Multitool.org Forum
Tool Talk => Swiss Army Knights Forum => Topic started by: Rodion on June 06, 2008, 09:00:53 PM
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This (http://www.donrearic.com/fightingmultitool.html) guy created a whole martial arts system around it. :o
(http://www.donrearic.com/images/Multi-ToolPicTwo.jpg)
Here's a particularly juicy exerpt:
Grabbing someone’s testicles and other assorted "objects" with a pair of pliers is going to be a peculiar form of agony to anyone on the receiving end of such a counterattack. No vivid imagination is required. If someone wants to grapple and they are going to try to break your ankle or some other bone because they think it is "cool" or something, crush, twist and pull on one of their testes with a pair of pliers...see if that gets their attention.
I wonder what he'd think about the Powerlock...
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I've always wondered what the hand of a mall ninja really looked like. Now I know. :D
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I've always wondered what the hand of a mall ninja really looked like. Now I know. :D
LMAO! :cheers:
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I think it was Ringzero that brought this up before. He has some interesting concepts. :)
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Yes I saw this years ago and I think I have a print out of it somewhere . Its very interesting and can only be done with the std Swisstool . Oh and it does absolutely nothing to help EDCing one of these in the UK >:(
Dunc
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I've never seen this before.. I agree with Dunc, this is something that will make multitools banned! :-X
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A Swisstool(or any good sized multi-tool) might make a decent improvised kubaton but if you have enough time to pull those blades open like that a jury will wonder how come you didn't have enough time to run.
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DTH, did you ever trade Samson for his SwissTool?
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This (http://www.donrearic.com/fightingmultitool.html) guy created a whole martial arts system around it. :o
I stumbled across this guy's site while searching for info on the old Kamp King boy-scout-style knives.
Since then I've read maybe half of his articles.
Some of his articles are reviews of various knives, with an emphasis on defensive use. He advocates a defensive style based on various martial arts systems from the Phillipines. Since I have no background in and little knowledge of said martial arts, I'm not really competent to comment on those articles.
However, a lot of his articles are just basic advice on using common EDC objects (flashlights, multitools, coin rolls, etc.) for self defense. Those articles are pretty good, IMHO. Mostly common sense, but still offering some good insights into defensive use of everday objects.
It might be beneficial to actually take the time to read some of the guy's articles before ridiculing him.
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This (http://www.donrearic.com/fightingmultitool.html) guy created a whole martial arts system around it. :o
It might be beneficial to actually take the time to read some of the guy's articles before ridiculing him.
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No one is ridiculing him its just not a healthy thing to promote the Swisstool as a self defence weapon in the UK . You are not allowed to carry anything for self defence here . Its not a new law or anything its always been like that . I thought it was a goood article was not intended for the UK anyway ( theres no harm in reading it though ;) ) . Mind you by the time you got the Swisstool out opened the blade turned it over to open the other blade you probably already on your way to the next world :o I'd rather be 300 yrds down the road with smoke coming off my trainers . I think he does mention the use of a large mag lite , thats more like it :D
Dunc
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Mind you by the time you got the Swisstool out opened the blade turned it over to open the other blade you probably already on your way to the next world :o I'd rather be 300 yrds down the road with smoke coming off my trainers . I think he does mention the use of a large mag lite , thats more like it :D
Actually in his multitool article, his first piece of advice is to run away from conflict if possible.
If surprise attacked, he advises using a multitool as a simple fistload (weight gripped in the fist) for striking.
Another scenario assumes a suprise attack while you are working on a car with a multi, in which case he advises using whatever implement you have open when attacked.
The part on using purposefully deployed implements was predicated on a scenario of having been pursued off a road and into the woods by several attackers.
You say that scenario sounds unlikely? Well, that happened to me once - years ago. Luckily, I was able to elude my attackers in the woods without having to fight, but it could easily have gone the other way.
Many people - perhaps most people - honestly believe this kind of thing could never happen to them - and hopefully it won't.
But, thinking about how you would respond in various scenarios doesn't hurt anything and it might well help.
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Please mr thug come back in 3 mins, until I get my tool open and deployed right. then you can mug me.
It aint a defensive weapon its a tool. If you need something for defence just get a Dog Choke chain and put your keys on it. No one would be the wiser.
However I will stick to my pistol.
