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Tool Talk => Leatherman Tools => Topic started by: Ryan78matin on September 27, 2017, 06:17:39 PM

Title: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 27, 2017, 06:17:39 PM
 Hi.  Names Ryan and I'm new here.  I joined after being excited to finally get my first new Leatherman Surge.  I had a gift card and ordered it from Amazon.  After the 2 day shipping wait i opened it with much excitement and anticipation.... it was short lived.  The inside the handle tools just flopped out, the end caps that are held in place with the security torx were loose, and the worst was one side of the handle doesn't "click" into place so when you close the pliers onto something once you try to open it the handle folds out before the pliers open. 

I wasn't too upset as one of the reasons i decided on leatherman was the 25yr warranty and the good reviews on said warranty. Unfortunately after emailing leatherman my response was "sorry you're disappointed in your purchase but since you bought this from Amazon and not leatherman directly you'll need contact the seller for any refund or replacement."

Buyer beware. No where was it stated that Amazon wasn't a authorized dealer or that it would null the warranty. Extremely unsatisfied. I can't even use it out of the box with the pliers issue.  Lesson learned.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Zhenchok on September 27, 2017, 06:23:55 PM
Maybe you should contact Amazon 800 number, sounds like you could have received a knock off.  Unless, ofcourse,  it was shipped and sold directly from Amazon.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: hiraethus on September 27, 2017, 06:24:19 PM
And what did Amazon say?  I must say I've always been impressed with Amazon's (UK) customer service.

Welcome to the forum BTW. :cheers:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: LoopCutter on September 27, 2017, 06:31:30 PM
Where are you located?

Amazon should be your first point for replacement.  It is most likely your tool had been tampered with causing the loose torx screws.  You did say box packaging correct?
That would be the seller’s issue. 

If a clamshell and sealed then that is on LM. 

Sorry to learn that after waiting the toy was broken.  I hope you can get it worked out. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on September 27, 2017, 06:34:28 PM
Yes, the retailer would be my first point of call to gripe to as well.

However, it's silly when you think about it. You have to gripe to Amazon, and they have to put it right. They sold you a defective product after all, but then they have to approach their supplier (probably the factory, but in some parts of the world it would be a regional agent) and get a resolution, and so on down the line until it gets to the source. In some ways it would be a lot more efficient overall to deal direct with the producer - and if they can't keep up with returns, then maybe they should stop letting crap get out of the door  :whistle: However, the real world never works like that, so get in touch with Amazon, they'll put it right, and they'll have the problem of sorting out who is going to make up for their defecit.  :cheers:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 27, 2017, 06:35:51 PM
I hope not a knockoff! It was offered with the prime so I assume it's from Amazon directly.  It came in the Leatherman box with the instructions, sheath, and 25yr warranty card.  I tried to post a picture but it said the file size was to large. My phone camera is on its smallest size option.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 27, 2017, 06:41:00 PM
 I'm in the US. Packaging was all legit (looking)  brand new from leatherman.  I just don't understand what it would matter where I bought it.  I didn't think their warranty was conditional.  I emailed them you ask if there was anywhere local to me to have it repaired instead of sending it and waiting again.  I suppose I should have just filled the form and sent it off. Amazon would not let me post the negative review even though it didn't violate and terms. It wasn't belligerent or scathing. I only voiced my problems with the tool and that to be aware leatherman will not honor their warranty if you buy this from Amazon and to try to order from Leatherman if possible.  I would have myself but I had an Amazon gift card for the purchase.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Yontz on September 27, 2017, 06:51:31 PM
Mine is coming today. Also bought from Amazon. Now I am feeling worried!
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: LoopCutter on September 27, 2017, 06:52:48 PM
Yes, just filling out the warranty form and sending it in would have been the simplest approach. Sometimes to much info and asking politely does not gather the results sought.

On the other hand, I own many LM tools, multiples of many, and never ever have I  received any that were loose as you described. 

I do have tamper torx bits and would resolved myself, (Home Depot and Lowes).  Other LM tools require a special wrench. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 27, 2017, 07:04:06 PM
Amazon only offered for me to return it for a refund. I'll be doing so but after no further response from Leatherman I won't be re-ordering a new Leatherman. I just wanted it repaired nothing extra or my money back. Just left too bad of a taste in my mouth.  My suggestion would to be to order from Leatherman directly if possible... or I guess just fill out the form omitting any info of where you purchased it. They lost what, I thought,  was going to be a lifetime customer.  All the luck with your multitool gentlemen.  I hope all goes well with yours.

Ryan
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on September 27, 2017, 07:11:37 PM
Amazon only offered for me to return it for a refund. I'll be doing so but after no further response from Leatherman I won't be re-ordering a new Leatherman. I just wanted it repaired nothing extra or my money back. Just left too bad of a taste in my mouth.  My suggestion would to be to order from Leatherman directly if possible... or I guess just fill out the form omitting any info of where you purchased it. They lost what, I thought,  was going to be a lifetime customer.  All the luck with your multitool gentlemen.  I hope all goes well with yours.

Ryan

Let us know which tool you choose to get instead, and how you get on with it. If you need sugesstions to help you choose, the members here will be happy to assist  :cheers:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: captain spaulding on September 27, 2017, 07:17:00 PM
This is becoming more and more common as of late. Leathermans customer service used to be the end all be all, but since they have hired new people it seems their customer service has gone out the window. Couple that with the drop in quality control and the increase in price and you have yourself a company that people no longer trust or care to buy from. Nice one Leatherman. Keep dissapointing the customers that pay your bills.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 27, 2017, 07:17:58 PM
I appreciate it but it won't be a leatherman unfortunately. But any suggestions on a full size heavy duty multitool LIKE the surge would be great! It would need to see everyday full use of most of the tools.  I'm an aerospace fabricator by trade. I liked the Surge pliers head option with the replaceable wire cutting blades. And the needle nose with regular pliers combo
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: captain spaulding on September 27, 2017, 07:19:57 PM
I would say go for the Swisstool but it may not meet all your requirements. I can tell you, you won't have any of the quality control issues you did with Leatherman though.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 27, 2017, 07:21:46 PM
Also thanks for all the kind responses and feed back. This is a very welcoming forum. It truly is sad about their customer service. I bought it new in the box. Nowhere was it stated they wouldn't honor the warranty even though it was HEAVILY advertised.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 27, 2017, 08:00:45 PM
 If I can I'll post the link to a YouTube video I made showing the defective tool.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: ThundahBeagle on September 27, 2017, 08:03:46 PM
Hi Ryan and welcome.

Hello to everyone else as well. Maybe we should hold on a second and think through this and get a little more info before we start knocking the customer service ...

As many of us have, I have purchased Leathermans from Amazon before, including recently. Amazon has ONE authorized Leatherman dealer, and they are called NetRush. That seems to me that NetRush is therefore Leatherman' s authorized distributor. Just as in another country, perhaps the agreement between them is such that they must be first point of contact for these issues. I just purchased a new Rebar (already have a Surge- great choice by the way, Ryan) and along with it I received a postcard detailing how to get in touch with NetRush. The "new" ones come from NetRush, but Amazon Sellers such as AustinSchoolHouse sometimes have new old stock Leathermans up for sale, technically second hand but boxed.

Ryan, was this order handled through NetRush? Or another party selling on Amazon?

If the answer is NetRush, going through Amazon/ NetRush May get you that replacement Surge but even faster than the folks in Oregon could have done. Check, my Rebar had been warehoused right in my city.

Aside from that, yes, I agree with LoopCutter, sometimes  is more. Filling out the warrantee card would have gotten you what you want, just possibly slower.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: ThundahBeagle on September 27, 2017, 08:08:23 PM
If you went through NetRush,I would give them the chance to make it right, personally. You could have the replacement sooner.

If you went through a different Amazon seller, hand the thing to a trusted friend and have them handle the warranted repair for you (as I imagine your name is already logged with Leatherman for this issue,and they might reroute you through Amazon again, knowing it was you?)
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 27, 2017, 08:11:15 PM
Yes I used net rush. Leatherman quit responding and netrush never did.

https://youtu.be/UWrla7wxp5o
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: ThundahBeagle on September 27, 2017, 08:16:08 PM
I personally don't think there is a better tool out there overall. If you don't mind a little weight, or if you are using it in lieu of a full Roosevelt, this is the one for you. No other Leatherman is as big, strong, heavy, versatile,or has as many tools.

The best of Leatherman is saying a lot
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: ThundahBeagle on September 27, 2017, 08:17:22 PM
Yes I used net rush. Leatherman quit responding and netrush never did.

https://youtu.be/UWrla7wxp5o

Y-yikes! Sorry to hear that. I am surprised.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on September 27, 2017, 08:33:08 PM
One fault on a tool is maybe understandable, despite manufacturers best efforts, glitches do sneak out occasionally. That's a real clustersmurf of a tool though  :facepalm: Their lack of helpfulness certainly doesn't help matters either, but I consider that less of an issue than how tools escape the factory with multiple flaws.

I'd get the refund offered by Amazon, then either buy from a bricks and mortars store where you can actually try before you buy, or simply give them what they deserve, and take your business elsewhere  :salute:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 27, 2017, 10:34:33 PM
Okay,  after no responses from Leatherman or net rush I sent a final email to net rush politely telling them I was disappointed and the link to the video to show the defects.  I received a prompt response that they would like to send a return postage and send me a new Leatherman surge upon  delivery of the defected one. 

So happy to say that even though Leatherman was less than helpful the seller will replace it.  That's more than good enough for me. I'm excited to get my Surge.  Thanks for all your advice and comments.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on September 27, 2017, 10:36:04 PM
:2tu: Keep us informed, Ryan  :cheers:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: SteveC on September 27, 2017, 10:58:15 PM
Hi.  Names Ryan and I'm new here.  I joined after being excited to finally get my first new Leatherman Surge.  I had a gift card and ordered it from Amazon.  After the 2 day shipping wait i opened it with much excitement and anticipation.... it was short lived.  The inside the handle tools just flopped out, the end caps that are held in place with the security torx were loose, and the worst was one side of the handle doesn't "click" into place so when you close the pliers onto something once you try to open it the handle folds out before the pliers open. 

I wasn't too upset as one of the reasons i decided on leatherman was the 25yr warranty and the good reviews on said warranty. Unfortunately after emailing leatherman my response was "sorry you're disappointed in your purchase but since you bought this from Amazon and not leatherman directly you'll need contact the seller for any refund or replacement."

Buyer beware. No where was it stated that Amazon wasn't a authorized dealer or that it would null the warranty. Extremely unsatisfied. I can't even use it out of the box with the pliers issue.  Lesson learned.

Glad to hear that it getting sorted out.   :cheers:

I thinking that Leatherman wanted you to go through the seller for a "return or replacement" since they didn't sell you the tool.    I do think they will honor the warranty of your Surge . They honor the warranty on second hand tools so I can't imagine they won't honor a warranty just because it was bought on Amazon.


I also think they could have been more helpful though and maybe explained it better.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on September 27, 2017, 11:23:07 PM
It's quite sad that this kind of thing happens all too often these last years ...

When I buy a new Leatherman these days, the first thing I do is take out my security torx set and tighten or loosen up the torx screws on the handles and/or plierhead, one time they are so loose the tools will drop out, the other time the are so tight you can't get them out, but they are almost never perfect (years ago a Leatherman would be perfect when it came out of its box, these days ...  ::)).

Come on Leatherman, do something about this  :pok: :pok: :pok:.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: kaput on September 28, 2017, 12:22:56 AM
Leathermans not responsible for refunding the money to you with it being purchased through Amazon. Contact Amazon.

It is odd they won't service it for you?  :think: Most members here or threads I've read have had excellent customer service from Leatherman. Myself included.

Maybe I'm missing a piece of the puzzle  :whistle:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: kaput on September 28, 2017, 12:31:59 AM
Yikes. And you made a YouTube video in part to discredit Leatherman products...  ??? >:(

I agree that the quality control could have been better on that tool, but it happens, unfortunately to you, but it happens across the board no matter the product or company.

