Multitool.org Forum
Outdoor Section => The Outdoor and Survival Forum => Topic started by: Grant Lamontagne on February 27, 2012, 11:54:19 PM
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Bob and I discussed this at SHOT after looking at the Les Stroud knives and I kept meaning to get everyone else's thoughts on it. The recent Opinel survival knife thread has reminded me about it, so here goes.
When we looked at the Les Stroud knives at the show we saw that basically the knives weren't anything special (as expected) but they did have lots of gadgets attached to the sheaths like sharpeners, reflectors and places to wrap lots of paracord. In a survival situation, all of these would be handy, but then so would a Howard Johnson's. ::)
Survival, in my mind falls into two categories- lost in the woods and SHTF situations. If you are lost in the woods, I can't help but feel that your cell phone or a SPOT type GPS transmitter is your best friend, and probably a lot more useful than a knife. If you are lost in the woods, you probably want to be found, and you could use your knife to chop up some wood and build a signal fire and perhaps be rescued when a passing aircraft notices you, or you can press the panic button or dial 911 on your cell phone and help comes right to you. There are good reasons to have a knife, but if I had to choose one, I'd choose the phone or GPS emergency transmitter.
In a SHTF (Smurf Hits The Fan) type situation where you are on your own and there's no help in sight a knife could certainly be handy as well, but I think I would be more inclined to try and scrounge whatever I could. While I would appreciate a knife, it would be one of several dozen items I would want to secure, and perhaps not the highest priority item on the list- firearms, ammunition, food and clean water would top my list, although a knife would be a very close second tier need to the above items. Naturally a good knife would be important, and could perhaps aid in getting some of the above items, but they are also a lot easier to find, whether it be a kitchen knife or a decent sharp rock. Despite what Captain Kirk managed to do while being chased by a giant lizard man, it's somewhat difficult to build a gun from nothing.
In short, much like the survival knife craze of the 80's, the knife is a handy tool but is simply not what survival is about, no matter who's name is on it or how much paracord it has wrapped around it, the survival is in the person, not the tool. Because of this, I really don't care for so called survival knives simply because people will buy them and think they are prepared- they are not. The knife is a valuable part of survival, no matter the situation, but it it only a part.
Personally I think it's going to be easy to locate a knife in a SHTF type situation as there are going to be a lot of yuppie corpses clutching some really neat knives lying around.
Def
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Wise words boss. While I don't expect much from Mr. Grylls I was very disappointed to see the Les Stroud line of "survival" knives. I was really hoping he would maybe design a blade shape or something and let a high quality manufacturer produce a Surviver Man edition fixed blade or something. I'll be watching his show to see if he actually uses his own product. I will go ahead and disagree with you a little bit though. Yes a GPS would be the ideal item for the lost in the woods scenario but things can go wrong with electronics. If I could have only one item it would be a medium sized fixed blade only because there are so many uses. Help build shelter, dig a hole for water or start a fire are pretty hard things to do with a dead GPS or a rifle without ammo. This being said I'd like to know the statistics on civilians lost in the woods for any length of time. If your smart enough to be prepared your probably smart enough to prevent situations in the first place. Yeah a knife would be great if your lost in the woods but if you brought your GPS then what the heck are you doing getting lost in the first place?! I'm hoping people going to remote and isolated areas are not relying on their Bear Grylls survival knife to get them out.
Stay multi my friends
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You are always free to disagree with me, even if you insist on being wrong! :P
I was approaching the "lost in the woods" scenario as being in a situation like a plane crash, or having gotten lost in a storm or other natural disaster. For whatever reason, the person is in the woods with no support. The GPS transmitters I was referring to are these types:
http://www.findmespot.ca/en/ (http://www.findmespot.ca/en/)
They are basically a transmitter with no screen or navigational aids, just a satellite transmitter that sends your coordinates to an emergency service. Yes, they can break, but they are built pretty solidly, and more so than many so called survival knives. And, with one of these I'll be in a helicopter on my way back to the hotel while you are digging a hole! :P
As for the Les Stroud knives, well I wasn't expecting much, but they actually seem like decent quality knives. They are going to be better than I expected they would be, but the reality is, if I decide that I am going somewhere where I may need to "survive" I am going to bring a hell of a lot more than my Bear Grylls or Les Stroud survival knife with me.
To me, a survival knife needs to have more EDC features, like a SAK or multitool, since a "survival situation" is not the kind of thing you can always prepare for- basically it revolves around what you have on you. For example, there's rarely time to stop at Wal Mart to stick up on camping gear when the small plane you are in is headed for a very hard landing. You have to make do with what you have with you, and you are more likely to have a Leatherman Wingman with you than any so called survival knives.
Def
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Yea but...
Survival Knife! 1980s TV Commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gj9CMvwfv4#)
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(http://www.slicktiger.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/80s-Guy.jpg)
How many of these guys met their end when the saws broke, the compasses were dry, the fishing line broke and the matches got wet thanks to those awesome survival knives?
I had three of those survival knives- who else is sad enough to admit having one? :whistle:
Def
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You forgot about the plastic handles breaking off of the blade too...
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Just to be sure, we are talking about the Helle knife here, right? Or was there some other Les knife released this year?
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On the subject of survival knives, the only one which really seemed seemed to me to take a neat twist was the Ka-Bar Warthog. I missed getting one, but my dealer showed me one a few years ago. It had a very beefy blade, and the blade was wide enough to use as a small trowel. Now the ones that aren't imported (the originals with the old-style hammer butt) are too expensive to risk using! :(
I've had one of those Camillus USAF "survival" knives a bit. It's got a wonderful personality and cool vibe, but I just know the first time I tried to open a can of beans that sharp thin tip would snap.
Sorry if off topic! Bill
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I would generally agree with def on the survival knife topic, with the exception of gps over a knife. I think that most "survival" knives are more about marketing than real usefulness. I think that what def said about being a survivor is independent of survival tools is quite accurate. Its more important to develop skills than to hoard gear. Having skills and gear is just a winning combination.
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On a serious note, I agree with Def. Whether it's a night or two in the woods, or a night on the library steps of a city that has temporarily lost mass transport, I would be much better off with a MT or SAK.
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A survival knife doesn't have to be used in a survival situation, it also comes in handy when cutting down a few dead branches, peeling the bark and making a few hiking sticks. But then again, none of my knives are actually marketed as survival knife so...
I wish CT would put that knife on sale for $5 again, I'd buy one just to have one. :D
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Mobile phones rock as long as you have network coverage. (and if you do you are fool not to use it)
One thing i want to build is a hand crank cb radio
i've been really impressed with my camillus 1983 pilot knife of late, whilst the tip isn't there anymore the now sharpened nub works, partically with a rock or small log driving it.
Survival is not about mindset, life and everything you do is about mind set (in which survival as a concept has no distinction)
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Just to be sure, we are talking about the Helle knife here, right? Or was there some other Les knife released this year?
There is a whole series of Les Stroud Survivorman Knives coming from Camillus this year.
Def
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
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Phones are nice, but if I had to get a "come save my butt" signal out, I'd rather have a PLB. And I like GPS. But... I guess I'm old school enough that if I have to choose between a map of my area with a compass OR a GPS, I'm not going to be wearing about spare batteries for it.
I don't like the term "survival knife"- it makes it sound like you stick in the package of holy stuff just in case. Now, when I'm hiking or hunting, yes, I have a fixed blade on me or on my pack, usually my Ka-Bar or a Schrade H-15 (or increasingly, a Buck 143), it's backed up by a SAK and/or a multi. In the "survival kit" that I keep in my truck, mostly stuff that I have in a pouch so if suddenly find myself needing to take a hike before I melt down, I keep a Marble Trout and Bird knife- does that count?
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A brain is the best survival tool you can have, everything else is icing on the cake.
Mike
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Yea but...
Survival Knife! 1980s TV Commercial
:rofl:
I gotta admit, 420 molecular steel sounds a lot better than steel without molecules...
"They are the best-selling knives of its kind ever sold by us..."
Grant nailed it. In a "smurf" attack situation, I want a really heavy sturdy blade that will put up with a lot of abuse. I can't imagine a situation where my "survival" was in question, that my first priority is taking out a hook and 20ft of 10 pound test out of a chinese plastic handle and going trout fishing. Even as hungry as I always seem to be. I'd be better served dumping out the useless crap in the handle, putting an silicone o-ring on the cap, and filling it to the brim with Jack Daniels.
YMMV. Thanks for the retro laugh.
best-
-steve
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To me the whole idea of a big knife for chopping wood is like getting a big car with a huge trunk to haul lots of stuff home from the hardware store. It works if you're into big cars but a truck is even better. Even a small truck works better than a big car and an ax works better than any knife. I spend a lot of time in the woods and have never found any knife bigger than a SAK to be necessary except for dressing large game and even then it's always an H1 or other short hunting knife just for the simple fact that it's a fixed blade.
I have a few Fiskars and Estwing hatchets and a large Estwing axe. The Fiskars goes with me for chopping and the big ax stays at camp for firewood duty. I noticed early on that the older experienced guys carried a pocket knife and a hatchet in the woods and the young guys all fawned over the big knives.
As far as what's needed to survive? There was a time when we got by with half a brain, a worn set of teeth and a sharp rock.
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Also I recall you need a expensive subscription with SPOT for it to work, and your request for assistance is sent to the company, who then try to pass it to your country's emergency service.
For Canuks there is this (http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Paddling/TouringNavigation/PRD~5021-579/mcmurdo-fastfind-210-personal-locator-beacon.jsp), which while more expensive doesn't need yearly subscription, has something like ten times the transmission power than SPOT, and is directly monitored by the canadian rescue service. I'm sure other countries have something similar.
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In the right hands any knife is a survival knife, but it only becomes a survival knife when you actually need it for survival ... even if you just improvised it from a tin can lid. If all went wrong I'd still want a knife over and above a primary urban survival kit (phone and wallet). If I was cold and wet I'd still want to get a fire going to get warm and dry till help came, or cut my clothing so I could dress a wound or improvise a bandage, or harvest a stick to get to a better location close by (nearby shelter), or .....
You can be pretty sure the knife I'd have on me wouldn't have been marketed as a survival knife though. It would be a SAK or a multitool, or maybe even a 4" puuko. If I had a small axe or folding saw, all the better.
I'm hoping to get a Chris Caine Survival Tool before too long. Simple reason is it looks like a damn good tool which I could make good use of ... not to lug around with me waiting for the world to end
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I also lean toward the Smurfs hitting the Fan mentality. In the coming smurf apocalipse, I can think of plenty of smurf swatting, and splttering tools , I want on my belt.
Ever wandered into a smurf village? Those little varmits, draw blood, and when theres like a million of em crawing up your legs, they manage to get itno everything evan when you think your'e secure and have blocked outside acess to "creatures of the forest.
They like to swarm up on you too. They may be small but they can be vicious little buggers, in a pack .So don't get Lazy. Be on the alert no matter how Sleepy , you may get.
Sure you can stomp em into smurf soup, but a pair of steel toe boots is only gonna stomp, or boot so many smurfs , before your swimmin up smurf creek, and we all know how impossible that stuff is to get out.
Above all be prepared, or else your smurfed.
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I also lean toward the Smurfs hitting the Fan mentality.
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Above all be prepared, or else your smurfed.
You gotta give the little blue guys some credit. As far as I know, there has only been ONE smurf woman.
I'm no savant but I gotta beleive that the situation does create a lot of smurf angst and smurf testosterone (smurfosterone ?) so your average "Joe" smurf has a lot of baggage and anger.
Not like I get laid regular or anything, but at least there's several billion women rejecting me, as opposed to the one and only.
Survival Knife Indeed. :o
-steve
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(http://www.slicktiger.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/80s-Guy.jpg)
How many of these guys met their end when the saws broke, the compasses were dry, the fishing line broke and the matches got wet thanks to those awesome survival knives?
I had three of those survival knives- who else is sad enough to admit having one? :whistle:
Def
I think we're actually on the same page. I have yet to leave my avalanche beacon home so I have room for a survival knife.
Yup I had one of those too but I was 12yo so I don't feel too bad. Pretty sure I had to pay more than this $10 deal though...
Stay multi my friends
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Now let me point out that Bear actually uses a knife, whereas Les who is coming out with the new line of knives uses multiools, so really Les putting his name on a MT and Bear on a knife would have been more convincing.. Oh, Bear did come out with a knife, which he does use on his show. Les? Maybe he will dump his multitool and use a knife in the next series.
Most people (in their dream world) assume survival means killing animals and people so as to survive. Think Rambo First Blood (all Rambo films are great, period :salute:). Chopping down trees, with a single chop etc..
So with no gun you need a big, Crocodile Dundee style, knife or a Rambo knife.
If survival just means being able to make it in the forest, without anything actually hunting you down to kill you, for a few hours or days and possibly making some repairs to equipment then a SAK or a MT is more useful.
Oh, I have a Rambo 80s knife or two.. I think they were really cheap at the time, everybody had them and were sold everywhere… I do not know of anybody actually using them but their gadget factor was quite high.
:D
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Count me in the SAK / MT crowd for this. If I was lost in the woods, on a desert island, that sort of thing, the tool I'd want more than any other would be my Work Champ. After that a small axe or hatchet.
One tool I've come to consider essential for a lost in the wilderness, stay alive until you're found kind of situation is a wood rasp. I've taken a couple of 'primitive skills' outdoor classes, and learned how to build basic shelters, find water, make and use a fire bow, etc. Let me tell you, making a lean-to is a LOT easier if you have a tool like a rasp or a saw to notch the poles, or to cut a groove in a hearth block to use with a fire bow, and so on. I've also found one can be quite useful for making a fire bow.
That's why I'd want my Work Champ more than any other tool; for the kinds of tasks you'd be doing to make a temporary shelter, and so on, I think the saw and file would be a lot more useful than the blade.
On the 'survival celebrity' front, I'm not much of a fan of Les and I despise Grylls. I'm a Cody Lundin fan... I think he's absolutely right when he says the more you know, the less equipment you need. He usually gets by with nothing more than a small fixed blade. Don't know what it is, but it looks a lot like a Mora or one of those small bushcraft knives.
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Cody Lundin uses a Frost Mora carbon steel Classic No.2. :)
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Yea, if you get his book (http://www.amazon.com/98-6-Degrees-Keeping-Your-Alive/dp/1586852345) he spends a whole chapter on the Mora.
