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Tool Talk => Rescue Tools => Topic started by: Mactire404 on February 10, 2017, 02:22:50 PM

Title: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mactire404 on February 10, 2017, 02:22:50 PM
Yesterday I bought a Victorinox Rescue Tool. For use in my car. In addition I have two ResQme tools at fixed positions in the car.
I thought that manual impact tools like the Life Hammer and Rescue Tool are hard to use when fully submerged as it's hard to generate as much speed to hit underwater.

My question is, is it true that it's harder/impossible to break a window (side) in a flooded car with a Life Hammer or Rescue Tool. And would an automatic windowbreaker like the ResQme be a better option in that particular case?

I've done some internet research and couldn't find anything about this subject.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Aloha on February 10, 2017, 04:01:00 PM
Pretty intense.  I dont know the answer for you but this is worth watching. 
https://youtu.be/q3_HEKMgqbE
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mechanickal on February 10, 2017, 05:36:37 PM
When the car is submerged, but not flooded (yet) the water weighs on the glass.
By hitting it with a sharp, pointy object, the crack that follows will be enough for the water to crack it further open.

Water on both sides means no difference in presure, which will make it harder to bust. (We're not even talking about the increased drag on your arm under water)

So yes, the statement is true.

Fact: for the same reason, you can't open your car door under water when it isn't flooded, yet if you wait for the car to be flooded, the door can be opened again.

REMAINING CALM IS THE ANSWER (again)
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Don Pablo on February 11, 2017, 12:22:07 AM
-snip-
REMAINING CALM IS THE ANSWER (again)
Thats jamie hyneman's "zen" advice.   :D
(From when they tested escape from a sinking car methods)
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mechanickal on February 11, 2017, 09:44:19 AM
-snip-
REMAINING CALM IS THE ANSWER (again)
Thats jamie hyneman's "zen" advice.   :D
(From when they tested escape from a sinking car methods)
Damn, I'm discovered!

Seriously though, was it??
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mactire404 on February 11, 2017, 03:43:02 PM
Thanks for your replies guys.
Your video was really impressive Aloha007. Note to self: don't run my car in the water.

It doesn't really answer my question. But in a way it did. Because:

- To open the doors, you have to wait for the pressure to equalise. So the car has to fill up.
- If you carry a windowbreaker you don't have to wait for the car to fill up, just shatter the glass and get out of the window.

I do find it an interesting question, will a lifehammer work in a submerged and flooded car. If there is one thing the video of Mythbusters teaches us is that a car in the water is unpredictable.
If you find yourself in the water there is no guaranty you will be able to break the window when the car isn't flooded.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: LoopCutter on February 11, 2017, 06:50:11 PM
And, if by yourself, keeping yourself calm and from becoming in tangled in a seat belt or window opening, why open door can provide better odds.
Now if others with you, a child or passenger, then totally different game.
Best option is stay away from water.   

Rivers are flowing, can roll the car, spin the car.  Then there is debris to get caught on, currents. 

Visit a fire house and ask questions of water rescue personnel. 

There is not enough words to actually prepare one for the possibilities.   

All the best


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mechanickal on February 11, 2017, 09:37:11 PM
Fact is: your chances of making it out ok will be higher simply because you thought it through beforehand :tu:
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Aloha on February 11, 2017, 10:07:39 PM
Fact is: your chances of making it out ok will be higher simply because you thought it through beforehand :tu:

Very true. 

Being disorientated will be one aspect wait for the vehicle to be completely submerged before you can try to open the door, thats gonna take some serious B$LLs
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mactire404 on February 12, 2017, 10:51:33 PM
Thanks again for the replies guys.
By sheer coincidence I found a magazine an article about this subject.

On the question if a manual impact tool (Life Hammer/Vic Resvue Tool) will work in a flooded car the answer is yes... But it will be damn near impossible as it is extremely hard to give the tool enough speed to shatter the glass.
That does not even take the stress of the situation in account.

So, an automatic windowbreaker is a must.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Aloha on February 13, 2017, 07:18:38 AM
I posted about buying an automatic center punch as my window break tool.  It hits really hard when depressed.  I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.  The real tough part is the remaining calm during the whole ordeal.  Its not something one can train for. 
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mechanickal on February 13, 2017, 08:22:29 AM
I posted about buying an automatic center punch as my window break tool.  It hits really hard when depressed.  I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.  The real tough part is the remaining calm during the whole ordeal.  Its not something one can train for.
Unless you've got a pool and some spare cars...


