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Tool Talk => Leatherman Tools => Topic started by: wowaboro on April 12, 2018, 08:16:15 PM

Title: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: wowaboro on April 12, 2018, 08:16:15 PM
In recent years, the line of Juices has been constantly modified and expanded and in 2017 it has reached its maximum size - seven at the same time produced models (S2, C2, CS4, XE6, SX, B2, CS3):
Leatherman 2017 Catalog (https://docviewer.yandex.ru/view/11586821/?*=EFVKj9teRn0OZgv6WTMz7Wutu4x7InVybCI6InlhLWRpc2stcHVibGljOi8vaUtCTmljd1NEVTlBcElUQUVPV2tjOFAvZlVESmpKVFh5R2pMREhXeU5STT0iLCJ0aXRsZSI6IlNwb3J0IG9nIE91dGRvb3IgMjAxNyAyMDE3IExlYXRoZXJtYW4gUHJvZHVjdCBHdWlkZS5wZGYiLCJ1aWQiOiIxMTU4NjgyMSIsInl1IjoiNzkxMzcwNzg0MTQ3MDU4ODk1MCIsIm5vaWZyYW1lIjpmYWxzZSwidHMiOjE1MjM1NTYyOTUwMjR9)
But in the LM catalog of 2018, the Juice model line has been reduced to only two models: S2 and CS4. All other Juices (C2, XE6, SX, B2, CS3) apparently will be discontinued:
Leatherman 2018 Catalog (https://docviewer.yandex.ru/view/11586821/?*=DNbVFtfwrQjn3WuJUERr5aAP8tR7InVybCI6InlhLWRpc2stcHVibGljOi8vUGdFVkkwRkhKV1RRZW80aHNUZWdnY1ltOVVZbUFsSFlHR1NMTlZBaFRrUT0iLCJ0aXRsZSI6IjIwMThfTGVhdGhlcm1hbl9CdXllcnMgR3VpZGUucGRmIiwidWlkIjoiMTE1ODY4MjEiLCJ5dSI6Ijc5MTM3MDc4NDE0NzA1ODg5NTAiLCJub2lmcmFtZSI6ZmFsc2UsInRzIjoxNTIzNTU2MzkwMjYyfQ%3D%3D)
The end of Juices is near?  ???
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: McStitchy on April 12, 2018, 08:48:53 PM
That is a bit sad but complements my experiences with it.
I've bought my XE6 at a time where I was looking for something not too big that can do it all.

And it is good enough with that. But it often feels too much like a compromise, and a bit un-finished to me. Tools have no snap, can opener and awl need rework, some tools are complicated to get out, the knife shape makes peeling and​ slicing fruits, cheese etc. needing more effort than a SAK blade...

But it has character and it feels solid and did finish all jobs I had for it (with sharpened can opener and awl).

Nowadays I carry a SAK and throw in Rebar if I think I could need pliers too.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Nix on April 12, 2018, 08:59:15 PM
CS4 and S2 are my favorite models. I expect I'll awlways have one or the other on hand.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: colt 1911 on April 12, 2018, 09:14:36 PM
Hang on to your Juice pro's
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: tosh on April 12, 2018, 10:03:16 PM
In theory the Juice line should be amazing. A fully equipped MT in the proportions not much bigger than a Swiss champ. But I find it fails completely.
The pliers are truly appalling, the bit drivers, short and useless, the file might as well do made of rubber as it flexes as much.
I do have most of the old line - tho missed out on the SX version.
The new dimpled version just leave me cold as do the half juice releases.

In my view a poor show by LM
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Nix on April 12, 2018, 11:10:09 PM
In my view a poor show by LM

The older Juices seem better than the newer versions. Not sure why.

I think the Juice fills a role. It's not a heavy-duty multitool, for sure. But, for a day out fishing, where you might want to hike in for 5-10 miles and are cutting weight, a light tool like the Juice can be great to have along. A lot of backpackers swear by the Juice--light but capable at dinner time and for minor repairs. All multitools make some sort of compromise between weight, portability, tool sets, and functionality, the Juice more so than others.

Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Lynn LeFey on April 12, 2018, 11:12:19 PM
I think the paring down of the Juice line is just an natural part of figuring out the markets for various lines.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: george1 on April 12, 2018, 11:19:52 PM
I,d take them more seriously if they had a pocket clip...
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: McStitchy on April 12, 2018, 11:29:58 PM
I think the paring down of the Juice line is just an natural part of figuring out the markets for various lines.

