Nice one, Cap'n! :D
@captain spaulding
Nice one... :tu:
And welcome to the club. :)
Is there any chance that you know the model name, number, year of manufacture...anything?
I really dont belong in the club...
I bought this for a dollar, owned it for a week, wiped it with a soft cloth then sold it.
Not very old, but I love this one, much better quality than present models.(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/19/pujudy9e.jpg)
Enviado desde mi iPad con Tapatalk
That's rigth, Victoria Crossbow tang stamp and is 84mm.Not very old, but I love this one, much better quality than present models.(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/19/pujudy9e.jpg)
Enviado desde mi iPad con Tapatalk
But it is old enough... :) Victoria crossbow tang stamp on the other side, right? And the frame size is...? Do you have any details regarding this particular model? Thanks.
That's rigth, Victoria Crossbow tang stamp and is 84mm.Not very old, but I love this one, much better quality than present models.(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/19/pujudy9e.jpg)
Enviado desde mi iPad con Tapatalk
But it is old enough... :) Victoria crossbow tang stamp on the other side, right? And the frame size is...? Do you have any details regarding this particular model? Thanks.
Not very old, but I love this one, much better quality than present models.(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/19/pujudy9e.jpg)
Some of my oldies.
From the late 40s. I think it is a model 146.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll211/gigahzfemtohz/246E096_zps7dffb4ec.jpg) (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/gigahzfemtohz/media/246E096_zps7dffb4ec.jpg.html)
1958-1961 Model 134kU, aka Tinker or Tinker Small. I'd say 50 years old is old enough to be vintage.Not very old, but I love this one, much better quality than present models.(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/19/pujudy9e.jpg)
From the late 40s. I think it is a model 146.
1958-1961 Model 134kU, aka Tinker or Tinker Small. I'd say 50 years old is old enough to be vintage.That's nice, thought it was early 70's! I have a 91mm very similar, a Fisherman will take picture later.Not very old, but I love this one, much better quality than present models.(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/19/pujudy9e.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/20/tu6e8y2e.jpg)
Sweet LNF. I didn't know they came in Rangers.
Some of my oldies.
Nice oldies you have there, PTRSAK...just beautiful. :)
Any additional info regarding frame size, model name, number, year of manufacture will be much appreciate it...
I thought about posting some of the SAKs I have pictures of, but most have been posted in other threads here and I'm sure most are sick of seeing the same knives over and over. Here are three interesting ones I don't think I've posted before. The Cadillac is interesting in that it's much newer than you usually see for this model. You don't typically see them after about 1972.The Huntsman small of your trade list is :drool: :drool:
(http://sakinfo.com/bbsimg/MVNTRangerLNF.jpg)
(http://sakinfo.com/bbsimg/MVNTFischermesser.jpg)
(http://sakinfo.com/bbsimg/TRANCadillac.JPG)
I thought about posting some of the SAKs I have pictures of, but most have been posted in other threads here and I'm sure most are sick of seeing the same knives over and over. Here are three interesting ones I don't think I've posted before. The Cadillac is interesting in that it's much newer than you usually see for this model. You don't typically see them after about 1972.
Some of my oldies.
Nice oldies you have there, PTRSAK...just beautiful. :)
Any additional info regarding frame size, model name, number, year of manufacture will be much appreciate it...
Will supply more details when I get home. Also got some others that will fit in this thread...
Before and after shots of my old Wenger with dog-leg opener and non-backspring scissors.
I have had this knife since I was a kid. It is what brought me to MTO in the first place searching for info on it.
I decided to retire it and give it a makeover with brass liners and polishing the aluminium scales I made for it 20 years ago.
(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/Peter_Thorpe/P6140949_zps873b11f7.jpg) (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Peter_Thorpe/media/P6140949_zps873b11f7.jpg.html)
(http://i1309.photobucket.com/albums/s640/Peter_Thorpe/Final_A_zps6be2143f.jpg) (http://s1309.photobucket.com/user/Peter_Thorpe/media/Final_A_zps6be2143f.jpg.html)
Here is my rather uncommon Wenger. Found this on Craigslist.
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad112/ChadV_2010/Knives%20and%20MT%203/DSC04190.jpg) (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/ChadV_2010/media/Knives%20and%20MT%203/DSC04190.jpg.html)
Here is my rather uncommon Wenger. Found this on Craigslist.
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad112/ChadV_2010/Knives%20and%20MT%203/DSC04190.jpg) (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/ChadV_2010/media/Knives%20and%20MT%203/DSC04190.jpg.html)
Is that a pate spreader? :think:
I like that last one because it has a mirrored can opener where you would expect a bottle opener or maybe a combo tool.
Here's a couple of mine :)
The combination of the sharpened bottle opener, patent marked can opener, clip shaped pen blade, and shackle on this old Victoria Champion places it at around 1968, according to what I have been able to gather. It also has the file on the Phillips screwdriver, but does not have a long nail file, nor does it have toothpick and tweezers. The wood saw is also finished with a very high polish.
Here's a couple of mine :)
Hey! Isn't one of those mine now? (5th from the top) :cheers:
Here's a couple of mine :)
Hey! Isn't one of those mine now? (5th from the top) :cheers:The combination of the sharpened bottle opener, patent marked can opener, clip shaped pen blade, and shackle on this old Victoria Champion places it at around 1968, according to what I have been able to gather. It also has the file on the Phillips screwdriver, but does not have a long nail file, nor does it have toothpick and tweezers. The wood saw is also finished with a very high polish.
This is a Master Craftsman, not a Champion. Model 136mU if you want to be precise. The polished saw would date it to around 1962-1963. Very nice knife.
This one is not too special, but I just opened the package today and there is some sun for pics so...
84mm Brass Liners, spacer, pins. Only the one tang stamp. Can't remember the name for these scales. I can't remember if this one is much different than me or others have shown in the past but the brass liners I really like.
the term vintage seems to have different levels.
all I have is this, not that vintage
Very nice everyone! Here is mine.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/30/9erujaje.jpg)
84mm Huntsman
that's us mobile
the term vintage seems to have different levels.
all I have is this, not that vintage
Very nice everyone! Here is mine.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/30/9erujaje.jpg)
84mm Huntsman
that's us mobile
the term vintage seems to have different levels.
all I have is this, not that vintage
That counts IMO. Everyone's terminology is different, but I consider anything before 1970 "vintage". Here are some of my older Lumberjacks from the 1950s. Interestingly, the pins on both the 240kUs are brass, not nickel-silver. These are the only knives from the era I've ever seen with brass pins, but I've seen it consistently on these 240kU models. The 1240kU is a very early Elinox model - if you look close enough you can kind of see the unpolished main and pen blades.
(http://sakinfo.com/bbsimg/OldLumberjacks.jpg)
That is correct.Very nice everyone! Here is mine.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/30/9erujaje.jpg)
84mm Huntsman
that's us mobile
Nice! What are the tang stamps on the main blade? Armee Suisse/Inoxyd?
No official ID yet, but it's like an old exposed rivets Pocket Pal with Scissors and LNF
Here`s a vintage victoria knife, 113 mm.
(http://de.myalbum.com/GroteFoto-8IQYTGJO.jpg)
(http://de.myalbum.com/GroteFoto-DCYVMHPG.jpg)
(http://de.myalbum.com/GroteFoto-APZRWXHP.jpg)
(http://de.myalbum.com/GroteFoto-C3K4XJLU.jpg)
No official ID yet, but it's like an old exposed rivets Pocket Pal with Scissors and LNF
I love it. I'd say it's a 75 aCr+ but that may have been a 75mm SAK.
FarmWork Knife, N°310Great knife :drool: :drool:
FarmWork Knife, N°310Wow!!!
Necro of a thread that I think needs to continue because people should see come of the classy old SAKs that Vic' and Wenger used to make.
So people, get that old stuff out and show it off.
An old Wenger with carbon steel blades and aluminum handles.
Been showing some old Wengers. Here's some old horn-handled Vics to balance them.
Been showing some old Wengers. Here's some old horn-handled Vics to balance them.
My application to the club (playing "Spot the Wenger" - hint: Not the one you'd think of :P ) :
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8vk4BP4Yr8w/VPoIRWRnHII/AAAAAAAAFpg/ymWFcHlWrKA/w871-h577-no/vintage.jpg)
Vintage Victoria 84mm Climber with long nail file and bail. More images on my blog here. (http://sakfan.blogspot.com/)
Vintage Victoria 84mm Climber with long nail file and bail. More images on my blog here. (http://sakfan.blogspot.com/)
You have a lovely peace there... :tu:
Vintage Victoria 84mm Climber with long nail file and bail. More images on my blog here. (http://sakfan.blogspot.com/)
You have a lovely peace there... :tu:
A couple of nice old MoP Vics.
A couple of nice old MoP Vics.
And here is one of mine, Victoria LNF Champion with MoP scales, mint condition:
(http://www.vicfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/victorinox-victoria-champion-lnf-mop-640x480.jpg)
Here's something I noticed on that MoP Champion (I thought it was mint, but this pic says otherwise, there is a dent in one of the liners. It's also a bit dirty :o ): the toothpick is in the center of the scale just like on 58mm and 74mm SAKs. It is in fact a small toothpick as found on the smaller SAKs. Never noticed this on any other knife.I'd guess the knife must be flush peened on that end/side......maybe both sides?
(http://www.vicfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/victorinox-champion-mop-asymmetrical.jpg)
Edit: I don't understand this. One of the pins should be there!? When I remove the toothpick there's no rivet :think:
Here's something I noticed on that MoP Champion (I thought it was mint, but this pic says otherwise, there is a dent in one of the liners. It's also a bit dirty :o ): the toothpick is in the center of the scale just like on 58mm and 74mm SAKs. It is in fact a small toothpick as found on the smaller SAKs. Never noticed this on any other knife.
(http://www.vicfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/victorinox-champion-mop-asymmetrical.jpg)
Edit: I don't understand this. One of the pins should be there!? When I remove the toothpick there's no rivet :think:
:like:Very nice!
Let's move on, keep ’em coming guys and gals... :tu:
My contribution:
Woodsman, Artisan, Camper, Standard, Golfer
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/1cf22071b064631e0c5d9dd396e6795c.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you! :cheers: One more in route, I think it's a Huntsman. I'll update the photo when it's in hand.My contribution:
Woodsman, Artisan, Camper, Standard, Golfer
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/1cf22071b064631e0c5d9dd396e6795c.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wow, great collection all together, well done :cheers: :like:
Until we are all waiting for a newest FolderBeholder acquisition which I'm looking forward to see it also, I presume you are eager to see something like this: NOS No 236 aka small Huntsman :tu:Wow, beauty! Does it have a small clip point blade as well?
Until we are all waiting for a newest FolderBeholder acquisition which I'm looking forward to see it also, I presume you are eager to see something like this: NOS No 236 aka small Huntsman :tu:
My contribution:
Woodsman, Artisan, Camper, Standard, Golfer
Until we are all waiting for a newest FolderBeholder acquisition which I'm looking forward to see it also, I presume you are eager to see something like this: NOS No 236 aka small Huntsman :tu:
Love this knife - I have a NOS one as well that I paid a not-insignificant amount of money for. Probably just a typo, but this is a 246ka, not a 236ka (the difference being that a 236 wouldn't have the LNF). And given FolderBeholder's penchant for NOS knives with boxes, I'm going to put money on her joining the NOS 246ka club with us since one of those just sold on eBay a little while back.
A pair of old Victorinox gardening knives with bone handles.:like:
A pair of old Victorinox gardening knives with bone handles.
:cheers:Until we are all waiting for a newest FolderBeholder acquisition which I'm looking forward to see it also, I presume you are eager to see something like this: NOS No 236 aka small Huntsman :tu:
Love this knife - I have a NOS one as well that I paid a not-insignificant amount of money for. Probably just a typo, but this is a 246ka, not a 236ka (the difference being that a 236 wouldn't have the LNF). And given FolderBeholder's penchant for NOS knives with boxes, I'm going to put money on her joining the NOS 246ka club with us since one of those just sold on eBay a little while back.
Until we are all waiting for a newest FolderBeholder acquisition which I'm looking forward to see it also,
Victorinox 236 a U:like:
Victorinox 236 a U:like:
This is my only Vintage Sak, A pre saw Camper:drool: :like: :drool:
I think at one time they added the saw, still calling it Camper, and invented the name Spartan for the existing model.
That's a nice one FB. If you send it to me you can have my Camper. :D :like::rofl: Campers are my weakness, but this time I better pass on the offer. :cheers:
:like: :like: :drool: :drool: :tu: :tu:Exactly what I am over here doing. I had no idea until today just how pristine this is. The photos in the auction didn't show off its beauty.
:like: :like: :drool: :drool: :tu: :tu:
Thanks SAK Guy! :cheers::like: :like: :drool: :drool: :tu: :tu:
:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
I have a question about the toothpick. It seems like mine is almost see-through or translucent. Does that seem right? :think:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/349/31473464314_4ce0248a03_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PXcJqs)
The most expensive SAK I own:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170114/5840ec267e31a0ea43ae3fa129404227.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170114/c915836d361596bfa4b4f0e83897b8c4.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170114/59263e17ca1eeb63beeb2aa28ca8a0a5.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170114/ec4fa353cb3d36b64aa29ef8e0be531a.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170114/5b841cf8c701bec72bf6a418159756a1.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have a question about the toothpick. It seems like mine is almost see-through or translucent. Does that seem right? :think:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/349/31473464314_4ce0248a03_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/PXcJqs)
Yep, normal. Mine's the same way.
Just got this old WENGER 92mm mod. 927 (Angler toolset) with not very common blade stamp INOXIDABLE with CB instead of usual WENGERINOX CB. The same WENGER blade stamp was shown here once so it is not fake :). It is interesting that this model has only tweesers and no tooth peak. Do you have any info about age?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170121/e5a297f5a944b760b9ceda744bd4e331.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170121/543303608f8fe1e5bbcf86eb28e73459.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Thank you, M0rkoni!Just got this old WENGER 92mm mod. 927 (Angler toolset) with not very common blade stamp INOXIDABLE with CB instead of usual WENGERINOX CB. The same WENGER blade stamp was shown here once so it is not fake :). It is interesting that this model has only tweesers and no tooth peak. Do you have any info about age?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170121/e5a297f5a944b760b9ceda744bd4e331.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170121/543303608f8fe1e5bbcf86eb28e73459.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
This should be a model 927 from the late 50' early 60'...
Nice find... :like:
A pair of old Wengers, the small one is 2 layer and the larger one is 4 layers ("Huntsman" pattern):like: :like:
Unfortunately both have one broken backspring so now the search is on for replacement parts.
Luckily they still look good in the display case :-)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5763/31826007971_8f490a456a_b.jpg)
Finally I got a Victorinox knife with this stamp: JNOXID! Another side stamp is VICTORIA with crossbow, so this knife is from 1920s. It is 90,5 mm long, has brass liners, nickel silver bolsters and fiber scales. There is an advertisement on the one scale: "Schweiz. Baubedarf A.G. Herzogenbuchsee".
This knife is very similar to mod. 304 from 1942 Elsener Catalog.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170202/bce05d8e5ce6d7d5d81c317d29c47e4c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170202/0b4bca313313efbbb53c1a1655788fbb.jpg)
Together with Soldiers mod.1908 and mod.1951.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170202/06423b17d8bcf2428ca1db8ae7d62b48.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Finally I got a Victorinox knife with this stamp: JNOXID! Another side stamp is VICTORIA with crossbow, so this knife is from 1920s. It is 90,5 mm long, has brass liners, nickel silver bolsters and fiber scales. There is an advertisement on the one scale: "Schweiz. Baubedarf A.G. Herzogenbuchsee".
This knife is very similar to mod. 304 from 1942 Elsener Catalog.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170202/bce05d8e5ce6d7d5d81c317d29c47e4c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170202/0b4bca313313efbbb53c1a1655788fbb.jpg)
Together with Soldiers mod.1908 and mod.1951.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170202/06423b17d8bcf2428ca1db8ae7d62b48.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It's a this one just on one side:Thank you.
:D I :like: that saw!!!Same here! :like:
My contribution:
Woodsman, Artisan, Camper, Standard, Golfer
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/1cf22071b064631e0c5d9dd396e6795c.jpg)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Same one I posted a while back, but the pics are no longer there. Go tit from a guy on Craigslist years ago. Think I paid $30ish for it. Can't really remember.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7378/27726175730_13468fe0fd_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7431/28006275945_10d4a20874_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7281/27971654086_a2df4a8b0c_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7413/27392949024_1c9583ab8e_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7080/27726078820_b6d970d55b_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7509/27392947074_0d2c2d3718_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7258/28006270835_4bfb2d32b6_b.jpg)
got an older Champion with a bail on it today. I really wanted a thicker bail SAK, and am glad to have this, I call it the File king.
File #1
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz255/detronphillips/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_184112.jpg) (http://s833.photobucket.com/user/detronphillips/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_184112.jpg.html)
File #2
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz255/detronphillips/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_183906.jpg) (http://s833.photobucket.com/user/detronphillips/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_183906.jpg.html)
File #3
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz255/detronphillips/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_184031.jpg) (http://s833.photobucket.com/user/detronphillips/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_184031.jpg.html)
the most files I have on one SAK. :tu:
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz255/detronphillips/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_183802.jpg) (http://s833.photobucket.com/user/detronphillips/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_183802.jpg.html)
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz255/detronphillips/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_184145.jpg) (http://s833.photobucket.com/user/detronphillips/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_184145.jpg.html)
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz255/detronphillips/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_184210.jpg) (http://s833.photobucket.com/user/detronphillips/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_184210.jpg.html)
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz255/detronphillips/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_184249.jpg) (http://s833.photobucket.com/user/detronphillips/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_184249.jpg.html)
got an older Champion with a bail on it today. I really wanted a thicker bail SAK, and am glad to have this, I call it the File king.
got an older Champion with a bail on it today. I really wanted a thicker bail SAK, and am glad to have this, I call it the File king.
File #1
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz255/detronphillips/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_184112.jpg) (http://s833.photobucket.com/user/detronphillips/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_184112.jpg.html)
File #2
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz255/detronphillips/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_183906.jpg) (http://s833.photobucket.com/user/detronphillips/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_183906.jpg.html)
File #3
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz255/detronphillips/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_184031.jpg) (http://s833.photobucket.com/user/detronphillips/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20170207_184031.jpg.html)
the most files I have on one SAK. :tu:
Same one I posted a while back, but the pics are no longer there. Go tit from a guy on Craigslist years ago. Think I paid $30ish for it. Can't really remember.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7378/27726175730_13468fe0fd_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7431/28006275945_10d4a20874_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7281/27971654086_a2df4a8b0c_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7413/27392949024_1c9583ab8e_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7080/27726078820_b6d970d55b_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7509/27392947074_0d2c2d3718_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7258/28006270835_4bfb2d32b6_b.jpg)
It is file/snow scriper :) Nice knife!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170213/8ff9ea2658b9b4fa37f69ecba541cf05.jpg)Same one I posted a while back, but the pics are no longer there. Go tit from a guy on Craigslist years ago. Think I paid $30ish for it. Can't really remember.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7378/27726175730_13468fe0fd_b.jpg)
That's a very nice one! :like:
Does it have two large knife blades, or is the rounded blade something else?
Old model number key for the curious
First, the main number:
1xx = Phillips, 2xx = Corkscrew.
x34 = blades, openers
x35 = blades, openers, scissors
x36 = blades, openers, scissors, saw
x37 = blades, openers, saw
x45 = blades, openers, scissors w/ LNF
x46 = blades, openers, scissors w/ LNF, saw
Then the letters after:
k = 84mm (klein). No k = 91mm
a = toothpick/tweezers
f = fish scaler
m = metal file
U = bail/keyring
There are other numbers like 248k that are just assigned and don't really follow a pattern.
Just one more question for JB - or anybody - When did they switch from numeric models like this to the named models we know today?
I'm guessing the 60's sometime - Maybe earlier?
got an older Champion with a bail on it today. I really wanted a thicker bail SAK, and am glad to have this, I call it the File king.
the most files I have on one SAK. :tu:
got an older Champion with a bail on it today. I really wanted a thicker bail SAK, and am glad to have this, I call it the File king.
the most files I have on one SAK. :tu:
The first *real* vintage SAK I ever bought was a Champion LNF almost identical to this one. I still remember being fascinated with the absurd number of different files on it. Great addition to your collection.
got an older Champion with a bail on it today. I really wanted a thicker bail SAK, and am glad to have this, I call it the file king.The first *real* vintage SAK I ever bought was a Champion LNF almost identical to this one. I still remember being fascinated with the absurd number of different files on it....
the most files I have on one SAK.
So is it possible that the 6 layer was not even called the Champion?
1. Champion CS LNF (Model 246fmaU) - 6 layers, LNF, corkscrew, 1952-1974
2. Champion LNF (Model 146fmaU) - 6 layers, LNF, Phillips, 1952-1974
3. Handyman Original (Model 236fmaU) - 6 layers, corkscrew, 1973-1986
4. Craftsman Original* (Model 136fmaU) - 6 layers, Phillips, 1973-1986
5. Champion (Model 1.5793/1.6783) - 7 layers, mag/Phillips, 1973-present
It is file/snow scriper :) Nice knife!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170213/8ff9ea2658b9b4fa37f69ecba541cf05.jpg)Same one I posted a while back, but the pics are no longer there. Go tit from a guy on Craigslist years ago. Think I paid $30ish for it. Can't really remember.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7378/27726175730_13468fe0fd_b.jpg)
That's a very nice one! :like:
Does it have two large knife blades, or is the rounded blade something else?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The knife in the middle is a Champion with the lanyard bail and exposed rivets. On the back it has the triangular awl, phillips that is round on the outside edge, but square on the opposite edge with a file on the back of it, and a long fingernail file with the best tip for cleaning fingernails that I have ever used.What stamp is on the can opener : US.PAT.PEND. or + PAT?
The main blade has a cross bow and VICTORIA OFFICIER on the one side of the tang and VICTORINOX SWITZERLAND STAINLESS on the other.
The small blade is a clip blade and it also has scissors, wood saw (with rounded off end), metal file(with rounded off end), fish scaler, arc style can opener( with a cross and Pat.), and bottle opener.
I was at a gun and knife show in Dayton, OH. about 10 years ago and there was a guy whose table just had a bunch of odds and ends on it. I spotted a an old Victorinox box, so I asked if I could see it and it turned out to be a NOS Champion....it had never been used, so I asked how much he wanted and he said $10.00.
Obviously he was not into knives .......you never saw anybody go for their wallet as fast as I did..... I could not believe he did not want more.......that was the only time I have ever stumbled on to such a good deal in my life.
The tweezers have a nickel/silver tip on them. 1956 was the last year for the nickel/silver tip on the tweezers(it was changed to aluminum in 1957), so it has to be between 1951 and 1956, since the arc style can opener was introduced in 1951. I had only seen pictures of the exposed rivet models prior to that, and I have never run into another exposed rivet
model since.
to captain spaulding
:salute: Cool knife!
The knife in the middle is a Champion with the lanyard bail and exposed rivets. On the back it has the triangular awl, phillips that is round on the outside edge, but square on the opposite edge with a file on the back of it, and a long fingernail file with the best tip for cleaning fingernails that I have ever used.What stamp is on the can opener : US.PAT.PEND. or + PAT?
The main blade has a cross bow and VICTORIA OFFICIER on the one side of the tang and VICTORINOX SWITZERLAND STAINLESS on the other.
The small blade is a clip blade and it also has scissors, wood saw (with rounded off end), metal file(with rounded off end), fish scaler, arc style can opener( with a cross and Pat.), and bottle opener.
I was at a gun and knife show in Dayton, OH. about 10 years ago and there was a guy whose table just had a bunch of odds and ends on it. I spotted a an old Victorinox box, so I asked if I could see it and it turned out to be a NOS Champion....it had never been used, so I asked how much he wanted and he said $10.00.
Obviously he was not into knives .......you never saw anybody go for their wallet as fast as I did..... I could not believe he did not want more.......that was the only time I have ever stumbled on to such a good deal in my life.
The tweezers have a nickel/silver tip on them. 1956 was the last year for the nickel/silver tip on the tweezers(it was changed to aluminum in 1957), so it has to be between 1951 and 1956, since the arc style can opener was introduced in 1951. I had only seen pictures of the exposed rivet models prior to that, and I have never run into another exposed rivet
model since.
Thank you! Nice knife from 1953-1957, I have the same one and try to find Champion with US.PAT.PEND. but unsuccessfully >:(The knife in the middle is a Champion with the lanyard bail and exposed rivets. On the back it has the triangular awl, phillips that is round on the outside edge, but square on the opposite edge with a file on the back of it, and a long fingernail file with the best tip for cleaning fingernails that I have ever used.What stamp is on the can opener : US.PAT.PEND. or + PAT?
The main blade has a cross bow and VICTORIA OFFICIER on the one side of the tang and VICTORINOX SWITZERLAND STAINLESS on the other.
The small blade is a clip blade and it also has scissors, wood saw (with rounded off end), metal file(with rounded off end), fish scaler, arc style can opener( with a cross and Pat.), and bottle opener.
I was at a gun and knife show in Dayton, OH. about 10 years ago and there was a guy whose table just had a bunch of odds and ends on it. I spotted a an old Victorinox box, so I asked if I could see it and it turned out to be a NOS Champion....it had never been used, so I asked how much he wanted and he said $10.00.
Obviously he was not into knives .......you never saw anybody go for their wallet as fast as I did..... I could not believe he did not want more.......that was the only time I have ever stumbled on to such a good deal in my life.
The tweezers have a nickel/silver tip on them. 1956 was the last year for the nickel/silver tip on the tweezers(it was changed to aluminum in 1957), so it has to be between 1951 and 1956, since the arc style can opener was introduced in 1951. I had only seen pictures of the exposed rivet models prior to that, and I have never run into another exposed rivet
model since.
+PAT
Thanks for the info...hope you eventually find the one with US.PAT.PENDThank you! Nice knife from 1953-1957, I have the same one and try to find Champion with US.PAT.PEND. but unsuccessfully >:(The knife in the middle is a Champion with the lanyard bail and exposed rivets. On the back it has the triangular awl, phillips that is round on the outside edge, but square on the opposite edge with a file on the back of it, and a long fingernail file with the best tip for cleaning fingernails that I have ever used.What stamp is on the can opener : US.PAT.PEND. or + PAT?
The main blade has a cross bow and VICTORIA OFFICIER on the one side of the tang and VICTORINOX SWITZERLAND STAINLESS on the other.
The small blade is a clip blade and it also has scissors, wood saw (with rounded off end), metal file(with rounded off end), fish scaler, arc style can opener( with a cross and Pat.), and bottle opener.
I was at a gun and knife show in Dayton, OH. about 10 years ago and there was a guy whose table just had a bunch of odds and ends on it. I spotted a an old Victorinox box, so I asked if I could see it and it turned out to be a NOS Champion....it had never been used, so I asked how much he wanted and he said $10.00.
Obviously he was not into knives .......you never saw anybody go for their wallet as fast as I did..... I could not believe he did not want more.......that was the only time I have ever stumbled on to such a good deal in my life.
The tweezers have a nickel/silver tip on them. 1956 was the last year for the nickel/silver tip on the tweezers(it was changed to aluminum in 1957), so it has to be between 1951 and 1956, since the arc style can opener was introduced in 1951. I had only seen pictures of the exposed rivet models prior to that, and I have never run into another exposed rivet
model since.
+PAT
Anyone know the possible age of this one? I have it inbound:
Armee Suisse on one side.
Thank you RS and JB, I'm unsure of the model name also. I have been seeking a SAK with the old style can opener.Anyone know the possible age of this one? I have it inbound:
Armee Suisse on one side.
c. 1944-1946. This would be the last of the old style can openers before the crab claw type was introduced in 1946.
Looks like a Tourist, no?
Anyone know the possible age of this one? I have it inbound:
Armee Suisse on one side.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2858/32771436782_dd1dd392a4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RVUbq7)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2357/32544599730_26f8f43f17_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RzRzEs)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2319/32884758066_9e23ecb6d6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S6UYTm)
I'm going to put it in the database as 205kU, thanks JB!Could you please tell me, which kind of database you're using for storing information about knives?
I'm going to put it in the database as 205kU, thanks JB!Could you please tell me, which kind of database you're using for storing information about knives?
Thanks in advance!
I enjoyed the video, thank you! :cheers:
Nice find FolderBeholder!
Since you are finding some nice old Vics, I thought you might like this video on the evolution of the can opener....it not only shows the different styles, but shows how the can opener switched ends on the knife in 1951
I enjoyed the video, thank you! :cheers:
Nice find FolderBeholder!
Since you are finding some nice old Vics, I thought you might like this video on the evolution of the can opener....it not only shows the different styles, but shows how the can opener switched ends on the knife in 1951
Anyone know the possible age of this one? I have it inbound:
Armee Suisse on one side.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2858/32771436782_dd1dd392a4_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RVUbq7)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2357/32544599730_26f8f43f17_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RzRzEs)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2319/32884758066_9e23ecb6d6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/S6UYTm)
Thank you, I see the distinct difference. :tu:
Here is a copy of a chart of tang stamps...you will notice there are 2 versions of Armee Suisse that were used...one from 1891 - 1935 and the other from 1935 - 1951
I'm going to put it in the database as 205kU, thanks JB!Could you please tell me, which kind of database you're using for storing information about knives?
Thanks in advance!