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Yea, if you get his book (http://www.amazon.com/98-6-Degrees-Keeping-Your-Alive/dp/1586852345) he spends a whole chapter on the Mora.
The sequel, When All Hell Breaks Loose, is good, too. :tu:
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He must not be selling many books... Uses a plain knife and can not even afford to buy shoes...
:D
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Not all that surprising, my parents prevented me from getting one of those Rambo "survival" knives in the early 80's. I haven't bought one since either.
Whenever I go out into the forest, I always bring my older Schrade Navitool. It has a built in compass, a nice array of fold out tools, and more importantly, a compartment that will hold a Bic lighter, or whatever you want to stash in there. It is a bit bulky, but I like it for what it does...insurance for those SHTF moments.
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I've got an old book from the 70's on survival. It's by an Australian fellow named Graves. Quite a thorough book with rope weaving, lacing branches and even how to build mud houses. It's questionable how much of it would pertain to my area, but as a kid I thought it a real find. I found the part about eating cats a bit too much, but hey, when in Melbourne...
Anyway, he recommends eschewing a knife or axe for a machete for survival use. I carry one in my emergency bag in my car. God help me if a policeman ever has need to search my vehicle! :whistle:
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Looks like I have opened a good can of worms with this one! It seems that while we all disagree on the details, we are all more or less on the same page though.
I will say that if the SHTF, someone please keep an eye on Chako as I doubt he's going to survive on his own very long relying on the Navitool! :P
Def
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Great thread.
The funny thing about survival situations is that you can only prepare for so much. I feel that a multitool is much more likely to provide utility than a survival knife is. Ultimately it depends on the survival scenario as to what type of knife or tool will be most useful.
The tool you have with you will always be the most useful;I always have a multi-tool and don't own a survival knife.
I love Les Stroud's general respect for his environment. The premise behind his show is that each episode is a scenario in which he uses the materials he would likely have with him. and I find that the fact that he most often uses a multi-tool is realistic for me.
Bear Gryll's just rubs me the wrong way how he seem very cavalier about his situation and the environment around him.
When the SHTF you never know what you will actaully have with you so I constantly practice situational awareness, and constantly imagine, research and train to be able to make anything a survival tool.
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It has a good compass, fire capabilities, and some sharp and pointy bits. The Navitool isn't all that bad. :D
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The one think that bugs me about all the 'pros' with their survival knives is that thy seem to think that battening through wood is a must. Come on. First of all, where do these hardcore guys find all this nicely sawed logs to baton in the woods anyway anyway. The first time I saw someone do this I thought they were crazy. A good axe can do a hell of a lot of tasks, from tree felling, carving, game cleaning. I LOVE my granfors bruks small forest axe. For a cheaper option Estwings will last a lifetime.
Somewhat regional though an axe in Canada is as to a machete in the jungle.
I still want to try one of these as a modern Rambo style knife.. its one piece but hollow. It will probably suck, but I need to get one to know for sure.
http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SCHF1SM/schrade-extreme-survival-special-forces-5 (http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SCHF1SM/schrade-extreme-survival-special-forces-5)
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I have to agree about the axe (or hatchet). Most anything can be done with an axe. Can't say the same for a multitool or a rifle. When push comes to shove, I'd also want a tough knife with me if at all possible.
I've read some positive reports about that Schrade knife, but I'd like to get my hands on one before I part with cash. I've owned a couple of the '80's hollow handle paper weights and don't want to waste any more money on what could be more of the same junk.
Dave
Sent from my iPad2 using Tapatalk
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Bob and I discussed this at SHOT after looking at the Les Stroud knives and I kept meaning to get everyone else's thoughts on it. The recent Opinel survival knife thread has reminded me about it, so here goes.
When we looked at the Les Stroud knives at the show we saw that basically the knives weren't anything special (as expected) but they did have lots of gadgets attached to the sheaths like sharpeners, reflectors and places to wrap lots of paracord. In a survival situation, all of these would be handy, but then so would a Howard Johnson's. ::)
Survival, in my mind falls into two categories- lost in the woods and SHTF situations. If you are lost in the woods, I can't help but feel that your cell phone or a SPOT type GPS transmitter is your best friend, and probably a lot more useful than a knife. If you are lost in the woods, you probably want to be found, and you could use your knife to chop up some wood and build a signal fire and perhaps be rescued when a passing aircraft notices you, or you can press the panic button or dial 911 on your cell phone and help comes right to you. There are good reasons to have a knife, but if I had to choose one, I'd choose the phone or GPS emergency transmitter.
In a SHTF (Smurf Hits The Fan) type situation where you are on your own and there's no help in sight a knife could certainly be handy as well, but I think I would be more inclined to try and scrounge whatever I could. While I would appreciate a knife, it would be one of several dozen items I would want to secure, and perhaps not the highest priority item on the list- firearms, ammunition, food and clean water would top my list, although a knife would be a very close second tier need to the above items. Naturally a good knife would be important, and could perhaps aid in getting some of the above items, but they are also a lot easier to find, whether it be a kitchen knife or a decent sharp rock. Despite what Captain Kirk managed to do while being chased by a giant lizard man, it's somewhat difficult to build a gun from nothing.
In short, much like the survival knife craze of the 80's, the knife is a handy tool but is simply not what survival is about, no matter who's name is on it or how much paracord it has wrapped around it, the survival is in the person, not the tool. Because of this, I really don't care for so called survival knives simply because people will buy them and think they are prepared- they are not. The knife is a valuable part of survival, no matter the situation, but it it only a part.
Personally I think it's going to be easy to locate a knife in a SHTF type situation as there are going to be a lot of yuppie corpses clutching some really neat knives lying around.
Def
Whilst I agree with what you've written, I do feel you could have been a tad more tactful, subtle shall we say?? (Hmm, slander springs to mind).
But, on the whole I agree. Survival knives are just too limiting. Given the choice I'd pick this everytime obviously paired with my MT too.
Chinese Military Shovel WJQ-308 (HQ + Full length).flv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGdbbEZVHqw#)
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I've got an old book from the 70's on survival. It's by an Australian fellow named Graves. Quite a thorough book with rope weaving, lacing branches and even how to build mud houses. It's questionable how much of it would pertain to my area, but as a kid I thought it a real find. I found the part about eating cats a bit too much, but hey, when in Melbourne...
Anyway, he recommends eschewing a knife or axe for a machete for survival use. I carry one in my emergency bag in my car. God help me if a policeman ever has need to search my vehicle! :whistle:
Lets see how strong my Google foo is.... was it Richard H graves. Bushcraft: A Serious guide to camping and Survival.
Whilst i understand the machete over axe school of thought, small fixed blades like the becker Bk11, and izula (or even smaller CRKT RSK/ Becker remora) really make not paring a knife silly.
Ï'm hoping the 12"ontario cutlass/machete is the last machete i'll ever buy that meets my real requirements in form and function... But so far the CS Spetznav shovel seems a much better tool for the blade sensitive thoughtless blanket attitudes :D
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You can tell Def, I am a big fan and user of the humble brick called the Navitool. :pok: :pok: :D
This is my user...
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/IMG_1090small.jpg)
I have these residing in my collection, and my user above.
(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/IMG_4391small.jpg)
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This is turning into a great thread guys! And I agree with boss-man; we all seem to have slightly different interpretations and preferences, but we're all thinking pretty much alike. It seems that a knife alone is one of the less useful things to have in a lost in the wood type of situation.
I would really love to have GB small forest axe... it's at the top of my wish list for camping gear, but I know my wife would kill me for buying one. She just wouldn't understand why I'd need to spend $100+ for what would seem to her be nothing more than an overgrown hatchet... :facepalm:
I've been meaning to get Cody's book, but just never had a chance really. The outdoors skills classes I've taken were taught by people who've done Cody's training as well. Lots of good info, and I like his approach of working with the environment instead of against it. I like that about Les too, but I have a big problem with the way he does his editing... I mean, do we need a cut scene every 20 or 30 seconds? I mean come on... that's just gonna give me a seizure fer cryin' out loud!
Anyway, great thread! Keep it comin'! :)
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I would really love to have GB small forest axe... it's at the top of my wish list for camping gear, but I know my wife would kill me for buying one. She just wouldn't understand why I'd need to spend $100+ for what would seem to her be nothing more than an overgrown hatchet... :facepalm:
Well... you can shave with it! The first thing i did when i got it was shave hair off my arm... others said it came that sharp so I had to know. How manly is it to see your husband shaving with an axe before heading into work! LOL. Tell your wife that.
A huge tree came down in my backyard last year. I chopped the entire thing up small enough to put in leaf bags... that axe was just a pleasure to use, light but perfectly weighted. I was going through the 10 inch trunk of the tree so fast it was just a joy to use. LOVE IT. I do baby that axe though, i wont chop near the ground with it. I have a full size Estwing for dirtier work, the all metal full size, its good too altough I did manage to bend it once.
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I would really love to have GB small forest axe... it's at the top of my wish list for camping gear, but I know my wife would kill me for buying one. She just wouldn't understand why I'd need to spend $100+ for what would seem to her be nothing more than an overgrown hatchet... :facepalm:
Well... you can shave with it! The first thing i did when i got it was shave hair off my arm... others said it came that sharp so I had to know. How manly is it to see your husband shaving with an axe before heading into work! LOL. Tell your wife that.
A huge tree came down in my backyard last year. I chopped the entire thing up small enough to put in leaf bags... that axe was just a pleasure to use, light but perfectly weighted. I was going through the 10 inch trunk of the tree so fast it was just a joy to use. LOVE IT. I do baby that axe though, i wont chop near the ground with it. I have a full size Estwing for dirtier work, the all metal full size, its good too altough I did manage to bend it once.
Oh, I trust you, believe me! You're preaching to the choir here... I know my wife though and unless I saved up and paid for it myself I'd be in the dog house for quite a while. :o I have a regular Fiskars axe, a 28" chopper, that has been a great tool. I've put a good convex edge on it and it does everything I ask of it, but it's not something I'd want to stow in my pack for backpacking or the like. I don't think it would be well suited to use as a lost in the woods kind of tool either. And, I know that having a tool with craftsmanship of a GB will be pleasing in and of itself.
So if I could only pick one tool to be lost in the woods with, I'd take my Work Champ first. I would also consider a Charge AL as well, but I don't actually have one, so I can't speak to that, but from what I know about them, I think it'd be the next most similar kind of tool.
If I could have two, then I definitely want an axe too, even my Fiskars would work, though of course I'd prefer to have the GB. From there, it's just typical stuff... saw, fixed blade, paracord, duct tape, etc.
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This is turning into a great thread guys! And I agree with boss-man; we all seem to have slightly different interpretations and preferences, but we're all thinking pretty much alike. It seems that a knife alone is one of the less useful things to have in a lost in the wood type of situation.
I would really love to have GB small forest axe... it's at the top of my wish list for camping gear, but I know my wife would kill me for buying one. She just wouldn't understand why I'd need to spend $100+ for what would seem to her be nothing more than an overgrown hatchet... :facepalm:
I've been meaning to get Cody's book, but just never had a chance really. The outdoors skills classes I've taken were taught by people who've done Cody's training as well. Lots of good info, and I like his approach of working with the environment instead of against it. I like that about Les too, but I have a big problem with the way he does his editing... I mean, do we need a cut scene every 20 or 30 seconds? I mean come on... that's just gonna give me a seizure fer cryin' out loud!
Anyway, great thread! Keep it comin'! :)
Funnily it was my wife that bought me my SFA. :D
The one think that bugs me about all the 'pros' with their survival knives is that thy seem to think that battening through wood is a must. Come on. First of all, where do these hardcore guys find all this nicely sawed logs to baton in the woods anyway anyway. The first time I saw someone do this I thought they were crazy. A good axe can do a hell of a lot of tasks, from tree felling, carving, game cleaning. I LOVE my granfors bruks small forest axe. For a cheaper option Estwings will last a lifetime.
Somewhat regional though an axe in Canada is as to a machete in the jungle.
I still want to try one of these as a modern Rambo style knife.. its one piece but hollow. It will probably suck, but I need to get one to know for sure.
http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SCHF1SM/schrade-extreme-survival-special-forces-5 (http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SCHF1SM/schrade-extreme-survival-special-forces-5)
totally agree with this. :salute: There are excellent reasons that different tools are popular in different environments, axes in temperate regions and machete's etc in more tropical areas. That said I don't mind being out and about without an axe, but I'll not go into the hills without a small sheath knife and, perhaps even more vital for survival, a good folding saw.
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Tosh, if you think I'm being slanderous in that post then you obviously have not seen my posts talking about the crap from Taylor Cutlery or United. I stand by what I say and I challenge anyone I have slandered to prove me wrong.
In fact, the Les Stroud Knives appear to be better than I thought they'd be. Unfortunately there were only mock ups at SHOT so I was unable to see the finished product but the specs sounded good. The reality is that I am not going to carry an overly bulky fixed blade with a sheath full of gadgets around all the time just in case the fan turns brown. I may keep it in a bug out bag, but if I have a bug out bag the it probably has the same stuff on the fancy sheath does, only in greater quantities. What I need to be able to survive with is what I have with me, which in many cases means a SAK and/or multitool.
I can be a lot more slanderous if you'd like though! >:)
Def
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
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Tosh, if you think I'm being slanderous in that post then you obviously have not seen my posts talking about the crap from Taylor Cutlery or United. I stand by what I say and I challenge anyone I have slandered to prove me wrong.
In fact, the Les Stroud Knives appear to be better than I thought they'd be. Unfortunately there were only mock ups at SHOT so I was unable to see the finished product but the specs sounded good. The reality is that I am not going to carry an overly bulky fixed blade with a sheath full of gadgets around all the time just in case the fan turns brown. I may keep it in a bug out bag, but if I have a bug out bag the it probably has the same stuff on the fancy sheath does, only in greater quantities. What I need to be able to survive with is what I have with me, which in many cases means a SAK and/or multitool.
I can be a lot more slanderous if you'd like though! >:)
Def
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
Hi DEF
I'm sure you can...lol.
Hope I don't get on the wrong side of you!! :oops:
TBH I care not a jot about L/S knives and if the truth be told I don't even know what a L/S knife looks like.
