Multitool.org Forum
Tool Talk => General Tool Discussion => Topic started by: Grant Lamontagne on January 12, 2018, 12:34:40 PM
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Recently there has been a lot of hooplah in the media regarding the importation and legality of folding pocket knives, and a lot of hysteria, paranoia and misinformation.
The MTO Admin Team published this article last night to address this, dispel some of the unwarranted fears and outline some of the realistic potential ones.
Please take a few moments to read this. If you are Canadian and a member of this forum this WILL affect you.
http://multitool.org/news/concerns-about-canadian-international-trade-tribunal-decision-on-centrifugal-opening-knives
Def
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I hope that this works out in your favour. :-\
Good luck Canada!
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Maybe include in the newsletter???
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That seems like a total knee jerk overreaction by people who likely haven't really considered or understood the full consequences. Good someone pays attention.
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this has been the discussion subject on the knife forums all this week.
Don't they realise how stupid, pointless and ineffective that is ???
Really, Canada is going to end up like the EU before the end of this decade.
The most absurd of this thing is that Canadian stores and authorised dealers still sell and have sold for years these very same knives to the public... :facepalm:
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this has been the discussion subject on the knife forums all this week.
Don't they realise how stupid, pointless and ineffective that is ???
Really, Canada is going to end up like the EU before the end of this decade.
The most absurd of this thing is that Canadian stores and authorised dealers still sell and have sold for years these very same knives to the public... :facepalm:
T K Maxx (a clothing store!!!!!!! ) sometimes sells made in china multitools here.
And here the law technically prohibits carrying ANY kind of sharp or pointy object in public without a reason.
I'm pretty sure that you are not told that when you buy a knife in a shop.
Sooo.... I assume that there are lots of people unknowingly breaking the law? :facepalm:
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Hi Grant,
Please clarify...does the CBSA mean to say that anyone crossing the border from the US to Toronto to see Niagra Falls from the nicer side would be prohibited from bringing their one-hand trekked across the border with them? While it seems for the time being, they are still legal to buy, sell, and own in Canada?
Also, I have an old Browning model 810 composite and wood featherweight lockback folder. There is only a nail knick with which to open it, but I practiced doing it with one hand. So, just because I'm skilled, I can't carry that?
Y-yikes
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Yup.
I am limited in what I can say in the topic, but yes, when you enter a country you are expected to follow their laws, and so yes, it would be illegal to carry your knife into Canada, even if you are visiting.
Def
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Can you carry a knife on you if you are flying over Canada? ;)
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Can you carry a knife on you if you are flying over Canada? ;)
Totally a valid question if you have your own plane. :pok:
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Doesn't everybody?
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Not everyone are as rich as you and me unfortunately. :-[
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peasants..... they are everywhere...
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What can we do about them I wonder....
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Can you carry a knife on you if you are flying over Canada? ;)
Assuming you are in a plane (good idea for human flight) the laws during flight should be the laws of the country of the planes registration. Before you takeoff or after landing the laws should match the respective countries.
In general though carrying a knife on planes these days seems to be asking for hassle or worse.
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Would they be prohibited to own or just carry?
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This is some sad news indeed.
As a frequent visitor to the great state of Canada I've carried all sorts of folding knives and fixed bladed knives when traveling there. The officers who have guarded the borders of Canada from the likes of me have always been extremely polite and friendly and have never hassled me about the knives I've carried into Canada. I've always been extremely candid in declaring the hardware I carry into Canada (because the border officers explicitly ask), but I've never had an issue. Damn fine fellows.
Let's hope it stays that way. I'd hate to see Canada go the way of California......
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Just so you know, Canada is actually a country, not a state. We have a flag and everything.... :D
Def
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Would they be prohibited to own or just carry?
As it is, it isn't a law. It is an interpretation by the border guards (CBSA= Canadian Border Services Agency) so at this point it is only importation of knives. So, there's only potentially a problem when playing in their neighborhood.
Def
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Just so you know, Canada is actually a country, not a state. We have a flag and everything.... :D
Def
Are you sure? I swear it's part of the country. I mean, we have a flag too.....