+1.5
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Huntsman on April 12, 2018, 11:37:21 PM
Wow - Wowbaro - That's fascinating

I agree with MTMatt's assessement of it's capabilities and deficiencies
But think they might always keep those smaller models - I have an S2 and am pretty keen on it - Which is surprising given that I am such a SAKman!!

Also intersting point from Nix on the backpackers - Juice line is really good for that group of people - But that is a small market
So I agree with Lynn   ......    As I often do  :tu:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Aloha on April 12, 2018, 11:48:48 PM
I bought several Juice models in the hopes of finding the right one for me.  Those darn flat drivers  :rant:.  Seriously the biggest issue on the tool IMO.  I tried carrying the S2 old model but for some reason I just wasn't feeling it.  Recently I've been doing some experimenting.  I put the old CS4 in my pocket for a day around the house.  I was actually pleasantly surprised what a little capable tool it is.  Not sure why now I can see this?  I am still not a fan of the flat drivers or their size but they do what they need to do.  I like the scissors a lot more than I thought I would.  The blade is also nice.   Wood saw, yes please.  Did someone saw AWL,  yep got that too. 

I'm glad I kept a few about.  Fan?  Sure, I can now see the merit of this little tool.  Its always a compromise and for the size and tool load, I'm willing to accept them.   
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Fuzzbucket on April 12, 2018, 11:59:02 PM
I quite liked the first Juice I got, contrary to what others have said, I really liked the dedicated drivers, especially the philips, which is really what sold it to me. Unfortunately it only lasted a year before over-use of the caplifter caused it to fall apart and I had to send it in... that was it for me. The pliers used to twist something horrible too if I remember correctly. And Matt's absolutely correct about the blade, while I enjoyed its aesthetics, it was absolute garbage at slicing.

Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: dks on April 13, 2018, 11:54:14 AM
The only multitool I ever carry in my pocket, that is not on a keychain, is a Juice. Not often, but it works and mine cuts well too.

It can be carried with shorts too and gives you decent sized tool that does not bulge too much in your pocket, or pull your trousers down.

No everybody is going around wearing cargo pants and a coat all the time so it has its place.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Sam Lim on April 13, 2018, 04:17:04 PM
I like the Juice series. They are like SAK to me. Easy to do modification, adding/removing "layers" as required. They should keep the size and give it a better material than what they are using as scales now. A full stainless frame/scale would be so nice.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 13, 2018, 04:39:19 PM
I got an old CS4, and want an old S2. And I often imagine having a nice KF4. That's it. I do not like the new Juice design and short blade.
No surprise the half-Juice models will be discontinued. I doubt they sold well enough to justify their existence.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Poncho65 on April 14, 2018, 11:47:45 AM
I can't say I will miss those Juice models :whistle: but it is good to know that they aren't completely gone as well :salute:

I will keep my Kf4's and Pro though :cheers: If they had only taken the serrated edge blade from the Kf4 and put in scissors :dd: There would have been so much win there IMO :like: :like:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: stugumby on April 14, 2018, 02:40:22 PM
Im ok with the juice series, a love hate relationship. My wish is for the cs4 to loose the saw and gain the serrated blade from the xe6. Too bad they dont have a platform tool that one can order to their own specs.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Exeter on April 14, 2018, 11:04:14 PM
I have a Juice XE6, and I can say that I'm pretty satisfied with it. I can see why some consider the Juice line silly and/or useless, but I think that's more about their false expectations. When I decided to get a Juice I wanted something compact but versatile, a "pocket toolbox" for urban EDC and general, small household and desk/hobby tasks, and in that role I used it with success. I was used all the tools by now, and I have no real complaints. Obviously there will be compromises in this size category and form factor, but as Nix pointed out, that's true for any MT in some way, and taken for what it is - urban EDC, light-mid duty tool - I would strongly disagree with it being a complete failure and stuff like that.

Yeah, it's a fact that the tools are not really snappy, but I can live with that, and also the XE6 and the Pro are way too bulky for pocket carry (I carry mine in my backpack/manpurse/fannypack) and I can also see how the smaller/thinner models' tool loadout might be a bit frustrating, but again, in my eyes with the right expectations and accepting reasonable compromises, it's a great little tool. I think the biggest reason for the Juice line's "fall" is the price, that's why it did not become really popular, it's a bit too pricey new, for what you're getting quality wise compared to comparable SAK's for example.