I was merely surprised that you were so blatantly and publically slating the guy's products. I've always assumed there to be some form of mutual protocol on forums where we all in general try to avoid potentially damaging or slanderous remarks. As with any purchase, we all have a choice of wether we buy or we don't buy. If enough people refuse to buy his product then he'll either go out of business or hopefully better still learn his lesson and "up his game" and relaunch a better product we do want to buy.
Given hindsight, maybe I shouldn't have posted my original comment - sorry if I've annoyed you in any way Def. I can always retract/alter the comment if you so wish.
Apologies :salute:
Tosh
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I don't think Def has a bad side Tosh. You'll find that in general this forum fosters an atmosphere that allows us to all be honest even if our opinions are negative towards a particular product.
This is the very best part of this forum.
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Ya this is one of the few forums where you can express strong opionions both good and bad, and not get bashed for it. Its nice! Like.. freedom!
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Not to worry Tosh- your comments are welcome here. As the other guys have said, I am happy to have folks express opinions no matter which direction they go.
Perhaps I didn't explain myself properly though. The specs on the Les Stroud knives make them sound like they will be decent knives, and I have yet to encounter one in person to alter that thought in any way. I only used them as an example of the types of knives that I have issues with, largely because it was a discussion Bob and I had after leaving the Camillus booth at SHOT. My issue is not with the abilities of the knives themselves, be they Bear Grylls knives, Les Stroud knives or just survival knives in general, it's with the concept that the "survival" is in the knife, not the person.
Some people will survive whether they have a survival knife or not. Others will not, even with the most expensive survival knife on the market. I don't like the idea that companies promote by offering survival type knives, and that if you buy that knife you'll be safe from anything. I think the money would be better spent on a case of freeze dried food and water purifiers, then depend on your SAK for any knife needs you may have.
Buying a special knife to keep you alive in SHTF type situations in my opinion is a waste of money- and in no way is aimed directly at Les Stroud, Bear Grylls, Ray Mears, Rambo or anyone else. Buying a good knife to have and use on a daily basis that you'll also have handy in case of a SHTF type situation makes a heck of a lot more sense.
That was my point. Although I will say this, the day the dump truck full of cash rolls up to my door, I guarantee you'll be seeing a Defender line of survival tools too. My integrity is important to me, but so are gold plated supermodels lounging by the pool. >:D
Def
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I did the whole rambo knife thing back in the 80's , it has stuck in my mind even to this day and still love tactical agressive looking sawback knives, but back then it was more free and easy and i think its all been done, for me i prefer a more solid type of knife or more uk pratical , these are my set ups,
does what i need,
(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff428/zed1970/P1010062-4.jpg)
(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff428/zed1970/P1010063-4.jpg)
(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff428/zed1970/P1010063-5.jpg)
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I did the whole rambo knife thing back in the 80's
:facepalm:
Pictures or it did not happen!!!
:D
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I did the whole rambo knife thing back in the 80's
:facepalm:
Pictures or it did not happen!!!
:D
:rofl: no pics mate , it was a secret group ;) amazing though that we ran around local woods with these knives, i had a huge bowie once i carried, oh to be young agian, and back to the 80's :D
this was one of my rambo knife of choice back in the 80's
(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff428/zed1970/P1010063-6.jpg)
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I miss the 80s, things were simpler and cooler then! I remember staring at an ad for the $10 rambo knife in a magazine then finally got my parents to order it for me... the blade snapped off in a week... The wire 'saw' also never made it through a single branch.
Def, if you do get a dump truck full of cash, be sure to post pics. :D
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There's nothing wrong with being a whore, just don't be a cheap whore.... this is the dump truck I'm expecting:
(http://prometheus.med.utah.edu/~bwjones/wp-content/uploads/iblog/Caterpillar%20mining%20truck.jpg)
No small bills.
Def
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I think the idea of a "survival" knife is futile. I can make a knife from anything. Rock, metal, sharpened stick will work in a pinch. You can have a backpack full of "survival" gear but without the knowledge to use it, it may as be filled with rocks :twak:
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Rocks could be useful. However, if it was filled with blue cheese I think I'd just give up there and then. Blue cheese is evil ... I might have mentioned that before :think: :P
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Here you go Al, have a nibble:
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy135/turnsouth/misc/17_Blue_cheese_after_2_mos_P5110355.jpg)
>:D
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Mmmm ahhhh bleu cheese ahhh mmm love it. I might send u some :evil: lol
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Grilled Blue Cheese :drool:
(http://i785.photobucket.com/albums/yy135/turnsouth/misc/buttery-grilled-sharp-cheddar-blue-cheese-sandwich.jpg)
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You see Grant, a big fixed blade knife is ESSENTIAL.
I'm far more likely to be able to deter someone wielding mould ridden filth like that, than with a Victorinox Farmer. Even if waving a 10" saw back bowie at them isn't scary enough to instantly scare them away, it may induce sufficient fear fuelled flatulence to mask the smell for a bit. I can't believe that fixed blade knives carry restrictions on where and when they can be used and carried in the UK, but blue cheese doesn't :think: In fact I believe UK laws actually includes the threat of blue cheese in the prescribed examples of when fixed blade knives and swords can be carried ... or if not, it should do
:whistle:
At least I have inbuilt security measures against such putrid evil, one whiff of that stuff and you'll think you've walked into an Exorcist movie ... but this time it's a hairy Yorkshireman with a strange taste in multitools whose head is spinning and emitting green slime at high velocities.
Pure unfettered evil that stuff!!! :mn:
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I am not big on blue cheese but Broccoli and Stilton soup was one of of my favourites :drool: in the UK... I am really annoyed I can not find it here....
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You see Grant, a big fixed blade knife is ESSENTIAL.
I'm far more likely to be able to deter someone wielding mould ridden filth like that, than with a Victorinox Farmer. Even if waving a 10" saw back bowie at them isn't scary enough to instantly scare them away, it may induce sufficient fear fuelled flatulence to mask the smell for a bit. I can't believe that fixed blade knives carry restrictions on where and when they can be used and carried in the UK, but blue cheese doesn't :think: In fact I believe UK laws actually includes the threat of blue cheese in the prescribed examples of when fixed blade knives and swords can be carried ... or if not, it should do
:whistle:
At least I have inbuilt security measures against such putrid evil, one whiff of that stuff and you'll think you've walked into an Exorcist movie ... but this time it's a hairy Yorkshireman with a strange taste in multitools whose head is spinning and emitting green slime at high velocities.
Pure unfettered evil that stuff!!! :mn:
So my meet-up shopping list consists of a jar of Marmite for Neil and a big block of stilton for you? Will do. :salute:
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So my meet-up shopping list consists of a jar of Marmite for Neil and a big block of stilton for you? Will do. :salute:
:rofl:
Pictures, there must be pictures!
:rofl:
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I am not big on blue cheese but Broccoli and Stilton soup was one of of my favourites :drool: in the UK... I am really annoyed I can not find it here....
Absolutely one of my favourite soups as well. :drool: They've even now started doing instant 'cup-a-soup' in broccoli and stilton, obviously not as nice as home made stuff but not bad either.
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Mmm! Bleu cheese! Yum!!! :drool:
When I was a kid, the first time I saw my mom buying Swiss cheese in the store I complained that we were getting ripped off because we had to pay for all those holes!
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The holes are the best part! :D
Def
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Back on topic, I've been thinking about getting a dedicated 'bushcraft' knife, and for now I think I'll reclaim my old Gerber Pro Guide from our camping kitchen gear. I'll pick up an Opie to replace it for the time being.
I really like some of the Condor bushcraft knives but no sense in spending money right now when I've already got something that will do the job.
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That makes perfect sense- having a knife that is designed for a specific purpose is fine. Unless of course you are buying a bushcraft knife so in case you accidentally find yourself camping you'll be able to construct shelters and peel bark for fire starting without ever having done any of it before... :pok:
Def
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I was watching a marathon of " Dual Survival " with Cody and Dave, so my curiosity got the best of me.I got on amazon to see Cody's books and low and behold there was his Mora 2 for $ 8.10 ! I think i would be a little leary of going into the woods with an 8 dollar knife IMHO. :-\
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Why not? It's a tried and tested design that thousands of people use every year in the great outdoors. :tu: These are great examples of the fact that cheap absolutely does not have to mean bad. :)
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Yup- Mora is one of the great deals in the knife industry. Much of the cost involved in knives is paying the engineers and designers to come up with new ways of making a blade/handle/lock seem new all the time. For Mora the design has pretty well been unchanged for 1,000 or so years so there's no design costs, and manufacturing has been streamlined over so many years that it's also pretty negligible.
As for new design cost, two guys in the factory arguing about putting a little more red dye in the plastic mix to create a new color doesn't cost much either. :P
Def
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I should have done some research before i said anything, its just that comparing other knives its just what i have found. Also , I am in the mindset of you get what you pay for. I am going to have to change my thinking. :twak:
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This may be worth a read:
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,35873.0.html (http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,35873.0.html)
(ignore the middle bits)
and this:
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,30224.msg510721.html#msg510721 (http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,30224.msg510721.html#msg510721)
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I used to be the same way about the Mora, first when I read Cody's book, and also when I would see all the praise for the knife from knife users (notice I said "users", not enthusiasts). I would think to myself "Why would I want a smurfy little knife in the woods?" I had bought into the "bigger is better", and "expensive must be better" fallacies throughout my life.
Two things changed my mind. First was that for all the knives that I had owned, I realized that all the time I had spent in the woods, the knife I used 99% of the time was an SAK. The second was when I finally bought a Mora, and held it in my hand, I came to understand that 1000 years of research and development in the hands of people who actually use a knife had produced a tool that while simplistic and inexpensive, nonetheless was one of the most usable knives I had ever owned.
It is something that is hard to explain until you have used one, there is almost a "Zen" quality to it, which is not totally surprising with the history it holds.
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I used to be the same way about the Mora, first when I read Cody's book, and also when I would see all the praise for the knife from knife users (notice I said "users", not enthusiasts). I would think to myself "Why would I want a smurfy little knife in the woods?" I had bought into the "bigger is better", and "expensive must be better" fallacies throughout my life.
Two things changed my mind. First was that for all the knives that I had owned, I realized that all the time I had spent in the woods, the knife I used 99% of the time was an SAK. The second was when I finally bought a Mora, and held it in my hand, I came to understand that 1000 years of research and development in the hands of people who actually use a knife had produced a tool that while simplistic and inexpensive, nonetheless was one of the most usable knives I had ever owned.
It is something that is hard to explain until you have used one, there is almost a "Zen" quality to it, which is not totally surprising with the history it holds.
+1 here. Mora's, SAK's ...... great values and excellent tools.
Mike
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I recently picked up the new clipper replacement the companion in SS and its a mazing value for money, i also have the old mora #1 and its a very nice nice, again highly recomended, :tu:
(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff428/zed1970/P1010064-4.jpg)
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OK , I am going to buy the book AND the knife. I will put it to the test.Its not the case where bigger is better but in my experience less expensive things are not as quality as higher priced items ie. rolex-timex,bmw-hyundai. Please do not take this as a snobish post. :)
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For the most part I agree, but there are always exceptions to the rule. In this case I believe that Moras and Opinels are great knives that are available at amazing prices.
Def
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My best survival and all purpose knife:Blackbird SK-5 and amazing sheath! :)
http://blackbirdknives.com/ (http://blackbirdknives.com/)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb394/PowerstrokeF350/7500Blackbirdknifeonly-web.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb394/PowerstrokeF350/H-AT-2.jpg)
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My best survival and all purpose knife:Blackbird SK-5 and amazing sheath! :)
http://blackbirdknives.com/ (http://blackbirdknives.com/)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb394/PowerstrokeF350/7500Blackbirdknifeonly-web.jpg)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb394/PowerstrokeF350/H-AT-2.jpg)
Wow! Those are both beauties! Where'd you get the sheath?
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...and does it still look that new? :D Very nice bit of kit BTW. :tu:
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...and does it still look that new? :D Very nice bit of kit BTW. :tu:
Yep that's very nice Vladim :drool:
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Very nice Vadim. :tu:
I was loving that handmade sheath until I saw that it was almost three times the price of the knife :ahhh
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date=1332909910]
Wow! Those are both beauties! Where'd you get the sheath?
Thank you Heinz Doofenshmirtz !
The knife and sheath I got from the Hedgehog guys: http://www.hedgehogleatherworks.com/default.asp (http://www.hedgehogleatherworks.com/default.asp)
Paul Scheiter Owner of Hedgehog Leatherworks design this knife and make a sheath for this knife.
The knife itself is so COMFORTABLE!The sheath is AMAZING LEATHERWORK!
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Very nice Vadim. :tu:
I was loving that handmade sheath until I saw that it was almost three times the price of the knife :ahhh
Thank you turnsouth!
Yeah,you right :) the sheath is so expensive but it worth every penny.
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Very nice Vadim. :tu:
I was loving that handmade sheath until I saw that it was almost three times the price of the knife :ahhh
Thank you turnsouth!
Yeah,you right :) the sheath is so expensive but it worth every penny.
Ouch! Just a bit out of my price range right now!
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I'm a fulltime knifemaker and make knives for the wilderness survival community, hunters and military. I think any knife, tool or folder can serve as a "survival" knife. Every survival situation is going to be different so to label a particular knife as a survival knife just doesn't work.
As far as camping, IMO, in the winter time the axe is king. I like to use big blades but it's more out of fun then necessity.
Scott
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@ S.Gossman
:pok: Pictures of your knives please
:D
Very nice Vadim. :tu:
I was loving that handmade sheath until I saw that it was almost three times the price of the knife :ahhh
Thank you turnsouth!
Yeah,you right :) the sheath is so expensive but it worth every penny.
:ahhh No one would be mad enough to spend more on a sheath than on the knife
:whistle:
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/sparky_415/Golok/220911007.jpg)
:facepalm:
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i was just about to start a topic on the issue of Sawbacks... but i think it best to just put it in here.
I blame the WWII pilot knifes. They actually work for metal, nails and random stuff you may need to deal with. The AK bayonets are also more of a early 'serrated edge' for rope and still cutting when 'blunt'
But somewhere along the line (i think it was Rambo) someone got the sawback as a woodsaw. I can honestly say i have never seen a woodsaw work properly ever. You can get them to work but exert way more effort than should be necessary for such a simple little thing.
Mostly they are on the back of too thick knives and/or have really sucky lengths that are measure in mere inches. Thats assuming the teeth are actually sharp and are (whats the word for it?) Offset??
