Post by: gerleatherberman on July 01, 2017, 03:38:08 AM
Tonight I got home from work and there it was, a package from the Longhorn state! I got comfortable and got out my swiss champ to open the envelope. The swisstool was shy at first, inside of the original belt pouch that, for being worn for a long time, looked very good. A high quality nylon for sure!
I took a sip of espresso and gingerly opened the pouch. What I pulled out was a nearly 20yo excellent condition Victorinox SwissTool. I carefully opened each tool to feel the precision that I had noted by looking at the extraordinary tight clearances. I understand now. I understand why a swisstool is THE tool other companies SHOULD be trying to compete with. The tools, all polished, open smooth and lock up perfectly. No clumps, no mess, and a well thought out nail nick system. Each tool has a distinguishable set of and/or function. A precision piece of gorgeous hardware! The pliers are also finely ground on each side with a beautiful polish and fine teeth. There is no play at all, even after 19 years! I thought the red logo on the side would not be all that attractive, but it looks a lot cooler in person!
It is a fantastic piece of Swiss engineering and has convinced me that Victorinox makes the best MTs there are. It isn't the biggest, most tools, or best looking. BUT, it IS the highest quality fit and finish I have ever seen on a plier based MT.
Thank you again, Douglas! Resistance was futile. :assimilate:
I carry the SwissArmyKnight badge with pride! What a fine example of swiss perfection. Just like the 25J automatic swiss movement in the watch I pictured it with.
And I was careful, Douglas! Those knives are sharp! Swiss steel. :woohoo:
Post by: gerleatherberman on July 01, 2017, 03:39:06 AM
Post by: Poncho65 on July 01, 2017, 03:42:27 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on July 01, 2017, 05:02:09 AM
That is awesome :tu: Glad it made it there and that you are now going to get to use it and WTG Douglas :cheers: :cheers: :like:TY poncho!
It is going to work with me tomorrow. The chisel is a tool I have not seen on a MT and I think would come in handy doing furniture repairs !
Post by: Douglas on July 01, 2017, 05:28:30 AM
Love the photos and Old Dog approval is the best kind. If you think the chisel on that one is nice you need to get hold of the Spirit. It's chisel is absolutely awesome. The only way it would be better is if it were in the Swisstool. The Spirit is also a top notch tool, far better than any competitors, and more carry friendly, but I still prefer the original. Its just SO solid. Hope it meets and exceeds your expections and takes you on some great new adventures. Congratulations My Friend.That is awesome :tu: Glad it made it there and that you are now going to get to use it and WTG Douglas :cheers: :cheers: :like:TY poncho!
It is going to work with me tomorrow. The chisel is a tool I have not seen on a MT and I think would come in handy doing furniture repairs !
Post by: G-Dizzle on July 01, 2017, 05:50:59 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on July 01, 2017, 05:53:51 AM
Thank you my friend!Love the photos and Old Dog approval is the best kind. If you think the chisel on that one is nice you need to get hold of the Spirit. It's chisel is absolutely awesome. The only way it would be better is if it were in the Swisstool. The Spirit is also a top notch tool, far better than any competitors, and more carry friendly, but I still prefer the original. Its just SO solid. Hope it meets and exceeds your expections and takes you on some great new adventures. Congratulations My Friend.That is awesome :tu: Glad it made it there and that you are now going to get to use it and WTG Douglas :cheers: :cheers: :like:TY poncho!
It is going to work with me tomorrow. The chisel is a tool I have not seen on a MT and I think would come in handy doing furniture repairs !
I knew it would be good, but I didn't imagine just how solid, like you said, it would be. I am used to MTs having at least one thing that had corners cut on it. The swisstool has nothing that seems cheap to me. I am going to start putting a few bucks back each week and save for a spirit as well!
Douglas, as a spirit owner, do you recommend the extra tool kit, or does that just take away from the streamline on the belt? I know not getting the kit saves weight and money though. :D
I noticed how the swisstool you sent does not protrude much at all. Less than the LM Rebar leather sheath by 1/8th of an inch! Pretty awesome. :multi:
Post by: gerleatherberman on July 01, 2017, 05:59:54 AM
Glad to see you got to experience a Swiss tool!! Until I handled one, I didn't know what all the fuss was about, but now I know the precision of each tool outshines all other MTs and in the spirit at least they get by far the absolute most utility per ounce without compromising things like screwdriver integrityThank ya!
It is almost hard to imagine a company making something so precise and making any money doing it. The other big companies cut so many corners. Like you said, the screw drivers usually suffer. The finish suffers too. My satin finish tools rust 10x worse than my few polished tools.
Time to start saving for more Victorinox stuff! :climber:
Post by: Douglas on July 01, 2017, 06:29:38 AM
Gdoolittle Nailed it with that one. Yes G-MAN I do recomend the ratchet set, not the break over bar. I have not gone a day in 10 to 15 years without mine near by if not on my side. I carry it with my Swisstool X every day at work and use the ratchet set almost as much as the MT. The two most used tools I have. As an equipment and refrigeration tech I have a lot of tools. I have made one mod for it - not to it. I picked up an ordinary magnetic bit holder, put in my drill cut off the extra length and groved it to fit the ratchet, trimed the top of the red plastic bit case for it to fit. Oh ya, there is one other mod. I don't carry the cork screw but still wanted to have the eyeglass screw drvier that just happens to fit in the ratchet handle as a screw driver handle. So I drilled a 1/16th diameter hole just deep enough into the ratchet handle to be able to turn the eyeglass driver over and store it in the ratchet.
Wonder if those would qulify for a merit badge if I started a thread on them, after all they are MT mod's right. The ratchet set is a MT isn't it?
Post by: Douglas on July 01, 2017, 06:35:43 AM
Post by: Aloha on July 01, 2017, 07:41:24 AM
Glad to see the tool arrived safely. Victorinox really did an outstanding job on the Swisstool. I can tell you the tool is no shelf queen and is as tough as they come. I cannot wait to hear more about your usage and further thoughts.
Douglas :salute: you sir deserve :2tu:
Post by: Douglas on July 01, 2017, 08:13:02 AM
I caried a Victorinox or Wanger growing up and got a Leatherman Wave in my 20's. Fell in love with the idea of plier based tools and the "pocket knife" became a thing of the past. I was quickly dissapointed as the Wave just could not hold up to what I demanded of it.
Then in '98 I stumbled into the Swisstool at Sam's Club (of all places) and fell head over heals in love. :dd: I have expected more of that tool than any tool should ever endure and it has always pulled through with flying colors.. All that to say, I do my best to make conversions :assimilate: when ever given the opportunity.
Now I am coming back full circle as I learn of all the things I never knew existed (Alox, etc...) but MUST have. I belive there is a thread about bad influances on here some where that I may have to join.
Again THANKS every one.
The info, stories and humor you all post are worth every bit as much to me as the tools we all love so much.
G-Man keep the tails wagg'n, uhmm :whistle: Stories coming about your new adventures.
Post by: Mechanickal on July 01, 2017, 12:57:01 PM
Got my own Swisstool X dirt cheap second hand about 4 years ago as it was covered in epoxy.
Managed to polish it all off and it's looking great now.
Also got a Spirit in the meantime and it's better then one can imagine.
Enjoy your new tool, it'll last you a lifetime! :tu:
Post by: AimlessWanderer on July 01, 2017, 01:43:19 PM
The Swisstool was the first "proper" multitool I ever bought, and people wonder why I give Leatherman a hard time :D I have now sold it, and progressed to the Spirit X for my Swiss plier contribution. Nothing against the Swisstool, but the Spirit suits me better :salute:
Post by: gerleatherberman on July 03, 2017, 10:11:30 PM
I've been sick a couple of days, but will be enjoying using the swisstool asap!
I know what I need to start saving for now. :multi:
Post by: Douglas on July 06, 2017, 04:01:45 AM
Thank you all for the information and comments!
I've been sick a couple of days, but will be enjoying using the swisstool asap!
