Post by: FolderBeholder on January 06, 2017, 03:30:33 PM
I'm working on my SAK collection of the Camper and Woodsman. Do they have 84mm counterparts? I read that the Artisan is the 84mm mate to the Fieldmaster.
Thank you in advance.
A very small collection thus far, but I have to start somewhere.
The Woodsman:
(https://c7.staticflickr.com/1/541/31993249582_5936d66396_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QK8Ltq)
The Camper:
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/1/429/31724295540_ef8b531bda_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QkniNL)
Post by: magentus on January 06, 2017, 03:37:09 PM
http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 06, 2017, 03:40:52 PM
The Artisan is an 84mm model. The 58mm range won't have saws etc. Check SAKWIKI for all the 58mm and 84mm models available:
http://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php
magentus, I meant to say 84mm, so I edited my first post, thank you for catching it in time for me to edit! :tu:
Post by: magentus on January 06, 2017, 03:45:13 PM
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 06, 2017, 03:48:09 PM
No Problemo! Senior moment?Quite right! :D I was typing it a bunch of times and never caught it. :ahhh
Post by: glenfiddich1983 on January 06, 2017, 03:50:32 PM
Post by: magentus on January 06, 2017, 03:57:04 PM
I think the small master craftsman and the small huntsman are the only ones that will come close (sort of) to the Camper and the Woodsman?Yeah, there aren't any 84mm with the Mag and philips layer :cry:
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 06, 2017, 03:59:17 PM
It's possible my most recent purchase (it's in route to me), is a small Huntsman.
Here's hoping. :tu:
The pic from the seller:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/1/378/32126332945_fa2f8fe6b9_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/QWTRwa)
Post by: magentus on January 06, 2017, 04:00:18 PM
Post by: Oxford_Guy on January 06, 2017, 04:05:06 PM
I think the small master craftsman and the small huntsman are the only ones that will come close (sort of) to the Camper and the Woodsman?Yeah, there aren't any 84mm with the Mag and philips layer :cry:
I've see a mod that does!
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 06, 2017, 04:06:15 PM
That's lush! You don't do things by half do you? :cheers:I buy 'em like I gamble, all in! :tu: :pok:
Post by: magentus on January 06, 2017, 04:06:29 PM
I think FoBo is keeping it factory.I think the small master craftsman and the small huntsman are the only ones that will come close (sort of) to the Camper and the Woodsman?Yeah, there aren't any 84mm with the Mag and philips layer :cry:
I've see a mod that does!
That 84mm mod was sweet though! :salute:
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 06, 2017, 04:07:36 PM
I think FoBo is keeping it factory though.I think the small master craftsman and the small huntsman are the only ones that will come close (sort of) to the Camper and the Woodsman?Yeah, there aren't any 84mm with the Mag and philips layer :cry:
I've see a mod that does!
That 84mm mod was sweet though! :salute:
Mag got it right, going to want factory for these.
Post by: cody6268 on January 06, 2017, 06:25:02 PM
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 06, 2017, 06:32:39 PM
Camper really doesn't have one, though the closest it has, I believe is the Lumberjack, now sold as the Walker.Just came back from the SAKWiki page, you're right that is probably the closest. :tu:
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 06, 2017, 06:33:31 PM
I am going to want factory, but that won't stop me from admiring a mod...do you know the link where it is?I think the small master craftsman and the small huntsman are the only ones that will come close (sort of) to the Camper and the Woodsman?Yeah, there aren't any 84mm with the Mag and philips layer :cry:
I've see a mod that does!
Post by: jaya_man on January 07, 2017, 04:08:05 AM
Someone here did build a monster 84mm... just can't remember who... :think:I think FoBo is keeping it factory.I think the small master craftsman and the small huntsman are the only ones that will come close (sort of) to the Camper and the Woodsman?Yeah, there aren't any 84mm with the Mag and philips layer :cry:
I've see a mod that does!