A good example is this
(http://images.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/united/images/UC2779.jpg)
WTF!? a curved saw? with a D-guard? "But, we've added another great feature in the sawback serrations which allows users to make extremely accurate cuts for survival shelter building and other meticulous chores" :twak: :twak: :twak:
Has anyone here honestly used a sawback regularly with success??
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I'm with you on the sawbacks.
A saw should be slender as to remove the minimum amount of material, and ideally the teeth should be "set" (or at least the tooth be wider than the blade behind to prevent binding. The handle should also be comfortable oriented that way (and not have a knuckle guard in the way ::)
That said I have been tempted to try a gerber gator Jr with sawback ... just to see )
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If it is good enough for CROCODILE DUNDEE!!!!! Who can argue??
....and some more knives, for fun that can all be used for survival and some probably have.
from chinese Bowie to sword Bayonet...
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it should be noted that the idea of a sawback blade is nothing new, in the 19th they were common enough as issue to Engineers/Pioneers and were generally know as 'Pioneer's swords'.
(http://www.brlsi.org/sites/all/files/imagecache/weaponry-lrg/EW015-Sword_Pioneer_650.jpg)
(http://www.kwsantiques.de/bilder/edged/c194.jpg)
can't say how well they worked though. :D
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Just got caught up on this thread.
Yes, I owned a 'molecular steel survival knife' in the 80's. Mine was camo. Don't ask for picks, it's long gone. It taught me a lot... mostly what the word 'tang' means when applied to knives... that the stupid thing on the back does NOT work as a saw, that the wire saw breaks when you unfold it the first time, that you don't make folding portions of sheaths out of plastic that is prone to splitting... probably the best $10 lesson i was ever given, really.
Next: I like bleu cheese. I like gorgonzola most of that type, I think.
As for 'get what you paid for'... I am constantly on the lookout for exceptionally good gear at good prices. You find such deals in really strange places. If I were more into outdoor stuff, I'd have a Mora.
I almost hate to bring it up, but ever since seeing it, I've been wondering about folks' opinion of the Cold Steel Bushman. At about $20, one-piece construction... any thoughts? Yes, dammit, I admit it, I think it's cool that you can use it as a spear point!
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I have had several Bushmans (Bushmen?) and they are great knives for the money. The reason I have gone through so many is that every time I get someone someone sees it and wants it and I lose it.
It's not A Chris Reeve Aviator, but it is a pretty nice knife for $20.
Def
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I once read a Aitor Jungle king review where the author brought up the issue of hollow handles vs full tang, and he made a compelling point. According to him he had read/seen/witnessed (going from memory) a poor amazonian indian peform a whole lot of daily tasks with his one 'knife' the broken off shard of a nameless machete.
His point was that the knife was a tool to make other tools and you really should be using it in a manner that breaks anyway... and if you do break it in a survival situation you aren't exactly 'without a knife' as the indian proved.
I'm still a fan of full tang regardless but it is food for thought. I do have an aitor china clone and i have to say as a blade i am impressed. i use it as a digging impliment mostly for roots etc. I bought it mainly for the little skinner and the actual sheath.
I've also been wanting the bushman for the sole purpose of a spearhead, i have been convincing myself its the saner option to the boar spear since postage to australia is really expensive. The reality though is i'm years away from the oppotunity of hunting with a spear and if armageddon does occur i think i could realistically fashion something from local materials. Maybe i should stop spending money so i'm a better financial position to spend money :rofl:
But for argument sake... which would be the better bushman blade profile for a spear and can anyone find actual evidence on the net of someone using one sucessfully? A bit like when people saying the magnifying glass on swiss army knife will give you fire... i have yet to achieve it on the thinnest tissue paper!
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Envirosponsible's youtube video of the Bushman as a spear. One of the things that made me think this might be useful...
Cold Steel Bushman Spear - Demonstration & Review (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sp3EWhSpXc#ws)
There are additional videos by the same guy where he uses it for batoning, etc.
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i both hate yound love you for posting that youtube video... i need to learn how to embed videos on this forum
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I'd love to help you with my technical wizardry in how to embed videos, but I just pasted the URL in between the hyperlink tabs, and it did the magic all on its own.
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I'd love to help you with my technical wizardry in how to embed videos, but I just pasted the URL in between the hyperlink tabs, and it did the magic all on its own.
Yes, for youtube videos, I too, found by accident that they seem to embed themselves automatically.
for non youtube videos i have not managed to work it out.
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I made a handle for a stick chopper which was smooth like the bushman
I found that your hand gets tired after a while as you have to grip it tighter to stop it twisting in your hand :(
So I think that its really a spear that you can use as a knife...... or maybe it needs a good wrap around the handle? :pommel:
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I'd love to help you with my technical wizardry in how to embed videos, but I just pasted the URL in between the hyperlink tabs, and it did the magic all on its own.
Yes, for youtube videos, I too, found by accident that they seem to embed themselves automatically.
for non youtube videos i have not managed to work it out.
You used to have to put in Youtube tags, but now you just paste the link and it gets embedded automatically.
Def
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I made a handle for a stick chopper which was smooth like the bushman
I found that your hand gets tired after a while as you have to grip it tighter to stop it twisting in your hand :(
So I think that its really a spear that you can use as a knife...... or maybe it needs a good wrap around the handle? :pommel:
i have the bowie and standard version of the bushman and you need to use a light ring grip on it like with a khukhri. Nice light knife, but first task in a survival situation (or where extensive woodcraft is required) would be to fashion a wooden extension for the handl to move the weight forward. I dug holes with it for tarp stakes at the last meet, and a quick flick with a steel and it was good to go again. A nice light back up blade for when you don't expect to need a big blade but want to be prepared anyway or feel you need a spare. Used within it's limits and with knowledge of how to get the most out of it, you'll struggle to find a stronger and more capable knife for the weight penalty
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but which one makes the better spear??
Staight blade or bowie???
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I made a handle for a stick chopper which was smooth like the bushman
I found that your hand gets tired after a while as you have to grip it tighter to stop it twisting in your hand :(
So I think that its really a spear that you can use as a knife...... or maybe it needs a good wrap around the handle? :pommel:
i have the bowie and standard version of the bushman and you need to use a light ring grip on it like with a khukhri. Nice light knife, but first task in a survival situation (or where extensive woodcraft is required) would be to fashion a wooden extension for the handl to move the weight forward. I dug holes with it for tarp stakes at the last meet, and a quick flick with a steel and it was good to go again. A nice light back up blade for when you don't expect to need a big blade but want to be prepared anyway or feel you need a spare. Used within it's limits and with knowledge of how to get the most out of it, you'll struggle to find a stronger and more capable knife for the weight penalty
Al,
I'm not bashing it just because its Cold Steel I actually like quite a lot of their stuff IE their Kukri :drool:
Its just that as I get older I want my tools to fit in my hand better, I just feel like its lacking something :think:
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I made a handle for a stick chopper which was smooth like the bushman
I found that your hand gets tired after a while as you have to grip it tighter to stop it twisting in your hand :(
So I think that its really a spear that you can use as a knife...... or maybe it needs a good wrap around the handle? :pommel:
i have the bowie and standard version of the bushman and you need to use a light ring grip on it like with a khukhri. Nice light knife, but first task in a survival situation (or where extensive woodcraft is required) would be to fashion a wooden extension for the handl to move the weight forward. I dug holes with it for tarp stakes at the last meet, and a quick flick with a steel and it was good to go again. A nice light back up blade for when you don't expect to need a big blade but want to be prepared anyway or feel you need a spare. Used within it's limits and with knowledge of how to get the most out of it, you'll struggle to find a stronger and more capable knife for the weight penalty
Al,
I'm not bashing it just because its Cold Steel I actually like quite a lot of their stuff IE their Kukri :drool:
Its just that as I get older I want my tools to fit in my hand better, I just feel like its lacking something :think:
totally agree mate, it is lacking something ... A wooden handle extension :-D
i wouldn't call them a primary knife for any situation, but as a backup I think it's a good choice. I reckon the standard blade would make the better spear
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Blackbird SK-5 as a spear. :)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb394/PowerstrokeF350/spear-lashing.jpg)
A more information How to Choose the Perfect Survival Knife: http://artofmanliness.com/2011/11/29/how-to-choose-the-perfect-survival-knife/ (http://artofmanliness.com/2011/11/29/how-to-choose-the-perfect-survival-knife/)
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totally agree mate, it is lacking something ... A wooden handle extension :-D
:salute: :D
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Blackbird SK-5 as a spear. :)
(http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb394/PowerstrokeF350/spear-lashing.jpg)
A more information How to Choose the Perfect Survival Knife: http://artofmanliness.com/2011/11/29/how-to-choose-the-perfect-survival-knife/ (http://artofmanliness.com/2011/11/29/how-to-choose-the-perfect-survival-knife/)
In general attaching a knife on the end of a stick as a spear is not really a good idea.
Because if you stick into an animal and said animal runs off into the wilderness with your spear, you have no knife. It also possible that you macho thrusting movements hit rock and other hard option... no good for edges or tips. much better to simply sharpen the stick so its nice and pointy, harden it in afire, use bone or scrap metal as an alternative. If it breaks after killing the animal so be it... make another one
Times when attaching a knife to a stick is a good idea
- cut folage and vines out of reach
- To harvest fruit/nuts/etc out of reach
- To steal honeycombs (saw david canterbury do that
- To finish off a 'trapped' critter, you may have successfully snared a pig/weasel/kangaroo/large-lizard but adding a bit of reach to your mercy kill is a good idea... even small animal wounds can turn septic and get infected (argubly a sharp stick would work here too...)
Having a dedicated knife only for spear work like the CS bushman is a different matter. That more of a dedicated spear head than a knife (Although for now i am going to be
stronga and save up for an actual CS boar spear)
Today i went round neard the nature strip and fashioned a gaff/harpoon spear from bamboo with nothing but a CS shovel :tu:
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Because if you stick into an animal and said animal runs off into the wilderness with your spear, you have no knife.:tu:
Thats why I have two Blackbirds SK-5 knives :tu: :D ;)
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I find the Condor bushcraft knives very appealing. While more expensive than a Mora, I like that they have thicker blades and come with a very nice leather sheath, and are available in several different sizes. The Rodan and Varan are the two I like best.
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I feel there are many great options out there for "Survival Knives" but I really like what Charles Karwan always said on the subgect myself..
I admit to having a Buckmaster..My Youngest decided after aquiring it during my "Paring Down of the Blades"he liked his Gerber BMF better..I have used it out and about and have found it to be rather sturdy..Would it be my first choice? I doubt it,but I beleive there are a few good Hollow Handled Knives available..
I believe and look at the hollow handle as holding a last ditch "OMG I have lost everything Except the Clothes on my Back and my Buckmaster Kit"...
Just my two cents
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I wonder if Condor is like Tramotina. I don't own any tramotina simply because i found you can buy them cheaper internationally than locally in brazil. (At least in rio de janeiro, if you made a special trip into the city you may find it cheaper)
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There are just so many variables , seasons , areas . Leaving electronics out of it for the moment ( not being a total fool I would use if available ) , something like a Spirit or a Farmer plus my GB hatchet would be my choice , if possible I would try to stash a redundant or two in my pack .
In an Urban scenario , a stout folder, and a SAK or multi would be my choice .
Just too many variables to make any hard and fast rules .
Chris
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Of all the "survival" knives(fived blade) I've ecountered. The best, for its price, is the Cold Steel Bushman series!! :tu:
Those things are CRAZY SHARPE!!!!!
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I know a lot of folks don't like Cold Steel, and I know the Bushman is really not a premium model, but dollar for dollar I think you would be very hard pressed to come up with a better knife than the Bushman.
Def
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I know a lot of folks don't like Cold Steel, and I know the Bushman is really not a premium model, but dollar for dollar I think you would be very hard pressed to come up with a better knife than the Bushman.
Def
It's worth every penny!! :tu:
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The bushman is tempered very soft so it wouldn't break when used as spear, CS does have a couple other models around the same price, though I don't know if they are any harder.
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The bushman is tempered very soft so it wouldn't break when used as spear, CS does have a couple other models around the same price, though I don't know if they are any harder.
Why would you need it harder? what task requires it to be so ridgid??? ???
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The bushman is tempered very soft so it wouldn't break when used as spear, CS does have a couple other models around the same price, though I don't know if they are any harder.
Why would you need it harder? what task requires it to be so ridgid??? ???
Softer steels dull faster.
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The bushman is tempered very soft so it wouldn't break when used as spear, CS does have a couple other models around the same price, though I don't know if they are any harder.
Why would you need it harder? what task requires it to be so ridgid??? ???
Softer steels dull faster.
But easier to resharpen!!
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A friend of mine who is heavily involved in Scouting purchased a few a ways back as utility knifes for Camp outs and Such..He has nothing but praise for them starting with cost!
Myself, I also look at my Estwing Hunter's Hatchet as a "Survival Knife"..I keep it hair shaving sharp and have found out with a bit of patience and care it will substitute nicely especially if paired with a decent SAK or Folder for the really detailed work..Just last week I peeled a bunch of Potatoes with the Estwing...It was not pretty but it got done
and I guess that is all that really matters if things have suddenly gone south
Dtrain
Dtrain
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:think: :think:
I guess thats why i'm in the machete camp in the axe-vs-machete armchair wars. Knife tasks are little more 'plausible'
i did had a rabbit trap setters hatchet when i was young that i found in the old shed of house we bought. Loved it. Sleek little blade profile, light and had a hammer/pry on the reverse. Wouldn't mind pimping one out if i found one for penuts.
Truth is though i much prefer my twelve inch 'Facão' (downsized from eighteen, sounds dirty doesn't it) The reality though is if i'm stuck somewhere i will more likely have my CS Shovel. Been quite happy with its capabilities
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:think: :think:
I guess thats why i'm in the machete camp in the axe-vs-machete armchair wars. Knife tasks are little more 'plausible'
i did had a rabbit trap setters hatchet when i was young that i found in the old shed of house we bought. Loved it. Sleek little blade profile, light and had a hammer/pry on the reverse. Wouldn't mind pimping one out if i found one for penuts.