To me it looked like Leatherman gave you correct information to either get a refund or a exchange. Why service a day old tool? Dosent make sense. And Amazon will stand by their service as well, maybe you jumped the gun a bit. Sorry your first experience was this, but try and have some faith. Good luck
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: ThundahBeagle on September 28, 2017, 12:39:28 AM
Hi.  Names Ryan and I'm new here.  I joined after being excited to finally get my first new Leatherman Surge.  I had a gift card and ordered it from Amazon.  After the 2 day shipping wait i opened it with much excitement and anticipation.... it was short lived.  The inside the handle tools just flopped out, the end caps that are held in place with the security torx were loose, and the worst was one side of the handle doesn't "click" into place so when you close the pliers onto something once you try to open it the handle folds out before the pliers open. 

I wasn't too upset as one of the reasons i decided on leatherman was the 25yr warranty and the good reviews on said warranty. Unfortunately after emailing leatherman my response was "sorry you're disappointed in your purchase but since you bought this from Amazon and not leatherman directly you'll need contact the seller for any refund or replacement."

Buyer beware. No where was it stated that Amazon wasn't a authorized dealer or that it would null the warranty. Extremely unsatisfied. I can't even use it out of the box with the pliers issue.  Lesson learned.

Glad to hear that it getting sorted out.   :cheers:

I thinking that Leatherman wanted you to go through the seller for a "return or replacement" since they didn't sell you the tool.    I do think they will honor the warranty of your Surge . They honor the warranty on second hand tools so I can't imagine they won't honor a warranty just because it was bought on Amazon.


I also think they could have been more helpful though and maybe explained it better.

As I was attempting (perhaps poorly) to point out, and as SteveC stated more succinctly, I think we may have confused bad customer service vs Leatherman wanting the issue routed through NetRush, as the dedicated Amazon distributor. And we as a society have become used to getting lightning fast replies, which frankly is not necessarily normal.

Ryan - I am glad you got this all sorted out and that a replacement Surge is on its way. With a quality tool in-hand, I'm sure you will be more than pleased.

50 - I think you make the best point to the root cause and effect. None of this had to happen if someone was alert at the switch in Oregon the day that Surge was assembled.

Although...

When my FFP boxed (not blister pack) Rebar arrived, I noticed there it was. Just in  folded closed box. No heat-sealed plastic bag. Not even an oil infused sealed paper bag like handcuffs or other metal items came in in older days. Just a box that anyone along th line could have opened, played with the tool, returned it and then closed. I thought that interesting
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Poncho65 on September 28, 2017, 12:42:28 AM
I was going to suggest putting your video on Facebook to see if you could get a response but seems it done the job and got the sellers attention :cheers: Glad they are fixing the problem but not happy about the response you got from LM at all :rant: I have been fortunate that the last two tools I have bought new, a BO Rebar (which I did adjust to my liking) and a Surge didn't have any of your problems :facepalm: All the old tools that I have bought NIB were always perfect and this is just disappointing :-\
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: ThundahBeagle on September 28, 2017, 12:45:02 AM
Hi Ryan and welcome.

Hello to everyone else as well. Maybe we should hold on a second and think through this and get a little more info before we start knocking the customer service ...

As many of us have, I have purchased Leathermans from Amazon before, including recently. Amazon has ONE authorized Leatherman dealer, and they are called NetRush. That seems to me that NetRush is therefore Leatherman' s authorized distributor.


As I wanted to point out...
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Wallace72 on September 28, 2017, 12:47:06 AM
Sadly every leatherman I have bought has been worse than the one before it. Even though I like the Surge's platform, I bought mine new in a clamshell with a very warped serrated blade, fairly loose caps, and very tight internal tools where I could only extract them with another pair of pliers. Extremely well designed tools but definitely not the quality standards that they used to have.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Poncho65 on September 28, 2017, 12:51:56 AM
I am a big LM supporter but if you buy a LM that is still in the box (they are the ones that package them that way) and all the paperwork is there and the tool looks new then LM should take care of their tools no matter where it was purchased :shrug:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: ThundahBeagle on September 28, 2017, 12:54:51 AM
Wow, Wallace

I am learning that I should count myself fortunate. Of the 8 Leathermans that I own, I have issues with a solid none. Then again, only one of them is a "new fangled outside opening blade-type." That'd be the Surge, which I bought used this summer, having met the owner and handled the Surge before buying.

All hail the old-school Leatherman inboard tool quality!
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: kaput on September 28, 2017, 12:55:18 AM
I am a big LM supporter but if you buy a LM that is still in the box (they are the ones that package them that way) and all the paperwork is there and the tool looks new then LM should take care of their tools no matter where it was purchased :shrug:

Read my prior response. There has to be a piece missing, like he wanted an exchange or money back. Which he could do both. Just needs to navigate the proper avenues.

In fact. Did Leatherman say they wouldn't service it, or did they just send him down the proper chain of command?  :think:

Also to the OP, what did you wipe down the surge with to make the BO react in such way?
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: ThundahBeagle on September 28, 2017, 01:06:19 AM


Poncho, I am with you, however, just as there is a distributor in Denmark, who those folks must go through first, NetRush is the "country of Amazon" distributor. NetRush and Amazon are buying enough tools to make sure there is a supply in a warehouse in every major city and many secondary cities. This probably means that Amazon/ NetRush can get a replacement in-hand on a brand new defect before your warrantee package even arrives in Oregon.

I think, if followed, they want this system to actually help much faster those who get a new but defective tool. I think they believe that this is faster resolution and thus better customer service.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Poncho65 on September 28, 2017, 01:17:17 AM
I agree Amazon is a great place to buy things and it would probably be quicker to go through them but if I choose to just go to LM USA (just as anyone in the world has the option to do) over them then they should honor the warranty and I feel that they should keep in touch with people to make sure that their dealers are taking care of their customers as well :salute:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: ThundahBeagle on September 28, 2017, 01:25:47 AM
Yes, Poncho. However, people who become distributors are privileged but also have a contractual obligation to make these issues right first, and in a reasonable amount of time. If I read this right, Leatherman directed Ryan to Amazon NetRush as the distributor, who actually has been given more clout to make this more right, and more quickly, than anyone on earth. I'm sure they would rather NetRush get a new tool to Ryan in a day or two, and receive Ryan's defect back to them as part of some routine bulk return shipment from NetRush.

-Ryan- out of curiosity, what day did the tool arrive and get opened? How long was the time between the initial contacts and the responses?
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on September 28, 2017, 04:51:39 AM
Wow, Wallace

I am learning that I should count myself fortunate. Of the 8 Leathermans that I own, I have issues with a solid none. Then again, only one of them is a "new fangled outside opening blade-type." That'd be the Surge, which I bought used this summer, having met the owner and handled the Surge before buying.

All hail the old-school Leatherman inboard tool quality!

I have been known to be quite scathing of the brand on occasion  :whistle: That's partially because of the "bad luck" I've had with them. I didn't get a well made tool until the third LM tool I got (glutton for punishment  ::)) and have had poorly made tools from them since. (Purely on quality issues, not considering what I deem to be poor design decisions on a lot of their tools)
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: gerleatherberman on September 28, 2017, 05:06:51 AM
Something is wrong. I don't know who or what you contacted, but everytime I have contacted Leatherman, they have been courteous,  quick, and helpful. Never have they said the tools I got from Amazon weren't covered. I have sent two in this years. A Wave I broke the file on, and an OHT. The OHT came back with a new pliar head. The wave came back with a new pliar head, new plain blade,  new serrated blade, new scissora and new bits in the holders. I only sent it for a file. They pimped it out. All new goodies in my well worn handles.

So, this all seems wierd that you guys are having trouble with LM. They did not ask me where I bought mine or when. Just told me where to go on their website to print a return form and find their address. I even called when I got my Wave back to thank them for being an awesome company. Not once did they ever ask for any proof I bought it from a store or amazon.

Also, I have bought ten brand new LMs this year alone and have not had a single one show up or come out of the package with those kinds if glaring defects. Most issue I had was slightly loose screws on a backup Wave, which are simple as salt to tighten. You need to have two T10 center drilled torx bits to do proper maintenance anyway.

Sorry to write a book here, but the claims of poor customer service do not seem to be normal at all.

Edit: Sorry kaput. I missed your responses! You're right, something is missing in the story here. :cheers:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on September 28, 2017, 06:23:26 AM


Edit: Sorry kaput. I missed your responses! You're right, something is missing in the story here. :cheers:

GLBM, kaput, and anyone else who thinks this is out of character - unfortunately not everyone has had your positive experiences.

There was another thread lately discussing something else where several members commented on the trend in the decline. I think the discussion was about the Micra, but strayed to other stuff. I will fully accept that I seem to have had worse luck than most, but plenty of others on this forum seem to have been disappointed too. I once wrote to LM USA explaining there were several thing that I was unhappy with, and directing them to a thread here where I explained the issues in even greater depth. I got a response back to the effect of "So what exactly is wrong with it?". At that point I gave up.  ::)

I have had better luck getting stuff replaced at Whitby UK with early breakages, but have given up with such as the Style PS scissors, as it's not worth me paying the postage, as the replacement will only break shortly after anyway. Unfortunately this thread does not surprise me, and our new member has been more reserved and measured than I have been in the past (although I have been left disappointed with the brand far more often than Ryan has). I agree that Amazon is the right commercial route to take, but it does sound like Ryan could have been informed of this in a better way, and that still doesn't detract that this is not a singularly flawed tool. One flaw is understandable, it happens with all manufacturers occasionally, but this is a real mess.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: captain spaulding on September 28, 2017, 06:29:35 AM
You know what I did not think about it but I have sent many tools to Leatherman for warranty and never once been asked where I purchased the tool. Something does sound strange. If this warranty was done in the USA I do not see them asking where it was purchased. If it was done outside the USA then that may be a diffent story completely.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: gerleatherberman on September 28, 2017, 06:39:58 AM


Edit: Sorry kaput. I missed your responses! You're right, something is missing in the story here. :cheers:

GLBM, kaput, and anyone else who thinks this is out of character - unfortunately not everyone has had your positive experiences.
Thank you for the detailed reply. I do accept that companies do suffer when trying to save money. And LM definitely has! The OHT was sent in, because the pliar tips did not meet up from the factory. Serious QC issue. Much much much worse than loose/tight screws that can be tightened in a minute at home. I could not fix the pliar joint. Should we need to tighten/loosen the screws when we buy it? Heck no, but preference makes perfect subjective. But, from what I can tell, LM doesn't have any worse customer service or QC than others. The least satisfied people are the only ones that usually speak out. This creates an exaggerated sense that something is worse than it is. LM is one of the biggest of the big pliar based MT companies, so their .5 percent of dissatisfied customers seem like more than others in the same industry.
Just my 2 cents. :cheers:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on September 28, 2017, 06:44:06 AM
You know what I did not think about it but I have sent many tools to Leatherman for warranty and never once been asked where I purchased the tool. Something does sound strange. If this warranty was done in the USA I do not see them asking where it was purchased. If it was done outside the USA then that may be a diffent story completely.

