Multitool.org Forum
Tool Talk => Swiss Army Knights Forum => Topic started by: Max Stone on May 14, 2019, 04:14:37 PM
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Too much factory grease. :facepalm:
I know it’s there for a good reason, but really, do they need to add so much that it ends up coating everything?
What pet peeves do you have with your SAKs, specifically things the factory could change? :dunno:
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I really wish the cellidor scales would retain their shine a bit longer.
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Too much factory grease. :facepalm:
I know it’s there for a good reason, but really, do they need to add so much that it ends up coating everything?
What pet peeves do you have with your SAKs, specifically things the factory could change? :dunno:
Contrary to your experience, I usually find the 91mm ok, but find the Spirit(especially the BO version) soaked in oil. :think: I once handled maybe a dozen BO spirit as company gifts, and man, my hands were oily at the end.
I really wish the cellidor scales would retain their shine a bit longer.
I don't know whether it would help, but people sometimes use turtle car wax to shine it, or better yet, the Novus plastic polish from Container store to bring the shine back.
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Oh boy!
For one thing; and thesis a very long time gripe of mine; ditch the cellidor scales for a more modern and better material like FRN, Delrin, whatever. ANYTHING but the cellidor. Even the nylon like on the economy line is more durable. Anything that won't crack and break off when it falls of a kitchen counter to a tile floor. Or starts to dissolve if in contact with some mosquito repellents or gun cleaning solvents. There just better material now and just as cheap. The material the Gerber LST uses is great!
Then, bring out a cadet with an awl in place of the nail file. An awl is infinitely more useful and adds a second cutting edge for stripping wire, busting zip ties and such.
And finally, take out the orange peeler on the executive and replace it with a small combo tool. and offer a version of the executive with a full serrated blade.
Oh, while I'm complaining, do something about the keyring mount on the pioneer. No other SAK has a keyring mount that digs into the hand like the pioneer. It just sticks right up there at an abrupt angle unlike all the other SAK's that has it more down and not so poky. Why is the alox SAK's get an obnoxious keyring mount? If in doubt, BRING BACK THE HOLLOW RIVIT!!!!!!!!
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Come to think about it, I do wish Victorinox could bring in more renovation to their designs.
I know they are the giant of knives/MT making, and they are at such large volume that any change is a big change to a smaller size knife company. But that too is exactly why they are at that unique position to venture out a little and trying to capture that premium segment of the market.
Just look at the knife market, people are willing to pay hundreds of dollars to purchase one single blade tool. If Victorinox could even upgrade all the components with better material, just even a S35V knife steel, titanium liner, FRN scale...they could easily ask for a higher premium, and people will still be willing to pay for it.
A little less than a hundred years ago, they shown the world an innovative tool with great stainless steel, exceptional quality and consistency, and make themselves famous. Now is the time to bring that innovation back and keep moving forward.
I remember only a decade or so ago, LED flashlight was not all that popular. But as everyone in the flashlight industry are adopting the LED technology, even flashlight giant Maglite has to recognize they are losing profit and market share to all the competitors, and eventually have to adopt the LED tech.
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I wish they would put the blades centre or close to centre-line on the 3+ layer models. I find it awkward to cut or sharpen with blades offset so far to the side.
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Wow guys, some real constructive suggestions here. :like:
I guess Victorinox do some consumer research from time to time?
We should keep these suggestions coming and take them to Victorinox. Manufacturers that listen to their customers tend to be more successful. :pok:
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I wish they would put the blades centre or close to centre-line on the 3+ layer models. I find it awkward to cut or sharpen with blades offset so far to the side.
From a knife enthusiast, I can totally understand where you are coming from. But then just as a devil advocate, if the knife is one of the most used tool, won't you want to have easier/fastest access by having the nail nick exposed at the most obvious location? :pok: :D
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I wish my Deluxe Tinker's scissors and pliers would pivot away from the split ring attachment, like the main blade does.
Maybe instead of all of them being sold in red cellidor by default, and then you having to buy another set of scales, they could sell them allowing us to choose the color (and material) of scales.
And why are not all scales Plus Scales?
No issues with the peening (apart from some used Wengers I got) but it would be great if they had screws.
Tweezers are not robust. The cellidor scales allow for longer and thicker tweezers. Let's see an update.
Also update the whole T&T system. Have additional options, like the Firefly ferro rod, pointed tweezers, sail needle, lock picks, tiny red pen to compliment large blue, or just thin scales if we do not want scale tools.
Why are Garrant SAKs the only 111mm ones to have plus scales? Why are 111mm Plus Scales not sold on their own?
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All good points ReamerPunch. :iagree:
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Many have mentioned more scale options, which I whole heartedly agree. I would especially like some scale options with some grip texture. I find the cellidor hard to maintain a grip on with wet sweaty hands. Nylon with texture, G10, micarta, etc. The alox are nice, but why do I have to lose the scale tools.
@ReamerPunch mention of tool improvements would also be nice.
Factory customization/modifications in tool options. I understand the labor cost would significantly go up for this, but as the modification market shows people want and would pay especially if they would be factory direct with warranty. Change out corkscrew for phillips, hook for awl, small blade for file, insert phillips or magnifier in place of an opener, etc.
A couple more bladeless options, especially in an 84 or 91mm size. Some people want to still be able to have all their other tools where knives are not allowed. How about take the blade layer (and probably also the awl) off an explorer or even a super tinker. Maybe even make a hook belt/strap cutter to replace a blade.
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Why are 111mm liners so thin and soft? They easily bend if dropped--you'd think the heavy duty line would be built stronger than that.
And why doesn't Vic sell scales normally? I'd like to be able to find them more easily. Vic should sell them as widely as they do tweezers, toothpicks, and scissor springs. And while on the topic of scissors springs--why are the old springs for 1970s and older SAKs so hard to find? Only the scissors repair kit has them in it; and just a handful at that.
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Don't know if this is a peeve... No 84mm scissors.... :rant:
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And why doesn't Vic sell scales normally? I'd like to be able to find them more easily.
:salute:
I want 91mm green plus scales for my Deluxe Tinker. I have to order them through ebay, from Switzerland, and wait a month to get them.
And they cost $15. That's a lot of money. You can get a new Huntsman for $30. :think:
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Don't know if this is a peeve... No 84mm scissors.... :rant:
It is, and I concur.
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My biggest pet peeve is the lack of new models in the 91mm line. They keep discontinuing models, but they haven't added a regular-production new one that's stuck in a long time.
Also, I would love something more useful opposite the inline Phillips, like an 0/00 inline Phillips, perhaps.
Agree with others on cellidor and custom knives.
And bring back the Vagabond! :)
- FiL
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I wonder if I compile a summary of suggestions if it’s worth sending to Kristin Oakes, Marketing Manager at Victorinox Swiss Army (USA)? Coming from the most active forum of SAK enthusiasts, she may be interested in having some feedback from us? :dunno:
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Small gripe, but factory edges almost always have small nicks (reflecting light) and needs some attention.
I would love the standard SAK’s to have harder blade steels that offers better edge retention. So many options AEB-L, S30V, M390.
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I agree with the hollow rivet suggestion for the pioneer. I’d like to see the less polished and slightly thicker tools come back. Basically, if they reverted to the earlier old cross pioneer with the bail and bent awl, I’d be happy there.
I’d like to see the tools get a slightly higher hardness as well, so the drivers last a bit longer.
A OHO version of the spirit and a pocket clip option would be cool.
I’m not personally peeved by the cellidor, but I also don’t have any interest in the plastic scales at all :dunno: That being said, even with nice wood or metal scales, my one big beef with the 91 and 84mm line is the back springs not being flush with the liners. It looks bad, feels terrible in use, and look like crap. I seriously hate it :rant: They should borrow a page from Wenger and make them flush.
Really, though, I’m pretty satisfied with Vic’s products. I still find them the best overall.
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Also, I would love something more useful opposite the inline Phillips, like an 0/00 inline Phillips, perhaps.
I agree! The magnifier is fun for about 5 minutes and then you want something far more useful.
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A OHO version of the spirit and a pocket clip option would be cool.
This will be huge!
I think for full length MT, one of the best feature from Spirit/Swisstools are having all the tools readily accesible from the outside, but the missing ingredient is the OHO blade.
I understand it may be more cost effective to have only a few models, which will works worldwide(OHO might not be legal in some region). However, model like Spirit is lightweight enough, and if there is OHO feature, it might even have a chance to cut into the big folding knife market.
With newer models like P2/P4 from LM, where pliers are easily accessible with a flick of wrist, and all tools are accessible even without using nail nicks, I only hope Vic could realize it is the right time to step up their game.
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Pet peeves? Hollow scales (I don't mind cellidor as it's made from a sustainable source). They break too easily and simply don't feel as nice as the old solid ones.
No OHO option for the new Adventurer. Not for me because I don't like the mechanism, but for the many OHO Trailmaster owners who never use the saw.
The otherwise lovely wooden scales on Evowoods that don't sit exactly flush with the liners.
Oh, while I'm complaining, do something about the keyring mount on the pioneer. No other SAK has a keyring mount that digs into the hand like the pioneer. It just sticks right up there at an abrupt angle unlike all the other SAK's that has it more down and not so poky. Why is the alox SAK's get an obnoxious keyring mount? If in doubt, BRING BACK THE HOLLOW RIVIT!!!!!!!!