At this time, I am using a database program written for the fountain pen collecting community (which I belong to).
It's a free program for Mac or PC, but it is pen specific, yet has a lot of fields I like. My main information is in a spreadsheet at this time and I'm slowing putting info in this database to see if I like it for SAKs. So far I'm thinking of just staying with my spreadsheet, Microsoft Excel.
Info about the database here:
http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/29267-fountain-pen-database-available-for-download/
Screenshot of the data fields:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2447/32552518350_6c9798ff52_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RAyaAo)
Thank you all for your help.
This one is inbound as well. I guess from the same time period. I decided to buy it since that way I'll have an 84mm and then this one a 91mm.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3699/32562164840_0c99a7e047_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RBpBab)
Fairly sure that's an Inoxyd knife too. If so, then same time period, c. 1944-1946.Thank you.
I would really like a database that is similar to the pen one, but with fields that pertain to knives. That is why I am not being successful with the pen one, and have been mainly putting data into Excel. I really prefer a database though and especially one that allows photos to be added.l think you could do all this (including photos) with Google Sheets. That also provides hosting for the database if you want to make it publicly accessible.
I think you're on to something there with a topic starter! :tu:
Thank you all for your help.
This one is inbound as well. I guess from the same time period. I decided to buy it since that way I'll have an 84mm and then this one a 91mm.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3699/32562164840_0c99a7e047_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RBpBab)
Thank you, I will look into that program.I would really like a database that is similar to the pen one, but with fields that pertain to knives. That is why I am not being successful with the pen one, and have been mainly putting data into Excel. I really prefer a database though and especially one that allows photos to be added.l think you could do all this (including photos) with Google Sheets. That also provides hosting for the database if you want to make it publicly accessible.
I think you're on to something there with a topic starter! :tu:
You are building up a nice collection of vintage VICS! :like:Thank you, though nothing else is on my radar at this time. I wanted to find an old can opener style SAK, and I found it/them, so I doubt I'll be posting more in here anytime soon. Just don't quote me on that. :D
1) I saw a 134k on this thread that had the 1946 can opener and recently saw another on eBay. All the reference materials I have found show the modern can opener being introduced in 1951 and the Phillips in 1952. I understand transition times, but considering how few visible rivets knives I have seen with the Phillips yet I have seen at least 2 with the 1946 can opener, I am wondering if the 1946 can opener persisted for longer on the 84's.The Phillips back-spring tool definitely appears in the 84mm line first on models with the 1946 can opener. I've seen way too many knives with both to think that it's a factory goof, a one-off, or a later mod. So there are two conclusions: the official date is wrong and the Phillips was introduced earlier, or the 1946 can opener persisted longer for 84mm. I actually believe the answer is both. I think the official date is a little off and the Phillips was introduced c. 1950. BTW, this is actually somewhat common - many of the official dates from Victorinox don't match up with what you see with actual knives. I also believe that the 84mm line used older can openers/cap lifters a bit past 1952.
Note: the eBay knife was listed as 91 but it was clearly 84
2) in regards to the old numbering system, I understand the 3 digit code. However I can't seem to find much information on the leading digit when a 4 digit code is given. It appears the 2xxx refers to the Alox knives. I have also seen 1xxx and 8xxx but do not understand the distinction between them. For example what is the model number in the below knife of mine? It is a Hoffritz Victoria stamped knife. Is it a 234U 8234U or 1234U?
3) what is the difference between a 205 and a 234?
:like: :like:
Pulled a few recent vintage ones out of the knife roll....I have others I just can't find them. :facepalm:
Shown are a Victoria Champion, two Fisherman, an Original Outdoorsman, a Climber and Armee Suisse 84mm Tourist and a Spartan/Standard in 91mm.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Vintage%20SAKs%202-18-17_zpsdyeho6xr.jpg)
Pulled a few recent vintage ones out of the knife roll....I have others I just can't find them. :facepalm:
Shown are a Victoria Champion, two Fisherman, an Original Outdoorsman, a Climber and Armee Suisse 84mm Tourist and a Spartan/Standard in 91mm.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Vintage%20SAKs%202-18-17_zpsdyeho6xr.jpg)
:drool: :drool: :drool:
Pulled a few recent vintage ones out of the knife roll....I have others I just can't find them. :facepalm:
Shown are a Victoria Champion, two Fisherman, an Original Outdoorsman, a Climber and Armee Suisse 84mm Tourist and a Spartan/Standard in 91mm.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Vintage%20SAKs%202-18-17_zpsdyeho6xr.jpg)
Pulled a few recent vintage ones out of the knife roll....I have others I just can't find them. :facepalm:
Shown are a Victoria Champion, two Fisherman, an Original Outdoorsman, a Climber and Armee Suisse 84mm Tourist and a Spartan/Standard in 91mm.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Vintage%20SAKs%202-18-17_zpsdyeho6xr.jpg)
:like: :drool: :like:
Pulled a few recent vintage ones out of the knife roll....I have others I just can't find them. :facepalm:
Shown are a Victoria Champion, two Fisherman, an Original Outdoorsman, a Climber and Armee Suisse 84mm Tourist and a Spartan/Standard in 91mm.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Vintage%20SAKs%202-18-17_zpsdyeho6xr.jpg)
:drool: :drool: :drool: :like: :like: :like:Pulled a few recent vintage ones out of the knife roll....I have others I just can't find them. :facepalm:
Shown are a Victoria Champion, two Fisherman, an Original Outdoorsman, a Climber and Armee Suisse 84mm Tourist and a Spartan/Standard in 91mm.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Vintage%20SAKs%202-18-17_zpsdyeho6xr.jpg)
Thx guys!!!!Great old knives! Especially 60 Wenger!
Found another one....
Fisherman Deluxe.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Fisherman%20Deluxe%202-18-17_zpsgifki7mt.jpg)
And you guys already saw this one.
Wenger '60 Soldat
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Wenger%201960%20%201-26-17_zpsurdwrljx.jpg)
Thx guys!!!!Great old knives! Especially 60 Wenger!
Found another one....
Fisherman Deluxe.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Fisherman%20Deluxe%202-18-17_zpsgifki7mt.jpg)
And you guys already saw this one.
Wenger '60 Soldat
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Wenger%201960%20%201-26-17_zpsurdwrljx.jpg)
Shown are a Victoria Champion, two Fisherman, an Original Outdoorsman, a Climber and Armee Suisse 84mm Tourist and a Spartan/Standard in 91mm.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Vintage%20SAKs%202-18-17_zpsdyeho6xr.jpg)
Shown are a Victoria Champion, two Fisherman, an Original Outdoorsman, a Climber and Armee Suisse 84mm Tourist and a Spartan/Standard in 91mm.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Vintage%20SAKs%202-18-17_zpsdyeho6xr.jpg)
This pic... :drool:
:drool: :drool: :drool: :like: :like: :like:Pulled a few recent vintage ones out of the knife roll....I have others I just can't find them. :facepalm:
Shown are a Victoria Champion, two Fisherman, an Original Outdoorsman, a Climber and Armee Suisse 84mm Tourist and a Spartan/Standard in 91mm.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Vintage%20SAKs%202-18-17_zpsdyeho6xr.jpg)
Thx Barry!!!!
Found one more.
Victoria Standard/Spartan.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Vicoria%20Standard%202-18-17_zpsmbzgguup.jpg)
:like: :like: That's the vintage SAK of my dreams Robert!! What a beautiful knife!:drool: :drool: :drool: :like: :like: :like:Pulled a few recent vintage ones out of the knife roll....I have others I just can't find them. :facepalm:
Shown are a Victoria Champion, two Fisherman, an Original Outdoorsman, a Climber and Armee Suisse 84mm Tourist and a Spartan/Standard in 91mm.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Vintage%20SAKs%202-18-17_zpsdyeho6xr.jpg)
Thx Barry!!!!
Found one more.
Victoria Standard/Spartan.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Vicoria%20Standard%202-18-17_zpsmbzgguup.jpg)
Thx Barry!!! It's one of my favorites because I can carry and use it without worrying about scratching/dinging the scale or something. :DSG, I know that feeling....I bought this total fixer upper on eBay for $10 and after some spa treatment it is not only nice to look at, I carry it too.
Thx Barry!!! It's one of my favorites because I can carry and use it without worrying about scratching/dinging the scale or something. :DSG, I know that feeling....I bought this total fixer upper on eBay for $10 and after some spa treatment it is not only nice to look at, I carry it too.
Before:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/693/32383799760_a3f9dc9093_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RkDrrb)
After:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/716/32640307111_f792e8ed03_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RJj78H)
I have to give GigaHz the credit for the spa treatment, he did an amazing job!Thx Barry!!! It's one of my favorites because I can carry and use it without worrying about scratching/dinging the scale or something. :DSG, I know that feeling....I bought this total fixer upper on eBay for $10 and after some spa treatment it is not only nice to look at, I carry it too.
Before:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/693/32383799760_a3f9dc9093_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RkDrrb)
That's a really really nice job FB!!! :cheers: :cheers: :drool: :drool:
I also have a bail that I need to tap back on. :facepalm:
Thx Barry!!! It's one of my favorites because I can carry and use it without worrying about scratching/dinging the scale or something. :DSG, I know that feeling....I bought this total fixer upper on eBay for $10 and after some spa treatment it is not only nice to look at, I carry it too.
Before:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/693/32383799760_a3f9dc9093_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RkDrrb)
After:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/716/32640307111_f792e8ed03_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RJj78H)
I have to give GigaHz the credit for the spa treatment, he did an amazing job!Thx Barry!!! It's one of my favorites because I can carry and use it without worrying about scratching/dinging the scale or something. :DSG, I know that feeling....I bought this total fixer upper on eBay for $10 and after some spa treatment it is not only nice to look at, I carry it too.
Before:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/693/32383799760_a3f9dc9093_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RkDrrb)
That's a really really nice job FB!!! :cheers: :cheers: :drool: :drool:
I also have a bail that I need to tap back on. :facepalm:
If you look at the middle of the knife, a little bit of a blade is popping up, that is the broken small blade, it had to be replaced.
Then I had a saw added, because I love wood saws, ever since my first SAK, the Camper.
Another inbound...unsure of model. Ad states 0236MAU, he possibly got that info. from the box, if it is that it should have a wood saw as well?
More info. here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/222415354018?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2182/32633167740_357ae107f1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RHFvR7)
Another inbound...unsure of model. Ad states 0236MAU, he possibly got that info. from the box, if it is that it should have a wood saw as well?
Another great find FB - and a very good price too - amazing! :tu:Another inbound...unsure of model. Ad states 0236MAU, he possibly got that info. from the box, if it is that it should have a wood saw as well?The toolset mostly aligns with the Mountaineer except for the absence of the multi-purpose hook.
More info. here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/222415354018?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Another great find FB - and a very good price too - amazing! :tu:Another inbound...unsure of model. Ad states 0236MAU, he possibly got that info. from the box, if it is that it should have a wood saw as well?The toolset mostly aligns with the Mountaineer except for the absence of the multi-purpose hook.
More info. here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/222415354018?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
You sometimes find that ebay sellers do not display the saw - I guess they think it is a liner!
So this could be a full 0236mau - a predecessor to the Ranger
You'll know soon let us know.
@ Norcaljim - The Mountaineer would not have had a hook pre 1991!! Assuming it was around then - Or maybe just the Grand Prix was around in those days!
Edit - Just seen JB's equivalent comment - Apologies - It took me a long time to post this as someone came to the door and I was on the phone!! :o Multitasking :)
I neglected to mention that the awl didn't resemble the one for the Mountaineer. I was pleased to see the input that this was a Ranger and that the seller may not have realized that there was a wood saw. I have two Grand Prix models and they have a philips. BTW, thanks for your reply. I didn't know when the hook appeared but knew that it was missing on some of my older SAKs.
I neglected to mention that the awl didn't resemble the one for the Mountaineer. I was pleased to see the input that this was a Ranger and that the seller may not have realized that there was a wood saw. I have two Grand Prix models and they have a philips. BTW, thanks for your reply. I didn't know when the hook appeared but knew that it was missing on some of my older SAKs.
Hi NCJ - You might find the table in this thread (http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51872.msg1214377.html#msg1214377) useful with tool availability and dating
It gives approximate dates when tools came out or tool versions changed.
I am about to post a slightly updated version
SAK dating seems to be as much an art as a science and nothing matches JBs encyclopaedic knowledge (- In fact some of the info in here came from him - Thanks JB!) - However this gives a pretty good idea
Just now got this 84mm 244 k. Looks like ~ 1952-1957 with early 50s blade stamps, LNF nail notch and nickel silver tweezers head. How rare is it?[
Found 2 more...
An old Wengerinox (Huntsman style pattern) and another Champion with a Phillips.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Wengernox%20amp%20Champion%202-23-17_zps5vltnida.jpg)
Found 2 more...
An old Wengerinox (Huntsman style pattern) and another Champion with a Phillips.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Wengernox%20amp%20Champion%202-23-17_zps5vltnida.jpg)
Nice ones SG!!!! :cheers:
Found 2 more...:like: That Champ with philips is :drool:
An old Wengerinox (Huntsman style pattern) and another Champion with a Phillips.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Wengernox%20amp%20Champion%202-23-17_zps5vltnida.jpg)
Found 2 more...:like: That Champ with philips is :drool:
An old Wengerinox (Huntsman style pattern) and another Champion with a Phillips.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Wengernox%20amp%20Champion%202-23-17_zps5vltnida.jpg)
Seriously?!!! I didn't know that. Guess I have some reading to do.Found 2 more...:like: That Champ with philips is :drool:
An old Wengerinox (Huntsman style pattern) and another Champion with a Phillips.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Wengernox%20amp%20Champion%202-23-17_zps5vltnida.jpg)
Thx Rocky!!!! Cool thing about these old Phillips Champs is that they have 3 files on them....and I love files! :D
Seriously?!!! I didn't know that. Guess I have some reading to do.Found 2 more...:like: That Champ with philips is :drool:
An old Wengerinox (Huntsman style pattern) and another Champion with a Phillips.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Wengernox%20amp%20Champion%202-23-17_zps5vltnida.jpg)
Thx Rocky!!!! Cool thing about these old Phillips Champs is that they have 3 files on them....and I love files! :D
Found 2 more...
An old Wengerinox (Huntsman style pattern) and another Champion with a Phillips.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Wengernox%20amp%20Champion%202-23-17_zps5vltnida.jpg)
Found 2 more...
An old Wengerinox (Huntsman style pattern) and another Champion with a Phillips.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Wengernox%20amp%20Champion%202-23-17_zps5vltnida.jpg)
Some more nice goodies! :cheers:
Posted this one earlier in the thread (I think) but I'm pretty proud of it so I'll throw it back up.Didn't even know this existed! :like:
Hoffritz 84mm, Model 136kmaU (Journeyman) from '69/'70 acc. to JazzBass. :salute: Basically an 84mm Master Craftsman.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Reposts/Hoffritz%2084mm%20Craftsman2_zpsfbjbnr9x.jpg)
Posted this one earlier in the thread (I think) but I'm pretty proud of it so I'll throw it back up.Didn't even know this existed! :like:
Hoffritz 84mm, Model 136kmaU (Journeyman) from '69/'70 acc. to JazzBass. :salute: Basically an 84mm Master Craftsman.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Reposts/Hoffritz%2084mm%20Craftsman2_zpsfbjbnr9x.jpg)
You just keep adding to my homework. :drool:
Mmm..84mm
That looks great in size 84mm...I have a 91mm version inbound, but I really like that one you have!
That looks great in size 84mm...I have a 91mm version inbound, but I really like that one you have!
:cheers: Thx and congrats!!!! Love the Master Craftsman pattern!!
That looks great in size 84mm...I have a 91mm version inbound, but I really like that one you have!
:cheers: Thx and congrats!!!! Love the Master Craftsman pattern!!
Interestingly enough, I mostly bought it because I didn't have a Hoffritz SAK, glad I did (well, I'll find out if I'm glad tomorrow or the next day), unfortunately, it isn't new old stock, no box.
Will do! :cheers:That looks great in size 84mm...I have a 91mm version inbound, but I really like that one you have!
:cheers: Thx and congrats!!!! Love the Master Craftsman pattern!!
Interestingly enough, I mostly bought it because I didn't have a Hoffritz SAK, glad I did (well, I'll find out if I'm glad tomorrow or the next day), unfortunately, it isn't new old stock, no box.
:salute: If you're unhappy and want to move it, give me a holler. :tu:
Posted this one earlier in the thread (I think) but I'm pretty proud of it so I'll throw it back up.
Hoffritz 84mm, Model 136kmaU (Journeyman) from '69/'70 acc. to JazzBass. :salute: Basically an 84mm Master Craftsman.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Reposts/Hoffritz%2084mm%20Craftsman2_zpsfbjbnr9x.jpg)
Yep - That Journeyman/Baby Master Craftsman is a real beaut
It must be pretty rare/or at least uncommom
As Vicman says - It would be a great carry
I much prefer the 84mm - or Wenger, size
If I were Vic I would switch all my 91mm range to 84mm - It makes a surprisingly big differnce to size and weight in the pocket
And if you want a bigger tool - Get a 111/130 or pliers based!!
It arrived today and although not as compact as an 84mm, it will be a keeper at this time.That looks great in size 84mm...I have a 91mm version inbound, but I really like that one you have!
:cheers: Thx and congrats!!!! Love the Master Craftsman pattern!!
Interestingly enough, I mostly bought it because I didn't have a Hoffritz SAK, glad I did (well, I'll find out if I'm glad tomorrow or the next day), unfortunately, it isn't new old stock, no box.
:salute: If you're unhappy and want to move it, give me a holler. :tu:
It arrived today and although not as compact as an 84mm, it will be a keeper at this time.That looks great in size 84mm...I have a 91mm version inbound, but I really like that one you have!
:cheers: Thx and congrats!!!! Love the Master Craftsman pattern!!
Interestingly enough, I mostly bought it because I didn't have a Hoffritz SAK, glad I did (well, I'll find out if I'm glad tomorrow or the next day), unfortunately, it isn't new old stock, no box.
:salute: If you're unhappy and want to move it, give me a holler. :tu:
Spacing out!
Apollo Moon Landing Craftsman and Space Shuttle Master Craftsman.
One of these has been posted before but I wanted a decent pic of these two together. Created for the outdoors and related by serrated mains and pruner secondaries.
The Victorinox Elinox Campingmesser and the Victoria Original Outdoorsman (Hoffritz).
One of these has been posted before but I wanted a decent pic of these two together. Created for the outdoors and related by serrated mains and pruner secondaries.
The Victorinox Elinox Campingmesser and the Victoria Original Outdoorsman (Hoffritz).
Cool picture having them both together! :like: and :like:
I absolutely LUST over them Folder!!! :drool: :drool: :drool:Thank you Barry! :cheers:
Just posting an update to share my exposed rivet group. Hope you like them.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/709/32306152994_df5d45b0d1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RdMtKQ)
Just posting an update to share my exposed rivet group. Hope you like them.Lush! Lovely collection FoBo :cheers: :like:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/709/32306152994_df5d45b0d1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RdMtKQ)
Just posting an update to share my exposed rivet group. Hope you like them.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/709/32306152994_df5d45b0d1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RdMtKQ)
Just posting an update to share my exposed rivet group. Hope you like them.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/709/32306152994_df5d45b0d1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RdMtKQ)
:like: :like: :like: :like:
I would be very much surprised if I ever acquired an exposed rivet SAK but I sure do admire your collection! Thanks for sharing!
:salute: :salute: :salute:
Outstanding! :cheers:Thank you CS. :cheers:
Very impressive collection FB! :drool: :like:It's not a lot, but I like them very much. Thank you for checking them out. :cheers:
Just posting an update to share my exposed rivet group. Hope you like them.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/709/32306152994_df5d45b0d1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RdMtKQ)
Thank you magsie! :cheers:
Lush! Lovely collection FoBo :cheers: :like:
Awesome FB!!! :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:Thank you SG, it took me two months to find these, wasn't easy. :cheers:
Just posting an update to share my exposed rivet group. Hope you like them.Very nice! :like:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/709/32306152994_df5d45b0d1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RdMtKQ)
:like: :like: !!!
Just posting an update to share my exposed rivet group. Hope you like them.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/709/32306152994_df5d45b0d1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RdMtKQ)
LNF Climber (or Traveller...IDK) :facepalm:
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/LNF%20Climber%202-28-17_zps4ssupezb.jpg)
Thank you! The Soldier is 1954. 54 stamped on the tang.Just posting an update to share my exposed rivet group. Hope you like them.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/709/32306152994_df5d45b0d1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RdMtKQ)
Very cool! :drool:
Especially that Soldier! Which year is it from?
LNF Climber (or Traveller...IDK) :facepalm:
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/LNF%20Climber%202-28-17_zps4ssupezb.jpg)
Nice picture! :cheers:
Sorry for the avi pic, any ideas?
Like a Spartan?
Was old when I was a kid, now 60...
Better photo someday
thanks guys
Got this Wenger in today....SG, the blades on the Wenger sure look to be in good shape. You're right it looks like a match to your Victorinox. :tu:
Got this Wenger in today....SG, the blades on the Wenger sure look to be in good shape. You're right it looks like a match to your Victorinox. :tu:
Yes, I see what you mean about the carbon steel blade shown in the Old Timer photo. :tu:
Even though your photos take time, they are always worth viewing! :cheers:
Nice shots Robert and great explanation of your pic process :cheers:
Love that Wenger BTW ! :drool: :drool:
Got this Wenger in today....SG, the blades on the Wenger sure look to be in good shape. You're right it looks like a match to your Victorinox. :tu:
Thanks FB! The blades are nice for it's age having only normal use/surface scratches etc (not minty) The way I have to shoot SAKs inside, to balance the lighting/contrast ratios into acceptable ranges, requires letting the blade go a tiny bit "glary" which minimizes tiny surface imperfections. This is partly due to my 50 dollar cellphone and the simple (i.e. free) photo editing program not having a burn/dodge feature like my old (or current versions) of Adobe Photoshop. To depict the blades dead accurate (to show every tiny imperfection), I would have to boost the darker values (areas) to the point that the image becomes very artificial/manipulated looking. The particular technique I've worked out gives balanced levels without overly manipulating the image and lets me keep my sanity. :D We used to do all this with the Zone System back in the days of Black and White photography. It allowed you to expose/place scene values into ranges which could then (by prior testing and customizing film choices/processing technique) be accurately reproduced in the final print. Ansel Adams was the most famous photographer that used this technique.
Newer mirror polished SAKs are even more of a problem since a dead accurate depiction would show them as tiny mirrors reflecting my ceiling and whatever is in the room. So I have to manage the reflections as well by knife positioning and by obstructing (controlling) the reflected line of sight with (light or dark) neutral targets or, more commonly, a lighting panel (which again boosts the luminance value of the blade). All this is why some of my shots can take hours to get the final image. :ahhh It can be an ordeal sometimes since I have no lighting/studio setup...just a six dollar diffusion panel and a lamp on the table by my computer. :salute: I often mess it up but if it looks like I just set the knife down and shot it, I've been successful. :D
Older Carbon Steel blades (with patina) tend to render more accurately than SS SAK blades and are way easier to shoot. See below.
Gentlemen, have anyone of you ever seen anything like this?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/a01d3851f98efd4f9a218f8beb866565.jpg)
Should be 1944 Wenger.
Got this Wenger in today....SG, the blades on the Wenger sure look to be in good shape. You're right it looks like a match to your Victorinox. :tu:
Thanks FB! The blades are nice for it's age having only normal use/surface scratches etc (not minty) The way I have to shoot SAKs inside, to balance the lighting/contrast ratios into acceptable ranges, requires letting the blade go a tiny bit "glary" which minimizes tiny surface imperfections. This is partly due to my 50 dollar cellphone and the simple (i.e. free) photo editing program not having a burn/dodge feature like my old (or current versions) of Adobe Photoshop. To depict the blades dead accurate (to show every tiny imperfection), I would have to boost the darker values (areas) to the point that the image becomes very artificial/manipulated looking. The particular technique I've worked out gives balanced levels without overly manipulating the image and lets me keep my sanity. :D We used to do all this with the Zone System back in the days of Black and White photography. It allowed you to expose/place scene values into ranges which could then (by prior testing and customizing film choices/processing technique) be accurately reproduced in the final print. Ansel Adams was the most famous photographer that used this technique.
Newer mirror polished SAKs are even more of a problem since a dead accurate depiction would show them as tiny mirrors reflecting my ceiling and whatever is in the room. So I have to manage the reflections as well by knife positioning and by obstructing (controlling) the reflected line of sight with (light or dark) neutral targets or, more commonly, a lighting panel (which again boosts the luminance value of the blade). All this is why some of my shots can take hours to get the final image. :ahhh It can be an ordeal sometimes since I have no lighting/studio setup...just a six dollar diffusion panel and a lamp on the table by my computer. :salute: I often mess it up but if it looks like I just set the knife down and shot it, I've been successful. :D
Older Carbon Steel blades (with patina) tend to render more accurately than SS SAK blades and are way easier to shoot. See below.
:like: :like: :like: :like:
Thanks for the background! I have been very curious about your pro quality photography. These days I use my iPhone 7 Plus for quick snaps with zero post processing while my cameras sit in their bags slowly draining their batteries. I don't see that changing anytime soon but I sure appreciate your photos and thank you for your time investment (it does inspire me to want to put more effort into my photos).
:salute:
Gentlemen, have anyone of you ever seen anything like this?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/a01d3851f98efd4f9a218f8beb866565.jpg)
Should be 1944 Wenger.
I have not but it appears to be a nazi eagle over a swastika. I have some old Steyr ammo with that marking. Very cool for its history.
Want to sell it? :D
Nice shots Robert and great explanation of your pic process :cheers:
Love that Wenger BTW ! :drool: :drool:
Got this Wenger in today....SG, the blades on the Wenger sure look to be in good shape. You're right it looks like a match to your Victorinox. :tu:
Thanks FB! The blades are nice for it's age having only normal use/surface scratches etc (not minty) The way I have to shoot SAKs inside, to balance the lighting/contrast ratios into acceptable ranges, requires letting the blade go a tiny bit "glary" which minimizes tiny surface imperfections. This is partly due to my 50 dollar cellphone and the simple (i.e. free) photo editing program not having a burn/dodge feature like my old (or current versions) of Adobe Photoshop. To depict the blades dead accurate (to show every tiny imperfection), I would have to boost the darker values (areas) to the point that the image becomes very artificial/manipulated looking. The particular technique I've worked out gives balanced levels without overly manipulating the image and lets me keep my sanity. :D We used to do all this with the Zone System back in the days of Black and White photography. It allowed you to expose/place scene values into ranges which could then (by prior testing and customizing film choices/processing technique) be accurately reproduced in the final print. Ansel Adams was the most famous photographer that used this technique.
Newer mirror polished SAKs are even more of a problem since a dead accurate depiction would show them as tiny mirrors reflecting my ceiling and whatever is in the room. So I have to manage the reflections as well by knife positioning and by obstructing (controlling) the reflected line of sight with (light or dark) neutral targets or, more commonly, a lighting panel (which again boosts the luminance value of the blade). All this is why some of my shots can take hours to get the final image. :ahhh It can be an ordeal sometimes since I have no lighting/studio setup...just a six dollar diffusion panel and a lamp on the table by my computer. :salute: I often mess it up but if it looks like I just set the knife down and shot it, I've been successful. :D
Older Carbon Steel blades (with patina) tend to render more accurately than SS SAK blades and are way easier to shoot. See below.
:like: :like: :like: :like:
Thanks for the background! I have been very curious about your pro quality photography. These days I use my iPhone 7 Plus for quick snaps with zero post processing while my cameras sit in their bags slowly draining their batteries. I don't see that changing anytime soon but I sure appreciate your photos and thank you for your time investment (it does inspire me to want to put more effort into my photos).
:salute:
Thanks Jim!!!! :cheers: :cheers: The iPhone's capabilities are amazing from what I've seen/read. I enjoy doing these pics but my poor health gets in the way sometimes. Haven't used my Leicas or Nikons for years either.... :facepalm:
I agree with Steve...and i can always make room for that Wenger if you run out of room buddy!!Nice shots Robert and great explanation of your pic process :cheers:
Love that Wenger BTW ! :drool: :drool:
The date on the knife falls into WWII (1944) but I would like to know if anyone ever seen it on any SAK from that era?Gentlemen, have anyone of you ever seen anything like this?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/a01d3851f98efd4f9a218f8beb866565.jpg)
Should be 1944 Wenger.
I have not but it appears to be a nazi eagle over a swastika. I have some old Steyr ammo with that marking. Very cool for its history.
Want to sell it? :D
I have that same symbol on a Nazi era coin....
Would you be interested to buy it? The price would be USD 100 plus shipping. Selling at cost, just want to get it to anyone who would like it.Gentlemen, have anyone of you ever seen anything like this?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/a01d3851f98efd4f9a218f8beb866565.jpg)
Should be 1944 Wenger.
I have not but it appears to be a nazi eagle over a swastika. I have some old Steyr ammo with that marking. Very cool for its history.
Want to sell it? :D
This knife is in route to me, but at this moment the shipment is delayed due to poor weather back East.
I'm curious if you folks think this is a Champion. Not sure if the seller is showing all the tools or not. Is it possible all the tools are showing?
Yes that is the tool set, thanks JB!This knife is in route to me, but at this moment the shipment is delayed due to poor weather back East.
