Multitool.org Forum
Tool Talk => SOG Tool Forum => Topic started by: AimlessWanderer on January 06, 2017, 07:52:28 PM
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I'm going to use this thread to voice my initial feelings on some of the design aspects of the recently announced new SOG offerings for 2017. All opinions here will purely be based on the sales literature that we have seen so far, and without anyone I know having handled one or given any kind of feedback or insight.
In other words, I could be completely wrong :D
However, it's always fun to try and predict the pros and cons of new tools before they get field tested. It shows whether or not we've been paying attention in the past :P Please feel free to join in with your thoughts as we go along. :cheers:
I'll start with the Q1 Baton.....
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Albeit simplistic, the Q1 baton actually strikes me as one of the cleverest offerings of the bunch. It seems genuinely useful, ergonomically sensible, and with no obvious opportunities for screwing up the quality.
Essentially this is a pocket clipped ball point pen, which "breaks" in half and reveals a small pair of scissors. At the end is a fold out cap lifter and small screwdriver. No knife blade, so potentially usable in certain blade restricted locations.
The main function here is the pen - and it's pen shaped. Good start! The scissors look of good form, and the angle of the chamfer at the break is correct for levering up a bottle top without the tool coming open and scissor points attacking your palm. How well that works as a screwdriver (without accidental scissor deployment) will depend on spring strength. The design of the pen slide means that you're not likely to stick yourself with the pen tip, unless you'd forgotten to stow it before using as a driver. No matter how good a tool design, an idiot will still find a way to hurt themself with it.
I haven't read deep enough to see if these tools take standard ink refills, or if you have to buy special ones from SOG. Extra points could be added or subtracted there by having/not having ease and affordability of keeping the tool alive. Lets face it, if the pen is empty and you can't get refills, it's not going to be carried.
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The Q2 Baton is quite confusing. Every picture I have seen with the blades deployed, sees the handle elements splayed with gearing at the joint. Why doesn't this fully open? Every picture showing the tool open seems to show these handle elements at the same angle. That leaves me thinking that it's not just chance, but the full extent of the handle movement. This makes the knife harder to use, and potentially cause the hand to slide towards the blade if wet/slippy, or doing a piercing or scoring cut where there is a resistant force down the axis of the blade.
Odd, and slightly worrying.
The blade however is a secondary function, the first being the torch/flashlight. No battery types have been specified in anything I've read so far. If this is AAA (an easily replacable cell) then there could be additional merit here, or additional face palm points for coin cells.
Again, the handle joint is correct for the cap lifter forces, but will the blade peek out on screwdriver duty? Just how secure are these tools going to be in the closed position?
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I'll address the Q3 and Q4 together.
An accidental centre tool pokey outey occurrence is potentially less concerning here, as pliers are (hopefully) blunter than scissors and knife blades. The pliers seem reasonably Squirt or Dime like when deployed, so no glaringly obvious usage problems there if the quality is up to par, and I think that it's fair to say that those two would be the nearest competitors for this tool, despite the differences in closed form.
There is no evidence of locking implement, which seems sensible for tools of this size and duty level. The "driver arm" seems free of obvious smurf ups on both tools, although there is one implement on the arm of the Q3 which is less clear in terms of purpose .... any thought?
The joint angle is correct for primary forces on all tools on the blade arm. Whether the centre joint holds rigid when opening cans, where there may be resistance in both up and down motions, or if cutting something where the knife blade may jam a little, again is dependent on spring strength, and I dare say usage technique too.
Aside from the Q4 being brave enough to incorporate a full 1/4" hex driver and 12 bit (just how smurfing big will this "pen shaped" item be?), it seems the main question - at least for me - is whether this baton shape will make it more carryable or less carryable than a "regular" form multitool. Personally I am struggling to see any advantage over this form factor, and it may push the tool/s into a kind of "no-mans-land" in terms of size vs duty level and durability.
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The Sync 1 and 2, are for me starting to stray a little further into the "novelty gadget" realm.
Firstly, there's the carry method. Some people might really like the idea of a smurfing big belt buckle that can be detatched and used as a tool. Some people might not! I suspect that the polarisation here will be somewhat parallel to thos who like or don't like the look of the Leatherman Tread.
The next thing that struck me was the short pliers and long handles all folding up into a small package. That's clever! The fact that it's an open webbed investment cast construction, is less clever. Here's the thing with castings - they are great under compression, and crap in tension. Yes, some can have improved ductility through smart chemical composition and heat treatment - I have been involved in a number of projects involving centrifugally cast pipe - but generally speaking tensile forces on castings are to be avoided at all costs.
Why are you saying this Al? Where are the tensile forces?
Let's look at the pliers again. When gripping something with the pliers, the extra handle length and short jaws will in theory really let you get a good gripping force. If you give someone that opportunity, they WILL use it. Working from the plier pivot back down the handles, the arm will want to bend due to the forces applied - hopefully it will be rigid enough not to. However, as that wants to bend, the inside is subject to compression forces, and the outside is subject to tension.
Now look at the tool closed up. The part that will be in tension, I reduced in thickness so that it partially fits inside the other handle part and reduces the closed profile.
Did you spot it yet?
The thinnest part of the casting - which doesn't like tensile forces - is the bit that's under tension. The part that is thickest, doesn't need to be. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and suggest that just either side of the centre triangle on the outer edge of the handles are potential fracture points (barring casting defects elsewhere). This might not happen straight away if the casting has been carefully considered at a metallurgical level, but could still be prone to fatigue in these areas.
I see this as potentially being a bigger problem than the hollow plier pivot (a frequent chunter of mine) which enables the engagement plunger to lock the tool into the belt buckle. I can't really make two many presumptions about that, as it's not clear as to how much metal may have been removed to accommodate plunger and spring.
Also, why the smurf do tools this small need locks?
And, why the smurf are the locks on the blade and scissors which shouldn't be subject to axial loads, and the drivers which WILL be subject to axial loads are the lock releases.
AND the form factor of using any of these smaller, unnecessarily locking components looks awkward and uncomfortable.
This tool looks to me like it was designed by marketting people not toolmakers. Target audience is definitely people who don't often buy and use tools - let's call them "Dad gifts" from family members.
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Power Access:
Initial thought - those handle cut outs look bloody uncomfortable!
