it for a million cycles, but they never showed what part s they were or what they did.
Since it’s a new bit of “tech” like the magnets, I’m curious to see how it all works.
Thanks for the pic! :cheers:
Yeah, the pictures I've seen with the jaws closed, does look like an improvement over their recent trends in that regard. Thanks for the confirmation, and the open jaw pic, Kyle :salute:
I appreciate each who have shared their impressions and pictures of the new toys.
One item I have not read, yet, is the pocket clip and how the P2 and P4 will ride in a front pocket.
Thank you AWL
I can’t say on that yet, but will be in jeans at work on Friday and will have it clipped to my right front pocket.
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I look forward to your impressions as well :cheers::cheers:
Are those the black bits around the handle pivots?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/3176069c4994e7ce7548aee865fc8a11.jpg)
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Well they do appear to be plastic, but they are difficult to see, and to capture in a pic.
Wow. Your photos do a MUCH better job than LM's to showcase the fit & finish, as well as how nicely they are machined. :o
Thanks for sharing them. :cheers:
found decent review/comparison to surge
https://youtu.be/GrUlW2_I5PQ
Glad you got yours, Mons :like: Those pics show the tools better than I have seen and the Phillips definitely looks more 3D than 2D :like: The scissors look very well made as well, I am liking what I am seeing with the Free :drool:
My thoughts on the Phillips as well. I have tested it. It bites into the screw.
Glad you got yours, Mons :like: Those pics show the tools better than I have seen and the Phillips definitely looks more 3D than 2D :like: The scissors look very well made as well, I am liking what I am seeing with the Free :drool:
It work well. At least as good as the bits.
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If you want a long video that shows P2 and P4 from so many angles, so that you feel like you already own one and know it better than your wife, I recommend this Russian video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn2OQ7mXOQA
I still can't decide P2 vs P4, and I feel like this video is foreign interference in my purchasing decision. :whistle:
Thanks for that, I think I've seen all I need to now :salute:
found decent review/comparison to surge
https://youtu.be/GrUlW2_I5PQ
And he’s sold :woohoo:
:rofl:
:rofl:
Absolutely :tu:
Completely sold... on everything I already own :D
I am hoping that any other new models LM will makeWe've already got the best LMs ever made, and are using them an entire 30-day run. And they don't come in grey sheaths. :multi:
Will have a bit holder and the blade exchanger :think:
In that video above at around the 36.28 mark the tools comes flying out as he's trying to butterfly open the pliers :ahhh
In that video above at around the 36.28 mark the tools comes flying out as he's trying to butterfly open the pliers :ahhh
We've already got the best LMs ever made, and are using them an entire 30-day run. And they don't come in grey sheaths. :multi:
The Free, to me anyway, is an urban type carry with mad fiddle-factor. A P2 should be waiting for me when I get home from work. :woohoo:
I just tried a P2. Same issue if you snap the pliers open. Not an issue on the P4. Does not bode well for their QC. The video didn’t load but the picture shows the result.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190424/d4b7c5406fa60036403a49ff8da2c535.jpg)
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:iagree: thrilled indeed, Sea Monster. :multi:
To the P2.
I've been sitting around playing with the P2 for a bit. I feel the tool is worth the cost for sure. Not as excited as I hoped to be, but that is my problem, not the tool's. Going forward;
The tool is built very well and the QC is outstanding. The design should be worthy of MT of the year, because of HOW cool the engineering involved is. I have a lot of respect for the design, QC, function, and USA-manufacturing. It isn't going to dethrone my Charge anytime soon(since the magnet would get steel wool dust on them at my job, but I may try it anyway), but it sure is a kickazz tool. Very well made and fun to play with. VERY FUN.
Swinging the plier out gently, as is directed will not pop any tools out. At least not on my example. You're supposed to swing the handles out gently and then slowly click the handles into place anyway. I cannot get mine pop any tools out with realistic usage motions.
If you bought one (or thinking of buying one) and are worried about that, just swing it open and pop the pliers into place holding the side with the awl. That'll lessen the momentum incurred by aggressive flipping. The side with the blade is tighter and doesn't really have any possible hazards(the sharp package edge on the flat driver would be almost impossible to get your finger on this way). The blade is blocked from opening when the pliers are engaged, so that won't be an issue. The only tool that would cut you, if you are completely oblivious to using the tool(which tools should always be taken seriously), is the awl. But, that said, it isn't quite as much of an issue as is being worried about here. I hope that helps explain it and possible methods to reduce possible partial opening.
You could always use two security torx bits to tighten the pivot a little, if you're worried about any tools popping open when slipping the pliers or cutting somethong thick. But, if LM had made the tools tighter, then they wouldn't be easily opened OH and people would be talking about how tight they are. Catch-22.
Sidenote: I'll probably regret even posting about getting mine and writing what I think. :facepalm:
P2 pics. They're not very good, since several members have posted gorgeous photos already.
(http://i.imgur.com/zKTuKBc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/f2VnBmF.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1BOzT5z.jpg)
Totally agree with your comments especially about the opening method the more I play with mine the more I love it :iagree:
:iagree: thrilled indeed, Sea Monster. :multi:
To the P2.
I've been sitting around playing with the P2 for a bit. I feel the tool is worth the cost for sure. Not as excited as I hoped to be, but that is my problem, not the tool's. Going forward;
The tool is built very well and the QC is outstanding. The design should be worthy of MT of the year, because of HOW cool the engineering involved is. I have a lot of respect for the design, QC, function, and USA-manufacturing. It isn't going to dethrone my Charge anytime soon(since the magnet would get steel wool dust on them at my job, but I may try it anyway), but it sure is a kickazz tool. Very well made and fun to play with. VERY FUN.
Swinging the plier out gently, as is directed will not pop any tools out. At least not on my example. You're supposed to swing the handles out gently and then slowly click the handles into place anyway. I cannot get mine pop any tools out with realistic usage motions.
If you bought one (or thinking of buying one) and are worried about that, just swing it open and pop the pliers into place holding the side with the awl. That'll lessen the momentum incurred by aggressive flipping. The side with the blade is tighter and doesn't really have any possible hazards(the sharp package edge on the flat driver would be almost impossible to get your finger on this way). The blade is blocked from opening when the pliers are engaged, so that won't be an issue. The only tool that would cut you, if you are completely oblivious to using the tool(which tools should always be taken seriously), is the awl. But, that said, it isn't quite as much of an issue as is being worried about here. I hope that helps explain it and possible methods to reduce possible partial opening.
You could always use two security torx bits to tighten the pivot a little, if you're worried about any tools popping open when slipping the pliers or cutting something thick. But, if LM had made the tools tighter, then they wouldn't be easily opened OH and people would be talking about how tight they are. Catch-22.
Sidenote: I'll probably regret even posting about getting mine and writing what I think. :facepalm:
P2 pics. They're not very good, since several members have posted gorgeous photos already.
(http://i.imgur.com/zKTuKBc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/f2VnBmF.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1BOzT5z.jpg)
Totally agree with your comments especially about the opening method the more I play with mine the more I love it. :iagree:Thank you, gilson! :cheers:
Awesome! Glad you like it! :cheers:Thank you, gustophersmob! :cheers:
It’s good to know the popping open may not be as big a safety concern as I initially thought. I also didn’t realize the blades were prevented from opening. Good stuff.
As far as metal stuff getting on the magnets, how easy do you think they would be to clean off? Are they pretty easy to access?
On my P4 the inside tools opening doesn’t seem to be much of an issue. The P2 inside tools with the file can pop out when using the same force to lock the pliers in place as I use on my Charge. Swinging the handles hasn’t opened either the P4 or P2 tools - it’s when clicking the pliers into place that it happens. If the P2 were mine I’d tighten the pivot but as it is a loaner I’ll leave it alone. I don’t think it’s a safety issue, just annoying on a $120 tool.It is funny. The more I play with it, the more I think the price may be justifiable. It feels refined like a $150 folding knife in certain aspects. But, that said, an incredibly more complex construction is cheaper than some good folders. IMO of course.
On the other hand, my whining about the cost of the tool(s) is a bit ridiculous since I have several Chris Reeve and Hinderer knives.
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Nice, glad you enjoy it man!Thank you, Monrogue! :cheers:
I had to stop watching that video when he said he couldn't tell the difference in knife edges on the New Wave, because they looked identical. :facepalm:
seriously, just install the pocket clip and problem solved...there's also gimping on the serrated blade spine, it's really a non issue.Indeed. I like the guy's approach to the video, but it is obvious he isn't an enthusiast. :facepalm:
It is funny. The more I play with it, the more I think the price may be justifiable. It feels refined like a $150 folding knife in certain aspects. But, that said, an incredibly more complex construction is cheaper than some good folders. IMO of course.
How does it go as a knife?
I've found most multis (some more than others - the MP600 can sod right off) have "acceptable" knives for utilitarian tasks, but hardly a pleasure to use - does the P2/P4 have the ergonomics and blade design to really feel like a decent knife in hand?
In my opinion, the knife is more comfortable than the knife on the Charge. I also like the blade shape better. If they come out with an S30v version, it would be the best knife on any multitool I’ve handled.:like: :iagree:
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Toss my vote in for the file over SE blade as well. And then put a short SE blade, like the Sidekick, in the tiny file slot. Then swap the giant phillips for a longer, redesigned bit exchanger.
Call it the "Free P-Pro". :multi:
Toss my vote in for the file over SE blade as well. And then put a short SE blade, like the Sidekick, in the tiny file slot. Then swap the giant phillips for a longer, redesigned bit exchanger.I like this idea. I’d add the blade exchanger for the saw too.
Call it the "Free P-Pro". :multi:
maybe the metal shaving will clean off easy.
I reckon it will, Nate. :tu: While the magnets may attract stuff, opening up all the tools and cleaning it out, does look to be quite straightforward.That is what I am thinking.
Great awl shape, Matt! :like:
The P series awl looks like a good candidate for sharpening the tip. The driver tip on the file would likely be small enough for most flat drive screws.
AW,
Good point on the ease of clean. I got some steel wool dust on the retainer magnet housing, inside the tool, earlier today and was able to clean it off with packing tape. Duct tape would work as well I think.
Good thing is the tool isn't as complicated as it would appear. The magnetic systems appear to be removeable and replaceable if any issues arise. The retainer case comes out with the lock spring and pivot. The pliers closure casing slips out when the pivot is removed. I haven't tried loosening the pivot yet to take it apart, but will do so at some point and take photos.
Howdy folks,
I received my Free P4.
I took a ton of photos comparing the tool to the Charge, as well as took it apart.
Here is a link to the exploded view. (https://i.imgur.com/xA2sFKt.jpg)
Here is the gallery of images. (https://imgur.com/a/QG7viMp)
And finally a video review (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3l-FYPbHGY)
My biggest gripes are the small file and lack of bit-driver. I am planning a few mods, and I am currently working on a detailed 3D model of the Free P4. I will use this to design a custom fit holster. I do think it is overpriced, but I really like the magnetic opening/closing. I hate needing two hands and finger nails to use my Charge. The P4 will probably become my EDC tool because it is also slimmer than the Charge TTI.
----------------------
Magnets:
The magnets are 0.251"x0.511"x0.640" (6.37mmx13mmx1.60mm)
The magnets themselves are quite strong for their size. They seem to be high quality. They had small plastic guard, presumably to prevent the magnets from smacking into each other, which is great as Neodymium magnets aren't actually solid silvery metal as many think, they usually compressed powder which is nickel plated, and can break open.
On the inside of the tool the magnets make contact with the flat surface on each of the tools while folded. The magnets will probably pull away any metal shaving from getting into the hinges, but then any build up will collect on this mating surface. The good news is it is exposed enough with the tools deployed that you can probably get in and clean the magnet surface with a stronger magnet.
The magnets are secured by the thin metal springs in the tool. The little plastic bit doesn't do anything to hold them in place. I bet the plastic just makes it easier to clean off dust.
They can be replaced by require taking apart the whole tool.
Possible replacement magnet for future reference (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B841), and N52 model (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B841-N52)
----------------------
Modifying the tool:
The tool is just a stack-up of parts around chicago screws, you can probably take the tool apart and re-arrange the tools if you want. The screws have strong lock-tite on the threads.
The small screws and lanyard/belt clip screws are #2-56, the larger screws are #6-40.
Howdy folks,
I received my Free P4.
I took a ton of photos comparing the tool to the Charge, as well as took it apart.
Here is a link to the exploded view. (https://i.imgur.com/xA2sFKt.jpg)
Here is the gallery of images. (https://imgur.com/a/QG7viMp)
And finally a video review (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3l-FYPbHGY)
My biggest gripes are the small file and lack of bit-driver. I am planning a few mods, and I am currently working on a detailed 3D model of the Free P4. I will use this to design a custom fit holster. I do think it is overpriced, but I really like the magnetic opening/closing. I hate needing two hands and finger nails to use my Charge. The P4 will probably become my EDC tool because it is also slimmer than the Charge TTI.
----------------------
Magnets:
The magnets are 0.251"x0.511"x0.640" (6.37mmx13mmx1.60mm)
The magnets themselves are quite strong for their size. They seem to be high quality. They had small plastic guard, presumably to prevent the magnets from smacking into each other, which is great as Neodymium magnets aren't actually solid silvery metal as many think, they usually compressed powder which is nickel plated, and can break open.