:iagree:
And why are not all scales Plus Scales?
Why are Garrant SAKs the only 111mm ones to have plus scales? Why are 111mm Plus Scales not sold on their own?
Largely cost, I imagine, because the pen is included. An extra part needing an extra step.
I like the Garant Nomad. Those beautiful blue scales with the orange splashes and the tweezers with a wee ruler on. 8) Too bad it doesn't have a saw.
Factory customization/modifications in tool options. I understand the labor cost would significantly go up for this, but as the modification market shows people want and would pay especially if they would be factory direct with warranty. Change out corkscrew for phillips, hook for awl, small blade for file, insert phillips or magnifier in place of an opener, etc.
A couple more bladeless options, especially in an 84 or 91mm size. Some people want to still be able to have all their other tools where knives are not allowed. How about take the blade layer (and probably also the awl) off an explorer or even a super tinker. Maybe even make a hook belt/strap cutter to replace a blade.
:iagree:
I love both these ideas. Needless redundancy annoys me. For a while I've thought that if I ever got into modding I'd make a bladeless, openerless Handyman or Swisschamp to compliment my Trailmaster at work. Or to compliment a Pioneer or 84mm everywhere else. A slim knife for the pocket; a MT for the bag.
Why are 111mm liners so thin and soft? They easily bend if dropped--you'd think the heavy duty line would be built stronger than that.
And why doesn't Vic sell scales normally? I'd like to be able to find them more easily. Vic should sell them as widely as they do tweezers, toothpicks, and scissor springs. And while on the topic of scissors springs--why are the old springs for 1970s and older SAKs so hard to find? Only the scissors repair kit has them in it; and just a handful at that.
All those things. :iagree: I'd really like to see a 93mm alox range scaled up to 111mm. Longer, locking blade; locking flat SD/pry bar; longer SAW; the AWL. 8)
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My SAK pet peeves are:
1. People who don't understand economies of scale and modern production processes for inexpensive commodity products and constantly demand this or that feature or niche models that have both limited market appeal and poor commercial viability.
That's about it, really. :whistle:
Oh, and the combo tool. Such a poor choice to add that to any SAK. :twak:
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If I could magically change one thing about my BY soldier, it would be to have the hollow rivet. :drool:
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No Victorinox shop in Sydney.
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My SAK pet peeves are:
1. People who don't understand economies of scale and modern production processes for inexpensive commodity products and constantly demand this or that feature or niche models that have both limited market appeal and poor commercial viability.
That's about it, really. :whistle:
Oh, and the combo tool. Such a poor choice to add that to any SAK. :twak:
I don't know :dunno: I'd argue that these things are what can make niche products economically viable for a company to produce. They allow the company to produce its core products for lower prices, which allow greater profits, which can lead to greater capital investment and accumulation. This can then be used for R&D and other things, including producing more niche products in the hopes of capturing additional market share.
Using cars as an example, just think of the Model T, one of the first mass produced cars. It was cheaper than the niche products before, and was famously only available in any color you like, so long as it's black. But, economies of scale, improved production processes and capital investment brought with them falling prices and the introduction of many colors and variants. This in turn has lead to where we are today, spoiled for choice for automobiles.
I think you can see the same thing with SAKs. Initially only a few models that have now exploded into the vast variety of options we have. :drink:
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That's what I forgot to mention! The magnifier lens popping out of the translucent frame. I've found I have to be ridiculously careful to open it slowly. Twice, the one in my Explorer has popped out when I've snapped the magnifier open, not even with as much force as opening a blade. Just that little snap was enough. It gave me a devil of time one day, trying to find the lens on the kitchen floor.
Surely Vic can sort this one out for free, or nearly free. :dunno:
Just quickly, before I shoot of to work. I totally understand the point about the economic viability of developing and manufacturing new products. I'm not really serious about my 111mm alox wishlist. The current ranges are pretty well balanced in my opinion. But Vic does come out with surprises. The Pioneer X, for instance, and the Walker which is really a reissue of an older model.
There are also the specials made for +Bianco. If they can be done, custom runs could be well viable.
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That's what I forgot to mention! The magnifier lens popping out of the translucent frame. I've found I have to be ridiculously careful to open it slowly. Twice, the one in my Explorer has popped out when I've snapped the magnifier open, not even with as much force as opening a blade. Just that little snap was enough. It gave me a devil of time one day, trying to find the lens on the kitchen floor.
Surely Vic can sort this one out for free, or nearly free. :dunno:
I must agree about the magnifier lens popping out on the translucent frame...it has now happened to me 4 times on 3 different Swiss Champs.
I have never had a lens pop out of the old style gray frame magnifier.
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The magnifier security on the current design is poor I do agree. It pops out on my Explorer with little effort. >:(
I’m seeing a trend of suggested improvements coming through, together with more ‘wish-list’ related suggestions. They are all great, and I do believe many could be (should be) seriously considered by the factory.
Let’s keep them coming! :think:
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Oh yeah, I've had the magnifier lens pop out of the housing on my Champion Plus twice recently. PITA.
- FiL
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I just wish I could buy any color scales I wanted directly from Vic... :dunno:
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I agree. They could easily open a direct sales channel for spares in the major markets, but I expect they will not support this idea because the scales are technically not user replaceable. What they could do is allow their approved resellers to sell scales to the public and to let them offer a replacement scale service.
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Alox scales that accommodate a toothpick.
And maybe carbon fiber spectacle frames that have miniature SAK-like multitools magnetically mounted on the temples. Seems like that would sell. ;-)
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Fix the tweezer hole on classics so it stays in there without me having to put tape on it
Put brighter LED's in models that have them
Replace hook with package opener/strap cutter, I have never used the hook
Make back scale tools less of a nailbreaker, maybe increase height by a smidge
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Camo scales with plus option. Models like the Craftsman brought back that show a obvious demand based on auction site sales I've seen. It seems like the more useful they are to me without nonsense I won't use, they more apt they are to be limited run or collectibles that are harder to find. I don't understand that. That's the point they are missing larger volume sales.
One comment I read was about letting people customize their knives. They are never going to do this. It will take away market value of anything they might produce in limited runs that they know people want. (Deluxe Angler, Master Fisherman, etc..you know... combinations that are useful, well-rounded and make sense for the purpose intended) It's aggravating, but I'm sure that's why it won't happen and it would also make the collectors (purists) that is a given market for them with new models throw up their hands and say "I'm out" at that point. This is also the reason they aren't going to let you pick the scales as many of the knvies hold their value in the scales, not the tool combination. "I'd like a Fisherman with blue scales please..."
There are certain tools, like the scales, that should be more readily replaceable with snap fit (like the magnifying lens) If you felt like changing them out, you could also choose 8x or 5x power as well. (Also - the pop out lens version was a horrible idea) What would be really nice is a lens with even more power for use as a fire starter, and plus scale model with a small ferro-rod instead of the pen.
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Some good comments and ideas CraftsmanSAK. :iagree:
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One nice touch they could incorporate is the scale protector that you peel off that they use on the evo models, be cool if this was standard.
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I would like to see some SA's with scales made of carbon fiber, or G10. Maybe, replaceable jaws on their multi's would be a good idea too! Just my two-cents. :P
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Good suggestions Blackbeard and eTripper. :tu:
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Despite the claims of manufacturer Albis Plastics, I feel the cellulose-acetate based Cellidor is way out of date for a scale material. By the 1960s, American cutlery firms moved from cellulose acetate based synthetic scales (which can, quite easily shrink, warp, and crack) to the far more hardy Delrin (which was actually developed with use as a knife handle in mind). And many others use Zytel. But, according to the manufacturer, Cellidor is plant-based, and thus "green" and "sustainable". Maybe that's why Vic is sticking with it, even though better synthetic scale materials were developed more than 50 years ago. The impact resistance isn't great (I'm always dealing with chipped scales on SAKs I use a lot), and not to resistant to gasoline and other chemicals. Yet, I have never seen a knife with broken Delrin scales; but dozens of SAKs with Cellidor.
Nylon scales are far hardier, grip better, and seeing as they're mostly used on budget models, apparently cheaper to produce. But we only see them on budget models, StayGlow, and most 111mm.
As for replaceable cutters--don't see the point. The SwissTool has one of the hardiest MT plier heads, and replaceable cutters would lessen that.
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Yes, the Cellulose acetate butyrate (CAB) topic is certainly near the top of the list! :iagree:
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Cellidor has its downsides, I agree. Nylon scales are certainly more robust in all ways, but Vic doesn't make plus ones.
Solid cellidor scales do break, yet are much stronger than hollow ones. My venerable Swisschamp with solid scales arrived with the exposed liners at the can opener end bent to heck from what must have been a very nasty drop. The scale has a large chip at that end and a smaller one at the other end beside the tweezers, on a liner I couldn't straighten. The other scale has a small fracture between the pen and toothpick.
Impressive performance, I feel! :salute:
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I agree! The magnifier is fun for about 5 minutes and then you want something far more useful.
Nooooo :ahhh
I wouldn't mind a SAK which has another tool against the in-line Phillips, as long as they keep selling the ones with the magnifier glass as well.
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Bring back the bail on all knives.
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Bring back the bail on all knives.
