Multitool.org Forum

Tool Talk => Edged Tools => Topic started by: kkokkolis on July 22, 2017, 11:54:28 AM

Title: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on July 22, 2017, 11:54:28 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/58f3d6bfea1f34a48a5dabd72aefa782.jpg)
Title: Re: Knives for EDC
Post by: Zed on July 22, 2017, 12:07:27 PM
Nice selection mate  :salute:
Title: Re: Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on July 22, 2017, 12:12:33 PM
Years ago, when I was an MTO infant, I was asking questions about mainly 2 things.
1. Which are the traditional or archetype folding knives a man owes to himself to handle, experience, use and/or collect.
2. Which particular type of knife would be better for EDC.


Since then I acquired some knives and started EDCing some, leaving my precious Swisschamps at home. Now I see I have experienced the most basic knife types (I have enough SAKs but they differ in the number of layers, their main blade is always the same).
So, by looking at the picture above, please tell me, which traditional folding knife or penny knife isn't pictured on the lower half? We can see there:


1. A typical hunting lockback (similar to Buck's 110)
2. An Opinel Carbon
3. An Okapi
4. A Douk-Douk
5. A Merkator
6. A Swiss Army Knife
7. An Opinel Inox (Garden variety, literally)
8. Two traditional American slipjoints


They all have their merits and charms. Victorinox and Opinel were my EDC for years, but the Merkator and Douk-Douk are very slim and capable, the Okapi is very similar to the Opinel and the Americans have many variations. Which ones aren't pictured? I say:


9. A Higonogami
10. A Svord Peasant
11. A Sodbuster
12.?

Then, above we have some more modern types. A big Swiss Army, a Spyderco and a Buck "tactical" archetypes, a folding Scandi and my current EDC, the Gerber Double Take.
Question #2: Which one would (or do) you EDC and why?

Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Mechanickal on July 22, 2017, 01:56:59 PM
I'll probably keep carrying a Swiss Army Knife for my entire life.

Why? Doensn't scare people off and gets the job done for whatever task I come across.

Yesterday, while at a man's house who sells TSA confiscated knives, I was shown a handmade Damascus folding knife with the most beautifull filework I've ever seen. A true piece of art.

The price was right, but I knew I'd only place it in a display because: 1) I'd need a VALID reason to carry a knife like that, 2) It's to beautifull to use.
So I passed on those and grabbed a Compact, Cadet and Evowood 10 instead, wich will serve me more.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: David Bowen on July 22, 2017, 02:32:32 PM
There are literally hundreds of styles, lock types etc out there and I think you have a good representation. I've owned and and traded probably over 500 knives in the last 15 years and have gotten a good taste of what the market has to offer.

I recently got a douk-douk and a opinel 8 for Father's day and the douk-douk sees more action. It's light and razor sharp, easy on the pocket and the spring action is excellent. I carry everything from traditional to modern folders and I feel I would carry the spyderco most of all. Why? Pocket clip leaves room in my pocket for more gear, one hand opening for when my other hand is busy and a lock mechanism so if I do something stupid lol

Sent from my SM-T377V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on July 22, 2017, 02:32:58 PM
I am in favor of Swiss Army Knives too. I carried a Swisschamp and then the XLT for 30 years. Now I have a Spirit and a scissored Alox in my Skinth and I add the Ranger Hunter when outdoors, not to mention the Minichamp on my keyring. But I like to have a flat folder in my pocket for immediate use, mostly office and relative cutting tasks. I had a Cadet for that, retired after 25 years of use, because it carries an uncountable sentimental value. I tried then many knives in it's place. I used mostly a Mountaineer (great but not flat enough) and the Opinel Jardin (it is a bit big).
Now I use the Gerber Double Take and I think how easy would be for Victorinox to build something like that, in Alox form, with 3 layers, Blade/awl, Scissors and serrated blade/prunning blade. I would loose OHO and locking features (so it would be more legal) but that would be the Victorinox that cuts/pierces everything in the most pocketable format.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on July 22, 2017, 02:38:26 PM
David, I love the Spydercos. They have everything I would need on a single blade knife and the hole is much better for me than any thumbstud. Leatherman Charge/Surge/Wave have the best hole I have used though, the shape of the Spydercos is peculiar with that round hole. Anyway, the Endura is big and fearsome, people are startled by its click noise. So, even a smaller one (a Delica?) isn't for everyday use, although I EDC the Ladybug for years now.

I also prefer the Wenger hole over Victorinox, for their 111-130mm lines.

The Douk-Douk is very nice but the Merkator K55K has significant advantages, being as slim but locking and spear/drop point which I prefer, blame Victorinox use for that.

The Okapi is excellent. I am new to that. It looks like an Opinel but it has many "halfstops" and a clever locking. It is like a razor, I guess it is Carbon steel.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: ThePeacent on July 22, 2017, 03:05:24 PM
Excellent collection!
I don't necessarily carry them everyday, as my Spydercos are my main knives and most carried ones, but my Opinel, Eland and American Slipjoint are my favorite traditionals, and often carry them in the back pocket or the EDC Bag/murse.

(http://i.imgur.com/Yp7vJhj.jpg)

I had an Higonokami (two, actually) for some time but didn't really like them and gave both away.
I've given many Opinels away but I keep buying them whenever I travel to France, they're just so nice.
My attempts at giving most American slipjoints have failed, most were nail breakers or had other problems so I got rid of all but one.
Never tried a Svord, but I'd love to.

Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on July 22, 2017, 07:44:00 PM
I see Eland and Kudu are Cold Steel Okapi inspired knives. I didn't know them until now.
What's the problem with Higonogami?
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: 4everYoung on July 22, 2017, 08:32:05 PM
For most of my life I have carried a folding knife as edc. Not until I purchased my Skeletool did I even consider swapping my trusted knife for a multitool.
My current edc knife is my Custom Benchmade mini griptilian I got for Father's Day.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/31f4f0c92fc8be2795dedc7f2ac30deb.jpg)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Zed on July 22, 2017, 09:30:45 PM
No matter what's on my belt I always carry a folder like I've done for the last 37 years,a Spartan for years but in the past a 110 style lock folder, opinel for a lightweight option,and favourite slipjoints the stockman.sadly uk laws restrict me carry what I would like to carry  :-\
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on July 24, 2017, 02:10:52 PM
I'm in Chania, Crete, where they make great knives. I'm not a collector of knives, but I might add a peasant's folder or two to my other penny knives, to show you the similarities and differences to the Opinels.
A proper Cretan knife, with bone handle and silver sheath goes up to 1000€.
http://www.cretanknives.gr/product.aspx?id=1824&cat=14&lang=el
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Ron Who on July 24, 2017, 08:50:56 PM
You're missing a French traditional slipjoint, the Laguiole. And a bunch of other French, German and Italian trads. Like the Cretan knife, most are expensive.