On the inside of the tool the magnets make contact with the flat surface on each of the tools while folded. The magnets will probably pull away any metal shaving from getting into the hinges, but then any build up will collect on this mating surface. The good news is it is exposed enough with the tools deployed that you can probably get in and clean the magnet surface with a stronger magnet.
The magnets are secured by the thin metal springs in the tool. The little plastic bit doesn't do anything to hold them in place. I bet the plastic just makes it easier to clean off dust.
They can be replaced by require taking apart the whole tool.
Possible replacement magnet for future reference (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B841), and N52 model (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B841-N52)
----------------------
Modifying the tool:
The tool is just a stack-up of parts around chicago screws, you can probably take the tool apart and re-arrange the tools if you want. The screws have strong lock-tite on the threads.
The small screws and lanyard/belt clip screws are #2-56, the larger screws are #6-40.
Why do they insist on two blades? Ditch the serrated, and have a proper file.The serrated blade is the most-used implement on my Surge. :twak:
.It looks like the elastomer bushings could pretty easily be DIY replaced, if necessary.
I'm going to put this here just cause it's cool :tu:
I just got my P4 yesterday, and I don't have a lot to add except that I really like it so far, and I think Leatherman really has a winner on their hands.:iagree:
So much quoting. :ahhh
Modifying the tool:
The tool is just a stack-up of parts around chicago screws, you can probably take the tool apart and re-arrange the tools if you want. The screws have strong lock-tite on the threads.
The small screws and lanyard/belt clip screws are #2-56, the larger screws are #6-40.
Can I test your brain on one thing, please? What would be stopping someone buying a P4, and removing the knife layer to make it bladeless, if they lived/worked somewhere where a knifeless tool would be advantageous? I can't see anything beyond needing to shorten the screws a little, except maybe the lock release :think:
Really neat to see the tool taken apart and photographed. I qapprectiare all you've added to this thread. I was also wondering who would be the first to take their tool apart :D.
Think making lists is OCD? hehe :whistle:
(https://i.imgur.com/T9Ksfsz.jpg):pok:
I appreciate each who have shared their impressions and pictures of the new toys.Ok, here is a pic of my P2 clipped in front right pocket.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190426/03024455dc437353815c448da9cb026c.jpg)
One item I have not read, yet, is the pocket clip and how the P2 and P4 will ride in a front pocket.
Thank you AWL
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Great photos GLBM. Holy smurf they took ages to load on my crappy internet connection though. Do you resize them at all?:cheers: thanks, Syncop8r!
Oh and :pok:
Excellent pics GLBM and ZW :like: :tu:Thank you, W! :cheers:
Ok, here is a pic of my P2 clipped in front right pocket.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190426/03024455dc437353815c448da9cb026c.jpg)Very nice. :like:
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Looks like a good fit.
...
You could always use two security torx bits to tighten the pivot a little, if you're worried about any tools popping open when slipping the pliers or cutting something thick. But, if LM had made the tools tighter, then they wouldn't be easily opened OH and people would be talking about how tight they are. Catch-22.
...
... Victorinox needs to follow suit with replaceable cutters AND stop using rivets on the SwissTools. I like screws I can tighten/loosen/service the tool with.
Sorry about my wording, T-G!
I meant to implicate the problem with the SwissTools as the problems I have with them. My Spirit is almost too tight to use after 30 days at my work. And I'd love to be able to loosen the pivots to clean them out and reduce nail breakage. A little metal dust got in my Spirit pivots and not you can see the half moon scoring in the pivots, because I can't get them perfectly clean/loosened. I do not like rivets for those reasons. :facepalm:
No need to apologize mate, I have no problem with what you said.:cheers: thanks, man!
I mean, we all use our tools for very different things, and since I never had the tools on my Spirit/Swisstool tighten up I assumed this didn't happen on them. And I've always been able to clean them and remove any bits by cleaning them out using nothing but hot running tap water and a small brush. But like I said, you might use them for a lot of different stuff than I do.
P.S.: Just found out that the Free P4 will get to Belgium (and to me :whistle:) a little sooner than August ... :woohoo:
And I'd love to be able to loosen the pivots to clean them out and reduce nail breakage. A little metal dust got in my Spirit pivots and not you can see the half moon scoring in the pivots, because I can't get them perfectly clean/loosened. I do not like rivets for those reasons. :facepalm:
Just found out that the Free P4 will get to Belgium (and to me :whistle:) a little sooner than August ... :woohoo:
I loved the Spirit until this happened to me also. It was a nightmare to get the tools opening and closing properly again, and they still feel a bit gritty. It was when this first happened that my true love for the Wave began.Funny you mention that. I've developed a strong affection for the Wave and Charge. The exchangeable bit drivers sealed the deal.
Funny you mention that. I've developed a strong affection for the Wave and Charge. The exchangeable bit drivers sealed the deal.
And, of course as you know, we can take the Wave apart and make it function like new again.
The more people mention it, the more I wish, at least, the P4 had the driver exchanger or included a slip-over adapter that works with the bit kit. :multi:
Ah... the wealthy 1%
:rofl:
I do want to see it when we meet up!! :pok:
I'd love to be able to loosen the pivots to clean them out and reduce nail breakage. A little metal dust got in my Spirit pivots and not you can see the half moon scoring in the pivots, because I can't get them perfectly clean/loosened. I do not like rivets for those reasons... :facepalm:
I loved the Spirit until this happened to me also. It was a nightmare to get the tools opening and closing properly again, and they still feel a bit gritty. It was when this first happened that my true love for the Wave began.
OK now!!!
I have read through the two threads discussing the NEW P4 and P2 MTs from Leatherman.
Yet, I have not figured how these new gadgets can be had for FREE????
Many have said they have just received their new FREE P4 or FREE P2, but no mention of how they got it for FREE.
Am I the only one???
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OK now!!!I just donated $119 to Tim Leatherman's company and got my Free Free P2. Then I donated $139 to Tim Leatherman's company and got my Free Pree P4. :D
I have read through the two threads discussing the NEW P4 and P2 MTs from Leatherman.
Yet, I have not figured how these new gadgets can be had for FREE????
Many have said they have just received their new FREE P4 or FREE P2, but no mention of how they got it for FREE.
Am I the only one???
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OK now!!!
I have read through the two threads discussing the NEW P4 and P2 MTs from Leatherman.
Yet, I have not figured how these new gadgets can be had for FREE????
Many have said they have just received their new FREE P4 or FREE P2, but no mention of how they got it for FREE.
Am I the only one???
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You get a flat bit driver, you want a 1/4" driver, you get a single tool driver, you want a flat bit driver, you get replaceable cutters, you want more space and better gripping pliers, you get space and gripping pliers, you want replaceable cutters, you want tight tolerances and smooth action, but adjustable tensions and easy disassembly!!I have to agree. Not the way I worded it when I said something similar in the other thread(about there can never be a 'perfect MT'), but I can appreciate the crassness to some extent. :salute:
There's no pleasing you whinging smurfs!
I can only assume the design teams from SOG, Vic, LM and Gerber are in a bar somewhere passing a scotch bottle and commiserating over endless criticism they face at the hands of the MT.O members....
They only come free with the $120 and $140 grey sheaths
So the tools are FREE, the Super cool Grey Sheaths are costly?:rofl:
I get it.
The name is conflicting.
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You get a flat bit driver, you want a 1/4" driver, you get a single tool driver, you want a flat bit driver, you get replaceable cutters, you want more space and better gripping pliers, you get space and gripping pliers, you want replaceable cutters, you want tight tolerances and smooth action, but adjustable tensions and easy disassembly!!
There's no pleasing you whinging smurfs!
I can only assume the design teams from SOG, Vic, LM and Gerber are in a bar somewhere passing a scotch bottle and commiserating over endless criticism they face at the hands of the MT.O members....
Aloha- Your words make sense, yet, MTo is still a great community, made up of contributing (thoughts) members who can participate in a conversation regardless of the direction. And, it is known that we will buy any tool or knife that is made and justify that purchase.
We however, are not the targeted buyers. The manufactures want to lure in the newbie, the novice, fence sitter, because once the hook is set, then the search begins for the PERFECT Product for their needs.
We here at MTo have already been caught up with the itch.
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You are very right :whistle:. I do think however that the fine folks of MTO have the best of intentions when discussing these tools. I'd like to think we have some influence when the makers decide what next to build? Pretty sure we dont << pointing at you Victorinox >>.
There will always be one side no matter the perceived or real criticism that will be influenced to buy as a result of these discussions. They will have to see for themselves is their view. We dont represent the vast majority in terms of how we view these tools. While many here are heavy users or regular users even a greater many are enthusiasts that just like discussing these terrific mechanical hand held objects.
If on any level we can spark one or all of these makers, dare I say ignite these makers to not become complacent then we have done any and all MT aficionados, users, collectors, gift buyers, and every other type right!
Yes we moan and take the piss out of these makers but we also buy. We promote and we offer IMO a valuable resource to the makers and end users.
Again you are very right in your post and I absolutely liked it very much :salute:.
I would love to walk into that bar myself and listen to them :rofl:
I'm not sure...
We've got quite a diverse mix here, really. We're got...
A) Those that want to catch them all
B) The eager newcomers
C) The tinkerers, who aren't happy till they've put their own tweaks on a tool.
D) The heavy tool users
E) The occasional or light tool users
F) The settled ones, who tried all they want to, and are now content with a chosen few
G) The ones that we probably influence the most. The lurkers, who come here not to talk, but just to soak up all the diverse rambling of those who do post.
Here are some pics of my Free P4 (pics taken indoors with smartphone and bad lighting conditions ...)Very nice! :like:
(https://i.imgur.com/8EB9V1s.jpg)
No, it's not a typo, 199,95€ ... :facepalm:
(https://i.imgur.com/ZnOYzLn.jpg)
So much cash, and not even a new Leatherman logo sticker ... :-[
(https://i.imgur.com/JWd3FT2.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/ai0ViAG.jpg)
Even though I'm not from the U.S., seeing U.S.A. on the pliers of a new Leatherman again after all these years did give me goosebumps (okay, my Limited Edition PST's also have U.S.A. on the pliers, but the PST is not really a new tool now is it?).
(https://i.imgur.com/6ocSFO7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HJcsLSj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HRk3ROD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TJpTjbY.jpg)
H) The searcher. I have plenty of multitools that I use but I feel like I still don't have a perfect edc multitol. Still searching.
I just cannot get over just how expensive this tool is :facepalm:
Leathermans have always been costly to us Brits, but the RRP on the FREE series takes it to a whole new level. But yet, I honestly cannot see what the gain is?
Here's the first thing I tested ... :whistle:That needs to be posted to LM's facebook, and the giant biceps/small forearm-tattoo dude's page as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi1fJAZdrLI
That needs to be posted to LM's facebook, and the giant biceps/small forearm-tattoo dude's page as well.
That needs to be posted to LM's facebook, and the giant biceps/small forearm-tattoo dude's page as well.That a 4¼" tool won't fit into a sheath that is meant for a 4" tool? :think:
Here are some pics of my Free P4 (pics taken indoors with smartphone and bad lighting conditions ...)
(https://i.imgur.com/8EB9V1s.jpg)
No, it's not a typo, 199,95€ ... :facepalm:
(https://i.imgur.com/ZnOYzLn.jpg)
So much cash, and not even a new Leatherman logo sticker ... :-[
(https://i.imgur.com/JWd3FT2.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/ai0ViAG.jpg)
Even though I'm not from the U.S., seeing U.S.A. on the pliers of a new Leatherman again after all these years did give me goosebumps (okay, my Limited Edition PST's also have U.S.A. on the pliers, but the PST is not really a new tool now is it?).
(https://i.imgur.com/6ocSFO7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HJcsLSj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HRk3ROD.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/TJpTjbY.jpg)
That a 4¼" tool won't fit into a sheath that is meant for a 4" tool? :think:
If wet the black nylon and then fit it over the P4 and snap it shut, heat with a blow dryer it should then stretch and fit will going forward.
Edit: Just tested it again and with two hands I can close the snap-button. And I'm quite sure that when I leave it in for a couple of days it will get easier to do, maybe I should get out my camera and tripod and do a new Youtube clip :think:.
Here's the first thing I tested ... :whistle:
Video not worky :pok:
Ok, here is a pic of my P2 clipped in front right pocket.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190426/03024455dc437353815c448da9cb026c.jpg)Thanks for the picture of the tool pocket riding with clip. Much appreciated.
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Video not worky :pok:He may have taken it down, to update it since he did finally get it to snap shut. Maybe!
He may have taken it down, to update it since he did finally get it to snap shut. Maybe!I changed it so that only people who had the link could see it, at least that's what I thought I did. But apparently I made it private...
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Congratulations Top-Gear on obtaining the P4.
Or, did lovely Bride score that for you?
It is my impression that you have one fantastic partner who understands your passions and supports your hobby.
Now I am slightly jealous
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Thanks for the kind words mate :salute:.You are most welcome!
~
That's what 25 years together will do to you :D.
Whoa you got one already? How do you like it?
You are most welcome!Yep, meeting Tim Leatherman was special for all of us, and he did seem to appreciate the fact that my whole family was there and they all shared my tool/brand enthusiasm.
I know she is special, as you have share in other discussions. And I recall you meeting Tim Leatherman with the kids and pictures you shared. A good family bond.
Also, I have a special one as well
This Friday, will be our 44th married + 2 yrs getting to know one another.
I know, Off-Topic! Carry on.