And yeah, I sharpened the awl and the can opener too, because they were ridiculously dull, but that's really nothing, a few minutes' work, so what, it's a one time only task.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: shark_za on April 15, 2018, 08:06:15 PM
I have only stumbled onto the Juice line this year and thought the same as what most people have been saying here" WTF were leatherman thinking.
But then I got some and started to see the light.
I carry and actually use a C2 quite a bit when going to places that might have wine floating around.
Its not the best wine opener but does it easier than a SAK when you support it in the right place. Moving hot braai grids around, opening the odd beer with the opener.

The drivers and pliers are great for small electrical jobs around the house and office.
I carry a KF4 in my laptop bag for this, a SAK provides openers and scissors, leave the Juice to more focused work tasks.

Simplifying the range will give it some life. But why not replace the CS4 saw with the file for the ultimate little office tool?
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: dks on April 15, 2018, 08:07:46 PM
today
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Huntsman on April 16, 2018, 02:08:35 AM
 :like:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Glockfan on April 16, 2018, 02:27:23 AM
today

Nice pic
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: ReamerPunch on April 16, 2018, 09:44:49 AM
today

Nice O.J.  :cheers:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: dks on April 16, 2018, 09:56:44 AM
I used it to adjust a derailer -  The light weight alowed me to carry it.
Title: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: jaya_man on April 16, 2018, 10:31:15 AM
I actually like the juice form factor... Haven't carried my KF4 eversince the saw backspring broke in half. Like Poncho, I wished it had scissors instead of the serrated blade.  Was planning to mod the KF4 around this idea. Just haven't gotten around to planning it...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: chrono on April 19, 2018, 12:04:15 AM
For me, I think the Juices were made to introduce Leatherman brand to broader audience, namely the females and those liking small cute-looking things. I have most of the Juices in old scale designs. The colors pop better with the old designs. I sold off many of the Juices, but keeping those early ones with the USA on the pliers.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: aikon2014 on April 22, 2018, 09:10:40 PM
In my HUMBLE opinion, it's a good thing. I rather have fewer models but maybe a little more versatile. Remove the saw on the CS4 and add a diamond file or serrated blade or something else useful.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: an0nemus on April 23, 2018, 12:16:07 PM
Having an S2 in my pocket and a Rebar in my bag, I feel like I have my personal bases in my urban environment.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: powernoodle on April 23, 2018, 12:58:58 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lsCGXFO.jpg)
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Glockfan on April 23, 2018, 01:23:11 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lsCGXFO.jpg)


Sweet pic.    :like:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Aloha on April 23, 2018, 01:53:53 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lsCGXFO.jpg)


Sweet pic.    :like:

+1
 :salute:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: SteveC on April 23, 2018, 01:56:46 PM
Nice one powernoodle !  :like: :tu:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Poncho65 on April 23, 2018, 02:08:12 PM
Nice one powernoodle !  :like: :tu:

What Steve said :like: :like:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: powernoodle on April 23, 2018, 02:16:24 PM
 :2tu:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: an0nemus on April 23, 2018, 03:35:29 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lsCGXFO.jpg)
Wow

-

Correction on my previous post:

Having an S2 in my pocket and a Rebar in my bag, I feel like I have my personal bases COVERED in my urban environment.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: ThePeacent on April 24, 2018, 12:18:34 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/lsCGXFO.jpg)

juicy group!  :like:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: TazzieRob on April 26, 2018, 05:50:58 AM
A Juice XE6 was my first Leatherman, supplied to me when I started a new job in 2006. I liked it a lot, used it nearly every day. I lost it and replaced it with the same, before the change in design. The one I lost ended up reappearing in my Sister's backpack as she was going through airport security for about the 4th time, but that's another story. I had damaged something in the pliers as they got a bit stuck near closing, and had twisted one og the flat drivers, making the whole bunch a nail breaker to get open. I didn't like the design of the scissors but they still worked for my needs.
I only replaced the XE6 with the Surge because my site banned slip joint / non locking blades for safety reasons. I should put the XE6 in my car glove box or bike tank bag for a just in case option rather than whatever drawer it is currently sitting in.
As a weekend or at home tool I now prefer my Victorinox Swisstool Spirit X, though I'm still not that much a fan of its scissors either. Victorinox make nice scissors, shame they didn't put them on this tool
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: ThePeacent on April 26, 2018, 01:20:13 PM

I only replaced the XE6 with the Surge because my site banned slip joint / non locking blades for safety reasons. I should put the XE6 in my car glove box or bike tank bag for a just in case option rather than whatever drawer it is currently sitting in.