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He advocates using a Mag lite and a Swisstool ( previously opened ) , as emergency self defence devices in a car breakdown situation . He hails from Maryland , I can see it as being a good move in some wromg side of the tracks hoods . Its a good , legally deniable system .
Chris
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When I go to work I take a pack up lunch in a plastic box :think: Wonder how I could use that in a self defence situation ? Perhaps I could offer them a sandwich then run away while they are eating it . Or I could just take my shoe off and hit them with that ::). Some people in certain countries over analyse ( or analyze for the benefit of those) everything .
Sorry to go on its just that I cant understand why some people want to turn everything into a weapon .If you want a weapon then carry one , like a tactical knife or a gun .
Dunc
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He advocates using a Mag lite and a Swisstool ( previously opened ) , as emergency self defence devices in a car breakdown situation . He hails from Maryland , I can see it as being a good move in some wromg side of the tracks hoods . Its a good , legally deniable system .
Chris
Exactly right.
If you're broke down on the side of the road, and the cops roll up and see you holding a multitool and a Maglite - no big deal.
Same situation, but you're holding Maglite and a big knife or a Maglite and a pistol - that could get you arrested in many parts of the USA.
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He advocates using a Mag lite and a Swisstool ( previously opened ) , as emergency self defence devices in a car breakdown situation . He hails from Maryland , I can see it as being a good move in some wromg side of the tracks hoods . Its a good , legally deniable system .
Chris
Exactly right.
If you're broke down on the side of the road, and the cops roll up and see you holding a multitool and a Maglite - no big deal.
Same situation, but you're holding Maglite and a big knife or a Maglite and a pistol - that could get you arrested in many parts of the USA.
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In that situation that could work .
Dunc
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Some people in certain countries over analyse ( or analyze for the benefit of those) everything .
Sorry to go on its just that I cant understand why some people want to turn everything into a weapon .If you want a weapon then carry one , like a tactical knife or a gun .
Dunc
That's really rich, considering that it comes from a Brit.
How many civilians in Britain EDC a tactical knife or a gun?
Many Americans live in oppressive, Democrat-controlled states.
Even in Republican states the big cities are usually Democrat-controlled and will often enact local policies concerning firearms and knives.
The whole country isn't as enlightened as New Hampshire or Texas when it comes to firearms and knives.
Many Americans make do with less than a big tactical folding knife and pistol EDCed for self defense, simply because they prefer not to violate the local laws.
Yet, strangely enough, many prefer not to be completely empty-handed in a self defense situation.
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When I go to work I take a pack up lunch in a plastic box :think: Wonder how I could use that in a self defence situation ? Perhaps I could offer them a sandwich then run away while they are eating it . Or I could just take my shoe off and hit them with that ::). Some people in certain countries over analyse ( or analyze for the benefit of those) everything .
Sorry to go on its just that I cant understand why some people want to turn everything into a weapon .If you want a weapon then carry one , like a tactical knife or a gun .
Dunc
Are you serious? Do you actually believe carrying a tactical knife or a gun is something everyone can easily do??? I need no guesses to say you're American.
Besides the fact that carrying anything remotely hazardous is outlawed in more and more countries (I think it's the heat), having options is always better than not having them. You mock the man with a plastic lunchbox. Fine, here's how you can use it:
1. Throw it at the attacker. This is guaranteed to momentarily divert their attention if nothing else, giving you just enough time to reach for your weapon or run.
2. Open it and put the contents on the attacker's face. This will get even more attention, as well as deal some damage to their vision.
3. If your lunch box has a handle, you can use it as a flail, or a shield to bind your attacker's weapon.
4. If your lunch box snaps closed, you can use your imagination. ;)
5. While the other guy is wrestling with your salad, you can kick them in the shin, knee them in the groin, elbow them in the temple and palm strike their nose in unmolested.
Anything on you (think belt or jacket) or in your hands (think heavy box in First Blood) can be successfully put between yourself and potentially lethal injuries, unless it has been specifically designed not to. Even then, you can still throw it. Ask any prison guard, they will tell you the same thing: a full hand is better than an empty hand.