Edit: add Spanish.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on July 24, 2017, 09:39:38 PM
Yes, but these aren't "penny" knives, intended for shepherds, peasants, fishermen or hunters. They are fighting knives that have less everyday utility (most are long and thin, oriented more at piercing than cutting). Undoubtably beautiful, they belong to collections and traditional folklore festivities, rather than urban EDC.


Anyway, I told you that we are not world famous for our steel. So Cretans do the same thing Ghourgas do. They use old files and suspension metal from old German and Swedish trucks. The finest steel recycled.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Steinar on July 24, 2017, 10:51:34 PM
You lack an Austrian Trattenbacher Feitel: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trattenbacher_Zauckerl

That should cover all the bases of being truly different, cheap/for ordinary people, and intended for EDC type of use. Not my cup of tea, but since this thread seems to be about covering ground in traditionals...
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: ColoSwiss on July 24, 2017, 11:28:49 PM
Great collection!

You might consider one of the most traditional of the traditional slip-joints - the Stockman. I carried assorted Stockmen for years, before discovering SAKs. More compact than my Scout knives, and with a lot of utility. The long pointed clip blade can also work as an awl; the sheepsfoot was designed for leatherwork but also works great as a box cutter. They also feel good in the hand, and have a wide selection of sizes and handle materials. I like the looks of the square-end Stockmen, but the round-end ones are easier on the pocket.





Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: pfrsantos on July 25, 2017, 12:10:19 AM
Yes, but these aren't "penny" knives, intended for shepherds, peasants, fishermen or hunters. They are fighting knives that have less everyday utility (most are long and thin, oriented more at piercing than cutting). Undoubtably beautiful, they belong to collections and traditional folklore festivities, rather than urban EDC.


Anyway, I told you that we are not world famous for our steel. So Cretans do the same thing Ghourgas do. They use old files and suspension metal from old German and Swedish trucks. The finest steel recycled.

You should get a portuguese "corta-e-pica" from Palaçoulo. Cost less than €5 and is a multitool: knife, fork, bottle opener.

 :tu: :tu:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on July 25, 2017, 01:14:59 AM
Yes, many knives fit the description


http://www.knifeplanet.net/iconic-knives-in-europe/


I like that Austrian one, it is as simple as it gets with that cylindrical handle.
Title: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on July 25, 2017, 07:21:24 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170725/ccb4d3d8a70558ae44b6fc6989c47032.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170725/4d049bead6d5f9c056b2efd16f3646cf.jpg)

This one is the knife I bought.

Knives here follow the general concept of Opinel, sans Vibrolock. This one has a liner lock, most are friction folders.
I've seen Opinel blades and even a Scandi blade, but this is the most original shape. All are hand made, so you have to find one with nice fit and finish. There are several sizes. Handle is from Olive tree for the cheap ones. This goes up to other woods, bones and horns, most from local flora and fauna. The handle has a distinct V tail, but there are two other shapes, one for the abundant serrated sickle (Tsaprazi, or Svarnadaki) and one for clipped blades. It doesn't have a nail nick but it is opened easily one handed.
Tourist kitch requires the blade and handle to bear certain ornaments. Two dolfins, a Kri-Kri goat, the Crete map shape (they love it here as Cypriots do), a Cretan outdoorsman, the Phestos disk and a Mantinada, traditional verse as a local Hai Ku.
There are astonishing Damascus and file forged blades, with white bone handles. This one is inox but it cuts great out of the box. Finish is a bit crude, testifying a handmade mass production procedure.
Generally, it is as good as any Opinel. It costs here 20€ for tourists at this #9 size, which is close.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: ThePeacent on July 25, 2017, 01:52:23 PM
Yes, but these aren't "penny" knives, intended for shepherds, peasants, fishermen or hunters. They are fighting knives that have less everyday utility (most are long and thin, oriented more at piercing than cutting). Undoubtably beautiful, they belong to collections and traditional folklore festivities, rather than urban EDC.


Anyway, I told you that we are not world famous for our steel. So Cretans do the same thing Ghourgas do. They use old files and suspension metal from old German and Swedish trucks. The finest steel recycled.

much like the old Spanish navajas, or Sardinian Resolza   :salute:

(http://i.imgur.com/Yxskb3P.jpg)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: pfrsantos on July 25, 2017, 02:04:21 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170725/ccb4d3d8a70558ae44b6fc6989c47032.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170725/4d049bead6d5f9c056b2efd16f3646cf.jpg)

This one is the knife I bought.

Knives here follow the general concept of Opinel, sans Vibrolock. This one has a liner lock, most are friction folders.
I've seen Opinel blades and even a Scandi blade, but this is the most original shape. All are hand made, so you have to find one with nice fit and finish. There are several sizes. Handle is from Olive tree for the cheap ones. This goes up to other woods, bones and horns, most from local flora and fauna. The handle has a distinct V tail, but there are two other shapes, one for the abundant serrated sickle (Tsaprazi, or Svarnadaki) and one for clipped blades. It doesn't have a nail nick but it is opened easily one handed.
Tourist kitch requires the blade and handle to bear certain ornaments. Two dolfins, a Kri-Kri goat, the Crete map shape (they love it here as Cypriots do), a Cretan outdoorsman, the Phestos disk and a Mantinada, traditional verse as a local Hai Ku.
There are astonishing Damascus and file forged blades, with white bone handles. This one is inox but it cuts great out of the box. Finish is a bit crude, testifying a handmade mass production procedure.
Generally, it is as good as any Opinel. It costs here 20€ for tourists at this #9 size, which is close.

General Concept!

 :salute:

At least one portuguese brand, Cutelaria Martins, is making a similar model with a similar lock.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: ThePeacent on July 25, 2017, 07:19:23 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170725/ccb4d3d8a70558ae44b6fc6989c47032.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170725/4d049bead6d5f9c056b2efd16f3646cf.jpg)

This one is the knife I bought.

Knives here follow the general concept of Opinel, sans Vibrolock. This one has a liner lock, most are friction folders.
I've seen Opinel blades and even a Scandi blade, but this is the most original shape. All are hand made, so you have to find one with nice fit and finish. There are several sizes. Handle is from Olive tree for the cheap ones. This goes up to other woods, bones and horns, most from local flora and fauna. The handle has a distinct V tail, but there are two other shapes, one for the abundant serrated sickle (Tsaprazi, or Svarnadaki) and one for clipped blades. It doesn't have a nail nick but it is opened easily one handed.
Tourist kitch requires the blade and handle to bear certain ornaments. Two dolfins, a Kri-Kri goat, the Crete map shape (they love it here as Cypriots do), a Cretan outdoorsman, the Phestos disk and a Mantinada, traditional verse as a local Hai Ku.
There are astonishing Damascus and file forged blades, with white bone handles. This one is inox but it cuts great out of the box. Finish is a bit crude, testifying a handmade mass production procedure.
Generally, it is as good as any Opinel. It costs here 20€ for tourists at this #9 size, which is close.