(https://ak0.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/2663300/thumb/1.jpg?i10c=img.resize(height:160))
It's not as pretty as your tree leaf flag, but it's a real flag. You may want to check the outcome of the unpleasantness that ended in 1865 before y'awl decide to secede. Just sayin'. :pok:
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Would they be prohibited to own or just carry?
As it is, it isn't a law. It is an interpretation by the border guards (CBSA= Canadian Border Services Agency) so at this point it is only importation of knives. So, there's only potentially a problem when playing in their neighborhood.
Def
But it stops the import, so the same as a law but without having to go through all the hassle :twak:
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I just tried what you showed in the animated gif in the article with my One Hand Trekker and even flailing my arm wildly I can't get it to open all the way. I guess that just has to do with the pivot tension.
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Would they be prohibited to own or just carry?
If I am reading this right, and understand Def correctly, it means we from the US may not, nor the Russians by way of the Lomonosov Ridge, nor anyone from, say, Thule Greenland, and presumebly the same by it and sea - none may cross the border into Canada whilst carrying any of those knives described. Which unfortunately now seem to include swiss army knives and certain leatherman tools.
Once there, however, we may purchase them, own them, carry them, trade or sell them, and we may even cross the Canadian border back into our home countries or possibly any other country with them.
The additional fear being that this border restriction might someday be adopted as a national carry law in Canada
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Would they be prohibited to own or just carry?
As it is, it isn't a law. It is an interpretation by the border guards (CBSA= Canadian Border Services Agency) so at this point it is only importation of knives. So, there's only potentially a problem when playing in their neighborhood.
Def
When you say importation, I presume your mean personal importation. The CBSA have no authority to ban a knife nor the import in the commercial Freight Forwarding sense, of any item that is legal in Canada. That would require an act of Canada's legislative branch, I would think. They can only ban personal such items (or crates of contraband such items, which goes without say) from crossing the border, due to safety concerns of their officers, much the same way I can carry a leatherman all day, but not on a plane.
Right?
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Would they be prohibited to own or just carry?
As it is, it isn't a law. It is an interpretation by the border guards (CBSA= Canadian Border Services Agency) so at this point it is only importation of knives. So, there's only potentially a problem when playing in their neighborhood.
Def
But it stops the import, so the same as a law but without having to go through all the hassle :twak:
Pretty much.
Def
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I just tried what you showed in the animated gif in the article with my One Hand Trekker and even flailing my arm wildly I can't get it to open all the way. I guess that just has to do with the pivot tension.
The wording includes manual manipulation. If you look closely I open it halfway normally then flick it the rest of the way.
The test board also allowed numerous attempts and will fail the knife even if it takes 3-4 tries to snap it open.
Def
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Would they be prohibited to own or just carry?
As it is, it isn't a law. It is an interpretation by the border guards (CBSA= Canadian Border Services Agency) so at this point it is only importation of knives. So, there's only potentially a problem when playing in their neighborhood.
Def
When you say importation, I presume your mean personal importation. The CBSA have no authority to ban a knife nor the import in the commercial Freight Forwarding sense, of any item that is legal in Canada. That would require an act of Canada's legislative branch, I would think. They can only ban personal such items (or crates of contraband such items, which goes without say) from crossing the border, due to safety concerns of their officers, much the same way I can carry a leatherman all day, but not on a plane.
Right?
Wrong.
They have the authority and the latitude to interpret the laws any way they feel is necessary to effectively achieve their mandate.
Def
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Y-yikes. I can see why this molehill could become a mountain in a hurry.
How the check can they do that, if their jurisdiction is border only, and they don't make law. I hate that crap.
Good luck up there
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Reading those suggested rules again they will not even work as intended:
If they actually want to ban knives that can be opened quickly with one hand that is exactly what they should write. Instead they try to ban a few specific implementations to that end. Those will just end up being circumvented by other technical solutions offering the same quick one hand opening.