That 84mm mod was sweet though! :salute:
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Post by: jaya_man on January 07, 2017, 04:10:03 AM
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Post by: FolderBeholder on January 07, 2017, 04:15:42 AM
Love your recent snags FB... :like: :drool: :gimme: :cheers:Thanks jaya! :cheers:
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Post by: GigaHz on January 07, 2017, 11:37:28 AM
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll211/gigahzfemtohz/IMG_1917_zps39dgose3.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/gigahzfemtohz/media/IMG_1917_zps39dgose3.jpg.html)
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 07, 2017, 01:35:56 PM
This one?:drool: :like:
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll211/gigahzfemtohz/IMG_1917_zps39dgose3.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/gigahzfemtohz/media/IMG_1917_zps39dgose3.jpg.html)
Post by: AimlessWanderer on January 07, 2017, 01:53:19 PM
(http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=61654.0;attach=201337)
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 07, 2017, 02:07:40 PM
Or this one?I've never seen these models you and GigaHz have posted. :drool:
(http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=61654.0;attach=201337)
Post by: GigaHz on January 07, 2017, 02:40:02 PM
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll211/gigahzfemtohz/IMG_1969_zpswadgijpl.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/gigahzfemtohz/media/IMG_1969_zpswadgijpl.jpg.html)
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 07, 2017, 02:43:45 PM
Smooth backside 84mm.:2tu:
Post by: GigaHz on January 07, 2017, 02:46:45 PM
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll211/gigahzfemtohz/IMG_1970_zps303ij5k8.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/gigahzfemtohz/media/IMG_1970_zps303ij5k8.jpg.html)
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 07, 2017, 02:48:00 PM
Two of my brass Master Craftsman mods. One is old and the other is from current parts.The left one reminds me that I'd like to find a Horn Camper. :tu:
Post by: jaya_man on January 07, 2017, 02:59:52 PM
Or this one?Now this was the Mega84 I was talking about... nice to see it again 50ft-trad...
(http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=61654.0;attach=201337)
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Post by: jaya_man on January 07, 2017, 03:01:47 PM
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Post by: jaya_man on January 07, 2017, 03:03:38 PM
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Post by: jnoxyd on January 07, 2017, 03:07:19 PM
http://archerwinsak.blogspot.co.il/2015/01/collection-victorinox-84mm-models.html(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/9eda3b945c9d4c18666cb789abb5984c.jpg)
http://archerwinsak.blogspot.co.il/2015/01/collection-victorinox-240ku-camper.html
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Post by: FolderBeholder on January 07, 2017, 03:14:17 PM
FolderBeholder, have you seen this interesting blog?Thank you for that top link, I had not seen that. :cheers:
http://archerwinsak.blogspot.co.il/2015/01/collection-victorinox-84mm-models.html(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/9eda3b945c9d4c18666cb789abb5984c.jpg)
http://archerwinsak.blogspot.co.il/2015/01/collection-victorinox-240ku-camper.html
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I was on his 240ku Camper link just yesterday!
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 07, 2017, 03:36:37 PM
Post by: jnoxyd on January 07, 2017, 03:38:13 PM
BTW, Erwin is great collector, but 240kU is another knife ))) (photo by jazzbass)FolderBeholder, have you seen this interesting blog?Thank you for that top link, I had not seen that. :cheers:
http://archerwinsak.blogspot.co.il/2015/01/collection-victorinox-84mm-models.html(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/9eda3b945c9d4c18666cb789abb5984c.jpg)
http://archerwinsak.blogspot.co.il/2015/01/collection-victorinox-240ku-camper.html
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I was on his 240ku Camper link just yesterday!
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/380975e31d1ef41af78ac3beb098bda4.jpg)
84mm Camper small is mod.237k/237kU :)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/261e27cd645d93420a378e962af05fd9.jpg)
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Post by: GigaHz on January 07, 2017, 03:43:11 PM
Those of you who have been collecting for a while, what are the chances of finding a 237k Bgl. with the old style can opener?