General Concept!

 :salute:

At least one portuguese brand, Cutelaria Martins, is making a similar model with a similar lock.

the most famous Portuguese knives are the MAM without a doubt, like Opinel is to France or Mora to Sweden, I'd say your collection is missing one!

http://www.filmam.com/
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Kampfer on July 25, 2017, 10:51:54 PM
You got some winners in your collection, the Mercator is the real winner for me.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 04, 2017, 12:41:53 PM
There are a couple more here: http://morethanjustsurviving.com/historical-knives/


1. HIGONOKAMI6. NONTRON11. BARLOW PATTERN (?)14. MIKOV FISH KNIFE
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 05, 2017, 11:04:45 AM
Combining various sources, I made a basic list.

(http://www.knifeplanet.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/albanianknife-compressed-1.jpg)
1. Bursa Arnavut Çakısı (Turkey- Albania)
(http://www.knifeplanet.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/belgium.jpg)
2. Lierenaar Farmers Knife (Belgium)
(http://manly-bg.com/clients/158/images/catalog/products/89968a90e4969c4c_01_1.jpg)
3. Manly Knife (Bulgaria)
(http://www.worldknives.com/images/dynamic/products-3320-1-large_Mikov-Silver-All-Metal-Fish-Knife---MIK130NZN1.jpg)
4. Mikov Fish Knive (Czechia)
(http://www.knifeplanet.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/france.jpg)
5. Opinel Yatagan (France)
(http://www.knifeplanet.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/french-laguiole-compressed.jpg)
6. Forge de Laguioe (France)
(https://www.couteaux-berthier.com/boutique/images_produits/iDOUKdoukPM.jpg)
7. Douk-Douk (France)
(http://www.knifeplanet.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/germany.jpg)
8. Merkator K55K (Germany)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/14/28/9b/14289be109d9629dbc367d0e7c0c72bf--minden-ami.jpg)
9. Szankovits (Hungary)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e0/8c/5f/e08c5f4c44cde13a8275340004bb4331.jpg)
10. Maskara (Hungary)
(http://www.agacampolin.com/images/portfolio/old-stiletto.jpg)
11. Stilleto (Italy)
(http://www.tradizionisarde.it/uploads_prodotti_sardi/5nerousai10.jpg)
12. Resolza Pattada (Sardinia)
(http://www.knifecountryusa.com/store/image/products/magnified/196220_196249.jpg)
13. MAM Corta e Pica (Portugal)
(http://www.knifeplanet.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/portuguese-CANE%C3%87AS-compressed.jpg)
14. Caneças
(http://www.joker.es/files/productos/productos/G/n-103d.jpg)
15. (Joker) Navaja (Spain)
(http://productimages.knife-depot.com/27/9_493841.jpg)
16. Swiss Army Knives family (Switzerland)
(http://www.thesheffieldcutleryshop.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/jack-2.jpg)
17. Sheffield knife (England)
(https://assets.bespokepost.com/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTUvMTEvMzAvMTYvMjYvNTgvNDkwL3NhaWthaV9icmFzc19rbmlmZV9zbWFsbF8zLmpwZyJdLFsicCIsInRodW1iIiwiMTIwMHgxMjAwIyJdLFsicCIsImVuY29kZSIsImpwZyIsIi1xdWFsaXR5IDc1IC1iYWNrZ3JvdW5kIHdoaXRlIC1mbGF0dGVuIl1d/saikai-brass-knife-small-3.jpg?sha=89838b944fccd1c8)
18. Higonogami (Japan)
(http://www.france-voyage.com/visuals/photos/nontron-knives-31162_w600.jpg)
19. Nontron knife (France)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/53/9e/54/539e548ed08f15a8fa85cda8f6d1714d--antique-rare-custom-knives.jpg)
20. Scarperia knife (Italy)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/af/9e/20/af9e20aa75116dd8ceeb9a655ed5a90e--vendetta-folding-knives.jpg)
21. Vendetta Corsa (France)
(https://images.knifecenter.com/thumb/1500x1500/knifecenter/schrade/images/SCHIMP22Y.jpg)
22. Sodbuster (US)
(http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=451&filename=plastic%20peasant%20knives_small.jpg)
23. SVORD Peasant (NZ)
(http://casiberia.com/img/prod/2x/ko9070.jpg)
24. Okapi (Germany, South Africa)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Trattenbacher_Taschenfeitel_%2809%29.jpg/440px-Trattenbacher_Taschenfeitel_%2809%29.jpg)
25. Trattenbacher Zauckerl (Austria)


(https://www.knife-depot.com/bundles/ircknifedepotcom/images/articles/case-knife-collection/case-knife-patterns.jpg)
26. Traditional Slipjoints (US)

Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 05, 2017, 11:18:12 AM
Of these, I consider 15 as penny/primitive/farmer-shepherd/historical knives, the ones with the cross
The rest are gentlemens' and/or fighting knives (the clasp knives especially)



1. Bursa Arnavut Çakısı (Turkey- Albania) +


2. Lierenaar Farmers Knife (Belgium) +


3. Manly Knife (Bulgaria) +


4. Mikov Fish Knive (Czechia) +


5. Opinel Yatagan (France) + !


6. Forge de Laguiole (France)


7. Douk-Douk (France) + !


8. Merkator K55K (Germany) + !


9. Szankovits (Hungary)


10. Maskara (Hungary)


11. Stilleto (Italy)


12. Resolza Pattada (Sardinia)


13. MAM Corta e Pica (Portugal) +


14. Caneças  (Portugal)


15. (Joker) Navaja (Spain)


16. Swiss Army Knives family (Switzerland) + !


17. Sheffield knife (England)


18. Higonogami (Japan) +


19. Nontron knife (France) +


20. Scarperia knife (Italy)


21. Vendetta Corsa (France)


22. Sodbuster (US) +


23. SVORD Peasant (NZ) +


24. Okapi (Germany, South Africa) + !


25. Trattenbacher Zauckerl (Austria) +


26. Traditional Slipjoints (US)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: pomsbz on August 07, 2017, 02:46:06 PM
I believe that the Sodbuster is originally a German design. I also have a feeling that the majority of US traditional knives were originally British patterns?
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: AimlessWanderer on August 07, 2017, 03:19:29 PM
I believe that the Sodbuster is originally a German design. I also have a feeling that the majority of US traditional knives were originally British patterns?

