With all the other required training, like defensive tactics, firearms use, arrest/search/seizure updates, criminal law updates, first aid recertifications, driving refreshers, computer and report updates, not to mention that pesky whole doing that job, writing the reports and court time...probably REALLY low on the list of the "To Do" list;)
Not being snarky, just realistic - I barely have time in my day to get the work assigned done.
Some don't even have time to do proper firearms/batons/gear use training/security/maintenance.I know, but in case of a disaster, police officers are often first responders. And proper multi tool use can also make a difference in regular police work, saving time, money and lives.
Not personal experience but that's what I hear from friends in different law enforcement branches(?).
I just asked a buddy of mine that's a retired cop, and he said "If their too stupid to know how to use pliers and a knife, then they shouldn't be in the force." He also said there's no way in hell they'd ever put time or money towards training for it.That reply illustrates that the disaster preparedness mindset of police organisations in many countries should be improved.
His words, not mine.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I just asked a buddy of mine that's a retired cop, and he said "If their too stupid to know how to use pliers and a knife, then they shouldn't be in the force." He also said there's no way in hell they'd ever put time or money towards training for it.That reply illustrates that the disaster preparedness mindset of police organisations in many countries should be improved.
His words, not mine.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think disaster preparedness training should be part of police training, and multi tool training is just a small part of it.
A Guide to Managing Stress in Crisis Response Professions
https://store.samhsa.gov/shin/content/SMA05-4113/SMA05-4113.pdf
I think you are missing the point. Multitools do not require training. If you can't understand how and when to use something so basic then you have bigger problems. Also disaster drills are already a part of police work, I have been there and done that.
I think you are missing the point. Multitools do not require training. If you can't understand how and when to use something so basic then you have bigger problems. Also disaster drills are already a part of police work, I have been there and done that.
Many people that I know (esp. women) are not able to safely, apply and maintain multi tools, even without the stress and time pressure of dying people around them in smoke and chaos. Disaster drills for police are not standard in all countries.
Multi tools can be used in countless ways to improvise solutions in disasters, rescue situations and other emergency incidents. For example one can saw off a very thin tree, to pull out a person who fell through the ice. Or replacing a broken door lock temporarily with a steel chain or rope, or just with screws, or setting up an improvised shelter for the rain, etc.
In my experience, many police officers miss the mind set, motivation and skills to find out these creative solutions sufficiently.
Care to share with us what you do? You definitely have me interested as to what you are hoping to accomplish or develop ( training program, manual, etc ).
Care to share with us what you do? You definitely have me interested as to what you are hoping to accomplish or develop ( training program, manual, etc ).
I'm sorry. I prefer not.
I just asked a buddy of mine that's a retired cop, and he said "If their too stupid to know how to use pliers and a knife, then they shouldn't be in the force." He also said there's no way in hell they'd ever put time or money towards training for it.
His words, not mine.
His oldest son is an EMT and is currently in Fort Mac as a first responder helping the fire victims.I just asked a buddy of mine that's a retired cop, and he said "If their too stupid to know how to use pliers and a knife, then they shouldn't be in the force." He also said there's no way in hell they'd ever put time or money towards training for it.
His words, not mine.
Can his bright 20 year old granddaughter safely use and maintain a Leatherman Wave? What if she applies for police officer? If another hurricane Katrina would happen in her first years as a cop, she may be first responder, while the army and FEMA need days to deploy.
Could she save lives and property with her multi-tool by creative improvisation, technical insight and disaster knowledge, without any multi-tool training? Could she do miracles in an apocalyptic scenario?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina#Mississippi
I'm not sure you can teach inventiveness and inprovisation. You can suggest they try different options, but in the end I think it is people's imaginations that limit the function of the tools.Good thing your signature is full, cause I completely agree with you here!
I think inspiration is a more important factor than training when it comes to multitool use.
Def
I just asked a buddy of mine that's a retired cop, and he said "If their too stupid to know how to use pliers and a knife, then they shouldn't be in the force." He also said there's no way in hell they'd ever put time or money towards training for it.
I'm not sure you can teach inventiveness and inprovisation. You can suggest they try different options, but in the end I think it is people's imaginations that limit the function of the tools.
I think inspiration is a more important factor than training when it comes to multitool use.