Sadly the last 3 incidents where a car has hit the water, over here (which made the news) were all followed by the message that the driver passed away.
Thruth be told, 1-2 of those might have been suicide... :(
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mactire404 on February 13, 2017, 08:30:11 AM
I posted about buying an automatic center punch as my window break tool.  It hits really hard when depressed.  I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work.  The real tough part is the remaining calm during the whole ordeal.  Its not something one can train for.

Ah, great comment. In breaking the window I also don't see any reason why it won't work.
An automatic window break tool is in essence an automatic center punch.

The next question to ask is we have to ask is whether the center punch will deploy while submerged. As for the ResQme,I don't really have a doubt it will. But I will test it just to make sure.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: alexTOOL on February 13, 2017, 08:30:59 AM
It is said that drivers in Netherlands must pass a test in a submerged car in a swimming pool, with the help of divers.

Don't know if it is true.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mactire404 on February 13, 2017, 09:18:25 AM
It is said that drivers in Netherlands must pass a test in a submerged car in a swimming pool, with the help of divers.

Don't know if it is true.

 :rofl:

Well I know... and it isn't true.

I do think it would be a great addition to the driving lessons however.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mechanickal on February 13, 2017, 09:56:11 AM
It is said that drivers in Netherlands must pass a test in a submerged car in a swimming pool, with the help of divers.

Don't know if it is true.

 :rofl:

Well I know... and it isn't true.

I do think it would be a great addition to the driving lessons however.
Given your below sealevel cities it might not be a bad idea :D

Yet, where do you swim to afterworths? :facepalm:
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Aloha on February 13, 2017, 03:21:25 PM
So I found this which is very interesting.  The leverage using the headrest seems feasible however the car was not full submerged.
https://youtu.be/tZTa8Nh0VlE
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Aloha on February 13, 2017, 03:38:23 PM
Ok I found a video that show a window being broke while underwater.   The center punch he uses is the one I have.
https://youtu.be/rdqrduxK9To
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Aloha on February 13, 2017, 03:52:11 PM
After watching the video I realize a few things.

1. The temperature of the water is a big component.  Cold water will cause you to gasp making breathing and holding your breath difficult.
2. Depending on the body of water other problems such as the ability to see, obstructions ( ice ) can hinder making it to the surface, and again very cold water. 
3. Fluids from you vehicle will leach into the water and into the cabin where you are sitting.  These chemicals maybe ingested which can cause problems. 
4. Secondary drowning.  Even after a "successful" escape one can still die as a result of ingesting water/chemicals/pollutants.  Please look up secondary drowning.

Sorry to be so morbid.   

 
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mactire404 on February 13, 2017, 04:44:38 PM
...Sorry to be so morbid...
Thanks for the video!

Point 1 and 2 I am familiar with. I've dived in cold water numerous times and especially the first times are a real shocker.
Cold water makes you gasp for air which is a no-go if you don't have scuba gear at hand. Also, you are going to get the worst possible brainfreeze you can imagine.
Vision underwater can go from meters to centimetres in an instant. Combine this with night time conditions and you are blind.

So I won't call it morbid. Chances are if you drive your car in cold water at night and you let it flood, you are dead. That's just reality.

Point 3 and 4 are something I did not think of. And it's really hard to take precautions against this.
Perhaps the SpareAir (http://www.spareair.com/) is the best thing you can buy to buy you more time in a worst case scenario. However, at around $275,- a piece it's a very costly precaution as you need one for each passenger, and yourself.

When I'm at home I'm going to watch the video you posted, can't do it now since I'm at work.

Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mechanickal on February 13, 2017, 06:31:28 PM
After watching the video I realize a few things.

1. The temperature of the water is a big component.  Cold water will cause you to gasp making breathing and holding your breath difficult.
2. Depending on the body of water other problems such as the ability to see, obstructions ( ice ) can hinder making it to the surface, and again very cold water. 
3. Fluids from you vehicle will leach into the water and into the cabin where you are sitting.  These chemicals maybe ingested which can cause problems. 
4. Secondary drowning.  Even after a "successful" escape one can still die as a result of ingesting water/chemicals/pollutants.  Please look up secondary drowning.

Sorry to be so morbid.   
That's it... I can't take it no more!