Big fan of them, but then you'd have those who whine because the blade got chipped when it struck the bail. I've had TL-29 type knives since I was old enough to carry a knife (in fact, a Colonial electrician was my second knife), and learned to pay attention. And then, the scales would not be user replaceable any more. I think they'd do better including them on Alox.
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My biggest pet peeve with Victorinox is the fact that the Delémont Saks are still so much more expensive compared to their Victorinox counterparts...
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:nothingtoadd:
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My biggest pet peeve with Victorinox is the fact that the Delémont Saks are still so much more expensive compared to their Victorinox counterparts...
This. :iagree:
And if they did Toothpick & Tweezers with wooden scales.
EDIT
And there isn't a Delemont Pocket Tool Chest either
I'm done...
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This. :iagree:
And if they did Toothpick & Tweezers with wooden scales.
EDIT
And there isn't a Delemont Pocket Tool Chest either
I'm done...
:iagree: By far the most popular Wenger here I believe. And most of Wenger's quirky special tools never carried over. The clip point blade and the flat Phillips (replacing the nail file I never use) were two prominent ones.
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I don't really have too many pet peeves regarding Victorinox. For the most part, I love their stuff. Just some minor nitpicks from me.
- I do really wish that multiple colors of alox were standard. The silver is absurdly boring. Red and black Farmers and Electricians should always be available.
- I do wish that Victorinox would do better than the standard 93mm alox keyring. It's in a bit of an uncomfortable spot. I'd love for them to develop a new spot for the keyring, that could be swapped with an optional pocket clip, and put on all 93mm alox models.
- Please fix that funky nail nick position on the Pioneer X scissors, please.
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I don't really have too many pet peeves regarding Victorinox. For the most part, I love their stuff. Just some minor nitpicks from me.
- I do really wish that multiple colors of alox were standard. The silver is absurdly boring. Red and black Farmers and Electricians should always be available.
- I do wish that Victorinox would do better than the standard 93mm alox keyring. It's in a bit of an uncomfortable spot. I'd love for them to develop a new spot for the keyring, that could be swapped with an optional pocket clip, and put on all 93mm alox models.
- Please fix that funky nail nick position on the Pioneer X scissors, please.
Agreed with the alox colours and keyring (bring back the bail!).
But the nail nick is like that so that it will work on the 111mm line. Changing that would mean that they have to make yet another distinct scissors part.
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A better blade steel would great, even something like 12c27 that shouldn't increase costs much.
I'd also like to see more Alox models in standard production, like the Rambler (or a Cadet with scissors...).
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It would be really sweet of Victorinox was to do a limited re-release of old alox patterns each year.
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My biggest pet peeve is the lack of new models in the 91mm line. They keep discontinuing models, but they haven't added a regular-production new one that's stuck in a long time.
Also, I would love something more useful opposite the inline Phillips, like an 0/00 inline Phillips, perhaps.
Agree with others on cellidor and custom knives.
And bring back the Vagabond! :)
- FiL
But wouldn't the resultant layer just be kind of a discount bit driver layer? BTW it could be less premium priced.
Little nitpick that came to mind, the small blade would be neat if it was a different type as the main. Overall for a Swiss Army Knife there's a serious lack of available blade types in the 91mm line.
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...especially when you look at the many blade types available with the 111mm range. :iagree:
Good points all. :like:
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Put the keyring on the Classic on the other end of the knife! That way I can use the blade without having to hold a fistful of keys while doing so! :bnghd:
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My only peave/wish is an explorer with a saw instead of scissors.
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Read through the list, so far, and I can agree with pretty much all of them.
My main gripe is that if you want to actually carry one of the limited edition series knives is that the design wears away too easily. CraftsmanSAK mentioned camo scales... Well carry one around and before long they're simply black scales.
There should be a better way to maintain the design.
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My only peave/wish is an explorer with a saw instead of scissors.
I do agree! I also wish they make an alox version.. But in the mean time it's quite a simple mod to do your self
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190518/750fd82d62704ff71f1797af2ba5e2cb.jpg)
[It's not failure if you learn something from it]
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I have read every post here and I do agree with some and disagree with others.
I do wish they made the explorer with saw as standard tool, makes much more sense
More alox tools on alox models, change the keyring nub on the same.
Sell custom versions from the factory, maybe even loose tools and 93mm awl for the 91mm line
I have no problem with the steel on the SAK, or aluminum liner and celidor scales. I love that it's a tool that I can use and abuse, touch up the blade on the back of a coffie mug and just keep going without worrying that I destroy something that worth a lot of money. No shelf queens here but users and if one break beyond repair or gets lost I just get another one.
And I don't want the tip of the drivers to be polished, I want them ruff to get a better grip
[It's not failure if you learn something from it]
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Read through the list, so far, and I can agree with pretty much all of them.
My main gripe is that if you want to actually carry one of the limited edition series knives is that the design wears away too easily. CraftsmanSAK mentioned camo scales... Well carry one around and before long they're simply black scales.
There should be a better way to maintain the design.
I've been attracted to camo scales lately. Thanks for the caveat - much as I didn't want to hear it! I'd want them for a user so I'll give them a swerve now.
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And I forgot, I want an bladeless version with opening layer, scissors and maybe a magnifier
[It's not failure if you learn something from it]
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The cellidor scales are cheap and easy to replace, either by you or in the factory. That's probably why Vic sticks with the cellidor.
I don't like scissors on a knife. They are only useful for grooming your nails. Every other duty can be performed by the blade.
A Champion without scissors and fish thing, or a Handyman without the scissors, but with an inline Philips would be my perfect choice for a small survival knife.
The perfect larger survival knives are the 111 mm Atlas and Tradesman tools. Unfortunately they are not produced anymore. Such a bad thing!
The Spirit (without the X) is really my favorite multi-tool, together with the LM Rebar and Charge TTi (although in my opinion the Wave/Charge models are too heavy for EDC). However I miss a diamond file on the Spirit (like on the LM Wave and Charge models).
What also could be a small innovation is a sort of 'marker' on the sheep foot blade of the Spirit, so you can feel this blade with your fingers without taking a look at it. When you need it as a belt cutter it is not immediately to recognize. You have to look for it, because when it is closed it looks the same as the other blade.
Recently I talked to a Victorinox representative and I asked him why Vic is rather conservative and has virtually no innovative designs. He told me "we still sell them by the millions, so no need to change".
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Some interesting points EMZ. :like:
Companies that do not innovate eventually go under, and regardless of selling millions of knives a year, Victorinox had to branch into new product categories to survive. The flip side is that they are no longer as dependent on the SAK portfolio so there’s less need to innovate.
What they have to watch is their quality. If this dips, customers will begin to migrate to competing brands. I would go so far to say that their quality is the number one factor that keeps us loyal customers.
The Vic rep that said they don’t need to change because they sell millions of knives is missing the point. They sell millions because of their reputation and quality. Best they don’t screw that up.
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Some interesting points EMZ. :like:
Companies that do not innovate eventually go under, and regardless of selling millions of knives a year, Victorinox had to branch into new product categories to survive. The flip side is that they are no longer as dependent on the SAK portfolio so there’s less need to innovate.
What they have to watch is their quality. If this dips, customers will begin to migrate to competing brands. I would go so far to say that their quality is the number one factor that keeps us loyal customers.
The Vic rep that said they don’t need to change because they sell millions of knives is missing the point. They sell millions because of their reputation and quality. Best they don’t screw that up.
:iagree:
Ever since the 9-11, all the airport stores sales had been heavily affected since they mostly sell knives, and they started to branch out to other business(luggage/fashion/watch/etc) and probably did quite well there too. I just hope they will not move away from their MT/knife business, because that's their root and pillar.
After reading dozens of 'pet peeves'/wants, I can't help but starting to see hiraethus' point--allow me to be a devil advocate for a bit, they have been around for more than a century, and they are the king of knives. Of all people in the industry, one would figure they must have known the business rather well. All those 'options' we want(myself included), are probably icing on the cake, but can't hardly justify it is the necessity.
It is like the CRK knives in knife world, people often wonder why over so many years, they only offer a few models. The matter of truth is they are constantly in such high demand that they probably working at full capacity making and less time to design. And if something works, why change it anyway?
I only hope going forward, they will not shrink their products offering--one greatest thing about SAKs is not just the impeccable quality and consistency, compactness of tools, but the variety of it. With the variety of layers and tools, it is always possible to find something that fits your need. It may not be 100% personalize and perfect fit, but a good 70-80%? Nonetheless, I am rambling, if Victorinox reps are reading this, just like to say thank you, these tools have been great, please continue. :tu:
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:iagree:
Ever since the 9-11, all the airport stores sales had been heavily affected since they mostly sell knives, and they started to branch out to other business(luggage/fashion/watch/etc) and probably did quite well there too. I just hope they will not move away from their MT/knife business, because that's their root and pillar.
After reading dozens of 'pet peeves'/wants, I can't help but starting to see hiraethus' point--allow me to be a devil advocate for a bit, they have been around for more than a century, and they are the king of knives. Of all people in the industry, one would figure they must have known the business rather well. All those 'options' we want(myself included), are probably icing on the cake, but can't hardly justify it is the necessity.
It is like the CRK knives in knife world, people often wonder why over so many years, they only offer a few models. The matter of truth is they are constantly in such high demand that they probably working at full capacity making and less time to design. And if something works, why change it anyway?
