Multitool.org Forum
Outdoor Section => The Outdoor and Survival Forum => Topic started by: Hedge Kid on January 08, 2010, 04:07:16 PM
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Hi Guys,
I'm considering getting an air rifle for hunting small game and wondered if anyone has any advice. I've never bought or owned one before as I learned to shoot many years ago on a Theoben Rapid 7. It was a fantastic gun and great for hunting small game. I've had a little look for them and can't seem to find them on sale. Similar Theoben guns seem to be around the £800 mark with is waaaaaay out of my price range.
So, does anyone know of a similar rifle - light, easy to load, fires multiple shots, suitable for a small framed woman - that is in a realistic price range?
Thanks in advance :tu:
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I was all set to offer some options until you mentioned 'multiple shots' :-\
I'll pm Chris as he works in a outdoors/gun shop :)
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Thanks Mike. Any advice is appreciated really...it's been a while since I had anything to do with shooting.
The multiple shots thing works like this: http://www.theoben.co.uk/product.php?productid=62&cat=11&page=1 scroll down to the bottom of the page and it show's pictures of the little cartridge.
It makes it much easier when out hunting. Particularly when you have cold hands!
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Ive only had a Crossman el cheapo when i was a kid. The kind you pump up before each shot...i was a mini-felon with that rifle. :D
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Thanks Mike. Any advice is appreciated really...it's been a while since I had anything to do with shooting.
The multiple shots thing works like this: http://www.theoben.co.uk/product.php?productid=62&cat=11&page=1 scroll down to the bottom of the page and it show's pictures of the little cartridge.
It makes it much easier when out hunting. Particularly when you have cold hands!
Yeah but it's a PCP, and there never cheap :-\
I think BSA did a spring powered 10 shot hunting rifle a few years back, but I can't remember what it was called :think:
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@ Mike. It was called the Goldstar.
@ Hedge Kid. Hi there, there's a ton of choice these days. Is it a precharged rifle you're after? If so, they are pretty expensive these days but there is a whole slew of multishots that are cheaper than the Rapid ( most are :D ) Anything by Air Arms is a good safe bet eg. S200 with the multishot option or the S410 Carbine. The Air Arms S400 Carbine singleshot can be converted to m/shot with the Rowan Engineering manual magazine accessory.The charging equipment, pump or bottle is pricey too. Your only reasonably priced non precharged m/shot option would be the Umarex 850 Air Magnum Co2 powered rifle which has an 8 shot mag. If I can be any further help just ask or PM me.
Chris.
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Wierauch makes some nice stuff , superb triggers and build quality . The Model 100 Carbine is a very nice and very accurate piece of kit . Don't know about UK prices , possibly worth looking at . It has a very nice sound sopressor , and works well in hunter class field target . It comes with 10 12 and single magazines . The repeater function is very reliable .
Check out Airguns BBS , lots of info .
Chris
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Hi everyone and thanks for your answers. Now you may need to translate them :D
Mike: What's a PCP?
@ Mike. It was called the Goldstar.
@ Hedge Kid. Hi there, there's a ton of choice these days. Is it a precharged rifle you're after? If so, they are pretty expensive these days but there is a whole slew of multishots that are cheaper than the Rapid ( most are :D ) Anything by Air Arms is a good safe bet eg. S200 with the multishot option or the S410 Carbine. The Air Arms S400 Carbine singleshot can be converted to m/shot with the Rowan Engineering manual magazine accessory.The charging equipment, pump or bottle is pricey too. Your only reasonably priced non precharged m/shot option would be the Umarex 850 Air Magnum Co2 powered rifle which has an 8 shot mag. If I can be any further help just ask or PM me.
Chris.
That sounds like a very comprehensive answer, if only I understood half of it! To be honest, I don't really know what my options are. The Theoben is the only gun I've used and I know very little about it other than it was easy to use and I want one! It was also a very long time ago. What are the benefits of precharged and....erm, not precharged.