That aside, it's really nice to see SOG embrace the idea of outboard tools. This makes the knife blade and the notching portion of the file (which they have included - unlike the Gerber Centre Drive) significantly better in use in most applications, as the other handle isn't in the way. The other tools that often benefit from this are can openers and saws. The only time where it's beneficial to have the tools oriented from inboard is blunt nosed serrated knives, as for seatbelt cutting or clothing cutting for wound access it's more important to get the spine as close as possible, than the blade (relevant later)
The plier heads look a good all-round usage head, with hard and soft wire cutters, complimented by the mechanical advantage offered by the compound leverage. I know I rant about handle splay on other tools, but the bottom line here is that you can't keep handle splay in reasonable limits AND offer compound leverage at the same time. If you want/need compound leverage, that's the price you pay. The plier heads also offer the magnetic driver bit facility on the reverse, previously seen on the Reactor and PowerPlay. Added functionality for very little added volume and weight. See previous reviews by other people on the older tools to form your own conclusions about the effectiveness of this feature.
As to the rest of the tools, they seem a fair assortment. The Phillips looks like it might be a #1 which for me is a perpetual disappointment on SOG offerings, as the planet seems to be held together with #2 screws. The Jewellery Driver, is that the teeny weeny ultra-slim spike thingy? Is it? What is it, some kind of #00000 Phillips? I'll have to pass on that, as I can't figure out the purpose, so how can I guess if it's suitable? The awl is a little "quick" for my tastes, as I prefer a slower taper - but that's a minor point.
Overall, not a bad design effort is the quality is there. It would be nice to see a bladeless version of this if it turns out to be well made, though I do still have reservations on the plier handle comfort due to the cutouts - and what the smurf are those cutouts for on the side further down? Weight reduction?
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PowerGrab:
What the smurf were they thinking here? :facepalm: This might be more than one post. In fact, I'm going to break off here and go get a coffee before I try to tackle this one.....
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OK, I've got myself a coffee, so lets take a look at the SOG
ClusterSmurf PowerGrab
:whistle:
What a sloppy sloppy lazy unthinking half arsed piece of design work. Let's tick off a few positives first before we launch our full on assault though. Pliers look good. Nice and strong, soft and hard wire cutters, compound leverage, again this affects handle splay, but thems the breaks. OHO plain edged blade, compatibility with traditional SOG components, and metal saw included on the file.
OK, arse kicking time. You may notice that this tool has BOTH the traditional bit driver adapter "stump", AND the magnetic bit driver on the back of the plier head. There is only one simple reason for including both hex bit driver features on one tool. Laziness! They ran out of off the shelf tools and ideas for what to fill the handle with. Simple as that!
The only other reason to include a second feature is if the first feature is crap - so which is it SOG? Which of these two features is so crap that you have to include the other one? Just give us one and make sure it works! Are we supposed to have not noticed, or are we supposed to think you can tighten one screw with one end and simultaneously think we can loosen another screw with identical screw pitch length at the same time. Why not give us a full thickness 3D #2 Phillips? Chisel blade? Pry tool? Tyre depth gauge? Hex bit storage? Jigsaw blade attachment? Even a lanyard loop makes more sense here. Make an effort for smurfs sake!!!!!
:facepalm:
OK, so moving on ..... *deep breaths*
This tool has one "inboard" arm, and one "outboard" arm. This gives SOG the option of fitting each arm with the tool which gives optimum orientation in use. However, once again, they opt to royally smurf it up instead!
:facepalm: :facepalm:
Remember my comments earlier about blunt nosed serrated blades? I mentioned that these are one of the few tools which benefit from an "inboard" configuration, but Some Oblivious Gonad (note the initials) chose to mount it on the outboard arm. They got the OHO plain edged blade on the correct arm, so 1/2 point awarded for putting 50% of the knife blades in the right place.....
.... and then there's the scissors.....
..... these scissors are NOT the greatest on the market. In fact they are one of the worst that are offered in multitools (where's Lynn when you need her?). One of the many aspects about these scissors that makes them crap, is that they are upside down on the tool. They had off the end of the handles with the moving arm pointing over the opposing handle. The reason for this is that essentially, these scissors are outboard design scissors that SOG kept mounting in an inboard configuration....
.... but wait...
..... here's a tool with both inboard and outboard arms....
..... and....... :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
:bnghd:
They want 120 beer vouchers for this shambles?
This isn't a Friday afternoon special, the shift where you really aren't paying attention because you want to go home, grab a shower, and head straight out for a weekend of full on partying. This is worse than that! This is day after the Christmas party material! You know you're probably going to get the sack anyway for dipping your smurf in your bosses wife's glass of Bollinger, and sang loudly "dip your balls, in someone's Bolli, fallallallallaargh fallallaargh.... BARF!!!" - instant 18" pavement pizza.
You reckon you've got nothing to lose, so you screw up the design on purpose as a parting shot in case they sack you, knowing you can correct the design later if you keep your job. However, the next morning, you get told you can keep your job as it was a one-off, providing you don't screw up anything else for the next 6 months, but you need to get the PowerGrab design submitted immediately as they've planned a January release....
And so the SOG ClusterSmurf was born
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Finally there's the Micro Tool Clip. Third time of attempting it, and the Phillips is still unusable.
Nuff said!
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In the interests of full disclosure, for those who don't already know. I am one of the customers that SOG lost due to them having a significant decline in quality of design and manufacture over recent years. I have however tried to approach this appraisal as neutrally as I can, and keep this objective. Any apparant bias against the brand is purely coincidental, and due to the fact I'll happily take the piss out of anyone and everything, given an adequate opportunity
:cheers:
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The end!
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Your turn :pok:
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Where have you all gone?
Was it something I said? :think:
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:clap:
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If any moderators are bored and fancy a little job... :pok: :D ... Kampfer posted up some piccies in a seperate thread of catalogue captures for each of these tools, and it would be really useful to get one of the appropriate pic posted at the beginning of each "review" post, so people can relate picture to words.
It was a problem for me to do this, as I'm just working off a phone. Hopefully one of you can assist.
Yes, I know it's a smurfty request, but thanks in advance anyway :P :hatsoff:
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:clap:
Thanks Kam :salute: Anything you disagree on? And any clue what that weird rounded tool is supposed to be on the left arm of the Q3?
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:clap:
Thanks Kam :salute: Anything you disagree on? And any clue what that weird rounded tool is supposed to be on the left arm of the Q3?
I havent look into them that deeply as you did, when I have the tools in hands i will cross reference back to your thoughts.
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:tu:
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Just a slight aside here- the issue you have with the redundant drivers on the PowerGrab is exactly the complaint I had about the so called "premium" Leatherman Charge XTi that I paid full Canadian retail price of $145 for because everyone talked about how wonderful it was. So wonderful, and yet with an unnecessary duplication of features, to say nothing of the various flatheads.
Maybe since it was Leatherman and they can do no wrong, it's ok when they do it, but a double standard when someone else tries it.
Def
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Just a slight aside here- the issue you have with the redundant drivers on the PowerGrab is exactly the complaint I had about the so called "premium" Leatherman Charge XTi that I paid full Canadian retail price of $145 for because everyone talked about how wonderful it was. So wonderful, and yet with an unnecessary duplication of features, to say nothing of the various flatheads.