I only hope going forward, they will not shrink their products offering--one greatest thing about SAKs is not just the impeccable quality and consistency, compactness of tools, but the variety of it. With the variety of layers and tools, it is always possible to find something that fits your need. It may not be 100% personalize and perfect fit, but a good 70-80%? Nonetheless, I am rambling, if Victorinox reps are reading this, just like to say thank you, these tools have been great, please continue. :tu:
:iagree:
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I don´t really have any peeves. But it would be nice if Vx made available the BuSchroder / Bushcrafter in large quantities, and affordable for everyone, without any modding.
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Im knocking the dust off of this thread. :cheers:
My biggest pet peeve right now is that Vic does not make a cadet with scissors. :pok:
The Wiki shows that they made the Cadet Plus which included a saw... They were so close...
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My biggest pet peeve right now is that Vic does not make a cadet with scissors.
Same here. I'd buy a dozen on the day they released it and every limited edition color they released thereafter.
For now I make my own:
(https://i.imgur.com/cLrZDVe.jpg)
After I built this one, I decided to grind the can opener down to a fine screwdriver, which is more useful for my day-to-day needs.
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I have several SAK pet peeves.
The biggest one is probably the fact that I don't like redundancy, so specifically I wouldn't get a SAK that has both a can opener and inline Phillips screwdriver (a backside Phillips would be fine, as the different handling justifies its presence).
A minor pet peeve is the color of the plastic in the scale tools: gray for the tweezers head and off-white for the toothpick. It is my understanding that these color were chosen because they most closely resembled the color of the original material these parts were made of: aluminum for the tweezers head and ivory for the toothpick. This, just like any other "imitation", slightly annoys me.
And finally, the tip of the metal file/saw. Especially now that the tool is made of stainless steel and, as such, is quite aggressive, why does it have a nail cleaning tip? I don't like the idea of a manicure tool mixed with my rugged tools.
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My pet peeve is there are no magnifying glass on the 111mm’s :rant:
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I don't have that much pet peeves but, if any, it's the bloody hollow scales.... :rant: :twak:
Why on earth did they abandoned the much solid standard cellidor solid scales is beyond me... :facepalm: I mean... does it save THAT much material? Is it THAT much cheap to produce than the older ones...?
I can understand the thinner tang in the main blade, as it makes no difference in the blade sturdiness, and it saves a considerate amount of waste metal from the blade blank on the grinding process.
Another well known pet peeve of mine it's not regarding the SAK's per se, but some of Vic policies endlessly making SE/LE targeted for collectors with only cosmetics differences from standard models, while making almost none SE/LE for actual users with either material improvements, or bringing back discontinued models (even if in small amounts).
The Climber with the nickel liners comes to mind, sturdier and less prone to corrosion metal. Models like the Yeoman, Clipper, Passenger, Trailguide, and others (esp. in the 3 layer category), could come back from time to time as SE/LE, i mean just standard models, no fancy scales or boxes. It only takes different assembly of existing production line parts, no extra cost to produce.... Just a thought... :think:
And finally, the tip of the metal file/saw. Especially now that the tool is made of stainless steel and, as such, is quite aggressive, why does it have a nail cleaning tip? I don't like the idea of a manicure tool mixed with my rugged tools.
I don't mind it that much, we only see it as a "nail cleaning tip" cause Vic called it that way. I just see it as a pointy smooth surface that can be good for light prying or probing. If you sharpen that edge a bit it can also be a good scraper... :think:
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More Nylon scales. In different colours please. :)
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Shallow nail nicks, make some blades/tools difficult to open.
Rich
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Another member of the "what the hell was Victorinox thinking when they got rid of the 84mm scissors" club here. I'd love to see a return of the original Golfer, and a "Cadet X" would be awesome..
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I like the fieldmaster.
What I don't like is lack of similar offering in 84mm, 93mm (famer x), and the bigger sizes... :twak:
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Same here. I'd buy a dozen on the day they released it and every limited edition color they released thereafter.
For now I make my own:
(https://i.imgur.com/cLrZDVe.jpg)
After I built this one, I decided to grind the can opener down to a fine screwdriver, which is more useful for my day-to-day needs.
Myron, that is a GREAT mod!! :hatsoff:
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Myron, that is a GREAT mod!! :hatsoff:
Why thank you, Mr. Deuce. I carry a red one just like it every day. The silver one sits waiting for me to break up with my red one for a time. ;-)
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A lot of good suggestions and peeves. My biggest pet peeve is I would like to see nylon scales as standard on the 84 & 91mm models just like they are on the 111 mm. I would also like to see a pen blade as standard on the Cadet instead of the nail file.
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A lot of good suggestions and peeves. My biggest pet peeve is I would like to see nylon scales as standard on the 84 & 91mm models just like they are on the 111 mm. I would also like to see a pen blade as standard on the Cadet instead of the nail file.
I hope you mean for the nylon scales to be a standard alternative in addition to the standard cellidor scales, not replacing them.
That i would agree. Can't even imagine my beloved standard red cellidor scales with initialy'd logo being out of production someday... :ahhh
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None of these are peeves, just some thoughts...
More knifeless/ v-cutter options. Tool "families" making more sense in trade specific models. 5mm allen key instead of corkscrew? Pairing screwdrivers with something like a 2.5mm chisel ended bradawl. Pozi drivers instead of phillips. Improved LED with translucent scales and strobe mode to make a small beacon. A duo small and large combi pouch.
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A lot of good suggestions and peeves. My biggest pet peeve is I would like to see nylon scales as standard on the 84 & 91mm models just like they are on the 111 mm. I would also like to see a pen blade as standard on the Cadet instead of the nail file.
Doesn't the Cadet II have a pen blade?
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I'm going to agree with a Cadet X. They did right with a Pioneer X, and they definitely have the ability to make a Cadet X too. They seem to be slower than bureaucracy when it comes to things many people want (and would happily pay for)
among others:
-more colors in Nylon rather than just red, and red with no shield. White, blue, green, yellow would be nice.
-speaking of nylon, what about a pen slot rather than me having to use my file and filing out my own pen slot?
-Why aren't all modern cellidor SAK's plus scales? It's not a mutually exclusive design element, like combo opener.
-and while we're on pens, why can't the 91mm knives have sliding pens like on the 58mm? Yes I know I can place it under the hook, but I wouldn't have to unless a sliding pen was already there.
-toothpick/tweezer slots on Alox
-nail files on hooks - some models have those, however, ALL of them can have them, but don't. See pen slot, above.
-G10, CF, all kinds of new material scales, but still stuck with Cellidor, Alox, and Nylon. it's the 21st century and the most recent thing they ever came out with is.....Cybertool?
-the biggest peeve of all is not using torx screws and rather the peened brass they use now. Oh, the options and fun we'd all have if they were torx'ed together like Leathermen and Bokers!
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The sliding pen system requires a bit more clearance ergo scale thickness and slider of course is an additional thing that can quite likely break on heavy duty knifes, and may cause discomfort in use and complicate cleaning. Wouldn't even handier than the regular one on thicker knives.
That plain plus scales aren't standard is very annoying though. And that special editions usually omit plus scales, sometimes even on models that normally have them is outright ridiculous.
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I'm going to agree with a Cadet X. They did right with a Pioneer X, and they definitely have the ability to make a Cadet X too.
I'm still waiting for a Pioneer X Plus (Pioneer X w/ wood saw). All these tools are already offered on 93mm models, so it would just be a matter of putting them together.
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...Models like the Yeoman, Clipper, Passenger, Trailguide, and others (esp. in the 3 layer category), could come back from time to time as SE/LE, i mean just standard models, no fancy scales or boxes. It only takes different assembly of existing production line parts, no extra cost to produce.... Just a thought... :think:
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Very sensible suggestion MacGyver. It may be still a good idea to market them as a "re-edition" to create some interest at a retail level, otherwise they could just get lost among the rest of the range (95% of Victorinox buyers may never have heard of a Yeoman). Even it they just pick one of the historic scale colours, such as solid blue, to create some differentiation. :dunno:
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Very sensible suggestion MacGyver...
Ditto. :iagree:
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More use of the 84mm saw; which was recently reintroduced with the Walker. I'd like to see the Hiker and Camper Small again, as well as a Cadet+saw. And 84mm scissors. I guess Vic's answer is--why not the Wenger scissors? Comparatively, they SUCK.
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... people moaning over the same stuff over and over again, where we know the actual reasons (for Vic not to address the problem) from old threads in this same forum. :P
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I suppose that’s a valid pet peeve. :facepalm:
But there are some fresh ideas, and even revisiting old issues makes them no less relevant. :salute:
And some forum members do have contact with the factory, so never say never... :whistle:
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... people moaning over the same stuff over and over again, where we know the actual reasons (for Vic not to address the problem) from old threads in this same forum. :P
Well...
Can you give some examples of the threads where some of these "moans" have awnsered by someone at Vic regarding these issues then...? :pok:
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Well...
Can you give some examples of the threads where some of these "moans" have awnsered by someone at Vic regarding these issues then...? :pok:
Any special reason this exact peeve has to be justified, as opposed to anything else? Also, a reason can actually be factual without coming from Vic. But, OK, I'll bite, here's a simple one: The four layers alox SAK. The discussions around the Pioneer X made the modders conclude a four layer alox SAK would require redesigning the spacers and/or modify the assembly process, since the thickness of the Pioneer X is already just at the limit of what will make the pins bend. (And write me off as a whiner who had the gall to present a peeve in the pet peeves thread if you don't believe me and want to me to search the threads for you, because I won't.)