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I just tried what you showed in the animated gif in the article with my One Hand Trekker and even flailing my arm wildly I can't get it to open all the way. I guess that just has to do with the pivot tension.
I can do it with my "German Army" OHT, but not my camo plain edge variant, which has a pretty stiff pivot. Probably the biggest discrepancy I've experienced in new Victorinox products.
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So does this mean my Leatherman Wave is in trouble now? What a ridiculous thing that CBSA has the power to do.
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I really can't contribute anything but my condolences. I'm so sorry, guys. We've also seen this dance, we all know how it ends.
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I really can't contribute anything but my condolences. I'm so sorry, guys. We've also seen this dance, we all know how it ends.
That might very well be, but if they bid up to dance then dancing might at least provide some damper to their worst moves. Leaving them well alone to regulate unchecked sounds scary.
It might have been those weird fumes I smelled in a confined space earlier today, but all of a sudden I feel all poetic and smurf:
Though wise men at their end know Raven is right,
Do not go gentle into that good fight,
Rage, rage against the dying of the right.
(Free manglement of Dylan Thomas actually great poem :angel: ).
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If we're going to go with guerilla dogrel....
The more you hurt me, the more I bleed.
And every drop that falls shall be a seed.
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If we're going to go with guerilla dogrel....
The more you hurt me, the more I bleed.
And every drop that falls shall be a seed.
Interesting one. I hadn't heard that one before.
That said talking about hurting, bleeding and dripping might not be the best rally cry for accessible knives..? ::) :cheers:
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Wow! Canada, where most of the population likes the outdoors, camping, fishing, hunting. How do you select your judges?! Probably like we do, for the looks of it.
:facepalm:
This can ban ANY knife. You can even flick open a Buck 110, if you hold the blade and flick the knife, letting the heavy handle open and lock in place.
(http://mytabletennis.net/forum/uploads/16621/run_to_hills.jpg)
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See from 2m50s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7jlGtHW8Rk
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You're smurfed! Big time!
:ahhh :ahhh :ahhh :ahhh
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Another video about the same question (from 2013):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmQzajxn6eA
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(https://farm8.static.flickr.com/7054/27259774712_ebf72eb501_b.jpg)
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Yup. It's amazing how many knives this truly covers.
I have managed to open a Skeletool, Surge and numerous other mutitools this way, so many plier based tools will also be illegal to import.
Def
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How can legislators be so good at making vague laws like this? :facepalm:
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How can legislators be so good at making vague laws like this? :facepalm:
I'd say "Practice" but I really should not be saying anything. :facepalm:
Def
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You will need to move the MTO store overseas..
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Yeah... the MTO island will need to be outside Canadian national waters now.
But seriously, are non-OHO non-locking SAKs also affected? A SwissChamp is so heavy that it can probably also be flicked open, given a strong thumb nail and index finger, a loose pivot and a weak spring. (I need to try this out. Pity it's at home.) One could then overzealously interpret the extended position as "locked" (note the forum article text does not say how the lock is achieved) - the same spring resists retraction of the blade, initially in any case.
I (still legally) brought it to Vancouver (BC) last autumn in checked luggage from Germany. So this year I can't?
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A SwissChamp should be fine, but leave the OHT at home.
Def
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Yeah... the MTO island will need to be outside Canadian national waters now.
But seriously, are non-OHO non-locking SAKs also affected? A SwissChamp is so heavy that it can probably also be flicked open, given a strong thumb nail and index finger, a loose pivot and a weak spring. (I need to try this out. Pity it's at home.) One could then overzealously interpret the extended position as "locked" (note the forum article text does not say how the lock is achieved) - the same spring resists retraction of the blade, initially in any case.
I (still legally) brought it to Vancouver (BC) last autumn in checked luggage from Germany. So this year I can't?
This came to mind. Some more laws like these around the world and we really need to be thinking about making this a real thing.
:think: :think:
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How can legislators be so good at making vague laws like this? :facepalm:
Governments do not primarily protect their citizens. Governments primarily protect their power. All else is government manucia.
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Yeah... the MTO island will need to be outside Canadian national waters now.