Really I think I need a beginners guide to air rifles - a breakdown of basic types and benefits. I'm still at the "what do I want and why is that?" stage rather than the "Which one shall I buy?" stage.
I thought I was at the which one shall I buy stage and then I read your post and realised that I have a whole lot of research to do first (and seemingly a considerable amount of saving!)
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PCP means Pre Charged Pneumatic :)
If your fairly new to airgun's, and want fairly limited maintenance, I'd go for a spring gun, as there usually a fair bit simpler and with a lot less to go wrong too :)
The downside to springers is that they have recoil, and some have some fairly odd balance shifts at the moment of firing that you might need to take account of :)
Pneumatics tend to be lighter, but usually take a fair bit of effort on your part to get them to sufficient power for hunting purposes (6 to 12 pumps), and usually cost more in the first place :-\
Pre-charged are not really novice friendly imo, and need a fair bit of speSmurfpillst equipment (ie gas bottles) and are usually mega bucks :o
I've been out of the loop for a while so things may have changed, but I think that's still broadly relevant :think:
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PCP the best route if you can afford it . They are pretty user friendly if you get the right kit . Be sure to get a regulated one , so pressure remains the same shot to shot . Get one with a good trigger . You will probably end up with some kind of SCUBA tank , as that is the easiest way to fill them with good dry air . In my hayday I had three PCP match pistols , a 10m match rifle , and a Biathalon trainer , The pistols could be filled of a foot pump with an air dryer , the rifles were a PITA till I got a SCUBA tank .
Frankly , mine never gave me any maintenance headaches . They were all Steyr's . Weirhauch is also very solid and stable . No slap at you Pommy Bastids , but I have more faith in German / austrian QC .
Chris
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Hi everyone and thanks for your answers. Now you may need to translate them :D
Mike: What's a PCP?
@ Mike. It was called the Goldstar.
@ Hedge Kid. Hi there, there's a ton of choice these days. Is it a precharged rifle you're after? If so, they are pretty expensive these days but there is a whole slew of multishots that are cheaper than the Rapid ( most are :D ) Anything by Air Arms is a good safe bet eg. S200 with the multishot option or the S410 Carbine. The Air Arms S400 Carbine singleshot can be converted to m/shot with the Rowan Engineering manual magazine accessory.The charging equipment, pump or bottle is pricey too. Your only reasonably priced non precharged m/shot option would be the Umarex 850 Air Magnum Co2 powered rifle which has an 8 shot mag. If I can be any further help just ask or PM me.
Chris.
That sounds like a very comprehensive answer, if only I understood half of it! To be honest, I don't really know what my options are. The Theoben is the only gun I've used and I know very little about it other than it was easy to use and I want one! It was also a very long time ago. What are the benefits of precharged and....erm, not precharged.
Really I think I need a beginners guide to air rifles - a breakdown of basic types and benefits. I'm still at the "what do I want and why is that?" stage rather than the "Which one shall I buy?" stage.
I thought I was at the which one shall I buy stage and then I read your post and realised that I have a whole lot of research to do first (and seemingly a considerable amount of saving!)
Hedgekid, the Theoben Rapid is a precharged pneumatic air rifle. Translated this refers to an air rifle that needs to be fed air at very high pressure ie. round about 3000psi. This is what powers the rifle. Because the air is at such high pressure the rifle can only be refilled using certain equipment ie. a divers bottle or a special stirrup pump. If you own one of these rifles you also need the charging equipment in order to refill the gun after a certain number of shots.
The advantage of one of these rifles is 1. the lack of recoil on firing which equals easier accuracy 2. With a silencer fitted, they are the quietest type of air rifle which equals more success on live quarry 3. They are available as multishots ie magazine fed.
The disadvantage is only the cost really. For a new single shot PCP fitted with scope and silencer plus charging gear you are looking at roughly £600.00 upwards. A multishot PCP setup will add another £70.00 to the skys the limit.