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How is the Free’s hand comfort when pressing down in pliers mode, compared to the Charge/Wave/Rebar?I have mid-large hands and do not feel the little alignment 'nubs'. The lock tabs don't present themselves to my hands when gripping, but some people grip it differently. I'll get some grip pics up in a bit. :tu:
The lock release tabs seem like a possible hot spot?
I also see 2 strange little nubs sticking out of the handle in the grip area?
(https://i.postimg.cc/s23MBNpm/31-FE4225-DA90-4529-A8-CC-A8-F4-ADD25-AF6.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/K1sGwQp3)
For those of you that have gotten your Free series tools already, can you open the implements with leather work gloves on?The long tools would be workable OHO with gloves, but the smaller tools may take some technique to use with gloves one-handed. :multi:
From what I've been reading it sounds like you can actually use everything one handed (which is enough of a selling point for me to buy one) but I was curious if they work with gloves. I may give the P4 a shot at replacing my ST300 for work EDC. Thanks!
I like it, and fit and finish seems to be great but...Just to clarify, I don't think any of us think it is a game changer. Not that I know of anyway. I am a bit dense sometimes.
Do I think it's such a game-changer as Leatherman and others claim it is? No...
The locking mechanism is not as easy as it looks, at least not to me (maybe more fiddling is needed).
I also don't like the fact that they changed the position of the serrated knife compared to the Wave/Surge tools.
The tools on the awl side are very thin, I'm not saying this is going to be a problem, but they do feel a bit flimsy (if they should turn out to be easily damaged, there's always Leatherman famous warranty, and since I purchased it through an official Belgian dealer the Belgian Leatherman importer should help me with that without extra cost this time ::)).
But I don't want to sound too negative, because I've been playing with it all day and it is fun, and I do like it, but not so much that I'm going to put my Wave in the drawer and forget about it. In all honesty, If I could keep only one tool it would probably be my Surge or my Swisstool, not the Wave or the Free P4.
Just my 2 cents at this time, I haven't put it to work really, except for using the scissors and the Phillips two times.
Thanks for the picture of the tool pocket riding with clip. Much appreciated.
Is the clip removable?
Does it hinder the feel at all when holding either the P2 or P4?
I liked the clip on my Wave as an option to carry, but not when using the tool, the clip just felt in the way to me!
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I like it, and fit and finish seems to be great but...
Do I think it's such a game-changer as Leatherman and others claim it is? No...
The locking mechanism is not as easy as it looks, at least not to me (maybe more fiddling is needed).
I also don't like the fact that they changed the position of the serrated knife compared to the Wave/Surge tools.
The tools on the awl side are very thin, I'm not saying this is going to be a problem, but they do feel a bit flimsy (if they should turn out to be easily damaged, there's always Leatherman famous warranty, and since I purchased it through an official Belgian dealer the Belgian Leatherman importer should help me with that without extra cost this time ::)).
But I don't want to sound too negative, because I've been playing with it all day and it is fun, and I do like it, but not so much that I'm going to put my Wave in the drawer and forget about it. In all honesty, If I could keep only one tool it would probably be my Surge or my Swisstool, not the Wave or the Free P4.
Just my 2 cents at this time, I haven't put it to work really, except for using the scissors and the Phillips two times.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46802470125_4b8e4b9a4e_b.jpg) (https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/46802470125_50550a8278_o.jpg)
This is NOT a photo! :multi:
Well said GLBM :salute:
I definitely fall into the category of wanting a fidget favor MT as a moderate (probably even less) user, and I really dig my P2.
I'm not sure...
We've got quite a diverse mix here, really. We're got...
A) Those that want to catch them all
B) The eager newcomers
C) The tinkerers, who aren't happy till they've put their own tweaks on a tool.
D) The heavy tool users
E) The occasional or light tool users
F) The settled ones, who tried all they want to, and are now content with a chosen few
G) The ones that we probably influence the most. The lurkers, who come here not to talk, but just to soak up all the diverse rambling of those who do post.
H) The searcher. I have plenty of multitools that I use but I feel like I still don't have a perfect edc multitol. Still searching.
Very informative and helpful insight, particular to those who hasn't had the opportunity of owing or using one yet, like me :salute:. Thank you GLBM for taking the time to share this with us. :like:Thank you for the kind words and you're welcome, roamingcat. :)
I'd like to go over some of my observations again.
The P2/P4 are of the highest possible fit & finish I've seen on an MT.
The OHO on all tools is very nice, and the no-fingernail system works as advertised.
The pliers system is robust and well thought about. While the pliers opening isn't as large as the Wave's, it is still wider than their Swiss competitor's pliers. The cutter blades, which have a good track record, seem well incorporated and function well.
They are extremely satisfying to operate.
The price, at least in the US, is reasonable for the level of QC I see on the P2 and P4 I received.
For the features and effort that is involved with the P2/P4, the tools are well-packages and have a nice profile. The P2 pocket clip, which will be available for sale at some point, works equally as well with the P4. Neither tool is excessively heavy, if your a full-size MT EDC guy.
The drivers are better than anticipated, with the phillips well-formed and flat-drivers nicely ground for extra biting ability.
The sheath, moving on from jokes and not being horizontal carry, is well made and a good design for EDC in my opinion. The grey color fits the tool design nicely.
Some criticisms:
On the P4, the saw is somewhat tedious to extract with the thumb, because of the strong tool locks. The SE blade is somewhat difficult to extract, compared to the PE. Hopefully some break-in will help with that. I can still open them with my thumb, but it isn't as easy as opening the PE blade.
When extracting the awl, a little caution is needed, as opening it requires you to push the side with the edge on it. People with really soft skin should be careful not to slide the thumb on it when pushing open.
When the handles slam together in the pliers-open position, via cutting hard wire or snapping the handles together too fast, the drivers can pop out and say peekaboo. It only happened to me a few times, and it seems to have stopped happening with the pivots loosening up. Now, if they say peekaboo, they are pulled back in by the magnets right away. Note: the long blades cannot pop out, because the pliers engagement locks then in place.
The magnets, while a cool idea and super fun, will attract metal particles. The only way to deal with that is to periodically make a little roll of packing tape and dab the metal particles off of the magnet housing.
The pocket clip and lanyard attachment should have been included with both versions from the factory, since both the P2 and P4 work well with either attachment.
In short, if you're on the fence about buying one, then I recommend only buying one if you want a tool to play with and get moderate use out of. The Wave and Charge are still better EDC tools overall in a heavy-duty work environment. The P series would serve you well, but it wasn't designed or produces to replace the Wave/Charge. The marketing tactics were unfortunate and set the P series up for a lot of conjectured criticism. I hope Leatherman will not talk crap about their current lineup while promoting a new model in the future. The Free P series isn't for diehard Wave/Charge lovers, and Leatherman didn't respect that fact during promotion.
For moderate users who appreciate a sweet and useful 'sidepiece', the P2/P4 is a good option. Lots of unique features and awesome precision quality construction. IMO, the P4 makes the Vic Spirit look and feel a little cheaper than it used to. As far as fit & finish goes, and barring whatever design concerns you may have, the P2/P4 are outstanding in that regards.
I know I don't need to recommend the P2/P4 to collectors, but it is worth having. If only just for the fact it is unique and represents the different direction that so many people whined about LM not taking. They did a great job on the Free P overall, but there are some quirks like most MTs have. The price is reasonable, as far as US pricing goes(foreign market markup is ridiculous though), considering it is completely made in-house in the US. If you think it is overpriced, then there are many cool NEW unique design options from Ganzo and Roxon these days, for a third the cost. You just don't get the ultra modern design/style, all OHO no-fingernail function, LM brand, US build, or excellent warranty. But, hey, you saved a hundred bucks right?
Gerber and SOG still make pliers based MTs for a lot less money as well. They're just not going to be anything all that different to what you may already have.
Love your Vic Spirit and aren't much of a fan of LM? Maybe save the money for some more SwissTools/SAKs? That is what I'd do in that position. If I weren't big-time into MTs, I'd probably read this thread and move on to something else. I do remember the days when I was happy with a Vic Explorer and Gerber Pinchy. But, nowadays, I am always looking for special, unique, fidget-factor, and hopefully high-quality tools. The Free P2/P4 fits my current requirements for purchase. :)
Note: Sorry for any typos, run-on sentences, possible contradictory statements . I stayed up all night watching youtube videos and drinking coffee, while surfing MT.o. :rofl:
Edit:
Hoping the future pocket clips for sale will be the same as the one that came on the P2. I went ahead and put the P2's clip on the P4. After the Surge challenge, the P4 is gonna get some hip time to see the extent of the possible steel dust issue at work.
(https://i.imgur.com/RXNrTcH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/A5biFv8.jpg)
This might be a dumb question, but does anyone know if an oil-based lubricant (like 3-in-1 oil or WD40) will damage the elastomer spring mechanism on these?
Would anyone mind measuring the width of the P2 and P4?
Difference of opinion is good. :like:
You point out my problems with the Spirit. But, there is a reason. The Spirit seems to be the only tool people are comparing the Free P to. Wouldn't make sense to compare it to the SOG PowerLock or Gerber Center-Drive.
A lot lf members have a noticeable bias towards Victorinox. I simply don't find misaligned handles, using only fingernails polished implements, slippery handles, and tiny cutters all that appealing. My opinion of course.
I own 4 SwissTools, so it is obvious I like them. I just don't like to talk something up that has been talked up to the point of being a beaten dead horse. Note that my list of issues with the P4 is longer than my pros. I think yoy you have an obvious bias towards Victorinox, but have I ever pointed that out before now? No. I respect some people can't get over the idea of "Swiss precision". Difference of opinion is great, but most of us have bias.
Edit:
Oh, look at this.
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,80374.msg1921127.html#msg1921127
If I had a bias towards Victorinox I wouldn't say that, if I had to pick one tool, it would be the Swisstool or the Surge, than I wouldn't mention the Surge. Nor would I own more Waves alone than Swisstools and Spirit's together...
I can honestly say that the value of my Leatherman collection is more than double the value of my Victorinox collection.
But that's all besides the point. I'm happy you like your P2 and P4 as much as you do. I like my P4 as well, I guess that's the most important thing to remember, all the rest is, like you say, all personal preference. It's hard to compare tools while we might have very different jobs to use them for, or different laws in the countries/continents we live in.
Guess we're all a bit spoiled as well, with the wide variety of tools we get to choose from. So there must be something good for every one of us, right ;).
It wasn't my intention to offend you, just to be clear, sometimes it's hard to get certain nuances right in a language that's not your own. I hope there are no hard feelings.
Greetings,
Eric
:iagree: and i don‘t think he took it the wrong way. He is very enthusiastic of his new toy and that is great!No overstepping at all and thank you for the kind words, SirVic! :cheers:
I am the same way every time i receive something new in the mail. There will always be different opinions and that is a good thing. That way we can argue about our favorite tools and spend time in this forum :D
I hope i did not overstep my boundaries trying to explain you GLBM. If i did, i am sorry :hatsoff:
Great comparison pics GLBM :cheers: :like:Thank you, W! :cheers:
So where are we with these tools? Has anyone who actually has them had a change of initial thoughts/opinions now they have them in hand?I must fervently agree. As mentioned above, it is very unfortunate that Leatherman chose to crap on the Wave to promote the P series. Lets hope LM takes steps to rectify this behavior in the future. Even Gerber doesn't trash their own products when aggressively promoting theirs. :facepalm:
I continue to watch and read about them and for myself not changed much from my initial thoughts. I am glad those who have them are happy. I can see how comparisons will be made to other tools, fair enough. The comparisons I was most interested in was against the Wave as that was WHO LM seemed to go after.
Whether they can compete with the Spirit or Swisstool for me is neutral. If they can great if they cannot great.
LM irked a lot of us or let me be clear, IRKED ME. The droning on about this and that was not welcomed to me. I was and am only interested in how well these tool stack up against their own line of tools.
I am hopeful they ( LM ) is again making a quality MT that many of us appreciate. Seems so. I await some usage of these tools to see how well this pans out.
Will the removable bit driver fit on the P series Phillips shank?
Will the removable bit driver fit on the P series Phillips shank?Of course not, that way they can sell a new one :D Not that LM is alone in that. Other companies (not only MT related) do the same smurf.
Of course not, that way they can sell a new one :D Not that LM is alone in that. Other companies (not only MT related) do the same smurf.I don't know if attacking is as far as they went. They more so said that the P series is the best MT out there, and the implication is that the Wave isn't as good.
I had not heard before that LM is attacking their own MT to promote sale of the P series. Someone has a link?
Not sure what the reasoning behind that is. Doesn’t make sense in my mind to thumb your own product. Especially sine it is still on the market! If i did not know the wave my thinking would be: “Ok, so you are telling me the Wave sucks, but you want me to buy your new product that costs almost 50% more, in the hopes that you got it right this time?”
I don't know if attacking is as far as they went. They more so said that the P series is the best MT out there, and the implication is that the Wave isn't as good.
Most of the agitation over the promotion came in the form of the huge-biceps tatto-guy saying "you see someone with the grey sheath, you know he has the best multitool out there" and variations of the statement.
And he didn't say it once, twice, or three times. He said it almost every time he was being recorded.
My personal opinion is that the Wave is a superior EDC tool to the P series. And that the P series is superior in fidget-fun flippy-dippy poppy-doppy skipp-pippy action. That leaves the P series in a different subset of MT users(though, because of the toolset the subsets can overlap). Moderate users who want a 'side-piece' to show off and play with, that would still be useful in daily life. Kind of like a butterfly knife, but for MT guys.