I know what I need to start saving for now. :multi:
G-MAN,
Do you have any ADVEVTURE photos yet?
Hope your enjoying the new TOY :oops: tool.
Post by: gerleatherberman on July 06, 2017, 04:37:35 AM
I won a spirit on a auction site, but it says July 13th as the delivery date. :-\
Post by: Barry Rowland on July 06, 2017, 06:36:43 AM
Post by: Douglas on July 06, 2017, 07:02:35 AM
:like: :like: old dog!!!
Let him carry it for a while and he'll realize he has become a walking tool room.
Many times " like she said" it's just easier to whip it out. :facepalm:
Post by: gerleatherberman on July 06, 2017, 01:15:06 PM
"Yo gurlll, wanna see my swiss steel?"
Seriously though, the swiss need to invent a power drill MT. If anyone could do it, it would be them. :waving:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 16, 2019, 08:37:54 AM
Later today I am expecting one of the latest versions of a SwissTool X. One with the cutters reversed, SS precision cut file and fatter pliers heads. I am quite excited about it and still thank Douglas for his original gift of the OG SwissTool(1998 version), that added Vic as a brand I keep in the ever-growing MT collection. I have since bought an OG SwissTool RS as well. Both are fantastic tools. I have also acquired two Spirits and like them a lot, but just find the bigger SwissTool to be my favorite of the two models. Likely, because I prefer thicker tools for gripping comfort.
Since I made this thread, my opinions have changed, some better and some worse. However, I still like Vic's pliers-based MTs quite a lot(some assume my criticisms of the SwissTools to be born oit of fandom for other brands, but that isn't realy the case). Not my absolute favorite, but the SwissTool is in the top five of my favorites. I have my little subjective issues, so may be this thread could be proof that I have never been a SwissTool denier, and generally have the highest feelings about tools I haven't used yet. Since using both the SwissTool and Spirit, my views have altered and it has made it easier for me to objectively look at the tools themselves.
:cheers:
Here's hoping the modern SwissTool X is a winner.
My old pug passed last year, but we'll see if our new fur baby approves of another SwissTool. :)
Post by: comis on May 16, 2019, 08:48:43 AM
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I felt it is relevant for what is coming. :)
Later today I am expecting one of the latest versions of a SwissTool X. One with the cutters reversed, SS precision cut file and fatter pliers heads. I am quite excited about it and still thank Douglas for his original gift of the OG SwissTool(1998 version), that added Vic as a brand I keep in the ever-growing MT collection. I have since bought an OG SwissTool RS as well. Both are fantastic tools. I have also acquired two Spirits and like them a lot, but just find the bigger SwissTool to be my favorite of the two models. Likely, because I prefer thicker tools for gripping comfort.
Since I made this thread, my opinions have changed, some better and some worse. However, I still like Vic's pliers-based MTs quite a lot(some assume my criticisms of the SwissTools to be born oit of fandom for other brands, but that isn't realy the case). Not my absolute favorite, but the SwissTool is in the top five of my favorites. I have my little subjective issues, so may be this thread could be proof that I have never been a SwissTool denier, and generally have the highest feelings about tools I haven't used yet. Since using both the SwissTool and Spirit, my views have altered and it has made it easier for me to objectively look at the tools themselves.
:cheers:
Here's hoping the modern SwissTool X is a winner.
My old pug passed last year, but we'll see if our new fur baby approves of another SwissTool. :)
Sorry to hear about your pug, but looking forward to your review. You mentioned the swisstool is no longer the most favorite, but amongst the top 5.
Just curious what will be your most favorite now? And what's in it that suits you better than the swisstool/spirit? :pok: :)
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 16, 2019, 02:13:16 PM
Thank you very much, comis! :cheers:
Sorry to hear about your pug, but looking forward to your review. You mentioned the swisstool is no longer the most favorite, but amongst the top 5.
Just curious what will be your most favorite now? And what's in it that suits you better than the swisstool/spirit? :pok: :)
Honestly I am not to sure about the order of the top 5 favorites at the moment, but will give it some thought for sure! :salute:
Perhaps we can start a top-5 thread at some point. :)
Post by: Aloha on May 16, 2019, 02:34:04 PM
Post by: Huntsman on May 16, 2019, 02:49:30 PM
Nice work Douglas, and congrats GLBM. Will we be seeing Swiss or Victorinox incorporated in your username anytime soon? :D
Gerleathervicbermanox ???
Keen to hear your dislikes/gripes on the ST now!!
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 16, 2019, 02:53:44 PM
Your top 5 will be interesting.Thanks, Aloha! :cheers:
Gerleathervicbermanox ???:rofl:
Nice one, Huntsman!
Quote from: Huntsman
Keen to hear your dislikes/gripes on the ST now!!Thanks, Huntsman! :cheers:
Should be fun. :)
Post by: Aloha on May 16, 2019, 03:04:59 PM
I'm not sure what changed from me carrying my Swisstool on weekend work. I'll have to think on that. I have been carrying my Spirit more than ever. I like so much about this tool. I've made some modifications to my OG Surge and Mini Surge ( chisel ) to reflect it. I have plus kits for both Swisstool and Spirit but they IMO are not part of the tool per se. To me they are more add ons. The bit extender and bits could very well be viewed similarly I understand.
I have grown to really like the Spirit more than I did. I keep a Swisstool in my house tool box and garage. I keep a Spirit in my hike pack. I like the tools a lot but I might just be more of a fan boy of LM Charge/Surge and in general than I like to think :dunno:.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 16, 2019, 03:25:04 PM
I began my MT journey with Gerber tools, and while I still love my Gerber tools, LM tools gave edged them out in primary carry for themost part.
My main work carry consists of(when not trying new tools and doing challenges):
LM ChargeTTi w/21pc bit set(for 42 drivers), Victorinox Explorer(extra drivers and loupe), Gerber Multi-Plier(OG pinchy for the ultra compact blunt pliers), and SOG CrossCut 2.0(compound leverage scissors for veneer cutting and such).
On the up-side, that carry reflects some of the best aspects of the big-brands. Off-day carries vary wildly though. The Spirit sees a good deal of pocket time, paired with the SOG CrossCut. :ahhh
Post by: Douglas on May 16, 2019, 06:22:17 PM
Will be watching.
Post by: Butch on May 16, 2019, 06:48:01 PM
:bud:
Post by: Butch on May 16, 2019, 06:48:26 PM
Post by: Aloha on May 16, 2019, 06:50:31 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 16, 2019, 08:16:17 PM
INTERESTING.:cheers:
Will be watching.
I'm pretty excited. :woohoo:
Though, unfortunately, USPS has my package marked as "arriving late". :rant:
:bud:
:nothingtoadd::rofl:
I dont carry Gerber tools. The one I did carry was the Shard but it was left at a job. I have a couple polished big scissors older ones. They are purely for the collection. I had a couple other Gerbers but I moved them on. I just prefer LM however my Spirit is on my belt for work every time I head out.Love the OG MPs. Dangerous tools(versions 1 & 2 had handles even closer than the more common versions 3 & 4. Then the version 5 fixed the tight closure), but quite amazing in design and execution. :like:
I would have to say, overall, the SwissTool is superior to the MP600. But, that said, the MP600 is more reliable due to the lower tolerances(low maintenance tool), and cheaper by a long shot. I'm so glad I do not have to pick just one or two tools. Some days I want to carry a precision tool, and other days it is something like an MP600, etc. And everyday I carry a little of each..haha
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 16, 2019, 08:31:44 PM
Sorry to resurrect this thread, but I felt it is relevant for what is coming. :)
Later today I am expecting one of the latest versions of a SwissTool X. One with the cutters reversed, SS precision cut file and fatter pliers heads. I am quite excited about it and still thank Douglas for his original gift of the OG SwissTool(1998 version), that added Vic as a brand I keep in the ever-growing MT collection. I have since bought an OG SwissTool RS as well. Both are fantastic tools. I have also acquired two Spirits and like them a lot, but just find the bigger SwissTool to be my favorite of the two models. Likely, because I prefer thicker tools for gripping comfort.