Cap'n, Ryan didn't specifically say he was asked (from what I can see), he may have mentioned that to them in his first communication. He just says they replied "because you bought it from Amazon ...."
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on September 28, 2017, 06:47:01 AM


Edit: Sorry kaput. I missed your responses! You're right, something is missing in the story here. :cheers:

GLBM, kaput, and anyone else who thinks this is out of character - unfortunately not everyone has had your positive experiences.
Thank you for the detailed reply. I do accept that companies do suffer when trying to save money. And LM definitely has! The OHT was sent in, because the pliar tips did not meet up from the factory. Serious QC issue. Much much much worse than loose/tight screws that can be tightened in a minute at home. I could not fix the pliar joint. Should we need to tighten/loosen the screws when we buy it? Heck no, but preference makes perfect subjective. But, from what I can tell, LM doesn't have any worse customer service or QC than others. The least satisfied people are the only ones that usually speak out. This creates an exaggerated sense that something is worse than it is. LM is one of the biggest of the big pliar based MT companies, so their .5 percent of dissatisfied customers seem like more than others in the same industry.
Just my 2 cents. :cheers:

Point taken  :cheers: My standpoint is a little biased because I have personally had a high percentage of disappointments from them  :salute:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: gerleatherberman on September 28, 2017, 06:56:57 AM


Edit: Sorry kaput. I missed your responses! You're right, something is missing in the story here. :cheers:

GLBM, kaput, and anyone else who thinks this is out of character - unfortunately not everyone has had your positive experiences.
Thank you for the detailed reply. I do accept that companies do suffer when trying to save money. And LM definitely has! The OHT was sent in, because the pliar tips did not meet up from the factory. Serious QC issue. Much much much worse than loose/tight screws that can be tightened in a minute at home. I could not fix the pliar joint. Should we need to tighten/loosen the screws when we buy it? Heck no, but preference makes perfect subjective. But, from what I can tell, LM doesn't have any worse customer service or QC than others. The least satisfied people are the only ones that usually speak out. This creates an exaggerated sense that something is worse than it is. LM is one of the biggest of the big pliar based MT companies, so their .5 percent of dissatisfied customers seem like more than others in the same industry.
Just my 2 cents. :cheers:

Point taken  :cheers: My standpoint is a little biased because I have personally had a high percentage of disappointments from them  :salute:

Perhaps your LM luck will change at some point! I know I'd be sour on a brand that I received multiple defects from! I do know one thing though, LM would be wise to interact more with people who really use their tools and talk about/collect them. They should have a representative reading the threads here on MT.O. I work at an antique store as a furniture speSmurfpillst and keep an eye on new ideas and opinions on techniques/products to improve my work. If Leatherman would keep an eye on this stuff, they could really increase their appeal and products. ALSO, LM needs to hire people who actually use/like/collect MTs to do the QC checks.  :)
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on September 28, 2017, 07:04:15 AM
Oh, Leatherman reads these boards alright.  :D There's a few of their tool offerings that have been heavily influenced by stuff posted here  ;)
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: kaput on September 28, 2017, 07:05:44 AM


Edit: Sorry kaput. I missed your responses! You're right, something is missing in the story here. :cheers:

GLBM, kaput, and anyone else who thinks this is out of character - unfortunately not everyone has had your positive experiences.

There was another thread lately discussing something else where several members commented on the trend in the decline. I think the discussion was about the Micra, but strayed to other stuff. I will fully accept that I seem to have had worse luck than most, but plenty of others on this forum seem to have been disappointed too. I once wrote to LM USA explaining there were several thing that I was unhappy with, and directing them to a thread here where I explained the issues in even greater depth. I got a response back to the effect of "So what exactly is wrong with it?". At that point I gave up.  ::)

I have had better luck getting stuff replaced at Whitby UK with early breakages, but have given up with such as the Style PS scissors, as it's not worth me paying the postage, as the replacement will only break shortly after anyway. Unfortunately this thread does not surprise me, and our new member has been more reserved and measured than I have been in the past (although I have been left disappointed with the brand far more often than Ryan has). I agree that Amazon is the right commercial route to take, but it does sound like Ryan could have been informed of this in a better way, and that still doesn't detract that this is not a singularly flawed tool. One flaw is understandable, it happens with all manufacturers occasionally, but this is a real mess.
Unfortunately almost all companies that I once knew when I was a kid has had a decline in quality and service, across the board. It's a sad sign of the times. Times are different. And although that may at first sound like a cop out, I have had above board service and will continue my relationship with Leatherman with confidence!!

Not to pick this poor guy apart, and we all want him to have a functioning tool sooner than later. He handled it incorrectly. As many others have stated, Leatherman dosent ask when or where the units where purchased from, their warranty is so good you can find a old broken Leatherman on the side of the road and get it replaced, REPLACED, by the latest in greatest... that is if you can do it it within the time constraints, of 25 YEARS!!!

It's obvious he was fishing to have his money refunded back to him by Leatherman, not the distribution channel that happily accepted (and will right the wrong) his money.. I can understand paying hard earned cash for a tool and needing that tool to be a 100% functional.

Honestly, although it shouldn't have left the factory in that state. It would have been a 2 minute fix for anyone with a security torx (or 2  ;)) both the tools being loose, the bottom cap, and the pliers and handle all is a easy fix.

Also, 50, nowadays you tend to hear more complaints than recognition in general nowadays, ask anyone in a service industry or customer service of any kind... the squeaky wheel type a deal ya know?  :-\


Does no one else still find it strange that the black Oxide just so happened to "wipe off" the handle in that fashion? I've wiped down Black Oxide tools and never ever seen that before :whistle:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: gerleatherberman on September 28, 2017, 07:19:31 AM
Oh, Leatherman reads these boards alright.  :D There's a few of their tool offerings that have been heavily influenced by stuff posted here  ;)
I was kind of referring to their QC department. Their "R&D" team trolls the knife sites like flies on poop. :rant:
I want to tell the R&D that a good idea does not mean a good product!

ARE YOU LISTENING LM?
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on September 28, 2017, 07:25:31 AM


Edit: Sorry kaput. I missed your responses! You're right, something is missing in the story here. :cheers:

GLBM, kaput, and anyone else who thinks this is out of character - unfortunately not everyone has had your positive experiences.

There was another thread lately discussing something else where several members commented on the trend in the decline. I think the discussion was about the Micra, but strayed to other stuff. I will fully accept that I seem to have had worse luck than most, but plenty of others on this forum seem to have been disappointed too. I once wrote to LM USA explaining there were several thing that I was unhappy with, and directing them to a thread here where I explained the issues in even greater depth. I got a response back to the effect of "So what exactly is wrong with it?". At that point I gave up.  ::)

I have had better luck getting stuff replaced at Whitby UK with early breakages, but have given up with such as the Style PS scissors, as it's not worth me paying the postage, as the replacement will only break shortly after anyway. Unfortunately this thread does not surprise me, and our new member has been more reserved and measured than I have been in the past (although I have been left disappointed with the brand far more often than Ryan has). I agree that Amazon is the right commercial route to take, but it does sound like Ryan could have been informed of this in a better way, and that still doesn't detract that this is not a singularly flawed tool. One flaw is understandable, it happens with all manufacturers occasionally, but this is a real mess.
Unfortunately almost all companies that I once knew when I was a kid has had a decline in quality and service, across the board. It's a sad sign of the times. Times are different. And although that may at first sound like a cop out, I have had above board service and will continue my relationship with Leatherman with confidence!!

Not to pick this poor guy apart, and we all want him to have a functioning tool sooner than later. He handled it incorrectly. As many others have stated, Leatherman dosent ask when or where the units where purchased from, their warranty is so good you can find a old broken Leatherman on the side of the road and get it replaced, REPLACED, by the latest in greatest... that is if you can do it it within the time constraints, of 25 YEARS!!!

It's obvious he was fishing to have his money refunded back to him by Leatherman, not the distribution channel that happily accepted (and will right the wrong) his money.. I can understand paying hard earned cash for a tool and needing that tool to be a 100% functional.

Honestly, although it shouldn't have left the factory in that state. It would have been a 2 minute fix for anyone with a security torx (or 2  ;)) both the tools being loose, the bottom cap, and the pliers and handle all is a easy fix.

Also, 50, nowadays you tend to hear more complaints than recognition in general nowadays, ask anyone in a service industry or customer service of any kind... the squeaky wheel type a deal ya know?  :-\


Does no one else still find it strange that the black Oxide just so happened to "wipe off" the handle in that fashion? I've wiped down Black Oxide tools and never ever seen that before :whistle:

I'm not sure just nipping up the screws will fix it, unless the screws are so loose that they aren't even seated in one side and are just resting on the small thread of the screw. At the pliers end it should be frame tension on the plier head, not screw tension that keeps the arms open. The sheer fact that the pin goes through the two tools either side of the pliers should hold the pin in position, shouldn't it? The other end, yes, maybe  :think:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Gerhard Gerber on September 28, 2017, 12:15:19 PM
One of the local LM resellers used to be the warranty agent, I was a bit surprised, pleasantly, to find out they replaced broken components free of charge, and the whole MT for a small handling fee.

This was early 2006, just bought a Core, and a friend's Wave was almost new due to everything that had been replaced......  :facepalm:

Have to admit, even if the tools were expensive, the warranty model did not seem sustainable to me, considering location.

In the mean time I bought a Skeletool and a Rebar, Skeletool is perfect but the Rebar's handles didn't line out perfectly.

The local warranty arrangement is no more, and quite frankly won't buy a Leatherman if I can't take it out and inspect it, and I won't order it from my friend's shop because then I feel bad refusing it.....like the Rebar.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: gerleatherberman on September 28, 2017, 01:35:43 PM
Well Gerhard,
I have bought $100+ tools from several different brands and can say that handle lineup is a QC disease common in the MT world. It stopped bothering me sometime ago. But, it will be an issue as long as we want to pay less and expect perfection.
MTs costed much more back then, if you adjust for inflation. 
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Don Pablo on September 28, 2017, 01:50:56 PM
Well Gerhard,
I have bought $100+ tools from several different brands and can say that handle lineup is a QC disease common in the MT world. It stopped bothering me sometime ago. But, it will be an issue as long as we want to pay less and expect perfection.
MTs costed much more back then, if you adjust for inflation.
Victorinox is the exception.  :whistle:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: gerleatherberman on September 28, 2017, 02:07:49 PM
Well Gerhard,
I have bought $100+ tools from several different brands and can say that handle lineup is a QC disease common in the MT world. It stopped bothering me sometime ago. But, it will be an issue as long as we want to pay less and expect perfection.
MTs costed much more back then, if you adjust for inflation.
Victorinox is the exception.  :whistle:
I wouldn't say that. I have a couple of Vics that weren't up to some people's impeccable scrutiny. Minor blade play and poorly finished back springs are two issues I have encountered. Just like handle alignment, these aren't serious defects, just QC oversight. My Spirit cam new with the handles not lining up. Couldn't care less really. Misaligned handles don't effect function. I will comment after I start their warranty process for my old explorer.
I was wondering how long until this thread got Sak jacked. :pok:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Don Pablo on September 28, 2017, 02:42:15 PM
Well Gerhard,
I have bought $100+ tools from several different brands and can say that handle lineup is a QC disease common in the MT world. It stopped bothering me sometime ago. But, it will be an issue as long as we want to pay less and expect perfection.
MTs costed much more back then, if you adjust for inflation.
Victorinox is the exception.  :whistle:
I wouldn't say that. I have a couple of Vics that weren't up to some people's impeccable scrutiny. Minor blade play and poorly finished back springs are two issues I have encountered. Just like handle alignment, these aren't serious defects, just QC oversight. My Spirit cam new with the handles not lining up. Couldn't care less really. Misaligned handles don't effect function. I will comment after I start their warranty process for my old explorer.
I was wondering how long until this thread got Sak jacked. :pok:
Technically, I was referring to SAKs, not the SwissTools.  :whistle:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Aloha on September 28, 2017, 05:58:00 PM
Ryan good to hear you are getting it taken care of.  I don't have much to offer other than both LM and Amazon have been amazing in dealing with any issued I've had.   I'd argue that poor communication was the bigger issue.  Not that any of this matters now as you'll have a new tool soon enough.  Don't shy away from LM.  If anything should go wrong with your tool within the 25 years I have no doubt they'll sort you out. 
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on September 28, 2017, 10:08:27 PM
Not to pick this poor guy apart, and we all want him to have a functioning tool sooner than later. He handled it incorrectly. As many others have stated, Leatherman dosent ask when or where the units where purchased from, their warranty is so good you can find a old broken Leatherman on the side of the road and get it replaced, REPLACED, by the latest in greatest... that is if you can do it it within the time constraints, of 25 YEARS!!!