I'm curious if you folks think this is a Champion. Not sure if the seller is showing all the tools or not. Is it possible all the tools are showing?
Looks like 236faU from c. 1960.
(http://i.imgur.com/lHjZ1VH.jpg)
I will put it in the Wiki - Should it have its own page? Or should it be a variation of the Angler?
I am leaning towards variation ??? But if it was common/catalogue model I guess it should have its own page? Let me know folks
And can I steal your piccie please JB? - I know you have quite a few piccies in there already.
Thank you Huntsman and JB, the knife is here and it indeed only has those 5 layers as shown in the ad.
Here is the picture I just took of it, I have to work on not getting reflections on the blades. For instance, the wood saw is glossy chrome looking, but it is picking up ceiling reflections.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2936/32703350373_c95c82a0bc_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RPTdGv)
Thank you Vicman! :cheers:Thank you Huntsman and JB, the knife is here and it indeed only has those 5 layers as shown in the ad.
Here is the picture I just took of it, I have to work on not getting reflections on the blades. For instance, the wood saw is glossy chrome looking, but it is picking up ceiling reflections.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2936/32703350373_c95c82a0bc_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RPTdGv)
That is a good looking knife FB. You are really getting a nice collection of Vintage Vics :like: :cheers:
As much as I prefer original boxes, I will buy without, proof shown below: :ahhh
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2831/33537801005_f4aa2acc2a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/T6BZNn)
Thank you SG. :cheers:
I have no more deals in the works, so it's likely a good stopping point for the vintage ones.
I still have one more modern one I'd like to get (Picnicker)...then I may take a break.
I wonder which one of us will cave in first! :rofl: :pok:Thank you SG. :cheers:
I have no more deals in the works, so it's likely a good stopping point for the vintage ones.
I still have one more modern one I'd like to get (Picnicker)...then I may take a break.
I hear you!!! I have a few SAKs in transit then I'm gonna coast for a bit as well....got a bunch of stuff to to get serviced on the truck and out here at the farm!!!! :ahhh :ahhh
I wonder which one of us will cave in first! :rofl: :pok:Thank you SG. :cheers:
I have no more deals in the works, so it's likely a good stopping point for the vintage ones.
I still have one more modern one I'd like to get (Picnicker)...then I may take a break.
I hear you!!! I have a few SAKs in transit then I'm gonna coast for a bit as well....got a bunch of stuff to to get serviced on the truck and out here at the farm!!!! :ahhh :ahhh
Pining for pins.Nice!
Pining for pins.
Pining for pins.Nice!
3rd down on the left is intriguing. Do you have a close-up shot of it?
:like: That's the oldest SAK I've ever seen with advertising. Looks inlaid too. :tu:Pining for pins.Nice!
3rd down on the left is intriguing. Do you have a close-up shot of it?
Old Spartan for Danzas Transporte.
@ CS and FB .... and SG
Model names and numbers please for all group shot photos posted !!!
....It's a rule of this thread :o ..... Did you not read it in the first post ??? ;)
In old format (246mafu etc) and modern equivalent of course :pok:
Old Spartan for Danzas Transporte.
@ CS and FB .... and SGOkay, I will, but tomorrow, I put them all back and have to figure out the group shot again.
Model names and numbers please for all group shot photos posted !!!
:like: That's the oldest SAK I've ever seen with advertising. Looks inlaid too. :tu:Pining for pins.Nice!
3rd down on the left is intriguing. Do you have a close-up shot of it?
Old Spartan for Danzas Transporte.
Old Spartan for Danzas Transporte.
:ahhh
One of the few times I've been outright swindled on eBay for a knife was for one of these. Seller was in France, I wired the money, and he simply never sent the knife. No paypal so I was out the money. SOB sold the knife a year later on eBay again to a seller in France.
One of the few times I've been outright swindled on eBay for a knife was for one of these. Seller was in France, I wired the money, and he simply never sent the knife. No paypal so I was out the money. SOB sold the knife a year later on eBay again to a seller in France.But that really stinks JB - and clearly, brazen, outright fraud - As he 'sold it again later' (Thinks: ??? I knew JB kept good records - But that is impressive!!)
@ CS and FB .... and SG
Model names and numbers please for all group shot photos posted !!!
....It's a rule of this thread :o ..... Did you not read it in the first post ??? ;)
In old format (246mafu etc) and modern equivalent of course :pok:
Nice knife! Have the same one. It is interesting that this inlay is shown in 1942 Elsener catalog.Pining for pins.Nice!
3rd down on the left is intriguing. Do you have a close-up shot of it?
Old Spartan for Danzas Transporte.
As much as I prefer original boxes, I will buy without, proof shown below: :ahhh:like: :like: :like:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2831/33537801005_f4aa2acc2a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/T6BZNn)
Pining for pins.:like:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2831/33537801005_f4aa2acc2a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/T6BZNn)
Top - TeleChrome - 91mm 5 layer Angler Plus, 236fa
Left to Right
84mm No rivet 4 layer Artisan
84mm No rivet w/bail 3 layer opener tools/scissors/blade layer
91mm Exposed rivet, 2 layer, opener tools/blade layer
91mm 2-layer Spartan, exposed rivet, blade layer/opener layer
84mm 2-layer w/bail, exposed rivet, opener layer/blade layer - 205ku
91mm 3-layer, my first exposed rivet w/bail Camper
Bottom - 91mm $10 knife that has been modded to become a Fieldmaster and one of my EDCs
As much as I prefer original boxes, I will buy without, proof shown below: :ahhh
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2831/33537801005_f4aa2acc2a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/T6BZNn)
:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: cough, cough :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
Beautiful Danzas and Telechrome!!!Thanks for the link, I really like the looks of Neil's 84mm, wow! :like:
Another rare 84mm 5-layer Telechrome was shown by Neil years ago (in 2010 to be exact :ahhh time flies when you're having fun ;) )... http://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,21990.msg426783.html#msg426783
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2831/33537801005_f4aa2acc2a_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/T6BZNn)
Top - TeleChrome - 91mm 5 layer Angler Plus, 236fa
Left to Right
84mm No rivet 4 layer Artisan
84mm No rivet w/bail 3 layer opener tools/scissors/blade layer
91mm Exposed rivet, 2 layer, opener tools/blade layer
91mm 2-layer Spartan, exposed rivet, blade layer/opener layer
84mm 2-layer w/bail, exposed rivet, opener layer/blade layer - 205ku
91mm 3-layer, my first exposed rivet w/bail Camper
Bottom - 91mm $10 knife that has been modded to become a Fieldmaster and one of my EDCs
* Was the model number for the Tourist on its box FB - As I was not sure why this was not a 234 ku - as I think the 5 in xx5 indicates scissors and I was not sure what the 0 in x0x was
* Was the model number for the Tourist on its box FB - As I was not sure why this was not a 234 ku - as I think the 5 in xx5 indicates scissors and I was not sure what the 0 in x0x was
Thank you again JB.
So for my records, the 91mm Spartan on the left is 205, the 84mm Tourist on the right is 206.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3727/33413746852_1429901f70_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SUEbPE)
Correct - well, technically the Tourist is a 206U (U = bail), but yes.Noted, thank you. :hatsoff:
Well, we know the former owner had a big screwdriver and didn't drink wine....or those would have been screwed up too. :facepalm:
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Whats%20wrong%20with%20people....._zpsaxnohgcg.jpg)
Well, we know the former owner had a big screwdriver and didn't drink wine....or those would have been screwed up too. :facepalm:
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Whats%20wrong%20with%20people....._zpsaxnohgcg.jpg)
Your new EDC! :pok:
Well, we know the former owner had a big screwdriver and didn't drink wine....or those would have been screwed up too. :facepalm:I'm not understanding the woodsaw coming out the opposite end.
It's an Armee Suisse too.....
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Whats%20wrong%20with%20people....._zpsaxnohgcg.jpg)
Well, we know the former owner had a big screwdriver and didn't drink wine....or those would have been screwed up too. :facepalm:I'm not understanding the woodsaw coming out the opposite end.
It's an Armee Suisse too.....
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Whats%20wrong%20with%20people....._zpsaxnohgcg.jpg)
In one regard, the knife was used and I have to respect that part.
* Was the model number for the Tourist on its box FB - As I was not sure why this was not a 234 ku - as I think the 5 in xx5 indicates scissors and I was not sure what the 0 in x0x was
Hello Huntsman, thank you for your naming efforts. I don't recall why I named that what I did except I thought someone at some point told me it was that, unsure who/where, and even quite possibly me trying to name it.
The set you just named are my non-boxed set with large awls.
Here are my boxed ones, much easier to name. :D :pok: :cheers:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/613/32998089130_13e8df2854_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SgVQgd)
Top row:
246k a
no markings
134ku
0236maU
248kU
0.5700.61
1.4713. other side of box is136aU
1.57.13
Bottom row:
WOODSMAN
CHAMPION
CHAMPION
RANGER
* Was the model number for the Tourist on its box FB - As I was not sure why this was not a 234 ku - as I think the 5 in xx5 indicates scissors and I was not sure what the 0 in x0x was
Hello Huntsman, thank you for your naming efforts. I don't recall why I named that what I did except I thought someone at some point told me it was that, unsure who/where, and even quite possibly me trying to name it.
The set you just named are my non-boxed set with large awls.
Here are my boxed ones, much easier to name. :D :pok: :cheers:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/613/32998089130_13e8df2854_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SgVQgd)
Top row:
246k a
no markings
134ku
0236maU
248kU
0.5700.61
1.4713. other side of box is136aU
1.57.13
Bottom row:
WOODSMAN
CHAMPION
CHAMPION
RANGER
Did I post this Fisherman pic here?OMG i have that "album" covered songs from them in the biz, YEARS ago
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Reposts/Vintage%20things%20-%20Vic%20Fisherman%20-%20pre%2070_zpsd5zvanct.jpg)
Did I post this Fisherman pic here?OMG i have that "album" covered songs from them in the biz, YEARS ago
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Reposts/Vintage%20things%20-%20Vic%20Fisherman%20-%20pre%2070_zpsd5zvanct.jpg)
Its getting to the point where Im old......
One of my nicer vintage Craftsman (square Phillips, fishscaler)...looks unused. Probably '80-'85 due to the tool types. It's VSSR stamped with a blank reverse tang.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Early%2080s%20Craftsman%203-23-17_zpsezigdspp.jpg)
+1One of my nicer vintage Craftsman (square Phillips, fishscaler)...looks unused. Probably '80-'85 due to the tool types. It's VSSR stamped with a blank reverse tang.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Early%2080s%20Craftsman%203-23-17_zpsezigdspp.jpg)
:like:
Well, we know the former owner had a big screwdriver and didn't drink wine....or those would have been screwed up too. :facepalm:I'm not understanding the woodsaw coming out the opposite end.
It's an Armee Suisse too.....
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Whats%20wrong%20with%20people....._zpsaxnohgcg.jpg)
In one regard, the knife was used and I have to respect that part.
Broken and lost backspring....nothing there to stop it.. I've used knives for 50+ years, pretty hard at times, and none of them looked even close to this so I'm less understanding.
+1One of my nicer vintage Craftsman (square Phillips, fishscaler)...looks unused. Probably '80-'85 due to the tool types. It's VSSR stamped with a blank reverse tang.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Early%2080s%20Craftsman%203-23-17_zpsezigdspp.jpg)
:like:
Same here Robert, and I think you'd have to really put effort into destroying knives like some people do!Well, we know the former owner had a big screwdriver and didn't drink wine....or those would have been screwed up too. :facepalm:I'm not understanding the woodsaw coming out the opposite end.
It's an Armee Suisse too.....
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Whats%20wrong%20with%20people....._zpsaxnohgcg.jpg)
In one regard, the knife was used and I have to respect that part.
Broken and lost backspring....nothing there to stop it.. I've used knives for 50+ years, pretty hard at times, and none of them looked even close to this so I'm less understanding.
Although this isn't necessarily considered a vintage knife, I know you all in here know your tangs. :tu:I can't help myself wondering where you keep sourcing all those beauties...
Is this common?
The tang, blank on the other side. :think:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2894/33764505461_c9ae0d2f87_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TrDV8T)
The knife, it's a Picnicker:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2807/33737530392_cb70630786_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TpgEou)
I can't help myself wondering where you keep sourcing all those beauties...I find most of them on the auction site, and some are offered to me privately. I do spend a LOT (too much) time looking for them.
But I enjoy the hobby, I just wish some of them didn't cost as much as they do.
Although this isn't necessarily considered a vintage knife, I know you all in here know your tangs. :tu:
Is this common? I see on this tang thread it is 1957-1970, but shouldn't it have Victorinox or Elinox on the opposite side?
Thank you JB! :tu:Although this isn't necessarily considered a vintage knife, I know you all in here know your tangs. :tu:
Is this common? I see on this tang thread it is 1957-1970, but shouldn't it have Victorinox or Elinox on the opposite side?
That stamp is a somewhat unusual one from c. 1974. It was used on both Picnickers and Outdoorsmans (I have an Outdoorsman with this same stamp). Around 1974 Victorinox start transitioning from old (Victoria/Elinox) stamps to newer stamps (Officer Suisse/Economy). This is part of this transition. You see Picnickers with Elinox, Victoria, this one, and Officer Suise stamps.
Although this isn't necessarily considered a vintage knife, I know you all in here know your tangs. :tu:
Is this common? I see on this tang thread it is 1957-1970, but shouldn't it have Victorinox or Elinox on the opposite side?
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50014.30.html#_
The tang is blank on the other side. :think:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2894/33764505461_c9ae0d2f87_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TrDV8T)
The knife, it's a Picnicker:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2807/33737530392_cb70630786_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TpgEou)
Great find FB! I knew you would find another Picnicker with the box,
:tu: :tu: :mail: :cheers:
I love this knife and I'm just looking for some clarification on the opener layer as I like to document little variations in my notes about my knives. As I'm examining my used, but new-to-me Picnicker, I notice the opener layer has two different versions of the tools. :think:
On the left, the bottle opener doesn't have machine marks (usually diagonal lines). On the right, the can opener with +Pat has the machine marks.
I am sorry the photos didn't pick it up, but the left tool, polished, right tool machine marks.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3945/33525917080_f65bae69de_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/T5z687)
The knife:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2925/33517006330_93d3201233_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/T4Mqgu)
NOS No 236:tu: :like: :drool:
NOS No 236Nice knife! Congratulations! :tu:
NOS No 236
NOS No 236
I love this knife and I'm just looking for some clarification on the opener layer as I like to document little variations in my notes about my knives. As I'm examining my used, but new-to-me Picnicker, I notice the opener layer has two different versions of the tools.
On the left, the bottle opener doesn't have machine marks (usually diagonal lines). On the right, the can opener with +Pat has the machine marks.
I am sorry the photos didn't pick it up, but the left tool, polished, right tool machine marks.
NOS No 236Nice knife! Congratulations! :tu:
NOS No 236
Wow!! That is really nice. Is that 84 or 91mm? I have need of a 91mm like that if you find yourself completely out of storage space. 😝 :cheers:
NOS No 236
Nice find! :like: :like:
In case you were wondering, 60's Super Tinkers weigh around 89.4g.
I'm putting lots of SAKs on the scale here: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,71599.0.html
:salute:
Thank you Huntsman for your thoughts. I apologize I didn't see your post earlier, I usually get an email notification. :think:I love this knife and I'm just looking for some clarification on the opener layer as I like to document little variations in my notes about my knives. As I'm examining my used, but new-to-me Picnicker, I notice the opener layer has two different versions of the tools.
On the left, the bottle opener doesn't have machine marks (usually diagonal lines). On the right, the can opener with +Pat has the machine marks.
I am sorry the photos didn't pick it up, but the left tool, polished, right tool machine marks.
Hi FB,
I don't really know the answer to your question - So this is just speculation - Others may chip in....
I think there are two things that affect whether a tool is polished or not.
1. Time
If you take the Soldier line for instance - The early knives always have the machine marks.
Over time Vic moved onto installing the highly polished tools in all the Soldiers
.. Or at a specific point in time - Late 70s/80s?
SA Knights or the Wiki may have clues as to exactly when
2. Economy/Elinox lines
Never fully understood this - However...
These tools were produced by Vic some time ago and were duplicates of the regular models, but always had a rougher finish (less/no polishing) than the regular lines. So were cheaper to produce and therefore also cheaper to buy.
There is a nice article in MTo somewhere about the Economy/Regular versions of the St.Chistopher Automobile which you might want to dig out.
Your knife is an Elinox and has a 'economy' and 'regular' opener.
So this knife demonstrates another feature of Vic SAK manufacturing which we have all seen (....quite a bit!!)
3. Parts installed on a knife that do not seem to match the rest of the knife
So this is where, for whatever reason, an older, or in this case different/wrong (ie polished), part is installed in the knife being made.
So either it was made in a transition period and/or the 'wrong' part was installed
As I say just my guess ???
PS. I never really understood the Economy/Elinox lines.
I do understand that they cost less to build and don't have such a nice finish ...
But was it really worth it? As the price difference at the time was only a dollar/franc or two?
And to have completely different productions runs/catalogues/orders/distribution channels etc
- Seems like a lot of effort for little gain!!
I guess 20/30 years ago maybe a dollar or two was worth saving?
And of course now the ridiculous prices we pay for these old guys completely eclipses any price differences.
NOS No 236
I think it spells the name of Schärer.
It is not rare knife just early 1960s Angler 235 faU, but it looks like in 1960s this one is not so common as Fisherman with Phillips instead of corckscrew. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170529/74408695f10e40c9ad0b1bdd27ab1c12.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
It is not rare knife just early 1960s Angler 235 faU, but it looks like in 1960s this one is not so common as Fisherman with Phillips instead of corckscrew. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170529/74408695f10e40c9ad0b1bdd27ab1c12.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
:like: :like: :like: :like:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4220/34120915304_a06e619923_c.jpg)
:cheers:
:like: :like: :like: :like:I take it your a classic DE safety user?
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4220/34120915304_a06e619923_c.jpg)
:cheers:
:like: :like: :like: :like:I take it your a classic DE safety user?
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4220/34120915304_a06e619923_c.jpg)
:cheers:
JR
Ditto when, mine is a Merkur,:like: :like: :like: :like:I take it your a classic DE safety user?
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4220/34120915304_a06e619923_c.jpg)
:cheers:
JR
When I bother shaving these days..... yes. My preference is the old Gillette razors, favorite being the fatboy.
:cheers:
Finally finished my collection of 84mm metal file SAKs with the addition of a small Mountaineer (top right). Has issues with over-sharpening of the blades but as my dear old mom used to say, "beggars can't be choosers". It will be a good place holder until (or is that "if") a better example comes along. It is from the 70's.Really nice collection! Congrats!
The others are the small Grand Prix (top left), also from the 70's, small Master Craftsman (bottom left) from the 70's and small Master Craftsman (bottom right) from the 60's. :cheers:
Finally finished my collection of 84mm metal file SAKs with the addition of a small Mountaineer (top right). Has issues with over-sharpening of the blades but as my dear old mom used to say, "beggars can't be choosers". It will be a good place holder until (or is that "if") a better example comes along. It is from the 70's.Really nice collection! Congrats!
The others are the small Grand Prix (top left), also from the 70's, small Master Craftsman (bottom left) from the 70's and small Master Craftsman (bottom right) from the 60's. :cheers:
Now you need 1950s Master Craftsman small and 1980s Grand Prix small :cheers:
Very nice. Afraid to touch my "Spartan " it's at least 70 yoa.....and I used it as a beater as a kid. OMG (she is safe now)Finally finished my collection of 84mm metal file SAKs with the addition of a small Mountaineer (top right). Has issues with over-sharpening of the blades but as my dear old mom used to say, "beggars can't be choosers". It will be a good place holder until (or is that "if") a better example comes along. It is from the 70's.Really nice collection! Congrats!
The others are the small Grand Prix (top left), also from the 70's, small Master Craftsman (bottom left) from the 70's and small Master Craftsman (bottom right) from the 60's. :cheers:
Now you need 1950s Master Craftsman small and 1980s Grand Prix small :cheers:
Hi F2
I made a bail for an old British/Indian Army Knife last weekend
I am hoping to post a mod guide on this sometime - I took the photos etc etc
Briefly - The bail pin/rivet diameter for my BAK is the same size as a SAK - 2.5mm
And the bail itself is going to be about 2.5mm - So as you say .....
Challenge: How do I get the pin through the brass of the same thickness ???
My solution: …. was to get some 3.2mm brass rod - Then thin the middle section to 2.5, then flatten the ends so that they are wide enough to have a 2.5mm hole drilled through them, then bend to make the bail!!
Simples !! .......... Not :pok:
8) Great minds think alike :cheers:
Yep I made a 'lathe' too - 'cept I don't have a press - So had to clamp the hand drill then use that
I am pretty sure it was 3.2mm. The thinning took for ever >:(
I was also worried it would be too thin for the attachment point - but it worked fine
One important tip:
Heat the brass before you flatten it. My first attempt failed, as the brass split on the flattening after several hits - When heated it was fine.
EDIT: Here is how it turned out - I was pretty happy
More to be revealed later !!
8) Great minds think alike :cheers:
Yep I made a 'lathe' too - 'cept I don't have a press - So had to clamp the hand drill then use that
I am pretty sure it was 3.2mm. The thinning took for ever >:(
I was also worried it would be too thin for the attachment point - but it worked fine
One important tip:
Heat the brass before you flatten it. My first attempt failed, as the brass split on the flattening after several hits - When heated it was fine.
EDIT: Here is how it turned out - I was pretty happy
More to be revealed later !!
Hmm, then it seems like our approaches were less similar than I thought, here's how I've been working. I have the second "head" left but I'm getting there. My approach will require another step where I plan on flattening the bulbs against a sander before drilling.
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0ByrViABqmcpCREM3Wi1JSnMzd2s)
8) Great minds think alike :cheers:
Yep I made a 'lathe' too - 'cept I don't have a press - So had to clamp the hand drill then use that
I am pretty sure it was 3.2mm. The thinning took for ever >:(
I was also worried it would be too thin for the attachment point - but it worked fine
One important tip:
Heat the brass before you flatten it. My first attempt failed, as the brass split on the flattening after several hits - When heated it was fine.
EDIT: Here is how it turned out - I was pretty happy
More to be revealed later !!
Hmm, then it seems like our approaches were less similar than I thought, here's how I've been working. I have the second "head" left but I'm getting there. My approach will require another step where I plan on flattening the bulbs against a sander before drilling.
(https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0ByrViABqmcpCREM3Wi1JSnMzd2s)
Wouldn't it be easier to just cut a piece of brass rod, bend it in half and then bend the two extremities and insert them in the knife?...
:think: :think:
Hi F2
I made a bail for an old British/Indian Army Knife last weekend
I am hoping to post a mod guide on this sometime - I took the photos etc etc
Briefly - The bail pin/rivet diameter for my BAK is the same size as a SAK - 2.5mm
And the bail itself is going to be about 2.5mm - So as you say .....
Challenge: How do I get the pin through the brass of the same thickness ???
My solution: …. was to get some 3.2mm brass rod - Then thin the middle section to 2.5, then flatten the ends so that they are wide enough to have a 2.5mm hole drilled through them, then bend to make the bail!!
Simples !! .......... Not :pok:
Wouldn't it be easier to just cut a piece of brass rod, bend it in half and then bend the two extremities and insert them in the knife?...No not possible - As the pin that holds the bail on is the rivet on which the tools pivot, and holds the knife together :twak:
Hi guys, I neef a bale for a pocket knife, the U shape that "presses" in to eitjer side, no fancy work except the bending to shape. Any hints ? Thank youSome hints above in my and 42's posts ???
We now return to VSAKOC. already in progress...
Elinox 1137U and 1237U from 1960s-early 1970s. Not very common Phillips screwdriver without file. Who knows when they changed the ELINOX stamp from big to small size?
Nice! Do you have pictures?Elinox 1137U and 1237U from 1960s-early 1970s. Not very common Phillips screwdriver without file. Who knows when they changed the ELINOX stamp from big to small size?
Got 2 exactly like that but the Super Tinker is Hoffritz w/ regular cross.
Hi F2
I made a bail for an old British/Indian Army Knife last weekend
I am hoping to post a mod guide on this sometime - I took the photos etc etc
Briefly - The bail pin/rivet diameter for my BAK is the same size as a SAK - 2.5mm
And the bail itself is going to be about 2.5mm - So as you say .....
Challenge: How do I get the pin through the brass of the same thickness ???
My solution: …. was to get some 3.2mm brass rod - Then thin the middle section to 2.5, then flatten the ends so that they are wide enough to have a 2.5mm hole drilled through them, then bend to make the bail!!
Simples !! .......... Not :pok:
Hi guys, I neef a bale for a pocket knife, the U shape that "presses" in to eitjer side, no fancy work except the bending to shape. Any hints ? Thank you
We now return to VSAKOC. already in progress...
Nice! Do you have pictures?Elinox 1137U and 1237U from 1960s-early 1970s. Not very common Phillips screwdriver without file. Who knows when they changed the ELINOX stamp from big to small size?
Got 2 exactly like that but the Super Tinker is Hoffritz w/ regular cross.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Oh Man, I just notice the screwdriver doesn't have a file. Seems to be rare indeed. I had never seen a bail without the file. :o I think that must be one of the very last Bails before the transition in 68. Maybe a 69... But I guess they kept selling rach piece until they ran out, into the early 70s.
great information! but I thought the round can key phillips showed up closer to 80?? :cheers:
Great! Thank you JAZZBASS. Here is another file-less Phillips on Victoria Champion from early 1970s(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170809/bef567cf2fe7a24f12cf6efdf03cf507.jpg)Oh Man, I just notice the screwdriver doesn't have a file. Seems to be rare indeed. I had never seen a bail without the file. :o I think that must be one of the very last Bails before the transition in 68. Maybe a 69... But I guess they kept selling rach piece until they ran out, into the early 70s.
Phillips screwdrivers without files are the norm for Elinox line knives from their inception in 1957 until discontinuation in the mid 1970s. Early Elinox Phillips drivers up until c. 1970 were simply unfinished versions of the Victoria line tools where they skipped the file grinding and polishing step. Some Elinox models from the 1960s can be found with the Victoria Phillips (with file), but these tend to be the exception not the norm (probably < 10%). Around 1970 Victorinox drops the Phillips file from almost all models - both Victoria and Elinox - with the notable exception of the Fisherman. Champions, Craftsmans, Artisans, etc, all get a solid, square, fully polished, file-less Phillips from about 1970-1974, at which point the can-key slot is introduced into the square Phillips. This same time Elinox knives begin to get fully polished tools as well so they get the same Phillips as the Victoria knives. This stays the same until c. 1983 when the round, can-key slotted Phillips is introduced.
Great! Thank you JAZZBASS. Here is another file-less Phillips on Victoria Champion from early 1970s(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170809/bef567cf2fe7a24f12cf6efdf03cf507.jpg)Oh Man, I just notice the screwdriver doesn't have a file. Seems to be rare indeed. I had never seen a bail without the file. :o I think that must be one of the very last Bails before the transition in 68. Maybe a 69... But I guess they kept selling rach piece until they ran out, into the early 70s.
Phillips screwdrivers without files are the norm for Elinox line knives from their inception in 1957 until discontinuation in the mid 1970s. Early Elinox Phillips drivers up until c. 1970 were simply unfinished versions of the Victoria line tools where they skipped the file grinding and polishing step. Some Elinox models from the 1960s can be found with the Victoria Phillips (with file), but these tend to be the exception not the norm (probably < 10%). Around 1970 Victorinox drops the Phillips file from almost all models - both Victoria and Elinox - with the notable exception of the Fisherman. Champions, Craftsmans, Artisans, etc, all get a solid, square, fully polished, file-less Phillips from about 1970-1974, at which point the can-key slot is introduced into the square Phillips. This same time Elinox knives begin to get fully polished tools as well so they get the same Phillips as the Victoria knives. This stays the same until c. 1983 when the round, can-key slotted Phillips is introduced.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Thank you El Corkscrew! This one is c.1972-1973 Champion, very close to 1970s Craftsman but with long nail file.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170809/7dd34058bc122c677938c1c37a5efcce.png)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Thanks, sorry bout the phone typos -Wouldn't it be easier to just cut a piece of brass rod, bend it in half and then bend the two extremities and insert them in the knife?...No not possible - As the pin that holds the bail on is the rivet on which the tools pivot, and holds the knife together :twak:
..... Unless you have a hollow rivet - a la Wenger Soldier - as 42 mentions !!
And for these old SAKs - that is not authentic :oHi guys, I neef a bale for a pocket knife, the U shape that "presses" in to eitjer side, no fancy work except the bending to shape. Any hints ? Thank youSome hints above in my and 42's posts ???
We now return to VSAKOC. already in progress...