My next car will be an amphibious!
Overseas hollidays will be a roadtrip too all of the sudden.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mactire404 on February 13, 2017, 06:38:39 PM
After watching the video I realize a few things.

1. The temperature of the water is a big component.  Cold water will cause you to gasp making breathing and holding your breath difficult.
2. Depending on the body of water other problems such as the ability to see, obstructions ( ice ) can hinder making it to the surface, and again very cold water. 
3. Fluids from you vehicle will leach into the water and into the cabin where you are sitting.  These chemicals maybe ingested which can cause problems. 
4. Secondary drowning.  Even after a "successful" escape one can still die as a result of ingesting water/chemicals/pollutants.  Please look up secondary drowning.

Sorry to be so morbid.   
That's it... I can't take it no more!

My next car will be an amphibious!
Overseas hollidays will be a roadtrip too all of the sudden.

Be carefull selecting your new car. The Russians had an amphobious car/tank in WWII that could drive through rivers. However, the car could topple and it would flood within 10 seconds! They equipped the drivers with rebreathers that fit between the knees.
To prevent fogging of the goggles they included antifog cream, which they could apply after toppeling over.  :rofl:
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mechanickal on February 13, 2017, 07:01:26 PM
After watching the video I realize a few things.

1. The temperature of the water is a big component.  Cold water will cause you to gasp making breathing and holding your breath difficult.
2. Depending on the body of water other problems such as the ability to see, obstructions ( ice ) can hinder making it to the surface, and again very cold water. 
3. Fluids from you vehicle will leach into the water and into the cabin where you are sitting.  These chemicals maybe ingested which can cause problems. 
4. Secondary drowning.  Even after a "successful" escape one can still die as a result of ingesting water/chemicals/pollutants.  Please look up secondary drowning.

Sorry to be so morbid.   
That's it... I can't take it no more!

My next car will be an amphibious!
Overseas hollidays will be a roadtrip too all of the sudden.

Be carefull selecting your new car. The Russians had an amphobious car/tank in WWII that could drive through rivers. However, the car could topple and it would flood within 10 seconds! They equipped the drivers with rebreathers that fit between the knees.
To prevent fogging of the goggles they included antifog cream, which they could apply after toppeling over.  :rofl:
Sounds more like a submarine to me :rofl:
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Aloha on February 13, 2017, 07:52:30 PM
Maybe one of these vehicles?  Cost prohibitive however.  Made in California.

https://youtu.be/dwHuKyG-eb4
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mechanickal on February 13, 2017, 09:00:05 PM
Maybe one of these vehicles?  Cost prohibitive however.  Made in California.

https://youtu.be/dwHuKyG-eb4
It's a convertible!
So even if it goes under, you won't need to break a window!
Now there's value for your money.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: eamo on March 19, 2017, 12:29:32 PM
excellent thread - been busy with work over the last few weeks and only now catching up ! I have resqme's on both sets of car keys, haven't tested one yet, i have been promised the use of a scrapped car before it goes to the scrap yard, should be an interesting experiment.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: fivesense on July 02, 2017, 11:41:52 PM
Provided you are conscious when you hit the water, activate your automatic window as soon as possible. Then you can spend the time extricating yourself, cutting seatbelts, etc...
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: zoidberg on July 02, 2017, 11:55:17 PM
Welcome to the boards five.   :cheers:
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Don Pablo on July 03, 2017, 12:04:39 AM
Welcome.  :cheers: :cheers:

-snip-
REMAINING CALM IS THE ANSWER (again)
Thats jamie hyneman's "zen" advice.   :D
(From when they tested escape from a sinking car methods)
Damn, I'm discovered!

Seriously though, was it??
I'm so late...
And yes. Episode 72, 'underwater car' I believe.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: fivesense on July 03, 2017, 04:00:32 AM
Welcome to the boards five.   :cheers:

Thank you Pablo. I poke around a couple other blade or edge forums and I'm looking forward to learning here. I like the vibe already!
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: ThePeacent on July 03, 2017, 06:09:26 PM
Welcome to the boards five.   :cheers:

Thank you Pablo. I poke around a couple other blade or edge forums and I'm looking forward to learning here. I like the vibe already!

Good vibes all around,  :cheers:!
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: noah on October 03, 2017, 02:53:21 AM
Pretty intense.  I dont know the answer for you but this is worth watching. 
https://youtu.be/q3_HEKMgqbE

Adam did a Reddit AMA sometime after that episode aired which tells the parts of that story that didn't make the original video. A few years old, so some of you may already have seen it (starts about 40 seconds in).

