Multitool.org Forum
Tool Talk => Leatherman Tools => Topic started by: Lichtbote on August 11, 2014, 12:56:56 PM
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After toying around some time with my 2 newest toys, i thought i might write my observations down - maybe someone might find them usefull in the future. :think:
Both tools were new/nearly unused, so both needed some breakin on all their joints/pivots. Cleaned them first, then after the some hours i gave them another cleaning to get rid of the black stuff they were oozing out, then re-oiling and so on and so on.
For the pure flik - the leatherman OHT wins with waving banners. It fliks out that smooth .... the 600 moves rougher and so it sounds, also.
Same goes for putting the pliers back in - OHT way smoother than the MP (wich often needs to be pushed in by hand instead of slipping in by gravity), but the OHT has the habit to stuck on the 2 release pins sometimes, then it needs some wiggeling before it slides back in.
The pliers - both are good working, both have exchangeable wire cutters, the OHT has more pointy tips for tigher plaches. The 600 needed a massive breakin until it´s 2 griphalves were completely free working, the springloaded OHT did that right from the start.
Tools - the 600 suffers from it´s construction with the tools being inside, not only for opening, but also for having the unfolded tools on the "wrong" side for use.
Knife - both have small plain blades, wich i would prefer to be bigger. The OHT has additional a serrated blade (a plus for me, as i don´t see much use for the file the 600 has instead).
Screwdrivers - both have a set of 3 flat and 1 philips. The phillips on the 600 is a real 3D, but very stubby. The OHT one is a LM flat one, but much longer for tigher spaces. The flats are more or less the same size and length, the medium on the 600 carries also the bottle opener, on the LM it´s on the end of the beltcutter.
Saw - replaceable Remgrit on 600, only a woodsaw on the OHT - both on the short side of life.
Both tools have can openers.
After the win in flikin, the OHT also wins in tools for me. Both are no "many tools monsters", but the additional beltcutter and the additional serrated blade win over the possible more versatile Remgrit saw. And there is the oho and the springloaded use.
I know the US military uses Gerbers. Less filigran than the OHT for sure it cleans more easily, so i assume it is better for the average soldier. But it also rattles much more, which i would hate if in a position when the enemy shouldn´t know where i am. Being no longer in service now, for private use it´s just a little bit annoying.
In a direct comparision i would choose the OHT without any hesitation, but the 600 is no bad tool, either. Both are capable to do their jobs. I don´t regret to have bought the Gerber, it´s just not as nice as the OHT.
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Thanks for taking the time to share. :cheers:
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Great review. Could you maybe add some comparison photos?
PS: The Gerber posse will be hounding you. :P
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Be my guest. :salute:
I thought it was to much OT in the other thread, so i did this seperate writeup.
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Great review. Could you maybe add some comparison photos?
PS: The Gerber posse will be hounding you. :P
Hmm, the tools in general are known, i assume - any special things you would like to see?
I´m afraid they will. :D
But there is no reason to, for me it´s not as good as the newer style oho LMs, but better than the old style LMs with tools inside. (And now both fractions will chase me :rofl:).
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Great write up, Michael. I have both OHT and the MP600 and share pretty much the same sentiment as you. Also my MP600 is the US Army issue (no Remgrit replaceable blade option).
IMO, MP600 has nothing on LM OHT, or very little. OHT is so much nicer tool, smoother, more solidly built, less rattly not to mention its OHO advantage over fiddly MP600 implements.
How are your plier release buttons...? Have yours lost the black BO coating yet?
Cheers.
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Thanks for adding your opinion, babola. :tu:
If anyone else has compared theses 2 tools .... feel free to post your thoughts, too - especially when and why your thoughts are different on one or more points.
Regarding the release buttons - their roughened top surface was already shiny after a few hours. :D Interestingly the other parts BO seems to be sturdier - no wear anywhere, not even on the sliding areas where metal goes over metal. At least not yet, after the first some hundreds of fliks and slides.
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@ Lichtbote: Interesting views, thanks for sharing them :)
Personally I find both tools a little to big for me as I pocket carry rather than sheath or bag carry. I also don't tend to flick "flicky" pliers, I just press the buttons and let the handles slide down (dependent on the tool a slight shake might be needed).