But seriously, are non-OHO non-locking SAKs also affected? A SwissChamp is so heavy that it can probably also be flicked open, given a strong thumb nail and index finger, a loose pivot and a weak spring. (I need to try this out. Pity it's at home.) One could then overzealously interpret the extended position as "locked" (note the forum article text does not say how the lock is achieved) - the same spring resists retraction of the blade, initially in any case.
I (still legally) brought it to Vancouver (BC) last autumn in checked luggage from Germany. So this year I can't?
This came to mind. Some more laws like these around the world and we really need to be thinking about making this a real thing.
:think: :think:
Originally I thought Multitool Island should be in the Caribbean or South America, until I found that one in Quebec.
Now I'm thinking South America or the Caribbean again. :facepalm:
Def
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All I can say is good luck :salute:
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Yeah... the MTO island will need to be outside Canadian national waters now.
But seriously, are non-OHO non-locking SAKs also affected? A SwissChamp is so heavy that it can probably also be flicked open, given a strong thumb nail and index finger, a loose pivot and a weak spring. (I need to try this out. Pity it's at home.) One could then overzealously interpret the extended position as "locked" (note the forum article text does not say how the lock is achieved) - the same spring resists retraction of the blade, initially in any case.
I (still legally) brought it to Vancouver (BC) last autumn in checked luggage from Germany. So this year I can't?
This came to mind. Some more laws like these around the world and we really need to be thinking about making this a real thing.
:think: :think:
Originally I thought Multitool Island should be in the Caribbean or South America, until I found that one in Quebec.
Now I'm thinking South America or the Caribbean again. :facepalm:
Def
How about just buying a large carrier and have it stay in international waters? It could move around the globe, avoid bad weather or conflict areas...
:think: :think:
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How about just buying a large carrier and have it stay in international waters? It could move around the globe, avoid bad weather or conflict areas...
:think: :think:
Something like the ship "the world" then? Basically a ship of apartments where the owners/ residents keep roaming around the world all year long. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_The_World
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an ark?
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It would all be fun and games until someone dropped a Surge and we sank.
Def
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Or got hit by a big Wave..
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an ark?
That'd be kewl!
:D :D :D :D
I'd specially like to see who the couples would be...
:dd:
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...one of each multitool.....
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...one of each multitool.....
One of each? Tsk tsk, you know "one is none, two is one" :twak:
:D
Now we have to come up with a proper name for our ark... :think:
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...one of each multitool.....
One of each? Tsk tsk, you know "one is none, two is one" :twak:
:D
Now we have to come up with a proper name for our ark... :think:
So, according to your previous statement... The Ark of Threesomes?
:think: :think:
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FFM, MMM, FFF, MMF ?
Do multitools have Gender I wonder (maybe this is poll material)
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In Norwegian multitools are non-gender. Knives and scissors are male though.
How do these things get decided anyway? It there like an official gender examination program? Somewhere there are full time employees trying hard to associate a gender with various stuff? How do you become a recognized expert at that? Or maybe the official title isn't expert but grand master, ninja, prophet or similar? Gender whisperer?
My mind is blown. I'll be useless the rest of the day. :facepalm:
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In Norwegian multitools are non-gender. Knives and scissors are male though.
How do these things get decided anyway? It there like an official gender examination program? Somewhere there are full time employees trying hard to associate a gender with various stuff? How do you become a recognized expert at that? Or maybe the official title isn't expert but grand master, ninja, prophet or similar? Gender whisperer?
My mind is blown. I'll be useless the rest of the day. :facepalm:
That sounds like a kinky profession...
:whistle:
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:nanadance: :nanadance: :nanadance: :nanadance:
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In Norwegian multitools are non-gender. Knives and scissors are male though.
How do these things get decided anyway? It there like an official gender examination program? Somewhere there are full time employees trying hard to associate a gender with various stuff? How do you become a recognized expert at that? Or maybe the official title isn't expert but grand master, ninja, prophet or similar? Gender whisperer?