Edit: Sorry, lost my temper. I will refrain from posting any more in this thread.
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Any special reason this exact peeve has to be justified, as opposed to anything else? Also, a reason can actually be factual without coming from Vic. But, OK, I'll bite, here's a simple one: The four layers alox SAK. The discussions around the Pioneer X made the modders conclude a four layer alox SAK would require redesigning the layers and/or modify the assembly process, since the thickness of the Pioneer X is already just at the limit of what will make the pins bend. (And write me off as a whiner who had the gall to present a peeve in the pet peeves thread if you don't believe me and want to me to search the threads for you, because I won't.)
Edit: Sorry, lost my temper. I will refrain from posting any more in this thread.
Waw.... Okkkk......
Sorry if you are so touchy about he subject... I was just trying to be humourous, not cynical....
I'll refrain from posting any more in this thread too, have better and more important things to do with my time than get into arguments with anyone over a bleeding pocket knife... :facepalm:
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Double post, sory
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Victorinox has so many models but they arent modular, my dream sak is an explorer without the magnifying glass but with pliers and the out the front phillips! That and no pocket clip, thoug i did see something where a guy had removed the keyring and used the hole to bolt in a small pocket clip.
And why no 91mm with 2 big blades, one serrated and one regular. I rarely use the saw or file except as a liftee pokee.
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I wouldn’t call it a pet peeve, but more of a miniscule suggestion: I’d like the ruler on the fish scaler to be marked with millimetres. Aitor can manage this, so I’m sure Victorinox could! When you’re measuring small things you generally want a certain amount of precision (e.g. I sometimes use the ruler on my Swisstool to measure screws and other small parts).
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I wouldn’t call it a pet peeve, but more of a miniscule suggestion: I’d like the ruler on the fish scaler to be marked with millimetres. Aitor can manage this, so I’m sure Victorinox could! When you’re measuring small things you generally want a certain amount of precision (e.g. I sometimes use the ruler on my Swisstool to measure screws and other small parts).
Which is basically all I use MT rulers for, so I can get the right bolt or wrench when needed. WIth small rulers, it's gonna be small stuff, so mm is a good addition. But, to get it right, they'd probably have to laser etch it like on the MiniChamp. And while we use the English system in the US, I find myself measuring small stuff in millimeters. It's simply just a better system than trying to add up something like 2 13/16 or trying to remember what fractional my ruler is marked in (I have one that's marked in eighths, tenths, twelfths, and sixteenths--and that can get confusing!)
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Which is basically all I use MT rulers for, so I can get the right bolt or wrench when needed. WIth small rulers, it's gonna be small stuff, so mm is a good addition. But, to get it right, they'd probably have to laser etch it like on the MiniChamp. And while we use the English system in the US, I find myself measuring small stuff in millimeters. It's simply just a better system than trying to add up something like 2 13/16 or trying to remember what fractional my ruler is marked in (I have one that's marked in eighths, tenths, twelfths, and sixteenths--and that can get confusing!)
Yeah, I'm glad the UK has basically gone metric. So much easier for every kind of unit.
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I want my most used tools in as small a package as possible. Mainly a knife, scissors, Philips screwdriver that can reach recessed screws. Ideally a serrated knife, pen and LED flashlight as well. I'd like them to bring back 84mm models with scissors, such as the Salesman or Wenger Teton. The "evolution" series has some, but they have fat scales that negate the size advantage.
Or bring back the Yeoman which is 91mm but has the advantage of the inline Philips. And give it an LED light instead of a magnifier. Or make a Compact with a Philips instead of the corkscrew.
Having 2 plain blades on every knife is a waste of space. If they're going to have 2, one should be serrated.
I would also like textured scales of some kind, for better grip and also so I don't worry about scratching it up. I had a Traveller Lite that had matte red translucent nylon scales I liked. It looked more like a tool and less of a showpiece, but it still looked nice. I had to sell it because it was too valuable, got a Huntsman Lite to replace it.
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Some good suggestions knifetert. :like:
The Yeoman remains popular, even as a mod. As are 84mm scissors. You can find aftermarket scales with a rougher texture such as G10, but it would be nice to have some factory options, even if just as scales swaps. Have you tried the wood scaled SAKs? That texture is cool, and wears nicely. :salute:
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I'd draw a distinction between pet peeves and wishes, and I would say that I can't really think of a pet peeve except perhaps for wasted space - There's no tool on the backspring of the in-line Phillips/magnifier layer.
I feel like the SAK lineup limitations are part of their charm. You have to take the good with the bad, and it's sometimes easier when you know the "why"... and sometimes good enough, is all you need.
Let me explain:
- I'd like it if my Champion, Swiss Champ, and Compact didn't have the MP Hook. But I find the scissors indispensable. But you and I both know very well that the backspring tool of the 91mm scissors is ALWAYS the hook.... so I'm ok with having that particular layer.
- When I was a kid, the scale colors were red or black. To me, it was never about "my favorite color". I see it as Vic picking colors that were functional "tools" themselves. My EDC Compact is a classy tuxedo black, while my outdoor Champion is bright red so that I can recover it easily from the forest floor. Sure, I like orange and blue... but those aren't SAK colors in my mind.
- I wish that the Cadet didn't have a nail file. But then that low-impact, little SAK wouldn't be so... domesticated - would it? But then neither am I, nor is the Vic Soldier that's in my pocket right now.
- Yes, I'm not scaling fish any time soon. But I'm glad I can take quick measurements from time to time
- I'm led to believe that 93mm Alox models can't get wider than 4 layers. Well thanks to Victorinox for keeping my Champion in circulation after all these years.
For me, a big part of the fun is finding the " best fit" tool at a particular time (usually before I leave the house). Have I picked the wrong one before? Yes. I have cut fruit with the Swiss Champ in my fist despite my having opposable thumbs. I have had to get back to camp to get tweezers out of my first aid kit while the Solder was in my pocket.
That said - I would agree that a mm ruler on the fish scaler would be helpful. I agree that LE/SE models, including some discontinued classics rather than just new colors, would be nice.
I'm curious to know how everyone has evolved in their EDC SAKs over the course of their lives - if and why they changed the models, whether that's because of a new job, hobbies, realizations, or changes in taste.
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Well said. :hatsoff:
I'm curious to know how everyone has evolved in their EDC SAKs over the course of their lives - if and why they chanced the models, whether that's because of a new job, hobbies, realizations, or changes in taste.
One of the best reasons to be around here is to hear about the experiences from other users.
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I'm curious to know how everyone has evolved in their EDC SAKs over the course of their lives - if and why they changed the models, whether that's because of a new job, hobbies, realizations, or changes in taste.
I’ve been a Compact fan for decades, and I still think it’s the ideal SAK for my everyday real-world requirements.
With that said, I find myself carrying a Pioneer more and more often these days. It’s even thinner than the Compact, and the awl is phenomenally useful. It has to be paired with a Classic, as I need scissors, nail file, and toothpick, but the small price of carrying two knives is more than compensated by the not-insignificant increase in utility.
I haven’t committed to making this change permanent, but I’m certainly enjoying the experiment.
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Inline awl is a great tool. Unfortunate that it’s not included as an alternative for the small blade on some 91mm SAKs. I did a mod some months ago and it’s my regular EDC when not doing a challenge. Just difficult finding Pioneer donors as people tend to look after them. :think:
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Plus one for the in line awl. I've modded all but one of my 91mm to include it - so useful. :cheers:
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I’ve been a Compact fan for decades, and I still think it’s the ideal SAK for my everyday real-world requirements.
With that said, I find myself carrying a Pioneer more and more often these days. It’s even thinner than the Compact, and the awl is phenomenally useful. It has to be paired with a Classic, as I need scissors, nail file, and toothpick, but the small price of carrying two knives is more than compensated by the not-insignificant increase in utility.
I haven’t committed to making this change permanent, but I’m certainly enjoying the experiment.
Same here. I carried a Compact for years until I discovered the Pioneer and the Cadet and fell in love with the thinness and metallic lusciousness of Alox. I missed the toothpick and scissors, so now I carry my toothpick separately and I modded a Cadet to include scissors. The Super Cadet experiment led me to think that a Pioneer X would be ideal, but alas they are too heavy for my officey work attire. So it's modded super Cadet during the week and a Pioneer or Farmer on weekends.
And if we're being honest, I carry a Yeoman in my bag o' stuff that I schlep around with me everyday too. :)
Myron
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I’ve been a Compact fan for decades, and I still think it’s the ideal SAK for my everyday real-world requirements.
With that said, I find myself carrying a Pioneer more and more often these days. It’s even thinner than the Compact, and the awl is phenomenally useful. It has to be paired with a Classic, as I need scissors, nail file, and toothpick, but the small price of carrying two knives is more than compensated by the not-insignificant increase in utility.
I haven’t committed to making this change permanent, but I’m certainly enjoying the experiment.
I'd been carrying a Classic on my keys for a while before I removed it for airline travel. Since then I've intermittently carried a classic again, or a Leatherman Micra. If im honest I use it for the scissors, and the Micra is more robust in that regard.
Does that make me a bad person?
I'm planning on getting another classic this week. You guys made me do it!