I hope to make a full step by step guide on how I did it - But it may take some time
Ah so! I've got a couple champion C's, one NIB. I really want to find a pre 61 climber and 60's standard with bail and scale tools (does it exist?)I have no 60s Standard with scale tools but here are some old "Climbers". Mod.235, 235aU, 235kaU and 245kaU :salute:
Ah so! I've got a couple champion C's, one NIB. I really want to find a pre 61 climber and 60's standard with bail and scale tools (does it exist?)I have no 60s Standard with scale tools but here are some old "Climbers". Mod.235, 235aU, 235kaU and 245kaU :salute:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170810/9dbc925279c9643db14d448e91fbbdb6.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Just beautiful :like:Ah so! I've got a couple champion C's, one NIB. I really want to find a pre 61 climber and 60's standard with bail and scale tools (does it exist?)I have no 60s Standard with scale tools but here are some old "Climbers". Mod.235, 235aU, 235kaU and 245kaU :salute:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170810/9dbc925279c9643db14d448e91fbbdb6.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
:cheers: :salute:
Just beautiful :like:
:cheers: :salute:
:like: :tu: :tu:
El Hoffritz "Super Tinker" & "Climber"
My latest... Model 136aU...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171005/a3fb008dbabc9d0049ecd38c3fea40a1.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Thanks M0rkoni :cheers:My latest... Model 136aU...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171005/a3fb008dbabc9d0049ecd38c3fea40a1.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
:like:
My latest... Model 136aU...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171005/a3fb008dbabc9d0049ecd38c3fea40a1.jpg):like: :tu: :like:
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Thanks FB... :cheers:My latest... Model 136aU...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171005/a3fb008dbabc9d0049ecd38c3fea40a1.jpg):like: :tu: :like:
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
My latest... Model 136aU...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171005/a3fb008dbabc9d0049ecd38c3fea40a1.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
My latest... Model 136aU...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171005/a3fb008dbabc9d0049ecd38c3fea40a1.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
My latest... Model 136aU...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171005/a3fb008dbabc9d0049ecd38c3fea40a1.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Nice condition! :like: :tu: :tu: :cheers:
Thanks Vicman and Boonies :cheers:My latest... Model 136aU...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171005/a3fb008dbabc9d0049ecd38c3fea40a1.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Very, very nice........the woodsaw on those things are "mean"!! :tu:
Nice knife! Great condition! Congrats! :cheers:Thanks JNOXID :cheers:
I just got this knife from an older gentleman on Craigslist this past weekend, was fun!
(https://preview.ibb.co/kr4vY6/huntsman.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ckxFY6)
I just got this knife from an older gentleman on Craigslist this past weekend, was fun!
I just got this knife from an older gentleman on Craigslist this past weekend, was fun!:drool: :like:
All these heirloom treasures are lovely! :drool::like: :tu:
I have only two contenders for being vintage enough. Both of the 1960-1973 Elinox variety.
If I am not mistaken the model numbers are 2232r & 2070r. Please excuse my subpar photography.
-Tom
Some knife content for the post:
A Wenger Tahara contracted for Neiman Marcus, I've never seen another like it before. All Stainless Steel I believe nickel silver liners and shims/stops.
Anyone seen a knife like this before? Pictured with a 58mm. Old crossbow stamp and INOXYD on the reverse.
Yes horn scales nickel silver rivets and liners. Its too small for a pocket pal no? 58mm with it for reference.
Anyone seen a knife like this before? Pictured with a 58mm. Old crossbow stamp and INOXYD on the reverse.
Anyone seen a knife like this before? Pictured with a 58mm. Old crossbow stamp and INOXYD on the reverse.
Thanks very cool. I'm sure this one predates that catalog though based on the stamps?
There was no name for that knife, just a number. Its a No 610. You can see that knife on page 31 of the 1942 catalog on sakwiki.
It should be 61 mm, not 58.
There was also a 610 ring version. Both very rare. Usually horn or mop scales.
I know of one like that for sale but with the long nail file on the back.Anyone seen a knife like this before? Pictured with a 58mm. Old crossbow stamp and INOXYD on the reverse.
Holy moly! That thing is awesome!!! Judging by the tang stamp it's from the '20s! (1923-1930)
Just 2 blades? Early version of Pocketpal or student? I'm guessing horn scales...
Yeah, the cross and corkscrew... Theyre not looking right either.And the answer is. ...Pradel
Really cool, interesting knife tho
I have a few questions about a new-to-me 58mm SAK that is inbound.Nice one FB :like:
I'd add that one to my collection if I got the chance!Thank you Mechanickal. I do hope the condition is as good as it seems it might be. Postal service says delivery is Jan 8th. :cry: Long wait.
Beautifull piece and in new condition as far as the picture goes.
Awesome! :tu:
Given that most 58mm's live a hard life dangling from a keychain, plus the date range it was made, this knife is in incredibly great shape! My brother in law is a huge railroad buff and would love to have one of these!I was shocked at the condition too, which is why I kind of overpaid for it. But, I thought it would go nicely with my other railroad SAK.
:drool: :drool: :drool: I don't know how you find these gems Lisa!!! :like: :like: :like:Good question!
Thank you Barry and Mechanickal, you are too kind.:drool: :drool: :drool: I don't know how you find these gems Lisa!!! :like: :like: :like:Good question!
Most be some sort of high-tech radar...
ftp://That is a nice looking knife FB! :like: :tu: :tu:Given that most 58mm's live a hard life dangling from a keychain, plus the date range it was made, this knife is in incredibly great shape! My brother in law is a huge railroad buff and would love to have one of these!I was shocked at the condition too, which is why I kind of overpaid for it. But, I thought it would go nicely with my other railroad SAK.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/500/32387572602_c6f0281d57.jpg)
I would love to see that myself Lisa :like:Thank you Barry! :tu:
That is a nice looking knife FB! :like: :tu: :tu:Thanks Vicman! Looks like I'm back to buying again. :D :cheers:
Question, is this 2 layer SAK a Spartan or a Standard?
Question, is this 2 layer SAK a Spartan or a Standard?
In my opinion, it's not a Spartan neither Standart. Spartan it's a relatively modern name for this knife, when it was produced, it has only numeric index, but no own name.
Just curious, how many rows in your spreadsmurf..Question, is this 2 layer SAK a Spartan or a Standard?
In my opinion, it's not a Spartan neither Standart. Spartan it's a relatively modern name for this knife, when it was produced, it has only numeric index, but no own name.
Thank you LeaF, I guess I'll put it in my spreadsheet as a 234.
Just curious, how many rows in your spreadsmurf..Question, is this 2 layer SAK a Spartan or a Standard?
In my opinion, it's not a Spartan neither Standart. Spartan it's a relatively modern name for this knife, when it was produced, it has only numeric index, but no own name.
Thank you LeaF, I guess I'll put it in my spreadsheet as a 234.
A lot of rows. :P :DThank you LeaF, I guess I'll put it in my spreadsheet as a 234., how many rows in your spreadsmurf..
I guess I'll put it in my spreadsheet as a 234.
Thank you, I didn't know that about the Elinox line. I believe it to be 91mm.I guess I'll put it in my spreadsheet as a 234.
Model numbers of Elinox knives are actually a little different than those of corresponding regular line knives: If this knife is 91mm, it's a 1234. If it's 84mm, it's a 1234k.
Turns out it's an 84mm: :tu:
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/919/40856228574_3d43c42ee8.jpg)
Thank you Barry and jaya_man. Every now and again something catches my eye (and I overpay), and this time I am very pleased with my purchase.:cheers:
:hatsoff:Thank you Barry and jaya_man. Every now and again something catches my eye (and I overpay), and this time I am very pleased with my purchase.:cheers:
Just to move this topic rolling a little bit with this one...:like:
Just to move this topic rolling a little bit with this one...
Just to move this topic rolling a little bit with this one...
Just to move this topic rolling a little bit with this one...
Just to move this topic rolling a little bit with this one...Name my friend? Im kinda new... :salute:
Just to move this topic rolling a little bit with this one...Name my friend? Im kinda new... :salute:
Spartan, no...did they use names for this year....interesting one...
I didn't realize this club existed. I'm pretty sure this pioneer qualifies. The Elinox stamp and the +PAT can opener most likely date it to the 60's.
Red & Blue FishermanGreat set! Congrats!
Red & Blue Fisherman
Red & Blue FishermanGreat set! Congrats!
Almost the same 😉 :cheers:Red & Blue FishermanGreat set! Congrats!
Thanks but you should have the same set, right? :pok:
Red & Blue Fisherman
I thought I might be in with a chance to join the club with this one ... four days before closing....
Now it belongs in the Crazy thread ....... :o
But what a beaut !!! And for its age - Perfect condition.
Anyone of you lot bought it? ??? Would be the centrepiece of the collection for sure !!
And must be one of the very first 'Champions' - Which I guess is why it went for so much
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Victorinox-Switzerland-Stainless-Officer-Knife-11-Blade-/332729185575?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&nma=true&si=1kx7yAyyZjFZrqfpvHcxV030kZQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
[/quote
Which year?
Are you asking how old it is? / Year of manufacture?Yes thanks, looking fo a 53 but that's quite the collector's price!
I’d say 53-57
My latest acquisition, an Old Soldat...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180808/c0b50bf10cee564c697e688cb26dbc5d.jpg)
Nice!Thanks... :hatsoff:
Here’s a recent addition... Model 235U(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180925/fff77997200f001a3f5c59153c8280ab.jpg):tu:
Requested by Jaya:
136ka
I'm guessing the same.Requested by Jaya:
136ka
With replacement scissor spring I reckon - Right ??
Clip-point small blade disappeared in 73ish - Double spring appeared in 75ish - So must be replacement
PS. :like:
To all of you recent picture posters !! :tu:
Very very nice El CS - Love the bails and rivetsThanks Ralph, :-) amazingly, no, I was lucky enough to find these awl in very good condition. I have the original box for the Elinox camper.
I am guessig some scale polishing has happened here
Craftsman, Champion, Elinox Camper, StandardO M G El C!
lol! Thanks, Tony! :cheers:Craftsman, Champion, Elinox Camper, StandardO M G El C!
:tu:
Champion A & B
Champion A & B
Champion A & BLove the long nail files... :like:
Early Golpher........no combo tool, just the clip point pen blade. Double leg spring but it is black oxided so guessing somewhere around ‘73. :cheers:I never would have thought that one to be an early golfer...if I understand your spelling. Either way...nice knife! :like:
:rofl: Thinking about the gopher that’s been digging tunnels around my horse corrals, guess he just slipped in here. 🤪:rofl: :rofl: good one
That knife must be a cross between a golfer and a gopher....new model. 😜
Looks like an Economy Huntsman.Thank you.
Looks like an Economy Huntsman.Thank you.
I also thought that,thank you,cheers.Looks like an Economy Huntsman.Thank you.
I thought to no T&T made it a Woodsman - Or is it too recent to be one of those - Definitely Economy with the worn our hot stamped shield logo
In the field.
Looks like an Economy Huntsman.Thank you.
I thought to no T&T made it a Woodsman - Or is it too recent to be one of those - Definitely Economy with the worn our hot stamped shield logo
Looks like an Economy Huntsman.Thank you.
I thought to no T&T made it a Woodsman - Or is it too recent to be one of those - Definitely Economy with the worn our hot stamped shield logo
That's entirely possible :)
The knife I had purchased a while back was a mystery about the cellophane.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4691/38662421824_ed92019c2d.jpg)
Other side:
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4594/25510907388_a8a21864bf.jpg)
Update:
I bought the knife seen below today. It solves the cellophane mystery for me. Apparently they either came packaged that way for the railroad, or when the railroad received them, they special boxed them.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4917/44080872030_89f458d198.jpg)
The knife I had purchased a while back was a mystery about the cellophane.
Other side:
Update:
I bought the knife seen below today. It solves the cellophane mystery for me. Apparently they either came packaged that way for the railroad, or when the railroad received them, they special boxed them.
My 2 old Officers knives.Wow! :o :like: :drool: :tu: :cheers:
Left: 1902 with scissors.
Right: 1930-1936 Spartan.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181128/48c2c91be329d4abda7328a34fa98109.jpg)
Thanks! :DMy 2 old Officers knives.Wow! :o :like: :drool: :tu: :cheers:
Left: 1902 with scissors.
Right: 1930-1936 Spartan.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181128/48c2c91be329d4abda7328a34fa98109.jpg)
1943 GourmetModel 248 to be precise...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181128/8a772e9d47d9e2cc0c79869244e4043c.jpg)
My 2 old Officers knives.Wow...very nice! :like: :hatsoff:
Left: 1902 with scissors.
Right: 1930-1936 Spartan.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181128/48c2c91be329d4abda7328a34fa98109.jpg)
1943 GourmetNot bad...not bad at all! :cheers:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181128/8a772e9d47d9e2cc0c79869244e4043c.jpg)
My 2 old Officers knives.
Left: 1902 with scissors.
Right: 1930-1936 Spartan.
1943 Gourmet
1952ish Fisherman/Angler
1952ish Fisherman/Angler
1952ish Fisherman/AnglerVery nice El C :salute:
I bought this one recently, a 40p:
old wengerI could live with one of those! :like: :tu:
old wenger:like:
thanks buddyold wengerI could live with one of those! :like: :tu:
No year sign, probably in the 1950s.old wenger:like:
Year?
old wenger
I'm guessing 91mm.I was looking at this SakWiki page and trying to compare the two.
Because I've never seen that type of can opener in 84mm. But that doesn't mean anything :)
I'm guessing 91mm.I was looking at this SakWiki page and trying to compare the two.
Because I've never seen that type of can opener in 84mm. But that doesn't mean anything :)
https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Victorinox+Huntsman+84mm
I can't tell if this is an 84mm or 91mm.:like:
What do you think?
If I had to guess I would think 84mm, but then that's because I'd like it to be an 84mm.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7913/40001547883_6dde1a0e5d.jpg)
I'm guessing 91mm.
Because I've never seen that type of can opener in 84mm. But that doesn't mean anything :)
Someone here posted and easy way to check 84 vs 91 from an ebay piccieCorrect, it has something to do with a pinky finger distance between the two I think. :think:
I'm guessing 91mm.
Because I've never seen that type of can opener in 84mm. But that doesn't mean anything :)
Hmmm ... The picture in the Wiki page? ??? ;)
Or is that a 91 masquerading as a 84? ???
Since this is a pre-1951 knife, it uses the old style dimensions so the typical ways of distinguishing 84mm and 91mm don't apply. The only things you can try to use are the size of the Victorinox logo on the scales (which is super tough) or use the saw, if there is one. 84mm knives from this era will have a 25T saw and 91mm will have a 27T saw. This looks like it has a 27T saw, but its hard to tell with the poor image quality/part of the saw hidden.Thank you JB for your input. I should have the knife in hand later this week to know for sure. :tu:
It's good to see you again jazzbass :salute::iagree: :tu:
I can't tell if this is an 84mm or 91mm.
What do you think?
If I had to guess I would think 84mm, but then that's because I'd like it to be an 84mm.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7913/40001547883_6dde1a0e5d.jpg)
Those are beauties Boonies! :like:I can't tell if this is an 84mm or 91mm.
What do you think?
If I had to guess I would think 84mm, but then that's because I'd like it to be an 84mm.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7913/40001547883_6dde1a0e5d.jpg)
Probably no help at all except to occupy your time while waiting for the postman..... :cheers:
Mine is 91mm, but I couldn't be happier. It's as if it was never used at all. I tucked the flap on the case to show the writing on the sheath.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7812/40056511783_a5bc4d70e6.jpg)
It's good to see you again jazzbass :salute:
:iagree: :tu::salute:
:iagree:Mine is 91mm, but I couldn't be happier. It's as if it was never used at all. I tucked the flap on the case to show the writing on the sheath.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7812/40056511783_a5bc4d70e6.jpg)
That's a great find. Those late 40s knives show up now and then in unused condition (spent their life at the bottom of a shoebox in a closet I imagine) and when you get one, you understand the quality and craftsmanship that went into them. They are solid. The snap is amazing. The fit and finish almost perfect and the blades are polished to a mirror shine. Modern SAKs are still well made, but ones from this era are simply on another level.It's good to see you again jazzbass :salute::iagree: :tu::salute:
That beauty and a case! You did very well! :cheers: :hatsoff:Those are beauties Boonies! :like:I can't tell if this is an 84mm or 91mm.
What do you think?
If I had to guess I would think 84mm, but then that's because I'd like it to be an 84mm.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7913/40001547883_6dde1a0e5d.jpg)
Probably no help at all except to occupy your time while waiting for the postman..... :cheers:
Mine is 91mm, but I couldn't be happier. It's as if it was never used at all. I tucked the flap on the case to show the writing on the sheath.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7812/40056511783_a5bc4d70e6.jpg)
Mine is 91mm, but I couldn't be happier. It's as if it was never used at all. I tucked the flap on the case to show the writing on the sheath.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7812/40056511783_a5bc4d70e6.jpg)
:hatsoff: and the sheath looks in good shape too!Those are beauties Boonies! :like:I can't tell if this is an 84mm or 91mm.
What do you think?
If I had to guess I would think 84mm, but then that's because I'd like it to be an 84mm.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7913/40001547883_6dde1a0e5d.jpg)
Probably no help at all except to occupy your time while waiting for the postman..... :cheers:
Mine is 91mm, but I couldn't be happier. It's as if it was never used at all. I tucked the flap on the case to show the writing on the sheath.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7812/40056511783_a5bc4d70e6.jpg)
Those are beauties Boonies! :like:
Mine is 91mm, but I couldn't be happier. It's as if it was never used at all. I tucked the flap on the case to show the writing on the sheath.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7812/40056511783_a5bc4d70e6.jpg)
Mine is 91mm, but I couldn't be happier. It's as if it was never used at all. I tucked the flap on the case to show the writing on the sheath.
I can't tell if this is an 84mm or 91mm.
What do you think?
If I had to guess I would think 84mm, but then that's because I'd like it to be an 84mm.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7913/40001547883_6dde1a0e5d.jpg)
Bumping one of my favorite threads :tu:Nice, what is that one you have there? :like:
Bumping one of my favorite threads :tu:
It's a simple Spartan but it's a superb quality and it looks very nice as well.:iagree:
Wait, I just saw that one on FB a minute ago. Very cool.
Bumping one of my favorite threads :tu:
Cool SAK MOrkoni! :like: :tu: :tu:
:tu:
Bumping one of my favorite threads :tu:Oh boy, that is a nice one! :like: :tu:
Bumping one of my favorite threads :tu:That is a beauty! :tu:
Bumping this thread back up with what I think is a Champion "a" version::like:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7810/33634452928_ce02db3e0e.jpg)
Bumping this thread back up with what I think is a Champion "a" version:
Very nice Lisa!! :drool::tu: :tu:
What's not to like about this SAK FBThat was a good read Huntsman, thank you for pointing out the link. :tu:and the best
- Bail
- Clip-point blade
- Long nail file
- PAT mark on CO
- Sharpened ws edge on SD
- Old style scissors
- Old style file
- Old style saw (teeth count?)
- Old style awl
And a narrow date range: Old awl, but hidden rivets - which as a few here know is a contraduction to Victorinox's tool evolution dates !!
See second link in the first post in this thread (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51872.msg881641.html#msg881641)
Bumping this thread back up with what I think is a Champion "a" version:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7810/33634452928_ce02db3e0e.jpg)
- Tang stamps - eg Is it a Victoria?Victoria from the seller's photo:
As you may have gathered - I love the old SAKs
That's the spacer next to the small blade. Looks like a bird head when disassembled. I picked up the term while lurking here...maybe only some of the modders use it? Some from this era are aluminum. Not sure if those are anodized.Oh, I didn't now that.
- Nickel sliver or aluminium tipped tweezersHappy to report it has nickel silver tipped tweezers, hard to capture in the photo.
Happy to report it has nickel silver tipped tweezers, hard to capture in the photo.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7841/47479058422_2ed7a04e1b.jpg)
Happy to report it has nickel silver tipped tweezers, hard to capture in the photo.
The best Champion I have ;)
The best Champion I have ;)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190404/f3bebb6a1837a284a981af3fb20945df.jpg)Nice one! :like:
The best Champion I have ;)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190404/f3bebb6a1837a284a981af3fb20945df.jpg)
:like: Fantastic! Definitely on my list!Nice vintage Hoffritz :tu:
I have a 235U:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7853/47484189082_7836d88c56_n.jpg)
Hoffritz on the back!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7909/47484189252_e5d2c08c0a_n.jpg)
One of the liners (Scissor) is strangely thin and aluminum ~0.52mm
A later +PAT Camper 234U has the Hoffritz/HSS front and VO crossbow on the back.
Two interesting Champions made for Hoffritz :Wow! Two beauties there jnoxyd! I have one in route to me like your bottom knife (only Hoffritz stamp), except mine is a Camper model.
Champion from 1957-1958 with hidden rivets (since 1957) and pre1957 old tools and stamps:
-39 teeth wood saw,
- square nail nick on LNF,
- aluminum small blade spacer,
- round section shape bail,
- VO CB stamp (1952-1957)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190407/27300acae5dca75d3254e03afdbf9b30.jpg)
Champion from early 1980s. It has only Hoffritz name on it, no Victorinox name in blade stamp!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190407/0fc65136ce587b8e132b0d6e75db5ce1.jpg)
Two interesting Champions made for Hoffritz :
Champion from 1957-1958 with hidden rivets (since 1957) and pre1957 old tools and stamps:
-39 teeth wood saw,
- square nail nick on LNF,
- aluminum small blade spacer,
- round section shape bail,
Champion from early 1980s. It has only Hoffritz name on it, no Victorinox name in blade stamp!
Two interesting Champions made for Hoffritz :
Champion from 1957-1958 with hidden rivets (since 1957) and pre1957 old tools and stamps:
-39 teeth wood saw,
- square nail nick on LNF,
- aluminum small blade spacer,
- round section shape bail,
- VO CB stamp (1952-1957)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190407/27300acae5dca75d3254e03afdbf9b30.jpg)
Champion from early 1980s. It has only Hoffritz name on it, no Victorinox name in blade stamp!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190407/0fc65136ce587b8e132b0d6e75db5ce1.jpg)
With the c.'77 version on top:Yes, I should say scissors has large screw and awl has pre 83 tip shape ;) I date it as 1980-1983 only due to steel Victorinox inlay emblem. They changed nickel silver emblem inlay to steel one around 1980, at least I don't know another version. Do you?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7822/40591265493_6239b18993_n.jpg)
Looking at mine again it looks closer to '79 and jnoxyd's might be more '78.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7878/40591265313_9b07604932_n.jpg)
Devil is in the detail.
Yes, I should say scissors has large screw and awl has pre 83 tip shape ;) I date it as 1980-1983 only due to steel Victorinox inlay emblem. They changed nickel silver emblem inlay to steel one around 1980, at least I don't know another version. Do you?
Yes, I should say scissors has large screw and awl has pre 83 tip shape ;) I date it as 1980-1983 only due to steel Victorinox inlay emblem. They changed nickel silver emblem inlay to steel one around 1980, at least I don't know another version. Do you?
Thanks for the answer, Kamakiri! So 1980 is not first year for stainless shield? All 1970s knives I have with double black scissors spring, blank blade stamp etc. have nickel silver inlay but I trust you. So my Hoffritz Champion is from late 1970s.
BTW do you know Hoffritz's name for Champion? They called it Super Knife (picture from 1979 Hoffritz catalog. Yes, they used old picture with clip point blade ) (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190407/57b229a5aec137640509be0b96b00a7c.jpg)
Amazing detail, information and pics lads - I am just thinking how we get this into the Wiki and/or my dating spreadsheet ? ??? :o
Nice Hoffritz catalogue - I always liked Hoffiritzs and have three or four including what I always thought was a SwissChamp - So should I be calling it a Super Knife? Or was that only the Champion?We need to find a Hoffritz catalog after '86 to find out! I have some of those Champs but no idea if they got a newer name. Worst part is I think I've seen that page before...before I cared about this subject! :facepalm:
So here's a question and observation - The catalogue calls the blade a spear-point blade - Which I think is wrong - and BTW is a common mistake - SAKWiki also often calls this blade a spear-pointI think you're right, but some of the older knives did have machined bevels on the top side/spine in the curved area toward the tip. Never to a sharp edge, but still very visible.
I believe a spear-point blade has sharpened edges on both sides of the point ? Think of ..... errrm ..... a spear :think: :whistle:
I believer the classic Swiss Army Knife blade has a drop-point blade - As the smooth unsharpened top of the blade drops down to the point
What say you? ???
And how about something more fun in the mean time? :D:like: :gimme: I'd settle for just the box. :tu:Show content(https://live.staticflickr.com/7870/47508340712_7a89cc492b_n.jpg)Show content(https://live.staticflickr.com/7875/47508340432_a64e1d339a_n.jpg)Show content(https://live.staticflickr.com/7822/47508341062_a8f6921f5b_n.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7828/47508340632_fa1028bfbd_n.jpg)
:like: :gimme: I'd settle for just the box. :tu:
Here's mod.1973 in early 1970s catalog and booklet. There's +Pat stamp on can opener, just curious why?
One more Champion today.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/96dd828739d0c94fd792ca5c13e5ba5e.jpg) I believe it is one of the first mod.1973 with mag glass and Phillips line. It still has 2.7mm main blade with Victoria Officier crossbow stamp and clip point small blade.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/ec56cfc14e491ee12d5a7aa101285573.jpg)
Here's mod.1973 in early 1970s catalog and booklet. There's +Pat stamp on can opener, just curious why?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/cb44886de18cb4b551b4c569970d8018.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/b22fa78e9c19babf4d0893111c79d1b0.jpg)
Here's the real McCoy 8) Nice to see it in a catalog!I dont see a saw buddy, so did ya mean Climber (Spartan w/scizzors )?
Actually, I've always loved this knife, because it's the only colored Small Huntsman I have (and I do have several...). Does anyone know what brand or company that is? I have no idea...
Here's the real McCoy 8) Nice to see it in a catalog!Very nice knife Herman! It is really rare for it's color/size/age.
Actually, I've always loved this knife, because it's the only colored Small Huntsman I have (and I do have several...). Does anyone know what brand or company that is? I have no idea...
I'm curious, what defines vintage to y'awl when it comes to Swiss Army Knives??
I have a, I think, Climber with a metal file, maybe Mountineer?my dad had this one, prior to the 70's I'm sure..
Only awl and small straight driver under corkscrew as back tools.
Screw scizzors, metal TW tip, lines on the corkscrew.
Wiki was close... was a Swiss Jewel Co. giveaway.....
Thanks for the help! :think:
I have a, I think, Climber with a metal file, maybe Mountineer?
Only awl and small straight driver under corkscrew as back tools.
Screw scizzors, metal TW tip, lines on the corkscrew.
Wiki was close... was a Swiss Jewel Co. giveaway.....
Thanks for the help! :think:
I'm curious, what defines vintage to y'awl when it comes to Swiss Army Knives??For me anything with a bail or earlier - Nothing later - As that is basically what we have today - So cannot be vintage !
See below .... as the back SD came in in 1977
One more Champion today.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/96dd828739d0c94fd792ca5c13e5ba5e.jpg) I believe it is one of the first mod.1973 with mag glass and Phillips line. It still has 2.7mm main blade with Victoria Officier crossbow stamp and clip point small blade.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/ec56cfc14e491ee12d5a7aa101285573.jpg)
Here's mod.1973 in early 1970s catalog and booklet. There's +Pat stamp on can opener, just curious why?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/cb44886de18cb4b551b4c569970d8018.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/b22fa78e9c19babf4d0893111c79d1b0.jpg)
Ah OK - Thanks K
My date came from the SAAM's blog (http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php#finescrew)
So it looks like SAAM's is wrong - It has been wrong on lots of other items !!! :-[
The piccie of the file certainly has a nail cleaner tip which it says came in in 75 - Or was that 73 too!! :think:
Are you sure about 73 - ie Same time as mag glass and inline phillips ......... Would make sense ie for the new seven layer Champion
If so I can change in my spready and that date is also in the wiki in a couple of places !!
My date came from the SAAM's blog (http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php#finescrew)The situation with the (wrong) 1977 date for the backside fine screwdriver is actually more complicated, because the source of this isn't just SAAM's (http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php#finescrew), but the "official Victorinox chronology" (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=75774.0;attach=356509) (as it appears in the document Everything you need to know about Multi-tools and cutlery (https://www.nyttigbras.dk/nblibrary/victorinox-everything-you-need-to-know-about-multi-tools-and-cutlery.pdf) and also in both the second edition and the third edition of the book by Derek Jackson (https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Book+List#A_Collector_s_Companion)). However, as Kamakiri correctly pointed out and JAZZBASS previously explained in detail (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,45676.msg1180789.html#msg1180789), we very clearly see this fine screwdriver appearing along with the magnifying glass just before the end of the Victoria era. Hence, 1973 is probably the best year one can assign to it.
So it looks like SAAM's is wrong - It has been wrong on lots of other items !!! :-[
The piccie of the file certainly has a nail cleaner tip which it says came in in 75 - Or was that 73 too!! :think:Yes, 1973 is probably the best year to assign to this change of the file tip as well.
If so I can change in my spreadyIf you are going to change your "spready" you may want to also look at the 40 posts that accumulated in the relevant thread (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51872.0.html) after you posted the last version and contain many suggested corrections. :D
......
Yes, 1973 is probably the best year to assign to this change of the file tip as well.If you are going to change your "speedy" you may want to also look at the 40 posts that accumulated in the relevant thread (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51872.0.html) after you posted the last version and contain many suggested corrections. :D
.......
Give me a while to process it -
I think a couple of principles (that are already listed in the sheet) will stand:
- The table is mainly for 91mm
- Dates are always estimates !!
To those I might add - That I will concentrate on visible/external changes - Eg: Some of the spring changes are very subtle!!
Having said that I will get it as accurate as possible - and also try to get as much into the chart as I can
So, surprise, surprise - We will have a version X !! ......And probably beyond !
..............
Ah OK - Thanks KC'mon friends, SAAM created its wonderful site 10+ years ago, this site was one of the best at that time and yes, it used the existing dating at that time. I really like it so far. I recently asked him about corrections in some dates, but apparently he is busy with other things now. Anyway, thanks to him for his work.