Maybe since it was Leatherman and they can do no wrong, it's ok when they do it, but a double standard when someone else tries it.
Def
Slight but very poignant difference there. The ALX can hold and retain two bits (four drivers) at the same time, increasing the scope of the tool without carrying peripherals. The PowerFail can only use one bit on one driver at any time, and cannot retain any of them.
Therefore there is a legitimate design reasoning behind the ALX design, which is absent on the SOG.
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Grant, I hope you realise that you just made me defend a Leatherman design principle :pok:
:D
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Looking at the Q3 in closer detail, the rounded tool on the left arm as pictured may be the "chisel" as referred to in the supporting text. Due to the profile of this tool, and the fact that there is no obvious locks, I am going to assume that this tool is ground on the side, and will therefore almost be like a kind of whittling knife.
As all the above comments, this is just speculative guess work, but if correct, I can imagine that being quite a handy little tool in this configuration.
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Everyone is entitled to an opinion, right? I enjoyed your initial thoughts on the new designs. I am quite a SOG fan and I will quickly share some thoughts of my own.
Baton tools - I have more reservations about these tools than any of the other offerings. The one with the pen is interesting, the one with knife less so, and the two pliers based batons I don't like based on how ugly they are - yes, shallow :P
The Syncs - I like them. The bigger one is my fav, because more tools. They look unique, too
PowerAcess - really excited about this one. We have got a PPP replacement, at the expense of the PPP, I just hope it can live up to that legacy. I am bummed that it has apparently lost the ability to accept the interchangeable tools. I'd like to see it with scissors. Maybe a future variation? But all outside access, the pliers head driver, and a pocket clip? Wins. Solidity of construction is going to be the make/break factor. I sort of wish name was PPP2.0
PowerGrab - I am interested in this one as well, but my love of the PL may prevent me from purchasing... Initially :D I agree with your assessment about the configuration of the inboard vs outboard tools. Scissors should have been out, serrated should have been in. I don;t mind the 1/4" adapter, but a new implement would have been better - 3D #2 phillips being the first thing to come to mind. My concern with the PG? Is this going to eventually replace the PL? They need to offer some variations if that is the long term plan.
Micro Tool Clip - I have one. I like it. I agree that the phillips is a fail.
Overall, I am really excited about SOG this year. And last year. And the year previous. They are really killing it lately. As I mentioned with PA, the solid-ness of these tools is the key factor. The quality needs to be up to PL, SP, PPP standards and not on PowerDuo level. SOG went a different direction than I would have, offering a bunch of new models. I would have made adjustments to the existing product lines and called them 2.0 or 3.0 as applicable. But I like the Reactor a lot. So clearly blazing new trails has paid off recently for them.
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Thanks for your input, rdub :tu: Nice to get the input of a long term SOG fan. I had no intentions of this thread being "one sided", and always value your comments :cheers: Differences of opinion and perspective are important and highly informative.
Good call on the pocket clip on the PowerAccess which is something that I overlooked. I've only noticed it in the text and not in any pictures. Hopefully the clip is at the plier end, as these SOGs do tend to swing open quite easily (or at least their predecessors did)
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.... also, is it me, or is the plier head more similar in profile to the rather nicer Paladin PT510 plier head? Overall, I think the tool has the potential to be superior to the PPP in many ways. I also agree that putting their standard scissors on here would be a nice touch, especially on a knifeless variant
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Grant, I hope you realise that you just made me defend a Leatherman design principle :pok:
:D
At least SOG can use standard bits.
:P
Def
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Grant, I hope you realise that you just made me defend a Leatherman design principle :pok:
:D
At least SOG can use standard bits.
:P
Def
.... without peripherals at one end, whereas they can both use standard bits but only with the use of peripheral components at the other end ;)
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Q4 looks interesting. At one point I did look bit driver mt. But to be honest I have not found usable one. LM bits are good solution if you think about bits in edc (I do not carry all bit options so don't mind even bits are not normal size). This Q4 seems like ok solution. Again bits and tool can be quite large edc. And again like estimated pliers look light duty. Again I prefer fixed flat and philips. Flat I use other then screw tasks as well (prybar etc). But seems this can be smaller then example wave with one slide of bits or spirit plus. So looks fine but depends how handy carry solution is.
So agree that bit driver with one bit is not a great solution. And to carry example 12 bits is same then having extra sak in carry. Again there are quite small ratchet and bit sets you can carry on belt. So LM could do as well Q4 like solution for own bits, example for MT about juice S2 size + room for 5 double bits, that I could edc.
But surely nice try for this area at least.
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MOre pics and info of the 2017 products are available on SOG website!!!
http://www.sogknives.com/type/new-for-2017/show/all.html
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Q4 looks interesting. At one point I did look bit driver mt. But to be honest I have not found usable one. LM bits are good solution if you think about bits in edc (I do not carry all bit options so don't mind even bits are not normal size). This Q4 seems like ok solution. Again bits and tool can be quite large edc. And again like estimated pliers look light duty. Again I prefer fixed flat and philips. Flat I use other then screw tasks as well (prybar etc). But seems this can be smaller then example wave with one slide of bits or spirit plus. So looks fine but depends how handy carry solution is.
So agree that bit driver with one bit is not a great solution. And to carry example 12 bits is same then having extra sak in carry. Again there are quite small ratchet and bit sets you can carry on belt. So LM could do as well Q4 like solution for own bits, example for MT about juice S2 size + room for 5 double bits, that I could edc.
But surely nice try for this area at least.
The length of the Q4 is listed as 5.8" (about 147mm) but it's not clear if this is closed, or with/without a driver bit in position. It is possible that this tool might have Juice sized pliers. We can't be certain until somebody buys one and posts size comparison pictures
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Yes quite long but slim, again bit set brings some size and weight (assume seperate but packs up as pounch was listed). Nice to see more later :)
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MOre pics and info of the 2017 products are available on SOG website!!!
http://www.sogknives.com/type/new-for-2017/show/all.html
:2tu:
Additional observations:
I do like the way that the back end of the plier head on the PA and PG "fills" the gaps on the gear teeth, minimising the "gears of madness" effect on earlier tools. I'm not quite sure why they have made them hollow though :think:
The pocket clip on the PA is on the correct end for sure, but seems that the tool will be riding quite high in the pocket. Obviously we don't know how big the hands are of whoever is holding the tool, but it does seen a decent "urban pocket tool" size. In order words, not too large for general off work carry
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Yes quite long but slim, again bit set brings some size and weight (assume seperate but packs up as pounch was listed). Nice to see more later :)
Yes, it's not really clear if this carrier clips to the tool, or is carried separately in the sheath.