Def
I'm not sure you can teach inventiveness and inprovisation. You can suggest they try different options, but in the end I think it is people's imaginations that limit the function of the tools.Good thing your signature is full, cause I completely agree with you here!
I think inspiration is a more important factor than training when it comes to multitool use.
Def
If someone can't naturally figure it out, than it will take WAY more than a few hours of training to embed the ideas in their heads.
I think I was having an off day then! :rofl:I'm not sure you can teach inventiveness and inprovisation. You can suggest they try different options, but in the end I think it is people's imaginations that limit the function of the tools.Good thing your signature is full, cause I completely agree with you here!
I think inspiration is a more important factor than training when it comes to multitool use.
Def
If someone can't naturally figure it out, than it will take WAY more than a few hours of training to embed the ideas in their heads.
Too late.... you agreed with me long ago!
Def
what existing multi-tools do you think could be useful in emergency settings such as the ones you describe?
Some female officers have not enough technical and survival skills I think. And some male officers tend to take too much risk I guess, like using their multitool without safety gloves, or not cutting in a safe direction.
In multi tool training police officers can also learn to sharpen the blade in the field, and to attach their multitool to their clothing with a lanyard, if it cannot easily be retained, if it would be dropped. And to clean and disinfect it with a cotton swab.
Officers should learn to inspect their multi tool for defects, like a worn out Philips driver of defect blade lock or sharp edges on the outside if folded. And how to prevent worn out screw drivers.
And officers should learn to safely unscrew nuts and bolts with their multitool, using safety gloves.
They should also be motivated to think creatively by showing them many creative uses of multitools. Like cutting rope from clothing or curtains.
And they should have basic knowledge of survival and rescue techniques in which multitools may be used.
Multi-tool training for police officers should be at least three hours once. And survival training and technical training for disaster help and rescue should be three hours yearly IMO. It costs time and money, but it may pay of in the long run.
I'm not aware of police tightening and loosening screws so much so that they honestly require this training. Fact is they rarely if ever shoot their guns however the training they receive in that regard is much more realistic and reasonable.
Are you messing with us?
Are you messing with us?
I may be misunderstood now and then, because English is not my own language. So sometimes I might choose a wrong word. That may sound funny. But I try to learn from you guys.
multitool training is (...) probably not the sort of thing that needs to be trained, because you are either interested and will work it out or you won't care and won't learn.
multitool training is (...) probably not the sort of thing that needs to be trained, because you are either interested and will work it out or you won't care and won't learn.
World-wide large companies spend a fair amount of their budget on advertisement, with help of advertisement-experts. This is done because on average it is possible to effectively influence opinions and behavor of people, with the proper expertise.
These advertisement techniques can also be applied to moral issues, or a responsible and safe lifestyle, eg via edutainment.
The same persuasive expertise can probably be applied in adapted form in persuasive multitool-, disaster- and rescue-training for police officers.
Of course, if training was to be done, this raises two other problems. Who would fund it, and who would teach it? Police forces (or any organization really) don't like to spend money on things that aren't seen as being absolutely essential, and how would you determine who is qualified to teach a multitool course? I can think of a few- maybe Tim Leatherman or Les Stroud? I mean Les seems interested in doing anything for a dollar these days (see his Camillus stuff ::)) so he might be interested, but who else would have any qualifications to to be a certified folding plier tool instructor?Possibly speSmurfpillsts from FEMA and Special Forces.
Def
What's Bear Grylls up to nowadays? :D
I'm pretty sure that in the US, it's illegal for military forces to provide training to police forces. At least, it used to be. Dunno about currently.
I stand corrected, I looked it up and my earlier post was incorrect. I thought that the Posse Comitatus Act prevented training of LEO's by the military. It doesn't.
Still, could imagine Bear's training? "Here's the scenario -you're on patrol and thirsty, but the local convienance store closed 15 minutes ago. So,what you do is....." :ahhh
I stand corrected, I looked it up and my earlier post was incorrect. I thought that the Posse Comitatus Act prevented training of LEO's by the military. It doesn't.
Still, could imagine Bear's training? "Here's the scenario - you're on patrol and thirsty, but the local convienance store closed 15 minutes ago. So, what you do is....." :ahhh
Many (experienced) multitool-forum members have wounded themselves badly whith their mult-tool. See the topics on that underneath.