I had a messed XE6 too, good tool  :salute:
what surprised me it's your workplace rules.  :o  Normally one sees places banning locking blades, and most laws and prohibitions are strict with locks on edged tools. A really weird circumstance that in your job  :ahhh
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: kmanct3 on April 26, 2018, 07:02:43 PM
Maybe its time to unload my Juice collection ? :whistle:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: TazzieRob on April 27, 2018, 03:35:56 AM

I only replaced the XE6 with the Surge because my site banned slip joint / non locking blades for safety reasons. I should put the XE6 in my car glove box or bike tank bag for a just in case option rather than whatever drawer it is currently sitting in.


I had a messed XE6 too, good tool  :salute:
what surprised me it's your workplace rules.  :o  Normally one sees places banning locking blades, and most laws and prohibitions are strict with locks on edged tools. A really weird circumstance that in your job  :ahhh

It was a mining / smelting / heavy industrial site. They understand that it is a tool used for a job, not a weapon
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Huntsman on May 01, 2018, 04:35:42 AM
That's the bizarre thing about bans on locking blades - From a safety perspective a locking blade is much safer than a slippy!!

Think about this - Which would you prefer to give to a child to execute a simple task? - A slip joint or a locking/fixed blade?

This actually happened to me:
My very young son (maybe he was 6 or 7) wanted to borrow a knife to do something or other
- I had a Wenger S16 in my pocket - So I lent it to him - Would not have done so if it did not have the security lock (not at that age!).
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Sam Lim on May 02, 2018, 06:35:03 PM
That's the bizarre thing about bans on locking blades - From a safety perspective a locking blade is much safer than a slippy!!

Think about this - Which would you prefer to give to a child to execute a simple task? - A slip joint or a locking/fixed blade?

This actually happened to me:
My very young son (maybe he was 6 or 7) wanted to borrow a knife to do something or other
- I had a Wenger S16 in my pocket - So I lent it to him - Would not have done so if it did not have the security lock (not at that age!).

U guys are really brave. I gave mine a suspension with all the tools removed.they only need it for legos.. I dun even trust them with a butter knife...  :facepalm:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: wowaboro on May 26, 2018, 07:52:39 PM
So, my assumptions are beginning to come true, Juice XE6 no longer available on LM site  :(
https://www.leatherman.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-Leatherman-USA-Site/default/Search-Show?q=juice&lang=default
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Tsquare on May 27, 2018, 02:11:18 AM
     Seems like they are cutting the slow movers.  I see alot of love for the ones they are keeping from those inclined to carry a juice.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Pacu on May 27, 2018, 02:24:46 AM
I remember there being so many Juice models it was hard to keep up for a while. Think my go to was a S2. I don't see them as often for sale as I once did.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: CanadianLMfan on May 27, 2018, 02:25:10 AM
So will the discontinued models go on clearance soon? I remember when the e33 series and the gardening tools went on sale, but a few years after being discontinued.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Pacu on May 27, 2018, 02:31:24 AM
So will the discontinued models go on clearance soon? I remember when the e33 series and the gardening tools went on sale, but a few years after being discontinued.

If so I'm looking hard at XE6  :drool:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Chako on May 27, 2018, 07:48:16 AM
I remember first seeing the Juice models at the local Canadian Tire. This was back in the early 2000's. What drew me to them was the colourful packaging. It stood out from the rest of Leatherman's packaging at the time. This was before I started collecting Leatherman. Mind you, Canadian Tire only had them on their sales floor for a few years at most. Come 2004, the line was replaced with the Kick, Fuse, and Blast. By the time I started collecting them, I could not find them any longer locally.

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4748small_zps1exd0egd.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4748small_zps1exd0egd.jpg.html)

Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Sam Lim on May 27, 2018, 12:25:09 PM
I remember first seeing the Juice models at the local Canadian Tire. This was back in the early 2000's. What drew me to them was the colourful packaging. It stood out from the rest of Leatherman's packaging at the time. This was before I started collecting Leatherman. Mind you, Canadian Tire only had them on their sales floor for a few years at most. Come 2004, the line was replaced with the Kick, Fuse, and Blast. By the time I started collecting them, I could not find them any longer locally.