(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/o/sog_id1031-cp_web.psd_0011_closed_front-with-bits.png)
$120 seems VERY expensive though :ahhh
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Thankfully, I was wrong about the Q2 handles.....
(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/o/sog_id1011-cp_web_0007_hand.png)
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Despite the battering I gave the PowerGrab earlier, I do need to pour a little more praise on it for the size efficiency of the knife blades.
On the PowerLock, the implements (including knife blades) all appear rather diminutive in comparison with the size of the overall tool. This is because they all carry the same size tools as found on the PPP. The PowerGrab to it's credit, carries knife blades relative to the size of the tool
(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/o/sog_pm1001-bx_web.psd_0006_knife.jpg)
This is a very significant improvement over the older models, and also means there is a goodly amount of blade which is not impeded by the thumb stud on deep cutting chores.
On this pic, you can also see the plier casting behind the gearing, as eluded to earlier, minimising any discomfort in hand from the gear teeth. There is certainly SOME thought that has gone into these new format tools, but I still think putting the serrated blade and scissors on the "wrong" arms, and the inclusion of old style bit driver stump to be very sloppy and poorly considered.
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There does seem to be a fair amount of variation in the location and width of the backlock notches across the range of implements. This may affect rigidity of lock up.
(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/o/sog_pm1001-bx_web.psd_0008_side2.jpg)
Attaching pics is such a PITA on a phone :rant:
Also notice the long backsprings (no "rocker" locks) and the quirky release thingummy jobbies.....
(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/o/sog_pm1001-bx_web.psd_0007_side.jpg)
(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/o/sog_pm1001-bx_web.psd_0003_pliers.jpg)
I'm not quite sure what to make of those to be honest.....
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Despite looking a bit on the small side, the. Phillis does look a lot better formed on the PowerAccess than was represented on the pics from last year's Powerplay. This suggests that they are making some inroads toward quality improvement.
The fact that the locking system on this tool is so different to the PowerGrab, suggests to me that they are experimenting, and not entirely convinced about which designs to run with (get both out on the market, and see which holds up better - least returns). The locking systems on the PowerPlay, Batons, and Sync all seem different again. There's no unified approach being used on any of the locking systems of the newer tools
(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/o/sog_pa1001-cp_web_0002_tools2.png)
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Question for the Powerplay and Reactor owners....
I've heard about the bits slipping in the plier head system if there isn't a sustained force keeping the handles closed. Does this mean that you can use this to your advantage like a ratcheting system so you don't have to actually spin the tool?
I hope that makes sense....
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What interest me are those Kiku folders. VG-10 steel may indicate Seki-made :ahhh
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Question for the Powerplay and Reactor owners....
I've heard about the bits slipping in the plier head system if there isn't a sustained force keeping the handles closed. Does this mean that you can use this to your advantage like a ratcheting system so you don't have to actually spin the tool?
I hope that makes sense....
I have heard that ratcheting like that would work.
I have used PowerPlay enough to say that the force you have to use isnt tremendous, its ok. I havent used Reactors driver, I think the whole tool would explode if I tried.
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True winner for me looks like it'll be the Poweracces. Not innovative, but come on:
only 1 oz. more than PPP, and you gain
Pocket clip (had to mod my PPP to get that)
(http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t562/ThePeacent/CAM01428_zpsrrhtb9v2.jpg)
Locking tools
Precision screwdriver (I like that one for the glasses and electronics) and maybe a decent Phillips (depends on if they change design, which seems to be the case)
add to that the C.Leverage and weight and you've got a true champ among similar tools in the market. Just wanna know the price :ahhh
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True winner for me looks like it'll be the Poweracces. Not innovative, but come on:
only 1 oz. more than PPP, and you gain
Pocket clip (had to mod my PPP to get that)
(http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t562/ThePeacent/CAM01428_zpsrrhtb9v2.jpg)
Locking tools
Precision screwdriver (I like that one for the glasses and electronics) and maybe a decent Phillips (depends on if they change design, which seems to be the case)
add to that the C.Leverage and weight and you've got a true champ among similar tools in the market. Just wanna know the price :ahhh
List price of $67, so will be available for less than that at retailers in the US, (and double that for us in Europe :P).
When you consider they have listed the small Sync and the Q2 Baton at the same price, that makes the PA look like a real bargain.
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Question for the Powerplay and Reactor owners....
I've heard about the bits slipping in the plier head system if there isn't a sustained force keeping the handles closed. Does this mean that you can use this to your advantage like a ratcheting system so you don't have to actually spin the tool?
I hope that makes sense....
I have heard that ratcheting like that would work.
I have used PowerPlay enough to say that the force you have to use isnt tremendous, its ok. I havent used Reactors driver, I think the whole tool would explode if I tried.
:tu: :salute:
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This picture is quite useful IMO.
(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1600x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/s/o/sog_pa1001-cp_web_0007_closed-back.png)
You get a better look at the locking mechanism (which looks to be a Leatherman style rocker lock, but with the "spring" stamped out of the sides, rather than the back like on the Rebar). The Pocket clip is a bit wide, but was mounted on the correct side like 50ft said. You can also clearly see that when closed the pliers "butt" acts similarly to the PowerLock's gear covers. This is a pretty great idea, I think.
Also, a closer look at the protractor, which is actually pretty nifty. You can also see that SOG chose to fill in the "holes" that the magnets go into in the Reactor and PowerPlay's bit drivers
(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1600x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/s/o/sog_pa1001-cp_web_0005_bit-lock.png)
The more i look at this tool, the more convinced I am that this could be a real winner for SOG, especially since Leatherman doesn't really have an answer to it.
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And, why the smurf are the locks on the blade and scissors which shouldn't be subject to axial loads, and the drivers which WILL be subject to axial loads are the lock releases.
I think we may be misinterpreting what "lock release" means. I think the Sync locks are a lot like the original SuperTool's, everything can lock. SOG marking the drivers as lock releases simply mean they are the "safe" option to pull out when another tool is open.
Of course, that means you have to pull out the scissors when one of the drivers is deployed, but thats besides the point. Maybe SOG should have marked the "sharp" implements instead.
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I am loving the PowerAccess. I agree that it will be a winner for them (and anyone who purchases). It is a PPP with outside access tools and a pocket clip. The pliers head even looks the same, with addition of the center-axis driver/gear cover section. Win!
The PowerGrab looks a lot like the PowerLock, too, the plier head looks the same besides the new center axis driver section that also functions as gear covers. So I am thinking this will be a win, as well.
I guess this situates the PowerPlay in the category previously held by the original PowerPlier (albeit with locks). I dunno, its almost in no man's land now between these two newer offerings.
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And, why the smurf are the locks on the blade and scissors which shouldn't be subject to axial loads, and the drivers which WILL be subject to axial loads are the lock releases.