In this light, I find the latest anti-weapon craze ludicrous: the only thing needed to kill or severely injure somebody is determination to do so. Even stripped naked and having had all of their teeth, nails and nasal hair removed, an adult person is still 40-100 kg of meat and bones, with more than enough power to snap somebody's neck, headbutt, or choke them to death. If any anti-knife activists are reading this: ladies, you're fighting a lost cause. Even when you have melted down every metal object in the world, criminals can and will still maim and/or rape you. And you won't even have your keys to help.
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Actually Rodion, Dunc's a brit. And there would be no way you would catch me wasting my lunch on an attacker! :o Man's gotta eat! :D
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Actually Rodion, Dunc's a brit. And there would be no way you would catch me wasting my lunch on an attacker! :o Man's gotta eat! :D
Think I've hit a nerve (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/ebbingtide/couch.gif)
Dunc
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Some people in certain countries over analyse ( or analyze for the benefit of those) everything .
Sorry to go on its just that I cant understand why some people want to turn everything into a weapon .If you want a weapon then carry one , like a tactical knife or a gun .
Dunc
That's really rich, considering that it comes from a Brit.
How many civilians in Britain EDC a tactical knife or a gun?
None I hope , I wasnt suggesting people should carry a weapon , far from it .
Dunc
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DTH, did you ever trade Samson for his SwissTool?
No he traded it to someone else. I didn't have exactly what he was looking for.
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Some people in certain countries over analyse ( or analyze for the benefit of those) everything .
Sorry to go on its just that I cant understand why some people want to turn everything into a weapon .If you want a weapon then carry one , like a tactical knife or a gun .
Dunc
That's really rich, considering that it comes from a Brit.
How many civilians in Britain EDC a tactical knife or a gun?
None I hope , I wasnt suggesting people should carry a weapon , far from it .
Dunc
Actually I edc a bazooka! :P
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Some people in certain countries over analyse ( or analyze for the benefit of those) everything .
Sorry to go on its just that I cant understand why some people want to turn everything into a weapon .If you want a weapon then carry one , like a tactical knife or a gun .
Dunc
That's really rich, considering that it comes from a Brit.
How many civilians in Britain EDC a tactical knife or a gun?
None I hope , I wasnt suggesting people should carry a weapon , far from it .
Dunc
Actually I edc a bazooka! :P
I dont know if I want to know whats in your pocket :think: Saying that though on a forum like this it can be very interesting :D I bet your wife calls it a pea shooter though :P
Dunc
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When I saw the title of the post I thought there was going to be a photo of Dunc caught in a compromising position with a Swisstool... :D :pok:
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When I saw the title of the post I thought there was going to be a photo of Dunc caught in a compromising position with a Swisstool... :D :pok:
Damn that satellite imaging :o :D
Dunc
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When I saw the title of the post I thought there was going to be a photo of Dunc caught in a compromising position with a Swisstool... :D :pok:
:o You've seen those picture's too :cry: :cry:
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All I'm gonna say is the fishnets involved aren't the sort you pull behind a boat...and they weren't on the Swisstool :o :D
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Some people in certain countries over analyse ( or analyze for the benefit of those) everything .
Sorry to go on its just that I cant understand why some people want to turn everything into a weapon .If you want a weapon then carry one , like a tactical knife or a gun .
Dunc
That's really rich, considering that it comes from a Brit.
How many civilians in Britain EDC a tactical knife or a gun?
None I hope , I wasnt suggesting people should carry a weapon , far from it .
Dunc
It surely reads like you were, but I'll take you at your word. So, you advise people to go about completely disarmed and mentally unprepared to deal with aggression by casual thugs or professional criminals.
That at least clarifies things.
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Some people in certain countries over analyse ( or analyze for the benefit of those) everything .
Sorry to go on its just that I cant understand why some people want to turn everything into a weapon .If you want a weapon then carry one , like a tactical knife or a gun .
Dunc
That's really rich, considering that it comes from a Brit.
How many civilians in Britain EDC a tactical knife or a gun?
None I hope , I wasnt suggesting people should carry a weapon , far from it .
Dunc
It surely reads like you were, but I'll take you at your word. So, you advise people to go about completely disarmed and mentally unprepared to deal with aggression by casual thugs or professional criminals.
That at least clarifies things.
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If you want to feel you have cleared things up then well done . People should try and be as mentally prepared but to go about armed in this country is breaking the law . Are you suggesting we should all arm ourselves and break the law to deal with aggression by casual thugs or professional criminals.