Since I made this thread, my opinions have changed, some better and some worse. However, I still like Vic's pliers-based MTs quite a lot(some assume my criticisms of the SwissTools to be born oit of fandom for other brands, but that isn't realy the case). Not my absolute favorite, but the SwissTool is in the top five of my favorites. I have my little subjective issues, so may be this thread could be proof that I have never been a SwissTool denier, and generally have the highest feelings about tools I haven't used yet. Since using both the SwissTool and Spirit, my views have altered and it has made it easier for me to objectively look at the tools themselves.
:cheers:
Here's hoping the modern SwissTool X is a winner.
My old pug passed last year, but we'll see if our new fur baby approves of another SwissTool. :)
The same has been said about me and Leatherman Tools ... ;)
In the end the best tool is still the one you have on you in a time of need, and most of the modern Multitools will get the job done anyway, and they all have their pros and cons.
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 16, 2019, 10:39:00 PM
The same has been said about me and Leatherman Tools ... ;)Sorry about all of the typos. Hadn't realized it until now. That's what I get posting after bedtime medication. :rofl: :facepalm:
In the end the best tool is still the one you have on you in a time of need, and most of the modern Multitools will get the job done anyway, and they all have their pros and cons.
Very true about pros and cons. But, as yoi say, most modern tools will do the job. :)
The OG SwissTool is still one of my favorites, and it is quite an old design. Vic just did a jam up job with the SwissTool when they designed it, and a testament to how good it is shows from the fact we still use it to judge new tools. :)
Post by: Blackbeard on May 17, 2019, 02:16:27 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 17, 2019, 02:44:25 AM
Maybe change your name to "Vic Gerleatherberman" quite a mouthful but nobody would assume you don't like em:rofl:
Good one, Blackbeard! :like:
Then we'd need to add SOG in there somewhere. :ahhh
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 18, 2019, 04:27:07 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/j2esgLt.jpg)
Still messing with the new SwissTool, but early feelings are mixed. Some good stuff and some not-so-good stuff(relative to the older SwissTools).
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 18, 2019, 06:22:09 AM
The larger cutter section is a welcomed sight, and the reversed cutter sides theoretically improve the removal of tough bolts and such. Compounded by the more narrow opening, beefed up jaw parts, and the type of steel they use(a bit softer, but less likely to ever break off); I don't think anyone could break the pliers on the newer SwissTool(without putting the handles in a vise or something). The handle stops would likely fail before the jaws. I would bet the newer SwissTool has the hardest to break pliers setup(head and handles design) of any multitool out there. Quite confidence inspiring. :)
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 18, 2019, 08:26:22 AM
Post by: Douglas on May 18, 2019, 08:38:43 AM
:popcorn:
INTERESTING.
Will be watching.
(https://www.emojirequest.com/images/BinocularsEmoji.jpg)
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 19, 2019, 11:13:11 AM
Newest version of SwissTool vs. OG SwissTool and OG RS.
Appearance:
I like the stamped "Victorinox" on each handle, so both sides of the tool have a stamp. The red stripe was cool, but looks a bit ugly to me when it is worn(as I said, subjective, because some people like a worn-looking tool).
Pliers head does not have any engraving on the newest SwissTool, but it has a nice beefy look that I find very very attractive. Pliers heads are equally nice looking to me in the grind polish, with somewhat smooth bare-cast areas.
*Shown with a Spirit on each side of the group of the three SwissTools for visual reference.*
(https://i.imgur.com/qriBHUR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/j2esgLt.jpg)
Handle Splay and pliers function:
The newer SwissTool has 0.35" more handle splay at the handle ends. My hands are relatively mid-large and I find the new SwissTool to still be comfortable to use. People with medium and smallish hands may find the additional splay to be detrimental to comfort relative to the OG SwissTool.
OG SwissTool's pliers head opens up to 1.47" at the very tips. The newer SwissTool's pliers open to 1.15". The reduction in width is VERY significant, as the OG SwissTool already falls behind competition in the size objects that can be gripped. There is 0.15" less space in the newer SwissTool's bolt-section as well. The OG SwissTool has 0.20" cutter section length, which was one of the smallest cutter sections at the time. The newer SwissTool has 0.25" length in the cutter section, which is much more useful than the numbers would suggest. The newer SwissTool cutters are quite nice and has the same double-notch configuration as the Spirit.
The newer SwissTool pliers head is much beefier and has the pliers halves "reversed"(compared to the OG SwissTool and most other brands). The configuration allows for massive strength when twisting out bolts and such. Not that the OG SwissTool pliers are weak, it is just the newer SwissTool pliers are even stronger. Compound the beefier jaws, reversed halves, and narrower opening; the newer SwissTool pliers are probably more reliable.
(https://i.imgur.com/MuqXd0w.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2nORKKs.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ML9VO1K.jpg)
Tool differences:
Big Flat Driver/prying tool = Unchanged and still one of the best implements on an MT out there.
(https://i.imgur.com/uoRmI5J.jpg)
File/metal saw(please ignore the middle SwissTool in this image, since it is an RS) = Old file is a good file, but it is not very aggressive, will spot up if not oiled, and can clog more easily than the newer Vic files. The newer SwissTool file/metal saw is very aggressive and fantastically made, as well as being stainless(like the Spirit file - matches the rest of the tool).
(https://i.imgur.com/VZXmrfT.jpg)
Scissors = Unchanged and still some of the best scissors on a pliers-based MT.
(https://i.imgur.com/Nc4VpOC.jpg)
Phillips driver = Unchanged and functions quite well. Steel is a tiny bit on the soft side compared to some competitors, but should be fine if you don't slip out of the screw to much.
(https://i.imgur.com/l05l7FU.jpg)
Small Flat Driver = Nearly identical and functions fine.
(https://i.imgur.com/hRpPxjv.jpg)
Awl = The OG fluted awl is my favorite, but that wasn't on the SwissTool for long. The standard SwissTool awl is the same as some of the older ones. That said, I'd love to see the original fluted awl on the new SwissTool, since it is like the awesome awl on the 91mm SAKs.
(https://i.imgur.com/0SALbgj.jpg)
Plain edge blade = Unchanged and still a good shape for general purpose use. Very sharp and easy to sharpen.
(https://i.imgur.com/Q8qMr5e.jpg)
Can Opener = Basically unchanged and still one of the best can openers out there.
(https://i.imgur.com/xwXR0kd.jpg)
Chisel/Stripper tool = Basically unchanged and a highly useful tool, when you can remember it is there. :D
(https://i.imgur.com/Aht1Emi.jpg)
Wood saw = Nearly unchanged, but the newer SwissTool saw isn't finished as well as the older ones. The teeth have small burrs on them from the factory. Now, that said, those burrs would likely be gone after a few good uses.
(https://i.imgur.com/tTyVlJU.jpg)
Bottle Opener/medium flat driver/wire bender = Nearly identical(grind lengths are slightly different) and still a great implement.
(https://i.imgur.com/aTYFvK6.jpg)
Cork Screw attachment area = My OG 98' SwissTool doesn't have the corkscrew attachment, but my OG RS does. The older corkscrew attachment area is identical to the newer SwissTool's attachment area.
(https://i.imgur.com/cfbMpfT.jpg)
Last, but not least:
Fit & Finish = Nearly identical overall and respectably consistent after 20 years(my 98' SwissTool to 2018 SwissTool X). The updated pliers head is configured differently and changes the tool's action when opening. The opening is easier to deploy and fold-up, but is not quite as "smooth" or "slick". That is the compromise, but I like the newer SwissTool pliers deployment a little better for actual use, since I can open them one-handed much more easily by putting my thumb between the handles and opening against my leg. Closure with one hand is easier as well. The right-angle square feature still works just fine on all of them.
The implements are a bit easier to extract in the newer SwissTool, which is a welcomed feature since the older SwissTools can rip nails off when they get dirty and/or need oiling. Spring retention is still good enough to function properly.