Truth is though i much prefer my twelve inch 'Facão' (downsized from eighteen, sounds dirty doesn't it) The reality though is if i'm stuck somewhere i will more likely have my CS Shovel. Been quite happy with its capabilities
I've been having a similar debate with myself for a while, and took a few different options to the UK meet to play with. The Cold Steel Shovel does throw well and stick in logs quite deep, but you need to carry round a Scottish forum moderator to throw it for you. As regards other functions I didn't like using it as an axe as whilst it bit deep it also announced its work quite loudly and stuck in the wood on every swing.
I have been an axe fan for a while now and could use a Gransfors Bruks Wildlife Hatchet for many knife tasks. I also took a Vaughan Mini Hatchet which provoked great swathes of laughter and earned itself the nickname of "Baby's First Axe". As a knife it's an ulu on a stick, and reasonably capable for light tasks. It'll handle making tent pegs quite comfortably, but you'd certainly want something heavier duty to process an evenings firewood ideally. With knowledge, care and attention it is capable of heavier tasks though, and googling "old jimbo" will eventually lead you to a HUGE trunk of knotty hemlock he split with one ... just for the sake of it I think. I've had the Wildlife Hatchet and Vaughan Mini for a while now and like them both
The Chris Caine Survival Tool was VERY impressive, and worked BETTER than the Wildlife Hatchet for splitting and chopping. It was very good for cross cut battoning too, which makes splitting easier afterwards. The downside is that your hands and forearms do feel it after a bit of use, and I gave it quite a bit of hammer. Extended use with an axe would be less draining on the hand and arm ... but might take longer too. For carving etc it was large but reasonably well balanced, though it could do with the edge refining a little (or maybe just more practice) and the potential was certainly there for using as a drawknife and even a skinning knife, even though I was only debarking wood to get that appreciation. The back edge would do great if you needed a blunt instrument for smashing something (though I refrained on the ostrich egg as it would have gotten VERY messy). Would I carry it as a primary survival tool? Not unless I was expecting to NEED a super dooper fandango parang type knife. It's a GREAT tool, and it will get lots of work wood processing, but for firewood at the boat or when heavy brutal "gardening" tasks are needed. It's a tool for being static with rather than mobile, unless you're traversing a jungle or such like in my opinion.
The Anton De Plessis Warthog, also by Scorpion Knives was (to me) a far better knife for when mobile. Very ergonomic and durable, and a very good "compromise" between weight size and functionality. There's been a lot of thought gone into that item and it was very well made (as was the CC Survival Tool in my opinion)
A traditional Leuku was less impressive. Saami knives have been used for centuries in Scandinavia, and are proven tools for doing ... well, whatever needs doing really. It didn't fail at anything, and I found it very comfortable (but others didn't share my thoughts on that) however it didn't perform as well as the two Sheffield made knives - at least on the tasks I was attempting. It is actually a "piggyback" combo set with a smaller Puukko, but I felt that the Warthog was a perfect alternative to that pairing ... plus smaller and at not much more cost
I also decided it was time to get my Muela stag handled Jabali 17A dirty which I've had for a number of years. It's been sat nicely in it's sheath, inside the box, glittering when the urge to ogle arises ... but it was time to get vicious with it. With all the adverse comments you get about 400 series stainlesses from today's premium steel fans, I wasn't expecting too much from it, but what a bloody great knife! It chopped (though not heavily due to the modest blade length) and I crosscut battonned it through some pretty chunky and hard material, and the blade was still perfectly sharp enough for tent peg tasks after. When you remember that today's 400 series steels (depending on the steel mill and subsequent treatments) are WAY superior to the steels our ancestors were using, we really didn't ought to whine about them at all. If for any reason they do fail, I'd say 9/10 times it's the operator that failed to use the knife in line with sensible expectations rather than a failure of the tool.
Cold Steel Bushman ... took two but didn't use them as I've used them plenty before. Good backup tools - not for primary knife selection though. They'll do everything the others will but slower and with compromised comfort. If you're going to only take one big knife into whatever arena you're considering, the Bushman is probably not the one to take unless weight is a major restriction. If you're thinking of taking a second knife as back up, then I'd suggest that one of the Bushman (standard or Bowie) will do very nicely if you know how to glean the rewards from using it and work through the compromises. Great secondary tool.
None of these tools could be replaced by a SAK or multitool, but would be very well complimented by one. I'd still want my Bahco Laplander on me too if I was expecting to do any form of wood processing. Any of the knives and axes I've mentioned here would be excellent survival tools in the right hands, accompanied by the right knowledge. They'd only fill that role if you had them when you needed them though.
If I expected to be mobile and need wood processing I'd probably go for the Anton De Plessis Warthog or Wildlife Hatchet combined with a Laplander saw and multitool. If I was on a long hike and didn't expect to be doing processing unless the SHTF, I might take the Cold Steel Shovel. The Chris Caine Tool is a superb yard, wood stove, heavy landscaping, jungle tool ... but if I was at the boat and things went wrong, or even at home and things went wrong I might be very happy to have that with me. The Muela is still a bit too pretty to be primary but would work perfectly well (surprisingly well truth be told), and I'd also be happy with a Bushman in reserve. The biggest disappointment for me was the Leuku, which has been a mainstay primary tool for tribesmen and nomadic families for many many years. It wasn't that the Leuku was bad in any way whatsoever, but the others outperformed it on the day with the tasks undertaken
All the premium steel fanboys can keep their overpriced tripe. Give me a decent simple easy to sharpen blade any day. The ingredients, compositions and structure of the blade are far less important that the ingredients, composition and structure of the mind of the user anyway. I'll probably redo this write up with piccies on a separate thread at some point, but hopefully there's some useful info for folks in there as it is for now.
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Remember, the Leuku isn't designed for chopping trees. In the core area of the Leuku, a big tree is still lower than yourself. :)
A Leuku is for the reindeer guys, people living in or near the Taiga and similar forests use a Puukko or a tollekniv combined with an axe instead.
Oh, and I just have to add my standard rant: Premium steel today usually means “highly abrasion resistant, and brittle as hell”, which really isn't what I'm personally looking for in a survival-ish knife. The hard use knives I own which I trust are made in A8-mod.
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Forgot to mention the MOD knife too (mine, not the one from the passaround, that's still MIA ::) ) and I can see why that's issued to UK squaddies. It will cut, dig, hammer, smash, chop, pry and baton. It's ugly, rough, brutal, and brilliant.
Chrissy had a lovely little ESSE knife at the meet, and I wasn't going to ask to give that the same abuse I gave the others. That said from the grief I gave those knives this weekend I would be just as happy to be sporting one of the local creations as another guy over the pond would be with some of the "bigger" named items. I might have had to dig deep to get the tools I did - but worth every penny as far as I'm concerned
Going back to the original point of a SAK or multitool being favourable over a big knife/axe in a survival situation, I think I'd definitely want both. Fire, flood, earthquake, riot or lost "outdoors", I can see real potential for these large brutal tools beyond their ability to cut. I am still a fan of the axe and hatchet, but this weekend I decided that the sharpened prybar certainly his a role to play too
Remember, the Leuku isn't designed for chopping trees. In the core area of the Leuku, a big tree is still lower than yourself. :)
A Leuku is for the reindeer guys, people living in or near the Taiga and similar forests use a Puukko or a tollekniv combined with an axe instead.
Oh, and I just have to add my standard rant: Premium steel today usually means “highly abrasion resistant, and brittle as hell”, which really isn't what I'm personally looking for in a survival-ish knife. The hard use knives I own which I trust are made in A8-mod.
I wasn't felling a mighty oak ;) though I will of course confess that it wasn't in it's "natural habitat" :D Like I said, it worked - but from what I saw the other options would have been strong doing Leuku tasks too which I would imagive is chopping through bone, skinning, harvesting natural materials etc.
I'm with you 100% on the brittle factor :tu:
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I've been having a similar debate with myself for a while, and took a few different options to the UK meet to play with. The Cold Steel Shovel does throw well and stick in logs quite deep, but you need to carry round a Scottish forum moderator to throw it for you. As regards other functions I didn't like using it as an axe as whilst it bit deep it also announced its work quite loudly and stuck in the wood on every swing.
I laughed hard and then thought 'you dont need to carry him... just put him on a leash and use him to carry your items' (or learn to throw, i dont want to risk breaking my handle as post is expensive part)
i think you may just need to adjust your angle wider and use less force with the swing. It also makes a difference if you have curve up or down with swing... i always have shovel curved down never had it 'stuck'
Recently i went round to the nature reserve with my kabar becker bk11, baton through 4 cm thick bamboo and fashioned a 'Gaff' spear. it was crude but it worked. Sharpened the tips nicely. Several days later i took the CS shovel to attack the other bamboo. With one light and effortless samurai guided swing it parted cleaner than any axe could. It also removed all the nubs and leaves with ease. The sharpening of the points was tricky.
I have yet to use it as a shovel (or a oar/paddle)
I have travelled a bit with a machete. its a pain that in most areas the extra effort of concealing it in a pack, getting in the way of trying to fish things out without exposing the machete. Even in regions that locals have them freely exposed i don't 'wear 'mine as i know i'm a foreigner and how it looks. Bad to the police and 'trying to fit in as rambo' to the locals.
Thats why i'm infatuated with the CS shovel. I can walk around with it and no one thinks 'OMG! :ahhh OMG!!!! :ahhh' Latest one was when i went rock climbing at site near a local beach. It involved a 400m+ trek along sand, rocks and scrub to the rockface. The beach carpark and shops is full of families enjoying the beach. Its an area of the 'affluent' who think things like the actual knife laws themselves keep them safe from harm.
It is amazing how many 'survival knives' designed by professionals. No two quite alike. Unsuprising since everyone of them come from different field, enviroments and topography. What i have noticed is that in most cases people who actually live in infrastructureless remote jungles, deserts and misc. rural regions use the knife they got. Usually the equivalent cheap carbon steel kitchen knife made by the prominent cutlery supplier of that region.
Also why is the scenario always 'you only got your knife' The only time i can see that actually happening to me is in a commercial airplain crash (rare) in which case i wont have it! In any of instance i'd probably entering have at a minimum a SAK and light fixed blade (becker bk11) to supplement my CS Shovel/12"machete.
Another way of looking at it is why must i have a thick heavy 9" plus blade to do ALL-THE-TASKS-ADEQUATELY when i can have the same weight on a single SECURE sheath with several small items that will peform each task superbly.
Ah but what if you can only hold one thing and the rest of your gear sweeps away!?!?!?!? Thats just plain retarded, if you a drowning in a river, falling over a cliff edge, fleeing gunfire in the streets etc etc you will be using BOTH your hands as the urgency overides the 'hey, hold on to this cause you will need it later' I have at times dumped small bare bladed knives into cargo & back pockets for a short period of time... not doing that with the run of the mill crocodile dundee bowie. Plus a sak on a carebiner clipped to my pants is more likely to be unobstructibly there than the clanking gladius swinging off my hip/belt/shoulderstrap.
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I laughed hard and then thought 'you dont need to carry him... just put him on a leash and use him to carry your items' (or learn to throw, i dont want to risk breaking my handle as post is expensive part)
:rofl: I'll let you suggest that idea to him :P
I tried the shovel all ways round, and again same result. It would get you out of a fix, but it wouldn't be first choice if I knew wood processing was needed. I pretty much agree with the rest though :tu:
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I really liked your Chris Cane tool Al and thanks for letting us play with it :salute:
I would sleep with it under my pillow :dd:
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The bushman is tempered very soft so it wouldn't break when used as spear, CS does have a couple other models around the same price, though I don't know if they are any harder.
Why would you need it harder? what task requires it to be so ridgid??? ???
Softer steels dull faster.
But easier to resharpen!!
To a point, bushman is on the too soft side. I tried chop a gatoraid bottle with one, bottle went flying and edge rolled from hitting plastic just once.
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I laughed hard and then thought 'you dont need to carry him... just put him on a leash and use him to carry your items' (or learn to throw, i dont want to risk breaking my handle as post is expensive part)
:rofl: I'll let you suggest that idea to him :P
I tried the shovel all ways round, and again same result. It would get you out of a fix, but it wouldn't be first choice if I knew wood processing was needed. I pretty much agree with the rest though :tu:
Ahem. I am reading this thread you know. >:(
;)
I also recall that you got an excellent throw and stick just after I did. :pok:
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Ahem. I am reading this thread you know. >:(
No respect nowadays mate.... :facepalm:
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:oops: :D :D :D
I ought to just point out for anyone going ::) ::) the throwing was (of course) just for a bit of a giggle, and no I wouldn't advocate throwing ANY tools for any reason in a real scenario ;)
I think out of the tools I used that day (and I'll include the Bushman from previous experience), here's how I'd rank them for chopping/splitting and general versatility:
- Chris Caine Survival Tool
- Gransfors Bruks Wildlife Hatchet
- Anton De Plessis Warthog
- J Adams MOD Survival Knife
- Muela Jabali 17A
- Traditional Leuku
- Cold Steel Shovel
- Cold Steel Bushman
- Vaughan Mini
The list is VERY subjective (to the events and impressions of the day) so shouldn't be taken as a literal performance guide for all scenarios. Also, if I was out on a hike in the outdoors there's more chance of me having the CS shovel on me due to the less threatening nature, or the Bushman due to capability/weight ratio. I'd like to add the Warthog or MOD knife, but the weight would probably put me off them unless I knew I'd be woods camping ... in which case I'd almost certainly have a Bahco Laplander over ANY chopping tool. I wouldn't want anything heavier than an MOD knife without a VERY good reason
... and yes, I'd probably have a SAK or even pliers based multitool too ... but I certainly wouldn't want to be reliant on the included saws. OK for canes in the garden or little "project" work, but I certainly wouldn't want to try and survive with one any more than I'd want to do the same with just a 4" drop point blade. Anything is better than nothing when you need it though
:whistle:
After experiencing the performance of ALL these knives/tools, I personally (and yes, I know I will buck the trend here) am not tempted for any of the premium steels or prestigious names like Fallkniven. I'd just be frightened of breaking/losing it or being unable to maintain it when things get ugly. ESSE's gear does look very good though I must say (well designed, well made and using sensible materials) ... it's just I'm not sure their gear would do anything better than my existing options, or better enough to buy one over here :-\
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The bushman is tempered very soft so it wouldn't break when used as spear, CS does have a couple other models around the same price, though I don't know if they are any harder.
Why would you need it harder? what task requires it to be so ridgid??? ???
Softer steels dull faster.
But easier to resharpen!!