Ok, thanks for clarification :tu::cheers:
Timmy L must have slipped some Rohypnol in my drink, because when I woke up this morning I discoverer that I had ordered a P4 from the Leatherman website.:rofl: good one pn :like: :tu:
Timmy L must have slipped some Rohypnol in my drink, because when I woke up this morning I discoverer that I had ordered a P4 from the Leatherman website.
Oh well, could've been worse ...That was kinda how I woke up when I realized I had ordered both the P2 and P4 at around 4am the morning they were released and didn't remember doing it. I had not planned on getting both at the same time. Damn sleep-aid induced decisions. :facepalm:Show contenthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyzYwvAdtSE
;)
:rofl: can't wait to hear what you think PN :salute:
Translation, they know and hoped not a lot of owners would complain :dunno:. They had to have known :think:.
Passion makes great members. Perceptions, well..... we all have them and so I like to remember that we all come here to discuss these wonderful tools called Multitools. Moving forward and continuing forward I am happy these tools are in the hands of you passionate members.
I am happy that LM for all our sake has decided to show us that they can produce a quality tool regardless if it is for everyone. Heck we all know there is no perfect tool unless its a modded one :whistle:
I love a lively discussion even to the extent of one side getting ruffled, so long as both sides respect each other. I believe this continues to be very true within these pages of discussion.
I cannot wait for you GLBM to test the living smurf out of these tools. It serves all of us, LM included. Breaking it or damaging it however wont tell the whole story. We've seen tools break. I just want to see the limits to which the tool can be pushed. Yeah a little sadistic ::)
So...out of curiosity I emailed Leatherman about the tools popping out when you cut hard wire or snap the pliers open too hard. They said, “It’s a normal function of the tool.”
Considering the time spent on this tool, I can think a number of solutions off the top of my head that might fix this.
If someone gets injured from that, they need their license to use tools revoked. IMO
The cutting blades don't pop out and couldn't if they wanted.
Tried to see if I could hurt myself doing that in several different ways, but haven't been able to. :dunno:
Not saying it is ok that the drivers play peekaboo, just saying it probably isn't a serious problem. Most likely why they put a flat driver tip on the awl, since that would have been the only poking culprit. The opener/flat edge, and awl/driver edge face inwards to the handles, so the likelyhood of cutting oneself that way would be virtually impossible, unless someone intentionally set it up.
We live in an age where cups of coffee have to warn the person who ordered it that the contents may be hot, and bags of peanuts say "Warning: Contains nuts". Even among tool enthusiasts, there are people who consider non-locking blades to be unsafe. No matter how foolproof you make something, there's always a higher calibre of idiot waiting just around the corner, but with this, they didn't even try. Making tools that accidentally deploy this easily, is not acceptable for a tool maker today, no matter how you try and window dress it.
The flat on each tool is the same size as the magnet. I don't think removing any metal would help. The gap between the tool and the magnet is tiny. Just enough to ensure the magnet doesn't get slammed into the tool upon closing.
I don't know if the magnets inside are the highest strength or not, but one easy mod would be to replace them with maximum strength N52 class magnets (https://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=B841-N52).
Great uses GLBM :like: :tu:Thanks, W! :cheers:
What happened on your last pic wouldn’t it cut :think:
Nice to see some action pics of the Free P :like:Thanks, RF! :cheers:
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Thanks, RF! :cheers:Cant wait! :cheers:
More to come. :)
Gadgetman7,
My solution for the testing phase.
Small bits fit snug in the back of the jaws. Larger bits don't fit snug, but could be used in a pinch.
Smaller bit fit.
(http://imgur.com/HBGN0qA.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/qfiwTKT.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/npZFtCZ.jpg)
Larger bit fit. Not good, but would work in a pinch.
(http://imgur.com/Qix8niv.jpg)
Indeed, not ideal, but until there is a slip over adapter, it'll have to do.
I'd like to see the SE blade replaced with a longer file, but that said, that little file can eat up some material. Have you tried that thing yet? It is similarly as aggressive as the Rebar file, which is the most aggressive file on an MT right now, due to the width and aggressiveness. The Rebar file would be the one I want in the P4. :)
Nice job GLBM :like: :tu:Thank you, Speedy! :cheers:
Great videos GLBM :like: :tu:Thank you, W! :cheers:
Thanks for the vids, glbm :cheers: :like:You're welcome, Poncho! :cheers:
Thanks! I should have worded that better. What I mean is that if my thumb isn't centered just right over the Philips and pry drivers, if it's slightly too far left, then the scissors will deploy with the Philips and pry when pressing the tangs. It just seems like they deploy too easily. Or maybe my thumb is fatter than I thought. How much force is required for your scissors to deploy? And can you get the scissors to deploy easily by pressing on the tang instead of the side cut out?Well, there is an issue, since the scissors and blade are under spring retention while the phillips doesn't engage the lock spring until the driver tips are about 3/4" away from the handles.
Wow that for sure helps! Something definitely wrong with mine haha. My scissors literally have no spring tension until the same point that the phillips and pry driver do. Check the video I added to my previous post. I was wondering why no one had complained about this yet.. I thought it might be normal operation!That videos answer it well. Thanks for posting them. The tool needs to go back in my opinion. I would be pretty disappointed if mine had that issue. Perhaps a first run problem that was fixed fairly quickly? But, the example you bought, was part of the bad batch. :think:
Here's a better video showing the lack of spring retention:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmkgcZn19NE
Nice to see some usage and more thoughts :tu: I haven’t used mine much, but that’s normal for me. My scissors do take some effort to deploy though, so no looseness on mine. The bottle opener works well though, better than any other MT opener I’ve used.Nice. :like:
That videos answer it well. Thanks for posting them. The tool needs to go back in my opinion. I would be pretty disappointed if mine had that issue. Perhaps a first run problem that was fixed fairly quickly? But, the example you bought, was part of the bad batch. :think:
Any side handle flex when using screwdriver in L-position? Especially in the pliers fasteners place.I'll check today, but keep in mind, MTs with all-outboard tools(Free, Spirit, Bear Jaws, etc) are far more susceptible to handle torsion. Specifically why they say not to use them that way. :rofl:
I'll check today, but keep in mind, MTs with all-outboard tools(Free, Spirit, Bear Jaws, etc) are far more susceptible to handle torsion. Specifically why they say not to use them that way. :rofl:Thanks GLBM!
But, we'll see how it does. I betcha it won't t-handle like a Wave/Surge(added channelling for outboard blades over inboard tools makes it easy). :multi:
Nice work GLBM do you think the file is strong enoughTrue. I modulate the driver usage on file tips. The machine screws I tightened weren't high torque. The phillips driver wouldn't turn inside the recess. Same problem with the Wave/Surge bits. The file/driver turned in the recess though. :)
to be a screwdriver as normally they are quite brittle :think:
I'm glad that file looks aggressive.Indeed. The only reason I would call ot a file. The cut of the file works well. Kind of like a Rebar file cut or Spirit file cut.
You're certainly welcome, nwoody. :cheers:
First confirmed QC issue so far: Tang grind incorrect on scissors and partially engages with adjacent drivers.
There's a pretty bad one in the amazon reviews, guy posted a video. Aside from that just see people on youtube complaining about some hot spots, tools popping out and price, but there are a lot more positives then negatives :cheers:My feelings are good about it, but I did have a lengthy list of complaints. Like any new MT design, it takes some adjustment time. The list has shortened a bit with using the P4 with my EDC. The break-in period resulted in the magnets actually pulling the drivers back in if they play peekaboo, which is good. And learning to use the handle profile has made it quite comfortable to use.
The guys talking My feelings are good about it, but I did have a lengthy list of complaints. Like any new MT design, it takes some adjustment time. The list has shortened a bit with using the P4 with my EDC. The break-in period resulted in the magnets actually pulling the drivers back in if they play peekaboo, which is good. And learning to use the handle profile has made it quite comfortable to use.
People complaining about the price is fine(US labor and new-tool R&D aren't cheap), but some of those guys have $150 Benchmade and Spyderco folding knives. Do they even realize how much more involved an MT is to produce than a folding knife? :dunno:
Thanks for the thorough review and testing :salute: Glad it's working out for you.:cheers:
The guy on amazon with the P4 review/vid seems to have a poor copy, it almost looks like it exploded at the plier mount lol, But it's probably a rare case. The crybabies complaining about the high price? They knew it was expensive so why moan & groan...The Steel on those knives you mention are much higher quality than LM's but I always think they are too pricey as well.
Welcome nwoody :salute:. Thanks for posting your tools issue. I do hope LM gets you sorted VERY fast and checks outgoing tools for any possible scissor issues for all tools heading out.
For the very first time, I am actually going lean towards the spirit. While I do not use a spirit due to the way they design their wire cutter. It's just not suitable for me. But the feel and ergo of using it is very smooth. There's nothing that poke back at my palm. Be it using the pliers or the inboard tool. Everything is just smooth. It a very classic looker for sure. For work, I mainly use a LM or Gerber. Their tools and pliers just works for me. LM is a true workhorse, designed with functionality in mind. But their finishing were never quite the best. Be it a wave, charge or Free series, there are always some edges or parts that are not properly smoothed out. Leaving users to rectify themself. So, my very personal opinion and experience, Vic finishing are top notch. LM, works beautifully but hurts, sometimes. Very very own opinion. Not intended to offend either camps.I’d have to agree about the ergonomics. Neither the Swisstool nor the Spirit poke my hands like the Leatherman Free. Even the Wave doesn’t feel as good when you use the pliers. The Free is particularly aggravating with the tabs on the locks though.
I’d have to agree about the ergonomics. Neither the Swisstool nor the Spirit poke my hands like the Leatherman Free. Even the Wave doesn’t feel as good when you use the pliers. The Free is particularly aggravating with the tabs on the locks though.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Made myself carry just the P2 for work today. Its a new tool, capability was quite unknown, untested.
My routine work involves opening packages, boxes, cutting copper cables, stripping, wire terminations on terminal blocks and I also get to screw many stuffs. End of my work day, very unfortunately, I have to say I am quite disappointed. First off, I didn't like the resistance when opening the main blade. It is not overly strong, but can be felt and if I am not careful, there is the chance of slippage and the blade will spring back. Just doesn't feel fluid. Also attempted to use the flat heads for termination but very soon realise it is not a very good idea. The the shaft of the drivers are sharp. One is an awl and the other is a file. It can scratch, cut, damage anything close enough. Though they are pretty long reach, They are also tapered and are useless for recessed screws. They are also made too thin to give u any kind of confidence when using them. I do not like that 3 Flat head screwdrivers at all. :( One thing that starts to annoy me is, this is one noisy pliers to deploy. When locking down the pliers, the snap is loud and catches attention. Anyone within 5m knows that u are opening the pliers. I didn't like the tension of that spring when closing either, its taking too much effort to open and close that pliers due to that spring latch/lock thing. I did some sanding around the sharp points and corner to try to make it more comfortable but no matter what I can still feel that spring tab and the handle ends working into my palm when using the pliers.
On the slightly brighter side, I manage to break in my pliers and they open and closes freely now. They work as they should but they feel just like any normal properly working LM pliers. Strongest? Not sure, feels the same to me but I do notice they are very slightly thinner than the ones on the wave plus which shouldn't make any real difference for the strength and durability. The "new" replaceable cutter definitely works better than the older model as they are grounded steeper. But these cutters are now common to the newer batch of tools from the factory. ST300, wave plus etc. Scissor, no complaints. Almost the perfect size and have a very decent cutting power.
End of the day, I feel very compromised. I really wanted to like this tool but for what it offers, with the fresh and newer ( slightly irritating) design, I still do not feel that this tool is an upgrade over a regular wave plus. :(
Good review Sam ! :cheers:
I don't see myself getting either of these tools in the future.
Sorry to read you did not enjoy your P2, Sam. Maybe there will be a way to mod it in the future to possibly help make it enjoyable like the modded tools you have that you enjoy. :)
Good review Sam :cheers:
I can’t see myself getting any of them two neither
Just hope that they will start making other models with a flat bit driver :tu:
Posted 2 mins apart. :) See reply to Steve above... I really wish I can enjoy it as much as you are. Keep rocking dude. :tu:
Just a mindless rant for something I considered too overpriced. They did well for the advertising and marketing. ::)For me it hasn’t got any tools where I see
Thanks for the insights, Sam. Unfortunately there isn't anything there that I hadn't expected, aside from the resistance on blade deployment. Tapered drivers are always going to be problematic on recessed fastenings, and mounting drivers on the end of cutting implements isn't what. We'd expect to see from a seasoned toolmaker either. It's a lot of money to pay, to be left disappointed :(
Sam would you carry this tool around the house for casual use? Is this a tool that on a off day would make a good companion?
Well that stinks :rant:. For the collection then.......... :multi:
I wouldn't go that far ...Well said, T-G! :iagree:
Yes, the Free P4 doesn't offer that sturdy "I can handle anything" feeling that the Wave/Charge gives you, but this does not mean it will certainly let you down when you use it. As others have said here before, as long as you understand that the Free is more of a "fun to play with" tool and not something that can replace the Wave/Charge, or Surge/ST300 while working a construction site, you'll be fine.