Why should police officers not be informed about these risks? And why should they not be trained in the necessary preventive measures and skills? Officers have to use their multi-tools in stressful and chaotic situations, when seconds count.
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,66258.0.html
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,66259.new.html#new
http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,52801.0.html
I may be misunderstood now and then, because English is not my own language. So sometimes I might choose a wrong word. That may sound funny. But I try to learn from you guys.
World-wide large companies spend a fair amount of their budget on advertisement, with help of advertisement-experts.
Some female officers have not enough technical and survival skills I think.
Many (experienced) multitool-forum members have wounded themselves badly whith their mult-tool
This is a forum that includes women, who know and use their multis. Please refrain from comments like that.
You've made a nice sales pitch for one of the most overpriced tools leatherman makes.
Are you trying to sell law enforcement equipment? Training?
Are you trying to sell law enforcement equipment? Training?I think he is trying to sell protective gear... :D
These companies are in the business of creating products that sell. While a nice idea I can't see them spending one dime on something that isn't going to be profitable. Like it or not, that's business.Such can be funded by governments, NGO's, non-profit-foundations, idealistic individuals, etc.
I have no commercial interest in my forum-posts.Are you trying to sell law enforcement equipment? Training?I think he is trying to sell protective gear... :D
Naw I am telling you North Korean spy :DAre you trying to sell law enforcement equipment? Training?I think he is trying to sell protective gear... :D
In any case, I think the OP is putting way too much faith in multi-tools.
What if find interesting is are we talking a general training? Not every country has the same rules for their police. Heck not all officers carry the same gear let alone have the same protocols.I am talking all officers world-wide. They can get partly the same training and education, and partly training that is tuned into their specific region and function. Officers in for example bush-land in South Africa, have partly different needs and challenges than officers in the business district of London.
Are we talking YOUR police officers or ALL police officers?
I may be totally wrong but the police in Brasil for example have some protocols that lets say those in the UK may not have. With that I'd imagine rural officers vs city officers would need different training.
I am talking all officers world-wide. They can get partly the same training and education, and partly training that is tuned into their specific region and function. Officers in for example bush-land in South Africa, have partly different needs and challenges than officers in the business district of London.Not to mention different backgrounds.
:salute:As you say, with firearms there is the same problem. Here, people without military background need to do an extra course, but there is only so many extra courses you can make.
Great point Ether.
With so many backgrounds of those entering law enforcement how would one set up training? What would be covered? Basic maybe too basic for some yet too advanced for someone with no tool experience ( like Ethers example ).
I'd imagine not all officers get firearm training worldwide :think: Those coming out of the military will have had experience with firearms over those who come from say college ( I'm generalizing ).
Ok so general training, got it. Well based off that then each country and each precinct would have to make the determination as to what MT would be best for their officers. A city officer would not want nor need the same MT as a rural one.
This could become very challenging trying to develop a "manual" that would address training for all officers. It would be interesting for officers issued a Skeletool RX who worked in the country where a saw would see more use than a glass breaker. A city officer might need a variety of tools where as a county officer might need less, or vice versa.
Teaching how to use a MT for each country and each precinct would be quite a task. No one tool would be best for ALL officers. Basic how to use a plier or knife blade or drivers I know is not what you had in mind.
Training however would be very specific to what that officer encountered daily. With all the city scapes worldwide I can only imagine the undertaking. What about those officers stationed in snow, beach, remote, mountain, and any other locations?
I see now that specific job related training is what you are after. Or is it?
I think the guys are thinking you are talking training as far as how to use a MT. I see now that you are talking about very specific training.
I imagine riding with a seasoned officer would be best for rookies. I wouldn't think they'd be let loose without learning the "ropes" in the field along side a veteran.
So general training then, what shall these rookies be taught? In the earlier posts it was mentioned that more specific training was needed. Very specific training was required.
As I began to give this more thought I can see unlike firearm or non lethal weapon training MT training falls into the handcuff training area. How much selfdefense training do officers receive? I'd think theyd need more along those lines.
Lastly, I told a story of loaning some tools to some officers a long while back. They busted a hose and called it in and were waiting.
I'd imagine this is pretty standard operating procedure. I'd think they are not typically going to be wrenching around in their cars.
Anyway, I handed them some tools and off they went. They drove back to my vehicle thanking me and gave me the tools back.