My date came from the SAAM's blog (http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php#finescrew)
So it looks like SAAM's is wrong - It has been wrong on lots of other items !!! :-[
C'mon friends, SAAM created its wonderful site 10+ years ago, this site was one of the best at that time and yes, it used the existing dating at that time. I really like it so far. I recently asked him about corrections in some dates, but apparently he is busy with other things now. Anyway, thanks to him for his work.I don't know SAAM, but to the best of my understanding, the site was created in October 2009 (just under 10 years ago) and its creation was discussed in this MTO thread (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,14646.0.html). In spite of limited activity (about two weeks in the second half of October 2009 and three days in March 2014) this thread is still an important source of information about certain SAK evolution issues that I don't recall seeing discussed elsewhere (such as the removal of the 7.5cm mark (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,14646.msg854047.html#msg854047) from the fish scaler around 1987).
... this thread is still an important source of information about certain SAK evolution issues that I don't recall seeing discussed elsewhere..."
84mmCool 84mm ! Thanks for sharing, Marko ;)
Cool 84mm ! Thanks for sharing, Marko ;)
84mmVery nice! :drool: Recent acquisition?
Champion with 39 teeth saw
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190513/64ec4e28124b984f0a83c9393105a087.jpg)
Picture for MiniChamp ;) :
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190513/5328a313178ec2e5cbc3a235729ac02b.jpg)
Haha, thank you! What is your treatment for rust metal saw? Acid?
Very nice! :drool: Recent acquisition?
Haha, thank you! What is your treatment for rust metal saw? Acid?
Thank you, no it's not recent. Its one of mine 84mm. I manage to grab it before some time and it's in an excellent condition.. I certainly looks excellent! Just curious. I'm trying hard not to expand my collecting to pre WWII era knives...but knives like yours make me reconsider!
:DCan you say what acid/concentration/temperature or it is top secret? Once I tried ortophosforic acid low concentration and got nice deep patina
Yes, as a last resort for anything that doesn't come off mechanically, I attack it chemically...whatever it is. The worst knives need to go back and forth between the two.
Can you say what acid/concentration/temperature or it is top secret? Once I tried ortophosforic acid low concentration and got nice deep patinaEesh. That's what I fear once I go chemical. I suspect you left it in too long?
There seems to be some confusion here. I was writing about (and providing a link to) another thread, titled "Victorinox 91mm Tools Evolution," that was started in October 2009, discusses the formation of SAAM's site (http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php), and is available at this URL: https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,14646.0.html...this thread is still an important source of information about certain SAK evolution issues that I don't recall seeing discussed elsewhere...That was my main point about this thread. From my first post here:
Champion with 39 teeth sawCool! :like: Can you show (or describe) the tang stamps on the main blade of this Champion? Thanks!
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190513/64ec4e28124b984f0a83c9393105a087.jpg)
Picture for MiniChamp ;) :
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190513/5328a313178ec2e5cbc3a235729ac02b.jpg)
Tony - What precisely is your question here please? :think:
Are you asking what model you have? or what age is your model? or what? - It is not clear !
For sure it is not a Climber if it has a file, if it is Spartan plus scissors and file - It is a Mountaineer
If it has the back-spring screwdriver, by my definition - It is not vintage! See below .... as the back SD came in in19771973 ;)
....... And also not a Mountaineer - As I don't think that model had one
For model queries see here:
https://sakwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page=Victorinox+91mm
For dating queries see here:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51872.msg1629826.html#msg1629826
Could be a custom model for the Swiss Jewel Company - If so please describe all tools layers etc - and we could put in in the Wiki as variation
Please see my original reply ...... :pok:Sorry and thanks! Asking the experts. Yes, model, maybe I didn't Wiki enough... year? my dad had it when I was young and I am now 65 ...
Sorry and thanks! Asking the experts. Yes, model, maybe I didn't Wiki enough... year? my dad had it when I was young and I am now 65 ...
It is a basic Climber tool set add metal file. Only back tools are the awl and a flat type driver/scraper kinda hidden by the corkscrew which has the ridges, 4 turns.
The belt pouch is a brown basket weave type, on the belt loop is stamped 28-009 but I may have purchased it later. Oh, the Tweezers has a metal tip too.
Hoping to add to this great effort- The scizzors spring (screw scizzors) I can't replace with ones I just got from a certain Knife Shop, should have left the half broken, it worked...
And as mentioned Swiss Jewel Company on reverse, regular Vic shield on the obverse.
Thanks dont sweat it, again, just contributing! May try to get an Avi shot if necessary.
Thanks again gang :salute:
Cool! :like: Can you show (or describe) the tang stamps on the main blade of this Champion? Thanks!Stamps are VO CB and VSS, used c.1952-1957 imho
Stamps are VO CB and VSS, used c.1952-1957 imhoCool! :tu: Thanks! :hatsoff:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190514/5e49791b437d9162a1211cd9bd65cd13.jpg)
Hey TonySure does help and thanks! :cheers:
So this sounds like a custom Mountaineer to me - Custom as they have added the fine screwdriver on the back of the file - which would be normal for a Champion from that period, but not a Mountaineer.
Maybe it was customised for the Swiss Jewel Company - as they thought the fine SD would be good for jewelers - eg Prizing back off watch or watch spring etc
I used to have a lot of confidence in my dating spreadsheet - However now I get very nervous with my dates, as there are way more knowledgeable people than me around, who correct me. >:D However .....
I would say the model comes from 73-78. 73 as you have the SD and four looped corkscrew 78 as you have metal tipped tweezers
Does the file have the smooth end or does the file surface go right up to the tip? That would but it before or after 75
You can check the file and screwdriver shapes here - This is the SAAMs site we talked about earlier in this thread - So bear in mind some dates are out! eg Corkscrew and SD!
http://victorinox.metodi.me/91mmtools.php#finescrew
The double spring came in in 75 too - So a Vic replacement spring could fit - It is quite hard to get in without the special tool but can be done
If the scissors had the single leafed spring I think a newer spring can still be used if you pinch the wee loop with pliers a bit to make it smaller ? ???
Hope that helps
Does the file have the smooth end or does the file surface go right up to the tip? That would but it before or after 75*cough* '73.
The double spring came in in 75 too
Stamps are VO CB and VSS, used c.1952-1957 imho
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190514/5e49791b437d9162a1211cd9bd65cd13.jpg)
I think the 2.5mm end pins confirm the date range too? My guess is that it has an aluminum 'bird head' spacer ~1.6mm thick.Yes, you are right ;). Also round in cross section bail, rectangular notch on LNF usual for 1952-1957 knives but MiniChamp put this wood saw type into 1954-1955 time range.
Stamps are VO CB and VSS, used c.1952-1957 imho
I used to have a lot of confidence in my dating spreadsheet - However now I get very nervous with my dates, as there are way more knowledgeable people than me around, who correct me. >:D
Nice pics jnoxyd! :like: :tu: :tu:
I have the same Champion model only mine has the phillips screwdriver instead of the cork screw.
It has the same blade stampings.
It was NOS in the box when I bought it.
Click on pictures for best pictures
See what I mean !!:D
I had a feeling that you'd say exactly that! ie 75 --> 73
Although I even asked for corrections in my dating thread - I am just dealing with the tidal wave
- And it's all good - As the collective knowledge improves!!
I think to M0rkoni's point in creating this thread, it's easier to discuss chronology when you're already looking at a picture example of a knife and various members are estimating/evaluating it's likely production date.
:like:
Excellent example VICMAN!!
:D
It looks like 84mm Super Tinker with LNF is not so common as 84mm Climber small LNF What do you think?
It looks like 84mm Super Tinker with LNF is not so common as 84mm Climber small LNF What do you think?
It looks like 84mm Super Tinker with LNF is not so common as 84mm Climber small LNF What do you think?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190601/4ef6e6a46aefdf84aab7c3cea9d40fb3.jpg)
Nice Hoffritz catalogue - I always liked Hoffiritzs and have three or four including what I always thought was a SwissChamp - So should I be calling it a Super Knife? Or was that only the Champion?
We need to find a Hoffritz catalog after '86 to find out! I have some of those Champs but no idea if they got a newer name. Worst part is I think I've seen that page before...before I cared about this subject! :facepalm:
Found it...The Hoffritz SwissChamps were called: 'Deluxe Super Swiss Army Knife' cat. #11452 in 1987 and/or possibly updated to #11460 in 1988.Great find! Can you show pictures please? I believe there are many funny names for other knives ;)
Great find! Can you show pictures please? I believe there are many funny names for other knives ;)
from 1987:You are right, here are pics for illustration ;)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48080052386_d3bd1b49a4.jpg)
And yeah, very funny names. Going through all the Hoffritz stuff here, it's strange how they generally followed all the 'standard' US market names...until they didn't c. '74...and wow.
My favorite so far is that their 84mm Master Craftsman #136 was actually called that back in the '60s. :D And the 91mm 136U was simultaneously called a Craftsman #2236. I long suspected that too, but also found that yesterday in the 1960 catalog. Numbers for both stayed the same in the '68 catalog, but the names aren't used.
But this has gotta be my favorite thing to find:
But this has gotta be my favorite thing to find:Oh Dear :facepalm:
Oh Dear :facepalm:
Maybe for the Australian market? ??? :pok:
You are right, here are pics for illustration ;)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190617/9d7278079c6e0d9e43495a4ed98e769f.jpg)
But they called lately 84mm Master Craftsman ... Explorer (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190617/2c9394496e452d786b2b73fc6a962c96.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190617/7b97bb81aa19abbd02129cf0b6734a39.jpg)
And then in '79 the Hoff 'Explorer' grows to 91mm and numbered F11037...all crazy. I still need to find one of those.So Victorinox didn't produce 84mm Master Craftsman after 1978.
So Victorinox didn't produce 84mm Master Craftsman after 1978.
BTW here are both sizes together:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190620/c94efaf68c17320dd5cf2efb077f6dba.jpg)
It looks like 84mm Super Tinker with LNF is not so common as 84mm Climber small LNF What do you think?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190601/4ef6e6a46aefdf84aab7c3cea9d40fb3.jpg)
Very nice find. This is only the third one of these I've ever seen. ColoSwiss had one with MOP scales and I have a red scaled version with bail (that I got from ColoSwiss for a SwissChamp XL). 145ka for yours, 145kaU for mine. All look to be from around the same time period (late 1960s) but with different variants could be three separate production runs. Which would make you think there were more of them out there, but no... they're one of the rarest post WWII 84mm knives.Thanks jazzbass
I suspect main line production stopped for 84mm Master Craftsman by/before '76 based on the '76 dealer catalog showing the Fish Scaler version. '78 end date could be right for the Hoffritz versions. My guess is whenever the 84mm metal saws ran out. My latest (Hoffritz) is c. '76 production. After that any Hoffritz should have an inlay.
I still need to find a date for when the T&T was 'normally' included on the 91mm versions. Seeing yours makes me think it could be '65-'66.
The newest 136kmaU (84mm Master Craftsman) I've ever seen dates to about c. 1972/73. This is from a sample size of about 50. The earliest I've seen is c. 1960 with hidden rivets and the large triangular awl. 1974 seems to be when Victorinox really made a massive change in their product lines and philosphy - revamping all of the 91mm products (2.7mm > 2.4mm blades, clip point to spear point, dropping the LNF), changing some stuff on the 93mm lines (Elsener > Victorinox), and really starting to de-emphasize the 84mm and position it as more of a kid/economy product vs. just being slightly smaller variants of the 91mm line. Post 1974 you almost never see and 4 and 5 layer 84mm knives with the exception of a couple special runs, and 3 layer 84mm are all but gone by the early 1980s.
84mm metal saws were still used in special runs through the 1980s (I have an 84mm Grand Prix small from c. 1986), and 84mm scissors were still used in a handful of small runs in the early 90s, but then they to go the way of the dodo.
I think you're correct with c. 1966. In the period 1962-1969 there's a major change to the wood saw from a 29 tooth asymmetric style (29TA) to a 29 tooth symmetric design (29TS - the current design). Numbers suggest that this change happened c. 1966. When you look at Master Crafsman knives from this period, almost every knife with a 29TA saw = no T&T, and almost every knife with a 29TS saw = T&T.
There are another two knives I've not seen often: 84mm "Hiker" and ""Camper" small, mod. 137kU and 237k. Who of you has such knives?
Very nice find. This is only the third one of these I've ever seen. ColoSwiss had one with MOP scales and I have a red scaled version with bail (that I got from ColoSwiss for a SwissChamp XL). 145ka for yours, 145kaU for mine. All look to be from around the same time period (late 1960s) but with different variants could be three separate production runs. Which would make you think there were more of them out there, but no... they're one of the rarest post WWII 84mm knives.
Here`s another one with original sheet, produced for General Motors, end of the 50-ies.It's a beautiful SAK. Thanks for posting this image. I don't have this model, unfortunately, but here is a first generation Hiker small of the kind mentioned above by JAZZBASS.
I just posted (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,76947.msg1956059.html#msg1956059) links to several Victorinox catalog compilations in the catalogs thread. I find it intriguing how some of the recent discussion here seems to be reflected in differences that can be observed between the "Gesamt-Katalog bis 1970" and the "Gesamt-Katalog bis 1980." The attached image shows, side by side, the catalog page with the list of Victoria officer's knife models from the "Gesamt-Katalog bis 1970" (I'm guessing that the actual page is from the early 1960's) and the corresponding page from the "Gesamt-Katalog bis 1980" (I'm guessing that the actual page is from the early 1970's).
Most of the changes involve models getting manually deleted in the newer catalog. I believe that this reflects the withdrawal of these models in the early 1970's or slightly before then. One can see, in particular, the withdrawal of most 84mm models with more than two layers (with the notable exception of the three layer models with scissors), as discussed above by JAZZBASS. There are also some other subtle differences, such as the fact that model 136mU in the older catalog is replaced by model 136maU in the newer one (something that was also discussed above).
Here`s another one with original sheet, produced for General Motors, end of the 50-ies.
might the documents be Jan '69 and comparing Jan '69 to July '71? :dunno:Probably not. While I don't know what the numbers are, I don't think that they designate dates (also XII isn't 7 and the right page doesn't seem to be doing by itself any kind of comparison). Moreover, the theory about 136mU being replaced by 136maU around 1966 suggests that the left page is from before 1966.
On the first/left doc, it would be nice to have the pics that correlate to: "the 12 illustrated models" and "the other 24 master-selling models"??? A picture of "the 12 illustrated models" is precisely the content of the preceding page in each of the actual PDF Gesamt-Katalog documents. I'm not familiar with any picture of "the other 24 best-selling models."
Probably not. While I don't know what the numbers are, I don't think that they designate dates (also XII isn't 7 and the right page doesn't seem to be doing by itself any kind of comparison). Moreover, the theory about 136mU being replaced by 136maU around 1966 suggests that the left page is from before 1966.
??? A picture of "the 12 illustrated models" is precisely the content of the preceding page in each of the actual PDF Gesamt-Katalog documents. I'm not familiar with any picture of "the other 24 best-selling models."
Here`s another one with original sheet, produced for General Motors, end of the 50-ies.That knife is fantastic! Is this in your collection? I have some questions if so.
Returning to 84mm Master Craftsman:
Three wood saw types:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190626/e2581f6e5910593be7a2a3cbed2f33c2.jpg)
And I should have asked what 'bird head' spacer is on the middle one. I suspect nickel silver and not aluminum. I'd expect aluminum on early '60s with hidden awls.
I've seen you asking about the pen blade spacer - what exactly would you like to know about these?I'm trying to use it as a tool to date knives in the mid-'60s. Use of aluminum seems pretty consistent for indicating early 60's and nickel silver used exclusively after some date. It seems to differ enough from other mid-'60s features like saw teeth and polishing and the earlier tweezer head material change over.
BTW - have you posted pics of your 136kmaU from 1976? Love to see those - that's the latest one of these I know of.
I'm trying to use it as a tool to date knives in the mid-'60s. Use of aluminum seems pretty consistent for indicating early 60's and nickel silver used exclusively after some date. It seems to differ enough from other mid-'60s features like saw teeth and polishing and the earlier tweezer head material change over.
It's weird because it's almost like they went 35TAP > 25TAP > 35TAM > 25TSM*.??? I'm a little confused by this statement. Are you proposing that they actually did something else? If so, what?
??? I'm a little confused by this statement. Are you proposing that they actually did something else? If so, what?
Is it my odd naming that is confusing?No. The confusing thing for me was the statement "it's almost like" which seems to suggest that they actually did something different. I believe that your proposed ordering and chronology are correct.
That knife is fantastic! Is this in your collection? I have some questions if so.
In the taxonomy I developed for my collection, I call the time period from 62-69 the "late vintage" or LVNT period. In the LVNT period there is a change from thin 1.0mm aluminum pen blade spacer to nickel silver. In general this coincided with the change from polished to machined saws and silver > black scissor springs.I already understood that much. I'm trying to assign/estimate dates for these smaller changes, like I have done for the '70s/91mm.
Thin aluminum spacers come into being in the last part of the "mid vintage" (57-62) period. Prior to that they used a thicker 1.5mm spacer that was either aluminum or nickel silver in no way that seems to indicate preference. The thicker spacer goes away when the main/pen blade backspring is redesigned c 1960 to go from a design that was thicker at the pen blade side to one that was of uniform thickness (roughly 2.75mm).
Let's do some serious vintageCool!!! :salute: :like:
It's quite large. Here is a comparison of the screwdriver between other models:I'm a bit puzzled. Ulli's table (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50014.60.html#att306974) lists 1901 as the end year of the "Gesetzlich Geschützt" SD stamps. Also, as was recently discussed (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,79865.msg1819876.html#msg1819876) in Ulli's pictorial evolution thread, he thinks that Victorinox moved to three visible rivets around 1909. Are you sure about the dating estimate for the model 234k in that image?
(https://i.imgur.com/0BUzXhx.jpg)
Cool!!! :salute: :like:
I'm a bit puzzled. Ulli's table (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50014.60.html#att306974) lists 1901 as the end year of the "Gesetzlich Geschützt" SD stamps.
Great knife in excellent condition. Nice to see it again here.
Three wood saw types:Cool pics (as usual), Jnoxyd. :like: I attach an image of the fourth type of wood saw from the 1960's that was mentioned by JAZZBASS.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190626/e2581f6e5910593be7a2a3cbed2f33c2.jpg)
AFAIK, the chronology of the 84mm wood saw goes like this:If I understand correctly, this proposed chronology relates only to Victoria SAKs. AFAIK, things were a bit different for the Elinox line. I believe that the unpolished saws with 35 asymmetric teeth were first introduced on Elinox SAKs in the late 1950's and then when they started using them on the Victoria line, they didn't really make any new type of saw, but rather just adopted the Elinox saw variant for use on the Victoria line. It's possible that these saws with 35 teeth also lasted longer on Elinox SAKs, because they can be found on model 1240kU SAKs with a keyring. (So either these saws lasted longer on the Elinox line, or that the keyring was introduced on the Elinox line before it was introduced on the Victoria line, or both.)
c. 1955: 35TAP
c. 1963: 25TAP (this is the rare one)
c. 1963: 35TAM
c. 1966: 25TSM
I find it interesting that they tried the 25TAP saw very briefly after about a year into the LVNT period, but then got rid of it almost immediately in favor of the older 35T saw (this time machined and not polished). I'd love to know why they didn't like the 25TAP version.
Cool pics (as usual), Jnoxyd. :like: I attach an image of the fourth type of wood saw from the 1960's that was mentioned by JAZZBASS.
If I understand correctly, this proposed chronology relates only to Victoria SAKs. AFAIK, things were a bit different for the Elinox line. I believe that the unpolished saws with 35 asymmetric teeth were first introduced on Elinox SAKs in the late 1950's and then when they started using them on the Victoria line, they didn't really make any new type of saw, but rather just adopted the Elinox saw variant for use on the Victoria line. It's possible that these saws with 35 teeth also lasted longer on Elinox SAKs, because they can be found on model 1240kU SAKs with a keyring. (So either these saws lasted longer on the Elinox line, or that the keyring was introduced on the Elinox line before it was introduced on the Victoria line, or both.)
What tweezer, scissor spring and 'birdhead' go with that 25TAP?Aluminum spacer, no tweezers (missing) and no real scissors spring (there is a small relic suggesting a silver spring).
Aluminum spacer, no tweezers (missing) and no real scissors spring (there is a small relic suggesting a silver spring).
Let's do some serious vintage - probably the favorite knife in my collection, the 1905 Model 290:
(https://i.imgur.com/XPGVccg.jpg)
Cool!!! :salute: :like:
Also, as was recently discussed (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,79865.msg1819876.html#msg1819876) in Ulli's pictorial evolution thread, he thinks that Victorinox moved to three visible rivets around 1909.
Yay :iagree: I very well remember the fascinating thread when JB first found this model :tu: Thanks
- Some interesting tools too
BTW - What is the wee tool between the saw and opener? And are the scales are glued on?
This is one change I'm still not sure about.Thanks a lot for the detailed reply! :hatsoff: It seems to be really hard to figure out this early evolution and it's extremely interesting to know your current perspective.
I haven't seen any sources for the 1909 date other than the "official" Victorinox timelineAre you referring to the famous (attached) image? If so, it's not really clear to me that they ever said anything about moving to three visible rivets. The fact that the second officer's knife from the top has only three visible rivets may be a consequence of not considering it a significant detail. The thing that they do explicitly mention about 1909 (in the text accompanying the image as well is in their official chronology (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=75774.0;attach=356509)) is that this is the year when they started to inlay the Swiss shield on the fiber scales. This is something that they also say as part of telling their history outside chronology lists (in their 1984 book "The Knife and its History" as well as in the book by Derek Jackson (https://books.google.co.il/books?id=N5R2DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA40)).
I believe it to be a leather punch. Here's a closer detail of it along with a detail view of the hoof pick w/ file and drill tool.This tool was quite common on multiblade folding knives with many blades in the late 19th century, but I don't recall seeing it on any Victorinox SAK other than this model 290. I attach some images of an old 9-layer knife that has this tool. As can be seen from the image showing it along with a Swiss champ, it is quite small (80mm long). It's a very well made knife. Really impressive craftsmanship, but not nearly as impressive as what you can see in the following link:
(https://i.imgur.com/uL7u6Bh.jpg)
The interesting thing about it is that it's hollow - if you look at the end it's not a solid awl like we're all used to.
An interesting knife on eBay :
-1963 advertisement
- triangular awl
- aluminum small blade spacer
There are many difficulties to date a knife. One important thing is, that often, there`s not a changing point where one new tool replace an old one. One exception is the can opener. But for the screwdriver/caplifter for example, the old one was used for a long time where the new one already was introduced. You also could order a knife with the old or the new tool. The same thing with the rivets. I know some knives from arount 1900 with only 3 rivets and I know knives with 4 rivets from arount 1915. For mop scales for example, they used alway only 3 visible rivets - 2 rivets on smaller, 75 mm knives. And Victorinox provided some knifemakers with tool/scale kits. Then it was up to the knifemaker if they want to build up a knife with 3 or 4 visible pins.
Let's do some serious vintage - probably the favorite knife in my collection, the 1905 Model 290:Now that is really cool and interesting knife! :like: :cheers:
(https://i.imgur.com/XPGVccg.jpg)
It's quite large. Here is a comparison of the screwdriver between other models:
[pic removed for bad info - will repost later]
An interesting knife on eBay :
-1963 advertisement
- triangular awl
- aluminum small blade spacer
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F233275192707
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190701/ec7424a279a6c8547f9aeb106df655e3.jpg)
There are many difficulties to date a knife.True, but this is what makes it fun. :D
One important thing is, that often, there`s not a changing point where one new tool replace an old one.True, most transitions take time and there are also other complexities, such as changes occurring at different times for different SAK models, but it shouldn't be beyond our ability to deal with such complexities.
But for the screwdriver/caplifter for example, the old one was used for a long time where the new one already was introduced. You also could order a knife with the old or the new tool.Many thanks for this very interesting information. :hatsoff: Can you explain how you know this? Also, do you have any estimates for the start and/or end of this long transition?
The same thing with the rivets. I know some knives from arount 1900 with only 3 rivets and I know knives with 4 rivets from arount 1915. For mop scales for example, they used alway only 3 visible rivets - 2 rivets on smaller, 75 mm knives.I think that it is well understood that things were a bit different for special scales, etc. (the above shown model 290, for example, seems to have just one semi-visible rivet). For me, at least, the core question concerning the transition to three visible rivets is about officer knives with fiber scales. It's certainly possible that it was a long transition, but then it should have started at some point and ended on another and I'm very curious to know when.
And Victorinox provided some knifemakers with tool/scale kits. Then it was up to the knifemaker if they want to build up a knife with 3 or 4 visible pins.This information about such hybrid production taking place is also very interesting. Can you explain how you know this? Thanks!
Fiber scales with cap lifter, 1931 on scaleIt's a very interesting knife! :like: Do have more pictures of it? If so, it would be great if you post them as well.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190701/200168513e84181f93fe0015e641be80.jpg)
It's a very interesting knife! :like: Do have more pictures of it? If so, it would be great if you post them as well.It is not my knife to my regret, here are all pictures I have.
It is not my knife to my regret, here are all pictures I have.Thanks! :salute:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190702/e09c9d2c71c5c0159236fe420d4d85fc.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190702/ac7367c065b71e559ebfc9db8914ab17.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190702/549ce662920e7ea5a0f4783d93a985ec.jpg)
Thanks! :salute:You are welcome ;)
Can you help me with dating this 242 kU? No Victorinox shield on scales, steel liners, rivets and small blade spacer, nickel silver bail, back spring thickness decreases from one side to another. It has some imperfection in the form of a protruding spring with the main blade open.Interesting knife, Jnoxyd! :like: I hope that someone will indeed be able to shed some light on it. It may help if you could clarify the following:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190710/7be382b13034368cef4578756054a1c6.jpg)
Can you help me with dating this 242 kU? No Victorinox shield on scales, steel liners, rivets and small blade spacer, nickel silver bail, back spring thickness decreases from one side to another. It has some imperfection in the form of a protruding spring with the main blade open.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190710/7be382b13034368cef4578756054a1c6.jpg)
Interesting knife, Jnoxyd! :like: I hope that someone will indeed be able to shed some light on it. It may help if you could clarify the following:Hi, MiniChamp. Blades, liners, rivets and spacer all are made of carbon steel, scales are from very good quality fiber. Riveting is really professional, it looks like factory made.Thanks!
- Are the blades and spring made of carbon steel?
- What type of steel (carbon/stainless) are the liners, rivets and small blade spacer made of?
- What material are the scales made of?
For me this knife looks a bit strange. The mainblade is original, thats for sure.Thanks for the answer, Wengercollector. I think you are right, it looks like this is what you said, it explains the protruding spring.
But the scales, shackle, liners, pins not. Thats my opinion. If you compare the knife with the picture of the shown No 242k, you can see that the pin on the feet of the knife is more in the middle, where the original is more left; the middle pin is far more down to the feet.
I think long time ago, someone brought the knife to a knifemaker for repair because of a broken mainblade. He changed it and used a blade he had, a Victoria blade. Such things were pretty common those days. Because everything was handmade and hand adjusted, so no problem for a knifemaker. The blade is from around 1910, so really old.
Hi, MiniChamp. Blades, liners, rivets and spacer all are made of carbon steel, scales are from very good quality fiber. Riveting is really professional, it looks like factory made.Thanks for the info, Jnoxyd! :hatsoff:
I just would like to compare this knife with another 84mm from this time period (my picture above is from late 1940s catalog)I'm not sure what information you are looking for, but I looked at the three fiber-scaled tourists in the attached image, which I believe to be from the relevant time period. I tend to believe that the one on the right is from the 1910's, the one on the center from the 1920's and the one on the left from the 1930's.
Thanks Barry...:iagree: :salute:
In my book all the ones (horn, pearl, celidor, fiber etc.) with exposed rivets are simply :drool:
Victoria Huntsman
Sweet!
Victoria Huntsman:dd: beautiful for sure! :cheers:
VICTORIA Execitive:dd: and another! Very nice. :cheers:
VICTORIA Execitive
Added this older Golfer today.Very nice FB!
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48554703721_9d0b1c1764.jpg)
Added this older Golfer today.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48554703721_9d0b1c1764.jpg)
Added this older Golfer today.
Great find FB! :like: :tu: :tu:Thank you Vicman! :cheers:
Couple of recent finds.:like: :drool: :tu:
Lovely finds FB and VS - Especially that old Golfer - ARMEE SUISSE - YayThank you Huntsman! :hatsoff:
Added this older Golfer today.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48554703721_9d0b1c1764.jpg)
Couple of recent finds.
Be happy to help you clean up your collection if you decide that old ad knife doesn’t fit 😈. 👍👍👍👍👍If a mint-in-box one comes along, you'll have first dibs! It actually arrived just today, it's very nice for its age. :tu:
Added this older Wenger:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48612255887_fd23f7e75b.jpg)
And it's in remarkable shape for its age! I really need to get an older piece in that good a shape myself. Pretty much everything pre-1980s I own looks like heck.Apparently the other side has some marks on the scales, but that didn't stop me from wanting it. It seemed to be in pretty good shape, I agree. :tu:
It looks like Victorinox started using new tools a bit earlier than 1952. What do you think?
I have this one coming, a 1908 version of the Soldier. No date stamp on the back.