I think we may be misinterpreting what "lock release" means. I think the Sync locks are a lot like the original SuperTool's, everything can lock. SOG marking the drivers as lock releases simply mean they are the "safe" option to pull out when another tool is open.
Of course, that means you have to pull out the scissors when one of the drivers is deployed, but thats besides the point. Maybe SOG should have marked the "sharp" implements instead.
You may well be right :salute: I still doubt the need for such small tools to lock in the first place though.
I am loving the PowerAccess. I agree that it will be a winner for them (and anyone who purchases). It is a PPP with outside access tools and a pocket clip. Win!
The PowerGrab looks a lot like the PowerLock, too, so I am thinking this will be a win, as well.
I guess this situates the PowerPlay in the category previously held by the original PowerPlier (albeit with locks).
I think the PowerAccess is one of the strongest design approaches that SOG has had with a full sized power tool for a very long time. Let's hope it lives up to it's promise. I think I'll need a few "SOG sceptics" to have good results with this over an extended period before I'm ready to part with cash again, but judging by the design itself it's evident that there is a will to improve.
We'll have to agree to disagree about it's bigger brother :cheers:
This picture is quite useful IMO.
(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1600x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/s/o/sog_pa1001-cp_web_0007_closed-back.png)
You get a better look at the locking mechanism (which looks to be a Leatherman style rocker lock, but with the "spring" stamped out of the sides, rather than the back like on the Rebar). The Pocket clip is a bit wide, but was mounted on the correct side like 50ft said. You can also clearly see that when closed the pliers "butt" acts similarly to the PowerLock's gear covers. This is a pretty great idea, I think.
Also, a closer look at the protractor, which is actually pretty nifty. You can also see that SOG chose to fill in the "holes" that the magnets go into in the Reactor and PowerPlay's bit drivers
(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1600x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/s/o/sog_pa1001-cp_web_0005_bit-lock.png)
The more i look at this tool, the more convinced I am that this could be a real winner for SOG, especially since Leatherman doesn't really have an answer to it.
I'm glad they stuck with a rocker lock design on this. It's a recognised method that is known to work. Also, being a back lock blade that's outboard mounted, there is scope for a little file work or dremel work to make this a slipjoint blade. The protractor is a novel element, but I'm not sure how practical it would be in real terms. It's a very crude measurement, with no method of locking it off for use as a guide. Hey ho, it's an additional feature for a few etched lines and digits, and can't hurt the tool in any way, even if it's not much kop. :tu:
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I'm surprised Nate (DTT) hasn't popped in here with some comments yet. He's a big SOG fan, so I thought he'd have some input on all this. I wonder where he's hiding? :think:
Nate? :pok: Thoughts?
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Last I heard, Nate was interviewing new Shop Toad Interns.
Seriously, that actually looks pretty darned sweet, and I am really looking forward to it.
Def
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This picture is quite useful IMO.
(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/1600x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/s/o/sog_pa1001-cp_web_0007_closed-back.png)
You get a better look at the locking mechanism (which looks to be a Leatherman style rocker lock, but with the "spring" stamped out of the sides, rather than the back like on the Rebar). The Pocket clip is a bit wide, but was mounted on the correct side like 50ft said. You can also clearly see that when closed the pliers "butt" acts similarly to the PowerLock's gear covers. This is a pretty great idea, I think.
And here's the other side of the tool
(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/o/sog_pa1001-cp_web_0006_bit-holder.png)
The pliers filling the gear teeth is certainly a good idea :tu: in fact I think this might be even more comfortable than the gear cover design of old. The only two SOGs that got regular carry from me, were the Toolclip (which was actually a very comfortable and rugged tool - but the lack of Phillips was a problem for me) and a modified PT-510 (PPP with better plier head and gear covers) which I filled with the tools from a LM PST II. Unfortunately that got nicked, and I never replaced it.
The PA's design takes the PT-510 and improves it. It looks like it stops the gears of madness effect better, comes with a better toolset for general use, adds a pocket clip, and can accommodate standard 1/4" hex bits. The price seems reasonable, the tools lock, and with what seems to be a sensible lock system too. This tool really does tick a lot of boxes.
I need to tick off three more.
This tool is probably the strongest candidate for becoming my third regular carried SOG. I had hoped it was going to be the Switchplier, but that turned out to be quite a disappointment.
Here are the three things that I need to be confident of before handing over money for this tool....
1) Is it well executed? A decent design is one thing, but standard of manufacture is something else, and an area where they have been lacking in recent years. Will this be on par with the old Toolclip and PT-510, when you knew you could trust that everything would be of a high build quality, or will this be another PowerDuo "nice face, shame about the body" routine?
2) Following on from that, will the lock springs fatigue? Those wee slivers of frame bent inwards to tension the locks might not be as forgiving, and able to cycle as many times as the torsion springs used on other designs. If they fail, the springs can't be swapped out - the whole frame has to be replaced - so how long will this tool last me before it craps out?
3) They've gone to a lot of trouble to calm the gears of madness, and also to give us an external toolset, but they've left it with handles that look covered in hotspots. I got rid of a Rebar because I couldn't tolerate the hotspots on it, and this looks worse! Much worse!
So, will it be well made, will it be comfortable, and how long can I realistically expect this to last me? They're the three questions that I'm left asking about this one - and I think it's fair to say this is the only tool which has got me intrigued enough to ask these questions. I I hope the answers are positive ones
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Pricing:
The P.Access and P.Grab appear to be priced in keeping with what would be the competition from other makers. To me the Access seems the better value, but that might be personal bias due to the issues I voiced before.
$67 list for the Access will probably see it hit the market at Rebar price levels, and although it doesn't offer the saw that the Rebar does, it makes up for it with bit driver and compound leverage. Aside from the tech aspects previously discussed, I think this is well pitched and could do really well for them.
$120 list for the Grab, puts it in Surge's price bracket I suppose. Can this compete? For me, if they'd switched around the serrated blade and scissors to have them better orientated, and offered a jigsaw blade adapter instead of being lazy with the bit driver stump, I think they'd have stood a better chance. As it is though, will the compound leverage be enough to sway people from the other function that the Surge offers? I'm not convinced
The Sync tools do seem a little steep for what they offer in respect of function, but we need to bear in mind there is possibly a fair bit of cost in the belt buckle itself and the alternative mounting system. They are however cheaper and probably a lot more useful than another "wearable" multitool we could mention...
I don't know what the hell they were thinking with the Batons. $54 for a pen with scissors and bottle opener. $67 for a small flashlight with a blade and bottle opener. The two pliers versions being $94 and $120 respectively for something that looks like a Gerber Dime style tool (when opened up), albeit slightly bigger (nearly juice sized?) and marketable as a "Self Defence" multitool..... I am assuming that multifunctional kubotan is what they're angling at here. I would be very surprised if these turn out to be big sellers at these prices. However, being an outsourced product at high margins and with zero tooling cost, they can afford for this to be a short lived offering.