MT or not, training or not, these guys clearly knew their way around cars.
Ok, I know I'm new here and this thread is several weeks old, but it popped up at the top of the board for some reason. I read it a couple of hours ago and went on about my business but can't get it out of my mind. The more I think about it the more irritated I get so I'm going to say my peace and move on.
Rico, I have read three pages of this thread now and like others still have no idea what your real issue is. I have come to the conclusion though that you have a very low opinion of both women and law enforcement. I fall into both groups and am truly offended by some of your comments. You are entitled to your opinion no matter how misguided it is.
As someone else already stated, if you need training on how to use a multitool you are too stupid to be a LEO. In fact if you need training to use a multitool you are probably just too stupid to function effectively in life and will probably be in need of someone else's emergency training at some point in life. The ability to use a MT (or anything else) for purposes it wasn't obviously designed for involves problem solving and critical thinking skills. To a large extent these are skills that can't be taught. So MT training would largely be a waste of time and money, two things most law enforcement agencies are lacking.
The type of training you keep referring to is more military, search and rescue, or survival related. This is not the primary job of the police in most places.
Your opinion of women is very disturbing. Any woman who can use a kitchen knife can use a MT knife. I've never seen a woman struggle to open one. It's not hard. Perhaps if you have you should have done the gentlemanly thing and offered her some oil for it. The problem was most likely the tool, not her. In the US women who want to be police officers undergo the same training as the men do. I am going to assume it is the same in most developed countries. Obviously I am not physically as strong as most of my male coworkers. Law enforcement is not all about physical strength. It is best to prevent a situation that requires physical force whenever possible. Most women are much better at talking a situation down before it gets out of control than the average man.
Law enforcement is a very demanding job both mentally and physically. I assure you it is not done by people who are challenged by the average multitool.
Where are you from? If the police where you live are really so incompetent that they would benefit from multi tool training, I would suggest you go to the powers that be and let them know that you would like your local police to be hired based on training and qualifications and NOT on the nepotism and bribery system.
Ok, I know I'm new here and this thread is several weeks old, but it popped up at the top of the board for some reason. I read it a couple of hours ago and went on about my business but can't get it out of my mind. The more I think about it the more irritated I get so I'm going to say my peace and move on.
Rico, I have read three pages of this thread now and like others still have no idea what your real issue is. I have come to the conclusion though that you have a very low opinion of both women and law enforcement. I fall into both groups and am truly offended by some of your comments. You are entitled to your opinion no matter how misguided it is.
Your opinion of women is very disturbing. Any woman who can use a kitchen knife can use a MT knife. I've never seen a woman struggle to open one. It's not hard. Perhaps if you have you should have done the gentlemanly thing and offered her some oil for it. The problem was most likely the tool, not her. In the US women who want to be police officers undergo the same training as the men do.
I agree with you 100% here. But there is no way to train for every possible scenario. Every situation is different. This goes back to my point about critical thinking and problem solving. Also the ability to think under pressure. Some people are able to do this, some are not. It is not necessarily a matter of intelligence. My mother is an incredibly intelligent woman but she would be the first to tell you she doesn't work well under pressure. No amount of training can significantly alter someone's personality and mental makeup.
Yes, if your making a genuine post and not just f'ing with people we can find mutual respect and agree to disagree.
Law enforcement is a very demanding job both mentally and physically. I assure you it is not done by people who are challenged by the average multitool.
Hi flbeachbum
Welcome to the forum and great post - Your comments and thinking are in line with most of us here
But it is really, really great to get a view from someone who, as you say, is in both groups and on the inside - Something we were lacking before.
This sums it up brilliantly....Law enforcement is a very demanding job both mentally and physically. I assure you it is not done by people who are challenged by the average multitool.
Don't go looking for any more of Rico's crazy threads - you'll be even more perplexed (I chose that word carefully and somewhat inaccurately) !!
And keep up the great work you do - Thank you for that
Warm petroleum jelly? Do I even need to say it? ::)
Not to mention if you want a food safe lubricant you can use mineral oil.
flbeachbum :salute:
Be safe out there and thank you for the job you do.
Thanks for the welcome and kind words guys. Much appreciated.