(http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r207/Chako_photo/Chako_photo005/IMG_4748small_zps1exd0egd.jpg) (http://s145.photobucket.com/user/Chako_photo/media/Chako_photo005/IMG_4748small_zps1exd0egd.jpg.html)

Chako, those PSTs and mini tools!
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Chako on May 27, 2018, 02:16:21 PM
There are also a few PST IIs, a Flair, a Pulse, a few Rebars and Sideclips.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: temo on May 27, 2018, 02:45:28 PM
As well juice ce6 was my first LM bought in trip to arizona. That was old purple one. Now have new model. I've been thinking smaller S2 model as xe6 is a bit bulky. Though as return it has everything. At tasks I like rebar more, much more heavy duty and not much more to carry. Still I think xe6 is great camping and picnic tool. In that area I think one of the best tools there is. But for edc a bit large and for more heavy duty tasks not enough. S2 I could see as edc. Again in here price for xe6 is much more then swiss champ which is too much. As well small sak is a lot cheaper then S2.

BTW plastic carry I did win in one of the competitions from forum (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180527/512f568cde973c00fc59b0c462890fd0.jpg)

Sent from my VIE-L09 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: ironraven on May 29, 2018, 02:52:50 AM
The rise and fall of the Juice....

You have to hand squeeze a lot of lemons to get a usable amount of Juice.

I agree whole heartedly with the earlier post about how the Juice should have been amazing. It really, really should have. The should have been able to go into competition with the 91 and 93mm Vics head to head- "ours has real pliers". The CS4 should have been hunting the Huntsman, and the KF4 could have been a flagship model, a mini-Supertool.

But they never could. The screwdrivers suck, either that or they are are poorly executed yet still sharp chisels. The pliers were underwhelming, and the wire cutters even more so. It was a failure to execute well. I could have forgiven it if they had done a next generation that actually improved things, instead they put in a blade that was smaller and reduced the number of tool sets that were available. In many ways, I consider the release of the Juice line to be when something started to go odd at Leatherman.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: ddogu on May 29, 2018, 09:00:24 AM
Never been fan of this product line. Juices just seem to too fragile and unable to do any real work to me (compared to a Wave or even a Wingman/Sidekick). And design-wise they look too retro-ish  :-[ :shrug:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: chrono on May 29, 2018, 01:04:45 PM
I collect a few Juices but never carry one. They are just too pretty to carry. I see them more like multis on an office desk than inside a pocket. I like the eye-catching colors LTG had with the original designs. IMO, people like me would take the Juices more seriously if the scales were finely ribbed and non-colored. Dinged-up Juices lose their appeals fast. Also, being bitten by those small screwdrivers is not funny.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: ThePeacent on May 29, 2018, 01:07:05 PM

BTW plastic carry I did win in one of the competitions from forum (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180527/512f568cde973c00fc59b0c462890fd0.jpg)

Sent from my VIE-L09 using Tapatalk

I love these hard plastic sheaths  :like:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: sergemaster on May 29, 2018, 10:02:12 PM
Amici,
When it comes to the Juice line, it's the originals that are simply the best, compared to those later abortions that LM thrust upon us masquerading as the 'improved" Juice line. I guess they never heard of the old adage of, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", since though far from perfect, there was never really anything terribly wrong with the old design that needed such a so-called, tweaking, if you could call it that.   

Since then, I always keep an eye out for the old models and scoop them up whenever possible. Especially the versions that have scissors. I won't go near the new ones.

I have to say that out of all of the models, when I do carry a Juice which is at least one day a week, if not longer, it is usually the S2 or the SC2. I feel they compliment a mid to large size folder beautifully, especially when utilized with an "o" ring and a pocket clip. As seen here, since I'm packing an Ernie as I am today.

Cheers,
Serge
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Huntsman on May 29, 2018, 10:55:32 PM
Amici,
When it comes to the Juice line, it's the originals that are simply the best, compared to those later abortions that LM thrust upon us masquerading as the 'improved" Juice line.

Presumably the current rationalisation is happening due to a downturn in sales - And I wonder if this was caused by the new Juices ???
Or do you think the general public would not really notice that change? - Just us MT nuts notice that stuff  :think:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: BePrepared on June 03, 2018, 10:02:00 AM
LM need some form of Juice to attract new users, IMHO.  My guess on why the new models have only some scales in colour is so that the plain scale can be engraved, so the Juice can be given as a gift.

Juice has non-locking blades, so that opens it up to EDC in more countries than say a Wave.  But it is competing with SAKs for size.

They should ditch the corkscrew and bottle opener --- we've got screw tops for that now!   :drink:   Well, I know it's not universal for wine screw tops but I've broken apart corks using poor corkscrews before and I prefer a proper dedicated corkscrew tool.  All the EDC tools seems to add in a cap lifter, so that's almost mandatory on any tool .... so why do we like the KF4 so much ..?  Come to think about it, an S2 with only knife and scissors, and KF4 (with scissors, minus the serrated blade or saw, or even different models) would probably be enough.  The XE6 and Pro are pushing it in terms of size and width, but if you cannot carry locking blade then I could see a spot for these larger ones.