The Micro Tool Clip seems right for a dinky keyring gizmo I suppose. Has anything actually changed on this since last time?
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Not me. I still like my Micro Tool Clip.
Especially now that I have removed the spring and ground down the release pin on the clip side.
Def
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Was it snagging on the pocket?
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I found that the lip of my pocket would release the lock and the spring would cause it to open in my pocket.
TBH, one or the other would solve the issue but I did both anyway.
Def
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I'm surprised Nate (DTT) hasn't popped in here with some comments yet. He's a big SOG fan, so I thought he'd have some input on all this. I wonder where he's hiding? :think:
Nate? :pok: Thoughts?
I'm here Al!
Last I heard, Nate was interviewing new Shop Toad Interns.
Seriously, that actually looks pretty darned sweet, and I am really looking forward to it.
Def
No luck with a new Shop Toad since she passed. I don't get it, I offer free beer, room and board and full use to all of the tools in my shop. All they have to do is get petted and take a pic every once in awhile. :think:
I am really digging the Power Grab. Love how the use the plier pivots as the gear covers. Very nice touch on that. Also liking the new blade. Phipps drive seems like it might work better than the old one and love that SOG is still using standard bits. SOG patch stamped on the handle gives it a nice touch, but that is just visual.
What interest me are those Kiku folders. VG-10 steel may indicate Seki-made :ahhh
If it is the same VG-10 that is used in the Vulcans, it should be Seki. While I always preferred carbon to stainless, VG-10 is an awesome steel. Gets very sharp and holds an edge for a long time and does not seem to take forever to sharpen. One of the best stainless in my book. Speaking of knives, they have a few folders and a couple of fixed blades that I wouldn't mind having.
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:woohoo: It's Nate! :nanadance:
Thanks for stopping by mate. :tu:
Sorry about Shop Toad. I think I may have missed that news.
I don't want to burst your bubble, but I think that new Phillips is only available on the PowerAssist. It looks like the PG retains the disappointing old style one.
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When will be out these new models?
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:woohoo: It's Nate! :nanadance:
Thanks for stopping by mate. :tu:
Sorry about Shop Toad. I think I may have missed that news.
I don't want to burst your bubble, but I think that new Phillips is only available on the PowerAssist. It looks like the PG retains the disappointing old style one.
Yeah, we was both away for quite awhile. Life has a way of throwing a monkey wrench into the works and smurfing things up. Glad you are back Al.
Hmmmm, my Power Assist has the old type. But that might because it is an older one. It does ok but I wish it was a number 2 instead of a number 1.
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Sorry Nate - I had a brain fart there. I meant to say PowerACCESS. It seems that it might be a better profiled driver than the old one.
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:salute:
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When will be out these new models?
The usual answer is May, but I don't ave release dates just yet. As soon as I find anything out I will let everyone know. :D
Def
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:cheers:
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So we might see some user reviews by June or July :think: That's a long time to wait to see how far off the mark I am with some of my comments :ahhh
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Last year, the Reactor and PowerPlay were released in February. So, maybe... :pok:
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I've sent a message off to SOG to see what they have to say about release dates.
Def
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I dont think I can wait until June....
Ive never purchased a NIB multitool for myself. The PowerAccess may change that.
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I dont think I can wait until June....
Ive never purchased a NIB multitool for myself. The PowerAccess may change that.
If that isn't high praise I don't know what is!
Def
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(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/o/sog_pa1001-cp_web_0000_main.png)
VS
(http://demandware.edgesuite.net/sits_pod21/dw/image/v2/AAMV_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-master/default/dwa03ccb4c/large/8-rebar.jpg?sw=600&sh=600&sm=fit&sfrm=png)
Replaceable cutters VS Compound leverage and unimpeded gripping area
Inboard Tools VS Outboard Tools
Ph2 and 2x flat drivers VS Ph1 and 4x flat drivers
Saw and serrated blade VS central 1/4" hex driver and protractor
Lanyard ring and sheath VS pocket clip (no sheath)
$60.85 list price VS $67.00 list price
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(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/o/sog_pa1001-cp_web_0000_main.png)
VS
(http://demandware.edgesuite.net/sits_pod21/dw/image/v2/AAMV_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-master/default/dwa03ccb4c/large/8-rebar.jpg?sw=600&sh=600&sm=fit&sfrm=png)
Replaceable cutters VS Compound leverage and unimpeded gripping area
I think PowerAcess wins here. Compound leverage is a huge plus to me, and the replacable wirecutters were never all that special
Inboard Tools VS Outboard Tools
PowerAcess, no contest, outboard is vastly superior for almost all tasks, and makes the pliers more comfortable to use.
Ph2 and 2x flat drivers VS Ph1 and 4x3x flat drivers
[\quote]
I think Rebar wins here. PH2 (especially one that also works on PH1) is just much more useful than the small driver.
Saw and serrated blade VS central 1/4" hex driver and protractor
Sigh. Rebar again, because lets face it, if im pocket carrying, I wont have a bit kit. I wish something else had gone here, but its hardly bad just because I wont use it.
Lanyard ring and sheath VS pocket clip (no sheath)
[\Quote]
PowerAcess. I wish the clip wasnt so large, but I dislike sheath carry.
$60.85 list price VS $67.00 list price
Rebar.
Totals:
Rebar: 3
PowerAcess: 3
smurf.
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I think a lot of people would echo your feelings there. As for the bit kit, with the amount of flat blades on there, plus the smaller Phillips, many people would probably be fine with just a long Ph2 bit, which you could just keep in your wallet if you needed to.
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(http://www.sogknives.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/600x/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/s/o/sog_pa1001-cp_web_0000_main.png)
VS
(http://demandware.edgesuite.net/sits_pod21/dw/image/v2/AAMV_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-master/default/dwa03ccb4c/large/8-rebar.jpg?sw=600&sh=600&sm=fit&sfrm=png)
Replaceable cutters VS Compound leverage and unimpeded gripping area
Inboard Tools VS Outboard Tools
Ph2 and 2x flat drivers VS Ph1 and 4x flat drivers
Saw and serrated blade VS central 1/4" hex driver and protractor
Lanyard ring and sheath VS pocket clip (no sheath)
$60.85 list price VS $67.00 list price
Just a few observations on this particular head to head matchup:
The 2x Flat drivers are dedicated flatheads on the Rebar, while half the 4x Flat Drivers on the SOG are integrated into other tools.
The folding lanyard ring on the Rebar is also quite awful, and is sheet metal so any lanyard is not likely to survive any length of time. And, the sheath issue is easily fixed since you can always buy a sheath to go with it.