I have this one coming, a 1908 version of the Soldier. No date stamp on the back.:like: :tu:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48665272318_5b3eaa36b1.jpg)
So the big question here is "officially" the fish scaler comes out in 1952 with the rest of the big changes to the 91mm line. In actuality, we see the fish scaler come out in several models BEFORE the big 1952 changes and show up in the 1946-1951 Post War era knives. I have several of these and seen many more, and they are always knives from the end of the post war era, so my guess is that they were made late in the era (say 1950-1951) just looking at the tang stamps (always Armee Suisee/VaSS), how the knives are assembled, and how the parts are made.I think that's the strongest argument for it being in your late pwar era. 'Construction details' seem to make a very sharp transition in 91mm knives.
They could have been made early in the early vintage era (1952-1958) from left over parts, but this seems less likely - the post war fish scaler is slightly different in design from the early vintage scaler, so it's not just a case of "hey, let's cram this new fish scaler tool into the old knives".I think if jnoxyd's knife was assembled c. '52 or later that it would likely have aluminum liners and 2.5mm pins on both ends, etc.
I've seen four models from this era - the Angler (like this), Angler Jr (no scissors), Angler Solo (literally just a fish scaler), and Angler Plus (this but adds woodsaw). The latter is, AFAIK, the first 5 layer knife they made. The Angler variant is fairly unusual but shows up the most. The Angler Jr., Angler Solo, and Angler Plus models are very hard to find.. Would be interesting to see these together. I gotta wonder what would be on the box of the solo. Just 'f'? Something different like 70xxf?
That is beautiful FB! :like: :tu: :tu:
:like: :tu:Thank you Vicman and TonySal! :cheers:
I have this one coming, a 1908 version of the Soldier. No date stamp on the back.Very nice :drool:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48665272318_5b3eaa36b1.jpg)
I think if jnoxyd's knife was assembled c. '52 or later that it would likely have aluminum liners and 2.5mm pins on both ends, etc.What I meant was they assembled post 52 with leftover pre-52 parts - so old NS liners, etc. So chronologically the scaler was introduced in 1952, but at first in the old knives as they used up old stock. This is, IMO, a (slightly) possible but (extremely) not plausible theory. Much more likely they introduced the scaler in 1950(ish), and the official timeline from Victorinox is wrong (not for the first time).
I gotta wonder what would be on the box of the solo. Just 'f'? Something different like 70xxf?
Not dissimilar from the "Huntsman with backspring fine screwdriver" they made in the 80s/90s for display purposes.
Mine has the chisel instead of the fine screwdriver. Is that a different model?
Nice! Armee Suisse, Hoffritz or Victoria tang stamp?Thank you JB! It is Victoria tang stamp.
I think :think: this might be my first Pat. Pend. SAK
Added this older Wenger::like: :like: :like:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48612255887_fd23f7e75b.jpg)
Filled another of the remaining holes in the 84mm “accumulation”, all the way from Switzerland. I think I read that the seller is a member of this forum but not sure. Small Climber, long nail file.....so good 😛. :cheers:The long nail file...another SAK that is on my list! Enjoy :like:
Filled another of the remaining holes in the 84mm “accumulation”, all the way from Switzerland. I think I read that the seller is a member of this forum but not sure. Small Climber, long nail file.....so good 😛. :cheers::tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:
Filled another of the remaining holes in the 84mm “accumulation”, all the way from Switzerland. I think I read that the seller is a member of this forum but not sure. Small Climber, long nail file.....so good 😛. :cheers:
No-nick metal file on Motorist. It was mentioned by Jazzbass recently as “short lived prod change” ;)
I like this “tip opening” for metal file.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190911/35021806b50c0a02065f664e4e784a2c.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190911/674ddac1034bbac78188bd0ed8143726.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190911/5e217a13db44a5a89c314bfa95a43531.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190911/3689f5f7a17b64be606cc8379dbc6d78.jpg)
No-nick metal file on Motorist. It was mentioned by Jazzbass recently as “short lived prod change” ;)
I like this “tip opening” for metal file.
One of my latest, I think it is an older Tourist. Victoria on back tang.
One of my latest, I think it is an older Tourist. Victoria on back tang.Very nice :like: :cheers:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48771295891_b84a38cce7.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48770961743_2e47134a86.jpg)
What do you think about blank main blade stamp on 1950s knives? This Huntsman LNF has VSS front side stamp and blank back one. Wood saw has 27 teeth and nail nick.
What do you think about blank main blade stamp on 1950s knives? This Huntsman LNF has VSS front side stamp and blank back one. Wood saw has 27 teeth and nail nick.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191004/9ddb94c7d9ba4b147db77608e4ac5a5d.jpg)
Here's it together with other 1950s knives.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191004/3dfd518921265caa3c6bc42d2ac87a31.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191004/de95edaaf549d8e6f69e42a3780dc571.jpg)
I'm a little confused here. :think: I have seen this stamp on earlier SAKs. The earliest being a fiber-scaled SAK that was shown by Jnoxyd (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,76257.msg1735073.html#msg1735073) in the "Evolution of wood saws" thread (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,76257.0.html). (It's the second from the top in the following two images; more images of it can be seen in the original posts by Jnoxyd (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,76257.msg1735073.html#msg1735073).)What do you think about blank main blade stamp on 1950s knives? This Huntsman LNF has VSS front side stamp and blank back one. Wood saw has 27 teeth and nail nick.
Seems to be a short-lived stamp used either concurrently with the early Armee Suisse models or in a short transition time between the "Armee Suisse/VaSS" stamps and the "VSS/VO" stamps. Definitely the shortest lived and hardest to find of the stamps in this era. I personally think they're a transition stamp as you do see some with the "US PAT PEND" can opener. Dates the knife to the beginning of the early vintage era, say 1953 or so.
The progression of stamps in the early vintage (EVNT) era from 1951-1957 seems to go:Interesting. Can you explain what are the differences between #3 and #4? Thanks!
1. Armee Suisse/Victoria Switzerland Stainless
2. Victoria Switzerland Stainless
3. [Large] Victorinox Switzerland Stainless/Victoria Officier
4. [Small] Victorinox Switzerland Stainless/Victoria Officier
5. Victorinox Switzerland Stainless Rostfrei/Victoria Officier Suisse
Stamps #3 and #4 make of the bulk of the knives from this era. #5 is really the stamp they started using with the mid-vintage hidden rivet knives in 1957/58, with a bit of over lap in both directions.
I'm a little confused here. :think: I have seen this stamp on earlier SAKs.
The earliest being a fiber-scaled SAK that was shown by Jnoxyd (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,76257.msg1735073.html#msg1735073) in the "Evolution of wood saws" thread (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,76257.0.html). (It's the second from the top in the following two images; more images of it can be seen in the original posts by Jnoxyd (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,76257.msg1735073.html#msg1735073).)
It also occurs on SAKs with the crab-claw can opener.
Interesting. Can you explain what are the differences between #3 and #4? Thanks!
For this thread I was really just addressing when it shows up in the early vintage 1951-1957 knives.Thanks for clarifying that.
The fiber scale knife I suspect is a repair using a blade from the late 40s.I was actually hoping for you saying something like that because the wood saw on this knife also looks like one from the end of the PWAR era. It certainly simplifies life to consider it to be a repair job that mixes parts from different periods (something that I also suspected before). On the other hand, the range of years that is assigned to the VaSS stamp in Ulli's table (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50014.60.html#att306974) is 1930-1950, so I can't help wondering if he didn't have a good reason to think that this stamp was used long before the late 1940's.
How about a picture - Large VxSS/VO on top, two versions of the Small VxSS/VO on bottom.Thanks!!! I didn't know that these variations could be used for dating. Now I have some homework. :D
kamakiri :It looks very close to previous and past can openers just a bit less polished:
I am wondering how the machining on your Huntsman's can opener compares to the US.PAT.PEND versions...or any other 'construction' similarities they might have.
It looks very close to previous and past can openers just a bit less polished:(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191005/fca0b8e7fff07c944a308150d3ef1886.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191005/fca0b8e7fff07c944a308150d3ef1886.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191005/11afed8a92b6533a5aee0c24db69cc97.jpg)
I don't have a changeover date stipulated for v2 +PAT stamps but it's on all the '57+ knives I own.
Here is one more SAK with the VaSS/blank stamp. A somewhat unusual Artisan. It has two (anodized) aluminum liners and three nickel-silver liners. Also, the can opener has no stamp.
Nice. I have pretty much that same knife (mixed up liners and everything). Mine has the US PAT PEND can opener.Interesting. I keep wondering if the lack of a stamp on my can opener is a singular production error or that maybe they made some of these can openers without any stamp before they even made them with the US PAT PEND stamp. Since there are US PAT PEND can openers on SAKs with all nickel-silver liners, I tend to believe that a production error is more likely.
Pretty much right at 1957, although there is the typical "random old/new part in a new/old knife" thing going on.Those are some nice SAK, especially that 56...my birth year! :woohoo:
Here's how I look at it. Lots of changes happen in the transition from the early vintage period knives (EVNT: new openers, exposed rivets, 1951-1957) and the mid vintage period (MVNT: large awl, hidden rivets, 1957-1961). The typical EVNT knife from the latter part of the period look like this Huntsman - Small VSS/VO main stamp, large +PAT:
(https://i.imgur.com/uu3zTVb.jpg)
Then we switch to the MVNT period in 1957, where the typical knife from the early part of this period looks like this Huntsman - large awl, hidden rivets, large VSSR/VOS stamp on unpolished tang, and small +PAT.
(https://i.imgur.com/8xE0PGY.jpg)
Statistically speaking, all of these changes seem to happen around the same time because the majority (80%+) of knives from these periods look like these two. However, because this is a production factory and not a mint or anything like that, production overalaps do occur.
This is the first and probably most common one you see - EVNT knife with a typical MVNT main blade stamp. On all the knives I have and have seen in this configuration, the can opener is always a large +PAT:
(https://i.imgur.com/3aX2vzV.jpg)
Next, you do see a fair number of MVNT knives with the small VSS/VO stamped main blades. The majority of this variant (about 75%) also have the large +PAT can opener, like this Master Craftsman:
(https://i.imgur.com/gVxz2J8.jpg)
However, there are a small minority of knives that have the small +PAT in the MVNT knife with the older VSS/VO stamp, like this Climber Small:
(https://i.imgur.com/poQrUJA.jpg)
My assertion has always been that these changed happened more-or-less at the same time, with some of the usual variations at transition time as old parts were used up. All of the MVNT knives above with older main blade/can openers are from very early in the MVNT period judging byt other design factors (the pen blade separator, the saws on the certain models, and the main blade backspring).
Pretty much right at 1957, although there is the typical "random old/new part in a new/old knife" thing going on.Thanks for the response and excellent level of detail and documentation, jazzbass! This is the kind of info that should be in the SAKWiki...or in a book. ;) :tu: :cheers: I'll certainly be referring to it.
Here's how I look at it. Lots of changes happen in the transition from the early vintage period knives (EVNT: new openers, exposed rivets, 1951-1957) and the mid vintage period (MVNT: large awl, hidden rivets, 1957-1961). The typical EVNT knife from the latter part of the period look like this Huntsman - Small VSS/VO main stamp, large +PAT:
(https://i.imgur.com/uu3zTVb.jpg)
Then we switch to the MVNT period in 1957, where the typical knife from the early part of this period looks like this Huntsman - large awl, hidden rivets, large VSSR/VOS stamp on unpolished tang, and small +PAT.
(https://i.imgur.com/8xE0PGY.jpg)
Statistically speaking, all of these changes seem to happen around the same time because the majority (80%+) of knives from these periods look like these two. However, because this is a production factory and not a mint or anything like that, production overalaps do occur.
This is the first and probably most common one you see - EVNT knife with a typical MVNT main blade stamp. On all the knives I have and have seen in this configuration, the can opener is always a large +PAT:
(https://i.imgur.com/3aX2vzV.jpg)
Next, you do see a fair number of MVNT knives with the small VSS/VO stamped main blades. The majority of this variant (about 75%) also have the large +PAT can opener, like this Master Craftsman:
(https://i.imgur.com/gVxz2J8.jpg)
However, there are a small minority of knives that have the small +PAT in the MVNT knife with the older VSS/VO stamp, like this Climber Small:
(https://i.imgur.com/poQrUJA.jpg)
My assertion has always been that these changed happened more-or-less at the same time, with some of the usual variations at transition time as old parts were used up. All of the MVNT knives above with older main blade/can openers are from very early in the MVNT period judging byt other design factors (the pen blade separator, the saws on the certain models, and the main blade backspring).
Here is one more SAK with the VaSS/blank stamp. A somewhat unusual Artisan. It has two (anodized) aluminum liners and three nickel-silver liners. Also, the can opener has no stamp.:like:
Is this one considered large +PAT or small?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48853625161_c037cffabe.jpg)
Interesting. I keep wondering if the lack of a stamp on my can opener is a singular production error or that maybe they made some of these can openers without any stamp before they even made them with the US PAT PEND stamp. Since there are US PAT PEND can openers on SAKs with all nickel-silver liners, I tend to believe that a production error is more likely.
Thanks for the response and excellent level of detail and documentation, jazzbass! This is the kind of info that should be in the SAKWiki...or in a book.....Yes I have been thinking and wondering about this for a while .... ???
- Re the book ...... JB - How's it going ? ! .... :pok: ;)
That mis-stamped cross on the CO is fascinating KK - Never seen that before !!Yeah, stuff I 'had to have' when I saw it. Should have thought about putting it in this thread earlier too.
PS.:oops: Yeah, sorry about that. I know better, and generally dislike clutter and chatter in 'technical' threads.
But having a book would be cooler. Like way cooler.:iagree: My suggestion is to do both. I think a nice coffee table sized hardcover would work well for the book. Might as well 'show off' your examples in nice glossy large print. Website should be able to at least pay for itself with advertising links, if you care about that.
I'd say the explanation was, from most likely to least likely:
1. Production error; the opener never got stamped in production
2. Production defect; the opener was stamped but lightly and the stamping was polished off
3. The can opener was replaced during a repair after 1971.
I think it's probably an error.I guess it is. I think that JB's explanation #3 is unlikely because this can opener doesn't look like it's post-1971. In terms of finish and some other subtle details it is similar to a US PAT PEND can opener. I attach an image that attempts to illustrate this similarity.
Only within the past 6 mos have I been back at it and gathering info for the book.It's really great to have you back. :woohoo:
Or just make the info available via a website? That might be easier. But having a book would be cooler. Like way cooler.I'm thirsty for your knowledge and I'll be happy with whatever way you choose to serve it, but I believe that a website is the better route. The big problem with a book is that it needs to get completed before it can be made available. This can take forever. A website can be put together with only part of the planned content and then evolve. It can keep changing and expanding along with the progress of your research as well as due to feedback from others. It will also be accessed by a much larger population.
I guess it is. I think that JB's explanation #3 is unlikely because this can opener doesn't look like it's post-1971. In terms of finish and some other subtle details it is similar to a US PAT PEND can opener. I attach an image that attempts to illustrate this similarity.
Only within the past 6 mos have I been back at it and gathering info for the book.
Filled another of the remaining holes in the 84mm “accumulation”, all the way from Switzerland. I think I read that the seller is a member of this forum but not sure. Small Climber, long nail file.....so good 😛. :cheers:
Its an excellent question. I stepped away from collecting after some bad/frustrating experiences and being slammed at work. Only within the past 6 mos have I been back at it and gathering info for the book. The biggest challenge with this project is data gathering and organization. I was unhappy with the old database I had so I designed a new one and me and another developer are putting a UI on it to make it useful for information/collection info gathering. That should be done soon.
Then - enter all the info, sort it, and write it up. Or just make the info available via a website? That might be easier. But having a book would be cooler. Like way cooler.
I want a signed copy:like: :iagree: +1
:popcorn:
Can anyone remind me what the first digits 7 and 8 mean in the model numbers please?I can :D
There really isn't a logical system with these either - for example the Motorist was a 8134ma, the Picknicker was a 8237aU, but the Handwerkermesser was a 7236maU. Why the "7" instead of "8"? All knives were "special" models, all were originally Elinox models, etc. But one started with 7 and the other 8.
GigaHz sold a nice one:Thats a nice score! :like: :cheers:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/X24AAOSwJ8JdWaEb/s-l1600.jpg)
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/q0MAAOSwiG1dWaEq/s-l1600.jpg)
Has main blade and a combo tool:
So a Bantam? Looks super cool.Yes, a Bantam, but I think the box is for a Pioneer.
I found this in one of ColoSwiss' cases: I think the wrong knife is in this box. :think: :dunno:
It was in a case of the latest items he had purchased and didn't put into his spreadsheet yet.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48981716233_c544551702.jpg)
Has main blade and a combo tool:
Here are pics of some these knives with numbers on the boxes. Pics are provided SAK collector Haoran Yang from China.
What other 7..., 8... or 5... knives with boxes do you have?
GigaHz sold a nice one:
I have one ;) It is not so cool as M0rkoni’s one above but has nice inlay
It's a nice one still... :tu:It seems to me I saw mod.237 (Camper now) on eBay some years ago, hope somebody here got it.
But I'm starting to wondering is there any other celidor model with Fischer tang stamp except this one? :think:
It's a nice one still... :tu:
But I'm starting to wondering is there any other celidor model with Fischer tang stamp except this one? :think:
It's a nice one still... :tu:
But I'm starting to wondering is there any other celidor model with Fischer tang stamp except this one? :think:
I've always wanted to post here! I've had this beauty for awhile, but life has been crazy. Folder Beholder found this one for me, and I pounced upon it :DA great find on any BYSAK :cheers:
:iagree: Very nice :cheers:Beautiful!
This topic almost have been forgotten so just not to be - a nice well preserved pearl one with exposed rivets...
...yet another one with exposed rivets and scissors but with horn scales and wide long nail file.Another cool vintage knife! :like: I have later version in red cellidor.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200104/857228730eebee0cd06e44b1116b8a87.jpg)
...yet another one with exposed rivets and scissors but with horn scales and wide long nail file.Oh boy, that is a nice one! I like those sissors with the nail nick? by the screw. And the long nail file! :like: :cheers:
I have later version in red cellidor.
Another cool vintage knife! :like: I have later version in red cellidor.(http://)
()
Oh boy, that is a nice one! I like those sissors with the nail nick? by the screw. And the long nail file! :like: :cheers:
My vintage SAK collection so far....First one is very special. Threefaces wenger officer's knife. If someone have something similar, please post pictures :cheers:
Handyman 7236 maU, early- mid 1960s.
Remind me please when they changed large Elinox stamp for a bit smaller one
Handyman 7236 maU, early- mid 1960s.Sweet :like: :cheers:
Remind me please when they changed large Elinox stamp for a bit smaller one
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200116/b1b5bf97dad2c83bbb5a72b425003b80.jpg)
Sweet :like: :cheers:60's good one!!
Great knife. I think the stamp change happens late 1964 (ish - you know how these things are). It happens before the change to symmetric saw teeth, as there are lots of Elinox knives with the small Elinox stamp and asymetric saws, and I have the saw change dated c. 1965.Thanks for the answer, Jazzbass. Metal file has nail nick.
Does the metal file in this knife have a nail nick or no?
Just to illustrate what was said by Jazzbass above
Just to illustrate what was said by Jazzbass aboveOh boy :drool: :cheers:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200117/761ff63c6520b62e1ab990d109efb31a.jpg)
Just to illustrate what was said by Jazzbass above
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200117/761ff63c6520b62e1ab990d109efb31a.jpg)
You guys JB, JNOX - and all the vintage collectors are ......... A-M-A-ZING
Your knowledge, your collections, your pics ...... FAN-TAST-IC
Thanks so much for sharing all this
Handyman 7236 maU, early- mid 1960s.
Remind me please when they changed large Elinox stamp for a bit smaller one
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200116/b1b5bf97dad2c83bbb5a72b425003b80.jpg)
An old soldier :salute:
An old soldier :salute:A 1933 - :drool:
A 1933 - :drool:
I like that sheath - is it after market :cheers:
Nice one :2tu:Thank you :cheers:
Thank you :cheers::tu: :tu:
Good post don't sink :climber:
I wonder how the bail was removed?
I’m thinking it was filed off. Looks like file marks near the blue arrow.
Thank you @Jnoxyd @VICMAN,I wonder how the bail was removed?
They made both variants: with and without bail
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200306/617bcd8db02db5f60e5729e9bdcbaa43.jpg)
I’m agree with Kamakiri, the rest of broken bail was accurate filed off (or just somebody didn’t like bails)
Probably it was like this one
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200306/f0075c903c1bc4802754402dceebaf20.jpg)
Why do you think there was a bail in the first place - Didn't they make them with or without bails? ???
Maybe this was one without :think:
I'll try and see if I can turn it,If it turns, it must be bail.It can be riveted a little after filing so can be no turn. It is definitely rest of bail.
They made both variants: with and without bail
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200306/617bcd8db02db5f60e5729e9bdcbaa43.jpg)
I’m agree with Kamakiri, the rest of broken bail was accurate filed off (or just somebody didn’t like bails)
Probably it was like this one
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200306/f0075c903c1bc4802754402dceebaf20.jpg)
Handyman 7236 maU, early- mid 1960s.
Remind me please when they changed large Elinox stamp for a bit smaller one
Just to illustrate what was said by Jazzbass above(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200117/761ff63c6520b62e1ab990d109efb31a.jpg)
Why do you think there was a bail in the first place - Didn't they make them with or without bails? ???
Maybe this was one without :think:
Ahhh - I've got it - Thanks lads
If it were bail-less - It would not have had the ring/'bushing' around the rivet head
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200117/761ff63c6520b62e1ab990d109efb31a.jpg)Good knowledge kamakiri !I also found a small e Handyman :climber:
I think my point is better made with pictures. Without getting into all the details it is tougher to explain. But here%u2019s some that show how close the last big Elinox stamp is to the main line 29TAM production, tang polishing, VSSR stamp transition to keyrings and 29TSM transition.
.
One more 84mm Super Tinker LNF , now with bail - 145kaU . It is not good condition, even LNF is broken off but I'd like to show these knives here because they are hard to find and only few were shown ( Jazzbass called 145k "one of the rarest post WW2 84mm knives" )yes interesting, I learn a lot from youz guys
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200325/28edcf561731cba1118c766ef826ed97.jpg)
I’ve seen the large Elinox with both aluminum and nickel silver bird head spacers, and they certainly are produced into the range of asymmetrical machined (main line) knives, which I estimate production covering/through ‘65. Maybe ending then or in ‘66. I estimate my latest large Elinox copy to be c. ‘65+. It’s also a Handyman like yours.
Finally found the ‘backup’ proof for my ‘65+ estimate for the big Elinox tang stamp. And I still believe mine to be a bit later than this ‘65 inlay dated sample based on the surface finish. It’s from Ulli’s dated advertising knife thread.Congrats! I like these dated knives :clap:
Congrats! I like these dated knives :clap::cheers:
Nice picture! Can you tell us about these Elsener Rapperswil knives? Who made these two shown in Victorinox's catalog? Elsener from Schwyz, another knife maker Elsener from Rapperswil or it is collaboration knives? Thank you!Difficult to describe... I would say it is/was a collaboration. The knifemaker shop still exists, located in Rapperswil (1 mile from Rüti). Victorinox never did grillon scales as far as I know. So I think Elsener Rapperswil (relative of Karl Elsener, Schwyz), got the tools from Ibach (always carbon steel!), assembled the knives and sold them at his store, stamped with "Elsener Rapperswil". So what is it? A victorinox or not?
...from the category "copy a catalog page"... not perfect, but almost.
Off course Tony. :tu: Just read my first post here in this topic, please...:salute: :tu: :cheers:
Where are some good places to look for/shop for specific vintage SAKS besides the big bay on the web? (I know about the listings on this forum in the Tools Needed section). I just don't see much showing up on the bay. Thanks!
Maybe you mean these guys - I think they are French
https://www.couteaux-du-soldat-suisse.ch/J01/index.php/en/
I think one of them is a member here and I think they are linked to LCSAS
Get some beautiful 75 / 84mm Victorinox with horn handles. From the old days when almost everything was still done by hand. Corkscrews are really rare in this size.Nice set!
(https://up.picr.de/38889799nr.jpeg)
(https://up.picr.de/38889798fn.jpeg)
(https://up.picr.de/38889796br.jpeg)
Nice set!:iagree: :tu:
Get some beautiful 75 / 84mm Victorinox with horn handles. From the old days when almost everything was still done by hand. Corkscrews are really rare in this size.Impressive group! I really like those 75mm.
(https://up.picr.de/38889799nr.jpeg)
(https://up.picr.de/38889798fn.jpeg)
(https://up.picr.de/38889796br.jpeg)
jnoxyd, what about 84-mm models like Tourist, Recruit, Bantam I, Bantam II? (I don't know their digital ID's..)I don't have these knives or it's pics, do you?
Are you requiring both tangs and scale shields?I'd like to see first what you have with Elinox stamp and then with ESSR stamp. The main question is why didn't they make a wide enough line of cheap Elinox knives in 1950s-1960s?
I have variants (mostly 91mm, of course) that have either tang Elinox or ESSR or ‘federal’ scale shield. At least ones before the broad change to Economy tangs.
I don't have these knives or it's pics, do you?Yes, I have few.
I'd like to see first what you have with Elinox stamp and then with ESSR stamp. The main question is why didn't they make a wide enough line of cheap Elinox knives in 1950s-1960s?
Not sure about the exact age of all (if they are all pre 70s) but here are a few from some older pictures.
Elinox pruner, INOXYD marked Tahara model, ribbed alox and 2 older soldier style ones.
I am sure I have better photographs somewhere, or I could photograph them again, but you get the idea.
I have a stupid question, and thought that place was quite right to post it...sorry :angel:Good question. Yes, of course ;). Different numbers of saw teeth, awl/Phillips/ Corkscrew position, scissors handles shape, cap lifter length etc. Just put 84mm and 91mm together and check differences ;)
- Is there any sure trick/tip to recognize an 84 mm of a 91 mm, when surfing on various auction sites, where there are only pictures and not given measurements by the seller ?
Good question. Yes, of course ;). Different numbers of saw teeth, awl/Phillips/ Corkscrew position, scissors handles shape, cap lifter length etc. Just put 84mm and 91mm together and check differences ;)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200822/5baa907433d864fb5fdba52ac4e8223d.jpg)
84mm awls are closer to emblem, you can easy see the difference (if awl is open of course)
Really good tip indeed, thanksThanks! Glad to help you.
BTW, really nice knives ;)
Just thought I'd pop in and say hi. Here's my wife's 65-68 Master Craftsman
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,85353.0.html
https://imgur.com/a/JdaZBms
(https://i.imgur.com/duFFcDP.jpg)
She had been keeping it (it's her dad's) in a box for a long time because it had gotten too hard to open.
I gave it a iso bath, dried it out, cleaned it with a q-tip and then oiled it up with some hair trimmer blade lube and worked it clean.
it's in pretty good nick. Her dad kept it razor sharp. Now she can finally open it and use it.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200822/5baa907433d864fb5fdba52ac4e8223d.jpg)
84mm awls are closer to emblem, you can easy see the difference (if awl is open of course)
Great info and pic jnox .......... or if it has exposed rivets!!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200824/498d4af7e95ba305a71aeefd1adab1fb.jpg)
Another great pic ......Yes, you are right ;)
So are those all 91mms? ........ As the awl to logo gap is larger?
sure thing - https://imgur.com/a/tqXgXDa
I'd like to see first what you have with Elinox stamp and then with ESSR stamp. The main question is why didn't they make a wide enough line of cheap Elinox knives in 1950s-1960s?
Unrelated, but looking through some 84mm boxes, I did find the ‘63 SAC knife with the conical awl...
The main question is why didn't they make a wide enough line of cheap Elinox knives in 1950s-1960s?
Thanks Kamakiri for the answer!
Indeed, I also do not see much sense in producing a cheap line using 50x-60x technologies. Scissors in the Elinox series look terrible without usual manual polishing, non-oxidized liners have cracks (to be honest, even in the main series they are a problem), the absence of a file on the phillips hardly gives a strong price reduction, etc. Interestingly, they did not abandon the idea of inexpensive series and released the Economy line without obvious degradation (hot stamping instead of a metal emblem, no tools in the scales, a corkscrew without a groove, what else?).
And yes, Huntsman Economy exists ;). What other 3-4 lines Economy knives do you have?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200830/4d33c1beb990377b72880a9bf8475484.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200830/d5c2db6b39d4ecbb1a7df44e7f3daebd.jpg)
Was busy taking this apart last night. Gotta love 70+ year old grime!What was a reason? Every parts look good
.
What was a reason? Every parts look good
Yes it was worth doing. Hope you are going to use nickel silver rods for rivets
Great plan! Let us see what happens, please.
Kamakiri, looking forward to seeing how this project goes! :salute:
---------------------------------------------------------
- Victorinox 234 Bgl. (Spartan).
I suppose it's from late 40's early 50's...
(https://i50.servimg.com/u/f50/19/13/23/70/vic23410.jpg)
(https://i50.servimg.com/u/f50/19/13/23/70/vic23411.jpg)
(https://i50.servimg.com/u/f50/19/13/23/70/vic23412.jpg)
(https://i50.servimg.com/u/f50/19/13/23/70/vic23414.jpg)
(https://i50.servimg.com/u/f50/19/13/23/70/vic23413.jpg)
---------------------------------------------------------
Looks good
Thanks jnoxyd. :cheers:The main problem for me is getting proper length after hammering the ends of rod
Just hoping I don’t make any big mistakes as there’s a lot of time into it already.