S2 is about best size for me, but I don't feel happy carrying a blade that large (  :-\ ) in public, so I EDC a Squirt.  If we (in UK) were allowed more liberal (sic !) carry options I'd take a Wave.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: smiller43147 on June 09, 2018, 12:48:23 AM
Cost has been a big issue for the Juices.  The design/construction has too many parts, and that adds up to cost.  Also weight.
I don't know why they don't take more of a Supertool or Wave type of design.
They still fill a niche that nothing else fills.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: temo on June 09, 2018, 12:52:34 PM
Agree with cost. In here swiss champ you can find same price as s2. Xe6 is quite much more which I see similar to swiss champ.  But again S2 is small not bulky plier based tool. Vics with pliers are alredy a bit bulky multilayer knives. So I could say S2 is slimmest plier based carry (medium excluding keychain size). And maybe biggest competition is skeletool. So it would be nice to have a bit less priced s2 style option from LM.

Sent from my VIE-L09 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: wowaboro on March 23, 2019, 04:51:10 PM
So, my assumptions are beginning to come true, Juice XE6 no longer available on LM site  :(
https://www.leatherman.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-Leatherman-USA-Site/default/Search-Show?q=juice&lang=default

And now Juice C2 (like as XE6) retired:
https://www.leatherman.com/search?q=juice&lang=default

LM Juice end is near  :(
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Huntsman on March 23, 2019, 09:04:59 PM
Hmmm Wow - Seems so
You reckon the whole line ?- Or just the pliers based models?  ???

I like the Juices - I usually carrry my S2 in my pocket at the weekend
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Poncho65 on March 24, 2019, 02:10:06 AM
The Juice has potential but seems like models like the Kf4 were discontinued way before their time  ??? The Xe6 was another model they should have kept :facepalm: I am afraid you are right though and the Juice is heading out the door :-\ The new Free series may be what pushes it on out the door :ahhh
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: AimlessWanderer on March 24, 2019, 02:36:41 AM
The Juice line was a fantastic concept, but the full potential was never realised. Leatherman simply didn't get the manufacturing standard to where they needed to be, to become a true competitor to the multifunction pocket knife.

Any hopes of Leatherman elevating the production standards of the Juice are forlorn, so maybe letting it go and introducing a new product for that niche is the best option, so long as they learn the lessons and heed the feedback of the Juice's failings. Maybe they can now (using the Free design concepts) produce something to a higher standard at a less cost prohibitive entry point.

I still have, and use, a KF4. I only use it when I'm highly unlikely to need the drivers though. When drivers might be needed, I'd rather carry a Sideclip along with a scissor laden Swiss knife. I still think that was Leatherman's best urban pocket tool.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Aloha on March 24, 2019, 02:49:51 AM
I had hoped LM would take a look at the Juice line again.  I really believe there is some great potential there.  As AW said, "The Juice line was a fantastic concept, but the full potential was never realised."

Real shame.  I just recently broke the bottle opener back spring on my Original S2.  I don't want to send in just yet.  I dont want the new S2 at all.  It works fine and I never use the bottle opener anyway.   
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: genevabuck on March 24, 2019, 03:16:17 AM
The Free series might fix and resurrect these problems.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: MTFool on March 24, 2019, 02:42:32 PM
I have  carried an old   S2 for YEARS, only  sent it back one time for a broken back spring.  It always fit perfect in my jeans watch pocket.  I really hate to see them go.
( never really like the" new" style though)       It makes me wonder what they will replace them with if I need warranty work done.    :think:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: wowaboro on May 18, 2020, 01:09:30 AM
As I see, the last remaining Granite gray Juice B2 are sell out with a discount on LM site.
All normal Juices (two handles with pliers), Juice CS3 and colored Juice B2 already retired.
R.I.P. Leatherman Juice (2001 - 2020) :(
(https://content-7.foto.my.mail.ru/mail/wowaboro/259/b-852.png) (https://content-7.foto.my.mail.ru/mail/wowaboro/259/b-852.png)
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: ElevenBlade on May 18, 2020, 01:36:49 AM
The Free series might fix and resurrect these problems.