(https://i.imgur.com/vMRe35d.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0sirkrT.jpg)
O.K. Thanks for reading, y'all! Sorry if I missed anything and I apologize for any typos or errors! I know this subject has been covered before, but the proof is in the pudding for me personally. And seeing the SwissTools side-by-side(in person) has been very telling, which has let me maintain that the SwissTool is still an amazing multi-tool, even though the pliers opening and handle splay are a step backwards. This thread is not a comparison between the SwissTool and any other brand. It is merely to shed light on my experience with the older and newer SwissTools. The Spirit seems to catch a lot of Vic's limelight, but I feel the SwissTool is slightly superior to the Spirit for people who really depend on their Vic pliers-based tool. As mentioned, this is all subjective and everyone sees things differently, whether small differences or big differences. It keeps things interesting.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 19, 2019, 12:20:20 PM
I'm glad you like the "new" Swisstool, and I agree on the "negative" points, like the pliers opening less wide (handle splay isn't really a problem for me, but I've got quite large hands so ...) and the soft Phillips driver. This last one being number one on my list of things Victorinox should change on their tools, maybe they should take a look at the ST300, which has the best Phillips on a multitool out there (in my own humble opinion).
I also prefer the Swisstool over the Spirit, since I always carry my tools in a sheath on my belt anyway the bigger size/weight doesn't really bother me, and I think it just feels better in hand (but I should also say that, during the time that I carried my Spirit, it hasn't failed me once ...).
Thanks for the write-up mate :salute:.
Post by: Aloha on May 19, 2019, 03:57:21 PM
Post by: VICMAN on May 19, 2019, 11:50:42 PM
Thanks for taking the time to post it. :cheers:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 20, 2019, 02:34:34 AM
Great write-up gerleatherberman :tu:.
I'm glad you like the "new" Swisstool, and I agree on the "negative" points, like the pliers opening less wide (handle splay isn't really a problem for me, but I've got quite large hands so ...) and the soft Phillips driver. This last one being number one on my list of things Victorinox should change on their tools, maybe they should take a look at the ST300, which has the best Phillips on a multitool out there (in my own humble opinion).
I also prefer the Swisstool over the Spirit, since I always carry my tools in a sheath on my belt anyway the bigger size/weight doesn't really bother me, and I think it just feels better in hand (but I should also say that, during the time that I carried my Spirit, it hasn't failed me once ...).
Thanks for the write-up mate :salute:.
Thank you for the kind words and you're welcome, T-G! :cheers:
Nice write up. Handle splay isn't a bother to me as I also have large hands. The phillips on my Spirit will be rounded over sooner than later. A dirty Victorinox can be a problem, I've had a few experiences with this. I was a much bigger fan of the Swisstool over the Spirit but I've now carried my Spirit more and more and quite like it. Can't argue ergonomics in plier mode thats for sure. I still very much like my Swisstool. You are very right about those scissors being some of the very best. The Spirit scissors are a big fail in my book so much so that I wish they weren't even there. Both tools however have a great compliment of tools. I do appreciate the bluntish pliers very much.Thanks for the nice reply and thoughts, Aloha! :cheers:
Great review and pics gerleatherberman! :like: :tu: :tu:Thank you, VICMAN, and you're welcome! :cheers:
Thanks for taking the time to post it. :cheers:
Post by: Douglas on May 21, 2019, 03:53:45 AM
The Swisstool and Spirit are still my favorite MT's but I must concede Vic could take a few lessons from Leatherman and others. :facepalm: I love the build of the new pliars but am in total agreement with you on the smaller opening being a step backward. I would even go so far as to say this could be VIc's first lesson. With the extra strength why not include replaceable cutters and increase to opening of the jaws. How about moving the knife blade to the opposite side add a thumb stud with a shape simular to the locking mechanism etched with measurements to maintain the ruler while adding right hand OHO to the main blade. Couls we upgrade the chisel on the Swisstool to match the superior one on the Spirt. Speeking of superioir and matching, how about upgrading the Spirit scissors to match the Swisstool. Lesson 2: FOR HEAVENS SAKE, STOP polishing the drivers to the point the ends are rounded. Lesson 3: pocket clip option, if the Surge can be carried with a pocket clip so can a Swisstool. How about adding a blade exchanger or just a diamond file. Has anyone considered adding 1mm to the width dropping out the phillips shortening the awl and small driver and putting a 1/4 inch bit driver in place of the phillips. Let's face it Vic gave us a superior design with unmatched build quality at a time when the MT was realy just starting to come into it's own. :salute: The Swisstool and Spirit are still great tools and set an unparalleled high quality standard to this day. :cheers: While they are virtually unchanged, the rest of the industry has been taking chances. Those chances have seen some real flopps but they also have made some geat strides. :pok: :pok: Now Victorinox it's time to once again step up to the plate get inovative and raise the bar to a new level. :popcorn:
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 21, 2019, 04:28:18 AM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 21, 2019, 05:06:56 AM
Superb synopsis G-Man. :hatsoff:Thank you, Douglas! :cheers:
The Swisstool and Spirit are still my favorite MT's but I must concede Vic could take a few lessons from Leatherman and others. :facepalm: I love the build of the new pliars but am in total agreement with you on the smaller opening being a step backward. I would even go so far as to say this could be VIc's first lesson. With the extra strength why not include replaceable cutters and increase to opening of the jaws. How about moving the knife blade to the opposite side add a thumb stud with a shape simular to the locking mechanism etched with measurements to maintain the ruler while adding right hand OHO to the main blade. Couls we upgrade the chisel on the Swisstool to match the superior one on the Spirt. Speeking of superioir and matching, how about upgrading the Spirit scissors to match the Swisstool. Lesson 2: FOR HEAVENS SAKE, STOP polishing the drivers to the point the ends are rounded. Lesson 3: pocket clip option, if the Surge can be carried with a pocket clip so can a Swisstool. How about adding a blade exchanger or just a diamond file. Has anyone considered adding 1mm to the width dropping out the phillips shortening the awl and small driver and putting a 1/4 inch bit driver in place of the phillips. Let's face it Vic gave us a superior design with unmatched build quality at a time when the MT was realy just starting to come into it's own. :salute: The Swisstool and Spirit are still great tools and set an unparalleled high quality standard to this day. :cheers: While they are virtually unchanged, the rest of the industry has been taking chances. Those chances have seen some real flopps but they also have made some geat strides. :pok: :pok: Now Victorinox it's time to once again step up to the plate get inovative and raise the bar to a new level. :popcorn:
Excellent notes there too! :salute:
I think that Vic isn't going to change anything anytime soon. IMO anyway. Their pink elephant in the room is that they can produce high quality tools for lower-than-expected prices. That is that they depend on the same basic design, machining, and parts to make just a handful of actually unique products. Example: the 91mm line only differs in the tool selection and scales, so the different models really don't differ much, since the only notable distinction is the toolset/scale color. Same with their two pliers-models. The same tooling and automation are used for decades, so the materials and tooling-parts are most of the expense.
There are exceptions to this, like some of the shears/pliers RangerGrips, but there again, most of the parts are used in other models.
It is a great system to help in keeping costs down on high-quality products, but the downside is that they rarely ever produce anything radically different or new. :-[
When Vic does produce tools with production-unique aspects, the price is extremely high. In short, from my subjective view, their party trick is consistency. It serves them well as far as profit goes, and it serves us well as far as pricing and quality goes. :woohoo:
As long as people keep forking over the money for the SwissTool as it is, we will likely not see any upgrades that would require new tooling and production alterations. :cry:
Fortunately, having now added the new version of the SwissTool, it is obvious the tool is just as useful, and possibly more reliable, than its' predecessors. :)
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 21, 2019, 05:10:24 AM
I wound up using the ratchet set from my Swisstool RS on a project tonight after the battery died on my cordless drill. Like GMan, I didn't understand until Aloha sent me his Swisstool to try. After that, I understood!:like:
Indeed. The SwissTool, and particularly the OG, alters the perception of other tools. :ahhh
Stuff I used to think was pretty good, turned just O.K. after Douglas gifted me the OG SwissTool. :)
Post by: Douglas on May 21, 2019, 05:39:06 AM
Thank you, Douglas! :cheers:
Excellent notes there too! :salute:
I think that Vic isn't going to change anything anytime soon. IMO anyway. Their pink elephant in the room is that they can produce high quality tools for lower-than-expected prices. That is that they depend on the same basic design, machining, and parts to make just a handful of actually unique products. Example: the 91mm line only differs in the tool selection and scales, so the different models really don't differ much, since the only notable distinction is the toolset/scale color. Same with their two pliers-models. The same tooling and automation are used for decades, so the materials and tooling-parts are most of the expense.