Is that this style?
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll211/gigahzfemtohz/IMG_1989_zpsg94turvv.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/gigahzfemtohz/media/IMG_1989_zpsg94turvv.jpg.html)
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 07, 2017, 03:44:54 PM
Those of you who have been collecting for a while, what are the chances of finding a 237k Bgl. with the old style can opener?
Is that this style?
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll211/gigahzfemtohz/IMG_1989_zpsg94turvv.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/gigahzfemtohz/media/IMG_1989_zpsg94turvv.jpg.html)
YES! :drool: :like: :drool: The one I saw had a shackle/bail, but the one in your photo will do!
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 07, 2017, 03:56:31 PM
WOW! Thank you for the additional information. :cheers:BTW, Erwin is great collector, but 240kU is another knife ))) (photo by jazzbass)FolderBeholder, have you seen this interesting blog?Thank you for that top link, I had not seen that. :cheers:
http://archerwinsak.blogspot.co.il/2015/01/collection-victorinox-84mm-models.html(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/9eda3b945c9d4c18666cb789abb5984c.jpg)
http://archerwinsak.blogspot.co.il/2015/01/collection-victorinox-240ku-camper.html
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I was on his 240ku Camper link just yesterday!
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/380975e31d1ef41af78ac3beb098bda4.jpg)
84mm Camper small is mod.237k/237kU :)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/261e27cd645d93420a378e962af05fd9.jpg)
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Post by: Oxford_Guy on January 08, 2017, 02:25:04 PM
I am going to want factory, but that won't stop me from admiring a mod...do you know the link where it is?I think the small master craftsman and the small huntsman are the only ones that will come close (sort of) to the Camper and the Woodsman?Yeah, there aren't any 84mm with the Mag and philips layer :cry:
I've see a mod that does!
Found an image, Here you go:
Post by: jaya_man on January 08, 2017, 02:30:51 PM
What a beut... :drool:I am going to want factory, but that won't stop me from admiring a mod...do you know the link where it is?I think the small master craftsman and the small huntsman are the only ones that will come close (sort of) to the Camper and the Woodsman?Yeah, there aren't any 84mm with the Mag and philips layer :cry:
I've see a mod that does!
Found an image, Here you go:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 08, 2017, 02:32:02 PM
Nicely done mod! :cheers: :tu:I am going to want factory, but that won't stop me from admiring a mod...do you know the link where it is?I think the small master craftsman and the small huntsman are the only ones that will come close (sort of) to the Camper and the Woodsman?Yeah, there aren't any 84mm with the Mag and philips layer :cry:
I've see a mod that does!
Found an image, Here you go:
Post by: jazzbass on January 12, 2017, 12:23:38 AM
First pic is one of my Model 236k knives. Second is a pic of a 237k (also c. 1944) taken from it's original eBay auction. I won this auction so so I'm sure the seller won't mind me recycling this image since it is of my knife. :)
(http://i.imgur.com/wFGFfdl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/jAMGwgr.jpg)
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 12, 2017, 01:08:45 AM
Small versions of the Camper (237k) and Woodsman (236k) do exist, but for whatever reason Victorinox decided to phase out production of them in the mid 1960s. Small Camper models go back to the 4 pin era of the early 1900s (I actually have one of these in very, very rough condition). However, despite the fact that they could produce a run of these today if they wanted, the newest 84mm Camper I've ever seen is from the mid 1960s. As for the 84mm Huntsman, these too disappear around the mid 1960s. For both of these models, most of the ones you find are from the mid 1940s to early 1950s. After the mid 1950s Victorinox really starts to de-emphasize thicker 84mm models in favor of their 91mm counterparts, and regular production runs of 84mm knives thicker than 2 layers all but stops by the late 1980s.
First pic is one of my Model 236k knives. Second is a pic of a 237k (also c. 1944) taken from it's original eBay auction. I won this auction so so I'm sure the seller won't mind me recycling this image since it is of my knife. :)
:drool: :drool:
Thanks for the post JB. I sure do want to pick up a lobster claw can opener some day.