After getting to play with an OHT this weekend (kirky's), I'd agree the OHT is certainly well made. The pliers are not small, despite the illusion sometimes apparent in pics, and the knife blade is of a usable size. The screwdrivers appear to be fine, and though I didn't try them on anything, I wouldn't expect any problems.
I simply wouldn't want one though.
There's no reason for me to want a strap cutter or O2 wrench, and the driver tip on that tool will be useless for anything that isn't surface mounted. For me (in my personal tool use) that entire tool is pointless, as is the stubby little saw. I'm not saying the overall tool is bad because of these, because there are people for whom the toolset works, but it leans towards a limited audience - though nowhere near as limited as the MUT which I also got a look at this weekend (Cupboard's) - there was hardly anything on that tool which appealed to me as a user.
The MP600 on the other hand, has a wider target audience. Scissors, file, saw, choice of plier tips, Remgrit saw ... much more diversity and ability to choose a version that suits your needs. Size of tool aside, I would say I'd much rather choose a MP600 than a OHT purely because I can get one with the right tools for me.
Having perfectly adequate tools that suit your needs but are stowed inboard and deploy on the "wrong" side, is still better than having well made outboard tools that you don't need. If the OHT was more civilian oriented, and had tools I'd actually want (and in a sensible size for the tool function), it might be a different story. However, the fact remains that the MP600 casts a wider net for potential users than the OHT, and I only fall into the catchment of one of them.
In summary:
OHT: Great tool for a few people
MP600: Great tool for a lot more people
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A similar (but different) comparison could be made between Leatherman's One Hand Tool, and the one handed tool that Gerber had already made ... the Grappler. It mainly comes down to which toolset best serves the user.
Medium duty locking pliers vs heavy duty non-locking sprung pliers with indexable cutters
Softish file (for non-ferrous metals and plastics) vs short stubby wood saw
Pry tool with nail notch and ruler vs strap cutter with O2 wrench
Small plain edge and serrated knives vs larger combo edged blade
2 drivers, wire stripper and bottle opener vs 4 drivers and combo can/bottle opener
(Phillips drivers on both tools are not quite 3D)
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Thanks for your input, 50ft-trad.
without flicking the pliers the 600 looses even more ground for me, cause i can operate the OHT that way you described alone by gravity, but the 600 needs a little amount of shake each time.
I think your conclusion is a little bit unfair biased in some points. It seems you mix the whole range of MP 600 together Scissors, file, saw, choice of plier tips, Remgrit saw ... much more diversity and ability to choose a version that suits your needs.
and compare them to the OHT - but none of them alone has the good useable toolload. I compared these 2 cause my 600 is toolloadwise already one of the better versions (for me), and the tollload of the 2 is really close to each other (but still different in details, off course). I wouldn´t have compared them if the toolload would have been completely different. The only real difference in tools is the file against the serrated blade. Other than that the difference is more in useabilty than in toolload.
If this Having perfectly adequate tools that suit your needs but are stowed inboard and deploy on the "wrong" side, is still better than having well made outboard tools that you don't need.
would be related for me to one tool, then it would be related to the other, too - due to the identical tools. ;) then the option between these tools is "one with useless tools but easy accessible" against "one with useless tools but bad accessible".
Please find enclosed a pic of my 600, it´s tools are not so different to my OHT (thank god no scissors on both :D).
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Great write up, thanks for posting it up!! With all the variations of the MP600, this is a kind of hard comparisson to do.
My MP600 will gravity drop with no problems at all, but it's the only MP600 I have handled, so not sure if others are as easy as mine.
I see these tools as pliers first, and the rest of the tool load second. If pliers were my most needed part, I would probably only carry my blunt nose MP600, but I do use some of the other bits, so it doesn't get carried all that often.
I really want to get an OHT so I can do a comparison myself. Just from pics, I think I'd prefer the Gerber, but it's hard to say.
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Thanks, yeah - i wouldn´t have tried it if my 2 didn´t have toolloads so close to each other.
I only have this one OHT and this one 600, and we can read on problems with QC from both companies sometimes - so it´s possible that others out there are not exactly the same, both models.