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Last year I bought my first adult air rifle, a Ruger Air Hawk (http://www.pyramydair.com/p/ruger-air-hawk-air-rifle.shtml). Price was just under $100 USD. I realize you are looking for a multiple shot rifle but a single shot seems quite sporting. Here in Texas, you can not hunt with an air rifle but it is fine for pest control (rats, gophers, crows) which is why I bought it. At around 1000 fps with the right ammo, it is a hard hitting little bugger. The particular model I picked up has a hardwood stock and is quite heavy. I like it though.
Good luck with your search! BTW, what do y'all hunt with air rifles in the UK?
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Last year I bought my first adult air rifle, a Ruger Air Hawk (http://www.pyramydair.com/p/ruger-air-hawk-air-rifle.shtml). Price was just under $100 USD. I realize you are looking for a multiple shot rifle but a single shot seems quite sporting. Here in Texas, you can not hunt with an air rifle but it is fine for pest control (rats, gophers, crows) which is why I bought it. At around 1000 fps with the right ammo, it is a hard hitting little bugger. The particular model I picked up has a hardwood stock and is quite heavy. I like it though.
Good luck with your search! BTW, what do y'all hunt with air rifles in the UK?
We have them in the UK as well now. Not at 1000fps though :D
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Yeah. In Canada, you are restricted to 500fps as the cutoff point. At or above that, you need a license.
I have a Benjamin model B5M22PX, which is a single shot break barrel spring pellet gun. Because I am restricted to 495 feet, I decided to get a 22 cal pellet because I bought it to eliminate any rodent infestations in the garage.
The scope on this is excellent. Once I am sighted in, the pest stands no chance. A 22 cal pellet is hard hitting at those velocities, and I found the noise not to be a pain, as I am often far enough away from them that it matters little.
So if you are looking for a cheaper single shot easy to maintain pellet rifle with a wicked awesome scope, then look to Benjamin as an option. Not sure of availability in the UK though. Just a though.
By the way, I have noticed that if you are properly sighted in, it is usually one shot one kill.
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Thanks guys. Now I don't feel like I'm flailing around in jargon!
I feel torn really. The sensible part of me thinks that I should go for a simple spring charger or pneumatic and learn how it works and how to clean and maintain it yadda yadda and work my way up to a PCP. Be sensible and learn how to fix and repair before I graduate onto a more expensive gun.
However, the part of me that is short of time and patience and a bit of a princess wants the shiny one that costs over £600 :ahhh I hear your point Mike about them not being for beginners but I'm a fast learner and I'm sure that what I knew before will come flooding back to me once I get started *crosses fingers*
I also particularly liked the fact that as I was learning and moved onto live targets, if I didn't get a clean shot, I could very quickly finish the creature off with minimal pain. Having to reload and fiddle about would mean the poor thing would limp off for a slow and painful death (and not end up in my oven).
I suppose I can answer both texasflyfisher's question and my own simultaneously! I would mostly be hunting small game: rabbits, geese, pigeons etc The idea is to start looking into ways to supplement our lifestyle in as many cost effective ways as possible. So we have an allotment to grow as much veg as we can. Meat is expensive and although I love it, I don't agree with the meat trade. I wanted to get a nice rifle and go and thin out the areas where the animals above are becoming a problem and thus supply us with fresh meat that's not full of hormones. It's what I did when I stopped being vegetarian about 15 years ago.
Really for the amount of small game/meat that I'm likely to get, I have to work out if the gun would pay for itself quickly enough. I think (with a rapidly growing Son of HedgeKid in the house) that it would pay for itself in about 6 months.
How much is the refilling kit? I'm presuming that you can get the bottles from BOC but wouldn't have the first clue where to source the regulator and filling nozzle etc (list of what's needed would be appreciated!)
Thanks for all this advice. It's really starting to come together in my head. :cheers:
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Sounds like you know what you want.
What is the max allowable FPS in the UK?
I can only say from experience based upon my limit of 495 FPS (It is amazing at how in Canada, they sell just below the PAL requirements for most air guns). That a .177 pellet will bounce off of most feathers at that velocity.