That may be the case in the U.S., but elsewhere people have had different experiences ... Over here, the official Leatherman distributor needs to see proof of purchase to see if it was bought new through one of their dealers, if so, they'll replace it with another tool.  If not, you'll need to pay about 15 Euro to get it replaced, even when you bought it from an official Leatherman dealer in a neighbouring country.  Just saying ...

It's obvious he was fishing to have his money refunded back to him by Leatherman, not the distribution channel that happily accepted (and will right the wrong) his money.. I can understand paying hard earned cash for a tool and needing that tool to be a 100% functional.

I might be wrong, but at first he asked Leatherman " if there was anywhere local to him to have it repaired instead of sending it and waiting again".  But yes, If he wanted his money refunded, he should've contacted amazon, and not Leatherman.

Honestly, although it shouldn't have left the factory in that state. It would have been a 2 minute fix for anyone with a security torx (or 2  ;)) both the tools being loose, the bottom cap, and the pliers and handle all is a easy fix.

Also, 50, nowadays you tend to hear more complaints than recognition in general nowadays, ask anyone in a service industry or customer service of any kind... the squeaky wheel type a deal ya know?  :-\

Easy fix if you have the security torx bits, else it's a pain in the *ss.  And I don't think it's normal that you have to buy 2 sets of security torx bits to fix a brand new (over here: quite expensive) multitool.  And if it's the torx near the plier head that's too loose, it's hard to tighten it just right, so that the tool is not too loose, but you can still easily open the OHO knives.  I've also had to file down the blade security on my BO Wave (the thingy that prevents the OHO blades from opening while using the pliers), because I couldn't open the PE blade even when the tool was closed.

I don't think it's because people are more nitpicky these days.  I can only speak for myself, I bought my first Leatherman back in '94, and my last one (for now  ;)) last month, and I can only determine that the older Leatherman Tools are far superior to the new ones.  If I compare the opening of the OHO knife on one of my Charge ALX's (date codes 08/08) with the opening of the OHO knife on my last Leatherman, the Signal, I can only say that somewhere down the line, something changed ... Maybe, like most companies, Leatherman is cutting costs to make more profit, but it's starting to show in my humble opinion  ::).

Does no one else still find it strange that the black Oxide just so happened to "wipe off" the handle in that fashion? I've wiped down Black Oxide tools and never ever seen that before :whistle:
I've wiped off my BO Surge with a regular dry cloth (just like I did on any other of my BO tools), and the "caps" on the end of the handles look just like the ones on the OP his Surge.

Long story short, my first multitool was a Leatherman Supertool, and I've been a great fan of the brand since then.  But even for a great fan as myself, it's getting hard to "ignore" the signs of a change in quality, and I can only stay "brand loyal" since I've seen and used the early tools.  I can imagine myself stepping away from Leatherman if my BO Wave, or the two Rebars I bought before I got one without a flaw, were the first Leatherman Tools I've bought ...

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: mikekoz on September 28, 2017, 10:08:55 PM
    Sorry to hear you received a bad Leatherman, but Amazon should have been your first  (maybe only) contact for this problem since they sold it to you. Leatherman would not have refunded your money since you did not buy it from them.  I am sure they would have repaired or replaced it for you after Amazon's return policy ran out.  I buy lots of things from Amazon, and they are VERY easy to deal with as far as returns go. You just submit a request for a return, let them know it is defective, then just order the item again. I have never even had to pay for shipping when I sent things back. They will actually refund your money as soon as you ship it back!
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 29, 2017, 01:35:17 PM
Okay....i haven't read through every comment yet but I will.  There has been some new information and in the interest of fairness I'll include it all. 

I contacted Leatherman the first day I received it and saw it defective.  They responded within 7 mins saying they were sorry I was disappointed in my purchase but since I ordered from Amazon I should contact them for "any and all repairs, replacements, and returns ".

I bought through net rush but couldn't find a way to contact them.  Amazon itself offered a refund of my upon recovering the tool.  I wasn't happy with that as I wanted the tool fixed or replaced. I still WANTED the tool.  I emailed Leatherman this and received no response.

I was upset and angry.  I was upset it came new in the box broken.  I was upset that because of this I was going to need to go through many more hoops than just sending it to Leatherman for replacement or repair. I don't particularly care WHEREi bought it.  I bought it new.  Once I contacted Leatherman they should have responded with send it in we'll make it right.  That's how their warranty reads. 

Instead I'm calling and emailing all day and into the next.  I left a bad review on the net rush page about the warranty issue.  No foul language and as polite as I offered it here. Just buyer beware.  Amazon wouldn't let me post it and left only the vaguest reasons.

I then came here to vent and made the video because I couldn't post pictures here.  After that I decided to try and contact the seller one last time before just getting my refund from Amazon.  I included the video this time and then I got an immediate email, followed by a call 10mins later.  They sent me postage to print and will send a new one. 

Now, for the fairness.  After repeated trys to contact Leatherman and then ultimately telling them its sad that they're going to lose what would be a life long customer they finally sent me the following email. Now the only other email I received from them was short, curt, and unhelpful. But after I had finally settled everything with the seller this...

First the first response I gave  Leatherman after the first and only email I got from them , hopefully to show I wasn't being a jerk.

Hello.

Thanks for the quick reply. So just to clear it up Amazon isn't an authorized dealer for your tools? As in the Leatherman warranty isn't valid if not bought directly from leatherman, even though it was clearly stated with the packaging in the tool and the site? Or is the Amazon dealer responsible for leatherman repairs and returns FIRST before continuing onto Leatherman itself? I'm just trying to figure out the route I need to take.  I am disappointed that I saved money I didn't really have thinking I was buying a superior tool, and that new out of the box I need to waste time and money to send it back SOMEWHERE. By time I sort this out (IF it gets sorted out) I'll have much more money invested in this tool than its purchase price without ever being able to use it.

I researched quite heavely before making my decision to go with Leatherman, and the review's especially with the warranty sold it for me. Sadly this isn't the case. As a prototype aerospace fabricator and blue light scan metrologist I thought this would be the best choice for a lifetime tool.  I think I'll be chalking this up as a loss and a lesson and will not be buying or recommending Leatherman in the future. I'm disheartened that, although I'm only a single customer, it's really no sweat off your back that this has happened.  No matter where I purchased your tool. I did not buy it used. If Amazon is not an authorized dealer for your tools it would have been nice if that was stated somewhere.

Thank you for your time,
Ryan Martin

I still wasn't getting and responses and I gave up on them.  I then just a little bit ago received this email. In conclusion I don't think I jumped the gun.  I went through every channel I could to get this fixed and until the video the best offer I got was just a refund of my money from Amazon.  After the video seller is replacing the tool and Leatherman sent this email.  I'm happy with the outcome, but it's sad that if I'd let it be at just an Amazon refund they wouldn't have cared.  But, as I said I'm happy with the outcome and I understand what Leatherman is saying... now.  Wish this email had came FIRST. 

Hello Ryan,

 

We apologize for the disappointing experience you’ve had purchasing the tool through Amazon.   Actually, if there is ever an issue with a new tool the process always has been to direct the customer to exchange the tool where they just purchased it – as that is the store/company that has already taken their money.   We do have some authorized Dealers on Amazon – however, not everyone selling on Amazon is authorized by us to be selling tools.  We have a constant search for unauthorized sellers and shut them down as soon as we can.   Unfortunately, we cannot be responsible for these dealers advertising as if they are truly authorized.  That is why we do all we can to track them down quickly.

 

If the seller of your tool is truly an Authorized Dealer they will have no issues with exchanging your tool.  I believe they may even pay for the return shipping to them for new tools with an issue.

 

You are always welcome to send your tool in to our warranty dept. as well.  Our warranty team will either repair the tool sent in or replace it.

 

Please let me know if you find the Amazon dealer you purchased from gives you any problems with exchanging it. We will be happy to take care of it here.

 

Sincerely,

 

Shellee Kennedy

Customer Support

Leatherman Tool Group, Inc.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 29, 2017, 01:45:48 PM
Just to be clear if the above was too long to read or I wasn't clear...i only got the last email from Leatherman after a bunch of unanswered emails to their customer service (the last email grim leatherman is from the lady herself, the first one was from customer service) and finally getting the replacement from Net Rush. Only after sending the video.  I'm no big anybody and I don't have an established YouTube channel.  But I did send it to them. But all said and done I understand what Leatherman is saying and if I had gotten that email the first time or even as a response to my follow up email I would have understood and went through net rush first. 

Thanks for all the help and comments. Ryan
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: gerleatherberman on September 29, 2017, 01:48:05 PM
That last email tone is what I have always received from LM. Amazon sellers are supposed to exchange defective items immediately.

Anyway, glad LM is standing behind their product for you like they have done for me.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 29, 2017, 01:52:18 PM
 also I only wiped down the tool with a dry rag.  The tool WAS completely black out of the box though.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 29, 2017, 01:54:48 PM
 Yes you're right. I just wish I had gotten that response BEFORE the crappy short, unhelpful ones. But, all's well that ends well.  The Leatherman is on it's way back to net rush and I'll update with my new surge!
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 29, 2017, 02:02:41 PM
To clear a couple other comments I saw up here is my original email and Leatherman's only reply until the one I posted  after many attempts of emailing

To whom it may concern.

 

I just received my new surge today (9-26-17) that I had been waiting excitedly for. I bought it from Amazon.  I'm sad to say that upon receiving it, I found that 1. When the pliers are in use, once you close the pliers on something the handle on one side "gives up" and closes before the pliers head opens. This makes one hand operation of the pliers impossible. I need two hands, (one hand on each handle) to open the pliers.  2. (And not as importantly)  the inside the handle tools (can opener, exchangeable bit, flat head screwdrivers etc) are not tight in the handle and almost "fall" out of place.  Finally, 3. The end "caps" on the handles that have the security torx bits are loose.

 

I was extremely excited to finally have saved the money for a leatherman that I've wanted for some time. I'm hoping this is just a fluke and can be corrected.  I'm not concerned that leatherman won't make this right.  I'm curious if there is anywhere local to me I can take it for repair or exchange?  I'm in the metro Detroit area I'm Michigan.  I tried to send a video but it won't allow. But here is the actual tool I received today. Everything else was/ is in good working order. 

 

Thanks for any help in this matter,

Ryan Martin


Hello Ryan,

 

We are very sorry to hear about your disappointment with your tool.  Since it was purchased from Amazon (and not from us directly) and just received from them, we ask that you contact your Amazon dealer and have them exchange it for you.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Customer Service

Leatherman Tool Group

I wasn't upset with this email really either. I understood a chain of command.  I got upset when I couldn't contact the seller or get Leatherman to give me any additional information or contact me again until I posted the video link to them.  Until the video the only resolution i was able to get was a money refund from Amazon proper... and this still dosent address the state of the tool in the first place lol. But,  it's been sorted out finally and Leatherman is going to stand by their product... just took some.... work.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 29, 2017, 02:11:49 PM
I do need to reply to Kaput....i didn't want my money back I wanted a correct tool I spent 100$ for.  I used zero solvents on the oxide.  As far as fixing it?  Yeah, I could go buy some bits and fix it.  Actually I could MAKE this tool from scratch. But I DECIDED to BUY one completed and I expected the craftsmanship to match the price. I don't want to finish somebody else's work. I don't want to act like a secretary and email and call around for two days to get what I paid for.  I don't knock anyone for have no problem fixing what somebody else couldn't bee concerned with doing right but that's not me.  I wasn't trying to get anything extra, only what I bought and expected. That's it. I wasn't rude to them. And I certainly don't appreciate someone assuming that I would lie about the black oxide (which I didn't care about even coming off or mention). Just because you have never had it come off in no way means that it can't. I don't mean to sound rude.  Leatherman has a warranty that they'll send you a great product. That's all I expect.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: SteveC on September 29, 2017, 02:16:49 PM
Thanks for the full explanation   :tu:

That E-mail from Shelley should have been the first response from Leatherman. I hope you are happy with the replacement you get and can move past your initial disappointment with Leatherman   :cheers:

I hope you stick around here as well as this is a great forum.   :salute:

Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on September 29, 2017, 02:30:46 PM
Thanks for the full explanation   :tu:

That E-mail from Shelley should have been the first response from Leatherman. I hope you are happy with the replacement you get and can move past your initial disappointment with Leatherman   :cheers:

I hope you stick around here as well as this is a great forum.   :salute:

+1

On all counts  :cheers:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 29, 2017, 02:47:47 PM
I will be. This is a great forum.  I'll update with my new Surge when it arrives.  I'm happy that even though it took a lot of work Leatherman did finally send the email with information that makes sense and that makes me feel like they'll honor any warranty issues in the future.  Again thanks for all the comments and ideas. Even kuput's even though I disagreed.  I'll definitely enjoy your forum.  Thanks Ryan
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 29, 2017, 03:58:52 PM
I should add something about the black oxide.  While it was no concern to me if it ALL came off here's some info from my years of applying it... cold and hot applications. Through my research of Leatherman's oxide covered tools the biggest complaint I've found is that it comes off for a period.  This is called "Smutting" and it shouldn't happen.  It's from improperly cleaned stainless prior to coating.  It's done much like chrome plating as its immersed in a hot alkali solution (it can be done cold but has less humidity resistance and corrosion concerns). It's then spun with oil, wax, or lacquer. Improper cleaning of the stainless parts prior to being put into the solution causes the oxide to come off irregularly.