As i tried to show in my first post above, both tools are capable to do the same jobs - it´s just that between these 2 that i have, the OHT does everything smoother, more refined. But that doesn´t mean that i have to use the 600 with both hands do move in/out the pliers, they just need a little tap to start moving.
Under the line, no matter i like the OHT a little bit more, both of them would need (and maybe get some day) the same mods to fit my wishes better - on both i would like to replace a tool to get as big as possible serrated blades, on the OHT it´s the small serrated blade and on the 600 the file. On both i don´t really need all the flat screwdrivers and the can openers - if i find a better idea these might go for something else one day, too.
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Thanks for your input, 50ft-trad.
without flicking the pliers the 600 looses even more ground for me, cause i can operate the OHT that way you described alone by gravity, but the 600 needs a little amount of shake each time.
I think your conclusion is a little bit unfair biased in some points. It seems you mix the whole range of MP 600 together Scissors, file, saw, choice of plier tips, Remgrit saw ... much more diversity and ability to choose a version that suits your needs.
and compare them to the OHT - but none of them alone has the good useable toolload. I compared these 2 cause my 600 is toolloadwise already one of the better versions (for me), and the tollload of the 2 is really close to each other (but still different in details, off course). I wouldn´t have compared them if the toolload would have been completely different. The only real difference in tools is the file against the serrated blade. Other than that the difference is more in useabilty than in toolload.
If this Having perfectly adequate tools that suit your needs but are stowed inboard and deploy on the "wrong" side, is still better than having well made outboard tools that you don't need.
would be related for me to one tool, then it would be related to the other, too - due to the identical tools. ;) then the option between these tools is "one with useless tools but easy accessible" against "one with useless tools but bad accessible".
Please find enclosed a pic of my 600, it´s tools are not so different to my OHT (thank god no scissors on both :D).
Yes, I was indeed comparing the OHT to the range of MP600s, and whilst none may have the perfect loadout there is at least a range to choose from in order to pick the most suitable for you. That wasn't meant to take anything away from your points, just to say that I could probably find a MP600 that I'm happy with rather than take an OHT that does different things to what I need. If the OHT and MP600 you have, both do what you need, then that's great :tu: Personally I think they are both good quality tools which will serve their users well if the tool set fits :cheers:
If I had to make a choice on just one large framed flicky plier tool though, it would probably be the Diesel :D Woodsaw, combo blade (I have found myself beneffiting from serrations lately), file and good scissors. I don't cut a lot of wire, certainly not hard wire, so don't need replacable cutters, and I don't need to tackle recessed screws often either. I'll prob use scissors more often than saw, file and screwdrivers combined
I think the MP600's lack of a woodsaw has always been a bit of a failing with the line, though I believe there are woodsaw blades that will fit the blade exchanger. One could argue this makes the MP600 stronger in terms of versatility and tool life as you can swap out the blades. Drivers - the LM has a good range and better reach, whereas the Gerber's can be a little stubby for some jobs. Pliers, the Gerber isn't sprung and may be a little rattly, but is strong and reliable with choice of needlenosed or blunt. I'd agree the OHT has more finesse than the MP600, but that in itself doesn't make the MP600 less capable .... it still comes down to user needs though. File or stubby woodsaw, short 3D or long 2.5D Phillips, sprung or unsprung pliers etc etc.
Your points are all valid though, because they're all based on your needs, and you know those better than anyone else. So if the OHT is the better tool for you - then good call :tu:
Thanks again for your views, and I hope the OHT serves you well :salute: :D
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How do the PLIERS compare? How far do they open, how large a bolt can the center section grip, etc. The tools are nice, but 90% of my Gerber use is for the pliers. The tools being an afterthought inside the handle isn't a huge big deal for me, because the pliers are what I need the most. That said, if the tools were on the outside, that would indeed be better. But it looks like the OHT has MP400-sized jaws,and are light duty. Is this the case?
Charles.
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Also another thing to consider is you can get really long saw blades for the Gerber. They don't fit folded up, but you can keep them in your sheath and attach them when needed, for quite long blades.
Charles.