Post by: JamesJ on January 12, 2017, 01:13:50 AM
Please tell me there's a thread on fitting that IL awl to 84mm!Or this one?Now this was the Mega84 I was talking about... nice to see it again 50ft-trad...
(http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=61654.0;attach=201337)
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Wondering if I could add an electrician/awl layer...I have a RadioShack that's not in "collector" condition....
You guys are probably sick of seeing mine: (too bad here it is again)
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 12, 2017, 01:17:47 AM
Hopefully someone will know if that can be done and chime in.
Post by: JamesJ on January 12, 2017, 01:18:34 AM
I am going to want factory, but that won't stop me from admiring a mod...do you know the link where it is?I think the small master craftsman and the small huntsman are the only ones that will come close (sort of) to the Camper and the Woodsman?Yeah, there aren't any 84mm with the Mag and philips layer :cry:
I've see a mod that does!
Found an image, Here you go:
I'm guessing that's the newer short IL phillips combined with the old gray mag in order to fit the smaller chassis?
Post by: jaya_man on January 12, 2017, 02:12:27 AM
Here it is:Please tell me there's a thread on fitting that IL awl to 84mm!Or this one?Now this was the Mega84 I was talking about... nice to see it again 50ft-trad...
(http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=61654.0;attach=201337)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wondering if I could add an electrician/awl layer...I have a RadioShack that's not in "collector" condition....
You guys are probably sick of seeing mine: (too bad here it is again)
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=68815
Post by: jaya_man on January 12, 2017, 02:14:01 AM
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php?topic=61654
Post by: JamesJ on January 12, 2017, 04:02:10 AM
Post by: jnoxyd on January 12, 2017, 07:52:04 AM
Small versions of the Camper (237k) and Woodsman (236k) do exist, but for whatever reason Victorinox decided to phase out production of them in the mid 1960s. Small Camper models go back to the 4 pin era of the early 1900s (I actually have one of these in very, very rough condition). However, despite the fact that they could produce a run of these today if they wanted, the newest 84mm Camper I've ever seen is from the mid 1960s. As for the 84mm Huntsman, these too disappear around the mid 1960s. For both of these models, most of the ones you find are from the mid 1940s to early 1950s. After the mid 1950s Victorinox really starts to de-emphasize thicker 84mm models in favor of their 91mm counterparts, and regular production runs of 84mm knives thicker than 2 layers all but stops by the late 1980s.Glad to see new photo by jazzbass! Can you tell us about different scissors position on the pre 1946 knives? (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170112/cf5065be2b764c8b486efae274d64e76.jpg)
First pic is one of my Model 236k knives. Second is a pic of a 237k (also c. 1944) taken from it's original eBay auction. I won this auction so so I'm sure the seller won't mind me recycling this image since it is of my knife. :)
(http://i.imgur.com/wFGFfdl.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/jAMGwgr.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: jazzbass on January 12, 2017, 09:13:54 PM
Glad to see new photo by jazzbass! Can you tell us about different scissors position on the pre 1946 knives?
Sure. If you'll notice in this image, only the Huntsman models (236) have the scissors on the head pin, while the Climbers (235) have it in the "normal" location on the tail pin. If you look at knives back to the early 1900s, the Spartan (205/234), Climber (235) and Camper (237) models are built almost exactly the same way they are today. A modder taking apart a modern Climber and a vintage Climber would find them very similar in construction even if the materials are different. The Huntsman, however, is a different beast. The original tool layout and layer arrangement for the Huntsman was completely different. I took some pictures of my 1905 Model 236U to illustrate how these were built:
(http://i.imgur.com/4me2fKU.jpg)
The main difference is that the main blade is in the middle of the knife, not the rear layer with the pen blade and the corkscrew like in all modern SAKs (and even the other 1, 2, and 3 layer models back then). The scissors are hinged on the head pin and in the place where the main blade usually sits. This is 100% speculation, but I think the logic was that at 4 layers, the knife was too thick to have the main blade so offset, so they wanted it in the middle of the knife. The other interesting think about the early Hunstman model is that it use three spring for four layers. The middle two layers of the main blade and woodsaw share a single large backspring between them.