I believe Leatherman uses this technique as a cosmetic one rather than functional. If the tool passed the "smut test " you wouldn't get oxide on you from handling. Because it would have been removed in the test.  One good benefit of oxide is the extra lubrication and anti galling effects it has.

Black oxide should only be removable with mechanical sanding or in a solution. I don't believe even acetone should be able to remove properly applied black oxide, but it would be evident in a pronounced smear and if mechanically removed sanding wear would be obvious and evident.

In short if the object you have black oxide coated is done properly the base metal (stainless in this case)  should be free of imperfections or residues and a stable base metal. The oxide should not be removable easily.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: mikekoz on September 29, 2017, 04:20:43 PM
   Great to see you got it all sorted out! I pretty much only order from Amazon when I purchase anything from the internet, and I very rarely have problems. When I have to return an item, for any reason, I never contact the seller. I just submit a request for a refund, print the mailing label, and send it back. If I still want the item, I just order another one. I have never even been asked to pay for shipping to return any item I have purchased. 
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Syph007 on September 29, 2017, 04:52:41 PM
I should add something about the black oxide.  While it was no concern to me if it ALL came off here's some info from my years of applying it... cold and hot applications. Through my research of Leatherman's oxide covered tools the biggest complaint I've found is that it comes off for a period.  This is called "Smutting" and it shouldn't happen.  It's from improperly cleaned stainless prior to coating.  It's done much like chrome plating as its immersed in a hot alkali solution (it can be done cold but has less humidity resistance and corrosion concerns). It's then spun with oil, wax, or lacquer. Improper cleaning of the stainless parts prior to being put into the solution causes the oxide to come off irregularly.

I believe Leatherman uses this technique as a cosmetic one rather than functional. If the tool passed the "smut test " you wouldn't get oxide on you from handling. Because it would have been removed in the test.  One good benefit of oxide is the extra lubrication and anti galling effects it has.

Black oxide should only be removable with mechanical sanding or in a solution. I don't believe even acetone should be able to remove properly applied black oxide, but it would be evident in a pronounced smear and if mechanically removed sanding wear would be obvious and evident.

In short if the object you have black oxide coated is done properly the base metal (stainless in this case)  should be free of imperfections or residues and a stable base metal. The oxide should not be removable easily.

You are correct about black oxide.  Its actually Fe3O4 magnetite which should not dissolve in acetone from what I can recall from chemistry.  I have some old BOd parts I dont need anymore so now I might go check to confirm.  It should take something acidic to dissolve it if properly done.  I know hydrochloric works as the place I used, uses it to clean off the BO.  I bet the surfaces weren't prepped well enough and the BO was just sitting on surface.


Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 29, 2017, 04:56:21 PM
Yeah that was the only option I had in the beginning.  Amazon had no questions.  Just said they'd refund.  I'm just glad i finally got it sorted to get the replacement tool and a reassurance from Leatherman. I mean honestly the only thing they really did wrong (besides the craftsmanship) was be vague then not answer any further emails.  But in the end they delivered... or are anyways.  Once I get my new tool I'll amend my video or take it down completely.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Aloha on September 29, 2017, 05:01:06 PM
What is most bothersome is letting a tool like that out the factory.  We've just had another member get hold of a dud.  I was never in doubt of LM honoring their warranty but.........  Are they relying on this great warranty and not better QC?

We've had several members have the BO come off of brand new tools.  I personally have not had this issue.  The larger issue is this inconsistency.  I just hope the tool you get is spot on in every way. 
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 29, 2017, 05:20:27 PM
Syph007  your chemistry is spot on.  I'd bet you the town you won't get the black oxide off with acetone or anything short of a hot acid dip.  Besides of course any spots that may be dirty base.  I'm not sure but I believe the oxide is a cosmetic for Leatherman as I have never seen them claim the benefits of hot oxide application in their details. And that's completely okay with me. The base is stainless.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 29, 2017, 05:24:47 PM
I'm pretty sure they use "room temperature blacking " for their tools though. 
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on September 29, 2017, 05:27:16 PM
And and and I'd think to remove it, it should take distilled water bath,  to cold miratic acid bath,  to hot nitric with negative amperage.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on October 05, 2017, 11:02:37 PM
I would like to update with net rushes great service on the back end now.  After sending the surge back last Thursday i just received an email that they didn't have the surge in stock, but that they will return my money and send me another Leatherman of my choosing with expedited shipping free of charge!
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Syncop8r on October 06, 2017, 08:32:09 AM
I would like to update with net rushes great service on the back end now.  After sending the surge back last Thursday i just received an email that they didn't have the surge in stock, but that they will return my money and send me another Leatherman of my choosing with expedited shipping free of charge!
Good news, although you really do need a (good) Surge.  :pok:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Blackbeard on October 06, 2017, 08:38:11 AM
when you get a dud or defective item from amazon just request a return, I have sent many items back with no problems, sometimes you cant get a replacement if the item was a lightning deal from 3rd party seller, and only a refund is available.

Years ago I lucked upon a bunch of surges at walmart for $30 each. sold one to a guy at work who was a slob and must have dropped it in the ocean, and broke one of the tools. Kinda felt bad for him so I did the return process for him, cleaned out the rust and gunk, they sent a new one to me, soI'm guessing you got a rookie csr who handled or rather mishandled your case
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: fivesense on October 07, 2017, 05:28:11 PM
Hi.  Names Ryan and I'm new here.  I joined after being excited to finally get my first new Leatherman Surge.  I had a gift card and ordered it from Amazon.  After the 2 day shipping wait i opened it with much excitement and anticipation.... it was short lived.  The inside the handle tools just flopped out, the end caps that are held in place with the security torx were loose, and the worst was one side of the handle doesn't "click" into place so when you close the pliers onto something once you try to open it the handle folds out before the pliers open. 

I wasn't too upset as one of the reasons i decided on leatherman was the 25yr warranty and the good reviews on said warranty. Unfortunately after emailing leatherman my response was "sorry you're disappointed in your purchase but since you bought this from Amazon and not leatherman directly you'll need contact the seller for any refund or replacement."

Buyer beware. No where was it stated that Amazon wasn't a authorized dealer or that it would null the warranty. Extremely unsatisfied. I can't even use it out of the box with the pliers issue.  Lesson learned.

No brainer- return to Amazon. This has nothing to do with Leatherman.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: SteveC on October 07, 2017, 11:24:14 PM
Hi.  Names Ryan and I'm new here.  I joined after being excited to finally get my first new Leatherman Surge.  I had a gift card and ordered it from Amazon.  After the 2 day shipping wait i opened it with much excitement and anticipation.... it was short lived.  The inside the handle tools just flopped out, the end caps that are held in place with the security torx were loose, and the worst was one side of the handle doesn't "click" into place so when you close the pliers onto something once you try to open it the handle folds out before the pliers open. 

I wasn't too upset as one of the reasons i decided on leatherman was the 25yr warranty and the good reviews on said warranty. Unfortunately after emailing leatherman my response was "sorry you're disappointed in your purchase but since you bought this from Amazon and not leatherman directly you'll need contact the seller for any refund or replacement."

Buyer beware. No where was it stated that Amazon wasn't a authorized dealer or that it would null the warranty. Extremely unsatisfied. I can't even use it out of the box with the pliers issue.  Lesson learned.

No brainer- return to Amazon. This has nothing to do with Leatherman.
 

You are a bit late to the party    ;)
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: kaput on October 07, 2017, 11:25:18 PM
Wait, so is he saying that they gave him "another Leatherman of my choosing with expedited shipping free of charge!", the tool for free or the expedited shipping free?  :think:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Aloha on October 07, 2017, 11:40:25 PM
Wait, so is he saying that they gave him "another Leatherman of my choosing with expedited shipping free of charge!", the tool for free or the expedited shipping free?  :think:

I understood it to mean BOTH. 
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on October 09, 2017, 03:13:56 AM
They returned my money in full. They were out of stock on the Surge. Because of all the hassle and miscommunication and admitted mishandling on their end they sent me a Leatherman Wave free of charge and with expedited shipping.  I received it today! It's in great condition and I'm more than satisfied  with a free Leatherman! Its a bit small for what I need so I will end up buying the surge but I'm going to give this a run for awhile. 

I like the Surge for the replaceable wire cutters (I do a lot of welding mostly mig) and the T slot tool. So I will be purchasing one but the Wave looks like it'll be perfect for the camping bag. 

Leatherman themselves still never replied to any of my emails after the second one but it's okay. When I buy the Surge ill go directly through them. 

I'm just happy it ended up good in the end and everyone's happy. I didn't expect or ask for a free tool so that was a nice surprise on their end.

Thanks for all your help and comments. I'm looking forward to the forum.

Sorry,  I was going to post a pic from my phone but it says attachments too big?  Anyone have this problem?
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: kaput on October 09, 2017, 03:16:24 AM
 :facepalm:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Syncop8r on October 09, 2017, 03:30:47 AM
they sent me a Leatherman Wave free of charge and with expedited shipping.
Good score!  :2tu:

Sorry,  I was going to post a pic from my phone but it says attachments too big?  Anyone have this problem?
I use pixresizer to reduce my pics down to attach. I used to use Photobucket to share photos on here but they stopped allowing that, although there is a sneaky fix you can do depending on your browser.

:facepalm:
What's that for?
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: kaput on October 09, 2017, 08:40:24 AM
@syncop8tor Having been in customer service I find it terribly disheartening when people complain and raise a stink when they are being unreasonable. To go start a thread saying they won't honor a warranty for example. And then, posting a YouTube video titled "Leatherman won't honor warranty", which is a lie  :rant:. It annoys me. Then for his extended efforts at tarnishing a company that I personally have had excellent service and enjoyed years of their products, to be frank, it pisses me off that he got a free tool. It happens in customer service far too much, where the >:D customer gets the world for being a douche canoe. (I'm not talking about anyone imparticular, just saying...)

But congrats. you won.  :drink: the squeaky wheel gets the oil...
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on October 09, 2017, 06:20:25 PM
I'm not sure what your problem is kaput but leatherman didn't have anything to do with this. I don't feel I need to explain myself to you period, but what Leatherman DID do was send a piece of garbage out of the shop which caused me WEEKS extra to fix it with zero help from them. I'm not sure why you're so upset and taking this personal.  But the FACT remains.  Leatherman sent out a junk tool and then did NOT offer to replace it even after I made the video. And I had already sent the tool back for my refund BEFORE they replied.

I did NOT ask for anything free.  And the only "squeaking " I did sir,  was to ask for what I paid for. Not one thing more.  Please,  try and have a good day.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on October 09, 2017, 06:22:01 PM
 And to be perfectly clear...LEATHERMAN DID NOT GIVE ME A FREE TOOL OR A REFUND.  NET RUSH DID.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on October 09, 2017, 07:29:24 PM
I'm with Ryan on this one.