I'm not going to let this thread get dragged into a slanging match . All I was saying in the first place was why do some people always try to turn everything into a weapon .
Dunc
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I agree, this has gone far enough. This thread is about Swisstool fetishing.
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I agree, this has gone far enough. This thread is about Swisstool fetishing.
Fair do's I think we should agree to disagree :D
Dunc
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I do agree its an interesting article though :cheers:
Dunc
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I agree, this has gone far enough. This thread is about Swisstool fetishing.
Every thread should be a swisstool fetish thread. :D
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If you want to feel you have cleared things up then well done .
I feel you clarified your opinion, not me - as mine was clear all along.
People should try and be as mentally prepared but to go about armed in this country is breaking the law . Are you suggesting we should all arm ourselves and break the law to deal with aggression by casual thugs or professional criminals.
I suggest that no one has any moral obligation to obey an immoral law.
I suggest laws that treat innocent civilians as if they were prison inmates are immoral laws.
I suggest laws that abridge the unalienable right of any human being to self defense are immoral laws.
I suggest laws that advantage brutal thugs and criminals over innocent civlians are immoral laws.
No doubt you'll disagree, but that's what I suggest.
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Immoral or not, it is still the law and if we want to stay out of trouble, these laws need to be obeyed. Even if they are ridiculous.
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Exactly, as much as I would dearly love to walk the street's ready to counter any threat to myself and other's, the laws are such that to do so would involve you spending an awful long time behind bars, watching other people raising your family >:(
And let's face it, you WILL get caught, we are the most survailed nation on earth here in the UK >:(
The law may well be an ass, but your a bigger one if you don't at least attempt to adhere to there silly and shortsighted law's ::)
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I suggest that no one has any moral obligation to obey an immoral law.
I suggest laws that treat innocent civilians as if they were prison inmates are immoral laws.
I suggest laws that abridge the unalienable right of any human being to self defense are immoral laws.
I suggest laws that advantage brutal thugs and criminals over innocent civlians are immoral laws.
My counter suggestions would get me banned.
Anyway, I can't say I've been in a great deal of fights, certainly not enough to warrant me making a website about them,
And the few I have been in I'm not sure I would have had the time to grab anything from my pocket, even to use as a weight, let alone anything else.
But, maybe I'm just not cool. If I was cool I'm sure I would have done something really neat.
Now, did someone promise pictures of Dunc's Swisstools?
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snip :)
Good to see you back Nomad :)
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Yeah, good to see you mate. :)
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Long time, no see mate :)
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Good to see you back Nomad
Thankee.
I'm on a brief hiatus from work.
Whee!
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Hey, its Nomad! :)
We was starting to wonder if the heat finally did you in man.
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Yeah Bob thought it was the heat, I figured it was a very wronged husband :D
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Wow, Fast Post Much.
Nah, nothing so glamorous as having my legs broke after eloping with an underground boss's moll.
Just a coma state induced by 70 hour a week job!
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Yep work's for chumps, I've been saying it all along :D
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Yep work's for chumps, I've been saying it all along
Heh, You must have the same morale-boosting sticker as I have.
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Can you guys in the UK carry a cane?
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Yep work's for chumps, I've been saying it all along
Heh, You must have the same morale-boosting sticker as I have.
:D :D
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Can you guys in the UK carry a cane?
As far as I know yes, but you'd probably get into a load of trouble if you beat the snot out of someone, and your leg's/health was fine though.
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As far as I know yes, but you'd probably get into a load of trouble if you beat the snot out of someone, and your leg's/health was fine though.
Oh ok. Maybe it's time to start telling the Dr your leg or back hurts so that way if the situation ever happens you've got it on record that you have a reason to carry it. :D :D :D
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To be honest, prevention of violent assaults is not only favorable, but is also much, much easier to do. Where I live right now, I often find myself in less than friendly company, yet not once* have I been harrassed. When in a "bad" hood, I walk slowly and make firm eye contact with every suspicious looking person. On the contrary, when I was younger, I used to "run" everywhere, leaving the impression of trying to run away and, consequently, been hustled every once in a while. It doesn't hurt knowing what to do if things go wrong (and showing it), as well as being a creepy Lurch. :P
*Once I realized in retrospect a bunch of guys wanted to rob me, but changed their minds. I just thought they needed something...