I don't know if the American companies copied the designs that we were already selling them, or if our patterns were influenced by the fact that we were selling heavily into the American market .... or a mixture of both.  :think: There doesn't seem to be a complete mirroring either. Lambsfoot blades and Wharncliffe's seem to be less popular in the States, and such as the Congress seems less popular over here. There seems to be less traditional double-ended penknives (aka sleeveboard) about these days too. My grandfather always carried penknives rather than the larger "farmers knives" that he would consider many traditional slippies to be.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: pfrsantos on August 07, 2017, 04:02:00 PM
I seem to recall having read the Okapi was based in a portuguese knife. The mechanism is partly like the lock in the Caneças. Not sure if it was in fact so. I'll try to find out more.

 :think: :think:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Ron Who on August 07, 2017, 06:02:11 PM
I believe that the Sodbuster is originally a German design. I also have a feeling that the majority of US traditional knives were originally British patterns?

I don't know if the American companies copied the designs that we were already selling them, or if our patterns were influenced by the fact that we were selling heavily into the American market .... or a mixture of both.  :think: There doesn't seem to be a complete mirroring either. Lambsfoot blades and Wharncliffe's seem to be less popular in the States, and such as the Congress seems less popular over here. There seems to be less traditional double-ended penknives (aka sleeveboard) about these days too. My grandfather always carried penknives rather than the larger "farmers knives" that he would consider many traditional slippies to be.

Do you mean your grandfather carried something like these Hartkopf knives?
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Zed on August 07, 2017, 06:23:38 PM
Not sure if mentioned?  Lockback hunting style knife  :tu:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: AimlessWanderer on August 07, 2017, 06:30:42 PM
I believe that the Sodbuster is originally a German design. I also have a feeling that the majority of US traditional knives were originally British patterns?

I don't know if the American companies copied the designs that we were already selling them, or if our patterns were influenced by the fact that we were selling heavily into the American market .... or a mixture of both.  :think: There doesn't seem to be a complete mirroring either. Lambsfoot blades and Wharncliffe's seem to be less popular in the States, and such as the Congress seems less popular over here. There seems to be less traditional double-ended penknives (aka sleeveboard) about these days too. My grandfather always carried penknives rather than the larger "farmers knives" that he would consider many traditional slippies to be.

Do you mean your grandfather carried something like these Hartkopf knives?

Like the top one, yes  :tu:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Steinar on August 07, 2017, 06:45:20 PM
The Sodbuster, or something I can't discern from a Sodbuster is often called Hippekniep in German and Mineur in French. I think such a basic pattern could easily flow very quickly between Sheffield-Solingen-Thiers making tracking the history somewhat challenging. I've seen it presented as a traditional American pattern on US sites, a traditional French pattern in French stores, and the Germans lay claim to it as well. I suspect they are all correct.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Ron Who on August 07, 2017, 06:50:10 PM
I believe that the Sodbuster is originally a German design. I also have a feeling that the majority of US traditional knives were originally British patterns?

I don't know if the American companies copied the designs that we were already selling them, or if our patterns were influenced by the fact that we were selling heavily into the American market .... or a mixture of both.  :think: There doesn't seem to be a complete mirroring either. Lambsfoot blades and Wharncliffe's seem to be less popular in the States, and such as the Congress seems less popular over here. There seems to be less traditional double-ended penknives (aka sleeveboard) about these days too. My grandfather always carried penknives rather than the larger "farmers knives" that he would consider many traditional slippies to be.

Do you mean your grandfather carried something like these Hartkopf knives?

Like the top one, yes  :tu:

First time I heard the name sleeveboard.  8)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 07, 2017, 07:00:09 PM
The Sodbuster must be coming from the German Hippekniep
https://www.windmuehlenme...ekniep-small-walnut-wood/ (https://www.windmuehlenmesser.de/en/product/hippekniep-small-walnut-wood/)


(https://www.windmuehlenmesser.de/fileadmin/_processed_/a/9/csm_0157_275_02_Hippekniep_klein_Kirsche_60cd556132.jpg)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Ron Who on August 07, 2017, 07:16:59 PM
A current French Sodbuster
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 07, 2017, 07:23:10 PM
(https://d.scdn.gr/images/sku_main_images/011316/11316728/20170314135256_baladeo_papagayo_olive_460404.jpeg)


There are many variations, like this Papagayo.  I find them all appealing.


And a Robert Klaas Mule (Solingen)


(https://www.knivesplus.com/media/KC-35.jpg)


The Antonini Lupo


(http://www.antoniniknives.com/files/Rs4WKn/930123_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Ron Who on August 07, 2017, 07:35:24 PM
I like the looks of that one too. But I went to a shop to see it in real life and found it had a lot of blade play. I asked the salesperson if he had some more, he did, but they were all equally bad. (These were the plastic handle versions)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 07, 2017, 07:37:56 PM
Updated list


In bold the ones I would like to have (with exclamation point the ones I already have).
Nontron, Joker, Antonini and other European makers make some old style knives. Some are far than the early "penny" knives, costing more than 60 euros today.
I guess that all originals are Eurasian designs and were radiated across the world with colonialism and the expanse of western civilisation.
That happened before. The Kukri is similar to the Macedonian Machaira (machaira means knife and it is the same in modern Greek), perhaps a heritage of the Hellenistic expansion to India. America and Oceania were in the stone or chalcolithic age when Sheffield, Thiers, Solingen and Gifu thrived.

1. Bursa Arnavut Çakısı (Turkey- Albania)
2. Lierenaar Farmers Knife (Belgium)
3. Manly Knife (Bulgaria)
4. Mikov Fish Knive (Czechia)
5. Opinel Yatagan (France)!
6. (Forge de) Laguiole (France)
7. Douk-Douk (France)!
8. Merkator K55K (Germany)!

9. Szankovits (Hungary)
10. Maskara (Hungary)
11. Stilleto (Italy)
12. Resolza Pattada (Sardinia)
13. MAM Corta e Pica (Portugal)
14. Caneças  (Portugal)
15. (Joker) Navaja (Spain)
16. Swiss Army Knives family (Switzerland)!
17. Sheffield knife (England)
18. Higonogami (Japan)
19. Nontron knife (France)

20. Scarperia knives (Italy)
21. Vendetta Corsa (France)
22. Sodbuster (US), Hippekniep, (Germany), Couteau de Pays Terroir (France)
23. SVORD Peasant (NZ)
24. Okapi (Germany, South Africa)!
25. Trattenbacher Zauckerl (Austria)

26. Traditional Slipjoints (Sheffield, US)
26. Buck 110 lockback hunter (US)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 07, 2017, 07:39:05 PM
I like the looks of that one too. But I went to a shop to see it in real life and found it had a lot of blade play. I asked the salesperson if he had some more, he did, but they were all equally bad. (These were the plastic handle versions)


They are supposed to be primitive!