When you go for a hike in the outdoors, or a trip to the city and you just want to bring a tool in case you need to fix something along the way, like unscrewing the battery compartment from a certain device, or filing down a sharp edge on something that broke during you trip, or cutting a piece of metal wire to hold up the exhaust on your car to prevent it from dragging under your car all the way back ... you know, just one of those things that occasionally happen and which can ruin your day, I'm pretty sure the Free will deliver.
It's just not the tool to take with you when you know you're going to cut hardwire 2 hours in a row, or when you need to screw in 200 screws by hand, or ... You guys know what I mean, right ?
And for all you "tool-photographers" out there, it does make for some sweet pics. I would place it next to the classic Leatherman tools like the original Supertool, the PST, etc ... and the new "old style" tools like the Rebar and the ST300 (and once again, last but not least, the Swisstool) when it comes to being photogenic.Show content(https://i.imgur.com/7pub002.jpg)
And in my opinion, it is fun to play with, just as I like to play with my Gerber MP600 (sliding pliers :woohoo:), or the mechanickal "bolt action rifle" clicks you get from opening and closing a Swisstool.
Just my 2 cents ;).
Thank you TG24. I wasn't generalizing I was more directing those comments to Sam ;). If the tool was going to be more for his collection purposes only based on his experiences so far.
I wholeheartedly agree this tool looks to be a fine tool. I like Sams follow up :cheers:. Since he is not able to take advantage of LMs warranty he will have to, for now, not push the tool beyond his comfort. Also that this tool is a "whole new thing". I am applauding LM for this.
I dont foresee failures, materials that is. The drivers snapping, plier jaws breaking, etc etc. Its not out of the question but until we actually see we can only guess. I do hope this tool in those of you who have them continue to experience positive feelings from them. The Free series while spendy for some sure looks every bit a tool for things that pop up. TG24 you couldn't have said it better. Might not replace anything in LMs lineup but theres really no need to. We've got heavy duty tools and light duty tools. We have room for in between tools.
Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier.
Hard to get any pics without any shade today, but here are a few.Nice pics GLBM :like: :tu:
Nice pics GLBM :like: :tu:Thanks, W! :cheers:
maybe the uncoded ones will be collectors items in the future, being the first ones made :dunno:I think you're right. I spent all evening changing the handles with the date stamp out between the dated and undated ones. :facepalm:
I think you're right. I spent all evening changing the handles with the date stamp out between the dated and undated ones. :facepalm:
Note: Check the polarity of the magnets before putting the stuff back together. I had one all together and popped the pliers back in and the handles were repelling each other. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
that sounds cool, on this end :rofl: I'm sure it sucked tho:rofl: :iagree:
Hello there, i have ordered a P4 and can't wait to get it. Today or tommorow.Congrats, Raoul! :like:
Anyway... I heard that LMN will/is shipping free (no money) pocket carrier for the users who have bought a P4, cuz this one has a lanyard.
Is yhere any truth behind, should i stress lmn support?
maybe the uncoded ones will be collectors items in the future, being the first ones made :dunno:
Since the date coded ones are the latest ones, you're going to need to make sure you have an undated P2 and P4 before they're all gone to new owners. :whistle:
My P4 has no date codes, and I'm probably going to wait a while before I get a second one, first of all to make sure it's one with date codes and second because they are quite expensive over here...Yeah, I am feeling the money-hurt after buying three Ps. Yeah, they're cheaper here, but when I start to add them up. :facepalm:
And that's also the reason why I probably won't go for the P2 (probably being an important word in that sentence ::)).
Hello there, i have ordered a P4 and can't wait to get it. Today or tommorow.
Anyway... I heard that LMN will/is shipping free (no money) pocket carrier for the users who have bought a P4, cuz this one has a lanyard.
Is yhere any truth behind, should i stress lmn support?
I will get that out in the mail to you.
Janel Malcomson
Leatherman Tool Group
Consumer Support SpeSmurfpillst
5226 NE 152nd Place
Portland, OR 97230
800-847-8665 X484
503-408-5484-direct line
I emailed LM about a pocket clip and got this back:
Dilemma, nay, quandary... user or collection? I don't actually collect as such...Use, because that's what (multi)tools are for. :pok:
Wow nwoody that is amazing service,
Leatherman gets too much crap from people, I am consistently impressed with them.
Congrats, D_T! :woohoo:
I'm in for a challenge at some point. :cheers:
Good luck on the clip acquisitions, D_T and T-G! :ahhh
I emailed info at leatherman today, with my order number. They replied a few hours later saying their will ship me a belt clip.
The little retaining tab inside broke off.
Not sure how the hell that happens!
(https://i.imgur.com/KzY10aP.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AisBAB1.jpg)
That little double bend in the sheet metal might be a weak point. Especially if they formed the tab using two sheet metal operations and not a single pressing. Just the same as bending a paperclip back and forth.
My CAD model isn't perfectly accurate, but it looks like they put the first bend in to move the around the can opener. Than they put in a second bend to match the angle on the pliers.
If you close the tool with the pliers open, these little tabs close them for you, but it should not be enough force to break that tab, unless it was already cracked.
You can see a line in the center of the broken half, it looks like it may have been cracked.
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Thats the piece where the date stamp is on GLBM's newer sample :think:Excellent thought. :salute:
A quick question, if it's cool. Is regular petroleum based gun oil immediately an issue for the elastomer cushions?
I had disassembled both of my P4 tools to make a swap of the handle scale only(with no date code) to the unused P4 that had a date code. Which meant an entire disassembly of one handle to swap the tools and swapping the other handle over to the other pliers head(decided I liked the first pliershead better for the collection P4). OK. The collection P4 does not do what I am about to describe. But, my user P4, after a day or so of use, has developed a slight "squeak" in one of the handles when opening/closing. I traced the noise the pivot where the elastomer cushion is at. Only one side does it, but I am not sure if I damaged it, or if it is the oil I used. It didn't occur to me when I oiled it after reassembly that I used petroleum based oil, since I usually use silicone based oil, but was out.
The P4(and P2) are somewhat troublesome to take apart, so I thought it might be a good idea to ask first. Well, not so much as troublesome to disassemble/reassemble, but getting the pivot tightness perfect(which took me about half an hour).
Should I wait and see if the "squeak" goes away, or do I need to take the pliers off, clean out all of the oil and dry the cushions, then apply some sort of rubber-safe grease?
Any insight would be much appreciated. :salute:
Lube them so the squeak goes away, this is what we did in the automotive industry.
Regarding Bit adapter adn Tshank
From my point of view , the structure of the tool is not strong enough, although a carve-out in the pliers head can support the strength and provide the support for a bit adapter.
T-shank can be mounted yet it would sit without a tool, you would have to open it and mount the file or saw and than use it, which is somehow against the philosophy of the free(dom) P series.
Hi everyoneVery nice, Striker! :like:
Just received a leatherman free p2 from leatherman australia for $290 aud or $202 usd, thats what they cost here.
First impressions are good. Nice solid lockup on all tools. Its a nice size thickness wise. It's kind of a skeletool with scissors, which is exactly what i was hoping for.
Here is a few thickness comparisons between some modern leatherman tools i have on hand.
First the new shiny itself
(https://i.imgur.com/1hmN4Pu.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/X08t9jk.jpg?1)
This is a skeletool
(https://i.imgur.com/wBmWgqw.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y31QcjF.jpg?1)
This one is a rebar
(https://i.imgur.com/cWYi67j.jpg?1)
This one is a wave
(https://i.imgur.com/qmJ3dOu.jpg?1)
This is a OHT
(https://i.imgur.com/vvLaEbE.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/F1lCMuF.jpg?2)
Thanks :)
GLBMThanks, Blackbeard! :cheers:
https://www.leatherman.com/CustomerService-Maintenance.html (https://www.leatherman.com/CustomerService-Maintenance.html)
I didnt see any info on what the material is in the P4 pivot but saw this page, not sure it will help, maybe there will be a PDF in the future that gives material specs
Lube them so the squeak goes away, this is what we did in the automotive industry.Thanks, Raoul! :cheers:
Regarding Bit adapter adn Tshank
From my point of view , the structure of the tool is not strong enough, although a carve-out in the pliers head can support the strength and provide the support for a bit adapter.
T-shank can be mounted yet it would sit without a tool, you would have to open it and mount the file or saw and than use it, which is somehow against the philosophy of the free(dom) P series.
Without knowing what they're made of, it's hard to say, but the sensible thing would be to have used an resistant grade. Assuming it's a good industrial grade O ring rubber, that same material can be found sealing hydraulic powerpacks, neat cutting oil delivery systems, auto lube systems, and many other industrial applications where they're subject to load, movement, and petroleum based products. They need to have done something very stupid for this to degrade with gun oil.Thank you very much, AW! :cheers:
If it squeaks, add more lube. If it still squeaks, take it apart and give it a good clean and inspect.
Spending my first day with the p4, my second thought is it’s quite heavy. Don’t have a scale to see the difference between the p4 and a wave + so not sure but seems a bit lighter then the wave.The P4 weighs about .3oz more than the Wave+. So the weight difference is negligible. :tu:
Anyway I wanted to share my findings regarding bit the bit adapter. I have a range of tools Gerber and SOG some with bit set. I found the sog bitset the most useable with the tool. The adapter sits on the top of the Phillips firm enough to use any standard bits. The only drawback I found is the adapter end goes to the Phillips doesn’t have a magnet so can fall off easier.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qB12sCp7/C4198855-6-E32-4562-8632-1-F290602-D45-D.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/23Bqmybp)
(https://i.postimg.cc/mkkzX8Tg/C4193-C4-F-D8-FA-40-BA-A622-E1-C34-AEAB405.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/YLcCjN45)
(https://i.postimg.cc/xCxqzMLD/789-CAEF5-0-ACB-4-FF8-9-F94-6416-F96-C240-E.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/zbhJmLd0)
(https://i.postimg.cc/pTFXp4V8/4-F58-AF6-C-4-AF0-4-F46-BD84-18831-A782-D64.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/DJ7KNCXy)
On the last image there is a similar adapter (Gerber) which potentially would be better but I don’t have tools to make the hole wider to fit the Phillips driver.
I also seen a YouTube video about a similar concept where a guy was using a wera adapter for the bits. If someone interested the video can be find online.
I hope the above would help someone who interested to extend the possibility of this tool...
So, after gettin inside the Free and using it intensly i have to say the following:I whole-heartedly agree with all, but the last point. :iagree:
-Inteligent platform, with real easy axx of the tools with one hand
-not quite as hardcore as other LMNs, Wave Surge, Rebar and ST300 are my points of refference
-tools are great EDC, yet i would have skipped a blade(serrated one) to have a larger file and some sort of bit holder/adapter
-Leatherman has skipped some washers/spacers, wich would make the tools more easy to deploy. And for that i am real pissed off
Got an e-mail from Leatherman U.S.A. today ...Show contentThey are sending me a pocketclip for my Free P4 as a courtesy, how cool is that :sa:.THANK YOU LEATHERMAN U.S.A. :2tu:
P.S.: Still no answer from Leatherman Belgium to my question from a couple of weeks ago, "if they could tell me when the Free P4 would be available here, and if they knew how much it would cost ... " ::)
That would be great GLBM if you could show usYeah man. I'll take some pics or video this evening if I remember. :cheers:
how to take the magnets out and put them back :popcorn:
I have been told by Support that only Canada and USA will receive the pocket clip. No pocket clip for the Land of Dracula :(Very cool. :cheers:
Great achievment GBLM, i envy you, honestly i wish i'll be able to build a multitool for my kids based on their requierments (when they are bigger).
Yet, everyone who made a sandwich and used a screwdriver will be able to reassemble it.
While it was dissasembled and i analyzed the behaviour, an extra washer for the main 4 tools will make a big difference in their ease of deployment, and i have tightened the tool much more than it was delivered by LMN, well... I guess it was about an extra quarter.
Can I ask did you buy yours from Leatherman direct or a retailer?
:woohoo: For LM customer support.
Hmm, i'm going to stress Leatherman again, about that pocket clip.Good video, Raoul! :like:
This is my experience regardin reassembly.
https://youtu.be/kvCyzheXMZg
What's the centre-to-centre distance between the plier pivots? I am interested to see how it compares with other tools.Will post that in a bit. :)
It looks to be about 18mm on my Surge.
@gerleatherberman good to know, seems a little to much of a hassle tough.Thanks, man! :cheers:
I wonder why LMN did not put some extra washers.
On one side they did, altough one is missing, and on the other side they didn't put any.
Curtesy of SteveC, i altered the pic to stress the missing washers which would make the opening much smoother.
What's the centre-to-centre distance between the plier pivots? I am interested to see how it compares with other tools.(http://i.imgur.com/NAtfIHR.jpg)
It looks to be about 18mm on my Surge.
I pushed extremely hard on all of the tabs in my Ps and none of them broke and barely flexed. I think this is not going to be a common problem. The 420HC they used for the handles on the Ps is quite strong, even at the 'weak' areas. :dunno:
Just checked on mine, next to no give on the tabs (although undated). May have been just a production fluke on that P2...Very good. :like:
(https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=44823.0;attach=433074)
Hey good news TG!
LM Belgium never replied to my exact same question about the LE PST...
Nothing at all...
I think the LM branch here just sips coffee all day on the profits of the hard working folks in the USA.