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Wow. Entertaining thread we have hear.
I too read this article years ago, and found it very interesting. Alot of you are leaning one way or the other of the fence, but I think you guys are missing the point. He has no system crearted for his Multitool. His site give alot advice on a variety of tools/self defense implements. The point is, when it comes to self defense, a little ingenuity goes along way. Many blame the law or the system for not being able to defend ourselves, but the point of these articles is, ANYTHING we have on us can be a weapon. A knife is not a weapon. It is a tool. It is USED as a weapon, but it is a tool. Multitool? Bandana? Many of the things he advocates are not weapons. He's just getting people to think outsaide the box. As a self defense instructor for many years, I am not buying the whole "I live in Britain, where we can't carry ANYTHING for self defense." ethos. Sure you can. Keys? Bags? Belts/jackets, as others on here have pointed out, pens, pencils.... all things that canb be used in Self defense. A book, rolled up magazine, etc. I think the point of the articles is to think and use your noggin first.
Mall ninja? Made me think of the historical ninjas, and how they used WHATEVER they had on them to defend themselves, or help them secape, or whatever. They DID have weapons, like swords, knives, etc., but they also were unarmed during many missions, and used basic principals to use whatever was at hand. For example, you learn how to use a Kubaton, and you can use a pen, a rolled up newspaper, umbrella, etc. We are the ONLY ones responsible for our lives and for our safety. Now, as a self defense instructor, I also advocate running as a second option, awareness and avoidance as a first. However, if one absolutely HAS to angage oneself, then use that multitool if you can, or that pen, or those pointy cowboy boots or high heels if you are a woman. In a real life self defense situation, anything goes.
Good thread, though. Many classic lines and insightful thoughts. Tempers flaring, jokes being made..... a little bit of everything.
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I agree Navajero! :cheers:
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Don is a tad bit abrasive , however his stuff is spot on . Knowledge is neither good or evil in and of itself . How you apply it is up to you . I have spent a lot of time figuring out how to press neutral tools into service as field expedient weapons , and offer no apologies whatever . Look at it objectivley , thew hand can reassure , caress or maim - all pends on the user and the needs of the moment .
Chris
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I have spent a lot of time figuring out how to press neutral tools into service as field expedient weapons , and offer no apologies whatever .
Do you carry a bandanna? :D
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I actually wanted to get one, but discovered they cost 40 dollars each.
Hellloooooo eBay...
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40 DOLLARS FOR A BANDANA??!?!?!?!?!?!?!? :ahhh :think: :ahhh :think:
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Yes, well it's not just any bandanna, it's a tactical fighting bandanna... far superior to any other ordinary bandanna!
Def
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For that price, I sure hope it's "tactical" black.
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Going a bit OT.I have read D. Rearic's articles,the are not to bad.Just a guy doing his own thing I guess.I do feel bad for the UK members.They have been put into a posistion where defending themselves and bieng ready to do so has to be totally hidden from the law.You guys must have to put up with alot of nonsense.Is training in martial arts
a problem as well?
I hope it never gets like that here.
Hope I did not offend,I do mean any offense towards the the UK members.
Dtrain
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No offence taken at all. :) I hope, for your sake, that it doesn't get like this over your side of the pond.
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Speaking as an equivalent of a UK member (Israel has much the same EDC laws), it's not that bad. Annoying, but not much more than that. Sure, there's the whole oppressive fascist tendencies thing, but who doesn't have those... if anything, I find it an exercise in creativity.
And a great excuse to buy a Victorinox flashlight from Tim. :D
For that price, I sure hope it's "tactical" black.
Nah. It says "National Geographic" for some reason. Maybe I'm just looking at the wrong places...
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$40 for a peice of cotton? I just ordered four (ACU camo :D ) from countycomm.com for $2 each and plan on modding one with pockets (like on donrearic.com)
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Going a bit OT.I have read D. Rearic's articles,the are not to bad.Just a guy doing his own thing I guess.I do feel bad for the UK members.They have been put into a posistion where defending themselves and bieng ready to do so has to be totally hidden from the law.You guys must have to put up with alot of nonsense.Is training in martial arts
a problem as well?
I hope it never gets like that here.
Hope I did not offend,I do mean any offense towards the the UK members.