I've been lurking on this forum for a long time - joined a few days ago. suddenly I think I'm going to have a major problem in the rabbit hole...
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I'd been carrying a Classic on my keys for a while before I removed it for airline travel. Since then I've intermittently carried a classic again, or a Leatherman Micra. If im honest I use it for the scissors, and the Micra is more robust in that regard.
Does that make me a bad person?
I'm planning on getting another classic this week. You guys made me do it!
I've been lurking on this forum for a long time - joined a few days ago. suddenly I think I'm going to have a major problem in the rabbit hole...
If you hadn't redeemed yourself by getting another Classic I'd be saying "Be off to the Leatherman room, scoundrel! :twak:" :D
BTW, welcome to this wonderful place of opinions, sharing, knowledge - and enabling :P!
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I'm curious to know how everyone has evolved in their EDC SAKs over the course of their lives - if and why they changed the models, whether that's because of a new job, hobbies, realizations, or changes in taste.
My first SAK was a Spartan, which I carried and used for probably 8-10 years. Then, I began to wonder if there might be an even better SAK out there for me (and, because I was working full-time, I had the funds to pursue this experiment). This question led me to what was then SOSAK, and I really got into SAKs and MTs. After buying and trying many different models, my EDC SAK situation seems to have stabilized not too far from where it started. These days, a Climber is my most carried SAK, followed by other close relatives such as the Huntsman and Mountaineer. I find that I really do use and appreciate the scissors, still prefer the corkscrew to the backspring Phillips, and strongly prefer the opener layer and small blade over the combo tool. I've been carrying SAKs for over 20 years now, and pretty much any 2-4 layer 91mm SAK feels as comfortable, smooth, and natural as if it were an extension of my hand.
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My first SAK was a Spartan, which I carried and used for probably 8-10 years. Then, I began to wonder if there might be an even better SAK out there for me (and, because I was working full-time, I had the funds to pursue this experiment). This question led me to what was then SOSAK, and I really got into SAKs and MTs. After buying and trying many different models, my EDC SAK situation seems to have stabilized not too far from where it started. These days, a Climber is my most carried SAK, followed by other close relatives such as the Huntsman and Mountaineer. I find that I really do use and appreciate the scissors, still prefer the corkscrew to the backspring Phillips, and strongly prefer the opener layer and small blade over the combo tool. I've been carrying SAKs for over 20 years now, and pretty much any 2-4 layer 91mm SAK feels as comfortable, smooth, and natural as if it were an extension of my hand.
Funny you mention that - I'm a Compact/Soldier/PioneerX kinda guy myself. When I have a small blade (which these days is at only home or in the woods) it's my most used tool.
Along with a new Classic, a Huntsman is on my shopping list. :ahhh
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Funny you mention that - I'm a Compact/Soldier/PioneerX kinda guy myself. When I have a small blade (which these days is at only home or in the woods) it's my most used tool.
Along with a new Classic, a Huntsman is on my shopping list. :ahhh
Yea, I really like having at least two blades. On the 91mm knives, the large blade ends up pulling general duty while the small blade is kept clean and very sharp for tasks like cutting cigars and removing splinters. When I carry a 93mm knife (less often), the awl gets used as a beater blade for opening packages and such, and I try to save the main blade as much as possible.
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Funny you mention that - I'm a Compact/Soldier/PioneerX kinda guy myself. When I have a small blade (which these days is at only home or in the woods) it's my most used tool.
Along with a new Classic, a Huntsman is on my shopping list. :ahhh
Update - The Huntsman has arrived.
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:like: Now we just need some pictures of it! :pok:
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My current pet peeve is not having the possibility of a small blade instead of the awl on a Pioneer. I think it has far more uses with this configuration. An awl isn't used all that much whereas the small blade is pretty much my most used tool currently.
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My current pet peeve is not having the possibility of a small blade instead of the awl on a Pioneer. I think it has far more uses with this configuration. An awl isn't used all that much whereas the small blade is pretty much my most used tool currently.
Pruner blade. Problem solved. ;)
But I do think you're right, even if it's not a pet peeve to me. That is one reason I don't grab the alox models often. And some of the ones I do grab have the pruner blade.
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My current pet peeve is not having the possibility of a small blade instead of the awl on a Pioneer. I think it has far more uses with this configuration. An awl isn't used all that much whereas the small blade is pretty much my most used tool currently.
With a pointy tip and a sharp, chisel-ground edge running essentially its entire length, the 93mm awl actually makes a great small blade, IMO, provided you don't need super-precise cuts. Cutting tape, cutting zip ties, and opening plastic bags/packages are all tasks at which the 93mm awl excels.
When I carry 93mm, I generally think of the awl first for general cutting, and try to keep the knife blade clean and sharp for food, cigars, etc.
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Pruner blade. Problem solved. ;)
But I do think you're right, even if it's not a pet peeve to me. That is one reason I don't grab the alox models often. And some of the ones I do grab have the pruner blade.
The Rancher is very much on my 'to try' list for that precise reason. :) I'm on the look out for an affordable coloured version. :cheers: I love the pruner blade but it's still considerably limited in comparison to the small blade.The electrician is also a contender but I wish they didn't have that huge wire stripper, it's a lot of blade going to waste.
With a pointy tip and a sharp, chisel-ground edge running essentially its entire length, the 93mm awl actually makes a great small blade, IMO, provided you don't need super-precise cuts. Cutting tape, cutting zip ties, and opening plastic bags/packages are all tasks at which the 93mm awl excels.
When I carry 93mm, I generally think of the awl first for general cutting, and try to keep the knife blade clean and sharp for food, cigars, etc.
Fair enough, not for me though. I do use the small blade for precise cutting and stuff that requires being able to cut into material not just slice it open.
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Incidentally I found a red Rancher, you can get them here in two shades of red. Price is very reasonable also, people are selling these on ebay for $88!
https://www.brw.ch/en/assembly-knife-victorinox-457730
Very tempted, I have a brother in law living in Zurich... :whistle:
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Incidentally I found a red Rancher, you can get them here in two shades of red. Price is very reasonable also, people are selling these on ebay for $88!
https://www.brw.ch/en/assembly-knife-victorinox-457730
Very tempted, I have a brother in law living in Zurich... :whistle:
I like that darker shade of red - I could use a Pioneer or Cadet in that color. :dd:
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Pet Peeve - seeing SAKs and ther slip joints displayed for auction online with the tools halfway open and the backspring bent out on both sides. :ahhh :dwts: :sa: :poh:
I was just looking at a single layer SAK and the backspring is peeking out on both ends... more that I normally notice with regular use. Cringe... :facepalm:
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I dread when I get a new SAK because of all the oil that I have to clean off and out of it. Way too much. Also, the alox knives need more palm friendly ring attachments, like the cellidor ones.
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Oh boy!
For one thing; and thesis a very long time gripe of mine; ditch the cellidor scales for a more modern and better material like FRN, Delrin, whatever. ANYTHING but the cellidor. Even the nylon like on the economy line is more durable. Anything that won't crack and break off when it falls of a kitchen counter to a tile floor. Or starts to dissolve if in contact with some mosquito repellents or gun cleaning solvents. There just better material now and just as cheap. The material the Gerber LST uses is great!
Then, bring out a cadet with an awl in place of the nail file. An awl is infinitely more useful and adds a second cutting edge for stripping wire, busting zip ties and such.
And finally, take out the orange peeler on the executive and replace it with a small combo tool. and offer a version of the executive with a full serrated blade.
Oh, while I'm complaining, do something about the keyring mount on the pioneer. No other SAK has a keyring mount that digs into the hand like the pioneer. It just sticks right up there at an abrupt angle unlike all the other SAK's that has it more down and not so poky. Why is the alox SAK's get an obnoxious keyring mount? If in doubt, BRING BACK THE HOLLOW RIVIT!!!!!!!!
84 mm with a top awl would be amazing - not instead of the nail file on the cadet though, a separate model ;0)....in fact an 84mm Farmer or Farmer X even would be my ultimate alox
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More scale tool options in all sizes.
I don’t use the toothpick except to point on a map. I would love to find something to replace it with.
Also pin on classic size tools please
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I don’t use the toothpick except to point on a map. I would love to find something to replace it with.
Have you considered the Firefly?
https://tortoisegear.com/products/
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My only peeve is that there are no inlaid shield/cross on Stayglow or regular nylon scales, andthe screened ones are not as durable. :dunno:
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My only peeve is that I can't have them awl...
:facepalm:
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Have you considered the Firefly?
https://tortoisegear.com/products/
I do carry one in my huntsman. I will be honest i have not used it that much.
Thank you for the suggestion though
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My only peeve is that I can't have them awl...
:facepalm:
But why not? :think:
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I've read through this entire thread. Being a person of great creativity myself, I can find many things to wish were different. However, I'm still pretty new at the SAK thing, though I've been and admirer from afar for quite some time.
1. Replacement scales should be far cheaper and easier to get. (Celidor, I especially mean)
2. Alox and walnut should definitely have scale tools.
3. There could be more kinds of scale tools.
4. I would enjoy seeing wood scales out of additional types of wood. Holly, cherry, rosewood, etc.
5. I do feel there is a lack of understanding in the "what combination of tools makes a good knife" department.
7. I would like to see more serrated blades as a second blade.
8. Ideally, all tools would be lockable. But that would require a total redesign, so stay tuned for the huge suggestion I'll make down below.