To a point, bushman is on the too soft side. I tried chop a gatoraid bottle with one, bottle went flying and edge rolled from hitting plastic just once.
Usually I just twist off the cap. :pok:
It's great to see what everyone thinks about survival knives and survival in general. Some good points have been brought up and I'm really enjoying reading everyone's thoughts so far!
Def
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Wood processing is a new concept to me. I always strive to gather branches and logs on the ground. If they are to big to lift than they aren't worth the effort. Usualy one or two long logs is enough for me and as the night wears i push them in further and further. If its wrist thick than its worth havesting from a dead tree. Much bigger than that i ain't touching it. I have always found wood to be abundant if you look. Maybe this would change if i did any extensive outdoor stuff in significantly colder climates.
I also shy away from wonderknives, i just don't see the appeal of falkniven etc I will say i still am a production snob though as i prefer almost anything of a china steel USA. The ESEE, Busse etc neck knives are the exception but thats more a case of size, shape and function.
I am confused about the the gatorade bottle test. Wouldn't you just hold it and slice it? I think the tensile strength in the plastic and the elasticity don't reflect wood or meat very well. Could it also be your blade or have you had the opportunity to test others. A lot of review comment the factory edge is good and holds up to many task.
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Wood processing is a new concept to me. I always strive to gather branches and logs on the ground. If they are to big to lift than they aren't worth the effort. Usualy one or two long logs is enough for me and as the night wears i push them in further and further. If its wrist thick than its worth havesting from a dead tree. Much bigger than that i ain't touching it. I have always found wood to be abundant if you look. Maybe this would change if i did any extensive outdoor stuff in significantly colder climates.
I also shy away from wonderknives, i just don't see the appeal of falkniven etc I will say i still am a production snob though as i prefer almost anything of a china steel USA. The ESEE, Busse etc neck knives are the exception but thats more a case of size, shape and function.
I am confused about the the gatorade bottle test. Wouldn't you just hold it and slice it? I think the tensile strength in the plastic and the elasticity don't reflect wood or meat very well. Could it also be your blade or have you had the opportunity to test others. A lot of review comment the factory edge is good and holds up to many task.
It ain't the cold ... it's the wet
I tried doing the star fire (feed big log in) technique on my stove but couldn't get the door shut :P I have actually done that though. There were a few of us in a bothy on an uninhabited island on the Outer Hebrides in Scotland. There's no trees there, so the only fuel supply was driftwood and we just had bushcraft type knives :-\
We managed to get enough processed wood together to get a fire going, but then had to feed in what looked like an old sailing mast we'd found as we had no axes and saws, and dropping boulders on it had failed to smash it into bite sized pieces. We'd have been in for a long cold night otherwise
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It ain't the cold ... it's the wet
That sums it it nicely. Certainly here in Scotland the chances of finding 100% dry, easy to burn wood is not to be relied on. Being able to split wood means you are far more likely to be able to produce an easily maintained, bright, hot fire at any time of the year and in almost any weather conditions.
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I've always fancied these, http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SWEDFNBA1/fallkniven-ba1-swedish-a1-survival-knife (http://www.knifecenter.com/item/SWEDFNBA1/fallkniven-ba1-swedish-a1-survival-knife)
I want to make a few up with orange textured G10 scales and titanium bolsters in a nice orange Kydex sheath for the ultimate bushcraft knife.
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Also why is the scenario always 'you only got your knife' The only time i can see that actually happening to me is in a commercial airplain crash (rare) in which case i wont have it! In any of instance i'd probably entering have at a minimum a SAK and light fixed blade (becker bk11) to supplement my CS Shovel/12"machete.
Not always, Ray Mears, one of the very few sane survival guys on TV IMHO, uses the scenario “only what you got on your person”, not “only your knife”, which is why he always stresses one should always carry a knife and a way to light a fire on your person. This to cover the kind of scenario you mention, where e.g. a boat capsizes and the rest of the gear is swept away with the boat. Which means most of the people here should use the scenario “you only got your multitool, three knives, four flashlights, a signal flare, a bic, a fire steel, a knife sharpener, an emergency transmitter, a water purifying kit, a first aid kit, a magnesium bar, a mobile phone (of course in a water proof bag or box), a survival blanket and a chocolate”. ::)
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It also depends on what's available and where you are.
In the Sierras in California, in places where you can gather dead and downed wood, and/or in places that are heavily trafficked, there's often little if any small stuff easily available. That necessitates chopping and splitting. In fact, simply by bringing my axe and saw, I can make use of stuff that few other people can.
I've used a 21" Sven Saw for the past several years, but it's finally giving up the ghost... even with a new blade it's fatigued enough that it's just too flexy and it's hard to cut a straight kerf with. This summer I'll be getting a new Trailblazer take-down buck saw. :D I'm really looking forward to it.
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It also depends on what's available and where you are.
In the Sierras in California...
I remember the last time I went camping in the Sierras. It was a Memorial Day weekend, and we were up from Sonora, I think it was near Stanislaus National Forest. We went to sleep in 60 degree weather in the rain, and woke up the next morning covered with 8 inches of snow.
It got so cold that the dog crawled into the sleeping bag between me and the wife :) By the time we got packed up and down by Sonora, it was 80 degrees again. Had a nice breakfast in a little place off of 49. Really good food :tu:
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It also depends on what's available and where you are.
In the Sierras in California...
I remember the last time I went camping in the Sierras. It was a Memorial Day weekend, and we were up from Sonora, I think it was near Stanislaus National Forest. We went to sleep in 60 degree weather in the rain, and woke up the next morning covered with 8 inches of snow.
It got so cold that the dog crawled into the sleeping bag between me and the wife :) By the time we got packed up and down by Sonora, it was 80 degrees again. Had a nice breakfast in a little place off of 49. Really good food :tu:
Can't think of any place I've ever been as beautiful as the Sierras. The Durango area in CO comes close, but the forests there aren't as thick and nice as in CA. If I had to pick one place to live the rest of my life, and I couldn't ever move anywhere else, I'd choose somewhere in the central to northern Sierras... somewhere north of Yosemite, and south of Lassen. I sure wouldn't mind Lassen... a whole lot less crowded than Yosemite, that's for certain!
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I sure wouldn't mind Lassen... a whole lot less crowded than Yosemite, that's for certain!
I'm a state/national park/forest junkie. We try to visit one every time we travel, and the only one that ever disappointed me was Yosemite, at least the main visitor part. I mean with the roads going right through the narrow valley, it was so disappointing to hike along and hear car after car going by. Yep, there is nothing like bumper to bumper traffic to take the majesty out a place.
Never got up to Lassen, looks beautiful, maybe someday... :dd:
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I sure wouldn't mind Lassen... a whole lot less crowded than Yosemite, that's for certain!
I'm a state/national park/forest junkie. We try to visit one every time we travel, and the only one that ever disappointed me was Yosemite, at least the main visitor part. I mean with the roads going right through the narrow valley, it was so disappointing to hike along and hear car after car going by. Yep, there is nothing like bumper to bumper traffic to take the majesty out a place.
Never got up to Lassen, looks beautiful, maybe someday... :dd:
Yosemite in the summer $ucks major a$$... I've seen people wait in line at a shuttle stop longer than it would take them to make the walk! Particularly something short like Curry Village to the Visitor Center, or to Happy Isles. Lazy smurf-tards! :rant: Like you said, add to that the traffic, noise, etc. (they're getting SMOG in the valley in the summers sometimes now!) it's just not worth it. We never go any time between April and Sept. anymore. Now it's only in late fall through early spring we even set foot in the place anymore.
Lassen is, in a word, awesome. It's not as tall as Shasta, but it's got a lot more trails, nicer camp grounds, and is a more family friendly place. That's important to my wife and I since we've got two kids. She and I have also done a day hike all the way up to the caldera and back... it's mind blowing... Lassen isn't actually extinct, it's just dormant, so there are actual hot springs and mineral pools there. You can't go in them, but it's still really cool to hike around them and check them out. Shasta gets croweded in the summer, which is another suckage issue, and why we prefer Lassen.
If you ever get the chance, you should check out Lava Beds National Monument too. It's a bit of a drive from where we live in the Bay Area, as it's just a stone's throw from the OR border, but it's an awesome place. Fantastic stargazing there. We did our first caving there last summer, and now I can't wait to go back. I'm interested in doing more caving now too because of it. Also a very cool place to be because even in the middle of summer there's not a lot of crowds there.
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I haven't gone to a ton of national parks, but one I loved and almost never hear mentioned is Pictured Rocks National Lakeshore in Michigan. awesome sandstone cliffs, white (singing) sand beaches, and water like pics you see in the tropics. Except colder. We did a week-long hike, and since we were swimming every day, it was the only hiking trip where everyone didn't smell rather gamey. If you go and intend to swim, go in late summer. Lake Superior doesn't warm up quickly. I hear it's a particularly good trip if you're kayaking.
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Let me introduce something that the legendary jungle special force use and it's reasonable price with exceptional quality material.
Introducing the:
http://nepalkhukurihouse.com/Products/?showmaster=category&CatID=18 (http://nepalkhukurihouse.com/Products/?showmaster=category&CatID=18)
http://nepalkhukurihouse.com/1/Nepal-Army-Service-Kukri.php (http://nepalkhukurihouse.com/1/Nepal-Army-Service-Kukri.php)
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Kukris are cool, but I've never heard gurkhas mentioned as jungle special forces before. I didn't think there was a lot of jungle in Nepal, more, well, mountains?
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And lets not forget the venerable Marine Corps Ka-Bar!!!
Proven since WWII. :salute:
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:worthless:
;)
My tourist Kuk with an anglicized handle
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/sparky_415/Kukri/Kuk7.jpg)
My K-Bar
(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n184/sparky_415/stuff/201211024.jpg)
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Your K-Bar looks suspiciously like a SOG.
Wait... am I looking at the wrong thing? :D
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I hope to be able to get more piccies up when I move.
All the stuff I mentioned above is on the list :)
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Lynn :D
From top left to bottom right
Sidewinder light
K-Bar USMC knife
Adjusted BAK (British Army Knife)
My only SOG multitool
:salute:
@Al,
Looking forward to it :tu:
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The Ka-Bar is a great knife, massive but beautifully balanced. Here's mine with an example of what it would have faced in the Pacific-the Japanese Type 30 sword bayonet. This fit both standard Japanese rifles of the time, the Type 38 6.5mm and the Type 99 7.7mm . This particular one has a hooked "blade breaker" quillion, which isn't the most common variant. It was brought home by my grandfather, who was a Marine.
(http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g448/Jerseydevil379/DSCF0479.jpg)
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It was brought home by my grandfather, who was a Marine.
A bit of a sobering thought.
Sparky, I hope you understand, I do indeed know what a K-Bar is, and what it looks like. My brother was a Marine, and LOVED the K-Bar. I was a programmer in the Air Force and LOVE my keychain MTs. I think that sums up the difference in our philosophies pretty well. He needs to be able to be lethal and survive in the wilds. I needed to be able to swap a failed hard drive. :D
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I really like the Kabar too, though I must confess I do not own one.
The Kabar as I understand it is predominantly a fighting knife, much like our Fairburn Sykes knives. I think our MOD knife is more of a "tool" and more versatile (please correct me if I'm wrong), and that's the kind of knives I go for. Obviously ANY knife is useful in a survival situation, but I hope you see what I mean.
The Muela Jabali of mine is also bowie style, but the stag handle and brass bolsters make it feel more of a general knife than a fighting instrument to me
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If you want a US equivalent to Fairbairn-Sykes, you would look at the Applegate-Fairbairn (yes, it was the same Fairbairn in the two knives). The ka-bar was a hunting knife chosen for military use after evaluating a number of civilian knives, since no military design existed. The ka-bar has to do everything from fighting to digging to, well, stabbing, where the FS and AF are only weapons.
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Take a read of this article from "facebook friend" Thomas"Tomahawk" Moore.
http://tomahawksadventuretravel.blogspot.com/2012/04/ol-butch-my-faithful-blade.html (http://tomahawksadventuretravel.blogspot.com/2012/04/ol-butch-my-faithful-blade.html)
:whistle:
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Take a read of this article from "facebook friend" Thomas"Tomahawk" Moore.
http://tomahawksadventuretravel.blogspot.com/2012/04/ol-butch-my-faithful-blade.html (http://tomahawksadventuretravel.blogspot.com/2012/04/ol-butch-my-faithful-blade.html)
:whistle:
:D :D :D I like that :tu:
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Kukris are cool, but I've never heard gurkhas mentioned as jungle special forces before. I didn't think there was a lot of jungle in Nepal, more, well, mountains?
Steinar, you are right. Gurkhas were not known for their Jungle warefare, it was in this part of the world South East Asia the Gurkhas was deployed as elite to fight jungle warefare against the Malayan communist party. That was why they were seens as elite of jungle warefare here, they were deploy in Borneo too: http://www.historicaleye.com/sukarno.html (http://www.historicaleye.com/sukarno.html)
There are probably better known Jungle warefare elite than the Gurkhas though :)
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Ah, that clears it up. Thanks. :tu:
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Take a read of this article from "facebook friend" Thomas"Tomahawk" Moore.
http://tomahawksadventuretravel.blogspot.com/2012/04/ol-butch-my-faithful-blade.html (http://tomahawksadventuretravel.blogspot.com/2012/04/ol-butch-my-faithful-blade.html)
:whistle:
:D :D :D I like that :tu:
+ 1 :D
@Al,
Mine was in my toy box at the meet, I can't remember who got to see it
@Lynn
I guessed you were joking, to be polite I though I should label them anyway (and I'm sure you could remove a hard drive using the K-Bar >:D )
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@Al,
Mine was in my toy box at the meet, I can't remember who got to see it
Yeah, I saw it mate, that's why I said I like 'em :D
It just struck me as more of a stabby thingy, than a choppy, bashy, diggy, whacky, pry-y thingy :rofl:
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I guessed you were joking, to be polite I though I should label them anyway (and I'm sure you could remove a hard drive using the K-Bar >:D )
Yeah, I guess I should have been more clear in my first post. It sucks that humor comes across so flat via text sometimes. The labels saved me coming back to ask what the folding blade one was, so yes, very helpful.
As for using a K-Bar to remove a hard drive... well, yes, you could, and honestly, it wouldn't be the dumbest thing I've seen done with computer hardware by a fair shot. :D
Big-Target: Nice read, and amusing.