Dtrain
martial arts are allowed and quite popular , used to do Karate when I was a teenager :D
Dunc
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Exactly, as much as I would dearly love to walk the street's ready to counter any threat to myself and other's, the laws are such that to do so would involve you spending an awful long time behind bars, watching other people raising your family >:(
Don't be so sure of that.
Oddly enough, the Daily Mail ran an article on this topic within the last several weeks.
The vast majority of UK citizens caught by cops while carrying knives have their property confiscated and are 'cautioned' - well over 90%.
Some of the remainder are prosecuted and convicted, but very few go to prison. Most get community service or similar nonsense. Those few that do go to prison serve amazingly short sentences.
The number of knife carriers actually locked up in the whole UK in a whole year was laughably small - 20 or so IIRC.
Basically, the whole knife ban situation is one big government scam. The government lacks the resources - courts, prosecutors, and prison slots - to lock up even a tiny percentage of the people caught with knives.
The law may well be an ass, but your a bigger one if you don't at least attempt to adhere to there silly and shortsighted law's ::)
Over many years, I have carried guns and knives on my person in violation of various local laws in a number of places across the USA.
Never had any legal troubles because of it. Off course, I don't go looking for trouble and will usually go out of the way to avoid trouble.
If I was busted, I could probably beat it in court on grounds of an illegal search. If I didn't beat the charge and was convicted, I'd be given a non-custodial sentence. First offense, no criminal record, etc.
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Exactly, as much as I would dearly love to walk the street's ready to counter any threat to myself and other's, the laws are such that to do so would involve you spending an awful long time behind bars, watching other people raising your family >:(
Don't be so sure of that.
Oddly enough, the Daily Mail ran an article on this topic within the last several weeks.
The vast majority of UK citizens caught by cops while carrying knives have their property confiscated and are 'cautioned' - well over 90%.
Some of the remainder are prosecuted and convicted, but very few go to prison. Most get community service or similar nonsense. Those few that do go to prison serve amazingly short sentences.
The number of knife carriers actually locked up in the whole UK in a whole year was laughably small - 20 or so IIRC.
Basically, the whole knife ban situation is one big government scam. The government lacks the resources - courts, prosecutors, and prison slots - to lock up even a tiny percentage of the people caught with knives.
The law may well be an ass, but your a bigger one if you don't at least attempt to adhere to there silly and shortsighted law's ::)
Over many years, I have carried guns and knives on my person in violation of various local laws in a number of places across the USA.
Never had any legal troubles because of it. Off course, I don't go looking for trouble and will usually go out of the way to avoid trouble.
If I was busted, I could probably beat it in court on grounds of an illegal search. If I didn't beat the charge and was convicted, I'd be given a non-custodial sentence. First offense, no criminal record, etc.
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I hope your not encouraging our UK members to break the law :twak:
May I remind members that a knife is a terrible weapon that often leads to someones death and in muggings etc. a knife pulled in self defence very often gets turned and used on its owner :o
Dunc
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I could have sworn this was a thread about the SwissTool.
There are many gun, self defense and political forums online that would probably be better suited to that type of discussion, and as a law enforcer myself, I would caution anyone against breaking them. If you do, be prepared for the consequences, and I mean the whole ball of wax, not just "what the other guy got."
However, as most of us are multitool aficionados, the idea of self defense and the laws regarding it are beyond our scope.
Def
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I'm sorry but I'm going to have to agree with my fellow Mod's on this Ringzero, what your saying is tantamount to inciting people to carry arms >:(
Add to that the fact that even a small amount of jail time will get you a criminal record, and it's hard enough to find a job over here as it is!
While you are entitled to your opinion, I would urge my fellow UK member's to ignore your coment's and further more ask you to refrain from making them.
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I'm sorry but I'm going to have to agree with my fellow Mod's on this Ringzero, what your saying is tantamount to inciting people to carry arms >:(
Add to that the fact that even a small amount of jail time will get you a criminal record, and it's hard enough to find a job over here as it is!
While you are entitled to your opinion, I would urge my fellow UK member's to ignore your coment's and further more ask you to refrain from making them.
Going on from what you said Mike, even if I only got a caution for carrying a blade, that would mean I would lose my job as I have to have an enhanced police check (CRB check) in order to be in my line of work.
There are other consequences to life as well as just going to prison.
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Ahem... SwissTools?
Def