But the Mercator, the Okapi, the Douk-Douk and the Opinels are all sturdy designs.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Ron Who on August 07, 2017, 09:14:43 PM
I like the looks of that one too. But I went to a shop to see it in real life and found it had a lot of blade play. I asked the salesperson if he had some more, he did, but they were all equally bad. (These were the plastic handle versions)


They are supposed to be primitive!


But the Mercator, the Okapi, the Douk-Douk and the Opinels are all sturdy designs.

Primitive, yes, but made in modern factories. The Klaas, Herder, and Windmill knives, I heard, are great.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 07, 2017, 09:18:22 PM
Herder made Sodbuster too! Indeed, it's not an American design it seems.


(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/e4EAAOSwK6RZLdHf/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Ron Who on August 07, 2017, 09:29:30 PM
My other Sodbuster has a Homeco tang stamp. It's a labeled Herder probably, for Homeij, a Dutch knife importer and wholesale.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Ron Who on August 07, 2017, 09:31:50 PM
I also have a few Sodbusters by Böker with plastic handles and back lock. But it's too dark for pics now.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Steinar on August 07, 2017, 09:34:00 PM
Quite a lot of cutlery companies named Herder over the years... The name literally means "[steel] hardener", just like a lot of blacksmiths were named Smith. ;)

I have (or have had) knives from both Klaas, Otter, and Windmühlenmesser. As with the other old Solingen companies I would recommend inspecting the knife before buying. I ended up giving away my Windmühlenmesser Sodbuster as the blade play was too annoying. Klaas is the one I've had least problems with. (Though the knives in question are hardly a statistically significant sample, just my personal experience.)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Smashie on August 07, 2017, 10:21:49 PM
I always thought the Barlow design originated in Sheffield but later became heavily adopted in the US?
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 07, 2017, 10:23:07 PM
Few knives are sold here, most are the big firms', Victorinox, Opinel, Buck, Gerber etc. I have to buy from abroad. But I can start from an Old Bear I saw downtown. I don't know if they have other Antoninis.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 07, 2017, 10:30:11 PM
I always thought the Barlow design originated in Sheffield but later became heavily adopted in the US?


Quote
According to Laurence A. Johnson (1) the Barlow knife was probably first manufactured by Obadiah Barlow at Sheffield, England, around 1670. (2)  Obadiah’s grandson, John Barlow, joined the business around 1745 and it was he who was chiefly responsible for developing the exportation of the Barlow knives to America. Another source says the barlow knife was also made by Luke Furnace of Stannington, which in the eighteenth century was a small village on the outskirts of Sheffield. Luke Furnace’s name occurs in the Sheffield directories from 1774 and 1787, but not in the 1797 directory, so he was presumably dead by then. He put the mark “1760” on his knives. The original Barlow, after whom the knives are named, was working in Sheffield at the same time as Luke Furnace.An 1823 directory of Sheffield, England cutlers (knife makers) shows Samuel Barlow on Neepsend (Street). In the Sheffield suburb of Stannington, Barlow Bros. is listed as a cutler.


http://barlow-knives.com/history.htm
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: AimlessWanderer on August 07, 2017, 11:01:05 PM
 :salute:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Ron Who on August 08, 2017, 07:20:41 PM
I also have a few Sodbusters by Böker with plastic handles and back lock. But it's too dark for pics now.

Here they are with a Böker LE trapper.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 08, 2017, 09:40:23 PM
I really like the Sodbuster's blade shape.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Ron Who on August 08, 2017, 10:02:35 PM
I like the blade shape very much.

I tend to think of droppoints as European and of clippoints as American.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: pomsbz on August 09, 2017, 03:32:39 PM
I really like the Sodbuster's blade shape.

I really don't actually. At least not the Case version. There is zero point for piercing, be it bread or plastic wrapping.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 17, 2017, 08:33:30 PM
I work with my list of penny/peasant/regional knives. It is much more complicated than I expected. I am close to 100, mostly counting Mediterranean designs (from Iberia, Francia and Italia). I expect that similar numbers would apply to Germanic designs, and I only search for folders, not fixed blades.
After this, I appreciated more the success of Opinel and Victoria knives, to establish their designs over so many candidates.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: ThePeacent on August 17, 2017, 10:54:53 PM
this interesting recent thread at BF is worth a read, kkokkolis    :salute:

http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/italian-knives.1510294/
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Fortytwo on August 18, 2017, 12:19:45 AM
The barrel knife is a supposedly Swedish style of folder and since they are also called "emigrants knives" they must have been among the cheaper alternatives. A bit of an oddball since it takes a bit of extra work to fold/unfold them and they have died out of large scale production.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 21, 2017, 11:34:47 AM
The Manly Comrade (I like the Soviet oriented pun) looks like a Sodbuster with modern materials. That's another nice EDC knife which isn't tactical and has a traditional heritage behind it.


(http://manly-bg.com/clients/158/images/catalog/products/43681ee21f9cc9eb_PIMG1341.jpg)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 23, 2017, 12:29:06 PM
My list is considerably complete for Italian and French traditional pocket knives. Perhaps Spanish and Portuguese too.
But since I don't know German, it isn't so for possible German, Austrian, Swiss, Dutch and Skandinavian designs, except the obvious ones.
The same goes for Slavic and UroAltaic designs.


So, I am posting a TAB delimited txt here (the original is xlsx and can't be uploaded). I am also posting 3 print screens of the file. If you kind persons know of another TRADITIONAL FOLDING design, used by ordinary people (gentlemen's knives, tacticals and customs excluded) around the world, please inform!


Fellow OCD people welcomed.


Thanks.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 23, 2017, 12:39:22 PM
The print screens.


We might build something big here, with pics and all, for reference.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Steinar on August 23, 2017, 01:09:57 PM
The traditional folders in Norway are very obscure. I only know of one, and most Norwegians would not recognize that as a Norwegian knife. (They are not produced and only exists as historical knives. https://kniver.blogspot.no/search/label/Junger They were used at mealtime.)

The new Helle folders are not traditional in any meaning of the word.

In other words, you have all the entries you need for Norway already. :D
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: pfrsantos on August 23, 2017, 01:25:29 PM
The print screens.


We might build something big here, with pics and all, for reference.

Like a KnifeWiki?...

 :dd: :dd:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 23, 2017, 01:25:52 PM
These Junges are very pretty. I might add them, for historical reasons.


He mentions 3 types, or the 3rd is a general term? I see a wide blade and a narrow blade variation.