Just to be clear, I am currently a Corrections Officer at a state prison. That is "prison guard" for some of you. I was a police officer for a couple of years. When I moved to FL I chose not to go through the police academy again for several reasons. I am still considered sworn law enforcement. Just don't want to give the impression I am pretending to be something I am not.
I have nothing to add to the subject, but I have to say, theres quite a lot of hostility towards Rico2 in this (and many other) thread. So he is a bit persistent, and single minded. So what? The single most positive thing about this forum is its friendliness, and inclusiveness.
I would strongly encourage everyone to step back a moment, and reflect on what Rico is doing, and has done. He has devoted quite a lot of time recently towards this forum, and if he had an ulterior motive, it would have certainly been revealed. There is no cause for suspicion or hostility, and frankly I strongly dislike some of the tones used in this thread. It is not the MT.o way.
If you find something insulting, please, do the decent thing and make a PM. If you disagree, do so, but leave the bad feelings out of it. Rico has done nothing to cause harm or malice. If you are truly tired of discussing law enforcement with him, do the right thing, and just ignore it, rather than post angry messages.
LikeI Like your Like. ;)
I like you liking my like :tu:
Like
I have nothing to add to the subject, but I have to say, theres quite a lot of hostility towards Rico2 in this (and many other) thread. So he is a bit persistent, and single minded. So what? The single most positive thing about this forum is its friendliness, and inclusiveness.
I would strongly encourage everyone to step back a moment, and reflect on what Rico is doing, and has done. He has devoted quite a lot of time recently towards this forum, and if he had an ulterior motive, it would have certainly been revealed. There is no cause for suspicion or hostility, and frankly I strongly dislike some of the tones used in this thread. It is not the MT.o way.
If you find something insulting, please, do the decent thing and make a PM. If you disagree, do so, but leave the bad feelings out of it. Rico has done nothing to cause harm or malice. If you are truly tired of discussing law enforcement with him, do the right thing, and just ignore it, rather than post angry messages.
You are correct sLaughtermed :salute: He has a different way of looking at things for sure but he does put a lot in his posts when he does post :tu: Not knowing where he is from doesn't help us understand his background and may even confuse a little bit but yes MTO is a place for all to be respected :cheers:
Like
LikeI Like your Like. ;)
I like you liking my like :tu:
I like you liking my like :tu:
I like you liking him liking your like.
Guess we need that like-button back.
Broad 'merican mode on-
" And then it was like everyone liked everyones likes, like liking was like... you should just like likes with a like... and I went like ... you know ... I just like it!"
I like the liking of writing like it is double plus likeful than liking with a like button.
like
lice
lick
It will be like awesome when we like get the like button back :DLike, totally.
These threads are getting whackier and whackier.I think the thread was whacky from the start... It just managed to attract more weirdos. :P
:rofl:
These threads are getting whackier and whackier.I think the thread was whacky from the start... It just managed to attract more weirdos. :P
:rofl:
These threads are getting whackier and whackier.
:rofl:
Some don't even have time to do proper firearms/batons/gear use training/security/maintenance.
Not personal experience but that's what I hear from friends in different law enforcement branches(?).
Some don't even have time to do proper firearms/batons/gear use training/security/maintenance.
Not personal experience but that's what I hear from friends in different law enforcement branches(?).
Yes as a Retired Police Officer I will tell you that other than the recert one time a year most Police Officers don't even touch their firearm other than resting your hand on it LOL, I always thought that we should get more training but Departments don't like shelling out money for training or ammo with the prices that ammo is these day's....
I definitely agree with grant. :ahhh :ahhh :ahhhSome don't even have time to do proper firearms/batons/gear use training/security/maintenance.
Not personal experience but that's what I hear from friends in different law enforcement branches(?).
Yes as a Retired Police Officer I will tell you that other than the recert one time a year most Police Officers don't even touch their firearm other than resting your hand on it LOL, I always thought that we should get more training but Departments don't like shelling out money for training or ammo with the prices that ammo is these day's....
Silly budgets....
I suppose that is what it all comes down to though-police could/should get more training in a lot of things, but there's just no one willing to pay for it, and even if there was, teaching them how to use a pair of pliers is probably way down the priority list!
Def
I am talking all officers world-wide. They can get partly the same training and education, and partly training that is tuned into their specific region and function. Officers in for example bush-land in South Africa, have partly different needs and challenges than officers in the business district of London.