This design layout lasts into the mid- to late 1930s. With the introduction of the new cap lifter tool, the Huntsman is redesigned slightly and the main blade assumes it's traditional position on the back layer with the pen blade and the scissors move to the middle layer on the shared large spring with the woodsaw where the main blade used to be. You can see this in this picture of a Hunstman I have from the late 1930s:
(http://i.imgur.com/4vfkq1n.jpg)
Layer wise this knife is organized much like a typical modern Huntsman, but you can see the scissors are still on the head pin and now are in front of the saw. This arrangement lasts until about 1941 when plastic scales are introduced. The early celluloid scaled Huntsman are still built like this one from 1939, but the later celluloid ones are where you see the regular 4 layer construction of the modern Huntsman emerge, complete with scissors on the tail pin. This happens probably around 1942-1943.
Early 84mm versions of the Huntsman (236k) were built the same way - three springs with a large shared spring in the middle.
Post by: Barry Rowland on January 12, 2017, 11:22:03 PM
Post by: jnoxyd on January 13, 2017, 08:48:16 AM
It is interesting that this wide back spring was used by other Swiss knife makers also.
WENGER (1920s ?) with the same tool layout as 236 Huntsman (1939) shown by Jazzbass:(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170113/dc73f2d6137c1741c427e25b6d98452f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170113/c7ff948df3c91483f4f546de43910adb.jpg)
SCHODER THUN (1900s ?) with main blade and wood saw on the one wide spring like at the Huntsman from 1905(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170113/b0d58e1649581ca2bd1e14737a2b9070.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170113/2f1e3ab6089b8ec02d73c95eff6c0a27.jpg)
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Post by: hiraethus on January 13, 2017, 10:19:09 AM
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 13, 2017, 12:12:29 PM
Post by: jnoxyd on January 06, 2019, 02:13:55 PM
Together with elder brother Elinox 1237
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190106/985aedb0d2627a9a3c79798cfe1352af.jpg)
Post by: Gareth on January 06, 2019, 02:16:07 PM
Post by: LeaF on January 06, 2019, 02:23:54 PM
Post by: Greg Jones on January 06, 2019, 02:36:06 PM
It's beautiful, Julius!
:iagree:
Post by: Rapidray on January 06, 2019, 03:04:47 PM
That is very nice!
Post by: FolderBeholder on January 06, 2019, 03:09:11 PM
It looks like 1960s Camper small is not very common. Here is first one I saw during last two years.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190106/67836d30a7d4f921017ba42edd4494d0.jpg)Lovely! :like:
Together with elder brother Elinox 1237
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190106/985aedb0d2627a9a3c79798cfe1352af.jpg)
Post by: VICMAN on January 06, 2019, 07:35:20 PM
It looks like 1960s Camper small is not very common. Here is first one I saw during last two years.
Together with elder brother Elinox 1237
Nice pics jnoxyd! :like: :tu: :tu:
Post by: jnoxyd on January 12, 2019, 09:27:32 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190112/98f22dd5a7f4f93933c05e8773e7d5b8.jpg)
Post by: Rapidray on January 13, 2019, 02:06:12 AM
Thanks all! Here's one more picture together with 1950s Hiker small 137 kUTwo very nice looking SAK’s :like: :tu: :cheers:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190112/98f22dd5a7f4f93933c05e8773e7d5b8.jpg)
Post by: Huntsman on February 21, 2019, 11:56:41 AM
Love the oldies and the history lessons .... and the 84mm range ..... shame it all but disappeared (well all above 2 layers)
- Thanks all for your contributions - Especially JB and JD ..... and of course FB for starting it all off