1. Nordfjord-junge (Vestlandsjunger, Hornindal-jung)
2.  Sunnfjord-junge
3. Trønderjunge?
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 23, 2017, 01:26:52 PM
The print screens.


We might build something big here, with pics and all, for reference.

Like a KnifeWiki?...

 :dd: :dd:


Why not? To infinity and beyond!
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: pfrsantos on August 23, 2017, 03:17:20 PM
The print screens.


We might build something big here, with pics and all, for reference.

Like a KnifeWiki?...

 :dd: :dd:


Why not? To infinity and beyond!

(https://babblingbrookesblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/challenge-accepted.jpg)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Steinar on August 23, 2017, 04:07:41 PM
These Junges are very pretty. I might add them, for historical reasons.


He mentions 3 types, or the 3rd is a general term? I see a wide blade and a narrow blade variation.



1. Nordfjord-junge (Vestlandsjunger, Hornindal-jung)
2.  Sunnfjord-junge
3. Trønderjunge?

All of those are landscapes or areas in Norway, so it is junge-knives as they were made and used in those parts of the country. I think the classification, as with anything where there is tradition, but no standardization per se, would end up pretty complicated.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 23, 2017, 06:10:31 PM
I already invested some time on this and I think that it deserves to be continued up to whatever point. Even if we eventually will be having a low level of info, it will be better than what now exists. The data could act as a compass and help individuals, like newcomer collectors, enthusiasts etc.

All I need is that people here might provide data about their country's traditional folders that aren't already included.


There were up to 300 German states during some historical points (and rarely less than 70). I don't believe that all they got is the Mercator. The Latin states, which were less divided (up to 20 regions or states for each, after 1453, but 18th century would be our limit I guess), have a very nice diversity, as you can see. I supose that farmers, herders, hunters and fishers in Branderburg, Saxony, Thouringia, Westphalia etc would have different designs, influenced by the French, the Alpines, the Polls, the Skandinavians etc.


So, come on. Make a presentation of your local traditional knives, for all to enjoy.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: AimlessWanderer on August 23, 2017, 07:39:13 PM
Here's a few links to details of stuff still available from Sheffield makers. It covers patterns you've already identified on your list, plus the full range of different pruners (Ettrick, peach pruner, full pruner), and such as pen knives (double ended sleeveboard style), sailing knives, pipe smoker knife, barlow variations .... blah, blah, blah  :D

https://www.eggintongroup.co.uk/brands/george-wostenholm.html
https://www.eggintongroup.co.uk/brands/ibberson.html
https://www.eggintongroup.co.uk/brands/joseph-rodgers.html
http://taylors-eye-witness.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/pocket-knives-2016.pdf
http://www.penknives-and-scissors.co.uk/acatalog/Pen_and_pocket_knives.html
http://sheffield-made.com/acatalog/Pocket_Knives.html

There were a lot of other styles in the past, but they're long gone now
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 23, 2017, 08:13:23 PM
Thank you!


I see sheepfoot is lambfoot on this side of the Atlantic (although it looks like a hybrid with Warncliffe).
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: AimlessWanderer on August 23, 2017, 08:25:16 PM
Sheepsfoot is parallel, whereas the Lambsfoot tapers - kind of a hybrid of the Sheepsfoot and Wharncliffe. The farmers knives, military clasp knives, and some sailing/rope knives tend to be sheepsfoot
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 23, 2017, 08:27:19 PM
Got it.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Ron Who on August 23, 2017, 09:51:14 PM
Here's a few links to details of stuff still available from Sheffield makers. It covers patterns you've already identified on your list, plus the full range of different pruners (Ettrick, peach pruner, full pruner), and such as pen knives (double ended sleeveboard style), sailing knives, pipe smoker knife, barlow variations .... blah, blah, blah  :D

https://www.eggintongroup.co.uk/brands/george-wostenholm.html
https://www.eggintongroup.co.uk/brands/ibberson.html
https://www.eggintongroup.co.uk/brands/joseph-rodgers.html
http://taylors-eye-witness.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/pocket-knives-2016.pdf
http://www.penknives-and-scissors.co.uk/acatalog/Pen_and_pocket_knives.html
http://sheffield-made.com/acatalog/Pocket_Knives.html

There were a lot of other styles in the past, but they're long gone now

 :like:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 24, 2017, 10:24:29 AM
After adding the AngloSaxon designs and updating with many Italian ones, we are up to the number 185!


Please continue the flow of information gentlemen.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 24, 2017, 10:24:52 AM
And the coda...
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: an0nemus on August 24, 2017, 12:15:09 PM
I'm surprised there aren't much Asian knives here.


Does our Balisong qualify in your list, kkokkolis?


(knives not mine)


(http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8tm65Z3gq1qdvvw7o1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 24, 2017, 12:29:15 PM
I'm surprised there aren't much Asian knives here.


Does our Balisong qualify in your list, kkokkolis?


(knives not mine)


(http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8tm65Z3gq1qdvvw7o1_1280.jpg)


Yes, of course. It is original and iconic. Are there different types? It originated in Phillipines or somewhere else? Which are the prominent makers?
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: an0nemus on August 24, 2017, 12:41:39 PM
I'm surprised there aren't much Asian knives here.


Does our Balisong qualify in your list, kkokkolis?


(knives not mine)


(http://68.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l8tm65Z3gq1qdvvw7o1_1280.jpg)


Yes, of course. It is original and iconic. Are there different types? It originated in Phillipines or somewhere else? Which are the prominent makers?


It's embarrassing to admit this, but I know little about this knife's history as I grew up in the South (whereas this was designed in the North) of the Philippines. As far as I know, this originated in our country Here's a quick wiki link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_knife


The prominent makers are still based in a village called Balisong in the province of Batangas in Northern Luzon. The most prominent inside and outside our country is Dado. Here is his FAcebook page

https://www.facebook.com/Onas-Batangas-Blades-135593273128543/
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 24, 2017, 12:51:01 PM
OK. Adding this and some German and Norvegian designs (such as Ankermesser, Jagdtaschenmesser and the Junges) we are at 195. When we reach 200 I'll post the list again.


Thank you!
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: an0nemus on August 24, 2017, 01:25:53 PM
OK. Adding this and some German and Norvegian designs (such as Ankermesser, Jagdtaschenmesser and the Junges) we are at 195. When we reach 200 I'll post the list again.


Thank you!