I really hate folding lanyard rings. The LM ones are flimsy and sharp and the Gerber ones are really thick and take up too much space. Thankfully at least Gerber has had the sense to stop putting them on tools.
Def
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I've been closely examining the Powergrab and a few things to note
1) The screws that hold the internal tools together are regular torx screws. Which imo means the inner tools will be somewhat interchangeable. Which would be great because I hate sog scissors and the file is not great by any means. I've emailed sog about this but so far no response. If the possibility is there to custom, then :gimme: :gimme: :gimme:
2) The tabs on the side are new lock styles for sog. If you zoom in you can see a small unlock icon on the side. I've attached a pic below. Thank god they didn't use the awful studs from the powerplay. That would immediately turned me off of this tool. Another win....if they work :drool: :drool: :drool:
3) With all of these things in mind, I'm actually hoping this is the new successor to the Powerlock. I enjoy using my PL but it has one huge fault...flimsy covers :bnghd: The powergrab is really looking like a winner, it's like they used the powerplay as a pilot tool and this is their ace.
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That is very interesting- I hadn't looked that closely at it, but that is one of the things I love about this forum! Nothing gets past MTO members! :D
Def
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I thought 50ft had already established those were locks.... :shrug:
I am going to have to change my opinion though, initially I thought those were plenty robust for lock releases, but now that Demel has posted that close up, I'm beginning to have my doubts. That is one thin piece of metal going from the loop to the locks.
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I thought 50ft had already established those were locks.... :shrug:
I am going to have to change my opinion though, initially I thought those were plenty robust for lock releases, but now that Demel has posted that close up, I'm beginning to have my doubts. That is one thin piece of metal going from the loop to the locks.
He might have but I'm still getting caught up on reading. I've been out for a while.
I'm not sure how reliable they are either but that's why I said "if" they work. :tu:
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I thought 50ft had already established those were locks.... :shrug:
I am going to have to change my opinion though, initially I thought those were plenty robust for lock releases, but now that Demel has posted that close up, I'm beginning to have my doubts. That is one thin piece of metal going from the loop to the locks.
Yeah, I'd spotted they were the new lock releases, and mentioned earlier in this thread that I thought they looked a bit delicate. Depending how high they sit off the frame, they might snag on stuff too
EDIT: Actually, I might have mentioned it in the catalogue thread instead
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3) With all of these things in mind, I'm actually hoping this is the new successor to the Powerlock. I enjoy using my PL but it has one huge fault...flimsy covers :bnghd: The powergrab is really looking like a winner, it's like they used the powerplay as a pilot tool and this is their ace.
I agree, especially on this last point. From the initial pic from the catalog, I was thinking that the PowerGrab would end up being the replacement for the PowerLock, but that it didn't look the part. But after the additional images on SOGs website went live, it looks similar to the PL in the right ways, but with some necessary enhancements. I think the bit driver on the reverse of the pliers head was a real game changer, not just for SOG, but the MT industry, so they aggressively sought to saturate the market with their innovation. Now, their "heavy-duty" offering matches up even better with the Surge. Now they have a "mid-size" tool with the PowerPlay to go head to head with Wave. They have the "lightweight" Reactor that competes directly with Skeletool. SOGs answer to the Wingman/Sidekick is the PowerAccess. Basically, from 2014 until now, SOG has completely revamped their multitool line up and they are more competitive with Leatherman
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I hate to admit it, but I'm intrigued by the Baton Q1. And then I look at the additional pictures, realize how large it is, and retract my statement. :facepalm:
I'll probably end up with a Flint, though, once it comes to market.
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I hate to admit it, but I'm intrigued by the Baton Q1. And then I look at the additional pictures, realize how large it is, and retract my statement. :facepalm:
I'll probably end up with a Flint, though, once it comes to market.
I know I'm repeating myself, but I'm REALLY struggling to see market potential for the Batons. Sure, a handful of collectors might grab one, but they are big, too expensive to be "Dad gifts", not particularly ergonomic, and quite light on features considering price and size. There's a lot of better options out there.
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Whoa. Some very cool looking stuff coming out! :tu:
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I have poopoo-ed enough new designs then ended up liking them after using and carrying them (cough Freestyle cough) that while I may have some preconceived notions about the usefulness of a tool, I always keep an open mind about it. It's fine if you don't think you are interested, but my curiosity drives me to the point where I want to try the new tools, and I really want them to work.
Maybe it's because of that cheapo Benchmark that I have played with often that I see more potential in the Baton series, but I have to say they may just be something interesting and new in an unfamiliar package, and I would hate to shoot them down simply because they are different.
Def
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I have poopoo-ed enough new designs then ended up liking them after using and carrying them (cough Freestyle cough) that while I may have some preconceived notions about the usefulness of a tool, I always keep an open mind about it. It's fine if you don't think you are interested, but my curiosity drives me to the point where I want to try the new tools, and I really want them to work.
Maybe it's because of that cheapo Benchmark that I have played with often that I see more potential in the Baton series, but I have to say they may just be something interesting and new in an unfamiliar package, and I would hate to shoot them down simply because they are different.
Def
I agree, this could be a good seller since there's so many ways of carrying a pen and most of them would work for carrying these. They might simply be that these aren't really aimed at MT.o users though since we, almost by definition, are OK with carrying traditionally shaped multitools. I believe that in the EDC-crowd these would fit in perfectly in pocket organisers or indeed in pen slots in briefcases and other bags.
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I have poopoo-ed enough new designs then ended up liking them after using and carrying them (cough Freestyle cough) that while I may have some preconceived notions about the usefulness of a tool, I always keep an open mind about it. It's fine if you don't think you are interested, but my curiosity drives me to the point where I want to try the new tools, and I really want them to work.
Maybe it's because of that cheapo Benchmark that I have played with often that I see more potential in the Baton series, but I have to say they may just be something interesting and new in an unfamiliar package, and I would hate to shoot them down simply because they are different.
Def
Did that with the Signal. Still hate the plastic bits, but apart from that it is great.
I'm going to get the Q4. Don't really think it is all that expensive. I mean between the bits, the ratchet, the sheath and the R&D, new production line etc... it seems not that expensive to me.
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I have poopoo-ed enough new designs then ended up liking them after using and carrying them (cough Freestyle cough) that while I may have some preconceived notions about the usefulness of a tool, I always keep an open mind about it. It's fine if you don't think you are interested, but my curiosity drives me to the point where I want to try the new tools, and I really want them to work.
Maybe it's because of that cheapo Benchmark that I have played with often that I see more potential in the Baton series, but I have to say they may just be something interesting and new in an unfamiliar package, and I would hate to shoot them down simply because they are different.