The main problem for me is getting proper length after hammering the ends of rod
You are right, 2.0mm rods fit better for both bail versions (pre and post 1957). What is the problem with them? Here’s post 1957 version hand made bail together with original one (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200912/fe89472e7a52988da2ded9272a688312.jpg)
I was already intent on trying again with 2mm...as I’m sure that’s the way they were originally fabricated in forming dies. I just haven’t been able to move enough material the right way.How do you make loop hole ? I use conical awl instead of drill for keeping enough metal for loop.
Nice additions!
Looks more on the ‘40s side to me. Tang stamps, scale details, shackle style, etc.
How do you make loop hole ? I use conical awl instead of drill for keeping enough metal for loop.
Thank you Kamakiri for these precisions :tu:
Wow - they look great! :like: :like:
Almost done. Pretty happy with it considering the original condition. Achieved the goal of looking ‘less abused’ as well as the replacement shackle.
Tools still need some work and I’ll probably include it in EDC rotation when it’s done.
:like: :cheers: :salute:
nice...I have a similar Pradel in green, it was old when I was a kid- now 65 so it must be 100 lol...wish it were a SAK!!
Those are still cool...especially that old! Isn’t there a SAK-alike thread? Have you posted it there?Hey thanks! Ill have to look....
Just added a model 247:Ohhh, nice! Still looking for it ...
Ohhh, nice! Still looking for it ...Thank you jnoxyd, but for some reason I thought you had one already. :think:
I have old version from 1940sYes, there it is! :cheers:
Yes, there it is! :cheers:It is in front of the main blade and has nail nick available from the front knife side. Later versions have nail nick on the back side.
Does your can opener close in front of the main blade or behind it?
It is in front of the main blade and has nail nick available from the front knife side. Later versions have nail nick on the back side.Thank you, that is what I have too. :hatsoff:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201016/29c9250db87c2beab0eb961229039dc1.jpg)
Just added a model 247:
Very nice FB! :like: :tu: :tu:Thank you Vicman! :cheers:
Just added a model 247:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50494822236_3628652d43.jpg)
Shame on me, you are right )))
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201016/c62d9fcc72603ce69ca78871df2d6ee7.jpg)
I have old version from 1940s and thought you shown later 1950s-1960s version.
Here’s it on Jazzbass’s pic:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201016/b427ff709a9af0f9fa410839cad8e7b8.jpg)
So these would be difficult to ‘fake’...:like:
Take a look at this interesting knife. I looked for it for a long time everywhere in the world until my friend, 13 km away, pulled it out of his box with various knives airport confiscated he keeps for many yearsCool find! :tu: A NIB Picnicker with this stamp was shown (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51152.msg1454394.html#msg1454394) earlier in this thread by FolderBeholder and then JazzBass pointed out (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,51152.msg1454415.html#msg1454415) that it occurs on both Picnickers and Outdoorsmans from the mid-1970's.
So what do you think? I believe it is Victorinox made knife but what was the reason for this strange blade stamp?It's certainly a Victorinox made knife with a known Victorinox stamp that appears in Ulli's table (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50014.60.html#att306974), however, as discussed (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50014.msg2172562.html#msg2172562) in the Tang Stamps thread, details in the table suggest that this stamp mainly occurs on the back side of the blades of floral knives. So why do we find it by itself on economy officer knives? I can only guess. Maybe at some point they weren't sure if they want to proceed with the Elinox name and how to brand their economy SAKs, so they just used this brandless stamp for a while. Another possibility is that (for officer knives) this is what Ulli called (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50014.msg2106602.html#msg2106602) a "Monday stamp" (although the fact that we find this stamp on both serrated and normal blades is a bit challenging to this theory).
The cool part of these knives IMO, is that the crink of the main blade goes the other way.
Do you think they later decided it would be cheaper to alter the can opener (mirrored, nail nick on the other side) and use "regular" blades? The one I have has a regular blade.
Also, I can only find a reference to the 84mm model (247 k) but it seems to make sense that the 91mm model was in fact model no. 247.
Thanks for the comment MiniChamp. Yes, I like "Monday stamp" version better, just tried to find good picture of this stamp on Elinox gardeners to be sure it is technically same puncheon/stamp they keep and can use it accidentally wrong. They looks same to me:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201029/785cc1f34c8b85646ddc1d48e340016b.jpg)
I can only find a reference to the 84mm model (247 k) but it seems to make sense that the 91mm model was in fact model no. 247.??? The 91mm model 247 appears in the 1942 catalog (https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=112):
OK sorry, I don't know how I missed that :think:
What's up with the pin locations on that 248 and 248 k (second pic) by the way? Was the middle pin actually located so far up?
Customized. As in: abused and broken...:tu:
Nice technician's screwdriver though!
Another knife without Victorinox or Elinox in the stamp exists but it has Hoffritz stamp at least ;)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201023/1eee1cd675eb7c5e02d62400c3a17e7b.jpg)
So like the late ‘70s/early ‘80s Hoffritz H/SSR, I believe that Victorinox was very willing to exclude their name.
Hello to all vintage saks gurus, I have a little questionI’m no guru, but I do know what that particular knife is supposed to look like:
Is this cap-lifter genuine or customized, as I can't find it in the catalogs ? :angel: ???
(https://i50.servimg.com/u/f50/19/13/23/70/tealea10.jpg)
I wonder: Is there a more accurate estimate for when Hoffritz used this combination of stamps that excluded any reference to the Victorinox brand? Also, did they use it exclusively for some period of time or along side stamps that did contain Victorinox branding? What I'm really asking is this: Is there any indication that Victorinox branding was removed from Hoffritz SAKs at some concrete point in time and then later restored at another concrete point in time? If so, when?I didn’t see any information about time range but here are two Hoffritz from eBay (sorry for bad pics). Both have 1983-1985 awl but different blade stamps. So probably Hoffritz knives without Victorinox branding produced since at least late 1970s till mid 1980s. No idea why they did it.
I didn’t see any information about time range but here are two Hoffritz from eBay (sorry for bad pics). Both have 1983-1985 awl but different blade stamps. So probably Hoffritz knives without Victorinox branding produced since at least late 1970s till mid 1980s. No idea why they did it.Many thanks for the info and pics. One of the reasons that I find this interesting is because of the potential connection with the how and when the company that was called Forschner for most of its life (and changed its name to "Swiss Army Brands, Inc." (SABI) in the mid-1990's) became the exclusive North American distributor of Victorinox. There is something a bit strange with this piece of history. The attached document contains the first part of the last annual financial report that SABI submitted as a publicly traded company (before being completely bought by Victorinox in 2002). It has a lot of information about the history of the company. In particular, the emphasized portion on the 3rd page claims that SABI has been the exclusive Victorinox US distributor since 1972. However, the emphasized portion on the 7th page states that the agreement securing this exclusivity is from December 12, 1983. There are no typos here. In some earlier SEC filings (see, e.g., https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/731947/0000731947-97-000002.txt) SABI used the following formulation: "The Company has been marketing Victorinox Original Swiss Army Knives and Victorinox cutlery for over fifty years and has been the exclusive United States distributor of such products since 1972, an arrangement that was formalized in 1983." So... they were exclusive since 1972 but this was "formalized" only 11 years later in 1983 (after SABI became a publicly traded company and Charles Elsener bought a piece of it in 1981). ??? Meanwhile, we know that during these 11 years Hoffritz sold quite a few Hoffritz-branded Victorinox SAKs (using names and catalog numbers that were independent from those used by SABI). It seems unlikely that these Hoffrits SAKs were imported by SABI, so... Is it possible that the removal of the Victorinox brand name from Hoffritz SAKs enabled Victorinox to sell them directly to Hoffritz without breaking the supposed status of SABI as the exclusive US Victorinox distributor?
I didn’t see any information about time range but here are two Hoffritz from eBay (sorry for bad pics). Both have 1983-1985 awl but different blade stamps. So probably Hoffritz knives without Victorinox branding produced since at least late 1970s till mid 1980s. No idea why they did it.
Hoffritz only stamp
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201110/69e18ed16a15db86b5f3235deb612418.jpg)
OS stamp (hope scales haven’t been replaced)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201110/a411d678d173a951b342b2f49552bda5.jpg)
Awls:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201110/0c53aceb590030314e92ec5438642216.jpg)
Yes, we need more knives for statistic. What Hoffritz do you have, guys?
Anybody think statements like these are relevant to the issue?...was from 1987 Victorinox (Swiss printed) brochure, so about the right time? :dunno:
I think so. And I suspect this was from close to the start of that period of ‘Victorinox’ being absent from the Hoffritz tangs.
...was from 1987 Victorinox (Swiss printed) brochure, so about the right time? :dunno:
Approximately 24 years of 136ka - Craftsman SAKSWOW! What a nice set! :like:
WOW! What a nice set! :like:
:cheers: Thanks jnoxyd! But unfortunately still at least three particular variants that I want but do not have, and two in there that I would really like better copies of.Are you collecting the Small Craftsman and the Master Craftsman too?
:cheers: Thanks jnoxyd! But unfortunately still at least three particular variants that I want but do not have, and two in there that I would really like better copies of.What variants are you looking for?
Are you collecting the Small Craftsman and the Master Craftsman too?
What variants are you looking for?
Approximately 24 years of 136ka - Craftsman SAKS
Nice Craftsman collection kamakiri! :like: :tu: :tu:
I just won my first old Victorinox. Stamped Elsener over Zug. Can anyone date that stamp? I do have pics from the seller. Is it appropriate to post those up here?
I just won this one. Can someone tell me the model name? Bartender comes to my mind first. I’m hoping I did ok on it. I believe the writing is a trucking company. When I did a search I saw early trucks with the name on it.
Pretty much anything that’s 136xx. 84mm 91mm...kinda doesn’t matter.I have no 25TAP version too, they are really hard to find to my regret but I have this nice Craftsman with usual saw and not very common scales ;)
The main one is the ‘25TAP’ version. ....
What is 25TAP?You are right, 25 teeth (84mm) asymmetric polished wood saw variant
I'm thinking 25 tooth something? :think: :dunno:
You are right, 25 teeth (84mm) asymmetric polished wood saw variantThank you! :hatsoff:
I have no 25TAP version too, they are really hard to find to my regret but I have this nice Craftsman with usual saw and not very common scales ;)
VOs/vssr, black double leaf spring
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201116/cbebfbce821b5a32bb0d4a148ee44bff.jpg)
What is 25TAP?
I'm thinking 25 tooth something? :think: :dunno:
My Golfer (top w/ 35TAM) with a 236k HReally nice two!
.
Nice pic of Golfer Original! Where is it from?
Really nice two!
I also suspect FB might have a nicer one tucked away, because I think I saw that coloswiss had one. :dunno:If you can give me its name and tools it has, I can locate it.
If you can give me its name and tools it has, I can locate it.
It seems you're talking about Golfers but they don't have a wood saw from what I recall, so I'm confused. :think:
Found the post where I learned about it from Karl. Looks like I might be wrong about him having one, though. He had info from the catalog scan.I looked at the post and since it is from 2012, Karl added a lot of knives to his collection since that date.
Here (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,40654.msg650701.html#_) in a thread titled ‘Artisan’ which is probably how I found the thread long ago.
I looked at the post and since it is from 2012, Karl added a lot of knives to his collection since that date.
Also, I may have one in my personal collection.
Which tools are you looking for in the knife? Is it 4-layer? Again, curious if I have one.
Yes 4 layer. Curious if you do too!I have at least 4 of the 4-layer 84mm knives. Just not sure if I have what you're wondering about.
Like jnoxyd’s knife:Would this be one?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201116/cbebfbce821b5a32bb0d4a148ee44bff.jpg)
Similar to the early 136ka Craftsman, but with horn scales.
Would this be one?
What scissors spring it has?It has a single dark colored spring:
Beautiful SAK FB! :like: :tu: :tu:Thank you Vicman! :cheers:
Would this be one?
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50612830798_82cd1284ba.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50613686867_7920e8c97c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50612830838_f337edba54.jpg)
Looks great! :tu: Glad you found it! Was it one of coloswiss’ ?Thank you, yes, it was one of ColoSwiss' and you're right it is +PAT on the can opener.
And is it +PAT on the can opener? I’m guessing yours is between mine and jnoxyd’s.
Thank you, yes, it was one of ColoSwiss' and you're right it is +PAT on the can opener.
I’ve had this Soldier new since 1997. If I remember right it retailed for $17.00.
Sterg- nice knife and we love alox soldiers, but this thread is for older knives. Originally up to the early ‘70s, and has crept a bit up since the thread is pretty old.Ok np. I thought I saw something about that somewhere. :facepalm: If things proceed as planned I’ll have some to post here.
There are lots of threads for alox or your original knives. I think of this one for alox:
https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,53842.11430.html (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,53842.11430.html)
Threads are also listed in the club sticky. And there’s also one for ‘old cross’ knives. Lots to see!
Hope that helps! I’d just want you to show off in the places it’ll be noticed. :cheers:
Ok np. I thought I saw something about that somewhere. :facepalm: If things proceed as planned I’ll have some to post here.
I had the chance to view some vintage SAKs yesterday. Need some help identifying these two. I think one is a 75mm Accountant with MOP scales. Must be an early example. :dunno:
But I’m stumped on the other. Looks like a Pocket Pal with scissors? I did not measure it at the time unfortunately. ???
That model 74 is basically the one I just sold on eBay, minus the LNF:
(https://vicfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/victorinox-victoria-75acr-accountant-with-lnf-front-800x600.jpg)
https://vicfan.com/2020/11/victorinox-victoria-accountant-with-long-nail-file/
That model 74 is basically the one I just sold on eBay, minus the LNF:
(https://vicfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/victorinox-victoria-75acr-accountant-with-lnf-front-800x600.jpg)
https://vicfan.com/2020/11/victorinox-victoria-accountant-with-long-nail-file/
I was eyeballing this one...and a couple of others...but too many knives showed up that week that were higher up on ‘the list’. :(Me too and I wanted it very much, but at the last minute I thought it would go skyrocket in price so I didn't bid. :facepalm:
Me too and I wanted it very much, but at the last minute I thought it would go skyrocket in price so I didn't bid. :facepalm:
In the end it didn't go that high though :)I know and I will always consider that one the one that got away. :facepalm: :oops:
In the end it didn't go that high though :)
:tu: :tu:
I was waiting for that one :P
(that's also what she said)
In the end it didn't go that high though :)Yeah, because FB and I weren’t fighting for it!
I know and I will always consider that one the one that got away. :facepalm: :oops:
Yeah, because FB and I weren’t fighting for it!Truth! :D
Nice reading! Thanks a lot MiniChamp. This document mentions another interesting Victorinox partner: Bear Cutlery MGC. We all know this intriguing story of the purchase and subsequent sale of this company by Victorinox. What do you think, how independent was the development of the innovative SwissTool for Victorinox?It was not Victorinox that purchased Bear MGC Cutlery in 1999 (as often reported), but Swiss Army Brands, Inc. ("SABI"). Bear had an established multi-tool and knife manufacturing, retail and OE supplier business at the time, with over 50 models, which is what SABI was most likely interested in. Victorinox had the benefit of assessing many of the early MTs when developing their SwissTool, so it's not surprising that some common design features are seen across brands. Victorinox just enhanced and refined what was in the market at the time to a level that even 20+ years on, is still a competitive product. SABI sold Bear back to one of the original owners of Bear, Ken Griffey, in 2004.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201110/db54248c981016e66082792f8e78219e.jpg)
It was not Victorinox that purchased Bear MGC Cutlery in 1999 (as often reported), but Swiss Army Brands, Inc. ("SABI").True, but at that time SABI itself was in the process being purchased by Victorinox (Victorinox owned more than 35% of SABI at the time of the Bear purchase and that ownership portion quickly grew until SABI became wholly-owned by Victorinox in the summer of 2002).
Bear had an established multi-tool and knife manufacturing, retail and OE supplier business at the time, with over 50 models, which is what SABI was most likely interested in.They may have been more interested in their patents, particularly, the US5697114 patent. (https://patents.google.com/patent/US5697114A) (Victorinox couldn't sell the SwissTool without a license to this patent.)
True, but at that time SABI itself was in the process being purchased by Victorinox (Victorinox owned more than 35% of SABI at the time of the Bear purchase and that ownership portion quickly grew until SABI became wholly-owned by Victorinox in the summer of 2002).They may have been more interested in their patents, particularly, the US5697114 patent. (https://patents.google.com/patent/US5697114A) (Victorinox couldn't sell the SwissTool without a license to this patent.)Probably a consideration in the purchase, but $7m was not small change at the time, about 14% of their entire Victorinox/Bear revenue in 1999.
the one that got away.
:think: Which of you bought this fine specimen of a ‘pwar’ 235faU today?Wasn't me, but I bet someone would be able to clean it up nicely. What price did it go for?
Even I had a tough time seeing the parts value. :dunno:
I just missed out on a MoP Champion with old triangular awl. First one I've ever seen for sale and it has been on my wanted list since August 2010 :cry:
Wasn't me, but I bet someone would be able to clean it up nicely. What price did it go for?Under $30 with shipping. Not quite sure what would be really salvageable there. Scissors and the scaler are probably most of the value. But almost everything else looked pretty abused or missing. Even though the ends weren’t clearly shown, the ‘squareness’ of the scales mean the liners are probably smashed and smurfed a lot. :dunno:
I just missed out on a MoP Champion with old triangular awl. First one I've ever seen for sale and it has been on my wanted list since August 2010 :cry:
Any Hoffritz lovers ? Nice but pricey (not mine to my regret ;) )
https://www.ebay.com/itm/c-1973-VTG-Victorinox-HOFFRITZ-Earliest-CHAMPION-C-Swiss-Army-Knife-NEW-IN-BOX-/254674039171?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
I might know what they bought it for. ;)OMG yes just a bit expensive! Lolol
And I know 100% it’s not ‘73 or really even c.’73.
I have a similar one produced after this one that is c.’77. Small clip points were used in more places and ways than most understand.
OMG yes just a bit expensive! Lolol
According to Ulli's tang stamp guide the main blade stamp should be 1943-1951 but the cap lifter says 1891-1935.??? Like many other things, Ulli's table works much better when you use the latest version. (https://forum.multitool.org/index.php/topic,50014.60.html#att306974)
No need to be grumpy I think?I didn't realize that my response sounded grumpy. It was not my intention. Sorry.
I didn't realize that my response sounded grumpy. It was not my intention. Sorry.
Hi Folks
Just caught up on the last four pages of this thread - Amazing discussions and knowledge as always :salute:
Particularly interested in all the discussions around Bear, Hoffritz, SABI, Forschner and the US Vic imports etc
And of course all the old SAKs goes without saying!!
The Chief moderators and Grant prefer us never to alter any previously posted content - And certainly not without the permission of the OP.
With that said - MiniChamp's suggestion is a very sensible proposition.
So I could add the latest Ulli TS image to the very first post in his thread - with his permission - Shall I ask him? (I did that for my dating spreadsheet recently)
Max if you want I could also add it to your first post in the Tang Stamp project - Let me know
:cheers:
Thanks Ulli for your comment/feedback. I hope that by adding your most recent table to these threads and to the updated Wiki tang page, we can steer people to this version. I do believe (and have stated before) that the Wiki tang page should follow the general format and content of the rest of the Wiki, which has a bias towards more recent models. Winding the clock back before 1950 becomes a lot more challenging for content and data, and almost deserves its own Vintage section that would require a lot of work. I think that threads like this one are of more value for those with an interest in vintage SAKs and willing to share/discuss information. :salute:
MT is a really good place to bring people together, to share the knowledge, but I m not sure if its the perfect place for content based on facts and evidence. I m not sure if you know what I mean. Its a platform for discussions, for sharing. My intention with the tang stamp sheet was not to bring a perfect product that is 100% correct, because almost every day I see and learn something new. And thats the way I like it, to create something as a base for discussions. Thats very common in science. If you buy today a book in biology, in 5 years its worth nothing, because its already too old, not accurate, because now in 2020 people know much more than in 2015. But the problem with online content like here on MT is, that you cant replace old content with new content. So I see old tang stamp sheets everywhere, on online auctions, on homepages, most time with a claim that its 100% correct.
Like the “1973” Hoffritz Champion for sale above which is actually c.’76.Why do you think that it's c.’76? It seems to have a 2.7mm Victoria-era spring/corkscrew/main-blade-shank combination. I don't recall encountering before any claims that such SAKs were produced after 1974.
:cheers: kamakiri, and the Wiki will continue to be developed to be a valuable resource :salute:
And I saw what you did, good signature :D
Why do you think that it's c.’76?I know it’s c.’76. There are perhaps a dozen things that confirm it. The seller’s pictures are very good, and it’s very easy to see what I need to see.
It seems to have a 2.7mm Victoria-era spring/corkscrew/main-blade-shank combination.
I don't recall encountering before any claims that such SAKs were produced after 1974.
I know it’s c.’76. There are perhaps a dozen things that confirm it. The seller’s pictures are very good, and it’s very easy to see what I need to see.You are not really answering the question. Clearly, if you think that this SAK is c.’76, it's because of some "things" that you see in the pictures. The question is: What are those mysterious things?
Are you 100% certain about that?I'm never 100% certain about anything, but I do believe that the attached image shows a 2.7mm Victoria-era spring. If I'm wrong, then surely you have an appropriate post-Victoria-era SAK with a 2.4mm spring that looks like this one. Can you show images of such a SAK?
Well, now you have.Well, now you got me confused. Are you claiming that I'm wrong about this particular SAK having a 2.7mm Victoria-era spring or that SAKs with such springs were produced at least until 1976 (or both)?
I’ll eventually get to the proof in the “dating in the ‘70s” series, assuming I don’t croak before then.I'll be extremely happy if you will ever start providing some sort of evidence to support your claims. Until then I tend to consider them as being quite questionable.
You are not really answering the question.Yeah, that’s intentional. Incorrect suppositions are difficult to answer.
Clearly, if you think that this SAK is c.’76, it's because of some "things" that you see in the pictures. The question is: What are those mysterious things?Going through all the pics, I counted 19. But you only really need the one to prove the point. And two are the most relevant parts to this discussion. Both are visible in the crop you posted.
I'm never 100% certain about anything, but I do believe that the attached image shows a 2.7mm Victoria-era spring. If I'm wrong, then surely you have an appropriate post-Victoria-era SAK with a 2.4mm spring that looks like this one. Can you show images of such a SAK?You were pretty certain that the 84mm double cut file didn’t exist. This is like that. You’ve been looking at something you didn’t know existed. And are making all sorts of incorrect statements and assumptions about it.
Well, now you got me confused. Are you claiming that I'm wrong about this particular SAK having a 2.7mm Victoria-era spring or that SAKs with such springs were produced at least until 1976 (or both)?Now I expect you to get really confused. My answers to both questions above are ‘No’.
I'll be extremely happy if you will ever start providing some sort of evidence to support your claims. Until then I tend to consider them as being quite questionable.Lol. All there in the pics. Even in the crop you posted. Clear as daylight.
Hard to be certain, IMO. I do believe that transitions involving multiple parts tend to be relatively sharp. When they changed the thickness of the main blade shank from 2.7mm to 2.4mm, for example, this also involved changing the spring and the corresponding backside tool (corkscrew or Phillips SD). I think that you will never find a pre-3 variant of the backside Phillips SD on a SAK with a 2.4mm main blade shank, because they never made such variants that would fit. When a transition involves a single fully interchangeable part, however, the older parts tend to keep getting used in overlap with the new ones.
There are actually two non-interchangeable types of variant 3 of the backside Phillips SD. The first appeared towards the end of the Victoria era and has a 2.7mm shank. I expect that it was used in some overlap with both variant 2b and variant 1b (because they were all interchangeable). The second has a 2.4mm shank and was introduced along with the corresponding main blades (this should be the only square backside Phillips SD that you will find along with these newer blades).
I happen to have a similar Grand-Prix. The only difference is that mine has the older big-gap scissors. I believe it to be from "around 1973." For me this essentially means 1972-1974. I tend to be skeptical about anyone's ability to date SAKs with an error margin of less than a year (except, maybe, a small number of very special cases). Nevertheless, I'm curious how you would date the two Victoria craftsmen in the attached image (sorry about the quality). I believe them to be from "around 1973" as well. Both have the same standard-gap scissors with a black spring. The only differences are as follows: The upper one has the can-key Phillips (variant 3) and a scraper on the cap-lifter. The lower one has a file on the Phillips (variant 1b) and no scraper on the cap-lifter.
What’s everyone’s thoughts?
I do think you’re right that it’s engraved. I have been under the assumption that it is ‘normal’. But I do not have many knives as such and in general prefer tangs stamped with dies like the INOXYD one.Thanks kamakiri. The inoxyd stamp is on the same knife so I think the blade is legit also. I also prefer stamped tangs. It does look like it was rebuilt professionally so it leads me to believe Victorinox did the work.
AFAIK, It’s all legit.
Hi Kamakiri! I think it would be great if you could share your dating of the tools, backsprings and back tools changes between 1973-1983.
A lot of small changes have been made and you need to have a large number of samples for comparison. Not all of us have as many 1970s knives as you do, I'm sure.
Well, especially for me, please, your opinion on awl dating in the period from 1973 to 1985. Many thanks!
Well my Elsener Zug or INOX Y D arrived today. I’m more than a little concerned that the Elsener Zug is engraved with a pen and not a stamp. If I had a keener eye I wouldn’t have bid on it. I’m hoping that someone can verify that Victorinox would have done this when they reconditioned the knife. The description on the auction said it was at Victorinox. Either that or the Zug retailer would have done that before the knife was sold. The INOX YD stamp looks legit as does the rest of the knife. The blades look reprofiled and reconditioned with a high polish. It’s smooth as glass open and closing, nickel silver liners and old looking scales. What’s everyone’s thoughts?
Thats a really cool knife, you dont have to be concerned about it. I dont know any victorinox knife with a lacking front tang stamp. So your knife is factory made, or the knifemaker elsener zug assembled them and engraved the knives with his name. That was common those days. Value I would estimate $50-80 $.Thanks for that info ulli. I put $102 dollars on the auction not expecting to win. I won. So I overpaid a little. I don’t feel too bad because I like it. I’m just learning about SAKs so I’ll chalk it up as a lesson learned. You have some nice examples.
Dübendorfer was a small company from Bassersdorf: "The purpose of the company is gravel and concrete deliveries, building material recycling, industrial waste disposal, dump service and transport, management of real estate, trade in miniatures. "
Had a history over 100 years, that ended in 2012.
I have a similar knife, but instead of inoxyd it has a victoria switzerland stainless stamp on the back.
Thanks for that info ulli. I put $102 dollars on the auction not expecting to win. I won. So I overpaid a little. I don’t feel too bad because I like it. I’m just learning about SAKs so I’ll chalk it up as a lesson learned. You have some nice examples.
I think you paid a fair price for a knife you like. I like it too and if I didn't have one that is similar, I would have likely paid the same.Thank you. The knife definitely has a quality feel about it.
Some folks on this forum have the luxury of being in the collecting arena so long they know how often a particular knife will come up for sale/bid.
Like you, I don't have all that time/knowledge experience so I have to go with what I like. Enjoy that one in good health. :tu: :cheers:
Ulli, what is this pattern? Officers or a bartender/waiter?
Its an officer knife, model nr 248k (k means small, 84 mm instead of 91 mm). It later becomes a name, the "gourmet".Thanks
I can also just ‘prove’ it’s not ‘73 with as little as the tweezer. Seriously, would that be enough? :dunno:
Not my knife, but I think a good example of a knife that I can say 100% is c.‘73 production.
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/51kAAOSwrjtfb8Ji/s-l1600.jpg)
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zcMAAOSwI8Vfb8Jm/s-l1600.jpg)
Obviously, 1973 was the only year they made half scissors as a cost cutting measure :dunno:
Here is my list of changes we can see on knives above, correct and add it please!I think these are pretty clear for start dates. I used to think the back driver was c.‘72, but less so recently.
1. Let's list well known 1973 changes together:
- introduction of a magnifying glass and phillips
-a new kind of metal saw / file plus a small flat screwdriver on its back
-scissors now without LNF and, accordingly, on the opposite side of the main bladePerhaps yes...the end date for main line knives and Champions...but not all.
-ruler on hook extractorI think very late ‘72 for these. But early ‘73 is certainly possible. There is the example of the 146fmaU with the short-lived early font. I have this in main line and Hoffritz variants.
- introduction of a corkscrew with 4 turnsI caution combining the start/introduction dates with the end dates.
-reduction of the thickness of the main blade from 2.7 to 2.4mm
-changing the type of spring of blades
- missing Victoria Officier's Suisse crossbow stamp
- introduction of clip point small blade
2. Scissors model 1952 with a single spring - until 1973I think the relevant starts are ‘51, c.’70
3. Transit scissors (late 1960s) with long groove, double spring, blunt ends - until 1973 or 1974?
4. Scissors with short groove, double spring, small spring attachment hole and screw, blunt ends 1973(?) - 1974(?)
5. Scissors with double thinner spring, large spring hole and screw, sharp ends 1975-1991I think later start. c.’77 late or 2nd half ‘76 at the very earliest, from what I can tell.
6. Thick liner between metal saw and wood saw - since ?From what I can tell, depends on the model. Note that later, it shows up on knives with either saw. Like in later Grands Prix and Campers.