Now the .22 caliber is a far larger pellet with enough weight to cause plenty of damage.
I think you should think about what caliber of pellet will meet your needs and select a gun accordingly.
I found this info. It is an interesting read.
http://www.air-rifle.net/selecting/selecting.html
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How much is the refilling kit? I'm presuming that you can get the bottles from BOC but wouldn't have the first clue where to source the regulator and filling nozzle etc (list of what's needed would be appreciated!)
A decent gun shop should stock all you need including the charging gear. Here's a rough price guide for a full setup, based around the Air Arms S200 PCP rifle. The S200 is distributed by the Air Arms company who are based in the UK. It is a small, light rifle that is very highly regarded! It's a single shot bolt action that can be converted to a multishot by the purchase of the Air Arms ten shot magazine add on.
Air Arms S200 £380.00
Air Arms Silencer £40.00
Air Arms 10-shot magazine add on £70.00
Variable Magnification Telescopic Sight (3-9x40 )
plus the required mounts to attach it to the gun £50.00
Stirrup Pump £130.00
3 Litre Diving Cylinder £140.00
All PCP rifles come with their own charging connector. This is a fitting that you attach to your pump or dive cylinder and is then attached to the gun allowing you to refill with air. These days a pump or cylinder will come with it's own guage and air hose so all you need is the charging connector that comes with the gun. A cylinder is the easier but more expensive option. BUT if you are reasonably fit, the pump is worth considering!
If you buy secondhand you can save up to about 35% on new prices.
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Right, that's it - you can't have one - too many sheckles :o
We can live off lentils instead :D
This has the added benefit of us consequently being able to heat the house on the methane generated ;)
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Right, that's it - you can't have one - too many sheckles :o
We can live off lentils instead :D
This has the added benefit of us consequently being able to heat the house on the methane generated ;)
It might stop the pesky, Brummie copper visiting too :D
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Brummie copper? Dare I ask? :think:
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Brummie copper? Dare I ask? :think:
It's Flash from on here :D
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Oh I see. :D
I had to do a quick Google check and found that Brummie is a dialect spoken in or around Birmingham, and well copper means police.
So I figured a Birmingham Policeman...but then I started to think about other meanings..and figured I just didn't have a clue. :D
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There's so many Brit's on this forum, sometimes I forget that not all you ''Johnnie Foreigners'' understand me :D
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Sometimes we struggle to understand you too, but we try because we love you :D
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Sometimes we struggle to understand you too, but we try because we love you :D
Love you too schnookums x :D
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LOL... oh boy, looks like we both need some sleep eh?
I haven't bothered trying thus far but it's o'dark hundred and bed is calling.
Hope you manage to get some too!
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LOL... oh boy, looks like we both need some sleep eh?
I haven't bothered trying thus far but it's o'dark hundred and bed is calling.
Hope you manage to get some too!
Nah, sleep's for lesser people :D
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LOL... oh boy, looks like we both need some sleep eh?
I haven't bothered trying thus far but it's o'dark hundred and bed is calling.
Hope you manage to get some too!
Nah, sleep's for lesser people :D
And traditionally not for psychopathic world leaders.
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LOL... oh boy, looks like we both need some sleep eh?
I haven't bothered trying thus far but it's o'dark hundred and bed is calling.
Hope you manage to get some too!
Nah, sleep's for lesser people :D
And traditionally not for psychopathic world leaders.
Actually Churchill never slept well either :)
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LOL... oh boy, looks like we both need some sleep eh?
I haven't bothered trying thus far but it's o'dark hundred and bed is calling.
Hope you manage to get some too!
Nah, sleep's for lesser people :D
And traditionally not for psychopathic world leaders.
Actually Churchill never slept well either :)
So, non-psychopath cigar smokers too eh?
Still can't figure out why I don't sleep - I rarely smoke cigars :think: >:D
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LOL... oh boy, looks like we both need some sleep eh?
I haven't bothered trying thus far but it's o'dark hundred and bed is calling.