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v-eK_cpTsOw
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Aloha on October 06, 2017, 05:12:13 PM
Thanks for the video.  I think we can all agree that being submerged would be that last thing we'd want to happen.  I cannot recall if we determined the rate of success for those who have been submerged b :think:.  In any case really scary.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Lynn LeFey on December 01, 2017, 02:52:52 AM
I had an 8-week open water scuba certification course. I did 'buddy-breathing' with a 12-year-old kid that panicked, and snatched the respirator out of my mouth before i got a breath in our sharing cycle. I had a moment of panic, but I calmed right down. I guess I MADE myself calm right down. That was in a clean, clear swimming pool. Things probably get a lot scarier in murky, and potentially frigid water.

Luckily I'm fat, so I'm well insulated, and bob like a cork. :D

Also... we have ResQMe's on our car keys.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Etherealicer on December 01, 2017, 09:25:23 AM
I had an 8-week open water scuba certification course. I did 'buddy-breathing' with a 12-year-old kid that panicked, and snatched the respirator out of my mouth before i got a breath in our sharing cycle. I had a moment of panic, but I calmed right down. I guess I MADE myself calm right down. That was in a clean, clear swimming pool. Things probably get a lot scarier in murky, and potentially frigid water.

Luckily I'm fat, so I'm well insulated, and bob like a cork. :D

Also... we have ResQMe's on our car keys.
Panic is a deciding factor in such situations. Or more precisely, the managing thereof.

Easier said than done.

Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mactire404 on December 04, 2017, 01:01:52 PM
I had an 8-week open water scuba certification course. I did 'buddy-breathing' with a 12-year-old kid that panicked, and snatched the respirator out of my mouth before i got a breath in our sharing cycle. I had a moment of panic, but I calmed right down. I guess I MADE myself calm right down. That was in a clean, clear swimming pool. Things probably get a lot scarier in murky, and potentially frigid water.

Luckily I'm fat, so I'm well insulated, and bob like a cork. :D

Also... we have ResQMe's on our car keys.

You hit the nail on it's head I think. You MADE yourself calm right down.
I once got my respirator jerked from my mouth by someone who panicked (he lost his own mouthpiece). I must have inhaled out of a bad reflex because I had a mouth full of water and was starting to cough.
At that moment you need to realize that there are steps to take before you can breathe again. This takes control. As you said, you MAKE yourself calm.
It was a real eyeopener, recognizing the beginning of panic and then managing it.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Don Pablo on December 04, 2017, 03:11:48 PM
I heard you can administer a sharp slap to a panicking person to make them regain their senses. Probably doesn't work underwater, but just sayin'.  :whistle:
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mechanickal on December 04, 2017, 04:36:57 PM
I heard you can administer a sharp slap to a panicking person to make them regain their senses. Probably doesn't work underwater, but just sayin'.  :whistle:
I twaked you alot here on MTO and there's still no sense in you :whistle:




:twak: :twak:
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: eamo on December 04, 2017, 09:06:15 PM
I heard you can administer a sharp slap to a panicking person to make them regain their senses. Probably doesn't work underwater, but just sayin'.  :whistle:

you mean like this ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0GW0Vnr9Yc
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Syncop8r on August 17, 2019, 06:26:47 AM
Quote
A woman trapped with her two sons in a car after a dramatic crash managed to cut her seatbelt, smash a window and free them all - thanks to a low-cost rescue tool.

The Warkworth woman, identified only by her first name Mel, said the rescue could not have happened without the Resqme device she carries on her keyring - which includes a blade and a spring-loaded spike to break side windows.

Now she is encouraging others to be prepared in case of an emergency...
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/115079612/dramatic-car-crash-in-warkworth-ends-happily-thanks-to-lowcost-resqme-tool

Quote
Police are getting new tools to save them vital seconds in life-and-death rescues.

The change was prompted by the rescue of a woman from a sinking car in Auckland. The two officers involved had to ask a Fairfax photographer to pass them a rock after they failed to smash the car windows with their batons.