9. I would like to see more done with the 74 mm line, including some mini versions of the 91 stuff, including saws.
10. I would like to see a small fork tool (thin and maybe about a cm wide with 3 prongs) for eating, on some models.
All that brings me to this....I'd like them to introduce a whole new line of knives--maybe two sizes, say, 95mm and 80 mm-- that would be a whole new departure. These would not be to detract from the existing models, which are great in their own realm. These would be UTILITARIAN primarily, aimed at being innovative, useful, repairable, and sturdy versus collectible. The existing product lines can be maintained for their collectability (why not, that's part of the charm). The new line would be modular, held together with screws, have all locking tools, and highly modifiable and customizable right out of the gate. I also recommend a 5-pivot design. So the two sides of the knife would each have tool hinges at each end (2+2 =4), and also a center pivot like the one currently used for the corkscrew. Some mod combinations might choose to eliminate the center pivot. Then a whole long catalog of long and short tools could be put into those 5 pivots (all of which would lock, probably using an annular/concentric locking system in each pin, at least for the larger model). These could be bought pre-assembled by custom order at the factory, or you could buy a starter kit plus the mods you wanted. This whole system would work like the many mods available for AR rifles and people could come up with endless customization ideas.
Now if Victorinox doesn't want to be bothered doing this, maybe somebody else would????
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I've read through this entire thread. Being a person of great creativity myself, I can find many things to wish were different. However, I'm still pretty new at the SAK thing, though I've been and admirer from afar for quite some time.
.....
Some good ideas, Jim! If I may respond to some of your points...
1. Absolutely, especially considering how quickly the cellidor scales scuff and even break. Although I suspect Victorinox will rescale them for you if you send it in for very little cost
2. Would be difficult for alox because the scales double as the external liners (so there's no slot in between like there is with the cellidor), and they're very thin. I just carry the toothpick and tweezers in my wallet instead -- much more compact than having thicker scales
3. For sure -- there's so much wasted space in the cellidor scales that some new tools should be made available
8. Could be cool but most tools don't need to be lockable and it would add weight and size... but also, it would make it illegal in many markets that don't permit carrying locking folding knives
9. It's worse than that... they quietly discontinued the whole 74mm line a few months ago. I'd love to have seen it expanded a bit as well
10. Allow me to introduce you to the Cheese Master :hatsoff:
I certainly like your ideas about a new lineup, alas, many of us have such wishes, but Victorinox seems to be extremely conservative with their decisions. I'd be surprised to see a new line anytime soon (kind of expect the 65mm line to be ended, even). Still we have 58mm, 65mm, 84mm, 85mm, 91mm, 93mm, 111mm, and 130mm... of which the 85, 111, and 130 have (or can have) locking main blades.
I've been saying forever how nice it would be to be able to custom-order SAKs with the tools we choose, even if it's a silly combination. They really do have a very wide range of options and for that I'm very thankful. It would just be fun to be able to fill in the gaps or bring back some models that are no longer available.
Part of the reason I don't think they support modding directly is for reputation (kind of like how Apple approaches it). I don't think they want to see too many self-modded SAKs out there that call into question any SAK you come across (ie. it hurts the brand reputation), as well as complicating their good refreshing/repairing services.
Oh, and if only they would bring back the 84mm scissors so we could get a Cadet X.... and a new Golfer (84mm Compact)... or even a Tinker Small X. :dd:
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All that brings me to this....I'd like them to introduce a whole new line of knives--maybe two sizes, say, 95mm and 80 mm-- that would be a whole new departure. These would not be to detract from the existing models, which are great in their own realm. These would be UTILITARIAN primarily, aimed at being innovative, useful, repairable, and sturdy versus collectible. The existing product lines can be maintained for their collectability (why not, that's part of the charm). The new line would be modular, held together with screws, have all locking tools, and highly modifiable and customizable right out of the gate. I also recommend a 5-pivot design. So the two sides of the knife would each have tool hinges at each end (2+2 =4), and also a center pivot like the one currently used for the corkscrew. Some mod combinations might choose to eliminate the center pivot. Then a whole long catalog of long and short tools could be put into those 5 pivots (all of which would lock, probably using an annular/concentric locking system in each pin, at least for the larger model). These could be bought pre-assembled by custom order at the factory, or you could buy a starter kit plus the mods you wanted. This whole system would work like the many mods available for AR rifles and people could come up with endless customization ideas.
Now if Victorinox doesn't want to be bothered doing this, maybe somebody else would????
Very good idea. I believe everyone who is into SAKs arrives at a similar idea at some point in time. Vic obviously knows how to do modular knives, the Rescue Tool's replaceable saw and glass breaker demonstrate this. So they must have their reasons for not doing it, of which Altis might have named a few.
In particular with a view to your concept above, I would like to add that with this blade length and the locking mechanism, the tool would be illegal to carry in many countries, limiting its user base/sales. And it would probably cannibalize the existing 91 mm and 111 mm models - why buy several "I am almost there" SAKs when you can have the one and only right off the bat? So although the idea is great from a user's perspective, from Vic's perspective it must look a lot less attractive, which is probably why they have left this field to small niche companies.
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I've read through this entire thread. Being a person of great creativity myself, I can find many things to wish were different. However, I'm still pretty new at the SAK thing, though I've been and admirer from afar for quite some time.
1. Replacement scales should be far cheaper and easier to get. (Celidor, I especially mean)
2. Alox and walnut should definitely have scale tools.
3. There could be more kinds of scale tools.
4. I would enjoy seeing wood scales out of additional types of wood. Holly, cherry, rosewood, etc.
5. I do feel there is a lack of understanding in the "what combination of tools makes a good knife" department.
7. I would like to see more serrated blades as a second blade.
8. Ideally, all tools would be lockable. But that would require a total redesign, so stay tuned for the huge suggestion I'll make down below.
9. I would like to see more done with the 74 mm line, including some mini versions of the 91 stuff, including saws.
10. I would like to see a small fork tool (thin and maybe about a cm wide with 3 prongs) for eating, on some models.
All that brings me to this....I'd like them to introduce a whole new line of knives--maybe two sizes, say, 95mm and 80 mm-- that would be a whole new departure. These would not be to detract from the existing models, which are great in their own realm. These would be UTILITARIAN primarily, aimed at being innovative, useful, repairable, and sturdy versus collectible. The existing product lines can be maintained for their collectability (why not, that's part of the charm). The new line would be modular, held together with screws, have all locking tools, and highly modifiable and customizable right out of the gate. I also recommend a 5-pivot design. So the two sides of the knife would each have tool hinges at each end (2+2 =4), and also a center pivot like the one currently used for the corkscrew. Some mod combinations might choose to eliminate the center pivot. Then a whole long catalog of long and short tools could be put into those 5 pivots (all of which would lock, probably using an annular/concentric locking system in each pin, at least for the larger model). These could be bought pre-assembled by custom order at the factory, or you could buy a starter kit plus the mods you wanted. This whole system would work like the many mods available for AR rifles and people could come up with endless customization ideas.
Now if Victorinox doesn't want to be bothered doing this, maybe somebody else would????
I agree with some of your points, but the "lockable" part on pocket sized knives i fully disagree...
What is it with people and locking blades on pocket sized knives...? Who can actually need a 6 to 8 cm sized utility slip joint blade to lock...?
A big part of why SAK's up to 91mm are not considered illegal to carry in a lot of countries (at least without a darn good valid reason to) is because they are slip joints (AKA: dosen't lock...). Puting locks on those knives/tools would be an almost guaranteed "illegalization" to carry on most countries.....
I think the locks on the 85mm delemonts are stupid enough...
There is only one thing that makes me cringe even more than the suggestion of putting locks on pocket sized SAK's, it's the suggestion of enbeded pocket clips... :rant:
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But why not? :think:
£ack $ome tim€...
:facepalm:
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I agree with some of your points, but the "lockable" part on pocket sized knives i fully disagree...
What is it with people and locking blades on pocket sized knives...? Who can actually need a 6 to 8 cm sized utility slip joint blade to lock...?
A big part of why SAK's up to 91mm are not considered illegal to carry in a lot of countries (at least without a darn good valid reason to) is because they are slip joints (AKA: dosen't lock...). Puting locks on those knives/tools would be an almost guaranteed "illegalization" to carry on most countries.....
I think the locks on the 85mm delemonts are stupid enough...
There is only one thing that makes me cringe even more than the suggestion of putting locks on pocket sized SAK's, it's the suggestion of enbeded pocket clips... :rant:
Have to agree with you about the locks. I know there is a huge market for lock knives but if you can’t carry it then it limits the utility
I would love a wine master however that much money on a knife I cannot carry without good reason in the uk is not an investment I can afford.
In a lot of cases a slip joint is more then secure enough. Felix Immler uses one a lot of the time.
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I would love to see more scale tool options though
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Have to agree with you about the locks. I know there is a huge market for lock knives but if you can’t carry it then it limits the utility
I would love a wine master however that much money on a knife I cannot carry without good reason in the uk is not an investment I can afford.
In a lot of cases a slip joint is more then secure enough. Felix Immler uses one a lot of the time.
Yes, I understand the issue of locks being illegal in some countries. For these knives to be sold there, they would have to have optional non-locking pieces.