I think we should take over ... :viking:I think we'd rock at our job 8)
(http://i.imgur.com/NAtfIHR.jpg)Thanks for measuring that GLBM. :cheers:
After a couple of days of light use:Great write up, Powernoodle! Thank you for taking the time to do that. :salute:
Pros:
- well constructed
- main blade has a surprisingly solid, beefy feel
- pocket clip and nice sheath
- magnet and free-swinging handles
- plain edge blade, serrated blade, saw and scissors seem of good quality
- replaceable cutters, nice plier head
- long shank on phillips
- looks pretty nice
- smooth on the hand when using the pliers
- outside-opening tools. Finally.
Cons:
- price; repeat this 32 times
- the deployment of the exterior tools seems very gimmicky and unnatural to me. Whether pushing the thumb forward, sideways or toward the palm, it is difficult to deploy the tools and it hurts the thumb. Its impossible to deploy the phillips driver (and whatever that thing is next to it) except by pushing the thumb forward, and even then it is pretty difficult. Its not a deal-breaker, but its close.
- what is that thing next to the phillips? Flat driver? Pry bar? Package opener? Where the heck is the "package opener"?
- no real 3D phillips
- the ruler has to be a prank; you can hear Timmy giggling if you try hard
- the file is teeny weeny, but at least its sharp and well-made
I would like a spring-loaded plier head, but this probably would reduce the strength of the head.
Until I received this, I thought that each tool - like the 2D phillips - was secured with a magnet. I was wrong, but that's on me. The two halves of the tool are secured with magnets.
I knew what I was getting into when I bought this, so no complaints. The price and the tool deployment turn me off, but I had to have one just to satisfy my MT urge. This MT seems to do every okay, and I'm going to carry it for the foreseeable future just to get a better feel for it. I can work my way past the gimmicky tool deployment. But I would not recommend this to anyone because of the exorbitant price and unnatural tool deployment, instead advocating the Wave, Rebar, Spirit, etc. at 50 - 70% of the cost.
(https://i.imgur.com/rV6VCOT.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3LKXCJo.jpg)
Thanks for measuring that GLBM. :cheers:You're quite welcome, Syncop8r! :cheers:
I'm surprised though, it always looked to me as if it is much further on the Free than on other models. Perhaps it is just that the handles are thinner. :think:
Hi everyone
Just received a leatherman free p2 from leatherman australia for $290 aud or $202 usd, thats what they cost here.
First impressions are good. Nice solid lockup on all tools. Its a nice size thickness wise. It's kind of a skeletool with scissors, which is exactly what i was hoping for.
Here is a few thickness comparisons between some modern leatherman tools i have on hand.
First the new shiny itself
(https://i.imgur.com/1hmN4Pu.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/X08t9jk.jpg?1)
This is a skeletool
(https://i.imgur.com/wBmWgqw.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y31QcjF.jpg?1)
This one is a rebar
(https://i.imgur.com/cWYi67j.jpg?1)
This one is a wave
(https://i.imgur.com/qmJ3dOu.jpg?1)
This is a OHT
(https://i.imgur.com/vvLaEbE.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/F1lCMuF.jpg?2)
Thanks :)
...By the way 2 thick implements are same thikness as the 4, 1thick implement has thickness of 2 slimmer ones. Serated and main blade same thickness.Hmmm... I've looked at mine and it would seem to me (to be confimed by measurement) that the implements in the block of 4 are not of equal thickness... the outermost ones are thicker than the central ones. Also on one handle there is a slight asymmetry which is not present on the other handle, as the blades (saw, PE, SE) and scissors are not of equal thickness either. But if you kept the original order on re-assembly that should not make any difference, I suspect. I must admit I am a bit hesitant to take it apart just for fun - there are many parts on this thing, more than I am used to on Waves and Rebars.
Interestingly one pivot is sligthly longer than the other.
Well, sorry for beeing such a crybaby, i fell you guys understand better.
Pliers closing was user problem(fatigue and expectations) , this morning i was able to close it fine.
Saw side is fine, no problems there.
Scissor side... WIP, i have to find the right arrangement so scissors dont touch pliers.
Regarding friction... I need to find a better lube.
I checked the videos i made and tried to remeber every impression... And... Every third consecutive time i tried to open main blade or saw it got somehow stuck and i gelped with the middle finger. Scissor and serrated i opened directly with middle finger and did not observed any issue, altough i helped with the thumb.
The grey sheath :facepalm::rofl:
I've found it fits nicely into the "old style" leather Charge sheath.Thanks for the info, T-G! :cheers:
I'm talking about these ones:
(https://i.imgur.com/TvYHiH5.jpg)
hello, remeber me:)
Short history: i took the tool apart, reassembled it with wave implements washers on the Saw, main Blade and Scissor.
Which made the tools open easier with one hand(thumb)
This because I was not happy with the way the tools opened and the saw and scissor (while opening) touched the pliers. Scissor was quite close to pliers head in closed position.
All Ok, except the fact that the scissor touched the pliers while closed, and ...long story short i disassembled and reassembled the tool numerous times bumping in others issues while not being able to fix the touching of the pliers by the scissor, plus, the opening with one hand(thumb) became more and more difficult and also the handles would not close easy(they stuck, and i needed some force to close them)
What have i learned/discovered:
- The scales have to be parallel to each other
- Pivots must enter the scales, on pliers side they enter almost completely yet on the implements side pivot enters just a bit
- Pliers pivot screw must not touch the sandwich of scales, half moons, pliers, scales. A 0.1mm tolerance is needed so handles close easy . This space was observed from the box yet attributed to poor manufacturing( my error). This helps the parallelism of scales.
- Saw side has 3 washers, this to compensate slimness of the saw, it also helps regarding to smoothness of opening.
YET- DO NOT EXPECT SMOOTHNESS ON OPENING THE TOOLS WHILE EVERYTHING IS CLEAN & DEGREASED, my main fault
-opening of the main tools is ODD, do not expect Wave or OHT easyness.
Actually, the FREE P is not advertised as one hand opening tool.
-extra Washers do help, yet geometry of the tool does not allow you to add extra washers, tinkering is needed, or a longer rear and front pivot and thicker front half moons.
- a good Lube is desired for the Free P, don't waste time with washers like a did.
Conclusion, i manufactured some washers from Zytel ( i had a handel from a Blast)
to be larger and to be put on the scales to help keep parralelism
i have moved an inner washer to the main blade and added a zytel washer to the saw.
also i moved scissor on saw side.
Now both my handles have same thickness, main blade and saw can be opened ( somehow) smoother with one thumb.
Scissor still touches the pliers head:(
and i've dicovered that the flex of a handel comes from the bushing and/or the entire sanwich cumulated tolerances ( 2 pivots, scales and tools etc). This reduces or amplifies the scissor touch and or implements movement referrenced to the pliers head.
From my view, thicker pivots are needed on the implements side, and spacers to reduce friction.
Info:
On the scales, washer is standard, 3.2mm inner diameter, 0.5mm thick and 7mm wide
On the saw side, there are 3 washers, thinner and slightly larger than standard ones. 2 come inside , next to the spring, and one between the spring and serrated blade.
PS: the moment i renounced to open the Free P4 like a Wave/Surge OHT all my nerves were gone.
It is a great Plier opening tool, altough when rotation is applied it's not so fun, really OK to open main tools with both hands( one holding the tool) and the other hand WITH the finger nail to have it open.
Middle implenets are real smart to be opened with one Hand
I'm kinda disspointed, i had other expectations(mainly in ergonomy and ease of use), maybe too high for a 175USD multitool
Wave gen 1 is still my favorite, followed by Surge( who is my first love and first LMN) who became too big and heavy for my daily needs.
I WISH FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART THAT LMN DOES READ-RECEIVE OUR FEEDBACK, in order to have the Free P EVOLVE to something even better. my2cents
I played with all the otheR LMNs i have...
To be objective on the Free P4 (In extension to P2)
-Pliers opening closing is main feature,great, we had to sacrifice overall tool robustness (handle made of 2 parts not one U shape pressed) and reduce rotation force (yet this is happening in a small amount of scenarios). Though plier and Tools used as plier seems to be able to do the same job as any other LMN
-from 2 outside one hand opening tools we have now 4, indeed harder and annoying to open than the 2 on the Wave yet you can open them all
-all implements able to open with one hand, Second to main feature, great..yet implements form and selection can be improved but this is subjective already (Bit holder)
-Toughness, overall robustness and opening of the main tools can be improved, depends if LMN wants it and offcourse if it is desired by the consumers
I have a hunch that the competition is learning and sooner or later , the'll come with something better ...it's the way of life evolving, not staying in the same place
PS: From PR point of view, great marketing and Hype campaign. I'm sorry that i bit the bait , yet now i know better what i desire and what i truly need ( i do use them tools, not keep them on a shelf( no offense to collectors or owners who like to admire them, we're all different and that is good, the world would be such a boring place otherwise)
+1 :iagree:
Raoul,
Your efforts to guide the community to modding ideas are much appreciated. Fortunately I have found the stock configuration to be suitable to moderate needs. I've never been hit with an overwhelming need to mod my tools(though I have a few tools I modded for fun). As far as the possibility of improvements, I can find many for any tool for sure, but the idea of objectivity excludes the modding aspect when looked at through the lens of regular users.
Instead of trying to adjust the P4 I've been carrying to be more suited to my needs, I try to adjust my needs to the tool itself. And, that being the case, I am still holding firm that the P4 series are fantastic fun to play with and work very well for most user's needs. But, as far as pure LM user tools go, the Wave/Charge still wins. I'm glad that LM didn't just change up the Wave/Charge again(like the plus versions) and built something for the fidget fun tool market. :)
I am one of those people that does feel the overwhelming need to modify my tools, but I really appreciate what LM was trying to do. As long as they keep the surge,st300, and charge/wave as real tools with real implements I'm cool with having two different types of tools. What I look for in a tool is as few substitutes as possible. The P series just has too many for my liking.Fantastic points, Happy G! :iagree:
Honestly if they hadn't trash talked the wave and made it out to be better (which it def isn't), I would have been a lot more excited about the novelty of this tool.
Fantastic points, Happy G! :iagree:
Indeed, LM really screwed up with throwing the Wave under the metaphorical bus. :facepalm:
Why couldn't they have compared it to the SOG PowerAccess, Gerber Truss, Victorinox Spirit, etc. in the promotions? That seems to be the market they intended to go after with the P2/P4. And even I, not being a marketing expert, could make a case for the P2/P4 against those tools.
High-end knife makers produce multi-hundred knives all of the time that have competition at 1/4 of the price(same blade steels, handle material, fit & finish, etc). Leatherman was unwise to compete within their own production.
As much as I lament the Gerber sales tactics, at least they go after their actual competition(CD vs. OHT for example).
Nobody is going to look at my grey sheath, the way it looks now, and think "he has the best MT out there." :rofl:
(https://i.imgur.com/UlNa9Ex.jpg?1)
For those who think the spring force is too high: You could modify the tool to use only one spring arm. The spring would have to be moved to the center of the tool to ensure even force on it.
The springs are 0.030" (0.75mm) thick. You could alter the stack to use just one washer (https://www.mcmaster.com/94773a737), or two thinner washers (https://www.mcmaster.com/91124a116) to replace the missing spring.
I may try this out myself as I have some other parts to order from McMaster.
(https://i.imgur.com/UlNa9Ex.jpg?1)
For those who think the spring force is too high: You could modify the tool to use only one spring arm. The spring would have to be moved to the center of the tool to ensure even force on it.
The springs are 0.030" (0.75mm) thick. You could alter the stack to use just one washer (https://www.mcmaster.com/94773a737), or two thinner washers (https://www.mcmaster.com/91124a116) to replace the missing spring.
I may try this out myself as I have some other parts to order from McMaster.
As l was traveling to the US from Australia, l decided to buy the new Free P4 online from LM before l left home in order to give myself plenty of time for delivery.Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and experience with your P4, George! :cheers:
A day or so after l arrived l got an email asking me to contact the Sales team. Basically they needed a room number before they would ship it to my hotel. l paid for the expedited shipping and in the end they got it to me Alabama in about 24 hours which l thought was very impressive.
Obviously l haven't given it any real use but my first impressions are that l think l'm going to like it.
Overall l rate the concept, design and quality as a 9.5 out of 10.
However overall the tool selection is not ideal for my needs and l would score it 8/10.
My main issue is the lack of a problem file. As others have suggested they should off a version wigh a full length diamond file instead of the poor serrated blade. A compromise could have been to at least have one surface diamond coated on the current file
A secondary complaint is the phillips screwdriver.
Cheers
George
I havent been around here for a while and really stopped by to see what people were saying about the Free series. I'm a bit surprised that alot of members here seem to like it? i just cant get on board with the tool selection, the metal filing attracting magnets and the locking tabs sticking out on the handle. i wear a Surge on my side 50hrs a week so i may be a bit jaded...i'm always comparing other tools to it, and they all fall short for my needs. maybe if they had one with replaceable bits and/or file/saw socket i would think differently, but if feel like the Free series are far from the best they have made like they are advertised.
I have made bit adapters to fit my Wingman, Vic combo tool and straight screwdriver. They are easy and cheap to make. I am getting my P-2 tomorrow. I will check it out and see if they will work on it.Thanks for posting about this, Mike! :cheers:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190522/d27566477f06f5805cc3fb1036cf31c6.jpg)
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Know what bothers me the most? I want the P4 but can't believe that they chose to put a lanyard ring on the heavier tool...how does that make any sense? Shouldn't the p2 have the lanyard or each of them have both?