Personally I would have gone to the retailer first, and I think most here would agree. However, I think most here would also agree is the guy just wanted what he'd paid for, and Leatherman could have been more helpful in there response, even if it was just a clearer explaination.

I'm glad you got a satisfactory settlement, Ryan  :cheers:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: ThundahBeagle on October 09, 2017, 07:32:56 PM
I'm not a moderator here, but if you permit me...

Fellas, let's step back a bit to retain a little decorum.

Ryan received a bum tool (no snickering necessary)
Kaput raises an interesting point

-I have no doubt that Leatherman would have honored the warranty had Ryan simply filled out the form and sent the tool in.

-At some point, Leatherman learned that Ryan had just received the tool via Amazon/ NetRush, and so Leatherman directed Ryan to go back through them for the fastest possible resolution (they have one in a local warehouse they can ship to him in faster time)

-Ryan somehow mistook this for a lack of service. Anyone who has purchased through Amazon knows you have a window during which you can return your item. You can then order another. But Ryan sees the info about Leathermans warranty, so got confused.

-Where I think Kaput is put off, is that it seems Ryan may have flown off the handle a little bit. He seems to have gone from zero to 60 in too short a time, without fully understanding the process, and his post here and on YouTube were, to Ryan's view, an attempt to put attention to the matter and get resolution, while to Kaput (and others), believe that Leatherman and NetRush Amazon were already in-process doing what they could and were not given proper time and opportunity to make good

Meanwhile, Ryan's posts have cast (unnecessary?) aspersions onto Leatherman.

We are all friends here. The more seasoned of us try to guide the younger bucks. The younger bucks would do well to allow themselves to be guided.

I think we can all agree that this Surge should never have left the factory in this condition. That was the point at which the totality of this situation could have been avoided.

Leatherman warranty is nothing short of epic, but it would be nice if the building process and QC/ QA made sure that the warranty need only apply to tools that have already had years of use, rather than one falling apart out of the box.

Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: kaput on October 09, 2017, 07:38:13 PM
@TB  :salute: :salute: :tu:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Aloha on October 09, 2017, 07:43:17 PM
@TB  :salute: :salute: :tu:

 :salute:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: SteveC on October 09, 2017, 08:35:35 PM
Well said TB !   :tu:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Syncop8r on October 09, 2017, 09:38:40 PM
Well said TB !   :tu:
+1

Thundahbeagle for Moderator! Or the UN!
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on October 09, 2017, 10:27:28 PM
I'm with Ryan on this one.

Personally I would have gone to the retailer first, and I think most here would agree. However, I think most here would also agree is the guy just wanted what he'd paid for, and Leatherman could have been more helpful in there response, even if it was just a clearer explaination.

I'm glad you got a satisfactory settlement, Ryan  :cheers:

+1

Well said mate  :salute:.

And Leatherman might have this awesome warranty in the U.S., but in other countries it's often a different story.  So when I read things like "Leatherman won't honor warranty, which is a lie  :rant:. It annoys me" it kind of annoys me, to be honest. I'm sure some might say that, again, this is not Leatherman's fault, But for customers outside the U.S., the local distributor IS Leatherman, or at least an extension of Leatherman, and I do think it's their responsibility to make sure their excellent U.S. warranty is available for their foreign enthusiasts/customers also. Especially when they maintain the current level of QC ...

The way I see it, in this case, Leatherman should be grateful that Net Rush handled it so good, Net Rush had to clean up the mess that Leatherman made by letting this dud leave the factory (once again ...).  We're talking about a first time customer who had quite a disappointing first experience with the Leatherman brand, and thanks to Net Rush this customer now has a Leatherman on his belt, and is thinking about buying another one ... Well played Net Rush, I'd say ...  :tu:

So what do we say Leatherman ?  Thank you Net Rush ...  :-[
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: gerleatherberman on October 09, 2017, 10:40:36 PM
TY thundahbeagle. Quite a well written post, sir! A level of reasoning that needed to be said.
BUT, lets just clarify one last thing, if y'all don't mind.
The Surge that was defective was not a "dud" in the common sense of the word. The can opener did not lockup correctly. That is it really. It is a minor QC oversight.
A "dud" typically has multiple issues. For around $90-$100, the Surge is well below its' competitor's pricing on similar tools...If there are actually any comparable tools. I just don't know of any.
QC suffers first when people won't pay extra for extra quality. The LM warranty takes care of this though.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on October 09, 2017, 10:54:47 PM
TY thundahbeagle. Quite a well written post, sir! A level of reasoning that needed to be said.
BUT, lets just clarify one last thing, if y'all don't mind.
The Surge that was defective was not a "dud" in the common sense of the word. The can opener did not lockup correctly. That is it really. It is a minor QC oversight.
A "dud" typically has multiple issues. For around $90-$100, the Surge is well below its' competitor's pricing on similar tools...If there are actually any comparable tools. I just don't know of any.
QC suffers first when people won't pay extra for extra quality. The LM warranty takes care of this though.

A minor QC oversight that left one of the tools useless ... (I thought this was on the Captain his Surge ...  :think:).

If I remember correctly the OP had several problems:

... The inside the handle tools just flopped out, the end caps that are held in place with the security torx were loose, and the worst was one side of the handle doesn't "click" into place so when you close the pliers onto something once you try to open it the handle folds out before the pliers open ...

On my Surge the spring on the scissors broke, after only being used like two times, the end caps were also loose and didn't align with the handle,  and I also had to tighten the inside tools ... And if you want to buy a Surge over here at a local store, you'll need to dig up 189 Euro.  Call me nitpicky, but for that amount I expect a tool that has zero "minor QC oversights" ...
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on October 09, 2017, 11:06:59 PM
TY thundahbeagle. Quite a well written post, sir! A level of reasoning that needed to be said.
BUT, lets just clarify one last thing, if y'all don't mind.
The Surge that was defective was not a "dud" in the common sense of the word. The can opener did not lockup correctly. That is it really. It is a minor QC oversight.
A "dud" typically has multiple issues. For around $90-$100, the Surge is well below its' competitor's pricing on similar tools...If there are actually any comparable tools. I just don't know of any.
QC suffers first when people won't pay extra for extra quality. The LM warranty takes care of this though.

A minor QC oversight that left one of the tools useless ... (I thought this was on the Captain his Surge ...  :think:).

If I remember correctly the OP had several problems:

... The inside the handle tools just flopped out, the end caps that are held in place with the security torx were loose, and the worst was one side of the handle doesn't "click" into place so when you close the pliers onto something once you try to open it the handle folds out before the pliers open ...

On my Surge the spring on the scissors broke, after only being used like two times, the end caps were also loose and didn't align with the handle,  and I also had to tighten the inside tools ... And if you want to buy a Surge over here at a local store, you'll need to dig up 189 Euro.  Call me nitpicky, but for that amount I expect a tool that has zero "minor QC oversights" ...

 :tu: :salute:

Multiple quality issues on a supposedly top rate tool, and an unhelpful response from the customer care team. Ryan is getting called out for being overly critical, but with respect to all, I think some people here are getting overly/disproportionately defensive/protective of the brand. Top end pricing, multiple defects on a single product, and poor customer aftercare is not a good equation. Ryan was more than entitled to be unhappy with the cards he was dealt, even if he did contact people in the wrong order.

I don't care how much you like the brands or products, you don't attack other customers for being unhappy with poor products, and abrupt support responses. Plus, to echo TG, they DO NOT offer the same level of service everywhere their products are sold.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: SteveC on October 09, 2017, 11:39:34 PM
I'm with Ryan on this one.

Personally I would have gone to the retailer first, and I think most here would agree. However, I think most here would also agree is the guy just wanted what he'd paid for, and Leatherman could have been more helpful in there response, even if it was just a clearer explaination.

I'm glad you got a satisfactory settlement, Ryan  :cheers:

+1

Well said mate  :salute:.

And Leatherman might have this awesome warranty in the U.S., but in other countries it's often a different story.  So when I read things like "Leatherman won't honor warranty, which is a lie  :rant:. It annoys me" it kind of annoys me, to be honest. I'm sure some might say that, again, this is not Leatherman's fault, But for customers outside the U.S., the local distributor IS Leatherman, or at least an extension of Leatherman, and I do think it's their responsibility to make sure their excellent U.S. warranty is available for their foreign enthusiasts/customers also. Especially when they maintain the current level of QC ...

The way I see it, in this case, Leatherman should be grateful that Net Rush handled it so good, Net Rush had to clean up the mess that Leatherman made by letting this dud leave the factory (once again ...).  We're talking about a first time customer who had quite a disappointing first experience with the Leatherman brand, and thanks to Net Rush this customer now has a Leatherman on his belt, and is thinking about buying another one ... Well played Net Rush, I'd say ...  :tu:

So what do we say Leatherman ?  Thank you Net Rush ...  :-[

Also well said   :tu:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: SteveC on October 09, 2017, 11:44:49 PM


Multiple quality issues on a supposedly top rate tool, and an unhelpful response from the customer care team. Ryan is getting called out for being overly critical, but with respect to all, I think some people here are getting overly/disproportionately defensive/protective of the brand. Top end pricing, multiple defects on a single product, and poor customer aftercare is not a good equation. Ryan was more than entitled to be unhappy with the cards he was dealt, even if he did contact people in the wrong order.

I don't care how much you like the brands or products, you don't attack other customers for being unhappy with poor products, and abrupt support responses. Plus, to echo TG, they DO NOT offer the same level of service everywhere their products are sold.

Quality control issue aside.

There is no doubt this could have been handled better by Leatherman initially by explaining better why they wanted Ryan to go through the Amazon dealer with his return and replacement.

 I do think that Ryan now happy with Net Rush taking care of him should take the Video down being that it isn't true that Leatherman won't honor their warranty.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on October 09, 2017, 11:48:36 PM
I'd have to say some are right in their comments. While not a "young buck " (I'm 40 and a supervisor for an aerospace company doing prototype work)  I do still have a lot to learn and always will.  Did i maybe get heated fast?  Possibly.  But I don't think I can state enough that I tried to contact Leatherman REPEATEDLY before I got the first vague response.  The tool didn't just have minor defects. It was unusable. The loose tools and end caps were a small issue.  But the pliers rendered it useless. Adding them all together it was unacceptable from me.

Now I only expect out of a retailer what they say they will do. I can't remember EVER calling, emailing, or chasing a company just to whine or get something free.  That's just not me.  So I do take quite a bit of umbrage when it's implied. In fact, more than once I've just taken things I've purchased as a loss when they came broke.  Those things were from company's I knew were a gamble.

Even if the tool had came with the minor defects, I would still have had it replaced. I would have been more patient... only if I could still USE the tool while I waited it out.

I admit fully that I was ignorant of the chain of command when not ordering directly from Leatherman.  To, me, this is  beside the issue. If Leatherman's customer service was as fantastic as some experts have opined why didn't this get sorted BEFORE I decided to take more drastic measures? 
I did NOT email them once and then go ape sh@t. I continually did until I got that vague answer.  Now, at this point I was angry and I asked for clarification.  I asked that if the retailer I bought it from didn't replace it was the original warranty still an option.  I never got another response.  I THEN moved onto net rush.  I had quite the time getting anywhere on that end.

Once I posted the video, which I'd like to remind anyone still reading this far, was only to show the forum the tool. I decided one last time to send it to both Leatherman and net rush.  I had already arranged with Amazon to just send it back and get my refund as both had quit responding to me. Low and behold I got emails from both of them!! Crazy I know. Both of them were very helpful.

Now my opinion is that if leatherman was such a fantastic company with such outstanding customer service, that this would have never gotten this far if they sent a follow up email.  And further and more importantly,  if the tool had come as advertised. While 100$ isn't the end of the world, it's not penny's.