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Take a read of this article from "facebook friend" Thomas"Tomahawk" Moore.
http://tomahawksadventuretravel.blogspot.com/2012/04/ol-butch-my-faithful-blade.html (http://tomahawksadventuretravel.blogspot.com/2012/04/ol-butch-my-faithful-blade.html)
:whistle:
Got me all sentimental as my very first 'sheath knife' was a very similar 'seaman's' knife. :dd: Sadly long disappeared now after being lent to a friend when we were still kids. :-\
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I guessed you were joking, to be polite I though I should label them anyway (and I'm sure you could remove a hard drive using the K-Bar >:D )
Yeah, I guess I should have been more clear in my first post. It sucks that humor comes across so flat via text sometimes. The labels saved me coming back to ask what the folding blade one was, so yes, very helpful.
As for using a K-Bar to remove a hard drive... well, yes, you could, and honestly, it wouldn't be the dumbest thing I've seen done with computer hardware by a fair shot. :D
Big-Target: Nice read, and amusing.
There's a bit about it here when you get a spare min :tu:
And My photo was from an attempt at showing an 'Army Style' EDC
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,28303.msg492249.html#msg492249 (http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,28303.msg492249.html#msg492249)
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There's a bit about it here when you get a spare min :tu:
Very nice, sir. You do beautiful work.
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There's a bit about it here when you get a spare min :tu:
Very nice, sir. You do beautiful work.
Thanks Lynn :salute:
I'm more than happy with it but I still need to work on my pin peaning (and my camera takes some good pictures ;) )
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Did you guys ever see the thread on YouTube, I think by Urban Prepper? He built a neat little kit that he actually does carry all around. Sine of the items were floss, Immodium AD, Tylenol. Things we are actually likely to need in the REAL world.
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It is suprising what One can do with Dental Floss and a Needle!
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Did you guys ever see the thread on YouTube, I think by Urban Prepper? He built a neat little kit that he actually does carry all around. Sine of the items were floss, Immodium AD, Tylenol. Things we are actually likely to need in the REAL world.
Dumb question. Tried looking for that thread, you got the link?? :think:
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I think he means this video.
Urban Altoids Survival Tin - EDC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvq1rKmVhDg#)
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Well i think ive now got my GK survival knife setup sorted, added a lanyard hole (all ashleys fault lol)
(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff428/zed1970/P1010154-3.jpg)
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After having to bushwhack through several miles of poison oak infested trail this last weekend, and other types of flora, I decided I need a good machete that I can carry on my backpack. After much research I've ordered a Condor Tool & Knife "Golok".
http://www.knifecenter.com/item/CN41014HCS/Condor-Tool-and-Knife-Golok-Machete-14-inch-Black-Carbon-Steel-Blade-Walnut-Handles-Leather-Sheath (http://www.knifecenter.com/item/CN41014HCS/Condor-Tool-and-Knife-Golok-Machete-14-inch-Black-Carbon-Steel-Blade-Walnut-Handles-Leather-Sheath)
I figure it'll double as a general purpose survival knife as well, as it's large enough to use for wood processing.
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I'd be interested in hearing what you think about the Golok mate, they certainly seem to be getting good reviews. :)
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I'd be interested in hearing what you think about the Golok mate, they certainly seem to be getting good reviews. :)
I'll keep you posted... It won't be here until next week, most likely, and we don't have another camping trip scheduled until July, when we're going to Sequoia / King's Canyon. Not sure about the trails there, but after my Tuolumne experience, I don't want to go without it!
I'll take it up into the open space preserved behind my house after I get it, and test it on some of the poison oak we have here... >:D
Edit: I have to admit I'm having second thoughts now, and thinking I should've gotten the Parang instead... each has features I like. The Golok's blade tapers from 1/4" thick at the handle, to 1/8" at the tip, so it should work well on brush, and its sheath doesn't require opening any snaps. The Parang, on the other hand, has a bit better reach and is more designed for brush and weeds than the Golok. However, it doesn't have the tapered blade, or the snap-less sheath, or the nice ball-end on the handle...
Agh! It never ends!
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Just been comparing the specs on them and I can see your dilemma. :-\ On balance I think I would have chosen the Golok myself.
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Just been comparing the specs on them and I can see your dilemma. :-\ On balance I think I would have chosen the Golok myself.
Yeah, I think the Golok is the better of the two as an overall multipurpose utility tool... the blade should be better for wood processing than the Parang. The shorter length and the snap-less sheath are really what made me go for the Golok, as I think that'll make the Golok more pack-friendly. My hiking pack is a Mountainsmith Approach 3.0, which has side slots for cross country skis. There's a compression strap at the top of the slot, so I'm going to try running it through the belt loop of the sheath for carrying the Golok.
Our back yard is pretty overgrown right now, and my wife has been on me for a while about getting it dealt with... I can't rent a weed eater until Monday, but even so, there are some pretty nasty clumps of thistles out there that I'm going to save for testing the Golok. My wife said she'd even take pics for me to post here for a review of the tool. With any luck I'll get it early next week, and I'll be able to post a review a day or two after I get it. I'm really looking forward to getting this tool... partly because after enduring a week of poison oak rash on my side and face, I'm out for revenge!!! >:D
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I keep thinking about a Woodsman's Pal myself
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Kukris are cool, but I've never heard gurkhas mentioned as jungle special forces before. I didn't think there was a lot of jungle in Nepal, more, well, mountains?
Steinar, you are right. Gurkhas were not known for their Jungle warefare, it was in this part of the world South East Asia the Gurkhas was deployed as elite to fight jungle warefare against the Malayan communist party. That was why they were seens as elite of jungle warefare here, they were deploy in Borneo too: http://www.historicaleye.com/sukarno.html (http://www.historicaleye.com/sukarno.html)
There are probably better known Jungle warefare elite than the Gurkhas though :)
I hadnt had a Kukri for over 20 years untill picking these 2 up recently, they defiantly would make a grea jungle survival knife :tu:
(http://i1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff428/zed1970/P1010189-6.jpg)
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I have been poking around the Yard and on Hikes with one of thse as an EDC survival knife of a light weight sort...my Rajah II in the Jack Pack and either my Spartan or Rajah III in my Pocket or Vice Versa depending on my Mood of course backed up by an SAK or Two...
http://www.coldsteel.com/rajahseries.html (http://www.coldsteel.com/rajahseries.html)
Dtrain
PS...The Rajah II is awsome for cutting starps and such
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The shipping on my Golok from Knifecenter is taking forever... :facepalm: :whistle: I ordered it a week ago today, and it won't be here for two more days yet... :rant:
I am really looking forward to getting it. I'll check the edge and finish it up if necessary, then I'm going to put it through its paces...
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I'm still a HUGE fan of the Puukko style for dealing with the vast majority of tasks, but many people expect something bigger for a "survival" knife. I've not got many, but the ones I have got are very dependable and very capable
(http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/50ft-trad/Big%20Knives/P1010664.jpg)
I posted them in another thread recently, but they belong here too. From the top:
Chris Caine Survival Tool - a real brute of a tool, but capable of lighter work too
Scandi Puukko - not the best chopping knife but a very capable knife all the same
J Adams MOD Survival knife - British Army Issue sharpened prybar
Muela Jabali 17A - full tang bowie with stag and brass for surviving in style :D
Scorpion Knives Warthog - SUPERB knife and actually beats a Puukko for me. LOVE IT!!!
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The thing that bugs me about puukko style knives is they don't have any kind of finger groove, guard, choil, etc. to keep the hand from slipping down onto the blade.
I've been looking a lot at the Condor Tavian... looks like a great small utility knife.
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I got this from Neil after the last meet-up.
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss260/gareth_SAKs/Knives/phonedump010.jpg)
TBH I've never had an issue with the lack of any kind of finger guard on this style of knife and I've got to say the grip in very comfortable.
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I got this from Neil after the last meet-up.
(http://i581.photobucket.com/albums/ss260/gareth_SAKs/Knives/phonedump010.jpg)
TBH I've never had an issue with the lack of any kind of finger guard on this style of knife and I've got to say the grip in very comfortable.
Nice knife, Gareth! I'd say it's *pretty* :D
Thanks for the info. Nothing personal against the style, I've just always felt more secure when there's a guard or place for my fingers.
And the wait for my Golok is killing me!!! :rant:
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'Pretty' is probably not all that unfair. :D It's a J.Marttiini (a Finnish knife brand) and has "Joulumaa, Santa Claus Land" stamped on the sheath.(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs12/f/2006/328/e/7/santa_and_rudolf_by_dutchie17.gif) A nice knife anyway and seems to have taken a good edge. Not actually done much of anything with it yet, other than sharpen it, so I can't say how good it is but I can't see any issues ATM.
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'Pretty' is probably not all that unfair. :D It's a J.Marttiini (a Finnish knife brand) and has "Joulumaa, Santa Claus Land" stamped on the sheath.(http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs12/f/2006/328/e/7/santa_and_rudolf_by_dutchie17.gif) A nice knife anyway and seems to have taken a good edge. Not actually done much of anything with it yet, other than sharpen it, so I can't say how good it is but I can't see any issues ATM.
Either way, it's a beauty, for sure. :) Have fun!
Tell you what, you post more pics of your new Martini, and I'll post some pics of my Golok when it comes... if it ever does... :rant:
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Thread necro!
This was a fun thread and I thought I'd bring it back up to see if anyone has anything to add. If not, it's a good read at least!
Def
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I enjoy these sorts of threads because of the diversity of discussion they generate.
I also don't think there is any 'one' ideal survival knife. The reality is--as others already stated in this thread--the best survival knife is the one you have with you when the Smurf's hit the Mosh Pit. And different circumstances will suggest different survival 'knives'. A good machete will be the tool of choice in tropical environments, a good axe in more boreal climates.
As a basic survival tool, I think it's hard to beat a Vic Farmer or Leatherman Wave. The "Survivorman" series highlights how different tools can all serve a survival role.
I've been run through a few military survival courses and have come to the conclusion that one's mentality is more significant than one's tool set. Still, it's always nice to be equipped with a handy tools set.
I usually deployed with a Vic Farmer and a multitool, Wave or Charge. In addition, I carried a fixed blade. Initially I carried a Camilus USAF Pilot's knife, but then I got Scott Gossman to make me the knife pictured below. I asked him to make me a 5.5" knife I could use to cut my way out of a downed helicopter. Here's what he came up with:
(https://i.imgur.com/MXQaVMg.jpg)
Off the leash:
(https://i.imgur.com/VZcfWlp.jpg)
I absolutely love this knife, simple as it is. And yet, I almost never carry it now. When I go off on an adventure or road trip, this isn't the knife I carry.
Why?
Because this knife is now special to me and I don't want to risk it being damaged or lost. How is that for backward, smurfed thinking?
But, also, I'm not sure that any old knife won't also serve as a 'survival knife' in a crisis. How often will you really need anything more than a Vic Farmer in a tight spot?
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I enjoy these sorts of threads because of the diversity of discussion they generate.
I also don't think there is any 'one' ideal survival knife. The reality is--as others already stated in this thread--the best survival knife is the one you have with you when the Smurf's hit the Mosh Pit. And different circumstances will suggest different survival 'knives'. A good machete will be the tool of choice in tropical environments, a good axe in more boreal climates.
As a basic survival tool, I think it's hard to beat a Vic Farmer or Leatherman Wave. The "Survivorman" series highlights how different tools can all serve a survival role.
I've been run through a few military survival courses and have come to the conclusion that one's mentality is more significant than one's tool set. Still, it's always nice to be equipped with a handy tools set.
I usually deployed with a Vic Farmer and a multitool, Wave or Charge. In addition, I carried a fixed blade. Initially I carried a Camilus USAF Pilot's knife, but then I got Scott Gossman to make me the knife pictured below. I asked him to make me a 5.5" knife I could use to cut my way out of a downed helicopter. Here's what he came up with:
(https://i.imgur.com/MXQaVMg.jpg)
Off the leash:
(https://i.imgur.com/VZcfWlp.jpg)
I absolutely love this knife, simple as it is. And yet, I almost never carry it now. When I go off on an adventure or road trip, this isn't the knife I carry.
Why?
Because this knife is now special to me and I don't want to risk it being damaged or lost. How is that for backward, smurfed thinking?
But, also, I'm not sure that any old knife won't also serve as a 'survival knife' in a crisis. How often will you really need anything more than a Vic Farmer in a tight spot?
That's one beautiful knife you have there mate :drool:.
I wouldn't use it either, but then again, I only really use stuff that I own doubles from (or triples ::)).
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Thanks, 24.
I feel badly about not using this knife more, but, then, how often do you need to cut your way out of a helicopter? Scott makes a great knife, and if this one had a more conventional sheath, I'd probably carry it more regularly.
:cheers:
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reminds me a bit of a smaller Tusker that Gossman makes
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That is a beautiful knife. :tu:
If you want a good knife that can cut you out of a helicopter (and clean fish, strip bark or pretty well anything else you want to do) plus has a normal looking traditional leather sheath, check out Grohmann knives. Specifically the #1 which was issued to the Canadian Paratrooper Corps (the Red Arrows) in the late 60's or my latest go to knife, the #4 if you want something bigger. They are both a lot more knife than folks give them credit for. :D
I recently picked up a book in a discount store called The Ultimate Survival Manual- Canadian Edition. It features 333 Survival Skills, and I'm not sure how I managed to live on this planet for 43 years (so far) without the knowledge contained within. It has interesting articles like "How to survive a lion attack" which doesn't strike me as an overly common issue in Canada that I need to prepare for, you know, as we don't have lions in Canada.
Yes, some of you will point out that we have mountain lions, but the article is about African Lions, which are very differently behaved than our mountain lions, rendering the article useless..
There's another section on how to deal with a broken bone. At one point it says don't try to reset the bone if it is protruding the skin, just splint it as is. Then nothing. So, I guess once you splint it, it'll be ok, and you can just leave it that way? :facepalm:
It does say in the beginning though, that survival is more of a mindset than any gear, which I think is something we all can agree on.
Def
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I absolutely love this knife, simple as it is. And yet, I almost never carry it now. When I go off on an adventure or road trip, this isn't the knife I carry.
Why?
Because this knife is now special to me and I don't want to risk it being damaged or lost. How is that for backward, smurfed thinking?