My mind is blown. I'll be useless the rest of the day. :facepalm:
That sounds like a kinky profession...
:whistle:
Is it like a cat whisperer?
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In Norwegian multitools are non-gender. Knives and scissors are male though.
How do these things get decided anyway? It there like an official gender examination program? Somewhere there are full time employees trying hard to associate a gender with various stuff? How do you become a recognized expert at that? Or maybe the official title isn't expert but grand master, ninja, prophet or similar? Gender whisperer?
My mind is blown. I'll be useless the rest of the day. :facepalm:
That sounds like a kinky profession...
:whistle:
Is it like a cat whisperer?
Hard to know without any live sightings of them? Maybe it is the profession of choice for big foot? Surely they have more than one foot though? Although one really big foot might explain the name. One big foot might lead to the infamous circle walking syndrome.
Edit: I think I just solved the circular patterns in corn fields mystery.
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In Norwegian multitools are non-gender. Knives and scissors are male though.
How do these things get decided anyway? It there like an official gender examination program? Somewhere there are full time employees trying hard to associate a gender with various stuff? How do you become a recognized expert at that? Or maybe the official title isn't expert but grand master, ninja, prophet or similar? Gender whisperer?
In Spanish multitools are female, knives male and scissors female :shrug:
There must be a Universal, above-humanity and all-knowing committee that decides that
(https://i.imgur.com/H2FU6xS.jpg)
but is that commitee male or female? :ahhh
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There must be a Universal, above-humanity and all-knowing committee that decides that
Finally, proof that aliens are here. I'll blame them for all the silly comittees then.
but is that commitee male or female? :ahhh
We might need to probe for that? With we I mean someone else.
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In Norwegian multitools are non-gender. Knives and scissors are male though.
How do these things get decided anyway? It there like an official gender examination program? Somewhere there are full time employees trying hard to associate a gender with various stuff? How do you become a recognized expert at that? Or maybe the official title isn't expert but grand master, ninja, prophet or similar? Gender whisperer?
In Spanish multitools are female, knives male and scissors female :shrug:
There must be a Universal, above-humanity and all-knowing committee that decides that
(https://i.imgur.com/H2FU6xS.jpg)
but is that commitee male or female? :ahhh
In portuguese, everything is female! Huh... I mean, MTs and knives and scissors... Although pliers are male, just like hammers.
:think: :think:
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...one of each multitool.....
One of each? Tsk tsk, you know "one is none, two is one" :twak:
:D
Now we have to come up with a proper name for our ark... :think:
So, according to your previous statement... The Ark of Threesomes?
:think: :think:
I was more thinking in the lines of "GLMS Unworkable" :P
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So, according to your previous statement... The Ark of Threesomes?
:think: :think:
I was more thinking in the lines of "GLMS Unworkable" :P
How about a compromise? "Unworkable threesomes"? I've already did the footwork and the internet domain is still available. Amazingly a google search on that shows that the Canadian High Court, no less, have ruled that it is unworkable to use the law against immoral threesomes. Geez, I should really get back to working! :D
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Little BUMP for this subject :facepalm:
"Warriors and Wonders is Canada's largest online knife retailer and undoubtedly the best source of Spyderco in Canada. This was just posted on their website;
'Important notice: Due to a recent CBSA decision, we are no longer able to import Spyderco folding knives. As individual items sell out, they will be removed from our web site.' "
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How fast can you say “smugglers” :)
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Little BUMP for this subject :facepalm:
"Warriors and Wonders is Canada's largest online knife retailer and undoubtedly the best source of Spyderco in Canada. This was just posted on their website;
'Important notice: Due to a recent CBSA decision, we are no longer able to import Spyderco folding knives. As individual items sell out, they will be removed from our web site.' "
I noticed warriors and wonders carries Spyderco again so theyve been getting knives again. Can't find any mention of what changed. Amazon canada sells Spyderco too and theyre in stock. So doesnt look like we're missing out any more.
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:facepalm:
Good luck you guys :salute: I hope you can keep your rights to a basic tool :-\
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I shall try and explain gender specifics in all things mechanical.