I admit I could have been more patient but I also think they would have never responded if I hadn't gotten as aggressive as I did. Which wasn't very at all
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on October 09, 2017, 11:51:03 PM
And you're right. I'm happy net rush cleaned up Leatherman's mess. Video is gone.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on October 10, 2017, 12:03:36 AM
Looks like it's about time to stop talking about the wrongs in this story, and start focussing on the rights ...

All QC issues aside, when they do get it right, Leatherman still produces magnificent tools, you just need a bit more luck buying one these days than you used to a couple of years ago ... (and this can be said for a lot of things these days  ::)).
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Syncop8r on October 10, 2017, 12:06:33 AM
Perhaps you just kept getting the Tea Lady in your first few emails.  ;)

Although I didn't think that first reply was so bad or wrong, just a bit brief.

Anyway, how's the Wave going (we need pics  :pok:) and when are you getting a Surge? :poke:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Syncop8r on October 10, 2017, 12:07:43 AM
Looks like it's about time to stop talking about the wrongs in this story, and start focussing on the rights ...

All QC issues aside, when they do get it right, Leatherman still produces magnificent tools, you just need a bit more luck buying one these days than you used to a couple of years ago ... (and this can be said for a lot of things these days  ::)).
:tu: :salute:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on October 10, 2017, 12:14:28 AM
Ryan, while you made a couple of booboos along the way, I think you were quite patient initially, and entitled to your frustrations. I also think that in light of some of the comments you have received in this thread, you have handled things quite well here too  :cheers:

I'm glad you have reached a point where you can now draw a line under the events and move forwards. While some have been quite supportive of the company, I will always be inclined to side with the consumer, unless they do something daft (like contacting the wrong people  :pok: :P :D) The numerous tool problems were not of your making, neither was the frustrating lack of guidance from the manufacturer. Despite that you have praised those who helped you, and been prepared to try again with the manufacturer who let you down in multiple ways.

If you do move forward to get a Surge, I hope you have better luck with the product and customer service. I also hope you'll stick around here and become a frequent contributer to our wider multitool community  :tu:

Good luck with your tool/s, and I look forward to hear how you get along with the Wave  :cheers:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: SteveC on October 10, 2017, 12:18:41 AM
Ryan, while you made a couple of booboos along the way, I think you were quite patient initially, and entitled to your frustrations. I also think that in light of some of the comments you have received in this thread, you have handled things quite well here too  :cheers:

I'm glad you have reached a point where you can now draw a line under the events and move forwards. While some have been quite supportive of the company, I will always be inclined to side with the consumer, unless they do something daft (like contacting the wrong people  :pok: :P :D) The numerous tool problems were not of your making, neither was the frustrating lack of guidance from the manufacturer. Despite that you have praised those who helped you, and been prepared to try again with the manufacturer who let you down in multiple ways.

If you do move forward to get a Surge, I hope you have better luck with the product and customer service. I also hope you'll stick around here and become a frequent contributer to our wider multitool community  :tu:

Good luck with your tool/s, and I look forward to hear how you get along with the Wave  :cheers:

Here here !   and a big +1    :cheers:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on October 10, 2017, 12:19:36 AM
 you're correct. Their first email wasn't wrong. I would even say it wasn't vague. It was the lack of answering any more of my questions.

The Wave is okay for what it is but it's a bit small and tool light for my daily needs. I will be buying a surge. I think it'll cover everything well
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on October 10, 2017, 12:28:07 AM
I didn't know the wave was so much smaller than the surge.  I thought they were relatively the same size. I liked the Surge. It felt... beefy... in hand. The Wave seems to be a great tool also. It works well for clipping mig wire. I use the knife all day.  I wish the scissors were as stout as the surges and I REALLY miss the T slot tool. But I have to say, for a free tool its outstanding. It does what it's supposed to great, and it will fill in nicely until I get my Surge. 

Then I'd be more than happy to send it to kaput of he'd like it.  (Sorry I couldn't resist)  but seriously I would be more than happy to send it to someone seriously in need.  Maybe there's someone who really likes the tool but with kids etc just can't justify buying it.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Aloha on October 10, 2017, 12:30:10 AM
We don't have to agree on how to handle things.  What we can all agree on is getting a tool we paid our hard earned money on and getting anything less that a working tool sucks. 

Do duds come from the factory?  Sure.  Seems we have seen our fair share.  On the bright side.  When Leatherman does get it right, oh boy.  Not all tools appeal to everyone and hand size, needs, personal views , etc all play a part but daggone it the Surge is KING.  I hope when you finally decide to get one its flawless and you stay around to share thoughts on it. 
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on October 10, 2017, 12:42:57 AM
 Some others ARE right. After some work Leatherman said they'd ultimately fix the tool if sent.  I'd like to request if possible a moderator change the title to...i don't know...Sad Surge Day. Thanks!

Unless I can edit it myself.
Title: Sad Surge SItuation Solved
Post by: Syncop8r on October 10, 2017, 12:46:00 AM
Some others ARE right. After some work Leatherman said they'd ultimately fix the tool if sent.  I'd like to request if possible a moderator change the title to...i don't know...Sad Surge Day. Thanks!

Unless I can edit it myself.
You can only change it in your current post. ^
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: SteveC on October 10, 2017, 01:16:21 AM
Having recently acquired a Surge myself I think you will be more than happy with it.  :tu: :tu:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: fivesense on October 10, 2017, 06:18:41 AM
I find this all just a bit ridiculous. LM QC notwithstanding, if you order something from Amazon and it is not up to spec, return it immediately before disparaging the product manufacturer. Give the ASAP return a chance. The whole process of receiving an exchange would take infinitely less time than wrangling with the manufacturer's customer service. If the exchange is also not up to snuff then you have a case.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: kaput on October 10, 2017, 07:16:31 AM
Some others ARE right. After some work Leatherman said they'd ultimately fix the tool if sent.  I'd like to request if possible a moderator change the title to...i don't know...Sad Surge Day. Thanks!

Unless I can edit it myself.
How bout a mod changes the title and closes the thread, the issue has been resolved all the other points that keep getting brought up are moot and another issue. This has been rehashed a dozen times over. It should have been left with ThundahBeagles post or another with a softer tongue. (Definitley not me or 50ft  :drink: )

We don't have to agree on how to handle things.  What we can all agree on is getting a tool we paid our hard earned money on and getting anything less that a working tool sucks. 

Do duds come from the factory?  Sure.  Seems we have seen our fair share.  On the bright side.  When Leatherman does get it right, oh boy.  Not all tools appeal to everyone and hand size, needs, personal views , etc all play a part but daggone it the Surge is KING.  I hope when you finally decide to get one its flawless and you stay around to share thoughts on it.
THIS.

/thread
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Ryan78matin on October 10, 2017, 02:53:39 PM
 Okay.  Well I don't agree.  I can't say it again. I tried both the Amazon retailer and leatherman with no help until I took aggressive measures.  I still firmly believe that leatherman dropped the ball on this.  They didn't offer replacement or repair of the surge until WELL after it went back for refund and I was told it was out of stock.

Thanks to those with helpful comments but I will quietly retract my offer of the gift wave I received to someone in need and step out of the forum. While leatherman is a good tool I am not about to argue to the death that they DID send out an inferior tool, wasted my time and money, and left me with a tool I didn't originally want. 

Their offer of repair or replacement came little too late.  If you disagree?  Well I've more than seen the fanaticism some hold in this forum for the company.  To me, in my opinion, its wearing a pair of blinders. I didn't whine or squeak.  I asked polite and civil questions that didn't get answered until too late.  The tool was already out of my hands, back to the retailer. 

IF Leatherman was the upstanding quality company some say they are the retailer wouldn't matter.  Net rush was an authorized dealer.  Leatherman SHOULD have just said,  "send us the tool and paperwork and we'll fix it." End.  Of. Story.  Anything else, chain of command, Amazon, etc, is just an excuse for poor quality and customer service. 

So with that, I'll kindly take my leave.  I wish you all well.  Thanks for the suggestions and fair comments. I agree, this has become ridiculous. The suggestion of shutting it down so nobody else could say their peice, right or wrong, is just too much.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: SteveC on October 10, 2017, 03:19:50 PM
I find this all just a bit ridiculous. LM QC notwithstanding, if you order something from Amazon and it is not up to spec, return it immediately before disparaging the product manufacturer. Give the ASAP return a chance. The whole process of receiving an exchange would take infinitely less time than wrangling with the manufacturer's customer service. If the exchange is also not up to snuff then you have a case.


Again you step in late to fan the fire....not cool  !


: Edited because I put the wrong quote in
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: gerleatherberman on October 10, 2017, 03:25:16 PM
Me. :nothingtoadd:

Some others. :dnft:

Oh yeah, I forgot, one more.
 :worthless:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on October 10, 2017, 03:29:22 PM
Again you step in late to fan the fire....not cool  !

 :think:

Did you quote the right post here, Steve?

I hadn't read this post of Ryan's as inflammatory  :shrug:

EDIT - Resolved  :tu:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: SteveC on October 10, 2017, 03:31:01 PM
No, I screwed up and put the wrong quote in......please edit your post Al

I edited mine to get the right quote


 :facepalm:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on October 10, 2017, 03:32:44 PM
no I screwed up please edit your post Al

I edited mine to get the right quote


 :facepalm:

Done!  :tu:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Syncop8r on October 10, 2017, 10:23:50 PM
Well done guys. Lost a member because of bickering.  ::)
I hope you're proud of yourselves.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Poncho65 on October 11, 2017, 04:34:06 AM
Well I guess I haven't caught up on threads quick enough :facepalm:

Let's drop this thread before anyone else decides to leave guys :salute:

Plenty have had a say in both sides so let's just let it be now :police:

In the end he got a tool that does function and the retailer fixed the situation as best they could and that is that  :cheers:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: ThundahBeagle on October 11, 2017, 04:46:19 AM
Well done guys. Lost a member because of bickering.  ::)
I hope you're proud of yourselves.

I don't know if we really lost Ryan. Sure, I hope not, but that's up to him. He says he never had a Leatherman before or dealt with th company, yet did not appear willing, at least not at first, to accept some of the more experienced advice offered here. Understandably upset with his first transaction. Too bad, too. Hopefully he takes some time to cool off and pops back in
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Top-Gear-24 on October 11, 2017, 10:07:43 AM
Being called a douche canoe in his first topic that he started I think Ryan reacted quite polite ...  And please don't say that the douche canoe remark wasn't aimed at him, English might not be my native language, but I can still read between the lines.

Leatherman U.S.A.'s warranty is so great that you can send in a busted tool that you found on the side of the road and they'll fix it.  But when you buy a brand new tool that is flawed from an online retailer they can't help you ... And when the customer finds this weird he's acting like a douche ...

This is the last thing I'm going to post in this topic.

Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Mechanickal on October 11, 2017, 12:25:41 PM
Being called a douche canoe in his first topic that he started I think Ryan reacted quite polite ...  And please don't say that the douche canoe remark wasn't aimed at him, English might not be my native language, but I can still read between the lines.

Leatherman U.S.A.'s warranty is so great that you can send in a busted tool that you found on the side of the road and they'll fix it.  But when you buy a brand new tool that is flawed from an online retailer they can't help you ... And when the customer finds this weird he's acting like a douche ...

This is the last thing I'm going to post in this topic.
:imws:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Syncop8r on October 11, 2017, 12:45:57 PM
Being called a douche canoe in his first topic that he started I think Ryan reacted quite polite ...  And please don't say that the douche canoe remark wasn't aimed at him, English might not be my native language, but I can still read between the lines.

Leatherman U.S.A.'s warranty is so great that you can send in a busted tool that you found on the side of the road and they'll fix it.  But when you buy a brand new tool that is flawed from an online retailer they can't help you ... And when the customer finds this weird he's acting like a douche ...

This is the last thing I'm going to post in this topic.
:imws:
:imws:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: gerleatherberman on October 11, 2017, 02:27:36 PM
I had kinda hoped the mods would have put the ole' [/closed] on this this thread. ;)
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on October 11, 2017, 03:25:53 PM
Being called a douche canoe in his first topic that he started I think Ryan reacted quite polite ...  And please don't say that the douche canoe remark wasn't aimed at him, English might not be my native language, but I can still read between the lines.