There are exceptions to this, like some of the shears/pliers RangerGrips, but there again, most of the parts are used in other models.
It is a great system to help in keeping costs down on high-quality products, but the downside is that they rarely ever produce anything radically different or new. :-[
When Vic does produce tools with production-unique aspects, the price is extremely high. In short, from my subjective view, their party trick is consistency. It serves them well as far as profit goes, and it serves us well as far as pricing and quality goes. :woohoo:
As long as people keep forking over the money for the SwissTool as it is, we will likely not see any upgrades that would require new tooling and production alterations. :cry:
Fortunately, having now added the new version of the SwissTool, it is obvious the tool is just as useful, and possibly more reliable, than its' predecessors. :)
:iagree:
but one can DREAM
:dd:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 21, 2019, 05:53:49 AM
:iagree:Indeed. :cheers:
but one can DREAM
:dd:
Post by: magentus on May 21, 2019, 12:03:47 PM
Having only owned a Crunch from the LM stable (and that only briefly), I can't speak to the different levels of quality between them and Vic, but from what I read the Vics are of a higher quality.
A multitool is always going to be a compromise but the Spirit pretty much covers all I would want from it.
I owe thanks to Gustophersmob for running the GAW where I won the mighty Spirit several years ago :salute:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 21, 2019, 12:32:23 PM
And to boot, the Crunch and Spirit are vastly different configurations(the reason you almost never read about people comparing them).
Let me clarify the apples and oranges scenario. The Crunch has many more complications involved to operate properly, as there is no room for handle misalignment, and it must perform a locking pliers function(highly complicated execution for such a small package). Then tack on the little set of good quality locking tools in the handle. On the flip side, the construction of the Spirit(and other tools with locking outboard implements and snappy pliers, like the Gerber MP700/800, Ganzo 301/302, etc etc) is more forgiving, as the handles don't have to align to such a degree. The implement ends and locking mechanism of the Spirit are more complicated than a lot of other tools, but the pliers end is rather simple. Flattened parts of the pliers pivot mounts catch on the spring tabs behind them to give that "pop" into position. Look at that Ganzo and you'll see what I mean. Locking pliers tools like the LM Crunch and Gerber Grappler can suffer from the slightest imperfection, which non-locking pliers tools do not.
Aside from being about the same price, I just cannot see a situation where the two can be compared. One is not much like the other. :dunno:
Post by: magentus on May 21, 2019, 12:47:57 PM
I wasn't comparing the Crunch to the Spirit - just saying that was my only LM experience. :cheers:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 21, 2019, 12:56:47 PM
Now, that said, I have a dilemma. The two Spirits I have both have very minor production flaws. Not that I really care, because 90% of MTs I own I can find minor issues with. But, in another thread, I was told a certain era of Spirits have zero flaws(perfection was the term used) and I now have to locate a Spirit with the engraved Vic logo on the pliers. :facepalm:
I'm sick, I know. :rofl:
Post by: comis on May 21, 2019, 01:08:46 PM
I think that sometimes collectors lose sight that Victorinox are producing tools, not collection pieces. The Spirit and Swisstool are the absolute pinnacle of an already high standard of quality and the toolset is pretty awesome as it is. Yes, they could produce slightly different models, but that would really only be for collectors who will only make up a tiny percentage of the customer base.
Well said, I think there maybe a fundamental difference of believes between Vic and LM camps--
Vic seems to make their MT to cover 80% of our common daily needs, they were never meant to be real tools replacement nor a comprehensive solution to tradesmen. Their tools don't have OHO blade nor replaceable pliers cutter, partly due to Europe regulations, but again, one could also say it is in sync with their philosophy. With every tools available on the outside, opens and closes with Swiss precision, their tools strike a great balance between efficiency and effectiveness. :cheers:
On the other hand, LM seems to try to capture a different part of market, by offering something different from Vic. With the adapters and bits, replaceable cutters and OHO blade, they moved away from the original PST design which serves similar 80% philosophy as Vic's tools. I think these tools are successful in their own ways, especially the OHO blade, it speaks to modern folding knife communities in US, which is huge. The Charge/Wave chassis trade in some efficiency of non blade tools, but gain extra effectiveness with the bit adapter.
I personally always felt a little torn between Vic Spirit and my Charge/Wave. Don't get me wrong, Spirit is perfect for my use in every way, but if they could have OHO, that would be so much sweeter! :drool:
Now what makes thing interesting is the new LM Free series, with all tools available outside, magnets to solve the OHO pliers puzzle and help outside tools retention, I felt LM is re-introducing that 80% philosophy back with all the convenience of all tools OHO.
Post by: magentus on May 21, 2019, 01:50:32 PM
Quote
I was told a certain era of Spirits have zero flaws(perfection was the term used) and I now have to locate a Spirit with the engraved Vic logo on the pliers.
Like this one? :D
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 21, 2019, 01:57:40 PM
Like this one? :DYup. :like:
Well said, I think there maybe a fundamental difference of believes between Vic and LM camps--Thank you for sharing your thoughts on it, comis! :cheers:
Vic seems to make their MT to cover 80% of our common daily needs, they were never meant to be real tools replacement nor a comprehensive solution to tradesmen. Their tools don't have OHO blade nor replaceable pliers cutter, partly due to Europe regulations, but again, one could also say it is in sync with their philosophy. With every tools available on the outside, opens and closes with Swiss precision, their tools strike a great balance between efficiency and effectiveness. :cheers:
On the other hand, LM seems to try to capture a different part of market, by offering something different from Vic. With the adapters and bits, replaceable cutters and OHO blade, they moved away from the original PST design which serves similar 80% philosophy as Vic's tools. I think these tools are successful in their own ways, especially the OHO blade, it speaks to modern folding knife communities in US, which is huge. The Charge/Wave chassis trade in some efficiency of non blade tools, but gain extra effectiveness with the bit adapter.
I personally always felt a little torn between Vic Spirit and my Charge/Wave. Don't get me wrong, Spirit is perfect for my use in every way, but if they could have OHO, that would be so much sweeter! :drool:
Now what makes thing interesting is the new LM Free series, with all tools available outside, magnets to solve the OHO pliers puzzle and help outside tools retention, I felt LM is re-introducing that 80% philosophy back with all the convenience of all tools OHO.
Post by: magentus on May 21, 2019, 02:02:46 PM
When I won the Spirit in gustophersmobs GAW he pm'd me and said that the Spirit would ruin me for other MT's. I think he may be right, though I have a massive fondness for the MP400.
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 21, 2019, 02:37:24 PM
Post by: magentus on May 21, 2019, 02:43:39 PM
I've always thought of the Gerber MP vs Swisstool as sort of the GI 1911 .45 vs a SIG P210...same basic tool in two vastly different realms.I had to look those up Barry - Which is the Spirit and which is the Gerber?
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 21, 2019, 03:00:37 PM
Post by: magentus on May 21, 2019, 03:02:58 PM
The Spirit is the SIG Mags. It's well known in the Pistol world as the Rolls Royce of handguns.:salute: Thanks for the clarification Barry
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 21, 2019, 03:05:15 PM
On a side note:
For some unknown reason, a large number of the MT threads(not about Spirits) turn into a Spirit discussion. To the point the original topic/question is lost(ex. This thread is about the larger Vic SwissTool). I've seen nearly everything compared to a spirit, and a lot of times stuff that isn't remotely in the same class or price range. :dunno:
Post by: Aloha on May 21, 2019, 03:13:37 PM
We each want our MT to perform tasks important to us. Victorinox MTs cut, turns, and grips, as do Leatherman MTs. Beyond that each company added tools like chisel, pry tool, scissors, bit holders, blade exchangers, replaceable wire cutters, fine blade flat driver, awl, and diamond file.