As explained to me by an elderly tradesman many years ago.
I asked him why he referred to machines and cars as females, whereas the tools we used as males.
He stated that was because females were temperamental, unpredictable, usually played up at the worst possible time and could kill you.
tools, on the other hand, predictable, functional were used to do useful things, and, while they could hurt you, they rarely killed you.
He was never married.
I now know why.
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Some ZT and Kershaw are alledgedly comming in ( as per several people on Canadian Knives and Gear ) well . Spyderco stuff is deffo comming in Warriors is selling out on new stuff , and bringing in more .
Not sure WTAF is going on . Outfits like MEC and Victorinox have lots of OHO stuff ( visited the Swiss Army Store in Toronto ) .
Best Regards ,
Chris
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I may not be up to date on this. I see that the mountain equipment coop (mec.ca) carries the victorinox soldier lock blade and rangergrip. Both have one hand opening lock blade knives but also have several other functions including separate screwdrivers and saws. They also carry the Gerber Order drop point knife which certainly looks like a oho knife and the Buck Spitfire knife which they advertise as OHO. There are at least two more that are single blades and at least designed to be opened one handed. They used to carry the Sentinel - a oho single blade knife but do not have it in their catalogue now (at least on line).
I also see that Warriors and Wonders seems to be carrying a lot of one hand opening knives - not sure if this is old stock or they are now able to bring in new stock from across the border.
My question relates to the definition of a one hand opening knife - are the knives (OHO) with other separate implements not covered by this ban? As you may know I had a sanrenmu/land oho knife seized by the "gentlemen" at the border about a year ago. I don't really wish to donate further to their cause but would like to know the answer to this question.
Also are there changes to the application of their ruling because it certainly seems to me that the wholesalers in Canada have managed to get around the border "security" ruling. One way would be to have the supplier tighten up the pivot screws - I wonder if this is the case?
Thank you.
John.
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Further to the above Warriors and Wonders has under New Products a number of oho knives - mentioned by Chris above.
Anyone who can clarify this - it would be appreciated.
John.
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Further to the above Warriors and Wonders has under New Products a number of oho knives - mentioned by Chris above.
Anyone who can clarify this - it would be appreciated.
John.
hey John, here are the news I read yesterday about this "situation": :salute:
W&W just got the first shipment from ZT in years. Also, for the first time in years (if ever?) knifecenter policy has been updated where they will now ship ZT knives to Canada.
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ThePeacent - thanks for the information. Can you let me know where you saw this?
I was by a local shop today and noted that they had quite a good selection of oho knives - including Spyderco and Benchmade (a lot of other makes also). I had a discussion with the younger gentleman behind the counter. He advised that they do not import anything - they get it from wholesalers. Before Christmas (Dec. 2018) he said they were very low on stock but just before Christmas they were able to get a good supply in. He seemed to think that bringing in small quantities and "non threatening" looking knives was the key to getting them by customs. I did note a number of flippers and others that certainly looked like customs would stop them.
In short I am somewhat at a loss as to what is going on. Could it be that commercial entries are now allowed but personal ones are not?? I just don't know.
John.
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ThePeacent - thanks for the information. Can you let me know where you saw this?
Could it be that commercial entries are now allowed but personal ones are not?? I just don't know.
John.
that seems to be the case,
and I read that update from a Canadian member of BladeForums :dunno:
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I don't propose to "beat this to death" however I see a bit in our latest federal budget saying that there will be money to have the same civilian oversight group that deals with the RCMP, deal with the border people.
From CBC Internet:
"Tucked away in the Liberals' 2019 budget, tabled Tuesday, was an announcement that Ottawa will assign an independent review agency to the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA)."
At least now we will have an independent body to complain too :D
John.
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I am afraid John that I have not so good news.
To quote the original poster:
"I received this email yesterday:
This is to inform you that a government response to petition e-1552, which you signed on the petitions website of the House of Commons, was tabled on March 18, 2019. You can view the response online, on the petitions website, at https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-1552."