7. Additional full liner without cutouts (see Champion on the right) - since ?Look at the “1973” auction knife. ;) Hint, hint.
8. Notch at the end of the metal saw/wood saw spring 1979?these two go together. The surprise for me was the scaler with the bump. Not sure if yours is an error or perhaps a running change that I did not spot or own.
9. Changing the shape of the wood saw end - 1979?
10. Blank main blade stamp- 1973-1974?I think a later end date.
11. Officier's Suisse crossbow stamp - since 1974 or 1975?Ditto on this start date.
Not my knife, but this is an example of another clip point that is certainly not c.’73The occurrence of clip point pen blades on SAKs with a 2.4mm blades layer is well known. Here is what JazzBass wrote about it more than eight years ago:
Notice that it doesn’t have a ‘Victoria era’ backspring like noted previously in the thread.
Note the VSSR/OS tang stamps.
I hope this is clear enough proof of what I’ve been saying.
The earliest 2.4mm blade knives seem to come in two flavors: plain back main + spear point pen blade, or "Officier Suisse" back/clip point pen. I have no idea which of these are the older of the two. Plain back 2.4mm blades are more common to see than plain back 2.7mm blades. Mid-late 70s they evolve into the common "Officier Suisse"/spear point pen that you see until the change in 2004.This is quite different from the following:
2.7mm layer parts were used later than ‘73, and as I’ve been trying to show, MIXED with 2.4mm parts.You have been circling around something here for about ten posts with quite a few images and I still don't understand what is your EXACT claim. Are you trying to say that they installed 2.4mm blades on SAKs with 2.7mm springs? If so, why can't you just express it in clear language. If you are claiming something else, I cannot even guess what it is. So, what exact mixture (or mixtures) of parts are you referring to? Also, are your claims based on SAKs in your possession or on things that you believe to be seeing in images like the ones that you posted here?
Well, now I understand the source and manner of the confusion.I doubt it.
I’m trying too hard to bridge small gaps in understanding of the chronology, where larger gaps exist.:rofl:
I don’t think explaining further is going to help right now.I tend to agree.
The tweezers alone prove that.I wonder what do the tweezers "prove" in the attached image.
I probably should have stopped right there to avoid further confusion.Not much real confusion here. I think that quite a lot has been clarified.
I doubt it.Well, that’s what you do.
Not much real confusion here. I think that quite a lot has been clarified.
You just might learn something.Why do you think that anyone can learn anything from you when you refuse to answer questions or to otherwise provide explanations that involve any concrete details? In fact, it looks like you specifically avoid concrete details like they were some kind of a taboo. Why is that? Let's try this again; a simple concrete question:
Any Hoffritz lovers ? Nice but pricey (not mine to my regret ;) )
https://www.ebay.com/itm/c-1973-VTG-Victorinox-HOFFRITZ-Earliest-CHAMPION-C-Swiss-Army-Knife-NEW-IN-BOX-/254674039171?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292
Looks like somebody actually bought it! :rofl:Ten bucks says its Minichamp. I have never seen so much love for one knife 😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂😆😆😆😆😆😆
Ten bucks says its Minichamp. I have never seen so much love for one knife 😂🤣😂🤣🤣😂😆😆😆😆😆😆
Hello guys! Happy 2021!
Here is another SAK, also claimed to be from 1973, same seller, but in this case, the featured "Modeler" has a Clip-Point, the VICTORIA stamp and five turns cork screw:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353338041506
Why would someone remove the scales from a 1970s SAK in order to verify anything? The scales would get damaged in the process, didn't they? There should be any other ways to make sure that it is -or not- a MODED SAK... Please share ;)Some folks can tell, I started a topic about this very question:
As for the c.1973 Modeler, one similar was shown by German collector a few years ago and I saved a couple of photos.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210101/b3d004e5226b82bb42a72e2e3cf87654.jpg)
Why would someone remove the scales from a 1970s SAK in order to verify anything? The scales would get damaged in the process, didn't they? There should be any other ways to make sure that it is -or not- a MODED SAK... Please share ;)
%u201874-%u201875 for sure. No way it%u2019s on the + side of %u201876. Argument for %u201876 would be weak, IMO.
Not sure of age of this one, but it seems to be similar to jnoxyd's:Yours is ‘85-‘86. Early ‘87 at the very latest.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50791379063_54bb7d5563_w.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50792244887_0d314b813c_w.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50791379053_ba7ee60245_w.jpg)
Yours is ‘85-‘86. Early ‘87 at the very latest.Thank you, I didn't know what age it was. :tu:
How so? All these dates are approximate at best. Parts fall to the bottom of bins, repairs made, etc. Esp the older knives in times when things were changing a lot (like the 73-80 time frame).
Thank you, I didn't know what age it was. :tu::cheers:
:cheers:It has a an eyelet.
I should also say, if and assuming it has no eyelet in the awl that it would likely be on the ‘85 side of that range.
It has a an eyelet.Then ‘86 it should be! :cheers:
This is exactly why argument for %u201876+ would be %u2018weak%u2019. Lots of things would have to be from the bottom of their respective bins. And that%u2019s rarely done with main line construction.
My feeling without seeing more detail is that it%u2019s about early %u201875.
It has a an eyelet.This is why I suggested the "list of changes" above. Taking into account various changes in knife construction, materials, tools, stamps and keeping in mind the "parts from the bottom of the bin" (I like this meme! ) we can determine the possible production time range of the knife.
Thank you, Kamakiri, Holder_Beholder, Jnoxyd, all you guys, for sharing your knowledge.
This doesn't answer my question. How is the argument weak? You make a lot of assertions as fact without explaining the logic behind them. Not saying you're wrong, I'd just love to know the thought process.
This is why I suggested the "list of changes" above. Taking into account various changes in knife construction, materials, tools, stamps and keeping in mind the "parts from the bottom of the bin" (I like this meme! ) we can determine the possible production time range of the knife.
My mother-in-law doctor calls this differential diagnosis.
Esp the older knives in times when things were changing a lot (like the 73-80 time frame).
Anybody have one like it? Parts-wise, that is.Yes, many of us do. It's a Fischermesser F235fmaU (like the one in the attached brochure). The scales were probably blue, once upon a time, and it looks like the fish inlay was destroyed by corrosion. It's well known that the blue scales on these SAKs were often very unstable. This particular discoloration seems to be a bit unusual, though. Quite interesting.
I’m sorry, everybody! I thought it would be clear what it is...but less so on when it is from.Do you mean your knife has no +Pat can opener (post 1971) and all other tools from Victoria era (till 1973) and was made in this time range?
Mine pictured below are all +PAT...
Does anybody have one like the other beat up one in their collection...and can anybody make a guess about when it was produced?
.
Do you mean your knife has no +Pat can opener (post 1971) and all other tools from Victoria era (till 1973) and was made in this time range?
Yes, all of my blue "Fischermessers" also have +Pat but very close 234f doesn't have it. It also has pre73 blades and corkscrew but already has ruler on fishtool. So it was made a bit later than yours.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210105/b0284c7eaed61c69ef6723bd334f94c3.jpg)
Not sure of age of this one, but it seems to be similar to jnoxyd's:(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50791379053_ba7ee60245_w.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50791379063_54bb7d5563_w.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50792244887_0d314b813c_w.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50791379053_ba7ee60245_w.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210102/b5dc9b2367f978a56f43c50b9bd97eec.jpg)
FB-
If you show what’s under the in line phillips, it will be clearly different from jnoxyd’s. It should either have a brass collar/spacer surrounding the pin/rivet...or the updated backspring where the center ‘hump’ is rlongated so it touches the pin. Either is possible.
My guess is that it’s the brass collar.
Interesting, I just noticed that collar on one of mine today and posted a question about it. I had to go back and check, the backsprings are different on the newer ones and the older Champs have no hump or collar. Just out of curiosity, is there a timeframe known for this?
To be honest, we still do not have a consensus here on the sequence and dates of changes in the 1973-1975 transit period. So I usually use 1973 as a reference year for the end of the Victoria era and the introduction of new tools such as magnifier, Phillips, 2.4mm blade, spear point blade, new file / metal saw, screwdriver on back, ruler on hook remover. So (roughly) your self-destructive knife is from 1972 (no +Pat) -1973(VOS stamp, Victoria age tools) and mine - from 1973. I will be happy to hear the arguments in favor of your, I am sure, more detailed dating ;)
The knife I posted on the other page is from an auction knife. It does not have the +PAT. All three of my knives above with the black background do.
...
Excellent example...what is your date estimate for this one and the damaged one I posted earlier? All estimates and guesses welcome. Please include reasons.
To be honest, we still do not have a consensus here on the sequence and dates of changes in the 1973-1975 transit period.True. I would like to achieve that, but it is not the top priority for me. I’d be happy with removal of gross (as in large) errors.
So I usually use 1973 as a reference year for the end of the Victoria era and the introduction of new tools such as magnifier, Phillips, 2.4mm blade, spear point blade, new file / metal saw, screwdriver on back, ruler on hook remover. So (roughly) your self-destructive knife is from 1972 (no +Pat) -1973(VOS stamp, Victoria age tools) and mine - from 1973. I will be happy to hear the arguments in favor of your, I am sure, more detailed dating ;)
P.S. Remind me please where we had discussion here about different fonts on fish hook extractor .
P.S. Remind me please where we had discussion here about different fonts on fish hook extractor .Several threads, over the years, but most importantly here:
Several threads, over the years, but most importantly here:Many thanks, MiniChamp!
Focus on that first comparison that I asked you for...There’s no can key but single-cut file 1b type (according MiniChamp)
...Is that a can key on the first non +Pat?
There’s no can key but single-cut file 1b type (according MiniChamp)Maybe that one is late ‘71. Same ‘pose’ flipped over might help.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210107/be3e76facbcdefebf776468ad52ce449.jpg)
What about knives comparison... On my 235fmU knives from 1960s, early 1970s, c.1973 (234f) and c.1973 I see only these differences ::tu: This is one of the things to understand. But first, you need to know the construction protocol is different depending on what tool is next to it. In other words, you cannot equate the opener-scaler to opener-scissor, etc. The construction protocols for liners depend on what is on both sides.
-different liners on opener line (they really changed from full 1960s variant to post73 variant but not sure about dating middle one);
-slightly different awl body shape (no idea if it can help in dating)Changes in the awl are somewhat irrelevant in the tight scope of ‘71.5 to ‘73.5 range.
-sharpened edge on bottle opener (do you have exact date when they stop it?)I don’t have an exact date, but I believe ‘74 is devoid of them. Early ‘73 knives seem to all have them. Some later ‘73 do not. I am not sure if it is just by time or by model or by batching to explain why. All three could be relevant factors.
We don’t talk about bail/key rings, scissors type/layout, fish scaler and scales color and emblem.We can expand a bit, but already we are discussing many parts and details.
What am I missing? C’mon Kamakiri, share your knowledge with us. I am sure it will be very useful and interesting.What am I not sharing? ;)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210107/e9863eb113dd36ce3f098bce44653ce2.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210107/7d14e4b2cd3e5324025c9401aff31a2e.jpg)
Hello everybody! I want to show a few pictures that are not quite relevant because I am not the owner of this knife or even this picture, to my regret.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210112/47ecec31b8276f911dbc209e78fb8d33.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210112/3dd0f39f4792dbc34757b6426d5dab39.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210112/e552cc552e3d7266815b340e96e9e115.jpg)
Nice and amazing images jnoxIn my experience, this knife should not be an imitation, and it is probably made by Victorinox, but I wonder why there is no stamp on it :think:
The shield looks very different and the corkscrew has seven turns ......... aristic license? .... Maybe :think:
That is a beauty xfile - And in incredible condition for 75 years old - I hope it's not one of those cleverly constructed fakes
Hello guys. Here is my late blue Fisherman. Have a good Thursday.
Hello guys. Here is my late blue Fisherman. Have a good Thursday.What a beauty with box! :like: :dd:
What a beauty with box! :like: :dd:
Here`s a real vintage one to go a bit away from those mid 70s knives ;) Hope you like it.Wow! This is absolutely remarkable! :like: :drool:
100 points for the one who can write the correct catalog number of it.Unfortunately, I have no real basis from which to deduce such a catalog number (unless, by some miracle, they called it 236H). Seeing a document from which this number can be deduced will be VERY interesting. (Much more interesting than just being told the number.)
Here`s a real vintage one to go a bit away from those mid 70s knives ;) Hope you like it. 100 points for the one who can write the correct catalog number of it.
Here`s a real vintage one to go a bit away from those mid 70s knives ;) Hope you like it. 100 points for the one who can write the correct catalog number of it.
Are you and Elsinox the same person? ;)
Nice photo. The SAK on the right looks interesting. Never seen a photo of an actual one, only the catalog pics.
Yes it is. And everything original, no restoration, no change of blades or scales.Wow! :like:
Yes it is. And everything original, no restoration, no change of blades or scales.Great knife, Ulli! Thanks for sharing!
That's an awesome piece.
:whistle:
Wow! :like:
I think that is considered in the category of "almost unattainable". As in beyond rare.
Here`s a real vintage one to go a bit away from those mid 70s knives ;) Hope you like it. 100 points for the one who can write the correct catalog number of it.
awesome! Is this hook suitable for lifting boots?
Of course. Its the perfect lifting boot tool :-):like:
Here`s a real vintage one to go a bit away from those mid 70s knives ;) Hope you like it. 100 points for the one who can write the correct catalog number of it.
Cool knife, but can you put a date on it? 😉
Impossible. That's when he was on a camping holiday in France.
Thanks for sharing that - I’ve seen the first knife before, but not the second. :cheers::hatsoff: Here is another early SAK with aluminum scales (this one is mine :D ):
Wonderfull knife MiniChamp!Thanks!
I think those aluminium scaled officer knives were produced for the french market.Well, I bought this knife from a French seller.
Sure. The head of the tweezers tells me that this knife was hand grinded and assembled by Mr. Elsener Senior in the 3rd week of april in the year 1898 ;-):facepalm:
A trifecta of goodies arrived today!
Left to right:
84mm Tinker
91mm Modeler -that I worry will end up in the "Crazy" thread as I had to way over pay for it.
91mm Spartan 205u or something, I'll have to look it up
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50842717506_a7a7c44354_w.jpg)
I would have built you a correct looking one for less. Looks like it’s in pretty good shape. Is the metal saw clean-able?Well dang! :facepalm: But actually, I'd want this hopefully original one. Only thing that could have made it better was its box.
A trifecta of goodies arrived today!
Left to right:
84mm Tinker
91mm Modeler -that I worry will end up in the "Crazy" thread as I had to way over pay for it.
91mm Spartan 205u or something, I'll have to look it up
Well dang! :facepalm: But actually, I'd want this hopefully original one. Only thing that could have made it better was its box.Yeah, I’d want one in a box. Anything I can build by reducing a Champion...I’d really only rather have with a box and the correct label.
I haven't tried to clean the metal saw yet.
Very nice finds FB! :like: :tu: :tu:Thank you Vicman! :cheers:
Yeah, I’d want one in a box. Anything I can build by reducing a Champion...I’d really only rather have with a box and the correct label.I figure I'll hold onto this one until a mint-in-box one comes along....not sure how long that will be.
Congrats on winning it. I’m sure there was competition from MTO viewers.
Thank you Vicman! :cheers:I figure I'll hold onto this one until a mint-in-box one comes along....not sure how long that will be.
Bidding was brutal, I feel the pain.
I was watching that auction from the sidelines, as I already have a Modeler (albeit a more recent one), but I think we all know the bittersweet feeling of digging deep for something we really want.Thank you Frailer! :cheers: I didn't have a Modeler on my side of the collection. Karl has a more modern one. I believe I showed it earlier in this thread.
Not to worry; it's only money. Congratulations!
Bumping this thread up with my newest Vintage.
Looks great FB! :like::iagree: what a beauty FB :like:
Congrats! :tu:
Bumping this thread up with my newest Vintage.That is great! Is this a 1930s SAK?
That is great! Is this a 1930s SAK?I'm sorry, I don't know the age. Perhaps someone here will know.
Bumping this thread up with my newest Vintage.
I'm sorry, I don't know the age. Perhaps someone here will know.
Nice Vintage FB! :like: :tu: :tu:Thank you Vicman! :cheers:
And they better speak up quickly or I’ll start blabbing about 1973 again! ;) :DAnd you know how much we all look forward to that! :pok: :D :rofl:
Beautiful SAK FolderBeholder! And in such a good shape. Look at the shield and cross (actually two separate inlays). They are in surprisingly good condition.Thank you Reinier! :hatsoff:
And you know how much we all look forward to that! :pok: :D :rofl::rofl: I know, right?! :D Especially the tweezer part. ;)
I think you got the answer in Hobie’s video?Yes, definitely pre 1923.
So who can analyze the age of this SAK? :climber:
So who can analyze the age of this SAK? :climber:Nice knife, Xfile! I like combination of four rivets and these stamps. Can you tell what metal are liners made from? Rivets looks steel, aren't they?
Nice knife!Thank you kamakiri. But why 1973? What's the special significance of this year? :climber:
Definitely 1973. Definitely. ;)
Nice knife, Xfile! I like combination of four rivets and these stamps. Can you tell what metal are liners made from? Rivets looks steel, aren't they?Hi jnoxyd,Its liners looks like copper, as shown in the picture. I think its rivets and reamer are made of carbon steel, which is very interesting. Can you confirm the right age?
Thank you kamakiri. But why 1973? What's the special significance of this year? :climber:
:D
I’m not allowed to say. ;)
...
The liners are brass, not copper.
I'm just wondering, is there a four rivet structure in the Victorinox of the 1920s? ???
I'm just wondering, is there a four rivet structure in the Victorinox of the 1920s? ???
N°247?
Maybe worth ~$100 USD with minor condition issues.
I did good then, having paid 1/4 of that. Is the N247 the pattern number? Thanks kamakiri.
Just picked this one up. The stamp looks like 1943-1951. Can someone tell me the pattern and value? Decent condition, I had to stone the blade tip as it looks like it was dropped and the cork screw is slightly bent. Also if you know what the engraving on the blade means. Thanks.Lovely! :like:
The stamp looks like 1943-1951. Can someone tell me the pattern and value?Cool find! :like: It's indeed a model 247 and it's probably from the 1943-1946 period (because it has the pre-1946 can opener). Here is the page with this variant from the 1942 catalog (https://www.sakwiki.com/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=112):
Also if you know what the engraving on the blade means.That's probably the name of the original retailer that sold this SAK (J. Chesi from the town Neuchatel).
I think the swiss knifemaker "Kloetzli" assembled that knife with victorinox parts. That was common those days. He just used 4 visible pins instead of 3. So he could use 4 pins with the same lenght. Everything looks original. All inox parts.
Just picked this one up. The stamp looks like 1943-1951. Can someone tell me the pattern and value? Decent condition, I had to stone the blade tip as it looks like it was dropped and the cork screw is slightly bent. Also if you know what the engraving on the blade means. Thanks.
Wow, great! Is it 84mm or 91mm in length?91. I think antique stores see saks as inexpensive and let them go for cheap.
91. I think antique stores see saks as inexpensive and let them go for cheap.
Wenger I picked up recently, tang stamps and badge suggest from 1930-45, would love to know model number if anyone has more information :tu:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210317/2627d63f091e42a69bdb16df11e74f85.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210317/854f2d7ae150af1286a8a1dcc0726b58.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210317/cf78b52c05893f4fbd8d2eaf0793a6c3.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210317/d9ca54f907b9a95d7d2e2b1b8a270dbe.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210317/06e4cce5758d3639456246c0d390ba1b.jpg)
With a cadet and FX for size
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210317/616f74bbf12f3dbe1c2299e9b1a46ecf.jpg)
That's a great find!
:cheers: :cheers:
Mod. 146k from c.1951. Still has nickel silver liners and pre 1951 tools but already has back side Phillips and new style openers....is that a broken and re-profiled small blade?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210425/24ec768d48ef6e1961dd4850dbf1c0f9.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210425/1c55797c9bd74b814b57a10edc4bc1af.jpg)
...is that a broken and re-profiled small blade?
Mod. 146k from c.1951. Still has nickel silver liners and pre 1951 tools but already has back side Phillips and new style openers.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210425/24ec768d48ef6e1961dd4850dbf1c0f9.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210425/1c55797c9bd74b814b57a10edc4bc1af.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210426/fc01f0dedb1f3fbd574adee345948b54.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210426/fb7eeb9cda9ffc3a61f7b4b457e0056b.jpg)
Thanks for the additonal pictures.Thank's for your opinion, Max stone! I've seen some early pocket knives (most of them were before the 1930s). They all have Vic stamps, but they're not in Vic product catalog. So I'm very confused. First , did Vic make some special products in the early stage? Second, it may be that other knife makers or shops use Vic parts for assembly, but have they been authorized by Vic?
I do not think this is a Victorinox knife. But it does look like it came from a factory, as the back springs and corkscrew are properly fabricated to work together.
I suspect that this is from a different factory (not Victorinox), and at some point, the main blade was replaced and someone engraved the Victorinox logo into the blade tang.
But this is only my opinion. There are experts on this forum that will probably be in a better position to comment... :salute:
Yes, I agree it is confusing and still a mystery.I don't think it's a problem with this stamp. This is another stamp from Vic in the 1920s. They all used this technology in their early days
The question I have is that it appears the blade marking is carved (engraved by hand), and not stamped as you would expect with a Victorinox mark - even the very early Victorinox marks would be stamped and not engraved.
I may be wrong about this, but if I am correct, then no part of this knife is from Victorinox. Maybe you can have a closer look at the Victorinox mark again, to see if it is stamped or engraved? :think:
Ulli / Elsinox / JNOXYD ....... we need you!!! :DAnd jazzbass/Minichamp…… :mail:
I agree with Ulli , knife body and other tools looks not Victorinox made (small blade nail nick, scissors, corkscrew). BTW I have
Victoria blade on non-Victorinox body also, blades swap was usual that times as Ulli said.
Probably Victorinox (Elsener Messer-Fabrik that days) made very close knife pattern. It’s not shown in known catalogs but looks well factory made. Victoria blade stamp, 1909-1930 according Ulli. It’s not mine to my regret.
Same knife was sold recently:
Sackmesser Victoria https://ricardo.ch/en/a/1177353610
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210703/611ed5f45a529410e7c4fe83331637dc.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210703/5e89d3c7caef79cd32611f8887eeed62.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210703/fb78f2e4af3a5931f2b8418fe74bd915.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210703/0d450809a9e60a40c98c045854d243d5.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210703/81169890b1dd181e50db1c3c268d6ca2.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210703/bd399c2b64aa252cdca5e9a083a82bfd.jpg)
Most things are already mentioned.
I would say: the mainblade is original from Victorinox, the rest not. The mainblade seems to be the only part that is inox steel. Victorinox did not produce such knives, at least I dont know of any. The knife seems to be much older that the mainblade.
It could have happened that way: mainblade got broken on the 1930s, the owner brought it to a knifemaker, who repaired the knife as good as he could and used spareparts that were available. That was very normal those days. The owner of the knife was happy, he had his loved knife back with an upgraded inox steel mainblade.
This knife is too beautiful! Is this also a blade exchange product? What is the reason for the blade swap? At that time, Vic also made knives by hand. Could it be customized according to customers' requirements?I think these two knives are not "blade swap product". We have no Elsener catalogs from 1910s-1930s period and they can made this model that time. Of course we need more these knives to be sure.
I think these two knives are not "blade swap product". We have no Elsener catalogs from 1910s-1930s period and they can made this model that time. Of course we need more these knives to be sure.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210703/3c4a95b9452630adf0e7a67decf86b6c.jpg)
The shape of your knife is different. Victorinox produced 2 lines of s-shaped knives, the Nr 1230 serie and the Nr 1240 series, 79 mm and 84 mm. The one shown from an auction is a nr 1239 or nr 1249.Thanks for sharing pics, Ulli! Never seen them, where are they from?
The shape of your knife is different. Victorinox produced 2 lines of s-shaped knives, the Nr 1230 serie and the Nr 1240 series, 79 mm and 84 mm. The one shown from an auction is a nr 1239 or nr 1249.
Those pictures are from a project I m working on. Release hopefully soon.Looking forward to it very much! :drool:
Those pictures are from a project I m working on. Release hopefully soon.Sounds great!
Wait: sold for CHF 10? :oLooks like that ;)
I really love the various Victorinox anniversary knives. I thought they started releasing them from the 1984 series but recently this 75mm Lady Victoria / Ambassador was sold on Ricardo. Do you think we can call it the first Victorinox Anniversary Knife or were there others? Has anyone seen this etching 75 Ann on other knives?It's very beautiful :climber:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211023/530e5867027e66ace5c68a7c9a6f0c72.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211023/2fd60269609d66e9e5367a4f63ee3107.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211023/0239afb42d19b974464c55f216c7366e.jpg)
I really love the various Victorinox anniversary knives. I thought they started releasing them from the 1984 series but recently this 75mm Lady Victoria / Ambassador was sold on Ricardo. Do you think we can call it the first Victorinox Anniversary Knife or were there others? Has anyone seen this etching 75 Ann on other knives?
And I got a good look at the one I passed on. Pretty sure that it was produced in between 35TAP use. Between that copy and the one Minichamp described, it has to be in the middle. Perhaps in about ‘64-‘65 range, but very briefly I’m guessing.
Thanks everybody! :cheers::tu:
I do have to get an updated lineup pic of the whole 136ka Craftsman collection…and maybe one extending to the last pliers version for the Craftsman love thread.
Very indeed! :like: :like:
Yes, you have a very early one (I think). The chart I have of Victorinox tang stamps put the Armee Swiss from the late 1890's to 1930's. and the Inoxyd in the 1930's.Thanks a lot buddy.
That is assuming this chart is right. At any rate, you got an oldie and goodie. The model is possibly the "Standard Swiss Officers" knife; known today as the "Spartan". The tool design has changed over time, but the same "type" of tools. Others with more info or correct info will chime in I'm sure.
Hey everyone, I started to collect SAK since last month and I bought today very old one, but cant identify its model and production date
Could anybody please help about it.
Nice!! :tu::iagree:
:iagree:That’s a labor of love. It’s 10 years older than me, so using it is a bit of a learning curve.
Dig the Mac Classic too! :tu:
This is my sak. It was my grandfather’s. I’ve been trying to date it. I think it must be early 1950’s from all the resources I’ve found here. It’s an as2 tang with Victoria Switzerland Stainless on the opposite side. It also has the hidden file on the screwdriver. It was a work gift when he worked in the Ford dealership. I just need to research the best way to tidy it up a bit.It looks like a late 1940s model based on the can opener design. Great knife!
This is my sak. It was my grandfather’s. I’ve been trying to date it. I think it must be early 1950’s from all the resources I’ve found here. It’s an as2 tang with Victoria Switzerland Stainless on the opposite side. It also has the hidden file on the screwdriver. It was a work gift when he worked in the Ford dealership. I just need to research the best way to tidy it up a bit.
Pulled a few recent vintage ones out of the knife roll....I have others I just can't find them. :facepalm:
Shown are a Victoria Champion, two Fisherman, an Original Outdoorsman, a Climber and Armee Suisse 84mm Tourist and a Spartan/Standard in 91mm.
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz256/SAKGuy/Vintage%20SAKs%202-18-17_zpsdyeho6xr.jpg)
I think 45-51 range however someone should be along to better date it for you. Very nice SAK, a little clean up would be nice.
angler
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
angler
Nice Soldiers - ET - Particularly like the Model 51s - for some reason!!Thanks H :tu:
.......
Regarding the knives:
let's say, from the beginning around 1890 till ca. 1970., all sizes old timers and both brand (Victorinox & Wenger) in one place, are most welcome.
As far as I know, such topic does not exist yet but if I'm wrong let somebody correct me please. And I just hope that many will approve and find themselves in this topic. So, here we go...
Gotta love those old models. As I see it, they built them with much, much... did I said much more quality at that time than now... After all, just look at the condition of these two 60+ years old knives.
That's just absolutely amazing and I'm positively stunned every single time when I find one. :)
.........
angler
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
anglerWow, left one is really rare now! Congrats!
[ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]
Does anyone carry any of their vintage knives? I for one daily my 1947 Huntsman.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230113/81d38fcfbc187e4aa66a583374ea90ba.jpg)
That’s a beauty tjf :like:I think a 30 day vintage only challenge is in order, yes!
Must admit I don’t although I’d have no problems carrying one of the mod 61 soldiers. The mod 08’s are real nail breakers but otherwise still work as well as the day they were made
Maybe a vintage SAK 30 day challenge is in order? :think:
I think a 30 day vintage only challenge is in order, yes!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Definitely late 1940s, the model is 246ka.Thanks jazzbass. I have the german page and have managed to work with it to a reasonable degree. But this breaks it down so much better for my old brain and eyes!
Old model number key for the curious
First, the main number:
1xx = Phillips, 2xx = Corkscrew.
x34 = blades, openers
x35 = blades, openers, scissors
x36 = blades, openers, scissors, saw
x37 = blades, openers, saw
x45 = blades, openers, scissors w/ LNF
x46 = blades, openers, scissors w/ LNF, saw
Then the letters after:
k = 84mm (klein). No k = 91mm
a = toothpick/tweezers
f = fish scaler
m = metal file
U = bail/keyring
There are other numbers like 248k that are just assigned and don't really follow a pattern.
That's a beauty. And thanks for sharing the story. Neat that your dad carried it.