Hope you manage to get some too!
Nah, sleep's for lesser people :D
And traditionally not for psychopathic world leaders.
Actually Churchill never slept well either :)
So, non-psychopath cigar smokers too eh?
Still can't figure out why I don't sleep - I rarely smoke cigars :think: >:D
The whole thing makes no sense :think:
Surely on some level your mind know's it's self destructive not to get any kip!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppOXpyhM2wA
:D
Mike
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How much is the refilling kit? I'm presuming that you can get the bottles from BOC but wouldn't have the first clue where to source the regulator and filling nozzle etc (list of what's needed would be appreciated!)
A decent gun shop should stock all you need including the charging gear. Here's a rough price guide for a full setup, based around the Air Arms S200 PCP rifle. The S200 is distributed by the Air Arms company who are based in the UK. It is a small, light rifle that is very highly regarded! It's a single shot bolt action that can be converted to a multishot by the purchase of the Air Arms ten shot magazine add on.
Air Arms S200 £380.00
Air Arms Silencer £40.00
Air Arms 10-shot magazine add on £70.00
Variable Magnification Telescopic Sight (3-9x40 )
plus the required mounts to attach it to the gun £50.00
Stirrup Pump £130.00
3 Litre Diving Cylinder £140.00
All PCP rifles come with their own charging connector. This is a fitting that you attach to your pump or dive cylinder and is then attached to the gun allowing you to refill with air. These days a pump or cylinder will come with it's own guage and air hose so all you need is the charging connector that comes with the gun. A cylinder is the easier but more expensive option. BUT if you are reasonably fit, the pump is worth considering!
If you buy secondhand you can save up to about 35% on new prices.
That's fantastic thank you! The lazy part of me wants to ask how many charges you get out of a 3 litre bottle but the part of me that weighed myself this morning thinks that the stirrup pump is by far the best option!
Will that one take .22 pellets?
Thanks again for such comprehensive answers. You're a star :cheers:
Right, that's it - you can't have one - too many sheckles :o
We can live off lentils instead :D
This has the added benefit of us consequently being able to heat the house on the methane generated ;)
Ahem, what about the rule of not butting in on each others threads and bringing money and realism into the equation hmmmm :twak:
If you want to be around a teenage boy that's living on lentils, be my guest!!!
There.will.be.a.gun. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppOXpyhM2wA
:D
Mike
Love it :D
You know that's the only thing that's going to be going through my head when I get my gun don't you! :D Ya meany
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Sounds like you know what you want.
What is the max allowable FPS in the UK?
I can only say from experience based upon my limit of 495 FPS (It is amazing at how in Canada, they sell just below the PAL requirements for most air guns). That a .177 pellet will bounce off of most feathers at that velocity.
Now the .22 caliber is a far larger pellet with enough weight to cause plenty of damage.
I think you should think about what caliber of pellet will meet your needs and select a gun accordingly.
I found this info. It is an interesting read.
http://www.air-rifle.net/selecting/selecting.html
Thanks for that link Chaco, I'll give it a read when it's not so late :cheers:
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She says I'm not allowed in her thread any more.... goodbye everybody :cry:
I'll miss you all...
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Well in the spirit of helping by providing information Hedgekid ;) there is a limit in the UK on the amount of power an airgun can produce. This is 12ftlbs which = about 570feet per second with the average .22 pellet and about 780 fps with the average .177 pellet. Above this limit you will need what's known as an FAC (Firearms Certificate ) An air rifle just under the legal limit is perfectly suitable for humane pest control out to 35 metres or so. The effective humane range is obviously determined by the user's ability.
Calibre choice is tricky, but .177 calibre is just as humane as .22 if used correctly and there are some advantages.
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Not meaning to pee on anyone's parade , but it takes a lot of practice to be able to take small game with any airgun . I'm talking thousands of rounds , depending on aptitude . Try and find a local club that does hunter class field target. This is fun in and of itself , plus it gives you a chance to handle the guns first hand . The UK practically invented field target , shouldn't be too hard .