More ominous words have never been spoken
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Poncho65 on May 18, 2020, 02:05:31 AM
RIP Juice Line :hatsoff: I loved a few of the models but never ended up with many of the Juices :think: After the "update" they appealed to me even less :facepalm: :D It is sad to see them go because they could have filled a niche the same as a SAK but with bigger pliers, the execution was there and the quality but for some reason they never took off like some of the others ??? 19 years for a tool is still a long time for production, so there is that anyways :salute:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: ElevenBlade on May 18, 2020, 02:43:31 AM
As I see, the last remaining Granite gray Juice B2 are sell out with a discount on LM site.
All normal Juices (two handles with pliers), Juice CS3 and colored Juice B2 already retired.
R.I.P. Leatherman Juice (2001 - 2020) :(
(https://content-7.foto.my.mail.ru/mail/wowaboro/259/b-852.png) (https://content-7.foto.my.mail.ru/mail/wowaboro/259/b-852.png)

I had been rooting for the Juice line since I discovered it... too little too late.  When I started looking into these, I no longer needed pliers.  Therefore, the price was too high for me to get one as a backup or pinch hitter.  I already have two MTs that barely get used. 

What I liked about them without having bought one
- size... you can carry it in your watch pocket.
- outside access to tools
- corkscrew on a pliers based tool.... with a lever arm.... Can't beat it.
- colors, shape, form factor

What I didn't like
- price
- details in design, such as a blade that's shorter than it needs to be, some wasted space

I was also rooting for these from an American cultural perspective. 
I felt like these could make EDC more mainstream and acceptable.  So many avid hikers and backpackers don't carry any knife or multitool because it doesn't fit in their bright colorful fluffy fuzzy gear loadout. 
Still - read any major magazine from that type of activity and the Leatherman company is pushing their full-size tools in articles with pictures and expert advice.  Meanwhile, the community at large ignores all of it and advocates bringing a nail clipper.  As a matter of fact, I had one of those (admittedly beefed up for a MT junkie like myself) - a Gerber utility clipper... slightly thicker than a Vic classic, with the exact same tools plus the nail clipper itself. 

The Juice series must have been designed by someone who walked into a major outdoor outfitter in the last 20 years and then was locked in the bathroom in the Leatherman headquarters as punishment for a week before he was allowed out to complete his project and never speak of it again. 

Nothing is rugged, tactical, or para-military in the main section of the stores anymore - until you go into the hunting and fishing section.  Everything is candy apple red and lemon yellow, and there's nothing wrong with that.  My sleeping bag is royal blue, my foam pad is bright purple, my pillow is bright orange, and my flashlight is radioactive green. Only my tent which is still holding up after 25 years is gray and olive drab.   

Throughout it all, I've been an unabashed multitool nut.

All Leatherman had to do was talk to my friends - the ones who actually bring a bottle of wine on a camping trip. or have to repair their solar-powered battery for their Bluetooth speakers or firepit that can recharge their phone for them... or the ones who pack ultralight and survive on granola bars because cooking requires extra equipment, and pride themselves in doing a through-hike without ever building a fire. 

It's a pity really - an entire untapped community that has no relationship with the bushcrafters or the EDCers - a tool made just for them that's gone entirely by the wayside.

They'll never come back, you know - the more industrial looking the multitool is, or the more futuristic the ultralight folder is - the less interested the backpackers and car campers will be. 

Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: theonew on May 18, 2020, 04:58:09 AM
I'm not going to get all weepy but I will miss them. I think of my XE6 as a great travel multi. Too big for a pocket but stick it in luggage and take it out at the hotel, house or cabin and you know you have most tasks covered, from opening wine to sharpening a dull kitchen knife. The KF4 is just a great tool for hiking and general wandering. Frankly I find the juice saw to be my favorite and the most efficient multi-tool saw. I remember using it to help my friend remove some woody shrubs from the front of her house and while we had lots of other tools to use, that saw was just so good for getting into narrow spots in the shrub and sawing it apart. I even like the drivers. The phillips is rock solid and has more reach than the bit kit drivers and I learned how to open the flats using the side of my fingernail and haven't had an ouchie in years. I've also put some serious stress on the pliers and wire cutters and haven't had a failure yet.

RIP, you will be missed :salute:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: ElevenBlade on May 18, 2020, 03:27:55 PM
I would also say that the Juice line suffered from the same tool-set problem that has bugged me from day1 - too many screwdrivers.

If you look for one of the smaller ones from the perspective of someone who is not technically savvy - like me - there are 4 options for screwdrivers

Once you get to the bigger ones, you have to contend with scissors and saws, and everything.  Theres no happy medium.

The Juice line would have taken off if it was marketed to backpackers and campers, and focused more on the outdoor recreation world - fewer screwdrivers, and addition of the saw or serrated blade at the mid-levels, before they added on the scissors. 