Thinking along the line of what comis wrote they each perform most everything a MT should. Other makers did produce specialized MTs but we see how this has worked. I think Victorinox simply produced their grand opera and there was no need to pump out versions. What they did do was offer the L wrench and ratchet to compliment their tools. Keeping it simple yet providing capabilities beyond their MTs.
Other makers in particular Leatherman, began to offer a larger variety as a compliment to their original design. We need to keep in mind than Victorinox is a knife maker so they have a large variety of Swiss Army Knives to choose from unlike Leatherman. Leatherman began to offer a few choices and began to refine their biggest sellers. The Wave has undergone several changes to include the Charge series. The Super Tool as well changed to what we now know as the ST300.
What I am saying is Victorinox doesn't have to offer anything new necessarily. They have made a change to the plier head of the Swisstool for strength and yes for some it could have been better ( opened bigger ). The Spirit can really use a change IMO, its scissors are not good. We already know Victorinox steel is on the soft side or for those that dont they will know soon enough with use. They produced a fantastically complete tool that covers as comis stated 80% of a MTs common purpose.
I am reminded of a thread I began to try to illustrate what the Spirit and Wave offered. A member was hell bent on demanding we all bow to the great Spirit. Comments like "if you use your tools" "hard use" etc etc seem to be used a lot. My thing is, if you are a tradesperson and RELY on your MT :dunno:. If you are a specialized tradesperson and are reaching for your MT :think:. The common usage is covered by a great many MTs from both makers. Leatherman users carry SAKs, Spirit and Swisstool users carry SAKs, and other makers users also carry SAKs. The point is we like tools and some PREFER certain tools.
I did a poll to see how many people were actually carrying and using their Victorinox MTs. Leatherman was the "winner" BUT I have always maintained the WINNER is the person who has a MT on them. Why? because the common tasks a MT is designed for can be completed with either Vic or LM. Turn, cut, grip, and file can be completed by both makers.
They both have outstanding CS. They both make a capable tool. We are going to carry a SAK regardless of how well appointed our MT is anyway. Yes I am a LM fan. I do however very much like and use my Victorinox MTs.
Now collectors :whistle: it does make it easier when a maker pumps out a lot of variety. And we are all waiting for a juice sized Spirit :popcorn:
Post by: magentus on May 21, 2019, 03:15:31 PM
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 21, 2019, 03:15:54 PM
Post by: Aloha on May 21, 2019, 03:16:11 PM
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 21, 2019, 03:16:50 PM
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 21, 2019, 03:18:43 PM
Good points Aloha :like:
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 21, 2019, 03:19:19 PM
Oh and I like to think bacon and sausage when I think Vic MTs and LM MTs. You decide which is which while I have both with eggs over easy and wheat toast please :D
Post by: magentus on May 21, 2019, 03:22:41 PM
:drool: :drool:. I like your comparison better my friend!
Yum!
We of all people should know there is no clear 'one MT to rule them all' - luckily we have lots and lots of toys to play with
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 21, 2019, 03:25:30 PM
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 21, 2019, 03:25:58 PM
Yum!
We of all people should know there is no clear 'one MT to rule them all' - luckily we have lots and lots of toys to play with
Post by: Aloha on May 21, 2019, 03:32:12 PM
Work wise I carry my Charge TTi and Spirit ( enjoying it on my hip ). I like the bit card. I can tackle a great many screw types on the spot. Once my tool belt is off tho I like having my Spirit on my hip. If can handle common tasks. If I need more tool then I go out to my vehicle. I don't complain the tool is lacking. Even my bit card has come up short. I have to go get the right tool which is no bother. Yes its awesome when you can remedy a situation on the spot with tools on hand. I have always looked at my MT as an apprentice. I would not expect my apprentice to be able to handle every they encountered. If they were able to work out something then great.
I think the reason why the Spirit gets a bigger share of the MT love is size. Its no different that the Wave and Surge IMO. I don't mind the Spirit coming up in our discussions. Its interesting however the passions. Its no different I guess than most anything. Cars, trucks, beard combs, boots, guns, motorcycles, etc etc.
I used to never eat pepperoni on my pizza. Man if you want to start a riot.............
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 21, 2019, 03:33:42 PM
Realy good post comis.Outstanding post, Aloha! That mirrors a lot of how I feel on the topic. With one exception, I think Gerber and SOG often get overlooked as options, because of how huge Vic is and how well-known LMs are. :D
We each want our MT to perform tasks important to us. Victorinox MTs cut, turns, and grips, as do Leatherman MTs. Beyond that each company added tools like chisel, pry tool, scissors, bit holders, blade exchangers, replaceable wire cutters, fine blade flat driver, awl, and diamond file.
Thinking along the line of what comis wrote they each perform most everything a MT should. Other makers did produce specialized MTs but we see how this has worked. I think Victorinox simply produced their grand opera and there was no need to pump out versions. What they did do was offer the L wrench and ratchet to compliment their tools. Keeping it simple yet providing capabilities beyond their MTs.
Other makers in particular Leatherman, began to offer a larger variety as a compliment to their original design. We need to keep in mind than Victorinox is a knife maker so they have a large variety of Swiss Army Knives to choose from unlike Leatherman. Leatherman began to offer a few choices and began to refine their biggest sellers. The Wave has undergone several changes to include the Charge series. The Super Tool as well changed to what we now know as the ST300.
What I am saying is Victorinox doesn't have to offer anything new necessarily. They have made a change to the plier head of the Swisstool for strength and yes for some it could have been better ( opened bigger ). The Spirit can really use a change IMO, its scissors are not good. We already know Victorinox steel is on the soft side or for those that dont they will know soon enough with use. They produced a fantastically complete tool that covers as comis stated 80% of a MTs common purpose.
I am reminded of a thread I began to try to illustrate what the Spirit and Wave offered. A member was hell bent on demanding we all bow to the great Spirit. Comments like "if you use your tools" "hard use" etc etc seem to be used a lot. My thing is, if you are a tradesperson and RELY on your MT :dunno:. If you are a specialized tradesperson and are reaching for your MT :think:. The common usage is covered by a great many MTs from both makers. Leatherman users carry SAKs, Spirit and Swisstool users carry SAKs, and other makers users also carry SAKs. The point is we like tools and some PREFER certain tools.
I did a poll to see how many people were actually carrying and using their Victorinox MTs. Leatherman was the "winner" BUT I have always maintained the WINNER is the person who has a MT on them. Why? because the common tasks a MT is designed for can be completed with either Vic or LM. Turn, cut, grip, and file can be completed by both makers.
They both have outstanding CS. They both make a capable tool. We are going to carry a SAK regardless of how well appointed our MT is anyway. Yes I am a LM fan. I do however very much like and use my Victorinox MTs.
Now collectors :whistle: it does make it easier when a maker pumps out a lot of variety. And we are all waiting for a juice sized Spirit :popcorn:
I've noticed the same thing GMan. I've looked for reviews on the Swisstool and most of the time they turn into Spirit reviews. I had a Spirit for a short period of time until my son reclaimed it :facepalm:. I definitely don't feel like I'm shorthanded with the Swisstool in my tool box though!:cheers:
Thanks for the reply, Barry!
In all honesty, I think the SwissTool is Vic's best pliers MT, by a long shot. :)
With this thread, I feel like carrying mine today!