A total of 7900 "Resqme" spring-loaded glass-breaking tools, costing only $10 each, will now be issued to frontline officers nationwide. They can be attached by a keyring to the officers' belts.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/71190808/
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mactire404 on August 18, 2019, 10:18:29 PM
Cool article.
I've used mine once on an old car door and it's an instant exit.
Mine is on my carkeys and I have a second one in my pack because public transportation does not offer window breakers anymore.

The resQme is cheap and effective.I wouldn't wan to miss my resquetool, but would not want to miss my resQme either.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Aloha on August 19, 2019, 03:54:14 PM
I recall a conversation about the laminate windows in vehicles?  While the spring loaded device works well, I have a spring loaded center punch in my vehicle, I recall it may not be effective on laminate glass? 

FMVSS 226 occupant ejection mitigation requiring laminated side glass in all 2017 vehicles ( from net ). 
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Etherealicer on August 20, 2019, 09:59:38 AM
I recall a conversation about the laminate windows in vehicles?  While the spring loaded device works well, I have a spring loaded center punch in my vehicle, I recall it may not be effective on laminate glass? 

FMVSS 226 occupant ejection mitigation requiring laminated side glass in all 2017 vehicles ( from net ).
it really pays to figure out what kind of glass was used in your car (especially outside of the US, where there is no regulation (yet)).

ResqMe has a good video on that topic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oZokI0UrHI&t=7s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oZokI0UrHI&t=7s)
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: cody6268 on August 21, 2019, 03:51:29 AM
it really pays to figure out what kind of glass was used in your car (especially outside of the US, where there is no regulation (yet)).

ResqMe has a good video on that topic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oZokI0UrHI&t=7s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oZokI0UrHI&t=7s)

Soo; that means the 2015 Ford Escape (basically a Kuga for those of you outside of NA) my folks have has laminated glass. So, guess that means I'll need to pick up a Rescue Tool.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Aloha on August 21, 2019, 06:09:36 AM
You might want to double check. I believe the window will be marked "laminated".  Also you can check the top edge and see where the glass is laminated.   
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Etherealicer on August 21, 2019, 03:53:38 PM
Soo; that means the 2015 Ford Escape (basically a Kuga for those of you outside of NA) my folks have has laminated glass. So, guess that means I'll need to pick up a Rescue Tool.
And gloves...
Depending on your physical abilities, you might be better off pushing the front windshield out with your legs, rather than cutting the window open with the Rescue Tool. Though it seems to be though too (I have seen a video of a girl doing it, more flexibility, less strength, but I can't find it presently).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI7ZBw8E_ms (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI7ZBw8E_ms)
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Aloha on August 21, 2019, 04:10:54 PM
Since the thread is about Submerged/Flooded vehicle I'm afraid time is of essence.  Getting out of the vehicle quickly is going to be rather tricky.  Not sure kicking out windshield would be very effective or possible.     

As to what tools in an accident to assist you or others not submerged or flooded?  Depending on the situation time may still be a factor.  If vehicle is on fire for example.  I have a spring loaded center punch in my vehicle. I also have gloves at the ready.   The idea of a submerged vehicle really scares me whether me or someone I am trying to help. 

 
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Etherealicer on August 22, 2019, 03:23:09 PM
Since the thread is about Submerged/Flooded vehicle I'm afraid time is of essence.  Getting out of the vehicle quickly is going to be rather tricky.  Not sure kicking out windshield would be very effective or possible.     

As to what tools in an accident to assist you or others not submerged or flooded?  Depending on the situation time may still be a factor.  If vehicle is on fire for example.  I have a spring loaded center punch in my vehicle. I also have gloves at the ready.   The idea of a submerged vehicle really scares me whether me or someone I am trying to help.
Spring loaded is clearly your best option if you have tempered side windows... it is useless if you have laminated side windows.

Alternatives are:
- Pushing out the windshield with your legs (takes strength and a degree of flexibility)
- Disc saw (exhausting, slow)
- Big axe (needs room to operate, heavy)
- Get a powered glass cutter (e.g. THE RIPPER) (higher cost / maintenance)
- anything else?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=MAaOEwPrXbA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=MAaOEwPrXbA)
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Aloha on August 22, 2019, 03:33:16 PM
Anything needing a battery will require keeping an eye on to keep charged  :dunno:.  I keep coming back to submerged and with that the options are very limited I think.  Getting out of the vehicle will be challenging to say the least.  We saw myth busters and he had a heck of a time.  I think the verdict was not good. 