-- something around the S2 size... replace one flat driver with an awl, replace the scissors with a serrated blade or saw
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Huntsman on May 18, 2020, 03:50:54 PM
Very much agree with you EB - The Juice is a great outdoor/backpackers'/hikers'/climbers' tool.
LM really should have teamed up with one of the big outdoor equipment or clothing companies The North Face or Petzel or such like
Could have been a marriage made in heaven. .

We've had a few discussions here about it here at MT.o - However IMHO you just don't need regular full sized pliers for these activities - when weight is an important criteria
As much as I like the Signal - It is just too big and heavy and - dare I say it? A little gimmicky
  .
However a nice small tool like the Juice is perfect - eg to tighten a nut on a crampon or to sharpen up your ice axe - Or maybe an emergency repair on your tent or a bit of climbing gear   
I saw a great video (or maybe read an article) from a outdoorsey guru/expert praising the Juice for these activities

Also, if not a real SAK killer, the Juice is a real contender/competitor for a great pocket carry - Especially if you want decent pliers - I usually have my S2 in my pocket at the weekend

It's a shame they are going and it's a missed opportunity for LM
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Aloha on May 19, 2020, 03:17:32 PM
 :iagree: with you both.  When I first got my S2 I was very surprised of the size, pleasantly that is.  I wondered why it wasn't as popular as it seemed it could/should have been.  Everything mentioned is what I also found to be true of the Juice.  Such a missed opportunity.  Then LM went and shortened the blade in what I believe was a knee jerk reaction to hopefully make it passible take aboard a plane  :facepalm:. 

I carry an S2 in a pack I use for the fleamarket.  Its the original version and its a lovely tool for the most part.  I picked up a second PRO to use but being out of production I fear breaking it.  The back springs seem to be a weak area.  I'd be bummed to do any harm to it so it sits.   

Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: chacap on May 20, 2020, 12:57:27 AM
I have a Juice CS4, practical but can’t compete with a SAK. I’m taking him on vacation because he’s got a good clamp, otherwise I always have a Victorinox on me.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48023867606_7d5aa20583_c.jpg)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48023969762_55143c2f97_c.jpg)
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: RicHT on May 21, 2020, 07:27:25 PM
Out of interest, you say the Juice CS4 cannot compete with the SAK you are using, but what specially can the SAK do that the CS4 can%u2019t? Unless you require a specific tool set, id say that the CS4 can do things that any SAK can%u2019t due to the pliers.

Yes, I am a fan of the Juice. I have them all bar the SX, and I really don%u2019t think you can beat them for the size and %u2018compactness%u2019. Ive personally never had a problem with the drivers biting and I dont actually know what it means as I%u2019ve never had an issue at all.  :think:

 :cheers:
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: RicHT on May 21, 2020, 07:31:18 PM
What on earth has happened to my post with all those symbols!?!! Hahaha!
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Max Stone on May 21, 2020, 10:32:24 PM
I think someone who likes SAKs hacked your post  :D
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: The Lone Wanderer on May 22, 2020, 02:27:08 AM
I've always liked the looks of the OG Juice line, so I will try to source one to try out!
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: Thunderpants on May 22, 2020, 10:56:18 AM
Very sad to see these go, they were the only Leathermans I liked!
I only ever had the old style orange one... the big fat purple one tempted me and now I regret not having bought one.
The dimensions on these things are great. I must say however when I tried to cut an old clothes line (wire strands in thick plastic) the wire cutters failed miserably.
I'd love it if Victorinox made a mini-Spirit with a reduced tool set and approximate dimensions of the Juice... I know it won't happen, but it would be nice.
Title: Re: The rise and fall of LM Juice line?
Post by: ElevenBlade on May 23, 2020, 02:12:43 AM
Very sad to see these go, they were the only Leathermans I liked!
I only ever had the old style orange one... the big fat purple one tempted me and now I regret not having bought one.
The dimensions on these things are great. I must say however when I tried to cut an old clothes line (wire strands in thick plastic) the wire cutters failed miserably.
I'd love it if Victorinox made a mini-Spirit with a reduced tool set and approximate dimensions of the Juice... I know it won't happen, but it would be nice.

That would be interesting.  They do have the Rangergrip 74 with larger pliers and a nice blade ...  For that reason I doubt they would make a Little Spirit.  I'd be interested to see a size comparison between a Juice and a Rangergrip 74. My guess is that the Juice is more pocketable.

As an aside, I used to know someone named Little Spirit.