Welcome! Im glad our knife will be represented in your list  :tu: :like:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: ThePeacent on August 24, 2017, 05:05:28 PM
I see you added one knife from my country, but I'd add another one, the Pallares

made in Solsona, Catalonia, slipjoint, carbon steel or stainless available

Also called "Navalla" (Navaja in Catalan), "Faca" (like in South America and Portugal) or "Trinxell"

 :salute:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: pfrsantos on August 24, 2017, 05:19:16 PM
I see you added one knife from my country, but I'd add another one, the Pallares

made in Solsona, Catalonia, slipjoint, carbon steel or stainless available

Also called "Navalla" (Navaja in Catalan), "Faca" (like in South America and Portugal) or "Trinxell"

 :salute:

In Portugal, we also use the word navalha for folding knives (and straight razors - navalhas de barbear). For us, folding knives can be refered indistinctely as navalhas ou canivetes. Usually, the first term is more "aggressive". The small Palaçoulo and Corta-e-Pica are called canivetes, the Caneças is a navalha.

Faca is used for non-folding, like hunting knives or kitchen knives.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 24, 2017, 06:09:43 PM
Pallares gives me 4 folders

Pocket knife Común
Pocket knife Ripollés
Pocket knife Gabacha
Pocket knife Mallorquina

I like them, they look like proper penny knives, at least as much as the Peasant and Sodbuster and Victorinox Eco.

They also have some more luxury ones.

Busa
Pedraforca
Pirineu
Pastor
Pescador
Pica
Ares
Trabukaire
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: an0nemus on August 25, 2017, 09:57:16 AM
This thread inspired me to get a Balisong 

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170825/b11a9fce09f3f16a380363da8e5e161c.jpg)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Poncho65 on August 26, 2017, 03:37:17 AM
Some very nice work in this thread guys :salute: :like: :like:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 26, 2017, 12:36:39 PM
Major Update. We are up to 234 knife designs.


In fact, everything that can be described as a folder, but not as a tactical, is included, provided I had knowledge of its existence up to this point.


Some designs seem to be variations of others. Nevertheless I included them if they had both different blade AND handle. One might argue for Opinel, Douk-Douk and SAKs that I have only one reference for each, but either the blade has the same shape in different sizes, or the shame basic concept for the handle (sometimes the shape changes to adapt to the blade shape).


Italians lead the course of pocket knife history with 103 designs, with French following with 46. Overall there seems to be a South school (mostly Latin countries with 165 designs) with basic characteristis the use of wood or other organic materials for a handle and simplicity. In Spain there are several designs, but I didn't recognize an established typology, so I classified the knives as variations of the Navaja (and indeed they look like variations).
Then the UK/US designs count 44 combined. There seems to be a Northen school (mostly Germanic and AngloSaxon countries with 61 designs) where one will find the multi layers/blades, the plastic handles (but also organic), the industrial look.
Asians and Africans have a long history of knife making, but mostly on fixed blades it seems. The pocket blade history parallels the history of European and Colonial clothing, with pants, pockets and authority supression of open carry in urban enviroment, therefore the pocket knife value skyrocketed in our countries.
In Greece we followed an AfroAsian culture. People would wear proudly their highly decorated fixed blade knife in their waist, as one can see in traditional clothing of Greece. Recently,with urbanization, pocket knife value got higher and we adopted established designs from Opinel and Victorinox mostly. The same happened around the Balcans, where mainly Bulgaria had a reasonable tradition of pocket knives.


The list isn't full, so I wait for your contributions.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: Zed on August 26, 2017, 12:41:49 PM
Two patterns I like to edc are the stockman and congress ,handy blade selection  :tu:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 26, 2017, 12:46:27 PM
The rest and pics of the way fixed blades were carried here, making pocket knives redundant.


PS: You see 233 knives but there is also the Arbalete by G. David (Thiers).


(http://www.foustanela.gr/plakidas/images/site/foresies/kriti/kritikos/kritikos_01.jpg)
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2758628/thumbs/o-GREEK-COSTUMES-STAMPS-570.jpg)
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2758644/thumbs/o-GREEK-COSTUMES-STAMPS-570.jpg)
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2758686/thumbs/o-GREEK-COSTUMES-STAMPS-570.jpg)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 26, 2017, 10:31:27 PM
I guess that's it for now.
If anyone is interested for the excel file, just ask for it and I'll send it to you, since there is no provision to be posted here.


Thanks guys.


Viva Italia and vive la France for pocket knife lovers also.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: pomsbz on August 27, 2017, 09:17:54 AM
Respect!
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: an0nemus on August 27, 2017, 09:30:35 AM
I guess that's it for now.
If anyone is interested for the excel file, just ask for it and I'll send it to you, since there is no provision to be posted here.


Thanks guys.


Viva Italia and vive la France for pocket knife lovers also.


Thanks for adding the Balisong in the list! I sure would like to have a copy of the excel file. PM sent :)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 27, 2017, 11:25:05 AM
It isn't over until it's over, eternally true.
I classified some types of Navajas and Navalhas, the Barrel knife etc. Now we have 260 designs.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 27, 2017, 11:28:08 AM
I included recent designs that mimic the traditional style and don't have the "tactical" look and features (clip, thumbstud/disk/hole, synthetic scales and exotic steels, liner or framelocks).
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 27, 2017, 07:28:28 PM
It never ends. Added 24 regional French knives, for a total of 70 French and 284 altogether. When I'll reach 300 I'll post the files again.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 28, 2017, 01:30:05 PM
And 300.



Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 28, 2017, 01:31:15 PM
I started with 11 and I thought I had a full list at 25! Now 300 and whole continents are uncovered. I searched for information but there was lack of or language barriers. What about Latin America?
At least, the designs with international market impact are mostly included.

I'm back to work. I must stop but I became fixated on this the last days.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: pfrsantos on August 28, 2017, 04:26:18 PM
I started with 11 and I thought I had a full list at 25! Now 300 and whole continents are uncovered. I searched for information but there was lack of or language barriers. What about Latin America?
At least, the designs with international market impact are mostly included.

I'm back to work. I must stop but I became fixated on this the last days.

I'll try to get some info on the portuguese ones. As soon as I get some text and pics, I'll post it here.

Good work!
 :salute: :tu:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 28, 2017, 08:06:43 PM
Thanks.


I made some attempts to attach pictures, but the file became quickly big and slow. So I deleted them.


I think that once you have the proper name of the blade, it is very easy to Google it and get some pics and more info. What matters most is to know the existence of a knife of a given name. The rest are procedures.

I used the "Blade's Blade's Guide to Knives & Their Values" by Steve Shackleford and Google Translate on non Engligh/French/Italian sites. I would like to read also the "Levine's  Guide to Knives & Their Values" but I don't have a copy. I don't know if it would be helpful. There is more info on Blade's book that could be used.