Now as for helping someone, I think "easy" is best.  Watching the video of the Victorinox Rescue Tool handle that windshield was promising even for someone hurried.  Not much help if that person is you in the submerged car sadly.   

Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: ThePeacent on August 22, 2019, 04:22:05 PM

- anything else?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=MAaOEwPrXbA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=MAaOEwPrXbA)

a loaded handgun  :D
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Etherealicer on August 23, 2019, 03:57:57 PM
a loaded handgun  :D
If my understanding is correct then that won't work... would create a small hole and some spider web, but it would still be in place and not shatter. After all if you take thick enough laminated glass it is what is called "bullet proof glass" (correct would be bullet resistant).
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mactire404 on August 23, 2019, 05:35:07 PM
I recall a conversation about the laminate windows in vehicles?  While the spring loaded device works well, I have a spring loaded center punch in my vehicle, I recall it may not be effective on laminate glass? 

FMVSS 226 occupant ejection mitigation requiring laminated side glass in all 2017 vehicles ( from net ).

This is a serious consideration.
I once had a talk with a fireman that just returned from a scene with a crashed Seat. The car was front first in a ditch with water and rubble. Because if the laminated and plastic windows they could not use a window smasher and had to cut open the car with one of these...
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_rescue_tools#/media/File%3A03262012Demonstraciones_rescate_erum_fabian_acu%C3%B1a137.JPG)
Where this takes the firemen an unnecesary long time to get in a vehicle it also means that the driver isn't always able to get out of a car.
Keep this in mind.

By the way, the ResqueTool has a window saw. This is for cutting laminated front windows.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: cody6268 on September 02, 2019, 04:24:45 AM
This is a serious consideration.
I once had a talk with a fireman that just returned from a scene with a crashed Seat. The car was front first in a ditch with water and rubble. Because if the laminated and plastic windows they could not use a window smasher and had to cut open the car with one of these...
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_rescue_tools#/media/File%3A03262012Demonstraciones_rescate_erum_fabian_acu%C3%B1a137.JPG)
Where this takes the firemen an unnecesary long time to get in a vehicle it also means that the driver isn't always able to get out of a car.
Keep this in mind.

By the way, the ResqueTool has a window saw. This is for cutting laminated front windows.


And today's cars are tough to access even using hydraulic rescue equipment. Today's hydraulic rescue tools are designed to pry and cut today's modern automotive materials (such as boron steel). Older sets aren't engineered to handle these materials and design, but departments can't afford them, and in some cases, are stuck with first generation sets from the '70s and '80s.  Jaws of Life/Hydraulic Rescue sets these days are in the  $50,000 range, and most departments simply can't afford that. Around here, funding exists, but is going to tourism and business ventures instead of where needed.I know of front line trucks that date to the '70s. My town's heavy rescue is close to 30 years old; and their crash truck 15.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Mactire404 on September 03, 2019, 11:21:32 AM

And today's cars are tough to access even using hydraulic rescue equipment. Today's hydraulic rescue tools are designed to pry and cut today's modern automotive materials (such as boron steel). Older sets aren't engineered to handle these materials and design, but departments can't afford them, and in some cases, are stuck with first generation sets from the '70s and '80s.  Jaws of Life/Hydraulic Rescue sets these days are in the  $50,000 range, and most departments simply can't afford that. Around here, funding exists, but is going to tourism and business ventures instead of where needed.I know of front line trucks that date to the '70s. My town's heavy rescue is close to 30 years old; and their crash truck 15.

Also, cutting the beams (holding the roof) almost requires a EOD team with the high possibility of airbags in place. Cutting one can make them co pop, endangering the fireman or the passengers.
I don't envy firemen these days.
Title: Re: Rescue Tools in submerged/flooded cars
Post by: Etherealicer on September 03, 2019, 12:01:30 PM
Also, cutting the beams (holding the roof) almost requires a EOD team with the high possibility of airbags in place. Cutting one can make them co pop, endangering the fireman or the passengers.
I don't envy firemen these days.
Man I never envied people who have to go to accident sites... but I think I would prefer a slightly more difficult rescue of less injured person to the "good old days". Seriously, the improvement in structural integrity means the driver/passengers are less badly injured (less loss of limbs because the windows stay in place, less crushing as the whole carbine is stronger). It also means that if the heavy gear has to come out, the airbags have already been deployed, so no danger there.
Furthermore it makes braking into cars and carjacking harder.