I thought Leatherman changed this, I believe they sell the P4 with the pocket clip now on their site.
And if you get one with the lanyard ring, you can contact them and they'll send you a pocket clip (not to all countries apparently, but I guess being in the U.S. you shouldn't have any problems). I'm still waiting for mine ...
Hi All,
I kind of follow this topic since the tool is out and agree but also disagree with some comments. Anyway I could not hold myself back longer and managed to put my itching hand on a P4. :multi:
First impression is as others said it’s a good tool. But definitely didn’t worth the asking price, not in the UK anyway.
I’m missing the changeable bits, the file looks short but quite aggressive even feeling it with my hand. The most useless tool on it the ruler. My model has a bit of a stiff pliers jaws pivot. Not sure if that’s the same with others I hope it would brake in soon. Time would tell how can this serve as an edc I guess.
I received my replacement P2, and honestly, I am still happy with the multi tool.
I gave the tool a solid going over with a dry Teflon spray and everything is like butter now. Smooth and fluid.
My only real issue(s) is the play in the handles and the loose feeling when closed. By loose, the amount of travel the pliers have inside the folded handle. You can slide the closed halves up and down quite a ways and get a clacking sound from the pliers hitting the internal stops.
I was seriously thinking about the P4 but aside from a saw, there wasn’t enough to justify the increase in size and weight.
The P2 feels a little more “elegant” and balanced to me.
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Thanks! :tu: The size difference is the most obvious thing. The only tool I find to be too short on the OHT is the saw, short drivers etc I can cope with. I'm surprised the P4's saw is nearly as short.:cheers:
I felt a comparison would be interesting since they are both all outside/one-handed opening multitools.
Contacted Leatherman USA about the missing pocket clip for my P4.
Received it today
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2hga6qc.jpg)
Kind of funny they sent a bit for a tool that doesn’t have a bit driver.I think they were very kind, as I asked if they could provide me a wrench to install the pocket clip
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Kind of funny they sent a bit for a tool that doesn’t have a bit driver.It is funny, because you cannot use the tool you're putting the clip on, to put the clip on it. :pok: :D
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Agreed. Question: did you buy the P4 via the LM USA web site?No, the tool was purchased in a shop here in Italy
It is funny, because you cannot use the tool you're putting the clip on, to put the clip on it. :pok: :D
I'm always happy to have spare bits.
Sorry. Couldn't help myself. I'm kidding of course. :cheers:
No, the tool was purchased in a shop here in ItalyPlease tell me where
Got an envelope from Portland Oregon today :mail:.
(https://i.imgur.com/q8td9bZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/K7cVJo4.jpg)
Guess the bit is part of the package, since I didn't ask for it. But I do think it's nice they send it along, not everyone is like us, with a collection of tools and the right tools to maintain them, I mean.
Thank you Leatherman U. S. A., it's nice to get a taste of that magnificent service we read about from all our American fellow MTO members, thank you :hatsoff:.
Got an envelope from Portland Oregon today :mail:.:like:
(https://i.imgur.com/q8td9bZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/K7cVJo4.jpg)
Guess the bit is part of the package, since I didn't ask for it. But I do think it's nice they send it along, not everyone is like us, with a collection of tools and the right tools to maintain them, I mean.
Thank you Leatherman U. S. A., it's nice to get a taste of that magnificent service we read about from all our American fellow MTO members, thank you :hatsoff:.
Nice. I also contacted them about a clip. I hope they sent it. I never got a reply.I hope they sent one. I got a reply within a few minutes of emailing them, with them asking for my address. :)
Time to remind them, my related mail must have gone missing.
Good Day!
I have made the request for the pocket clip to be sent out to you as a courtesy. You should be receiving that in the mail within the next 2 weeks.
Thanks for contacting Leatherman Tool Group and have a great day!
Xxxxx Yyyyyyyyyyy
Leatherman Tool Group
Consumer Support SpeSmurfpillst
Got an envelope from Portland Oregon today :mail:.
(https://i.imgur.com/q8td9bZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/K7cVJo4.jpg)
Guess the bit is part of the package, since I didn't ask for it. But I do think it's nice they send it along, not everyone is like us, with a collection of tools and the right tools to maintain them, I mean.
Thank you Leatherman U. S. A., it's nice to get a taste of that magnificent service we read about from all our American fellow MTO members, thank you :hatsoff:.
Great comparison post with the OHT and the P, glbm :like::cheers:
Great job LM with all of those clips as well :o :like:
Welcome and congrats on the P4, jorritvS! Thank you for sharing! :cheers:
...
I didn't grind anything off for it to fit. I also wouldn't do that on a tool this expensive. It just fitted without any modification necessary. That is also why I like it and why I did share it.Thanks for clarifying! :cheers:
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I think someone else had a P with little or no loctite on the screws? Sam I think? :think:
The P4 I use didn't have much, but I did need to heat it up to turn more freely, as there was a little on each screw thread.
I wonder if the assembly person just didn't bother using much, if any, loctite on Friday afternoon before close? :rofl:
That happens sometimes to other LM models too.
It can go away after some time of use, however, I've read reports where it didn't seem to.
It can be that the pivot is slightly oval in shape (inside) which could introduce such behavior :dunno:
After another week of use, today i observed an issue.This helped me immensely.
I have used the pliers and i have applied a small amount of force on the handles to hold something fermly( i had to unscrew an M10 bolt and i hold the nut with the pliers).
Interestingly, the pliers have become stiff, immediately i felt them to be too stiff to my likening and to what i have been used.
I applied some oil and opened and closed the pliers several times. This is affecting the easyness of closing the tool.
When it became slightly easy for the pliers to be opened, after several hundreds closing and opening, i squeezed the handles again, nothing in the jaws of the pliers, and again it became stiff.
WTF, something is not OK in the area of the Pliers PIVOT
I just tried the awl on my leather belt. I was a bit skeptical but it surprisingly punched right through it.
Strange. On my P4 (no date stamp) the scissors are those in your P2 pic side. Seems they have modified the scissors on newer runs. Hang on to that P2, it might become rare :D
GLBM, that looks good.Thank you, JonesE! :cheers:
JonesE
Good job glbm, let us know if this works better for your pants :tu:Thank you and will do, SirVic! :cheers:
One question as I’m about to be a P4 Owner too,
Whats the best way to carry this tool?? , In the Nylon Sheath that comes whit the Tool or in the „Rulerpocket“ ??
I can’t carry it like my Signal: horizontal clipped in the Beltloop whyle the Carabiner is also clipped in the near beltloop because it’s dosnt have a carabiner..
Is the Blade automatically locked??
Of is the Clip thought enough to clip the Tool on the Belt??
https://youtu.be/RrU_kSBGWFc
This guy makes 4mm bit drivers for the free
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I had the same, and also Gearbltm.
What i found and G confirmed, if you use the blunt wire cutter from the back of the pivot, to excert some pressure there, you'll be able to loosen the pliers to what it used to br. I have no explanation on why this happens, makes no logic on a round pivot
Leatherman Germany was pretty fast, yesterday ordered, today surprisingly on my Desk..Great photos! Maybe it will close after you get the hang of doing it. One of those practice makes perfect thing. :tu:
I think I put in on my Belt, ..
Makes a pretty good impression so far, I have to practice a bit whit this one hand mechanism,
The Pliers are pretty easy to open whit one hand, but I can’t close it whit one hand.. pix will follow..
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/420e6bffa76131a000977e9383095da4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/6a7a5fc04a31134debe1c18d390074c8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/05b225205f7dcd0ee56fcfa6f4750168.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/3371d3c5fb6dffdfb365215000787d43.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/3cb11fdbc7a085ae6e3d59205aebf63f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190828/78822e363db529d97d5a875a9496dc61.jpg)
Nice ones matzesu and Monrogue :like: :tu::iagree:
Well I treated myself and now have a P4 on the way :)
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Great choice buddy :2tu:.
I really like my P4 (the fact that I bought a second one as backup for the collection speaks for itself, right?).
I've been using it as my EDC tool since April, and it handled everything I threw at it. I admit that I'm not a heavy user, but still...
The Free had a rough start when it was released, but despite the negativity, it's a good tool. If I was a heavy user I would probably prefer a Wave or Charge (and the Surge of I was an insane heavy user ;)). But for my needs, the Free is more than capable enough.
Anyway, you know we expect pics when your P4 arrives, right? :pok:
Ok just arrived. As I expected, I like it just as much as my P2 :). I’m curious though, why the serrated blade’s opening doesn’t stick out past the handle like the plain blade. Maybe to show one as the “main” blade? It would look a little better if both blades were flush with the handle edge. Also the chisel tip of the serrated is more rounded at the very top of the blade. Not sure if that’s the norm, but no big deal anyway.I like that you can access the tools without having to open the whole thing! Checked them out at Dicks Sporting store but all the MT’s are locked up and no one was around to help so I left without handling one! :facepalm:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/8b3124b27efb641b639bda4c527bd723.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/f4fde5007da76c6d91599d52812f4bad.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/94bf6a94458df45df1f2ba5a90c98cdd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/834f1a3071477ce7af389a5d420bd324.jpg)
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I know they now ship the Free P4 with the pocket clip, but I am wondering if the original lanyard hole comes in the box as well?That would be a gift card well spent! :cheers:
I have a $100 LL Bean gift card and they just put the Free series online and I’m likely to burn my gift card to subsidize the cost, but wanted insight on the lanyard hole option first.
Thanks! :cheers:
The P series does now have a pocket clip.
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I know they now ship the Free P4 with the pocket clip, but I am wondering if the original lanyard hole comes in the box as well?
I have a $100 LL Bean gift card and they just put the Free series online and I’m likely to burn my gift card to subsidize the cost, but wanted insight on the lanyard hole option first.
Thanks! :cheers:
I meant a usage comparison.You know that there is a OHT 30 day challenge planned for November? ,your views and experience would be most welcome. It is list under BONECRUSHER. See ya there Nov 1.
I like the OHT.... :cry:
Lucky you... the REI and Dick's I checked personally yesterday (just to eliminate stocking error related false negatives) all only had P2s, T models and the 'legacy' items in-store. Bummer. Well, as I said, a first world problem :DIf visiting state side, Lowe’s started stocking the Free series as well as Sportman’s Warehouse.
Thanks Loopcutter, I'll keep it in mind for next time - I've left the States and ordered one from home already :D:like:
:cheers:
:mail:Nice photo! :tu:
Date stamped 05/19. Shapeways order for ZapWizard's bit driver is out, but it's not due to arrive until late November. Oh well...
Ok so has anyone tried to use the Leatherman Removable Bit Driver on the Free?
Hmmm... doesn't fit. Which is why I want a bit driver inside.
Welcome to the club :tu:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/92adfc6871ece761b9085f298a8cf134.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/7972d066a2d1d5921af35881043ed6e5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/b91d74c2859d7ad0a7308367962dc66c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/757be8ece0020c38a1e9064b502742fb.jpg)
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I've noted some similarities between the P4's package opener and the Swisstool Spirit's chisel thing. Once ZapWizard's bit driver arrives I might copy some of the Spirit features on the package opener, since that won't have to double as a medium flat screwdriver anymore :D:like: :cheers:
I made mine out of a 1/4 adapter I put a magnet in it and bedded it with J B Weld so it stays on by itself. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191102/c0e0e3ec137ee7d4561bdc01347d6f13.jpg)Nice work around! :tu:
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Here is a pic of the inside of the adapterI like your solution :tu:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191102/0369b3b719af8a7e5fb4f84713137e2f.jpg)
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I made mine out of a 1/4 adapter I put a magnet in it and bedded it with J B Weld so it stays on by itself. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191102/c0e0e3ec137ee7d4561bdc01347d6f13.jpg)
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So how does this work? I send you my address and you send one to me?
I haven't seen a Free P4 in person. The frame of the Free P4 looks like it is fairly symmetrical. Is it symmetrical enough to swap the individual tools around to make a version for left handers?
The smooth knife blade and the scissors could be swapped for each other to make the main knife blade open with the left hand. The serrated blade is already setup for left handed opening.Nice switch :like:
Edit: I am a righty so the left handed opening serrated blade bothered me so I swapped it to the saw position and reassembled it just now. Works fine. :woohoo:
:whistle:Vice one :like: :cheers:
Been bothering me all week. Something did not feel right about the hand-feel and balance of the Free P4. Especially compared to the Wave. The P4 in plier position is wanting to slip dow and out of my grip. Opening and closing the plier head feels insecure and awkward. The Wave feels balanced, and does not tend to slip. The Wave can be manipulated without losing position in my hand.:iagree:
I could just squeeze harder when using the P4. An answer if sorts. It contrasts with the balanced hand-feel of the Wave. Perhaps I will get used to the differences, I don't know.
What is the general consensus regarding the serrated blade tip shape on the P4? ???
I understand LM designed it that way so the blade would be locked into the handles when the pliers are used, but does the chisel tip shape serve any practical purpose otherwise? I'm not really liking it. I'm on the fence about just grinding an angled sheep's foot profile on the end of the blade to make it more useful. The spring tension on the lock release seems to keep the blade in place enough by itself for me.
There is a lot of problems out there with the pliers, I dont understand why Leatherman keeps sending out those tools all over the world:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,84134.0.html (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,84134.0.html)
@ Dutch_Tooler, is that the standard tool adapter or the universal?
Look like you also have the large bit adapter from ZapWizard installed. Very cool!