I am a fan of locks on all tools, because it makes them easier to use. I hate it when my reamer pivots on me when I'm trying to use it, for instance. I like something to be sturdy and rigid while I'm using it, because remembering to keep something from closing up on me is one more thing to have to think about, when I'd really rather be thinking about the work I'm doing with the knife or tool. Think about it--you grab a Phillips screwdriver, and it's all one piece. It doesn't fold up on you while you try to use it. Neither does your hammer, or your hacksaw. Knife blades and tools shouldn't either.
But that's why we have personal preferences.
I buy a lot of airport and casino confiscated knives, and there are many tiny lockblades among them, some that probably didn't cost more than $2-3 new. I resell them for $1 if I can. We have lockblades of all sizes all day long in the USA, I just wish my SAK's had them on all tools.
What I'm basically wishing for is for another company to make them, same or greater quality, and with the lockable tools and mod-friendly construction.
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I used to like the lock on my Trailmaster. Then I got tired of the hassle of closing it (minor as it is) and went back to carrying an alox Soldier instead. The alox knives have strong backsprings and I don't miss the lock at all. The Soldier is also an easier pocket carry.
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Mine is the corporate obsession with an opener layer in models that have other tools.
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Mine is the corporate obsession with an opener layer in models that have other tools.
Yes, wouldn't it be nice to be able to simply do without such things, if one didn't want such things?
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Yes, I understand the issue of locks being illegal in some countries. For these knives to be sold there, they would have to have optional non-locking pieces.
I am a fan of locks on all tools, because it makes them easier to use. I hate it when my reamer pivots on me when I'm trying to use it, for instance. I like something to be sturdy and rigid while I'm using it, because remembering to keep something from closing up on me is one more thing to have to think about, when I'd really rather be thinking about the work I'm doing with the knife or tool. Think about it--you grab a Phillips screwdriver, and it's all one piece. It doesn't fold up on you while you try to use it. Neither does your hammer, or your hacksaw. Knife blades and tools shouldn't either.
I've said it before, IMO it's down to what each one believes a 84/91mm SAK should be or shouldn't be used for...
Yes those tools doesn't fold up on you when you use them, that's because they are specific (dedicated) tools for doing a proper specific task, not a 91mm pocket knife with tool implements that are meant to help you in a pinch when you have no dedicated tools available, and it's something you carry easily in your pocket. I wouldn't use a SAK tool in the exact same fashion (or demand) as a dedicated tool.
I still believe that if you "need" locks on 91mm sak's, you are probably doing something you shouldn't be doing with it, and a bigger/sturdier locking knife/tool would be more adequate....
But again, this is only MY opinion... everybody else has their own equally valid opinions :cheers:
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Yeah, I think I'm moving away from wishing SAK's had locks, and toward wishing there were a competitor that made small lockable multi-tool knives with the features I'm looking for. :-[
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Yeah, I think I'm moving away from wishing SAK's had locks, and toward wishing there were a competitor that made small lockable multi-tool knives with the features I'm looking for. :-[
:pok: Join us over here....
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,84310.0.html
Have you looked at Swiza knives?
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:pok: Join us over here....
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,84310.0.html
Have you looked at Swiza knives?
A little bit...never seen one in person. :D
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My main pet peeve is the disappearance of the Wenger can opener. Everything else is a wish list, rather than a list of pet peeves, but I do agree on the notion of being able to buy individual tools for modding purposes.
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:facepalm: Gah! my pet peeve is our incessant desire for Victorinox to make it easier for us to mod their product. :rant: But I am of the opinion the Perfect is the enemy of Good. :dunno:
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:facepalm: Gah! my pet peeve is our incessant desire for Victorinox to make it easier for us to mod their product. :rant: But I am of the opinion the Perfect is the enemy of Good. :dunno:
I guess I want an easily modable knife system that is not Victorinox, then, and doesn't presuppose a pliers-based interface.
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I guess I want an easily modable knife system that is not Victorinox, then, and doesn't presuppose a pliers-based interface.
In that case, I'm right there with you :cheers:
There have been a few, but none really took off Switch, Keysmart. Reamerpunch seems to find these things before the rest of us.
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Corkscrews. I know it is one of the oldest tools on these knives, but I find it to bee the most useless.
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And why doesn't Vic sell scales normally? I'd like to be able to find them more easily.
:iagree:
I totally agree, the ones that are available via eBay are almost the price of a new SAK.
But then...that could be the 'plan' as I ended up purchasing several Spartans and Climbers just so I could have different scale colors and designs.
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:iagree:
I totally agree, the ones that are available via eBay are almost the price of a new SAK.
But then...that could be the 'plan' as I ended up purchasing several Spartans and Climbers just so I could have different scale colors and designs.
:iagree:
scale designs seem to be what they want to capitalize on. I just saw their 2021 Patterns of the World Classic collection. It looks like their intention is for people to get lots of Classics, with different patters.... their yearly Huntsman iterations.... etc etc
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:iagree:
scale designs seem to be what they want to capitalize on. I just saw their 2021 Patterns of the World Classic collection. It looks like their intention is for people to get lots of Classics, with different patters.... their yearly Huntsman iterations.... etc etc
Agreed, its a bit overwhelming and Im debating where to focus my attention as Im becoming partial to Climbers, Huntsman and Alox. All the worst ones on the wallet.
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Agreed, its a bit overwhelming and Im debating where to focus my attention as Im becoming partial to Climbers, Huntsman and Alox. All the worst ones on the wallet.
Forgot damascus and LE...
:pok: :pok:
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Agreed, its a bit overwhelming and Im debating where to focus my attention as Im becoming partial to Climbers, Huntsman and Alox. All the worst ones on the wallet.
Alox might be the end of you. I don't collect, and I am looking at 3 alox SAKs at the moment... because apparently they like to sit at the desk and watch me work.
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Alox might be the end of you. I don't collect, and I am looking at 3 alox SAKs at the moment... because apparently they like to sit at the desk and watch me work.
Must be genetic. My Farmer X is doing the exact same thing...
:facepalm:
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Corkscrews. I know it is one of the oldest tools on these knives, but I find it to bee the most useless.
:cry:
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:cry:
I'm sure he didn't mean you no harm.
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I think for many of us eyeglass wearers the primary utility of the corkscrew is its ability to house the mini screwdriver. While rarely used, it's literally a lifesaver if you need it. I'd love to see Victorinox integrate the mini screwdriver into the scales, so we could then replace the corkscrew for the phillips. Total win.
Corkscrews. I know it is one of the oldest tools on these knives, but I find it to bee the most useless.
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I think for many of us eyeglass wearers the primary utility of the corkscrew is its ability to house the mini screwdriver. While rarely used, it's literally a lifesaver if you need it. I'd love to see Victorinox integrate the mini screwdriver into the scales, so we could then replace the corkscrew for the phillips. Total win.
Helvetica Bold made an SD for the toothpick slot: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,85532.msg2161230.html#msg2161230
MacGyver made one that stashed under the hook: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,85289.msg2186826.html#msg2186826
I made one out of the tweezers: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,85533.msg2161246.html#msg2161246
I haven't tried the other two, but the tweezer one works great.
I prefer the corkscrew anyway, but if you're using a Deluxe Tinker or whatever, you do what you've gotta do.
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Jothra, I like the idea of altering the tweezers, that's great! What did you use to shave the tweezer arm into the screwdriver? Metal file?
Helvetica Bold made an SD for the toothpick slot: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,85532.msg2161230.html#msg2161230
MacGyver made one that stashed under the hook: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,85289.msg2186826.html#msg2186826
I made one out of the tweezers: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,85533.msg2161246.html#msg2161246
I haven't tried the other two, but the tweezer one works great.
I prefer the corkscrew anyway, but if you're using a Deluxe Tinker or whatever, you do what you've gotta do.
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Jothra, I like the idea of altering the tweezers, that's great! What did you use to shave the tweezer arm into the screwdriver? Metal file?
Yes. They're reasonably soft, so the filing goes pretty quickly. I can confirm from extended testing that the final product holds up.
I made the tweezer SD for my Deluxe Tinker, and if I've got the Victorinox pliers, I don't need separate tweezers anyway.
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Excellent, thanks for the quick response. It's great that the tweezers are inexpensive and easy to replace if I don't get it right the first time.
Yes. They're reasonably soft, so the filing goes pretty quickly. I can confirm from extended testing that the final product holds up.
I made the tweezer SD for my Deluxe Tinker, and if I've got the Victorinox pliers, I don't need separate tweezers anyway.
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Excellent, thanks for the quick response. It's great that the tweezers are inexpensive and easy to replace if I don't get it right the first time.
Agreed. It's one of the most low-risk mods there is. If you do it, share your results. It's fun to see people's ingenuity on display!
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K ---- a bit of a rant.
If you're going to be "expert" enough to do a review on a SAK and publish it elsewhere online (not MTo)... and you happen to know you dislike the keyring nub on your Alox... Don't go talking about how you are going to grind off the keyring nub until you've carried the SAK around for a while and have yet to decide if you're going to want a suspension clip :mn: :rant:
Like literally not yet carried the knife, but you "know" that you like to carry your SAK loose in the bottom of your pocket.... so when you get a new Alox model that we all know is prone to swing into your nether regions if you're not careful. But, you want to mod the knife already.... :facepalm:
My momma always says - don't add salt to your food until you've tasted it first.