Leatherman U.S.A.'s warranty is so great that you can send in a busted tool that you found on the side of the road and they'll fix it.  But when you buy a brand new tool that is flawed from an online retailer they can't help you ... And when the customer finds this weird he's acting like a douche ...

This is the last thing I'm going to post in this topic.
:imws:
:imws:
:tu:
I had kinda hoped the mods would have put the ole' [/closed] on this this thread. ;)
I kinda hoped they would address the problem (see above)
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Poncho65 on October 11, 2017, 03:58:54 PM
Listen guys drop it.

I was being polite before but if you guys want to continue bickering then take it to PM

There are plenty  of things on both sides that should never have been said.  So I am going to ask once more to let this thread be dropped and let's continue on in other more constructive not destructive threads.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: fivesense on October 14, 2017, 04:36:01 AM
I find this all just a bit ridiculous. LM QC notwithstanding, if you order something from Amazon and it is not up to spec, return it immediately before disparaging the product manufacturer. Give the ASAP return a chance. The whole process of receiving an exchange would take infinitely less time than wrangling with the manufacturer's customer service. If the exchange is also not up to snuff then you have a case.


Again you step in late to fan the fire....not cool  !


: Edited because I put the wrong quote in
. Thanks, self appointed referee. I'm glad for your opinion on my opinion. Twice.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Poncho65 on October 14, 2017, 01:58:37 PM
5sense if you're being sarcastic then stop because you came in late and did fan the fire as the conversation had cool down.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on October 14, 2017, 03:23:05 PM
PM sent.

Def
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: fivesense on October 14, 2017, 06:00:56 PM
5sense if you're being sarcastic then stop because you came in late and did fan the fire as the conversation had cool down.

"Came in late?" Because I didn't read pages of this thread before responding to the original post?

I've been "notified" of the no name caling conduct of this forum (of which I was already aware before I called someone a "referee.") Then I was called a "snot-nosed little whiner" by a moderator.

The thread should have been closed pages ago before a few keyboard toughies got their dander up. But since I've been threatened to have the "plug pulled" on my membership, I'll save the mods the trouble...

Enjoy your Lord of the Flies fiefdom.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: pomsbz on October 14, 2017, 06:40:28 PM
I would be worried if moderators use that kind of language in their communication with members regardless of the situation. Would it be possible to hear from management on the subject? I've always found this forum to be the friendliest and politest in the world of EDC, knives, tools, etc.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on October 14, 2017, 07:49:21 PM
Management chose to have that discussion in private.

Fivesense chose to not be a part of this forum any longer.  Case closed.

Def
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: firiki on October 14, 2017, 08:43:30 PM
Being too busy lately, I didn' t follow this thread closely. After a quick scan, I must say this thread most definitely isn't your average typical MTO thread... :shrug:

Not a single bit of derailment? Really?
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: AimlessWanderer on October 14, 2017, 08:44:39 PM
Management chose to have that discussion in private.

Fivesense chose to not be a part of this forum any longer.  Case closed.

Def

 :salute:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Aloha on October 14, 2017, 11:55:31 PM
Been using my dash camera for a few weeks.  I play an odd variety of music on my drives.  Usually I use the internet for music but lately I've been playing the radio.  I watched a few drives recorded from my dash camera and I'm not sure how I managed to avoid so many accidents. 

Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Syncop8r on October 15, 2017, 05:15:38 AM
Excellent derail Aloha!
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: gerleatherberman on October 15, 2017, 05:44:55 AM
Been using my dash camera for a few weeks.  I play an odd variety of music on my drives.  Usually I use the internet for music but lately I've been playing the radio.  I watched a few drives recorded from my dash camera and I'm not sure how I managed to avoid so many accidents.

I have been considering trying a dashcam recently. The casino near my work attracts a lot of people who have no business driving on the highway I have to drive 20 miles on. They do crazy stuff and I often narrowly escape a wreck. I would love to have proof of their recklessness!
Is it a built in cam or a add-on?

I still burn audio CDs fron MP3s.  :rofl:
My SUV is 16 years old and still has the original CD player. I need two new tires,  but will have to drive slow in the rain for a few more weeks. :facepalm:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Aloha on October 15, 2017, 07:48:45 AM
Its a cheap add on.  I really like having it tho because of anything potential that could occur.  I am really thinking about a rear one as well.  This is not one I'd recommend but for now its not terrible.  We have a thread regarding dash cameras which had some good suggestions.  I forget the one I recommended in that thread and I think the thread was started by Kev ( minion ).   
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Mechanickal on October 15, 2017, 09:55:47 AM
Mine costed only $20 but only lasted for about 2 months before the screen went black. Went back for a refund and bought a "crisis-light" online instead.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: gerleatherberman on October 15, 2017, 03:28:28 PM
Thank you guys!
Definitely seems like a good investment to buy a good dash cam now. :)
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Mechanickal on October 15, 2017, 03:48:22 PM
Also check your oil level regularly.
It'll be the difference between driving and getting towed!
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: gerleatherberman on October 15, 2017, 03:56:45 PM
Also check your oil level regularly.
It'll be the difference between driving and getting towed!
What's an "oil level"?
J/K
My car leaks a quart a month from the main seal, so I just keep it topped off and rarely have to change the oil. The car sat up three years unused when I lived up north and has had gasket and seal issues since I moved back. Even had to fix the whole vacuum system, because most of the vac hoses were rotten. :ahhh
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Mechanickal on October 15, 2017, 04:45:32 PM


Also check your oil level regularly.
It'll be the difference between driving and getting towed!
What's an "oil level"?
J/K
My car leaks a quart a month from the main seal, so I just keep it topped off and rarely have to change the oil. The car sat up three years unused when I lived up north and has had gasket and seal issues since I moved back. Even had to fix the whole vacuum system, because most of the vac hoses were rotten. :ahhh

(https://cms-sites-media.s3.amazonaws.com/cms-site-strathcom-production/media/uploads/blog_images/oil-leak-car-salesman-meme1.jpg)
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: eamo on October 15, 2017, 04:47:51 PM
Also check your oil level regularly.
It'll be the difference between driving and getting towed!
What's an "oil level"?
J/K
My car leaks a quart a month from the main seal, so I just keep it topped off and rarely have to change the oil. The car sat up three years unused when I lived up north and has had gasket and seal issues since I moved back. Even had to fix the whole vacuum system, because most of the vac hoses were rotten. :ahhh

a quart ? is that like 2 pints ? do you fill the oil whenever you get petrol ? (yeah gas to you guys :) )
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: gerleatherberman on October 15, 2017, 04:52:52 PM
Mechanickal. My thoughts exactly. :rofl:

Eamo,
The car takes 5 quarts, and loses one a month. So 20% a month loss. I just top it off once a month and check it every few days. Just in case. :cheers:
The car is a Ford Escape V6, which is really a Mazda Tribute V6. 16 years old. :P
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Mechanickal on October 15, 2017, 05:13:03 PM
Mechanickal. My thoughts exactly. :rofl:

Eamo,
The car takes 5 quarts, and loses one a month. So 20% a month loss. I just top it off once a month and check it every few days. Just in case. :cheers:
The car is a Ford Escape V6, which is really a Mazda Tribute V6. 16 years old.
My parents drive 2 Tribute's.
Lovely car to drive in my opinion.

They were never offered as a V6 here though. I always wondered why cars in the US get V6 and V8's while in Europe they get a whole different engine.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: gerleatherberman on October 15, 2017, 05:26:15 PM
Mechanickal. My thoughts exactly. :rofl:

Eamo,
The car takes 5 quarts, and loses one a month. So 20% a month loss. I just top it off once a month and check it every few days. Just in case. :cheers:
The car is a Ford Escape V6, which is really a Mazda Tribute V6. 16 years old.
My parents drive 2 Tribute's.
Lovely car to drive in my opinion.

They were never offered as a V6 here though. I always wondered why cars in the US get V6 and V8's while in Europe they get a whole different engine.
I bought mine used about ten years ago. I could never afford a new car, so when I wrecked my last car, I found the v6 was a lot cheaper at the time than the 4cyl when gas was twice as much as it has been the last two years here.
Runs very well though. 200+hp as well. :ahhh
If I had a choice financially, I'd opt for a better gas mileage car, because I commute round trip 45 miles a day. :ahhh
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: eamo on October 15, 2017, 05:32:09 PM
engines in europe do seem a lot smaller - certainly in ireland between insurance and tax owning a big engined car is very expensive even before you take running costs into account.

Newer cars with larger engines are not penalised tax wise as much now, as since 2008 (i think) cars are taxed on their emissions rather then size.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: ThePeacent on October 15, 2017, 07:53:17 PM
as for dashcams, anybody know why it sees that 90% of drivers in Russia have one?   ???
Is it obligatory, or has something to do with insurance and so? I mean, almost 8/10 dashcam videos on the Internet are from Russia     :think:
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Smashie on October 15, 2017, 08:10:31 PM
as for dashcams, anybody know why it sees that 90% of drivers in Russia have one?   ???
Is it obligatory, or has something to do with insurance and so? I mean, almost 8/10 dashcam videos on the Internet are from Russia     :think:

Corrupt police, I won't drive without one now, saved my backside earlier this year when a woman reversed into me and claimed I drove into her, pure scum
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Mechanickal on October 15, 2017, 09:00:14 PM
as for dashcams, anybody know why it sees that 90% of drivers in Russia have one?   ???
Is it obligatory, or has something to do with insurance and so? I mean, almost 8/10 dashcam videos on the Internet are from Russia     :think:

Corrupt police, I won't drive without one now, saved my backside earlier this year when a woman reversed into me and claimed I drove into her, pure scum
From what I heard from a Russian: with an accident, both insurance companies go to the location of the accident right away and discuss the case there and see who's in fault etc.
A dashcam helps you getting your right and is taken into account by the experts.
After everything is discussed and agreed, both parties leave the scene and it's case closed.

NOT CONFIRMED THOUGH!
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: ThundahBeagle on October 15, 2017, 10:42:13 PM
What is being posted here now won't change what has already been posted, despite good intentions. The incongruity between the title and he current content will just spur the uninitiated to review the entire topic string. Additionally, may I submit that every time someone posts here, that keeps the title floating up at the top of the list.

If the mods lock this string, or if nobody posts here going forward, it will eventually sink into the crowd and out of immediate view.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Smashie on October 15, 2017, 11:19:10 PM
What is being posted here now won't change what has already been posted, despite good intentions. The incongruity between the title and he current content will just spur the uninitiated to review the entire topic string. Additionally, may I submit that every time someone posts here, that keeps the title floating up at the top of the list.

If the mods lock this string, or if nobody posts here going forward, it will eventually sink into the crowd and out of immediate view.

The mods wont do anything, that's why this place is not a place to be anymore
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Grant Lamontagne on October 15, 2017, 11:26:45 PM
I have to say, I respectfully disagree.  I quite like the place.

But then I may be a bit biased....

Def
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: SteveC on October 15, 2017, 11:40:18 PM
What is being posted here now won't change what has already been posted, despite good intentions. The incongruity between the title and he current content will just spur the uninitiated to review the entire topic string. Additionally, may I submit that every time someone posts here, that keeps the title floating up at the top of the list.

If the mods lock this string, or if nobody posts here going forward, it will eventually sink into the crowd and out of immediate view.

The mods wont do anything, that's why this place is not a place to be anymore

I also respectfully disagree.

This is by far the friendliest and best run forum I've ever been on. The mods only step in when absolutely necessary and Poncho did so a page back.

Where I think the failure rests is with us,  members who didn't do a better job of heading this off before it got ugly. We usually do a better job of self moderating than what took place in this thread and it sucks that we lost a new member over it.
Title: Re: won't honor warranty.
Post by: Syncop8r on October 16, 2017, 12:06:28 AM
The mods wont do anything, that's why this place is not a place to be anymore
This is a GREAT place to be, despite the bitter people who turn up every now and then.