I'll carry an OG SwissTool today as well! :cheers:
Yum!Very very true. :iagree: :like:
We of all people should know there is no clear 'one MT to rule them all' - luckily we have lots and lots of toys to play with
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 21, 2019, 03:36:07 PM
I have my Swisstool in my house tool box that I keep in the hall closet. Its a small set of regularly used tools. Why not have my Mighty Surge in there? If I need bit or blades I have those in a dedicated tool. My Swisstool offers an immediate fix and beyond that I have the needed tool. I also have a Swisstool in my garage. Why? Because I like the array of implements and again if I need a certain tool I am not relying on my MT anyway.:iagree: :like:
Work wise I carry my Charge TTi and Spirit ( enjoying it on my hip ). I like the bit card. I can tackle a great many screw types on the spot. Once my tool belt is off tho I like having my Spirit on my hip. If can handle common tasks. If I need more tool then I go out to my vehicle. I don't complain the tool is lacking. Even my bit card has come up short. I have to go get the right tool which is no bother. Yes its awesome when you can remedy a situation on the spot with tools on hand. I have always looked at my MT as an apprentice. I would not expect my apprentice to be able to handle every they encountered. If they were able to work out something then great.
I think the reason why the Spirit gets a bigger share of the MT love is size. Its no different that the Wave and Surge IMO. I don't mind the Spirit coming up in our discussions. Its interesting however the passions. Its no different I guess than most anything. Cars, trucks, beard combs, boots, guns, motorcycles, etc etc.
I used to never eat pepperoni on my pizza. Man if you want to start a riot.............
It is funny though. This thread was rather slow and docile. Then someone brought up a Spirit. I had notifications turned on for this thread. Going to turn them off now, because my inbox blew up. :rofl:
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 21, 2019, 03:39:49 PM
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 21, 2019, 03:41:18 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 21, 2019, 03:54:34 PM
Choices choices....
Eeny, meeny, miny, moe.....
(http://i.imgur.com/LGmVLiz.jpg)
The newer version(SwissTool X) today. :woohoo:
Post by: Aloha on May 21, 2019, 03:57:10 PM
Trying tools is another story. I don't mind trying :multi:
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 21, 2019, 04:00:04 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 21, 2019, 04:54:55 PM
I dont use either SOG or Gerber. I don't know why :dunno:. I tried both. A SOG PPP and Gerber MP400. In a lot of ways I do think familiarity comes into play. Theres a certain comfort with things familiar. I quickly moved from LM Wingman/Sidekick to a Wave then Surge. I tried a great many in between. I got very familiar with both tools from LM and they worked great for what I needed. Not a big jump to the Charge TTi. The sticking point was those CC plier head. No real reason I didn't like them other than familiarity :dunno:.Familiarity is a good reason to pick something for sure. :like:
Trying tools is another story. I don't mind trying :multi:
I used a Gerber Multi-Plier exclusively for over 10 years, so when I got my first LM(JPST), I thought LMs were junk(OG Multi-Plier has unparalleled comfort in grip as long as you watch your palm). Then I started reading and realized most big brands have their strong and weak attributes. I still carry the Multi-Plier in my back pocket for the blunt nose pliers. But, for my main tools(NN), I rotate every now and then, though my goto work-tool has been a LM Charge TTi with Blast pliers(no CC). For me, it has that perfect blend of robust tool and nice design. I am not afraid to use it and am happy to look at it. It can be taken apart for maintenance, 42 drivers ride with it, and the toolset is near perfect(except it needs an awl for my job). My Vic Explorer(also carried over 10 years and longer than the Multi-Plier) handles the awl jobs though. The SOG CrossCut with compound leverage scissors is great for cutting veneer. :D
The SwissTool is one of the tools in the main rotation, particularly off days. Though I haven't been carrying it much since getting the LM Free P4, it is now back in rotation since I have gotten a good feel of how the P4 performs. The OG SwissTool has been quickly overtaken by the newer version. Guess I'm a sucker for the beefier pliers(being the X model helps too, since my OG SwissTools are rescue blade oriented). :woohoo:
Post by: Aloha on May 21, 2019, 05:20:11 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 21, 2019, 05:36:44 PM
I started with a few on the coffee table. Now there may be one or two laying around. :whistle:
I admire your self-control. :like:
Post by: Douglas on May 22, 2019, 05:16:08 AM
Seems I stired up quite the Hornets nest. Please don't take my previous post wrong, the SwissTool and Spirit are great tools and STILL just as valid as any NEW tool on the market today. I understand Vic tools fill a certain niche in the market and they have no NEED to make a bunch of changes. By the same token Leatherman fills another corner and they fill it very well. That being said you all make great and valid points of bacon, sausage and 2 eggs over easy with whole wheat toast. :pok: :pok: That's just a small part of why I love this place so much.l
Now if we could just get Vic, Leatherman, Gerber and SOG to collaborate. :whistle: that would be like...
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 22, 2019, 05:18:49 AM
Quote from: Douglas
Now if we could just get Vic, Leatherman, Gerber and SOG to collaborate. that would be like...Oh man. Don't you know that would be an expensive tool, but likely as close to perfect as it can get. :dd:
Post by: Aloha on May 22, 2019, 06:11:23 AM
Post by: Douglas on May 22, 2019, 02:36:24 PM
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 22, 2019, 03:15:32 PM
Post by: Aloha on May 22, 2019, 03:37:37 PM
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 22, 2019, 10:28:08 PM
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 23, 2019, 10:50:23 PM
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 23, 2019, 11:36:58 PM
:ahhh. Is there a ratchet that comes with the bit set? I have the breaker bar, but the ratchet would come in very handy!
You mean one of these ... ?
(https://i.imgur.com/QYhqzn7.jpg)
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 23, 2019, 11:58:45 PM
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 24, 2019, 12:12:21 AM
Post by: VICMAN on May 24, 2019, 12:17:22 AM
When the Swisstool came out I was still a Victorinox Dealer so I have had an Original Swisstool all these years.
I have been wanting to try the newer Swisstools with the reversed pliers jaws, beefier pliers, and newer metal saw, so I have ordered a Swisstool X and a Swisstool Spirit X. :woohoo:
Hopefully they will arrive about Tuesday or Wednesday. :mail:
I will post pictures when they arrive! :D
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 24, 2019, 12:20:31 AM
I think I'm the only MT.o member that thinks driving screws with a ratchet is just plain wrong. :rofl:
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 24, 2019, 12:21:18 AM
After following this thread I decided it is time for me to to get some current Swisstools.
When the Swisstool came out I was still a Victorinox Dealer so I have had an Original Swisstool all these years.
I have been wanting to try the newer Swisstools with the reversed pliers jaws, beefier pliers, and newer metal saw, so I have ordered a Swisstool X and a Swisstool Spirit X. :woohoo:
Hopefully they will arrive about Tuesday or Wednesday. :mail:
I will post pictures when they arrive! :D
Post by: VICMAN on May 24, 2019, 12:38:55 AM
Post by: magentus on May 24, 2019, 04:09:29 PM
That's it!I can recommend the Topeak Rocket ratchet Barry - It's gears are reversible and it holds bits better than the Vic one plus I think it's cheaper! :tu:
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 24, 2019, 05:05:42 PM
Post by: magentus on May 24, 2019, 08:43:25 PM
Thanks Magsie! Cost is always a factor in dealing with the Mrs! :facepalm:Well, for the price of the vic ratchet you could prolly get Topeaks for both of you. Plus you get love points for the romantic gesture. :cheers:
I'm here all week folks. Get your romance advice from Professor Mags, leading exponent of the Science Of Lurve
Post by: LoopCutter on May 25, 2019, 12:54:04 AM
There are several versions/models, What model do I want to search for, to get the best example of the Spirit
In case you were not aware, I LUV MY REBARS, I love my ST300, I use my SS Wave for my PT job due chemicals, have my Surge packed in my camping kitchen. I do like my MP400, because of the size.
I have missed out on a couple deals for Spirits because I did not understand the X model, or butter blade version or other different names.
So, please tell me what Spirit model I would be happy with based on the size and tools featured based on my Rebar Luv.