Def
I don't mind different. I like different, but only if the differences yield improvements without screwing up the design elsewhere, and offering a good functional return for the cost outlay. If the differences offer no benefit other than marketting, and sacrifice functionality, ergonomics, or value, they deserve calling out.
I'm also prepared to be proved wrong on these.
The Batons are indeed innovative in style, and on many (though not all) of the functions seem quite ergonomic. I don't think those differences are enough to justify those prices though. Functional worth doesn't seem to tally with the cost.
The Sync has two positive design aspects, and a few negative. The small pliers/long handles idea is a great concept. The carry system is innovative, and may well be attractive to some people. the carry options bump the price up though, and the cost of making it belt buckle shape is primarily ergonomics. Those castings still concern me too, as does the retention pluger at the pivot.
PowerAccess is a real winner from a design perspective, annoyingly let down on ergonomics (potentially) through no reason other than styling. Making a tool uncomfortable so that is looks nicer, is not a good trade off. Otherwise great effort!
The PowerGrab is a total smurf up in too many other ways to bother mentioning any positives. Lock releases, tool location, duplication, and whatever else annoyed me. It's that bad it's not even worth me remembering why it's bad.
Quality is a different issue, and time will tell on that one. Again, these are all just initial thoughts, which may or may not be relevant to final product.
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I don't mind different. I like different, but only if the differences don't actually change anything.
Fixed that for you... :D
Sorry, I couldn't help it. You are absolutely right though- the changes are only good if they are sensible, and your points earlier are absolutely valid. All I am saying is that if they don't try new things, how will we know if they are any good or not? This is not nearly as radical a departure form the norm as others have in the past, like the Coleman Pro Lock or CRKT Flux that tried component based loadouts, or the Gerber Fit that looked like it belonged on the cover of an 80's mix tape.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAzWDgxMA==/z/A-AAAOSwmtJXaqwX/$_35.JPG)
(http://www.bladesandbows.co.uk/ekmps/shops/bladesbows/images/gerber-fit-tool-9040-p.jpg)
Maybe some of the Batons will sink, maybe they all will. I don't know, but at least I can see the logic in their design and I am looking forward to trying them out. :D
Def
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I don't mind different. I like different, but only if the differences don't actually change anything.
Fixed that for you... :D
Sorry, I couldn't help it. You are absolutely right though- the changes are only good if they are sensible, and your points earlier are absolutely valid. All I am saying is that if they don't try new things, how will we know if they are any good or not? This is not nearly as radical a departure form the norm as others have in the past, like the Coleman Pro Lock or CRKT Flux that tried component based loadouts, or the Gerber Fit that looked like it belonged on the cover of an 80's mix tape.
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAzWDgxMA==/z/A-AAAOSwmtJXaqwX/$_35.JPG)
(http://www.bladesandbows.co.uk/ekmps/shops/bladesbows/images/gerber-fit-tool-9040-p.jpg)
Maybe some of the Batons will sink, maybe they all will. I don't know, but at least I can see the logic in their design and I am looking forward to trying them out. :D
Def
:D
And I look forward to seeing the reviews ;)
I'm not going to knock a company simply for trying something new, but some of the design faux pas that we see from time to time (or to be brutally honest, too smurfing often), are the kind of errors or shortfalls in thinking that you would expect from someone making their first soiree into multitools.
When someone who has been making multitools for over a decade, and has shortfalls that a numpty like me can spot in 10 seconds, they're doing it wrong and deserve a wedgie! It doesn't matter if it's SOG, Leatherman, Gerber, Victorinox (CRKT I can forgive to an extent, as they've never really got the hang of making multitools), they really should have gotten to grasp with the concepts of ergonomics, cost vs value, the basic design essentials (minimum parameters) for each function offered, and fully scrutinised process control in terms of quality, and ensuring there's no loss of meaning or misinterpretation from design to final product.
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I agree for sure. Of course, when a manufacturer gets too far out of line we have to confront them on it.... that's what we are here for, to tread on designs that are all about hype and short on function....
Def
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:P :D
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The Sync 1 and 2, are for me starting to stray a little further into the "novelty gadget" realm.
Firstly, there's the carry method. Some people might really like the idea of a smurfing big belt buckle that can be detatched and used as a tool. Some people might not! I suspect that the polarisation here will be somewhat parallel to thos who like or don't like the look of the Leatherman Tread.
The next thing that struck me was the short pliers and long handles all folding up into a small package. That's clever! The fact that it's an open webbed investment cast construction, is less clever. Here's the thing with castings - they are great under compression, and crap in tension. Yes, some can have improved ductility through smart chemical composition and heat treatment - I have been involved in a number of projects involving centrifugally cast pipe - but generally speaking tensile forces on castings are to be avoided at all costs.
Why are you saying this Al? Where are the tensile forces?
Let's look at the pliers again. When gripping something with the pliers, the extra handle length and short jaws will in theory really let you get a good gripping force. If you give someone that opportunity, they WILL use it. Working from the plier pivot back down the handles, the arm will want to bend due to the forces applied - hopefully it will be rigid enough not to. However, as that wants to bend, the inside is subject to compression forces, and the outside is subject to tension.
Now look at the tool closed up. The part that will be in tension, I reduced in thickness so that it partially fits inside the other handle part and reduces the closed profile.
Did you spot it yet?
The thinnest part of the casting - which doesn't like tensile forces - is the bit that's under tension. The part that is thickest, doesn't need to be. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and suggest that just either side of the centre triangle on the outer edge of the handles are potential fracture points (barring casting defects elsewhere). This might not happen straight away if the casting has been carefully considered at a metallurgical level, but could still be prone to fatigue in these areas.
I see this as potentially being a bigger problem than the hollow plier pivot (a frequent chunter of mine) which enables the engagement plunger to lock the tool into the belt buckle. I can't really make two many presumptions about that, as it's not clear as to how much metal may have been removed to accommodate plunger and spring.
Also, why the smurf do tools this small need locks?
And, why the smurf are the locks on the blade and scissors which shouldn't be subject to axial loads, and the drivers which WILL be subject to axial loads are the lock releases.
AND the form factor of using any of these smaller, unnecessarily locking components looks awkward and uncomfortable.
This tool looks to me like it was designed by marketting people not toolmakers. Target audience is definitely people who don't often buy and use tools - let's call them "Dad gifts" from family members.
I have been guilty in the past of ruthlessly criticising multitools that I have seen online, without even handling one of them.
Today, I had the opportunity to appraise both of these tools close up. I feel totally justified in my original appraisal, and the only new thing that I would add, is that the ergonomics (particularly on the larger version) are even worse than I expected.
I shall therefore continue to criticise tools that I haven't handled yet, as I seem to be fairly good at it :whistle:
:D
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review I found today, more of a first looks but anyway...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaQFP9p4OMg