I forget, does the Removable Bit Driver work on a P2/P4? :think:
Wow. After reading this whole thread, I am sort of happy I haven't bought a P4 yet. Trying to justify the almost $200 dollar Canadian price tag...and this thread did that concept no good.With the price being $200 Canadian I can't blame you but I would still think about it if you can get it for less since it really is a great tool.
The Free P4 is my favorite multitool. I enjoy using it, chiefly due to its ease of deployment. My P4 pliers don't have the problem that some other have reported and I am sympathetic with those owners who expected better QC. However, I think much of the other criticism about the P4 is undeserved.It deserves most of it. Let me know when you master the one hand tool opening, get used to the palm hotspots on the handle ends and find a use for a 1” rule or file. It does not have many fans on this forum. >:(
It deserves most of it. Let me know when you master the one hand tool opening, get used to the palm hotspots on the handle ends and find a use for a 1” rule or file. It does not have many fans on this forum. >:(You may be one if the few who has that many grievances with the tool actually. One hand tool opening is quite easy and did not really take much if any time to get the hang of. Palm hotspots arent a thing, it is just as comfortable as nearly any other leatherman I've used. Holding it differently? I'll give you the ruler is quite laughable but the flat head on that tool works well. The file is small especially in comparison to other Multitools (except maybe the wingman?) But is aggressive and works well when need something quick. I'm sorry you dont feel the same. I feel from an open mind. It is a great tool for what it is and quick, one handed use of everything.
It deserves most of it. Let me know when you master the one hand tool opening, get used to the palm hotspots on the handle ends and find a use for a 1” rule or file. It does not have many fans on this forum. >:(
It deserves most of it. Let me know when you master the one hand tool opening, get used to the palm hotspots on the handle ends and find a use for a 1” rule or file. It does not have many fans on this forum. >:(
I was thinking about the ruler.. It's small and redicoulous if you compare it to a "normal" ruler.. But what's the intended purpose? I don't have any of the free tools but I saw some commercials for it when advertising it for when doing mechanical stuff and only have one hand free to operate the tool and if that's the case isn't the ruler long enough to measure a bolt or spacing between stuff in tight areas, or to get a general feel for how big nut you need or something along those lines?Good point and way of looking at it. I hadn't really considered it that way but in that case the ruler is useful for these types of tasks. After all, multitools really are not meant to take the place of full size, dedicated tools.
And if so, it's a fairly good size?
[It's not failure if you learn something from it]
I finally got to handle a P2 at a local sports store. I have to say that I was not impressed at all with it.Its interesting cause I've heard more negative from the P2 than the P4. Love my P4 for my uses. Has come in handier for quick tasks than my Charge.
I finally got to handle a P2 at a local sports store. I have to say that I was not impressed at all with it.
its sad when I can find them right now for $80 and still not interested...all they had to do...all they had to do! Was get independent feedback. No way they handed that tool to someone who actually has a critical viewpoint before production.What exactly is your issues with the tool? I love mine and has worked well for almost everything I've thrown at it and I do a range of different things through my day which I use it for.
Welcome Poncho, look forward to your objective feedback... :popcorn:
I do not have a T4 yet. Curious to see how you get along with it.
Well my new P4 has arrived today. First impressions are great, except access to the inner most tools on the awl side. It actually feels very much like an original Wave.
Tbh I would not have paid the full price at £169 in the UK but I managed to get it for £120. It was a second with inscribing over written in block.
I haven't tried it in anger yet but will let you know my thoughts. I'm new to the site but I've had leathermans since my first wave in 2001ish. I have built up a nice collection and usually carry an MUT, skeletool or Signal but always found I missed a file and scissors.
Are the inside tools on the awl side hard to open?
I mean, they should open just as easy with one hand as the other side, maybe the tool is still a bit stiff and needs to be worked in a bit more?
So what's the overall consensus on these tools? I see mixed feelings and have come to the conclusion that although carrying a Wave or a Charge is nice, I really don't need a super heavy duty tool for daily use, figured I would ask. I would like to try one but am going to try and trade my way for one. If anyone here has one they want to trade, check out my post in the "Tools Wanted" section.
So what's the overall consensus on these tools? I see mixed feelings and have come to the conclusion that although carrying a Wave or a Charge is nice, I really don't need a super heavy duty tool for daily use, figured I would ask. I would like to try one but am going to try and trade my way for one. If anyone here has one they want to trade, check out my post in the "Tools Wanted" section.
Save your money and get a Rebar instead :tu:Or save no money and get two Rebars instead.
So what's the overall consensus on these tools? I see mixed feelings and have come to the conclusion that although carrying a Wave or a Charge is nice, I really don't need a super heavy duty tool for daily use, figured I would ask. I would like to try one but am going to try and trade my way for one. If anyone here has one they want to trade, check out my post in the "Tools Wanted" section.
Welcome to :MTO: well posting anyways ;) :cheers:
Those are some great mods and I love the layout of your P4 8) :drool: :like: :like:
It's the Leatherman Free P4! Magnets? How do they even work‽
Awesome review, Jothra :like: :like: I know that you as a member of MTO are much more reliable of a source than most other places online :tu: :like: I haven't carried my P2 much and still want a P4 but I haven't had any problems with any of my Free tools because of the magnets or any other problems for that matter, either :tu: I just prefer a Wave, Charge, Rebar or Supertool (all the generations) over the Free series but that doesn't mean I dislike it, it just means that I like the other options better :cheers:
Great pics to go with the review as well :woohoo:
The pliers are very Hefty on the Free P series and I do wished that we would see those on some of the next Gen tools :tu: :like:I would like to see that as well. Though, just to be clear, I used the closed pivots as a hammer.
Ah, gotcha :cheers: I have used a MT as a hammer more than I will admit :whistle: :DWhen all you have is nails, every tool's a hammer
Look under the Philips on the retaining clip that holds the plier head
How do you like it so far?
Man o man! I just backed a gold deck screw out. It was holding a 2x4 onto drywall. The were already partially backed out. I'm not impressed by the phillips driver. It slipped despite my putting lots of pressure behind it, and when complete with two screws it looks a bit worn / rounded. My wave never had this issue. First hard use, and not psyched with the performance. That bums me out as I was wanting to like this tool. I'm shopping for a Charge. If I can score one cheap enough, maybe this'll got o my 12 year old
Is that a P2? I’m also thinking that the P2 would work with my 12yr old somewhere along the line. The tool’s weight is the only thing bothering me even though it will be pouch carry.
Here my P4 setup! Aloha (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210809/08427fc96b6473996467e785ceab415d.jpg)
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Very cool blade :o :drool: :like: :like:Thank you! I wanted to mirror it on the other side, but the tool customizer was having issues. I kinda like just having one side. I’ve thought of getting a Curl that is customized, but I already have many tools.
I have never understood why the didn't make the Philips compatible with a bit kit or at least include a new 1/4" bit adapter. For $150 that seems the least they could do....
Welcome to :MTO: stuntzombie :cheers:
Excellent pics and glad you are getting on with the P2 :woohoo: :like:
I've had a Free P2 for a few months now, and it's become my favorite multi-tool that I've ever owned. If I could change one thing, it would be to switch out the partially serrated blade for a plain edge. Regardless, it's ground nice and thin and is scary sharp. The tool set is pretty much perfect for my uses, and it handles just about anything I come across at work.
(https://i.imgur.com/GbapMyXh.jpg)
Here it is with a couple of other daily carry tools.
(https://i.imgur.com/nMZbhSkh.jpg)
A P2 fan and a Lego Fan :salute: I believe the new Back to the Future DeLorean is in that catalog. Have been waiting for it.I have the same catalog, and yes, the new DeLorean is in there. There is also a pretty sharp looking Lamborghini Countach under the Speed Champions line.
I have the same catalog, and yes, the new DeLorean is in there. There is also a pretty sharp looking Lamborghini Countach under the Speed Champions line.
Unfortunately the T2 and T4 blades are smaller than the ones on both the P2 and P4 :-\
Looking at a P4 to round out my latest acquisitions. Do I need a P4 though or do I want a P2? I have a few large tools (mut, surge, ST 300). But I guess I have a few smaller ones too… A couple waves and a skeletool.
They are the same sized tool the P2 is just thinner :cheers:
I have the P2 but it was only because I got a good deal and wpuld have preferred the P4 if I could have gotten a deal on one of those instead :salute:
Got the P4. Didn’t think I’d care much for the one handed open but I’m kinda digging it. Might take the place of the wave in my man purse.
No idea about the can opener, Dunc :whistle: I really never use one :ahhh
Great pic, Dunc 8) :like: Also glad to hear that the bottle and can opener work as they should :tu: :like: :like:
I forget where the datecode is in these at the moment :facepalm:
I know that you pretty well have to disassemble the Free T4 to see the date of those but I forget if the P series has them and where :dunno: :ahhh
Look under the Phillips on the little tab for date code
There’s nothing on mine so it’s either an early one or LM have stopped dating them
I see! If you want to try the T4 more, I can take care of your Charge knife :whistle:
:gimme:
I'm having some issues in the last week where the implements on my P2 (the has the can opener) have become stiff and very hard to open. I've oiled it up really well and can get them to pop open with a thumb roll like normal unless I loosen the torx screws holding the tool together. I've also used compressed air to clean out gunk that might be in there. Anything I might be overlooking? Don't want to sent it to Leatherman if it's something I may be overlooking. The P2 has been my edc for a few years now and hasn't given any issues.
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Welcome to :MTO: Berg :cheers:
If I had to pick between them I would go with a Wave as well :salute: I prefer the tools on the Wave over the Free P4 :cheers:
Free is nice effort my LM to come up with some new ideas. Not comfortable as pliers but P4 is a good package.Thanks for the welcome!
Surge is bulletproof but a large tool, too large for many ppl.
Wave has been and remains the #1 choice for many, and for a first-time MT user, would be my recommendation.
Good luck with your choice and welcome to :MTO:
Just went through here and it seems I never officially joined this club. Had my P4 out for a cleaning and lube when the mail arrived.
Don’t remember it being as heavy as it feels now. Curious to weigh it vs some of my other tools later. Still a huge fan of the pocket clip though. Makes me want a Bond and wish the Rebar had the same clip.
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/i86/HarleyXJGuy/FullSizeRender_3MobtS43V1q9ZBKhvZj1fM.jpg)
I forget if we have an owners club for those :dunno:
Seems like we do though :think:
Awesome pics, guys! :tu:
Here ya go: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,87798.msg2265298.html#msg2265298
(https://i.imgur.com/KLp7uXgh.jpg)Great picture, Poncho! :tu:
Poncho, I'm betting you're happy with the arc. And it's doubtful this drives prices up on P4, but if retired, finding a nib example might be tough for collectors.
And once you realise what you’ve been missing, you’ll need a user to go with your NIB collection one.
And a backup.
I think the P4 is still my favourite and most carried Leatherman.
REI has the free P4 in stock and price at $111.93. Usually prices ending in 0.93 are being phased out. Might be an indication that the p4 is being retired.
Do you prefer it over the arc?
With you saying that and pointing out the reduced price I may or may not have bought one from REI :dwts: :rofl: :D
REI has the free P4 in stock and price at $111.93. Usually prices ending in 0.93 are being phased out. Might be an indication that the p4 is being retired.
Im glad the post helped some of you spend your Christmas money. I pulled the trigger on an ARC with medical discount. Got bit kits too.You wanna sell that P2? I’m curious to try it as a slim EDC alternative.
I've been carrying the P2 for a long while now, but I've been collecting charges (not sure why aside from an addiction). I view the P2 as disposable because I think it's replacement value is 75ish. The tip is busted too.
Might either save the arc and carry an old Ti that LM replaced the plier head on, or start carrying the arc. But even with the discount it's such an expensive tool to replace if lost.
I'm curious if the implements on the arc are as weak as the P2. I find the flat and Philips easily round off vs the charges tough tool set.
It'll be interesting to see the new Free lineup. They gotta have something planned with the crunch and alleged P2 / P4 retirements. There's gotta be a tool with serrated blade as LM will need parts to repair P2s.
My P2 has early 2019 date code but i doubt itll be collectible. I like the ease of deployment on the Free, but never got used to not having a saw and bit driver. I would've got the P4, but knowing the arc with bit driver was coming, I held off. Merry Holidays
Maybe. Lemme see how the arc is when it arrivesSounds good. Can you tell me the date code? I also collect 0519 tools for my carry.
I think the oldest ones (1st released) didn't have a stamp. If I recall, there were a couple changes made early on too.
I'm now starting to think we'll see a Free P2+ and P4+ in 2024 that include a bit driver instead of all the flat head screwdrivers.
Size of the P2 is great, but a P2+ or P3 in the some size with bit driver is going to be better. I just got the arc, but have been carrying an old Ti. Love the Ti. I had never carried it with a pocket clip till now. Always used a sheath with wave and charge, but my P2 turned me into a pocket carrier. However with the Ti, I notice the handles open a bit in my side carhartt pocket. The magnets on the P2 never allowed that to happen.
Still available on Amazon for anyone who is not aware.
Got my P4 with me today.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53567933530_0832697aa5_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2pBBEmS)
Question about P2 gentleman's :hatsoff:
I saw it at pretty good price in a store BUT
my question : is anyone have tried if the SOG bit kit adapter is compatible with the philips head on leaterman p2/p4 ? by looking picture it's seems it can work but before maybe buying it i prefer to know ???