Chris
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Not meaning to pee on anyone's parade , but it takes a lot of practice to be able to take small game with any airgun . I'm talking thousands of rounds , depending on aptitude . Try and find a local club that does hunter class field target. This is fun in and of itself , plus it gives you a chance to handle the guns first hand . The UK practically invented field target , shouldn't be too hard .
Chris
Good advice :tu: No one is advocating going into pest control unprepared though.
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There's a special airguns basics type article in the current (February) edition of Airgun World. It's written by Jim Tyler, my favourite airgun writer :) Might be worth a look.
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There's a special airguns basics type article in the current (February) edition of Airgun World. It's written by Jim Tyler, my favourite airgun writer :) Might be worth a look.
I'll have to see if I can get a copy :tu:
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There's a special airguns basics type article in the current (February) edition of Airgun World. It's written by Jim Tyler, my favourite airgun writer :) Might be worth a look.
I'll have to see if I can get a copy :tu:
WH Smiths stock it :)
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Well in the spirit of helping by providing information Hedgekid ;) there is a limit in the UK on the amount of power an airgun can produce. This is 12ftlbs which = about 570feet per second with the average .22 pellet and about 780 fps with the average .177 pellet. Above this limit you will need what's known as an FAC (Firearms Certificate ) An air rifle just under the legal limit is perfectly suitable for humane pest control out to 35 metres or so. The effective humane range is obviously determined by the user's ability.
Calibre choice is tricky, but .177 calibre is just as humane as .22 if used correctly and there are some advantages.
What would you say the advantages are of using.177 instead of.22 then?
She says I'm not allowed in her thread any more.... goodbye everybody :cry:
I'll miss you all...
Don't be silly, as long as you don't talk about money and realism you are more than welcome :pok:
Not meaning to pee on anyone's parade , but it takes a lot of practice to be able to take small game with any airgun . I'm talking thousands of rounds , depending on aptitude . Try and find a local club that does hunter class field target. This is fun in and of itself , plus it gives you a chance to handle the guns first hand . The UK practically invented field target , shouldn't be too hard .
Chris
Any advice gratefully received Chris, there's no parade to pee on :)
You make a good point. Thankfully I've had considerable experience of shooting small game (albeit a while ago now) - I just didn't pay any attention to the actual mechanics of the gun! It's the shopping that's a problem, not the shooting!
To put your mind at rest, I do intend to shake the rust off with some target practice before I go near any live targets. Otherwise it would be a very inefficient hunt!
There's a special airguns basics type article in the current (February) edition of Airgun World. It's written by Jim Tyler, my favourite airgun writer :) Might be worth a look.
Thanks Craig, I'll pop in to WHSmiths on my way home and see if I can get a copy :tu:
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I seriously hope this "target practice" you speak of does have anything to do with me running naked through the local park at dusk again :ahhh
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I seriously hope this "target practice" you speak of does have anything to do with me running naked through the local park at dusk again :ahhh
:pok: Aw gwaaaan. Be supportive. You know that a moving target is the best ;) >:D
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I seriously hope this "target practice" you speak of does have anything to do with me running naked through the local park at dusk again :ahhh
Again? :o
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I seriously hope this "target practice" you speak of does have anything to do with me running naked through the local park at dusk again :ahhh
:pok: Aw gwaaaan. Be supportive. You know that a moving target is the best ;) >:D
We'll want piccies :drool: :drool:
As for the relative merits, Well .177 shoot's along a much flatter trajectory, so range estimation is less critical :)
.22 have generally better knock down power, but at the expense of a rainbow like (relatively) flight path :)
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As a general rule .177's group tighter . When the kill zone is small , group size matters . 5mm is another option , only pellets are tuffer to come by . Forget knockdown power , you are restricted to 12ft.lbs. ( a .22 rimfire IIRC is 73-90 ft.lbs. ) . It's all about accuracy , otherwise you would all be using the old skool .25 airguns .
Chris