But, also, I'm not sure that any old knife won't also serve as a 'survival knife' in a crisis. How often will you really need anything more than a Vic Farmer in a tight spot?
that's a lovely knife down to basics. No complicated blade shape, complex grind, fancy scales material, no weird screws or unnecessary add-ons...truly a utilitarian and straightforward working blade.
I like that it screams simplicity, but also versatility and usefulness..
a nice piece as usual :salute:
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I've got a Grohmann #1 belt knife which I picked up in Nova Scotia at the factory. Mine has a flat grind, and makes a great slicer. I was so pleased with it that I got a couple more to give to family as gifts.
I think the #3 is the famous Army 'Jump knife'. The #4 looks like a beast of a survival knife and would be a solid choice for anyone. I'm surprised more makers haven't copied the ergonomic design Grohmann pioneered.
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Thanks, 24.
I feel badly about not using this knife more, but, then, how often do you need to cut your way out of a helicopter? Scott makes a great knife, and if this one had a more conventional sheath, I'd probably carry it more regularly.
:cheers:
It's a good thing you know someone who does nice leather work ;)
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:facepalm:
-
I enjoy these sorts of threads because of the diversity of discussion they generate.
I also don't think there is any 'one' ideal survival knife. The reality is--as others already stated in this thread--the best survival knife is the one you have with you when the Smurf's hit the Mosh Pit. And different circumstances will suggest different survival 'knives'. A good machete will be the tool of choice in tropical environments, a good axe in more boreal climates.
As a basic survival tool, I think it's hard to beat a Vic Farmer or Leatherman Wave. The "Survivorman" series highlights how different tools can all serve a survival role.
I've been run through a few military survival courses and have come to the conclusion that one's mentality is more significant than one's tool set. Still, it's always nice to be equipped with a handy tools set.
I usually deployed with a Vic Farmer and a multitool, Wave or Charge. In addition, I carried a fixed blade. Initially I carried a Camilus USAF Pilot's knife, but then I got Scott Gossman to make me the knife pictured below. I asked him to make me a 5.5" knife I could use to cut my way out of a downed helicopter. Here's what he came up with:
(https://i.imgur.com/MXQaVMg.jpg)
Off the leash:
(https://i.imgur.com/VZcfWlp.jpg)
I absolutely love this knife, simple as it is. And yet, I almost never carry it now. When I go off on an adventure or road trip, this isn't the knife I carry.
Why?
Because this knife is now special to me and I don't want to risk it being damaged or lost. How is that for backward, smurfed thinking?
But, also, I'm not sure that any old knife won't also serve as a 'survival knife' in a crisis. How often will you really need anything more than a Vic Farmer in a tight spot?
Beautiful knife Nix.
I just saw this topic and read the last page, I'll take the time to read it from the start soon
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Here's a pic of my Grohmann (Stamped #KI, but I'm fairly sure it's a FFG #1.)
(https://i.imgur.com/VjEphpP.jpg)
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I don't like survival knives. I never even liked knives with larger than 4 inch blades. I couldn't figure out why people wanted to carry a huge, heavy knife, that to me was hard to work with. I still prefer to carry a machete for chopping and a smaller knife for knife jobs. Then it dawned on me that all the YouTube proponents of big heavy survival knives were from up north in the pine and deciduous forests. They're all axe guys used to chopping hard and sappy trees and they really don't do well with machetes. They would never go camping without a hatchet or camp axe, so a big heavy knife is an easy transition. Why? because a big knife is not a substitute for a machete but it is a substitute for a hatchet and if I was in an area of hardwoods where a hatchet might come in handy then I suppose I would find a big heavy knife more universally useful than a hatchet if that was all I had with me for some silly reason. I don't think I've had only one knife on me in years so I don't think I have to worry about it.
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This was my first fixed blade purchase after I developed a knife addiction about 10 - 11 years ago. The Chris Reeve Mountaineer II.
(https://i.imgur.com/VrqjKRl.jpg)
I bought it used on the bay of E for a pretty good price, I think around $150. I carried and used it on camping and hiking trips until another fixed blade arrived, and then another and another and so on ::) I really like the hollow handle design and carried a variety of useful items in it when it was actively used. Even now that I pull it out after 5 years of hiding there were matches and a striker inside. It is a pretty cool knife and I'm tempted to carry it again but now that these are discontinued and the prices asked are over the top, I may just keep this as one of the few collector pieces I own.
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The whole survival thing is pretty unlikely for me personally (I don't go camping anymore, less it be in a hotel room), as per OP. Having water in my car on a hot summer day, and have my mobile charged helps me survive better then a carrying a survival knife. Still, you never know what may happen. Earthquakes, Zombies, Alien invasions etc. So having something that may help out in such a situation is not a bad thing. Hence I have a few items that besides chopping up a supermarket bought chicken or some ice blocks, are very rarely used, and are sitting in the bottom drawer of my bed side table. (burglars, be warned)
My SOG Tech Bowie, and Fast Hawk.
(https://i.imgur.com/fXNA3SX.jpg)
Maybe not the best survival tools out there, but I cut some trees with both and they seem to work as advertised, and I like the way they look.
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The whole survival thing is pretty unlikely for me personally (I don't go camping anymore, less it be in a hotel room), as per OP. Having water in my car on a hot summer day, and have my mobile charged helps me survive better then a carrying a survival knife. Still, you never know what may happen. Earthquakes, Zombies, Alien invasions etc. So having something that may help out in such a situation is not a bad thing. Hence I have a few items that besides chopping up a supermarket bought chicken or some ice blocks, are very rarely used, and are sitting in the bottom drawer of my bed side table. (burglars, be warned)
My SOG Tech Bowie, and Fast Hawk.
(https://i.imgur.com/fXNA3SX.jpg)
Maybe not the best survival tools out there, but I cut some trees with both and they seem to work as advertised, and I like the way they look.
good tools :like: and true that here we don't have many "disaster scenarios" threatening to pop up where we live,
but in Spain you'd better not take those out of home... :rant: :(
even in the outdoors you're sure to meet the authorities sooner or later if you're seen with them :P
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The whole survival thing is pretty unlikely for me personally (I don't go camping anymore, less it be in a hotel room), as per OP. Having water in my car on a hot summer day, and have my mobile charged helps me survive better then a carrying a survival knife. Still, you never know what may happen. Earthquakes, Zombies, Alien invasions etc. So having something that may help out in such a situation is not a bad thing. Hence I have a few items that besides chopping up a supermarket bought chicken or some ice blocks, are very rarely used, and are sitting in the bottom drawer of my bed side table. (burglars, be warned)
My SOG Tech Bowie, and Fast Hawk.
(https://i.imgur.com/fXNA3SX.jpg)
Maybe not the best survival tools out there, but I cut some trees with both and they seem to work as advertised, and I like the way they look.
good tools :like: and true that here we don't have many "disaster scenarios" threatening to pop up where we live,
but in Spain you'd better not take those out of home... :rant: :(
even in the outdoors you're sure to meet the authorities sooner or later if you're seen with them :P
Thanks! On my own property, it is perfectly fine to have, but out in the streets, anything with a blade over 11 cm is illegal in Spain.
I suppose when the SHTF, it's a different story.
BTW: My toy slingshot is illegal to.
(https://i.imgur.com/B9THelP.jpg)
I would face jail time if they would catch me with that.
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The whole survival thing is pretty unlikely for me personally (I don't go camping anymore, less it be in a hotel room), as per OP. Having water in my car on a hot summer day, and have my mobile charged helps me survive better then a carrying a survival knife. Still, you never know what may happen. Earthquakes, Zombies, Alien invasions etc. So having something that may help out in such a situation is not a bad thing. Hence I have a few items that besides chopping up a supermarket bought chicken or some ice blocks, are very rarely used, and are sitting in the bottom drawer of my bed side table. (burglars, be warned)
My SOG Tech Bowie, and Fast Hawk.
(https://i.imgur.com/fXNA3SX.jpg)
Maybe not the best survival tools out there, but I cut some trees with both and they seem to work as advertised, and I like the way they look.
good tools :like: and true that here we don't have many "disaster scenarios" threatening to pop up where we live,
but in Spain you'd better not take those out of home... :rant: :(
even in the outdoors you're sure to meet the authorities sooner or later if you're seen with them :P
Thanks! On my own property, it is perfectly fine to have, but out in the streets, anything with a blade over 11 cm is illegal in Spain.
I suppose when the SHTF, it's a different story.
BTW: My toy slingshot is illegal to.
(https://i.imgur.com/B9THelP.jpg)
I would face jail time if they would catch me with that.
kewl! 8)
I have one from The Slingshot Channel and two old metal bodied ones,
and yes we'd be in trouble with those in almost any context in this country :D
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The whole survival thing is pretty unlikely for me personally (I don't go camping anymore, less it be in a hotel room), as per OP. Having water in my car on a hot summer day, and have my mobile charged helps me survive better then a carrying a survival knife. Still, you never know what may happen. Earthquakes, Zombies, Alien invasions etc. So having something that may help out in such a situation is not a bad thing. Hence I have a few items that besides chopping up a supermarket bought chicken or some ice blocks, are very rarely used, and are sitting in the bottom drawer of my bed side table. (burglars, be warned)
My SOG Tech Bowie, and Fast Hawk.
(https://i.imgur.com/fXNA3SX.jpg)
Maybe not the best survival tools out there, but I cut some trees with both and they seem to work as advertised, and I like the way they look.
good tools :like: and true that here we don't have many "disaster scenarios" threatening to pop up where we live,
but in Spain you'd better not take those out of home... :rant: :(
even in the outdoors you're sure to meet the authorities sooner or later if you're seen with them :P
Thanks! On my own property, it is perfectly fine to have, but out in the streets, anything with a blade over 11 cm is illegal in Spain.
I suppose when the SHTF, it's a different story.
BTW: My toy slingshot is illegal to.
(https://i.imgur.com/B9THelP.jpg)
I would face jail time if they would catch me with that.
kewl! 8)
I have one from The Slingshot Channel and two old metal bodied ones,
and yes we'd be in trouble with those in almost any context in this country :D
I need to change the illegal hollow tube rubber band with a flat band, that would legally make it a toy again.
The funny thing is that some flat bands are even more powerful then the hollow tube ones.
The law sometimes does not make any sense....
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I started making a sheath for an all-purpose-probably-even-survival knife. I think the sheath will be more survival-like than the knife...
:facepalm:
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I started making a sheath for an all-purpose-probably-even-survival knife. I think the sheath will be more survival-like than the knife...
:facepalm:
:popcorn:
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I started making a sheath for an all-purpose-probably-even-survival knife. I think the sheath will be more survival-like than the knife...
:facepalm:
:popcorn:
I'll get some pics of it. Still working on the carry method attachments.
:cheers:
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I've really enjoyed reading this old thread. tom. :like:
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I hang out so much in the Swiss Army Knights, I forgot how many other great topics there are.
Here's my #4 Grohman, bought around 1980/81.
And like Nix said it's a beast, a real chopper that could replace a hatchet
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That Grohman is awesome :dd: :drool: :like:
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I think my latest is a survival knife too.
Ready to tackle just about anything.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190107/e03ac1463470cd2b4ee26c0acad50d56.jpg)
A Mora Garberg.
As with some others here, it'll most likely be on stand-by for most of the time, but with the first valid excuse to take it on a hike, I will :D
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I hang out so much in the Swiss Army Knights, I forgot how many other great topics there are.
Here's my #4 Grohman, bought around 1980/81.
And like Nix said it's a beast, a real chopper that could replace a hatchet
I always loved the idea of a Grohman, but could never quite justify the price of one over here.
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There are some in the MTO Store inventory.... if you want to discuss it send me a PM. :D
Def
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I think my latest is a survival knife too.
Ready to tackle just about anything.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190107/e03ac1463470cd2b4ee26c0acad50d56.jpg)
A Mora Garberg.
As with some others here, it'll most likely be on stand-by for most of the time, but with the first valid excuse to take it on a hike, I will :D
Let us know how it goes, Nick :cheers: I have been back and forth about getting one of these since they came out :ahhh
:popcorn:
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I have a survival knife that's named after an outdoorsman. Bear Grylls? Nope. Les Stroud? Nope. Nessmuk! :whistle:
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Just stumbled on this forum and after introducing myslef in the Newbe forum I noticed this thread. Great discussion about survival knives! After a few decades of military service and using all kinds of knives, the “old camp style” knife like the Buck 119, theKa-Bar, the USAF pilot survival knife and the British MoD survival knife worked for me the best. These all are easy to sharpen, inexpensive and can be used for most field tasks (though the Brit MoD knife is more like a shovel and is heavy...).
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Great pic of an awesome and historical blade 8) :like:
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:iagree: 110% :tu:
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Overall great thread with some even better knives. I am curious what everyone's opinion is of the tracker style knives. These knives were featured in the movie The Hunted with Tommy Lee Jones and Benicio Del Toro. I have to say that the look of the knife is intriguing, but is it functional?
Ken
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I dont have One but I have handled it..I say Yes but that is a Knife that is a very polarizing One with Folks..My Take is it does what Tom Brown wanted it too if he could "Only Take One"..Will it Skin Gut Chop Dress Out Game perfectly? No but it will perform the Tasks he envisioned "Adequately" when need be..The Saw Blade was meant to help with Notching and as a Wire Breaker...I too lust after One not really to Use but because I loved the Movie
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I dont have One but I have handled it..I say Yes but that is a Knife that is a very polarizing One with Folks..My Take is it does what Tom Brown wanted it too if he could "Only Take One"..Will it Skin Gut Chop Dress Out Game perfectly? No but it will perform the Tasks he envisioned "Adequately" when need be..The Saw Blade was meant to help with Notching and as a Wire Breaker...I too lust after One not really to Use but because I loved the Movie
Thank you for your comment.
Ken
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Your Welcome..Out of Curiousity I was trolling the pages of Amazon and there seem to be several low cost Knock Offs to at least play with the Idea or satisfy the I must Have It without breaking the Bank to do So
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Mine is the Randall model 18 - very nice knife.
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My main/only outdoor fixed blade is a skinner style blade I won in a GAW over at BF aboot a decade ago. It's a nice knife, 3-1/4 long, buffalo horn scales (matches my first GEC, a #25), 1095 steel, and a brown leather sheath. It's even nice after I dropped it on its tip lol. I also have a black Izula, packed away somewhere.
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I'd love to see some pics of that one some time!
Def