Jessan suggested I might put a link for the Excel file on Google docs, to share.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: AimlessWanderer on August 28, 2017, 08:40:14 PM
Maybe a thread for each of the countries with associated pics, and index of countries with links to relevant threads in this thread  :pok:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 29, 2017, 02:37:51 PM
Italiani 103, Francais 102, Rest of the World 128, for a total of 333 so far.


And not only I learned a lot about traditional and traditional inspired knives, but I found a knife I was searching for 2-3 years. When I get it I will post, don't ask.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: an0nemus on August 29, 2017, 03:58:20 PM
Yes, I'm suggesting an online version of the file as well like being hosted by Google Doc or Google Sheet so anyone here with a link can contribute?
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: pfrsantos on August 29, 2017, 04:34:28 PM
Italiani 103, Francais 102, Rest of the World 128, for a total of 333 so far.


And not only I learned a lot about traditional and traditional inspired knives, but I found a knife I was searching for 2-3 years. When I get it I will post, don't ask.

So, only half evil, huh?...
 :whistle:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 29, 2017, 11:30:59 PM
Yes, I'm suggesting an online version of the file as well like being hosted by Google Doc or Google Sheet so anyone here with a link can contribute?


I'll do that when I'll reach the limits of my possibilities. Maybe soon.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 30, 2017, 11:23:53 AM

So, only half evil, huh?...
 :whistle:


It was. Now it's 367. Indian, Chinese, German and French knives added.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 31, 2017, 11:57:30 AM
Updated with AngloSaxon designs, count 422.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 31, 2017, 11:58:25 AM
Keep on walking
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 31, 2017, 12:00:29 PM
Aἰὲν ἀριστεύειν.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on August 31, 2017, 02:21:48 PM

And a Google Docs link.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vFo97C4T1quWFIYlvj8LlV5jE56ZEaJTKGRmn6mpZHA/edit?usp=sharing


If anyone has data to add, we'll consider the way to do it.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on September 02, 2017, 09:45:06 AM
I think I should classify Swiss knives also.
The frames of the Classics, the Executives, the Officer's, the (old) Soldier's and the (new) Soldier's knives are different. The Rangers and German Army also. Should I differentiate Vic from Wenger too?
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: an0nemus on September 02, 2017, 06:33:15 PM
I think I should classify Swiss knives also.
The frames of the Classics, the Executives, the Officer's, the (old) Soldier's and the (new) Soldier's knives are different. The Rangers and German Army also. Should I differentiate Vic from Wenger too?


I'd vote to differentiate them as its only recently (historically speaking) that Victorinox absorbed Wenger
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: AimlessWanderer on September 02, 2017, 07:42:53 PM
If you're considering lines/products which are no longer made, how many others that are on the list are like this? I thought you were only looking at stuff that was still in production  :think:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on September 02, 2017, 08:09:47 PM
This isn't a market research. I wanted to see the diversity of traditional folders. The evolution if you like.
Spanish, Portuguese, French and Italians still make all of them, through companies or custom artisans. The same goes for most of the Anglosaxon designs, made in the US, Germany and China. Wengers are still made and sold as Delemonts. Even the Lebanese are still made.
Others were made until recently, in the 20th century, so one might encounter them on ebay and auction sites.

In fact, very few are included that are obscure or ancient.
Still, you may remove the designs you don't like and thus make a different version of the list.
Or inform me about other designs, in order to enrich my version.
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: AimlessWanderer on September 02, 2017, 09:10:12 PM
This isn't a market research. I wanted to see the diversity of traditional folders. The evolution if you like.
Spanish, Portuguese, French and Italians still make all of them, through companies or custom artisans. The same goes for most of the Anglosaxon designs, made in the US, Germany and China. Wengers are still made and sold as Delemonts. Even the Lebanese are still made.
Others were made until recently, in the 20th century, so one might encounter them on ebay and auction sites.

In fact, very few are included that are obscure or ancient.
Still, you may remove the designs you don't like and thus make a different version of the list.
Or inform me about other designs, in order to enrich my version.

If we start looking at the older patterns, it gets a lot more complicated. Here's an example of what I mean, and I can see several missing patterns from those shown there, which I'd have to look at different time periods for. By which I mean things like fruit knives, grape hooks, melon knives, cabbage knives, asparagus knives, swing guards, folding dirks, the various scissor laden knives, lobster pattern and sleeveboard variants, blah blah blah

http://www.bladeforums.com/threads/sheffield-spring-knife-patterns-of-1816.1345975/
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on September 02, 2017, 09:18:44 PM
Nice knives. Some are covered, some influenced others that are included in the list, still produced elsewhere (like swing guards).
What do you suggest? Which ones would you remove?
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: AimlessWanderer on September 02, 2017, 09:44:51 PM
I don't know what to suggest. Your project, and I'm just trying to chuck in what little I know. One of the issues here, is that much of the time, there weren't clearly defined patterns at all. You told them what you wanted, and that's what they made. That's why there were the big exhibition knives, to show off the versatility, and you could literally have whatever design you wanted - you weren't limited to set patterns

(https://www.eggintongroup.co.uk/assets/images/big/Norfolk_Knife_Large.jpg)

(http://www.hawleytoolcollection.com/uploads/images/collection/Year%20Knife%20Close%20Up.jpg)
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on September 02, 2017, 09:56:02 PM
I see a pattern there. Hedgehog knives!
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: AimlessWanderer on September 02, 2017, 10:01:32 PM
 :rofl:
Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on September 04, 2017, 02:29:56 PM
According to Victorinox Catalogs (and minor improvisation inspired from history):


1. (Schweizer) Offiziersmesser/Couteau d’ Officier Suisse, Mittlere/Taille Moyenne

- Kleine (Petit) 84mm (Bäckermesser/Boulanger, Uhrenöffner/Ouvre Montres)
- Evolution 85mm
- Grosse (Grand) 91mm

2. (Schweizer Soldatenmesser/Couteu de l'Armée Suisse) Pioneer

- Pioneer (Alox) 93mm

3. Kleine Taschenmesser/Petit Couteau de Poche Companion

- 58, 65mm & 74mm

4. Grosse Taschenmesser/Grand Couteau de Poche Workman

- 111mm (& older 108mm)

5. Grosse Taschenmesser/Grand Couteau de Poche Ranger & Hunter Pro

- 130mm (& older 120mm)

6. Schweizer Gartenmesser/Couteau de Jardin (Hakenmesser/Serpette, Blumenmesser/Fleuriste, Okuliermesser/Greffoir)




6 chassis types, with variations.


What do you say?

Title: Re: Folding Knives for EDC
Post by: kkokkolis on September 17, 2017, 01:50:59 PM
It is still a work in progress and I don't know where it will end after reading Levine's guide, but I have an updated 459 item version (with some more French, Hungarian and Swiss designs and some corrections, with help form Blade Forums guys) in my signature.