Thank you
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 25, 2019, 01:01:40 AM
Well, for the price of the vic ratchet you could prolly get Topeaks for both of you. Plus you get love points for the romantic gesture. :cheers:
I'm here all week folks. Get your romance advice from Professor Mags, leading exponent of the Science Of Lurve
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 25, 2019, 02:33:34 AM
@GLBM - Now that you have it figured out, I have a serious question concerning the Spirit.The Spirit S has the same tool load out as a Rebar, but those are rare as hen's teeth since being discontinued. Most versions have the silly Spirit scissors, which aren't terrible, because they do cut tiny stuff well. The basic Spirit X, being the cheapest version(around $100 without any accessories and a nylon sheath), has most of what a MT user will need for many tasks. The combo butter blade is a preference thing, but I like the regular PE blade better myself. The butter blade won't pierce.
There are several versions/models, What model do I want to search for, to get the best example of the Spirit
In case you were not aware, I LUV MY REBARS, I love my ST300, I use my SS Wave for my PT job due chemicals, have my Surge packed in my camping kitchen. I do like my MP400, because of the size.
I have missed out on a couple deals for Spirits because I did not understand the X model, or butter blade version or other different names.
So, please tell me what Spirit model I would be happy with based on the size and tools featured based on my Rebar Luv.
Thank you
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The only thing some people don't like to mention, and the same goes for the bigger SwissTools, is that the high polish on the tool will make it slippery when hands are sweaty and/or oily. Just a public service announcement. :ahhh
The Spirit X is well made and looks nice. The steel isn't great(quite soft compared to LM and Gerber tool steel) but it is still pretty good for most tasks. The softer steel is much more rust resistant though. And make sure your fingernails are strong, because the tools are stiffer(defeating the spring retention) than the Rebar tools. But, the tools being outboard on the SwissTools is a benefit that makes up for that. Not a big deal for me since I use drivers with a handle folded out anyway, but some people will throw confetti over not having to ease a handle open to deploy a tool.
A Rebar is a true workman's tool and the Spirit is a true piece of precision engineering. I appreciate both, so I may not be the person to ask. I think the Rebar is a better value myself, but it isn't nearly as fun to play with as the SwissTools.
There are only two true frameworks of currently produced Vic pliers tools. The SwissTool, which is the mid-heavy duty; and the SwissTool Spirit, which is their medium duty tool. The designations(versions) of X, xbs, rs, rt, etc etc; just tell you the tool layouts, finish, and such.
I hope that helps. Please let me know if you'd like some close ups of the blades to get an idea of the differences. :)
Post by: LoopCutter on May 25, 2019, 03:49:27 AM
More detail than I anticipated, and I will print and study so I am ready when a opportunity presents itself.
I agree with you totally about the REBAR. Best value and function for the size. And like you, I use many of the tools with the handles extended for extra gripping area and control.
I just have not encounter a Swiss Tool or Spirit in person to have that “uh ha” moment. I just like the shape of the handles when unit is closed, and finish is bling that is a plus, yet a BO model would be worth extra coin. (I missed Steve C selling a BO Spirit because I just was not sure. )
Again, thank you
for your insight and great ability to translate your thoughts into words. Sincerely
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Post by: gerleatherberman on May 25, 2019, 04:54:10 AM
Thank you very much!You're certainly welcome, LoopCutter! :cheers:
More detail than I anticipated, and I will print and study so I am ready when a opportunity presents itself.
I agree with you totally about the REBAR. Best value and function for the size. And like you, I use many of the tools with the handles extended for extra gripping area and control.
I just have not encounter a Swiss Tool or Spirit in person to have that “uh ha” moment. I just like the shape of the handles when unit is closed, and finish is bling that is a plus, yet a BO model would be worth extra coin. (I missed Steve C selling a BO Spirit because I just was not sure. )
Again, thank you
Sincerely
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
And thank you for the compliment, LC! :salute:
And whether a Spirit becomes your new EDC(or part of) or not, it is a must-have for any MT-enthusiast. IMO. :multi:
Good luck on finding one fpr a good price, especially the BO versions. :cheers:
The BO coating costs around $70 extra on the new Vic SwissTools. One of the biggest price digs in the MT world(shame on you, Vic). :ahhh
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on May 25, 2019, 05:29:11 PM
If I was going to buy my first Spirit, I would go for a Stainless version. And the butterblade version is my favorite, the knife is awesome, it cuts through stuff like... well, butter ::). And it's pointy enough to pierce through something, and even if it wasn't, there's always the awl.
The only thing I don't like about them (Swisstool and Spirit) is the Phillips screwdriver. They work great at first, but they do wear a lot faster than the Phillips on the ST300 for example.
And I'm one of those weirdos who likes the scissors on the Spirit. They are very solid, and you can't loose the spring like you can on the Swisstool/SAK version. And no, they don't open very wide, but in my opinion if it's too wide to fit into the scissors, maybe you should be using another tool for it. Same goes for when you're trying to give somebody a haircut with them...
And if the scissors are a problem to you, it can be fixed quite easily, without having to unscrew or drill out anything. There's a great "how to" tutorial about that here on MTO.
Just my 2 cents, as always ;).
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 25, 2019, 05:33:13 PM
Post by: LoopCutter on May 25, 2019, 07:18:24 PM
Since I found my Serrated Spartan (to be here next week), I am now focusing on a Spirit.
A Spirit X with either a PE or Butter Blade most likely in SS.
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Post by: Butch on May 25, 2019, 07:28:29 PM
Thank you Top Gear and Barry, I do appreciate your first hand thoughts.
Since I found my Serrated Spartan (to be here next week), I am now focusing on a Spirit.
A Spirit X with either a PE or Butter Blade most likely in SS.
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Great choice, Douglas gave me the one with butter blade. A wonderful tool. :tu:
Post by: comis on May 25, 2019, 07:34:46 PM
I always think the sharpening eventually will flat out the butter edge if not careful, and the PE is almost like having a familiar SAK knife migrated onto the Spirit.
Btw, did anyone ever tried using the butter edge on butter? :pok: :D
Post by: Butch on May 25, 2019, 07:38:08 PM
Wait a sec, am I the only one whom prefers Plain edge over the butter edge? :think: :dunno:
I always think the sharpening eventually will flat out the butter edge if not careful, and the PE is almost like having a familiar SAK knife migrated onto the Spirit.
Btw, did anyone ever tried using the butter edge on butter? :pok: :D
I'm retired so all the time in the world to sharpen carefully. So what do I know from nothing? :dunno:
Post by: gerleatherberman on May 25, 2019, 08:06:10 PM
I don't own any of the "new" BO Swisstools or Spirits, but I do own an older BO version of both, and if they would've been my first Swisstools, I would've been greatly disappointed with them. The older BO versions aren't very nice to look at, especially not when they are brand new.Thanks for the additional perspective, T-G! :cheers:
If I was going to buy my first Spirit, I would go for a Stainless version. And the butterblade version is my favorite, the knife is awesome, it cuts through stuff like... well, butter ::). And it's pointy enough to pierce through something, and even if it wasn't, there's always the awl.
The only thing I don't like about them (Swisstool and Spirit) is the Phillips screwdriver. They work great at first, but they do wear a lot faster than the Phillips on the ST300 for example.
And I'm one of those weirdos who likes the scissors on the Spirit. They are very solid, and you can't loose the spring like you can on the Swisstool/SAK version. And no, they don't open very wide, but in my opinion if it's too wide to fit into the scissors, maybe you should be using another tool for it. Same goes for when you're trying to give somebody a haircut with them...
And if the scissors are a problem to you, it can be fixed quite easily, without having to unscrew or drill out anything. There's a great "how to" tutorial about that here on MTO.
Just my 2 cents, as always ;).
Wait a sec, am I the only one whom prefers Plain edge over the butter edge? :think:You're not alone. I prefer the normal blade. :cheers:
I always think the sharpening eventually will flat out the butter edge if not careful, and the PE is almost like having a familiar SAK knife migrated onto the Spirit.
Btw, did anyone ever tried using the butter edge on butter? :pok: :D
Post by: Aloha on May 26, 2019, 04:14:37 AM
Post by: Barry Rowland on May 26, 2019, 04:25:22 AM